highaltitude.log.20120220

[00:02] <andrew_apex> night Lunar_Lander - time for sleep :)
[00:02] <Lunar_Lander> good night :)!
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[01:01] <Wyatt> Does anyone know any information on how I can take the KML file that is exported from the predictor website and have it plotted via the google maps api as a KmlLayer?
[01:04] <Wyatt> I try and export the prediction as a kml file, but the file itself has wrong data in it, as there is a new line at the top of the file which trips up google earth
[01:07] <Wyatt> Anyone here at all?
[01:07] <Lunar_Lander> Wyatt: in central europe it is about 10 minutes past 2 am
[01:08] <Lunar_Lander> are you from the USA or AUS?
[01:08] <Wyatt> Ah, apologies for that then. I'm from Canada.
[01:08] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[01:08] <Lunar_Lander> the australians might be here
[01:08] <Lunar_Lander> Darkside: ?
[01:09] <Darkside> hrmm
[01:09] <Darkside> cant help with the question
[01:10] <Wyatt> It just seems everytime I load the KML file that is exported into google maps (not google earth), it shows the launch, burst, and landing locations in a straight line in the middle of the bering sea
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[01:17] <Lunar_Lander> good night
[01:23] <Wyatt> It seems that the issue with the kml file only happens with predictions ran in north america, maybe a lat/lng problem?
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[02:17] <griffonbot> @LVL1WhiteStar: Comm controller newly nestled in to SpeedBall-1, all hooked up for remote software coding and debugging #UKHAS http://t.co/AD5WDgZa [http://twitter.com/LVL1WhiteStar/status/171418139047890944]
[02:34] <Pavix> What are you using to create the kml file? I use gpsbabel and it seems to function pretty well. But I never loaded anything into google maps, just google earth
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[03:20] <Pavix> WOOHOO! UPS doesnt observe Presidents day!
[03:30] <Dan-K2VOL> haha
[03:31] <Pavix> Can't wait to get my stuff ;)
[03:31] <Dan-K2VOL> what's that
[03:32] <Pavix> UPS is bringing my balloon
[03:33] <Pavix> USPS has it off, but they'll be delivering the rest of my stuff I believe
[03:33] <Pavix> So I'm hoping by friday to have everything but the helium in hand
[03:33] <Dan-K2VOL> cool
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[07:57] Nick change: daveake_ -> daveake
[08:07] <cuddykid> morning daveake
[08:07] <daveake> morning ck
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[08:16] <cuddykid> wonders if a custom bike tracker under the saddle is a good idea
[08:17] <SpeedEvil> Sure.
[08:17] <cuddykid> definitely don't want to lose my new bike again lol
[08:18] <number10> also a simple alarm may help
[08:18] <cuddykid> vibration sensor or something? - when on and vibration > 10secs - sound alarm :P
[08:19] <SpeedEvil> cuddykid: gyro
[08:19] <SpeedEvil> on change of orientation
[08:19] <SpeedEvil> much less sensitive to knocks
[08:19] <cuddykid> now that would be snazy
[08:19] <daveake> s/sound alarm/lock front wheel :-)
[08:19] <number10> that may get false triggers - even a simple circuit that is broken when the lock is cut
[08:20] <cuddykid> yeah
[08:20] <cuddykid> need to get a decent lock later, then I'll see what I can do
[08:20] <number10> pack the frame with sodium chlorate and some organic material - and a trigger circuit - but you may get done for that
[08:20] <cuddykid> can arduinos/ublox be run off 3V rather than 3V3?
[08:20] <cuddykid> lol number10
[08:21] <number10> that keyword has probably been picked up somewhere - all eyes will be on us now :(
[08:22] <cuddykid> probably :P
[08:22] <daveake> High Altitude Bicycling
[08:22] <daveake> Well the thief might gain some altitude
[08:23] <cuddykid> certainly!
[08:23] <number10> do we need to bother with a tracker on the thief - maybe multiple trackers at that point
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[08:32] <number10> how is the soldering going of all those boards daveake ?
[08:33] <daveake> Have been doing a batch of 10 the last week or so, soldering whenever I get bored doing real work :-)
[08:34] <daveake> Done all the LEDs, sockets, DIL resistor packs. Got the Rs and Cs to go. I've ordered a Cliff PCB workframe which should make it easier.
[08:35] <daveake> And when I got bored of that (I bore easily!) I made up a second little tracker - http://www.daveakerman.com/?p=277
[08:36] <number10> maybe i sould try these ardiono thingies out rather than wiring up PICs - makes things a little quicker
[08:36] <number10> your sandwich method looks quite neat
[08:37] <daveake> Well quicker for the first 1 or 2, after that I suspect it's quicker to design a PCB :)
[08:37] <daveake> These are a bit fiddly to put together
[08:39] <daveake> Second one was much quicker of course - just copying the first. A lot of the time was figuring out a 3D shape that got as many connections lining up as possible
[08:39] <number10> i am not sure I fancy PCB layout, you will have to do a redesign when you run out of FSA03s
[08:40] <daveake> I have fun out and I will need to redesign this :D
[08:40] <daveake> run
[08:42] <cuddykid> nice daveake :D
[08:43] <daveake> Pleasingly, the second one did work first time :)
[08:43] <cuddykid> :D
[08:43] <daveake> I thought it wasn't work, though, but that was just because the rfm22b was transmnitting 8kHz lower than the other one did
[08:44] <daveake> *working
[08:44] <cuddykid> ahh right
[08:44] <number10> you need a bigger hab budget - get a sprectrum analyser
[08:44] <cuddykid> lol
[08:44] <number10> -r
[08:44] <daveake> I have ordered a DSO fith FFT function :p
[08:45] <daveake> with
[08:45] <daveake> And no it won't cope with 434MHz!
[08:45] <daveake> Need the scope for those boards, of course. Ahem
[08:46] <number10> yes I see
[08:46] <daveake> But making those boards myself saves £2.5k so I suddenly have a budget for some electronics kit
[08:47] <daveake> And the scope, workframe and some other bits are less than £50
[08:47] <daveake> £500
[08:47] <daveake> I see you've infected babel.c number10
[08:47] <number10> still 2k left in budget
[08:47] <daveake> yeah I'm trying not to spend it all :D
[08:49] <number10> lol. I could do with some of the kit thats here at work - I have a 5Ks worth of scope sitting on my desk not doing much
[08:50] <daveake> Borrow for a weekend?
[08:50] <number10> I used to b able to - but I think there may be some insurance issue
[08:51] <number10> I have an old scope that was written off at home - bit slow
[08:52] <daveake> I have a Velleman thing but it's not very good. Also a tiny Seeedstudio one goes in my toolkit when on site. Only decent one is a pico scope.
[08:52] <daveake> Pico software is rubbish
[08:53] <number10> whats the prob with the software - crap user interface?
[08:53] <daveake> Yes
[08:53] <daveake> It works OK, but the interface is poor
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[08:54] <daveake> Also mine is an old parallel port one, which only works with a special pico usb/parallel adapter
[08:54] <daveake> All a bit cumbersome
[08:54] <number10> the seeestudio thingy looks handy for onsite debugging
[08:55] <daveake> It is. Only used once so far but saved a lot of time
[09:21] <fsphil> ack, monday morning. was hoping that wouldn't happen. some of these days friday will come immediately after sunday
[09:22] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: retire!
[09:22] <daveake> Hasn't happened in the last 2700 attempts, IME
[09:23] <daveake> Not that I cared for the first 250
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[09:32] <daveake> Whoever did this probably didn't worry about Mondays, or any other days of his "busy" week :-) http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=779_1329223608
[09:34] <number10> someone that has a lot of spare time
[09:35] <number10> I was thinking - you started your buseness in a recession daveake
[09:35] <number10> was a bold move
[09:35] <daveake> "brave", yes :)
[09:36] <daveake> I think I said before that my previous employers gave me plenty of work over the first year or so
[09:37] <number10> yes, that was quite handy
[09:37] <daveake> s/handy/essential, probably
[09:38] <daveake> Well, I could have gone contracting otherwise, and did do a few years later for a short while
[09:39] <MLow> so i recently made a big mistake
[09:39] <daveake> Neat, but £25 ??!! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/google/9089830/Folding-Mu-plug-launches-in-Britain.html
[09:39] <MLow> aka 5 hours ago
[09:40] <MLow> drained all my ATF in mistaking it for the oil pan(tiny kia car)
[09:40] <MLow> double filled the oil, and drove around my blog
[09:40] <MLow> block*
[09:41] <SpeedEvil> Joy.
[09:41] <SpeedEvil> Did bits fly off?
[09:41] <MLow> I notcied something about 200ft down the road
[09:41] <MLow> lack of gears changing regularly, lack of power
[09:41] <MLow> switched to neutral, coasted home
[09:42] <daveake> smoke. smell. melting bits.
[09:42] <MLow> corrected it by leveling the fluids
[09:42] <MLow> smoke, lots
[09:42] <SpeedEvil> daveake: Well...
[09:42] <SpeedEvil> daveake: Compare the price with actual 'branded' USB adaptors that are likely to actually have creepage distances of over 0.1mm
[09:42] <SpeedEvil> For exampl,e the amaxon kindle adaptor is 15 quid
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[09:42] <daveake> Yeah, I hadn't got down to he USB bit when I posted :D
[09:43] <daveake> Thought it was £25 for a plug :D
[09:43] <MLow> So I'm hopefull that I possibly corrected it fast enough. but..I am ofcourse up at 4am in a fever sweat thinking of the what-ifs
[09:43] <daveake> And as you say, some of those Chinese USB PSUs are downright dangerous
[09:43] <MLow> what if i burned the transmission, blew some seals, ruined something else i dont understand
[09:43] <MLow> Literally just got the car
[09:44] <MLow> 15k miles on it
[09:44] <MLow> So of course i should have just gotten the oil changed at the dealer
[09:44] <SpeedEvil> MLow: It depends.
[09:45] <MLow> im worried sick honestly
[09:45] <SpeedEvil> MLow: You may have done no damage, and filling it up properly will fix it.
[09:45] <daveake> I stopped servicing my own cars when I emptied the oil once, then refilled, then wondered why the stick still said empty ....
[09:45] <daveake> .... then I screwed the sump plug back in and tried again :)
[09:45] <jonsowman> daveake: nice
[09:45] <SpeedEvil> You may have done minimal damage, which if not fixed by a garage will cause major damage soon,
[09:45] <MLow> I got it corrected fast enough after a consultation to the service manual, which is a great thing to reference BEFORE doing such things
[09:46] <SpeedEvil> Or you may have done major damage.
[09:46] <jonsowman> MLow: i'd get it to a dealer and explain
[09:46] <SpeedEvil> There isn't really a way to tell, without a deep understanding of the design of the cehicle.
[09:46] <SpeedEvil> I'd take it to the dealer.
[09:46] <MLow> it's under a limited warrantee
[09:46] <MLow> being a 2010
[09:46] <SpeedEvil> And do not drive it to the dealer
[09:47] <SpeedEvil> Or have it towed, you need a lift vehicle
[09:47] <MLow> I have a backup car to drive
[09:47] <jonsowman> yeah don't tow autos with the driving wheels on the ground
[09:47] <jonsowman> if it's FWD you need to lift the fronts up
[09:48] <MLow> so I shouldn't take it around the block?
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[09:48] <jonsowman> MLow: i really wouldn't
[09:48] <jonsowman> personal opinion but i think it's best to speak to a dealer and don't move it unless they say so
[09:48] <MLow> i talked to a mechanic
[09:49] <MLow> he said I very likely am ok
[09:49] <MLow> as long as the distance driven was low
[09:49] <jonsowman> could well be right
[09:49] <MLow> which is was literally a minute around my block
[09:49] <jonsowman> but as SpeedEvil, it's very difficult to know that for sure
[09:49] <jonsowman> *said
[09:49] <zyp> jonsowman, that only goes for cars with auto transmissions
[09:49] <jonsowman> zyp: yep
[09:49] <jonsowman> but MLow's is an auto
[09:50] <zyp> ah
[09:50] <jonsowman> he said he drained the auto transmission fluid
[09:50] <jonsowman> or at least i presume that's what he meant by ATF
[09:50] <MLow> yeah
[09:50] <jonsowman> got to dash, sorry. bbl
[09:54] <MLow> the mechanic i know said the ATF was very likely not all drained because of how is stays inside the transmission
[09:55] <MLow> and that the level of ATF is not critical, but more a precausion of keep the gears from seizing when left in gear stopped
[09:55] <MLow> the level of driving I did shouldnt have heated them enough to sieze
[09:56] <MLow> but he said to fill half a quart at a time and change the gears while idling, to spread the oil on all the gears
[09:57] <MLow> the gears seemed to start changing more smoothly when I did get more in there, and didn't take more than usual to change after full
[09:57] <daveake> *MLow is now known as OilLow
[09:58] <daveake> :p
[09:58] <MLow> i wish i could laugh at that
[09:59] <SpeedEvil> Also - do not fill the ATF with regular oil, olive oil, or tobasco sauce.
[10:00] <MLow> i feel that joke is inappropriate maybe I misled you into thinking im not serious :\
[10:00] <SpeedEvil> Sure - I understand it's serious.
[10:01] <zyp> - if you can't joke about it, it's not worth taking seriously
[10:02] <MLow> well i just got the car and have driven about 1k miles on it barely
[10:03] <MLow> it's become a part of the family..and my wallet will hurt to have to pay off getting a new transmission
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[10:04] <zyp> I know the feeling
[10:04] <zyp> I once had the timing belt on my car snap in the middle of a long trip
[10:05] <fsphil> ooch
[10:05] <fsphil> that happened mine, on a short trip thankfully. engine basically self destructed
[10:05] <daveake> I wrecked the egine in Mrs Dave's Corsa once, by using a part of the rev range that it had previously not been exposed to :D
[10:05] <fsphil> lol
[10:05] <daveake> Design fault and Vauxhall coughed up most of it
[10:06] <SpeedEvil> Over 9000?
[10:06] <MLow> yeah interference engine likes it's timing belt working
[10:06] <daveake> Cam belt tensioner was a poor design and it let go of the belt
[10:06] <daveake> This was briefly followed by a lot of noise and then by no noise at all
[10:07] <zyp> MLow, luckily mine is not an interference engine
[10:07] <fsphil> I wasn't driving mine when the belt snapped, but from what they said it sounded like someone slammed on the brakes
[10:07] <zyp> but at the time I weren't sure of the fact
[10:07] <daveake> SpeedEvil no, within the normal range :-). Just not part of the range that Julie ever uses :)
[10:07] <fsphil> I bet she had a few words to say that day
[10:07] <zyp> fsphil, ah, that didn't happen to me
[10:08] <number10> I was wondering if reverse gear was an optional extra on womens cars
[10:08] <daveake> She used silence rather than words
[10:08] <zyp> I were cruising in 80kph, and suddenly just lost all engine power
[10:08] <fsphil> ah, "the look"
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[10:08] <daveake> But she worked at a Bauxhall garage at the time (as a PA, not a mechanic!) and they said "Oh yeah, they fail all the time. We replace an engine every week on those"
[10:08] <zyp> and at the same time the oil lamp came on
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[10:09] <daveake> *V
[10:14] <MLow> i started it up and reved it good and no issues
[10:14] <MLow> didnt drive it
[10:15] craag (~ircconsol@thecraag.com) got lost in the net-split.
[10:15] <MLow> just checked google maps and the route I took is under a mile
[10:27] <fsphil> I wish electric cars where cheaper, less to go wrong
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[10:30] <eroomde> morning all
[10:30] <daveake> morning one
[10:30] <eroomde> Randomskk: pong
[10:30] <eroomde> thanks daveake
[10:30] <eroomde> good weekend?
[10:32] <eroomde> darkside is now following me on twitter, says a breahtless email
[10:32] <eroomde> what a treat he's in for
[10:32] <Darkside> lol
[10:32] <fsphil> I love your tweets eroomde :)
[10:33] <Darkside> lol 1 tweet
[10:33] <Darkside> last year
[10:33] <eroomde> i'm like the twitter equivalent of dark fibre
[10:33] <eroomde> everyone bies me up while i'm useless
[10:33] <eroomde> bies? buys
[10:33] <daveake> bigs?
[10:33] <eroomde> and then, BANG
[10:33] <eroomde> i'll be the stphen fry of engineering
[10:34] <eroomde> but with more typos
[10:36] <fsphil> typos are ok, people on the internet are understanding
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[10:38] <daveake> Sure they are (repost alert) http://thumbsnap.com/i/f8nOk37e.png
[10:38] <navrac> moring all
[10:39] <fsphil> mornin navrac
[10:39] <fsphil> you didn't manage to skip money then either?
[10:39] <fsphil> monday even
[10:40] <navrac> im busy packing an electronics tookit so I can work on my payload whilst im in barcelona for the next 10 days
[10:41] <navrac> lots of wire so i can experiment with different aerial designs, I decided the 1/4 wave plus radials is probably not too brilliant on a baloon so I'm going to experiment with jpole antennas
[10:43] <fsphil> ah, brave
[10:43] <fsphil> what advantage would that have?
[10:45] <navrac> well i'm impressed with the rfm22b receiver so I've decided to press on with the uplink stuff. My simulations show that a jpole should give me about another 3 db over a quarter wave as it doesnt need a groundplane
[10:45] <eroomde> from the wiki: The legality of pyrotechnical cut downs is debatable in the UK. Given this and the potential for injury we have decided to remove this section.
[10:45] <navrac> also a 'slim jim' aerial for long range use
[10:45] <eroomde> is it still available somewhere?
[10:46] <navrac> why would a cut down be dodgy?
[10:46] <fsphil> the rfm can switch between two antennas can't it?
[10:46] <fsphil> explosives
[10:46] <navrac> no it cant :-(
[10:46] <eroomde> i don't like unilaterial removal of things, especially not in the name of unamed 'we'
[10:46] <fsphil> not cut-downs themselves
[10:47] <navrac> oic - the legal implications of offering advice on things that go bang or pop
[10:47] <eroomde> oh it's in the history at least
[10:48] <navrac> but it does run just as well ( if not slightly better ) on the 458mhz band as well as 432
[10:48] <daveake> eroomde what page is this? http://ukhas.org.uk/ideas:flight_support#pyrotechnic_cutdown_device is still there
[10:48] <navrac> so i can use the same rfm for uplink and downlink - if i can design an aerial with a wide enough bandwidth
[10:50] <eroomde> daveake: yeah it's the wiki graph structure being a mess
[10:50] <eroomde> there's another page on coutdown repeating the same thing pretty much
[10:50] <eroomde> in the hisotry
[10:50] <eroomde> but then 'we have decided to remove this' in place of it on the most recent revisions
[10:52] <daveake> Bit strange as there is no "we", and it's a wiki therefore everyone/no-one "owns" it
[10:52] <Laurenceb> just change the contributor to anonymous
[10:52] <Laurenceb> also apparently i never said that
[10:52] <daveake> :D
[10:52] <gonzo_> navrac, a 1/4wave vert is about optimal for a balloon. And shoudl be wide enough bandwidth to be useable for both 434 and 485meg
[10:53] <Laurenceb> is it possible to trace a phone without access to it?
[10:53] <gonzo_> a j=pole is actually a half wave vertical, which has a dipole type pattern.
[10:53] <Laurenceb> ive lost my phone... somewhere
[10:53] <Laurenceb> its still receiving calls
[10:54] <Laurenceb> eroomde: maybe the queen removed it
[10:54] <gonzo_> keep ringing it and listen (or hope someone answeres it if you lost it elsewhere)
[10:54] <Laurenceb> heh tried that one already
[10:55] <Laurenceb> can the phone company trace it for you?
[10:55] <gonzo_> suspect only if they have a compelling reason, like a coure order
[10:55] <gonzo_> court
[10:56] <navrac> http://www.cooperman435.co.uk/ looks interesting for cut down stuff
[10:56] <Laurenceb> sucks
[10:57] <eroomde> if you really care about reliable and completely legal above board cutdowns, i would strong commend to your attention pyrotechnic protractors
[10:57] <eroomde> they are the more reliable for of actuation i have ever come across
[10:57] <Laurenceb> "this might be illegal" sounds more dodgy than just some info
[10:58] <eroomde> they're 100% legal and there are no requirements on handling/shipping/storage/ownership
[10:58] <eroomde> they are also very small and neat
[10:58] <eroomde> there are about 10 of them flying on our 3 stage rocket for scotland
[10:58] <daveake> As used by Beagle ... :D
[10:58] <eroomde> there were 5 or 6 on a esa parachute test vehicle
[10:58] <eroomde> on our*
[10:59] <eroomde> they're just bloody marvelous
[10:59] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: I'd question the legality. They seem to me to meet the legal definition of firework.
[10:59] <eroomde> go on
[10:59] <navrac> but a 1/4r wave needs a decent ground plane to work well gonzo_ - my early experiments with a jpole showed it worked better than a 1/4 with 4 radials - but i guess thats what im going to try and work out
[10:59] <SpeedEvil> If you mean teh DIY ones
[10:59] <eroomde> daveake: i jsut nammed a fluke 87 III multimeter of ebay
[10:59] <eroomde> WINNING, as charlie sheen would say
[10:59] <eroomde> nabbed*
[10:59] <eroomde> SpeedEvil: no, pro ones
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[10:59] <SpeedEvil> ah
[10:59] <eroomde> metron DR 2006 C2 specifically
[11:00] <daveake> nice :)
[11:00] <eroomde> you can have them for £20 a pop if you buy 50
[11:00] <eroomde> daveake: yeah am excited. it has min, max, time average and stdev
[11:00] <eroomde> which is super useful
[11:01] <eroomde> especially for little things like average payload current consumption
[11:01] <daveake> indeedy
[11:02] <daveake> UBlox 5 for example has quite a dynamic current requirement
[11:02] <eroomde> yeah exactly
[11:02] <eroomde> the thing i used the one at work for yesterday was the current consumption over 10 mins of a deice that did stuff over about 15s with gps
[11:02] <eroomde> with lots of active/sleep gps cycles
[11:03] <eroomde> yesterday? friday
[11:03] <daveake> :)
[11:03] <daveake> Yeah, something like that you've got no hope without some tech to measure the average
[11:03] <daveake> And you can never have too many DMMs :)
[11:03] <eroomde> yeah
[11:04] <eroomde> i have my free-with-a-rapid-order one too
[11:04] <eroomde> which is ok
[11:04] <eroomde> but actually pretty bollocks in terms of accuracy
[11:04] <eroomde> and always things it's measuring 6mA in current mode even when no probes are connected
[11:05] <eroomde> http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=metron%20dr%202006%20c2&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCUQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.monetti.net%2Fpdf%2Fen%2FPRODUCTS_ACTUATORS_GAS_GENERATORS%2F01%2FDR%25202006%2520C2%2520EN.pdf&ei=1ihCT-eJAoSDhQfR4ZXuBQ&usg=AFQjCNHyWhhKy6rY0EuA0-T-Jj_VLYJw9Q
[11:05] <eroomde> oh sorry chaps
[11:05] <eroomde> google fail
[11:05] <daveake> I'm fed up of using 2 to measure V and I from a PSU (my PSU has wobbly-needle meters) so I ordered another PSU with digital displays
[11:05] <eroomde> nice :)
[11:06] <navrac> could you use muscle wire to make a simple cutdown - it uses a lot less current
[11:06] <SpeedEvil> http://fatpita.net/?i=11308 - this is not related to anything.
[11:06] <daveake> And a DSO too (Chinese one before you think I'm made of money :) )
[11:06] <eroomde> a lot less current than what?
[11:06] <eroomde> daveake: my dso was a freeb from a friend
[11:06] <eroomde> which is good
[11:06] <daveake> free is good
[11:06] <eroomde> but at work james has lots of nice agilent stuff
[11:06] <eroomde> multimeters, waveform generators, etc
[11:06] <daveake> Luxury
[11:06] <eroomde> yep
[11:07] <eroomde> but calibrated luxury which makes aerospace work much easier
[11:07] <eroomde> they like their paper trails
[11:07] <eroomde> and i do see the value in some of the agilent stuff. rigol has bitten me in the bum before
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[11:08] <eroomde> their banner specs are very impressive for the money but the relality is often different
[11:08] <navrac> the 1A for a pyro device - although a charged supercap I guess doesnt weigh too much
[11:08] <eroomde> yeah but consider it in terms of total energy required
[11:08] <eroomde> 1A for 5ms
[11:09] <navrac> 50mA for 200msec for a muscle wire?
[11:09] <navrac> it was just the lack of having to produce a big current i liked
[11:11] <navrac> I looked at it for controlling a ballast dump valve and He vent as it was so lightweight
[11:11] <eroomde> indeed, the pwoers are comparable (though still doube for the muscle wire) but consider also the force you get as a result and the reliability
[11:12] <eroomde> i would def go for muscle wire for something like a vent, certainly
[11:12] <eroomde> but for something that just has to separate when you tell it to, i think pyros would be tough to beat
[11:12] <navrac> yes - i think in a cutdown which is a one off rather than reused the pyro method is probably the best - it was just a passing thought
[11:12] <eroomde> sorry, protractors not pyros
[11:13] <eroomde> maybe i need reeducation on hot wire cutdowns though
[11:13] <SpeedEvil> I like ceramic resistors rated to 350C
[11:13] <eroomde> but they scare me a little
[11:13] <SpeedEvil> Seems a nice sane method.
[11:13] <daveake> Eroomde Yeah I looked it Rigol, Owon and Hantec (or something like that). Went for a 100MHz/1G Owon on the end, with 10M buffer
[11:13] <daveake> Really can't justify Aligent prices for my requirements
[11:14] <eroomde> just be wary oif the little things that will bite you in the bum if you don't know about them
[11:14] <eroomde> so for example
[11:14] <eroomde> i can find a 2nd hand agilent 33120 arb waveform generator on ebay for a similar price to a new rigol 1022 arb waveform generator
[11:15] <eroomde> rigol looks better on paper in that they are broadly the same but rigol has 2 channels
[11:15] <eroomde> but then i read that you can only enter arb waveforms throough a win xp only (no other flavours of win, no mac or linux) interface program
[11:16] <eroomde> and then there was the swept sine performance, which is really useful for measuring transfer functions of circuits
[11:16] <eroomde> the rigol doesn't acturally do constant power output across all the frequencies
[11:16] <daveake> <ofm>My first scope was a Telequipment dual-beam, bought from a friend who I had reason to believe may have got it quite cheap, possibly off the back of a lorry. Of the 2 traces, one was fine and the other you could hardly see. So I knocked him right down on price, saying that a single trace scope was next to useless. After purchase I put a bic biro cap in the back and adjusted the beam splitter magnet to get both traces balanced :-) </ofm>
[11:16] <eroomde> it tails off the power as you sweep up
[11:16] <eroomde> no mention of this in the docs
[11:16] <daveake> :(
[11:17] <eroomde> whereas the agilent is completely flat across the sweep range
[11:17] <daveake> as you'd expect
[11:17] <eroomde> and has rs232 on the back with a publish interface, so you can enter arb waveforms in however you want
[11:17] <eroomde> whereas the rigol would make you eneter it in via the front panel if you didn't have winxp
[11:17] <eroomde> with is masochistic
[11:17] <daveake> yep
[11:18] <eroomde> so basically, whenever i look a bit deeper into their stuff, i sometimes-to-often (but not always) find little dealbreakers like that
[11:18] <eroomde> things that would bite you in the bum big time if you didn't know about them
[11:18] <daveake> Actually this isn't bad value - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Agilent-DSO3102A-100MHz-1GS-s-2-Chan-Digital-Storage-Oscilloscope-w-WARRANTY-/290610167810?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item43a9b74002#ht_712wt_1163
[11:18] <eroomde> all that said, i hear great things about their scopes
[11:18] <eroomde> and infact the cheaper agilents are just rebranded rigols
[11:19] <daveake> !!
[11:19] <eroomde> yes
[11:19] <eroomde> it even says so in the firmware
[11:19] <eroomde> and their spectrum analysers have been getting praise too
[11:20] <joph> eroomde, the agilent is better if you want to customize it for a special application cause you can easily control it through rs232 (if it's possible to control the device through rs232, but i think so), the rigol has on the first look better specs, but i would suggest to try both of them (may you ask your local dealer) and then choose the device which is better to control
[11:20] <daveake> I went through all the reviews I could find Rigol vs Own etc. Rigol have the better software but to get the high sample rate they interleave 4 ADCs whereas Owon use one.
[11:20] <eroomde> joph: i've more or less ascertained that and decided on the agilent
[11:21] <eroomde> in the rigol's favour though, in a big way, is 2 channels with arbitrary phase offset between them
[11:21] <joph> i also need a function generator, but both of them are a little bit to expensive
[11:21] <eroomde> so you can easily make, for example, a local I and Q source for testing demodulation
[11:21] <joph> yeah
[11:21] <daveake> You really do need to read up on these things to find out what's best for you
[11:21] <zyp> aren't rigol stuff configurable over usbtmc through a documented protocol?
[11:21] <zyp> I seem to recall reading the protocol spec for that a few years ago
[11:22] <joph> zyp, possible, but a usb stack is more complicated with e.g. a µC then rs232 ;)
[11:22] <joph> that was my thought
[11:22] <eroomde> i agree
[11:22] <joph> but you're right, usb has also it advances
[11:22] <joph> *than
[11:22] <eroomde> personally, i am a lot more at home knocking up a script to enter a csv waveform over rs232 than over usb
[11:22] <eroomde> that might just reflect more on my coding schools i'd grant you
[11:23] <eroomde> skills*
[11:23] <zyp> I once wrote a python script to dump screenshots from my rigol over usbtmc
[11:23] <fsphil> usb is a few layers away from being useful like that
[11:23] <eroomde> both the agilent stuff and the rigols have interfaces that let you plug in their arb wavefor generators into their scopes
[11:23] <zyp> usb is really not that hard, and iirc usbtmc is text based
[11:24] <eroomde> and replay captured signals stored on the scope
[11:24] <eroomde> which is super cool
[11:25] <joph> that's nice
[11:26] <zyp> http://www.cibomahto.com/2010/04/controlling-a-rigol-oscilloscope-using-linux-and-python/
[11:27] <eroomde> that's a super link
[11:27] <eroomde> *bookmarked*
[11:27] <eroomde> thanks
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[11:27] <zyp> so in other words, from a pc perspective, using linux with the usbtmc driver, usbtmc is about as hard to use as rs232
[11:27] <eroomde> see what i'm hoping is, cos rigol make agilent's cheaper scopes, that the interfaces to the arb waveform generators will be the same
[11:27] <daveake> Talking of Python, what's a good get-up-to-speed-quickly book for an old fart who's used sevceral languages?
[11:28] <eroomde> get up to speed quickly would be Dive into Python
[11:28] <daveake> cheers
[11:28] <eroomde> get up to speed slowly would be Learn Python The Hard Way
[11:28] <cuddykid> ahh - talking of python....
[11:28] <zyp> there is some «python for programmers» intro somewhere
[11:28] <eroomde> both are good, both very different
[11:28] <eroomde> DITP would be a hopless thing to give a new programmer
[11:28] <cuddykid> how easy is it to write gui stuff with python? (coming from a C background)
[11:29] <zyp> easy.
[11:29] <eroomde> but is great if you just want to grok the syntax and style/idioms quickly
[11:29] <daveake> C++ in 21 days ... http://b.asset.soup.io/asset/0723/4939_e615_744.png
[11:29] <zyp> cuddykid, what's your favorite gui toolkit?
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[11:29] <zyp> I prefer using Qt through PySide
[11:29] <cuddykid> zyp: never used one before - complete beginner for gui stuff - hence I was wondering just how easy/hard it is to learn gui stuff and is python recommended?
[11:30] <zyp> then I'll recommend pyside :)
[11:30] <cuddykid> ahh ok :D
[11:30] <cuddykid> thanks
[11:30] <eroomde> i think pyside is probably the thing to learn too
[11:30] <eroomde> it's qt based which seems to be the nicest cross platform widget toolkit atm
[11:31] <zyp> last thing I made is this: http://bin.jvnv.net/f/Da1fb.png
[11:31] <cuddykid> oh nice :)
[11:31] <eroomde> and of the python qt implementations, pyside seems to be the best, and most accomodatingly licensed
[11:31] <zyp> that's less than 100 lines of python, including zigbee communication and everything
[11:31] <cuddykid> wow
[11:31] <cuddykid> is python OO?
[11:31] <zyp> yes, very much so
[11:31] <zyp> everything is an object
[11:31] <cuddykid> cool - beginning in that area too :P - currently on a java course at uni
[11:32] <fsphil> python might actually make qt nice
[11:32] <eroomde> cuddykid: have a go with Learn Python The Hard Way
[11:32] <zyp> qt is pretty nice as it is
[11:32] <eroomde> you'll blast through the early chapters
[11:32] <eroomde> so do them anyway
[11:32] <cuddykid> cheers eroomde, will take a look
[11:32] <eroomde> and then the latter stuff might be quite interesting
[11:32] <zyp> I'd suggest just fire up the interactive interpreter and start doing stuff
[11:33] <eroomde> particuarly pleasing is the chaper(s) on packaging and distributing your modules
[11:33] <eroomde> i dunno zyp - LPTHW can be done in 2 days easily
[11:33] <zyp> python's interactive interpreter is pretty much the single best feature of the language
[11:33] <eroomde> and it'll get you going if you're a relatively inexperienced programmer
[11:34] <eroomde> i agree with you though, i have ipython open more or less the whole time in a terminal
[11:34] <cuddykid> ublox has arrived - yet again a massive packaging overkill
[11:34] <eroomde> as my calulcator
[11:34] <zyp> I don't use ipython, I use normal interactive python
[11:34] <cuddykid> :O
[11:34] <cuddykid> never going to be able to solder this thing!
[11:34] <eroomde> i use ipyhon --pylab
[11:34] <eroomde> ipython*
[11:35] <eroomde> cos most of what i do is numerical processing
[11:35] <zyp> I use pylab with normal interactive python when required
[11:35] <eroomde> i think it's a wonderul environment
[11:35] <zyp> yeah, but ipython is not as ubiquitous
[11:36] <eroomde> ipthython qtconsole --pylab also kives you tooltip documentation
[11:36] <zyp> and to be honest I forgot what the advantages of ipython were
[11:36] <eroomde> but doesn't seem mega stable
[11:36] <eroomde> pretty colours mainly
[11:36] <eroomde> but also ipython specific tools
[11:36] <eroomde> like for timing things
[11:37] <eroomde> and tab completion
[11:37] <eroomde> and you can get documentation with '?' so for example x.fft.fft?
[11:38] <eroomde> would give you the fft docs
[11:39] <eroomde> it's just a bit more useful, i find, when you're just playing around with some numerical data, trying to extract something meaningful from it. if you already know what you're going to write i don't see that it has any advantage over anything else
[11:39] <cuddykid> UpuWork/Upu: how the **** do you solder one of these uBlox's ?!?!? It's wincy!
[11:39] <UpuWork> haha
[11:39] <cuddykid> my blob of solder is usually about half the size of the whole thing
[11:39] <cuddykid> lol
[11:39] <UpuWork> 2 methods
[11:39] <zyp> http://paste.jvnv.net/view/uZdfV <- I found the code of that GUI in the screenshot
[11:39] <zyp> or rather, an older version of it
[11:40] <cuddykid> nice zyp
[11:40] <eroomde> python is just lovely
[11:40] <UpuWork> 1/ Small tip, small solder i.e 0.5mm diameter or less and flux flux more flux and some flux sauce
[11:40] <eroomde> so terse yet completely readable
[11:40] <zyp> the changes are pretty much the amount of signals, the rest are in the ui file
[11:41] <UpuWork> 2/ Solder paste, apply with syringe , cook on a skillet
[11:41] <UpuWork> or toaster oven I think eroomde uses
[11:41] <The-Compiler> talking about uBlox, ever tried to write them and ask them to give you stuff for free?
[11:41] <cuddykid> UpuWork: which is probably going to be the easiest? if any lol
[11:42] <eroomde> zyp: how do you write/create your .ui files?
[11:42] <eroomde> with a gui thing or manually?
[11:42] <zyp> with qt designer
[11:42] <The-Compiler> worked for me, 2 evalboards totally worth nearly 900 USD for free :P
[11:42] <UpuWork> I did it using a soldering iron cuddykid but I think I'm going to reload on a skillet next time
[11:42] <eroomde> ok cool
[11:42] <eroomde> that's a very convincing exposition there. the screenshot and the code
[11:42] <zyp> you could aswell build the ui in python, but creating it graphically is much faster, it's graphical after all :p
[11:43] <cuddykid> ahh ok UpuWork thanks
[11:43] <eroomde> no no, i'm entirely with you on doing it with a designer
[11:43] <cuddykid> last thing I want to do is destroy the tiny thing
[11:43] <cuddykid> must dash - bbl
[11:46] <zyp> nothing stops you from creating subwidges in the designer and stitching them together with python, or making a framework in designer and filling it in with python either
[11:46] <zyp> subwidgets*
[11:46] <zyp> this goes for qt in general, not just python+qt
[11:48] <eroomde> indeed
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[12:09] <Darkside> guyyys
[12:09] <Darkside> http://rfhead.net/?p=446
[12:09] <Darkside> :D
[12:09] <eroomde> hah
[12:09] <eroomde> another success story
[12:09] <Darkside> yep
[12:09] <eroomde> i have prey installed on mine too
[12:10] <eroomde> but i have full disc encryption on
[12:11] <eroomde> so i'm not sure if prey will be of any use
[12:12] <Darkside> on a mac?
[12:13] <Darkside> iCloud does basically the same thing, even with Filevault 2 enabled
[12:13] <Darkside> only if you turn on the guest account though
[12:13] <eroomde> yeah
[12:13] <eroomde> i don't have a guest account either
[12:13] <Darkside> but yeah, sign up to icloud
[12:13] <Darkside> it adds a guest account
[12:13] <eroomde> i think basically if the hardware goes it might just be gone
[12:13] <eroomde> icloud is paid for though right?
[12:13] <Darkside> so on the lock screen you can click guest account and it reboots into a mini OSX installation
[12:13] <Darkside> nope
[12:13] <Darkside> free
[12:13] <eroomde> ah
[12:13] <Darkside> anyway, it reboots into this mini OSX which just has safari
[12:13] <eroomde> ok
[12:13] <eroomde> cool
[12:13] <Darkside> and prompts you to connect to the web
[12:14] <Darkside> as soon as you do, bam, icloud has your location
[12:14] <Darkside> and your data is still safe
[12:17] <fsphil> woo, extendible pole arrived from maplin
[12:18] <Darkside> i thought you already had one of those
[12:18] <Darkside> >_>
[12:18] <daveake> size matters
[12:18] <fsphil> that was the fibreglass fishing pole thingy
[12:18] <daveake> as does stiffness
[12:18] <Darkside> daveake: hehe
[12:18] <fsphil> Darkside, you got your laptop back?
[12:18] <Darkside> yup
[12:18] <fsphil> sweet!
[12:18] <fsphil> no damage?
[12:18] <Darkside> nope, but no power supply
[12:18] <daveake> fsphil How do you plan to mount it?
[12:19] <daveake> Darkside Didn't see that you'd lost it. I left one at Heathrow airport car park a few years back, but a security bloke found and handed it in
[12:20] <Darkside> i didnt lose it
[12:20] <Darkside> it got stolen from my office
[12:20] <daveake> ouch
[12:21] <fsphil> not sure yet daveake
[12:21] <daveake> I wasn't sure whether to put some brackets on the house
[12:21] <daveake> But opted for the ground anchor and guy ropes
[12:22] <fsphil> I'd like some kind of tripod
[12:22] <eroomde> giggle
[12:23] <daveake> YOu'll need one as big as the in "The Tripods"
[12:23] <fsphil> easy... although it would be annoying if they enslaved the earth
[12:23] <daveake> sub-optimal
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[12:52] <griffonbot> Received email: Spike (Chris Foote) "[UKHAS] Information on 'tethered' balloon use"
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[13:13] <fsphil> hah, "I hear people who know everything really like Lisp", from the learning python the hard way book
[13:14] <natrium> :)
[13:32] <Laurenceb> anyone here ever collected from RS depots?
[13:32] <Laurenceb> "Collection available after 10am next working day"
[13:32] <Laurenceb> but then it says "collected at: 13:59 - Mon, 20 February"
[13:33] <Laurenceb> im guessing stuff thats not in stock at depot has to be collected next day maybe?
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[13:43] <cuddykid> yay - 2 free sarantel antennas :D
[13:48] <fsphil> woo-hoo!
[13:50] <natrium> cuddykid: sharing is caring
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[14:03] <daveake> New DMM "Safety Precautions" ... "Exercise extreme caution when ... measuring current greate than 10mA ..."
[14:03] <daveake> Gee, didn't realise I'd been taking such risks :p
[14:06] <fsphil> prey looks pretty interesting Darkside, was it pre-installed or did you add it?
[14:07] <Darkside> i installed it
[14:08] <fsphil> gonna try it on my phone
[14:08] <staylo> daveake: Remember to wear your gopro HD helmet camera when testing power supplies, I'll bet youtube users can't get enough of that extreme danger
[14:09] <fsphil> lol
[14:09] <daveake> Yeah, my PSU goes all the way up to 11
[14:09] <daveake> Or was it 30V?
[14:09] <fsphil> psh, mine does 12v
[14:09] <daveake> Or maybe to infinity, and beyond
[14:09] <fsphil> infinite voltages are bad for your health
[14:10] <The-Compiler> I have 100V 30A DC power supplies here :P
[14:10] <daveake> eek
[14:10] <daveake> Try not to short that out
[14:10] <fsphil> nice!
[14:10] <The-Compiler> working as an electronical engineer in a company which does industry electronics
[14:11] <fsphil> my pv array produces about 60 volts but not as many amps as that
[14:11] <fsphil> and i have shorted that out :) makes a nice spark
[14:11] <The-Compiler> I accidentally shorted like 10A once
[14:12] <The-Compiler> wanted to set the current limit, but forgot to turn it down before shorting :D
[14:12] <daveake> A friend once asked "Can I borrow your multimeter? It has a 10A range, right?".
[14:12] <daveake> So I asked what he wanted to test
[14:12] <daveake> "My car battery"
[14:13] <daveake> Needless to say I sent him on his way sans DMM :)
[14:13] <Laurenceb> http://www.varesano.net/
[14:13] <fsphil> ooch
[14:13] <The-Compiler> but stuff like this happens rather often here, always something to laugh
[14:15] <The-Compiler> some weeks ago the apprentice accidentally supplied a rather big electrolyt-capacitor with the wrong polarity... was a nice smoke and smell all over the building
[14:17] <daveake> I had a 500uF 6V cap blow up in my hand at school
[14:17] <daveake> Sorry, 5000uF
[14:18] <daveake> Fortunately the contents flew away from my hand not into it
[14:18] <daveake> White smoke everywhere
[14:18] <daveake> And yes that was the wrong polarity
[14:29] <gonzo_> the big HV caps are nice when they go off, the 6" high ones
[14:30] <gonzo_> any as valve kit is pretty old, those big caps do have a tendency to go off
[14:30] <daveake> Have we stumbled upon a new cutdown option? :p
[14:31] <gonzo_> they do go off with enough force to be in the same class as a pyro
[14:31] <gonzo_> all the pretty tin foil confettii is impressive thopugh
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[14:32] <kokey> the rolls inside of those caps leave an aweful smell on the hands
[14:32] <kokey> I remember putting glue on my hand at school just to mask out the smell
[14:32] <gonzo_> (I still recon a small slow burn pyro would make a good cutdown)
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[14:35] Nick change: daveake_ -> daveake
[14:47] <griffonbot> @whenevercomsat: RT @LVL1WhiteStar: Adam at Satellitephonestore.com rocks, got us an iridium 9602 modem less than 24 hours & activated! #UKHAS #iridium ... [http://twitter.com/whenevercomsat/status/171606778436534272]
[14:47] <fsphil> nice
[14:52] <costyn> kinda cool that iridium still is around, after its rocky start
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[15:01] <fsphil> not the same management is it?
[15:02] <kokey> how's inmarsat doing?
[15:02] <kokey> I used to watch the iridium flares in gibraltar
[15:02] <fsphil> aah seen a few of those, they can be pretty bright
[15:03] <kokey> yeah but you've got to get the timing and location right
[15:03] <kokey> I've given up on trying to show it to other people
[15:03] <fsphil> heavens-above is good for that
[15:03] <kokey> the ISS was much better for that
[15:03] <kokey> yeah I have a script that scrapes heavens above and send me an email and SMS at the right times
[15:04] <kokey> but I switched it off after moving to the UK again
[15:04] <kokey> I might switch it on again once I combine it with some visibility data from a weather source
[15:05] <griffonbot> Received email: James Coxon "Re: [UKHAS] Information on 'tethered' balloon use"
[15:05] <fsphil> heh, yea. "oh look, cloud"
[15:06] <fsphil> I was able to show a few friends and family the ISS one night last year, and one of them spotted a smaller dot moving ahead of it. turned out to be a supply ship
[15:07] <daveake> I think it was last year we watched the ISS and shuttle fly across the evening sky
[15:07] <kokey> I can't find any pricing for data with Iridium SBD
[15:08] <fsphil> things like that make it seem more real for people
[15:08] <kokey> fsphil: cool, one of the brightest passes I've seen of the ISS was when the space shuttle was about 7 miles behind it doing an approach. two very bright dots moving across the sky
[15:08] <daveake> http://www.blipfoto.com/entry/1014268
[15:08] <fsphil> neat! I never got a chance to see that, either bad orbit or cloud or I was asleep :)
[15:09] <kokey> after I saw it pass I went indoors and turned on NASA TV to watch them approach some more, it was cool
[15:09] <kokey> fsphil: it was easy in gibraltar, almost no clouds most of summer and not bad to be outside either
[15:09] <fsphil> wonder what they're going to do with the old shuttle docking port
[15:09] <kokey> not great for stars though because of the haze and light pollution
[15:10] <daveake> This was quite early in the evening. No clouds
[15:10] <fsphil> rare
[15:11] <kokey> SBD Data (per 1,000 Bytes): $1.25
[15:11] <kokey> that's what mobile roaming costs anyway? ;-)
[15:11] <daveake> eek
[15:12] <daveake> A couplf of days after that shot we just had some thin wispy clouds in the evening - http://www.blipfoto.com/entry/1020598
[15:12] <fsphil> precious bits
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[15:17] <fsphil> I wonder if they could spot payload from the iss
[15:17] <fsphil> well not the payload, but the balloon anyway
[15:18] <kokey> fsphil: perhaps if you attach a green laser with very good guidance
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[15:24] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[15:31] <kokey> it's that part of the afternoon that I struggle to focus on work
[15:32] <GW8RAK> The bit from 1.30 to 5 ?
[15:32] <LazyLeopard> The bit after 12:00 ? ;)
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[15:33] <kokey> the bit after lunch and going home
[15:33] <kokey> until going home, that is
[15:34] <GW8RAK> The bit that is traditionally called "the afternoon"
[15:35] <SamSilver_> the mornings are no picnic
[15:36] <fsphil> unless it's actually a picnic
[15:36] <gonzo_> they are 'the lie in'
[15:36] <GW8RAK> No, picnics are in the afternoon.
[15:36] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[15:37] <gonzo_> (even if I am at work)
[15:37] <GW8RAK> Do I get the feeling everyone is at "that part of the afternoon"?
[15:37] Action: fsphil has been for some time
[15:38] <GW8RAK> Reminder to self. Don't photograph yellow things as they confuse the flash sync on the camera
[15:38] <GW8RAK> 30 mins wasted.
[15:38] <number10> its that time were I am thinking only 20minutes to go
[15:39] <GW8RAK> By the time I go home, it looks like it'll be raining.
[15:39] <gonzo_> it wopuld be that here, if i'd have dragged myself out of bed a bit earlier
[15:39] <daveake> Customers ... one complaining that an export function isn't exporting his data. Except he didn't actually import what he's trying to export....
[15:40] <gonzo_> life would be so much easier without customers
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[15:40] <daveake> so it would
[15:40] <gonzo_> I'm bored now. Actually fixed something, so want to go home on a high, rather than finding another prob
[15:44] <kokey> I'm too tired to write code
[15:44] <kokey> which means I'm too tired
[15:44] <fsphil> I wrote some of my best code when half asleep :)
[15:44] <fsphil> the comments don't make much sense though
[15:45] <kokey> well, it's strange, if I'm in the zone I can keep on coding quite late
[15:45] <kokey> but if I'm too tired during the afternoon dip then I can't
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[16:41] <_Hix> anyone on the channel? It's blank from my end
[16:41] <UpuWork> lots of people here
[16:41] <UpuWork> what client are you using ?
[16:41] <daveake> Nope. Nothing to see here
[16:41] <SpeedEvil> We're just ignoring you.
[16:43] <_Hix> Chrome - seems to be showing up stuff now. maybe it has just sparked into life
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[16:48] <_Hix> What would be a decent 70cm reciever to look for, for basic tracking? Suppose it needs to be portable, apart from that no restrictions apart from the cheaper the better
[16:49] <daveake> Cheap (circa £100) = AOR AR8000, Yaesu FT790
[16:51] <_Hix> ok cool - I'll note them down and start looking. From my initial reading up, it seems that you can make a yagi yourself - are they pants or as good as a purchased item [assuming it's made properly]
[16:53] <daveake> Dunno - not tried. That's the wronbg side of my "effort vs monney saved" line :p
[16:53] <_Hix> :) they don't seem to complex - but then again I may be missing a fundamental point.
[16:54] <daveake> I /think/ home-made aerials are fine so long as you get the dimensions right. With a yagi that's quite a few to get right. Anyone who actually knows though is welcome to step in here :)
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[16:56] <fsphil> don't know much about these. I think the more elements you add the more accurate the dimensions need ot be
[16:56] <fsphil> there are online calculators for getting the element lengths and distances
[16:57] <fsphil> I did what daveake did though :)
[16:57] <daveake> Also, if you're thinking about chasing, you'll mainly be needing a mag-mount aerial, circa £15.
[16:58] <daveake> Yagi is great for DF when you get there, or picking up a signal after it's landed
[16:58] <_Hix> suppose buying one in the first instance is one less item on the "things I probably screwd up to cause an error in the flight" list :p
[16:59] <daveake> True. And it's a long list :D
[17:00] <fsphil> +1 on a little mag mount
[17:00] <fsphil> I don't think I use the yagi last time at all
[17:00] <fsphil> but great to have just in case
[17:03] <daveake> Was very handy on my first flight, as we lost track of where it was. Driving along towards the last known position we got a sub-second bleep of rtty so we stopped but couldn't get any more. Yagi saved us.
[17:03] <daveake> Well, saved a lot of hunting anyway
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[17:20] <kokey> I wonder if it might be easy to hunt for a mobile phone if you have a USRP
[17:25] <chris_99> yes, i think it would they have identifiable numbers
[17:25] <chris_99> i'm sure someone did something in a supermarket tracking peoples movement using mobile phones
[17:26] <kokey> i suspect the transmitters on phones are well optimised
[17:27] <chris_99> what do you mean?
[17:27] <chris_99> for what?
[17:27] <kokey> to get a signal out over a couple of km
[17:27] <kokey> while lying on the ground, sideways, between the grass
[17:27] <chris_99> they change their power output i believe depending on the signal strength of the tower
[17:28] <daveake> yes they do
[17:28] <kokey> true, boosting it when trying to search for towers
[17:28] <_Hix> http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/jan/04/shopping-centre-tracking-system-condemned
[17:29] <kokey> that said, I guess sending a mobile phone up is becoming more optional
[17:29] <kokey> thanks _Hix
[17:29] <chris_99> pretty clever idea though heh, _Hix
[17:30] <kokey> my friend bought a USRP recently, thinking of uses for it ;-)
[17:30] <chris_99> ooh nice
[17:30] <chris_99> i'd love to get one
[17:30] <chris_99> try SDR GPS
[17:30] <LazyLeopard> Heh. Simple solution if you don't fancy being tracked, though. ;)
[17:31] <chris_99> turn your phone off?
[17:31] <SpeedEvil> get a few friends and do a DIY one of: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_Kilometre_Array
[17:31] <kokey> could do a square 100km array
[17:31] <kokey> though resolution might be a bit rubbish
[17:31] <_Hix> don't know if this works on other phones but *#*#4636#*#* gives you access to the phone signal data on android, amongst other info
[17:32] <chris_99> see whether you can clone your car key radio transmitter, that'd be shocking if that works though as they normally use some kind of LFSR and crypto
[17:32] <LazyLeopard> A friend and a few of his friends have a loyalty card game that involves a drink in the pub now and again and some shuffling...
[17:32] <_Hix> think cars change the code each lock / unlock cycle
[17:32] <chris_99> yup they do
[17:32] <chris_99> normally
[17:33] <SpeedEvil> Hmm - interesting.
[17:33] <kokey> could play with gate remotes though
[17:33] <kokey> brute force them, slowly
[17:33] <SpeedEvil> With enough dipoles, spread over the earth, you can do 'staring' at a given object 24*7
[17:33] <SpeedEvil> The datarates get scary
[17:33] <LazyLeopard> Heh. Don't key up on 70cms in a confined area full of cars...
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[17:34] <chris_99> jam gps signals so your car thinks its somewhere else
[17:34] <SpeedEvil> GPS meaconing is farily easy
[17:34] <chris_99> also decrypting dect is easy apparently
[17:34] <cuddykid> if Iran can do it - anyone can :P
[17:34] <SpeedEvil> It would be a pretty minor tweak of Laurenceb's new GPS-SDR project
[17:34] <LazyLeopard> ...especially if the confined area is a ferry deck and everyone's just trying to get into their cars for disembarkation...
[17:34] <SpeedEvil> You'd need to swap the ADC for a DAC, and add a Rb time source.
[17:35] <chris_99> also crack GSM
[17:36] <chris_99> (of your own phone
[17:36] <chris_99> )
[17:37] <SpeedEvil> I would like an open 3G modem.
[17:37] <chris_99> that'd be pretty funky
[17:37] <SpeedEvil> Decent signal strength, and being able to lock to one tower.
[17:37] <kristianpaul> Did i read gps-sdr project, wich one??
[17:37] <SpeedEvil> Signal strength reporting, I mean
[17:38] <kristianpaul> Dactyl?
[17:38] <SpeedEvil> kristianpaul: Laurenceb is doing a stm32F based one. GPS frontend + correlators on the stm32 - looks quite possible to do easily a 12 sat fix with plenty CPU left over
[17:38] <SpeedEvil> Not dactyl
[17:38] <kristianpaul> oh
[17:39] <kristianpaul> is not in github?
[17:39] <SpeedEvil> I get the feeling it's more on random scraps of paper and stuff at the moment.
[17:39] <kristianpaul> i'm interested on the correlators source code ;_D
[17:39] <kristianpaul> oh, ok
[17:40] <kristianpaul> most because correlation in software usually FFT in paralles
[17:40] <kristianpaul> and is quite heavy right?
[17:40] <SpeedEvil> Well - it depends.
[17:41] <SpeedEvil> You can either do FFT, or simply multiply input signal with spreading code, and count the number of ones
[17:41] <SpeedEvil> the former is good for locking
[17:41] <kristianpaul> but multiply in software before get the locking means you need to pass trought trial and error until got correlation peak
[17:41] <kristianpaul> that take time no?
[17:41] <kristianpaul> hmm
[17:42] Action: kristianpaul reads again SpeedEvil words
[17:42] <SpeedEvil> You lock initially with FFT
[17:42] <kristianpaul> well osgps works that way..
[17:42] <kristianpaul> ah ok
[17:42] <kristianpaul> interesting
[17:42] <SpeedEvil> Then don't do the correlation that way
[17:43] <SpeedEvil> I had a similar project - which hsan't got far - but I was just using the dumb multiple correlators approach
[17:43] <SpeedEvil> Wander over freq/code space
[17:44] <kristianpaul> like fastgps? but not really fast :)
[17:45] <SpeedEvil> Dunno fastgps
[17:45] <chris_99> do you know what he's using for the radio reciever part of the system, SpeedEvil?
[17:45] <kristianpaul> Anyway, looks interesting idea, i quited that and move to correlation to fpga plus, but all software based still interesting if it avoid asm of course :)
[17:46] <SpeedEvil> It doesn't.
[17:46] <SpeedEvil> It really doesn't.
[17:46] <SpeedEvil> Hardcore asm.
[17:46] <kristianpaul> ;)
[17:46] <SpeedEvil> Though much is probably simple code generator or macro
[17:46] <SpeedEvil> I forget what he said he was using.
[17:49] <kristianpaul> correlator pointers :D
[17:54] <SpeedEvil> I mean the hardware
[17:54] <SpeedEvil> RF
[17:54] <kristianpaul> ah
[17:54] <SpeedEvil> IIRC my scheme was based around a 18MHz or so bitstream part
[17:55] <SpeedEvil> simply take 32 bits at a time, and xor with a bitstream from ROM.
[17:55] <SpeedEvil> Then countones - using tables.
[18:02] <_Hix> has anyone used the uBlox MAX-6 with arduino on here? Anthony said something about not being able to use them without a voltage convertor as they are 3.3v I've got a 3.3v out on my uno. Is this not usable?
[18:03] jcoxon (~jcoxon@87.115.59.249) joined #highaltitude.
[18:03] <_Hix> or is it the serial Tx Rx that are 5v
[18:04] <_Hix> just hooke it up to the meter and tx pin 1 is 4.8v
[18:05] <zyp> put some resistors in series, and it's probably fine
[18:05] <daveake> Not used the Uno, but I'm pretty sure the logic is 5V
[18:05] <daveake> The 3V3 is for powering any low-current 3V3 devices.
[18:05] <daveake> So connect GPS Tx straight to Uno Rx
[18:05] <daveake> And use a pot divider the other way
[18:07] <jcoxon> evening all
[18:08] <Pavix> Howdy
[18:10] <jcoxon> mwhahaha my 3400mAh lipo is fully charged
[18:12] <Pavix> UPS dropped this off today...http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/7986/img0073mc.jpg
[18:13] <jcoxon> Pavix, oooh what make is that?
[18:13] <Pavix> I got it off amazon, not sure. Let me pull it up
[18:14] <Lunar_Lander> hello daveake
[18:14] <Pavix> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00513FWQI/ref=oh_o00_s00_i00_details
[18:15] <jcoxon> interesting
[18:15] <jcoxon> looks like its from india
[18:15] <cuddykid> jeez - that guy is over inflating a little! unless he wants a rapid ascent
[18:15] <jcoxon> according to the box
[18:15] <jcoxon> its air i suspect
[18:15] <Lunar_Lander> hello cuddykid
[18:15] <jcoxon> looks like a leaf blower
[18:15] <Lunar_Lander> who overinflates?
[18:15] <cuddykid> lol jcoxon
[18:15] <Lunar_Lander> hi jcoxon
[18:15] <cuddykid> Lunar_Lander: hiya
[18:16] <Pavix> Yea, that's well beyond 6ft I think
[18:16] <Lunar_Lander> wo overinflated?
[18:16] <Lunar_Lander> *who
[18:16] <cuddykid> Lunar_Lander: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00513FWQI/ref=oh_o00_s00_i00_details
[18:16] <Pavix> Lunar_Lander: look at the link
[18:17] <Lunar_Lander> OK one moment
[18:17] <Lunar_Lander> OHHH
[18:18] <cuddykid> daveake: I just love -> "It's all coming back to me now"
[18:19] <cuddykid> jcoxon: this is the balloon company - http://www.pawanexport.com/
[18:20] <Lunar_Lander> since when do they sell balloons on amazon?
[18:20] <jcoxon> interesting to see how good they are
[18:20] <cuddykid> btw, question for all: is there anyway of getting a logo or something printed on the balloon? (my guess is it would damage it&)
[18:20] <cuddykid> jcoxon: might send them an email in a mo
[18:21] <Lunar_Lander> LOL check "Customers Who Bought This Item Also Bought"
[18:21] <Lunar_Lander> and the SPOT
[18:21] <cuddykid> they do a lot of sizes
[18:21] <Lunar_Lander> $136.29 - $9,999.99
[18:21] <cuddykid> lol Lunar_Lander
[18:21] <Pavix> jcoxon: I'll make sure to post a link to my blog when the flight is over. It looks based on the model that it's a sounding balloon
[18:22] <daveake> cuddykid - sorry was afk. Glad you liked it :-).
[18:23] <_Hix> L_L *Agent/Distributor Inquiries for USA/ UK are welcome*
[18:23] <_Hix> from Pawan
[18:24] <Pavix> Yea, http://www.pawanexport.com/meteorological-weather-balloons.html looks like they have a paypal cart. I bought through amazon because I have a prime account, free next day air shipping
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[18:25] <Lunar_Lander> ah _Hix
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[18:27] <_Hix> just found this for SPOT http://www.globaltelesat.co.uk/satphone/SPOT-Connect-Satellite-Personal-Tracker.html
[18:27] <_Hix> Pavix - does UK prime cover international purchases?
[18:28] <eroomde> daveake / fsphil : do you know of a simplish way of getting a fast bitstream (say 16Mbps) into a linux box continuously?
[18:28] <eroomde> such that you could record it into a file for, say, 10 minutes
[18:28] <Upu> 1Gb ?
[18:28] <eroomde> that'd do
[18:28] <Upu> thats not alot really modern HDD should be able to deal with 80Mb/sec constantly
[18:29] <eroomde> yes but getting it *in* to the machine is the problem
[18:29] <Upu> whats the source ?
[18:29] <eroomde> a chip
[18:29] <eroomde> wiggling io
[18:29] <eroomde> basically some sort of pre-existing io->usb bridge would be perfect
[18:29] <Pavix> _Hix: Not sure
[18:29] <eroomde> with linux drivers
[18:29] <Upu> USB sucks badly
[18:29] <Lunar_Lander> OK, going to ALDI
[18:29] <Upu> firewire or something
[18:29] <Lunar_Lander> cu later :)
[18:30] <Upu> Lunar too much information
[18:30] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[18:31] <cuddykid> lol
[18:32] <cuddykid> _Hix: it would be interesting if the SPOT connect could be hacked to send custom commands back etc
[18:32] <Upu> it can
[18:33] <Upu> http://natrium42.com/projects/spot/
[18:33] <cuddykid> oh nice
[18:33] <jcoxon> i'd avoid spot :-p
[18:33] <cuddykid> lol yes
[18:33] <Upu> haha
[18:33] <Upu> theres one somewhere in Kahazitan if you can find it
[18:34] <jcoxon> natrium and i have hacked it to the limit
[18:34] <cuddykid> :P
[18:34] <jcoxon> and its still not that good
[18:35] <cuddykid> we need our own HAB satellite in space :P
[18:36] <daveake> eroomde I was going to suggest something like http://origin.advantech.com.tw/products/PCI-1755/mod_88DBD822-FE16-421F-B456-783C53270C82.aspx but I see no Linux drivers
[18:44] <cuddykid> oh here we go again - another package shipped from nevada :P
[18:44] <cuddykid> really impressed with the companies that take the time to send samples/freebies
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[18:44] <daveake> and individuals ... ;)
[18:45] <cuddykid> oh yes daveake - how could I forget! :D
[18:46] <cuddykid> still got them both in working order :D and one has been to 30km :P
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[19:08] <jcoxon> ping fsphil
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[19:12] <number10> eroomde: will firewire do that?
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[19:18] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:19] <Pavix> Hello
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> hello Pavix
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> btw, I wanted to ask Upu why is USB bad?
[19:23] <Laurenceb_> http://www.element14.com/community/thread/15744
[19:23] <Laurenceb_> anyone here got that to work?
[19:23] <Laurenceb_> i get "tar: This does not look like a tar archive"
[19:24] <Pavix> is it a .tar.gz?
[19:24] <Pavix> if it is, you'll have to do tar zxvf
[19:24] <SpeedEvil> you mean the libpng?
[19:24] <Laurenceb_> libpng-1.4.8-i486-1.txz
[19:25] <Laurenceb_> yes
[19:25] <SpeedEvil> It's not compressed
[19:25] <SpeedEvil> tar -tvf libpng-1.4.8-i486-1.txz
[19:26] <Laurenceb_> same error
[19:26] <SpeedEvil> gnu tar?
[19:26] <SpeedEvil> http://slackware.osuosl.org/slackware-current/slackware/l/libpng-1.4.8-i486-1.txz
[19:27] <SpeedEvil> md5sum libpng-1.4.8-i486-1.txz
[19:27] <SpeedEvil> ebf0f61c96738b840afa104e6ed3a71f libpng-1.4.8-i486-1.txz
[19:27] <Laurenceb_> same here
[19:28] <SpeedEvil> extracts fine with tar --version
[19:28] <SpeedEvil> tar (GNU tar) 1.23
[19:28] <Laurenceb_> wtf
[19:28] <Laurenceb_> i seem to have tar from BSD
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[19:34] <Lunar_Lander> wb daveake_
[19:34] Nick change: daveake_ -> daveake
[19:36] <fsphil> pong jcoxon
[19:36] <Laurenceb_> looks like ill have to build from source
[19:36] <Laurenceb_> unless anyone can recompress it for me?
[19:37] <jcoxon> fsphil, so the c328 actually autobauds
[19:38] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: moment
[19:38] <fsphil> it does, but only with certain rates
[19:38] <jcoxon> according to the datasheet as well as mine
[19:38] Action: SpeedEvil downloads for the _third_ time.
[19:39] <SpeedEvil> http://www.mauve.plus.com/temp/tar.tar.gz
[19:39] <SpeedEvil> upload finished
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[19:41] <fsphil> it is massively fussy about the rate though
[19:41] <jcoxon> its massively fussy
[19:41] <SpeedEvil> It would be interesting to work out the band it'll lock
[19:41] <SpeedEvil> Is it for example, using the wrong divisor
[19:42] <jcoxon> i'm tempted by teh adafruit camera
[19:42] <Lunar_Lander> that module they have?
[19:42] <SpeedEvil> I wish there were open cameras.
[19:42] <Laurenceb_> thanks
[19:42] <SpeedEvil> np
[19:42] <Laurenceb_> i dont know wtf ubuntu have done
[19:42] <Laurenceb_> i have BSD tar
[19:43] <chris_99> Laurenceb_, i'm curious about your GPS SDR project, what are you using for reciever part out of interest?
[19:43] <Laurenceb_> tar: .: Cannot utime: Operation not permitted
[19:43] <Laurenceb_> tar: .: Cannot change mode to rwxr-xr-x: Operation not permitted
[19:43] <Laurenceb_> tar: Exiting with failure status due to previous errors
[19:43] <Laurenceb_> wtf
[19:43] <Laurenceb_> i think i need to reinstall tar
[19:44] <SpeedEvil> Wacky.
[19:44] <Laurenceb_> chris_99: nothing until i can fix eagle :P
[19:44] <SpeedEvil> I could zip it?
[19:44] <Laurenceb_> but se4120 and stm32f4
[19:44] <Laurenceb_> yeah ok, thanks
[19:44] <Laurenceb_> im going to have to tyr reinstalling tar at some point
[19:44] <fsphil> jcoxon, adafruit camera? *googles*
[19:45] <chris_99> cool, hadn't heard of chips like that
[19:45] <Laurenceb_> chris_99: both avaliable on digikey
[19:45] <SpeedEvil> same dir, t.zip, in 30s
[19:45] <Laurenceb_> crazy low prices
[19:45] <Laurenceb_> thanks
[19:45] <chris_99> are they reasonably fast shipping, as they seem to be a US company right
[19:46] <Laurenceb_> yeah ive hardly ever ordered from them, but they seem to be pretty good
[19:46] <Laurenceb_> the site is a bit lacking
[19:46] <Laurenceb_> mouser is the best but maybe not quite as large a range
[19:47] <SpeedEvil> If you order 50 quid, it's free ship
[19:47] <SpeedEvil> So it's not bad
[19:47] <Laurenceb_> the parametric search on mouser is amazing
[19:47] <chris_99> nice :) i'm just starting to make a PIC Ethernet board so might look at using them for that
[19:47] <chris_99> for the components
[19:48] <jcoxon> fsphil, http://www.adafruit.com/products/397
[19:50] <chris_99> or http://www.sparkfun.com/products/8668
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[19:52] <jcoxon> chris_99, i'm not sure anyone ever got that working!
[19:52] <fsphil> chris_99, that has a rolling shutter
[19:53] <fsphil> you'd get horrible images from a spinning payload
[19:53] <chris_99> oh heh
[19:53] <fsphil> the example images from that camera are not supported (yet), they use a different sampling factor -- but it might be configurable
[19:54] <fsphil> or I might be able to figure out a way to convert on the fly
[19:56] <fsphil> the linksprite uses the same format so it would be a useful feature
[19:56] <Laurenceb_> ok....
[19:56] <Laurenceb_> it installed
[19:56] <Laurenceb_> but eagle still have libpng error
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[19:56] <Laurenceb_> has anyone here actually got eagle 6 running on ubuntu?
[19:57] <jcoxon> fsphil, hmmm i'm just getting NAK errors :-(
[19:57] <fsphil> at any baud rate?
[19:57] <jcoxon> its a command header error
[19:57] <fsphil> can you swap the crystal or is it soldered onboard?
[19:58] <jcoxon> let me try other rates
[20:01] <daveake> Does this camera need a some preamble (e.g. a few "A" characters) in order to sense the baud rate, or can you just start sending real commands to it?
[20:01] <fsphil> I keep sending ack commands until it responds
[20:01] <daveake> ok
[20:01] <fsphil> with a short time between to see if it does
[20:01] <fsphil> if you bombard it it stops taking
[20:01] <fsphil> it's very huffy
[20:01] <daveake> sounds it
[20:02] <jcoxon> haha
[20:02] <jcoxon> its working
[20:02] <jcoxon> at 14400
[20:02] <fsphil> the one rate with the biggest error lol
[20:02] <daveake> lol
[20:03] <fsphil> reading up on FFTs and how to combine them. it's all gibberish!
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[20:12] <Laurenceb_> shared libraries have to be in /lib/ right?
[20:13] <fsphil> usually /lib /usr/lib or /usr/local/lib
[20:13] <SpeedEvil> They have to be in the path in /etc/ld.so.conf
[20:13] <Laurenceb_> ah
[20:14] <SpeedEvil> On - and /lib and /usr/lib
[20:14] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[20:15] <Laurenceb_> this isnt going to work
[20:15] <Laurenceb_> /etc/ld.so.conf just links a lot of other conf files
[20:15] <Laurenceb_> i dont know how the hell the element14 forum thing could ever work
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[20:16] <SpeedEvil> It doesn't - it lists directories in which li brary files can be found
[20:16] <SpeedEvil> and then ldconfig parses these into /etc/ld.so.cache - which is where the loader looks
[20:16] <SpeedEvil> Or something like that
[20:17] <Laurenceb_> so i have the libpng14 stuff in /lib/
[20:17] <Laurenceb_> now what?
[20:17] <SpeedEvil> run ldconfig
[20:17] <SpeedEvil> as root
[20:18] <Laurenceb_> ok
[20:18] <Laurenceb_> still broken
[20:18] <SpeedEvil> Also - you can set environemnt variabls LD_LIBRARY_PRELOAD or something, and load an indicidual library
[20:18] <cuddykid> does anyone ever hear from rob harrison these days? or is he going it alone?!
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[20:29] <_Hix-Android> Anyone got any arduino sketches I could nose through to help me get a grip on C++ stuff?
[20:30] <Pavix> I have some arduino stuff on my dropbox if you want access
[20:30] <Upu> hey _Hix-Android
[20:30] <Upu> there is some on the Wiki for linking up an NTX2 to Arduino
[20:31] <_Hix-Android> Pavix that'd be cool kartparts@gmail.com if you could share. Hi Anthony
[20:31] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[20:31] <Upu> hi
[20:32] <Upu> ah I just sent you a mail :)
[20:32] <_Hix-Android> Got that link thanks was looking for other info. More info better prepared
[20:32] <Laurenceb_> wtf
[20:32] <Upu> hope you're feeling better, the wife has it as well
[20:32] <Laurenceb_> built from source
[20:32] <Laurenceb_> still broken
[20:33] <Laurenceb_> im going to give up and go back to 5 :(
[20:33] <_Hix-Android> Rotten, can't shirk work either.
[20:33] <Laurenceb_> until someone has some better ubuntu install instructions
[20:33] <Upu> I love Linux but this /\
[20:33] <fsphil> it's the way it was built
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[20:34] <fsphil> if they're going to use an unusual version of libpng, they should compile it in statically
[20:35] <_Hix-Android> Ahh didn't realise you were doing assembled boards. Win! Just dug out proper old skool garmin
[20:35] <Upu> yeah going to do some pre-assembled breakouts
[20:36] <_Hix-Android> Bonus. One less thing to screw up
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[20:36] <Pavix> _Hix-Android: I've got about 30GB of tech/computer docs if you're interested in those at all. I havent had time to thumb through most of it
[20:36] <Laurenceb_> maybe i need to reinstall eagle
[20:36] <Laurenceb_> worth a shot
[20:37] <_Hix-Android> Pavix, Christ, just a couple of docs then.... I've got a folder I can share too, pdfs of mostly c# sql and .net blurb
[20:38] <Pavix> wget -r -m can be dangerous with the right google search ;)
[20:38] <_Hix-Android> I'll set up an ftp server to share en masse if that would be better for all
[20:39] <_Hix-Android> My Unix is pants as I've not used it since 09 as my CAD system is pretty much win these days
[20:40] <Laurenceb_> no 6.1 breaks too
[20:41] <Pavix> Sadly the company I work for has an almost non-existant unix/linux footprint. Primarily a MS shop
[20:43] <_Hix-Android> It's good for me, can remote desktop into my home server and use visual studio remotely when its quiet.
[20:44] <_Hix-Android> It's a novelty for me working in a job where I'm not 100% for 12hrs a day ;p
[20:45] <_Hix-Android> Problem is I'm from a mechanical eng background so all this elastictrickery and coding is a leap into the unknown
[20:46] <_Hix-Android> Ironically the same as sending something up to 30k metres
[20:47] <Upu> that bits easy its the getting it back that takes the skill
[20:47] <_Hix-Android> :D
[20:48] <daveake> Upu exactly :)
[20:48] <_Hix-Android> 9.81 is your friend at least
[20:49] <daveake> And the more difficult the recovery the greater the skill :p
[20:49] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:49] <Upu> trying to insinuate something daveake ?
[20:49] Action: Upu *pslash*
[20:49] <Upu> meh
[20:49] <_Hix-Android> I assume cov-balloon is coventry based? I work there in't week
[20:49] <daveake> splash indeed :)
[20:50] <daveake> Though it does help if the payload makes its own way home :)
[20:50] <Lunar_Lander> yeah xD
[20:50] <_Hix-Android> Water is not friend, especially salty expenses of said product
[20:51] <daveake> I can confirm that from recent experience
[20:52] <_Hix-Android> Lots of magic smoke and salt I'm assuming
[20:52] <daveake> No smoke; plenty of corrosion
[20:53] <gonzo_> a can of conformal coating would be a good investment.
[20:53] <daveake> good point
[20:53] <gonzo_> For sea water and poss condensation protection
[20:53] <Laurenceb_> ok i got it to install libpng
[20:53] <Laurenceb_> but now libssl is broken :(
[20:54] <_Hix-Android> Bugger, it was something I was considering in the design but not sure of best route
[20:54] <Laurenceb_> ive built libssl1.0.0 from source but its not linking correctly
[20:55] <_Hix-Android> Was thinking of a project box that was vacuum sealed in a food bag a la Bacon etc
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[20:56] <SpeedEvil> Fill it with vaseline.
[20:57] <SpeedEvil> Actually - that will screw with the RF
[20:58] <_Hix-Android> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B001HBP7HW/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=zedo.cm-21&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=B001HBP7HW
[21:00] <SpeedEvil> That seems rather expensive.
[21:01] <_Hix-Android> Not compared to a load of corroded kit
[21:01] <gonzo_> a sealed box/bag would inflate like a balloon at altitude
[21:01] <gonzo_> even spray coating would bubble a bit due to outgassing
[21:03] <_Hix-Android> Vacuum should be ok though no? I know its not a perfect vacuum but it probably would be ok
[21:03] <SpeedEvil> I mean - expensive for a bag sealer
[21:03] <SpeedEvil> _Hix-Android: If you seal a PCB - maybe
[21:03] <SpeedEvil> If you seal a box - no
[21:03] <SpeedEvil> The free air will expand ~100 times
[21:04] <Laurenceb_> can someone help me understand this?
[21:04] <Laurenceb_> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3153114/how-do-i-install-and-build-against-openssl-1-0-0-on-ubuntu
[21:04] <Laurenceb_> ive followed the instructions, but 1.0.0 still isnt found by eagle
[21:04] <Laurenceb_> - as in first answer
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[21:05] <_Hix-Android> I was factoring on getting all the boards and battery in a bag and giving it the gillian taylforth treatment
[21:07] <gonzo_> I always thought that a good advert strap line at that time could have been 'If you want to get ahead, get a Range Rover'
[21:07] <gonzo_> )you have to get it down to absolute vaccum to stop them inflating
[21:08] Action: SpeedEvil nitpicks - 10mB
[21:08] <SpeedEvil> (or whatever the pressure is at 38km or whatever
[21:08] <gonzo_> that would still cause it to inflate a bit
[21:08] <gonzo_> anyway, there would be out-gassing from materials
[21:09] <_Hix-Android> What about a gore-tex vacuum bag #fetchescoat
[21:10] <_Hix-Android> Or a vacuum bag with check valve?
[21:13] <SpeedEvil> http://deadspin.com/5886424/and-now-for-your-uk-weather-where-the-forecast-is-bucketloads-of-cunt
[21:14] <Laurenceb_> lol
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[21:15] <Laurenceb_> can anyone grab me a copy of libssl.so.1.0.0?
[21:15] <Laurenceb_> would that work?
[21:15] <Laurenceb_> just stick it in /lib
[21:16] <Laurenceb_> wait... i made install
[21:16] <_Hix-Android> Is it going to be very warm and sticky in the next few days then? Can't play video on phone but it has been well and truly bookmarked!
[21:16] <Laurenceb_> so it must have gone somewhere right?
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[21:19] <Laurenceb_> ok im missing the .so
[21:20] <Laurenceb_> how do i force it generate the library at compilcation?
[21:21] <Laurenceb_> everything is in /usr/local
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[21:37] <MLow> car seems ok
[21:37] <MLow> shifted much better with atf in is :S
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[21:43] <fsphil> I bet that's a relief
[21:43] <MLow> well i took it a couple miles
[21:43] <MLow> tonight i pick the gf up from work :S
[21:43] <MLow> 20mi round trip
[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[21:43] <Upu> atf ?
[21:44] <daveake> auto transmission fluid
[21:44] <fsphil> aaarg, stupid creative laps speakers and their random volume control
[21:44] <fsphil> labs*
[21:44] <Upu> oh
[21:45] <daveake> IIRC he drained it by mistake and then drove it . Something like that.
[21:45] <jonsowman> MLow: did you speak to a dealer?
[21:45] <MLow> no
[21:45] <MLow> talked to a mechanic last night
[21:46] <MLow> it's pretty much hit or miss either it's ruined or not
[21:46] <jonsowman> it is a diesel or petrol?
[21:46] <MLow> he made it sound like either the transmission will be shot and sieze or not
[21:46] <MLow> neither, gas :P
[21:47] <jonsowman> as in LPG?
[21:47] <MLow> MPG
[21:47] <MLow> gasoline, petrol, yes
[21:47] <MLow> 87 oct
[21:47] <MLow> you know the smelly clear stuff
[21:47] <MLow> that goes in the back
[21:48] <MLow> shit
[21:48] <jonsowman> right ok
[21:48] <fsphil> LPG has a nasty smell too
[21:48] <jonsowman> LPG smells dreadful
[21:48] <Upu> diesel ftw
[21:48] <MLow> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline
[21:48] <Upu> * petrol really but its too expensive :)
[21:49] <MLow> 3.41$/Gallon here
[21:49] <Upu> want to be sworn at MLow ?
[21:49] <daveake> :D
[21:49] <MLow> we kill people for our fuel so...no
[21:49] <Upu> I love american car adverts where they think 35mpg is somehow good
[21:50] <Upu> 1 sec working out what it is over here
[21:50] <MLow> 35 isnt real
[21:50] <MLow> i get about 25-30
[21:50] <jonsowman> often fuel has a lower octane level over there anyway
[21:50] <Pavix> Right, my 4wd truck gets about 20MPG
[21:50] <Upu> I get 55mpg out of a 3.0V6 with 240 bhp
[21:50] <daveake> Their gallons are smaller
[21:50] <jonsowman> daveake: that too
[21:51] <jonsowman> Upu: what car is it?
[21:51] <daveake> Upu what you got?
[21:51] <Upu> Audi A4
[21:51] <Upu> 3.0 quatrro thing
[21:51] <MLow> i thought measuring 100km in liters was common over there?
[21:51] <jonsowman> year?
[21:51] <fsphil> I've never measured mine
[21:51] <Upu> 57
[21:51] <zyp> according to google calc, I usually tank for the equivalent of $9/gallon
[21:51] <jonsowman> Upu: nice
[21:51] <daveake> I get ~29 from 3.0V6 petrol 194bhp
[21:51] <Upu> thats motorway
[21:51] <daveake> Yeah I can get maybe 34 if careful on a motorway
[21:52] <Upu> https://picasaweb.google.com/118244444241111963790/201110AvaLaunch#5658662996208873410
[21:52] <jonsowman> 2.1TD does around 45mpg average, 55 motorway
[21:52] <Upu> that one
[21:52] <MLow> i gun it a bit though
[21:52] <MLow> 1.6L I4
[21:52] <Upu> Polo Bluemotion can do something insane like 80mpg +
[21:52] <jonsowman> Upu: crazy isn't it
[21:53] <Upu> in fairness I bought the car remapped (unknowingly)
[21:53] <Upu> and due to issues Audi mapped it back to standard , when it was remapped it had 300bhp and some how managed 65mpg on the motorway
[21:53] <daveake> wow
[21:53] <daveake> I want one
[21:53] <daveake> :D
[21:53] <Upu> though it did pump out blacksmoke under hard acceleration which just wasn't cricket
[21:53] <MLow> whats that in american gal?
[21:54] <MLow> http://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ie=UTF-8&ion=1#hl=en&safe=off&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=UK%20gal%20in%20US%20gal&pbx=1&oq=&aq=&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&fp=218c0eb2464dee8a&ion=1&ion=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=218c0eb2464dee8a&biw=1099&bih=946&ion=1
[21:54] <MLow> hmm
[21:54] <Upu> and the engine mounts are advice when it was remapped it didn't take this into account and vibrated the enginer to hell under heavy acceleration
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[21:54] <jonsowman> Upu: yeah that's often an issue these days
[21:54] <jonsowman> same thing when people switch from DMFs to SMFs
[21:55] <jonsowman> no DMF to go wrong but the added vibrations wrecks the mounts
[21:55] <Upu> DMF ?
[21:55] <jonsowman> dual mass flywheel
[21:55] <Upu> oh yeah
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[21:55] <MLow> 25 = 30 MPG from US to UK
[21:55] <Upu> well Audi had the car for 9 months trying to fix it
[21:55] <jonsowman> 9 months!
[21:55] <jonsowman> blimey
[21:55] <jonsowman> what was wrong with it?
[21:55] <Upu> didn't charge me even though car was remapped
[21:55] <MLow> 55MPG UK = 45.8MPG US
[21:56] <Pavix> which is probably prius territory
[21:56] <Upu> they replaced rear drive shafts, front, prop shaft, torque convertor, DMF, clutch and gear box
[21:56] <Pavix> in fuel economy
[21:56] <MLow> thats like a hybrid here
[21:56] <MLow> prius has pretty low MPG for a hybrid
[21:56] <jonsowman> Upu: in an attempt to fix it? or did they all need replacing?
[21:56] <jonsowman> i can't think what someone could do to a car to make it need its entire drivetrain replaced
[21:57] <Upu> 4 liters = US gallon = £5.60 a gallon (su)
[21:57] <Upu> attempt to fix it jonsowman
[21:57] <jonsowman> ah i see
[21:57] <SpeedEvil> jonsowman: Driving it into the sea?
[21:57] <Upu> the cars only done 29k miles
[21:57] <jonsowman> SpeedEvil: apart from that ;)
[21:57] <jonsowman> Upu: so did they find out what was actually wrong?
[21:57] <MLow> The US gallon is 3.78541 litres and the UK gallon, also known as the imperial gallon is 4.54609 litres.
[21:57] <Upu> remapped thought they couldn't prove it
[21:57] <Upu> so they covered it all under warrantly
[21:57] <jonsowman> ah i see
[21:57] <Upu> left all the new parts on
[21:57] <daveake> My Pug is up to 211k
[21:58] <Upu> gave me £1000 compensation and an extra years warrantly
[21:58] <jonsowman> daveake: mine has literally just ticked over 211k last night too
[21:58] <Upu> and a courtisy car for 9 months
[21:58] <jonsowman> weird coincidence...
[21:58] <Upu> so win win really
[21:58] <daveake> :)
[21:58] <Richardf> evening all, i dont suppose anyone could answer a question about fl-digi, or rather offer some help and guidance?
[21:58] <jonsowman> daveake: are you another 406 man?
[21:58] <Upu> shoot Richardf
[21:58] <daveake> Yeah, 406 coupe V6
[21:58] <SpeedEvil> Upu: So you remapped it, caned it, broke everything in the transmission, and got it fixed under warranty?
[21:58] <Upu> $8.87 a gallon over here
[21:58] <SpeedEvil> Win.
[21:58] <Upu> SpeedEvil correct :)
[21:58] <gonzo_> my old RR was at 240k before I retired it
[21:58] <Upu> I didn't remap it
[21:58] <daveake> "Lucifer Red" I think
[21:59] <jonsowman> daveake: nice :) what year?
[21:59] <SpeedEvil> Ah.
[21:59] <daveake> 97
[21:59] <jonsowman> mine's a 98 saloon 2.1TD
[21:59] <jonsowman> i do like the coupes
[21:59] <Richardf> hi thanks. i'm trying to get my arduino transmitting to my receiver and then reading this in using fl-digi
[21:59] <daveake> Bought in 2004 for £4k-something
[21:59] <Upu> Richardf using NTX2 ?
[21:59] <jonsowman> they've aged very well
[21:59] <daveake> yep
[21:59] <Richardf> im following the "Linking an Arduino to a Radiometrix NTX2 Transmitter"
[21:59] <Richardf> yes, ntx2
[22:00] <Upu> oh that article, yes written by a true hero, horse of a man that article was
[22:00] <daveake> lol
[22:00] Action: jonsowman is suspicious
[22:00] <Upu> on the first part Richardf ?
[22:00] <jonsowman> daveake: i'll stop talking about cars now, but http://www.406oc.co.uk
[22:01] <jonsowman> also the coupe club if you're not already on there
[22:01] <Upu> such a good looking car that 406 Coupe
[22:01] <daveake> I am :)
[22:01] <Richardf> really has been useful, i've managed to get it transmitting and i'm "hearing" something, but fl-digi is only displaying random characters
[22:01] <Upu> ok did you get the first part working with 2 lines ?
[22:01] <Upu> just hi and lo
[22:02] <Upu> oh actually lets just fast forward
[22:02] <Upu> press RV in dl-fldigi
[22:02] <Upu> you got your wires the wrong way round
[22:02] <Richardf> no, i tried that, but seemed to get more than 2 lines
[22:02] <Upu> dang was trying to be smug
[22:02] <Upu> ok
[22:03] <daveake> :D
[22:03] <jonsowman> haha
[22:03] <Richardf> and i've tried changing the mark and other wire around + pressing the RV
[22:03] <Upu> ok
[22:03] <Richardf> it's probably something that you guys would consider 'basic' such as tuning, but this is all new to me!
[22:04] <Upu> take a screen show of what you see
[22:04] <Upu> http://imgur.com/
[22:04] <MLow> whats the efficiency gain of switching vs LDO reg?
[22:04] <Darkside> a lot
[22:04] <Darkside> depends on your input voltage of course
[22:05] <SpeedEvil> MLow: Input voltage - output voltage all times current
[22:05] <Darkside> and current requirements
[22:05] <SpeedEvil> Linear reg wastes all of that
[22:05] <MLow> Yeah
[22:05] <SpeedEvil> So 5-3V at 1A is 2V*1A=2W
[22:05] <SpeedEvil> A good switcher will waste a tenth
[22:05] <SpeedEvil> So .2W losses
[22:05] <MLow> I've made a switching boost step-up converter, 1A limit though
[22:05] <SpeedEvil> Or a saving of 1.8W, on a delivery of 3W
[22:05] <Darkside> jesus christ, 1A limit?
[22:06] <Darkside> MLow: what did you use?
[22:06] <Darkside> what switcheri mean
[22:06] <MLow> lt1308b
[22:06] <MLow> ive got like 10 from samples
[22:06] <Darkside> ahh only runs down to 2v
[22:06] <Darkside> damn
[22:07] <MLow> nah 1v
[22:07] <Richardf> http://imgur.com/kO7aR
[22:07] <MLow> maybe not at 1a
[22:07] <MLow> but yeah it's run batteries dry
[22:07] <Upu> you got the code set to 300 baud ?
[22:07] <Darkside> Richardf: you'renot tuned correctly
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[22:08] <Darkside> you havent got the selector in the right place
[22:08] <MLow> ac pass dc block capacitor in series
[22:08] <Richardf> yes, i think the code is set to 300 baud
[22:08] <Upu> ok 2 things
[22:08] <Darkside> MLow: so 5v output voltage?
[22:08] <Upu> 1 what Darkside said
[22:08] <MLow> yeah
[22:08] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[22:08] <MLow> then a 3v3 reg for my really low current sensors
[22:08] <Upu> pull the red bars over the 2 strong signals and click
[22:08] <Darkside> MLow: mm ok
[22:08] Topic changed on #highaltitude by jonsowman!jonsowman@kryten.hexoc.com: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk
[22:08] #highaltitude: mode change '-o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[22:08] <Upu> secondly you have the RTTY set to 50 baud
[22:08] <Upu> either adjust the code to 50
[22:08] <Darkside> interesting IC, might have a look at it :-)
[22:09] <Upu> or click op mode -> rtty -> custom and set the rate to 300
[22:09] <MLow> inductor can be big if your a cheapskate like me
[22:09] <MLow> they made SMT ones that are small though for like 2$
[22:09] <Upu> Richardf note bottom left it says RTTY 50.0/425
[22:09] <Upu> 50 = baud rate 425 = shift
[22:10] <Upu> shift looks a little wider than 425 but that may be the 300 baud
[22:11] <Darkside> MLow: i'm just lookign for something to replace the TPS61000s that i'm using om my power supply design at th emoment
[22:11] <Darkside> the TPS's are QFN chips
[22:12] <Darkside> ahh crap
[22:12] <Darkside> the LT chip is about 4 times more expensive than the TPS61000
[22:12] <Richardf> tried changing the baud to 300
[22:13] <zyp> that means you can destroy three for every four qfn chips you try soldering before it becomes more expensive!
[22:13] <Upu> ok and now ?
[22:13] <MLow> Darkside: yeah you pay for convenience
[22:14] <Darkside> zyp: i don't destroy them
[22:14] <Darkside> zyp: i use the right tools to solder them :-)
[22:14] <Darkside> head pad + hot air gun
[22:14] <Richardf> if i change the baud, should i change the shift?
[22:14] <zyp> Darkside, then no problem
[22:14] <Upu> no just switch the baud in the program (p.s start at 50 and work up) to 300 so it matches the code
[22:14] <Upu> then put those red bars over .. 1sec
[22:15] <Darkside> zyp: its also possible to solder QFNs with a normal soldering iron, and lots of flux
[22:15] <Richardf> ok, i'll give that a try
[22:15] <Upu> http://i.imgur.com/q6Gvc.jpg
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[22:16] <Darkside> that looks shopped
[22:16] <Upu> extra thick for extreme subtlety
[22:16] <Upu> lol
[22:16] <Darkside> i can tell from some of the pixels and seeing a few in my time
[22:16] <Upu> busted Darkside
[22:16] <Upu> that is my PS skills :)
[22:16] <Darkside> you could have done that in paint
[22:16] Action: daveake is impressed
[22:16] <zyp> Darkside, sorry, I tought you were talking about qfn as a disadvantage
[22:16] <daveake> crayon edition
[22:16] <Darkside> zyp: it is lol
[22:16] <Darkside> its still harder to solder than a SOIC
[22:17] <Darkside> but its not an show-stopper
[22:17] <Upu> I got my skillet today :)
[22:17] <Darkside> its just annoying
[22:17] <Darkside> Upu: oh dear
[22:17] <Darkside> please no
[22:17] <Darkside> get teh right tools
[22:17] <zyp> Darkside, well, it's smaller
[22:17] <Darkside> hot air blower and a hot air rework gun
[22:17] <Upu> I have one
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[22:18] <Upu> we have a rework station
[22:18] <zyp> I've done qfn in a proper reflow oven
[22:18] <Darkside> good :-)
[22:18] <Upu> I need to get a thermocouple though as its not great
[22:18] <Darkside> i asked the PCB tech to solder a QFN chip down to a pcb
[22:18] <Darkside> i expected him to get the hot air stuff
[22:18] <Darkside> instead he uses a wide tipped soldering iton
[22:18] <Darkside> iron*
[22:19] <Darkside> was amazing to watch
[22:19] <Richardf> you guys are fantastic:-)
[22:19] <Upu> working ?
[22:19] <Darkside> Richardf: no, we just know how things work
[22:19] <Richardf> yes, you've probably guessed its working
[22:19] <Upu> well done
[22:20] <Darkside> if you're going to launch a balloon, you need to learn how the receiving system works
[22:20] <Darkside> how to tell if you're off tune or not
[22:20] <Darkside> etc
[22:20] <Upu> you're in the UK Richardf ?
[22:20] <Richardf> changing the code, then putting the red marker over the lines and it's working perfectly
[22:20] <Upu> 50 baud ?
[22:20] <Richardf> impressed that you clicked on that from the screen grab
[22:20] <Richardf> yes, changed to 50 baud
[22:20] <Darkside> Richardf: we've been doing this for a while
[22:21] <Upu> http://h.images.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/14931959.jpg
[22:21] <Upu> Arduino can have some timing issues
[22:21] <Upu> 300 baud may not be what I put in the code
[22:21] <daveake> lol
[22:21] <Upu> I think I put a comment next to the 600 baud along the lines of "this probably won't work"
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[22:22] <Darkside> 600 baud you probably want interrupt based timing
[22:22] <Upu> if you're in the UK Richardf try listen in on some launches get a feel for it
[22:22] <Richardf> yes, there was a comment suggesting to remove it
[22:22] <Upu> payloads tend to drift as the temperature changes
[22:22] <Upu> ok dog walk bbs
[22:23] <Richardf> yes, im planning on listening in to some launches shortly. i've only got the snub antennae at the moment, so have to get a new one.
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[22:35] <Upu> you can actually pick stuff up with that
[22:35] <Upu> I still have QSL card from jcoxon where I managed 3 packets in an entire flight
[22:35] <Upu> Was well chuffed
[22:35] <jcoxon> hehe
[22:35] <jcoxon> i owe so many cards
[22:35] <Upu> pride of place in my workshop that :)
[22:36] <Upu> I'm going to do some its a nice idea
[22:36] <fsphil-laptop> I'd like to try that too. what sort of card is it?
[22:37] <jcoxon> its a qsl card
[22:37] <Upu> was just a postcard with a previous launch picture on it
[22:37] <jcoxon> just i did my own text
[22:37] <Upu> and call sign/ packets received /date time etc
[22:37] <daveake> hmmm...nice idea
[22:37] <Upu> HAMs love them
[22:37] <Upu> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QSL#QSL_cards_in_amateur_radio
[22:37] <Darkside> mm terry sent out some horus qsl cards from when we flew the repeater
[22:37] <Upu> someone owes Brian a few
[22:37] <Upu> Team Apex
[22:38] <daveake> jcoxon with your long flights you might need to stock up on postcards
[22:40] <jcoxon> hehe i've got a lot
[22:40] <jcoxon> my next flight i'll do them again
[22:42] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[22:44] <Pavix> Hmm, what happened on horus 13?
[22:45] <Darkside> heh
[22:45] <Darkside> it was a flight for an advertising company
[22:45] <Darkside> who never ended up using the footage
[22:45] <Pavix> ahh
[22:45] <Darkside> and we still haven't got a copy of the footage from them, hence no data on the page
[22:46] <cuddykid> ordered an ISP programmer :D
[22:46] <Darkside> cuddykid: good :-)
[22:46] <cuddykid> incl shipping for £11
[22:46] <Darkside> no more silly serial programming headers required
[22:46] <cuddykid> yeah
[22:47] <Upu> second that Darkside
[22:47] <Upu> just annoying ICSP connectors to route now
[22:47] <Darkside> pff
[22:47] <Darkside> keep it near the chip and you're fine
[22:47] <Darkside> the hardest line to route is the reset line
[22:47] <Upu> yeah
[22:47] <Darkside> whcih is usually on the other side of the chip
[22:47] <cuddykid> can't I just use the icsp connector on arduino uno?
[22:47] <cuddykid> pop the chip in then upload bootloader
[22:48] <Upu> if you come across any smaller viable board to wire sockets let me know even if they need a converter cable
[22:48] <Upu> cuddykid sure you can program Arduino boards using programmer
[22:48] <Darkside> cuddykid: dont so that
[22:48] <Darkside> dont do that* i mean
[22:48] <Darkside> you don't want to be plugging and unplugging chips
[22:48] <Randomskk> Upu: smaller than what?
[22:49] <cuddykid> also - Upu - where do I get 6 pin header for my pcb? or is it just a standard header?
[22:49] <Darkside> just route the ISP header onto your pcb and program using that
[22:49] <Upu> 6 pin header
[22:49] <Randomskk> there are a lot of six pin headers
[22:49] <Darkside> cuddykid: standard header, you can get strips of pin headers
[22:49] <Upu> the normal 2x6 one
[22:49] <Upu> err 2x3
[22:49] <Randomskk> you mean 0.2" 2x3?
[22:49] <Upu> yes
[22:49] <Randomskk> 0.1"*
[22:49] <Randomskk> there are loads
[22:49] <Darkside> i just get big strips of them
[22:49] <cuddykid> ah, brilliant :D
[22:49] <Randomskk> like the 2mm and 1.25mm smd things
[22:49] <cuddykid> thanks
[22:49] <Darkside> and cut up as required
[22:49] <Randomskk> they're tiny and awkard though
[22:50] <Upu> Having routed that board I did yesterday I have a new found respect for your routing skills Darkside & Randomskk
[22:50] <cuddykid> Upu: any idea when you'll have 0805 resistors in your shop?
[22:51] <Darkside> pff
[22:51] <Darkside> cuddykid: farnell
[22:51] <Upu> I probably won't
[22:51] <Randomskk> seriously, farnell
[22:51] <Upu> Farnell
[22:51] <Upu> I only use 0603
[22:51] <Darkside> ELEMENT14
[22:51] <Randomskk> also yea, I wish I had any respect for my routing skills, I have to lay this out today or tomorrow or soemthing https://randomskk.net/u/wombat.pdf
[22:51] <Randomskk> and it's all 0402 =D
[22:51] <fsphil-laptop> I can sell you some 0603s :)
[22:51] <Darkside> Randomskk: oh poor you
[22:51] <Randomskk> Darkside: haha
[22:51] <Randomskk> I don't want to hear it, what are you routing now
[22:51] <Upu> I misordered some 0201 inductors
[22:52] <Randomskk> did you lose them? :P
[22:52] <Darkside> Randomskk: oooooooh an ADF7012!
[22:52] <Upu> no I keep them just show people
[22:52] <Darkside> niiiice
[22:52] <Upu> that looks nice
[22:52] <Upu> but complex
[22:52] <Upu> they are those hard to find ones for the ADF7012
[22:52] <Upu> btw do you want these ADF7012's Randomskk ?
[22:52] <Randomskk> Darkside: same config as my trial board for it https://randomskk.net/u/ADF7012.pdf
[22:52] <Darkside> Upu: lol 3.3pf
[22:52] <Darkside> Randomskk:
[22:52] <Darkside> you know the capacitance across a 0805 pad is about 0.8pF
[22:52] <Randomskk> yea there are like a hundred bloody values of capacitor there
[22:52] <Randomskk> some so small that seriously
[22:53] <Randomskk> exactly
[22:53] <Randomskk> these are all 0402 though >_>
[22:53] <Darkside> microstriiiip
[22:53] <Darkside> do it all using stripline capacitors
[22:53] <Randomskk> takes more board space
[22:53] <Pavix> wow, just watched the video for 12, that was amazing footage
[22:53] <Darkside> heh
[22:53] <Randomskk> and more prone to manufacturing issues
[22:53] <Darkside> Randomskk: so did you get the ADF7012 doing rtty?
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[22:54] <Randomskk> yea
[22:54] <Randomskk> a while back
[22:55] <Laurenceb_> Randomskk: have you installed eagle6 on linux?
[22:55] <Randomskk> no
[22:55] <Laurenceb_> or do you only use kicad :P
[22:55] <Randomskk> atm kicad
[22:55] <Randomskk> probably will be using eagle 6 some time soon ish as we're getting another license for it
[22:56] <Randomskk> and want to try geda too
[22:56] <Darkside> i went to a kicad tutorial at linuxconf
[22:56] <Darkside> i got sick of the GUI after about 5 minutes
[22:56] <Randomskk> what about it?
[22:56] <Laurenceb_> Darkside: me too
[22:56] <Darkside> well, it didn't work on mac very well
[22:56] <Laurenceb_> its just...
[22:56] <Randomskk> it's kinda really neat. it can do a lot of things that eagle can't or makes awkward
[22:56] <Laurenceb_> annoying
[22:56] <Randomskk> but yea, the gui is a bit.. meh I guess
[22:56] <Laurenceb_> maybe so
[22:56] <Laurenceb_> the gui just annoys me
[22:56] <Laurenceb_> im sure it can work
[22:56] <Darkside> my problem is i've been using really really good commercial tools
[22:57] <Laurenceb_> but its just the annoying side of usable for me
[22:57] <Laurenceb_> so i get progressively more annoyed as i use it
[22:57] <Laurenceb_> until i rageeee
[22:57] <Upu> Eagle ?
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[22:57] <Upu> Evening Dan-K2VOL
[22:59] <Laurenceb_> KiCad
[23:00] <Upu> must be a common theme amongst CAD packages
[23:01] <Dan-K2VOL1> hey all
[23:01] <Upu> cheers for the mail Dan, we probably won't have it ready but maybe next year
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[23:09] <Upu> right bed time, night all
[23:09] <Dan-K2VOL1> night upu!
[23:09] <fsphil-laptop> nite!
[23:11] <Laurenceb_> http://www.raspberrypi.org/
[23:11] <Laurenceb_> lmao
[23:11] <Laurenceb_> is that a pandaboard i spy
[23:15] <zyp> one? a whole cluster!
[23:17] <Richardf> is it a voltage divider that i need to put between the ublox neo and the arduino to reduce the voltage?
[23:17] <Darkside> from the arduino to the ublox, yes
[23:17] <Darkside> the other way, no
[23:19] <Richardf> ah thanks. just looking at getting the gps to send data to the arduino next. have to solder it onto the breakout board first, then its all go
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[23:23] <Lunar_Lander> hi Laurenceb_, zyp Darkside Dan-K2VOL1, fsphil-laptop and Richardf
[23:23] <fsphil-laptop> evenin LL
[23:24] <Lunar_Lander> just will have something to eat and then to bed
[23:24] <Lunar_Lander> but wanted to ask Richardf: are you new? UK, USA, AUS, other country?
[23:25] <Richardf> hi lunar_lander. i'm based in the uk, near cambridge
[23:26] <jonsowman> Richardf: you'll have to come and use the CUSF launch site when you're ready :)
[23:26] <fsphil-laptop> that's practically HAB central :)
[23:26] <Darkside> hah
[23:27] <Richardf> hey jonsowman, i have to confess, that was in my plans to get in touch
[23:27] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[23:27] <jonsowman> Richardf: no problem, please do give me a shout
[23:27] <Richardf> thank you
[23:27] <jonsowman> i'm always on here, or email the contact address on our website
[23:27] <jonsowman> :)
[23:28] <Lunar_Lander> Richardf: also working on Arduino Mega 2560 to turn it into a payload :)
[23:28] <Richardf> wouldnt say no to coming along sometime to watch/help with a launch
[23:28] <jonsowman> Richardf: we almost always email our launches out on the UKHAS list
[23:28] <Richardf> im finding the arduinos so easy to program and work with
[23:28] <jonsowman> so if we're doing one on a date/time that suits you, just give me a shout on here and ask to come along
[23:29] <MLow> why does bf3 load soooo slloooow
[23:29] <Lunar_Lander> yeah Richardf
[23:29] <jonsowman> unless there's a particular reason you're welcome to come and watch
[23:29] <Lunar_Lander> because of Origin
[23:29] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[23:29] <Richardf> thanks jonsowman, will keep an eye out
[23:29] <Lunar_Lander> Richardf: my classical question is
[23:29] <Lunar_Lander> what will your balloon be able to do?
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[23:31] <Richardf> first flight, recovering it, ideally with photos will make me the happiest guy alive
[23:31] <Richardf> once i've got some confidence, want to start looking at some other things. but just concentrating on walking at the moment
[23:31] <MLow> anyone does launches soon, i want to come along and chase
[23:32] <Lunar_Lander> sounds good and reasonable Richardf
[23:32] <Lunar_Lander> nice to have you onboard
[23:34] <Richardf> thanks, hoping that i'm not always going to be the one asking questions, but so far it's always me!
[23:34] <Laurenceb_> https://code.launchpad.net/~verterok/ubuntu/lucid/openssl/1.0.0-backport
[23:35] <Laurenceb_> is it possible to install one of thos ebackports?
[23:35] <Richardf> where is everyone else based then?
[23:36] <jonsowman> Richardf: cambridge :)
[23:36] <Laurenceb_> Derby
[23:36] Action: Laurenceb_ zzz
[23:37] <Lunar_Lander> Richardf: Osnabruck, Germany
[23:39] <Richardf> do you have similar restrictions for launches + radio over in germany?
[23:39] <Lunar_Lander> you have to call up DFS about eight days in advance of a launch
[23:39] <Lunar_Lander> but it is allowed to use HAM radio airbourne
[23:40] <Lunar_Lander> DFS is the flight control
[23:40] <Lunar_Lander> they'll do a NOTAM
[23:40] <Richardf> can do it over the phone? sounds pretty laid back
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[23:41] <Lunar_Lander> afaik phoning works
[23:41] <Lunar_Lander> well year
[23:41] <Lunar_Lander> sorry
[23:41] <Lunar_Lander> I phoned them so I know of that
[23:41] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[23:42] <Richardf> :-)
[23:42] <Richardf> right, time to hit the sack myself
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[23:43] <Richardf> thanks for your help tonight, will keep you posted on how connecting the gps goes
[23:43] <fsphil-laptop> night Richardf
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[23:44] <Lunar_Lander> night Richardf
[23:44] <Richardf> night all
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[23:48] <Lunar_Lander> OK good night everyone!
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[00:00] --- Tue Feb 21 2012