highaltitude.log.20120211

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[00:56] <nigelvh> MLow: My HX1 modules just came in the mail, so I'll dink with one a bit and see if I can't get it working.
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[08:07] <jcoxon> morning all
[08:11] <daveake> morning. All ready for tomorrow?
[08:11] <daveake> You'll be needing some warm clothing :)
[08:12] <jcoxon> yeah
[08:12] <jcoxon> shame its not to day as its so incredibly calm
[08:12] <jcoxon> it shouldn't be too bad tomorrow
[08:20] <jcoxon> does anyone use the old version of dl-fldigi
[08:20] <jcoxon> i'm wondering if we should move it from the tracking guide
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[08:27] Action: griffonbot is GriffonBot [http://github.com/ssb/griffonbot]
[08:27] Action: griffonbot is following: #ukhas #cusf #atlasballoon #projecthorus #HABE2
[08:27] Action: griffonbot is tracking emails sent to ukhas@googlegroups.com
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[08:36] <Upu> morning
[08:36] <jcoxon> hey Upu
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[08:37] <Upu> yeah its lovely out there
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[08:37] <Upu> totally still just got back from walking dog
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[08:40] <jcoxon> right i better go and do something useful
[08:40] <jcoxon> bbl
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[09:39] <spacekitteh> has anyone here used AGI Satellite Tool Kit?
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[09:58] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/deep-cycle-battery-solar-power-wind-turbine-heavy-duty-/330684493100?pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_Batteries_SM&hash=item4cfe54ed2c - do not want!
[09:58] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[10:36] <Darkside> hmm
[10:37] <Darkside> dammit jcoxon isnt here
[10:37] <Upu> morning Darkside
[10:38] <Darkside> i'm thinking teh NCP1402 isnt going to meet my current consumption needs for my PSU board
[10:38] <Darkside> morning Upu
[10:38] <Upu> 200mA ?
[10:38] <Darkside> 200mA with 2V input and 3V output
[10:38] <Darkside> i need approx 150mA with 1.5V input
[10:40] <Darkside> i need to be able to power the AVR, the ublox module, and the RFM22B off it
[10:40] <Darkside> i'm thinking i'm not going to have a choice but to put anotehr TPS61000 on the PCB...
[10:40] <Upu> anyone know where I can buy one of these : http://www.flickr.com/photos/arms22/4296981982/
[10:41] <Upu> is there a more powerful version of the NCP1402 ?
[10:41] <Upu> 1404 does 350mA
[10:41] <Darkside> hmm
[10:41] <Darkside> that might work
[10:41] <Upu> POWER!
[10:42] <Darkside> http://octopart.com/partsearch#search/requestData&q=NCP1404
[10:42] <Darkside> or not
[10:42] <Upu> well there are datasheets for it
[10:42] <Darkside> if part does not show up on octopart, do not buy it
[10:43] <Upu> reason ?
[10:43] <Darkside> because irts going to be damn near impossible to get hold of
[10:44] <Upu> ok
[10:44] <Darkside> octopart indexes all of the major part providers: digikey, mouser, farnell, avnet, etc
[10:44] <Darkside> if they don't have the part you need, worry
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[11:18] <cuddykid> morning
[11:19] <cuddykid> my atmega chips are now in Ohio :D
[11:20] <SpeedEvil> Oh!
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[12:22] <Laurenceb_> is the balloon on aprs?
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[12:42] <Darkside> isnt that tomorrow
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[12:44] <WillDuckworth> got a weird issue: when transmitting first couple of chars, the ntx is right off frequency so get missed - any ideas?
[12:46] <Darkside> are you enabling the NTX2 each time?
[12:46] <WillDuckworth> it's hardwired to be enabled
[12:46] <Darkside> hrmm
[12:46] <Darkside> it should work then...
[12:46] <WillDuckworth> that's what i thought
[12:47] <WillDuckworth> this happens when powered on USB and battery
[12:47] <WillDuckworth> and/or
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[12:52] <fsphil> what does the ntx2 transmit when idle?
[12:54] <WillDuckworth> it's just a tone on the end of the loop
[12:54] <WillDuckworth> only for a second
[12:55] <fsphil> is it drifting a lot?
[12:56] <WillDuckworth> yep - about half way on the waterfall - just enough to be a problem
[12:58] <fsphil> that's quite a lot
[12:59] <fsphil> I don't think it should do that unless it lost power, or the EN pin was being toggled
[12:59] <WillDuckworth> i might look back at the loop part of the code. Thanks anyway - i'll let you know how i go
[13:00] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/LpiKg.jpg
[13:00] <Darkside> ok, rev 2 of the dual-rail power supply pcb
[13:01] <Darkside> using 2x TPS61200 ICs
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[13:17] <Darkside> ok thats cool
[13:17] <Darkside> in changing the design, i've got the cost per board by $9
[13:17] <Darkside> now works out to $12.30 per pcb
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[15:08] <Upu> ping jcoxon
[15:08] <Upu> Where abouts in Suffolk ?
[15:08] <Upu> is the launch ?
[15:10] <jcoxon> hey Upu
[15:10] <jcoxon> 52.1208, 0.8139
[15:10] <Upu> I was going to update the landing predictions tomorrow morning but thinking about it not much point if you're trying to float ?
[15:11] <Upu> I'll update them anyway in case it doesn't float
[15:11] <Upu> cheers
[15:11] <jcoxon> yeah good plan
[15:11] <jcoxon> also we might launch a second
[15:11] <Upu> ok
[15:17] <jcoxon> have btoadband at hte launch site now
[15:17] <jcoxon> which makes life so much easier
[15:19] <Upu> yeah
[15:19] <Upu> If you launch from Elsworth get a Three data sim
[15:19] <Upu> I was getting 3-4Mb/sec from there
[15:20] <Upu> when we were doing that streaming
[15:25] <jcoxon> shall we put hte kt5tk-11 floater on spacenear.us
[15:25] <jcoxon> i've got a script that can do it for us
[15:25] <Upu> sure
[15:25] <Upu> is it up already ?
[15:25] <jcoxon> not yet
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[15:45] <RocketBoy_S2> ha - the match has bern abandoned ere
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[15:47] <nigelvh> MLow: You 'round?
[15:48] <RocketBoy_S2> Bbl
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[16:15] <nigelvh> fsphil: you round?
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[16:17] <fsphil-laptop> hiya nigelvh
[16:19] <nigelvh> Got my HX1s yesterday. Hooked one up last night. I'm getting the same issue with the 2200hz tone not modulating as much as the 1200hz tone, but my packets are decoding. I've got a picture of my scope showing the input levels, and a video of the computer on my blog k7nvh.com
[16:19] <nigelvh> So, 1, thanks for your original help, and 2. looks like MLow still has something wrong.
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[16:20] <fsphil-laptop> I've not measured it, but I think my own has a quieter 2200hz tone
[16:20] <fsphil-laptop> probably just the way the filter works on the hx1
[16:22] <nigelvh> Yeah, that's what it's looking like. Now to figure out how to adjust either the 2200hz up, or the 1200 down. It is decoding, but it would probably be a bit more robust if they matched a bit better.
[16:23] <fsphil-laptop> I'll have to check mine, I don't remember it being that dramatic
[16:24] <nigelvh> Yeah, certainly an interesting issue, but my scope does show my input levels from both tones are the same.
[16:25] <fsphil-laptop> the video was from a receiver?
[16:26] <nigelvh> Yeah, receiver, into audio of laptop
[16:26] <nigelvh> I didn't take video, but none of the other local APRS has the issue, so it's unlikely to be the receiver.
[16:27] <fsphil-laptop> I mean this video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OrLLq67mek
[16:28] <nigelvh> Yeah, that's what I meant. This video is of the received signal from the HX1, I didn't take video of any of the other local APRS traffic, but it doesn't show the same issue.
[16:29] <fsphil-laptop> trying to record mine here
[16:31] <fsphil-laptop> I can hear some very weak packets
[16:32] <fsphil-laptop> they always seem to be there, but I've never figured out where they are coming from
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[16:35] <nigelvh> What frequency are you on?
[16:36] <jcoxon> grrrr i can't find the active element to myyagi
[16:36] <jcoxon> my yagi*
[16:36] <jcoxon> not good
[16:37] <eroomde> the one infront of the reflector?
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[16:37] <jcoxon> yeah
[16:38] <jcoxon> and my cable
[16:38] <jcoxon> its weird as everything else is in my boot
[16:38] <fsphil-laptop> nigelvh, 144.800
[16:39] <nigelvh> Hmm. I was thinking if it was up in the 70cm band it could be cars. We get lots of activity around 434 from Part 15 devices (Weather stations, car alarms, etc) and a lot of them can sound like packet.
[16:41] <fsphil-laptop> nigelvh, http://i.imgur.com/GB11v.png
[16:42] <fsphil-laptop> 2200hz tones are definitely weaker, but not as dramatic a difference as yours
[16:42] <nigelvh> Yeah& Hmm.
[16:45] <fsphil-laptop> unless there's a difference between the eu and us versions other than just frequency?
[16:45] <nigelvh> I can't think of a good reason for there to be.
[16:45] <fsphil-laptop> yea
[16:46] <fsphil-laptop> you could modify the waveform bit of the trackuino code to output the 1200hz tone with less amplitude
[16:47] <nigelvh> I don't use the trackuino code. I have a Bell202 modem ic that specifically generates same amplitude phase correct 1200 and 2200hz tones.
[16:47] <nigelvh> Though that would be an option for MLow
[16:48] <fsphil-laptop> ah yes
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[16:49] <nigelvh> Anyway, I gotta head out for a while. Maybe I'll catch MLow later and pass along the news.
[16:49] <fsphil-laptop> I can't predict his reaction
[16:50] <nigelvh> Suppose we'll have to wait and see.
[16:50] <fsphil-laptop> :)
[16:51] <nigelvh> Also, as a tip, don't use a metal screwdriver, or at least insulate it, when adjusting the deviation pot. If you short it to the case, you'll release some smoke. Mine still works, in seemingly the same way, so maybe I just overheated a resistor or something.
[16:52] <fsphil-laptop> eek!
[16:52] <fsphil-laptop> I've adjusted a 434mhz module
[16:54] <nigelvh> Should be fine. Just be careful.
[16:54] <nigelvh> Anyway, got to go. Later.
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[18:24] <Laurenceb_> looks like KT5TK-11 is on the move
[18:25] <jcoxon> Laurenceb_, i've forwarded the aprs feed to spacenear.us
[18:25] <jcoxon> for a bit more balloon details
[18:25] <Laurenceb_> awesome
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[18:32] <NigeyS> is that the flight heading for china James ?
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[18:34] <jcoxon> yeah
[18:34] <Laurenceb_> how can it head that direction?!
[18:34] <Laurenceb_> tropospheric not stratospheric?
[18:34] <jcoxon> Laurenceb_, the long way round
[18:35] <Laurenceb_> oh lmao
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[18:36] <jcoxon> its more that they are going to float for as long as possible
[18:36] <jcoxon> i really hope the plan with the ISS works out
[18:37] <Upu> they are hopeing ISS will receive it ?
[18:37] <jcoxon> so mid atlantic it'll switch to aprs on hte ISS freq
[18:37] <Upu> wow
[18:37] <Upu> this I can't wait to see
[18:37] <daveake_> wow
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[18:37] <jcoxon> and then when it reaches europe it'll switch to 144.800
[18:38] <Upu> epic shame its going to miss us but I'm watching out for it
[18:38] <daveake_> Does spacenear have an ISS icon? :p
[18:38] <jcoxon> oh now that is something i can do
[18:38] <jcoxon> one sec
[18:39] <Upu> I have an icon
[18:39] <Upu> one in wxtrack
[18:39] <jcoxon> hold one one sec
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[18:39] <jcoxon> going to do something cool
[18:40] <Upu> http://www.satsignal.eu/software/wxtrack.htm#icons
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[18:44] <jcoxon> oh its not working
[18:44] <jcoxon> i once got spacenear.us tracking hte iss
[18:45] <Upu> that would be quite cool
[18:45] <jcoxon> i'll keep on it
[18:45] <Upu> import from http://www.n2yo.com/
[18:45] <Upu> ?
[18:46] <Upu> Launch in a few hours
[18:46] <Upu> this should be interesting
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[18:55] <Upu> http://pastebin.com/8FVE2xkW
[18:55] <Upu> does that help jcoxon
[18:56] <jcoxon> oooo
[18:56] <jcoxon> i'm on the case
[18:56] <jcoxon> just following an idea i've started on
[18:56] <Upu> its an example on network linking in Google Earth that just happens to use ISS as the example
[18:56] <Upu> sure
[19:03] <NigeyS> sudo /lib/udev/ata_id --export /dev/sr0
[19:03] <NigeyS> ach soz
[19:03] <jcoxon> eek
[19:03] <Upu> -> /dev/fail
[19:03] <NigeyS> lol yes! i blame this manflu!
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[19:14] <Laurenceb_> heh it came from Bellaire
[19:17] <fsphil> jcoxon, is that going straight to spacenear.us or via habitat?
[19:18] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) joined #highaltitude.
[19:18] <fsphil> (the aprs KT5TK-11 stuff)
[19:18] <jcoxon> straight to spacenear.us
[19:18] <jcoxon> though it could go to habitat
[19:18] <jcoxon> but i'd have to make a profile
[19:18] <jcoxon> fsphil, is that a problem?
[19:19] <fsphil> nah, just curious
[19:19] <jcoxon> oh right
[19:19] <jcoxon> the script is on my github
[19:21] <jonsowman> hi jcoxon
[19:22] <jcoxon> jonsowman, oh no worries, old question (if you are reply to my ping)
[19:22] <jonsowman> ah ok, no probs
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[19:24] <Laurenceb_> http://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=29.725812,-95.50106&spn=0.018932,0.042186&t=m&z=15&layer=c&cbll=29.725733,-95.501076&panoid=g_z25WxAZR0N0uUPbJu3wg&cbp=12,173.68,,0,15.43
[19:24] <Laurenceb_> they forgot their helium
[19:27] <oh7lzb> no launch yet?
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[19:27] <Laurenceb_> not for an our or so
[19:27] <Laurenceb_> *hour
[19:27] <Upu> hey oh7lzb about an hour and half i think
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[19:28] <Upu> we are mirroring the APRS to www.spacenear.uk
[19:28] <Upu> err
[19:28] <oh7lzb> cool
[19:28] <Upu> www.spacenear.us
[19:28] <oh7lzb> I'm currently running on a single DB machine serving the web servers
[19:28] <oh7lzb> in the middle of moving stuff to a new server... I hope that'll be ok :)
[19:28] <Upu> how many web servers ?
[19:29] <oh7lzb> two
[19:29] <Upu> sounds about right
[19:29] <jcoxon> oh7lzb, do you run aprs.fi?
[19:30] <oh7lzb> the new box has a DB already running synchronised, but it's a new DB version and the code running on the web servers won't run against that
[19:30] <oh7lzb> in the middle of upgrading just about everything, so...
[19:30] <oh7lzb> yes
[19:30] <jcoxon> cool
[19:31] <number10> 70[
[19:31] <oh7lzb> event such as this won't cause much DB load though, everyone will be looking at the same target and that'll be cached in memcache
[19:31] <Upu> jcoxon is trying to overlay ISS on spacenear.us
[19:31] <Upu> did your traffic go up noticably with the last one ?
[19:34] <oh7lzb> yes, there was a nice traffic spike in the evening and in the moring
[19:34] <oh7lzb> a lot of people kept up all night long tracking it
[19:34] <jcoxon> hehe
[19:34] <oh7lzb> or left the browser open :)
[19:34] <jcoxon> we'll post it on spacenear.us as well
[19:35] <oh7lzb> I didn't get much sleep either :)
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[19:40] <Dan-K2VOL> what's launching?
[19:40] <Upu> all sorts
[19:41] <Upu> KT5TK floater going for transatlantic
[19:41] <Upu> afternoon Dan
[19:42] <fsphil> oh7lzb, is there a way to compress the altitude for aprs?
[19:42] <Elwell> log scale
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[19:50] <oh7lzb> fsphil: compressed format can transmit altitude, compressed log scale
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[19:50] <oh7lzb> well, not compressed, but more tightly encoded anyway, and in log scale
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[19:55] <fsphil> thanks oh7lzb n' Elwell, checking the spec now
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[20:01] <Laurenceb_> so... why do they think this thing is going to float for so long?
[20:01] <jcoxon> underfilled howyee
[20:02] <jcoxon> very similar to the k6rpt-11 launch that crossed the atlantic
[20:03] <Laurenceb_> with hydrogen?
[20:04] <jcoxon> He
[20:04] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[20:04] Action: Laurenceb_ unconvinced
[20:04] <jcoxon> Laurenceb_, we've seen it a number of times
[20:04] <jcoxon> Apex floated to russia from the UK
[20:04] <Laurenceb_> sure
[20:04] <jcoxon> the china bit is a joke
[20:05] <Laurenceb_> but you need very long duration to get far
[20:05] <jcoxon> they are just going to ride the fast winds
[20:05] <Laurenceb_> well we'll find out soon
[20:05] <Laurenceb_> i suspect hydrogen helps protect the envelope
[20:05] <Laurenceb_> possibly by being reducing
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[20:17] <fsphil> that would be an interesting test to try some day
[20:25] Nick change: Laurenceb_ -> epicfail
[20:27] Nick change: epicfail -> Laurenceb_
[20:42] <jcoxon> bingo!
[20:43] <jcoxon> ping natrium42
[20:43] <jcoxon> Upu, i did it!
[20:43] <Upu> lol
[20:43] <Upu> its a balloon :)
[20:43] <jcoxon> yeah
[20:43] <jcoxon> lets get natrium42 to fix that
[20:43] <jcoxon> change the icon and remove the track
[20:43] <Upu> thats quite easy I think
[20:43] <Upu> thats really good
[20:43] <jcoxon> phew that was a challenge
[20:43] <Upu> lol
[20:44] <jcoxon> in the end i got a lib to calculate the position
[20:44] <jcoxon> rather than pull it
[20:44] <Upu> check the code for Icarus, he changed it to Rob hnaging under a balloon
[20:44] <Upu> ok
[20:44] <daveake_> Nice :D
[20:44] <Upu> its accurate too just comparing with WXtrack :)
[20:44] <Upu> have a beer jcoxon :)
[20:45] <jcoxon> hehe
[20:45] <Upu> lol
[20:45] <Upu> ISS altitude
[20:45] <Upu> :)
[20:45] <daveake_> lol
[20:45] <jcoxon> nah its wrong
[20:45] <jcoxon> as we put a block on altitudes over 45km
[20:45] <jcoxon> to distinguish mistakes
[20:45] <Upu> 418000 m
[20:46] <daveake_> max
[20:46] <Upu> thats correct
[20:46] <jcoxon> but now its 45000m
[20:46] <Upu> wxtrack indicates Alt : 418.3km
[20:46] <Upu> ah ok
[20:46] <daveake_> If it changes to a parachute, worry
[20:46] <Upu> lol
[20:46] <jcoxon> actually the alt is hard coded
[20:46] <Upu> going to make a lovely track shortly
[20:47] <Laurenceb_> lol
[20:47] <Laurenceb_> haha
[20:48] Action: daveake_ tries to think of another suggestion to keep jcoxon busy :p
[20:48] <fsphil> pancakes
[20:48] <jcoxon> hehe
[20:48] <jcoxon> i work best when pushed for random projects
[20:48] <jcoxon> its so dirty
[20:48] <daveake_> mmmpancakes
[20:48] <fsphil> lol
[20:48] <daveake_> :)
[20:49] <jcoxon> the position is calculated with python
[20:49] <jcoxon> and then uploaded with perl
[20:49] <jcoxon> (i know that with time i could merge them)
[20:49] <BrainDamage> the scripts glued together in bash
[20:50] <BrainDamage> and results served on a php server
[20:50] <Upu> ok natrium42 when you're back
[20:50] <Upu> tracker/icons/iss.png
[20:51] <Upu> might have lost the background transparency 1 sec
[20:53] <Upu> fied
[20:53] <Upu> fixed
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[20:56] <citrus> Hi
[20:56] <jcoxon> hi citrus
[20:56] <citrus> where's the best place to read on this hobby?
[20:56] <jcoxon> try wiki.ukhas.org.uk
[20:56] <citrus> if you dont mind telling..i'm very interested in joining in
[20:57] <jcoxon> especially for UK stuff but there is loads of good info
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[20:57] <citrus> ah. been through that.
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[20:57] <citrus> are there any books?
[20:57] <citrus> any more sources?
[20:57] <jcoxon> well the best source is the internet
[20:57] <jcoxon> there aren't any published books i can think off
[20:58] <Upu> the Wiki is probably the best source of info , though accepted it is a little overwhelming at first
[20:58] <citrus> do you mind if i ask a couple of questions i couldn't quite grasp the answer to..after reading
[20:58] <jcoxon> citrus, oh yes
[20:58] <jcoxon> here is the best place for that
[20:59] <Upu> jcoxon if you can find the code where it uses tracker/images/markers/balloon-rob.png that will have the code that replaces the icon
[20:59] <jcoxon> on the case now
[20:59] <citrus> Dl-fldigi
[20:59] <Upu> best icon ever : http://spacenear.us/tracker/images/markers/balloon-rob.png
[20:59] <citrus> does that track the arduino chip?
[21:00] <daveake_> Upu lol
[21:00] <Upu> I think you need to take a few steps back citrus
[21:00] <Upu> let me explain how it works
[21:00] <Upu> you have a few parts to a balloon launch
[21:00] <Upu> the payload
[21:00] <Upu> which is the bit going up , usually contains a radio transmitter, camera , GPS etc
[21:00] <Upu> next you have a radio on the ground listening
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[21:01] <citrus> ok
[21:01] <Upu> plugged into the radio you have the PC which decodes the transmission into location data
[21:01] <Upu> which it then uploads to www.spacenear.us/tracker so you can see where your payload/balloon are on the map
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[21:02] <Upu> the Arduino/whatever microcontroller you use generally takes the data from the GPS Chip, temp sensors etc, turns it into a standard telemetry string
[21:03] <Upu> and then transmits it via the radio
[21:03] <Upu> standard telemetry string is just a line of text
[21:03] <Upu> like this : $$AVA,22,17:09:00,53.752465,-1.817828,266,4,25.0,25.0,1440,0.50,G*726C
[21:04] <citrus> ah
[21:04] <citrus> ok
[21:05] <Upu> best advise we can give you is subscribe to the mailing list
[21:05] <Upu> hang about on here
[21:05] <citrus> ok
[21:05] <Upu> and break the project down into separate parts
[21:05] <citrus> gotcha
[21:05] <Upu> i.e work out how to link a radio to the Arduino (clue check wiki)
[21:05] <jcoxon> eek just broke the tracker
[21:05] <Upu> work out how to read from the GPS chip
[21:06] <Upu> looks ok to me jcoxon :)
[21:06] <Upu> work out how to read temps sensors
[21:06] <Upu> then put it all together
[21:06] <daveake_> looks ok here too
[21:06] <citrus> thx Upu.. just wondering.. where do i sign up to the mailing list
[21:06] <daveake_> search ukhas on google groups
[21:07] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/ukhas:mailing_list
[21:07] <Upu> Are you UK based citrus ?
[21:07] <Laurenceb_> launch yet?
[21:08] <Laurenceb_> no data :S
[21:08] <russss> it sounds like a diagram might be useful for the understanding of the distributed tracker system
[21:08] Action: russss fires up omnigraffle
[21:08] <fsphil-laptop> didn't Tim have a diagram?
[21:08] <russss> I didn't spot one on the wiki
[21:08] <russss> ah wait, I missed it.
[21:08] <russss> http://hollandshoogte.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/hohoho-i-schematic.jpg
[21:08] <jcoxon> his is quite busy
[21:09] <jcoxon> perhaps a simpler
[21:09] <Upu> Tim's isn't that bad actually
[21:09] <Upu> did he really use a 5/8ths antenna ?
[21:10] <fsphil-laptop> not sure even Tim knows that :)
[21:10] <Upu> lol
[21:10] <Upu> Your main stumbling block citrus is going to be the radio receiver
[21:11] <jcoxon> Upu, refresh spacenear.us
[21:12] <jcoxon> everyone refresh spacenear.us
[21:12] <fsphil-laptop> "These are the voyages..."
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[21:13] <daveake_> I love it when a plan comes together :)
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[21:13] Nick change: Lily -> Jessica_Lily
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[21:14] <Upu> superb :)
[21:14] <Laurenceb_> iss just crashed
[21:14] <daveake_> ISS = Incredibly Swift Software (mods)
[21:14] <Upu> jcoxon fixed the altitute :)
[21:15] <fsphil-laptop> he has the power to do that now
[21:15] <fsphil-laptop> screw gravity
[21:15] <daveake_> gravity is overrated
[21:16] <fsphil-laptop> the atlantic is pretty big -- even if the iss repeated one of their packets, it would still be out of range of the uk
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[21:17] <jcoxon_> oh thats why it didn't work
[21:17] <jcoxon_> lost internet
[21:17] <Upu> why did Tim have 2 GPS units ?
[21:18] <Upu> so many whys with Tim's project :)
[21:18] <Upu> wb
[21:18] <citrus> the radio receiver stumbling block..Upu? how so?
[21:18] <daveake_> ISS seems to have gone thru a chicane at the equator
[21:18] <Upu> they are expensive
[21:18] <Upu> daveake thats where jcoxon decided to reduce its altitude
[21:19] <daveake_> ah
[21:19] <Upu> generally you need some sort of amateur radio rig
[21:19] <Upu> and a new Yaesu FT-817 is about £550
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[21:19] <Upu> however you can get older units on E-Bay for about £100
[21:20] <Upu> on a side note when Rob asked me what projects it thought would be a good idea my second idea was a £50 kit radio that could receive 70cms SSB for balloon launches but I digress
[21:20] <Upu> projects for this Farnell compo
[21:21] <Upu> citrus take a look at http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[21:21] <citrus> thx
[21:21] <Upu> this shows the launches as they happen, currently there is a balloon about to go up in the US
[21:21] <Upu> and tomorrow about 10am jcoxon is launching from the UK
[21:23] <Upu> however that is ISH time
[21:24] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/ish
[21:24] <jcoxon_> Upu, it'll be very ish
[21:24] <Upu> :)
[21:24] <daveake_> lol not seen that page before
[21:24] Action: daveake_ adds a line or two to the list ...
[21:25] <Upu> open wiki edit as you wish
[21:25] <Upu> daveake you're about the only person who gets off on time
[21:25] <daveake_> :)
[21:25] <daveake_> Bit late last time on account of forgetting the balloon
[21:26] <Upu> well fsphil beat you too it
[21:26] <Upu> he forgot the payload once
[21:26] <daveake_> I know :D
[21:27] <daveake_> I bought some large plastic low-profile boxes today, one for launch stuff and another for chase stuff. These will be marked up with what is supposed to go in them :)
[21:28] <daveake_> wiki updated :)
[21:29] <jcoxon_> Launch
[21:29] <daveake_> It didn't affect the launch, but we were late starting the chase on account of a flat car battery :p
[21:30] <Upu> good luck KT5TK-11
[21:30] <daveake_> +1
[21:31] <Upu> citrus this balloon thats launching from the USA is a bit different as its likely to float and come across the atlantic
[21:31] <Upu> the ISS is on the map as its possible it may relay its position via it
[21:32] <fsphil-laptop> payloads are overrated :)
[21:33] <fsphil-laptop> some people have even launched without a payload
[21:35] <citrus> Upu how do you do predicted flight path?
[21:35] <citrus> +upu
[21:35] <Upu> http://habhub.org/predict/
[21:36] <Upu> and you can get data for burst etc http://www.cusf.co.uk/calc/
[21:39] <jcoxon_> the refresh is quite slow
[21:40] <jcoxon_> as the payload is only tx'ing every 2 mins
[21:41] <citrus> how do you calculate the target ascent rate?
[21:41] <jcoxon_> with that calc you can do either or
[21:41] <citrus> thanks guys
[21:43] <Upu> fsphil http://imagebin.org/198457
[21:43] <Upu> http://imagebin.org/198458
[21:44] <Upu> Note TX modules correctly labelled now :/
[21:44] <Upu> Soz NigelMoby
[21:45] <Upu> thats a super slow ascent rate
[21:45] <jcoxon_> yeah nicely underfilled
[21:49] <Laurenceb_> very slow
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[21:52] <Upu> there you go live prediction
[21:52] <Upu> gives an idea which way its going
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[21:58] <jcoxon_> this is going to be a long flight
[21:59] <Upu> yeah just a bit
[22:00] <Upu> going to take 8 hours to get to altitude
[22:00] <jcoxon_> i better migrate my iss code to habhub
[22:12] <citrus> amazing?
[22:12] <citrus> :)
[22:12] <citrus> *looks in disbelief*
[22:12] <citrus> at spacenear.us
[22:12] <Upu> this is an odd one citrus
[22:12] <Upu> normally balloons go up ~ 5m/s
[22:12] <Upu> pop
[22:12] <Upu> and come down
[22:13] <citrus> so what happened?
[22:13] <citrus> to this particular one?
[22:13] <Upu> well under certain circumstances they can be made to float at altitude
[22:13] <citrus> ah. right. gotcha.
[22:13] <Upu> i.e using a low ascent rate etc
[22:13] <Upu> put simply less gas
[22:13] <jonsowman> or if there's an R in the month
[22:14] <Upu> its not an exact science
[22:14] <citrus> :))))
[22:14] <Upu> the Hwoyee 1600g balloons tend to do what they want anyway
[22:14] <Upu> this launch is a deliberate attempt to float
[22:14] <Upu> so also launched at night
[22:15] <jcoxon_> Upu, 3pm on the ground
[22:15] <Upu> no sun less expansion or something like that
[22:15] <jcoxon_> okay iss tracking switched to habhub
[22:15] <citrus> ah
[22:15] <Upu> ok sun going down then
[22:17] <Laurenceb_> i hope it doesnt come down when the sun sets
[22:18] <citrus> what's the general standing on the silver foil balloons? what's their lift/purpose?
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[22:18] <Upu> 18:07 local time
[22:18] <Upu> sunset
[22:18] <jcoxon_> citrus, very low altitude and light payloads
[22:18] <jcoxon_> not easy
[22:18] <Upu> current time 16:18 local
[22:19] <Upu> 2 hours
[22:19] <Upu> right dog walk afk
[22:20] <jcoxon_> ping RocketBoy_S2
[22:20] <Laurenceb_> we needs some mylar balloons
[22:21] <Laurenceb_> not nylon film
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[22:30] <citrus> +upu amateur time question: how is spacenear.us tracking the balloons
[22:30] <citrus> :/
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[22:31] <jcoxon_> citrus, lots of ways
[22:31] <jcoxon_> the balloon in the US is being tracked by a system called APRS
[22:31] <jcoxon_> which is an autotmated system
[22:31] <jcoxon_> the XABEN flight will be tracked by dl-fldigi which is by volunteers
[22:32] <jcoxon_> lots of different ways
[22:33] <fsphil-laptop> tracking is my favourite way to get involved with a launch -- less stress and less travelling :)
[22:33] <oh7lzb> APRS is run by volunteers too :)
[22:33] <jcoxon_> yes of course
[22:33] <jcoxon_> perhaps less involved
[22:39] Nick change: MLow -> MLow-werk
[22:39] <citrus> would you recommend an arduino mega as a starting board?
[22:40] <jcoxon_> perhaps an arduino uno
[22:40] <jcoxon_> the mega is expensive
[22:40] <Upu> Over powered tbh
[22:40] <citrus> could you recommend an easy-to-get-through no programming guide to a first? someone's blog?
[22:40] <citrus> (thx)
[22:40] <Upu> there is a list of projects here : http://ukhas.org.uk/frontpage:projects
[22:40] <Upu> most have blogs etc
[22:41] <Upu> quick question citrus how old are you and where are you based ?
[22:42] <citrus> i'm 24yrs old. i'm based in stafford.
[22:43] <citrus> you?
[22:43] <citrus> :)))
[22:43] <Upu> old
[22:43] <Upu> ish
[22:43] <Upu> Halifax :)
[22:43] <citrus> ah. right.
[22:43] <Upu> don't know anyone close to you
[22:43] <Upu> 39
[22:44] <citrus> well.. thanks for the thought
[22:44] <Upu> do you have access to a radio for receiving ?
[22:44] <fsphil-laptop> I've heard of Stafford. that's about as close as I get :)
[22:44] <citrus> i'm starting from scratch.
[22:44] <citrus> looking into buying the stuff
[22:45] <citrus> ...can't decide what to get.
[22:45] <citrus> :)))
[22:45] <Upu> well do ask on here first
[22:45] <Upu> so we can help get the right stuff
[22:45] <Upu> the most expensive bit is the radio
[22:45] <Upu> after that its just bits
[22:45] <citrus> yaesu's 300-400..it's extreme.
[22:46] <Upu> yeah not cheap
[22:46] <fsphil-laptop> tis- and not worth it unless you want to get involved in amateur radio too
[22:46] <citrus> i got an am radio license a while back
[22:46] <citrus> never put it into any use
[22:46] <fsphil-laptop> aah
[22:46] <citrus> that's where the interest comes in
[22:46] <citrus> :)))
[22:46] <fsphil-laptop> something to considerer perhaps
[22:47] <fsphil-laptop> the ft-790's where popular, but have recently jumped in price too
[22:47] <Upu> its always the sticking point is the cost of the radio and being blunt you'll struggle without one
[22:47] <Upu> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yaesu-FT-790R-70cm-Multimode-Radio-Faulty-/190637794552?pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_SpecialistRadioEquipment_SM&hash=item2c62e5e4f8
[22:49] <fsphil-laptop> reduced power? they're already pretty reduced when they work :)
[22:49] <Upu> ascent rate jumped on KT5TK-11
[22:49] <Upu> assume thats TX
[22:49] <Upu> which means no issues with RX
[22:50] <fsphil-laptop> yea
[22:50] <Upu> worth the risk ?
[22:50] <Upu> £75 is a bargin
[22:50] <fsphil-laptop> it's the cheapest one I've seen for a while
[22:50] <fsphil-laptop> a totally dead one sold for £60ish last week
[22:51] <Upu> oh I have an idea fsphil
[22:51] <Upu> I'll install Sketch up on the VM so you can use it on that
[22:51] <jcoxon_> quite close ISS pass coming up
[22:51] <citrus> i'm tempted...i'll have to add it on
[22:51] <jcoxon_> not sure if its setup to chat to this one
[22:51] <citrus> what are the requirements for a radio?
[22:52] <fsphil-laptop> that would work
[22:52] <Upu> has to do SSB on 70 cms ( 434Mhz)
[22:52] <citrus> thx
[22:57] <Laurenceb_> looks like it hit a some slight weather
[22:57] <Laurenceb_> around4km
[22:58] <Laurenceb_> why is the same altitude sent multiple times?
[22:58] <jcoxon_> yeah
[22:58] <jcoxon_> Laurenceb_, which map are you watching?
[22:58] <Laurenceb_> spacenear
[22:59] <jcoxon_> its probably my system for polling the aprs
[22:59] <jcoxon_> network
[22:59] <Laurenceb_> ah
[22:59] <jcoxon_> its pretty rusty
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[22:59] <fsphil-laptop> you could probably connect to aprs-is directly, filter just that one callsign
[22:59] <fsphil-laptop> ah no wait, then you'd need to do all the parsing too
[23:00] <jcoxon_> i'm polling db.aprsworld.net
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[23:04] <citrus> how did it get over america so fast?
[23:04] <citrus> :o
[23:04] <citrus> ISS
[23:04] <citrus> it was over new zealand 30mins ago
[23:04] <jcoxon_> its orbiting!
[23:05] <citrus> at that pace?
[23:05] <citrus> gosh
[23:05] <citrus> :)))
[23:05] <jonsowman> if it weren't it'd be falling
[23:05] <jonsowman> :)
[23:05] <Upu> things in orbit go quick :) 90 mins to go all the way round
[23:05] <Upu> technically it is falling jonsowman :)
[23:05] <MLow-werk> i think i need to change the timezone of my server
[23:05] <citrus> 90mins
[23:05] <jonsowman> yes Upu
[23:05] <Laurenceb_> wtf
[23:05] <MLow-werk> it's different that wher eim at
[23:05] <Upu> oh hey MLow-werk
[23:05] <citrus> :)))
[23:05] <jonsowman> arguably true
[23:05] <Laurenceb_> did it just go into a tornado
[23:05] <citrus> fascinating
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[23:05] <Upu> Nigelvh got HX1 working
[23:06] <Laurenceb_> 10.066km
[23:06] <jcoxon_> Laurenceb i wonder if alt is being weird
[23:06] <Laurenceb_> oh wait 10.666
[23:06] <Laurenceb_> its in hell
[23:06] <Upu> Louisina isn't that bad
[23:07] <Laurenceb_> but its the altitude of the devil
[23:07] <Laurenceb_> wtf
[23:08] <Laurenceb_> altitude has gone crazy
[23:08] <Laurenceb_> did something fall off?
[23:08] <jcoxon_> it'll be a reporting issue
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[23:14] <citrus> +upu another question if you don't mind
[23:14] <Upu> shoot
[23:14] <citrus> iss..
[23:14] <Upu> yes
[23:15] <citrus> is that the international space station
[23:15] <Upu> it is indeed
[23:15] <citrus> is that that what we're referring to.
[23:15] <citrus> right.
[23:15] <jcoxon_> citrus, thats not normall there, i added it for this weekend
[23:15] <citrus> now it all makes sense.
[23:15] <citrus> :)
[23:15] <jcoxon_> as the balloon is going to try and communicate with it
[23:15] <jcoxon_> during its flight
[23:15] <citrus> ahhhh i see
[23:15] <jcoxon_> (no one has ever done this before)
[23:15] <Upu> ISS has an APRS repeater on it and some other amateur radio bits and bobs
[23:15] <citrus> awesome.
[23:16] <citrus> I need to find some books on how to build all this
[23:16] <citrus> i'll be glazing the wikipedia
[23:16] <Upu> when you get your radio you can tune into 144.800 (145?) and you can hear ISS when it goes past
[23:16] <Upu> no books welcome to making it up as you go along :)
[23:16] <Upu> there is enough information out there and in here to do it
[23:17] <jcoxon_> iss is 145.825mhz
[23:17] <citrus> that is absolutely amazing
[23:17] <citrus> :)
[23:17] <Upu> thats the one
[23:19] <Upu> we don't mind the questions citrus so just ask away
[23:20] <Upu> aka you don't need to ask if you can ask a question :)
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[23:21] <Upu> is that balloon floating ?
[23:21] <jcoxon_> i wouldn't trust the altitude currently
[23:21] <jcoxon_> its being weird
[23:21] <Upu> ok
[23:24] <citrus> + Upu how do you connect a camera to the arduino?
[23:24] <jcoxon_> but if it is then thats amazing
[23:24] <Laurenceb_> wtf with the altitude
[23:24] <Upu> generally you don't
[23:24] <Laurenceb_> maybe a weird weather system
[23:25] <jonsowman> citrus: on some cameras you can run an intervalometer etc on the camera itself
[23:25] <Upu> mainly people use Canon AXXX cameras and use CHDK on them
[23:25] <Upu> http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK
[23:25] <citrus> thx
[23:25] <jonsowman> though actually you can have the camera talk to the arduino via PWM on its USB port
[23:25] <jonsowman> most people don't bother though
[23:27] <Upu> I just took 1 picture every 10 seconds
[23:27] <Upu> for 8 hours...
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[23:29] <Upu> not the best altitude to float at if it is accurate
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[23:29] <jcoxon_> looks like a venus gps
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[23:32] <MLow-werk> is there any way to change your time on irssi
[23:32] <MLow-werk> but not the machine time
[23:33] <Upu> no idea sorry
[23:33] <jcoxon_> http://rackerhacker.com/2009/11/03/changing-the-time-zone-in-irssi/
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[23:36] <Upu> its going up again
[23:37] <Laurenceb_> looks like the spike was weather
[23:37] <citrus> + jcoxon +upu what if you want a video camera on-board..what are the choices there
[23:37] <Upu> whatever you want just 2 things : keep the weight down and remember you may lose it
[23:38] <Upu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcbykWjsQrI
[23:40] <jcoxon_> anyone seen the 10mb forecast currently?
[23:41] <jcoxon_> http://nstar.org/GFS/10mb/10mb.012.png
[23:41] <Upu> still not really coming our way is it /.
[23:41] <jcoxon_> it could get caught in that cicular wind pattern
[23:41] <jcoxon_> and go back on itself :-p
[23:42] <Upu> oh yeah didn't notice that lol
[23:42] <Upu> given the speed its ascending
[23:42] <Upu> it should clear that fingers crossed
[23:42] <Upu> but yeah interesting never a dull moment :)
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[23:47] <Laurenceb_> interesting
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[23:48] <Laurenceb_> theres eddies over the equator where the two stratospheric vortices intersect
[23:48] <fsphil-laptop> this is like the pattern we see pre-burst
[23:48] <fsphil-laptop> (the altitude graph)
[23:48] <Laurenceb_> i suspect its weather systems
[23:48] <fsphil-laptop> yea
[23:48] <citrus> +upu what measures should one take? return addresses etc... / caution signs / property of..etc.. to get the general population not to discard the contents of the payload?
[23:49] <Laurenceb_> unless its going to float around 14km
[23:49] <Upu> yup all of the above
[23:50] <daveake> and make them waterproof :)
[23:50] <Upu> lol
[23:50] <Upu> wise advice
[23:50] <citrus> how often do the payloads go wetways?
[23:50] <daveake> Who you asking? :p
[23:50] <Upu> intentionally once
[23:50] <fsphil-laptop> or at least salt proof :)
[23:50] <citrus> (styrofoam advice noted)
[23:50] <citrus> :
[23:50] <citrus> :P
[23:50] <Upu> unintentionally err
[23:50] <daveake> 2 of 5 for me
[23:50] <daveake> 1 recovered
[23:50] <Upu> Tim did a deliberate splash down once
[23:50] <fsphil-laptop> only one wet landing for me
[23:50] <daveake> Well it recovered itself actually
[23:50] <Upu> 100% for me*
[23:50] <Upu> *based on 1 launch
[23:51] <citrus> what measures can be taken to pop the balloon if it's at risk?
[23:51] <Upu> cut down triggered by the flight computer
[23:51] <fsphil-laptop> my landings so far: 1 field, 1 unknown, 1 tree and 1 sea :)
[23:52] <daveake> 2 fields 2 seas 1 back garden. No trees
[23:52] <Upu> sea, The North
[23:52] <jcoxon_> no idea for me
[23:52] <citrus> cut down signal does the rtty get sent over 434mhz? are there other methods? depending on altitude? what is the maximum altitude for gprs?
[23:52] <jcoxon_> wouldn't want to work it out
[23:52] <daveake> :)
[23:52] <daveake> "Tree over river" you must remember tho
[23:52] <Upu> citrus the onboard payload computer generally needs to make that decision
[23:53] <Upu> no ones tried a transmitted cut down
[23:53] <Upu> technically its not sunset for another 30 mins on that balloon
[23:54] <citrus> canadian lego man, how did they build it? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQwLmGR6bPA
[23:54] <Laurenceb_> i wonder if its going to float
[23:55] <Upu> jcoxon_ whats the forecast at the altitude they are at ?
[23:56] <Upu> ~155mbar
[23:56] <Upu> err 166mbar
[23:56] <Upu> http://nstar.org/GFS/100mb/100mb.012.png
[23:57] <jcoxon_> 200mb is the edge of the JS in that area
[00:00] --- Sun Feb 12 2012