highaltitude.log.20120224

[00:00] <Darkside> urgh, 34 degrees outside
[00:00] <BrainDamage> celsius?
[00:00] <BrainDamage> or kelvin?
[00:00] <zyp> sounds hot
[00:00] <SpeedEvil> zyp: Make a stencil, get a PCB made, stencil on the solder paste, carefully place the parts, and put through a proper reflow profile.
[00:00] <Laurenceb_> degrees east of north
[00:00] <zyp> BrainDamage, only two scales that matters
[00:00] <Darkside> celsius
[00:01] <zyp> SpeedEvil, then it should be entirely doable
[00:01] <SpeedEvil> zyp: You can't get the chips.
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[00:01] <zyp> sure you can, as they said on the site; buy the board, desolder the chips, solder them back on
[00:01] <zyp> problem solved :D
[00:02] <SpeedEvil> Trying to do it with desoldered and reballed devices adds a whole new level of pain.
[00:02] <zyp> it's only to enhance your experience
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[00:13] <Laurenceb_> http://i.imgur.com/jtPpE.png
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[00:15] <SpeedEvil> GEtting there.
[00:16] <BrainDamage> can you put some connectors on the side of the board for a serial breakout?
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[00:16] <BrainDamage> so you can use it as standalone
[00:18] <MLow-werk> hm
[00:18] <MLow-werk> im still at work lol
[00:18] <Lunar_Lander> hi MLow-werk
[00:19] <MLow-werk> I think it would be cool to send one of those Raspberry Pi to space
[00:19] <Lunar_Lander> if they stop being vaporware
[00:19] <Laurenceb_> yes
[00:19] <SpeedEvil> Actual space?
[00:19] <Laurenceb_> im going to put SWD down the side on 0.1"
[00:19] <SpeedEvil> Or fake space.
[00:19] <BrainDamage> hilbert space
[00:19] <Randomskk> paradox space?
[00:20] <Laurenceb_> ill try and stick on some other pin headers on there
[00:20] <Dan-K2VOL> or in a 'near' space, yet quite closer to the ground than to the karman line
[00:20] <Laurenceb_> but itll be tight
[00:20] <MLow-werk> i dont pay much mind to lines in space anyways
[00:20] <MLow-werk> but of politicians put them there
[00:21] <Dan-K2VOL> well, you have to decide someplace to call the transition
[00:21] <MLow-werk> how about where you cant breath
[00:21] <Dan-K2VOL> well that would be about 14,000 ft above sea level
[00:21] <BrainDamage> then you'd already have troubles on the ground
[00:21] <BrainDamage> like on mount everest
[00:21] <BrainDamage> or, in a river
[00:21] <Lunar_Lander> xD!
[00:23] <MLow-werk> mount everest is on the ground?
[00:23] <Dan-K2VOL> no no, it's in space
[00:23] <MLow-werk> water exploration would be equaly cool to do, balloon is slightly cheaper though
[00:24] <Dan-K2VOL> our iridium sat modem arduino shield should make global autonomous boating much easier
[00:24] <MLow-werk> Could do a reverse balloon, a heavy air tank with a payload, that fills a balloon at a certain time or depth
[00:24] <Randomskk> oh jeez http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/02/23/lohan_truss_update/
[00:24] <SpeedEvil> Take several motors, fit magnet couplings to them, place inside coke-bottle. Stick other half of magnet couplings to coke bottle outside, fill with paraffin. Job done.
[00:25] <Lunar_Lander> the bathyscaphe by auguste piccard basically was a deepsea balloon
[00:25] <MLow-werk> doit man
[00:25] <Lunar_Lander> with benzine instead of helium
[00:25] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[00:26] <MLow-werk> suite of sensors, and camera with lights
[00:26] <Dan-K2VOL> it's rather obvious that media reporters fail to actually research the field of the stories they cover
[00:26] <NigeyS> and off we go to the mariana trench :)
[00:26] <MLow-werk> Hell ya NigeyS
[00:27] <MLow-werk> Less explored than space
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[00:27] <NigeyS> we know more about space than our own ocean, it's criminal!
[00:27] <Lunar_Lander> xD!
[00:27] <MLow-werk> probably 10x more expensive for a metal capsule to withstand it's pressure
[00:27] <Lunar_Lander> hey NigeyS
[00:27] <NigeyS> hey kev
[00:27] <MLow-werk> its8
[00:27] <Lunar_Lander> BBC says that James Cameron and Virgin and two more companies try to dive into the trench again
[00:27] <MLow-werk> or we could do all water proof setup, with no air pockets
[00:28] <MLow-werk> laminate all the electronics?
[00:28] <BrainDamage> in space you have "just" 1atm differential pressure
[00:28] <BrainDamage> assuming 1 atm internal pressure
[00:28] <BrainDamage> in depths you can easy get hundreds of atm
[00:28] <BrainDamage> you gain ~1 atm every 10m
[00:28] <SpeedEvil> You need to eliminate all airspaces - and then fill with a fluid.
[00:29] <Randomskk> you can do actually useful stuff in space, too
[00:29] <SpeedEvil> Or make a _really_ well sealed bubble.
[00:29] <Randomskk> like, say, satellites...
[00:29] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[00:29] <SpeedEvil> Satellites aren't hard - it's reliability in space which is hard.
[00:29] <Randomskk> not hard, I mean in space you can do satellites
[00:29] <Randomskk> compared to the ocean, where there's significantly less of use
[00:30] <MLow-werk> Radios even work through water?
[00:30] <SpeedEvil> Something with a webcam, a r-pi, and a wifi N dongle with some batteries would actually work as a satellite for a very short period.
[00:30] <NigeyS> alot less efficent
[00:30] <BrainDamage> yes, altough you use lower frequencies
[00:30] <SpeedEvil> It may crash a lot.
[00:30] <BrainDamage> because common RF get high absorption
[00:30] <SpeedEvil> Another big problem is matching of the antenna
[00:31] <Randomskk> I don't think wifi works great as downlink to sates
[00:31] <Randomskk> sats*
[00:31] <MLow-werk> RPI could do an IP webcam haha, big ol wifi antenna on it
[00:31] <Randomskk> the builtin timings mess up at that kind of path length
[00:31] <SpeedEvil> Randomskk: True - you'd need to use ad-hoc mode.
[00:31] <MLow-werk> wifi is line of sight
[00:31] <Randomskk> no, even then
[00:31] <MLow-werk> we have setups >6mi on the ground here
[00:31] <SpeedEvil> Randomskk: Or do something to the timings. In addition to the damn huge dish.
[00:31] <SpeedEvil> Randomskk: Tehre are no timings as such in ad-hoc mode, if no collisions are sensed
[00:32] <Randomskk> MLow-werk: satellites orbit at several hundred km, it's a bit of a difference
[00:32] <SpeedEvil> you can do that in the tcp/ip level
[00:32] <BrainDamage> that's geostationary
[00:32] <Randomskk> SpeedEvil: STRaND-1 is trying wifi with a gigantic dish on the ground
[00:32] <SpeedEvil> Also - doppler may add a wrinkle
[00:32] <Randomskk> they say they can't manage to solve the builtin timing issue because their broadcom chipset's firmware is unavailable
[00:32] <Randomskk> I very much doubt the wifi will connect
[00:32] <SpeedEvil> :/
[00:33] <MLow-werk> There have been wifi payload on balloons with IP webcam, works all the way up and down
[00:33] <Randomskk> however I have some other doubts about their general technical ability...
[00:33] <SpeedEvil> There is no 'connection' in ad-hoc mode.
[00:33] <MLow-werk> look at the BLT HSMM node with an IP webcam on it
[00:33] <Randomskk> MLow-werk: again the distances involved are significantly shorter. though...
[00:33] <Randomskk> I don't think I've seen a balloon with wifi that actually worked the "whole way".
[00:33] <BrainDamage> MLow-werk for a more or less permanent orbit you want 3-4x the distance
[00:33] <SpeedEvil> You can receive packets off-air from all transmitting stations - there is no timing other than tcp/ip
[00:33] <BrainDamage> by permanent, I mean > 1 week
[00:34] <SpeedEvil> Wifi all the way means you need a beeg dish on the bottom, or a small dish on the top too
[00:34] <Randomskk> SpeedEvil: I see, interesting
[00:34] <BrainDamage> also, this convo reminds me of an article I read that fpt was useless for mars communications due to builtin timeouts >_>
[00:35] <BrainDamage> ftp*
[00:35] <SpeedEvil> MLow-werk: Also - dielectric constant of water is ~80. Thsi means that a 27MHz antenna is a few centimeters.
[00:35] <MLow-werk> Hm
[00:35] <MLow-werk> all cool stuff
[00:35] <SpeedEvil> Which means you need to switch antennas if you go underwater
[00:35] <MLow-werk> Could just run a wire though, doubtfull it will drift much
[00:39] <MLow-werk> In other news, my car seems to be fine
[00:39] <MLow-werk> still
[00:40] <MLow-werk> 100mi driven after the blunder on my part
[00:42] <Darkside> Laurenceb:
[00:42] <Darkside> i've just got the SDR prototype hooked up to some signal generators
[00:42] <Darkside> it receives odd multiples
[00:42] <Darkside> that makes filtering quite a bit easier
[00:43] <MLow-werk> i need to get my lazy ass to design and build my boards
[00:43] <MLow-werk> so I can order the parts lol
[00:43] <MLow-werk> i just need the design relatively final, so i can get the BOM imported to order
[00:43] <MLow-werk> i wrok mostly doubles though so I'm usually completely brain dead when I get home
[00:46] <MLow-werk> 14$ for a 16gb sd card, class 10
[00:46] <MLow-werk> oh hey Darkside, i paid like 60 cents for my ultimate lithiums
[00:46] <Darkside> cool
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[00:48] <MLow-werk> yeah ebay
[00:48] <MLow-werk> listing was for 50 for 35$ shipped, I got 60
[00:50] <MLow-werk> i gotta say, they are lighter than I thought
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[01:57] <MLow-werk> lol got a 1tb external drive from staples, 65$
[02:06] <Pavix> Nice. I think I paid $180 roughly after taxes for my 3TB
[02:07] <Pavix> You'd be surprised how hard it is to fill that up. Even with the right google search and wget -r -m
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[02:39] Action: SpeedEvil just wants a small amount of local storage.
[02:39] <SpeedEvil> Maybe enough for a youtube mirror.
[02:40] <MLow-werk> Need it for backups
[02:41] <MLow-werk> Of the internet prons
[02:41] <MLow-werk> i mean windows installs
[02:41] <Pavix> I have it to store movies on primarily. Just buy DVDs, rip them and toss them on the network drive, then I can choose what movie I wanna watch without having to get up and thumb through dozens of DVDs and blu-rays
[02:43] <Pavix> Of course that didn't stop me from downloading every technical PDF I could get my hands on, or more porn than whats healthy, and since I know the RIAA has an agent in every IRC channel I won't talk about the 50,000 mp3's :P
[02:45] <MLow-werk> mp3?S
[02:46] <MLow-werk> GOOD LORD HES GONE LOSSY
[02:53] <MLow-werk> with 3tb you think you could rip your cd collection to FLAC or somehting else lossless without much concern of filling the drive
[02:54] <Pavix> True, but I've spent a ton of time at gun ranges in my life. My ears can no longer tell the difference
[02:56] <MLow-werk> Good point
[02:58] <MLow-werk> i dont even really listen to much music
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[03:50] <jakr_> Pavix, the RIAA has an agent in every IRC channel !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[03:50] <jakr_> joke i hope?
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[04:19] <Pavix> Yes, joke :P .....Or was it?
[04:19] <Pavix> Hmm, I seem to have lost my solder
[04:28] <jakr_> Pavix, what website do you find great technical pdf from??
[04:29] <Pavix> jakr_: -inurl:(htm|html|php) intitle:”index of” +”last modified” +”parent directory” +description +size +(pdf)
[04:29] <Pavix> toss that into google
[04:29] <Pavix> and enjoy
[04:30] <Pavix> That searches for just .pdfs, you can add search terms in quotes at the end. so if you're looking for linux docs you can add "linux" at the end
[04:32] <jakr_> wow thanks
[04:32] <jakr_> how many gb of pdf do you ahve?
[04:35] <Pavix> 34.9 GB (37,543,555,072 bytes)
[04:35] <Pavix> And I still can't find my solder
[04:37] <jakr_> Pavix, i have 41.6gb not including my kindle .mobi collection
[04:38] <Pavix> Not bad
[04:39] <jakr_> Pavix, there are massive torrent pdf collections
[04:40] <jakr_> http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4555365/All_Physics_Books_Categorized
[04:40] <jakr_> absolutly ridiculus amount of files
[04:41] <Pavix> Nice
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[04:42] <Pavix> why is it when you're searching for one thing you come across dumb stuff like the hat alienware gives you for buying one of their overpriced laptops, but you can't for the life of you find the $4 bundle of solder you need to solder the header on your BMP085
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[07:59] <Upu_2E0UPU> What was F6AGV smoking when he wrote that e-mail its great
[08:00] <eroomde> :D
[08:01] <daveake> :D
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[08:36] <fsphil> mid-morning would be about 10-ish?
[08:38] <Upu_2E0UPU> ISH
[08:38] <fsphil> emphasis on the ISH :)
[08:45] <daveake> + British Media Time
[08:46] <Upu_2E0UPU> hah
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[08:49] <number10> from somewhere west - near a bacon butty shop?
[08:49] <daveake> Outside my delivery circle
[08:49] <G0DJA> Morning all
[08:49] <number10> do we know the rough launch site?
[08:49] <number10> morning
[08:49] <daveake> notaminfo.com does
[08:49] <Upu_2E0UPU> morning number10
[08:50] <Upu_2E0UPU> yes its roughly south of Worcester
[08:50] <number10> cheers
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[08:50] <number10> I suppose I should get antenna up
[08:50] <daveake> You've got hours for that :D
[08:50] <Upu_2E0UPU> yeah lol
[08:50] <daveake> Started on mine
[08:51] <daveake> Need to go put the ground screw in
[08:51] <daveake> Good job the ground isn't frozen
[08:51] <number10> lol
[08:52] <number10> I have to go out at 12:30 so hope it goes up by 10 ish
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[09:10] <Darkside> fff launch
[09:11] <LazyLeopard> Where? When?
[09:11] <CovBalloon> my radio arrives at 10:30, might "just" miss this one, good luck
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[09:17] <LazyLeopard> Hmmm.... "Mid-morning Friday" from "in the West". ;)
[09:17] <Upu_2E0UPU> yeah a bit cryptic
[09:17] <Upu_2E0UPU> south of Worchester
[09:17] <Upu_2E0UPU> CovBalloon I'll put money you won't miss it :)
[09:18] <andrew_apex_mob> I wonder what time mid morning is :)
[09:18] <Upu_2E0UPU> 13:00
[09:18] <Upu_2E0UPU> :)
[09:19] <andrew_apex_mob> Haha - maybe :P
[09:20] <LazyLeopard> Hmmm... Should probably get the shopping done early, then, I guess...
[09:21] <andrew_apex_mob> Just checked where worchester is - Southampton isn't too bad a location to track from...
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[09:41] <daveake> Mrs Dave: "I didn't think it'd be that big"
[09:42] <daveake> And that was without it being fully extended :p
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[09:42] <fsphil> mine probably won't get any comments
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[09:45] <Upu_2E0UPU> The item (RT125587885HK) left Hong Kong for its destination on 22-Feb-2012
[09:46] <Upu_2E0UPU> so basically for 2 weeks it was milling around China
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[09:47] <andrew_apex> I'm guessing no signs of a launch yet?
[09:47] <Upu_2E0UPU> nope
[09:48] <daveake> UK balloon launches have their own mid-atlantic time zone
[09:49] <andrew_apex> A question unrelated to this launch - I know collinears have very flat radiation patterns, so if a balloon is close by, does it help to angle the collinear? (so it is perpendicular to the balloon)?
[09:50] <daveake> The null won't be a complete null; I suspect it'd be fine
[09:50] <andrew_apex> Thanks :)
[09:51] <craag_> andrew_apex: With your co-linear I don't think it would be too noticeable, with the balloon that close I don't think much gain would be needed anyway.
[09:52] <andrew_apex> Good point!
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[09:53] <eroomde> indeed some quick sums will confirm it
[09:53] <eroomde> the the colinear works fine at 300km distance, that's pretty much horizontal relative to the antenna
[09:53] <eroomde> if it's then on top of you at 30km alt, it's 10 times nearer
[09:53] <andrew_apex> Does a collinear outperform a magmoumt whip in all circumstances?
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[09:54] <eroomde> which is 100 times more signal power
[09:54] <eroomde> or 20dB
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[09:54] <eroomde> which is a big old difference and probably larger than the difference between a lob and a null on any real colinear
[09:54] <eroomde> well actually that might be an exaggeration
[09:55] <eroomde> but same order
[09:55] <daveake> I see a chase car :)
[09:55] <fsphil> good eyesight
[09:55] <daveake> lol
[09:55] <andrew_apex> Chase car?
[09:55] <daveake> It's even in the right place, which is reassuring
[09:55] <daveake> on spacenear
[09:56] <daveake> Where the NOTAM is for, so here's on site
[09:57] <andrew_apex> Ah, awesome :)
[10:03] <gonzo_> (and flattening his car batt!)
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[10:04] <daveake> grrr ... :)
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[10:07] <NickB1> my request to launch went through :)
[10:07] <NickB1> now for the last hurdle
[10:07] <NickB1> unsurance..
[10:07] <NickB1> insurance ;)
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[10:08] <daveake> Think you were right first time :p
[10:09] <Hix> to be fair - it should be called unsurance - wouldnt need any if we were sure
[10:09] <daveake> Land in the sea. Safer all round :D
[10:09] <Upu_2E0UPU> NickB1 you probably won't get insurance
[10:09] <NickB1> haha indeed
[10:09] <NickB1> its possible upu
[10:10] <Upu_2E0UPU> sure it is
[10:10] <Upu_2E0UPU> how much money have you got ?
[10:10] <NickB1> but I think its going to be pricey :)
[10:11] <NickB1> I called the authority which processes the requests
[10:11] <NickB1> they pointed me to a french insurance company
[10:11] <NickB1> send an email but nothing yet
[10:11] <NickB1> contacted about 15 insurance companies in Belgium
[10:12] <NickB1> only one fairly positive answer yet
[10:13] <NickB1> but the authority also asked if I was going to put my name on the payload
[10:14] <NickB1> he said if my name wasnt on there they wouldnt know who did the damage
[10:14] <NickB1> but I found i quite strange coming from them
[10:15] <NickB1> going to use that as a last resort
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[10:17] <cuddykid> oh oh oh :D - soldering station in Nottingham - scanned "Inbound", whatever that means
[10:18] <cuddykid> I hope they will deliver it this morning
[10:18] <gonzo_> we should put rtty trackets on your packages, I recon we are probably more organised at tracking than the couriers!
[10:19] <cuddykid> definately! haha
[10:19] <cuddykid> I've used so many different companies over the past few weeks, it's shocking how bad some of their tracking systems are
[10:21] <daveake> Payload is on the map too now
[10:22] <Upu_2E0UPU> Steve's location is interesting :)
[10:22] <Upu_2E0UPU> Frankfurt
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[10:22] <daveake> !!
[10:23] <gonzo_> makes a change from 0lat/0lon
[10:25] <cuddykid> ahh yes, forgot there was a launch today
[10:26] <gonzo_> me too, so didn't set the home stystem on remote
[10:26] <cuddykid> he's launching from very near myself and WillDuckworth! Surprised he got permission for this flight - theres a restricted airspace right to the east
[10:26] <russss> strikes me that the tracker should probably consider 0,0 an invalid location for a receiver. Considering it's in the sea, and all.
[10:27] <number10> that was his last location using dx tuner
[10:28] <cuddykid> does he have permission to launch? there's no notam showing up
[10:29] <daveake> Yes he does, and there is
[10:30] <cuddykid> Steve's an expert at this so I'm sure it's all covered
[10:30] <cuddykid> http://i.imgur.com/a4iVs.png
[10:31] <cuddykid> and that shows the restricted airspace which makes my launches a nightmare
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[10:34] <Upu_2E0UPU> Who's 2E0DBR ?
[10:34] <Upu_2E0UPU> going to be very useful at landing
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[10:36] Nick change: number10 -> number10_2E0DBR
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[10:36] <Upu_2E0UPU> ah :)
[10:37] <number10_2E0DBR> got to go out at 12:30 though Upu_2E0UPU
[10:37] <Upu_2E0UPU> just leave AFC on :)
[10:37] <Upu_2E0UPU> I have faith in fsphil's code
[10:37] <fsphil> lol
[10:37] <fsphil> oh sorry, did I type that in
[10:38] <number10_2E0DBR> i'll tune it to the center, as long as it doesnt drift more than 1kh after I leave should be ok
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[10:39] <number10_2E0DBR> 1kHz
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[10:41] <cuddykid> _Hix: have you got your soldering station yet?
[10:43] <_Hix> :| Your parcel is on the vehicle for delivery
[10:43] <_Hix> The estimated time of arrival is between 15:08 - 16:08
[10:43] <cuddykid> oh
[10:44] <cuddykid> my last update was last night at 23:25 saying "inbound" at nottingham depot - I guess it should be delivered today
[10:44] Nick change: LazyLeopard -> LazyL-M0LEP
[10:45] <cuddykid> but I'll be out - so I guess I'll have to pick up from their depot at somepoint
[10:46] <cuddykid> _Hix: they're rather precise with the :08 lol
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[10:48] <_Hix> "inbound" sounds like a missile - yeah :08 is very precise, shame their actual delivery didn't meet the door yesterd\a
[10:48] <_Hix> day...
[10:49] <_Hix> Leave them a not saying leave it in a stated place - like i didnt do...
[10:49] <andrew_apex> What's the horizon? (the circle round the payload on spacenear.us?
[10:50] <eroomde> the horizon
[10:50] <andrew_apex> of course - it's so low that it's tiny :)
[10:51] <andrew_apex> so I guess that's where you could expect to receive it (ignoring refraction)?
[10:53] <_Hix> subject to time I may be able to help recover - It's scheduled to land very near me. But I dont leave coventry for another hour and then have to drive. Should be near Epping by 13:30 ish
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[10:57] <daveake> I see the Steve's not far fro the wonderfully named "Wyre Piddle"
[10:57] Nick change: junderwood -> junderwood_M0JCU
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[10:58] <G0DJA> Sorry about that - PC crashed whilst I was doing some work downstairs!
[10:59] <G0DJA> Any news of possible launch time and a locator please?
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[10:59] <LazyL-M0LEP> It's showing on the tracker
[10:59] <daveake> It's on the map now. Dunno about a launch time but maybe not far away
[11:00] <G0DJA> Am listening 434.074MHz with FL-Digi all set up and monitoring 100Hz high of dial setting all ready to go
[11:00] <G0DJA> 100 = 1000Hz of course...
[11:00] <LazyL-M0LEP> IO82wc or therabouts
[11:03] <G0DJA> Can someone remind me of the tracker URL please? I can find the prediction but didn't save the tracker URL...
[11:03] <G0DJA> Thanks for the locator
[11:03] <fsphil> http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[11:06] <G0DJA> Thanks for the URL but something strange - Lots of blue lines following chase car but map wont load after initial page...
[11:06] <andrew_apex> just zoom out - I had that too
[11:06] <daveake> zoom out
[11:07] <daveake> We always try to draw patterns on the map :p
[11:07] <Upu_2E0UPU> impressive turn out for a week day
[11:08] <G0DJA> That's cured it - Thanks
[11:09] <_Hix> Upu - it's friday, doesn't count
[11:09] <Upu_2E0UPU> aye true all I can hear today is people deciding if its pizza or subway for lunch
[11:09] <G0DJA> It might need a bit of height before I can hear it from here - lots of hills in that direction
[11:10] <fsphil> I can hear someone complaining
[11:10] <G0DJA> Will have to go and do a bit of work but will leave RX monitoring
[11:10] <Upu_2E0UPU> G0DJA you're about same as me and there is a dead spot around there
[11:11] <kokey> someone launched a spaghetti monster
[11:12] <Upu_2E0UPU> G0DJA http://i.imgur.com/KTkx9.jpg
[11:12] <Upu_2E0UPU> spot the hills
[11:13] <kokey> drawn by a 2 year old
[11:13] <Upu_2E0UPU> that is GPS wobble :)
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[11:14] <Upu_2E0UPU> looks like they are in a hangar
[11:15] <Upu_2E0UPU> CovBalloon you set up as I think you're closest
[11:15] <kokey> looks like it's using mobile towers in london
[11:22] <andrew_apex> oh yeah - just switched to satellite view
[11:22] <andrew_apex> definetly in a hanger :)
[11:23] <_Hix> upu - splitting hairs, but I'm nearer than Richard at the moment - I'm on the south side of Coventry :)
[11:23] <Upu_2E0UPU> you're not on the map :)
[11:23] <_Hix> But I can't use my AR8000 yet, and I've got a rubber duck fitted at the moment :(
[11:23] <_Hix> Dunno how to do that
[11:23] <Upu_2E0UPU> you'll be able to pick it up on that
[11:24] <Upu_2E0UPU> have you got dl-fldigi ?
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[11:25] <Hix> not here - work pc and locked
[11:25] <Upu_2E0UPU> ok
[11:26] <Upu_2E0UPU> never mind then :)
[11:26] <kokey> mr potato head, by picasso
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[11:26] <Hix> but - I'm going to try and get it to work from a usb stick over the weekend - the chat software is stick mounted
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[11:28] <F6AGV> Hello 73 Alan CALAIS
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[11:33] Nick change: Colin_ -> Colin-G8TMV
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[11:34] <number10_2E0DBR> hi Alan
[11:35] <eroomde> not quite effusive anough a hello, number10_2E0DBR
[11:35] <daveake> Balloon out of hangar :)
[11:35] <andrew_apex> ooh yeah :D
[11:36] <andrew_apex> it's almost not mid-morning any more :)
[11:36] <daveake> You're thinking GMT. This is a mistake :D
[11:36] <kokey> looks like they had to walk around that plane
[11:37] <andrew_apex> :D
[11:37] <Colin-G8TMV> looks like it's up
[11:37] <kokey> yes
[11:37] <andrew_apex> yup
[11:37] <number10_2E0DBR> well english people are known for being reserved eroomde
[11:38] <number10_2E0DBR> untill after about 2100 when they have had too much plonk
[11:39] <number10_2E0DBR> baloon up
[11:40] <number10_2E0DBR> +l
[11:40] <Colin-G8TMV> very high rate too
[11:40] <andrew_apex> yeah
[11:40] <Hix> am I correct in thinking I should be monitoring 434.0741 MHz
[11:40] <kokey> is that feet or meters?
[11:41] <Colin-G8TMV> m
[11:41] <andrew_apex> meters on the tracker
[11:41] <kokey> good
[11:41] <andrew_apex> USB, right?
[11:41] <kokey> and fast, wow
[11:41] <daveake> data coming in now
[11:41] <daveake> This ft790r is a lot less noisy than the AR8000
[11:42] <daveake> Shift about 450
[11:42] <andrew_apex> is the payload on USB?
[11:42] <daveake> yes
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[11:42] <junderwood_M0JCU> USB. Spot on the correct frequency. Dial freq is 434.074
[11:43] <G0DJA> Missed a few data lines as was on phone to Boss
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[11:43] <G0DJA> RXing OK but some errors creeping in
[11:44] <G0DJA> 1st good decode - Yea!
[11:44] <daveake> woo!
[11:46] <CovBalloon> not hearing anything at the moment
[11:46] <andrew_apex> Yet to get anything here (2E0KRB in southampton)
[11:46] <daveake> Not got a complete sentence yet. Keeps fading
[11:46] Action: Colin-G8TMV is at work so can't track
[11:46] <andrew_apex> where are you CovBalloon?
[11:46] <CovBalloon> north coventry
[11:47] <Upu_2E0UPU> well I can see it
[11:47] <Upu_2E0UPU> here wr go
[11:48] <CovBalloon> aha, very faint but its getting stronger
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[11:48] <daveake> wee got one
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[11:48] <chris_99> whats the altitude at the mo'?
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[11:48] <daveake> 4270
[11:48] <andrew_apex> 4401
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[11:49] <Upu_2E0UPU> 434073.600 440 shift
[11:49] <Upu_2E0UPU> got one
[11:49] <andrew_apex> just seeing faint lines on the waterfall now
[11:49] <G0DJA> CovBalloon What antenna? Might be a bit high for a vertical at that range
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[11:50] <G0DJA> Drifting HF now
[11:50] Nick change: Colin_ -> Colin-G8TMV
[11:51] <Upu_2E0UPU> Hi Colin
[11:51] <Colin-G8TMV> Hi
[11:51] <G0DJA> Getting to be a lot louder here now
[11:52] <daveake> My house is in the way at the mo
[11:52] <number10_2E0DBR> bad planning again daveake
[11:52] <daveake> Yep
[11:52] <number10_2E0DBR> ;)
[11:53] <Colin-G8TMV> daveake: you need a taller mast
[11:53] <Upu_2E0UPU> number10_2E0DBR when it lands grab it and drive it to France
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[11:53] <Upu_2E0UPU> that'll confuse them
[11:53] <number10_2E0DBR> lol Upu_2E0UPU
[11:53] <daveake> Well I didn't fully extend this one :D
[11:53] <number10_2E0DBR> I am sure there is a challange to land in my garden
[11:54] <number10_2E0DBR> enge
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[11:54] <number10_2E0DBR> have to go out in 1/2 hour :(
[11:54] <Upu_2E0UPU> AFC
[11:56] <G0DJA> The lat/long and height I get but what's the minus number sent every other transmission - near the end
[11:57] <LazyL-M0LEP> Getting a hideous tick on the signal here....
[11:57] <G0DJA> Seems to be a lot of sidebands M0LEP
[11:59] <daveake> G0DJA Near the end that's the predicted landing position should the balloon burst at that time
[11:59] <andrew_apex> yay, first packet decoded ok!
[11:59] <LazyL-M0LEP> No, it's some local QRM I think....
[11:59] <CovBalloon> how do you do fine tuning on the ar8000
[11:59] <G0DJA> Have had to turn RX vol down to avoid overloading input
[12:00] <daveake> FUNC+#2 (STEP) then set the step
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[12:00] <number10_2E0DBR> CovBalloon: function - step
[12:00] <G0DJA> daveake Thanks for the info
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[12:01] <G0DJA> Ah yes, just noticed the "52" figure before it - Doh!
[12:02] <andrew_apex> I've stopped decoding... :/
[12:02] <andrew_apex> just needed retuning
[12:04] <G0DJA> Drift seems to have stabalised for a while
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[12:07] <Hix> what MHZ are you picking it up on now Cov?
[12:08] <Upu_2E0UPU> F5APQ got it too
[12:08] <CovBalloon> still searching, nothing right now
[12:09] <andrew_apex> I;ve got it on 434.074.16
[12:09] <Hix> faint blips on 434.0736
[12:09] <G0DJA> 434.074.47 +1000Hz here
[12:10] <F6AGV_> fF6AGV-F5APQ receive well
[12:10] <Hix> right - home time - see what i can get from the car
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[12:10] <andrew_apex> shift is down a little here
[12:10] <junderwood_M0JCU> Ha. I can see it!
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[12:11] <andrew_apex> I'm at 440 shift
[12:11] <Futurity> Afternoon all. Unfortunately I'm at work so can't track today :(
[12:12] <G0DJA> S/N up to 14dB now - still getting occasional fail to decode on fading though
[12:13] <daveake> Yeah, seems to be quite a bit of fading on this one
[12:13] <chris_99> whys it fade? just because its spinning?
[12:14] <daveake> swinging
[12:14] <G0DJA> Could be atmospheric conditions - inversion layer below 12000m I wonder?
[12:14] <fsphil> ooh it's up
[12:15] <G0DJA> With vertical spin shouldn't be too much of a problem I would have thought...
[12:15] <daveake> fsphil you're so quick :D
[12:15] <daveake> I got between +9 and -2dB s/n in one sentence
[12:15] <fsphil> totally :)
[12:16] <G0DJA> Tell it not to drift next few mins as I need to get a sandwich :-)
[12:16] <andrew_apex> I'm currently on 435 shift and decoding
[12:16] <number10_2E0DBR> q: is the frequency drift likely to decrease as it descends?
[12:17] <number10_2E0DBR> what I mean is will it drift downwards?
[12:17] <fsphil> I see it on the waterfall now
[12:17] <fsphil> must be good conditions
[12:17] <fsphil> number10_2E0DBR, I think so
[12:18] <andrew_apex> it's got a lot stronger
[12:18] <number10_2E0DBR> cos I am leaving your code in charge soon fsphil
[12:18] <Upu_2E0UPU> its a very strong signal this one
[12:18] <number10_2E0DBR> so I guess I should tune it so that center is above 1500Hz
[12:19] <fsphil> there's a bug in the last 'official' version, it'll stop adjusting
[12:19] <Upu_2E0UPU> car needs to get a shift on
[12:19] <number10_2E0DBR> not too sure what version I am running
[12:19] <fsphil> the beta one I did for the ssdv stuff should be fine
[12:19] Action: LazyL-M0LEP swaps to the Yagi...
[12:20] <LazyL-M0LEP> ...and is now getting clean decodes despite the clickyness
[12:20] <LazyL-M0LEP> Pretty sure it's local QRM from the builder's lorry unloading stuff four doors down...
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[12:21] <fsphil> still very weak here
[12:22] <G0DJA> 2E0BDR I find best decodes if I have the mark freq at +1000 so the space is at about 1400 to 1500
[12:22] <Upu_2E0UPU> you got it fsphil ?
[12:23] <fsphil> very faintly Upu_2E0UPU
[12:23] <Upu_2E0UPU> ususual for you :)
[12:23] <fsphil> no text yet, but lines on the waterfall
[12:23] <Upu_2E0UPU> I'll update predictions with 12:00
[12:23] <number10_2E0DBR> AFK
[12:24] <LazyL-M0LEP> Heh. Lorry's just stowed its hoist, and suddenly there's no clickyness! ;)
[12:24] <fsphil> ah, starting to decode numbers
[12:25] <G0DJA> Where are you fsphil - can't find a mast with your name on it in tracker
[12:25] <Upu_2E0UPU> you'll have to zoom out alot G0DJA :)
[12:25] <fsphil> G0DJA, the one in N.Ireland
[12:25] Nick change: fsphil -> fsphil_2I0VIM
[12:25] <G0DJA> AH! that'll be why then. LOL
[12:26] <fsphil_2I0VIM> $$$$$XIPg,4 2,12:2]1952.19Bm0,96Z0,161l0?00?!9=z.99377h,050WE
[12:26] <Upu_2E0UPU> better than you normally get :)
[12:26] <daveake> :)
[12:26] <fsphil_2I0VIM> the next one spelled XABEN right too
[12:27] <fsphil_2I0VIM> so close, bad checksum
[12:27] <andrew_apex> its gone again for me
[12:28] <fsphil_2I0VIM> still good here, just the odd bad character
[12:28] <G0DJA> fsphil_2I0VIM knowing the callsign helps - HI
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[12:29] <fsphil_2I0VIM> $$$$$$XABEN,411,12:28:59,52.10597,-0.884=5,16973,0.0,0.00,4;5;FB0;0.9*5791
[12:30] <fsphil_2I0VIM> keeps coming up as $$$PABEN
[12:30] <Laurenceb> ASSPEN
[12:30] <Upu_2E0UPU> yeah thats what i got at range too
[12:31] <fsphil_2I0VIM> this is why we need fec :)
[12:31] <Upu_2E0UPU> fec ?
[12:31] <Upu_2E0UPU> preamp ?
[12:32] <fsphil_2I0VIM> forward error correction
[12:32] <Upu_2E0UPU> oh yeah
[12:32] <G0DJA> Forward Error Correction
[12:32] <fsphil_2I0VIM> also a preamp :)
[12:32] <G0DJA> AMTOR or PACTOR have it
[12:32] <Upu_2E0UPU> if its good enough for Voyager 2..
[12:33] <fsphil_2I0VIM> signal a bit weaker here now
[12:33] <fsphil_2I0VIM> getting more gibberish
[12:33] <G0DJA> They had dishes bigger than Jodrell Bank though!
[12:33] Nick change: golddragon24 -> KD0MKF
[12:33] Nick change: KD0MKF -> golddragon24
[12:33] <Colin-G8TMV> what happened to the prediction on the tracker?
[12:33] <G0DJA> I was wondering that as well...
[12:33] <WillDuckworth> didn't realise the launch was from literally down the road from me, typical
[12:34] <Upu_2E0UPU> I'm just updating the predictions
[12:34] <Upu_2E0UPU> should come back
[12:34] <Upu_2E0UPU> still on mine
[12:36] <Colin-G8TMV> did a reload of the page and it came back
[12:36] <daveake> 9 receivers on a Friday - not bad!
[12:36] <Upu_2E0UPU> the GFS stuff is renewed at 12:00 so I updated
[12:38] <Upu_2E0UPU> all updated now
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[12:39] <Upu_2E0UPU> been very stable from here not retuned yet
[12:43] <fsphil_2I0VIM> annoying qrm here now
[12:43] <Laurenceb> is this a howyee?
[12:44] <fsphil_2I0VIM> although a nice signal
[12:44] <Upu_2E0UPU> No idea but I suspect if I had GoPros on it I'd use something more predicatable like totex
[12:46] <fsphil_2I0VIM> signal drifting a bit
[12:46] <andrew_apex> what shift are people using?
[12:46] <G0DJA> 425 here
[12:47] <Upu_2E0UPU> 440
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[12:47] <daveake> 430
[12:48] <andrew_apex> I'm currently on 430...
[12:48] <fsphil_2I0VIM> always with the one character wrong
[12:48] <G0DJA> That's annoying isn't it Phil...
[12:49] <fsphil_2I0VIM> this looks correct though: $$$$$$XABEN,470,12:48:42,52.08970,-0.69525,22970,0.0,0.00,56;52.08280;0.20003*853B
[12:49] <Upu_2E0UPU> $$$$$$XABEN,470,12:48:42,52.08970,-0.69525,22970,0.0,0.00,56;52.08280;0.20003*853B
[12:49] <G0DJA> $$$$$$XABEN,470,12:48:42,52.08970,-0.69525,22970,0.0,0.00,6;52.08280;0.20003*853B
[12:49] <fsphil_2I0VIM> ah ha
[12:50] <fsphil_2I0VIM> that 5 shouldn't be there?
[12:52] <G0DJA> Mine may have been a failed decode...
[12:52] <fsphil_2I0VIM> suspecting I'm seeing a bug
[12:53] <daveake> 11 receivers
[12:53] <Upu_2E0UPU> fading
[12:53] <Colin-G8TMV> How accurate is the Altitude data? it's GPS derived right?
[12:53] <Upu_2E0UPU> very accurate
[12:53] <G0DJA> Any idea how high it's going today?
[12:53] <daveake> Yes
[12:53] <Upu_2E0UPU> ~30km
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[12:54] <Colin-G8TMV> Upu_2E0UPU: what does that mean? +/- 10m +/-100m?
[12:54] <Upu_2E0UPU> err GPS accuracy not entirely sure but I'd say +/- 5m
[12:54] <daveake> Depends on how many sats it sees and where those are
[12:54] <Upu_2E0UPU> probably better
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[12:54] <junderwood_M0JCU> Vertical is worse than horizontal. Say 5m horizontal and 15m vertical
[12:55] <Colin-G8TMV> Err.. are you sure? I though the altitude data was approx an order of magnitude worse tha the position data
[12:55] <junderwood_M0JCU> Didn't think it was that much worse
[12:55] <G0DJA> Altitude always seems poor on the GPS units I've ever had
[12:55] <junderwood_M0JCU> certainly not my experience, anyway
[12:56] <daveake> http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/gps_elevation.html says 10-20m
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[12:56] <junderwood_M0JCU> altitude is always worse then horizontal position due to constellation geometry
[12:57] <G0DJA> Dont know why this one failed $$$$$$XABEN,492,12:56:03,52.05809,-0.60842l25344,0.0,0.00,49;52.04547;0.30323*FB07
[12:57] <andrew_apex> -0.60842l25344
[12:57] <andrew_apex> should be a ,
[12:57] <junderwood_M0JCU> $$$$$$XABEN,492,12:56:03,52.05809,-0.60842,25344,0.0,0.00,49;52.04547;0.30323*FB07
[12:57] <G0DJA> AH - yes I see it now
[12:57] <Upu_2E0UPU> missing a comman
[12:57] <Upu_2E0UPU> comma
[12:57] <fsphil_2I0VIM> excellent signal here -- I've got a bug preventing uploading
[12:57] <Upu_2E0UPU> you're using a new version fsphil_2I0VIM ? can you revert to old ?
[12:58] <Upu_2E0UPU> got the payload selected ? :)
[12:58] <G0DJA> comma became some strange chracter
[12:58] <fsphil_2I0VIM> yea :p
[12:58] <fsphil_2I0VIM> might see if I can build it quickly
[12:58] <AndChat-> dial freq?
[12:58] <fsphil_2I0VIM> the old version
[12:58] <Upu_2E0UPU> 434.073.600
[12:58] <AndChat-> Ta
[12:58] <Upu_2E0UPU> 430ish shift
[12:59] <daveake> Does anyone know if there's an adjustment on the FT790R to fix the fact that the this one reads approx 8kHz too gigh on the display?
[12:59] <AndChat-> Oo I hear it
[13:00] <fsphil_2I0VIM> git experts: how do I revert to a particular commit?
[13:00] <daveake> This payload likes the M1
[13:01] <cuddykid> _Hix: they left my soldering station outside my door :D
[13:01] <cuddykid> are the temp/pressure sensor(s) broken?
[13:01] <Upu_2E0UPU> git reset --hard commitid
[13:01] <Upu_2E0UPU> apparently
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[13:02] <G0DJA> Did you waft here on a tropical breeze? Nah, Luton Airport
[13:02] <Upu_2E0UPU> type git log to get commitid
[13:02] <Upu_2E0UPU> message relayed from someone who understands git
[13:02] <andrew_apex> I'm heading out - I'll turn my radio off as I'm not decoding atm, and there are plenty of you here :)
[13:02] <fsphil_2I0VIM> I reset --hard
[13:02] <fsphil_2I0VIM> worked, thanks
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[13:06] <fsphil_2I0VIM> bah, not building
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[13:07] <G0DJA> What are the little puffs of cloud on the tracking line? Potential burst poit?
[13:07] <daveake> yes
[13:07] <G0DJA> point - even
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[13:09] <NigeyS> link for fldigi ?
[13:09] <G0DJA> Wow - just figgered out how to get the frequency to display in FL-Digi - LOL
[13:09] <Upu_2E0UPU> lol
[13:09] <daveake> burst?
[13:10] <daveake> yep
[13:10] <Upu_2E0UPU> yup
[13:10] <G0DJA> Seems to be on its way down now
[13:10] <daveake> thought I could hear it
[13:10] <daveake> Prediction says near the sea :p
[13:10] <fsphil_2I0VIM> nuts
[13:11] <daveake> Er ...
[13:11] <fsphil_2I0VIM> ah well, it was a good signal :)
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[13:11] <daveake> Might land on the head of a wrinkly in Frinton-on-Sea
[13:11] <G0DJA> Colchester-by-Sea :-)
[13:11] <daveake> It's bouncing around a bit :)
[13:11] <cuddykid> 300m off my alt :P
[13:11] <junderwood_M0JCU> I wouldn't bet on it clearing the M11
[13:12] <cuddykid> right - signing off as I have a train to catch - will be keeping up on the iPhone :P
[13:12] <cuddykid> bbl
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[13:12] <zsendre> coming down at 33m/s, is this normal?
[13:12] <Colin-G8TMV> yes, not much air for the chute
[13:12] <G0DJA> 2E0DBR could pop out and pick it up :-)
[13:12] <Colin-G8TMV> it will slow down as the air gets thicker
[13:13] <Upu_2E0UPU> whatever speed it is at 10km , half it for landing speed
[13:14] <Upu_2E0UPU> Damn Cuddy left
[13:14] <Upu_2E0UPU> Check this out I accidentally ordered some 0201 inductors
[13:14] <Upu_2E0UPU> http://i.imgur.com/EwMhb.jpg
[13:14] <Upu_2E0UPU> 0603 for size comparison
[13:15] <NigeyS> any1 know my gps co-ords? lol
[13:16] <G0DJA> Upu_2E0UPU - Whoops!
[13:18] <NigeyS> $$$xAN,5!4%|8P>Xu080w;
[13:18] <NigeyS> boo :( lost it now
[13:19] <G0DJA> more errors creeping in here
[13:20] <Upu_2E0UPU> yep same here
[13:20] <NigeyS> i could go outside with the yagi but itd have landed by the time i get out there
[13:21] <G0DJA> Audibly still good signal though
[13:21] <Upu_2E0UPU> he's not going to have far to drive home tonight
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[13:22] <daveake> I've just switched to the Yagi from my office window and am getting a better signal than the W300
[13:23] <_Hix-Android> Where is predicted land now.
[13:23] <G0DJA> Starting to drift LF again now
[13:23] <daveake> NE of Braintree
[13:24] <_Hix-Android> Is Chase car on way? Live In upping forest so could retrieve
[13:24] <daveake> It is moving now
[13:25] <_Hix-Android> 07976913066 if they need a hand
[13:27] <Upu_2E0UPU> its a BBC launch so they will probably want to film the recovery
[13:28] <G0DJA> 9km high and falling fast (appologies to Simon and Garfunkle...)
[13:28] <daveake> The Sound Of RTTY
[13:28] <Upu_2E0UPU> on track for 4-5m/s landing
[13:29] <daveake> yep
[13:29] <G0DJA> It's just crossed the Grenwich meridian
[13:30] <kokey> not bad, a paratrooper can handle a landing like that easily
[13:31] <Colin-G8TMV> What is the BBC interest?
[13:31] <G0DJA> Crimewatch?
[13:31] <daveake> lol
[13:32] <Colin-G8TMV> only if _Hix-Android and I nip out and grab it first
[13:32] <G0DJA> Have you seen this balloon?
[13:32] <Colin-G8TMV> no
[13:32] <G0DJA> Call crimestoppers on...
[13:33] <_Hix-Android> I'm just past j24 m25 now
[13:33] <kokey> who has done the work on the path prediction?
[13:33] <Upu_2E0UPU> its generated automatically using latest weather data
[13:34] <daveake> that plus the reported desecent rate (and current posn of course)?
[13:34] <G0DJA> Think I need to put the tracker on a different PC in future - resizing map seemed to glitch FL-Digi decode then
[13:35] <kokey> who has written the code for it? or was it based on in the input of a number of people?
[13:35] <Upu_2E0UPU> a number of people, natrium42, CUSF team etc
[13:35] <eroomde> from the 'about' page on the predictor
[13:36] <eroomde> "Written by Jon Sowman and Adam Greig for CUSF. Credit also to Rich Wareham for work on the predictor. Some parts of code taken from old landing prediction software, credit to Rob Anderson, Fergus Noble and Ed Moore. "
[13:36] <_Hix-Android> 25
[13:36] <eroomde> kokey: it's basically evolved from the old CUSF command line prediction app
[13:36] <fsphil_2I0VIM> isn't still a command line tool?
[13:37] <Upu_2E0UPU> I'll text Steve when its down
[13:37] <kokey> nice one, very cool
[13:37] <fsphil_2I0VIM> I'd like to include it with habhound at some point
[13:38] <_Hix-Android> How high now
[13:38] <Colin-G8TMV> 5000m just crossed the M11
[13:39] <Upu_2E0UPU> number10 might get this all the way to the ground
[13:39] <_Hix-Android> North or south of stansted
[13:39] <Colin-G8TMV> N of Braintree
[13:39] <fsphil_2I0VIM> love that name
[13:39] <Colin-G8TMV> oh, currently N of stansted
[13:39] Nick change: fsphil_2I0VIM -> fsphil
[13:40] <kokey> actually it will probably be right in the flight path real soon
[13:40] <LazyL-M0LEP> Oh, that was an interesting jitter...
[13:40] <Colin-G8TMV> it will be way above the planes though
[13:40] <Upu_2E0UPU> that was a plane on approach to Stanstead just missing it :)
[13:40] <LazyL-M0LEP> I sure hope not! ;)
[13:41] <Upu_2E0UPU> so do I
[13:41] <kokey> true it should be way above
[13:41] <number10_2E0DBR> its right in lign with the flight path
[13:41] <kokey> hmmm
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[13:42] <Colin-G8TMV> yup, it's at 12000 ft the planes are below 5000 around there
[13:42] Action: kokey checks flightradar24.com
[13:42] <kokey> that wind direction looks like it might get some planes coming from the north east
[13:43] <_Hix> Still got rtty
[13:43] <NickB1> http://www.radarvirtuel.com/
[13:43] <daveake> Watch out for a sudden change in speed and direction :)
[13:43] <Upu_2E0UPU> yeah still getting data take that radio horizon
[13:43] <kokey> no planes around there at the moment, just one easyjet plane that has landed already
[13:43] <Upu_2E0UPU> goner
[13:44] <kokey> actually, it landed only a few minutes ago
[13:44] <kokey> they crosses paths, but not sure about the altitude
[13:44] <Upu_2E0UPU> thats so close to Number10
[13:44] <_Hix> Still got
[13:44] <daveake> Yagi-stuck-out-the-window has given up, but the W300 (a good bit higher) is still working
[13:45] <fsphil> ft790 working well daveake?
[13:45] <daveake> I foresee the purchase of an aerial rotator :D
[13:45] <G0DJA> 2700m still haering but many false decodes now
[13:45] <kokey> there is a plane at 4671m south of braintree
[13:45] Nick change: Upu_2E0UPU -> UpuWork
[13:45] <UpuWork> Ahead of you daveake :)
[13:45] <daveake> fsphil Yeah great. Display reading 8jHz higher than actuality, but otherwise fine
[13:45] <daveake> Had to replace the battery holders as the +ve contacts were all corroded. Did that whilst waiting for the launch :D
[13:45] <fsphil> jigahertz?
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[13:46] <daveake> lol
[13:46] <daveake> k
[13:46] <daveake> Signal gone here now :(
[13:46] <fsphil> the battery contacts corroded seems to be a common fault with them
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[13:46] <daveake> £3 on replacedments at Maplin on the way home yesterday
[13:46] <_Hix-Android> Still got it but weak
[13:46] <number10_2E0DBR> is steve on his way to the landing site?
[13:47] <kokey> another plane heading that way
[13:47] <UpuWork> not sure are you at home ?
[13:47] <G0DJA> Was FADE at the end a coincidence? $$$$$$XABEN,492,12:56:03,52.05809,-0.60842l25344,0.0,0.00,49;52.04547;0.30323*FB07
[13:47] <number10_2E0DBR> yes
[13:47] <UpuWork> whats that 6 miles from your house ?
[13:47] <G0DJA> $$$XABEN,42,13:4:1151.;4385,4.43990,2149,0.0,0.00,5;5;CB0;0.8*FADE
[13:47] <fsphil> lol
[13:47] <number10_2E0DBR> not far
[13:47] <fsphil> the fades are coming
[13:47] <_Hix-Android> Nope still clear again
[13:47] <kokey> VIR900, 3500m
[13:47] <UpuWork> want me to pass your number on to Steve ?
[13:48] <kokey> ok it's going to go over it
[13:48] <G0DJA> No audible signal here now - Off to get Kate from work - good luck with retrieving it
[13:48] <LazyL-M0LEP> It must be landing. It just said so! ;)
[13:49] <Laurenceb> rocketboy has been abducted by some crazy caravan park dwellers
[13:49] <kokey> not a bad area, I've walked around there
[13:50] <LazyL-M0LEP> It's looking for a pond...
[13:50] <SamSilver_> landing predictor jumping back and forth across the road
[13:50] <kokey> it's more of a drive way than a road
[13:50] <zsendre> hope it floats
[13:51] <SamSilver_> hmmm looks like it want to play in the water and not the road
[13:51] <kokey> oh didn't realise that green thing was a pond
[13:52] <LazyL-M0LEP> Getting prety faint here now.
[13:52] <LazyL-M0LEP> Lost it.
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[13:52] <UpuWork> Number10 ?
[13:52] <kokey> not a bad area to look around in
[13:52] <fsphil> what altitude?
[13:52] Nick change: junderwood_M0JCU -> junderwood
[13:52] <UpuWork> 253m
[13:52] <fsphil> nice!
[13:53] <daveake> wow
[13:53] <daveake> That's excellent
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[13:54] <Laurenceb> looks like we lost reception
[13:54] <kokey> abbots hall looks like a nice place
[13:54] <_Hix> So someone is on the way to get it? Car is showing as Stratford
[13:54] <Laurenceb> heading north of the pond
[13:54] <Laurenceb> hope it avoided the trees, looks like it might have come down by the lodge
[13:54] <Colin-G8TMV> hopefully someone will get a new data packet as the yget closer looking for it
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[13:55] <UpuWork> yeah they will
[13:55] <UpuWork> I've texted Steve number10
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[13:56] <_Hix> OK, if he needs a hand I'm @ 51.689252,0.04122
[13:56] <Colin-G8TMV> looks like the chase car is heading for the M40
[13:56] <gonzo_> hopefully fallen short of the pond
[13:56] <LazyL-M0LEP> Curiously, 2E0DBR lost it on the same line as I did.
[13:56] <UpuWork> bit of fun for Friday
[13:57] <F6AGV_> LAST POINT HERE 51.92306 0.50417 253m -5.0m/s
[13:57] <UpuWork> cheers F6AGV_ :)
[13:57] <daveake> LazyL-M0LEP Yeah I thought you'd drop out earlier!
[13:57] <LazyL-M0LEP> So did I.
[13:57] <zsendre> Nice flight!
[13:57] Action: fsphil shall be bug hunting later
[13:57] <kokey> wow, from calais, nice
[13:57] <F6AGV_> SPLENDID FLIGHT WOUUUUUUUUUUUU !!!
[13:58] <F6AGV_> YES QTH F6AGV and second F5APQ twice receive !!!
[13:58] <UpuWork> good going
[13:59] <fsphil> you did better than me F6AGV_ :)
[13:59] <F6AGV_> Very very very glad for this nice afternoon : CONGRATULATIONS to ALL !
[14:00] <kokey> _Hix-Android must be half an hour away
[14:00] <UpuWork> number10 is only 10 mins away but let Steve decide what he wants to do
[14:01] <UpuWork> You have to give Steve credit look at his drive home tonight :)
[14:01] <daveake> :)
[14:01] <F6AGV_> http://alerte-radiosondes.blogspot.com/ for few pictures here !
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[14:02] <F6AGV_> BYE 73
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[14:06] <_Hix> I'm amazed that I could pick it up so close to landing. The rubber duck on my AR8000 is broken.Need to get a proper antenna. Still pleased I managed to get a radio in time for this launch, Cheers Cov_Balloon
[14:07] <fsphil> I enjoy the tracking more than the launching tbh :)
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[14:07] <daveake> :)
[14:07] <fsphil> unless it's a nice summers day anyway
[14:07] <_Hix> like today
[14:08] <daveake> When I started this hobby, I thought it would all be about the launch and getting those photos back, but the tracking and chase are great fun
[14:08] <LazyL-M0LEP> Yep.
[14:08] <kokey> the recovery part excites me, but I don't know if it will be the same if I'm actually doing it
[14:08] <daveake> My W300 atop (most of) an 8m mast - http://i.imgur.com/9AODa.jpg
[14:08] <fsphil> yea, the chase is the best part
[14:08] <fsphil> unless it lands in a tree
[14:08] <daveake> lol
[14:09] <daveake> or the North Sea 10 miles out with no telemetry
[14:09] <fsphil> that too
[14:09] <fsphil> infact, more that
[14:09] <daveake> But bestest best is the sea when it comes back to you :D
[14:09] <zsendre> I can tell that just following it live over the net was fun too (QTH: Budapest)
[14:09] <fsphil> it's had enough of these payloads landing in it
[14:09] <kokey> is there a log of landings?
[14:10] <kokey> I'm just wondering how many landed on buildings, in roads, in trees, in water, etc.
[14:10] <daveake> http://www.ukhas.org.uk/projects:launch_list
[14:11] <zsendre> That list goes up to XABEN-19. Any info on the current payload?
[14:11] <daveake> I'm sure Steve will add it in due course :)
[14:11] <kokey> daveake: heh, belgium
[14:12] <daveake> Another popular spot
[14:12] <zsendre> will be checking :-)
[14:16] <zsendre> Thanks for making this afternoon so enjoyable! Congratulations to Steve and to all who helped in tracking!
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[14:27] <_Hix> looks like i was just about slap bang underneath it@
[14:27] <_Hix> Time: 2012-02-24 12:40:41
[14:27] <_Hix> Position: 52.10163,-0.76784
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[14:32] <griffonbot> Received email: Solar Balloonman "[UKHAS] Re: New project to follow!"
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[14:33] <cuddykid_mob> any updates? has it been recovered?
[14:33] <daveake> no news
[14:34] <_Hix> not heard anything - waiting to see if they want me to nip up and have a scour about
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[14:35] <cuddykid_mob> looks to be a fairly decent landing site
[14:35] <cuddykid_mob> _Hix, the soldering station is in my hands! though currently having a hard time bringing it back on the train with stacks of other stuff!
[14:36] <_Hix> kewl - looks like i had bad luck with my order - over a week and still not with me
[14:36] <cuddykid_mob> its quite a large box. clearly been recycled though as it says some bakery and temp readings on the side lol
[14:36] <cuddykid_mob> oh no _Hix :(
[14:37] <_Hix> Germland are big on recycling - I wasnt joking with the comment the other day about returning your packaging
[14:37] <_Hix> You can even get cents back for your small plastic coke bottles
[14:37] <cuddykid_mob> lol - sounds good if they pay you!
[14:38] <daveake> I was in Finland last year with the WRC rally. One of our guys collected *everyone*'s plastic bottles and took the lot in for recycling. He made quite a bit of money :)
[14:39] <cuddykid_mob> oh nice
[14:39] <_Hix> what were you doing for the rally?
[14:39] <griffonbot> Received email: "[UKHAS] XABEN-21 TOUCHDOWN here"
[14:39] <gonzo_> was that nota contributing factor in a big tunnel fire a while ago. Lorry full of returned packaging
[14:39] <cuddykid_mob> i was wondering why the box had 0C all over it - then i spotted a website with "bakery" in it lol
[14:39] <daveake> Timing system for split timing on the "power stage"
[14:40] <daveake> Wrote the firmware and had a hand in the electronics
[14:40] <_Hix> ahhh - are you still with them? Big problems on the Monte this eyar
[14:41] <_Hix> Sweet - I love rally - never actually worked on any WRC stuff, all been F1/LMP
[14:41] <daveake> You heard? Yeah, resolved now, fortunately. Did this on contract.
[14:42] <_Hix> Yeah, all a bit of a mess think they used a gsm based system temporarily :/
[14:42] <daveake> There was a "difference of opinion" on who owned the timing and tracking kit - either Stage1 Tech (who run it) or North One who they did it for.
[14:42] <daveake> North One went into administration end of last year and the administrators grabbed the kit
[14:43] <_Hix> money money money.... root of all....
[14:43] <daveake> I guess it finally dawned on them that since only one company knew how to use it, there wasn't any gain in keeping it
[14:43] <daveake> For Monte a GSM system went in, but didn't work too well
[14:44] <daveake> ooh map update
[14:45] <daveake> Middle of a field :)
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[14:46] <daveake> Number10's ID isn't that? 2E0DBR
[14:47] <LazyL-M0LEP> Don't like the look of that shadow right nearby...
[14:48] <daveake> hmmm
[14:48] <Colin-G8TMV> Hmm... pylons I think
[14:48] <daveake> Payload says 76m. What height is the ground?
[14:49] <eroomde> ha
[14:49] <eroomde> yep that looks pretty pylony to me
[14:50] <_Hix> probably around that around there
[14:51] <CovBalloon> we just need our buddies in the nsa to fly over and take a look for us
[14:51] <daveake> Apparently the ground there is at 76.4m :D
[14:52] <daveake> So the payload is on the ground; dunno about the chute :p
[14:52] <UpuWork> *cough* tree *cough*
[14:52] <daveake> Ah, sorry, nice-shaped *tree* that is :)
[14:52] <eroomde> dunno if the payload is on the ground either
[14:52] <eroomde> it might be
[14:52] <eroomde> y'know
[14:52] <eroomde> just hangin
[14:52] <gonzo_> only 11kv
[14:52] <UpuWork> did someone go out hunting ?
[14:52] <gonzo_> wear you rubber vloves
[14:53] <Colin-G8TMV> row of power poles (the ones like telegraph poles) running N/S up the field
[14:53] <_Hix> no - waiting to see
[14:53] <UpuWork> power lines ?
[14:53] <number10_2E0DBR> Number 10 has located 51.92376 0.50872 stuck on power lines
[14:53] <eroomde> yep UpuWork
[14:53] <daveake> eek
[14:53] <UpuWork> Hi Mrs Number10
[14:53] <_Hix> thought it was a low level powerline
[14:54] <daveake> What is it about TV and *****s?
[14:54] <daveake> p*
[14:54] <Colin-G8TMV> quick, unhook it and put it in the pond - makes much better TV
[14:55] <daveake> "He's high above the ground. He's just hanging around (Hanging around)"
[14:55] <UpuWork> I've relay to Steve Mrs Number10 thanks to Mr Number10
[14:55] <number10_2E0DBR> Number 10 is now going to have a look
[14:55] <daveake> How's his life insurance?
[14:55] <_Hix> oh dear, at least the BBC didn't have to get a helicopter into the channel though
[14:55] <griffonbot> Received email: David Bowkis "Re: [UKHAS] XABEN-21 flight announcement."
[14:56] <_Hix> christ he told his mother, christ he told her not to bother coz he's all right in the city
[14:57] <gonzo_> at least it's not the main grid lines, like his previous one
[14:57] <kokey> must be static drawing it in
[14:58] <_Hix> http://www.civilianaviation.co.uk/forum/viewforum.php?f=17
[14:58] <_Hix> oops - wrong window
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[14:59] <jgrahamc> Hmm. Looking at the tracker is XABEN in a power line?
[14:59] <Colin-G8TMV> yes
[15:00] <kokey> if it had the right induction coil they wouldn't have had to worry about it running out of battery now
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[15:02] <jgrahamc> Is anyone close?
[15:02] <daveake> number10 is there
[15:02] <kokey> number10_2E0DBR is
[15:04] <_Hix> installing fl-digi - what do i do for callsign? Is there somewhere that allocates
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[15:04] <CovBalloon> only if you get your ham license
[15:04] <CovBalloon> how about Hix
[15:05] <_Hix> ahh cool I'll just use my chat handle then
[15:06] <daveake> I keep expecting to see number10 trudging across that field :D
[15:06] <NigeyS> lol
[15:06] <NigeyS> hey jgrahamc :)
[15:06] <jgrahamc> Hey NigeyS
[15:06] <CovBalloon> daveake what antenna are you usingon the ar8000? other than the yagi?
[15:06] <NigeyS> long time no see, how are things ?
[15:06] <jgrahamc> Looking on StreetView I can't see the powerline
[15:06] <UpuWork> Afternoon jgrahamc
[15:06] <CovBalloon> is there as balloon in the way
[15:06] <jgrahamc> Things are good. I am slowly working on GAGA-2. New job, so lots of things interrupted
[15:06] <jgrahamc> Hi UpuWork
[15:07] <NigeyS> jgrahamc, ahh keeping busy then, any eta for gaga-2 ?
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[15:08] <jgrahamc> Sometime in April
[15:08] <NigeyS> great :D
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[15:09] <UpuWork> Steve is still a good hour and a half away
[15:10] <cuddykid_mob> cross country road links are not good
[15:10] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] XABEN-21 flight announcement."
[15:10] <cuddykid_mob> took quite a while trying to get from near gloucester to high wycombe
[15:11] <cuddykid_mob> this is always an interesting stage to see if anyone picks up the payload :P
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[15:18] <Rob_M0DTS> Quite high speed chase car for the m25...hi
[15:18] <Colin-G8TMV> you mean it's actually moving?
[15:18] <daveake> About time chase car speeds were capped on upload ;)
[15:18] <Rob_M0DTS> yeah moving!
[15:18] <daveake> wow
[15:22] <fsphil> that's not a pylon, it's a payload hanger
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[15:23] <Colin-G8TMV> fsphil: to prevent the payload from getting muddy ;)
[15:24] <daveake> And to deter it being taken away by any locals
[15:24] <jgrahamc> The only good thing is that doesn't look like a massive pylon and is probably supplying power to just that house by the road.
[15:24] <Colin-G8TMV> I suspect it's one of the ones that looks like a telegraph pole
[15:25] <gonzo_> has it been actually seen hanging, or are weassuming from the telem?
[15:25] <fsphil> reported hanging by number10
[15:25] <daveake> Our on-site reporter
[15:25] <gonzo_> rgr, he not going to risk retrieving I assume
[15:25] <_Hix> do the recovery crew know they've got a live one :)
[15:25] <fsphil> hope not!
[15:26] <fsphil> hopefully a good gust of wind can get it down
[15:26] <kokey> this is where a quadcopter with a cigar lighter or fireworks would have been handy
[15:26] <gonzo_> (those 11kv lines tend to droop down when you take out the instualtrs with a 12bore)
[15:26] <daveake> I need to add some items to my recovery kit
[15:27] <Colin-G8TMV> I suspect it's easily reachable with a fibreglass pole with a hook on the end
[15:27] <_Hix> wellies thick rubber gloves 12 gauge
[15:27] <daveake> The payload says it's at 77m, and I checked an altitude map and that said 76.4m
[15:28] <daveake> How accurate either of those are, I don't know
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[15:40] <Colin-G8TMV> Hmm.. chase car seems to have stopped
[15:41] <Rob_M0DTS> quite windy here, hopefully wont take long to loosen ;-)
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[15:45] <LazyL-M0LEP> ...but not with a carbon-fibre pole...
[15:45] <daveake> :)
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[16:50] <fsphil> no news then
[16:50] <daveake> nope
[16:51] <daveake> No more positions from payload or chase car
[16:51] <fsphil> stealth recovery mode hopefully
[16:51] <daveake> I was about to say "currently" but perhaps that's not the best word :)
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[16:58] <cuddykid> has it been retreived?
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[17:03] <Upu> Steve says thanks to everyone for the assistance today
[17:03] <Upu> no not yet but there is someone with it
[17:03] <daveake> Nice to get some live info :)
[17:03] <fsphil> yay
[17:04] <number10_2E0DBR> home now
[17:04] <LazyL-M0LEP> Hmmm...
[17:04] <number10_2E0DBR> i can still hear it
[17:04] <cuddykid> goodo
[17:04] <daveake> I guess it has a long-lasting power source
[17:04] <LazyL-M0LEP> 11kV?
[17:04] <number10_2E0DBR> is still in power lines
[17:04] <daveake> how far off the ground?
[17:05] <cuddykid> _Hix: unboxed the soldering station - now I need to get a power adapter that includes the ground pin for EU ones :S
[17:05] <daveake> the payload I mean
[17:05] <number10_2E0DBR> the payload is on one wire
[17:05] <cuddykid> oh no :S
[17:05] <number10_2E0DBR> about 12 inches
[17:05] <daveake> :D
[17:05] <daveake> I was right then :)
[17:05] <cuddykid> can you throw something up at it?!
[17:05] <number10_2E0DBR> and the transmitter and antenna are dangling from oposite wite
[17:05] <daveake> The report payload altitude was 0.6m above the ground level at that point
[17:06] <LazyL-M0LEP> Ah... Not so good...
[17:07] <Colin-G8TMV> so we need a fibreglass pole with a firework on it to burn through the string between the wires
[17:07] <LazyL-M0LEP> ...and the chute and remains of balloon?
[17:08] <NigeyS> nah just need a wooden ladder and a brave person :p
[17:12] <number10_2E0DBR> I have a fiber glass pole but no fireworks
[17:13] <number10_2E0DBR> I think payload computer must have reset looking at frame count
[17:20] <cuddykid> would it be too risky to run the soldering iron plug without ground pin? (using EU -> UK adapter with just the 2 pins)
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[17:31] <Dan-K2VOL> cuddykid I think you'll probaby be fine, most of the time in the US we don't have ground pins on soldering irons, but do be careful if it has a metal case
[17:31] <Dan-K2VOL> and I'd replace it when you can
[17:32] <Dan-K2VOL> I don't suppose you can solder it back on :-P
[17:32] <cuddykid> Dan-K2VOL: is it just the risk of ESD or is it electric shock risk?! :P
[17:32] <Dan-K2VOL> electric shock
[17:32] <Dan-K2VOL> if the heating element touches the metal case, it will put the mains power onto the case. a problem if you then touch the case while you're grounded
[17:33] <gonzo_> make sure it will work on 240v if it's US plug
[17:33] <Dan-K2VOL> I think he's coming from EU to UK
[17:33] <cuddykid> ah right
[17:33] <cuddykid> yeah, plug is EU
[17:34] <cuddykid> rated at 250V
[17:34] <gonzo_> if ir;s fitted 2pin, then prob double insulated so ok
[17:34] <cuddykid> gonzo_: it's got connection areas for ground pin - and it says to always power it grounded :S
[17:35] <gonzo_> but fitted with 2pin mains?
[17:35] <gonzo_> you have a make/number to google
[17:35] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah I mean you really should ground it
[17:35] <cuddykid> yeah - but with pads and hole for ground
[17:35] <cuddykid> I'll get a grounded adapter, no probs
[17:35] <gonzo_> pads.hole on the mains plug?
[17:36] <cuddykid> yep gonzo_
[17:36] <gonzo_> ah, easiest way, cut it off and wire a plug
[17:36] <cuddykid> that's also what I was thinking :P haha
[17:36] <cuddykid> urm - is it same colour coding for EU wires?
[17:37] <gonzo_> should be
[17:38] <cuddykid> I'll see if I've got a spare plug lying around
[17:46] number10_2E0DBR (569a24ab@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.154.36.171) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[17:47] <daveake> Looks like number10's power got cut off :D
[17:47] <Dan-K2VOL> ha
[17:47] number10 (569a24ab@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.154.36.171) joined #highaltitude.
[17:47] <daveake> briefly
[17:50] _Hix-Android (~androirc@87.194.200.92) joined #highaltitude.
[17:50] <_Hix-Android> Been retrieved yet? Shocking business ;p
[17:50] <cuddykid> _Hix-Android: unboxed the soldering station - now I need to get a power adapter that includes the ground pin for EU ones :S
[17:51] <cuddykid> well - I'm actually wiring a british plug on :P
[17:51] <_Hix-Android> Gonna say just change plug. What's quality like? Seemed heavy
[17:51] <cuddykid> good quality
[17:52] <cuddykid> comes with 0.8mm chisel end
[17:52] <_Hix-Android> Kewl
[17:52] <Upu> cuddykid
[17:52] <cuddykid> hi Upu
[17:52] <Upu> you know you said 0805 was small
[17:52] <Upu> http://i.imgur.com/EwMhb.jpg
[17:52] <_Hix-Android> Bummer. Batch order of conical 0.5 tips methinks
[17:52] <Upu> thats an 0603 with an 0201 I ordered incorrectly next to it
[17:52] <cuddykid> Upu: :O mind boggles
[17:53] <cuddykid> oh wow - is that under microscope?! ;) haha
[17:53] <Upu> yes it is actually :)
[17:53] <cuddykid> _Hix-Android: I didn't even notice it was chisel at first because it's quite a tiny end
[17:53] <cuddykid> Upu: oh wow :P
[17:54] <cuddykid> Upu: what tip do you use on your irons?
[17:54] <_Hix-Android> Oh ok, see how it goes then.
[17:54] <daveake> Here's my hot tip cuddykid - get someone else to do it :)
[17:54] <cuddykid> lol daveake - I think you're going to be right
[17:55] <_Hix-Android> Fnar... here's my hot tip
[17:55] <cuddykid> time to snip this rather chunky wire
[17:56] <cuddykid> right: 3 wires - green, blue, brown
[17:57] <_Hix-Android> Cut the red wire..... boom
[17:57] <cuddykid> haha
[17:57] <Colin-G8TMV> No, the green wire - oh, wait - he's colour blind
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[18:00] <cuddykid> it's like there are drugs or something smuggled in the wire - there's white powdery substance everywhere
[18:00] <_Hix-Android> Bonus
[18:00] <cuddykid> lol
[18:01] OZ1SKY_Brian (~Brian@x1-6-20-4e-7f-c8-44-7a.k599.webspeed.dk) joined #highaltitude.
[18:01] <_Hix-Android> Did they recover the payload or is it still humming away in mid air
[18:02] <cuddykid> green is ground?
[18:03] <Colin-G8TMV> yes, but you could check with a resistance meter
[18:03] <_Hix-Android> L-r blue green brown
[18:03] <cuddykid> yeah, I suppose that would be the safest thing to do
[18:03] <Colin-G8TMV> a UK lead would have green/yellow
[18:04] <_Hix-Android> http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/science/images/68_wiring_a_plug.gif
[18:04] <cuddykid> oh no, not bite size haha
[18:05] <_Hix-Android> TUt tut ;p back to skool
[18:06] <_Hix-Android> Back in a bit.
[18:18] <cuddykid> done :D
[18:18] <Upu> _Hix-Android I think they are waiting on the electricity board to come remove safely
[18:19] <cuddykid> do they charge for callouts?
[18:19] <Upu> oh yes
[18:19] <SpeedEvil> Oh dear.
[18:19] <SpeedEvil> :/
[18:19] <cuddykid> :(
[18:20] <cuddykid> right - time to plug in the newly mapped UK plug - if I suddenly quit then you know what's happened :P lol
[18:20] G0DJA (5868842e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.104.132.46) joined #highaltitude.
[18:20] <SpeedEvil> Good luck!
[18:20] <G0DJA> Some of these antibot systems are too difficult for humans to make out!
[18:21] <cuddykid> btw - soldering gurus - when it says at 250C you should 'tin' it before continuing onto higher temps - does that mean put a blob of solder on the tip?
[18:21] <Hiena> Jup.
[18:22] <G0DJA> Wipe the tip on a wet sponge then melt a bit of solder with flux in it
[18:22] <daveake> cuddykid as it warms up for the first time, press older on to the tip. As soon as it melts get the tip covered
[18:22] <daveake> solder not "older"
[18:23] <G0DJA> When you finish you should leave some solder on the tip to cool to avoid problems next time as well
[18:23] <daveake> Don't use used solder - needs the flux
[18:23] <Hiena> The temperature and the lifetime of the tip related. At higher temperature the oxidization occur faster, which erode the tip.
[18:23] <Hiena> Covering it with some solder, protects it.
[18:23] <cuddykid> what temp is right for the soldering I'll be doing? (soldering stuff onto pcb)
[18:24] golddragon24 (~anonymous@wufi-pat1-1.wufi.wustl.edu) joined #highaltitude.
[18:24] <daveake> I set mine to 325 for leaded and 375 for unleaded
[18:24] <G0DJA> As an ex-HV authorised electrical engineer with MEB, I do hope no-one did anything that they should not have done...
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[18:24] <cuddykid> just changing an EU plug to UK plug :P
[18:25] <G0DJA> Off to check out a health club - CUL everyone
[18:25] kokey (~kokey@abacus.netopti.net) joined #highaltitude.
[18:25] <G0DJA> Not the plug - the payload in the 11kV OH line...
[18:26] <cuddykid> oh lol
[18:26] <NigeyS> shotgun.....
[18:26] <Hiena> cuddykid: Depends on the solder and the size od the iron. Usually i experiment the melting point and set 25 degree higher the iron.
[18:26] <SpeedEvil> Oh - they got an 11kv line.
[18:26] <SpeedEvil> Fun.
[18:26] <NigeyS> ive used mine as low as 300 for unleaded solder on the seeedstudio pcbs
[18:27] <Hiena> NigeyS: Gues, it was a thin unleaded solder, isn't it?
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[18:27] <NigeyS> 1mm
[18:27] <Hiena> Hmmm, Multicore?
[18:28] <NigeyS> dunno, just says 1mm flux core unleaded solder...
[18:29] <Hiena> We use at the company the Multicore 1mm and sometimes it's pain in the back. Usually we run the irons dround 325-330 to work properly.
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[18:30] <NigeyS> ahh, seems to do ok at 300 .. pretty small tip mind, .5mm
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[18:33] <jgrahamc> Yes, sure looks like an 11kV line.
[18:34] <NigeyS> definately spikey hair territory then :|
[18:35] <Hiena> Nah, just recharging the payload.
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[18:35] <NigeyS> lol
[18:35] _Hix (~androirc@host81-151-136-151.range81-151.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[18:36] <Hiena> Well, in the BUT the current hot topic is using the HV lines to recharge the line checker UAVs.
[18:38] <Hiena> They will put the whole UAV electronics to the HV testlab and simulate buzzing around the 400kV lines.
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[18:48] <zyp> I was thinking about having my quadrotor do that too
[18:49] <Dan-K2VOL1> anyone play with solar on balloons or uavs much?
[18:52] <cuddykid> Dan-K2VOL1: I will be playing with uavs a fair bit soon :P
[18:53] <cuddykid> waiting for my custom flying wing and APM2
[18:53] <Dan-K2VOL1> cool cuddykid, any solar plans?
[18:53] <cuddykid> Dan-K2VOL1: not for the next launch - but definitely will look at it for future launches
[18:54] <cuddykid> need to create some sort of power system (solar panels, battery etc)
[18:54] <Dan-K2VOL1> indeed!
[18:54] <Dan-K2VOL1> darn rechargeable batteries suck in the cold
[18:54] <cuddykid> In the long term I want to build something that could fly around up there for quite a long time - then solar would be the only option
[18:57] <_Hix> Any antenna gurus kicking round?
[18:57] <jgrahamc> Ask your antenna question and see if you get a response :-)
[18:59] <_Hix> For 434 am I correct that a 70cm antenna would be correct? Apart from compacts why use half or quarter wave?
[18:59] andrew_apex (~chatzilla@188-220-169-100.zone11.bethere.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[18:59] <fsphil> physics
[19:00] <_Hix> Compactness Damn you Android
[19:00] <fsphil> (i'm not an antenna guru - tis a black art)
[19:00] <fsphil> a 70cm wire won't radiate very well on the 70cm band
[19:00] <fsphil> unless you cut it in the middle
[19:00] <_Hix> So 35 better?
[19:01] <jgrahamc> Is your plan just to dangle 70cm of wire for the antenna?
[19:01] <jonsowman> no
[19:01] <jonsowman> quarter wave
[19:01] <jgrahamc> I don't think that will work very well.
[19:01] <fsphil> 17cm-ish
[19:01] <SpeedEvil> http://fatpita.net/?i=1209 - on balloons
[19:01] <jonsowman> think of the wave in the antenna in voltage terms, you want the end of the antenna to be at an antinode
[19:02] <jonsowman> 35cm and 70cm are nodes
[19:02] <_Hix> Was going to connect coax centre to a rod of the correct length
[19:02] <jonsowman> 17.5 and 43.75 are antinodes, hence 1/4 and 5/8 wave antennas
[19:02] <_Hix> At the moment I have a rubber duck... win.
[19:03] <jgrahamc> And the quarter wave ground plane design radiates all over the place.
[19:03] <_Hix> I was thinking from a reception point of view
[19:04] <jgrahamc> Personally I use a Yagi for reception.
[19:04] <_Hix> Doesn't that need to be in the correct direction though
[19:05] <jonsowman> yes
[19:05] <jgrahamc> Yes
[19:05] <jgrahamc> Yes, put it's not that hard to find your balloon, just wave the Yagi around until you hear it. I've done that a lot of times from home with balloons that are all over the place.
[19:05] <daveake> For today's flight I used a collinear mostly, on a mast in the garden, but a yagi in the window got a lot more signal. Problem is the loss in the 25(ish) cable for the collinear. I don't need that much and I'll get some low-loss cable.
[19:05] <jgrahamc> Especially helpful if the balloon leaves the carrier on all the time so there's a constant whistle to look for.
[19:06] <daveake> The yagi gave up during descent and the collinear (higher) kept going a while longer
[19:06] <_Hix> I need something I can get as high above the file as possible and leave it there.
[19:06] <daveake> height matters
[19:06] <jonsowman> and line of sight matters even more
[19:06] <_Hix> And length it would seem :)
[19:06] <daveake> Which you get with height :)
[19:07] <jonsowman> coax is lossy
[19:07] <jonsowman> even the good (best) stuff
[19:07] <_Hix> My major problem, bottom of a valley
[19:07] <daveake> Just been looking at that
[19:07] <_Hix> WHat wire would be best
[19:07] <jonsowman> Westflex 103 is often cited as The Best for 70cms
[19:07] <daveake> Might buy some "Westflex 103" which is a lot better than the RG58 I've been using
[19:07] <jonsowman> we seem to be of the same mind, daveake
[19:08] <daveake> :D
[19:08] <jonsowman> RG-213 is also pretty good
[19:08] <daveake> I've been researching this after my experience earlier!
[19:09] <_Hix> I'll look on RS. If its bulk only anyone want to split?
[19:10] <jonsowman> also try radioworld
[19:10] <daveake> Yes I'll split.
[19:10] <daveake> Cheapest I've seen is http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cable-WestFlex-W103-Ultra-Low-Loss-Cable-100m-Drum-/400279449501?pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_SpecialistRadioEquipment_SM&hash=item5d3283af9d#ht_526wt_1163
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[19:11] <_Hix> Ouch
[19:11] <jonsowman> that's actually quite a good price
[19:11] <jonsowman> it's not cheap stuff
[19:11] <daveake> Yep
[19:11] <number10> Upu: if you still need a screen shot of tracking maybe now is a good time to take that especially with the French receivers on the map
[19:11] <jonsowman> also that reel must weigh a silly amount
[19:11] <jonsowman> 16kg, haha
[19:11] <daveake> I was going to get some from Moonraker - http://www.moonraker.eu/Wire-Cable-Guy-Rope-and-Patch-Leads/Coax-Cable/WESTFLEX103-PER-METRE-50-OHM-COAX-CABLE
[19:12] <_Hix> Number10 looked pretty busy to me earlier
[19:13] <number10> yes - it did - and nice to see the receivers in France
[19:13] <jonsowman> daveake: 1.5dB loss for a 25m run at 434MHz
[19:13] <jonsowman> which is about a 30% power loss
[19:14] <_Hix> Jonsowman what would equivalent loss be for 75 ohm satellite coax?
[19:15] <jonsowman> it depends on the coax, but you don't want to use 75 ohm cabling with 50 ohm source and load impedances
[19:15] <jonsowman> that will be super-lossy
[19:15] <jonsowman> reflections all over the place
[19:15] <daveake> jonsowman Yeh I think RG58 is over 10dB loss for the 25m run I have
[19:16] <jonsowman> so you'll be getting 30% power loss instead of 90%
[19:16] <jonsowman> which is clearly a massive improvement :)
[19:16] <daveake> wiki has losses listed for different cable types - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaxial_cable
[19:16] <daveake> Yep
[19:17] <_Hix> Ok, you can tell I'm a smart cookie on this radio mullarkey
[19:17] <jonsowman> daveake: handy
[19:17] <daveake> _Hix mis-matched impredance is even worse than high losses
[19:18] <_Hix> Ok, its just I can get as much 75 or 50 coax as I want for bugger all. At mo I've spent shedloads and car insurance + mortgage are about to sting my ass
[19:19] <jonsowman> _Hix: if it's for a short run, something like RG-58 will be fine
[19:19] <jonsowman> and it's really cheap
[19:19] Action: LazyL-M0LEP started with the colinear, but switched to a 10 element yagi because of locaal interference issues.
[19:23] <Upu> note number10 and screen shotted thx
[19:24] <_Hix> What would be the best metal for the actual antenna? I know metals at least :)
[19:24] <_Hix> And is dia or wall thickness a consideration?
[19:26] <jonsowman> just some single copper wire or rod
[19:26] <jonsowman> *single core
[19:28] <_Hix> Would fiberglass rod be ok as a support
[19:28] <daveake> yep
[19:28] <jonsowman> i should think so
[19:28] <_Hix> Grrr I'm not American android
[19:29] <_Hix> So 5/8 with fibreglass rod and rg58 would be an improvement on my duck ;p
[19:30] <daveake> A coathanger cut to the right length would too :)
[19:30] <_Hix> Hmmm my kinda style
[19:31] <_Hix> All this would apply to military Airband too then
[19:31] <jonsowman> if the antenna is not bendy then put something non-conductive on the end of the driven element to stop it hurting people/things on landing
[19:31] <_Hix> Obv diff length
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[19:31] <jonsowman> yeah the antenna dimensions are a function of frequency
[19:32] <_Hix> Cool. (That'll be me on the roof tomorrow then)
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[19:33] <nosebleedkt> ping fsphil
[19:33] <nosebleedkt> fsphilL great news from ssdv :)
[19:34] <fsphil> if it works ;)
[19:34] <fsphil> I haven't tested it with a linksprite image yet
[19:34] <nosebleedkt> ok, at least you started it :)
[19:35] <_Hix> Cheers Jon and Dave saved hours of bling searching. Appreciated guys
[19:35] <nosebleedkt> I still have my live stream photo scheme on a paper of my wall
[19:36] <nosebleedkt> and im missing those points :)
[19:36] <jonsowman> no problem _Hix
[19:36] <fsphil> nosebleedkt, the linksprite can take images with different quality settings. did you take any with it set very low?
[19:37] <nosebleedkt> no. I'm not touching those settings.
[19:37] <nosebleedkt> the only thing i change is the uart and resolution.
[19:38] <fsphil> can you try taking a few with different quality
[19:38] <_Hix> Time to go and give my liver a kicking. Cheers guys
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[19:39] <nosebleedkt> fsphil I did it long time ago. I didn't see any difference in the pictures.
[19:39] <nosebleedkt> and from that moment I gave up with that setting
[19:40] <nosebleedkt> but if it just for you I can take some.
[19:40] <nosebleedkt> On Monday we don't work so I have 3 days off :)
[19:40] <fsphil> I seem to live at work this while back
[19:43] <nosebleedkt> what do you mean ?
[19:43] <fsphil> working late, and weekends
[19:43] Lunar_Lander (~gd-fermi@p54A07A39.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[19:43] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:43] <nosebleedkt> ohhh
[19:43] <nosebleedkt> fsphil why?
[19:44] <fsphil> too many things planned to happen all at the same time :)
[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> hello nosebleedkt
[19:44] <nosebleedkt> hi Luna!
[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> and hi fsphil
[19:44] <fsphil> g'day Lunar_Lander
[19:45] <nosebleedkt> so fsphil, I will get you some samples these days.
[19:45] <fsphil> thanks
[19:47] <Lunar_Lander> how is the life?
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> I got a new song for you all btw
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K44NeRDYRYM
[19:50] <Upu> eroomde Seeed can do the non uniform PCB shapes
[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> hi Upu
[19:50] <Upu> evening Lunar, sorry I'd gone to bed last night
[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> no problem
[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> my connection was failing as you saw
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[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> and hello G0DJA, seen you on the mailing list :)
[19:51] <nosebleedkt> Lunar_Lander: lol song
[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[19:52] <Lunar_Lander> wb Jessica_Lily
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[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> XABEN landed in a power line?!
[19:55] <daveake> No no no ...
[19:55] <daveake> .... landed in a strangely shaped tree with wire-type bbits hanging from it
[19:56] <daveake> :)
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[19:56] <daveake> :)
[19:57] <gonzo_> I assume the wire bits are other falling debris that got caught in the 'tree'?
[19:57] <daveake> Er, yeah, that's it .....
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[19:58] daveake (~daveake@daveake.plus.com) left irc: Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~
[19:58] <gonzo_> and so rests the case for the defence.
[19:58] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[20:00] <nosebleedkt> fsphil: https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/429352_392258237454893_259791880701530_1681179_931887548_n.jpg
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[20:05] <fsphil> can you upload the raw image somewhere, I think that site is modifying it
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> in what way modifying?
[20:06] <fsphil> recompressing it
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> ohhhh
[20:07] <nosebleedkt> wait
[20:07] Action: Lunar_Lander runs in circles
[20:07] Action: Lunar_Lander runs into that XABEN tree
[20:07] <nosebleedkt> http://imagebin.org/200621
[20:07] <nosebleedkt> fsphil
[20:07] Action: fsphil is listening to xaben rtty at the moment :)
[20:08] <nosebleedkt> I have the paper for about 6 months i think :P
[20:08] <Laurenceb_> XABEN in a tree?
[20:08] <Upu> pylon...
[20:08] <fsphil> ooh nosebleedkt I thought that was a sample pic from the camera. *slaps self*
[20:09] <LazyL-M0LEP> Check the aerial image on the tracker...
[20:09] <nosebleedkt> hahahhahah
[20:09] Action: nosebleedkt smiles at fsphil :p
[20:09] <Upu> can you still hear it number10 ?
[20:11] <number10> not recently but my house in in the way and just taken antenna down
[20:11] <Upu> ok
[20:13] <Lunar_Lander> OHHHH
[20:13] <Lunar_Lander> damn
[20:13] <Lunar_Lander> cable landing
[20:14] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[20:14] Action: Lunar_Lander hits head on cupboard
[20:14] <number10> there was a possibility that it could have been dragged off the cables as the balloon and line was on the ground - but I thought I would just leave it there for steve Upu
[20:14] <SpeedEvil> Is there a pic of the payload?
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[20:14] <Upu> ok
[20:15] <Lunar_Lander> ohhh don't touch what is hanging down
[20:15] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWhkbDMISl8 - sorta related.
[20:15] <Lunar_Lander> that is really dangerous
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[20:18] Nick change: daveake_ -> daveake
[20:18] <Lunar_Lander> get the fire brigade number10, Upu, steve
[20:18] <Upu> no they won't touch it
[20:18] <daveake> they just spray water on things
[20:18] <Upu> electricity board
[20:18] <Laurenceb_> oh thats just 11Kv
[20:18] <Laurenceb_> nothing to worry about
[20:18] <Laurenceb_> use a plastic pole
[20:18] <Laurenceb_> i thought a proper pylon
[20:19] <SpeedEvil> Preferably not a carbon reinforced plastic pole though.
[20:19] <Laurenceb_> lol
[20:19] <SpeedEvil> Indeed - 11kv - one layer of insulation tape will do fine.
[20:19] <BrainDamage> aluminium reinforced plastic pole?
[20:19] <Laurenceb_> im not sure about 1 layer
[20:19] <daveake> I was on a train once where the electric engine burnt out. The fire brigade turned up and were about to spray their hoses over it when I heard one shout out "Is the power still on?"
[20:19] <SpeedEvil> One layer will.
[20:19] <SpeedEvil> The edges - on the other hand...
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> daveake: was it still on?
[20:20] <daveake> dunno. They changed their mind :D
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> was it a third rail or overhead line?
[20:20] <daveake> 3rd rail
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> 3rd rail has just 800 V which astonished me
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> as overhead has some 15 kV
[20:22] <daveake> Any update from Steve?
[20:23] <Upu> I'm not sure he was picking it up
[20:24] <Upu> I spoke to him about 5pm he was stuck in traffic but another team from the BBC had relieved number10
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[20:24] <Upu> They'd called the electricity board
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[20:25] <fsphil> lets hope they don't have any problems
[20:25] <fsphil> hoping we get to see the footage too eventually
[20:25] <Upu> One Show
[20:25] <Upu> I think
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[20:27] <jcoxon> so whats the news
[20:27] Action: jcoxon at a course all day
[20:27] <daveake> Payload near the ground
[20:27] <daveake> Suspended
[20:27] <Upu> pylon
[20:27] <jcoxon> eek
[20:28] <Upu> I think Steve left BBC with it not sure he was stuck in heavy traffic at 5
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[20:28] <Upu> number10 kept an eye on payload (landed a few miles from his house) until some BBC people turned up
[20:28] <daveake> He was a bit optimistic going round the M25 on a Friday afternoon
[20:29] <Upu> alot of listeners for a Friday
[20:29] <daveake> 11 at 1 point
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> hello jcoxon
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[20:33] <number10> powerlines are the ones with wodden post - caught the lines nxt to a post
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[20:43] <chris_99> how did the bbc find out?
[20:46] <Upu> it was their flight
[20:46] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:46] <Lunar_Lander> they watched HIM
[20:46] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:46] <Lunar_Lander> Upu that guy on youtube who reviews those video cameras like the 808 got some hilarious comments
[20:47] <Lunar_Lander> such as "Are you James May? Can you get Jeremy Clarkson to make a review?"
[20:47] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[21:07] <_Hix-Android> Upu, do you know what the neck lift or payload was? I'm thinking they had hd up there. And not a go pro
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[21:39] <Lunar_Lander> daveake: how are you?
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[21:47] <Lunar_Lander> hello andrew_apex
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[21:50] <navrac> evening all
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> hello navrac
[21:51] <navrac> hello lunar have i missed much in the past few days?
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> I don't think so
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> I only have been here in the evenings or late at night
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> navrac: http://habhub.org/zeusbot/
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[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> there you can read up what happened here
[21:52] <navrac> ive had no usable internet since monday - felt like I'd lost an arm
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[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> wb cuddykid
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[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> navrac: yeah I know that feeling
[21:56] Nick change: soafee-chan -> spacekitteh
[21:57] <Jim3> hey guys. interesting day's events. i've been watching it here and on the tracker. I hope they get the payload back ok.
[21:58] <Jim3> the ukhas wiki lists the NTX2 as the workhorse radio, does that mean that most flights only have air to ground comms, no uplink to the balloon or cutdown etc?
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[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> yes Jim3
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> exactly
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[22:00] <Jim3> ahhhh thats interesting, so cutdown is done autonomusly from GPS 'bounding' rules?
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[22:00] <navrac2> grrr grotty hotel internet connection
[22:00] <navrac2> cant even do irc
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[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> yeah some people make geofences Jim3
[22:01] <Jim3> i guess cutdown is a pretty rare event on a well planned mission anyway.
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[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:02] <Jim3> is there any practical, legal way to get uplink to the payload at altitude?
[22:02] <Jim3> via 70cm or other?
[22:03] <navrac2> thats what im working on at the moment - using an rfm22b as a receiver on 458mhz. -Im currently testing antennas
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[22:04] <navrac2> ive got free timne, access to a tall building and a mile long street to wander up measuring signal strength to find the best antenna to use foir the uplink.
[22:05] <navrac2> and on the plane on theway over i got the rfm22 to scan the channels as i flew over to see how busy the band is
[22:05] <Jim3> very cool. do you have a blog? would be interested in your progress <navrac2>
[22:05] <navrac2> keep meaning to blog, but never get round to it.
[22:05] <navrac2> but happy to share anything i find out
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[22:07] <navrac2> my current best guess is that with a 100mW uplink, a j pole antenna and auto channel selection i should be able to do an uplink of >50-60 miles quite safely
[22:07] <navrac2> hopinf all my bits turn up when i get back to england toi try it in anger
[22:08] <Jim3> would the NRX2 (the other half of the NTX2) be an option for uplink?
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander> not tested yet afaik
[22:09] <navrac2> im using the rfm22b's as it gives me frequency agility , the ability to use the model band at 458mhz and 10x the power output - and the receive sensitivity is better
[22:10] <Jim3> ic
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[22:11] <navrac2> oops lost the connection again
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[22:12] <navrac2> was just saying - the difficulty is with the receiver at height you pick up a lot of strong signals from the ground so you havce to scan for free frequencies and send down on the downlink which channel you are listening on
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[22:17] <Jim3> yes I suppose thats where the zigbee/BT transcivers win, but of course loose on range and power
[22:19] <navrac2> my current implementation is using the rfm to do rtty at 50 baud down on 432, then switch to 458 and do a quick channels scan then change back to 432 vto send down the channel then back to 458 to listen for 10 seconds
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[22:21] <navrac2> and at the groundstation end a scanner to decode the rtty and an rfm serial linked to the pc to send commends
[22:22] <Jim3> wow yea, i guess thats what it takes to find the free space
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[22:24] <Jim3> just been reading some of the specs of xbee modules on digi.com, is 868Mhz licence free for air->ground in the UK? (I'm aware of the imposed Duty Cycle) they claim 40k range on the PRO-868
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[22:25] <navrac2> 868 isnt strictly forbidden for aero use as far as i can see - but it isnt listed as one of the aero bands by ofcom
[22:25] <fsphil> 868 is allowed
[22:26] <fsphil> well this module I have is 869 mhz
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> yeah but watch the duty cycle
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> in germany it is 10% of the hour
[22:27] <navrac2> lets face it - the ofcom title for the frequencies we use is 'short range devices', I think some of the distances we've covered cant really be classed as being all that short...
[22:27] <Randomskk> yea but the law doesn't require them to be short range
[22:27] <Randomskk> the law does require certain power limits and duty cycles and use cases
[22:27] <navrac2> true
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[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> and it is fortunate that 434 MHz is ISM
[22:30] <Jim3> yea its fixed to 10% DC all over
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> ?! 10%
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> for 868 right?
[22:31] <Jim3> yea
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> but it allows higher power
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> 500 mW in germany
[22:31] <Jim3> I'm come from UAV's
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:31] <Jim3> we rulled out 868 becuase of the aweful DC
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> there is another thing that has 1% DC
[22:32] <fsphil> 868 is not good on the ground
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> 36 seconds
[22:32] <Jim3> but it might be ok in the context of HAB
[22:32] <fsphil> range seems quite limited
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> ridiculous
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> 2.4 GHz is allowed too
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> but all the WLAN around
[22:33] <navrac2> was trying to look up path loss vs frequency but the net is too slow here
[22:34] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil: UKube will use just 1 W right?
[22:34] <Lunar_Lander> the cubesat#
[22:34] <navrac2> from memory its the square of the freq
[22:34] <Jim3> 2.4 would need to be really powerfull to get any range tho?
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> the university of applied sciences had that for live video downlink
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> they made their own parabolic dishes
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> with a soup can where the LNB would be
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> but they had a HF lab to calibrate all the stuff
[22:36] <Laurenceb_> http://i.imgur.com/c2nrr.png
[22:36] <Lunar_Lander> damn
[22:36] <Lunar_Lander> the uni was in Muenster
[22:36] <Lunar_Lander> forgot to include that
[22:37] <Jim3> I think the world record for long range point to point wifi was from a HAB in Sweden iirc
[22:37] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:37] <Lunar_Lander> I think the current record for the NTX2 is Aarhus in denmark to a point near Lodz in Poland
[22:37] <Lunar_Lander> or who had the record on Apex Alpha?
[22:37] <Lunar_Lander> Upu?
[22:41] <Jim3> Swedish wifi balloon -> http://bit.ly/zDSVsa
[22:42] <Lunar_Lander> cool
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[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> hello to the north american section of UKHAS
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> hello nigelvh
[22:46] <nigelvh> Howdy
[22:46] <nigelvh> How's life over there?
[22:46] <Lunar_Lander> good, but a bit rainy
[22:46] <Lunar_Lander> and I just bit my tongue :(
[22:46] <Lunar_Lander> but otherwise it is good
[22:46] <Lunar_Lander> and yours?
[22:47] <nigelvh> Doing similarly over here, except the biting my tongue bit.
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:47] <nigelvh> After work I'm gonna go hang with a buddy of mine I haven't seen in a while. So that will be good. Otherwise just getting excited about heading down to Nevada in a few weeks to launch some rockets.
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[22:48] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[22:49] <Lunar_Lander> did you look into science rockets too btw?
[22:49] <nigelvh> science rockets?
[22:51] <CovBalloon> just catching up on the chat with reference to the xbee's have you looked at the XRF, which is a difference frequency but has a longer range
[22:52] <CovBalloon> much cheaper module too
[22:52] <Lunar_Lander> nigelvh: yeah
[22:52] <CovBalloon> just come back from our local HAM club where we were using home made 70cm yagi arrays to communicte with sats, going to build myself one tomorrow for a fiver
[22:52] <nigelvh> My experience with the XBees. 2.4GHz modules suck big time. The 900MHz "pro" modules work pretty good. We use them for wireless ground control of our rockets.
[22:53] <nigelvh> Lunar_Lander: What about science rockets? Are they rockets with science payloads in general, or are you talking about something specific?
[22:54] <Jim3> CovBalloon, are XRF's ok to use in the UK?
[22:54] <CovBalloon> yes, made in the uk fraction of the price, will get you a url
[22:54] <Lunar_Lander> one moment
[22:54] <Lunar_Lander> I'll looking for it
[22:54] <Lunar_Lander> btw Jim3 from where are you from?
[22:54] <Jim3> london
[22:55] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:55] <CovBalloon> http://shop.ciseco.co.uk/xrf-wireless-rf-radio-uart-rs232-serial-data-module-xbee-shape-arduino-pic-etc/
[22:55] <Lunar_Lander> nigelvh: like this http://www.sparkfun.com/news/283
[22:55] <Jim3> :)
[22:56] <Jim3> my (our) first HAB project is rapidly turning into a reality. I might even have to do some shopping soon :)
[22:56] <nigelvh> Oh, so you just mean rockets with sensors onboard. Yeah. All of our rockets have that. Much like the balloon system I did, I've helped with a rocket system we have. Baro pressure, accel, and pyro charges.
[22:57] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:57] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[22:57] <nigelvh> Sometimes the students decide they want to measure something extra, so we have an analog in as well. I think we've got a group this year putting a strain gauge on the body.
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[22:57] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:57] <Lunar_Lander> sounds good
[22:57] <Lunar_Lander> the vimeo video is funny
[22:58] <Lunar_Lander> did you watch it?
[22:58] <nigelvh> We downlink all that at 600 baud rtty.
[22:58] <Lunar_Lander> for me it sounds like someone shouts "Nicholas Cage" at liftoff
[22:58] <Lunar_Lander> cool
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[22:59] <nigelvh> Yeah, he does say nicholas cage. Also, our rockets are MUCH larger than those.
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[22:59] <nigelvh> Then again, they're in a parking lot.
[22:59] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:59] <Lunar_Lander> and you are in the desert
[22:59] <nigelvh> yes.
[22:59] <Lunar_Lander> here in Germany it is a bit difficult
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> model rocketry is open for everyone 18+ but only up to D motors
[23:00] <nigelvh> Ours average around 6 feet long, but some of our largest have been longer than 13 feet, and 8" in diameter.
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> above that or for multi-stage you need a T2 explosive license
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> *explosives
[23:01] <Jim3> CovBalloon *Gasp* at the XRF specs and price. The UAV crowd are going to love that. no mention of a DC although it's stil 868. 3k still isn't enough for HAB, but I think they are going on the shopping list anyway
[23:01] <nigelvh> Yeah, we have to be certified, but it's not a big deal.
[23:02] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:03] <nigelvh> if my server weren't down right now, I'd send you a link to a page with some pictures and whatnot.
[23:03] <nigelvh> Unfortunately, it is down right now.
[23:04] <nigelvh> Stupid server.
[23:04] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[23:04] <nigelvh> Remind me next time though and I'll send you some.
[23:05] <nigelvh> Everyone takes pictures, so at the end when we combine them we end up with tens of gigs of pictures and videos
[23:06] <Lunar_Lander> OK
[23:06] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[23:06] <nigelvh> Keeps seagate in business
[23:07] <nigelvh> I've got 6tb in drives on/in my mac alone.
[23:07] <nigelvh> Granted, some of that space is for backups.
[23:08] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:08] <nigelvh> Figure as an IT guy I should walk the talk and actually keep good backups.
[23:08] <nigelvh> A lot dont.
[23:09] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:09] <nigelvh> Anyway, it's a friday afternoon, and the servers here at work aren't on fire. So I'm going to escape while I can.
[23:10] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:10] <Lunar_Lander> :)
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[23:28] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Randall "Re: [UKHAS] XABEN-21 flight announcement."
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[23:37] <daveake> Cool :)
[23:37] <Upu> indeed
[23:38] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:38] <Lunar_Lander> hello Upu
[23:38] <Upu> evening Lunar
[23:39] <daveake> One of my customers is over where he launched, near Pershore and Wyre Piddle
[23:39] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[23:39] <Lunar_Lander> was that the margarine factory?
[23:40] <daveake> No, this one does labelling for food products
[23:40] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[23:41] <G0DJA> For low loss coaxial cable you probably need something like Ecoflex http://www.diodecomms.co.uk/download/CCeng.pdf
[23:41] <Lunar_Lander> hello G0DJA
[23:41] <G0DJA> Hi Lunar_Landar
[23:42] <G0DJA> Or, UR67 and put a preamp at the antenna end to overcome the losses
[23:42] <G0DJA> Sorry - Lunar_Lander
[23:43] <daveake> Yeah I hadn't before checked how lossy RG58 is. Quite surprising really.
[23:43] <Lunar_Lander> no problem
[23:43] <G0DJA> You should see what happens at 23cm with 'ordinary' coax. It ain't pretty...
[23:44] <G0DJA> I put 10W in one end of original UR67 and got 1W at the other end...
[23:45] <daveake> Also I had more cable than I needed. I did think of cutting it shorter and putting another plug on, but thought it wouldn't make much difference so I didn't bother/
[23:45] <daveake> wow
[23:45] <G0DJA> With the echoflex I did get about 8W at the other end
[23:45] <daveake> This radio stuff flies through the air quite efficiently - it's those last few metres down my dodgy wire that kill it :p
[23:46] <G0DJA> pre-amp with a low noise figure and a few dB of gain will make a big fifference
[23:46] <Upu> I'm going to try some low loss stuff next time
[23:46] <gonzo_> if you are rx only, use a preamp as close to the antenna as practical, then you can use pretty much any coax
[23:46] <Upu> I think I have a run of about 11 meters
[23:46] <G0DJA> difference - even
[23:46] <gonzo_> I use miles of CT100 sat tv coax for rx feeds
[23:47] <Upu> RG21
[23:47] <G0DJA> Sat TV is OK as it's designed for about 1GHz down to the receiver
[23:47] <daveake> Mine was 25m of RG58. Over 10dB loss right there.
[23:47] <Upu> is it RG21 ?
[23:48] <Upu> 213u
[23:48] <gonzo_> on my S band (2.4ghz) rx antenna there is about 20mtrs of sat tv cable, but lots of preamp at the antenna
[23:48] <gonzo_> on the L band feeds it's close on 30mtrs
[23:49] <Upu> that Ecoflex stuff isn't bad
[23:49] <Upu> I'm probably loosing about 1.7dbs on my run
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[23:49] <G0DJA> Thinking of turning the current Yagi vertical and using a second one, with better coax, horizontal for 'normal' Amateur Radio use
[23:52] <Upu> wow Ecoflex 15 is £5.89 a meter
[23:52] <daveake> Wow indeed
[23:53] <Upu> think I'll stick with WestFlex W103 its thinner anyway
[23:53] <daveake> yep. And £1-50 or so a metre
[23:53] <Upu> anyone needs some of that I'll go halves
[23:53] <G0DJA> Managed Lithuania on 50W CW with this antann as 'best DX' so far
[23:53] <G0DJA> anttenna - even
[23:54] <G0DJA> On 70cm that was - Poland on 23cm with the 10W
[23:55] <G0DJA> The other problem with ecoflex is cost of the connectors - cheaper than new Andrews though
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[23:56] <G0DJA> OK - bed time here - collecting grand-daughter in the morning for the weekend
[23:57] <Upu> nn
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[00:00] --- Sat Feb 25 2012