highaltitude.log.20120221

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[00:24] <Pavix> brb, internet is running slowly
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[00:30] <Pavix> Hmm, doesnt seem to have helped.
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[00:33] <Pavix> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1786150838.png for 10mbit cable internet, that's pretty dreadful
[01:04] <Randomskk> ugh you think that's bad
[01:04] <Randomskk> mine is awful
[01:04] <Randomskk> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1786185930.png
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[01:29] <Anasule> Hi all
[01:29] <Anasule> I found a nice site for plotting baloon paths uses google maps but now ive lost it can anyone help based on my vague description?
[01:30] <Dan-K2VOL1> yes
[01:30] <Dan-K2VOL1> google this:
[01:30] <Dan-K2VOL1> cusf predictor
[01:30] <Anasule> Thankyou!
[01:33] <Anasule> Ok so you have a 300 Gram baloon natural colour if that matters its an 8' inch baloon and it pops at 11' inch how do you get info like how much helium to fill it with and what its burst altitude or ascent rate will be?
[01:33] <Dan-K2VOL1> go to http://habhub.org/
[01:34] Action: Hibby stretches and cracks his back
[01:34] <Hibby> it's sore today
[01:35] <Dan-K2VOL1> heya hibby
[01:35] <Hibby> how goes?
[01:35] <Dan-K2VOL1> great
[01:35] <Hibby> oh aye?
[01:35] <Dan-K2VOL1> speedball-1 is running along unattended on the stand at the hackerspace, hooked to PCs with arduino programming cables and Teamviewr and logic analyzers
[01:39] <Hibby> nice
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[02:16] <Anasule> How can you work out the actual ascent rate for a baloon? i have so many calculators open now its become confusing
[02:16] <Dan-K2VOL1> what's your payload weight and balloon weight?
[02:17] <Anasule> Baloon: 300 Grams Natural, 8 foot inflated 11 foot pop Box: 117g
[02:18] <Dan-K2VOL1> what brand balloon
[02:19] <Anasule> Can i post links here?
[02:19] <Dan-K2VOL1> yeah
[02:19] <Anasule> http://www.scientificsales.com/8237-Weather-Balloon-300-Grams-Natural-p/8237.htm
[02:19] <Dan-K2VOL1> probably hwoyee 300
[02:19] <Dan-K2VOL1> use the CUSF burst calculator as follows:
[02:20] <Dan-K2VOL1> Payload mass: 117
[02:20] <Dan-K2VOL1> Balloon mass: Hwoyee - 300
[02:20] <Dan-K2VOL1> Target Burst ALtitude : [delete numbers from this field]
[02:20] <Dan-K2VOL1> Target Ascent Rate: 4
[02:20] <Dan-K2VOL1> there you go
[02:21] <Anasule> Launch Volume: 0.68 m3 676 L 23.9 ft3
[02:21] <Anasule> I assume one of these lets me know how much helium would be needed?
[02:21] <Dan-K2VOL1> you will fill the balloon based on Neck Lift
[02:21] <Dan-K2VOL1> use a fishing hook scale
[02:21] <Anasule> Oh i see
[02:21] <Dan-K2VOL1> fill until the scale reads that - the weight of your fill tube
[02:22] <Dan-K2VOL1> that minus the fill tube
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[02:22] <Dan-K2VOL1> 4 m/s is a typical ascent rate
[02:23] <Anasule> Thats loads better now my prediction doesent go around the world :o)
[02:23] <Dan-K2VOL1> hahahah
[02:23] <Dan-K2VOL1> good!
[02:27] <Anasule> Now i understand the up anyone have a parachoot calculator
[02:28] <Dan-K2VOL1> that's not very critical, for a small payload like yours a 0.5m chute will probably give you the same 4m/s down
[02:29] <Dan-K2VOL1> but the site spherachutes.com has some numbers
[02:29] <Anasule> Thanks
[02:34] <Anasule> Now all i have to worry about is the baloons fail to land in an apropriate place like someones house roof wraped around a chimney or a large tree?
[02:34] <Dan-K2VOL1> where are you from?
[02:34] <Anasule> UK
[02:35] <Dan-K2VOL1> ok, you can't just launch anytime anywhere in the UK, see the ukhas.org.uk site
[02:36] <Dan-K2VOL1> I'm unfortunately not in the UK, but I know that you must apply for permission to launch, which is called a NOTAM
[02:37] <Anasule> I read about calling the FAA
[02:38] <Dan-K2VOL1> don't do that :-) that's the USA aviation agency, you need to contact the CAA over there
[02:38] <Anasule> I dont have half the parts to build this yet im just going through it in my head looking for fails
[02:38] <Dan-K2VOL1> the normal guys who hang out here in the UK daylight hours will be of great assistance on the regulatory side
[02:38] <Anasule> Well depending on if i use my prediction or yours i might have to lol ;o)
[02:38] <Dan-K2VOL1> haha
[02:40] <Anasule> well thats enough notes for today its 3am again
[02:40] <Dan-K2VOL1> :-)
[02:40] <Anasule> Thanks for the help :o)
[02:40] <Hibby> working well240 here
[02:40] <Hibby> definately time for bed
[02:40] <Dan-K2VOL1> you're welcome, take a peek at our project if you'd like to see one try for a USA to UK flight next month - whitestarballoon.org
[02:41] <Hibby> you going next month?
[02:41] <Dan-K2VOL1> yep, if you're avaiable for mission control!
[02:41] <Dan-K2VOL1> :-P
[02:42] <Anasule> @Dan-K2VOL1 if it lands in the west midlands i can collect and post it back for you lol
[02:42] <Dan-K2VOL1> SB-1 is just about a week from hardware final certification for flight, then it's just training the mission controllers with flight sims
[02:42] <Dan-K2VOL1> nice Anasule, I'll take you up on that!
[02:43] <Hibby> Dan-K2VOL1: STAC is out, I'm not getting back there until after my contract expires by the look of it
[02:43] <Dan-K2VOL1> oh no Hibby, the fire?
[02:43] <Hibby> but I'll see if I can hijack the club shack. may be an issue as I'm not in the club anymore, lol
[02:43] <Anasule> See you all tomarow
[02:43] <Dan-K2VOL1> hehe
[02:43] <Hibby> Dan-K2VOL1: yeah, needs to be professionally cleaned and decontaminated for insurance purposes
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[02:44] <Dan-K2VOL1> upu may get a 434mhz tracker done in time for SB2
[02:44] <Hibby> no damage afaik
[02:44] <Dan-K2VOL1> :-(
[02:44] <Dan-K2VOL1> you could use the extra time to help him speed that up!
[02:44] <Hibby> haha
[02:44] <Dan-K2VOL1> they won't fix your contract to account for that delay?
[02:44] <Hibby> at the moment, actually, I'm applying like mad to space companies
[02:44] <Hibby> and the department are also referring them to me as suggested for roles, which is very much appreciated.
[02:45] <Hibby> Dan-K2VOL1: they won't get a funding extension
[02:45] <Dan-K2VOL1> what was your specialty again hibby?
[02:45] <Dan-K2VOL1> EE?
[02:45] <Hibby> I did a double major ( as y'all would say) in EE and Mech Eng, and have been doing spacecraft systems work since then
[02:46] <Dan-K2VOL1> ah yes
[02:46] <Hibby> was at a meeting with EADS Astrium today about thermal systems in LISA-Pathfinder
[02:46] <Dan-K2VOL1> what other spacecraft systems are you interested in working on
[02:47] <Hibby> variety. Ground segment is kind of my thing though :)
[02:48] <Dan-K2VOL1> oh yes, I do recall the gorgeous presentation photos you had of your array
[02:59] <Hibby> I've been working on an arduino based controller for the rotators
[02:59] <Hibby> given it's only counting pulses, I might even go down to msp430
[02:59] <Hibby> because I'm in love with mine
[03:03] <Dan-K2VOL1> hehe
[03:03] <Dan-K2VOL1> the 430 could probably run off the pulse power itself
[03:06] <Hibby> lol. They're so beautiful.
[03:06] <Hibby> well, as beautiful as low cost silicon gets
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[03:32] <Hibby> night geeks :)
[03:33] <Dan-K2VOL1> night all
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[03:43] Action: griffonbot is GriffonBot [http://github.com/ssb/griffonbot]
[03:43] Action: griffonbot is following: #ukhas #cusf #atlasballoon #projecthorus #HABE2
[03:43] Action: griffonbot is tracking emails sent to ukhas@googlegroups.com
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[04:23] <MLow> How do you get griffonbot to follow something
[04:25] <nigelvh> No idea. But I did get around to running a test of the frequency response of the HX1 modules.
[04:27] <MLow> cool
[04:27] <MLow> But now you have to get around to blogging it
[04:27] <MLow> as do i have too about the hx1 fiasco
[04:28] <nigelvh> Yeah, I literally just finished the measurement portion, so now I'm generating a nice graph of the unpleasantness.
[04:28] <MLow> yeah i bet it sucks
[04:28] <MLow> is it uniform? or random?
[04:29] <nigelvh> I wouldn't say random. More like a bell curve at centered at about 400Hz. Below, the radio is unstable, above the deviation drops off a lot.
[04:31] <MLow> bah
[04:31] <MLow> wanted it to draw a middle finger
[04:32] <nigelvh> Well, if you're imaginative, it's close.
[04:32] <MLow> I am
[04:32] <MLow> and I will
[04:33] Action: MLow awaits graph
[04:33] <MLow> Btw im at work for picking up my gf
[04:33] <MLow> and
[04:33] <MLow> were only still here because a table of 10 walked in last minute before the kitchen closed and were just waiting for them to goooo
[04:34] <nigelvh> That sucks. I'm fortunate to have a 7:30-4 job that I just get to leave unless something's on fire.
[04:34] <MLow> She's a busser, so she has to stay until things are locking up
[04:34] <MLow> bank/office/register/door
[04:34] <nigelvh> Also I have the option to work from home. YAY SYSADMIN!!
[04:34] <MLow> you
[04:35] <nigelvh> me
[04:35] <MLow> i thought about working from home
[04:35] <MLow> but id get fat
[04:35] <MLow> plus im dependant on human interaction and chat rooms dont count
[04:36] <nigelvh> Haha. Yeah, most of the time I'm at the office, but if it snows a lot, or I'm not feeling well or whatnot, working from home is convenient.
[04:36] <MLow> Id just be tempted too much
[04:36] <MLow> Weak will :S
[04:37] <MLow> Also, I need a name for my project, all you guys have cool names
[04:37] <nigelvh> "Kersplodey 7"
[04:37] <nigelvh> "Kick-Ass Project 2"
[04:37] <nigelvh> "Project Awesome"
[04:38] <nigelvh> "Not A Bomb"
[04:38] <MLow> What part of the atmosphere is 100k ft
[04:38] <nigelvh> Stratosphere
[04:38] <nigelvh> "Stratospheric Failure"
[04:38] <MLow> low? high?
[04:38] <nigelvh> I don't remember the exact extents of where each layer is generally. Google "Atmospheric Layers"
[04:39] <nigelvh> The internet knows
[04:39] <MLow> middle huh..
[04:39] <MLow> 20-50km
[04:39] <MLow> 100k ft is the middle
[04:39] <nigelvh> Yeah, Sounds about right.
[04:39] <MLow> 30km
[04:40] <nigelvh> "Mediocre Flight"
[04:40] <MLow> too brittishy
[04:40] <nigelvh> Mediocre?
[04:40] <nigelvh> Also, remember where you're chatting buddy
[04:40] <nigelvh> We're deep in "enemy" territory.
[04:41] <MLow> were?
[04:41] <nigelvh> "We are"
[04:41] <nigelvh> This is the land of people who say things like "bollard" and have names like "Nigel"
[04:42] <nigelvh> (Myself not included)
[04:42] <MLow> are you brittish or not damnit
[04:42] <MLow> You have me confused
[04:43] <MLow> MId-Strato-Experimental-Payload
[04:43] <MLow> MISEP
[04:43] <nigelvh> I live in america. Was born and raised here in Washington. Happen to have an english first name. Have a dutch last name, and am 1/4 English, 1/4 French and 1/2 Dutch.
[04:43] <nigelvh> Somewhere in the middle.
[04:44] <nigelvh> Mostly purebred white boy.
[04:44] <MLow> Yeah same
[04:46] <MLow> im not super american, worse, im super texan
[04:46] <nigelvh> Yeah. There's ups and downs to everywhere.
[04:48] <MLow> Alright, headed home
[04:48] <nigelvh> Have fun yo.
[04:48] <MLow> 20 mins
[05:36] <nigelvh> Alright. Posted to the blog at k7nvh.com and added a bit of info to the wiki on the radio modules page.
[05:36] <nigelvh> Headed to bed now.
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[08:40] <fsphil> morning one and all
[08:45] <number10> morning
[09:05] <eroomde> morning all for one
[09:27] <gonzo_> pancake day!
[09:28] <SamSilver_> Tequila Tuesday
[09:29] <fsphil> yay!
[09:31] <gonzo_> Whiskey wednesday?
[09:33] <fsphil> if an old crt monitor has the left side of the image squeezed, and the right side stretched - what was the name of the setting to adjust to fix it? I can't remember!
[09:35] <number10> dunno
[09:36] <SamSilver_> skew
[09:37] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: It's not settings
[09:37] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: One of the caps has gone
[09:37] <fsphil> that would explain why I'm not finding it :)
[09:38] <SpeedEvil> Fixing it with the linearity settings - if in fact possible - will not result in a stable picture
[09:38] <SpeedEvil> Check for bulging and/or hot caps
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[09:43] <gonzo_> the fix for a crt is called, the bin
[09:43] <gonzo_> (unless it';s a particularly special one)
[09:46] <fsphil> that's probably what will happen
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[10:14] <Anasule> Hi all, for once im on in the day
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[10:47] <eroomde> so much for anasule
[10:47] <eroomde> morning all again
[10:47] <costyn> fsphil: there was a pincushion setting on some crt's, but that's when they're both squeezed or bulging, not skewed one way
[10:48] <eroomde> keystone?
[10:49] <daveake_> shaped like a keystone in the middle of an arch
[10:49] <eroomde> lost
[10:49] <daveake_> http://sugarmtnfarm.com/blog/uploaded_images/ArcKeyStoneDSCF5630-706588.jpg :)
[10:50] <daveake_> wider at top than bottom
[10:51] <daveake_> am I helping or should I just shut up? :p
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[10:54] <TimZaman> Hi All
[10:56] <TimZaman> got a launch comming up, can i parse someone the XML?
[10:57] <cuddykid> where are you launching from TimZaman?
[10:57] <TimZaman> holandia
[10:57] <cuddykid> oh cool :)
[10:57] <TimZaman> obviously
[10:57] <TimZaman> :)
[10:57] <TimZaman> put the project on hold for 1.5 months
[10:58] <TimZaman> and i plugged it in just now 15 mins ago and everything worked and i'm ready to go
[10:58] <TimZaman> it'll have a straight up polaroid camera in it though so i got some hot wire around it to heat it that i need to apply
[10:59] <TimZaman> some stuff from last flight in november can be found here: http://www.timzaman.nl/?page_id=2081&lang=en
[10:59] <TimZaman> especially awesome are the very hard crashpictures of the payloads (had two payloads)
[10:59] <_Hix> is this going to be on the tracker site?
[11:00] <TimZaman> spacenear.us
[11:00] <TimZaman> as allways
[11:00] <TimZaman> always
[11:00] <TimZaman> im looking at the temp vs alt vs time graph
[11:01] <TimZaman> and when in the descent, it hits below the 12km mark, the temperature frops from -15 to -25 due to windchill very rapidly. Why?
[11:01] <Darkside> uhh
[11:01] <Darkside> 12km is the tropopause
[11:01] <Darkside> the coldest part of the atmosphere
[11:02] <TimZaman> i know that
[11:02] <Darkside> and you're falling into it at quite a speed
[11:02] <TimZaman> but its so rapid
[11:02] <Darkside> yeah its probably wind getting into the payload
[11:02] <TimZaman> ok true
[11:02] <TimZaman> Darkside: http://www.timzaman.nl/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/pofrospa1_tempalt-time.jpg
[11:03] <TimZaman> Darkside: i got my beaglebone in, its pretty neat
[11:03] <Darkside> sounds like the payload rtwisted or something, not sure
[11:03] <Darkside> TimZaman: yeah they are cool
[11:03] <Darkside> i havent had time to do any work with mine
[11:03] <TimZaman> slow though :P
[11:03] <Darkside> more than fast enough for a balloon payload
[11:03] <TimZaman> no i just did some stuff, they did do pretty nice web applications with it
[11:03] <TimZaman> surely yeah
[11:03] <Darkside> i'm avoiding using the usb port
[11:03] <Darkside> like, i dont want to use it *at all*
[11:03] <TimZaman> why?
[11:04] <Darkside> because its somethign i can turn off to save power
[11:04] <TimZaman> i guess it'd be nice if it burned some and made some heat?
[11:04] <Darkside> i wouldn't do that in the chip
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[11:04] <TimZaman> seeing the problems i had with the amazing cold on the oscillator in the beagleboard
[11:04] <Darkside> i'm thinking of using a linear regulator on a shield for it
[11:04] <Darkside> have the linear reg on the bottm of the shield
[11:05] <Darkside> and insulate both ends - that way heat gets trapped inside
[11:05] <TimZaman> ah
[11:05] <TimZaman> i was thinking of a portable hairdryer on the outside of the payload facing the payload
[11:05] <Darkside> uh
[11:05] <Darkside> serious?
[11:05] <TimZaman> lol
[11:06] <SpeedEvil> You may need a lot of batteries :)
[11:06] <TimZaman> why not
[11:06] <Darkside> you're crazy dude
[11:06] <Darkside> thats a complete waste of power
[11:06] <TimZaman> SpeedEvil: i just made a nice schematic with a perpertuum mobile that can power it easily
[11:06] <Darkside> use a linear regulator and couple the regulator to the cpu die
[11:07] <TimZaman> Darkside: well, its better than my first idea: i would just put the payload in a portable oventoaster, and attach the balloon to the oven and send it up
[11:07] <TimZaman> pretty smart, right
[11:07] <Darkside> not sure if trolling or just stupid
[11:07] <Darkside> :P
[11:07] <TimZaman> brainstorming here
[11:07] <Darkside> (though pretty sure trolling)
[11:08] <TimZaman> the best idea though was using a portable instant BBQ inside the payload
[11:08] <TimZaman> no but seriously all of these idea would lead to a lot of fun surely
[11:09] <Darkside> or a payload that catches on fire at 20km altitude
[11:09] <TimZaman> hahahahaha
[11:09] <Darkside> this is not a good thing
[11:09] <TimZaman> project helios
[11:09] <Darkside> more like project icarus
[11:10] <TimZaman> hahahahahah
[11:11] <TimZaman> ok be back tonight
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[11:12] <_Hix> anyone know what callsign the launch is going to use on spacenear?
[11:12] <_Hix> also for the heating what about a swollen LiPo, should geneerate enough heat in the payload to stop things getting chilly - free cutdown too
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[11:18] <fsphil> which launch _Hix?
[11:19] <_Hix> TimZaman's
[11:19] <fsphil> man, Tim's on fire today lol
[11:19] <Darkside> burn
[11:20] <fsphil> he used PD4TA last time, but it's impossible to predict Tim
[11:21] <cuddykid> lol
[11:21] <Darkside> and the behaviour of his payloads
[11:21] <_Hix> so in theory if i use http://spacenear.us/tracker/?filter=PD4TA it should show it?
[11:21] <Darkside> though i'll be waiting in anticipation for the 12km altitude payload failure
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[11:42] <cuddykid> does anyone know of a *slim* gsm/sms module?
[11:42] <cuddykid> I just need it to be able to fit in a 25mm diameter tube
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[11:48] <fsphil> _Hix, the tracker will show it anyway
[11:48] <fsphil> the filter just removes everything else too
[11:48] <fsphil> *if* his gps works
[11:50] <_Hix> ok - I'm getting the feeling Tim is a bit on the maverick side :)
[11:52] <eroomde> cuddykid: that wouldn't happen to be a seat post tube for a saddle, would it?
[11:52] <cuddykid> eroomde: indeed it would :P
[11:53] <eroomde> funny that
[11:53] <cuddykid> I've had a look and can't really find anything - I think I might go for an integrated tracker/light solution
[11:53] <eroomde> i did a design for exactly that in my first year at uni
[11:53] <cuddykid> oh nice
[11:53] <cuddykid> did you make a working model?
[11:56] <staylo> Sounds like a very inefficient seat warmer
[11:56] <eroomde> no
[11:56] <eroomde> this was just one of those tiresome design exercises for the course
[11:57] <cuddykid> ahh right
[11:57] <cuddykid> no fun unless you actually get to build the thing :P
[11:57] <eroomde> had just done badger 1 flight computer so more or less just threw the schematic together and made a load of sketches
[11:57] <cuddykid> yeah
[11:58] <cuddykid> I reckon I could pop an atmega/ublox/gsm module on a tiny pcb for use in a bike light
[11:59] <cuddykid> run it off 2 watch batteries
[12:02] <eroomde> gsm on 2 watch batteries
[12:02] <eroomde> best of luck
[12:03] <_Hix> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/gsm-gprs/7165252/ but it is 25mm. what about something out of a 3G dongle? They're small
[12:03] <cuddykid> eroomde: requires 3v right? And running in idle - wouldn't consume much?
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[12:05] <cuddykid> nice _Hix
[12:05] <cuddykid> that's about as small as they get
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[12:05] <SpeedEvil> cuddykid: Well - you run the GPS of the light batteries
[12:05] <SpeedEvil> That's the point
[12:06] <SpeedEvil> So you have a few Ah at 6V or something
[12:06] <cuddykid> yeah :)
[12:06] <SpeedEvil> Make the charger microusb or something, so they have a charger for it.
[12:07] <staylo> What's the objective? anti theft tracker?
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[12:07] <cuddykid> yep staylo
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[12:11] <SpeedEvil> Don't forget some means of turning on the GSM audio
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[12:15] <staylo> How about: MCU with LDR and piezo buzzer. Beeps discretely when wheeled outdoors, has to be cancelled by user. Otherwise powers up TP-LINK WR703N connected to cheapo dongle & GPS module which gets position, phones it home and then tells the MCU to cut the power again until the next report window.
[12:16] <SpeedEvil> I'd say just leave it on, forever.
[12:16] <SpeedEvil> Connected to the bike-light battery.
[12:16] <_Hix> you can get 38.1mm oversize handlebars could fit something in the stem
[12:16] <SpeedEvil> If movement is detected, wake up, attempt to get fix.
[12:17] <_Hix> SpeedEvil - sounds like one of the characters in trainspotting :)
[12:17] <staylo> I'm naturally lazy so I always go for the easiest off the shelf option instead of the most elegant :)
[12:17] <cuddykid> what I was planning - when I found out it's been stolen (hopefully never!) - then a simple text would turn on the gps etc
[12:17] <eroomde> cuddykid: batteries are more to them than just their capacity
[12:17] <eroomde> the other important metric is their discharge rate
[12:17] <SpeedEvil> cuddykid: you can track the phone part also.
[12:18] <SpeedEvil> Even if it has no GPS
[12:18] <eroomde> and things like watch batteries (basically most lithium coin cells) have really tiny dischare rates
[12:18] <eroomde> compared to their capacity
[12:18] <SpeedEvil> google 'find my phone'
[12:18] <cuddykid> ahh right eroomde
[12:18] <eroomde> maybe 0.05C where C is the capacity in Ah
[12:18] <cuddykid> SpeedEvil: yeah :D
[12:18] <SpeedEvil> In principle, you could even loise the GPS, rely on the mobile phone location, and drop in a 433MHz tone transmitter
[12:18] <eroomde> and gsm needs something like 2A peak
[12:18] <eroomde> which is probably 100 - 1000 times more than your coin cells could possibly supply
[12:19] <staylo> with the 703N you could record the surrounding wifi signals too ;)
[12:21] <cuddykid> haha - they will be well and truly busted&. if they don't remove the light& lol
[12:21] <staylo> well, at least you'll recover the light :)
[12:22] <cuddykid> haha, I suppose so :P
[12:23] <CovBalloon> anyone want an aor 8000 for £100
[12:24] <SpeedEvil> Not here.
[12:24] <_Hix> YES! Are you in Cov?
[12:25] <CovBalloon> I am
[12:25] <_Hix> well that was weel timed and well placed. It is the SSB AM receiver that works with teh radiometrix modules correct?
[12:25] <CovBalloon> yes
[12:25] <SpeedEvil> SSB != AM
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[12:26] <_Hix> WIN! I'm in Cov working this minute. Can arrange to collect sometime if that suits you?
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[12:30] <_Hix> cuccykid - you could stash it in an oversize stem http://s.wiggle.co.uk/images/bbb-highrise-ovr-stem-med.jpg?w=350&h=350&a=7
[12:30] <_Hix> oops another typo - you get my drift
[12:30] <cuddykid> yep :P
[12:31] <CovBalloon> _Hix I am assuming you have seen my messages to you
[12:32] <_Hix> have now :)
[12:36] <Laurenceb> fire service are practising high rise rescue outside my office - guy just abseiled past my window :P
[12:38] <cuddykid> laurenceb: do you happen to be in electronic engineering building?
[12:38] <Laurenceb> yes XD
[12:38] <cuddykid> haha - i've always wanted to go to the top of that
[12:39] <Laurenceb> theres nothing stopping you
[12:39] <Laurenceb> you can walk right up
[12:39] <Laurenceb> i was thinking itd be good for receiving up there
[12:40] <Laurenceb> on 16th floor theres an open plan glass walled part with good view south
[12:41] <cuddykid> yeah, I'll have to go up sometime :D
[12:41] <cuddykid> indeed - it would have a good los
[12:42] <cuddykid> I wonder if they would allows us to set up a listening station up there :P
[12:42] <Laurenceb> dont see why not
[12:43] <cuddykid> have you spoke to any of the engineering people about HAB at all?
[12:44] <Laurenceb> not with a view to them doing anything :P
[12:44] <cuddykid> ahh ok!
[12:45] <cuddykid> right, an afternoon of fun awaits - bbl
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[13:04] <_Hix> anyone got any idea what callsign tim is using? an 817 has appeared on the tracker at Heiloo in NL
[13:06] <fsphil> he's launching tttttttttttttttttttooooooooooooooooooodahing today?
[13:06] <fsphil> er
[13:06] <fsphil> today even :)
[13:06] <fsphil> my keyboard got overexcited
[13:06] <_Hix> [10:57] <TimZaman> got a launch comming up, can i parse someone the XML? [10:57] <cuddykid> where are you launching from TimZaman? [10:57] <TimZaman> holandia
[13:08] <fsphil> not sure that means today
[13:09] <_Hix> [11:11] <TimZaman> ok be back tonight
[13:10] <fsphil> I think he's just getting the payload setup on the tracker system
[13:10] <_Hix> coupled with the appearance of a yaesu 817 with yagi in holland 10 mins ago on spacenear - could be putting 2+2 to get 5 just seemed too much coincidence
[13:10] <_Hix> ahh
[13:10] <fsphil> hopefully he's doing some testing :)
[13:10] <_Hix> sounded like he had a bit of a "Maverick" apporach from what peep said eralier
[13:11] <fsphil> well, most of his flights never really go to plan
[13:11] <fsphil> and yet somehow he manages to recover them all
[13:12] <fsphil> he's landed in a big lake, a military base, one got lost in germany but was found a month later
[13:13] <fsphil> and his last two the flight computer or gps failed
[13:13] Action: Hibby returns to matlab
[13:13] <fsphil> he needs to test more :)
[13:14] <Hibby> hmm. 3.5x10^26 may be the wrong value
[13:15] <fsphil> possibly
[13:15] <Hibby> i'm expecting 0.7
[13:21] <Hibby> also, my matlab folder is an abomination
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[13:22] Action: fsphil is installing fedora over the internet .. sloooow
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[13:31] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[14:01] <Zuph> happy fake monday!
[14:01] <fsphil> yay!
[14:02] <Lunar_Lander> lol
[14:02] <Lunar_Lander> hi Zuph, fsphil
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[14:02] <Zuph> morning, Lunar_Lander
[14:03] <Lunar_Lander> is everything good?
[14:03] <eroomde> fake monday?
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[14:04] <Zuph> Presidents Day, you monarchical jerks
[14:05] <Zuph> One of my 8 annual company sanctioned holiday days.
[14:06] <fsphil> hiya Lunar_Lander
[14:06] <costyn> fsphil: when I attended his TEDx launch there wasn't any measuring of neck lift; just when it kinda felt like it was tugging enough they let it go :)
[14:06] <fsphil> that doesn't surprise me costyn :)
[14:07] <eroomde> blah w/e
[14:07] <eroomde> presidents schmesidents
[14:08] <fsphil> Queens Day doesn't sound as good
[14:08] <Zuph> hah
[14:08] <eroomde> we've got it soon though
[14:08] <eroomde> apolitical heads of states are always more revered by, and intimidatingto, foreigners
[14:08] <eroomde> i think that's why they keep her
[14:09] <fsphil> bit of a tourist attraction too
[14:09] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[14:09] <fsphil> although I suppose that's the same thing
[14:09] <Lunar_Lander> they show Trooping the Colour on TV here too
[14:09] <eroomde> really?
[14:09] <eroomde> gosh
[14:09] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[14:10] <eroomde> actually i remember being in france during the queen mother's 100th
[14:10] <eroomde> and they was wall-to-wall
[14:10] <Lunar_Lander> it looks very military
[14:10] <fsphil> it is military
[14:10] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[14:11] <eroomde> but not in the sovient sense
[14:11] <eroomde> unsmiling men in hats while the only three bombers keep doing loops overhead
[14:12] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[14:12] <Lunar_Lander> they didn't show the planes
[14:13] <eroomde> :)
[14:13] <Lunar_Lander> well
[14:13] <Lunar_Lander> time for me to eat something
[14:13] <Lunar_Lander> and then go cycling
[14:13] <Lunar_Lander> don't want to wait again till its dark
[14:14] <costyn> our Queens Day is a reason everybody to go out partying ; usually pretty good parties
[14:14] <fsphil> I went to the Edinburgh Tattoo once, it was a good show
[14:16] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[14:16] <Lunar_Lander> before I go
[14:16] <Lunar_Lander> J.J. Thomson was cool!
[14:16] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[14:18] <Zuph> Man, Presidents day doesn't have any cool parties.
[14:25] <fsphil> start one!
[14:26] <Zuph> I got drunk on cheap wine and expensive bourbon last night, if that counts.
[14:29] <eroomde> bourbon
[14:29] <eroomde> ...
[14:30] <eroomde> is it nice?
[14:30] <eroomde> i am very early on in my whisky adventures and so far it's been whisky (no 'e') only
[14:32] <Zuph> I honestly don't have a lot of experience with Whiskey that isn't Bourbon. It's my liquor of choice, though.
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[14:33] <eroomde> sounds like grounds for a cultural exchange
[14:34] <Zuph> I would find that highly agreeable.
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[14:45] <number10> have you tried lagavulin and lapfroaig yet eroomde ?
[14:45] <number10> -p
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[14:46] <number10> cant spell laphroaig
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[15:08] Nick change: daveake_ -> daveake
[15:21] <daveake> Is this the part of the afternoon where everyone's asleep? :)
[15:21] <CovBalloon> nope
[15:21] <costyn> daveake: yes
[15:21] <daveake> :)
[15:21] <CovBalloon> listening to our monthly cto presentation
[15:21] Action: costyn can type in his sleep
[15:21] <daveake> CovBalloon ought to be asleep by now
[15:21] <CovBalloon> megatrends!
[15:22] Action: costyn is fighting a Cisco router and Juniper SRX and tyring to get them to talk ipsec to eachother
[15:22] Action: daveake snoozes
[15:22] <CovBalloon> top 10 ceo concerns
[15:22] <CovBalloon> he hasnt mentioned gps, electronics, or ballooning
[15:22] <daveake> Silly DHL trying to deliver when I was out :(
[15:23] <daveake> silly man
[15:23] <CovBalloon> I have been considering a cage to trap the royal mail postman who red cards me when I am in the house
[15:23] <costyn> that's I usually have them deliver to my office; always someone here during office hours when they usually deliver packages
[15:24] <Pavix> You'd be amazed what you can do with a CMUCam3, a tazer and a wildlife cage
[15:24] <daveake> Last time the RM guy red-carded me and ran off without knocking, I phoned his depot and got him sent back :D
[15:24] <CovBalloon> nice, will have to try that next time
[15:25] <costyn> why would he leave wihtout knocking? wouldn't he rather be rid of his package?
[15:25] <costyn> (your package?)
[15:25] <Pavix> laziness/
[15:25] <daveake> temp guy. He couldn't give a shit
[15:25] <Pavix> lack of respect
[15:26] <daveake> Still, I did get some other stuff today. New DMM, PSU, PCB workframe, rfm22b ... it's like Xmas even without DHL's contribution :)
[15:26] <Pavix> woohoo!
[15:27] <_Hix> DHL - Drop-it, Hide-it, Lose-it
[15:27] <fsphil> "We keep your packages"
[15:27] <costyn> daveake: so what's the consensus on the rfm22b? is it all singing all dancing replacement for the ntx2?
[15:27] <costyn> _Hix: hehehe
[15:27] <fsphil> you can't do sstv with it :)
[15:27] <Pavix> The UPS guy has been pretty nice recently. I've been leaving a paper on the door asking him to call me when he gets there since the external door has a security code and he has been
[15:28] <costyn> all boxes from one vendor at our office have the 50g shockwatch stickers on them, and without fail they're always tripped
[15:28] <costyn> fsphil: no sstv with rfm22b?
[15:29] <fsphil> it's digital only
[15:29] <costyn> what about ssdv then?
[15:29] <fsphil> depends on how fast it can go
[15:29] <daveake> costyn No, it has plusses and minuses
[15:29] <fsphil> if it can do 300 baud, then yes
[15:29] <fsphil> you *could* do images over 50 baud ...
[15:30] <daveake> Plus: cheaper, lighter, can have the power switched up, can receive
[15:30] <fsphil> receiving could be a key feature
[15:31] <costyn> daveake: so what are the downsides?
[15:31] <daveake> Minus: Needs more code/data space (not good if you're near the CPU limit), needs more CPU pins connected, if it resets (e.g. power glitch) it'll stop Txing unless you check and re-init
[15:32] <daveake> Also plus: Can program the freq in s/w rather than having it fixed
[15:32] <fsphil> that's a big plus
[15:32] <daveake> Indeed. Could be busy this summer
[15:33] <daveake> Saves on stocking multiple NTX2s
[15:33] <eroomde> Minus: low freq resolution
[15:33] <eroomde> so no amatuer mfsk modes
[15:33] <eroomde> apart from 2FSK like rtty
[15:35] <costyn> daveake: ok, so more complex programming
[15:35] <fsphil> what we really need is a frequency and power agile ntx2 :)
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[15:35] <daveake> costyn Yes, though as it's been done (by jcoxon) it's just a cut n'n' paste job
[15:36] <daveake> Only thing I did really was to do the rtty from a timer interrupt 'cos that's the one true way
[15:36] <costyn> daveake: hee ok
[15:36] <daveake> I left an Arduino Mini Pro, Lassen IQ and NTX2 running while I was out this morning. Was more than a bit surprised to see the processor still running and NTX2 still transmitting when I got back, even though the battery was down to 2.1V!
[15:36] <daveake> The Lassen had given up
[15:37] <costyn> well I'll let everyone else get the bugs out before I play with it... still have to launch my first with ntx2; making good progress so far
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[15:37] <daveake> Yeah, don't change if you have that working.
[15:38] <daveake> My rfm22b flight went well; only stopped when it hit the salt water
[15:39] <daveake> I mean the rfm22b stopped. The flight stopped at the time also of course :D
[15:39] <fsphil> daveake, have you tried 300 baud?
[15:39] <fsphil> I remember someone did
[15:39] <daveake> Briefly, but I never get on well with that anyway.
[15:39] <daveake> When the ft790 arrives I'll try again
[15:39] <daveake> I think navrac had it running
[15:41] <daveake> Also I'm going to run some tests at 50 and 300 with jcoxon's code (which sets the Tx frequency) vs navrac's (which adjusts a "frequency offset" register only
[15:41] <daveake> When my DSO arrives I'll do a FFT plt of each :D
[15:41] <daveake> *plot
[15:42] <Hibby> I've got a CompactRio here if anyone needs a 2 grand DAQ with 5 grand worth of modules in it?
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[16:34] <cuddykid> anyone need anything from farewell?
[16:34] <cuddykid> *farnell
[16:35] <cuddykid> silly autocorrect
[16:36] <cuddykid> just to check - is this correct for 220ohm ? -> http://uk.farnell.com/multicomp/mc-0-1w-0805-1-220r/resistor-0805-220r/dp/9332804RL
[16:38] <cuddykid> jeez - I can only buy a min of 50?! I only need 1!
[16:40] <eroomde> search again
[16:40] <eroomde> they'll have the same part availble in singles
[16:40] <Zuph> can never have too many passives around
[16:41] <cuddykid> oh - the price rockets
[16:41] <Zuph> Plus, if you drop that one on the floor, you're screwed.
[16:41] <nigelvh> 220's are especially handy for LEDs
[16:41] <Zuph> Just buy the reel :-p
[16:41] <cuddykid> it would be cheaper to buy 50 @ £0.025 than 10 @ £0.29
[16:41] <eroomde> i would only buy passives like that in 50s too
[16:41] <eroomde> it'll be a 20cm long strip
[16:41] <cuddykid> ahh ok :)
[16:41] <eroomde> no biggie
[16:42] <cuddykid> eroomde: is the link the correct type etc for 0805 220ohm
[16:42] <eroomde> infact, when you need 0805 resistors, it's ofen easier just to buy a complete book of 0805s
[16:42] <eroomde> yep link's fine
[16:42] <cuddykid> brill :) thanks
[16:43] <cuddykid> oh - robs doing well on element 14 by the looks of it
[16:47] <cuddykid> oh, the minimum is now 150 apparently :(
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[16:49] <cuddykid> does it matter if the power rating is 125mW instead of 100mW?
[16:49] <eroomde> cuddykid: link to element 14?
[16:50] <cuddykid> eroomde: http://www.element14.com/community/index.jspa - he's on the home page, top right
[16:50] <eroomde> cuddykid: well, in the name of learning you can try and answer that yourself
[16:50] <eroomde> so, power (P) is equal to voltage (V) multiplied by current (I)
[16:50] <eroomde> P = IV
[16:51] <eroomde> but you can also use ohms law to substitute in things to that
[16:51] <eroomde> so V = IR
[16:51] <eroomde> so sunstituting IR for V in P = IV, you get P = I(IR)
[16:51] <eroomde> P=I^2*R
[16:51] <Laurenceb> "A day in the life as
[16:51] <Laurenceb> an engineer's wife"
[16:51] <eroomde> which is usually the one you want when calculating the power dissipation of your resisters
[16:51] <daveake> Where's it going? In a 5V circuit worst you could do is put it across Vcc-GND, which is 5*5/220 = 113mW
[16:52] <Laurenceb> is that robs new career?
[16:52] <cuddykid> eroomde: got it :P thanks :)
[16:52] <eroomde> but yes, 125mW is probably fine
[16:53] <Dan-K2VOL> haha you guys always get my attention at work when you talk about mW, my chat client reads that aloud as megawatts
[16:53] <cuddykid> yeah comes out about 50mW
[16:53] <daveake> mW mW mW
[16:53] <Dan-K2VOL> and I still wonder who's doing a megawatt anything
[16:53] <eroomde> you have a talking chat client?
[16:53] <cuddykid> massive mW
[16:53] <Dan-K2VOL> haha
[16:53] <daveake> sex porn
[16:53] <Dan-K2VOL> hey now
[16:53] <Dan-K2VOL> :-P
[16:53] <Hibby> The russians are doing megawatts
[16:53] <Dan-K2VOL> eroomde it's adium on osx
[16:53] <Hibby> STAC can handle, physically, anyway, 1.5kW power
[16:54] <Dan-K2VOL> it's very nice for while you're working on your balloon stuff, so you can hear the chatroom
[16:54] <Hibby> down a 22dB antenna set... that'll burn a hole in the sky.
[16:54] <Dan-K2VOL> nice hibby
[16:54] <eroomde> that would drive me mad
[16:54] <Dan-K2VOL> haha
[16:54] <Dan-K2VOL> you don't really hear much except your own name and megawatts after a while
[16:54] <Dan-K2VOL> when you're not paying attention
[16:55] <Hibby> Jesus Dan, keep up!
[16:55] <daveake> I'm sure it's not true but there was a story going round when I was at GEC about an engineer who ordered a 100mW transformer, and got a call from security asking where he wanted this 100MW transformer put and how was he going to get it off the truck?
[16:55] <Dan-K2VOL> haha nice
[16:55] <cuddykid> eroomde: does it matter much if tolerance is +/- 5%?
[16:55] <eroomde> it matters if it matters
[16:55] <daveake> Depends what you're going to do with it
[16:55] <cuddykid> lol
[16:56] <eroomde> i'm being very helpful at the moment
[16:56] <eroomde> i know
[16:56] <cuddykid> haha :P
[16:56] <eroomde> but obviously it depends on your application
[16:56] <daveake> cuddykid you need to find out how to find out without asking
[16:56] <cuddykid> just using them for voltage divider for radio mark/space
[16:56] <daveake> It's fine
[16:56] <cuddykid> lol daveake
[16:56] <daveake> A 5% error is just going to change the shift a little
[16:56] <eroomde> if you're using the resistor to measure current (by measuring the voltage drop across it) then obviously it's quite critical
[16:56] <cuddykid> does tolerance just mean how much they will vary from their "set" value?
[16:57] <eroomde> you can buy 0.1% and less resistors for that
[16:57] <daveake> s/will/can
[16:57] <eroomde> if it's a pullup resistor, who cares?
[16:57] <eroomde> as long as it's something high like 10kohm, doesn't matter
[16:57] <cuddykid> 2.2k
[16:57] <eroomde> value doesn't matter
[16:57] <eroomde> application does
[16:58] <eroomde> war not make someone great
[16:58] <eroomde> sorry about that
[16:58] <eroomde> so, what are you using the 2.2k resistor for?
[16:58] <Laurenceb> lolwut
[16:58] <Laurenceb> do you work for farnell or something
[16:58] <cuddykid> eroomde: just voltage divider for ntx2 - space/mark
[16:58] <Laurenceb> i see their expert is Jeri Ellsworth now
[16:59] <eroomde> cuddykid: ok, it's for setting the frequency on the radio
[16:59] <fsphil> anyone who can make a C64 SOC is an expert in my book :)
[16:59] <eroomde> so, the question you want to ask is, if i'm 5% out on my resistor, how does that affect the frequency on the radio?
[16:59] <daveake> cuddykid any tolerances in the NTX2 m/s bit is just going to change the shift a bit. Since that changes anyway with temperature, it matters not
[16:59] <eroomde> and is that frequency deviation acceptable to me?
[17:00] <eroomde> to whixch i would say, not really
[17:00] <eroomde> as daveake just said
[17:00] <cuddykid> cool, thanks :)
[17:00] <eroomde> but it would be a good exercise to do the sums yourself
[17:00] <cuddykid> yes
[17:00] <eroomde> or at least when you get the ntx2, measure voltage in vs freq out
[17:00] <eroomde> that'd be interesting anyway to see how linear the voltage controlled oscillator is
[17:00] <daveake> So if you're aiming at 400Hz, and you get a 5% error, you could be anywhere from 380 to 420Hz. So would you care about that?
[17:01] <cuddykid> not at all daveake :P
[17:01] <eroomde> although the error might not map like that as it's in a potential divider
[17:01] <daveake> Indeed
[17:01] <eroomde> i kinow you know, just saying for completeness
[17:01] <daveake> I was careful not at any point to say that a 5% resistor error would give a 5% change :D
[17:01] <eroomde> but yeah, that'd be worst case and it's small bananas
[17:02] <eroomde> but equally cuddykid, if you wanted in the future to do something like dominoex, you need to be able to set the tones within about 10hz of where they need to be
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[17:02] <eroomde> and then of course you really would have to start looking at accuracy of your parts
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[17:02] <eroomde> and temp drifts and so on
[17:03] <daveake> cuddykid What I do is make up the divider with values giving a bit less than my target (typically 425Hz) then stick different large Rs across the R from the Arduino till I get close to 425
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[17:03] <eroomde> you could use pcb-mount pots too
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[17:03] <Laurenceb> thats what i used
[17:04] <Laurenceb> for mfsk64
[17:04] <eroomde> someone needs to help them out of that element 14 forum
[17:05] <eroomde> there is all sorts of bollocks and confusion
[17:05] <eroomde> http://www.element14.com/community/thread/16480?start=15&tstart=0
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[17:06] <eroomde> no one seems to have read the rules which mention the ofcom limits and link to IF2030 either
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[17:07] <russss> wow, they're all pretty confused there
[17:08] <russss> "Effective Incidet Radiated Power (EIRP)"...if you say so.
[17:10] <zyp> what? does that even make sense?
[17:11] <Hibby> Incident, maybe?
[17:11] <Hibby> along the lines of angle of incidence of radiation
[17:11] <eroomde> and yet they still keep talking about dishes on the ground
[17:12] <NigelMoby> dishes....Lols
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[17:12] <eroomde> if eirp is your limit, rather than the voltage swing out of your amplifier, then it only makes things harder to go for anything other than an omni
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[17:16] <eroomde> maybe rob will get a chance to swoop in and write a few paragraphs clearing it all up
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[17:17] <_Hix> How do people measure the volume of Helium for a fill? Flow rate / time?
[17:17] <eroomde> neck lift
[17:17] <daveake> neck... too slow
[17:17] <eroomde> in 95% of cases
[17:18] <eroomde> cusf have a nice calibrated He flow meter now though
[17:18] <eroomde> so you can say 'give me 200 moles' and then just go off and do spomething else
[17:19] <eroomde> it is as yet uncomission tho
[17:19] <eroomde> comissioned*
[17:19] <_Hix> I was thinking along the liines of a MAF sensor from a car injection system - they have to be pretty accurate for emmisions and fuelling
[17:21] <eroomde> that's exactly what this is
[17:21] <eroomde> if you can calibrate it, go for it
[17:22] <jonsowman> it's getting there eroomde
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[17:33] <_Hix> so at the moment peoples calcs are done using neck lift to gauge ascent rate?
[17:34] <daveake> The burst altitude calculator gives you the He volume (so you can buy enough) and neck lift (to measure). You give it the ascent rate or burst altitude as an input
[17:34] <SpeedEvil> Pretty much
[17:35] <SpeedEvil> If you assume the shape is constant, the differntial pressure in the balloon is ~0, then the ascent rate is more-or-less constant
[17:36] <SpeedEvil> Those assumptions are pretty good - up till it floats.
[17:37] <daveake> Yep. Also at the start, for large/floppy balloons, it's a bit lower till it gets a more aerodynamic shape
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[18:04] <nigelvh> BTW, last night I got around to testing the frequency response of my HX1 module. I put the info on the wiki on the radio modules page.
[18:05] <eroomde> could you provide a link here for now and log-searching posterity?
[18:05] <costyn> 2 questions: how do you guys mount/fasten your ceramic patch antenna's? double sided tape or something? and what thickness polystyrene is recommended for a simple square payload box?
[18:05] <nigelvh> http://www.ukhas.org.uk/guides:radio_modules
[18:06] <eroomde> CONCRETE
[18:06] <eroomde> usually the patch antennas are potted in some kind of black enclosure
[18:07] <eroomde> in which case, tape over the top or whatever
[18:07] <eroomde> there is benefit to putting this potted antenna on a ground plane though
[18:07] <eroomde> say, at least 5 x 5cm sheet of ali/foil
[18:07] <eroomde> if you literally just mean the ceramic patch antenna, you usually pcb mount those
[18:07] <eroomde> again, on a big ground plane of say 5 x 5 cm
[18:08] <eroomde> as for polystyrene, whatever
[18:08] <eroomde> if it's structural, maybe thicker like an inch
[18:08] <eroomde> if it's just insulation, whatever you want
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[18:08] <nigelvh> We generally use 1" foam.
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[18:09] <nigelvh> plus lots of duct tape
[18:09] <eroomde> that can cause shrivalage, nb
[18:09] <eroomde> using duct tape
[18:10] <eroomde> the gas in the foam cells will equalise in pressure with the outside on the nice slow ascent
[18:10] <nigelvh> Mind clarifying? I've never had an issue with duct tape. Then again, it's never totally sealed.
[18:10] <eroomde> but when you come down, much much faster, the duct tape is a big barrier to the pressure equalising fast enough and you foam starts to compress
[18:11] <daveake> Shrivelled like in this - http://www.daveakerman.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/IMG_3000-768x1024.jpg (the payload; not me)
[18:11] <nigelvh> Perhaps you're using ligher weight stuff. I use high density foam like you find in house insulation. I assume you're talking about the foam you'd find in a cheap cooler.
[18:12] <eroomde> the higher density heavier foam (often blue) is fine
[18:12] <eroomde> but it's a lot heavier
[18:12] <eroomde> oh there's also the pink oasis-like stuff
[18:12] <costyn> eroomde: well I have a GPS bee with a separate antenna on a pcb, but there's no holes or antyhing which I can use to fasten it; would a ground plane still be necessary? http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/embedded-antenna-ufl-for-gps-p-564.html?cPath=139_143
[18:12] <nigelvh> Yes, it is a bit heavier. We use the pink stuff.
[18:13] <eroomde> costyn: it will help
[18:13] <daveake> costyn yes, it'll help
[18:13] <nigelvh> Because we all know pink is better
[18:13] <eroomde> doesn't have to be electrically connected
[18:13] <eroomde> just stick that unit down onto ofit
[18:13] <costyn> eroomde: got it, thx
[18:15] <Upu> daveake that pink tape I used didn't do that squishy thing
[18:15] <daveake> My last payload didn't either
[18:15] <costyn> Upu: was it gaffer/cloth tape?
[18:15] <Upu> wonder if it breathes better, its a cloth tape not a plasticy one
[18:15] <daveake> I think it's 'cos that first one came down quickl
[18:15] <Upu> its gaffer tape
[18:15] <Upu> but not shiny
[18:15] <costyn> the proper 'gaffer' tape then :)
[18:16] <costyn> hard to find and expensive :)
[18:16] <nigelvh> Interesting theory. Perhaps wrap one half in true duct tape, the other in gaffer tape, and drop it from a plane.
[18:16] <Upu> £12 a roll I think
[18:16] <Upu> worth it though
[18:16] <Upu> also spend 18 hours in the north sea and I could probably fly it again
[18:16] <costyn> yea I used to have a roll but someone permanently borrowed it from me
[18:17] <daveake> Less than 2 hours for mine, and that will fly again
[18:17] <costyn> nigelvh: are there 2 versions of the ntx2? 3v and 5v?
[18:18] <nigelvh> I don't have any of the ntx2s. I was testing on the HX1 (at the bottom of the page).
[18:18] <costyn> ah
[18:18] <costyn> I guess someone else wrote that
[18:18] <nigelvh> Yep.
[18:18] <nigelvh> I just plagiarized their formatting.
[18:18] <eroomde> costyn: there are not
[18:18] <eroomde> just one
[18:18] <daveake> costyn No the NTX2 has its own reg and will run from ~3V (I forget exactly) up
[18:19] <eroomde> 2.8V internal regulator
[18:19] <eroomde> 3-15V input (or something like that)
[18:19] <eroomde> just depends on how much you want to heat the payload i guess
[18:19] <eroomde> hrm
[18:19] <costyn> daveake: aah
[18:19] <eroomde> there's a though
[18:19] <eroomde> ovenised ntx2
[18:19] <eroomde> wrap it in lots of thermal insulation and supply it with 12v
[18:19] <costyn> hehe yea
[18:20] <eroomde> that would solve the freq drift problem
[18:21] <daveake> Insulation will help, but I don't think heating it will unless you adjust the voltage in a feedback loop.
[18:21] <eroomde> it'd reach equilbrium soon enough
[18:21] <eroomde> you'd have to turn it on for 30 mins or so before flight
[18:21] <daveake> But it will cool down as the ext temp drops
[18:21] <eroomde> depends on how good your insulation is
[18:22] <Upu> put the vreg under the crystal ?
[18:22] <daveake> I think insulation X and heating Y will just give you Z degrees difference between inside and outside
[18:22] <eroomde> i suspect it would take much to make it good enough
[18:22] <daveake> Probably
[18:22] <eroomde> i don't think so
[18:23] <daveake> I think someone has done a temp controlled oven for the NTX2
[18:23] <eroomde> o rly?
[18:24] <eroomde> we once wrapped ours in about 6 layers of foil-backed foam
[18:24] <daveake> Might be imagining it, but I thouught I read here that someone had
[18:24] <eroomde> then heatshrank it
[18:24] <eroomde> to make the radio suasage
[18:24] <eroomde> it was solid as a rock
[18:24] <daveake> Nice
[18:24] <costyn> eroomde: did it help?
[18:24] <eroomde> on my current mini tracker there's a temp sensor underneath the ntx2
[18:24] <eroomde> for freq comp
[18:25] <eroomde> costyn: yes
[18:25] <eroomde> it helped a lot
[18:25] <eroomde> i remember people commenting that they didn't have to touch their radio dials at all throughout the flight
[18:26] <eroomde> i guess actually a feedback loop to oven control an ntx2 wouldn't be too tricky either
[18:27] <eroomde> pwm to a fet and low valued resistor
[18:27] <daveake> easy peesy
[18:27] <eroomde> i think i'll have to give that a go
[18:27] <eroomde> just hope the power requirements aren't too huge
[18:28] <eroomde> i was looking at this for measuring differential pressure in balloons at 40+km
[18:29] <eroomde> when i did some sums it looked like the only way to get anything meaningful for those tiny delats was a really low noise analog circuit with a very good instrumentation amp (120dB ish CMRR) and an ovenised differential pressure transducer
[18:29] <daveake> My little rfm22b payload used about 1/3rd of a watt, and maintained the internals at 20C above ambient when inside the foam
[18:29] <eroomde> 300mW is really high though
[18:29] <eroomde> annoylingly
[18:30] <daveake> yep
[18:30] <eroomde> but i guess if you're just trying to keep warm a much smaller mass/volume which is very highly insulated, you might have more luck?
[18:30] <eroomde> dunno really
[18:31] <eroomde> the diff pressure sensor was still £80 annoyingly
[18:31] <daveake> eek
[18:31] <eroomde> even though it was crap relative to what we were asking of it
[18:31] <eroomde> but i so want to see what casuses this altitude bouncing during float
[18:32] <cuddykid> right, I need to make up another £14 - anyone need anything from farnell?
[18:33] <nigelvh> eroomde: Why are you using a differential pressure sensor?
[18:33] <eroomde> to measure the difference between the pressure inside the balloon and outside the balloon
[18:33] <eroomde> to study how they become super pressure
[18:34] <eroomde> and it should also give you clues about the altitude oscillation during float
[18:34] <_Hix> @<cuddykid> do you know if you register a debit account at RS you get free delivery with no order min?
[18:34] <nigelvh> I see. I suppose if you got cheaper sensors, you could just run two. I don't generally measure the balloon pressure, but these are the sensors I use: http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/ASDXACX015PAAA5/480-3301-ND/2178290
[18:34] <_Hix> or is it that they don't stock what you were ordfering
[18:34] <eroomde> ah no
[18:35] <cuddykid> _Hix: oh right, what's RS?
[18:35] <eroomde> let's say you have a balloon pressure x1
[18:35] <eroomde> and an outside pressure x2
[18:35] <eroomde> and x1 - x2 = something really tiny
[18:35] <eroomde> like 10Pa
[18:35] <cuddykid> _Hix: RS components?
[18:35] <eroomde> well, the accuracy of those sensors is not going to be anywhere near 10Pa
[18:36] <nigelvh> Yeah. You need something kinda special for that.
[18:36] <nigelvh> We just like the sensors because the output is linear, and they're vacuum referenced and will go to 0.
[18:36] <eroomde> so subtracting their measurements will give you an error (noise) that is far larger than the signal you are trying to measure
[18:36] <eroomde> that'soften why differnetial sensors are used vs 2 absolutes
[18:37] <nigelvh> Makes good sense.
[18:37] <_Hix> yeah
[18:37] <_Hix> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/
[18:37] <eroomde> and if you look they're 15Pa sensors
[18:37] <eroomde> to atmospheric at sea leve
[18:37] <eroomde> we want to measure stuff with accuracy of about 10Pa
[18:38] <eroomde> which is 10Pa/sea_level_in_pa = 10/101000
[18:38] <eroomde> = 0.01% accuracy required
[18:38] <cuddykid> _Hix: thanks :D
[18:38] <eroomde> which you aint gonna get from that
[18:38] <eroomde> which is a shame really
[18:39] <eroomde> well, not unless you do things like really optimise the measurement circuit electronics, and ovenise, and so on
[18:39] <nigelvh> That's what you get for trying to be fancy.
[18:39] <eroomde> :)
[18:39] <eroomde> instrumentation is fascinating really
[18:39] <eroomde> can be so tricky
[18:40] <nigelvh> I agree with both of those statements.
[18:40] <_Hix> https://uk.rs-online.com/web/generalDisplay.html?id=openAccount choose direct debit and they'll ask you for company info - if you have - fine if not - just ask for a cash payment account helen.james@rs-components.com is the one i delat with
[18:40] <eroomde> so i would like to have a go at a really sensitive differential pressure sensor just for the fun aswell as to find out
[18:41] <eroomde> it would be a 24bit ADC, a really good, very high common mode rejction ratio instrumentation amp, really clean stable +/- 15V supply, and ovenised differential pressure sensor
[18:41] <eroomde> and some attemp at lab calibration
[18:42] <eroomde> i think you could have a go with those big lab syringes
[18:42] <nigelvh> Really all you gotta do is calibrate where equal is, which is easy, then find a way to precisely reference one above the other, (harder)
[18:42] <eroomde> one syring to each input
[18:42] <eroomde> syringe*
[18:43] <eroomde> and then move one plunger out by some small but meausreable amount
[18:43] <eroomde> where you calc what the pressurew change should be
[18:43] <nigelvh> Why do you need two? One port to air pressure. The syringe will start at air pressure, and then you'll move it and increase/decrease the pressure relative.
[18:43] <eroomde> and record the readings
[18:43] <eroomde> sorry yes you're quite right
[18:43] <eroomde> am just thinking live (and poorly)
[18:43] <nigelvh> Two just makes it more complicated.
[18:43] <eroomde> just one is sufficient
[18:44] <nigelvh> That should actually be relatively easy, if you know the volume change, then you should be able to calculate the pressure change.
[18:44] <eroomde> tis my thinking
[18:44] <eroomde> i just don't know what the errors on that would be though
[18:45] <nigelvh> Yeah, but you could do it several times and see if they come out nice.
[18:45] <eroomde> doyou care about adiabatic expansion when you're changing volumes by tiny tiny amounts?
[18:45] <eroomde> probably not
[18:45] <eroomde> but will need to sit down and try and figure out where all the noise might be anyway
[18:45] <eroomde> the biggest problem will be EMI in the lab, i think
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[18:45] <eroomde> bridges, where you're measuring tiny changes, really pick up emi
[18:46] <nigelvh> Yes, circuit noise will be a player here. Perhaps use coaxial cables to connect the stages.
[18:46] <eroomde> definitely
[18:47] <eroomde> but it's the bridge in the sensor itself that'll be killer
[18:47] <eroomde> i can filter everything coming onto the pcb easily enough
[18:47] <eroomde> i'll have to shield the entire unit
[18:47] <eroomde> except the tubes have to get in somehow
[18:48] <eroomde> hopefully they'll be small enough to not notice
[18:48] <nigelvh> Yeah, I would just initially try for some adhesive backed foil.
[18:48] <nigelvh> See what that gets you.
[18:49] <eroomde> well i'll want to insulate it well anyway
[18:49] <eroomde> as it'll be ovenised
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[18:49] <eroomde> as 1 degree celcius change will probably swamp the signal anyway
[18:49] <eroomde> maybe
[18:49] <nigelvh> Multiple opportunities to shield it.
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[18:50] <eroomde> you're right
[18:50] <eroomde> should be ok then
[18:50] <eroomde> finger crossed
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[18:50] <eroomde> right, home time
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[18:50] <cuddykid> oh awesome - there's an RS collection depot nearby :D
[18:51] <nigelvh> Have fun
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[18:52] <cuddykid> this is awesome :D
[18:52] <cuddykid> screw maplins from now on :P
[18:53] <cuddykid> Laurenceb: was it you who collected stuff from the nottingham RS depot?
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[18:55] Action: SpeedEvil ponders digging the polystyrene sheet that got solarised and went wonky out of the bin.
[18:55] <cuddykid> what do I put as "Your Order Number" in the RS collection page?
[18:55] Action: SpeedEvil ponders DIY expanded polystyrene.
[18:55] <SpeedEvil> cuddykid: whatever you want
[18:55] <cuddykid> I haven't ordered yet, so I don't have an order number :S
[18:56] <SpeedEvil> It's for people doing a _lot_ of buisness.
[18:56] <SpeedEvil> You can put 'balloon 3'
[18:56] <cuddykid> oh, I see!
[18:56] <cuddykid> got it :D
[18:56] <SpeedEvil> and then it gets mailed to the right department
[18:56] <cuddykid> 'GCHQ Secret Project Components 1"
[18:56] <nigelvh> "Not a bomb"
[18:56] <cuddykid> lol
[18:57] <nigelvh> "totally safe. Trust me"
[18:57] <cuddykid> ordered :D
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[18:58] <cuddykid> 250 resistors coming my way :P
[18:58] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[18:59] <nigelvh> Yo
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[19:02] <costyn> cuddykid: what do you need 250 for? or is it one of those assortment packs?
[19:02] <cuddykid> 5x 50
[19:02] <cuddykid> different resistor values and surface mount ones
[19:03] <Lunar_Lander> how much did they cost?
[19:03] <cuddykid> only came to £4 including 5 capacitors too
[19:03] <cuddykid> around £0.50 for 50
[19:03] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[19:07] <fsphil> mmm pancakes
[19:07] <Lunar_Lander> yay
[19:07] <Lunar_Lander> is wrap good too?
[19:09] <fsphil> what's that?
[19:14] <Lunar_Lander> that is like pancake filled with meat and stuff and then you close it up
[19:14] <Lunar_Lander> it's from Mexico I think
[19:14] <Lunar_Lander> there https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandwich_wrap
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[19:17] <fsphil> i've not tried anything like that
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:17] <fsphil-laptop> I'm not brave when it comes to food :)
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[19:17] <Zuph> hah
[19:18] <Zuph> It's just a burrito with less delicious insides :-p
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[19:18] <Zuph> And nothing like a pancake
[19:18] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:18] <Zuph> Unless pancakes in German are weird :-p
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> xD no, not really
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> the austrian word for pancakes is Palatschinken
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> and Schinken is normally the word for ham
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> so I was irritated that Palatschinken is a dessert
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> but then I heard that they are just pancakes
[19:20] <Zuph> Oh, I mean, Unless pancakes in Germany are weird.
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> no
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> but I saw american pancakes
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> that they are like stacked in a tower
[19:20] <Zuph> hah
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> and then butter and syrup on top
[19:20] <Zuph> Yes.
[19:21] <fsphil-laptop> yikes
[19:21] <fsphil-laptop> these where flat, but I did put a little bit of syrup on it
[19:22] <Zuph> Unless you're truly hungover, the "tower" is just one or two pancakes.
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:23] <nigelvh> Most of us don't eat that many pancakes. One or two is pretty normal.
[19:23] <SpeedEvil> I often make a stack from 3kg of ingredients.
[19:23] <SpeedEvil> I then freeze.
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[19:24] <BrainDamage> damn, I tought you' bake a giant pie
[19:24] <BrainDamage> you'd*
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[19:24] <joph> Zuph, i think it depends on the location where you get them ;)
[19:25] <Zuph> joph: Are you trying to tell me that the International House of Pancakes is not as international as I was led to believe?
[19:26] <nigelvh> Yes.
[19:26] <joph> international house of pancakes? wow :D
[19:26] <fsphil-laptop> a house made of pancakes?
[19:26] <joph> never heard of them before
[19:26] <joph> :D
[19:26] <Dan-K2VOL> I would live there
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[19:27] <Zuph> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IHOP
[19:27] <nigelvh> Trust me, you don't want to live at an IHOP
[19:27] <joph> i'm not from north america ;)
[19:27] <BrainDamage> fsphil-laptop: that spans across country borders
[19:27] <Dan-K2VOL> haha
[19:27] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> well
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> when you look into the phone book there is this "Restaurant" section
[19:27] <nigelvh> Most people don't even want to eat at an IHOP
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> under "Dutch" there is "Das Pfannkuchenhaus"
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[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> which means "The Pancake House"
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[19:28] <joph> nigelvh, why? tell :D
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> hi daveake_
[19:28] Nick change: daveake_ -> daveake
[19:28] <daveake> evening
[19:29] <nigelvh> They tend to be dirty, and don't generally have great food. Also they tend to be filled with the type of people you'd hate to have to sit next to on a bus/subway.
[19:29] <Zuph> Well, *I* enjoy the occasional visit to IHOP. I'm sure my doctor doesn't....
[19:29] <joph> i think every nation has it's "own" international house of sth ;)
[19:29] <daveake> mmPancakes
[19:29] <Lunar_Lander> but Cheesecake Factory is cool!
[19:30] <joph> isn't that from big bang theory? :D
[19:30] <nigelvh> I have heard that Cheescake Factory is better, however, I've never been to one.
[19:30] <Lunar_Lander> yes!
[19:30] <daveake> Just had 3 with chilli for "main course", and 1 with maple syrup and 2 with lemon/sugar for "afters" :)
[19:30] <Zuph> Cheesecake Factory is overpriced :-\
[19:30] <Lunar_Lander> and Subway?
[19:30] <nigelvh> I have also heard that.
[19:30] <Lunar_Lander> the franchise system isn't liked by german owners
[19:30] <nigelvh> Subway is generally decent. I get their tuna sandwiches.
[19:31] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:31] <Lunar_Lander> so people who used to own a subway converted to their own chain
[19:31] <joph> are there also a lot of kebap shops in america?
[19:31] <Zuph> joph: lol
[19:32] <nigelvh> Not that I've seen.
[19:32] <Dan-K2VOL> nigelvh, where are you
[19:32] Jasperw (~jasperw@2001:470:92f1:0:223:5aff:fef5:cce) joined #highaltitude.
[19:32] <nigelvh> Seattle, WA
[19:32] <Dan-K2VOL> ah so you aren't the same NigelMoby
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[19:33] <nigelvh> No, there's more than one Nigel on here apparently. Which is new to me.
[19:33] <Zuph> joph: Anything resembling German Doner Kebab is unheard of here.
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[19:34] <joph> here in germany are in nearly all citys more than 5 kebap shops ;)
[19:34] <Lunar_Lander> xD yea
[19:34] <Zuph> joph: I'm in a city of 1.5+ million, I can count on one hand the number of restaurants that serve Shish Kebab.
[19:34] <joph> wow
[19:35] <Zuph> Granted, they're all delicious, but it isn't exactly common.
[19:35] <cuddykid> oh wow - in under 24 hrs, package has gone from NV -> KY -> PA -> over the pond -> UK!
[19:35] <Lunar_Lander> yay
[19:35] <Lunar_Lander> FedEx?
[19:35] <cuddykid> UPS
[19:35] <cuddykid> incredible
[19:35] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:35] <cuddykid> so efficient
[19:35] <cuddykid> should be delivered tomorrow I guess
[19:36] <Zuph> joph: But on the flip side, I bet it's impossible to find a good Taco in Germany.
[19:36] <joph> yeah, that's true
[19:36] <fsphil-laptop> I'm not sure what a Taco is? (too lazy to google)
[19:37] <nigelvh> Tortilla with meat, cheese, and vegetables.
[19:37] <fsphil-laptop> ah ha
[19:37] <fsphil-laptop> also, euuu
[19:37] <joph> in this city with a population of around 70000 people i just know one of this kind of shops
[19:37] <nigelvh> Same as a burrito, and every other kind of mexican food.
[19:37] <nigelvh> At least "americanized" mexican food.
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[19:38] <cuddykid> yum
[19:39] <Zuph> You really aren't brave, fsphil-laptop
[19:42] <nigelvh> Mexican food is tasty...
[19:43] <daveake> fsphil-laptop Tacos can have onion too
[19:43] <fsphil-laptop> yay atlantic ocean :)
[19:44] <daveake> I had a pelican curry yesterday. Tasted good but the bill was enormous.
[19:44] <fsphil-laptop> ooch
[19:44] Action: fsphil-laptop hands daveake his coat :p
[19:44] Action: daveake grabs coat
[19:44] <number10> tex mex maybe - have you tried mexican mole nigelvh ?
[19:45] <nigelvh> I have not
[19:46] <number10> well i tried that while working at SEMSA in mexico city - chocolate and chilli source over chicken
[19:46] <Zuph> Delicious.
[19:46] <number10> not the best thing I have tried
[19:46] <eroomde> there's a big gap in the map of rs depots right where i live
[19:46] <eroomde> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/generalDisplay.html?id=branchNetwork
[19:46] <Zuph> I try to stick to Mexican restaurants where I'm in the ethnic minority.
[19:48] <nigelvh> The girl and I are happy to go get tasty americanized mexican food.
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[20:15] <Laurenceb_> sup
[20:15] Action: Laurenceb_ returns to the epic saga of trying to install eagle6
[20:15] <Laurenceb_> im trying this: http://www.mail-archive.com/haproxy@formilux.org/msg06137.html
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[20:15] <Laurenceb_> i get as far as step2
[20:16] <Laurenceb_> 4 out of 4 hunks FAILED
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[20:34] <Upu> Install Eagle ? double click setup.exe come back in 5 mins ?
[20:34] <Upu> sorry couldn't resist
[20:34] <daveake> :D
[20:35] <daveake> That's silly
[20:35] <daveake> Doesn't take anywhere near 5 mins
[20:35] <Upu> true
[20:35] <Laurenceb_> takes 9 second shere
[20:35] <Upu> What disty are you using ?
[20:35] <Laurenceb_> i tried filling a file with /dev/random and saving it to /lib/libssl.so-1.0.0
[20:36] <Laurenceb_> but it still broke :(
[20:36] <Laurenceb_> lucid
[20:36] <Laurenceb_> i need libssl.so-1.0.0
[20:36] <Upu> Debian ?
[20:36] <Laurenceb_> ubuntu
[20:36] <Laurenceb_> 10.04lts
[20:36] <Upu> oh Ubuntu
[20:36] <Upu> yay my fave
[20:36] <Upu> not
[20:36] <Upu> Mint is basically the same isn't it ?
[20:36] <Laurenceb_> can anyone grab me a copy of the file?
[20:37] <Laurenceb_> yes
[20:37] <Upu> 32 or 64 bit ?
[20:37] <Laurenceb_> 32
[20:37] <Upu> k 1 sec
[20:37] <Laurenceb_> ive tried building from source but ubuntu edit the makefile
[20:37] <Laurenceb_> to get that lib
[20:37] <Laurenceb_> i cant find the right makefile anywhere
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[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> hello Upu, Laurenceb_, richardf, daveake
[20:42] <richardf> Hi there
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[20:43] <Laurenceb_> Upu: any luck?
[20:43] <Upu> almost
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[20:44] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/files/libssl.so.1.0.0.gz
[20:44] <Upu> from a Mint system
[20:44] <Laurenceb_> thanks XD
[20:44] <Upu> was down /lib/x86_64-linux-gbu
[20:44] <Upu> hopefully its not actually 64 bit
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[20:45] <Upu> evening Lunar
[20:45] <fsphil-laptop> jpeg: because a sane format is a boring format
[20:45] <Laurenceb_> libssl.so.1.0.0: wrong ELF class: ELFCLASS64
[20:46] <Upu> doh
[20:46] <Laurenceb_> :P
[20:46] <Upu> err thinks
[20:46] <Laurenceb_> do you have 32bit
[20:46] <Upu> I'll install it give me 30 mins
[20:46] <Laurenceb_> thanks XD
[20:49] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: did you have any look at direct passthrough for gps front end to usb?
[20:49] <Laurenceb_> yes
[20:49] <Laurenceb_> 4Msps looks possible
[20:49] <eroomde> i.e. just being a not-£300-version of gn3s sampler v3
[20:49] <Laurenceb_> 8 is not possible with usb
[20:49] <Laurenceb_> on f4
[20:50] <Laurenceb_> i havnt benchmarked usb serial, but ive banchmarked my mass storage code
[20:50] <Laurenceb_> that gets over 1Mbps
[20:50] <Laurenceb_> *MByte/sec
[20:50] <Laurenceb_> hubs slow it down a lot
[20:51] <Laurenceb_> teensy avr stick gets 1.2MByte/sec with usb serial
[20:51] <Laurenceb_> so it should be possible
[20:51] <SpeedEvil> Unrelated to anything - http://b3ta.com/questions/randomactsofevil/post1537860 - for those familiar with fibreglass
[20:55] <Laurenceb_> obviously theres other ways to do it, but data chucked out of a usb serial port would be nice
[20:56] <SpeedEvil> SD card?
[20:56] <SpeedEvil> That'd be interesting.
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> can you get SD cards in england in shops? here there is mostly only SDHC
[20:58] <Upu> 2Gb or less are normally SD
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:58] <Upu> Only Transcend do normal SD cards in 4Gb
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> and all others normal SD?
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> like SanDisk and so on
[20:59] <Upu> And they are actually MMC ones
[20:59] <Upu> SDHC
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> that is why the slot says SD/MMC?
[20:59] <Laurenceb_> yeah, they dont work with fatfs :P
[20:59] <Upu> yep
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:59] <Laurenceb_> or at least you need to init them twice for some reason
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> and the other slot is CF
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> the balloon team who launches at the Ham Radio fair used CF on their first balloons
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> in 2004 and 2005
[21:00] <Upu> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Transcend-4GB-Industrial-Grade-MMC-Plus-Multi-Media-Card-/290658745004?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_PDAsAccessories_MemoryCards&hash=item43ac9c7aac
[21:00] <Upu> rocking horse doo doo
[21:00] <fsphil> isn't CF relatively complex to interface with?
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> but the slot that makes me laugh is "SM/XD"
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> :D
[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> thanks Upu
[21:02] <Upu> Reason I know that is Audi MMI doesn't take SD HC cards
[21:03] <Upu> so I got those only to find no matter what the capacity you can only have 200 files per card
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[21:04] <Laurenceb_> fail
[21:04] <Laurenceb_> maybe they used fatfs
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> Upu thanks that made the trick, I searched "1 GB SD" on ebay and found one
[21:04] <fsphil-laptop> some sd cards are faked, only have a small percentage of the capacity they advertise
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[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> there is a german dealer and he got SanDisk cards
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> are these OK?
[21:06] <fsphil-laptop> usually
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:06] <fsphil-laptop> I've got some sandisk usb cards, work fine but are very slow
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> sparkfun also has some
[21:06] <fsphil-laptop> but I've got sandisk CF cards that work very well
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> but people say they are from "JONY"
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> obviously counterfeit
[21:07] <fsphil-laptop> Just beware of FONY and PRETENDO
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[21:08] <Laurenceb_> lol
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[21:08] <cuddykid> Laurenceb_: have you picked up from RS components before in notts?
[21:08] <MLow> hey yallll
[21:08] <fsphil-laptop> tis MLow !
[21:08] <MLow> cuddykid: hi hi!
[21:08] <Laurenceb_> cuddykid: yeah
[21:08] <daveake> Have ordered some conformal spray for my next sea landing :)
[21:08] <cuddykid> g'day MLow!
[21:08] <MLow> fsphil-laptop: yoo
[21:08] <MLow> car seems fine
[21:08] <Laurenceb_> cuddykid: they take ages to deliver - theres nothing in stock there
[21:08] <MLow> seems....a bit more jumpy
[21:08] <cuddykid> Laurenceb_: will be picking my stuff up on thurs :D
[21:09] <MLow> like from stop, a slight tap on the gas takes it off like a rocket
[21:09] <Laurenceb_> ok they should have it by then
[21:09] <cuddykid> got a call to say they need to delay it by a day as not in stock
[21:09] <MLow> smooth gear transitions though
[21:09] <nigelvh> What happened with your car MLow?
[21:10] <MLow> drained the atf instead of oil
[21:10] <MLow> so i drove like 200ft with 2x oil and 0x atf
[21:10] <Lunar_Lander> oh yea Upu what I wanted to ask
[21:10] <Lunar_Lander> what audi do you drive?
[21:10] <nigelvh> 200ft shouldn't be bad.
[21:10] <MLow> i belched smoke so i killed it
[21:10] <Upu> A4 Avant Lunar_Lander
[21:10] <Upu> Quattro one
[21:10] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> and what was the malfunction?
[21:11] <Upu> previous idiot, sorry mean owner remapped it
[21:11] <MLow> corrected levels and it seemed sluggish, drove it a bit since then and now it seems BETTER than before, smoother gear transitions and really jumpy in 1st
[21:11] <nigelvh> Probably what happened was it dumped the extra oil out, perhaps onto the muffler, causing the smoke
[21:11] <MLow> like peppy in 1st
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> what does remapping mean?
[21:11] <nigelvh> Yeah, new transmission fluid can certainly help
[21:11] <MLow> yeah its all new now lol
[21:12] <MLow> 15k miles on it though, i figured atf last longer
[21:12] <Upu> messing with the onboard computer to increase turbo boost pressure, fuel etc
[21:12] <MLow> i think that was the first oil change too that shit was black and sparkly :S
[21:12] <Upu> can increase the power quite dramatically
[21:12] <nigelvh> That's not good.
[21:12] <nigelvh> One thing to do, is smell the transmission fluid and oil
[21:12] <MLow> i bought it at 13.8k
[21:12] <Upu> back in 2
[21:12] <nigelvh> If it smells burnt, that's a bad sign.
[21:13] <MLow> i can do that, it's all in jugs in the garage
[21:13] <nigelvh> Just sniff the dip stick
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[21:13] <MLow> it's new oil and atf now
[21:13] <nigelvh> at least for the future.
[21:13] <MLow> brb
[21:13] <nigelvh> The old stuff would tell you what it was.
[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> Upu oh, so he made the computer fail?
[21:16] <Laurenceb_> Upu: any luck with libssl?
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> Upu and because of that all drive parts had to be replaced?
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[21:17] <MLow> well the old oil has a hit of burnt smell
[21:17] <MLow> hint*
[21:17] <MLow> old atf is just oil smell
[21:17] <MLow> as is new atf
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[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> MLow: do you know Dover?
[21:17] <Upu> Lunar_Lander yes because they couldn't work out what it was
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> hello NickB1
[21:18] <MLow> from dipstick, the oil in the car has a very slight hint of burnt smell from the dipstick
[21:18] <nigelvh> K, so transmission sounds fine. The old depends on how long it was since it was changed before you did.
[21:18] <Upu> Laurenceb yea just finished installing
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> Upu ohh, wouldn't have resetting the computer worked?
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[21:18] <MLow> but the oil in it now is like a half-half mix of the old oil and new synthetic stuff
[21:18] <nigelvh> oil depends*
[21:18] <NickB1> Hi Lunar_Lander
[21:18] <Laurenceb_> thanks
[21:18] <NickB1> just send you an email
[21:18] <nigelvh> Yes, if the old oil is in there, you could still have that.
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> MLow: the oil talk reminds me
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> thanks NickB1
[21:18] <nigelvh> I would get around to replacing all of it.
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> do you want to hear the story MLow?
[21:18] <MLow> should it smell like really burnt or what, cause i can barely smell a hint of smokeyness
[21:19] <fsphil-laptop> ooch, why do laptops get so hot
[21:19] <MLow> i intended to fill it with synthetic, but i drained the wrong pan and filled the oil 2x
[21:19] <MLow> so i had 7q of oil in it :S
[21:19] <MLow> for all of 20 minutes
[21:19] <MLow> 1 of which driven
[21:20] <Upu> Laurenceb http://ava.upuaut.net/files/libssl.so.1.0.0
[21:20] <nigelvh> It's not going to be like smoldering burnt, but that scent is a sign that the oil won't lubricate as well as it should.
[21:20] <MLow> so in 3k miles i will drain it 100% and new filter & oil
[21:20] <Laurenceb_> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/02/21/lohan_truss/
[21:20] <Laurenceb_> thanks
[21:20] <nigelvh> That will probably be fine.
[21:20] Action: Laurenceb_ is unsure of sanity
[21:20] <Lunar_Lander> thanks NickB1 :)!
[21:20] <MLow> thangs again nigelvh youve helped a ton with everything :D
[21:21] <MLow> the HX1, my car :P
[21:21] <NickB1> np Lunar_Lander
[21:21] <Lunar_Lander> MLow: can you read me?
[21:21] <MLow> Lunar_Lander: sorry?
[21:21] <nigelvh> No problem. I've spent quite a few years dealing with much older cars, so i've got a little bit of experience in the matter.
[21:21] <Lunar_Lander> the hot oil reminded me
[21:21] <Lunar_Lander> if you want to hear about what I read
[21:21] <MLow> sure do
[21:22] <nigelvh> As for the HX1, I don't know if you got my message last night, but I put up the page on the results of my testing. k7nvh.com
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> OK, there was a freight train going from Dover to Deal in 2006 and shortly before Deal there was a possession, that means that track engineering was made and the train had to wait
[21:22] <MLow> and i put my steps to make a spaceship on my blog :D
[21:22] <Laurenceb_> arggg
[21:22] <Upu> no workie ?
[21:22] <Laurenceb_> upu: was there a libcrypto with it?
[21:22] <Laurenceb_> it works ok
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> and the gradients are like that there is first an ascent and then a steep descent towards Deal
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> and thus the train had to brake
[21:22] <Laurenceb_> but libcrypto.so.1.0.0 misisng
[21:22] <Laurenceb_> :-/
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> and one of the workers said that one wagon was smoking
[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> probably was oil on the brake that got hot
[21:23] <Laurenceb_> this could go on forever :/
[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> and then the driver went to look at it and then he climbed the gap between two wagons to get to the other side
[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> but most tracks in Southern England are powered by the third rail system
[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> MLow: guess what happened?
[21:23] <NickB1> auch
[21:24] <Upu> Laurenceb same place http://ava.upuaut.net/files
[21:24] <MLow> Boom?
[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:24] <MLow> how the hell did oil get on the brakes
[21:24] <MLow> dont they just use friction...not lube
[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> the brakes are lubricated
[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> didn't get that far in the accident report yet
[21:25] <MLow> cool findings nigelvh
[21:25] <nigelvh> Well, not cool for our uses, but informative.
[21:25] <MLow> right
[21:25] <MLow> inferred that
[21:26] <Laurenceb_> Upu: ok it gets past the libssl stuff now
[21:26] <Laurenceb_> onto libjpeg but i think i can fix that
[21:26] <Laurenceb_> thanks for the help
[21:26] <Laurenceb_> ive fixed libpng already
[21:27] <Upu> just yell if you need the libraries uploading
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[21:27] <Laurenceb_> do you have full 32 bit install?
[21:28] <Upu> yup
[21:28] <Laurenceb_> oh cool
[21:28] <Laurenceb_> thanks
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> wb NickB1
[21:28] <Upu> you want access to it ?
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> NickB1_
[21:28] <Laurenceb_> could you grab me libjpeg.so.8
[21:28] <Upu> sure
[21:29] <nigelvh> MLow: I also figure I'll do the same test with the MX145 when it comes.
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[21:29] <MLow> alright
[21:29] <Laurenceb_> maybe i should grab my old laptop and install latest ubuntu
[21:29] <Upu> done
[21:29] <Upu> you can just pop the CD in an upgrade
[21:30] <Laurenceb_> yeah but unity....
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[21:30] <Laurenceb_> im going to swap to mint or something
[21:30] <Upu> what is Unity ?
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> the SIDEBAR
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[21:30] <Upu> oh
[21:30] <Upu> I don't spend much time in GUI's under Linux
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[21:30] <NickB1_> Lunar_Lander, is a geiger tube vacuum ?
[21:31] Nick change: NickB1_ -> NickB1
[21:32] <Laurenceb_> yesss
[21:32] <nigelvh> I ran into the same thing. Using ubuntu server has been just fine, but the other day I tried the desktop version and it was terrible.
[21:32] <Laurenceb_> installs
[21:32] <Laurenceb_> thanks
[21:32] <Upu> nps
[21:32] <Lunar_Lander> NickB1: it is filled with like alcohol vapour
[21:32] <Upu> for information on Mint
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[21:32] <Upu> it still fails with libpng14.so.14
[21:32] <Lunar_Lander> there is a central wire that is positively charged, the wall is negatively charged
[21:32] <Laurenceb_> oh i fixed that
[21:33] <Laurenceb_> Upu: building from source works for me
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[21:33] <Upu> uff
[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> a striking particle will ionize the vapour and then will break down the potential because the electrons and ions are attracted by wire and wall
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[21:33] <Laurenceb_> i tried building libssl from source as well
[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> and with a high enough voltage, the striking particle will induce more ionizations, a avalance
[21:33] <Laurenceb_> but it needs a custom makefile to make a libssl.so file that works
[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> avalanche
[21:33] <NickB1> oh ok
[21:33] <Laurenceb_> and i didnt want to go down that rabbit hole :P
[21:33] <Upu> http://www.element14.com/community/thread/15770
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> thus a GM-Tube needs high voltage
[21:34] <NickB1> and a small current will flow
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> but the important thing is that the potential difference breaks down
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> thus the GM has a dead time in which the ionization has to go down again
[21:35] <NickB1> so theres a max ammount of hits it can measure ?
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> at once yes
[21:35] <Upu> this is basically why my mum will never use Linux :)
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> the dead-time is about 100 microseconds
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> in that time a particle isn't registered
[21:36] <Laurenceb_> now the launcher menu fails XD
[21:36] <NickB1> so macimum 10000 hits :)
[21:36] <Laurenceb_> need to manually set the binary path
[21:36] <nigelvh> Which is independent of the measurement time of the electronic circuits.
[21:36] <NickB1> probably not a healthy ammount
[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> um well
[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> astronauts are shielded by the walls
[21:36] <NickB1> 10000 / sec
[21:36] <nigelvh> The electronics may not allow for hits that quickly
[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> a bit at least
[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> yeah nigelvh
[21:37] <Laurenceb_> you would also have radiation sickness
[21:37] <nigelvh> Most geiger counter circuits I've seen have pulse stretchers to allow for a nice clean measurement.
[21:37] <SpeedEvil> 10000/sec of some radiation is harmless
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[21:37] <SpeedEvil> Alpha - for example
[21:37] <SpeedEvil> (that does not get breathed in)
[21:38] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[21:40] <NickB1> Hope the tube wont explode at high altitude :)
[21:40] <Lunar_Lander> probably won't
[21:40] <Lunar_Lander> the pressure inside is quite low
[21:41] <NickB1> ah ok
[21:41] <NickB1> so it can relax then
[21:41] <Laurenceb_> lol @ pqb quote banner
[21:41] <Laurenceb_> eagle has been basterdised by element14
[21:41] <nigelvh> We've had geiger tubes fly. They do fine.
[21:41] <NickB1> ok
[21:41] <NickB1> no worries then
[21:42] <Upu> Laurenceb http://i.imgur.com/rQDbV.png
[21:42] <Laurenceb_> nice
[21:42] <_Hix-Android> Is there any mileage in a sealed box with 2 checkvalves in either direction to allow it to equalize in the up/down but to seal against ditching ?
[21:42] <Laurenceb_> pity its an arduino XD
[21:43] <Upu> hey _Hix-Android
[21:43] <Upu> got your message earlier at work ,sorry been busy all day
[21:43] <_Hix-Android> Hey, snap
[21:44] <_Hix-Android> THough bought solder station from germland so can practice smd on old boards
[21:44] <NickB1> bye all
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[21:44] <Upu> I'll post you some old boards if you want
[21:44] <Upu> we are going to have a few swift boards to play with :)
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[21:45] <richardf> Talking of smd, just been trying to solder a ublox to the breakout board
[21:45] <Laurenceb_> Upu: if fine using eagle thanks
[21:45] <Laurenceb_> oh nvm
[21:45] <Upu> nps glad to help
[21:45] Action: Laurenceb_ learns to read
[21:45] <_Hix-Android> Anything would be a bonus being from mechanical background I'm used to using force not flair :p
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[21:46] <Lunar_Lander> richardf: ohhhh!
[21:46] <Upu> sounds viable _Hix but generally I wouldn't worry about it
[21:46] <Lunar_Lander> damn I missed Nick leaving!
[21:46] <_Hix-Android> The valve thing?
[21:46] <Upu> if it lands on water unless your very lucky like me and daveake you probably won't get it back , if its in the North Sea anyway
[21:46] <richardf> It's not good, but hopefully haven't damaged it!
[21:46] <Lunar_Lander> OHHH
[21:47] <_Hix-Android> Goes to look at sea kayak sites :p
[21:48] <fsphil-laptop> aah, the north sea club. it's pretty exclusive :)
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> Upu help richardf
[21:49] <Upu> hmm
[21:49] <Upu> sorry missed it whats up
[21:49] <_Hix-Android> Guarantee ill end up in the drink.
[21:49] <Upu> oh
[21:49] <daveake> I'm a member of the North Sea (lost) club and the English Channel (recovered) club :)
[21:49] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:49] <fsphil-laptop> I've so far avoided the irish sea, crossed that twice now
[21:49] <Upu> yeah if its any concelation I destroyed 2 Inventek ISM 300s before I got it right
[21:50] <richardf> I'm ok, just having fun soldering the ublox to the breakout board you sent
[21:50] <daveake> Still not been admitted to the top-of-a-tree club
[21:50] <cuddykid> richardf: is it hard?
[21:50] <fsphil-laptop> oh you'll love that daveake
[21:50] <fsphil-laptop> good excuse to cut trees down
[21:50] <daveake> :D
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> daveake: but you are in a oldtimer club right?
[21:50] <daveake> oy
[21:50] <Upu> I wouldn't say its hard , just fiddly sometimes
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> what car?
[21:51] <_Hix-Android> Apparently solder braid is your friend for things like that
[21:51] <richardf> To a begineer like me, its like being given the components to the space shuttle and told to put it together
[21:51] <fsphil-laptop> nasa couldn't even make a space shuttle now
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> richardf: http://www.sparkfun.com/search/results?term=SMD&what=tutorials
[21:52] <daveake> good job too. silly complicated design
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> maybe the texts can help?
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> daveake: what car is 460?
[21:52] <_Hix-Android> Richard Snap! But I make up for lack of skill with tenacity
[21:53] <Upu> just use flux
[21:53] <Upu> put the solder on the end of the tip
[21:53] <Upu> and apply it to the very edge of the pad
[21:53] <Upu> it should wick up
[21:53] <daveake> LL Mine? I have a Peugeot 406 coupe and a Lotus Elise
[21:53] <Upu> and don't hold the heat on too long
[21:53] <daveake> I have to add them up to get more power than Upu's :p
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.sparkfun.com/tutorials/36
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> ah daveake
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:54] <_Hix-Android> Cars, I do know
[21:54] <Upu> yeah but the Elise weighs about 1/3 of mine :)
[21:54] <daveake> Indeed :)
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> daveake: on Wheeler Dealers they go to a DeLorean meeting
[21:54] <nigelvh> I have a 1993 subaru legacy.
[21:54] <Upu> ok dog walk time bbs
[21:54] <nigelvh> OOOOH AHHHH
[21:54] <Upu> and [21:50] <Lunar_Lander> daveake: but you are in a oldtimer club right?
[21:54] <Upu> lolol
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> and one guy has a black license plate with white/grey letters
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> xD Upu
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> what is it about the black license plate?
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> daveake: do you know?
[21:56] <_Hix-Android> Anyone seen the new lyonheart? All British, will probably break down more than tvr tho
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljyt9_TFZd4
[21:59] <_Hix-Android> FYI www.wiltec.info seem good on prices
[21:59] <_Hix-Android> For soldering stations. And spares too
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> daveake: so do you watch that show there with Clarkson, Hammond and May?
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> XD
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[22:00] <_Hix-Android> http://www.autoblog.com/2012/02/21/lyonheart-k-aims-to-rekindle-british-sporting-tradition-with-e-t/
[22:02] <cuddykid> what's solder wick?
[22:02] <nigelvh> Copper braid impregnated with flux.
[22:02] <Darkside> >_>
[22:03] <_Hix-Android> Oooh, is there an inmarsat module. Program flight computer to send inmarsat call if ditch in sea. Maybe not at their call rates :p
[22:03] <richardf> Thanks for your tips guys, but have given up on this.
[22:03] <richardf> Will have to get some stuff to practise on
[22:05] <cuddykid> richardf: do you have a decent iron? I need to get a better one by the looks of it
[22:07] <richardf> Yeah, I ordered myself a new temperature controlled one by antex
[22:07] <_Hix-Android> Look at wiltec.info I got a temp controlled smd station for 29 euro. Same brand as the stuff on sparkfun as I just found out
[22:08] <_Hix-Android> Cuddykid forgot to say if you need a few bits and bobs I could order from RS if you want and get it send to you
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[22:08] <cuddykid> _Hix-Android: I put an order in earlier :D but thanks anyway
[22:09] <Upu> post it across to me richardf I'll solder it up for you
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[22:09] <_Hix-Android> For future ref, applies to others too. Free shipping from RS components
[22:10] <richardf> I had been trying not to use the 'get out of jail free card', but may take you up on that Upu
[22:10] <Upu> I use this : http://www.circuitspecialists.eu/blackjack-solderwerks-deluxe-rework-system-bk-6000-p-173.html?zenid=7a45ebe362b1f26c3cc9f5c447b14fbe
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[22:10] <Upu> with a finer tip that the one they supply as standard
[22:11] <Upu> but we bought that for repairing laptops
[22:11] <cuddykid> oh wow
[22:11] <Upu> its actually a little bit "shing long ling long" as my engineers would say
[22:12] <Upu> the desoldering gun is pretty useless
[22:13] <Laurenceb_> bk6000 is epic
[22:13] <richardf> I think this iron will keep me going, just need to have a practice. What's the best way to do that? Take apart an old radio and solder/unsolder it?
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[22:13] <Laurenceb_> i use it for everything
[22:14] <Upu> desolder gun is crap
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[22:14] <Upu> rest of it is good though
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[22:14] <Upu> richardf find an old computer NIC
[22:14] <Upu> they have surface mount stuff on
[22:14] <Upu> usually
[22:15] <Upu> however desoldering SM stuff is even harder than putting it on in the first place
[22:15] <Upu> unless you're handy with a hot air
[22:15] <richardf> Well, at least I won't be so concerned with breaking it!
[22:15] <Upu> I recovered some parts off an old board today using an electric skillet
[22:17] <Upu> just don't cook on it afterwards..
[22:17] <daveake> not even chips
[22:17] <richardf> Ok, gotta shoot now. Thanks again for your help/support, and may very well take you up on your offer Upu
[22:17] <Upu> no problems speak soon
[22:18] <cuddykid> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/28020-Analog-Soldering-Station-150-480-C-60-W-Silicon-Wire-/280757198381?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item415e6ede2d#ht_2097wt_1413 <- any good?
[22:18] <Laurenceb_> i think i just chucked the gun in the bin
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[22:19] <Upu> yeah think ours is stuck in a cupboard but the hot air is good
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[22:19] <Upu> first time we used it on an old NIC we blew all the components off it :)
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> XD
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[22:21] <cuddykid> I guess a 60W iron is going to be better than an 18W iron
[22:21] <Upu> well
[22:21] <Upu> only if its temperature controlled
[22:21] <_Hix> Sounds a bit strong
[22:21] <cuddykid> yeah
[22:21] <cuddykid> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/28020-Analog-Soldering-Station-150-480-C-60-W-Silicon-Wire-/280757198381?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item415e6ede2d#ht_2097wt_1413
[22:22] <daveake> cuddykid that one looks a bit clumsy
[22:22] <cuddykid> it should do the trick though ?
[22:22] <daveake> What trick is that?
[22:23] <daveake> Soldering together a ship?
[22:23] <daveake> :p
[22:23] <_Hix> Search for anouye (think) 906
[22:23] <Upu> yes thats what I was about to say
[22:23] <_Hix> Daveake :D
[22:23] <Upu> find one that uses the Aoyue tips
[22:23] <Upu> http://www.pcb-soldering.co.uk/aoyue-lf-2b-conical-type-solder-tip-with-heating-element.html
[22:23] <nigelvh> I use the Hakko 906
[22:24] <_Hix> That's the make they do a solder and hot air for 95 euro
[22:24] <_Hix> Aoyue 906 I meant
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[22:24] <cuddykid> lol daveake
[22:25] <_Hix> Wiltec do Aoyue and shipping is about 10 euro
[22:27] <_Hix> And it appears that freenode hammers Android batts
[22:28] <nigelvh> Yep, it's called communication, Tends to be power hungry.
[22:28] <Upu> _Hix no desktop ?
[22:28] <_Hix> Hungry, its famished
[22:29] <cuddykid> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/220V-Aoyue-936-Soldering-Station-/170751846740?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27c19a6954
[22:29] <_Hix> Nope, not at moment. WiFi dead at home. Went to pub. :)
[22:29] <Upu> lol
[22:29] <nigelvh> You know there are apps designed to run down your battery. You could try those.
[22:29] <cuddykid> Upu: is that one better? ^
[22:30] <Upu> looks ok yeah, hard to tell what the tip is like
[22:30] <Upu> and its personal preference really, I have more success with conical needle tips but my engineers prefer chisle type
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[22:31] <nigelvh> Generally I use a curved pointed tip. The tip works good for the surface mount stuff, and I use the outside of the curve as a larger point for doing through hole stuff.
[22:32] <Upu> yup
[22:32] <_Hix> That's what I ordered 40 euro delivered from Wiltec
[22:32] <_Hix> Upu 0.8mm tip smd
[22:32] <_Hix> Think it is conical needle
[22:32] <_Hix> Smd was supposed to be as std
[22:33] <_Hix> They seem to have a rake of spare tips there too.
[22:33] <Upu> I think I use a 0.5mm one
[22:33] <nigelvh> Like this: http://www.hakkousa.com/detail.asp?CID=192,212,214&PID=1117&Page=1
[22:33] <Upu> the pads on the NEO6 and MAX6 is 0.8mm
[22:33] <Upu> lol
[22:33] <Upu> cursor turns into a soldering iron that page...
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[22:34] <nigelvh> Yeah, that's a little stupid, but I like my iron from them.
[22:34] <cuddykid> _Hix: going to roll with wiltec then :D
[22:35] <_Hix> Hold.
[22:35] <cuddykid> ?
[22:35] <_Hix> on getting link
[22:35] <Upu> ok I'm calling it a night laters all
[22:35] <cuddykid> http://shop.wiltec.info/product_info.php/info/p2989_AOYUE-936-Soldering-Station--200-C-480-C-SMD-Rework-Station.html
[22:35] <nigelvh> Evening
[22:35] <daveake> nn
[22:35] <cuddykid> toodles Upu
[22:35] <fsphil-laptop> nite!
[22:36] <_Hix> Bye guys
[22:36] <_Hix> The very one cuddykid
[22:37] <cuddykid> _Hix: shipping is only $5.5
[22:38] <cuddykid> oh on
[22:38] <cuddykid> *no
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[22:39] <_HIX-ANDROID> No I've not
[22:40] <_HIX-ANDROID> Oh I have, deed poll
[22:40] <_HIX-ANDROID> Smartphone my arse
[22:42] <cuddykid> ordered :D
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[22:46] <Lunar_Lander> does anyone know where to order Sarantel antennas?
[22:46] <cuddykid> yup
[22:46] <cuddykid> one sec
[22:46] <cuddykid> Upu or...
[22:47] <cuddykid> richardson rfpd
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> yeah for upu's GPS
[22:48] <NigeyS> Lunar_Lander
[22:48] <NigeyS> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=59_65
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[22:49] <Lunar_Lander> ah cool
[22:49] <Lunar_Lander> hey Nige
[22:49] <Lunar_Lander> NigeyS:
[22:49] <NigeyS> hi :)
[22:49] <NigeyS> brb
[22:49] <Laurenceb_> is it me or is element14 community like full frontal lobotomy central?
[22:50] <Laurenceb_> facepalming at some of the stuff on there
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[23:05] <Lunar_Lander> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjJHNv3-rZU
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[23:24] Nick change: daveake_ -> daveake
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[23:31] <Lunar_Lander> wb daveake
[23:31] <Lunar_Lander> you missed something :)
[23:32] <daveake> oh?
[23:32] <Lunar_Lander> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjJHNv3-rZU
[23:32] <Lunar_Lander> :)
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[23:36] <daveake> I love the look of despair on one side and extreme smugness on the other
[23:36] <daveake> Good job we don't have Payload Wars
[23:37] <Lunar_Lander> xD!
[23:38] <Lunar_Lander> daveake: but I thought about a HAB board game/computer game
[23:38] <Lunar_Lander> just an idea
[23:38] <Lunar_Lander> but no details
[23:38] <Lunar_Lander> :(
[23:40] <daveake> "Go to sea. Do not pass Go. Do not collect payload"
[23:40] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[23:40] <staylo> Lunar_Lander: I assume you've seen Spaced?
[23:41] <Lunar_Lander> no, sorry
[23:41] <Lunar_Lander> what is it?
[23:43] Nick change: MLow -> MLow-werk
[23:43] <staylo> It's a very good comedy from the late 90s / early 2000s, has a spoof of robot wars (Probably one of the weaker parts of the series, but it's still funny)
[23:44] <Lunar_Lander> xD cool
[23:45] <MLow-werk> robot wars was kick ass
[23:45] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:46] <MLow-werk> I think I'm going to call my project MISEP
[23:47] <MLow-werk> MId-strato-eperimental-payload
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[23:50] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[23:58] <MLow-werk> Sound about right?
[23:59] <MLow-werk> Or I could do launch
[23:59] <MLow-werk> MISEL
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[00:00] --- Wed Feb 22 2012