highaltitude.log.20120222

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[00:16] <MLow-werk> Pretty dead in here
[00:19] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[08:50] <eroomde> moring
[08:50] <daveake> mooring
[08:50] <SpeedEvil> ""
[08:52] <eroomde> there is a comedy photo floating around at cambridge
[08:53] <eroomde> which is a moorhen on a riverbank by one of the colleges nonchelantly walking infront of a sign saying 'no mooring'
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[08:54] <daveake> :)
[08:55] <fsphil> the world needs more ornithological humour
[08:56] <SpeedEvil> I remember a similar one of a couple of birds on a birdtable, with some girls in the background.
[08:56] <SpeedEvil> I think I don't need to explain the type of bird.
[08:58] <fsphil> good old Parus major
[08:59] <eroomde> hopefully will finish the design of my wee flight computer today
[08:59] <eroomde> this is the objective
[08:59] <fsphil> I may make a really big board just to balance out all this miniaturisation
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[09:00] <eroomde> veryboard and wirewrap huh
[09:00] <eroomde> wirewrap is actually by some margin the best circuit construction technique for reliability, thermal cycling, and robustness
[09:00] <eroomde> so would be perfect for a hab flight computer
[09:01] <eroomde> cos you get a much much higher contact pressure between the wire and the compoonent leg than you do with solder
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[09:01] <eroomde> and you get far more flexibility in thermal cycling as the legs just flex and bend slightly
[09:01] <eroomde> rather than in surface mount where there is no give at all and having passives just detach from the fibreglass substrate is not uncommon
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[09:03] Nick change: daveake_ -> daveake
[09:03] <fsphil> we need flexible solder
[09:06] <eroomde> that'd be good
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[09:54] <cuddykid> sarantel antennas - out for delivery :D
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[10:04] <Blackover> Hello!
[10:05] <Blackover> I've got a problem
[10:05] <Blackover> with arduino programming
[10:06] <CovBalloon> ?
[10:06] <Blackover> uint8_t data = "Data to send";
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[10:07] <Blackover> and
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[10:08] <Blackover> float flat, flon;
[10:08] <Blackover> gps.f_get_position(&flat, &flon, &fix_age);
[10:08] <cuddykid> what's wrong with the last 2?
[10:09] <cuddykid> have you included tiny gps library?
[10:09] <Blackover> how to: data = flat + " "+ flon&
[10:09] <fsphil> you're assigning a string to an integer in that first one
[10:09] <Blackover> Yes, TinyGPS
[10:09] <Blackover> and RFM22
[10:10] <fsphil> (well, an array of characters)
[10:10] <cuddykid> data = flat + " "+ flon& <- not sure what you're trying to do?
[10:10] <fsphil> you can't append strings like that in C
[10:10] <cuddykid> are you trying to just print out flat then flon?
[10:10] <fsphil> well, maybe C++? I'm not familiar with that enough
[10:10] <jonsowman> you need to use sprintf
[10:10] <Blackover> in Arduino IDE?
[10:11] <cuddykid> yeah
[10:11] <cuddykid> it's just C (or C++)
[10:11] <jonsowman> also you need data to be a char array rather than a single char, and make sure it's long enough for the data you're writing to it
[10:11] <jonsowman> sprintf can't deal with floats though
[10:11] <Blackover> I just want send GPS data via RFM22b module and have 2 libraries
[10:12] <Blackover> TinyGPS and RF22
[10:13] <cuddykid> yes, you need to use sprintf
[10:13] <jonsowman> there is some work involved in parsing data and formatting it properly
[10:13] <cuddykid> to pop the values into a string - then you can send that
[10:13] <jonsowman> indeed, or at least as close to a string as you get in C
[10:14] <daveake> You need to use the tinygps library to get the GPS data, then you need to convert the individual floats to strings using dtostrf, then use sprintf to combine those and any integer values (altitude etc) to a string. Finally, assuming this is rtty, you need to run through that string a bit at a time changing the rfm22b frequency as you go
[10:14] <daveake> You have 30 minutes you may start now :D
[10:14] <cuddykid> lol
[10:15] <daveake> Sorry, I meant "days" :)
[10:15] <jonsowman> should take 10 mins
[10:15] <jonsowman> ;)
[10:15] <Blackover> ^to convert the individual floats to strings using dtostrf, then use sprintf to combine those and any integer values (altitude etc) to a string
[10:15] <fsphil> that's it
[10:15] <Blackover> function in Ardiuono IDE String would be enough?
[10:16] <jonsowman> dtostrf is in stdlib.h
[10:16] <jonsowman> so include that and you're fine
[10:16] <Blackover> http://arduino.cc/en/Reference/StringConstructor
[10:17] <daveake> Sorry don't understand. The IDE is nothing to do with it. You have C/C++ and libraries. The Arduino sprintf library doesn't understand floats, and rather than fix that (possible) it's better to us dtostr prior to using sprintf
[10:17] <jonsowman> the sprintf version with floats is massive
[10:17] <jonsowman> relatively
[10:17] <fsphil> yea
[10:17] <jonsowman> not worth it
[10:17] <daveake> yep. nope
[10:18] <fsphil> pain trying to enable it too
[10:18] <cuddykid> floats are just annoying
[10:18] <jonsowman> i did it once then decided it was a stupid idea
[10:18] <daveake> :)
[10:18] <jonsowman> i believe you can get data out of tinyGPS in a non-float format?
[10:18] <jonsowman> i've never tried it, perhaps an option?
[10:19] <daveake> DUnno - I do my own parsing.
[10:19] <jonsowman> daveake: yeah the only NMEA parsing I've done I wrote myself
[10:19] <fsphil> I read them out as two integers on mine
[10:19] <daveake> Done it before on other projects so just went with what I knew
[10:19] <number10> you could parse the GPS data yourself and not use tynygps - like the people who use pics do
[10:19] <fsphil> it does open the potential for the padding and negative bugs though!
[10:19] <jonsowman> http://arduiniana.org/libraries/tinygps/
[10:20] <jonsowman> you can get data out of it as uint32s
[10:20] <daveake> Get those in the formatting anyway
[10:20] Action: daveake hides in corner
[10:20] <jonsowman> yeah i'm not sure which is realistically better or easier
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[10:21] <jonsowman> just another thing to perhaps consider
[10:23] <eroomde> just make sure you can handle leading zeros and minus signs Blackover
[10:23] <Blackover> LIKE: long latitude, longitude; gps.get_position( &latitude, &longitude, &fix_age); String_to_Send = String(latitude); String_to_Send += " "; String_to_Send += String(longitude);
[10:23] <eroomde> pastebin is good for snippets of code
[10:24] <eroomde> it's generally frowned upon (rightly, because it's unreadable) to paste code sirectly into irc
[10:24] <eroomde> directly*
[10:24] <eroomde> so instead paste in pastebin and put the pastebin link in irc
[10:25] <cuddykid> Blackover: I don't think you can append strings like that
[10:25] <cuddykid> you need to use sprintf
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[10:27] <eroomde> Blackover: you might be used to languages where you can do that kind of thing, like javascript or python or bash, and it just seems to magically work because it looks about right and ot seems to know what you want to do
[10:27] <eroomde> well, C is annoyingly not like that, at all
[10:27] <Laurenceb> thats the advantage of c
[10:27] <cuddykid> :)
[10:28] <eroomde> in some situations yes
[10:28] <Laurenceb> eroomde, Randomskk.. anyone else, some questions on gps sdr
[10:28] <Laurenceb> is MMCX or SMA preferred?
[10:28] <Laurenceb> also, 0.1" SWD/JTAG header or 0.05" j-link style one?
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[10:30] <Darkside> Laurenceb: SMA
[10:30] <Laurenceb> heh i didnt ask you XD
[10:31] <Darkside> hah
[10:31] <Darkside> well SMA is easier to deal with
[10:31] <Darkside> and will last longer
[10:31] <Laurenceb> ok
[10:31] <_Hix> that tinygps library looks helpful - I'm in the process of learning c++ at the moment (and c#)
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[10:32] <cuddykid> _Hix: yeah, I find it helpful - do you know C well?
[10:32] <_Hix> Nope - I'm a pleb at OEP
[10:33] <cuddykid> OEP? - start with C before going to C++ (i think that is the general consensus)
[10:34] <_Hix> object oriented programming - I'll look more closely at C then
[10:34] <daveake> And after you've learnt C, choose something other than C++ :)
[10:34] <number10> stay with C
[10:34] <SpeedEvil> BCPL
[10:35] <LazyLeopard> Smalltalk
[10:35] <daveake> BCP - that's a blast from the past
[10:35] <cuddykid> pascal
[10:35] <daveake> BCPL
[10:36] <cuddykid> then learn BASIC& actually, don't.. :P
[10:36] Action: LazyLeopard remembers the mind-boggling choice of languages back in the late 70s...
[10:37] <eroomde> choose a nice OO language
[10:37] <LazyLeopard> BASIC, BCPL, FORTRAN...
[10:37] <eroomde> like python
[10:37] <eroomde> then flirt with something functional like haskell
[10:37] <eroomde> then choose a language that also lets you use functional paradigms
[10:37] <eroomde> like python again
[10:37] <eroomde> then ascend into heaven
[10:37] <eroomde> via lisp
[10:38] <number10> youll need 64k to do python on embedded
[10:38] <eroomde> oh embedded?
[10:38] <eroomde> oh right
[10:38] <natrium> eroomde: have you launched a lisp balloon?
[10:38] <eroomde> ignore all the above
[10:38] <LazyLeopard> ...or just get down and dirty, say to hell with all this high level stuff, and dive into the bits and bytes with an assembler of one kind or another. ;)
[10:38] <eroomde> natrium: would be cool tho
[10:39] <eroomde> a floating lisp machine
[10:39] <Laurenceb> or just code in binary thumb2
[10:39] <natrium> yeah :)
[10:39] <Laurenceb> its not too hard to learn
[10:39] <eroomde> I think C++ would be an excellent embedded language actually
[10:39] <eroomde> as i spose arduino somewhat shows
[10:39] Action: LazyLeopard whistles o/~ God writes in lisp code o/~
[10:39] <eroomde> just for the encapsulation and inheritance
[10:40] <cuddykid> yeah, start at the core with binary then move to assembler then C&etc
[10:40] <eroomde> no nheed to go near anything like the stl
[10:40] <cuddykid> has anyone learnt Obj C here?
[10:40] <natrium> C++? why not A++?
[10:40] <_Hix> I'm trying to learn C# with an aim to do some .net stuff and the arduino appeared on my radar so then I added c++ as i use visual studio
[10:40] Nick change: natrium -> natrium42
[10:43] <_Hix> the only problem is I'm trying to do this whilst working 50 hours a week on a computer all day
[10:43] <eroomde> too much computer not good
[10:43] <_Hix> difficult to get the inspiration after 12 hours staring at a CAD screen
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[10:44] <number10> you must be self employed or your boss has nor heard of the working time directive
[10:44] <number10> not
[10:44] <_Hix> S.E
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[10:49] <eroomde> when you're self employed the European Working Time Directive is an euphemism for 'wife'
[10:49] <daveake> sooo true
[10:50] <_Hix> :D
[10:51] <natrium42> eroomde: then find me one!
[10:51] <natrium42> my work hours are all messed up
[10:54] <eroomde> you're in california aren't you?
[10:54] <eroomde> there are girls there
[10:55] <eroomde> maybe not in mountain view or palo alto, but other places
[10:55] <natrium42> lol ^
[10:55] <natrium42> stanford undergrad girls are too strange for me
[10:56] <eroomde> s/strage/young
[10:56] <natrium42> dude no, we get older but the girls stay the same age ;)
[10:56] Nick change: Laurenceb -> pedobear_
[10:56] <natrium42> :O
[10:56] <pedobear_> its so true
[10:57] <natrium42> eroomde: in the day they are very closed, in the night they are too slutty
[10:57] <eroomde> look who you are getting affirmation from
[10:57] <natrium42> i wanna go to europe
[10:57] <natrium42> or former soviet union
[10:57] Nick change: pedobear_ -> Laurenceb
[10:59] <natrium42> my last GF was 5 years younger than me
[10:59] <natrium42> not a huge diff
[10:59] <number10> thats not a problem if you are at least 21
[11:00] <natrium42> eroomde: will you go to armenia with me?
[11:00] <eroomde> no
[11:00] <natrium42> :'(
[11:00] <eroomde> trafficing is illegal
[11:00] <natrium42> lol
[11:01] <natrium42> i think i should get back to work :P
[11:01] <eroomde> or bewd
[11:01] <eroomde> bed*
[11:02] <natrium42> it's only 3 am
[11:02] <eroomde> in the name of sanitising working hours
[11:02] <natrium42> yeah, but i won't be able to fall asleep
[11:02] <natrium42> so what's the use..
[11:03] <natrium42> maybe i should just skip one night
[11:03] <natrium42> and get back on schedule that way
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[11:10] <_Hix> cuddykid did you order that 936 solder station?
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[11:16] <_Hix> <jonsowman> looking back through the conv thread when you referred to tinygps and said about uint32 is that an unsigned int?
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[11:17] <daveake> u = unsigned
[11:17] <jonsowman> _Hix: yep
[11:17] <jonsowman> unsigned 32 bit integer
[11:18] <jonsowman> "unsigned long int" in wordy terms
[11:19] <_Hix> ahh I'm getting there then - slowly picking up bits, just need to owrk out how to string it all together. not in a "string" obviously :p
[11:19] <number10> strcat(;)
[11:22] <kokey> love you long int time
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[11:45] <natrium42> user terminated
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[11:48] <Laurenceb> see arduino users have their 4x4 led arrays
[11:48] <Laurenceb> stm32 has http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQd6UJSiBaQ
[11:48] <_Hix> http://www.maartenlamers.com/nmea/ might be of use for some of you guys out there that understand it - seems to be for the http://wiring.org.co/ boards not arduino
[11:50] <zyp> Laurenceb, I've controlled a 16x16 led matrix with avr
[11:59] <kokey> I wonder if I should get an arduino, arduino clone, or something else
[11:59] <kokey> though I'm fairly keen on something atmega
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[12:00] <kokey> I'm pretty comfortable coding in C so I don't think I'm after much abstraction on the software side
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[12:16] <The-Compiler> kokey: get an Arduino, use it as an ATMega :P
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[12:20] <kokey> what are the UK laws controlling launching something steerable?
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[12:27] <Laurenceb> uavs outside visible range need licensing
[12:28] <Laurenceb> but its what constitutes a uav
[12:28] <_Hix> http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/public/index.php%3Foption=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=3&Itemid=10.html should point you in right direction
[12:29] <Laurenceb> i dont see why a directional parachute is a uav
[12:29] <Laurenceb> especially if its unpowered
[12:30] <zyp> well, it's some kind of vehicle
[12:30] <zyp> and it's both unmanned and aerial
[12:31] <Laurenceb> so is a payload
[12:33] <chris_99> as long as its don't doing anything harmful i can't see why anyone would care too much
[12:33] <_Hix> isnt it technically space junk falling back down :)
[12:34] <chris_99> sorry that spelling was terrible. s/don't/not
[12:35] <chris_99> and yeah :)
[12:36] <eroomde> despite having played with sd cards plenty of times before, it just occured to me that i have no idea about their power consumption vs activity
[12:37] <eroomde> does anyone know what kind of current they pull if they're not activated (with CS)?
[12:37] <daveake> No idea ... never measured it myself either. I suspect "very little"
[12:39] <eroomde> it's the number for that i'm after
[12:39] <eroomde> i don't want it sitting there pulling 5mA when idle
[12:40] <daveake> Sounds like a job for some measuring equipment then :)
[12:40] <eroomde> but if i can get away without a fet to turn it on and off with the atmega, all the better
[12:41] <daveake> http://forum.delorme.com/viewtopic.php?f=181&t=25112
[12:41] <daveake> "Lexar states standby current at less than 100µA for their SD cards. "
[12:42] <eroomde> links dead tolexar but i'll try and find it manually for their current gen of parts
[12:44] <eroomde> ok
[12:44] <eroomde> i am happy enough now
[12:45] <eroomde> aqll the peripherals on this design have 'soft' configurable low poer modes
[12:45] <eroomde> so none need power switches
[12:45] <eroomde> which is much nicer
[12:45] <Laurenceb> eroomde: up to 60ma or so
[12:45] <Laurenceb> but <1ma with no activity
[12:46] <Laurenceb> eroomde: im going for sma connector on the gps stick
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[12:48] <eroomde> Laurenceb: cool
[12:48] <eroomde> thanks
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[12:51] <Laurenceb> ill have to see if its possible to stream raw 4Msps data
[12:52] <Laurenceb> im pretty sure itd work with custom usb code, seeing as at90usb has bone 1.2MByte/sec with usb-serial
[12:52] <Laurenceb> but i havent seen any benchmarks for stm32 usb-serial code, and having it mount as a serial device would be really neat
[12:53] <Laurenceb> maple gets <1, but its rather bloated
[12:53] <Laurenceb> *done
[12:53] <Laurenceb> arg dyslexia
[12:54] <eroomde> daily sex
[12:54] <NigeyS> lol
[12:55] <Laurenceb> you could also have it accept some commands to go to sleep mode, turn on/off active ant support, adjust front end bandwidth etc
[12:57] <Laurenceb> of course this isnt the point, i want SDR GPS XD
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[13:10] <daveake> Ah, the postman only knocks once, but when he does he's carrying an FT790R :)
[13:11] <fsphil> sweeeet
[13:11] <daveake> I see the DC socket has -ve centre pole. Nice
[13:12] <fsphil> yea, well spotted.
[13:12] <daveake> Shall have to find a PSU to butcher :)
[13:12] <fsphil> I was warned by someone here, otherwise I would have powered it up backwards
[13:12] <daveake> That would be bad
[13:13] <daveake> CPC should bring some C cells later
[13:13] <fsphil> they last for ages
[13:13] <fsphil> more than enough for a chase
[13:14] <daveake> Also got some guy rope screw-in things (as sold to tie your dog to the ground)
[13:15] <fsphil> I have to wait until friday before I can try the maplin pole
[13:15] <fsphil> it's more than sturdy enough for both yagis I think
[13:16] <eroomde> UpuWork Upu are the breakout boards for sale yet?
[13:16] <Upu> sure they are for sale
[13:16] <Upu> when they turn up :/
[13:16] <eroomde> grand
[13:16] <eroomde> oh
[13:16] <eroomde> that was what i was asking really :)
[13:16] <eroomde> any idea eta?
[13:17] <Upu> no idea
[13:17] <daveake> I see the charge socket has +ve tip. Obviously someone was trying to confuse :p
[13:17] <Upu> getting annoying :)
[13:17] <fsphil> this is what happens when you hire monkeys to make pcbs
[13:17] <UpuWork> see what you did there
[13:17] <UpuWork> its normally 2 weeks
[13:17] <UpuWork> oh fsphil
[13:17] <UpuWork> 80/20 trial accepted goes live tommorrow
[13:18] <fsphil> you git lol
[13:18] <fsphil> anywhere to sign up or is it all private?
[13:18] <fsphil> there's no mention of it on my isp pages
[13:18] <UpuWork> Entanet
[13:18] <UpuWork> who are you with ?
[13:19] <fsphil> aaisp
[13:19] <UpuWork> give them a call ask if you can be put on the BT 80Mb fibre test
[13:20] <fsphil> will do
[13:21] Action: daveake grumbles quiely
[13:21] <Laurenceb> http://www.nxp.com/products/microcontrollers/cortex_m4/lpc4300/#overview
[13:25] <UpuWork> its funny daveake but when I told the lads at work I could get an 80Mb pipe did they congratulate me on being lucky enough to be in an area covered ? No they called me a wanker
[13:25] <daveake> :D
[13:26] <UpuWork> Mind you i did make thrusting motions towards them going "suck on my phat pipe" which probably didn't help
[13:26] <daveake> lol
[13:27] <SamSilver_> pipe envy can get mean
[13:27] <_Hix> jealous - i'm on ~1.8Mbit at home
[13:28] <_Hix> on a good day
[13:28] <daveake> We were slow to get ADSl and slow to get ISDN before that. When I ordered ISDN, the BT guy turned up and installed the box here, then went off to the exchange where he found ... no ISDN equipment whatsoever.
[13:28] <kokey> I don't really care about my pipe speed at home
[13:28] <kokey> probably because I tend to work where there's a lot of bandwidth
[13:28] <UpuWork> i don't care about it now
[13:28] <kokey> so whatever I have at home will pale in comparison
[13:28] <kokey> nowadays as long as we can stream HD, that's enough
[13:29] <daveake> Took BT 6 weeks to get the exchange sorted, during which time we were officially "without a service. The compensation came to near £500.
[13:29] <UpuWork> nice
[13:29] <UpuWork> bt actually paid up ?
[13:29] <daveake> Yep
[13:29] <UpuWork> Technically they owe me £1000's the company anyway
[13:29] <kokey> a phone company paid me with a cheque once
[13:29] <daveake> So basically that paid for the installation and 18 months rental
[13:29] <kokey> but wouldn't accept their own cheque as payment for a bill
[13:30] <daveake> Before ASDL we had a shared satellite connection (one house in the village had the satellite kit and the rest shared via wifi)
[13:31] <daveake> ADSL is fine. We get about 4Mbps which is enough, just, for the TV to run iPlayer in HD
[13:32] <_Hix> how much is satellite broadband?
[13:32] <daveake> Well it was shared and I think we paid £25/month each
[13:33] <_Hix> hmm sticking with the hamster wheel then. Unless anyone can vouch for the quality of BT Infinity - heard lots of bd stuff not much good stuff
[13:34] <Randomskk> la la la http://www.speedtest.net/result/1786185930.png
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[13:35] <UpuWork> tbh _Hix compared to what I had the fibre products are rock solid
[13:36] <_Hix> so Infinity could be worth it then?
[13:37] <UpuWork> never looked back
[13:37] <UpuWork> compared to my old crappy constantly disconnecting 1Mb connection
[13:37] <UpuWork> I think its dropped twice in 6 months
[13:38] <UpuWork> and the upload is great if you work from home
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[13:40] <_Hix> sheisters - ~21 March 2012
[13:40] <UpuWork> if you're really lucky you'll be in a FTTP area
[13:40] <_Hix> working from home - the holy grail - if only
[13:41] <_Hix> any way of finding out?
[13:41] <Randomskk> bt infinity website will tell you iirc
[13:41] <UpuWork> pm me your land line number
[13:42] <cuddykid> _Hix: yeah - I ordered the 29 euro one - has yours arrived yet?
[13:42] <_Hix> No :/ DPD have it "SOmewhere"
[13:42] <cuddykid> oh :( do you get a tracking number?
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[13:43] <UpuWork> lucky _hix :)
[13:43] <_Hix> cuddykid Got to be better than the shite old thing I have currently - tracking number is invalid, still I'm away working till weekend so no massive hurry
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[13:44] <cuddykid> ahh ok
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[13:44] <cuddykid> I'm awaiting a UPS order
[13:45] <cuddykid> err, what - looked on the tracking details and it says "delivered" ?! It certainly has not been delivered
[13:45] <cuddykid> ahh, I bet they've left it at reception
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[13:59] <_Hix> cuddykid - from Wiltec?
[13:59] <_Hix> or is that the farnell thing
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[14:11] <cuddykid> _Hix: nah, from Richardsons (free Sarantels)
[14:11] <cuddykid> Wiltec is DPD
[14:12] <cuddykid> and picking up from RS tomorrow :)
[14:13] <_Hix> ah same as - not sure where it is though - said 2-3 working days 6 days ago
[14:13] <cuddykid> oh no :(
[14:13] <cuddykid> all i've got so far is an invoice
[14:13] <_Hix> still as Guinness said - best things come to those who wait
[14:14] <_Hix> Can't use it until weekend so not too drastic - then i get to wreck some delicate electronics :)
[14:14] <cuddykid> yar :P
[14:14] <cuddykid> I'm waiting on my pcbs from china
[14:15] <cuddykid> can't really do anything until they arrive
[14:17] <_Hix> Bugger - just checked again - only picked up last night. Hence it wasn't showing until now
[14:17] <cuddykid> ahh, that will explain it :P
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[14:17] <cuddykid> _Hix: how did you find out the tracking number?
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[14:19] <_Hix> email from wiltec titled: Ihre DPD Sendung / Your DPD Shipment / Votre Envoi
[14:20] <_Hix> thinking about it - it'll probably quicker coming from germland than arsing around in blighty
[14:21] <cuddykid> ahh, I await that email :D - yeah, I guess it will be over fast, if not already in the country
[14:21] <daveake> Xmas part II ... DSO :-)
[14:22] <cuddykid> they ship the items so quick now a days
[14:22] <cuddykid> yay - flatmate had the UPS shipment, once again, massive packaging overkill! - What's up with these big companies sending tiny samples in huge boxes?!?
[14:23] <_Hix> Going back to earlier talk - if I learn C++ then it should be ok for programming arduino stuff? Also If I'm looking at .NET stuff then C# shouldn't be too difficult to master after getting to grips with ++ no?
[14:23] <fsphil> c# is quite different from c and c++
[14:23] <cuddykid> _Hix: C is the easiest way to program arduino stuff
[14:23] <fsphil> arduino uses c++
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[14:24] <_Hix> I heard the other day that in Germland to can remove the packaging in store give it to the store and it goes back to the company and has to be recycled AT the companie's expense
[14:24] <cuddykid> lol
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[14:24] <_Hix> my typing is shocking these days
[14:24] <cuddykid> wow - under 48hrs later, I have the antennas in my hand all the way from nevada! :D
[14:25] <_Hix> that'll help with learning to code...
[14:25] <_Hix> WOW! Schnell!!!
[14:25] <fsphil> I have an image of cuddykid just sitting in a room with packages falling down around him
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[14:26] <_Hix> :D
[14:26] <chris_99> wow cuddykid, what carrier was that with
[14:26] <_Hix> shiny stuff in the post is good
[14:26] <cuddykid> chris_99: UPS - they're very good
[14:26] <cuddykid> also DHL did a similar service before
[14:27] <chris_99> yeah i've had something from china in 3/4 days i think it was using ups
[14:27] <_Hix> what's the charge for 48 from US?
[14:27] <cuddykid> fsphil: lol, you're right - I have so many packages, filling up my room!
[14:27] <cuddykid> _Hix: not sure, company paid for it, I guess it would be a lot though ~ $30
[14:27] <_Hix> Cina has been good for me in the past - mostly ebay little bits but ~3-4 days
[14:28] <cuddykid> china ebay stuff is usually quite good
[14:28] <_Hix> hmm - too much to avoid the dreaded VAT and Duty +"Handling" charge
[14:31] <cuddykid> pic.twitter.com/pX9C2Qn0
[14:31] <cuddykid> lazylink -> http://pic.twitter.com/pX9C2Qn0
[14:35] <cuddykid> I've always thought this would be disastrous and reasonably easy (relatively of course) to implement -> http://news.sky.com/home/politics/article/16174817
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[14:56] <_Hix> found this - dunno if it's a quick and easy idea for camera control
[14:57] <_Hix> http://elmelectronics.com/DSheets/ELM307DS.pdf
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[15:06] <Anasule> Hello
[15:06] <eroomde> hello
[15:07] <kokey> Hello
[15:07] <Anasule> Anyone here from UK who has launched baloons before/
[15:07] <kokey> me, but only if you count rather low altitude and attached to a fishing line and reel
[15:09] <Anasule> Maybe you can help im looking for info on who you contact before sending a baloon up and what you need permission, baloon licence?
[15:09] <russss> Anasule: have you read http://ukhas.org.uk/general:beginners_guide_to_high_altitude_ballooning?
[15:09] <SpeedEvil> You need to apply for permission to launch from the CAA in advance.
[15:10] <eroomde> Anasule: loads of people on here have launched balloons lots of times before
[15:10] <eroomde> you have come to exactly the right bit of the internet
[15:10] <Anasule> @russss ive read alot of sites but they keep talking about FAA and thats american i havent read much of ukhas i find it hard to navigate
[15:11] <eroomde> ukhas is the place
[15:11] <eroomde> that said
[15:11] <eroomde> but ask questions on here too
[15:11] <eroomde> just read the faq first
[15:11] <eroomde> personally don't mind answering questions as long as they're not on the ukhas faq as I am prone to rsi
[15:19] <Anasule> Ok eroomde maybe you can help with this on this site http://www.cusf.co.uk/calc/ it gives figures like neck lift and as i understand it you fill the baloon with helium until the baloon reaches the neck lift is any of this information "Launch Volume: 0.72 m3 717 L 25.3 ft3" telling me how much helium is required to reach that neck lift?
[15:20] <daveake> 0.72 cubic metres - that's the volume
[15:20] <Anasule> so 0.72 cubic meters of helium
[15:20] <daveake> You buy according to the volume but you measure by neck lift
[15:23] <eroomde> the volume is at sea level pressure and temperature
[15:23] <eroomde> and that's how helium isusually sold
[15:23] <eroomde> so for ouxample you might buy/rent a 3 cubic m bottle of helium from a party shop
[15:25] <Anasule> But all the helium i can find is in 30, 60, 100, 120, 250 and 500L containers so do i need 717L ?
[15:26] <Laurenceb> nice
[15:26] <eroomde> link us to what you've found
[15:26] Action: Laurenceb has 2Mbyte/sec write working to uSD
[15:26] <Laurenceb> with stm32f1
[15:26] <eroomde> it's possible that litres in that context means compressed litres
[15:26] <Anasule> Liquid helium (LHe) is available in 30, 60, 100, 120, 250 and 500L super vacuum-insulated cryogenic containers.
[15:26] <eroomde> lol
[15:27] <eroomde> you want the gas
[15:27] <eroomde> :o)
[15:27] <Anasule> Ah ok
[15:27] <eroomde> so from party shop suppliers, say
[15:27] <Anasule> I thought there was some crazy maths to convert the liquid to gas etc
[15:27] <eroomde> nah
[15:27] <eroomde> usually you just buy compressed gas bottles
[15:28] <Anasule> But the shop ones say "Inflates 30 ballons of 9inch" etc and i have no way of knowing if thats 0.72m3 either
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[15:29] <SpeedEvil> Of course you do
[15:30] <SpeedEvil> What is the volume of a sphere with a diameter of 9 inches?
[15:30] <SpeedEvil> Multiply this by 30, job done.
[15:30] <Anasule> Lo( i dont know
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[15:30] <eroomde> ignore what the shop reckon
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[15:31] <SpeedEvil> Google how to work out the diameter of the spheres.
[15:31] <eroomde> ask them what the bottles actually are
[15:31] <Anasule> "Capacity: 0.25 Cu mts Pack of 3" this seems better
[15:31] <SpeedEvil> But that too
[15:31] <eroomde> what markings are on them, what pressure they are
[15:31] <eroomde> Anasule: where abouts in the uk are you based?
[15:31] <Anasule> West Midlands, Birmingham
[15:33] <daveake> Handy table http://balloonhelium.co.uk/main/pricing
[15:34] <Anasule> Thanks :o)
[15:35] <HixXChat> wow - they're much cheaper than BOC
[15:36] <Anasule> Im thinking that to
[15:36] <Anasule> Cheaper than everything ive found
[15:37] <daveake> You don't get a good price direct with BOC unless you buy lots. These are the cheapest I've found.
[15:37] <HixXChat> bookmarked!
[15:37] <Anasule> Same thanks daveake
[15:38] <chris_99> generally would the medium one be enough daveake?
[15:38] <daveake> That's what I use mostly
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[15:38] <SpeedEvil> you get a bit more than a kilo per cubic meter.
[15:38] <daveake> Depends of course on balloon size, payload weight, and what you're trying to do
[15:38] <SpeedEvil> Total lift
[15:39] <Anasule> How long do people aim for a high altitude baloon with a camera to have as a flight time ive seen the 4-5 meters per second climb and 4 meters per second decent values but time wise whats a good flight time to aim for?
[15:42] <daveake> 4m/s ascent risks the balloon floating. 5 is good. Depending on altitude the ascent time will be 2 hours give or take half an hour
[15:44] <HixXChat> Am i right in that for >5m/s you are sacrificing altitude by overfilling/stretching the balloon [if sized to payload]
[15:44] <Anasule> Slower ascent rate is highter altitude on the calculator but its also alot more drift
[15:45] <daveake> Yeah, more gas means it goes up faster but bursts at a lower altitude
[15:45] <daveake> But when ascent is low then the balloon may run out of lift and float at a lower altitude
[15:45] <daveake> Some flights aim for that but generally you want to avoid it
[15:46] <Anasule> I want it to pretty much go straight up dont mind driving to get it but i dont want to take a plane :o)
[15:46] <daveake> Needed Eurotunnel on one of mine
[15:47] <Anasule> Is there a weight limit for uk like FA has 1/4 Lbs
[15:47] <Anasule> FAA*
[15:48] <Anasule> @daveake got any pictures :o)
[15:48] <daveake> of what?
[15:49] <Anasule> Your baloon
[15:49] <daveake> www.daveakerman.com
[15:50] <daveake> Also see the projects page on ukhas. Lots of people have written up their projects
[15:51] <Anasule> I wish i knew enough about electronics to make a little tracker like yours :o)
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[15:53] <Anasule> Thanks for the help be back later o/
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[15:58] <cuddykid> yes - seeed studio order has been shipped :D
[16:00] <chris_99> how long do seeedstudio tend to take from the time you order to receiving it
[16:00] <HixXChat> :D more deliveries then cuddykid...
[16:01] <cuddykid> indeed! waiting for pcb, soldering station, isp programmer, RS stuff, APM2& I think that's it :P
[16:01] <daveake> 5 deliveries here today :)
[16:02] Action: cuddykid still can't match daveake!
[16:02] <daveake> :D
[16:02] <cuddykid> daveake: have you won the lottery or something?!
[16:02] <daveake> Not all HAB stuff
[16:03] <Randomskk> this is the worst package ever
[16:04] <Randomskk> https://randomskk.net/u/supernemo.png
[16:04] <Randomskk> the little pads are .35 by .35 mm :(
[16:04] <daveake> blimey
[16:05] <cuddykid> is solder wick a must?
[16:05] <Randomskk> yea
[16:05] <Laurenceb> wtf is that
[16:05] <Randomskk> making the footprint was a pain, routing it is going to be a pain, soldering it is going to be the worst
[16:05] <Randomskk> Laurenceb: an LNA + filter
[16:06] <Laurenceb> what for?
[16:06] <Randomskk> gps
[16:06] <Randomskk> https://randomskk.net/u/wombat.pdf
[16:06] <Laurenceb> hmmm
[16:06] <Laurenceb> are you sure it need sit?
[16:07] <Randomskk> http://uk.farnell.com/avago-technologies/alm-1712-blkg/filter-front-end-lna-gps-12mcob/dp/1865149
[16:07] <Randomskk> no
[16:07] <Randomskk> almost certainly don't
[16:07] <Randomskk> but it looks like fun
[16:08] <cuddykid> another purchase - solder wick :P
[16:08] <UpuWork> thats essential
[16:08] <cuddykid> now waiting on at least 6 things
[16:08] <chris_99> you could do that part in an oven right, Randomskk?
[16:09] <UpuWork> you'll probably have too
[16:09] <cuddykid> I wish if my APM2 would hurry up and arrive
[16:10] <Randomskk> chris_99: yea I plan to
[16:10] <Randomskk> doing it by hand would be near impossible
[16:10] <chris_99> thats what i was thinking heh
[16:10] <chris_99> using a household oven?
[16:10] <Randomskk> hmm. I'll probably use the little toaster oven we have for this purpose
[16:10] <Randomskk> the board has like 83 0402 parts as well
[16:10] <chris_99> wow
[16:10] <Randomskk> trying to get a stencil made in time
[16:10] <Randomskk> not sure that will happen
[16:10] <Randomskk> this is going to be a world of pain to route :P
[16:11] <chris_99> i wish there was better autorouting software in eagle
[16:11] <cuddykid> Laurenceb: is there any special soldering equipment around the electronic eng dept that people wouldn't mind me using if I get stuck with my not so good equip?
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[16:13] <Randomskk> chris_99: :| I dunno
[16:13] <Randomskk> for almost everything at the level I'm working on, or really anything with only two or four layers, I find manual routing is basically always better
[16:13] <Randomskk> but then again I've never had the pleasure of using really proper autorouting
[16:13] <Randomskk> which I like to imagine is good
[16:13] <Randomskk> however as I understand it essentially requires a compute cluster
[16:13] <Laurenceb> cuddykid: sure
[16:14] <chris_99> i've only be playing around with the free version of eagle, so i'm not sure how the paid for one compares. you could probably use a GPU to aid autorouting i imagine.
[16:14] <cuddykid> brill
[16:15] <chris_99> is there software specifically for autorouting or something then?
[16:15] <cuddykid> chris_99: I did my pcb using free eagle
[16:15] <cuddykid> the eagle auto router is fairly good
[16:15] <chris_99> when i'm using it, it fails to route hardly anything
[16:16] <cuddykid> do you have a lot of "through the hole" components?
[16:16] <chris_99> and i'm not even doing anything especially complex, no all SMD
[16:16] <cuddykid> I found it was near impossible to route mine initially until I swapped a lot out for SMD
[16:16] <cuddykid> ahh :S
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[16:16] <cuddykid> I haven't really had a problem with it
[16:20] <HixXChat> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JC32tq7Ibo&feature=related some low level info on Eagle
[16:20] <Randomskk> the autorouter is really bad >_>
[16:20] <Randomskk> it sometimes correctly finds a complete route
[16:20] <Randomskk> but the results are crap
[16:21] <Randomskk> chris_99: the paid for version of eagle has the same autorouter
[16:21] <chris_99> oh thats a bit naff then
[16:21] <HixXChat> generally anyhting titled Auto is bad - cameras, auto-correct, AutoCAD, automatic gearbox....
[16:21] <Randomskk> and there is proper software for it, but it's a really really hard problem -- basically only super high level stuff like motherboards would use it, and even then onyl for some things
[16:21] <Randomskk> it's a really tough problem and really hard to specify too
[16:22] <chris_99> do you know the name of better software for it?
[16:22] <Randomskk> like, what traces matter most? which should have the same/controlled impedance? how thick do these power traces need to be? is this signal critical?
[16:22] <Randomskk> there are a load of things that go into routing something well
[16:22] <Randomskk> no, not really
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[16:28] <chris_99> don't know whether this is any good http://www.zuken.com/en/products/pcb-design/cr-5000/physical/layout/dragon but it has a flying dragon!! ;)
[16:28] <HixXChat> IT at work locked installs on my CADbox - so i managed to get XChat running off a usb stick. Kewl! If only Visual studio would work off usb.
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[16:35] <cuddykid> HixXChat: got my DPD tracking number :D
[16:36] <HixXChat> Glad they didn't drag their arse on your order - seeing as I recommended them.
[16:36] <cuddykid> :P
[16:36] <HixXChat> I'm just gutted that I didnt order the 906 hot-air and solder now....
[16:37] <cuddykid> how much more was that?
[16:37] <HixXChat> €90/95
[16:37] <cuddykid> I bet your wallet was happy you didn't go for that though! haha
[16:37] <HixXChat> in total so €61/66
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[16:39] <HixXChat> my wallet has been trying to contact rapecrisis for a while now
[16:39] <cuddykid> lol
[16:41] <kokey> you know sometimes not having anywhere to have orders delivered to is a blessing
[16:41] <kokey> it prevents me from buying loads of stuff
[16:42] <cuddykid> i have 2 addresses now, 1 of which is in the middle of a city - good for ordering stuff, not good for the wallet
[16:43] <kokey> I have stuff sent to my girlfriend's office, but she's changing jobs
[16:43] <kokey> and she's not good for receiving large items
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[17:09] <daveake> "and she's not good for receiving large items" ... must resist ... must resist
[17:11] <cuddykid> daveake and his dirty mind lol
[17:12] <number10> its the way he doesnt tell um
[17:13] <daveake> It's all in the
[17:13] <daveake> timing
[17:13] <number10> indeed
[17:13] <number10> I am gussing 3/5 items delivered today were hab
[17:14] <number10> _e
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[17:14] <daveake> For me, you, cuddykid, or in general? :)
[17:15] <number10> looking up you said 5 items you received but not all hab
[17:15] <cuddykid> 9/10 of my deliveries are HAB related
[17:15] <number10> have you tired the receiver yet daveake ?
[17:16] <daveake> Yes, it's working fine.
[17:16] <daveake> Though I'm going to have to replace the battery contacts because they're corroded
[17:16] <number10> thats good
[17:16] <daveake> The 'scope arrived today too
[17:16] <daveake> Plus some misc bits from CPC
[17:17] <daveake> Plus work components from RS
[17:17] <daveake> And a food processor
[17:17] <number10> oo a new scope - which one?
[17:17] <daveake> Owon 1G/s sample / 100MHz
[17:18] <daveake> Imported, and I had to pay £6-something VAT and duty. Seller put it down as worth £25
[17:18] <daveake> Silly. I get the VAT back anyway
[17:19] <daveake> The food processor was £140 in Comet, or $90 in Currys, or £64 on Amazon free delivery. Tricky choice that
[17:19] <number10> never heard of the make before
[17:19] <daveake> s/$/£/
[17:19] <joph> daveake, the one with vga out?
[17:19] <daveake> It's a popular cheap Chinese make, like Rigol and Hantec
[17:19] <daveake> Yes
[17:19] <joph> nice
[17:20] <joph> my tekway has just rs232
[17:20] <daveake> Oh, and I got some guy rope stays for the mast
[17:20] <daveake> Sold on ebay for nailing dogs to the ground
[17:21] <number10> lol
[17:21] <daveake> Look like they'll do the job, and very cheap
[17:21] <number10> so - not far off a decent tracking station then
[17:21] <daveake> That's the plan for the weekend
[17:22] <daveake> Just need someone to launch
[17:22] <daveake> These are the things - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dog-Lead-Camp-Tie-Out-Ground-Stake-Anchor-Tether-Screw-/220602762902?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Dogs&hash=item335cf30696#ht_1364wt_1396
[17:22] <number10> I should get cracking - but all of this ham stuff has taken over
[17:23] <daveake> Yeah, I imagine
[17:24] <number10> I have a basic controller - parsing the GPS and doing RTTY and a temperature sensor - just need to tidy up code, put in some timouts for any errors, and make RTTY interrupt driven
[17:25] <daveake> Yeah definitely do the interrupt thing.
[17:25] <number10> have camera and need to look at CHDK, and then make a mess making payload..
[17:25] <daveake> Check the timing as it's easy to get the calculation wrong
[17:26] <number10> yes, I have written off scope from work here
[17:26] <daveake> I think on a PIC I had to increase the timer preset value by 1, because after counting up to 255 it didn't generate an interrupt till the next increment
[17:27] <number10> I should also take payload for a drive since I am not using newsoft serial drivers and want to check for errors
[17:27] <daveake> :-) definitely worth doing
[17:28] <number10> ok thats a good point to note about timers - daveake - I did some stuff at work recently but I would have forgotten that by now
[17:29] <daveake> Yeah, really handy if your scope will display the time period (rather than you having to try and measure on the screen), or I prefer my cheap USB logic analyser which does that.
[17:30] <number10> have an old storage one which helps - is a bit old but ok
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[18:09] Action: daveake is having fun using his new 'scope's FFT function to look at rtty
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[18:16] <x-f> hey, guys, i need an advice on "first time launching"
[18:16] <x-f> does HABing caunt as aerophotography?
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[18:18] <x-f> looks like we'll be the first to launch a HAB in our country, and without previous experience our CAA is a bit sceptical about safety of planes and all
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[18:18] <x-f> so i have an appointment with the CAA's chief of aeronavigation tomorrow morning
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[18:19] Nick change: nigelvh_ -> nigelvh
[18:19] <x-f> we exchanged some emails and he stated that i'll need a special permission for taking photos
[18:20] <x-f> and that means a permission from ministry of defense, heh
[18:21] <x-f> how to prove him that HABing is a simple and quite safe thing?
[18:22] <x-f> also - you (in UK and US) don't have to use radar reflectors, right? because i've seen those only on some Horus flight
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[18:23] <nigelvh> Sorry, I missed the first part of this. Where are you located?
[18:23] <x-f> Latvia, EU
[18:23] <nigelvh> Hmm. Good question. I know we don't use radar reflectors here in the US.
[18:24] <nigelvh> I think there are requirements if our payloads were larger, but ours are small enough to fit in a pretty much restriction free class.
[18:25] <nigelvh> Also, I don't see why you'd need permission for a camera specifically. It's essentially as taking pictures from a hot air balloon, or a plane.
[18:25] <nigelvh> essentially the same as*
[18:25] <x-f> that's what i think
[18:25] <nigelvh> Then again. I'm not a lawyer, nor am I familiar with Latvian rules.
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[18:29] <x-f> being the first one suddendly isn't such a great thing when i have to deal with inexperienced authorities (in HABing) :)
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[18:31] <x-f> i'm gonna introduce him with habhub.org/predict, so that he knows that we know were the balloon will fly
[18:31] <nigelvh> I'm suprised nobody else has jumped on here. I'm sorry I'm not of more use x-f . Not being in the EU kinda doesn't bode well for my knowledge base there.
[18:31] <nigelvh> But that sounds like a good plan to start with.
[18:32] <x-f> thanks anyway, nigelvh
[18:32] <nigelvh> Wanna fly in the US? It's pretty much just let it go.
[18:33] <nigelvh> Assuming it's small.
[18:33] <x-f> it is small, of course
[18:33] <x-f> but US is far, far away, and i want to fly here, i love my country :)
[18:34] <nigelvh> There is that.
[18:34] <x-f> btw, some time ago you mentioned that you have put UV sensors on your payloads. do you remember what sensors were they, because i'm interested in measuring UV radioation
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[18:34] <x-f> radiation and a question mark*
[18:36] <nigelvh> I'm sorry. I don't recall off the top of my head. They were fairly basic photodiodes, but chosen to be sensitive in that range. You may also want a UV bandpass filter. I got some relatively inexpensive ones from Edmund Optics. One thing you'll want to watch out for is a lot of uv photodiodes are very low current devices, so you'll need a high impedance op-amp, which tends to be rather static sensitive.
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[18:39] <x-f> thanks, i was thinking something similar
[18:41] <nigelvh> It's not too bad, as long as you're aware of the issues.
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[19:03] <Dan-K2VOL> anyone have a good source reference for solar UV levels at particular altitudes?
[19:04] <cuddykid> only solar PD levels
[19:04] <cuddykid> http://habe.acudworth.co.uk/blog/
[19:05] <Dan-K2VOL> thx cuddykid
[19:06] <cuddykid> nps
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[19:12] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:13] <Dan-K2VOL> hey LL
[19:13] <Lunar_Lander> hi Dan-K2VOL
[19:13] <Lunar_Lander> how is it going?
[19:16] <Lunar_Lander> if I may ask, Dan-K2VOL
[19:17] <Dan-K2VOL> very well kevin
[19:17] <Dan-K2VOL> we're getting ready to do mission control simulations again for white star, looking for team members again
[19:18] <Dan-K2VOL> you interested still?
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> does mission control work on linux too?
[19:19] <Dan-K2VOL> not sure yet, but it should
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> Mumble is avaiable for ubuntu
[19:23] <Dan-K2VOL> actually will be trying Teamspeak this year
[19:23] <Dan-K2VOL> but it should be too
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> teamspeak is there too
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[19:29] <Lunar_Lander> Dan-K2VOL: currently working on GPS and SD
[19:29] <Dan-K2VOL> oh nice, how's it going
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[19:31] <Lunar_Lander> quite OK, I think I was quite dumb when not understanding TinyGPS
[19:33] <fsphil> best not to worry about the innards of tinygps :)
[19:35] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:36] <fsphil> Lunar_Lander, http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2012/02/breaking-news-error-undoes-faster.html
[19:36] <Dan-K2VOL> yes some libraries are just best used and not opened!
[19:36] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:37] <Lunar_Lander> yea fsphil I heard about that back in October already
[19:37] <Lunar_Lander> seems like it really was the error
[19:37] <fsphil> a bit disappointing :) I was hoping for some kind of FTL communications :)
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> that would have been awesome
[19:42] <eroomde> someone who's done this recently, eg Upu or Darkside
[19:42] <eroomde> gps microstrip thickness and gap
[19:42] <eroomde> 1.6mm 2 layer fr4 board, 1oz copper
[19:42] <Upu> haha
[19:42] <Upu> I just make it up as I go along don't ask me
[19:42] <Upu> btw
[19:42] <Upu> speak to you shortly eroomde
[19:43] <eroomde> i suspect i'm less than sure yep
[19:43] <eroomde> i'm still at work
[19:43] <eroomde> gonna get my air wire count down to 0
[19:43] <eroomde> then sleep on it and rationalise tomorrow
[19:44] <eroomde> actually it doesn't really matter i don't think
[19:44] <eroomde> you're right
[19:44] <eroomde> i'm taking the trace 3mm
[19:44] <LazyLeopard> Heh. We did some back-of-an-envelope calculations at the radio club one evening just after that FTL announcement, and concluded they'd only need one badly-fitted connection to cause the error... ;)
[19:44] <eroomde> which is 1/60th a wavelength
[19:45] <cuddykid> how long do seeed pcbs usually take to arrive after they've been shipped?
[19:45] <eroomde> depends how fit their donkey is
[19:45] <Upu> well there is a good question cuddykid
[19:46] <cuddykid> lol eroomde
[19:46] <Upu> first few took 2 weeks
[19:46] <Upu> but I'm in week 2.5 now
[19:46] <cuddykid> oh :(
[19:46] <cuddykid> usually ebay china stuff comes fairly quick - it has been within a week before
[19:46] <Upu> next time I might just bite the $20 for UPS
[19:46] <cuddykid> yeah
[19:47] <Upu> only adds 50p a board
[19:49] <eroomde> 10 airwaires
[19:49] <eroomde> teams you have 10 airwaires remaining
[19:49] <eroomde> btw if i am still doing this at midnight can someone intervene and tell me to go home
[19:49] <cuddykid> haha
[19:50] <cuddykid> eroomde: can't you vnc or the likes in from home?
[19:50] <cuddykid> but I suppose it's better to stay and get the job done
[19:51] <fsphil> I've found it impossible to do office work at home
[19:51] <fsphil> "I'll do that over the weekend" ... nope, never happens!
[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> xD yeah that is true
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[19:52] <cuddykid> indeed
[19:53] <eroomde> 8 airwires!
[19:53] <eroomde> fsphil: well, a tiny flight computer is actually office work for me atm
[19:53] <eroomde> which is great
[19:53] <cuddykid> 8 steps away from winning £1m
[19:54] <eroomde> 8 steps away from having the drc scream at me for 400 spacing contraventions
[19:54] <cuddykid> haha yeah
[19:55] <cuddykid> creating the pcb was the hardest HAB thing I've ever done
[19:55] <Lunar_Lander> cuddykid: the maximum prize at the cube is now 1 million?
[19:55] <cuddykid> not sure LL
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[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> why did you say then that it's 8 steps from winning 1 millon?
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> million
[19:59] <eroomde> 6 air wires
[19:59] <eroomde> a-a-a-aaaaah
[19:59] <fsphil> lol
[19:59] <eroomde> (sesame street count)
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[20:03] <jcoxon> evening all
[20:03] <jolo2> hey, does anyone know any good software to plot gps data on a map ?
[20:06] <jcoxon> often people use google earth and kml
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[20:07] <jolo2> mmh
[20:07] <daveake> Dave's new toy - just got my DSO plugged in to the PC for screen/data dumps etc. Here's an FFT plt of rtty from an rfm22b - http://i.imgur.com/MX9ft.png
[20:07] <jolo2> and can we get a pretty high resolution image from google earth ?
[20:08] <jcoxon> jolo2, do you want this in real time? or previous data tracks?
[20:08] <jolo2> previous data track
[20:08] <jcoxon> yeah satellite data
[20:09] <jcoxon> otherwise there are some online ones that can make maps
[20:11] <eroomde> daveake: that's really not bad
[20:11] <jcoxon> daveake, thats not a bad signal
[20:11] <eroomde> the rigol's fft display was as course as grainy poo
[20:11] <MrCraig> o.O
[20:12] <daveake> I quite like this scope. Not that I've had much experience with digital ones, but the UI isn't bad; the screen is very clear and quite large, and it seems to do everything I can think of
[20:13] <fsphil> how wide a signal can it measure?
[20:13] <daveake> That image has a 2-second persistance on
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[20:13] <nigelvh> If you don't mind my asking, how much was it? I've got a decent 100MHz scope, but it doesn't have memory.
[20:13] <daveake> fsphil Wide in what way? How many points?
[20:13] <fsphil> wide in hz
[20:13] <daveake> 100MHz b/w
[20:13] <fsphil> nice!
[20:13] <daveake> 1G sample rate
[20:14] <daveake> and 10M points
[20:14] <daveake> Handy if you need to wait for something to happen, then hold and zoom in
[20:14] <fsphil> can the data be streamed to a pc?
[20:14] <nigelvh> Yeah, that's what I'm missing from mine.
[20:16] <daveake> Paid $420 which is about £270
[20:16] <daveake> Duty and VAT came to £6-something ..... :p
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[20:16] <fsphil> that's about one digit less than I expected it to be :)
[20:16] <daveake> :)
[20:17] <daveake> I get the VAT back anyway. Didn't know it was going to get labelled as "£25 value"
[20:17] <daveake> fsphil You can capture the screen (which is what I did there), or WaveForm or "High Memory Depth"
[20:17] <eroomde> my fluke multimeter should be immenent too
[20:17] <eroomde> i hope
[20:17] <daveake> Nice
[20:18] <fsphil> daveake, waveform
[20:18] OZ1SKY_Brian (~Brian@x1-6-20-4e-7f-c8-44-7a.k599.webspeed.dk) joined #highaltitude.
[20:18] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Hi and happy birthday to Hertz :-)
[20:19] <daveake> You can inspect the waveform data points and save to XLS
[20:20] <fsphil> hullo OZ1SKY_Brian
[20:21] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hi phil
[20:21] <eroomde> i dislike how eagle occassionally doesn't make connections in schematic editor
[20:21] <eroomde> good have used hemispheres in their hertz logo
[20:21] <eroomde> facepalm
[20:23] <Upu> eroomde just press F7 and wiggle each component round a little then press escape to snap it back
[20:23] <Upu> its annoying though I agree
[20:24] <Upu> ERC usually picks it up too
[20:24] <Upu> evening Brian
[20:24] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hi upu
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> hello daveake, eroomde, OZ1SKY_Brian, Upu
[20:26] <Upu> you know everytime you do that Lunar_Lander it makes peoples IRC clients blink ? :)
[20:27] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hi lunar. ive been searching for ballon groups here and found nothing.
[20:27] <cuddykid> lol Upu
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander> yeah xD
[20:27] <cuddykid> Upu, Upu, Upu
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander> OZ1SKY_Brian: oh
[20:27] <cuddykid> blink, blink, blink
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:27] <Upu> one is not amused
[20:28] <Upu> am really
[20:29] <jcoxon> OZ1SKY_Brian, start one!
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> jcoxon: that was my suggestion
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[20:29] <cuddykid> LL: you should go through the whole list and greet everyone :)
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[20:29] <jcoxon> DenHAS
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:30] <Upu> damn
[20:31] <Upu> was Oliver right ? : http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/02/120221212614.htm
[20:31] <Lunar_Lander> seems so
[20:31] <cuddykid> nice
[20:31] <cuddykid> he did have one great bit of kit with him at the conf
[20:31] <cuddykid> albeit smashed up :P
[20:34] <MrCraig> Such a shame, mangled bio-lab in a tesco carrier bag.
[20:35] <cuddykid> lol
[20:37] <Lunar_Lander> LOL
[20:41] <Lunar_Lander> does someone have the youtube link to his talk?
[20:42] <fsphil> it's on youtube
[20:42] <fsphil> http://www.ukhas.org.uk/general:ukhasconference
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[20:42] <MrCraig> hmm, that's the one video that hadn't be uploaded when I blogged it and I didn't go back to update the post.
[20:43] <fsphil> just noticed he seems to be playing with his phone at the beginning
[20:44] <Upu> There was some discussion that it got that mangled at launch not when it hit the ground
[20:44] <Upu> the rocket boys felt the acceleration i the motor he was using could easily squish what was a fairly light frame
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[20:46] <MrCraig> interesting but I think he did report communications with the flight computer for a good time during the flight - so I wonder how much was the acceleration and how much the sudden rapid decelleration.
[20:46] <Lunar_Lander> that was by oliver still=
[20:46] <Lunar_Lander> ?
[20:46] <Lunar_Lander> ah yea he worked on a rocket too, yea
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[20:51] <eroomde> we light de peyer
[20:51] <eroomde> you love is our only de-sire
[20:51] <eroomde> your*
[20:51] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:51] <fsphil> that's -100 hab points eroomde
[20:52] <nigelvh> I think I need to speak with the international bank of hab points because these criteria seem a little random.
[20:52] <fsphil> like most banks :)
[20:53] <daveake_> based on the QI scheme
[20:53] <nigelvh> lol
[20:54] <fsphil> which makes perfect sense. to someone. somewhere
[20:56] <MrCraig> so - is there such a thing as a hd camera that'll store 3hours + of video to an SD card and which is light ?
[20:56] <fsphil> gopro?
[20:57] <MrCraig> That's the name I was expecting to hear in response to the question :-)
[21:00] <MrCraig> my next question (which might be testable if anyone happens to already own the hardware) - would it be possible to sync a pair of gopro's and fetch a frame of video from each of them for the same instant, or rather, what problems might I face in trying to do that?
[21:01] <MrCraig> My plan is to set them both to point at the same clock face and then use some adobe software to work the video.
[21:01] <fsphil> I can't test, but there is a system for linking them -- for doing 3d, but you don't have to have them aligned for that
[21:01] <MrCraig> you don't? Stereoscopic composition is exactly what I'd like to do
[21:01] <nigelvh> I think the gopros have a frame capture line, where you can control them to grab a frame, but I don't think there's any way to sync the video frames. That gets into sharing the same clock source.
[21:02] <fsphil> I only have one :)
[21:02] <SpeedEvil> I suppose you could wire them to a common clock source
[21:02] <nigelvh> If you're only doing 3d, I would just line up the timelines in the video software to be within one frame of eachother.
[21:02] <nigelvh> the 1/24th of a second or less of a difference isn't going to matter.
[21:03] <MrCraig> I guess it doesn't have to be precisely the same frame - tollerences of 200ms would be fine
[21:03] <nigelvh> 200ms is far beyond a single frame. Just line up the frames in the timeline and you'll be fine. Don't worry about syncing them.
[21:03] <fsphil> "GoPro Sync Cable"
[21:04] <jcoxon> howabout a sync card before hand
[21:04] <fsphil> http://s5.static-iceb.org/povuk/media/catalog/product/cache/12/image/600x600/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/g/o/gopro-hd-3d-hero-system-sync-cable.jpg
[21:04] <MrCraig> jcoxon that's what I was thinking, actually just using a clock face with a second hand
[21:04] <nigelvh> Yeah, all you need is a quick change on screen, and line that up.
[21:04] <MrCraig> thanks fsphil
[21:05] <nigelvh> my question about that cable is does it just control the two start stop functions, or does it actually sync the clocks.
[21:05] <nigelvh> I would guess it just starts recording at the same time.
[21:05] <fsphil> it's for doing 3d, so I guess it syncs the frames
[21:06] <nigelvh> But for the same reasons we just talked about, the clocks dont need to be synced. Just as long as they're close.
[21:06] <MrCraig> ok great - then that's the plan, pair of gopro with a queue card or possibly a 3d hero :-) HD 3D flight movie, sweet.
[21:06] <eroomde> cloud
[21:06] <nigelvh> Simply having the record button at the same time would get you close.
[21:06] <eroomde> more cloud
[21:06] <eroomde> woo cloud
[21:06] <MrCraig> lol
[21:06] <eroomde> isn't 3d cool?
[21:06] <MrCraig> 3D cloud!
[21:07] <nigelvh> 3D!!!! CLOUD!!!!
[21:07] <MrCraig> lol
[21:07] <nigelvh> SPAAAAAAACE!!!!
[21:07] <fsphil> bah, 3D is so last year. 4D is where it's at
[21:07] <daveake_> Not sure how well stereo cameras will work when the image is 50km away
[21:07] <nigelvh> Bah, we all live in 4D all the time, what he really wants is 5D
[21:08] <Hix> 2 ballons....
[21:08] <nigelvh> Just like the SRTM!
[21:08] <Hix> boss-eyed 3d
[21:08] <MrCraig> ok fsphil - happen to have any HD lightweight time traveling gopro hyperspace hero option?
[21:08] <fsphil> I got my gopro for a flight in 2011, and it hasn't flown yet. that's a kind of time travel...
[21:09] <nigelvh> It is traveling through time presently...
[21:09] <jcoxon> or is time travelling through it
[21:09] <nigelvh> Or both.
[21:09] <MrCraig> presently or constantly? (omg it's getting far too pedantic now)
[21:10] <nigelvh> Also both
[21:10] <fsphil> it's all wibbly wobbly
[21:10] <MrCraig> I think I'll just stick to and aim for 3D cloud.
[21:10] <nigelvh> Also, if he can't see it, it could be there or not there, and both, until he collapses the wavefunction and checks.
[21:10] <nigelvh> That's what happens to socks in the dryer.
[21:11] <nigelvh> XD
[21:11] <daveake_> and 'scope leads
[21:11] <MrCraig> shivers at the mention of wave function collapse (head still hurts from the last conversation on it)
[21:11] <daveake_> Doesn't matter how many I buy, I still have the same number
[21:11] <fsphil> lol daveake_, I find that with croc clips
[21:11] <nigelvh> YAY QUANTUM SOCKS AND SCOPE PROBES!
[21:12] <eroomde> quantum socks
[21:12] <eroomde> socks in the heap on the floor that might be clean or might be dirty
[21:12] <eroomde> you don't know until you pick them up
[21:12] <nigelvh> Both and neither till you check.
[21:14] <MrCraig> trust me, if my socks are on the floor you don't gotta pick them up to know when they need washin... stick to cats in a box.
[21:14] <nigelvh> Relatedly: http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2524#comic
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[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> and the best hab band is Aerosmith!
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> :P
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[21:23] <eroomde> 4 air wires
[21:23] <eroomde> a-a-a-aaaa
[21:23] <Upu> home time ?
[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> what are air wires?
[21:24] <eroomde> the yellow lines on the pcb design program that go between two nodes that need connecting
[21:25] <eroomde> to show you what you have left to do
[21:25] <Lunar_Lander> ah
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[21:45] <eroomde> DONE
[21:45] <fsphil> home time!
[21:45] <Upu> congrats
[21:45] <Upu> go home
[21:47] <eroomde> I am
[21:47] <eroomde> g'night
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[23:28] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Randall "[UKHAS] XABEN-21 flight announcement."
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[23:33] <Lunar_Lander> Upu are you still on?
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[23:37] <Lunar_Lander> hi daveake_
[23:37] <Lunar_Lander> still on :)?
[23:38] <daveake_> stillon what? :)
[23:38] <Lunar_Lander> the PC
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[23:38] <daveake_> Yeah, just getting ready to go see a customer tomorrow
[23:38] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[23:38] <Lunar_Lander> I was stupid
[23:38] <Lunar_Lander> I didn't know how I could make the running number in the string after the callsign
[23:38] <Lunar_Lander> now I know
[23:38] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[23:39] <daveake_> I see rocketboy is launching on Friday. So Friday morning I shall be mostly setting up my new rig :)
[23:41] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
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[23:58] <Lunar_Lander> hi mattltm
[00:00] --- Thu Feb 23 2012