highaltitude.log.20120219

[00:00] <MLow-werk> im so happy my blog works
[00:01] <MLow-werk> 2$ domain too lol
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[00:06] <MLow-werk> need a long ass wrench to get the spark plug out or tighten it
[00:09] <MLow-werk> its INSIDE the head
[00:09] <MLow-werk> like a good 5 inches or so
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[00:10] <Lunar_Lander> MLow-werk: wordpress?
[00:10] <Lunar_Lander> how do they charge?
[00:11] <Lunar_Lander> or is it only possible for people from the USA to register a domain?
[00:14] <gonzo_> most spark plug wrenches are long box spanners that slide over the length of the plug
[00:14] <gonzo_> is there one in the car tool kit?
[00:23] <MLow-werk> Lunar_Lander: movable type
[00:24] <Lunar_Lander> hm?
[00:24] <MLow-werk> kf5kwe.com
[00:25] <MLow-werk> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movable_Type
[00:25] <Lunar_Lander> ahhh
[00:32] <Lunar_Lander> "Cerebrations of a Crackpot"?
[00:33] <MLow-werk> its a vanacular excersize isn't it
[00:33] <Lunar_Lander> yae
[00:33] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[00:33] <MLow-werk> its what the japs do for new years
[00:33] <MLow-werk> cerebrations
[00:34] <MLow-werk> :P
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[00:35] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[00:41] <Pavix> mmm wordpress
[00:42] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[00:43] <MLow-werk> eww wordpress
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[00:44] <Pavix> everyones a critic :P
[00:46] <MLow-werk> I want to do a script to pick a synonym of "rantings" and replace the first word of my blog
[00:47] <Pavix> I found a guy locally that has a pretty simple nozzle/fill mechanism.... http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/37/20111113162449.jpg/
[00:51] <MLow-werk> garden hose?
[00:51] <Pavix> I think he said it's an o2 hose
[00:52] <Pavix> Our regulator is one guy with his hand on the tank valae controlling the flow. From the tank I just got a 25' airhose from Harbor Freight. On that is a quick connect that attaches to a 1/2" plug that screws in to the Fill 'n Fly nozzle. After the balloon is filled you simply replace the 1/2" plug with a solid one. There is also an a loop of line tied to the Fill 'n Fly that's a good handhold and good for tying your payload package.
[00:52] <Pavix> I guess he calls his kit the "fill n fly" which looks to be pretty ingenious
[00:57] <Lunar_Lander> OK people
[00:57] <Lunar_Lander> good night :)
[00:57] <Pavix> Have a good one
[00:57] <Lunar_Lander> thanks, you too
[00:57] <Lunar_Lander> cu
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[00:59] <MLow-werk> i am always too slow to say night
[01:00] <fsphil-laptop> night :)
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[01:12] <MLow-werk> argg
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[01:16] <Anasule> Hi, is there such thing as a baloon club? if so is there any in birmingham,uk?
[01:17] <Pavix> Howdy
[01:17] <MLow-werk> Not that I know of but what do I know I live in Texas
[01:17] <Randomskk> now's not really the best time to ask about UK clubs :P
[01:17] <Randomskk> but I don't think there are any per se...
[01:18] <Randomskk> there aren't really any in the country, just a few projects at schools and universities, plus plenty of private individuals who sometimes also work together
[01:18] <Anasule> @Randomskk is there like a meetup site to get in touch with them?
[01:20] <Pavix> Anasule: you can check here http://arhab.org under members
[01:20] <Pavix> You might find a group near where you're at. It helped me
[01:21] <Randomskk> Anasule: not really. come on here in UK evenings perhaps
[01:21] <Randomskk> that said, do check http://ukhas.org for the wiki and general stuff
[01:21] <Randomskk> most people aren't in clubs
[01:22] <Anasule> Good proint its 1:21am here and probaly not the best time to be asking about UK :o)
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[01:24] <Anasule> So anyone got pictures of there setups i can look at preferably simple ones
[01:25] <Anasule> Dont worry i have no plans on upping a baloon before looking into it more im just wondering how things like detaching from the baloon work
[01:26] <Anasule> In my mind when the baloon pops its going to fall on the parachoot and pull it to one side and im also interested in how well the parachoot works that high up with wind and stuff
[01:26] <Randomskk> check the wiki I linked to just up a little
[01:26] <Randomskk> it has a range of guides, info and pictures
[01:27] <Randomskk> to answer your specific questions, most people do not actively detach from the balloon (thoug it has been done successfully via a range of methods)
[01:27] <Randomskk> typically you just use long enough lines that the balloon can safely fall out of the way of the parachute
[01:27] <Randomskk> as far as parachute effectiveness, they don't work very well at all at high altitudes, but when your payload gets to lower altitudes they work properly and that's okay.
[01:31] <Anasule> Thanks looking now
[01:34] <MLow-werk> for me im not going to attatch the balloon to the top of the chute
[01:34] <MLow-werk> going to do a ring to hold the chute open though
[01:35] <Randomskk> also you'll find everyone has their own ways of doing various things and most of them generally work
[01:35] <MLow-werk> ill do an awesome picture of my idea later
[01:36] <MLow-werk> photoshop doesnt run very well on this lappy
[01:37] <Anasule> How much would a cheap baloon cost and what would a cheap baloon consit of im thinking some GPS tracker with a simcard for location a camera of some sort a parachoot and a baloon
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[01:38] <Randomskk> meh, depends. once you include helium, petrol for chasing the thing in your car, the balloon, the camera, the electronics... I think about £500 is a reasonable budget
[01:38] <Randomskk> it can certainly be done for less, and sometimes it costs a lot more.
[01:39] <Anasule> Weight seems to be the bigest issue
[01:40] <MLow-werk> scientific sales has cheap balloons that ive heard good things about
[01:40] <MLow-werk> uh, iDen phone for tracking is like a 50$ tracker
[01:40] <Anasule> Im looking at a 3ft baloon thats 113g lift a gps tracker is 50g on its own
[01:40] <Randomskk> in the UK, http://randomengineering.co.uk/Random_Aerospace/Balloons.html is the place to get balloons
[01:41] <MLow-werk> Anasule: where you located?
[01:41] <Anasule> UK, Birmingham
[01:41] <MLow-werk> no idea then
[01:41] <MLow-werk> i know you cant do ham radio stuff in the air which is no fun
[01:41] <MLow-werk> i plan on doing some fun stuff with subsequent launches if the first proves to be successfull
[01:42] <Randomskk> note most of us do use our own radio transmitters operating in the license-exempt bands
[01:42] <Randomskk> rather than GSM which is.. often unreliable as a sole locator
[01:44] <MLow-werk> GSM network in texas...
[01:44] <MLow-werk> yeah ham radio network is better :P
[01:45] <Anasule> UK coverage is not so bad but then if it decides to land in the water lol not so much
[01:53] <Anasule> Night all
[01:53] <Randomskk> seeya
[01:53] <Pavix> Night
[01:54] <Pavix> I think you might be able to do it a little less, but that's a reasonable number for price. A breakdown of what i've spent so far includes $100 for the balloon, $40 for the chute, $100 for a cell phone to track it when it lands, $20 for a Lassen IQ GPS module, $25 for the OpenLog logger from sparkfun, $30 for the Arduino Uno R3 from sparkfun, the logger shield from adafruit I think was about $20, the BMP085 for $20, $50 for a A560 for sti
[01:55] <Pavix> I think it's only when you start talking aprs stuff that the number jumps
[01:55] <Pavix> live tracking vs just logging
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[02:03] <kristianpaul> Hello
[02:04] <Pavix> Hi
[02:05] <kristianpaul> What's the max altitude a balloon witna nylon (1.0mm Braided Nylon Cord ?) can achieve?
[02:05] <kristianpaul> payload will not be more than 800gb
[02:05] <kristianpaul> s/gb/g
[02:05] <kristianpaul> Or i'm open to ideas about taking pics from a balloon are return it safelly and controlled to home :-)
[02:06] <Pavix> what size balloon?
[02:09] <Pavix> I think my payload is going to be between 4-6 lbs conservatively, and I'm using a 1200 g balloon and should have no problem hitting the 100k mark in altitude before the balloon bursts
[02:10] <kristianpaul> 150cm in diameter Pavix
[02:10] <kristianpaul> ergh 185, sorry
[02:11] <Pavix> Hmm, I believe those are the 600 g balloons
[02:12] <Pavix> If memory serves me correctly, those hit about 50,000 feet roughly
[02:12] <Pavix> But i may be wrong
[02:12] <kristianpaul> What about when attaching nylon cord to it? :)
[02:13] <Pavix> What do you mean?
[02:14] <kristianpaul> I need take some pics using the camera as a payload
[02:14] <Pavix> Right
[02:14] <kristianpaul> there is no obstacules on the road, so i can attach attach a nylon to payload and drive from the car
[02:14] <kristianpaul> but
[02:15] <Pavix> Do you have 50,000 feet of nylon?
[02:15] <kristianpaul> no way
[02:16] <kristianpaul> but perhaps 500m at least :)
[02:17] <Pavix> That should get you some nice shots
[02:17] <kristianpaul> Yeah thats what i want, just asking here for advices before try :)
[02:17] <Pavix> I did the math, one site was selling 1/4 double braided rope for .45 a foot, at $22,000 USD you'll be able to come up with a much more cost effective solution :P
[02:18] <kristianpaul> lol
[02:20] <Pavix> At about 500m of rope you should be able to recover the balloon without it bursting. As long as you got some quality rope the burst strength shouldn't be an issue
[02:22] <kristianpaul> about uality rope, any suguestions?
[02:23] <Pavix> Most should give you it's burst strength. I did a quick google search and clicked on the first link I found and saw this http://www.knotandrope.com/Store/pc/viewCategories.asp?idcategory=23&idproduct=&atc=1
[02:23] <Pavix> the top one, 1/4 is at 1,100 lbs burst strength
[02:24] <Pavix> I doubt you'll see that kind of resistance from a balloon even in high winds
[02:25] <Pavix> You could do double braid, http://www.knotandrope.com/Store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=662&idcategory=22 which has 3,700 lbs tensile strength, so if you were using it to tie up a pissed off bull on steroids
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[02:36] <kristianpaul> Thanks
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[06:18] <griffonbot> @LVL1WhiteStar: Lots done today! Ballast certified clean, mission control screens up, ground support software + arduino set #UKHAS http://t.co/ggxioelV [http://twitter.com/LVL1WhiteStar/status/171116294228279296]
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[07:50] <heathkid> anyone here in Indiana?
[07:51] <MLow-werk> not me
[07:51] <MLow-werk> just got done figuring out how hard it is to plug a tire
[07:51] <heathkid> it's not hard to plug it... just hard to do it right! :P
[07:52] <MLow-werk> it was like all 130lb of me
[07:52] <MLow-werk> trying to push that rubber into the hole
[07:53] <heathkid> was the tire deflated when you did it?
[07:53] <MLow-werk> yeah :(
[07:53] <heathkid> wow
[07:53] <MLow-werk> big hole
[07:54] <heathkid> then should have patched from inside
[07:54] <MLow-werk> eh
[07:54] <MLow-werk> i need the car working tmor, and i don't have the stuff to take the wheel off the tire
[07:54] <heathkid> don't get me started on boat trailers and tires!
[07:55] <heathkid> every year!!!!
[07:55] <heathkid> I think the rims are shrinking
[07:55] <MLow-werk> lol
[07:55] <MLow-werk> rubber expands...
[07:55] <heathkid> steel doesn't
[07:56] <MLow-werk> well
[07:56] <heathkid> well, not usually
[07:56] <MLow-werk> everything is relative
[07:56] <heathkid> well, my tires aren't relative to the wheels they are mounted to...
[07:56] <MLow-werk> sure they are
[07:57] <heathkid> tell that to them!
[07:58] <heathkid> where can I find a FAQ or a "here's how you do it" for high altutude balloon launch???
[07:58] <MLow-werk> im told there is a wiki
[07:59] <MLow-werk> i like to discover things the hard way
[07:59] <heathkid> rules, regulations, sources for parts...
[07:59] <MLow-werk> eh, rules
[07:59] <MLow-werk> america?
[07:59] <MLow-werk> orr?
[07:59] <heathkid> yep
[07:59] <MLow-werk> bascially less than 4lb
[07:59] <MLow-werk> foam
[07:59] <MLow-werk> and 50lb break line some point in your string
[07:59] <MLow-werk> and it's "unregulated"
[08:00] <MLow-werk> meaning no need for NOTAM, though it is expected
[08:00] <MLow-werk> also if you launch near an airport thats fail
[08:00] <heathkid> I can notify the FAA
[08:00] <heathkid> and local airport
[08:00] <heathkid> talked to them today as a matter of fact
[08:00] <MLow-werk> no launches within 5mi of an airport
[08:01] <heathkid> had some idiot flying less than 50 ft. above our lake (between houses in a residential area)
[08:01] <MLow-werk> otherwise you don't need to call anyone
[08:01] <heathkid> more like 20 ft.... he was leaving a wake
[08:01] <MLow-werk> its not those you need to worry about
[08:02] <MLow-werk> it's the air liner 30k up
[08:02] <MLow-werk> they will report something like a balloon hitting them
[08:02] <heathkid> so THAT's why I got in trouble when I was a kit launching a weather balloon FROM an airport... ;)
[08:02] <MLow-werk> the jackass violating rules probably wont tell anyone he hit a balloon
[08:02] <heathkid> did, not kit
[08:02] <heathkid> kid not did
[08:02] <heathkid> I give up
[08:02] <MLow-werk> :)
[08:03] <MLow-werk> PEBAK
[08:03] <heathkid> yep
[08:03] <MLow-werk> PEBKAC actually
[08:03] <MLow-werk> fml
[08:03] <costyn> fortunately there are no airliners at 30KM (or did you mean feet?), highest you'll find them is at 12KM
[08:03] <MLow-werk> hey interesting fact, kia compact spares look like a mini-donut
[08:03] <heathkid> seriously, my wife thought a plane was crashing in our lake...
[08:03] <heathkid> but he made three more passes
[08:04] <MLow-werk> at least hes consistant at not crashing
[08:04] <MLow-werk> and on the plus side, thats a good lawsuit should he hit something
[08:04] <heathkid> below tree level and below many houses...
[08:04] <MLow-werk> put up some towers at strategic points
[08:04] <MLow-werk> lots of guy wires
[08:05] <heathkid> yeah... if he screwed up and ditched it... fishing would be screwed next summer
[08:05] <MLow-werk> watch him perform acrobatics
[08:05] <MLow-werk> good youtube material there
[08:05] Nick change: MLow-werk -> Mlow
[08:05] Nick change: Mlow -> MLow
[08:05] <heathkid> tried... cell phone was dead
[08:05] <MLow> how long does rubber cement take to dry?
[08:05] <heathkid> by the time I got a real cam... he saw me and didn't come back
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[08:06] <heathkid> define "dry"... it's rubber
[08:06] <MLow> right
[08:06] <MLow> well, all instructions say "just a minute"
[08:06] <heathkid> 5-30 minutes...
[08:06] <MLow> which is not very good instructions
[08:06] <jcoxon> morning all
[08:07] <heathkid> morning jcoxon
[08:07] <MLow> not cure, just dry enough to test the tire out
[08:07] <heathkid> although it's 3:07 am here
[08:07] <MLow> aka go to mcdonalds
[08:07] <heathkid> a tire? I'd give it at least 15 minutes
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[08:07] <MLow> yeah it's been that at least by now
[08:08] <MLow> im going to also fill it with the coat stuff for the inside
[08:08] <MLow> fix a flat type stuff
[08:08] <heathkid> YUCK!
[08:08] <heathkid> don't do that
[08:08] <MLow> i dont have a compressor so it's mostly just for the pressure
[08:08] <MLow> so i can test it with soapwater for leaks
[08:08] <heathkid> buy a compressor
[08:09] <costyn> jcoxon: an arduino board like the seeedstudio stalker should just work on 4 AA's right? If I feed it 5v from USB it works fine, but 4 AA's (at 5.5v) it doesn't work, led's burn very dim and it doesn't start running it's code. any ideas?
[08:09] <heathkid> $20 at walmart
[08:09] <MLow> on the list, however so is a balloon project
[08:09] <MLow> i need jack and stands as well
[08:09] <MLow> scissor jack is lame
[08:10] <heathkid> I use a 20k lb. bottle jack I got at an auction for $5
[08:10] <MLow> they have 4ton jack and stands for 44$
[08:10] <jcoxon> costyn, what sort of AAs?
[08:10] <heathkid> and jack stands
[08:10] <MLow> bottle jack better?
[08:10] <heathkid> I need a balloon
[08:10] <heathkid> MLow: no
[08:11] <MLow> they have hydralic
[08:11] <jcoxon> and which version of the seeeedstudio stalker?
[08:11] <heathkid> unless you like lifting your car onto it
[08:11] <MLow> yeah i figured
[08:11] <MLow> clearance and all
[08:11] <heathkid> yep
[08:11] <heathkid> but most cars aren't that heavy
[08:12] <MLow> mines about a ton
[08:12] <MLow> 2400lb
[08:12] <MLow> :P
[08:12] <MLow> compact
[08:12] <heathkid> ok, might take two people to get the car up and onto a bottle jack
[08:12] <MLow> i can literally tilt the car by hand
[08:12] <heathkid> yep
[08:12] <heathkid> been there... done that...
[08:12] <MLow> and im 130lb myself
[08:13] <MLow> anyways, im off to try and get this thing over to mc d's for food and walmart for the jacks
[08:13] <heathkid> good luck...
[08:13] <MLow> walmart sell oil and oil filters? may as well change that shit too :P
[08:13] <heathkid> you know...
[08:13] <heathkid> walmart for a jack and a 12v compressor might be the first stop???
[08:14] <heathkid> then McD's?
[08:14] <MLow> on a donut now, makes me nervous how small the thing is
[08:14] <jcoxon> priorities :-D
[08:14] <MLow> quarter mile to mc d's, 4mi to wally mart
[08:14] <MLow> :S
[08:14] <heathkid> yes jcoxon, priorities... I need a balloon
[08:14] <costyn> jcoxon:4 new NiMH rechargeables; don't have fresh AAs here unfortunately
[08:14] <MLow> 2 am, worked a double and havent eaten
[08:15] <costyn> jcoxon: and it's the v328
[08:15] <MLow> jcoxon: you hear about the deal i got for energizer lithiums?
[08:15] <jcoxon> heathkid, what sort of flight do you want? some a suited to others
[08:15] <jcoxon> MLow, no?
[08:16] <heathkid> jcoxon: as high as I can go... and then launch a rocket from a platform for a LEO
[08:16] <heathkid> sounds easy enough
[08:16] <jcoxon> heathkid, simple
[08:16] <jcoxon> :-)
[08:16] <MLow> 35$ shipped, 50 AA size energizer ultimate lithium
[08:16] <jcoxon> i'd go with a howyee balloon
[08:16] <heathkid> got a link?
[08:16] <MLow> ebay baby
[08:16] <jcoxon> in the states scientific sales stock htem
[08:16] <heathkid> ah
[08:16] <jcoxon> MLow, thats amazing
[08:17] <heathkid> 0 items found
[08:17] <costyn> that is a good deal on those batteries :)
[08:18] <heathkid> I want to launch a 1kg payload into LEO from a balloon platform
[08:18] <MLow> 70 cents ea
[08:18] <MLow> lol
[08:20] <Darkside> heathkid: lots of permissions required to get anything into LEO
[08:20] <jcoxon> heathkid, ummmm i think the physics is against you
[08:20] <Darkside> and yeah
[08:20] <Darkside> you're gonna need a big rocker
[08:20] <jcoxon> you could launch and get into space but not orbit
[08:20] <MLow> thinking i pick up a jack, stands, 5w-20, filter, and some mcD's
[08:21] <costyn> cuddykid also wants to do the same; launch a rocket from a balloon platform; sounds fiendishly complicated if you ask me
[08:21] <heathkid> it only has to go around one time to prove the point
[08:22] <MLow> how do I find a filter that will fit at walmart, im used to autozone hmmm
[08:23] <heathkid> Darkside: got a link to the form to fill out for a commercial LEO bot?
[08:24] <heathkid> do I just file a LEO launch with the FAA (standard form that I can download?)
[08:24] <heathkid> :P
[08:24] <heathkid> why so complicated?
[08:25] <Darkside> pff
[08:25] <Darkside> i'm pretty sure theres more to it than that
[08:25] <Darkside> i think there needs to be reasonable proof your launch platform will put it into the correct orbit
[08:25] <heathkid> better to ask for forgiveness than permission sort of thing????
[08:25] <costyn> heathkid: they don't want you hitting the ISS and other stuff hanging around :)
[08:26] <heathkid> like I'm really going to get up to that altitude
[08:26] <heathkid> if *I* could... they should be up higher
[08:26] <costyn> well it's just an example, but you are talking about LEO
[08:26] <heathkid> okay... ELEO
[08:27] <heathkid> I just made that up
[08:27] <heathkid> extremely low earth orbit
[08:27] <heathkid> but still an orbit
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[08:28] Nick change: daveake_ -> daveake
[08:28] <heathkid> bah... probably easier to wait on the waiting list for "ballast"....
[08:28] <costyn> how much extra altitude do you think your rocket will achieve once it launches from the platform (at say 25KM)
[08:29] <Upu> morning
[08:29] <heathkid> costyn: depends... hadn't gotten that far yet
[08:29] <daveake> mooning
[08:29] <heathkid> I don't even have a balloon yet
[08:30] <costyn> daveake: moaning
[08:31] <heathkid> and sounds like I'd need a pretty big balloon
[08:31] <heathkid> or several tethered
[08:31] <costyn> daveake: my seeedstudio stalker v328 won't run on 4AAs... is that expected? I thought I hsould be able to feed it 5.5v (what my multimeter is reading) and have it run
[08:32] <heathkid> g'nite
[08:32] <jcoxon> costyn, it should work
[08:32] <daveake> Depends on the reg, but many have a 2V drop-out, so you need 5V + 2V which, even at this time in the morning, is 7V.
[08:32] <jcoxon> http://www.seeedstudio.com/wiki/index.php?title=Seeeduino_Stalker
[08:32] <daveake> Some regs only need 0.3V
[08:33] <costyn> hmmm
[08:33] <costyn> jcoxon: yea it lists 5v and 7 - 12v input
[08:34] <costyn> not sure what it means, i've been somewhat dissapointed on the lack of documentation of this board
[08:34] <costyn> I might try adding some extra AA's and seeing if it runs on higher voltages.
[08:34] <daveake> Can you read the number on the regulator?
[08:34] <costyn> not sure which bit is the regulator to be honest :)
[08:34] <daveake> Or they should havea circuit diagram stating it
[08:35] <costyn> yea they should, but they don't
[08:38] <costyn> looks like the volt reg is the LM1117
[08:40] <daveake> They do have a circuit diagram, and the ATMega's running from 3V3, so 5V ought to be enough.
[08:40] <x-f> costyn, which Stalker version you have?
[08:40] <jcoxon> it has a drop out of about 1.2
[08:40] <jcoxon> so add another AA
[08:41] <costyn> where did you find the circuit diagram?
[08:41] <jcoxon> costyn, though remember that lithiums output 1.7v per cell
[08:41] <jcoxon> so you'll neeed less
[08:41] <costyn> x-f: v328
[08:41] <daveake> V2 - http://www.seeedstudio.com/wiki/images/c/ca/Stalker_v2.0_Schematics.png
[08:41] <costyn> jcoxon: ah ok
[08:41] <daveake> V2.1 - http://www.seeedstudio.com/wiki/images/d/da/Seeeduino_Stalker_v2.1_Schematic.png
[08:41] <x-f> costyn, 1.0, 2.0 or 2.1? from that page jcoxon linked?
[08:41] <costyn> daveake: ah yes, the v2, not sure how manyu similarities there are between the v328 and the v2
[08:42] <costyn> x-f: v1 with atmega 328
[08:42] <costyn> just my luck it's the one that's the least well documented
[08:42] <costyn> ;0
[08:42] <costyn> :)
[08:43] <costyn> but anyways, I think Ill run it in tests with an extra AA and the lithium AAs should provide enough oomph during flight
[08:44] <costyn> power is one of the last hurdles, after that I've only got to make the payload box and the antenna and I'll be done
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[08:46] <daveake> If you have a PSU and a DMM, when you get it working check to see what min Vin it will actually run from. Lithium Energizers start at 1.8V (briefly) when fresh but then drop to 1.5V fquite quickly, and are nearly flat at 1,4V. That's at room temperature - it's lower when cold. See http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/l91.pdf
[08:48] <costyn> ok will do that thx
[08:48] <costyn> might fly with 5 AAs just to be sure
[08:49] <daveake> LM117 drop-out is about 1.2V
[08:50] <daveake> So if that is generating 5V then you need 6.2V minimum
[08:52] <costyn> ok
[08:53] <costyn> and if its fed through usb it taks that as regulated power that does not go through the lm1117 right?
[08:53] <daveake> Dunno without seeing the circuit but that sounds reasonable
[08:54] <daveake> Or indeed very likely :)
[08:54] <eroomde> if you're struggling with a linear regulator, this might be able to help you out http://uk.farnell.com/texas-instruments/pth08080wah/power-module-mini-18v-wide-adj/dp/1470502?Ntt=PTH08080WAH
[08:54] <eroomde> it's a self containained switch-mode power supply
[08:54] <eroomde> 4.5-18V in, 0.9-5.5V out
[08:55] <costyn> nice, but the onbaord reg should work, so I'm gonna try to get that working first
[09:03] <Hiena> Hindsight: When you works with oversized step up converter, the "vvvviiiiiiIIIIIII" sound means runaway feedback and step away from the charge banks.
[09:03] <Hiena> Also, it's a good test to show, which is the faulty capacitor in the bank.
[09:13] <eroomde> sunday morning 'cello: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzndvydB-ws
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[09:18] <costyn> daveake: well more volts does the trick. with 5 AAs I get ±6.6v and it runs ok
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[09:20] <daveake> costyn good :)
[09:20] <daveake> What type of AA?
[09:21] <costyn> now to see if I have a 5 or 6 AA holder somehwere; at the moment i'm using 2000mAh NiMH rechargeables, but have the lithiums on hand for the final freezer test and will get some new ones for the flight
[09:21] <daveake> Ah ... those are only about 1.2V
[09:22] <daveake> Don't recall seeing a 5x or 6x holder, but you could use a 3 + 2 for example
[09:22] <costyn> yes
[09:23] <daveake> For my first flight I used a PP3 :)
[09:23] <daveake> and a separate supply for the GPS.
[09:24] <daveake> NSince then I've settled on 3V3 logic and 3 or 4 AAAs or AAs
[09:28] <costyn> yea i think I'd do that now too if with what I know now. back when I ordered this stuff it seemed like the best way to go
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[09:44] <jcoxon> phew, finally got this 8mhz crystal working
[09:48] <costyn> so, RG58 is fine for making an antenna right? I also have RG174 available
[09:50] <gonzo_> 174 is lighter
[09:52] <cuddykid> received an email from monkey lol
[09:54] <costyn> gonzo_: yes, makes it attractive :) when I make the antenna, do I have to strip off the dielectric as well or only the shielding?
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[09:59] <MLow> i would say just the shielding
[10:00] <MLow> dielectric suggests it has no electrical properties
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[10:00] <MLow> so it's inert
[10:00] <daveake> Using the cable as an aerial? i.e. a "shagi"? Leave the dielectric on for strength
[10:00] <costyn> MLow: yes, I expected this, but just asking to be sure :)
[10:00] <costyn> daveake: ok :)
[10:00] <daveake> Then put a straw over it for some protection :)
[10:00] <MLow> or use straws
[10:01] <MLow> spent couple hundred today
[10:01] <MLow> now i eat ramen till payday
[10:01] <MLow> :D
[10:01] <costyn> daveake: will do that yes
[10:01] <MLow> ramen and balloons m mmmm
[10:01] <costyn> MLow: heh
[10:02] <MLow> ramen is delicious
[10:03] <MLow> used a 25 off 75 staples coupon to get a 64gb ssd for 60 bucks
[10:03] <MLow> win.
[10:08] <costyn> nice
[10:08] <MLow> going to do it again if it works out nice, tried the ship to store option
[10:08] <MLow> never done that
[10:09] <MLow> do a raid 0 with 2 ssd, thats win
[10:09] <MLow> nothing will stop me from loading bf3 faster than anyone soon
[10:09] <fsphil-laptop> what ssd did you go for?
[10:10] <MLow> cruicial m4
[10:10] <MLow> good reviews 515MB/s read
[10:10] <MLow> like 115 write but thats avg
[10:11] <MLow> might push 1GB/s read with raid 0 lets see :P
[10:11] <fsphil-laptop> I was undecided between Intel and OCZ
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[10:12] <fsphil-laptop> I've a couple of OCZ's older ssd drives and they're very nice but slow by todays standards
[10:13] <MLow> raid 0 will bring it back up to standard for 1 ssd
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[10:13] Nick change: cuddykid_ -> cuddykid
[10:14] <fsphil-laptop> they're not the same size, not sure raid would make sense
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[10:15] <MLow> ah
[10:15] <MLow> better than a platter drive at least
[10:15] <MLow> i get like 50MB/s here
[10:15] <MLow> lol
[10:15] <MLow> time for an upgrade for real
[10:15] <MLow> good for storing things cheap, bad for playing bf3, or using photoshop
[10:17] <fsphil-laptop> even the slow ssd was a huge improvement over the classic disk
[10:17] <fsphil-laptop> after the bios limped through its thing, the machine just started in seconds
[10:18] <fsphil-laptop> lack of space is annoying. I may stick a big 1TB disk in there for storage
[10:18] <fsphil-laptop> keep the ssd for the os
[10:20] <zyp> MLow, then you have slow platter drives
[10:20] <zyp> mine easily does 120MB/s
[10:21] <Hiena> Keep the memory for the OS. Used SDRAM based drives, some times ago. It could make a kind of boot time...
[10:21] <eroomde> i have a 64GB ssd for / and 1 1TB hdd for /home
[10:21] <eroomde> it works out great
[10:22] <fsphil-laptop> that's what I'm thinking eroomde
[10:22] <fsphil-laptop> also keep the swap on the TB
[10:22] <eroomde> the ssds are blazing, as fsphil says once the bios has finished it's thing it boots up to my desktop in about 4 seconds
[10:22] <eroomde> yeah swap is on the biggun
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[10:23] <eroomde> i use the crucial m4 ssds on 6gbps sata
[10:23] <fsphil-laptop> I added extra memory to this PC in the hope that I wouldn't need swap, but it seems I still do
[10:23] <eroomde> no point getting a newer ssd if you don't have SATA III (^Gbps)
[10:23] <eroomde> s/^/6
[10:24] <fsphil-laptop> there are ssd drives on pci-e cards - debatable if they're supported under linux though
[10:24] <WillDuckworth> hey you two, sorted that weird blip in transmission problem i had the other day
[10:24] <fsphil-laptop> yikes, the crucial m4 is well prices
[10:31] <fsphil-laptop> or would I be better trying to get a new laptop. aarg, pesky decisions
[10:31] <daveake> Seagate do a SSD+HD combo drive
[10:32] <fsphil-laptop> I'm a bit iffy on the hybrids
[10:32] <fsphil-laptop> seems like a lot in one drive that could go wrong
[10:34] <daveake> SSDs don't have the best track record in that regard anyway
[10:34] <fsphil-laptop> the intel ones have a 5 year warranty
[10:34] <fsphil-laptop> yea that's what I mean -- if the ssd part of the hybrid dies, is the whole drive useless?
[10:35] <daveake> Dunno
[10:35] <daveake> I've heard Intel have the lowest failure rate
[10:35] <fsphil-laptop> when an ssd dies, it goes totally
[10:36] <fsphil-laptop> hdds tend to degrade a bit more gracefully
[10:36] <fsphil-laptop> though not always :)
[10:36] <daveake> I put an SSD in my new laptop, and that had some strange isues so I put in a combo drive which has been fine
[10:37] <daveake> The Dell recovery thing wouldn't restore to the SSD, so I had to install Windows from scratch. After a couple of days I got some strange errors then Windows wouldn't boot. So I restored the original image to a combo drive and that's been fine
[10:38] <daveake> Of course, you could "easily" repair your SSD lol - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Indilinx-SSD-OCZ-Martini-SLC-repair-PCB-64G-128G-256G-/230586704956?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35b009e43c#ht_500wt_1413
[10:39] <daveake> "Our experience shows that over 99% malfunction SSD data can be recoverd by simply replace the PCB." lmao
[10:39] <SpeedEvil> Alternate auction title: 'board from a large bag of boards I found in a skip'
[10:40] <daveake> Indeed :D
[10:40] <fsphil-laptop> haha
[10:40] <fsphil-laptop> the intels have 500MB/sec write speeds
[10:41] <fsphil-laptop> not sure I even need that :)
[10:41] <fsphil-laptop> I better check of my motherboard has sata-iii ports
[10:41] <fsphil-laptop> of/if
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[10:55] <jcoxon> ping fsphil
[10:55] <fsphil-laptop> yoyo
[10:55] <jcoxon> just about to start work on ssdv on the 328
[10:56] <jcoxon> also found that there is a c328 lib
[10:56] <fsphil-laptop> for arduino?
[10:56] <jcoxon> for the camera on arduino - any idea whether its any good?
[10:56] <fsphil-laptop> link?
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[10:56] <fsphil-laptop> it's probably fine
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[10:58] <jcoxon> hmmmm, link is dead
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[10:58] <_Hix> test
[10:59] <fsphil-laptop> pass :)
[10:59] <_Hix> ah ha - finally working :)
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[10:59] <fsphil-laptop> jcoxon, only issue might be the camera going to sleep while the packets are transmitted
[10:59] <fsphil-laptop> I had to add ping of sorts
[11:00] <_Hix> Hi, I joined the group last week and Anthony -upu - said I should check out the freenode.
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[11:00] <daveake> We're here to help :)
[11:00] <SpeedEvil> hr
[11:01] <_Hix> First question is what do you guys use as IRC client? I've got some crap chrome extension at the moment that bombs out if you switch tabs
[11:01] <Upu> hi _hix welcome
[11:01] <Upu> what o/s are you on ?
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[11:02] <_Hix> Windoze XP - work forces it
[11:02] <daveake> I use Trillian as I use it for MSN etc. It's OK
[11:02] <Upu> mIRC then or Trillian but my personal preference is mIRC
[11:02] <Upu> been round since the internet was made of wood and ran on coal
[11:02] <Upu> which technically it still does I suspect
[11:03] <fsphil-laptop> you've been in the internet room?
[11:03] <daveake> :)
[11:03] <fsphil-laptop> I thought that was locked
[11:03] <jcoxon> fsphil-laptop, http://arms22.blog91.fc2.com/blog-entry-261.html
[11:03] <Upu> I understand the word "Arduino" on that page jcoxon :)
[11:03] <jcoxon> hehe
[11:04] <daveake> and "Sparkfun"
[11:04] <fsphil-laptop> and a tank from ghost in the shell :)
[11:04] <jcoxon> pah the code is universal
[11:04] <Upu> http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Farms22.blog91.fc2.com%2Fblog-entry-261.html
[11:05] <fsphil-laptop> they use nss
[11:05] <Upu> doesn't do a half bad job
[11:05] <Upu> feel a little rough because the image was taken in the evening. If you think it will take a little more to clean during the day.
[11:05] <fsphil-laptop> surprised that works actually
[11:05] <jcoxon> fsphil-laptop, yeah i was going to use hardware
[11:06] <fsphil-laptop> yea
[11:06] <fsphil-laptop> only had a quick look but it seems fine
[11:06] <jcoxon> fsphil-laptop, so for ssdv, once the picture is taken where does it get put?
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[11:07] <fsphil-laptop> it's still in the camera, you send a command to read it and the camera will return it in blocks
[11:07] <jcoxon> oh i see
[11:07] <fsphil-laptop> you acknowledge each block after transmittion and it will send the next one
[11:07] <jcoxon> so you use the camera as the buffer
[11:07] <daveake> and it goes to sleep even with that communication going on?
[11:07] <fsphil-laptop> if you leave it long enough
[11:07] <fsphil-laptop> mine did anyway
[11:09] <fsphil-laptop> that library looks like it sets up a callback
[11:09] <fsphil-laptop> for each block received
[11:11] <jcoxon> i might stick to your code
[11:11] <fsphil-laptop> you'll probably want to implement your own getJPEGPicture() function
[11:11] <fsphil-laptop> that one takes control until the entire image is done
[11:11] <fsphil-laptop> if you want to transmit telemetry between packets that won't work
[11:12] <jcoxon> i was planning to not tx telem through this setup
[11:12] <fsphil-laptop> then this might be ideal
[11:12] <fsphil-laptop> in the callback pass the data to ssdv library, if it returns a packet then transmit it
[11:12] <jcoxon> i see
[11:13] <fsphil-laptop> the ssdv part is pretty simple, just feed it the jpeg block at a time
[11:13] <fsphil-laptop> it will either request more data
[11:13] <fsphil-laptop> or return with a packet ready to go
[11:13] <fsphil-laptop> or an error
[11:13] <fsphil-laptop> :)
[11:13] <jcoxon> uhu
[11:13] <jcoxon> h
[11:15] <jcoxon> i see it - in hadie.c
[11:15] <fsphil-laptop> yea - the loop there is a little over complicated because of the telemetry stuff
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[11:18] <costyn> fsphil-laptop: how'd you get the shielding off your coax for your shagi antenna? I've been trying but the braided wire is quite a challenge to get off without destroying it all
[11:18] <_Hix_> right, that seemed to work. Now got a freenode extension to chrome that stays connected if you happen to have the cheek to click somewhere else on the screen :)
[11:18] <costyn> fsphil-laptop: or are the radials in this pic http://www.flickr.com/photos/fsphil/5431825038/in/set-72157626013096240/ not the coax shielding?
[11:19] <fsphil-laptop> costyn, much patience :) I used a very fine screwdriver to separate the wires
[11:19] <fsphil-laptop> starting at the top and moving down
[11:19] <costyn> right heheh... started doing that but got frustrated :)
[11:20] <fsphil-laptop> yes.. you have to be in the right frame of mind to do it :)
[11:20] <daveake> Or have the patience of job
[11:20] <fsphil-laptop> brb
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[11:25] <_Hix_> how many launches in the UK have resulted in a sea ditching? It seems from the predictor that once the balloon reaches what i perceive to be the jetsream it travels NE normally taking it over the North Sea
[11:26] <daveake> During the winter months, quite a few :p
[11:26] <jcoxon> some on purpose
[11:26] <jcoxon> just to point out
[11:26] <_Hix_> how do you go about recovery? Are there RIB owners on standby :p
[11:27] <jcoxon> _Hix_, yeah.... they don't come back
[11:27] <daveake> Last year 2 were returned by boat
[11:27] <jcoxon> thats true
[11:27] <jcoxon> basically in hte UK launches are very weather dependent
[11:27] <jcoxon> the JS doesn't always go that way
[11:28] <jcoxon> so its a matter of waiting for the right time
[11:28] <costyn> fsphil-laptop: what a mess heheh :)
[11:28] <fsphil-laptop> costyn, yep you'll break quite a few :)
[11:28] <costyn> fsphil-laptop: using a big safety pin now, but most of the wire is breaking
[11:28] <_Hix_> so i'm guessing you want to launch in a NE or easterly if the JS is the std SWly
[11:29] <jcoxon> _Hix_, that doesn't always work unfortunately, as the JS is significantly stronger
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[11:30] <daveake> My last launch had 3 distinct wind levels. The first few 100m it was from the south; then it did a 180 for most of the flight, and went east in the jet stream
[11:30] <jcoxon> but you'll find that the JS travels in waves, and these move north and south
[11:30] <jcoxon> so sometimes the JS will be over scotland say
[11:30] <jcoxon> so it'll be relatively calm over england
[11:31] <daveake> so on the way down it went south then back north again ... http://www.daveakerman.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Landing-1024x572.png
[11:31] <costyn> fsphil-laptop: 3 usable radials, do I need 4 even if I'm using tin foil like yours?
[11:31] <jcoxon> _Hix_, have a play with the predictor - over the next couple of days
[11:31] <jcoxon> it'll change quite a bit
[11:32] <jcoxon> i recommend working on a payload - getting it working well
[11:32] <fsphil-laptop> costyn, 3 should be ok
[11:32] <jcoxon> then waiting for the weather
[11:32] <fsphil-laptop> you can solder more on if you want though
[11:34] <_Hix_> I'm starting to get everything together for a payload. It's a case of getting as much weight out of everything as possible. Everything is a compromise. It's like mountaineering all over again
[11:34] <costyn> ok
[11:35] <_Hix_> http://www.southshields.metsite.com/jetstream.html looks helpful for a quick look-see
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[11:36] <fsphil-laptop> costyn, the foil on the payload box in that other picture isn't actually conductive :)
[11:37] <fsphil-laptop> I assumed it was, but I later measured it with a meter and nothing
[11:37] <number10> just cleaned the nest box out fsphil-laptop
[11:38] <fsphil-laptop> any interest in it yet number10?
[11:39] <number10> bright green bedding and quite a few insect larvea
[11:39] <fsphil-laptop> lovely lol
[11:40] <number10> thats what I thoght - first time I have cleaned it since I put it up years ago
[11:40] <number10> I bet most of the bedding I emtied out will end up back in it
[11:40] <fsphil-laptop> ours seems to have a few bird fleas in it .. I'm going to clean it out with boiling water
[11:41] <number10> maybe I should do that
[11:41] <fsphil-laptop> wouldn't do any harm
[11:41] <fsphil-laptop> unless you forget to take your hand away ....
[11:41] <number10> dont know how long it will take to dry
[11:41] <fsphil-laptop> it's not essential .. they manage in the wild without perfectly clean nests
[11:45] <costyn> fsphil-laptop: wait, the foil does'nt conduct? strange
[11:45] <costyn> fsphil-laptop: wouldn't it be more useful if it did (and was connected to the radials)
[11:46] <fsphil-laptop> I suspect it would be-- although that might impact the gps performance
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[11:47] <fsphil-laptop> brb again
[11:57] <costyn> fsphil-laptop: tim has foil as his groundplane http://www.timzaman.nl/?p=1888&lang=en
[11:57] <costyn> fsphil-laptop: although on the last 2 flights it's hard to say if it affected the gps performance :)
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[12:25] <fsphil-laptop> hah
[12:27] <fsphil-laptop> I'm still amazed he recovered all those payloads
[12:27] <fsphil-laptop> but the signal from his flights seemed fine- even when running at 1200 baud
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[12:35] <_Hix-Android> Sorry for another annoying test but want to check phone speaks to freenode
[12:36] <fsphil-laptop> does indeed
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[12:37] <_Hix_> getting there - now I just need an android SSB receiving app ;)
[12:37] <fsphil-laptop> now that would be nice
[12:37] <fsphil-laptop> I'm hoping for one of those actual-linux tablets with an audio-in port
[12:38] <fsphil-laptop> it could run mapping software, dl-fldigi and irc all in a neat package
[12:39] <_Hix_> hmm thinking of that - i suppose it would be easy enough to remote desktop into the server at home running dl-fldigi from the phone. That way you've got processing power on the server and just a portal on the droid...
[12:39] <fsphil-laptop> if mobile connectivity is good enough
[12:40] <fsphil-laptop> I do leave dl-fldigi running on the home machine during flights
[12:41] <fsphil-laptop> depending on how far the payload goes it might not get a signal after landing
[12:41] <fsphil-laptop> and that's when having it all in the chase car is essential
[12:41] <_Hix_> I've run remote desktop using remote desktop using 3G and it's very impressive
[12:41] <fsphil-laptop> it is
[12:42] <_Hix_> https://market.android.com/details?id=com.xtralogic.android.rdpclient&hl=en not the cheapest app out there but a lifesaver at times.
[12:43] <fsphil-laptop> very not free :)
[12:43] <fsphil-laptop> some of the ipad owners at work use the pocketcloud app
[12:43] <fsphil-laptop> seems to work well
[12:43] <_Hix_> nope - but then again it does function flawlessly so i suppose they have earned their fee
[12:43] <_Hix_> I'll have a wee look-see
[12:43] <fsphil-laptop> that's true
[12:45] <_Hix_> hmm a thoroughly credit-crunch beating £9.55
[12:45] <_Hix_> anyone got any views on Yaesu FT-7400 as a mobile bit of kit?
[12:47] <fsphil-laptop> for tracking or general amateur?
[12:48] <_Hix_> tracking - far too many things on the go to be picking up another hobby :)
[12:48] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[12:48] <fsphil-laptop> it's FM only so pretty unsuitable for most uk launches
[12:49] <_Hix_> he says after jumping into HABing whilst trying to learn c# and c++
[12:49] <fsphil-laptop> everyone should learn programming, regardless of what else they're doing :)
[12:49] <_Hix_> is SSB AM? Can't remember without trawling through links
[12:50] <fsphil-laptop> AM has two side bands, plus a carrier. SSB is the carrier and one of the sidebands removed
[12:50] <number10> SSB has carrier suppressed as well
[12:50] <_Hix_> It's a good thing to learn but I'm at the stage where I'm still not really getting it. Been downloading sample code from codeproject and nosing through to see how people are doing something
[12:51] <_Hix_> ahh - need to be reading up on all this radiotrickery mullarkey a bit more
[12:51] <fsphil-laptop> I like to view SSB as the radio taking a chunk of raw radio spectrum, and shifting it down to audio frequencies
[12:52] <fsphil-laptop> you're hearing the actual radio waves
[12:52] <fsphil-laptop> not sure if that helps or makes it more complicated :)
[12:54] <_Hix_> I sort of get the principle from the HAS site but not the real bones of the system. Lets hope the week at work is a quiet as last week :)
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[13:04] <costyn> fsphil-laptop: yea Tim just has lucked out a couple times :)
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[14:35] <jcoxon> here is a question
[14:35] <jcoxon> the c328 lib has this constructor
[14:35] <jcoxon> CameraC328R::CameraC328R(SoftSerial *softSerial)
[14:35] <jcoxon> {
[14:35] <jcoxon> _serialPort = softSerial;
[14:35] <jcoxon> _packageSize = DEFAULT_PACKAGE_SIZE;
[14:35] <jcoxon> }
[14:35] <jcoxon> and i want to upgrade it to the latest softwareserial on arduino1.0
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[14:39] <jcoxon> fixed it
[14:39] <jcoxon> never mind
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[14:50] <jcoxon> ping fsphil
[15:04] <jcoxon> http://aprs.fi/?call=kg5ca-11&mt=roadmap&z=11&timerange=3600&_s=ss_call
[15:04] <fsphil-laptop> pong jcoxon
[15:05] <Laurenceb_> is this a floater?
[15:05] <jcoxon> fsphil-laptop, hey, so i seem to remember that the c328 doesn't allow for slightly off serial speeds
[15:05] <jcoxon> Laurenceb_, nah altitude attempt
[15:06] <fsphil-laptop> yea it can be very fussy about baud rates
[15:06] <jcoxon> hmmmm
[15:06] <jcoxon> so i'm trying the arduino library
[15:06] <jcoxon> which is setup for softwareserial
[15:06] <jcoxon> but on my 8mhz crystal
[15:07] <jcoxon> and am failing at my sync
[15:08] <fsphil-laptop> could be the nss
[15:08] <fsphil-laptop> what baud rate are you using?
[15:08] <jcoxon> 14400
[15:10] <fsphil-laptop> try 9600
[15:10] <fsphil-laptop> not all c328's sync at that speed
[15:10] <fsphil-laptop> if not, try 19200
[15:10] <number10> if this table is correct you error for 14400 os 0.8% http://www.wormfood.net/avrbaudcalc.php
[15:11] <fsphil-laptop> yea, was just looking at the error table
[15:11] <fsphil-laptop> 9600 and 19200 are both 0.2%
[15:12] <SpeedEvil> Once you get to ~5%, stuff may start dropping out.
[15:12] <jcoxon> i think i'll have to switch to hardware
[15:12] <fsphil-laptop> hardware will have the same problem, although less so
[15:13] <Laurenceb_> SpeedEvil: i worked out a way to speed up GPS even more
[15:13] <Laurenceb_> if you hardcore the prn
[15:13] <Laurenceb_> *hardcode
[15:13] <Laurenceb_> into the asm decoding routine
[15:14] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[15:14] <Laurenceb_> i think 16channels of 4bit, 8Msps data is possible
[15:14] <SpeedEvil> Yeah - you do have stuuuupid amounts of ROM
[15:14] <Laurenceb_> its actually faster than blackfin
[15:14] <Laurenceb_> only ~512K
[15:14] <SpeedEvil> So a ~2000 long routine per sat isn't insane
[15:14] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[15:14] <SpeedEvil> yeah - but 4kbytes/sat isn't an issue
[15:15] <Laurenceb_> the lqfp-64 stm32f4 has 1M flash
[15:16] <Laurenceb_> its just bulk loading almost all the registers, xoring some and adding
[15:16] <Laurenceb_> prn offset is handled by setting the index into the raw data buffer
[15:17] <Laurenceb_> and doubling up the raw data using m2m dma
[15:17] <SpeedEvil> I also wondered about something related - generating optimised decode sequences 'live'
[15:17] <SpeedEvil> with a little code generator
[15:17] <SpeedEvil> There is another hack.
[15:18] <SpeedEvil> To improve lock speed, if you are willing to assume strong signals, you can use only part of a PRN code.
[15:18] <Laurenceb_> for lock you can just use fft
[15:18] <SpeedEvil> oh
[15:19] <SpeedEvil> I forgot you were doing that.
[15:19] <SpeedEvil> true
[15:19] <Laurenceb_> theres asm fft routines for M3 that are really fast
[15:19] <Laurenceb_> annoyingly the SE4120 doesnt have "byte" output at 8msps
[15:19] <SpeedEvil> Hmm.
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[15:20] <Laurenceb_> it has a silly sync pulse that makes it a pita to hook up to spi
[15:20] <Laurenceb_> it would work at 5 Msps
[15:21] <SpeedEvil> You're getting IQ samples?
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[15:21] <Laurenceb_> which is probably more than good enough - ive seen 1bit sampling at 2Msps working
[15:21] <Randomskk> hey Laurenceb_
[15:21] <Laurenceb_> Randomskk: sup
[15:22] <Laurenceb_> want a SDR GPS dongle?
[15:22] <Randomskk> I'm making a simple hab payload board but it'l be pin compatible with stm32f4, it has an adf7012 radio and ublox6 gps
[15:22] <Laurenceb_> nice
[15:22] <Randomskk> so I plan to fit at least a couple with an stm32f4 and maybe do some fun data transmission stuff
[15:22] <SpeedEvil> I wonder if you can effectively - say - skew the first half of the code by 0.1 bits one way, the other half 0.1 bits the other, and then pull out the offset directly as the 2khz signal
[15:22] <Randomskk> but anyway I was wondering if you had any thoughts on other neat things that'd be easy to add footprints for to better use the f4
[15:22] <Randomskk> as right now it's looking a little underutilised
[15:22] <Laurenceb_> maybe lsm303dlh
[15:22] <Laurenceb_> magno and accel
[15:23] <Laurenceb_> adf7012 is tx right?
[15:23] <Randomskk> yea
[15:23] <Randomskk> only, sadly
[15:23] <Randomskk> there is the 21 that does both
[15:23] <Laurenceb_> you could add cc1020 and grab some raw data
[15:23] <Randomskk> but need to get this made soon and don't have time to play with that
[15:23] <Randomskk> hmmm
[15:23] <Laurenceb_> to investigate uplink
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[15:23] <Randomskk> what, connected to the same antenna?
[15:23] <Randomskk> just reading it?
[15:23] <Laurenceb_> i dont know
[15:23] <Randomskk> the cc1020 is a bit crap at reading stuff iirc
[15:23] <Randomskk> it like
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[15:23] <Laurenceb_> yeah, and logging, to see what it looks like up there
[15:23] <Randomskk> we just polled the rssi
[15:23] <Laurenceb_> rf wise
[15:24] <Randomskk> if there was something that could plug into the same antenna and just downconvert to my ADC
[15:24] <Randomskk> that'd be... kinda cool.
[15:24] <Laurenceb_> yeah - i cant make rssi work at the same time as baseband extraction
[15:24] <Laurenceb_> on the cc1020
[15:24] <Randomskk> baseband extraction to the adc would be neat though right?
[15:24] <Randomskk> still not sure if it could just plug into the same antenna though
[15:24] <Laurenceb_> you might fry something
[15:25] <Randomskk> yea
[15:25] <Randomskk> I doubt it'd like it
[15:25] <Laurenceb_> itd need good isolation during tx
[15:25] <Randomskk> I guess I could put a switch on, but
[15:25] <Randomskk> that's a lot of extra hassle
[15:25] <Randomskk> I could maybe just put a second sma connector on...
[15:25] <Randomskk> but then it'd need two antennas.
[15:25] <Randomskk> and anyway similar problems are possible
[15:25] <Laurenceb_> and the second would pick up the tx from the first
[15:25] <Randomskk> yea
[15:25] <Randomskk> and then it's still a v strong rf field
[15:25] <Laurenceb_> rf relay XD
[15:26] <Randomskk> you can get those antenna switching things
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[15:26] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[15:26] <Randomskk> hmmm
[15:26] <Randomskk> it's a shame. I'd love to have baseband available to the adc
[15:26] <Randomskk> that would be loads of fun
[15:26] <Randomskk> esp on the f4, they are silly powerful
[15:26] <Randomskk> so much ram >_>
[15:26] <Laurenceb_> you could hack a radiometrix
[15:26] <Randomskk> what, the nrx2 or something?
[15:27] <Randomskk> they are hueg liek xbox though
[15:27] <Laurenceb_> and grab baseband
[15:27] <Laurenceb_> yes
[15:27] <Laurenceb_> oh
[15:27] <Laurenceb_> no wait
[15:27] <Laurenceb_> i think si4432 has analogue baseband out
[15:27] <Laurenceb_> but you cant output I and Q at the same time iirc
[15:27] <Randomskk> ugh why :(
[15:27] <Randomskk> I guess some things only need one or other
[15:27] <Randomskk> but still
[15:27] <Randomskk> sigh
[15:28] <Laurenceb_> itd try cc1020+ rf relay
[15:28] <Randomskk> what can the cc1020 output?
[15:28] <Randomskk> there's also the Si4330 which is receive-only
[15:28] <Laurenceb_> baseband and rssi
[15:29] <Randomskk> hmm
[15:29] <Laurenceb_> but i cant make it output both at once
[15:29] <Randomskk> do you need both?
[15:29] <Laurenceb_> it might just be my dodgey avr stuff
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[15:29] <Laurenceb_> its nice for my sdr
[15:29] <Randomskk> would it be worth just using a transceiver like the 4432 and ditch the adf?
[15:29] <Laurenceb_> avr isnt really fast enough for the job, and lacks dma
[15:29] <Randomskk> oh but similar issues with getting baseband out I guess
[15:29] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[15:29] <Laurenceb_> cc1020 is the only nice way to ge tbaseband ive found
[15:30] <Laurenceb_> apart from funcube obviously
[15:30] <fsphil-laptop> that US launch is ascending pretty slowly
[15:30] <Laurenceb_> thats the idea aiui
[15:30] <Laurenceb_> alitude
[15:30] <Laurenceb_> but i bet it floats XD
[15:30] <Randomskk> cc1020 schematic seems to indicate an rf switch is required anyway
[15:30] <Laurenceb_> yes
[15:30] <Randomskk> would it be worth using it as the tx?
[15:31] <Randomskk> wonder how it compares to adf7012
[15:31] <Laurenceb_> its a bit low power
[15:31] <Randomskk> hm
[15:31] <Laurenceb_> but if you want to be legal...
[15:31] <Laurenceb_> :P
[15:31] <Randomskk> the adf is kinda nice I think
[15:31] <Randomskk> it can be legal
[15:32] <Randomskk> :P
[15:32] <Randomskk> also I have all my circuit designed and set up for it, so
[15:32] <Laurenceb_> anyway, ive gtg in a sec
[15:32] <Randomskk> okay
[15:32] <Randomskk> ta for the chat, I'll investigate a cc1020
[15:32] <Randomskk> would be really cool for uplink
[15:32] <Laurenceb_> are you interested in a stm32f4+se4120 dongle?
[15:32] <Laurenceb_> im making ~20
[15:32] <Randomskk> it sounds really interesting but at the same time I don't think I'd have any time to hack on it
[15:32] <Laurenceb_> usb stick size dongle with sma on the end for SDR GPS dev
[15:32] <Laurenceb_> hehe its a lot of work
[15:33] <Randomskk> yea
[15:33] <Laurenceb_> anyway ill have some spare for ~£20 or something
[15:33] <Randomskk> at the same time, fun piece of kit to have, so I'd probably buy one and hope code comes along some time :P
[15:33] <Randomskk> what kinda dynamic perf do you reckon it could do?
[15:33] <Randomskk> still not quite on par with the blackfin we're thinking of for the rocket gps?
[15:33] <Laurenceb_> i think its almost on a par with blackfin
[15:33] <Randomskk> hmm
[15:33] <Laurenceb_> the processing is a bit different
[15:34] <Randomskk> could be a fun/interesting option for the rocket
[15:34] <Laurenceb_> has to be nibble based not 1bit based
[15:34] Action: Laurenceb_ -> supermarket
[15:34] <Randomskk> seeya
[15:36] <SpeedEvil> In principle, once you jam an accellerometer into the core of the filter, your accelleration is essentially unlimited.
[15:36] <SpeedEvil> You get more or less the same performance accellerating at 500G as you do at 1.
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[15:52] <Randomskk> Laurenceb_: aww it looks like the CC113L, their receive-only chip, can only output RSSI
[15:52] <Randomskk> but then again I can't quite work out how you get baseband out of the CC1020 -- is it this "digital fm" thing via the gaussian filter register?
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[15:55] <SpeedEvil> It's a test mode iIRc
[15:55] <Randomskk> aah
[15:55] <Randomskk> in which case the CC113L might support it too
[15:56] <Randomskk> thought it might be. wish they documented their test modes :P
[15:57] <CovBalloon> who keeps buying all the ar8000's?
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[16:23] <Bahiense> Hi there... anyone here familiar with Trackuino?
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[16:45] <jcoxon> oh dear that altitude balloon has burst
[16:48] <Pavix> someone launch today?
[16:49] <jcoxon> in the states
[16:55] <LazyLeopard> Hmmm...
[16:58] <fsphil-laptop> odd, I expected it to float - it was ascending really slowly
[16:59] <jcoxon> fsphil-laptop, so the python script i used on pegasus 7 runs at 57600
[16:59] <jcoxon> and it works with my laptop as well
[16:59] <jcoxon> so my camera isn't dud
[17:00] <fsphil-laptop> definitely baud rate probs .. no luck with 19200 or 9600?
[17:00] <jcoxon> nope
[17:00] <fsphil-laptop> hardware uart?
[17:00] <jcoxon> i wrote a script that ran through the baud rates
[17:01] <jcoxon> the library i've got has software serial writen through it
[17:01] <jcoxon> it'll take a bit to fix it
[17:01] <fsphil-laptop> not sure if my c328.c is portable across the different avrs
[17:02] <jcoxon> was just going to go to basics
[17:02] <jcoxon> and send the sync command
[17:02] <jcoxon> see if i get a response
[17:03] <fsphil-laptop> _serialPort = softSerial;
[17:03] <fsphil-laptop> can't you just change that line?
[17:03] <jcoxon> its a bit more then that
[17:03] <jcoxon> going to try this first
[17:05] <jcoxon> now that balloon is going up
[17:05] <jcoxon> oh no its not
[17:05] <jcoxon> that was just twitter madness
[17:05] <fsphil-laptop> it looks like it might clear the massive forest
[17:07] <fsphil-laptop> can you get a 7.3728 mhz crystal jcoxon? that would be ideal
[17:10] <Hiena> fsphil-laptop: Why not use a pll instead?
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[17:14] <fsphil-laptop> cause I don't know how :)
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[17:41] <Laurenceb_> Randomskk: back
[17:42] <Laurenceb_> i forget the exact details with cc1020 - you have to read two register quickly after a data ready line is set
[17:42] <Laurenceb_> http://ukhas.org.uk/_media/guides:cc_1020_sdr_r.tar.gz
[17:43] <Laurenceb_> its in there somewhere - avr code
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[17:46] <Randomskk> hmm okay
[17:46] <Randomskk> might leave it for now and play with like an rfm22b or cc1020 as a transceiver for next time
[17:46] <Bahiense> if someone here is familiar with Trackuino... any idea on where the buzzer should be connected on the board?
[17:46] <Randomskk> it's already looking like it will be a world of fun to route: http://randomskk.net/u/wombat.pdf
[17:46] <Laurenceb_> the annoying thing is you have to recalibrate the PLL each time it retunes
[17:46] <Randomskk> brb a couple mins
[17:47] <Laurenceb_> ooh kicad
[17:47] <Laurenceb_> hardcore
[17:48] <Laurenceb_> id stick a SWD/JTAG header on there
[17:48] <Laurenceb_> texane runs very well now
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[17:56] <Randomskk> never tried SWD
[17:56] <Randomskk> texane?
[17:57] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[17:57] <Laurenceb_> opensource reverse engineered SWD support for discovery board
[17:58] <Laurenceb_> i use it for all my stm32 stuff
[17:58] <Randomskk> oh cool
[17:58] <Randomskk> what do I need to put on the board for it?
[17:58] <Laurenceb_> i just use a 0.1" header
[17:58] <Laurenceb_> but there is an "official" 0.05" SWD header design
[17:58] <Randomskk> what signals? (also what hardware goes to it?)
[17:59] <Randomskk> like, what do I need to plug into it?
[17:59] <Randomskk> just normal jtag dongle?
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[18:00] <Laurenceb_> SWIO,SWCLK,V_Target, N_Rst, GND
[18:00] <Laurenceb_> theres also SWO
[18:00] <Laurenceb_> but aiui opensource support for ETM is a bit lacking
[18:01] <Laurenceb_> -embedded trace macrocell
[18:01] <Randomskk> right
[18:01] <Randomskk> btw do you have any better way of dealing with boot0 selection than a push switch?
[18:01] <Laurenceb_> you can use ETM for debug printf also
[18:01] <Lunar_Lander> hello nosebleedkt
[18:02] <Randomskk> that'd be super nice
[18:02] <Laurenceb_> aiui there some hackish code to dump ETM data, but no nice wrapper as it is
[18:02] <Randomskk> what debug hardware do you need?
[18:02] <Laurenceb_> just a sec i have asome ASM
[18:02] <Randomskk> cool
[18:02] <nosebleedkt> hi yo
[18:02] <Randomskk> also in theory this board could do USB bootloading
[18:02] <Lunar_Lander> how are you nosebleedkt?
[18:03] <Laurenceb_> http://bcas.tv/paste/results/U8XKFB93.html
[18:03] <Laurenceb_> ^there
[18:03] <Randomskk> ....oh wow really?
[18:03] <Randomskk> so you can just run that instead of messing with boot0?
[18:04] <Laurenceb_> it works yes
[18:04] <Randomskk> gotta find a way of hooking it up to the programmer though I guess
[18:04] <Laurenceb_> you can call it any time at runtime
[18:04] <nosebleedkt> ehh, I'm ok. And you Lunar_Lander?
[18:04] <Laurenceb_> just use USB DFU
[18:04] <Randomskk> still either need boot0 or something in runtime to trigger it
[18:04] <Randomskk> or what, usb dfu in-app rather than via bootloader?
[18:04] <Lunar_Lander> me too, thanks nosebleedkt
[18:05] <Laurenceb_> Randomskk: just some way of calling that function at runtime
[18:05] <Laurenceb_> like a command over serial or something
[18:05] <Randomskk> yea
[18:06] <nosebleedkt> Lunar_Lander: tell merkel to fuck off and die :)
[18:06] <daveake> ping fsphil (+/-laptop)
[18:06] <Laurenceb_> lol
[18:06] <Lunar_Lander> why?
[18:06] <daveake> or jcoxon :)
[18:06] <Randomskk> I'll have a play
[18:06] <Randomskk> brb dinner
[18:07] <nosebleedkt> Lunar_Lander: do you watch any news :p
[18:07] <Lunar_Lander> sometimes yes
[18:07] <jcoxon> daveake, whats up?
[18:07] <Lunar_Lander> I heard there were riots in Athen
[18:07] <daveake> Just looking for advice on a jpeg camera. Just whatand where to buy.
[18:08] <nosebleedkt> Lunar_Lander: whole greek state is passing to german control. services, natural resources, everything
[18:08] <daveake> More questions will come later no doubt :)
[18:08] <Lunar_Lander> not good
[18:08] <nosebleedkt> and 'our' goverment accepted it
[18:08] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[18:09] <nosebleedkt> so that's the reason merkel should fuck off and die
[18:09] <nosebleedkt> :P
[18:09] <nosebleedkt> with all respect to german people :)
[18:10] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[18:10] <jcoxon> nosebleedkt, oi - keep on topic
[18:10] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[18:11] <jcoxon> there are other channels for politics
[18:11] <nosebleedkt> jcoxon: yeah, sorry, Just wanted to say it to someone :)
[18:12] Action: nosebleedkt trolls everywhere :p
[18:13] <daveake> So, if I wanted to photograph German parliament from the air, perhaps from a payload help aloft by a weather balloon, and then download said using for example a UHF link carrying rtty, what serial camera might I be looking at for purchase?
[18:13] <jcoxon> daveake, difficult one
[18:13] <jcoxon> the c328 is discontinued
[18:13] <jcoxon> but its probably what you want
[18:13] <daveake> The C328 ones I looked at earlier were circa £40-odd
[18:13] <daveake> Seems a bit steep for 640x480
[18:14] <daveake> If/when the raspberry pi happens then maybe any webcam would work, but for now it seems the choice is limited
[18:16] <jcoxon> indeed
[18:16] <jcoxon> the options aren't great
[18:16] <jcoxon> the c328 i have is from my sstv flight
[18:20] <joph> daveake, but pay attention to the regulations ;)
[18:21] <joph> something which looks like a drone on radar is very dangerous ;)
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[18:22] <daveake> btw I built a copy of my dunked-in-the-english-channel rfm22b tracker and compared the two (I thought the original was a bit down on power after its excursion). Both performing the same, which is good.
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[18:23] <daveake> I'm thinking of flying both together, one using Navrac's code to switch frequency by adjusting the offset register.
[18:26] <jcoxon> cool
[18:27] <daveake> My setup seems to be happier with your code but I'll try both at distance sometime soon
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[18:29] <daveake> You can see the salt water damage especially at the top of the board here - http://imgur.com/KAtPc
[18:30] <fsphil-laptop> you can still buy c328-based cameras but they're silly money
[18:31] <jcoxon> fsphil-laptop, i'm getting a response from the camera now
[18:31] <fsphil-laptop> yes! what changed?
[18:31] <jcoxon> so i'm doing the sync command raw
[18:31] <daveake> fsphil-laptop Yeah, so I noticed :(
[18:31] <jcoxon> and powering the camera from another source
[18:32] <fsphil-laptop> there are very cheap 640x480 sensors available, but it would mean doing the jpeg encoding on an avr
[18:32] <jcoxon> eek
[18:32] <fsphil-laptop> power problems?
[18:33] <jcoxon> but then i tried the lib and no joy
[18:33] <jcoxon> so i'm going to pursue the current line
[18:35] <fsphil-laptop> that's a bit odd
[18:35] <fsphil-laptop> one thing I noticed when developing for it, is it will stop responding if you leave it half way through taking an image
[18:36] <fsphil-laptop> needs a power cycle occasionally
[18:36] <fsphil-laptop> I think the firmware on it is buggy
[18:37] <Flo_> hi
[18:37] <Lunar_Lander> hi
[18:37] <Flo_> I would like to talk to the creator of habhub.com
[18:39] <fsphil-laptop> not sure they're on at the moment. anything we can help with?
[18:40] <Flo_> I'm a french student and i'm building the same kind of predictor that's why i need some advices
[18:40] <Randomskk> Flo_: it's a bit more complicated than that
[18:40] <Randomskk> what's your question about in particular?
[18:41] <Randomskk> various pieces of the predictor technology were done by different people
[18:41] <Randomskk> (incidentally, why are you building your own? just out of interest)
[18:41] <Flo_> How do you talk with noaa servers ?
[18:41] <Randomskk> via their OpenDAP service
[18:41] <Randomskk> and in particular, using pyopendap on our end
[18:42] <Flo_> ok it's in python ?
[18:42] <Randomskk> https://github.com/jonsowman/cusf-standalone-predictor/blob/master/predict.py gets wind data
[18:42] <Randomskk> https://github.com/jonsowman/cusf-standalone-predictor/tree/master/pred_src uses wind data to make predictions
[18:43] <Randomskk> https://github.com/jonsowman/cusf-standalone-predictor/tree/master/predict is the web interface to that
[18:43] <Flo_> It's what I need, thank you very much !
[18:44] <Randomskk> you're welcome
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[18:45] <Flo_> A last question, out of curiosity
[18:46] <Flo_> why are you developping such a software ?
[18:47] <Randomskk> for predicting where high altitude balloons end up, so that we know if it's safe to launch them and where to go to recover them
[18:47] <Randomskk> (if they go near an airport or a city, we don't launch)
[18:47] <Flo_> Do you work for an airport ?
[18:47] <Randomskk> no
[18:48] <Randomskk> the high altitude balloon stuff is mostly hobbyist
[18:48] <Randomskk> though personally in my case it's also part of a student society at university
[18:51] <Flo_> ok, I'm developping a software to predict the trajectory of all kind of balloon infalted with helium by considering its mecanical features
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[18:52] <Flo_> It's more general that only working with metaorological balloon, but with php it's a very tedious work
[18:53] <Randomskk> I can imagine. I probably wouldn't recommend PHP for that.
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[18:53] <Flo_> There is a french website which offer this service : http://alerteselectroniques.fr/rs/?page_id=509
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[19:03] <Laurenceb_> Randomskk: if you just want 434mhz sampling, you could use a mixer and F4 adc
[19:03] <Randomskk> hmmmm
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[19:03] <Randomskk> where'd I get an lo to mix with?
[19:03] <Laurenceb_> lna->saw->mixer
[19:04] <Laurenceb_> anything
[19:04] <Randomskk> oh...
[19:04] <Randomskk> like the transmitter
[19:04] <Laurenceb_> one of those tunable sources
[19:04] <Randomskk> seeing as the switch is closed
[19:04] <Randomskk> it'd be dead on frequency too that way
[19:04] <Laurenceb_> as its not a wideband scanner
[19:04] <Laurenceb_> its easy to do
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[19:04] <Laurenceb_> as you can have a saw filter
[19:04] <Laurenceb_> and not worry about harmonics
[19:04] <Laurenceb_> having said that this sort of stuff isnt easy
[19:04] <Randomskk> indeed
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[19:04] <Laurenceb_> cc1020 "just works"
[19:05] Action: Laurenceb_ is still trying to figure out gps
[19:05] <Randomskk> also the board space for a lna, saw filter, mixer, LO
[19:05] <Randomskk> and RF switch
[19:05] <Laurenceb_> i think ive missed the point with loads fo channels
[19:05] <Randomskk> I think I'll leave it for now and think hard about it later
[19:05] <Laurenceb_> it only needs ~10channels
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[19:05] <Randomskk> this board kinda needs making sooner rather than later
[19:05] <Randomskk> it seems to have become a marketting thing?
[19:05] <Laurenceb_> if theres a nice way to lock onto the sats
[19:05] <Laurenceb_> yes
[19:05] <Randomskk> like "woo we have 64 channels..."
[19:05] <MLow> tire is holding at 34 psi after 7 hours
[19:05] <MLow> i think...im ok
[19:05] <Laurenceb_> if you have fft code to find sats
[19:06] <Laurenceb_> then you only need number of channels == max number of sats
[19:06] <MLow> tire pressure light turned off
[19:06] <Laurenceb_> in which case i can easily do 12 channels with 8Msps 2 bit sampling
[19:06] <Laurenceb_> the fastest the SE4120 will go !
[19:07] <Laurenceb_> then theres some spare capacity, so have a big dma buffer and run chibios
[19:07] <Randomskk> these f4s are ridiculously powerful
[19:07] <Laurenceb_> then theres spare capacity to run fft signal aquisition in the background and other fancy stuff
[19:09] <Laurenceb_> sige sample uses 8msps sampling, and i way getting really smooth locks using that with matlab code
[19:09] <Laurenceb_> ~1m position drift
[19:09] <Randomskk> crazy
[19:10] <Laurenceb_> there was ~5m position error from Hallams roof
[19:10] <Laurenceb_> looked like it needed ionospheric correction, but thats a pita
[19:11] <Laurenceb_> the origional gps docs gave examples in terms of pseudo asm on a generic 16bit processor
[19:11] <Laurenceb_> i couldnt find an easy to read source on how to do the correction
[19:11] <SpeedEvil> Write a softcore for the processor. :)
[19:12] <Laurenceb_> theres EGNOS now
[19:12] <Laurenceb_> ublox5 with EGNOS gives insane performance
[19:12] <SpeedEvil> Does iono skew the top and bottom half of the L1 GPS signal against each other - 'smearing' it?
[19:12] <Laurenceb_> i can walk along the street and see each footstep
[19:13] <Laurenceb_> not really - it just gives a delay
[19:13] <Laurenceb_> you get a delay on ~all sats, so end up with a position being too low
[19:13] <SpeedEvil> So the frequency depednance isn't really strong enough over 1M to be an issue
[19:13] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[19:13] <Laurenceb_> the broadcast data contains a really rough ionospheric correction
[19:14] <Laurenceb_> good enough to get the error from ~5m to ~2
[19:14] <Laurenceb_> EGNOS gets you to <1M, as does military code
[19:16] <SpeedEvil> I was wondering a while ago about M-code. I can't see any way to use it, unless you happen to have a fast internet connection, and a 34m dish somewhere pointed at a sat to directly recieve the signal
[19:17] <Laurenceb_> you can detect the bit endges
[19:17] <SpeedEvil> Hmm - can it help with better iono correction, I wonder
[19:20] <Laurenceb_> would need a dual frequency front end
[19:21] <Laurenceb_> so useless
[19:21] <Laurenceb_> whats the simplest way to take a byte and split it into 8bits in a 32bit wors
[19:21] <Laurenceb_> *word
[19:21] <Laurenceb_> each bit at the start of a nibble?
[19:21] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[19:22] <SpeedEvil> Well - table, I guess.
[19:22] <Laurenceb_> yeah thats what i thought
[19:22] <SpeedEvil> I don't think you're getting faster.
[19:23] <Laurenceb_> works out as ~6 clks
[19:23] <Laurenceb_> cant find a simple way to do it with multiplication
[19:24] <SpeedEvil> Is multiplication single clock?
[19:24] <SpeedEvil> Diddn't think it was.
[19:24] <Laurenceb_> yes
[19:25] <Laurenceb_> you can also do dual 32 to 64bit multiply
[19:25] <Laurenceb_> theres even single cycle float sqrt
[19:25] <Laurenceb_> no integer sqrt tho
[19:25] <SpeedEvil> Funky
[19:26] <Laurenceb_> but all the bits in the byte are next to each other so it doesnt really work without a load of masking
[19:26] <Laurenceb_> which makes it slow
[19:28] <SpeedEvil> It seems multiplying by a magic number might work
[19:28] <SpeedEvil> But I think the number involved is too large.
[19:28] <SpeedEvil> As you need to overflow
[19:30] <Laurenceb_> theres a "grab overflow" instruction
[19:30] <Laurenceb_> SMMUL or something
[19:31] <SpeedEvil> Aren't those the 'clipping' multiplies?
[19:34] <Laurenceb_> heres dual 32bit to 64bit result multiply as well
[19:34] <Laurenceb_> but actually its slower
[19:34] <Laurenceb_> as the result needs masking and oring
[19:34] <Laurenceb_> multiply, mask upper, mask lower, or as opposed to add to pointer, load
[19:36] <SpeedEvil> It's depressing when the boring way is faster. :)
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[20:28] <nosebleedkt> Lunar_Lander: https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/297487_2041743168020_1377549819_1911104_188477128_n.jpg
[20:28] <nosebleedkt> ops
[20:28] <nosebleedkt> wrong
[20:28] <nosebleedkt> sory
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[20:54] <Lunar_Lander> hi Upu and CovBalloon
[20:54] <CovBalloon> hi
[20:56] <Lunar_Lander> and hi NigeyS
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[21:34] <Bahiense> I'm designing my first payload... my question is, how do you keep the glass viewport for the camera from getting all steamed-up?
[21:34] <Darkside> hehe
[21:35] <Darkside> we don't have a viewport
[21:35] <Darkside> we just have the camera lens sticking out
[21:35] <Bahiense> Well, I guess the same is valid for the lens... does it get steamed-up?
[21:35] <Darkside> ours didnt
[21:36] <Darkside> i guess its more to do with sharp temperature differences across the glass
[21:36] <Darkside> and we didn't have that
[21:36] <Bahiense> Or maybe this isn't really a problem and I'm overthinking stuff then :)
[21:39] <Darkside> you shouldn't *not* overthink anything
[21:39] <griffonbot> @LVL1WhiteStar: InReach Iridium Antenna extension and weather shield #UKHAS [http://twitter.com/LVL1WhiteStar/status/171348174370381824]
[21:39] <russss> the lens doesn't tend to steam up because the camera keeps it warm
[21:39] <russss> but glass viewports do
[21:40] <Bahiense> I see, that's a good piece advice... thanks!
[21:40] <Randomskk> I've actually seen someone fly a double glazed window
[21:40] <Randomskk> it didn't steam up
[21:40] <Randomskk> may have been good fortune or the internal payload heater or who knows what
[21:40] <jcoxon> flush it with He before launch
[21:41] <Randomskk> I'm dubious it helped much versus just not having a window...
[21:41] <Randomskk> hehe
[21:41] <Darkside> people seem to be concerned with their payload getting very very cold
[21:41] <russss> we should do a flight with several different payloads testing different de-misting techniques.
[21:41] <Darkside> they fail to realise most electronics can operate safetly down to a good -30 or so
[21:41] <jcoxon> also flights are short
[21:41] <jcoxon> i suspec they don't get 'that' cold
[21:42] <Bahiense> jcoxon, flush it with He? really?
[21:42] Action: Upu wonders if this will restart after 3 days at -50'c :)
[21:43] <russss> Bahiense: well it sounds like a reasonable plan, I'm not sure if anyone has tried it
[21:43] <Upu> you could use a dew heater
[21:43] <Upu> but they do take alot of power
[21:43] <Upu> Bello Mondo uses one
[21:44] <Bahiense> Thanks guys, sorry if my questions sound -are- silly... I'm just trying not to embarrass myself over some stupid mistake on the first launch :D
[21:45] <Upu> ask away I'm sure everyone here has some element of failure in their launches
[21:45] <Darkside> heh
[21:45] <Upu> I have alot of elements
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[21:45] <Darkside> does not recovering count as failure?
[21:45] <jcoxon> Darkside, i hope not
[21:45] <Upu> only if its unintentional
[21:45] <Darkside> haha
[21:45] <Darkside> ok so thats 2 launches we've had 'fail'
[21:45] <Darkside> the other one was a sacrifice
[21:47] <Bahiense> Well, we all know this is somehow risky... so not recovering the payload is actually a possibility... I'm actually terrified about some error I may commit, like letting the balloon go without the payload, or something as fatal as that
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[21:48] <Upu> Bahiense they do pull up with alot of force but take precautions
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[21:49] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:sealing_the_balloon
[21:50] <Randomskk> Bahiense: haha letting go of a balloon before the payload gets on is the worst
[21:50] <Randomskk> it's even better if you do it when you're launching for someone else...
[21:51] <Bahiense> That's a really helpful guide Upu, thanks!
[21:51] <Upu> Rocketboy wrote it
[21:51] <Upu> heaps of info on the Wiki
[21:51] <Bahiense> yes, I'm browsing it as we speak :)
[21:52] <Upu> so do you already have a payload ? (Sorry if you answered this already)
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[21:54] <Laurenceb_> ive just used polystyrene foam enclosures sealed around the camera lens
[21:54] <Bahiense> Upu, I'm building a Trackuino
[21:54] <Upu> ah ok
[21:55] <Darkside> Bahiense: hehehee
[21:55] <Darkside> Bahiense: when you get to the putting code on it stage, let me know
[21:55] <Darkside> we've got a fork of trackuino that does some better things
[21:55] <Upu> You in the US I guess ?
[21:55] <Bahiense> Oh, really?
[21:56] <Bahiense> Nope, Argentina here
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[21:56] <Darkside> Bahiense: it adds telemetry packet support, and also adds support for aprs.fi's base91 compressed telemetry-in-status-text stuff
[21:56] <Upu> oh welcome aboard first we've had from Argentina It hink
[21:56] <Bahiense> Thanks a lot... for sure I feel lonely down here regarding HABs :D
[21:57] <Darkside> don't worry, we're not crying for you
[21:57] <Darkside> wait
[21:57] <Darkside> other way around
[21:57] <Bahiense> Haha
[21:57] <Darkside> (sorry)
[21:57] <Upu> Darkside is the wrong hemisphere too
[21:57] <Darkside> yeah i'm an australian mate
[21:57] <Bahiense> oh, nice
[21:57] <Darkside> strewth, i need to head into uni
[21:58] <Darkside> i'm late i'm late for a very important date
[21:58] <Upu> pls more stereotypes
[21:58] <Darkside> cyas later
[21:58] <Upu> call me Sheila
[21:58] <Darkside> Upu: naaaaaaaah mate
[21:58] <Upu> :)
[21:58] <Bahiense> So far I haven't seen any other launch on South America, all the way up to Mexico
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[21:59] <cuddykid> got back to see a royal mail delivery notice left for me - guess that's the uBlox :D
[22:00] <griffonbot> @LVL1WhiteStar: Antenna mounted, u.fl connection under the black ribbed section. #UKHAS http://t.co/DqiL05v3 [http://twitter.com/LVL1WhiteStar/status/171353581285425153]
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[22:04] <Jim3> Darkside: interesting comment about your Trackuino fork, do you have a link to the source?
[22:07] <Bahiense> oh, by the way... Darkside, have you ever used a buzzer with your Trackuino?
[22:09] <Darkside> http://code.google.com/p/project-horus/
[22:09] <Darkside> in thete somewhete
[22:12] <Darkside> I dont think the aprs.fi base91 stuff is in there yet
[22:12] <Darkside> and some of the telemetry stuff is hardcoded :p
[22:13] <Jim3> cheers, i'll go check it out
[22:16] <Pavix> ugh, that'd make me sick if I let the balloon go without the payload attached
[22:18] <Darkside> we've had a balloon slip off the filler during tie off
[22:18] <Darkside> go watch the horus 8 video on projecthorus.org
[22:25] <Pavix> Sad that the gopro didn't record more video. Are you sure you can fit 4 hrs of 1080p video on a 4gb card? I bought a 720 camera and a 16GB card and it only lets me put about 53mins of video on it at that resolution
[22:27] <Darkside> pavix: it was a firmware buf
[22:27] <Darkside> bug
[22:27] <Darkside> thats since been resolved
[22:27] <Darkside> check some of the more recent videos, horus 14 for example
[22:28] <Darkside> its about 4gb per 45min at 1080p
[22:28] <Darkside> h264 encoding
[22:30] <Pavix> tux in space, that's awesome!
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[22:31] <Darkside> jeez, that was 8 launches ago...
[22:32] <Darkside> over a year...
[22:32] <Bahiense> Darkside, what material did you use on that stabilising fin for Horus 8?
[22:33] <Darkside> polystyrene
[22:33] <Darkside> bbl
[22:38] <Laurenceb_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poly_Styrene
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[22:44] <Lunar_Lander> hello again for a moment
[22:45] <Pavix> Howdy
[22:46] <Lunar_Lander> how is the life?
[22:47] <Pavix> Not too bad, bought a styrafoam cooler for my payload. Cant wait to start getting the electronics in
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[22:48] <Lunar_Lander> cool
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[22:55] <Lunar_Lander> hello andrew_apex
[22:57] <andrew_apex> hi Lunar_Lander
[22:58] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
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[23:06] <andrew_apex> Lunar_Lander: excellent thanks :) Thinking about whether we should delay the Apex III launch :P
[23:06] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:06] <Lunar_Lander> how comes?
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[23:15] <Lunar_Lander> andrew_apex:
[23:16] <andrew_apex> the current prediction has it going over europe - it would be much easier to retrieve it it says over the UK :)
[23:16] <andrew_apex> but we'll see if we can get funding to go over to pick it up, or if the prediction changes during the week :)
[23:17] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:17] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[23:17] <Lunar_Lander> system is running?
[23:17] <andrew_apex> the important bits :P
[23:17] <Lunar_Lander> :) yay
[23:17] <andrew_apex> some of the modules (eg gas sensors) are still being worked on
[23:17] <andrew_apex> but radio and gps are working fine
[23:17] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:18] <andrew_apex> how's your payload going?
[23:19] <Lunar_Lander> well yesterday I wired up the Arduino Mega to the PC for the first time and it worked first of all
[23:19] <Lunar_Lander> that was good
[23:19] <andrew_apex> good start :D
[23:19] <Lunar_Lander> then I opened the static test example from TinyGPS and uploaded it
[23:20] <Lunar_Lander> first it did nothing in the serial monitor, that irritated me
[23:20] <andrew_apex> were you inside at the time?
[23:20] <Lunar_Lander> then, about 10 seconds later it printed out the data from the hardcoded sentences
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[23:20] <Lunar_Lander> no, the static test was designed to run without a GPS
[23:20] <andrew_apex> ah, ok
[23:21] <Lunar_Lander> he wrote four NMEA sentences into the program
[23:21] <Lunar_Lander> and the program read from those
[23:21] <andrew_apex> right
[23:21] <Lunar_Lander> I wonder
[23:21] <Lunar_Lander> my Venus GPS never got a lock before
[23:22] <Lunar_Lander> but If I can still use it to try the dynamic example
[23:22] <Lunar_Lander> it prints out the coordinates of Taiwan
[23:22] <Lunar_Lander> it should work I think
[23:22] <Lunar_Lander> just to try it out
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[23:23] <andrew_apex> good luck with that :)
[23:23] <andrew_apex> what are you doing for the radio?
[23:33] <Lunar_Lander> what module?
[23:33] <Lunar_Lander> NTX2
[23:33] <Lunar_Lander> and Yaesu FT-790R on the ground
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[23:37] <Lunar_Lander> sorry for the delayed answer andrew_apex
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[23:43] <andrew_apex> Lunar_Lander: don't worry about the delay - I'm doing four things at once :P Sounds like a good setup - when do you think you'll be ready to launch?
[23:43] <Lunar_Lander> I have to launch until the end of may
[23:43] <Lunar_Lander> otherwise my best mate will end the friendship
[23:43] <Lunar_Lander> she said
[23:43] <andrew_apex> :P
[23:44] <andrew_apex> are you sending up a camera?
[23:45] <Lunar_Lander> do you know those 808 keyring cameras?
[23:45] <andrew_apex> yeah
[23:45] <andrew_apex> I built a waterproof housing for mine
[23:45] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[23:45] <Lunar_Lander> well that
[23:46] <andrew_apex> would you power them from an external battery?
[23:46] <Lunar_Lander> yeah, I found a battery box on RC Groups
[23:46] <Lunar_Lander> but I have to look into that USB thing
[23:46] <Lunar_Lander> they say the USB port on the 808 is non-standard
[23:46] <Lunar_Lander> the positive lead is not on pin 1 but on pin 4
[23:46] <andrew_apex> :S
[23:47] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:47] <Lunar_Lander> maybe I can get a canon in time
[23:47] <Lunar_Lander> I think converting those to auto is easy
[23:47] <Lunar_Lander> cause many people here did that
[23:47] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[23:47] <andrew_apex> yup
[23:48] <Lunar_Lander> what were the cameras on Apex II?
[23:48] Action: andrew_apex checks
[23:49] <andrew_apex> SD300s
[23:49] <andrew_apex> they're cheap, but not great quality
[23:50] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[23:50] <Lunar_Lander> I also got a openlog
[23:51] <Lunar_Lander> and a BMP085, DS18B20 and HIH-4030
[23:51] <andrew_apex> the ixus 100s are great cameras, but expensive
[23:52] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:56] <Lunar_Lander> andrew_apex: and then I want to solder those "female" headers to a stripboard so that I can put everything on there
[23:56] <Lunar_Lander> not like the breadboard
[23:57] <andrew_apex> do you're planning to make a shield for the arduino? (of sorts)
[23:57] <Lunar_Lander> not yet
[23:57] <Lunar_Lander> maybe later
[00:00] --- Mon Feb 20 2012