highaltitude.log.20120215

[00:00] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[00:00] <griffonbot> Received email: Philip Heron "Re: [UKHAS] habitat upload totals"
[00:01] Action: fsphil-laptop has captcha phobia now ... thanks sparkfun! ;)
[00:03] Nick change: soafee-chan -> spacekitteh
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[00:06] <Pavix> Hmm, appears google is looking to buy Motorola. The question is why, with the popularity of android phones what could they possibly gain
[00:08] <fsphil-laptop> a mobile phone company apple won't take to court
[00:10] <Pavix> Good point
[00:10] <Lunar_Lander> hi Pavix
[00:10] <Pavix> Howdy
[00:10] <Lunar_Lander> are you new here?
[00:10] <Pavix> I am
[00:10] Action: fsphil-laptop always plans to have an early night, but ends up compiling something
[00:11] <Lunar_Lander> :) Pavix: UK, USA, AUS, GER?
[00:11] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[00:11] <Pavix> US, Iowa
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[00:11] <fsphil-laptop> or * None of the above
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[00:12] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[00:12] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[00:12] <fsphil-laptop> one of the better named states I think
[00:12] <Pavix> fsphil-laptop: I was planning on sleeping through the day but either they gave me some bum pills or Vicodin is not as great as it's cracked up to be :P
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[00:16] <Pavix> I'm still in the planning stages of my first balloon, but I've got a rough outline of electronics. it's just a matter of getting the cash together, and finding a place that has helium in stock nearby
[00:16] <fsphil-laptop> what are you hoping to fly?
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[00:17] <Pavix> 1200 gram balloon. I forget the manufacturer, I have it bookmarked on my laptop
[00:17] <Lunar_Lander> kaymont, totex, hwoyee
[00:17] <Pavix> Kaymont
[00:17] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[00:19] <Lunar_Lander> and what will be the payload?
[00:19] <fsphil-laptop> I think my last one was a kaymont
[00:21] <Pavix> I'm going with powershots for the stills because my friend showed me a site with customizations you can load to take a picture every x seconds automatically. For video I'll probably buy an olympus like the one I already have. I've tested it and it can record for about 1.3 hrs before running out of battery, so I'll get a aftermarket batter with double the mAh rating and hack it together
[00:21] <fsphil-laptop> yea, CHDK
[00:22] <Pavix> Probably do the same for the powershot. Then for recovery I bought a Virgin Mobile LG Optimus V with seekdroid on it. I'll have a Lassen IQ for GPS dumping to an openlogger, I'll probably throw another sensor or 2 and dump them to openlogger as well
[00:22] <Pavix> should be pretty lightweight
[00:25] <fsphil-laptop> what's mobile coverage like there?
[00:25] <Pavix> I have sprint, which is what virgin mobile piggybacks on, so it's pretty reliable
[00:26] <Pavix> I initially was gonna do some xbee modules but I didn't want to have to deal with LoS issues
[00:27] <zyp> Pavix, didn't google buy motorola months ago?
[00:27] <Lunar_Lander> which sensors?
[00:27] <fsphil-laptop> we tend to use radio trackers so we can monitor it live
[00:27] <fsphil-laptop> often with a gsm backup tracker
[00:28] <Pavix> BMP085, not sure what else I'll put on there if anything
[00:28] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[00:28] <Pavix> Are you talking HAM radio? I thought about that but it would require extra equipment and licenses
[00:30] <fsphil-laptop> it does yea. we actually use license-exempt modules on the payloads but they still need an amateur receiver on the ground
[00:33] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[00:34] <Pavix> Let me ask, what do you do for the balloon to keep it from interfering with the parachute? Do you have a disconnect module rigged?
[00:35] <Lunar_Lander> sometimes yes but I don't really know how to mount it above the chute
[00:35] <fsphil-laptop> yea, it's tricky that
[00:36] <Pavix> I thought about getting a pic, attaching it to an altimeter and if it dropped x amount of feet in x seconds trigger a switch that would seperate the balloon, but I don't know
[00:36] <Lunar_Lander> I thought about an auto-cutdown
[00:36] <Lunar_Lander> that senses the descent and then cuts free the balloon remains
[00:37] <Lunar_Lander> yeah Pavix
[00:37] <Darkside> if you have a clean burst there isnt much point in doing that
[00:37] <fsphil-laptop> the switch may interfere with the chute too though
[00:37] <Lunar_Lander> but how can one ensure a clean burst
[00:37] <fsphil-laptop> lasers
[00:37] <fsphil-laptop> :)
[00:38] <Darkside> lol
[00:38] <Darkside> Lunar_Lander: you can't really
[00:38] <fsphil-laptop> not sure you can
[00:38] <Darkside> you jut have to hope the balloon does what its meant to do
[00:38] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[00:39] <fsphil-laptop> of the two flights I recovered, both came back with quite a lot of balloon
[00:43] <fsphil-laptop> I really need to recover the next one.. my stats are looking bad :)
[00:43] <Pavix> Did you have some you didn't recover?
[00:44] <Lunar_Lander> of course
[00:44] <Lunar_Lander> not me, I still have 0 flights
[00:44] <Lunar_Lander> but it happens of course
[00:45] <fsphil-laptop> Pavix, 2 out of 4. but to be fair the two lost where my own fault for launching in bad conditions
[00:46] <Pavix> Ahh, high winds?
[00:46] <fsphil-laptop> yea
[00:47] <Pavix> Sucks. Did you have a contact card on the payload so if someone finds it they can get in touch with you?
[00:48] <fsphil-laptop> they do - though the last one landed in the north sea
[00:48] <Pavix> damn, sorry
[00:48] <fsphil-laptop> should float but there won't be much left inside :)
[00:49] <fsphil-laptop> well I designed it with that possibility -- it didn't carry any expensive cameras
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[00:50] <fsphil-laptop> and the pictures it did take where transmitted during the flight
[00:50] <Pavix> I couldnt imagine sending up a expensive dslr
[00:51] <fsphil-laptop> I wonder if anyone has
[00:51] <zyp> I'd send up my old 30D but that hardly counts as expensive anymore
[00:53] <zyp> pretty much not worth anything because it's not fully working, damaged shutter
[00:53] <zyp> and worth even less after I opened it up to play with it, and removed the IR filter
[00:53] <fsphil-laptop> woo, compiler done. g'night all :)
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[00:54] <Pavix> The olympus I'm sending is a $50 10mp that'll do video. The powershot will be the more expensive one at about $100-$150 but will only be 3.2MP
[00:55] <zyp> a pity 30D is too old to do anything cool
[00:56] <zyp> because I wouldn't mind actually launching it with a cheap lens
[00:56] <Pavix> How much does it weigh?
[00:56] <zyp> body is around 600g IIRC
[00:57] <zyp> it's not of the lightest DSLRs, it has a metal body
[00:57] <Pavix> Ahh, do you guys in Europe have the same weight restrictions we do?
[00:57] <zyp> no idea, I'm not into HABing
[00:57] <zyp> not yet, at least
[00:59] <zyp> I need to find out where I put the old camera and play a bit more with IR photography one day
[01:00] <zyp> http://bin.jvnv.net/f/hRSrH.jpg <- took this picture last time I were playing around with it, confirming that a bottle of coke is ir transparent
[01:01] <Pavix> Nice
[01:02] <zyp> camera is not really unusable, the damaged shutter only shows up at fast shutter speeds
[01:02] <zyp> but I tended to forget about that, and got tired of it ruining otherwise good outdoor shots
[01:04] <zyp> http://bin.jvnv.net/f/8lYUc.jpg <- like this one
[01:05] <Pavix> Quad,I built one of those but had a crappy frame so it was completely useless
[01:05] <zyp> I'm doing my own controller for one
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[01:07] <zyp> so far not really able to fly good, but I'll get around to that :p
[01:07] <Pavix> I used openpilot, was a nice setup. Just near impossible to get your hands on. I had 3 boards made to make my own but never got around to it
[01:07] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[01:08] <zyp> http://bin.jvnv.net/f/nGjGf.png <- I just finished this today
[01:08] <Lunar_Lander> what kind of datalogger do you want to use for the GPS/sensors?
[01:08] <zyp> so I guess I'll get more software done when I have some decent hardware
[01:08] <Pavix> http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9530 <--this guy
[01:09] <Pavix> Nice, what chip are you gonna use?
[01:09] <zyp> STM32F4
[01:10] <zyp> so far I've been using the F1
[01:11] <Lunar_Lander> yay also got OpenLog :)
[01:11] <Pavix> You should be able to throw alot at that chip.
[01:11] <zyp> yeah
[01:12] <Pavix> Yea, it was cheap. It looks like I'll need a logger for each device, I was hoping to be able to use 1 device to log all serial inputs with something like a pic or a duino but so far I'm not finding anything
[01:12] <zyp> also included a CPLD on the board, so I can reroute IO to other functions so I don't have to make another board when I want to hook it to something slightly different
[01:13] <BrainDamage> isn't a cpld as crossbar a bit overkill?
[01:15] <zyp> I might want to do some muxing and other logic in it aswell
[01:16] <zyp> and it's $1 or something like that, so cost is hardly an issue
[01:16] <BrainDamage> btw, how much did you pay for the F4?
[01:16] <zyp> got it from digikey, so $15-ish or so
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[04:54] <MLow> baaack
[04:54] <MLow> hi Dan-K2VOL
[04:54] <MLow> get some sleep last night?
[04:54] <Dan-K2VOL> hehe Hi MLow
[04:55] <Dan-K2VOL> ha yeah I slept till two PM
[04:56] <MLow> i worked a double shift
[04:56] <MLow> :D
[04:57] <MLow> and got another double tmorrow
[04:58] <Dan-K2VOL> ugh, what do you do?
[04:58] <MLow> host
[04:58] <MLow> at an eating estblish...a mexican joint
[04:59] <Dan-K2VOL> ah at least not far from lunch!
[05:00] <MLow> ha
[05:00] <MLow> as if i could afford it...
[05:00] <Dan-K2VOL> jeez do they at least give you a discount?
[05:00] <MLow> yeah
[05:01] <MLow> still 8 bucks for a burrito after the discount
[05:01] <Dan-K2VOL> yikes
[05:02] <MLow> they dont pay me enough for that
[05:04] <MLow> time to blow some steam killing PLR
[05:04] <MLow> anyone play BF3?
[05:05] <MLow> no? ok..be back in an hour or so
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[06:27] <MLow> alright then off to the store then back to programming the tracker
[06:28] <Pavix> fun fun
[06:28] <Pavix> how was Bf3
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[06:33] <MLow> it was GREAT
[06:33] <MLow> sorry for late response cat shut net off
[06:34] <Pavix> No problem, I'm just killing time stumbling
[06:34] <MLow> stumbling drunk orrr??
[06:34] <Pavix> www.stumbleupon.com
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[06:40] <MLow> that seems pretty zzzz
[06:42] <Pavix> Its a site that takes your basic interests, shows you content from those interests, then you can either thumbs up, like, or thumbs down, dislike the page. Based on your ratings it either shows you more or less of that type of content. Without stumble I'd of never found out about the HP tablet firesale. Of course I found out 3 days late but still FB, G+, Twitter were all quiet about it
[06:43] <MLow> i found out of slickdeals.net
[06:44] <Pavix> I stay away from slickdeals, mainly because some of the stuff has MIR which I hate with a firey passion.
[06:48] <MLow> its labled mir if it does just do an exclude search with mir
[06:49] <Pavix> Or I can goto newegg and avoid it altogether
[06:57] <MLow> newegg actually has some good deals sometimes but i got a free shoprunner account checking out slickdeals
[06:57] <Pavix> Newegg honors shoprunner as well. Usually 2 day free shipping
[06:57] <Pavix> Did you play the campaign on Bf3 or just MP?
[06:58] <MLow> mostly mp but i am working at the single player
[06:58] <MLow> and yes i shop newegg a good bit
[06:58] <Pavix> I got about halfway through SP, then my SSD panic locked. Got so disappointed I never reinstalled it
[06:58] <Pavix> Not that it's the games fault
[06:58] <Pavix> I didn't reinstall skyrim either
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[07:34] <MLow> blame the playa
[07:35] <Pavix> I think that EA intentionally hacked my machine because I finished MW3 SP before BF3's SP
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[07:49] <MLow> never played cod
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[08:02] <MLow> raspberry vodka is a joke
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[08:29] <MLow> mlowrie.com is almost working
[08:29] <MLow> who knew domains were such a PITA
[08:30] <Pavix> Hmm, looks like it's a CNAME instead of an a record
[08:30] <MLow> dude
[08:30] <MLow> tell me about it
[08:30] <MLow> anyways the guy who got the domain needs to learn his shit
[08:32] <MLow> is mlow.com available?
[08:32] <MLow> ffff
[08:32] <MLow> who has that!
[08:33] <MLow> aw man
[08:33] <MLow> hes sellings it
[08:33] <Pavix> Hmm, doesnt look registered to me. whois.net shows it's available
[08:34] <MLow> http://www.whois.net/whois/mlow.com'
[08:34] <MLow> http://www.whois.net/whois/mlow.com sorry
[08:34] <Pavix> oh, crap. I was looking at .net
[08:38] <MLow> lame
[08:38] <MLow> no one wants .net
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[09:10] Action: UpuWork- stabs UpuWork
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[09:23] <cuddykid> Upu / Upuwork: Randomskk spotted that I didn't have the ublox connected up to vcc!
[09:23] <UpuWork> ERC should have picked that up, I didn't check the schematic but yes thats a fail :)
[09:24] <cuddykid> nope ERC didn't :( I wonder what else is lurking.. lol
[09:24] <cuddykid> it would've been fixed fairly easy with a botch job once I had the board though
[09:25] <jonsowman> ERC will only have picked that up if the uBlox part has those pins marked as power pins
[09:25] <jonsowman> rather than general IO or whatever
[09:33] <UpuWork> ah ok
[09:33] <UpuWork> thats my fault then I need to fix the library
[09:33] <UpuWork> I thought i had done that actually but I'll check it this weekend
[09:34] <UpuWork> jonsowman whilst you're here the Kraken backup failed last night
[09:34] <UpuWork> lots of tar: /var/www/cusf-standalone-predictor/predict/preds/45a2fb7dd2791f216800d36ff8f9c6a3a3e6f935: File removed before we read it
[09:34] <UpuWork> sent 9857369631 bytes received 3881262 bytes 7473475.48 bytes/sec
[09:34] <UpuWork> total size is 19958978875 speedup is 2.02
[09:34] <UpuWork> rsync warning: some files vanished before they could be transferred (code 24) at main.c(1060) [sender=3.0.7]
[09:35] <jonsowman> interesting
[09:35] <jonsowman> wonder what happened there...
[09:37] <jonsowman> i wonder if the cron script to delete old GFS and predictions was running at the same time
[09:42] <jonsowman> UpuWork: jon jon 476 2012-02-15 01:10 prune-predictions-cronjob.sh*
[09:42] <jonsowman> pretty sure they were running at the same time which broke things
[09:43] <jonsowman> i've got to dash out now but i'll fix it later
[09:43] <jonsowman> thanks for letting me know
[09:52] <UpuWork> nps
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[10:18] <eroomde> morning
[10:18] <daveake> moaning
[10:18] <navrac> morning
[10:19] <navrac> did protopic replace you rfm22b's dave?
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[10:20] <daveake> Yes, got the replacement yesterday
[10:20] <navrac> ah well maybe today then for me
[10:20] <daveake> Should be ... they told me they were expecting stock Monday
[10:21] <daveake> I also ordered another one plus some other bits to replace the salt-damaged stuff from my last launch
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[10:21] <eroomde> shalty
[10:21] <navrac> after joking about flipping components by mistake in eagle - i discovered my mkIII pcb has one of the rfm's bacwards on it :=(
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[10:21] <daveake> tsk :)
[10:22] <navrac> I desoldered it and lost some tracks on the pcb and on the rfm, back to stage 1 sadly
[10:22] <daveake> I need to do a quick range test on the rfm I got back - I think it's lower power than before, but I'm not sure. If so I'll replace it. When winds are favourable I'll do a pico launch with that tracker
[10:22] <eroomde> navrac: i do that often
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[10:23] <eroomde> or design a part from a datasheet as a mirror image
[10:23] <daveake> So easy to do
[10:23] <daveake> e.g. I connected up a backup battery to a USB line on the FSA03 instead of the correct pin
[10:23] <navrac> I've got to go to spain for 10 days next week and I want to get the board finished so I can experiment with the uplink stuff whilst im there doing nothing
[10:24] <daveake> Which explained why it didn't help cold startup one iota
[10:24] <eroomde> navrac: what does your uplink design look like?
[10:24] <navrac> I thought I'd rotated it by 180 degrees on the board - but discovered somehow i'd flipped it
[10:25] <navrac> its 2 rfm22b's
[10:25] <gonzo_> you uplinking using a low power tx ?
[10:26] <navrac> one is running in rfm packet mode as the receiver into a 5/8ths whip on 458Mhz remote control band and the other is a standard rtty downlink. at the base station its an rfm22b in the remote control band into a yagi giving me a 100mW eirp output
[10:27] <gonzo_> what's the data mode/rate? Or is that secret at the mo?
[10:27] <navrac> the complex bit is the channel changing stuff as I expect to pick up loads of interference from the ground
[10:28] <griffonbot> Received email: Ed Moore "Re: [UKHAS] habitat upload totals"
[10:28] <gonzo_> if you are freq agile, it's worth having a chan in the 70cm AR band, as you could get other stations to hit it with a huge signal from a full licence
[10:29] <navrac> well I wanted 256 baud - but I cant get the rfm's to do less than 512
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[10:29] <navrac> The manual says it will do 128bps but I cant get it to work, I'm going to do a pico launch trial when I get back from spain
[10:29] <gonzo_> a few kW of eirp
[10:29] <navrac> yes but its not legal to tx to a non licensed recipient
[10:29] <gonzo_> is that straight FSK? What's the shift?
[10:29] <Darkside> hehehehe
[10:30] <Darkside> just saw the flights piechart
[10:30] <navrac> FSK - I've been playing with everything fro 1K to 40K
[10:30] <eroomde> gonzo_: i think that *technically* you are not allowed to use your license to uplink to balloons
[10:30] <eroomde> if you arebeing strict about the interpretation of the license
[10:30] <gonzo_> but remote controling is legal and what's to say that the HAB does not for that instant become the remote device of the licencee
[10:30] <Darkside> lol horus is over 50% of all flight sentences in teh database
[10:31] <eroomde> gonzo_: remote control of ham radio equipment is legal
[10:31] <eroomde> like a repeater
[10:31] <Darkside> navrac: i couldnt get my RFM22B to do 128 baud either
[10:31] <Darkside> lol eroomde really?
[10:31] <cuddykid> UpuWork: are all the 'dimension' warnings ok? I guess so, if not sarantel couldn't be on edge
[10:31] <Darkside> in australia its allowed
[10:31] <eroomde> but it's not a general purpose license to enable you to remote control anything
[10:31] <navrac> oh I'm glad it wasnt just me having the problem darkside
[10:31] <Darkside> navrac: though admittedly i havent played around much yet
[10:32] <gonzo_> I'll read again, but I thought it just said remote control
[10:32] <Darkside> navrac: theres a 'direct' mode on them that i need to play with
[10:32] <navrac> I looked at the direct mode too - but the packet stuff is rather good when there will be lots of interference about
[10:32] <eroomde> gonzo_: me too
[10:32] <eroomde> but it doesn't
[10:33] <gonzo_> there is a specific situation with controling a station, ie an inhouse repeater. Will re-read and see if there are any loopholes
[10:33] <eroomde> we used our licenses to do balloon uplinks before
[10:33] <eroomde> 40W down a yagi
[10:33] <eroomde> and i'm sure no one would notice
[10:33] <eroomde> but technically it's a bit cheeky
[10:33] <eroomde> well, technically it's not allowed
[10:33] <eroomde> rather than being merely a bit cheeky
[10:33] <navrac> we;; I did the path ca;culations and 80km should be possible with 1% packet loss
[10:34] <gonzo_> then the hab becomes an SWL that just happens to be listening on an AR-AR transmoission
[10:34] <gonzo_> (I am generally cheeky)
[10:35] <navrac> and a healthy fade margin. But with the receiver that high i think I'm going to need a lot of channels. Anyway I havent got a licence so thats out for me
[10:35] <cuddykid> eroomde: do you know what the error 'drill distance' means in eagle DRC checks?
[10:35] <navrac> but if anyone has an rfm and a bit of wire I will give out the code to allow people to try to uplink
[10:35] <cuddykid> http://i.imgur.com/uYpkV.png is the problem
[10:36] <navrac> drill bigger than pad?
[10:36] <eroomde> cuddykid: yes
[10:36] <eroomde> i think you might have something like a via on top of a pad
[10:36] <eroomde> yeah it's a bit confused by the track. it'll be fine but you could rip it up and route it again
[10:37] <cuddykid> ahh ok, thanks :)
[10:37] <eroomde> the one to the southwest of the problem pad is what it should look like
[10:37] <eroomde> no little orphaned bits of track
[10:37] <eroomde> and the via should be insrted automatically rather than m,anually
[10:38] <cuddykid> thanks, got to dash, will finish it up later :D
[10:39] <navrac> is there any way from the spacenear.us data to see who listened to a specific flight? Since a pico flight doesnt go very high I was trying to work out what sort of range you can get at those altitudes
[10:41] <daveake> Like http://habitat.habhub.org/stats/ you mean?
[10:42] <daveake> Click on Flight List then choose the flight
[10:43] <navrac> nead to find a pico launch that worked
[10:43] <daveake> Pass. So far they've not been near me so I don't recall any
[10:44] <daveake> When the winds return to normal I'll launch one
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[10:44] <eroomde> daveake: am putting together a fixed listenign station
[10:44] <eroomde> my house in oxford is not much use
[10:44] <navrac> sadly i cant work out the positions relative to the balloon as i dont know its path. nevermind - I guess its suck it and see time
[10:44] <eroomde> but work is perfect
[10:44] <daveake> That will help :)
[10:44] <eroomde> and there's already a bit mast atop one of the old firing bays
[10:45] <navrac> im at the bottom of a valley here so range is a little limited
[10:45] <eroomde> also i'm up higher here than in oxford
[10:45] <gonzo_> can you do remore tuning?
[10:45] <daveake> I'm planning on using one of Steve's foil balloons for lift together with my Buzz Lightyear shaped balloon for fun.
[10:45] <eroomde> with a very good horizon all round
[10:45] <eroomde> in the east direction there's a hell that gets to maybe 3 degrees
[10:45] <eroomde> otherwise it's pretty flat all the way round
[10:46] <daveake> damn hells
[10:46] <eroomde> gonzo_: i'll have remote tuning yes
[10:46] <eroomde> it'll be on t'internet
[10:46] <eroomde> if dl-fldigi will compile on the raspberry pi then i'll be using that
[10:46] <daveake> I'm getting an FT790 this week, and I'll get that set up for remote access
[10:46] <navrac> I've got a friend up the hill with a nice big mast - I'll have to see if I can persuade him to let me remote control it
[10:47] <gonzo_> my qth is in a hole, poss 10deg in the worst dir. But it's still useable. Tend to lose signals due to curvature of earth, rather than local horison
[10:47] <navrac> how do you remote tune the ft790?
[10:47] <Darkside> CAT
[10:47] <eroomde> navrac: it can be done relatively
[10:47] <gonzo_> a mast and clear horison would help get the radar range up though
[10:47] <eroomde> but i don't think you can set it to an absolute freq
[10:47] <Darkside> eroomde: oh?
[10:47] <eroomde> but you can say 'up a bit' and 'down a bit'
[10:48] <gonzo_> mike buttons?
[10:48] <eroomde> this is based on a flakey recollection from a few years ago
[10:48] <eroomde> it's very much pre ci-v or whatever the standard is now
[10:48] <griffonbot> Received email: Neil Baker "Re: [UKHAS] Re: launching in UK"
[10:48] <gonzo_> must be a mk2, as the mk1 had no i/f
[10:49] <daveake> In that case I won't be doing it :p
[10:49] Action: daveake checks box for stepper motors
[10:49] <eroomde> i think jcoxon did some vunder-bodgen a few years ago
[10:49] <Upu> +1 for living on a hill btw :)
[10:49] <gonzo_> you could use the mike up.down buttons
[10:50] <eroomde> an arduino powering a servo attached to the tune dial
[10:50] <gonzo_> to step in 1khz steps
[10:50] <eroomde> and a webcam looking at the lcd display
[10:50] <daveake> lol
[10:50] <eroomde> and a web interface to run it all
[10:50] <daveake> luvvit
[10:50] <Upu> is there more to tracking than living on a hill eroomde ?
[10:50] <Darkside> eroomde: theres a Yaesu FRG-8800 at uni which has CAT
[10:50] <gonzo_> and poss cut into the mem recall to give you a datum/home position
[10:50] <Darkside> and thats from like 1980 something
[10:50] <eroomde> Upu: well, an antenna helps
[10:51] <Upu> oh one of those ? :)
[10:51] <daveake> so that's where I've been going wrong
[10:52] <gonzo_> an alternative idea: The FT790 is oprobably a 10.7meg IF. If you brought that out into a simple SDR, like a softrock. You would get 50kHz or so of spectrom
[10:52] <gonzo_> so fix tune the yaesu and do the fine tune with sdr
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[10:52] <eroomde> m0jcu also does well and he is in a nice high place. not a hill, but just quite high above sea level in an otherwise flat area
[10:52] <Darkside> gonzo_: thats a good idea actually
[10:53] <eroomde> yeah very
[10:53] <eroomde> you get all the analogue goodness of the old yeasu
[10:55] <navrac> http://www.g6lvb.com/satellite_passband_frequency_tra.htm
[10:56] <fsphil> jcoxon controlled an ft790 through the mic port -- it has pins for raising and lowering the frequency in steps
[10:56] <daveake> Ooer, easy peasy :)
[10:56] <daveake> I shall investigate this weekend, cheers all.
[10:56] <fsphil> that coupled with a webcam to see the current frequency :)
[10:56] <fsphil> all very high tech :)
[10:56] <gonzo_> if you were brave, you could hack the mem select switch and use that to select the centre freq
[10:57] <fsphil> my own remote tuny thing: http://spooky.sanslogic.co.uk/radio.php
[10:57] <gonzo_> we used to use those mike stepping adjusts to copmpensate for doppler shifts on the old AMSAT satellites
[10:58] <navrac> hmm theres an ft790 mkI on ebay for £100 buy it now.
[10:58] <fsphil> that's an ex-hab radio too
[10:58] <eroomde> that's a good price
[10:59] <daveake> It is
[10:59] <eroomde> and it's a very good radio
[10:59] <eroomde> as sensitive as any of the modern yeasus
[10:59] <Darkside> if you can find an Icom IC-R10 get one of those
[10:59] <Darkside> great all mode handheld scanner, and can be CI-V controlled
[10:59] <eroomde> the aor8000 is good for same too
[11:00] <Darkside> the AOR is probably better
[11:00] <gonzo_> they are a bit longh in the tooth now, but their one big advantage is, they have ridiculously low current draw
[11:00] <gonzo_> (The ft790 I mean)
[11:00] <eroomde> and ssb
[11:01] <fsphil> the ft790 looks good
[11:01] <gonzo_> Well that's a given
[11:01] <fsphil> like a proper radio
[11:01] <eroomde> oh i thought we were still talking about scanners
[11:01] <Darkside> lol
[11:01] <Darkside> hey, we use Icom IC-706's in 2 of our chase vehicles
[11:01] <Darkside> the other one has about 5 receivers tyo choose from
[11:01] <gonzo_> actually, you could add a softrock to any radio with the right IF. So an FM scanner becomes an SSB rx.
[11:02] <Darkside> IC-R10, FT-817, FT-857, IC-R7000, AOR5000
[11:02] <gonzo_> Though the LO noise could be an issue with real crap scanners
[11:02] <Darkside> wait, not an AOR5000, irs something else...
[11:02] <Darkside> gonzo_: Icom IC-R7000
[11:02] <Darkside> we take the IF out from that into a SDR-IQ
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[11:02] <Darkside> so we have a 190KHz panadapter for it
[11:02] <Darkside> its very useful
[11:03] <eroomde> just a happy asside cos it's wednesday
[11:03] <eroomde> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmrPnAIJBo8&feature=related
[11:03] <eroomde> just watch from 11.40
[11:03] <eroomde> bernstein the condustor is clearly having the time of his life
[11:03] <gonzo_> I used to use a softrock with my old r7000 too. Now have an sdriq on the aor5000 and the Ft847
[11:03] <eroomde> that's a good day at work if you're a musician
[11:03] <Darkside> gonzo_: you have an aor5000?
[11:03] <Darkside> those things are AWESOME.
[11:04] <gonzo_> yep, I'm impressed with it
[11:04] <Darkside> i saw one at bath uni, had good fun playing with the filters
[11:04] <Darkside> 200KHz RX filter!?
[11:04] <gonzo_> Also I have the funcube dongle on the 63meg IF of the FT817. Works REALLY well
[11:04] <gonzo_> On the aor5000 IF out it';s soemthing like 5meg wide
[11:04] <eroomde> what's the noise performance like?
[11:05] <gonzo_> pree filters
[11:05] <gonzo_> don't seem bad at all, for my reqs
[11:05] <Darkside> gonzo_: oh nice with the FT817 tap
[11:05] <Darkside> i was afraid of tapping any of my radios
[11:05] <gonzo_> a little drifty when you get up to 2.3ghz though
[11:06] <gonzo_> I have a gps locked ref, but not gotten around to connecting to the aor
[11:06] <Darkside> hehe
[11:06] <Darkside> cool
[11:06] <gonzo_> Darkside, I drill and butcher all the time
[11:06] <Darkside> i just don't want to desense my IC-7000
[11:06] <gonzo_> the Symek IFD into the Ft847 was the frightening one
[11:07] <eroomde> i think my ic-7000 will be off limits too
[11:07] <eroomde> save for unlocking
[11:08] <gonzo_> I took the tap off the 817 on the RX mixer. It does load it down a little, but does not degrade the snr, just turn up the af gain
[11:08] <Darkside> eroomde: yeah i've done that already
[11:08] <gonzo_> some pwople tap the 817 off the main mixer, but I worried that that would affect TX
[11:08] <navrac> daveake - looks like you picked up xaben at 3000metres - thats pretty good
[11:09] <daveake> Yeah, previously I haven't had any data (let alone a complete sentence) below 4000m I think
[11:10] <daveake> We're quite high up here but so are some trees in the way, so extra height in the antenna helps
[11:10] <Darkside> i was surprised
[11:10] <Darkside> one of the most prolific receivers for horus is a guy that lives about 500km south of here
[11:11] <Darkside> he does have some ridiculous yagi antenna though
[11:11] <daveake> This was a compact yagi on a glassfibre pole
[11:11] <daveake> Getting a much better ali pole this week, and a collinear
[11:12] <Darkside> http://www.electric-web.org/ground_station_images/antenna.jpg
[11:12] <Darkside> thats the guys antenna
[11:12] <eroomde> f*ck
[11:12] <daveake> 'eck
[11:12] <eroomde> that's what killed phobos grunt
[11:12] <Darkside> lol
[11:12] <navrac> I got it at 1Km - but I was only 30miles away - could have probably got it earlier, but was a bit late setting up
[11:13] <navrac> dont think the misses would like that on the roof
[11:13] <Darkside> http://www.electric-web.org/tracking_antenna_images/fig5.jpg
[11:13] <Darkside> that is just ridiculous
[11:14] <Darkside> lol
[11:14] <daveake> Nope! I'll get away with just putting a temporary aerial/pole up on launch days
[11:14] <gonzo_> looks like a 2mtr helix. Mad
[11:14] <Darkside> he was the one getting Horus 16 when it was like 10 degrees below the horizon
[11:14] <Darkside> but that was ducting too
[11:14] <eroomde> sporadic E
[11:15] <eroomde> that became a meme at CUSF one summer
[11:15] <eroomde> when something improbably happened, it must have been because of Sporadic E
[11:15] <Darkside> haha
[11:15] <eroomde> but actually we do see it every so often
[11:16] <eroomde> usually once a payload goes over geometric horizon and we loose reception
[11:16] <eroomde> then 5 minutes later it's back very clearly
[11:17] <Darkside> thats ducting
[11:18] <Darkside> not sporadic E
[11:18] <Darkside> silly
[11:18] <eroomde> no, it must have been sporadic E
[11:18] <fsphil> sporadic E is if someone in spain receives it :)
[11:18] <eroomde> you see
[11:19] <fsphil> but yea, I see the fading and returning too now that you mention it
[11:19] <eroomde> sporadic E
[11:19] <fsphil> often get a few more strings before it disappears completely
[11:20] <eroomde> i do find HF a bit scary
[11:20] <fsphil> I always blamed an antenna null, but ducting would probably explain it better
[11:20] <eroomde> i remember doing an HF test at EARS with rocketboy, for a trans-atlantic
[11:20] <eroomde> we ran a dipole from a tethered balloon, about 20m off the ground
[11:21] <eroomde> i drove back to cambridge (about 10miles) and tried to see if i could pick it up from there
[11:21] <eroomde> not a sausage
[11:21] <eroomde> phoned jcoxon to see if he could hear it in london (50 miles)
[11:21] <eroomde> not a sausage
[11:21] <gonzo_> ground wave does not travel that well
[11:21] <eroomde> went on to #hamradio and someone in germanny had it 9&5
[11:23] <Darkside> holy fuck
[11:23] <Darkside> the IC-7000 has 2 blackfin processors in it
[11:23] <eroomde> yes it does
[11:23] <eroomde> cool huh
[11:23] <Darkside> yeah
[11:24] <eroomde> but it can still only do rtty decoding with a limited range of paramaters
[11:24] <eroomde> ie baudot only
[11:24] <Darkside> now i want to rip the firmware out
[11:24] <eroomde> which sucks balls
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[11:24] <Darkside> PUT LINUX ON IT
[11:24] <Darkside> lol
[11:24] <Darkside> this thing could so totally run linux
[11:24] <eroomde> an open ic7000 equivalent would be pretty cool
[11:24] <eroomde> but i guess we're already jumping the curve with sdr
[11:24] <Darkside> yeah
[11:26] <Darkside> bahaha
[11:26] <eroomde> the blackfins are nice though
[11:26] <Darkside> its a bloody blackfin with a 96KHz audio codec
[11:26] <eroomde> but i guess nowadays you can get the same FP performance from a $10 cortex m4
[11:27] <fsphil> linux on a rig? that would be amazing
[11:27] <Darkside> im actually not sure if it has enough rom
[11:27] <Darkside> im trying to work out what memory it has onboard
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[11:27] <fsphil> ram too might be limited
[11:29] <natrium42> your ram goes to college
[11:29] <Darkside> yeah fsphil
[11:29] <Darkside> 84kb of ram
[11:29] <fsphil> eek
[11:30] <fsphil> no linux, but still enough to do interesting things
[11:30] <Darkside> ok there is flash memory in there
[11:30] <daveake> Speaking of RAM, if anyone wants a 1GB laptop/netbook memory module FOC just holler. Got a spare pulled from a netbook.
[11:30] <Darkside> ok it has more ram too
[11:30] <Darkside> 1mbit of it
[11:31] <Darkside> lol
[11:31] <Darkside> thats so cool
[11:31] <natrium42> Darkside: uh, sure, me 12 years ago
[11:31] <fsphil> 128k
[11:32] <eroomde> the cortex m4 on this £8 discovery board has 1Mb of flash
[11:32] <eroomde> and 192kb of ram
[11:32] <eroomde> and it has a floating unit
[11:32] <eroomde> and the peripherals includes ponies and a beer keg
[11:32] <Darkside> woo ponies
[11:33] <fsphil> central pony unit?
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[11:33] <natrium42> won't the clock be a stable?
[11:35] <eroomde> you'd better hope so
[11:35] <eroomde> because ponies aren't bred for race conditions
[11:36] <fsphil> can they jump through an infinite hoop?
[11:36] <daveake> You're thinking of Unicorns
[11:37] <eroomde> something about (hay)stacks
[11:37] <eroomde> right let's abandon this line of punquiry
[11:38] Action: Laurenceb is reading about thumb2 asm
[11:38] <fsphil> yea, hooves knows where it would end
[11:38] <natrium42> well, it will be hoof2 in our case
[11:41] <Darkside> so i figured out where to take the 1st IF tap on the IC-7000
[11:41] <Darkside> Q502
[11:50] <Laurenceb> http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.jsp?topic=/com.arm.doc.dui0553a/BABCAEDD.html
[11:50] <Laurenceb> particularly epic instruction imo
[11:51] <Laurenceb> you can grab a bunch of 32bit words and chuck them into registers, and increment the address pointer at the same time
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[11:56] <SpeedEvil> neat
[11:57] <Laurenceb> nice ofr SDR gps
[11:57] <Laurenceb> *for
[11:57] <eroomde> there are some really serious instructions in the new core
[11:58] <eroomde> i mean it really is up there with the kind of digital signal controllers that TI would sell you for £150 and would consume 5W, just 5 years ago
[11:58] <Laurenceb> actually that instruction makes my SDR code twice as fast
[11:58] <Laurenceb> so 16channels at 4Msps is possible
[11:59] <Laurenceb> im almost tempted to do this
[11:59] <SpeedEvil> Go for it!
[11:59] <Laurenceb> eroomde: the trick for making gps work on F4 is to use 1Byte/sample, not 1 bit
[11:59] <SpeedEvil> It would make possible lots of fun neatness
[11:59] <eroomde> Laurenceb: a flying sdr would fill a big gap
[11:59] <Laurenceb> as countones is so slow
[12:00] <eroomde> i think it's probably the best shot we have of uplinks that are strictly legal
[12:00] <eroomde> but still with a useful rate
[12:00] <eroomde> Laurenceb: i don't understand
[12:00] <SpeedEvil> You mean to be able to discipline absolutely?
[12:00] <eroomde> do you mean pack all the 1 bit samples into more native data structures?
[12:00] <SpeedEvil> Oh - right - I see
[12:00] <Laurenceb> hallams GPS on Blackfin used 1bit/sample
[12:00] <Laurenceb> but that had hardware countones
[12:00] <Laurenceb> on F4 it looks like 1byte/sample is way faster
[12:01] <Laurenceb> yes
[12:01] <eroomde> it easily fit on a blackfin though i think
[12:01] <Laurenceb> yes
[12:01] <eroomde> i mean, the correlation and tracking ran at over 80 times real time on a single core of my core2duo 2.1ghx laptop
[12:01] <Laurenceb> heh ~same here
[12:02] <Laurenceb> well, 1complex sample/byte
[12:02] <Laurenceb> so two nibbles - real and complex
[12:02] <Laurenceb> then you dont have to worry about carrier very often
[12:03] <Laurenceb> only at ~100KHz does the IQ integration bin get "rotated"
[12:03] <Laurenceb> and that can be done very neatly using some of the dsp instructions
[12:03] <eroomde> so you think you can fit the entire thing on then?
[12:03] <Laurenceb> yes
[12:03] <Laurenceb> i only have scetchy asm on paper atm tho
[12:04] <eroomde> you gots enough rams?
[12:04] <eroomde> well actually you've got loads
[12:04] <Laurenceb> yes - m2m dma helps a lot
[12:04] <Laurenceb> m2m dma each prn code into ram with the correct offset before the asm function runs on that sat
[12:05] <Laurenceb> then it just needs to be fetched from ram along with the complex signal and xored
[12:05] <eroomde> yes the mdas in general are pretty astounding
[12:05] <eroomde> dmas*
[12:05] <Laurenceb> so each prn in flash repeated twice
[12:06] <Laurenceb> so you can have an arbitrary offset
[12:06] <Laurenceb> and as its one byte/sample the dma handles the prn alignment
[12:06] <eroomde> i'm doing something atm where there are 200khz 16bit adc samples that need to be got it, LPF'd, packed up and sent over ethernet
[12:06] <Laurenceb> hardcore
[12:07] <eroomde> and interfacing the adc's parallel interface to the external memory bus and using dma (with the useful non incrementing address feature) is a win
[12:07] <eroomde> m2m
[12:07] <Laurenceb> interesting
[12:09] <eroomde> oh btw that's 200khz on each of 8 channels
[12:09] <eroomde> so that's quite a meaty data throughput
[12:10] <eroomde> not entirely sure yet if it will be able to do much FIR onboard. or at least, enough to meet the current spec
[12:10] <SpeedEvil> Why m2m DMA, not simply modify the ASM?
[12:11] <eroomde> it needs to end up in ram anyway
[12:11] <eroomde> as the adc looks like memory but it isn't
[12:11] <eroomde> and there are several things done to the data before they get packed up and shipped out
[12:12] <SpeedEvil> I meant Laurenceb
[12:12] <SpeedEvil> If you're moving the satellite signal around before processing for each PRN
[12:12] <SpeedEvil> Or is it just fast enough that it's not an issue
[12:14] <Laurenceb> erm cuz asm uses the cpu
[12:15] <Laurenceb> oh - why not load direct from flash?
[12:15] <Laurenceb> because then you have issues with the 32bit locations being two clks to load from flash
[12:16] cuddykid (~acudworth@128.243.253.217) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[12:16] <Laurenceb> due to the F_cpu/4 underclocked flash with 64bit width
[12:16] cuddykid (~acudworth@128.243.253.217) joined #highaltitude.
[12:17] <Laurenceb> having said that ART accelerator is supposed to help this, but im not sure if itd make back all the potential slowdown if you are loading loads of 32bit addresses
[12:17] <Darkside> i'm working on what may be a useful SDR frontend eroomde Laurenceb
[12:18] <Darkside> based around a LT5517 quadrature demodulator
[12:18] <Laurenceb> ah nice
[12:19] <Darkside> the fun part with that is providing a LO
[12:19] <Laurenceb> the DVBT frontends might actually work you know
[12:19] <Laurenceb> but it seems to be NDA hell
[12:19] <Darkside> yeah this is what i found
[12:19] <Darkside> theres a company called mirics that make one that does HF
[12:19] <Darkside> but they wont give me any info on it
[12:19] <eroomde> Darkside: why fun?
[12:19] <eroomde> what kinda spec?
[12:19] <Darkside> well i need 2xLO
[12:19] <Darkside> and sine
[12:20] <Darkside> easy to do for HF, just use a DDS
[12:20] <Darkside> for 70cm, its a bit more of a pain
[12:20] <Darkside> atm i'm planning on Si570 + sharp LPF
[12:20] <Laurenceb> ntx2 :P
[12:20] <Darkside> Laurenceb: 2xLO
[12:20] <Laurenceb> i was joking
[12:20] <Darkside> oh man
[12:20] <Darkside> 868MHz
[12:20] <Darkside> :D
[12:20] <gonzo_> some people are using reverse dds for hogher freqs
[12:20] <Laurenceb> or really fast ADC and an fpga
[12:20] <Darkside> yeah one option is to take BPF a DDSs alias frequencies
[12:21] <Laurenceb> or.... cc1020
[12:21] Action: Laurenceb runs
[12:21] <Darkside> Laurenceb: die
[12:21] <Darkside> anyway]
[12:21] <Darkside> i've got a AD9851 arduino shield for the HF stuff
[12:21] <Laurenceb> *shrug* works for me
[12:21] <Darkside> though that mixer doesn't work below 10MHz
[12:21] <Laurenceb> unless you want really wideband
[12:21] <Darkside> like, theres some internal limitation in it
[12:21] <eroomde> i made up a 70cm source by bpf a higher image of a DDS
[12:21] <eroomde> worked ok
[12:21] <Darkside> its got this incredibly sharp dropoff at 9.5MHz
[12:22] <eroomde> though was 13dB lower than the main
[12:22] <Darkside> yeah
[12:22] <eroomde> which is still workable
[12:22] <Darkside> eroomde: though i need 2x70cm
[12:22] <Darkside> but i think its doable
[12:22] <gonzo_> use the UHF vco as the dds clocking ref and feed the lower freq xtal ref in as the rf freq
[12:22] <eroomde> why 2?
[12:22] <Darkside> the other thing is the chip does need a LNA in front
[12:22] <eroomde> i&q?
[12:22] <Darkside> eroomde: by 2xLO i mean it needs 2xFlo
[12:22] <Laurenceb> i use RFMD LNAs on my cc1020 sdr
[12:22] <eroomde> oh i see sorry
[12:23] <gonzo_> a few of the uk microwave beacons use that as a source
[12:23] <Darkside> as its a quadrature demodulator that has an internal divide by 2
[12:23] <Darkside> you know, you have a very valid point on using something like a cc1020 as a LO source
[12:23] <Laurenceb> heh
[12:23] <Darkside> i only need -10dBm to 0dBm of LO drive
[12:23] <Darkside> how clean is the output of those things
[12:23] <eroomde> so basically you want one really good stable, lower phase noise oscillator somewhere
[12:24] <eroomde> then an army of PLL's to get all the freqs you need off of that
[12:24] <Laurenceb> cc1020 will be way more stable than si4432
[12:24] <Darkside> eroomde: yeah, you'd have some stable reference source
[12:24] <Laurenceb> silabs uses pwm style output
[12:24] <Darkside> i mean, a TCXO would do
[12:24] <Laurenceb> then filtering
[12:24] <Darkside> grrg
[12:24] <Laurenceb> chipcon is much cleaner
[12:24] <eroomde> might aswell use a gps discilpilined oscilator if you want to do it right :)
[12:24] <Darkside> i was planning on using a Si570 and a filter bank
[12:25] <Darkside> but fffffffff filter bank is going to be a bitch
[12:25] <Laurenceb> id be careful with silabs
[12:25] <Darkside> i was basically going to target 2 bands - 2m and 70cm lol
[12:25] <Darkside> so id only need 2 filters
[12:26] <Darkside> hrmm
[12:26] <Darkside> no, cc1020 doesnt have the range i need
[12:26] <Darkside> i really need about 150MHz to 1GHz
[12:26] <Laurenceb> thats the problem
[12:27] <Darkside> yeah
[12:27] <Darkside> its damn hard to do
[12:27] <Laurenceb> i tried to design something like this in 2009
[12:27] <Laurenceb> and gave up
[12:27] <eroomde> super mega ultra mega super ADC
[12:27] <Laurenceb> funcube seems to have come to closest to something that does it well
[12:27] <Laurenceb> and they use DVBT
[12:27] <eroomde> FLGA with big FIR that you can reginfigure the tap weights on the fly
[12:27] <Darkside> Laurenceb: im talking only LO here
[12:27] <Darkside> i have the mixer sorted
[12:27] <Laurenceb> getting a clean frequency source was my issue
[12:27] <Darkside> ahh
[12:28] <Laurenceb> clan frequency and large frequency range
[12:28] <Darkside> this leads me back to my original idea - Si570 or similar + filter bank
[12:28] <Laurenceb> pick any one
[12:28] <Laurenceb> :P
[12:28] <Darkside> like, pick out a few target bands, and make up some really nice filters for each one
[12:28] <eroomde> a really good LO
[12:28] <eroomde> gps disclipined
[12:28] <Darkside> i just haev to get rid of the first harmonic
[12:28] <eroomde> a big pll
[12:28] <Laurenceb> funcube has a filter bank on the front
[12:28] <eroomde> then a fractional-n
[12:28] <Darkside> eroomde: and a filter bank again
[12:28] <Laurenceb> and then a messy LO
[12:28] <Darkside> Laurenceb: yeah but its all in the bloody IC
[12:28] <Laurenceb> but the filter bank apparently works ok
[12:29] <Darkside> that elonics chip is insane
[12:29] <Darkside> but its frontend is shithouse
[12:29] <Laurenceb> yes
[12:29] <Darkside> i'm betting the IIP3 is negative
[12:29] <Laurenceb> it does work suprisingly well
[12:29] <Laurenceb> for what it does
[12:29] <SpeedEvil> You can get SAW filters for 433 that aren't too bad at all
[12:29] <Laurenceb> which should be impossible
[12:29] <Laurenceb> they basically use a squarewave as the LO
[12:29] <Darkside> Laurenceb: its not impossible
[12:30] <Randomskk> NTX2 has a 433 SAW filter
[12:30] <Darkside> yeah but the chip has all the pll stuff internal
[12:30] <Darkside> you can get 433MHz SAW filters off farnell
[12:30] <Darkside> i have a few of them in a bag somewhere
[12:30] <Laurenceb> it has pll then some sort of divider
[12:30] <Laurenceb> thats how they get the frequency range
[12:30] <Darkside> i was planning on making a filter + LNA thing for the FCD
[12:30] <Darkside> but never got around to doing it
[12:30] <Laurenceb> and i cant see how thats not going to output a square wave
[12:31] <Darkside> Laurenceb: ahh but some of the mixers acrtually *use* square waves
[12:31] <Darkside> havent you seen how the softrocks work?
[12:31] <Laurenceb> so it must be down to the input filter bank to take out all the hardmonics
[12:31] <Laurenceb> yes
[12:31] <Laurenceb> *harmonics
[12:31] <Darkside> also did you see osmocom are making a sdr
[12:32] <Darkside> with the same fucking frontend
[12:32] <Laurenceb> heh
[12:32] <Darkside> http://sdr.osmocom.org/trac/attachment/wiki/WikiStart/osmosdr.jpg
[12:32] <SpeedEvil> I wonder about using a square wave approximation
[12:32] <Darkside> i saw that and went "are you FUCKING KIDDING ME"
[12:32] <Laurenceb> ADC+fpga starts to look attractive
[12:32] <Darkside> not another freaking elonics board
[12:32] <SpeedEvil> That is - you feed it a squarewave
[12:32] <Laurenceb> there are some good adcs
[12:32] <Darkside> this one will have more RX bandwidth
[12:32] <Darkside> Laurenceb: we have that at uni already
[12:32] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: then you have a bazillion harmonics
[12:33] <Darkside> some ridiculous 16-bit LT ADC and an opal kelly FPGA board
[12:33] <Laurenceb> that all get demodulated by the mixer
[12:33] <SpeedEvil> but it's not a squarewave, it's a digital signal designed to have miniumum power below the (say) nth harmonic
[12:33] <Laurenceb> yeah you need a silly number of bits :/
[12:33] <Darkside> 100MHz sample rate, but the sample and hold is such that you can get the aliases above that
[12:33] <Darkside> subsampling
[12:33] <Laurenceb> yeah
[12:33] <Darkside> they use it for DAB research
[12:33] <Darkside> but i think it can go higher
[12:34] <Laurenceb> i keep meaning to do that for timesignals on avr
[12:34] <Darkside> (i was using it on HF)
[12:34] <Laurenceb> - only orders of mag slower :P
[12:34] <Laurenceb> ~1Ksps, and VCXO driving the avr
[12:34] <Darkside> problem with that SDR is its a USB opal kelly
[12:34] <Darkside> so you only get samples
[12:34] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: That would be an interesting first project for a SDR GPS. Simply a time standard.
[12:34] <SpeedEvil> time/freq
[12:34] <Darkside> well, you only get set frames
[12:34] <Laurenceb> i have all the parts - havent had time to make it
[12:35] <Laurenceb> attiny+ferrite rod+xtal filter
[12:35] <Laurenceb> has the advantage it works indoors
[12:36] <Darkside> anyway, that osmoSDR thing
[12:36] <Darkside> i dont know how they can open source the entire thing
[12:36] <Darkside> i'm sure they had to sign an NDA or something to get access to teh elonics chip
[12:36] <eroomde> a big cavity with lots of little tubes in it
[12:36] <eroomde> oh wait
[12:36] <Darkside> what i *really* want to see is the elonics chips frontend specs
[12:36] <eroomde> hrm
[12:36] <eroomde> hmmdy hmm hmm
[12:37] <Darkside> like, what its IIP3 graph is like
[12:37] <SpeedEvil> Depending on the terms of the NDA, it may just say 'you can't give anyone the spec'
[12:37] <SpeedEvil> So a driver is fine
[12:37] <Darkside> if i could be bothered i'd measure the damn IIP3 myself
[12:37] <Laurenceb> i think someone did a quick test
[12:38] <Darkside> SpeedEvil: http://sdr.osmocom.org/trac/attachment/wiki/Hardware/USB-WideBand-RX%20-%20RF%26ADC.pdf
[12:38] <Laurenceb> with funcube+ntx2
[12:38] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[12:38] <Darkside> look, its the pinout for the elonics chip
[12:38] <Darkside> how the hell did they get away with that
[12:38] <SpeedEvil> Not reading NDA?
[12:38] <eroomde> this is not really practical for a cheapo product
[12:38] <eroomde> but
[12:38] <eroomde> a cavitily filters whose rods are controlled by linear actuators
[12:38] <eroomde> filter*
[12:39] <Laurenceb> hehe
[12:39] <SpeedEvil> A NDA has various terms.
[12:39] <eroomde> so you could have a continusously variable high-1 microwave filter
[12:39] <Darkside> eroomde: scary
[12:39] <eroomde> high-q*
[12:39] <eroomde> it would look a bit like a baby fission reactor too
[12:39] <eroomde> for extra goodness
[12:39] <Laurenceb> *cough* cc1020
[12:39] <SpeedEvil> It may in some cases be as literal as you can't show other people the datasheets, but be quiet on derived data
[12:40] <Laurenceb> actually - i need to get my cc1020 working with stm32
[12:40] <Laurenceb> i think i can improve the performance a lot
[12:41] <Laurenceb> atm it does the digital filtering onboard, and its not very nice
[12:41] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[12:41] <Laurenceb> if i could grab the data fast enough and turn off the digital filtering, then write some nicer dsp code, it should give better rejection
[12:42] <Laurenceb> i was limited by using atmega
[12:42] <SpeedEvil> Lots of dspy stuff on stm, true
[12:42] <Laurenceb> or just dump to pc over usb
[12:42] <Laurenceb> thats what i do atm
[12:42] <Laurenceb> then run over it with libsamplerate
[12:55] <eroomde> cool, so i just ate a scotch bonnet chilli that was in the fruit bowl at work
[12:55] <eroomde> thinking it was something else
[12:55] <Randomskk> oh nice
[12:55] <Randomskk> who leaves that in a fruit bowl
[12:55] <eroomde> about 30s so far
[12:56] <eroomde> a dick
[12:56] <Randomskk> is it like a wild party in your mouth, then?
[12:56] <Darkside> eroomde: bahahaha
[12:56] <Randomskk> (what did you think it was?)
[12:56] <eroomde> it's kicking in
[12:56] <Randomskk> quick, video your reaction
[12:56] <Randomskk> become a youtube sensation
[12:56] <daveake> :)
[12:56] <Laurenceb> oh dear
[12:56] <Laurenceb> you best be trolling
[12:57] <Darkside> uh oh
[12:57] <Darkside> this is going to be good
[12:57] <Darkside> i guess it kind of looks like a dried tomato or something
[12:59] <eroomde> there's no FUCKING MILK IN THE FRIDGE
[12:59] <eroomde> what the fuck?
[12:59] <eroomde> fuck
[12:59] <Laurenceb> hahaha
[12:59] <BrainDamage> eat bread
[12:59] <eroomde> ok
[12:59] <Laurenceb> happens to me all the time :(
[12:59] <Darkside> eroomde: keep up the running commentary
[12:59] <eroomde> i can't sorry
[12:59] <Darkside> this is great
[12:59] <eroomde> i've sweated through my jumper
[13:00] <eroomde> this is andy, ed's colleage
[13:00] <eroomde> he's suffering
[13:00] <BrainDamage> add some oil
[13:00] <BrainDamage> if you can
[13:00] <BrainDamage> to the bread
[13:01] <BrainDamage> it won't stop the burning sensation, but it'll prevent cross contamination a bit ( capsaicin moving between diff areas )
[13:01] <eroomde> right i'm back
[13:01] <eroomde> that was quite emotional
[13:02] <eroomde> gonna try and find a clean t-shirt from somewhere
[13:02] <daveake> Try very very hard to keep those fingers away from your eyes :)
[13:03] <Randomskk> or anywhere else on your body... I'd wash your hands :P
[13:03] <BrainDamage> multiple times even
[13:03] <daveake> yep
[13:05] <eroomde> ok, washed them about 4 or 5 times
[13:05] <eroomde> this is gonna be back with a vengeance tomorrow too
[13:05] <eroomde> bollocks
[13:06] <daveake> yes keep hands away from those too
[13:08] <BrainDamage> suggested movie: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102960/
[13:09] <daveake> suggested cartooon for eroomde http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6QQXrnqA8A
[13:11] <daveake> or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0APBemFGUdU
[13:12] <cuddykid> back from the mornings activities
[13:12] <cuddykid> bike stolen
[13:12] <cuddykid> but on the plus side - rfm22b arrived! lol
[13:12] <SpeedEvil> cuddykid: bastards!
[13:13] <cuddykid> SpeedEvil: yep! It was all chained up aswell, going to go and have a chat to security in a bit as there are cctv cameras pointing at the bike area
[13:13] <cuddykid> it's all insured anyway - thankfully
[13:13] <BrainDamage> make a bike tracker with the new module?
[13:13] <cuddykid> haha, now that's a good idea!!
[13:14] <SpeedEvil> Oooh.
[13:14] <cuddykid> it's probably daveake getting revenge :P lol
[13:14] <daveake> lol
[13:14] Action: SpeedEvil ponders the raspberry-pi, using the camera interface to stuff data into.
[13:14] <daveake> "Your bike is 500m away, 70 metres underground at a temperature of minus 127"
[13:14] <cuddykid> oh wow - the rfm22b is tiny! :O
[13:15] <cuddykid> my soldering skills (lack of) are really going to be put to the test
[13:15] <Darkside> pff
[13:15] <Darkside> thats not tiny
[13:15] <cuddykid> lol
[13:15] <daveake> pff indeed
[13:15] <daveake> I managed it and I'm blind
[13:15] <cuddykid> haha daveake
[13:15] <cuddykid> the tip of my soldering iron covers about 2 pads - guess I need a finer tip
[13:16] <zyp> good tips are essential
[13:16] <daveake> that's a good tip
[13:16] <eroomde> that's a good tip, thanks zyp
[13:16] <zyp> or rather, suited tips
[13:16] <eroomde> oh fuck
[13:16] <eroomde> too slow
[13:16] <zyp> I've got three tips for my iron, to suit different stuff
[13:17] <zyp> http://bin.jvnv.net/f/MQZGE.JPG
[13:17] <eroomde> wsd81?
[13:17] <zyp> yep
[13:17] <eroomde> that's my main one too
[13:17] <eroomde> tis nice
[13:17] <zyp> or, ws81
[13:17] <zyp> I think
[13:17] <cuddykid> lol eroomde
[13:17] <zyp> isn't wsd the one with digital display?
[13:17] <cuddykid> nice zyp
[13:18] <eroomde> yes
[13:18] <zyp> I've got the analog knob one
[13:19] <zyp> I don't really see a point of having control down to a single digit :p
[13:20] <eroomde> looks cool
[13:21] <daveake> I have an Antex analog station, with 2 irons (25W and 50W). It goes from "just melts polystyrene" to "nearly as hot as eroomde's mouth", so works for me :)
[13:22] <zyp> mine is 80W
[13:22] <eroomde> yep same
[13:22] <eroomde> v nice
[13:23] <zyp> it's kind of nice that it heats up almost instantly, and even nicer that I always have enough heat
[13:23] <eroomde> not because you need 80w but because feedback and high power are where it's at
[13:23] <eroomde> you get v quick thermal recovery
[13:23] <eroomde> and you can happily solder awg10 wire into solder cupts on massive connectors
[13:23] <eroomde> cups*
[13:26] <eroomde> also, connectors
[13:26] <eroomde> most important thing evar
[13:26] <zyp> albeit, instant heat is a bit of an overstatement compared to the ones we have at work
[13:27] <eroomde> i used to use (in cusf) a metcal one
[13:27] <zyp> they are so fast to heat up that they turn off the power when the iron is in the holder
[13:27] <eroomde> which had some kind of rf eddy current heating or something
[13:27] <eroomde> and that was blindinly fast to heat too
[13:27] <zyp> I'm not sure what brand we have here, I'm working with software so I'm only using it occasionally, but it's nice
[13:28] <cuddykid> my board has passed the fusion design checks! :D
[13:28] <Randomskk> the metcal iron is so, so nice
[13:29] <Randomskk> you turn it on and can solder heatsinks together right away
[13:29] <eroomde> i am keeping an eye on ebay for one
[13:29] <eroomde> but actually the weller is great too
[13:31] Lunar_Lander (~gd-fermi@p54A06FE8.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[13:31] WillDuckworth (c2498332@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.73.131.50) joined #highaltitude.
[13:31] <zyp> yeah, I've heard that replacement tips for the metcal is not exactly affordable :p
[13:33] <Randomskk> on the plus side they last for ages
[13:33] <eroomde> and there's loads of other electronics kit i want more atm
[13:34] <eroomde> a decent bech multimeter that can do kelvin resistance, for one
[13:35] <eroomde> and a waveform generator
[13:36] <Lunar_Lander> that means you could see the temperature dependence of a resistor?
[13:36] <eroomde> ah, no sorry i was needlessly using what it was called rather than what it is
[13:36] <eroomde> it's a 4 wire connection for measuring resistance
[13:37] <eroomde> so basically it cancels out the resistance of your leads
[13:37] <eroomde> so it works like this
[13:37] <eroomde> you have 2 lines going to each end of the thing you want to measure
[13:37] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[13:37] <eroomde> one pair passes a fixed current through
[13:37] <eroomde> the other pair measures the voltage drop
[13:37] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[13:37] <Lunar_Lander> wheatstone bridge?
[13:38] <eroomde> i guess it's analogous to that, yeah
[13:38] <eroomde> i mean it's not differential or anything
[13:38] <eroomde> but i see what you mean
[13:38] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[13:38] <eroomde> http://sub.allaboutcircuits.com/images/00479.png
[13:39] <daveake> Like some PSUs have feedback terminals to cancel out the series resistance of the wires carrying the currenbt
[13:39] <Lunar_Lander> ah I see
[13:39] <Lunar_Lander> thanks for the drawing
[13:39] <eroomde> you need it really for doing accurate measurement of smaller resistances
[13:39] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[13:39] <eroomde> eg lengths of nichrome wire, for example
[13:39] <eroomde> or well, whatever really
[13:39] <eroomde> http://uk.farnell.com/agilent-technologies/34401a/multimeter-bench-6-5-digit/dp/1335866
[13:39] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[13:39] <eroomde> you can see the two pairs of connectors on the top right
[13:39] <eroomde> that's actually the unit i'd like to find on ebay
[13:39] <Lunar_Lander> yes the red ones?
[13:39] <eroomde> two pairs of red and black
[13:40] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[13:40] <eroomde> one does current, the other measures the voltage drop
[13:40] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[13:40] <Lunar_Lander> ohh expensive
[13:40] <eroomde> it's also the way to do it if you have to have long runs of wire to what you're testing, for whatever reason
[13:40] <eroomde> yeah they are
[13:40] <cuddykid> UpuWork: do I use the text box on board layout to pop name etc on?
[13:40] <eroomde> but then, they're calibrated
[13:41] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[13:41] <eroomde> they're usually the one thing in the lab that lets you calibrate all you other stuff like psus or whatever
[13:41] <eroomde> also they have a nice array of io on the back like lan and usb
[13:41] <eroomde> as they're often put into test rigs for production lines
[13:41] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[13:42] <eroomde> they're not that bad a deal for the money really, given their accuracy and usefulness. but you do have to send it off once a year to get cal'd
[13:42] <eroomde> and if you ever want to sell prototypes or bits and bobs to industries like aerospace, they will want a paper trail back to something calibrated, usually
[13:43] <eroomde> which is another thing to consider
[13:43] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[13:44] <eroomde> but i don't deny that they overcharge
[13:44] <eroomde> i mean
[13:44] <eroomde> http://uk.farnell.com/agilent-technologies/82351a/card-gpib-interface-pcie/dp/1425680?in_merch=true&MER=i-9b10-00001460
[13:44] <eroomde> that's just a pci card to some ancient test equipment interface
[13:44] <Lunar_Lander> OHH
[13:46] <eroomde> LCR meters are also fantastically expensive
[13:46] <eroomde> i'm not quite sure why
[13:47] <Randomskk> presumably because they can totally get away with it
[13:47] <eroomde> i guess so
[13:47] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[13:47] <Randomskk> and in the same way that no one got fired for buying IBM
[13:47] <Darkside> nn all
[13:47] <Lunar_Lander> do you remember the 808 Spycam?
[13:47] <eroomde> they're trickier parameters to meaningfully measure than resistance, for sure
[13:47] <Lunar_Lander> gn8 Darkside
[13:47] <Randomskk> you're not going to buy a precision LCR meter for calibration from some random company you've never heard of
[13:47] <eroomde> but they seem hugely pricey
[13:47] <Randomskk> when there's an agilent one around
[13:47] <Randomskk> in a proper lab, anyway
[13:47] <eroomde> nobody got fired for hiring ibm right
[13:48] <Darkside> ibm helped to fire people though
[13:48] <Darkside> (very bad joke)
[13:48] <eroomde> i don't get it
[13:49] <Darkside> (ibm wrote the 1940s equivalent of software for the tallying machines in auschwitz)
[13:49] <Randomskk> I guess the saying doesn't work so well now that IBM are mostly a consultancy
[13:49] <Randomskk> that's a terrible joke
[13:49] <eroomde> jon cormack worked for them
[13:49] <eroomde> writing cobol
[13:49] <eroomde> he says he actually quite likes writing cobol
[13:49] <Darkside> anyway i should sleep
[13:49] <Darkside> nn
[13:49] <eroomde> eyebrows would raise at that usually bit with jon it all fits
[13:49] <Laurenceb> cya
[13:49] <Randomskk> I know right
[13:49] <Randomskk> explains a lot
[13:51] <Laurenceb> cobol makes my eyes hurt
[13:51] <fsphil> cobol can be fatal
[13:52] <daveake> I satrted with BASIC, FORTRAN and Z80 assembler, and I'm completely nor....... er, as you were.
[13:53] <LazyLeopard> Heh. Shuffle the order slightly...
[13:53] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[13:53] <daveake> :-)
[13:53] <Lunar_Lander> do you remember that 808 spycam that was sold on ebay for some pounds?
[13:53] <Lunar_Lander> I
[13:54] <daveake> Yes
[13:54] <Lunar_Lander> I now saw it in a catalogue with a Hyundai logo printed on it
[13:54] Action: fsphil has been relearning assembler. well, sorta
[13:54] <Lunar_Lander> for 30 Euro IIRC
[13:54] <daveake> Yeah, there are lots of versions. As far as I know they're all crap
[13:54] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[13:54] <Lunar_Lander> I once saw a disassembly where the chips inside were painted over
[13:55] <daveake> A non-crap one I'd be interested in for a pico flight
[13:55] <Lunar_Lander> but recently I saw one that had Hyundai printed on a chip
[13:55] <Lunar_Lander> that was in cuddykids HABE2 album IIRC
[13:56] <cuddykid> all ready to go to manufacture! unless anyone can spot any glaring mistakes?! lol - http://i.imgur.com/421mn.png
[13:58] <Lunar_Lander> cuddykid: was that your album with the opened up 808?
[13:58] <cuddykid> Lunar_Lander: one sec, I'll get a link
[13:59] <fsphil> micro sd slot, nice
[13:59] <cuddykid> http://www.flickr.com/photos/acudworth/sets/72157627177202669/
[13:59] <daveake> There might be some not-quite-so-crap ones - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1362692&pp=100#post16951767
[13:59] <Lunar_Lander> yeah that one I meant cuddykid:)
[13:59] <Lunar_Lander> what does U$3 do?
[14:00] <cuddykid> MLow: this was my cutdown device - http://www.flickr.com/photos/acudworth/6813802509/in/set-72157627177202669
[14:00] <cuddykid> Lunar_Lander: temp sensors :)
[14:01] <Laurenceb> how did that cutdown work?
[14:02] <cuddykid> signal from arduino, then powered from it's own AA bateries
[14:02] <cuddykid> nichrome
[14:02] <cuddykid> but the blue wires broke away just as the payload was about to be released - solder joints failed
[14:03] <cuddykid> under the weight of the red wire (coming from 2 blue wires)
[14:03] <UpuWork> you put a SM LED on there :)
[14:03] <cuddykid> UpuWork: did I ?! where?
[14:03] <UpuWork> oh
[14:03] <Lunar_Lander> yay daveake that Tom Frank thread is good!
[14:03] <UpuWork> no
[14:03] <Lunar_Lander> I remember it from ages ago
[14:03] <UpuWork> sorry thats the resistor
[14:03] <cuddykid> lol :P
[14:03] <Lunar_Lander> i.e. last year xD
[14:03] <cuddykid> UpuWork: it looks all ready to go
[14:03] <UpuWork> 1 thing
[14:03] <cuddykid> hopefully
[14:03] <UpuWork> and its easy
[14:03] <cuddykid> ok
[14:04] <UpuWork> see the line that connects 2 pins together on the GPS
[14:04] <cuddykid> yep
[14:04] <daveake> This listing - http://www.ebay.com/itm/11-808-jumbo-HD-Camera-Video-DVR-Voice-Driving-Recorder-H-264-30fps-mov-Webcam-/270877683487?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f11916f1f#ht_7431wt_1045 has a video attached. Looks quite good quality actually.
[14:04] <UpuWork> GND RF GND then the 2 next to it are connected together
[14:04] <cuddykid> (top right)
[14:04] <cuddykid> yeah
[14:04] <UpuWork> make it thicker just right click it and make it a tad thicker
[14:04] <UpuWork> someone managed to damage it on a breakout
[14:04] <cuddykid> ok :D thanks
[14:05] <UpuWork> and good luck :)
[14:05] <daveake> And while it's being made, order a scalpel :p
[14:05] <cuddykid> thanks lol
[14:05] <UpuWork> one thing Adam
[14:05] <UpuWork> http://habe.acudworth.co.uk/ 404 :)
[14:06] <cuddykid> yeah - I'm working on it :P lol
[14:06] <cuddykid> after this is out the way with - going to port over the wordpress stuff
[14:06] <UpuWork> and some tweezers
[14:06] <cuddykid> at http://habexperiments.wordpress.com
[14:06] <cuddykid> yes, definitely need to get some tweezers
[14:06] <cuddykid> quite a few things on my list
[14:07] <cuddykid> UpuWork: http://i.imgur.com/VgpH5.png better?
[14:08] <cuddykid> also - how do I write in the silk layer (top or bottom) the order number?
[14:10] <UpuWork> a bit too much keep it within the pads :)
[14:10] <UpuWork> err
[14:10] <UpuWork> you see on the GPS
[14:10] <UpuWork> I left a great big socking bit of text ?
[14:11] <UpuWork> saying 21 tPlace ? :)
[14:11] <cuddykid> yeah
[14:11] <cuddykid> dunno what that is
[14:11] <UpuWork> thats your text later :)
[14:11] <UpuWork> layer
[14:11] <cuddykid> oh - not tNames?
[14:11] <UpuWork> you can remove that or copy it
[14:11] <UpuWork> no tPlace is what I used and seems to work
[14:12] <UpuWork> Check it on gerber viewer later
[14:12] <UpuWork> you need to make sure none of the text is going over pads
[14:12] <cuddykid> ok, so I've put name etc in tNames - now I put the order number in tPlace?
[14:12] <cuddykid> done that - all good (apart from vias)
[14:12] <UpuWork> write some text change the layer to tPLace
[14:13] <UpuWork> you need to do a DRC using Seed's file
[14:13] <cuddykid> and that won't get printed on the board?
[14:13] <cuddykid> done the DRC using seed's file - all ok
[14:14] <cuddykid> got my order number :D
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[14:18] <cuddykid> it won't let me select seed's cam file
[14:18] <cuddykid> i go "file -> CAM processor -> under "output" click "file", then it's greyed out
[14:21] <cuddykid> just to check, UpuWork - if I put the order number in the _tSilk layer, it won't get printed on the board?
[14:22] <UpuWork> not sure I normally stick it in tlpace so it does
[14:22] <UpuWork> File -> CAM Processor
[14:22] <UpuWork> THEN
[14:22] <UpuWork> File -> Open -> Job
[14:22] <UpuWork> Then process
[14:22] <UpuWork> then go get a Gerber viewer and check it
[14:23] <eroomde> this might make a good wiki entry ^
[14:23] <cuddykid> ahh ok, got it - sort of :P
[14:23] <eroomde> mit der screenerschotten
[14:23] <UpuWork> I need to do a whole series on Eagle and getting them made
[14:23] <cuddykid> definitely eroomde - it's awful
[14:23] <UpuWork> but a day is 24 hours long and I like to sleep
[14:23] <eroomde> it can seem pretty spooky and intimidating when its yuor first time
[14:23] <cuddykid> lol UpuWork
[14:24] <cuddykid> hold on - only 2 layers are highlighted on the right now - "drills" and "holes"
[14:24] <eroomde> and i often find that make make pcb's not quite frequenctly enough that i can always remember how to do it
[14:24] <UpuWork> Trust me if it works first time you'll be very happy
[14:24] <UpuWork> and now you have an ICSP on there you can program it directly
[14:24] <UpuWork> removing the chip to re program :) Good luck with that
[14:25] <cuddykid> lol
[14:25] <cuddykid> oooo - it's done something :D
[14:26] <UpuWork> ---/\
[14:27] <cuddykid> oh jeez - looks a nightmare to try and port to mac
[14:27] <UpuWork> sure there are some Mac Gerber viewers out there
[14:28] <cuddykid> grabbing one now
[14:28] <BrainDamage> kicad has a gerber viewer
[14:28] <UpuWork> its important as it can render the text different to the layout and print over pads
[14:30] <cuddykid> oh, annoying - "exceeds capacity of free mode"
[14:33] <cuddykid> could anyone run them on their gerber viewers and quickly check?
[14:34] <Lunar_Lander> OK, lunch time
[14:35] <Lunar_Lander> see you later :)
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[14:35] <cuddykid> I'll boot up in windows and check - time for my computer to freeze massively :P
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[14:37] <cuddykid> need to dash - I'll complete this later
[14:37] <cuddykid> bbl
[14:37] <griffonbot> @LVL1WhiteStar: @GoPro_News we're putting a Hero HD cam on our trans-Atlantic balloon today, vid recording trigger via Iridium satellite modem! #UKHAS [http://twitter.com/LVL1WhiteStar/status/169792423185231872]
[14:40] <oh7lzb> huh
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[14:53] <UpuWork> transatlantic today ?
[14:55] <joph> griffonbot, expensive balloon :D
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[15:08] <Laurenceb> ooh where
[15:09] <Laurenceb> aprs?
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[16:00] <SamSilver> off topic > http://shootmytruck.com/
[16:03] <costyn> joph: yes, very ; that iridium modem is expensive too :)
[16:03] <Dan-K2VOL> afternoon all
[16:03] <costyn> Dan-K2VOL: hiya
[16:03] <joph> costyn, >$1500?
[16:04] <joph> or an used one?
[16:04] <costyn> joph: around $300 if I remember right
[16:04] <joph> nice
[16:05] <Dan-K2VOL> joph what are you looking for?
[16:06] <costyn> we were wondering what the total payload cost was for whitestar, seeing all the expensive components going into it
[16:06] <Dan-K2VOL> oh, it's awful. it wasn't supposed to be this expensive
[16:06] <costyn> I can imagine :)
[16:06] <Dan-K2VOL> but what's far more is the things that didn't make it in
[16:07] <costyn> Dan-K2VOL: but you did buy? ;)
[16:07] <Dan-K2VOL> a lot of R&D testing here at the hackerspace
[16:07] <Dan-K2VOL> a lot of video cameras failed the testing
[16:07] <Dan-K2VOL> 3 orbcomm sat modem dev kits
[16:08] <Dan-K2VOL> the total program over 2 years will probably be somewhere around $10000, mostly our own team's donations
[16:08] <Dan-K2VOL> but the actual flight hardware minus balloon will probably be around $800 if you don't count man-hours we put in
[16:09] <Dan-K2VOL> the balloon was $300
[16:09] <costyn> wow
[16:10] <costyn> that's a whole different league from what most of us are doing here :) very cool
[16:11] <Dan-K2VOL> yes, however, the goal of the whole thing is to document publicly how to do it successfully as cheap as we can, and then others can find ways to do it cheaper once everyone knows a baseline that works
[16:12] <Dan-K2VOL> we're carrying too many batteries now, for example
[16:12] <Dan-K2VOL> after we switched to iridium
[16:12] <Dan-K2VOL> the Iridium modem AND antenna come from the $250 Delorme InReach device btw
[16:12] <costyn> cool, so basically figuring out how to do long floaters for not too much money
[16:13] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah
[16:13] <costyn> so whats the plan, launch it, and then try to have it land somewhere within reach of friendly party in Europe?
[16:14] <costyn> to retrieve it?
[16:14] <Dan-K2VOL> Heh, just try to hit dry land really
[16:15] <costyn> ok, so the camera's are going along just in case you retreive the payload
[16:15] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah
[16:15] <Dan-K2VOL> they are very low priority, which is why they're being done last
[16:15] <Dan-K2VOL> well, just one
[16:16] <Dan-K2VOL> there's no room for onboard logic for recording videos, so we'll just send on and off commands up the iridium link for the cam
[16:17] <costyn> ok cool. is there a planned launch date yet?
[16:17] <Dan-K2VOL> there can't be a planned date until 48 hours before the launch
[16:18] <Dan-K2VOL> we have to wait for the wind forecast to be just right
[16:18] <Dan-K2VOL> to carry it across in less than 72 hours
[16:18] <costyn> ok, but is the balloon basically ready to go then?
[16:18] <Dan-K2VOL> no
[16:18] <eroomde> my understanding (cmiiw dan) is that for a trans-a it's an order of mag more time/weather critical than a typical uk balloon launch
[16:18] <eroomde> as you really want to ride the wave of a front
[16:19] <Dan-K2VOL> there's a few more weeks of work, just a few days of electronics integration, and then a few weeks of flight simulation to test the new comm software and train mission controllers
[16:19] <costyn> nice, lots of work but sounds like fun
[16:21] <Dan-K2VOL> yes eroomde, I'm not really paying attention to the frontal system relation, but the jet stream forecast will look like a smooth river from here to you, and our HYSPLIT predictions will all go to the same place for flight paths at all altitudes between 8000m and 12000m
[16:21] <Dan-K2VOL> here's the jet stream map forecast for 48 hours from now, for example: http://virga.sfsu.edu/gif/jetstream_atl_h48_00.gif
[16:21] <Dan-K2VOL> not a good day to fly there!
[16:22] <Dan-K2VOL> looks like we'd go visit the equator on that day
[16:22] <costyn> heh
[16:22] <eroomde> interesting
[16:22] <Dan-K2VOL> the gray patches indicate wind speeds high enough for us
[16:22] <eroomde> and yes
[16:23] <eroomde> you'd be bombing central atlantic
[16:23] <Dan-K2VOL> heh
[16:23] <Dan-K2VOL> the doldrums I think, right?
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[16:39] <cuddykid> UpuWork: I put my order number in the bottom silk layer yet it doesn't show up in the gerber viewer
[16:46] <cuddykid> ahhhhh - wish me luck - I've sent them off!
[16:47] Nick change: MLow -> MLow-werk
[16:47] <MLow-werk> im here
[16:47] <MLow-werk> hi cuddykid
[16:47] <MLow-werk> hi Dan-K2VOL
[16:48] <MLow-werk> so did that south texas launch go well on the 12th?
[16:48] <cuddykid> Hi MLow-werk
[16:49] <costyn> MLow-werk: no
[16:49] <costyn> MLow-werk: it stopped responding
[17:02] <MLow-werk> welp
[17:02] <MLow-werk> good thing it was floater set up, no expensive cameras and stuff
[17:03] <MLow-werk> what tracker did they use, trackuino
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[17:13] <MLow-werk> yep trackuino
[17:13] <MLow-werk> bummer
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[17:20] <zyp> Darkside, are you around?
[17:20] <zyp> 00:00:26 < Darkside> zyp: one comment: powerchoke inductors arent meant to have copper below the centre of them
[17:20] <zyp> got a reference on that?
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[17:29] <Dan-K2VOL> was it fsphil who did the blimps over the alps?
[17:30] <MLow-werk> sounds fun nontheless
[17:30] <MLow-werk> i need to sit down and do a parts list for all my stuff and just order from mouser already
[17:30] <MLow-werk> been working so much i have put it off a week and a half
[17:30] <number10> i think blimps over alps was eroomde
[17:30] <Dan-K2VOL> oh cool
[17:31] <Dan-K2VOL> eroomde you do get to do all the cool stuff ;-)
[17:31] <number10> there is a cool video of him catching one as it landed
[17:31] <Dan-K2VOL> nice
[17:39] <cuddykid> I thought it was eroomde who did that
[17:41] <number10> I think ed was the pilot and somone else caught it here is vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0m0jEfR_iw&feature=related
[17:42] <Dan-K2VOL> oh cool, looking
[17:43] <Dan-K2VOL> nice catch
[17:43] <Dan-K2VOL> and nice flying
[17:56] <MLow-werk> wish i wasnt at work
[17:57] <Dan-K2VOL> keep up the balloon work on your free time, I've been doing things on balloons for 8 years, and showing the things I've done with them to potential employers has gotten me several balloon-unrelated jobs
[17:57] <Dan-K2VOL> and one balloon related one!
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[18:04] <griffonbot> Received email: Rick Hewett "[UKHAS] Re: habitat upload totals"
[18:10] <MLow-werk> i hate my job i went to college for video game art
[18:11] <Dan-K2VOL> I didn't even finish college, I just taught myself electrical engineering using balloons
[18:11] <Dan-K2VOL> u can too!
[18:11] <MLow-werk> i no lern spelling was homescooled
[18:11] <Dan-K2VOL> ha
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[18:27] <MLow-werk> frum texasss
[18:28] <MLow-werk> :B
[18:41] <cuddykid> MLow-werk: I hope you're a fellow supporter of Ron Paul!?! haha
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[19:11] <Lunar_Lander> hello people I'm not Bobby Brown because Frank Zappa didn't sing about me
[19:12] <jcoxon> evening all
[19:13] <daveake> evening. spotless still?
[19:13] <jcoxon> yeah nothing
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[19:13] <daveake> :(
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[19:14] <daveake> Theory still that it switched itself off?
[19:14] <Lunar_Lander> back sorry
[19:14] <jcoxon> yeh
[19:15] <Lunar_Lander> hello daveake, jcoxon
[19:15] <daveake> Worth asking the manufacturer under what circumstances it would do that?
[19:15] <daveake> LO LL
[19:15] <jcoxon> ummm probably best not
[19:15] <Lunar_Lander> daveake: letter arrived :)
[19:15] <daveake> LL Good :)
[19:15] <Lunar_Lander> :) thanks :)
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[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> hello NigeyS
[19:31] <NigeyS> hihi
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[19:38] <MLow-werk> NigeyS!
[19:38] <MLow-werk> How life
[19:38] <MLow-werk> hows*
[19:38] <NigeyS> hi! better now this flu is easing off!
[19:39] <MLow-werk> Good to hear, didn't know you were ill
[19:39] <NigeyS> 2nd time in 3 months, meh :/
[19:39] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:39] <Lunar_Lander> NigeyS: up for a talk?
[19:39] Action: MLow-werk knocks on wood.
[19:39] <MLow-werk> I never get sick.
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[19:40] <NigeyS> MLow-werk, never say never :p
[19:40] <NigeyS> Lunar_Lander, sure, whats up ?
[19:40] <MLow-werk> Diamonds are forever...
[19:40] <fsphil> Dan-K2VOL, I'm up for doing blimps in the alps if you want to provide me with the blimps. and the flight. and the hotel :)
[19:40] <NigeyS> lol phil
[19:41] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[19:42] <Euthanasia> I will take that as a no
[19:42] <fsphil> lol
[19:43] <fsphil> drat
[19:43] <NigeyS> lols
[19:43] <fsphil> I had my bag half packed
[19:43] Dan-K2VOL (~Dan-K2VOL@69.64.6.70) joined #highaltitude.
[19:43] <fsphil> oh
[19:43] <NigeyS> he's back, with tickets! :p
[19:43] Action: fsphil gets packing
[19:43] <Euthanasia> lol
[19:44] <Euthanasia> pfft who needs hotels in the alps?
[19:44] Action: NigeyS hides in suitcase
[19:44] <Euthanasia> Take a damn tent with you
[19:44] <Euthanasia> :)
[19:45] <fsphil> brrr
[19:46] <Euthanasia> Nor will you need a freezer for your food
[19:46] <Euthanasia> :)
[19:52] <NigeyS> hah good point
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[20:24] <Upu> hey Dan-K2VOL
[20:25] <Dan-K2VOL> hey upu
[20:25] <Upu> saw your tweet earlier about the GoPro
[20:25] <Upu> you launching soon ?
[20:26] <Dan-K2VOL> not sure upu
[20:27] <Dan-K2VOL> the rest of the team has a lot to do that they're not currently doing before we can launch
[20:27] <Upu> is the transmitter pure APRS ?
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[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> hey Dan-K2VOL, Upu
[20:29] <Upu> evening Lunar_Lander
[20:29] SAIDias (~SAID@71.39.84.131) joined #highaltitude.
[20:30] <Upu> Anyone asked you to translate the tracking guide into Deutsch ?
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> how is life?
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> not yet
[20:30] <Upu> consider yourself asked :)
[20:30] Saibot (~saibot@mail.kendeco.com) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> :) I can try
[20:30] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:30] <Upu> if you get a moment
[20:30] <Dan-K2VOL> upu it's pur iridium
[20:30] <Upu> ok Dan-K2VOL
[20:31] <Upu> send it our way :)
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[20:31] <Dan-K2VOL> :-)
[20:32] <Upu> what altitude do you expect the float to be at ?
[20:33] <fsphil> no problems recovering if it lands within 100 miles of here :)
[20:33] <fsphil> except for the ocean and lake bits anyway ;)
[20:33] <daveake> We never land in those, do we?
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[20:34] <Upu> said before all the cool kids land in the north sea
[20:34] <daveake> Sure do :)
[20:35] <daveake> Extra cool points for recovering them too
[20:35] <Upu> indeed
[20:35] <daveake> Er, does the English Channel count?
[20:35] <Laurenceb_> Darkside, eroomde: there is one way to easily do SDR with a poor LOm mix up to a very high IF, then mix back down to DC
[20:35] <fsphil> poo
[20:35] <Laurenceb_> *LO
[20:35] <Laurenceb_> yes also poo
[20:35] <Laurenceb_> thats simpler
[20:36] <fsphil> you'd hope so anyway
[20:37] <Laurenceb_> WC oscillation column
[20:38] nigelvh_ (45a4a77e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.164.167.126) joined #highaltitude.
[20:38] <Laurenceb_> so if you wanted DC to 2GHz, youd have to mix up to 4GHz, not very nice at all
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[20:39] Nick change: MLow-werk -> MLow
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[20:40] Nick change: nigelvh_ -> nigelvh
[20:41] <nigelvh> MLow: BTW, I got my HX1's in, and hooked one up. I do get the same difference in deviation between the tones, but I do get decode.
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[20:45] <cuddykid> Dan-K2VOL: how much was your iridium sat modem? Is it a plausible solution for an uplink/ground to air comms?
[20:45] <MLow> damn you nigelvh
[20:45] <MLow> whats you decode setup?
[20:45] <MLow> and can you take a wav file and decode it for me?
[20:46] <nigelvh> I can't presently as I'm at work, but I can this evening. Also, most the info you'll want I put on my blog. k7nvh.com
[20:47] <Dan-K2VOL> cuddykid I"m actually dealing with that right now on phone, will get back to you in a few
[20:47] <cuddykid> Dan-K2VOL: haha! ok :)
[20:49] <MLow> nigelvh: what you using to decode?
[20:49] <nigelvh> It decodes with both AGWPE or MixW
[20:49] <nigelvh> What's shown is the tuning aid from AGWPE, and the decode output from MixW
[20:51] <nigelvh> Note that the baud rate in the video is wrong. The sound card in my laptop isn't clocked right, so it thinks the 1200 baud packets are at 1192 or so. This is the same with the other local packet signals.
[20:53] <MLow> what ticks me off is my laptop decodes like 90% of local packets heard over the air
[20:53] <MLow> AGWPE
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[20:54] <nigelvh> Try MixW. It's got a free trial, and I think it's much easier to use than agwpe
[20:54] <nigelvh> http://mixw.net/
[20:54] <nigelvh> One thing to note is that initially the packet mode defaults to HF packet at 300baud, you'll have to change the mode settings to 1200baud standard shift.
[20:55] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Randall "Re: [UKHAS] Re: launching in UK"
[21:00] Euthanasia (~Nope@74.126.76.39) left irc:
[21:01] <MLow> you mentioned you used caps?
[21:01] <nigelvh> Yes, but it worked either way.
[21:02] <nigelvh> I used a 2.2uF cap in series with the input.
[21:02] <nigelvh> Just a DC block.
[21:02] <nigelvh> Given the high impedance of the input, a very low value cap would probably work fine
[21:03] <nigelvh> I just had a 2.2uF laying around
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[21:03] <MLow> hm i think i have 100nf
[21:03] <nigelvh> yeah, a 0.1uF should be fine I would think.
[21:04] <nigelvh> (Having not done the calculation)
[21:04] <Upu> evening jcoxon
[21:04] <MLow> wtf
[21:04] <MLow> 100uf
[21:04] <MLow> series
[21:04] <MLow> DECODE
[21:04] <Upu> I'm optimistically keeping the SPOT page open :)
[21:04] <daveake> :)
[21:04] <jcoxon> Upu, haha
[21:05] <MLow> its super quiet but it decodes fine
[21:05] <fsphil> hmm
[21:05] <nigelvh> Have you performed the customary sacrifice?
[21:05] <MLow> like super quiet
[21:05] <jcoxon> MLow, success?
[21:05] <MLow> yes decode
[21:05] <jcoxon> aprs with hx1 and trackuino?
[21:05] <nigelvh> Yeah
[21:05] <MLow> yes
[21:05] <jcoxon> goodness
[21:05] <jcoxon> congrats
[21:05] <MLow> 2 WEEKS
[21:06] <jcoxon> document the success!
[21:06] <MLow> MY BLOG
[21:06] Action: Upu poings MLow to the ukhas wiki
[21:06] <Upu> poings
[21:06] <fsphil> like that
[21:06] <MLow> poing?
[21:06] <Upu> it works
[21:06] <MLow> mlowrie.com/blog
[21:06] <MLow> yes i know it's a crap ip redirect im working on it
[21:07] <fsphil> if I where to write up the ssdv spec, would anyone recommend a program to do it in?
[21:07] <nigelvh> MLow: there appears to be no content.
[21:07] <MLow> nope
[21:07] <MLow> but now i have content in my head
[21:08] <MLow> how i got my HX1 to work
[21:08] <MLow> all thanks to NIGELVH
[21:08] <nigelvh> By fighting for two weeks and then putting a capacitor in there?
[21:08] <MLow> yeah
[21:08] <fsphil> be interesting to know why it works
[21:08] <MLow> basically
[21:08] <MLow> ac pass dc block i guess did it
[21:08] <fsphil> and why it's not always needed
[21:08] <fsphil> aah
[21:08] <MLow> poor QA from radiometrix?
[21:08] <fsphil> that's right, you've an analogue source
[21:09] <nigelvh> Keep in mind that I'm not using a trackuino. I have a 2.5v dc biased analogue source.
[21:09] <fsphil> they're not designed to do analogue
[21:09] <MLow> yeah but the trackuino uses pwm
[21:09] <MLow> as does mine, and their workds
[21:09] <fsphil> right, I got you mixed up with how nigelvh did it
[21:10] <fsphil> be interesting to get an oscilloscope on it, see what's going on
[21:10] <nigelvh> On my blog I've got a scope picture of my tones, but I suspect the trackuino will look a good bit different.
[21:11] <fsphil> yea
[21:12] <nigelvh> Anyway, we got it working, so that's what counts presently.
[21:14] <nigelvh> Also MLow, if you get the opportunity, pick up a scope. You can find a decent used one for really cheap, or someone might even give/permanently lend you one. They're really handy for this sort of work.
[21:15] <MLow> i dont really know anyone
[21:16] <nigelvh> Then that leaves the cheap used option open.
[21:16] <nigelvh> It doesn't need to be fancy to work in the audio range.
[21:17] <nigelvh> But this situation is a perfect example of the difference between the input and output, and it's important to know when diagnosing that you're signals in are valid.
[21:18] <Upu> nigelvh were you referred here from Radiometrix ?
[21:18] <nigelvh> Yeah
[21:18] <Upu> ah thats it yeah
[21:19] <Upu> I got a nice mail from them today thanking us for assisting people
[21:19] <nigelvh> MLow: Look for a ham radio meeting/convention nearby, talk with those people and you'll be able to find a scope for free or cheap.
[21:19] <nigelvh> Upu: That was nice of them.
[21:19] <Upu> they've been nothing but supportive to be honest
[21:20] <MLow> how did they make the first oscilloscope
[21:21] <MLow> wouldnt you need an oscilloscope to test the oscilloscope you make
[21:22] <nigelvh> Well, it comes down to using a CRT, which leaves the image up for a short time while it's drawing the rest, a crystal for a time reference, and just changing the Yvalue with voltage over time.
[21:23] <nigelvh> The concept is pretty simple, Actually building one with tubes and whatnot is a little beyond me, but I could see it being done without having one around.
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[21:23] <nigelvh> These days I can turn an arduino into a cheap+slow oscilloscope easy peasy.
[21:23] <nigelvh> But, like I said, it's slow.
[21:24] <nigelvh> That may be a good option for you. If you're only working with audio frequencies, an arduino scope would probably be fine.
[21:25] <nigelvh> nothing fancy like triggering, unless you write the code, but with the arduino hooked up to a processing sketch, you could display the stuff.
[21:27] <MLow> cool beans ill make one
[21:27] <MLow> another day though
[21:29] <nigelvh> As a point of general interest on the HX1's, I think I'll hook one up to my signal generator, and see what its frequency response is. That may be useful information for the group to know. But that will also have to wait for another day. I've got other new toys to play with.
[21:31] <jcoxon> nigelvh, the more info the better really
[21:32] <jcoxon> the wiki is perfect for stuff like that
[21:32] <nigelvh> Yeah, I'm not a member of the wiki yet, but I'll get around to it.
[21:35] <nigelvh> afk for a few.
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[21:40] <MLow> its hot
[21:40] <MLow> why is texas so hot
[21:41] <cuddykid> it's cold here - lucky
[21:41] <jcoxon> oi daveake you haven't updated teh wiki regarding rfm22b
[21:42] <fsphil> mild tonight here
[21:42] <fsphil> though cold weekend forecast
[21:42] <cuddykid> well yeah, mild, but cold :P
[21:45] <daveake> So sorry jcoxon will get that sorted boss :)
[21:46] <daveake> It'll be the weekend as work is in the way :(
[21:47] <jcoxon> hehe its okay
[21:47] <daveake> I got 2 more in this week. I think the one I dunked in the English Channel is a bit down on power
[21:47] <jcoxon> perhaps one for the museum
[21:48] <daveake> Yep. I'm not going to re-fly anything that's not 100%
[21:48] <daveake> When the winds are favourable I'll do a silver foil flight
[21:49] <cuddykid> my rfm22b arrived today :D
[21:50] <jcoxon> i'm not sure i'm going to do any more picos
[21:51] <daveake> This is because I have a Buzz Lightyear foil balloon I want to fly that just for a laugh
[21:51] <cuddykid> jcoxon: do you know the regs around reckons?
[21:51] <jcoxon> hehe
[21:51] <cuddykid> *rockoons
[21:51] <daveake> Though it'll need a round one too for lift
[21:51] <jcoxon> cuddykid, total grey area
[21:51] <cuddykid> is that in the law/regs or your knowledge? :P
[21:52] <jcoxon> discuss with cusf
[21:52] <jcoxon> cuddykid, both
[21:52] <cuddykid> ahh cool, will do, thanks :)
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[22:01] <nigelvh> We're going to try a rockoon round here in a few weeks, and we've had a hell of a time getting FAA approval.
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[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> nigelvh: that was Ohio right?
[22:04] g7waw (568ad284@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.138.210.132) left irc:
[22:05] <nigelvh> No, I'm in washington, but we launch in nevada.
[22:06] <cuddykid> oh wow, nigelvh - if you're having a problem with the FAA in Nevada, here it must be a nightmare!
[22:06] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
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[22:07] <cuddykid> btw - any sky subscribers here? If so, just spotted that you can get 2 free disneyland tickets :P
[22:07] <cuddykid> ^off topic lol - but may be of interest
[22:07] <nigelvh> As for right now, it looks like we've got approval for a fairly low flight, and we have to guarantee it's landing radius because they think that somehow it could damage some railroad tracks about 20 miles away.
[22:08] <nigelvh> Also, it's tethered. They won't do an untethered one.
[22:09] <cuddykid> oh jeez
[22:10] <cuddykid> that puts a bit of a show stopped on my plans for a J class motor firing off at 30km up
[22:10] <cuddykid> that's unless the cuspaceflight people have some tricks up their sleeves
[22:11] <nigelvh> Yeah, I'm not saying it's not possible, just may be pretty difficult.
[22:12] <nigelvh> Also, we're probably going to be using a bit larger than a J.
[22:12] <cuddykid> oh wow
[22:12] <nigelvh> Maybe a K or an L
[22:12] <cuddykid> getting some real power :P
[22:12] <nigelvh> At least for the balloon. The ground stuff I think we've got a couple of Ns
[22:12] <cuddykid> the guy I'm working with said he can get me about 675Ns of thrust
[22:13] <cuddykid> which he says on the ground get's a rocket travelling about 1000mph?!? - GPS cocom limits start to come into play then..
[22:13] <cuddykid> well, 1200mph
[22:13] <nigelvh> What class does that fall in? I'm a telemetry guy, I have very little to do with the rocket body/motors
[22:14] <nigelvh> I know we've gotten rockets up to mach 1.96
[22:14] <nigelvh> This year we hope to break mach 2.
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[22:14] <Lunar_Lander> awesome
[22:14] <cuddykid> I'm not a rocket guy either, but working with one, apparently class J
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[22:15] <nigelvh> Yeah, I think we set our speed record on an L
[22:15] <cuddykid> nigelvh: what altitude do you think you in theory should/will be able to reach with a decent rockoon? Or is the sky the limit?! :P
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> could space be reached?
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> i.e. 100 km?
[22:16] <cuddykid> Lunar_Lander: that is the end aim :P long way off though
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:17] <cuddykid> I guess it would require multistage rocket and then the weight goes up so larger balloons required
[22:17] <nigelvh> Well, I think the plan this year is to tether the rockoon at 1000ft for launch. As for if you let the balloon go, that's a different story. As you know, the atmosphere is much thinner up there, your thrust pushes the rocket farther.
[22:17] <cuddykid> yep
[22:18] <nigelvh> I saw a video of a guy who built a homemade O motor and rocket, and got to I think 100,000ft or so.
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[22:18] <nigelvh> No rockoon help
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[22:19] <nigelvh> I suppose it just depends on how high the balloon is at launch, and how much rocket fuel you've got.
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> what I always asked me
[22:20] <nigelvh> I don't know how high you're planning on going, but watch your barometer specs. Most commercial rocket altimeter boards only work to about 40,000ft
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> how far up do the motors go?
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> i.e. you said Class O
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> are there even bigger motors?
[22:21] <nigelvh> Sure, IE shuttle boosters
[22:21] <nigelvh> the scale goes from A to massive.
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[22:22] <nigelvh> In all seriousness, I don't know where the "high power amateur rocketry" scale cuts off.
[22:23] <eroomde> i don;t think it really cuts off particularly
[22:23] <russss> it cuts of wherever your budget does
[22:23] <eroomde> it's more a mater of what you can get insured
[22:23] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:23] <eroomde> we have just sent stuff off to be machines for our 3 satge rocket N-M-M
[22:24] <Lunar_Lander> I once heard that after class Z motors, enumberation starts with AA again?
[22:24] <cuddykid> oh wow eroomde
[22:24] <cuddykid> eroomde: have you done any rockoon stuff before?
[22:24] <eroomde> should get to about 20km
[22:24] <eroomde> for launch in may
[22:24] <eroomde> cuddykid: lots of study
[22:24] <russss> wikipedia only lists them up to O
[22:25] <Lunar_Lander> are any combinations possible?
[22:25] <eroomde> never actually launched one though because i don't want to be locked up
[22:25] <cuddykid> nigelvh: yep, we're looking into chutes being triggered by on board comp rather than barometer
[22:25] <cuddykid> lol
[22:25] <Lunar_Lander> i.e. could you have a O-N-M rocket eroomde?
[22:25] <eroomde> russss: the ones they made for top gear's robin reliant shuttle were R
[22:25] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: in theory yes
[22:25] <eroomde> just a question of price and altitude ceiling
[22:25] <cuddykid> the thing that I don't get is why you're allowed to launch one of those eroomde on the ground yet you're not allowed to launch something less powerful in the air?!
[22:25] <eroomde> the launch in may lets us get to 25km
[22:25] <eroomde> so no point putting in much bigger motors
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> but as in big rockets, motors should get smaller with the upper stages?
[22:26] <eroomde> cuddykid: it's because you're in controlled airspace
[22:26] <russss> I guess the only reason those classes exist is for ease of licensing/insurance
[22:26] <eroomde> and thew range of places it might land is enormous
[22:26] <cuddykid> eroomde: but surely you're in controlled airspace too? Or are you over international waters?
[22:27] <Lunar_Lander> but as in big rockets, motors should get smaller with the upper stages?
[22:27] <eroomde> oh for the launch in may, we're allowed to 25km
[22:27] <eroomde> but the caa know exactly where the launch will take place
[22:27] <eroomde> with a rockoon you've much less idea
[22:29] <eroomde> i'm not at all saying rockoons are impossible
[22:29] <eroomde> just much harder
[22:30] <eroomde> and there are various techs we want to get a handle on before we start talking to people about actually doing it
[22:30] <eroomde> so for example this rocket in may will test a lot of rockoon-relevent things
[22:30] <eroomde> the upper stage will be flying some bits and bobs we'd need in a rockoon
[22:31] <cuddykid> ahh ok
[22:32] <cuddykid> I guess I could say to them - look I'll only launch when in uncontrolled airspace and wait for prediction to show that that will be the case
[22:33] <eroomde> it's just going to be much harder than that i'm afriad
[22:34] <cuddykid> I can imagine :(
[22:34] <eroomde> there will be a lot of radar stations which are designed to cause a big fuss if they suddenly see something coming in at mach 5 from the edge of the atmosphere
[22:34] <eroomde> you can't just do it and hope no one would notice
[22:34] <eroomde> that's just 1 example
[22:34] <cuddykid> it's hard enough trying to get permission for a damn foam glider
[22:34] <Lunar_Lander> so dropping anything from a HAB isn't really possible?
[22:34] <cuddykid> I guess there are ways round it - there are amateur space organisations
[22:35] <cuddykid> Lunar_Lander: unless by "accident" :P
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> cuddykid: there is that BASE project at DePauw university in indiana
[22:35] <eroomde> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_rocket_incident
[22:35] <cuddykid> ultimate solution - go to somewhere like eygpt where they couldn't care less lol
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> and they had a case where their flight train hit a power line and was cut in half
[22:35] <eroomde> well, south africa is a possibility
[22:35] <eroomde> good infrastructure, very large deserts
[22:36] <eroomde> we have an offer to go and visit raf fylingdales at some point
[22:36] <eroomde> to discus the project with them
[22:36] <cuddykid> eroomde: oh no - that wiki article is not good lol
[22:36] <eroomde> as the north sea is quite an attractive spot
[22:37] <Lunar_Lander> OHHH eroomde
[22:40] <russss> most places have controlled airspace somewhere above them
[22:40] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:41] <russss> I think there's a sliver of the north sea which doesn't
[22:41] <russss> but all of the north atlantic does
[22:42] <eroomde> esrange is good
[22:42] <eroomde> but probably too expensive
[22:42] <russss> yeah
[22:42] <eroomde> if you were to ask if you could do it for free, i'm not sure they'd know what to do
[22:42] <eroomde> hold meeting to decide that a decision should be made
[22:42] <eroomde> the esa way
[22:42] <russss> heh
[22:43] <cuddykid> I guess if I could satisfy them that there is a big likelihood of the chute working that would go some way
[22:44] <cuddykid> as the actual launch would happen well above controlled airspace
[22:44] <cuddykid> just need to carry the explosives through the airspace :S lol
[22:44] <nigelvh> "Yeah, I'd like to launch here, and the chute will totally probably work... most of the time.... if we're lucky."
[22:44] <cuddykid> haha
[22:44] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[22:45] <cuddykid> right, I'm off, cya
[22:45] cuddykid (~acudworth@128.243.253.217) left irc: Quit: cuddykid
[22:45] <russss> I was just looking, the north atlantic is class A airspace from FL55 to "UNL"
[22:45] <russss> I'm not sure how unlimited that is
[22:46] <nigelvh> To mars.
[22:46] <russss> I wonder where the jurisdiction of air traffic control ends
[22:46] <Laurenceb_> is WB8ELK launching?
[22:46] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:47] andrew_apex (~chatzilla@188-220-169-100.zone11.bethere.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[22:50] <russss> ah this was the chart I was looking for http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadbasic/pamslight-D0EB731ED0BF74B4A74041192F7B377E/7FE5QZZF3FXUS/EN/Charts/ENR/AIRAC/EG_ENR_6_5_1_1_en_2011-05-05.pdf
[22:51] <Laurenceb_> is this SOCA takedown thing real?
[22:51] <russss> apparently
[22:51] <Laurenceb_> it reads like troll hackers
[22:51] <russss> the ISP voluntarily gave up the domain
[22:51] <Laurenceb_> crazy
[22:52] <Laurenceb_> theyd better be trolling with the ip thing
[22:52] <Laurenceb_> i used a proxy to visit anyway
[22:55] <eroomde> soca takedown thing?
[22:59] <Randomskk> http://boingboing.net/2012/02/15/britains-threatening-and-clu.html
[23:25] <Laurenceb_> ok ive worked it out on paper
[23:25] <Laurenceb_> with two bit samples at 8msps, with stm32f4, you can do 12channel sdr gps
[23:25] <Laurenceb_> with audatious use of thumb2
[23:26] <Laurenceb_> same with 1 bit samples, 14channels, then with half the sample rate, 20channels
[23:27] <Laurenceb_> meaning you can do 8channel sdr gps on stm32F1 !
[23:28] <Laurenceb_> using the load multiple registers command
[23:28] <Laurenceb_> to speed up loading from ram
[23:29] Action: Laurenceb_ is tempted to try this now
[23:29] <Laurenceb_> at least get a correletor running on F4discovery
[23:31] <Laurenceb_> just a ton of <load registers> <xor> <add result>
[23:31] <Laurenceb_> with occasional <add nibbles> and <rotate integrated phasor>
[23:34] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.demon.co.uk) left irc: Quit: Bye
[23:35] <Laurenceb_> eroomde: i worked out a way to do the tunable SDR, but its not nice :P
[23:36] <Laurenceb_> convert up to a really high IF, then filter at that frequency - twice the highest receivable frequency
[23:38] <Laurenceb_> monologue++ - im going to sleep too then, cya all
[23:39] nigelvh (45a4a77e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.164.167.126) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[23:39] <fsphil> I thought only villains monologued
[23:40] <Lunar_Lander> XD fs
[23:40] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil:
[23:41] Nick change: MLow -> MLow-werk
[23:41] <MLow-werk> i need to remember to /away
[23:42] <Lunar_Lander> good night
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[00:00] --- Thu Feb 16 2012