highaltitude.log.20120213

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[00:05] <Laurenceb_> will see if it awakes tomorrow
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[00:14] <priyesh> ?
[00:14] <priyesh> woops.. wrong channel
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[04:33] <heathkid> how do I get started?
[04:33] <heathkid> anyone here in Indiana?
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[04:33] <Darkside> heathkid: you'd be wanting to talk to WB8ELK
[04:34] <Darkside> he's done heaps of balloon launches out of indiana
[04:34] <heathkid> thanks!
[04:34] <heathkid> although he's not on now
[04:34] <natrium42> yeah, wb8elk is awesome
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[04:34] <natrium42> he comes here only during US launches
[04:35] <natrium42> but we got his email
[04:35] <heathkid> I've lived in Indiana since 1993 and I'm a KA8...
[04:35] <heathkid> should be a N9...
[04:36] <heathkid> got my Novice ticket in Michigan around 1981 or so and have kept it ever since...
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[04:38] <natrium42> i wasn't even born back then o_O
[04:39] <heathkid> Madison, AL?
[04:39] <heathkid> huh?
[04:39] <heathkid> natrium42: stop making me feel so OLD! :P
[04:39] <heathkid> I got my Novice when I was 12
[04:40] <heathkid> my dad worked for Heath Company designing Heathkits
[04:40] <heathkid> but WB8ELK is in Madison, AL.... how launches from Indiana?
[04:41] <Darkside> hrmm
[04:41] <Darkside> hmm
[04:41] <Darkside> i coudl be wrond
[04:42] <heathkid> check it out! http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?333295-Amateur-Radio-balloon-starts-record-breaking-flight
[04:42] <Darkside> i think i am wrong
[04:42] <Darkside> heathkid: yeah, that one froze
[04:42] <heathkid> it froze?
[04:42] <heathkid> ooops
[04:43] <Darkside> well it stopped working a few hours after takeoff
[04:43] <heathkid> is it really that difficult?
[04:43] <heathkid> doesn't seem like it would be
[04:43] <heathkid> just have to keep in mind the temps....
[04:44] <Darkside> http://www.californianearspaceproject.com/flights.cnsp-11.html
[04:44] <Darkside> these guys did it properly
[04:44] <Darkside> there still is a chance the other balloon flight might revive when it hits sunlight again
[04:54] <heathkid> woow
[04:54] <heathkid> wow
[04:54] <heathkid> I want to do that
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[06:53] <UpuHome> morning
[06:53] <UpuHome> no spot :/
[06:54] <Darkside> nope
[06:54] <UpuHome> silly consumer electronics :)
[06:55] Nick change: UpuHome -> Upu
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[06:57] <earthshine> Morning
[06:58] <Upu> morning
[07:05] <griffonbot> Received email: Liz Henriquez "[UKHAS] launching in UK"
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[07:08] <Upu> morning jcoxon
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[07:09] <jcoxon> morning
[07:14] <Upu> sadly no spot this morning
[07:14] <jcoxon> have to give it time to warm up
[07:14] <jcoxon> the sun hasn't been up for that long
[07:14] <Upu> true
[07:14] <jcoxon> but yeah
[07:14] <jcoxon> its prob not going to power up
[07:14] <Upu> fingers crossed right need to get to work
[07:14] <Upu> bye
[07:15] <griffonbot> @onlineradio_fr: RT @jamescoxon: radio is failing due to low voltage - very difficult to decode #ukhas [http://twitter.com/onlineradio_fr/status/168956402847584257]
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[07:34] <griffonbot> @jamescoxon: no update from payload - suspect lost, excellent flight, tracked for over 12 hours with a nice float period #ukhas [http://twitter.com/jamescoxon/status/168961295620653057]
[07:37] <griffonbot> @onlineradio_fr: RT @jamescoxon: no update from payload - suspect lost, excellent flight, tracked for over 12 hours with a nice float period #ukhas [http://twitter.com/onlineradio_fr/status/168961965350338560]
[07:49] Action: SpeedEvil still has fingers crossed.
[07:54] <fsphil> doesn't that make typing difficult?
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[08:59] <WillDuckworth> any more news on the flight at all?
[09:00] <SpeedEvil> Nope.
[09:00] <SpeedEvil> Waiting for the SPOT to perhaps come to life again.
[09:01] <SpeedEvil> If it doesn't wakr up soon, then it's likely it won't until it lands.
[09:01] <SpeedEvil> The hypothesis is tha the GPS has stopped outputting intelligent sentances due to baud-rate shift on the output.
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[09:28] <cuddykid> morning
[09:29] <cuddykid> I do hope spot does come back online
[09:29] <cuddykid> it would be very interesting to see where it got to
[09:29] <cuddykid> does spot give altitude?
[09:29] <daveake> No. But most likely if it does start working it'll be when it lands.
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[09:30] <daveake> Hopefull though the sun will get it going this morning.
[09:30] <cuddykid> yep
[09:31] <fsphil> it's been in sunlight for a while now
[09:31] <fsphil> though it doesn't update automatically, and jcoxon could be too busy at work
[09:33] <cuddykid> "hold on patient dying, please let me check spot first"
[09:35] <WillDuckworth> would a 'switch on' of aprs transmissions in addition to ukhas be a good european helper? thoughts
[09:36] <cuddykid> I guess so WillDuckworth
[09:36] <cuddykid> plus the rfm22bs would help - being able to crank up the power output
[09:36] <SpeedEvil> Not that much really, I expect
[09:36] <cuddykid> but I guess double the power doesn't translate into double the distance?
[09:36] <daveake> Nowhere near
[09:37] <SpeedEvil> We're already getting often quite close to the line-of-sight
[09:37] <SpeedEvil> I expect maybe 5-10%
[09:37] <UpuWork> oh I thought the spot update was automatic
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[09:39] <fsphil> WillDuckworth, the swift payloads will have aprs over europe
[09:39] <WillDuckworth> cool- be interesting to see what happens - when are they happening?
[09:40] <gonzo_> inverse square law
[09:40] <gonzo_> double dx is 4x power
[09:40] <gonzo_> but the curvature of the earth seems to be the limiting factor here (well it c ertainly was last ioght, for mw)
[09:41] <fsphil> WillDuckworth, "Soon" :)
[09:41] <fsphil> likely sometime in the spring
[09:41] <fsphil> which is typically when it's windiest
[09:45] Action: daveake considers a launch near the end of march
[09:45] <daveake> (birthday you see)
[09:48] <WillDuckworth> i _will_ be getting notam for 3rd & 4th - (holds breath) fingers crossed for good weather
[09:49] <Darkside> i'm sure we'll be able to test a swift board over here in the flat dry land
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[09:59] <UpuWork> I don't want that one going out
[09:59] <fsphil> ah yea, hx1 on the wrong side
[09:59] <UpuWork> its more alpha than beta
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[10:01] <fsphil> vega rocket launched
[10:01] <fsphil> no boom :)
[10:01] <daveake> fresh batteries?
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[10:26] <UpuWork> I have the SPOT page open no further updates unfortunately
[10:26] <daveake> :(
[10:27] <daveake> Real shame, as that was an awesome flight whilst it lasted. Hopefully the SPOT will wake up later.
[10:27] <UpuWork> fingers crossed
[10:28] <fsphil> it was pretty amazing
[10:28] <fsphil> we've yet to beat the european void
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[10:49] <costyn> fsphil: who you calling 'void'? :) but yea too bad no updates. when did it stop transmitting last night?
[10:49] <fsphil> I mean the 70cm rtty void :)
[10:50] <fsphil> though we had an amazing coverage last night
[10:50] <fsphil> it just ran out of batteries
[10:50] <costyn> yea
[10:50] <griffonbot> @apexhab: We'd like to thank @BOConline for kindly sponsoring us with a cylinder of helium for our next launch, planned for 25th Feb. #apexhab #ukhas [http://twitter.com/apexhab/status/169010534203658240]
[10:51] <fsphil> last bit of telemetry was at 23:04:23
[10:51] <daveake> fsphil did you get any telemetry?
[10:52] <fsphil> nothing daveake, it was moving away quicker than it was ascending
[10:52] <daveake> ah :(
[10:53] <daveake> Mine gave up at 479.2km, way better than I managed previously. So the yagi-on-a-pole helped :)
[10:54] <fsphil> the guy in north west france got pretty good range last night
[10:54] <daveake> btw I got a refund on those DS18B20s sent from London via China
[10:54] <fsphil> not so bad
[10:54] <fsphil> did they ever arrive?
[10:54] <daveake> nope
[10:54] <daveake> but they may do :)
[10:55] <daveake> If they do, and they are indeed from China, I'll put in a complaint to ebay.
[10:56] <daveake> When I complained that they'd taken too long to refund, they said "We have a lot of refunds to do" lol
[10:57] <fsphil> hah, not a good sign
[10:57] <fsphil> so the moral of the story is, don't buy temperature sensors of ebay
[10:58] <daveake> yep
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[11:12] <SpeedEvil> I bought a bag of 50 18b20s
[11:12] <SpeedEvil> cheap - arrived, work
[11:12] <SpeedEvil> Of course, I then lost them, and had to buy more
[11:12] <daveake> lol
[11:12] <fsphil> you lost 50 of them?
[11:12] <SpeedEvil> yes
[11:12] <daveake> I bought these 10 after I lost the 8 I bought before
[11:13] <daveake> Then when the new 10 didn't arrive, I bought 1 at vast expense from RS for my flight 3 days away ...
[11:13] <daveake> ... and 5 minutes later I found the missing 8 :p
[11:13] <SpeedEvil> Distance selling rules!
[11:13] <daveake> Can't be arsed :)
[11:14] <daveake> That said, I spent £500+ with RS last week (no, not on HAB!) and will spend a similar amount this week
[11:15] <daveake> so it's not as if I owe them anything :)
[11:15] <fsphil> our engineer buys everything from RS
[11:15] <fsphil> even though it would probably be cheaper elsewhere
[11:16] <daveake> These are for some boards that I used to get made by a freelance engineer, but now he's got a proper job I'm doing them myself. Some parts I can and do get cheaper elsewhere.
[11:17] <daveake> But a lot I end up buying from RS. The volume helps.
[11:20] <SamSilver> RS ?
[11:20] <eroomde> RS is more expensive because they knows it's often cheaper
[11:21] <eroomde> for a prototyping engineer doing custom jobs, with singe or small vaolume units, it's much cheaper for them to jsut sit down with one catelogue and get everything
[11:21] <eroomde> than spend hours hunting around different suppliers and managing lots of trade accounts
[11:21] <Darkside> hey guysd
[11:21] <Darkside> would anyone be interested in a dual-rail boost converter board/
[11:21] <Darkside> ?
[11:22] <Darkside> 2xAA or 2xAAA in, 5V and or 3.3V out
[11:22] <eroomde> 1.8, 3.3, and 5 could be good
[11:22] <Darkside> hrmm
[11:22] <Darkside> i dunno if i can do 1.8v with these
[11:22] <daveake> Indeed. On these boards the big cost items things like the DIN-rail mounting parts, so those I get direct from the manufacturer. Cheap/low quantity parts it's just not worth the bother of looking around.
[11:22] <eroomde> but actually that's a bit of a niche requirement
[11:22] <Darkside> eroomde: heh
[11:23] <Darkside> i need 3.3v and 5v becaue the HX1 needs 5v
[11:23] <eroomde> just it's something i want
[11:23] <Darkside> most peopl ehear would get away with 3.3v
[11:23] <eroomde> well, dual 3.3 and 1.8
[11:23] <Darkside> and i reckon i can do them for cheaper than the lipower pcbs
[11:23] <UpuWork> eroomde GPS modules should be in by end of the week
[11:23] <Darkside> UpuWork: ooh
[11:23] <Darkside> ths MAX-6Qs?
[11:23] <UpuWork> yeah
[11:23] <Darkside> cool
[11:23] <UpuWork> I'll open the shop this week when I have them
[11:23] <Darkside> i'll certainly be ordering a few
[11:23] <UpuWork> Sarantels in stock now
[11:24] <eroomde> daveake: heh, I just designed and puit together a din rail thing on a big box
[11:24] <UpuWork> having sent 4 back with bent pins
[11:24] <eroomde> all from RS :)
[11:24] <Darkside> UpuWork: looooool
[11:24] <eroomde> UpuWork: fantastic
[11:24] <Darkside> i just bent hte pins back into place
[11:24] <Darkside> worked ifne
[11:24] <eroomde> and exciting
[11:24] <UpuWork> nah they were properly bent
[11:24] <daveake> eroomde The DIN stuff comes from OKW
[11:24] <UpuWork> they just sent new ones out
[11:24] <UpuWork> didn't want old ones back
[11:25] <Darkside> lol UpuWork
[11:25] <daveake> Other big cost is Weidmuller 2-part connectors. I've tried and failed to get those cheaper.
[11:25] <UpuWork> one packet also had 2 antenna, one Radome and no holder in it
[11:25] <Darkside> eroomde: i'm considering making a payload based around the Si1000
[11:25] <Darkside> have you worked with it?
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[11:25] <Darkside> its yet another radio + 8051 chip
[11:25] <eroomde> nope
[11:26] <UpuWork> Anyone want some ADF7012 chips btw ?
[11:26] <eroomde> just having a look now
[11:26] <Darkside> UpuWork: i've been considering playing with some
[11:26] <Darkside> but if i need some i'll just order via uni from farnell
[11:26] <UpuWork> I'll send you a few got some spare
[11:26] <Darkside> when i get time/money i want to try a AFSK transmitter using one
[11:27] <eroomde> what kind of frequency resultion can you get with them on 70cm?
[11:27] <WillDuckworth> yep - UpuWork
[11:27] <Darkside> didn't Randomskk get them doing RTTY?
[11:27] <Darkside> or something like that
[11:28] <Darkside> i've heard that you can do AFSK on them by having it transmit 01010101 continuously, and altering the baud rate
[11:28] <Darkside> so its more like a square wave, but apparently this is how the big reg bee trackers by alpha systems work
[11:28] <fsphil> seems a bit crude
[11:29] <Darkside> yeah
[11:29] <Darkside> very
[11:29] <Darkside> i'm thinking of doing it the other way
[11:29] <Darkside> put a varactor across the clock
[11:29] <eroomde> ah i see
[11:29] <Darkside> and do teh FM that way
[11:30] <eroomde> i'd just find a solution that does FSK in as wide a bit of spectrum as other hams will let you get away with
[11:30] <eroomde> like 1khz
[11:30] <eroomde> MFSK*
[11:30] <eroomde> that's gonna give you the lowest BER for a given power
[11:30] <Darkside> 3KHz is probably yout limit
[11:31] <eroomde> yes indeed - that's a hard limit imposed by the bandpass on the ssb receiver
[11:31] <Darkside> but if you want to decode it on the ground without a wideband receiver
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[11:34] <eroomde> i think that's why dominoex has the potnetial to become the modulation of choice. it's mfsk, decently wide, and is already a standard that things like fldigi can decode
[11:35] <Darkside> sloooooooooooow though
[11:35] <fsphil> just needs better AFC
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[11:35] <fsphil> it could be speeded up easy enough, just would be non-standard
[11:38] <eroomde> it is still about twice the wpm of rtty on the faster parts of the standard
[11:38] <eroomde> and that's with fec
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[11:39] <SpeedEvil> It would be interesting to hook a capable payload - or mp3 player - to a transmitter.
[11:40] <Darkside> eroomde: faster than 300 baud rtty?
[11:40] <SpeedEvil> with either lots of standards transmitted, or a channel charectreisation signal.
[11:40] <SpeedEvil> argh
[11:41] <eroomde> Darkside: no i don;t think so
[11:42] <eroomde> it would be about the same as 110 rtty
[11:43] <Darkside> ok
[11:43] <Darkside> if you want ultra redundancy, have a look at olivia
[11:43] <Darkside> duno how easy that would be to implement though
[11:45] <eroomde> probably more than we need
[11:45] <eroomde> it seems to sacrifice a lot of bps for SNR performance
[11:46] <Darkside> yeah
[11:46] <Darkside> tbh we dont have problems with our 300 baud rtty
[11:46] <Darkside> but for a HF beacon it could be useful
[11:46] <eroomde> agreed
[11:46] <Darkside> i've got another HF transmitter underway
[11:46] <Darkside> so i might see if i can do anything with it
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[11:48] <griffonbot> @BOConline: RT @apexhab: We'd like to thank @BOConline for kindly sponsoring us with a cylinder of helium for our next launch, planned for 25th Feb. ... [http://twitter.com/BOConline/status/169025235453100032]
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[11:58] <fsphil> Olivia is great on HF
[11:58] <eroomde> could be idea for a long duration floaterator
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[11:59] <fsphil> but it would need a pretty solid frequency, no drifting
[11:59] <Randomskk> the ADF7012s manage about 150Hz resolution iirc
[11:59] <Randomskk> might be 300Hz...
[11:59] <Randomskk> at 70cm
[11:59] <Randomskk> jon's got a project working that does whatever frequency resolution your DAC manages, really tiny shifts
[11:59] <eroomde> so rtty at best
[11:59] <Randomskk> though it's less tunable over a large range
[11:59] <eroomde> but again not much use for the mfsk-in-ham-band applications
[11:59] <Randomskk> as it's basically a crystal with a varactor and a pll multiplier
[11:59] <eroomde> oh that's neeat
[12:00] <SpeedEvil> Well - the AD frac-n synth chips work well for that.
[12:00] <Randomskk> less easy to use than the adf7012's "put a logic 1 or 0 on this line"
[12:00] <SpeedEvil> In principle, the rubidium standards would be fun for balloooms, if htey used a tenth of the power
[12:00] <Randomskk> SpeedEvil: true. the adf7012 is basically just a frac-n pll multiplier too though, just since it covers 75mhz to 1ghz its resolution drops to 300hz once you're at 70cm
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[12:01] <SpeedEvil> Some have way more bits though
[12:01] <Randomskk> indeed
[12:01] <Darkside> i'm liking the RFM22B atm
[12:01] <Randomskk> I want to play with something actually very clever but not sure when I'll find the time
[12:01] <Randomskk> Darkside: isn't that just the si4432 or whatever it is?
[12:01] <Randomskk> on a breakout board?
[12:01] <Darkside> not sure about that one
[12:01] <Darkside> i know the HP-TRF is a Si1000 on a breakout board
[12:01] <Randomskk> sitting through hours of lectures on data transmission makes me have a real itch to implement it
[12:01] Nick change: MLow-werk -> MLow
[12:01] <SpeedEvil> It's a pity that none of the devices I've found can do both frac-n, and frequency measurement.
[12:01] <Randomskk> also reaffirms how rubbish rtty is :P
[12:02] <SpeedEvil> So you can feed in a PPS, and they can grab the number of input clocks when that occurs
[12:02] <SpeedEvil> which would let you easily do software GPS disciplining.
[12:02] <Darkside> couldnt you do that with a PLL and a reference oscillator?
[12:03] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[12:03] <SpeedEvil> However, 99% of the circuitry is already there in the frac-n chip
[12:03] <SpeedEvil> it's just a pity the last 1% is several chips generally
[12:03] <Darkside> heh
[12:04] Action: SpeedEvil wonders idly about a hack involving a stm32
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[12:04] <Laurenceb_> looks a bit dead :-/
[12:04] <SpeedEvil> I dunno how the stm32 counter works though
[12:04] <SpeedEvil> Clock it with the ~10MHz input, and how accurately can it ime a PPS pulse
[12:05] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Waiting for it to warm up - or maybe just for jcoxon to open the webpage and look, and report back.
[12:05] <Laurenceb_> thats true
[12:06] <daveake> Upu checked the SPOT page earlier. Nothing.
[12:06] <Laurenceb_> :-/
[12:06] <SpeedEvil> ah
[12:06] <Laurenceb_> who wants PPS on stm32?
[12:07] <SpeedEvil> I was wondering about GPS disciplingin.
[12:08] <Laurenceb_> ah
[12:08] <SpeedEvil> frac-n-synth chips are quite available.
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[12:08] Action: Laurenceb_ was lookijng at stm32f4 gps
[12:08] <Laurenceb_> i think its possible to have 16 channel now
[12:08] <MLow> i guess the radio i needed was a special order cause it aint on distributors website
[12:08] <MLow> pfff
[12:08] <SpeedEvil> And if you have a 10MHz osc, and know how many cycles it's actually doing per second - then it's trivial to recalculate dor the frac-n chip
[12:09] <fsphil> still no spot update
[12:09] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: you mean in software?
[12:09] <Laurenceb_> yes
[12:09] <Laurenceb_> its a bit counterintuative
[12:09] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: I've wondered abou thtat too.
[12:09] <MLow> i guess i'll look around for a radio module that will work
[12:09] <Laurenceb_> you have to use 1byte/sample
[12:09] <Laurenceb_> and its faster
[12:09] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: I was also wondering about bit-slicing.
[12:09] <Laurenceb_> as countones is so slow on arm cortex
[12:09] <SpeedEvil> It seemed plausible.
[12:09] <Laurenceb_> nope it about 3 times slower
[12:09] <Laurenceb_> *its
[12:10] <Laurenceb_> 1byte/sample seems fastest
[12:10] <MLow> backup plan, would have been good to have :|
[12:10] <Laurenceb_> but you convert to complex samples and decimate to ~2Msps
[12:10] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Bitslicing - as in doing multiple satellites at once
[12:10] <Laurenceb_> then 16 channels works ok
[12:10] <Laurenceb_> oh
[12:10] <Laurenceb_> thats lame
[12:10] <Laurenceb_> it decreases performance
[12:10] <SpeedEvil> http://www.darkside.com.au/bitslice/
[12:10] <MLow> Darkside: so you have a radio module with model 3
[12:11] <MLow> not 10
[12:11] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: hmm
[12:12] <MLow> HX1-144.390-10 does not exist apparently on their website
[12:12] <Laurenceb_> i think it gives you lots of speed with only a slight performance hit
[12:12] <Laurenceb_> ive worked out the asm and its possible for ~9MHz/channel
[12:12] Action: Laurenceb_ bbl
[12:12] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: I was also wondering about other things. for example if you correlate 8 bits (say) of PRN1, then it may match another 8 bits of PRN1
[12:12] <SpeedEvil> so you may be able to sum them bth at once
[12:12] <SpeedEvil> this gets possibly icky though
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[12:31] <natrium42> any word about SPOT?
[12:31] <daveake> Gone for walkies no news since yesterday evening
[12:32] <fsphil> yea still no updates
[12:32] <fsphil> it should have warmed up by now
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[12:33] <natrium42> gah
[12:34] <fsphil> the last update was at the french border
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[12:51] <SamSilver> railgun > http://www.gizmag.com/first-industry-railgun-prototype-launcher/21377/?utm_source=Gizmag+Subscribers&utm_campaign=c86cca24a7-UA-2235360-4&utm_medium=email
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[13:02] <griffonbot> Received email: Oliver De Peyer "Re: [UKHAS] launching in UK"
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[13:06] <UpuWork> Still no spot update
[13:06] <cuddykid> :(
[13:06] Action: cuddykid looks on the plus side - it could still be floating!
[13:08] <cuddykid> UpuWork: I've almost finished my eagle board (done the schematics) - would you mind just scanning over them as it's my 1st ever board! If you get a free moment? Cheers
[13:08] <cuddykid> I'll hopefully have it finished by around 4/5ish
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[13:13] <Upu> hey Cuddy sure
[13:14] <Upu> just mail it to me and ping me here will check when I'm home
[13:14] <Upu> afk now off out onsite
[13:17] <griffonbot> Received email: Jon Sowman "Re: [UKHAS] launching in UK"
[13:21] <eroomde> jonsowman: i might be able to cover the 28th in necessary
[13:21] <eroomde> although i'm not on the notam anymore iirc
[13:21] <eroomde> at least, i'm not receiving calls at 6.30 every morning from pilots about to head out to the field
[13:22] <jonsowman> eroomde: you are on the NOTAM
[13:22] <jonsowman> your phone number isn't but your name is
[13:24] <cuddykid> brilliant, thanks Upu
[13:25] <jonsowman> eroomde: you're still on the cusf-admin list aren't you?
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[13:26] <eroomde> i think so
[13:26] <eroomde> not really sure
[13:26] <jonsowman> eroomde: okay well i'll let you know if/when I hear from them
[13:27] <eroomde> the last thing i have is 'squirrel launch' on 10/2
[13:27] <eroomde> from you
[13:27] <eroomde> oh that's cusf-team
[13:27] <jonsowman> i can put you back on -admin if you like
[13:27] <eroomde> I guess i'm not on admin then
[13:27] <jonsowman> there's a lot of non-interesting rubbish
[13:27] <jonsowman> but your choice
[13:27] <eroomde> sure that would be useful
[13:27] <eroomde> i had 4 years of the non interesting rubbish :)
[13:27] <jonsowman> lol
[13:28] <jonsowman> what email address would you like signed up?
[13:28] <eroomde> gmail svp
[13:28] <jonsowman> righto
[13:28] <jonsowman> we should have a pub meeting at some point eroomde
[13:29] <cuddykid> I can probably get a notam for 27/28th - I originally sent off for one, David Miller says if I still need it then I just need to send him an email and he'll sort it
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[13:29] <jonsowman> eroomde: oh the srcf is down at the moment, i'll put you back on -admin once it's up again
[13:29] <jonsowman> cuddykid: where are you based?
[13:29] <cuddykid> jonsowman: notam will be for worcester area
[13:30] <eroomde> ta
[13:30] <eroomde> right, back to work
[13:30] <eroomde> ttyl
[13:30] <jonsowman> cuddykid: okay well if you want to let them launch under your notam you could reply and say so
[13:30] <GW8RAK> Afternoon. For anyone interested, there's an FT-790 on junksale.co.uk for £95
[13:30] <jonsowman> they can choose whether yourself or CUSF is more convenient for them
[13:30] <cuddykid> jonsowman: sounds a good plan, will do
[13:30] <cuddykid> and I could do with having something sent up (APM2 for testing)
[13:32] <jonsowman> cuddykid: okay cool
[13:32] <cuddykid> ahh, I thought 27/28 was weekend for some reason :S - turns out to be a mon/tues so I won't be able to do it
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[13:57] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hi
[13:59] <fsphil> hiya OZ1SKY_Brian
[14:00] <OZ1SKY_Brian> i see no new possitions from xaben :-(
[14:00] <fsphil> yea, it and the spot both seem to be dead
[14:01] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yes, what a shame
[14:01] <fsphil> annoyingly it could still be in the air
[14:01] <fsphil> but silent
[14:01] <OZ1SKY_Brian> but on the possitive side the launch did go far and did shake up some new trackers.
[14:02] <fsphil> absolutely. I've never seen the map as busy
[14:02] <OZ1SKY_Brian> i hope some of the "controlers" have writen up the trackers, so they can be alterted another time.
[14:03] <fsphil> yea. there definitely will be more flights like this
[14:03] <fsphil> I'm aiming for one in the spring
[14:03] <daveake> yep
[14:03] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yes i hope so too. most of the flights dont go very far, so i dont think alot of mainland european stations are aware of flooters
[14:04] <daveake> I'm going to ask DM for permission to launch 2 on the same day - one regular flight and one floater
[14:04] <fsphil> the language barrier is the biggest problem I suspect
[14:04] <OZ1SKY_Brian> only one ive had any rx on was apex
[14:04] <fsphil> I'm further north, so I suspect you may hear mine OZ1SKY_Brian
[14:05] <fsphil> though of course it depends on the wind
[14:05] <OZ1SKY_Brian> fsphil maybe one of the french trackers could translate the dl-fldigi setup page, would be very helpfull when getting new french trackers
[14:05] <OZ1SKY_Brian> fsphil that would be nice to hear
[14:07] <OZ1SKY_Brian> how far north are you phil ?
[14:07] <fsphil> 54.4 degrees
[14:07] <OZ1SKY_Brian> not seeing you on the track map
[14:08] <fsphil> 2I0VIM, middle of N.Ireland
[14:08] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ahh yes thats right, found you
[14:09] <fsphil> I think I'm about the same latitude as you
[14:09] <number10> I was think that a short guide fl-digi in French would have been good yesterday - I wonder if eroomde has some time to do something
[14:09] <OZ1SKY_Brian> im at 56.15N
[14:09] <number10> thinking
[14:11] <OZ1SKY_Brian> number10 yes french and german, then i think its coverd. maybe russian, a few flights did go that far, and i belive most of the older east european trackers know russian or can read it ?
[14:11] <fsphil> we should be able to have a localised version of dl-fldigi itself
[14:11] <fsphil> fldigi already has support for a couple of languages
[14:12] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ill be happy to translate it to danish, allthough most danes know english
[14:12] <OZ1SKY_Brian> we learn english from the 6 or 7 grade
[14:12] <gonzo_> and probably speak english better than we do
[14:12] <OZ1SKY_Brian> and we dont voiceover english programs unless it for small kids. that helps too
[14:13] <fsphil> yea, the level of language here can be appalling
[14:13] <OZ1SKY_Brian> gonzo_ LOL naahh dont think so
[14:13] <fsphil> I mean, just look at my spelling and grammer :)
[14:13] Action: fsphil waits for the correction
[14:13] <gonzo_> your grandma?
[14:14] <OZ1SKY_Brian> im sometimes told i have a funny mix of english,american and australian. i gess they are right, some words may mix together when talking :-)
[14:14] Action: daveake finds that resistance is almost futile
[14:15] <daveake> It's OK, fsphil, Number10 is 10 times worse :)
[14:15] <OZ1SKY_Brian> like lorry and truck etc.
[14:16] <number10> :)
[14:17] <OZ1SKY_Brian> im wondering, most of the launches, are they a "one man show" or is there a group or club that cash in ?
[14:17] Lunar_Lander (~gd-fermi@p54883549.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[14:18] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[14:18] <daveake> I think there are more one-man-show projects
[14:18] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hello Lunar_Lander
[14:18] <Lunar_Lander> did SPOT restart?
[14:18] <OZ1SKY_Brian> daveake ok i see
[14:18] <Lunar_Lander> hi OZ1SKY_Brian nice to see you again
[14:18] <daveake> no :(
[14:18] <OZ1SKY_Brian> no it didnt
[14:18] <Lunar_Lander> ohhh
[14:18] <daveake> LL you "well travelled" mission badge is on its way back to you :)
[14:18] <daveake> your
[14:18] <Lunar_Lander> thanks daveake :
[14:18] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[14:19] <daveake> It's been impregnated
[14:19] <daveake> with English Channel salt
[14:19] <Lunar_Lander> today I got an e-mail by the US project aether, they wanted info about regulations for balloons in germany, they said they found me in the UKHAS wiki :)
[14:19] <Lunar_Lander> cool daveake :)
[14:20] <number10> how come you were not tracking yesterday Lunar_Lander - you would be in an ideal location
[14:20] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Lunar_Lander they are collecting info about that on the ukhas page, so would be usefull of you could chip in
[14:20] <Lunar_Lander> OZ1SKY_Brian: scandinavia makes its way here, recently someone from Finland was here
[14:20] <Lunar_Lander> OZ1SKY_Brian: Project Aether?
[14:20] <Lunar_Lander> number10: yeah, I wasn't aware of it and my antenna and audio wire are still with Raul in Romania
[14:21] <Lunar_Lander> :(
[14:21] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yes i did see a OH in here
[14:22] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Lunar_Lander i mean info about regulations on ballon flights with radios in germany. i know there are a few hamradio launches in germany around summer. maybe they can answer the question or darc ?
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[14:23] <OZ1SKY_Brian> and then send it to ukhas, they are collecting it on http://ukhas.org.uk/general:european_regulations
[14:23] <Lunar_Lander> OZ1SKY_Brian: ah ok, yea I know about DFS and NOTAMs but got a friend who did flights with ham radio onboard
[14:23] <Lunar_Lander> I can ask him
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[14:24] <Lunar_Lander> and then add to the wiki OZ1SKY_Brian
[14:24] <Lunar_Lander> what I know is: NTX2 is OK in germany
[14:24] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yes sounds good lunar
[14:24] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[14:24] <Lunar_Lander> OZ1SKY_Brian: what do you think about starting a Danish HAB project?
[14:24] <Lunar_Lander> :)
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[14:26] <Lunar_Lander> hello DO1SEC
[14:27] <Lunar_Lander> let me guess, Ham License Class E?
[14:28] <Gavius> you're right DO is class E
[14:28] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Lunar_Lander was mainly thinking about the ukhas info page. They only ballon site i know of is in copenhagen at the danish metro office, its abit far from here.
[14:28] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[14:29] <Lunar_Lander> Gavius: :) are you from D also?
[14:29] <Gavius> yes
[14:29] <Lunar_Lander> nice to meet you
[14:30] <Lunar_Lander> and who is HI8NOD?
[14:30] <Gavius> tnx
[14:30] <Gavius> and where are you from?
[14:32] <Lunar_Lander> also Germany
[14:32] <Lunar_Lander> Osnabruck
[14:32] <Gavius> i see ... i am near bremen
[14:32] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[14:33] <Lunar_Lander> how did you get involved with HAB? yesterdays flight?
[14:34] <Gavius> yes, i saw it in a chat
[14:35] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[14:36] <Lunar_Lander> nice to have you hear
[14:36] <Lunar_Lander> *here
[14:36] <Lunar_Lander> I am working with the University of Osnabruck to fly my own balloon
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[14:38] <daveake> Chaps, feel free to add to my list - http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:things_not_to_do :-)
[14:39] <Lunar_Lander> we need cuddykids 1 million milliseconds error
[14:39] <daveake> I've only added ones I've actually made :)
[14:39] <Gavius> really ... i think that's a very interesting task
[14:39] <WillDuckworth> ....don't forget your balloon..... or payload ;)
[14:39] <daveake> Damn forgot that one :D
[14:40] <daveake> Added
[14:40] <Lunar_Lander> daveake: just thought about something, where WX probes are launched, there are special shelters for that
[14:41] <Lunar_Lander> if it might be worth it to erect such a structure at cambridge for example
[14:42] <daveake> Ask the Cambridge guys :-). I launch from my local village green. There is a village hall but it the doors aren't high enough to safely exit with a balloon!
[14:42] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[14:43] <Lunar_Lander> what would be cool
[14:43] <Lunar_Lander> having a round building with a movable door dome
[14:43] <Lunar_Lander> for launch, the dome opens and the balloon can ascend out
[14:48] <Lunar_Lander> OK have to go
[14:48] <Lunar_Lander> see you all later!
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[14:50] <Laurenceb> sup
[14:50] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: ping
[14:51] <SpeedEvil> ?
[14:54] <Laurenceb> yo - about sdr gps
[14:54] <SpeedEvil> ?
[14:54] <Laurenceb> my idea was to process samples as "complex bytes"
[14:54] <SpeedEvil> 4 bit I an Q?
[14:54] <Laurenceb> yes
[14:54] <Laurenceb> real and complex nibbles
[14:55] <Laurenceb> so input 1 bit samples arrive in spi at ~16mhz
[14:55] <Laurenceb> then bytes go to dma buffer at ~2mhz
[14:55] <Laurenceb> then some asm code runs over the buffer and swaps the bytes to complex nibbles using 256byte lookup table in ram
[14:56] <Laurenceb> once you have zero if complex nibbles at 2msps it becomes _way_ easier to process
[14:56] <Laurenceb> *IF
[14:56] <SpeedEvil> Hmm
[14:57] <SpeedEvil> you mean ~zero - or are you actually 'tuning'
[14:57] <Laurenceb> as the nibbles will just be in the range 0-3
[14:57] <Laurenceb> yes - 0+-10khz doppler
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[14:57] <Laurenceb> you can just add 32 bit word - ie 4 samples into a register 5 times without risk of overflow
[14:58] <Laurenceb> - after xor with the prn lookup table
[14:58] <SpeedEvil> yeah - I was thinking of something along those lines too for another variant
[14:58] <SpeedEvil> I was perhaps trying to be too clever with the bitslice stuff
[14:58] <Laurenceb> then you can use the thumb2 multiply-truncate instruction
[14:58] <Laurenceb> to add the nibbles into a word consisting of 2xuint16
[14:59] <Laurenceb> -well, together with a bit of clever masking
[14:59] <SpeedEvil> I don't think I go t that far
[14:59] <Laurenceb> it works out at 8clks every 5 words
[14:59] <SpeedEvil> I know I spent ages looking for instructions that could be perverted into countones.
[14:59] <Laurenceb> heh
[14:59] <SpeedEvil> There is of course a stupid hack.
[15:00] <SpeedEvil> Involving GPIO, resistors, and an ADC. :)
[15:00] <Laurenceb> the best thats every been done on arm cortex is 10clks for countones
[15:00] <Laurenceb> which is horrific
[15:00] <Laurenceb> then the way to deal with doppler is a "phasor rotate" operation
[15:01] <Laurenceb> on the "two uint16" complex integration bin
[15:01] <SpeedEvil> I was looking at something like 256 byte tables for countones
[15:01] <SpeedEvil> I diddn't really see a better way
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[15:01] <Laurenceb> that counteracts the dopper swapping up i and q
[15:01] <SpeedEvil> Maybe lack of imagination.
[15:02] <Laurenceb> i get ~8mhz/channel
[15:02] <Laurenceb> with inline thumb2
[15:02] <SpeedEvil> Hmm.
[15:02] <SpeedEvil> That's not really bad at all.
[15:02] <Laurenceb> yeah - 16channel on F4
[15:02] <SpeedEvil> It would be especially shiny as you can jam all the other sensors into the filter.
[15:02] <SpeedEvil> And indeed control inputs.
[15:02] <Laurenceb> byte tables are horribly slow
[15:03] <SpeedEvil> :)
[15:03] <Laurenceb> load from ram takes 2clks on cortex-m4
[15:03] <SpeedEvil> I diddn't get very far into it - several sheets of A4 really
[15:03] <SpeedEvil> yeah - latencies hurt
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[15:04] <Laurenceb> http://www.sciencezero.org/index.php?title=ARM:_Count_ones_%28bit_count%29
[15:04] Nick change: Brian_SKY -> OZ1SKY_Brian
[15:04] <Laurenceb> ^ still horribly slow
[15:04] <cuddykid> biggest packaging overkill! - Huge dhl box for 3 atmega328s! - Well, I guess that's whats inside anyway lol
[15:04] <cuddykid> time to find out
[15:06] <SpeedEvil> Neat! Don't I recall that thumb2 is slow?
[15:06] <Laurenceb> it depends
[15:06] <Laurenceb> most thumb2 micros underclk the flash
[15:06] <Laurenceb> e.g. stm32, flash is 64bits wide
[15:07] <Laurenceb> and runs at F_cpu/4
[15:07] <Laurenceb> so loading a 32bit variable from flash takes 2clkc
[15:07] <Laurenceb> tho - F4 has ART accel, which tries to run flash at max speed all the time, and precache instructions/data
[15:08] <Laurenceb> also has branch predict
[15:08] <SpeedEvil> Gucksocks.
[15:08] <cuddykid> the biggest ESD bag I've ever seen lol
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[15:08] <SpeedEvil> I hate byggy X drivers.
[15:08] <SpeedEvil> My GPU just hing.
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[15:11] <n900Evil> meh
[15:13] <Laurenceb> heh
[15:13] <Laurenceb> did you get what i said about thumb?
[15:14] <n900Evil> no
[15:14] <Laurenceb> most thumb2 micros underclk the flash
[15:14] <Laurenceb> stm32 has 64bit wide flash, and runs at F_cpu/4
[15:14] <n900Evil> Ah
[15:14] <Laurenceb> so loading a 32bit variable from flash takes 2clkc
[15:15] <Laurenceb> tho - F4 has ART accel, which tries to run flash at max speed all the time, and precache instructions/data
[15:15] <n900Evil> so alignment issues
[15:15] <Laurenceb> also has branch predict
[15:17] <Laurenceb> i wonder why fasttrax say they need a 300mhz+ arm to run sdr gps
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[15:17] <Laurenceb> tho they do say the code is 100% ansi c
[15:18] <SpeedEvil> Hmm.
[15:20] <eroomde> c'est superbe, le fl-digique, quoi?
[15:20] <eroomde> number10: ^
[15:20] <Laurenceb> heh
[15:20] <Laurenceb> 1)hack into fasttrax
[15:20] <Laurenceb> 2)break in raspberry pi hq
[15:21] <Laurenceb> 3) install fasttrax on raspberry pi
[15:21] <Laurenceb> 4)???
[15:21] <Laurenceb> 5)profit
[15:21] <SpeedEvil> Pi raises all sorts of fun options.
[15:21] <SpeedEvil> Webcam + pi + box = 50 quid iris recognition.
[15:21] <number10> its is indeed, eroomde. a nice little guide for potential french trackers would be good ;)
[15:22] <Laurenceb> how to surrender to a balloon?
[15:22] <daveake> lol
[15:22] <daveake> Makes a change from invading Belgium :)
[15:23] <Laurenceb> http://www.fastraxgps.com/
[15:25] <Laurenceb> http://www.fastraxgps.com/products/softwaregnss/
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[15:28] Action: Laurenceb bbl
[15:31] <cuddykid> a quick question for anyone who's used the uBlox6 footprint on Eagle - for one of the pads it seems to be impossible to get a line from it without it touching an adjacent pad?
[15:34] <cuddykid> oh, maybe not, just me being a noob
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[15:49] <Euthanasia> How about nuclear missiles? Those have high altitude, eh?
[15:50] <fsphil> fire away
[15:50] <Euthanasia> heh, don't tell Iran that.
[15:50] <daveake> no....! :)
[15:51] <Euthanasia> What do you think about nuclear weapons?
[15:51] <Euthanasia> Are they too inhumane to ever use?
[15:51] <daveake> still waiting for permission to launch mine
[15:51] <Euthanasia> Or do they serve a purpose
[15:51] <cuddykid> lol daveake
[15:52] <Dan-K2VOL> they serve the purpose just fine as propulsion in a nuclear pulse rocket
[15:52] <cuddykid> eagle people - can you run a top and bottom track straight down the same line?
[15:52] <Dan-K2VOL> yes
[15:52] <Dan-K2VOL> cuddykid, I can't remember any restriction preventing that.
[15:52] <cuddykid> brill, thanks
[15:53] <Euthanasia> Good point, Dan-K2VOL.
[15:53] <Euthanasia> I would love to see matter/antimatter annihilation research advanced to the point where we could use it to power rocketships
[15:53] <aetaric> smells like troll :)
[15:53] <Euthanasia> But that will be awhile, I suppose
[15:54] <Dan-K2VOL> Probably have to still be made by the youth in asia
[15:54] <Euthanasia> hah! I see what you did there.
[15:54] <Dan-K2VOL> :-P
[15:54] <aetaric> Dan-K2VOL: meetings are still at the same time, yeah?
[15:55] <Dan-K2VOL> yep dustin! did you get the email I just sent?
[15:55] <Dan-K2VOL> 8PM thurs
[15:55] <aetaric> yes i did, but like always i'm working tomorrow >.<
[15:56] <aetaric> i need a better day job >.<
[15:56] <Dan-K2VOL> lol working never prevented me from spending another 8 hours at the hackerspace
[15:56] <Dan-K2VOL> :-P
[15:56] <Dan-K2VOL> after work
[15:57] <aetaric> if i spent 8 hours after work there, i might as well live there XD
[15:57] <aetaric> and i think i'd pass out after 3-4
[15:58] <aetaric> well, off to work
[15:58] <Dan-K2VOL> well sometimes you have to put some serious time in for serious achievement - I just got a job based on the hard work I've put in on balloons, so food for thought!
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[16:10] <cuddykid> rfm22b shipped :D
[16:11] <daveake> rfm22b (and other stuff) shipped :)
[16:11] <daveake> When are you planning on working on that?
[16:14] <Euthanasia> Dan-K2VOL: What do you do, if you don't mind me asking?
[16:18] <Dan-K2VOL> electronics R&D
[16:19] <Dan-K2VOL> but well-documented work on balloons provides a good reference for one's capability
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[16:22] <Hibby> Dan-K2VOL: nice one
[16:22] <Hibby> leaving that nice office you were in?
[16:25] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah. How's the satellite station going hibby?
[16:26] <Hibby> Dan-K2VOL: terrible
[16:27] <Hibby> the building went on fire last week, so I'm out of the office in another building until all the damage is assessed
[16:27] <Dan-K2VOL> oh no!!
[16:27] <Hibby> luckily, the fire was about 3 floors below, but we're looking at smoke damage
[16:27] <Hibby> and I was running spacecraft attitude simulations on the HPC at the time the power was cut :/
[16:27] <Dan-K2VOL> ugh
[16:28] <Hibby> At the moment, I've returned to my job hunt (space sector is, it seems, hard to break into) and doing other less pressing things.
[16:29] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah
[16:31] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_0xifuTqVA
[16:32] <Hibby> "We need moar diesel!"
[16:32] <daveake> That thing probably registers on the nearest earthquake detector
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[16:41] <cuddykid> daveake: might fly it on the next flight - though my pcb incorporates the ntx2 rather than rfm
[16:41] <daveake> Was just wondering what days you might be doing the code ...
[16:41] <daveake> ... so I can arrange to be out :D
[16:41] <cuddykid> hahahahaha!
[16:41] <fsphil> lol
[16:41] <cuddykid> I'll give you advanced warning :P
[16:41] <daveake> thanks :)
[16:42] <cuddykid> #highaltitude goes from 98 to 1
[16:42] <cuddykid> just me ranting and raving about my bugs
[16:42] <daveake> I just used jcoxon's code, pretty much. No problems.
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[16:42] <cuddykid> eagle people -> do I have to pop a "hole" (x symbol) over the via when on the board layout?
[16:45] <fsphil> once you know eagle, you cease to become people
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[16:48] Action: daveake Deletes "Learn Eagle" from todo-list
[16:50] <cuddykid> lol - it's a real pain
[16:50] <cuddykid> almost there though
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[17:19] Action: zyp learned eagle :/
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[17:22] <Upu> welcome to the real world zyp
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[17:23] Action: Laurenceb is learning kicad
[17:23] <Laurenceb> or at least i was until i got bored
[17:23] Action: daveake is sniffing solder fumes
[17:24] <number10> work or hab daveake ?
[17:24] <daveake> work aksherley
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[17:25] <daveake> I used to sub out design and manufacture of some boards. Small quantities (5-25 off).
[17:25] <daveake> Subbie got himself a proper job
[17:25] <daveake> Thought I might as well do them myself
[17:26] <daveake> Makes a nice mental change from the usual work
[17:28] <number10> I was thinking (nott a good idea) - looking at the tracking distances achieved yesterday - I need more height, more gain and sensitivity
[17:28] <number10> -t
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[17:29] <daveake> Yeah, I was thinking the same at the weekend. Hence a raft of purchases :)
[17:30] <daveake> The extra height with that fishing pole thing really helped
[17:30] <SpeedEvil> Quadcopter on a string.
[17:31] <SpeedEvil> 500m antenna tower FTW!
[17:31] <zyp> I like eagle though, I've used it enough to know my way around it
[17:31] <zyp> I also like the command interface
[17:31] Nick change: AndroUser2 -> andrew_apex_mobi
[17:32] <number10> no too sure if 8m is high enough here
[17:32] Nick change: andrew_apex_mobi -> Andrew_apex_mob
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[17:34] <number10> there are some strange nicks here sometimes
[17:35] <daveake> number10 This was about 8m I guess - I didn't use the top section (too thin) or the bottom (wouldn't fit in the stand). The pole I ordered goes up to 8m but of course there's 3m on top of that for the Watdon
[17:36] <number10> are you going to get that 3m one?
[17:36] <daveake> Already did
[17:36] <daveake> £36
[17:36] Action: daveake hums "Stayin' Alive, Stayin' Alive"
[17:36] <number10> nice - presumably in post
[17:36] <number10> you blow the hab budget
[17:36] <daveake> Should be. So this week I get that, the transceiver and pole
[17:36] <number10> youve blown
[17:36] <daveake> Yep
[17:37] <daveake> +'
[17:37] <number10> :D
[17:39] <number10> you'll then need a purchase for the appropriate connectors and coax - there will be more to spend!
[17:40] <daveake> Got plenty of coax and BNC connectors and crimp tool
[17:40] <daveake> Need an SO239 (ISTR) for the antenna end
[17:40] <daveake> Which reminds me I need to buy one :)
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[18:03] <daveake> OK, so what comedian decided that a SO-239 and PL-259 fit together? I love RF connectors .. so many to choose from and so many confusing names and numbers
[18:06] <cuddykid> having a nightmare routing in eagle
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[18:08] <russss> US Army Signal Corps apparently
[18:08] <LazyLeopard> Presumably the original SO-239 and PL-259 were rather better engineered than 99% of the examples in circulation today?
[18:08] <russss> take it up with them
[18:08] <LazyLeopard> They're a hideous pairing...
[18:09] <cuddykid> Upu: when I pop vias on the board do I have to put a "hole" (x symbol) on top?
[18:10] <daveake> I remember my first 'scope had N type sockets on the front
[18:11] <daveake> I made adapters for that to go to BNC, to fit all the probes I had :)
[18:13] <LazyLeopard> N-types at least have a degree of free rotatability. PL-259s and SO-239s always seem to want to connect at the angle that puts the most strain on the cable...
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[18:16] <navrac> hi jcoxon - any more news?
[18:17] <jcoxon> navrac, no nothing
[18:17] <jcoxon> spot is quiet
[18:17] <daveake> I:(
[18:17] <navrac> :-(
[18:17] <jcoxon> yeah
[18:17] <jcoxon> i suspect hte SPoT itself turned off
[18:17] <cuddykid> :(
[18:17] <jcoxon> it needs to be tuned on again
[18:17] <navrac> was hoping for sudden message from russia!
[18:18] <jcoxon> a scenario that i didn't think of
[18:18] <daveake> Ditto. Is Off 100% off, or can it be pinged to wake it up?
[18:18] <jcoxon> daveake, its off - but all my tests it never happened
[18:18] <jcoxon> and i'm suprised it turned off
[18:19] <daveake> Sounds strange. What batteries? Could they just be too cold?
[18:19] <jcoxon> aa lithiums
[18:19] <daveake> damn
[18:19] <jcoxon> navrac, it still could
[18:20] <jcoxon> so if its too cold
[18:20] <navrac> hope someone finds it and switches it on to see what it does
[18:20] <daveake> When it's time to send a message, does it try for a while and then give up, or all all messages queued till it sees a satellite?
[18:20] <jcoxon> navrac, nah that won't happen
[18:20] <jcoxon> its not easy to turn on
[18:20] <jcoxon> i've hacked it quite a bit
[18:20] <jcoxon> daveake, it gives up
[18:20] <jcoxon> 20min timeout
[18:20] <cuddykid> that's annoying
[18:20] <jcoxon> but if its still floating
[18:21] <jcoxon> which it could - looking at the cnsp flight
[18:21] <daveake> OK, that's quite a long timeout then especially as you have it sending every 30
[18:21] <jcoxon> it could still be too cold
[18:21] <SpeedEvil> :/
[18:21] <navrac> now that would be cool if its still going
[18:21] <daveake> Well if it does land and send, it's gonna be a loong loong way away!
[18:21] <cuddykid> yep, it could well be still floating
[18:21] <cuddykid> "hello from ching chong land"
[18:21] <jcoxon> it'll email if it does
[18:21] <jcoxon> :-)
[18:21] <daveake> :)
[18:21] <cuddykid> that would be brilliant
[18:22] <Upu> hey cuddykid
[18:22] <cuddykid> hi Upu
[18:22] <Upu> no vias are a hole
[18:22] <cuddykid> having a little bit of a nightmare with eagle here lol
[18:22] <Upu> oh thats normal
[18:22] <cuddykid> ahh ok
[18:22] <Upu> if you're having a nightmare you're doing it right
[18:22] <cuddykid> I've got it down to 3 more routes that need to be routed if you get me!
[18:22] <Upu> tried autorouter ?
[18:22] <cuddykid> I can't really see any clear paths through! lol
[18:22] <cuddykid> yeah, auto router gave up a while back
[18:23] <Upu> this is where the fun begins
[18:23] <cuddykid> tried to really really slim it down - it's about 3.5cm by 7cm atm
[18:23] <Upu> one thing I would do is print a pin out of the AVR you're using off
[18:23] <Upu> work out what is plugged into where and arrange comps round that
[18:24] <Upu> if that makes sense
[18:24] <cuddykid> yeah
[18:24] <Upu> mail me your schematic
[18:24] <cuddykid> I'll upload a quick photo so you can see where I'm at now
[18:24] <Upu> ok
[18:24] <cuddykid> and I'll fire them off to you :)
[18:25] <Upu> fair warning I'm not the worlds greatest expert on Eagle/PCB's
[18:25] <cuddykid> no probs :P
[18:25] <OZ1SKY_Brian> i wonder, of someone finds SPOT and charge it, will we get a possition or is the ID lost due to low batt?
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[18:25] <cuddykid> http://i.imgur.com/kO4Fc.png
[18:25] <cuddykid> Upu ^
[18:26] <Upu> ok
[18:26] <cuddykid> it's a big mess lol
[18:26] <cuddykid> I'll email you current files and continue trying to route!
[18:26] <Upu> 1/ GPS
[18:27] <Upu> RF IN on GPS chip should be as close as possible to the actual antenna with no angles, routing RF through vias won't end well
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[18:27] <Upu> same with NTX2
[18:28] <cuddykid> ahh ok
[18:28] <Upu> 1 sec
[18:28] <Upu> no routes under the GPS chip
[18:28] <cuddykid> basically I need it as narrow as possible - but can compromise on length
[18:29] <cuddykid> oh no! eek
[18:29] <Upu> longer = more loss
[18:29] <Upu> I think the main issue is all the through hole components
[18:29] <cuddykid> I just need it < ~35mm width
[18:29] <Upu> you're not going to make a board that small using through hole
[18:29] <cuddykid> ahh ok
[18:29] <cuddykid> I suppose I could swap resistors out
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[18:30] <Upu> http://imagebin.org/198730
[18:30] <cuddykid> is there a way to rip everything up to start again?
[18:30] <Upu> yah delete the brd file :)
[18:31] <cuddykid> got ya
[18:31] <cuddykid> time to rearrange I guess!
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[18:31] <cuddykid> :(
[18:31] <Upu> your NTX placement is going to be tricky
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[18:31] <Upu> its going to touch the resistors
[18:31] <navrac> i alwys used to find that if i got close on board it is best to rip up and start again - but look at where the bottlenecks are and rotate chips etc - its quicker than you think
[18:32] <cuddykid> Upu: I think I'll let it stand upright
[18:32] <Upu> going to hit the header in that case
[18:32] <cuddykid> autoroute does a hell of a lot
[18:32] <Upu> and more worryingly the battery connector
[18:32] <cuddykid> Upu: 45degree angle? :P
[18:32] <cuddykid> orr
[18:32] <cuddykid> I could swap it out with rfm22b?
[18:32] <Upu> there is some space under the NTX2 to play with
[18:33] <cuddykid> got one of those coming in the next few days
[18:33] <Upu> back shortly need to put food on
[18:33] <cuddykid> but never tried and tested it
[18:33] <cuddykid> no probs
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[18:51] <cuddykid> hmm - the limiting thing here is the ntx2
[18:54] <priyesh> you could have the ntx2 bent at a right angle away from the pcb
[18:55] <priyesh> similar to how we did it on alpha : http://gallery.apexhab.org/index.php/Apex-Alpha/Payload/alpha-pcb
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[19:00] <cuddykid> priyesh - that's what I've got now - still limiting the width :(
[19:00] <cuddykid> to the width of ntx2
[19:00] <priyesh> oh right. i must have got confused with your layout then :P sorry
[19:01] <cuddykid> priyesh: I've changed it since :P
[19:01] <priyesh> ah
[19:01] <cuddykid> I want to get it as slim as poss - mainly because at some point in the future I'd like to stick it in the payload bay of a rockoon lol
[19:01] <Upu> cuddykid note priyesh's board is surface mount
[19:02] <cuddykid> Upu: can I roll with ntx2 at right angles to antenna? That would help if I could
[19:02] <cuddykid> and yeah, problem with the surface mount - I really don't think I'm going to be able to solder those tiny resistors!
[19:02] <Upu> you can do what you want and it will probably work but best practices say the feed needs to be straight really
[19:02] <priyesh> it's not too bad cuddykid :P
[19:03] <Upu> avoid sharp angles
[19:03] <priyesh> Upu: cuddykid: this is the next board. it's the apex iii core pcb: http://gallery.apexhab.org/index.php/Apex-III/Core/Soldered-PCB/DSCF6237
[19:03] <cuddykid> hmm
[19:03] <cuddykid> nice priyesh
[19:04] <Upu> got alot of connectors on the top :) Nice board
[19:04] <cuddykid> did you solder all of that by hand?!?
[19:04] <priyesh> Upu: yeah. this payload is modular so all the modules/sensors plugin at the top
[19:04] <Upu> ok
[19:04] <priyesh> cuddykid: yeah.. all hand soldered with a hot air station
[19:04] <cuddykid> bloomin ....
[19:04] <priyesh> (apart from the headers which would melt)
[19:04] <cuddykid> well done!
[19:04] <Upu> yeah :)
[19:05] <priyesh> and the SMA socket
[19:05] <cuddykid> the resistors currently do take up a lot of space on mine
[19:05] <cuddykid> what's the largest surface mount resistor type?
[19:05] <priyesh> if you have to, you could have the NTX on the back
[19:06] <cuddykid> now that's a though - but still doesn't get around width :( I think I'll just run with right angle connection to antenna
[19:08] <Upu> cuddykid
[19:08] <Upu> try this
[19:08] <Upu> make the board nice and big
[19:08] <Upu> get a feel for the program make one solder it etc
[19:08] <Upu> then move to SMT after this one and make it smaller
[19:08] <Upu> just an idea :)
[19:08] <Upu> walk before you can run etc
[19:09] <cuddykid> yeah
[19:10] <navrac> when you are talking about a right angle connection - are you talking about on the plane of the pcb? or just that with the ntx2 standing up it forms right angle?
[19:10] <cuddykid> navrac: plane of pcb
[19:11] <cuddykid> so ntx2 length ways but sma connector off the narrow end
[19:12] <navrac> well at 430mhz it isnt hugely critical - at 1500mhz its a disaster - but at 430 just take it at an angle to cut the corner - no more than 0.1db difference max
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[19:26] <cuddykid> i'll do that then
[19:28] <navrac> It isn't best practise - on an rf circuit board you wouldnt do it as all the errors add up - but this is just the pa output so i wouldnt worry
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[19:36] <Laurenceb_> hi
[19:40] <SpeedEvil> hi
[19:44] <Laurenceb_> oh i worked out the asm clk count for gps on M4
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[19:44] <Laurenceb_> 8.4MHz/channel, and 13MHz overhead for the input conversion
[19:44] <SpeedEvil> you basically just iterate over the buffer for all satellites?
[19:44] <Laurenceb_> leaving ~21MHz "free" on stm32f4
[19:45] <Laurenceb_> yes
[19:45] <SpeedEvil> If you don't prune of course
[19:45] <Laurenceb_> but use M2M DMA to populate
[19:45] <SpeedEvil> With good SNR, you might choose to skip half of the signal.
[19:47] <Laurenceb_> also if you have 2byte/sample, you can set the prn offset using the dma
[19:47] <Laurenceb_> *1byte/sample
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[19:47] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[19:48] <Laurenceb_> so dma the PRN buffer from flash to ram
[19:48] <SpeedEvil> err - what?
[19:49] <SpeedEvil> Why would it be in flash.
[19:49] <Laurenceb_> the PRN lookup table for the sat
[19:49] <Laurenceb_> thats worked out at compile time
[19:50] <SpeedEvil> ah
[19:50] <SpeedEvil> Why not just work it out from the taps?
[19:51] <cuddykid> Upu: can you do curved lines in eagle? And would they work with seeedstudio?
[19:52] <Laurenceb_> cuz taps in asm is horrible
[19:52] <Laurenceb_> cuddykid: sure
[19:52] <Laurenceb_> just swap the line tool in eagle
[19:52] <cuddykid> great and would that be better than a 90degree rf bend?
[19:53] <andrew_apex> cuddykid: yes, it is
[19:53] <cuddykid> cool, I'll do that
[19:53] <andrew_apex> cuddykid: from the board priyesh posted earlier: http://gallery.apexhab.org/index.php/Apex-III/Core/PCB/DSC02194
[19:54] <andrew_apex> see the curved track (surrounded by groundplane) in the bottom left
[19:54] <cuddykid> ahh I see :D
[19:54] <cuddykid> thanks :)
[19:54] <andrew_apex> that was done in eagle, btw
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[20:04] <cuddykid> Upu: I see on your board that there looks to be a ground plane across the whole board? Is that recommend/easy to do?
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[20:13] <Upu> yes and yes
[20:13] <Upu> polygon pour
[20:14] <Upu> talk you through it if you want
[20:16] <cuddykid> give me 30mins if that's ok with you? Just got to wash up, then want to swap my ntx footprint out for yours
[20:16] <Upu> not a problem at all
[20:16] <cuddykid> cheers :D
[20:23] <griffonbot> @LVL1WhiteStar: GoPro Hero ordered for SpeedBall-1, looks easy to interface, and lightweight! Iridium arduino commctrlr programming almost done too #UKHAS [http://twitter.com/LVL1WhiteStar/status/169154779929518082]
[20:24] <Upu> SPOT not checked in presumed dead
[20:30] <Laurenceb_> http://www.st.com/internet/com/press_release/p3273.jsp
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[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[20:36] <Lunar_Lander> spacenear.us doesn't work
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[20:37] <Upu> err works for me
[20:37] Lunar_Lander (~gd-fermi@p54883426.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[20:37] <Upu> err works for me
[20:37] <Lunar_Lander> sorry, was my own internet fault
[20:37] <daveake> We noticed :)
[20:43] <cuddykid> Upu: how did you manage to get antenna connector on other side of pcb? Did it just slot in the holes or was another eagle board created for the underside?
[20:43] <Upu> well they are just holes
[20:43] <Upu> holes is holes :)
[20:43] <Upu> but to place items on the flip side right click -> mirror
[20:44] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[20:44] <Lunar_Lander> what about making EUHAS?
[20:44] <Lunar_Lander> European High Altitude Society?
[20:44] <Upu> nah euro is bad look at Greece
[20:44] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: hahahahahha. I just realised how insane electronics has gotten. I clicked on the ST link - and my first thought was - wow - that's huge.
[20:44] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:45] <number10> we need trackers in germany Lunar_Lander :)
[20:45] <Lunar_Lander> yeah :)
[20:45] <Lunar_Lander> number10: raul said that he shipped my stuff back today
[20:46] <Lunar_Lander> so I get my audio wire and the antenna back
[20:47] <number10> that will be good, we can track across D then
[20:47] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:47] <Lunar_Lander> how much is a normal whip antenna?
[20:47] <Lunar_Lander> is it expensive?
[20:47] <Upu> Colinear is cheap
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander> I need one that has a screw-on socket
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander> so that it fits on the yaesu FT-790R
[20:49] <Upu> you can put whatever socket on you want
[20:49] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:50] <daveake> The FT-790R has a BNC, right?
[20:50] <number10> even if you made a 1/4 wave for 50 pfennigs would have helped
[20:50] <Lunar_Lander> I think so
[20:51] <Lunar_Lander> number10: yea
[20:51] <number10> inflation maybe 2 euros
[20:51] <Lunar_Lander> :P yea
[20:51] <number10> :)
[20:54] <daveake> LL What do you think of the 790?
[20:54] <Lunar_Lander> I liked it when listening to Apex Alpha
[20:54] <Lunar_Lander> I think it is a good radio
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> still runs on the first batteries I gave it
[20:55] <daveake> Good. I bought one :)
[20:55] <Laurenceb_> SpeedEvil: i was thinking about aquisition
[20:55] <Laurenceb_> i dont see why its so slow on most receivers
[20:55] <Laurenceb_> i think they must use the hardware correlators and "push" them through doppler/delay space
[20:56] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: yeah
[20:56] <Laurenceb_> using these benchmarks http://e2e.ti.com/support/microcontrollers/stellaris_arm_cortex-m3_microcontroller/f/473/t/44034.aspx
[20:56] <Laurenceb_> i get ~6s max to get a lock using fft
[20:56] <Laurenceb_> when i gps running in matlab i used fft->finer fft->pll
[20:57] <Laurenceb_> but apparently its better to have fft->fll->pll
[20:57] <Laurenceb_> and the pll can default to fll if it loses lock during normal tracking
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[20:57] <Laurenceb_> also you can do fll or pll with a complex correlator without changing anything - its just how the control loops work
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[21:00] <SpeedEvil> Interesting.
[21:00] <Laurenceb_> also very interesting discussion on pre caching and wait states
[21:00] <SpeedEvil> I wonder if they've just for some reason being avoiding FFT
[21:01] <SpeedEvil> Hmm.
[21:01] Action: SpeedEvil has an evil thought.
[21:01] <SpeedEvil> Patent?
[21:01] <SpeedEvil> I mean they're not using FFT as it's patented
[21:02] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[21:02] <Laurenceb_> i dont know
[21:02] <Laurenceb_> you could of course just do fft ack of the known sats at about 10hz
[21:02] <Laurenceb_> to tracking loops at all :P
[21:03] <Laurenceb_> but thatd be silly as you chuck a load of data
[21:03] <Laurenceb_> with dedicated fft hardware you could do aquisition in milliseconds
[21:04] <Laurenceb_> i dont see why it hasnt been done
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[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> sorry, just restarted
[21:08] <SpeedEvil> I can only assume patents.
[21:08] <SpeedEvil> Or maybe correlators are cheaper
[21:11] <Laurenceb_> http://www.gpstk.org/pub/Development/SwrxUpdates/3D_5_periods.png
[21:11] <Laurenceb_> with clean sky view i was seeing good peaks with a single period
[21:12] <SpeedEvil> you mean 1023?
[21:12] <Laurenceb_> yes
[21:12] <Laurenceb_> that looks typical
[21:12] <SpeedEvil> you would need to do ~12 to get all sats in view?
[21:13] <SpeedEvil> I mean - if you had prior knowledge.
[21:13] <Laurenceb_> aiui yes
[21:14] <SpeedEvil> If you only care about the 'clear sky' case, then you could lock very fast indeed.
[21:14] <Laurenceb_> each one is about 80ffts
[21:14] <Laurenceb_> yes
[21:14] <Laurenceb_> few seconds
[21:14] <Laurenceb_> -with stm32
[21:15] <Laurenceb_> is GPU processing possible on raspberry pi?
[21:16] Action: Laurenceb_ is thinking gpu-fft
[21:16] <SpeedEvil> No.
[21:17] <SpeedEvil> Well - maybe, but no.
[21:17] <SpeedEvil> It's not open.
[21:18] <SpeedEvil> I'm unsure how the camera interface could be used for highspeed digital data
[21:19] <Laurenceb_> surely unnecessary
[21:19] <Laurenceb_> ~8bit wide adc data would be crazy
[21:20] <SpeedEvil> I mean from a low CPU load POV
[21:20] <Laurenceb_> spi->dma
[21:20] <Laurenceb_> its all documented
[21:21] <SpeedEvil> ah
[21:22] <Laurenceb_> theres a datasheet now on the site
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[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> daveake: I think restarting sorted it
[21:25] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: It's really not
[21:25] <SpeedEvil> 200 pages of GPIO/serial info
[21:26] <daveake> Lunar_Lander I think you probably missed my comment that I bought an FT790R myself at the weekend
[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> I think I read that one
[21:26] <daveake> Ah ok :)
[21:26] <daveake> You disappeared just after
[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:27] <Lunar_Lander> but I jumped in your living room
[21:27] <Lunar_Lander> :)
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[21:30] <Upu> what did you have before daveake ?
[21:31] <Upu> because its not holding you back : http://i.imgur.com/mCKGJ.png
[21:31] <daveake> ooer :)
[21:31] <daveake> AR8000
[21:31] <Upu> cuddykid done you a video but YouFace is still processing it
[21:32] <daveake> That flight did kinda come my way for a while
[21:32] <Laurenceb_> lol seriously
[21:33] <cuddykid> oh awesome Upu :D thank you!
[21:33] <daveake> The AR8000 will be for the chase car and the Yaesu at home.
[21:36] <fsphil-laptop> graphs!!
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[21:38] <Lunar_Lander> ?
[21:38] <Upu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5q31JpknLY
[21:38] <Upu> quality isn't great sorry
[21:43] <Laurenceb_> POLYGON GND
[21:43] <Laurenceb_> is easier
[21:44] <cuddykid> thanks Upu :D
[21:44] <Upu> just typing it ?
[21:44] <cuddykid> btw, before I start the task of routing - is this looking ok? -> http://i.imgur.com/CI4AR.png
[21:44] <Upu> looks alot better
[21:45] <Upu> shuffle the GPS down make a straight path to the Sarantel
[21:45] <Upu> and
[21:45] <Upu> put a rectangle under the GPS, layer tKeepOut, duplicate it and do bKeepOut
[21:45] <Upu> so it doesn't route tracks under the GPS
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[21:47] <cuddykid> Upu: is this GPS location better? http://i.imgur.com/E4ByK.png
[21:47] <Upu> no up :)
[21:47] <cuddykid> oh :P
[21:47] <Upu> straight line from RF IN to the Sarantel
[21:47] <Upu> and rotate HEADERS 180
[21:48] <cuddykid> wasn't that nearish my 1st?
[21:48] <cuddykid> if I go up more than 1st I get...
[21:48] <cuddykid> http://i.imgur.com/1Kof0.png
[21:48] <Upu> you need a bit more board at the top
[21:48] <Upu> thats a locating notch
[21:48] <Upu> sec let me take a pic
[21:48] <cuddykid> ahh ok
[21:49] <cuddykid> why the rotation of headers?
[21:50] <Upu> http://imagebin.org/198768
[21:50] <Upu> lots of cross lines
[21:51] <cuddykid> ahh I see :D
[21:51] <cuddykid> http://i.imgur.com/sET7r.png ? and I'll change headers now :)
[21:51] <Upu> so you need something past it
[21:52] <Upu> yup and shuffle gps down a little or the sarantel up :) make the middle pin line up with the second pin down on the GPS
[21:52] <Upu> the 22pF caps should be close to the crystal
[21:52] <cuddykid> Upu: it jumps down - is there anyway to make the shuffle space a little smaller?
[21:53] <Upu> yeah grid spacing
[21:53] <Upu> View->Grid
[21:53] <cuddykid> thanks :) what's the correct spacing?
[21:54] <Upu> whatever fits for that antenna
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[21:54] <cuddykid> oh ok, there's nothing that seeedstudio will kick up a fuss about?
[21:54] <Upu> when you're all done you can run the Seed DRC file against the board
[21:55] <cuddykid> all done I think :D - just need to create the layer under GPS then I'll post a photo
[21:57] <cuddykid> Upu: http://i.imgur.com/UTwux.png
[21:58] <Upu> see the lines to the header are all straight now ?
[21:58] <cuddykid> yep :D thanks
[21:58] <cuddykid> time to set the autorouter?
[21:58] <Upu> save it :)
[21:58] <cuddykid> oh yeah.. lol
[21:58] <Upu> even though you can undo it in Eagle 6
[21:59] <Upu> you can't undo it after you come back to it
[21:59] <Upu> I would manually route the GPS to the Antenna
[21:59] <Upu> but punch it see what it makes of it
[22:00] <cuddykid> here we go & eek
[22:00] <cuddykid> it's put a route straight under the gps?!
[22:00] <cuddykid> in fact - 2 routes!
[22:00] <cuddykid> correction - 4!
[22:00] <cuddykid> red and blue
[22:01] <Upu> those rectangles under the GPS ? Layer was tKeepout and bKeepout ?
[22:01] <cuddykid> yep
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[22:02] <Upu> shouldn't have
[22:02] <cuddykid> Upu: http://i.imgur.com/D6Pgh.png
[22:03] <Upu> sorry
[22:03] <Upu> bRestrict / tRestrict
[22:03] <cuddykid> ahh :D
[22:03] <cuddykid> no probs
[22:04] <cuddykid> now it's worked :)
[22:04] <cuddykid> it hasn't done too bad a job either
[22:04] <Upu> 100% ?
[22:04] <Upu> no lines left ?
[22:05] <cuddykid> nah, there's about 5 left
[22:06] <cuddykid> a couple of big ones though
[22:06] <cuddykid> and around gps
[22:06] <Upu> what routing grid did you use ?
[22:06] <cuddykid> 50mil
[22:07] <Upu> Minimum trace width: 6mil (6/1000 inch);
[22:07] <Upu> Minimum trace/vias/pads space : 6mil (6/1000 inch);
[22:07] <Upu> Minimum silkscreen width : 4mil (4/1000 inch)
[22:07] <Upu> Minimum trace width: 6mil (6/1000 inch);
[22:07] <Upu> Minimum trace/vias/pads space : 6mil (6/1000 inch);
[22:07] <Upu> Minimum silkscreen width : 4mil (4/1000 inch)
[22:07] <Upu> Minimum trace width: 6mil (6/1000 inch);
[22:07] <Upu> Minimum trace/vias/pads space : 6mil (6/1000 inch);
[22:07] <Upu> Minimum silkscreen width : 4mil (4/1000 inch)
[22:07] <Upu> oops
[22:07] <Upu> sorry
[22:07] <cuddykid> lol
[22:08] <Lunar_Lander> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ci3bFOQ-4S4&feature=related
[22:08] <Laurenceb_> fail
[22:09] <cuddykid> Upu: so far - http://i.imgur.com/L7XDR.png
[22:10] <Upu> this is where the fun begins
[22:10] <Upu> though hole with small board
[22:10] <Upu> enjoy :)
[22:11] <Laurenceb_> btw, you can get those uSD cards from farnell and RS
[22:11] <Laurenceb_> -that fit sparkfun footprint
[22:11] <Laurenceb_> s/card/card holders
[22:13] <cuddykid> lol Upu :S
[22:13] <cuddykid> managed another decent sized one
[22:14] <cuddykid> this should replace the likes of sudoku in newspapers lol
[22:14] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:16] <cuddykid> Upu: is this too close? http://i.imgur.com/KbpCm.png (top right of 10uF text)
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[22:17] <Upu> possibly
[22:17] <Upu> you can run the DRC checks against it
[22:18] number10 (569a24ab@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.154.36.171) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[22:22] Nick change: MLow -> MLow-werk
[22:22] <MLow-werk> hey gang
[22:23] <fsphil-laptop> evening MLow-werk
[22:23] <MLow-werk> anyone know wtf i can get a radio for aprs
[22:23] <MLow-werk> and hi fsphil-laptop
[22:24] <fsphil-laptop> if you want to avoid the little modules, you could try one of the chinese handhelds
[22:24] <fsphil-laptop> they're not much more expensive
[22:24] <MLow-werk> eh, i have a wouxon, little on the heavy side
[22:25] <fsphil-laptop> the baofengs are very light
[22:26] <MLow-werk> hx1 is 4g
[22:26] <fsphil-laptop> yea, hard to beat that
[22:27] <cuddykid> Upu: is there anyway to do fancy stuff with vias and bottom layer to connect the 2 GPS antenna ground pads up?
[22:27] <Darkside> cuddykid: of course there is
[22:27] <cuddykid> :P
[22:27] <Darkside> if you're not using the bottom layer, you should have it filled with a ground pour
[22:27] <MLow-werk> seems like radiometrix has no way to order an hx1 with 10kbps model
[22:27] <cuddykid> problem is - when I place a via it slightly overlaps onto other pad
[22:28] <Darkside> cuddykid: then you need to change the via size
[22:28] <Darkside> MLow-werk: iteresting
[22:28] <Darkside> i managed to get our via our local distributor
[22:28] <Darkside> ours via*
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[22:28] <Darkside> MLow-werk: then again the one i got is a HX1-145.175-3
[22:29] <MLow-werk> the only us one doesnt carry it apparently
[22:29] <Darkside> so i dunno whats going on with yours
[22:29] <MLow-werk> the radiometrix website doesnt even show a 10kbps model
[22:29] <Darkside> again- my NBFM version works fine
[22:29] <cuddykid> argh, it won't let me connect up bottom layer route to via (on top layer pad)
[22:29] <cuddykid> keeps switching it back to top layer route
[22:30] <MLow-werk> Darkside: i get it your better than me GAHHH
[22:30] <Darkside> cant help you tehre cuddykid, i don'tknwo eagle
[22:30] <Darkside> MLow-werk: lol
[22:30] <cuddykid> Darkside: no probs :)
[22:30] <MLow-werk> eagle is easy
[22:30] <Darkside> i really dont know how my ones work and yours dont
[22:30] <MLow-werk> eagleCAD right?
[22:30] <MLow-werk> Darkside: again, clearly better than me
[22:30] <fsphil-laptop> nor me
[22:31] <fsphil-laptop> didn't the transatlantic flight use an hx1?
[22:31] <Darkside> hmm dunno fsphil-laptop
[22:31] <Darkside> oh wait, the K6RPT one?
[22:31] <fsphil-laptop> yea
[22:31] <Darkside> they used somethin gelse
[22:31] <fsphil-laptop> the one that didn't die
[22:31] <Darkside> the big reg bee tracker uses something similar to an ADF7012 i think
[22:32] <fsphil-laptop> ah it could have been that
[22:32] <Darkside> i remember chatting to someone here who knew how they worked
[22:32] <MLow-werk> yeah bigredbee is what they used
[22:32] <Darkside> its the byonics ones that use the HX1 modules
[22:33] <Darkside> MLow-werk: http://www.byonics.com/images/mt-300.png
[22:33] <Darkside> check that out
[22:33] <Darkside> byonics uses a HX1-144.390-3
[22:34] <MLow-werk> http://www.byonics.com/mt-300
[22:34] <MLow-werk> lol i was googling too ...
[22:34] <MLow-werk> not likely they will reveal their secret
[22:34] <MLow-werk> but it sounds more like radiometrix are full of shite
[22:35] <MLow-werk> playing off that i got a bad one blaming it on wrong model
[22:35] <Darkside> you only got one?
[22:35] <Darkside> if you want something cheaper to play with, i think theres a 100mW version on that frequency, the TX1H
[22:36] <MLow-werk> price isnt the problem really...i mean im frugal
[22:37] <fsphil-laptop> you may need to get another one, at least to rule out a faulty module
[22:37] <cuddykid> yes! routed the biggest one :P
[22:38] <fsphil-laptop> I love it when people beat Eagle :)
[22:38] <Darkside> pff
[22:38] <Darkside> I prefer my expensive commercial CAD tools
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[22:40] <Upu> its got its weaknesses but with the EagleUp addon for the money its a bargin
[22:41] <cuddykid> almost done!!
[22:41] <cuddykid> 2 more!
[22:41] <cuddykid> I can see the path - sort of lol
[22:42] <cuddykid> 1 more..
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[22:42] Nick change: daveake_ -> daveake
[22:43] <cuddykid> Upu: http://i.imgur.com/ieR4g.png any way of vias and bottom route?
[22:43] <cuddykid> doesn't like it when I try
[22:43] <Upu> ah thats a little anomaly
[22:44] <Upu> I get that too
[22:44] <Upu> do a copper pour pour on the top layer
[22:44] <Darkside> cuddykid: you'rte going to want to move that NEO-6q away fro the edge of the board a bit
[22:44] <Darkside> thats way yoo close
[22:44] <Darkside> too*
[22:44] <Upu> then rats nest again
[22:44] <Darkside> its going to be very hard to solder
[22:44] <Upu> yeah there isn't much space
[22:44] <cuddykid> oh bloody hell! lol
[22:45] <Darkside> and yeah, you really want a ground pour, and vias under the NEO-6
[22:45] <Darkside> its whats reccomended by ublox
[22:45] <cuddykid> if I do a copper pour on the top layer, will that affect any of my top layer routes?
[22:47] <Darkside> also you can route tracks under the NEO-6Q cuddykid
[22:47] <Upu> don't tell him that
[22:47] <Upu> I told him not too :)
[22:47] <cuddykid> :S lol
[22:47] <Darkside> Upu: ground is fine
[22:47] <cuddykid> I've done it without - all good
[22:47] <Darkside> though it should be a ground pour
[22:47] <cuddykid> Darkside: is it really going to be a nightmare to solder? I don't want to have to start all over if possible!
[22:48] <Upu> its tight
[22:48] <cuddykid> this is the board at the moment - http://i.imgur.com/SW3Ph.png
[22:48] <Upu> needs a fine tip
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[22:48] <cuddykid> If I do it first, it should be easier?
[22:49] <Upu> You do need to move the Sarantel a little further away 2-3mm
[22:49] <Darkside> ok no
[22:49] <Darkside> thats bad cuddykid
[22:49] <Darkside> those crystal traces are WAY too loing
[22:49] <Darkside> log
[22:49] <Darkside> long*
[22:49] <Darkside> ugh
[22:49] <cuddykid> oh :(
[22:49] <Upu> lol
[22:49] <Darkside> you cannot have them that long
[22:49] <Upu> he can't even type he's so angry :)
[22:50] <cuddykid> lol
[22:50] <cuddykid> ahhhhhhh
[22:50] <cuddykid> bloody eagle
[22:50] <Darkside> serioud
[22:50] <Darkside> you need to rethink your board layout a bit
[22:50] <cuddykid> right - so crystal close to atmega and power?
[22:50] <Upu> close to the pins that do the XTAL
[22:50] <Upu> how are you programming this ?
[22:51] <cuddykid> you'll love this - removing the chip each time
[22:51] <Darkside> theres no ISP headers on that pcb
[22:51] <Darkside> bad
[22:51] <cuddykid> and popping it in arduino
[22:51] <Darkside> you'll break off the pins
[22:51] <Upu> no no no :)
[22:51] <Upu> bad cuddykid
[22:51] <cuddykid> I've got a few chips
[22:51] <Upu> put a head on it
[22:51] <Upu> header
[22:51] <cuddykid> but I can't run ISP and SD card?
[22:51] <Darkside> cuddykid: of course you can
[22:51] <cuddykid> Upu: yeah, I've got a holder thing that will go in the place
[22:51] <cuddykid> Darkside: only 1 set of MOSI/MISO/SS pins?
[22:52] <Darkside> just tie the SD cards chip select pin to ground
[22:52] <Darkside> with a resistor
[22:52] <Darkside> or just don't plug in a bloody SD card whyen programmig
[22:52] <cuddykid> Darkside: and they're connected up to same atmega pins?
[22:52] <Darkside> yes
[22:52] <cuddykid> ok
[22:53] <cuddykid> that sounds a bit better
[22:53] <cuddykid> right, I'll try all this tomorrow!
[22:54] <cuddykid> how far in from pcb edge does ublox need to be?
[22:54] <Lunar_Lander> 2 kilometers
[22:54] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[22:54] <cuddykid> 2.5 Lunar_Lander ;)
[22:54] <Darkside> cuddykid: far enough that you can reasonably solder it
[22:54] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:54] <fsphil-laptop> you can never be too careful :)
[22:54] <cuddykid> problem is - I don't think I will be able to solder it even if it is 2km in :P
[22:55] <Darkside> cuddykid: look at some of Upus breakout designs
[22:55] <cuddykid> I'll do a new design tomorrow
[22:55] <Darkside> that should give you an idea
[22:56] <cuddykid> yeah
[23:01] <MLow-werk> i guess i will have to order another hx1?
[23:01] <Upu> do you have the NEO-6 already cuddykid ?
[23:02] <cuddykid> no Upu
[23:02] <Upu> use a MAX-6 chip instead then
[23:02] <Upu> you could just put a header on there and use one of my breakouts
[23:02] <Upu> job done
[23:03] <cuddykid> is it same size pads?
[23:03] <Upu> smaller
[23:03] <Upu> in my library
[23:03] <Upu> I'm putting a shop up this week and they will be cheaper than you can get them from Alphamiro
[23:03] <Upu> micro
[23:06] <cuddykid> brill
[23:06] <Lunar_Lander> drill!
[23:06] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[23:06] <cuddykid> that's a thought - however, I would like to have it all on one board
[23:06] <fsphil-laptop> phil!
[23:06] <cuddykid> you're such a joker Lunar_Lander!
[23:06] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[23:06] <fsphil-laptop> he's the space cowboy
[23:06] <cuddykid> haha
[23:06] <Lunar_Lander> today I got an email from the Project Aether
[23:07] <Lunar_Lander> and they asked what regulations for balloons there are in germany
[23:07] <Lunar_Lander> said they found me on the UKHAS wiki :)
[23:07] <Upu> right I'm off
[23:07] <cuddykid> same, toodle
[23:07] <cuddykid> *toodles
[23:07] <Upu> still nothing from spot
[23:07] <fsphil-laptop> night guys
[23:07] <Upu> nn all
[23:07] <Lunar_Lander> gn8 Upu and cuddykid
[23:07] <cuddykid> cya Lunar_Lander
[23:08] <fsphil-laptop> the hinge on my DS is broke, and I'm not sure if I should fix it or get a 3DS
[23:11] <MLow-werk> Upu: you lose something with a spot onboard?
[23:12] andrew_apex (~chatzilla@188-220-169-100.zone11.bethere.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[23:12] <MLow-werk> or just emailed spot or something
[23:13] <Lunar_Lander> hello andrew_apex
[23:13] <andrew_apex> hi Lunar_Lander
[23:13] <fsphil-laptop> there was a flight at the weekend with a spot MLow-werk
[23:13] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
[23:14] <andrew_apex> good thanks :) finally got my balloon tracking station sorted here
[23:14] <MLow-werk> ohhh who flew?
[23:15] <andrew_apex> and I passed my intermediate radio exam the other day too
[23:15] <andrew_apex> how's everything going with you?
[23:15] <fsphil-laptop> MLow-werk, jcoxon and rocketboy -- had a spot and an rtty beacon
[23:15] <fsphil-laptop> aim was a long range floater -- it floated but both trackers failed
[23:15] <fsphil-laptop> last heard somewhere over germany
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[23:16] <Lunar_Lander> well done andrew_apex!
[23:16] <Lunar_Lander> I'm good, thanks
[23:16] <fsphil-laptop> congrats andrew_apex :)
[23:17] <andrew_apex> thanks fsphil-laptop
[23:17] <fsphil-laptop> how'd you find it?
[23:17] <andrew_apex> pretty easy (I'm second year electronic engineering @ southampton uni)
[23:17] <andrew_apex> so just a little licencing stuff to remember
[23:17] <MLow-werk> intermediate? is that the 2nd tier?
[23:17] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:18] <andrew_apex> back in about 5 minutes :)
[23:20] <MLow-werk> well grats andrew_apex
[23:20] <MLow-werk> rtty ? really?
[23:20] <MLow-werk> that's kinda a throw-back
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[23:21] <Darkside> MLow-werk: most people here use rtty
[23:21] <MLow-werk> huh..
[23:21] <Darkside> on their payloads i mean
[23:22] <Darkside> because everyone here is set up to receive it
[23:22] <Laurenceb_> MLow-werk: as opposed to?
[23:22] <MLow-werk> aprs is pretty popular over here
[23:22] <Darkside> and it has a far greater range than AFSK at the same output power
[23:22] <Darkside> MLow-werk: in the UK they cant do ham radio stuff in the air
[23:22] <Laurenceb_> we are limited to 10mw
[23:22] <Darkside> so they have to stay within the ISM bands, and yes, 10mW
[23:22] <MLow-werk> ah
[23:22] <Laurenceb_> aprs wouldnt stand a chance at those power levels
[23:22] <Laurenceb_> we could use a custom psk mode or something
[23:22] <MLow-werk> no it would just be limited in range pretty good
[23:22] <Darkside> 10mW goes a hell of a long way with RTTY
[23:22] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:22] <Laurenceb_> but itd be harder for hams
[23:23] <Lunar_Lander> I received it indoors with a whip antenna over 260 km
[23:23] <Laurenceb_> and we can use off the shelf modules for rtty
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[23:23] <fsphil-laptop> we've done pretty with with rtty -- good speed, range and even images
[23:23] <Laurenceb_> ive used mfsk-64
[23:23] <Laurenceb_> and dominoex has been used
[23:24] <Laurenceb_> in my experience mfsk-64 is useful if you want greater data rate than 50baud rtty
[23:25] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil-laptop: the next challenge will be biological experiments on HAB
[23:25] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[23:25] <daveake> I had to remove a spider from my first payload. Would that have counted
[23:25] <daveake> ?
[23:26] <Lunar_Lander> xD yea
[23:26] <Laurenceb_> biological?
[23:26] <Laurenceb_> you mean hab rule 34?
[23:27] <Lunar_Lander> what is rule 34?
[23:27] <Laurenceb_> oh dear...
[23:27] <Laurenceb_> something from 4chan
[23:27] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[23:27] <Laurenceb_> hehe
[23:27] <Lunar_Lander> biological is like capturing bacteria
[23:27] <Lunar_Lander> got a contact to the Uni Cranfield for that
[23:27] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[23:27] <Laurenceb_> "say no more"
[23:28] Nick change: soafee-chan -> spacekitteh
[23:28] <Lunar_Lander> I watched the world football championship final of the women
[23:28] <Lunar_Lander> and then Japan did the last penalty shot and won
[23:28] <Lunar_Lander> a second later, an E-Mail from the Cranfield researcher arrived
[23:28] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[23:30] <MLow-werk> that kinda pisses me off that the byonics one uses a 3kbps module when i cant get mine to work and radiometrix says I "Have" to use a 10kbps module for aprs
[23:32] <fsphil-laptop> I didn't realise there where different versions
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[23:37] <andrew_apex> back
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[23:44] <fsphil-laptop> re
[23:53] <MLow-werk> i was not aware either
[23:54] <MLow-werk> i just ordered what they had on the website
[23:54] <MLow-werk> doesnt say there is a 10kbps model available for special order or anything
[00:00] --- Tue Feb 14 2012