highaltitude.log.20120207

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[00:10] <MLow> same result with 3v3
[00:10] <MLow> so yeah
[00:11] <MLow> this is no fun
[00:14] <fsphil-laptop> isn't
[00:18] <NigeyS> lalala
[00:19] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[00:21] <fsphil> right, transmitting again
[00:22] <fsphil> took out the jumper wires and put them back in
[00:23] <MLow> so yours is kinda sorta working?
[00:23] <fsphil-laptop> just seeing if it decodes
[00:24] <fsphil-laptop> yep
[00:24] <fsphil-laptop> AFSK1200: fm 2I0VIM-2 to APRS-0 via WIDE2-1 UI pid=F0
[00:24] <fsphil-laptop> !/2nVjLhe7O /A=005971swift:1 simulation|"0$Z!K!"|
[00:24] <fsphil-laptop> so this is the avr running at 3.3v
[00:25] <fsphil-laptop> the hx1 with 5v
[00:25] <fsphil-laptop> the EN and TX pins are both connected directly to the avr
[00:26] <MLow> so en being pulled to 3v3
[00:26] <fsphil-laptop> yes
[00:26] <MLow> >:(
[00:26] <MLow> i did that
[00:26] <fsphil-laptop> that's enough to get it to transmit
[00:27] <MLow> im doing a transistor
[00:27] <MLow> but almost exactly the same
[00:28] <fsphil-laptop> the crystal I'm using is the 7.3728 mhz one
[00:28] <fsphil-laptop> sorry, MHz
[00:29] <fsphil-laptop> although I doubt the speed would make any difference
[00:29] <fsphil-laptop> worth trying though - do you have an 8mhz crystal handy?
[00:30] <MLow> not sure i have a box of em lemme check
[00:30] <fsphil-laptop> nice to hear some packets on 144.800 here :) it's normally void .. I must do some range tests
[00:39] <MLow> 3v3 and nothing
[00:39] <MLow> sucks
[00:39] <fsphil-laptop> at all?
[00:39] <MLow> well no decode
[00:39] <fsphil-laptop> nobody's hearing my packets :)
[00:39] <MLow> same output as 5v
[00:39] <fsphil-laptop> can you take a picture of the board?
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[00:43] <MLow> dont see what that will do but ok
[00:43] <fsphil-laptop> I'm running out of ideas :)
[00:44] <MLow> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12996303/hab%20pics/IMG_20120206_184245.jpg
[00:45] <MLow> the gunk in the middle is from a sticker i think
[00:48] <MLow> ld33v wired from supply
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[00:50] <fsphil-laptop> red wire the EN one?
[00:52] <MLow> yes
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[00:53] <MLow> they kinda zigzag
[00:54] <fsphil-laptop> dont' see anything out of the ordinary
[00:55] <fsphil-laptop> minus the rest of the circuit, that's basically what I've got wired up here
[00:57] <MLow> fff
[00:59] <SpeedEvil> https://twitter.com/#!/elonmusk/status/165622701631868928/photo/1
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[01:01] <MLow> could it be the center freq is off, would that make one tone deviate more than another?
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[01:04] <fsphil-laptop> it could be off a bit, but that won't cause that
[01:04] <fsphil-laptop> try retuning slightly
[01:05] <fsphil-laptop> I see something similar with this one - I think the higher frequency tone just gets filtered a bit more by the hx1
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[01:07] <MLow> which pot is it
[01:08] <fsphil-laptop> that I don't know
[01:10] <Lunar_Lander> good night
[01:10] <fsphil-laptop> eek, after 1am. my alarm goes off soon :)
[01:10] <fsphil-laptop> night Lunar_Lander
[01:10] <fsphil-laptop> night all
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[03:21] <MLow> i hate the hx1
[03:22] <Lando-SpacePimp> MLow: http://tinyurl.com/4n9jys8
[03:23] <MLow> i forgot bf3 server browser is in a web browser :(
[03:25] <MLow> to play bf3
[03:27] <MLow> launch origin(windows program)->login->launch game(opens webpage)->use webpage to find server->click join(needs plugin)->download plugin->restart browser->re-launch bf3->find server and join->plugin launches game exe
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[08:01] <earthshine> o/
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[08:03] Nick change: daveake_ -> daveake
[08:08] <number10See> damn rechaptcha
[08:08] Nick change: number10See -> number10
[08:08] <daveake> :)
[08:09] <daveake> All at see?
[08:09] <daveake> I know the feeling ...
[08:10] <number10> Iol, daveake I know my spellings bad but see/sea? maybe ... possible with me.
[08:10] <number10> cant even spell lol
[08:10] <daveake> :)
[08:10] <daveake> "spelling's" and "can't", of course ;)
[08:11] <daveake> But I'm a pedant
[08:11] <number10> its like being back at skewel
[08:11] <costyn> morning
[08:11] <number10> morning
[08:11] <daveake> http://thumbsnap.com/eBdrMojP
[08:13] <number10> ' doesnt always work on my keyboard (as tou can see)... and I am trying to avoid RSI
[08:15] <cuddykid> morning morning
[08:17] <number10> morning
[08:17] <Darkside> evening
[08:18] <daveake> good day
[08:19] <UpuWork> morning
[08:20] <UpuWork> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-16922438
[08:20] <UpuWork> you've probably all seen it
[08:23] <daveake> Nope. 23 miles? Pah, that's nothing :p
[08:23] <number10> no - first time - I wonder who sponsors him
[08:24] <UpuWork> go on have a guess
[08:24] <UpuWork> 50p says its Redbull or Brietling
[08:25] <cuddykid> lol
[08:25] <daveake> "In January 2010, it was reported that Baumgartner was working with a team of scientists and sponsor Red Bull to attempt the highest sky-dive on record"
[08:26] <UpuWork> yup :)
[08:26] <UpuWork> right afk
[08:26] <daveake> Spending the 50p?
[08:26] <daveake> face
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[08:34] <costyn> heh... Felix Baumgartner is heavily sponsored by Red Bull
[08:35] <costyn> But I'm wondering if even they have the cash for this, it takes serious money (millions) to get a person that high in a balloon
[08:35] <SpeedEvil> Screw balloons, go with MOOSE.
[08:36] <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOOSE
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[08:37] <SpeedEvil> This is the sort of research NASA should be doing.
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[08:37] <SpeedEvil> The ability to add half a '9' to the reliability of a space vehicle.
[08:39] <costyn> he's the same guy that flew across the channel using a rigid wing about 2 years ago
[08:39] <SpeedEvil> Well, to be fair.
[08:40] <SpeedEvil> If you have a name like Bumgardner, you're gonna have to work some to get people not to snigger a bit.
[08:40] <costyn> SpeedEvil: heheh
[08:41] <number10> He's certainly not you average horticulturalist
[08:41] <number10> your
[08:42] <daveake> Boldly going where few men go
[08:42] <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_crew_capsule - During testing of the "Stanley Capsule" in 1962, a bear became the first living creature to survive a supersonic ejection.[7]
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[08:49] <costyn> but he's also quite an arrogant prick. not very well liked in the skydiving world
[08:49] <costyn> probably cause we're all jealous
[08:50] <costyn> SpeedEvil: the MOOSE system looks pretty cool, terrifying, but a cool idea
[09:01] <Laurenceb_> i though all skydivers were arrogant pricks
[09:03] <costyn> Laurenceb_: pretty much ;)
[09:03] <daveake> :D
[09:04] <daveake> (present company excepted of course!)
[09:11] <SpeedEvil> costyn: Indeed. The problem is that there is the seeming problem statement that only 99.99% safety is useful.
[09:17] <costyn> daveake: well in fairness, maybe a third is arrogant pricks, the rest are ok. surprisingly many it nerds in skydiving actually
[09:18] <daveake> I was just saying you're in the latter category :)
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[09:23] <costyn> hehe got that, but just clearing up that not all skydivers are arrogant pricks, just a lot of them
[09:23] <daveake> :)
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[09:42] <daveake> So, the photo printer I got for free with a Canon A490 on ebay has now sold, for the same price I paid for the camera :D
[09:45] <SpeedEvil> :)
[09:45] <daveake> Just as well as the A495 in cloud3 died due to salt water damage
[09:46] <SpeedEvil> Warranty return!
[09:46] <daveake> lol
[09:46] <daveake> "Well, I sent it to 28km then dropped it in the sea, and now it don't work"
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[09:50] <costyn> daveake: heh interesting... they never said anything about the printer?
[09:51] <costyn> daveake: haha... bet you'd still get the bland response "sorry sir the warranty doesn't cover that" instead of "wait, wtf?!"
[09:52] <daveake> Yesy they did ... I sent an email saying "Why is there a printer in the box and do you want it back?". They replied "We messed up the listing. The printer was included. Keep it"
[09:52] <daveake> I went straight back on ebay to see if they had any more messed up listings :D
[09:53] <costyn> haha that is funny
[09:53] <costyn> guess it shows that the printer is not worth the money/hassle (to them) to return it and put it back into inventory
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[09:55] <daveake> Yeah. I got £21 for it (plus postage). They'd have had to pay be £8 postage to return it, so yeah it wasn't really worth it for them. Plus they got a very happy customer!
[09:55] <costyn> hehe
[09:56] <daveake> I'd have kept it but we already have one very similar
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[09:59] <daveake> Still having fun with the ebay supplier of these DS18B20 temp sensors ... 3 weeks since order and no show. Listing said <= 8 days delivery. The listing says "shipped from UK" and "London Werehouse" but I know from their feedback that's a lie. They insisted to me they ship from UK and that there's an "urgent royal mail notice" about loooong delays. They;ve failed to send me a copy or link to any such notice.
[09:59] <daveake> First they said "£2 off", then "£1.50 off", then "full refund tomorrow", and now "refund when it arrives"
[10:00] <gonzo_> dave, did you use an internal timer for taking pics, or pulse the shutter externally?
[10:00] <daveake> internal
[10:00] <costyn> hah... refund when it arrives? so they're giving them to you free?
[10:00] <daveake> CHDSK script
[10:00] <daveake> yes
[10:00] <daveake> I'm still going to rip them a new one with ebay
[10:00] <daveake> Basically, they ship from china (fine) and lie about it (not fine)
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[10:17] <cuddykid> coldest outside temps can clearly be seen at around 11km in altitude
[10:19] <cuddykid> http://i.imgur.com/DkoNx.png
[10:20] <cuddykid> the odd thing is how different the readings are at >15km altitude
[10:23] <MLow> i have done some soul searching
[10:23] <MLow> and i think
[10:23] <MLow> i think this hx1 is possessed
[10:23] <cuddykid> lol
[10:24] <MLow> :|
[10:24] <MLow> dont laugh at me
[10:24] <daveake> MLow meet cuddykid. cuddkid this is MLow. You have a lot in common :)
[10:24] <cuddykid> haha :D
[10:24] <MLow> i have lost it come back, and lost it AGAIN over this hx1
[10:24] <cuddykid> MLow - I am usually plagued with many many many&& bugs :P
[10:24] <cuddykid> sounds familiar
[10:25] <cuddykid> don't worry - it'll all come good in the end :D
[10:25] <daveake> join #weirdshit :)
[10:25] <MLow> i wake up at night(4am here), with some idea to fix it, then it doesnt work and i lose 10% more hair
[10:26] <MLow> i get my own hopes up and dash them
[10:29] <cuddykid> lol - I have that often, random solutions come to mind in the middle of the night
[10:29] <gonzo_> take little steps, get one thing working at a time
[10:30] <cuddykid> in fact, the night before my launch, whilst running through everything, I thought oh no - I haven't covered the nichrome so when it fires it will just burn through everything (chute) :P
[10:30] <cuddykid> last minute fix in the morning with a loo roll tube
[10:30] <cuddykid> :D
[10:30] <MLow> did your launch go well i hope
[10:30] <cuddykid> MLow: yup :D all the bugs ran away for launch day fortunately!
[10:31] <cuddykid> With about 15hrs to go until launch I had a major bug - no rtty etc, that was fortunately tracked down in about 30mins
[10:31] <cuddykid> http://i.imgur.com/qsedA.png
[10:32] <MLow> why does external temp vary so much
[10:32] <MLow> the data points are like 10c apart
[10:32] <daveake> sun on sensor
[10:32] <MLow> hm
[10:33] <MLow> good point, i assumed it was covered
[10:33] <daveake> dunno. I'm guessing :)
[10:33] <MLow> nice data, kinda wish there were more points
[10:34] <MLow> MY LAMP BROKE
[10:34] <MLow> wtfzoromgbbq
[10:35] <cuddykid> daveake: no sun, on underside and covered :)
[10:36] <daveake> ok
[10:38] <MLow> odd
[10:38] <MLow> i plan on just a camera + aprs tracker
[10:38] <MLow> maybe some cheap sensors
[10:39] <MLow> aprs tracker based on trackuino schematic, but not working, hx1 is deviating weird and no one knows why
[10:39] Action: MLow pulls 1% more hair out
[10:40] <cuddykid> the left side of both lines is during descent - hence why at the there aren't that many points at higher altitudes due to fast descent
[10:40] <MLow> ah, maybe a different color or shape for descent would make the graph easier to read
[10:41] <cuddykid> yeah, probably
[10:43] <cuddykid> oh wow - no trend really with my solar panel data :P one sec and I'll post a graph
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[10:44] <MLow-lappy> redoing the whole thing on a different breadboard
[10:45] <cuddykid> I'm guessing it's to do with swinging payload - no stable position hence the light falling on the solar panel was constantly varying
[10:45] <MLow-lappy> i plan to put a 3-way gyro and 3-way accelerometer in my payload
[10:45] <MLow-lappy> and log the data, to be reconstructed later with a 3ds max script, and animated
[10:46] <cuddykid> there will be a LOT! of movement - I can see that just from the camera
[10:46] <MLow-lappy> it will be funny tho
[10:46] <cuddykid> some photos are even > 90degrees
[10:46] <MLow-lappy> just to see it in 3d
[10:46] <cuddykid> yeah, it will be good
[10:46] <cuddykid> most of my photos are taken at about a 45 degree angle - very few are actually horizontal!
[10:51] <cuddykid> http://i.imgur.com/EYJi2.png
[10:51] <daveake> angle = good
[10:51] <Laurenceb> heh
[10:52] <Laurenceb> you can see the cloud layers
[10:52] <cuddykid> now.. there's a few different bits of info on that graph - I'm guessing why voltage drops down to ~0v occasionally when >10km - is due to increased winds (jet stream)?
[10:52] <cuddykid> Laurenceb: yep :D
[10:52] <Laurenceb> layer at tropopause at 10.5km, interesting
[10:52] <Laurenceb> cuddykid: it goes to 0 as panel is in the shade?
[10:53] <cuddykid> Laurenceb: yep
[10:53] <cuddykid> hence why I think with the sun low in the sky and all the swinging there would've been times when it was very close to 0
[10:53] <Laurenceb> well when its in cloud the light is much more diffuse
[10:53] <Laurenceb> so it never gets as low
[10:53] <cuddykid> yep, hence no zeros
[10:53] <cuddykid> :D
[10:58] <cuddykid> wonder if my 2nd solar panel data correlates
[10:59] <cuddykid> looks like it :D
[11:00] <cuddykid> and there is a clear increase in voltages across the board due to increase load
[11:00] <daveake> eh?
[11:00] <cuddykid> one sex
[11:00] <cuddykid> *sec
[11:00] <cuddykid> lol
[11:01] <daveake> er wrong channel :p
[11:01] <cuddykid> haha
[11:01] <daveake> increased load (lower resistor) --> lower voltage
[11:01] <daveake> What you should do is then calc power and see which R gave more power
[11:03] <cuddykid> increased load = higher resistor?
[11:03] <daveake> opposite
[11:03] <cuddykid> ohhh
[11:03] <cuddykid> then decreased load :)
[11:03] <cuddykid> http://i.imgur.com/2yJuh.png
[11:05] <costyn> cuddykid: that's gonna need a lot of data massaging :P
[11:06] <cuddykid> haha yeah
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[11:06] <cuddykid> though it's what would be expected I think
[11:06] <cuddykid> as there's no way of keeping the payload stable
[11:06] <gonzo_> you mean a lower val resistor!
[11:07] <cuddykid> these are the ones I used - http://www.solarbotics.com/products/scc3766/
[11:17] <MLow-lappy> new breadboard same issue
[11:20] <MLow-lappy> talk, about, frustrating
[11:21] <Laurenceb> http://nasawatch.com/archives/2012/02/nasas-gloomy-bu.html
[11:25] <daveake> Guys, any interest in Lassen IQ receivers at £10 each?
[11:25] <daveake> Looking to do a little bulk buy
[11:26] <SpeedEvil> Perhaps.
[11:26] <SpeedEvil> Maybe one or two
[11:27] <SpeedEvil> Ask me tomorrow, and I'll have a better idea.
[11:27] <SpeedEvil> Perhaps getting a benefits backpayment.
[11:27] <SpeedEvil> Due at tribunal at 2PM. Eeek.
[11:28] <cuddykid> daveake: yeah, one here :)
[11:28] <daveake> :)
[11:28] <cuddykid> does that include antenna daveake ?
[11:28] <daveake> No, just the module
[11:28] <cuddykid> I have to say - I do like the lassen - outdoors :P
[11:28] <cuddykid> ok, cool, in the metal casing?
[11:28] <daveake> yes
[11:28] <cuddykid> brill, count me for one
[11:29] <daveake> ta
[11:29] <MLow> alright so i did the whole trackuino circuit on new breadboard and hx1 still has the problem
[11:29] <MLow> so i guess either i messed up something, or i got a lemon
[11:29] <daveake> Just looking at rough numbers. Doesn't matter if I end up with a few unsold - I can always loose them in the sea :D
[11:29] <daveake> lose
[11:30] <cuddykid> well - actually daveake, before you do go ahead, try diamond point - the CEO there loves what we're doing - he was super helpful to me a few years back and said he was more than willing to support the hobby - he may donate a few, you never know!
[11:30] <cuddykid> John Vaines is his name I believe :)
[11:31] <daveake> That reminds me ... check this listing and scroll down past the 2 photos .. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Trimble-Lassen-SQ-Low-Power-Micro-8-Channel-GPS-module-/290665620568?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43ad056458#ht_5474wt_1163 lol
[11:32] <MLow> i guess your all sick of me whining lol
[11:32] <cuddykid> lol daveake
[11:32] <daveake> We're used to cuddykid's whining, so now :D :p
[11:32] <daveake> "so no"
[11:32] <cuddykid> yeah should be #highaltitudenightmares
[11:33] <MLow> im just kinda at a loss what to do
[11:33] <MLow> can i pursue a refund, do i need to provide proof it is defective...what kind of proof would be needed
[11:33] <cuddykid> interesting, average power generated from solar panel with 150ohm load - 44.6mW
[11:33] <cuddykid> av power from solar panel with 191.something load - 58.9mW
[11:34] <daveake> That should tell you something :)
[11:34] <cuddykid> yup :)
[11:34] <cuddykid> On the data sheet the "peak" power was around just over 150ohm
[11:35] <cuddykid> max power (150ohm) - 406mW; max power(191ohm) - 419mW
[11:37] <MLow> i need a smoke break
[11:37] <MLow> ive got tomorrow off
[11:37] <MLow> my one day off for 2 weeks
[11:37] <MLow> and so help me if i don't figure this out tomorrow im going to lose it
[11:38] <cuddykid> looks like I well and truly beat the performance of the panels on the ground with british winter sun :D
[11:38] <cuddykid> peak power on the ground in california around 150mW
[11:38] <daveake> cuddykid linky to your pic of the jet?
[11:38] <cuddykid> one sec
[11:39] <cuddykid> http://www.flickr.com/photos/acudworth/6818403939/in/set-72157629171216193
[11:41] <MLow> my understanding of this part is just too limited
[11:41] <daveake> Cheers cuddykid. Just trying to find the 2 I got :)
[11:42] <cuddykid> :D
[11:44] <Laurenceb> wow
[11:45] <Laurenceb> thats why space solar power works so well
[11:46] <cuddykid> http://i.imgur.com/RZmBi.png
[11:46] Action: Laurenceb wonders about tethered balloon solar power
[11:46] <SpeedEvil> cuddykid: with low T, voltage rises
[11:46] <cuddykid> looks like it needs to be >10km to generate the big stuff
[11:46] <SpeedEvil> cuddykid: -2mV/C, at -50C = 100mV +
[11:47] <cuddykid> ahh SpeedEvil
[11:47] <Laurenceb> unfortunately panels are quite heavy
[11:47] <SpeedEvil> Cells are not
[11:47] <SpeedEvil> Well - not very
[11:47] <Laurenceb> well 10km was where the haze went away
[11:47] <SpeedEvil> But they are fragile as fuck
[11:47] <Laurenceb> also the tropopause altitude
[11:47] <Laurenceb> amorphous isnt
[11:48] <MLow> alright gents, the battle begins again in the morning
[11:48] <Laurenceb> CO2 causes warming by raising the tropopause
[11:48] <MLow> night
[11:50] <Laurenceb> ive never head it explained properly in the media :(
[11:50] <Laurenceb> but its really simple - CO2 has absorption bands in the longwave ir
[11:51] <Laurenceb> the tropopause is at the effective longwave ir emitting surface of the atmosphere
[11:51] <Laurenceb> so it goes up as CO2 increases
[11:52] Action: SpeedEvil wonders.
[11:52] <Laurenceb> the tropopause temperature is ~fixed due to radiative equilibrium, and tropospheric laps rate is ~fixed due to convective processes
[11:52] <SpeedEvil> I wonder if CO2 filling can be used in any useful way for energy absorbtion, or retention
[11:52] <Laurenceb> so surface heats as tropopause rises
[11:52] <Laurenceb> simple
[11:53] <Laurenceb> nope
[11:53] <SpeedEvil> and yes, not simply
[11:53] <SpeedEvil> as most of the time, the first substance will absorb
[11:53] <Laurenceb> all the atmosphere above 11km is <1optical depth
[11:53] <SpeedEvil> ah
[11:53] <SpeedEvil> I see
[11:53] <SpeedEvil> nvm then
[11:53] <Laurenceb> so a balloon of CO2 is going to do nothing
[11:54] <SpeedEvil> I was annoyed a few days ago to find out that a neat optical idea I had for a cool looking light can only be realised if I use liquid helium as the fill. :)
[11:54] <Laurenceb> you can solve for the effective temperature forcing of a CO2 change with a few lines of equations
[11:55] <SpeedEvil> (only liquid with a RI of close to air)
[11:55] <Laurenceb> lol
[11:55] <Laurenceb> but the feedback processes are _slightly_ more complex :P
[11:56] <daveake> cuddykid http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveake/6835202213/
[11:56] <cuddykid> lovely daveake :D
[11:57] <cuddykid> I'd laugh if it was the same plane and the pilot saw both, he'd be wondering what on earth is going on!
[11:57] <daveake> He was flying in circles if it was the same one!
[11:57] <cuddykid> I like that one http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveake/6835199791/lightbox/
[11:58] <daveake> yeah, different plane to the other one. That was much later
[11:59] <cuddykid> I guess we both got a fair few because we were nearish london
[11:59] <cuddykid> I got quite a few trails
[12:03] <eroomde> UpuWork: do you know when you might have both a ublox 6 breakout and ublox 6 module (ideally neo rather than max) both for sale?
[12:03] <eroomde> just approximately. I'd like to get them from a habber in preference to somewhere else
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[12:12] <daveake> eroomde I have some pics of you (in standard pose) in my flickr set from Saturday :)
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[12:13] <eroomde> ta
[12:13] <daveake> http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveake/sets/72157629187109165/
[12:27] <cuddykid> yes! got a kml file generated for my flight :D
[12:34] <cuddykid> oh wow, the flight just missed the woods and a nearby large village
[12:36] <daveake> Mine missed the entire country :p
[12:36] <cuddykid> lol
[12:36] <cuddykid> http://i.imgur.com/GFArj.jpg
[12:38] <chris_99> how come thats not one squigly line
[12:40] <cuddykid> not sure, I did it using a converter this time - last time I just grabbed it off the tracker
[12:41] <cuddykid> but there wasn't enough data on the tracker to make a good kml
[12:41] <cuddykid> using logged data
[12:41] <chris_99> aha
[12:42] <chris_99> did you have any sesors on the board?
[12:42] <cuddykid> yep - 2x temp and 2x solar panels
[12:42] <chris_99> cool, did where you recording the voltage off the panels
[12:42] <cuddykid> data is really good from them - I've posted a few links to photos if you have a look back in chat - I'll be posting to my blog soonish
[12:43] <cuddykid> chris_99: yeah, recorded voltages, they had different load resistances
[12:44] <chris_99> cool, where is your blog btw?
[12:45] <cuddykid> habexperiments.wordpress.com
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[13:01] <daveake> Combining the data from cloud3 and buzz, tis is my estimate of the landing and return path - http://i.imgur.com/3febS.png
[13:03] <Laurenceb> so about 500m offshore?
[13:03] <daveake> Yep.
[13:04] <cuddykid> nice, very lucky :D
[13:04] <daveake> cloud3 data was down to 671m alt which is that last curve out at sea
[13:04] <daveake> then we got buzz through most of the seaborne bit
[13:05] <daveake> We had that inversion at launch too - went direct north then swung around to go south east, flying near us
[13:07] <daveake> cloud <----> buzz in the sentences above
[13:10] <daveake> Max distance from land was about 1,9km
[13:11] <daveake> With luck like that, I should have bbought a lottery ticket :D
[13:13] <LazyLeopard> Heh!
[13:15] <cuddykid> excel doc now finished including all data and graphs from the launch
[13:15] <cuddykid> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/901991/HABE%202%20Flight%20Data.xlsx
[13:18] <Darkside> xlsx... really
[13:19] <cuddykid> lol
[13:21] <cuddykid> Darkside: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/901991/HABE%202%20Flight%20Data_old.xls
[13:21] <Darkside> still not going to open it :P
[13:22] <cuddykid> lol
[13:22] <cuddykid> are you an open docs or whatever person?
[13:27] <Darkside> no, i just do my graphs and stuff in other programs
[13:27] <Darkside> like matlab, or gnuplot, oor whatever
[13:28] <chris_99> i guess you could use the solar panels to power a microcontroller
[13:35] <Laurenceb> the prediction was very accurate
[13:35] <Laurenceb> it was hovering about 1.5km off the coast for most of the descent
[13:36] <daveake> yes, very
[13:37] <cuddykid> chris_99: possibly, I'm certainly going to look into some sort of solar panel charging system now
[13:37] <chris_99> cool, i think things like PICs tend to use very low power
[13:37] <daveake> Well, it was over the coast from 15:13 @ 2786 metres and landed about 15:20
[13:40] <daveake> At the start you can see where we walked from the prep area to the launch field.
[13:40] <daveake> Thus adding 100 metres to how far out to sea it landed :p
[13:43] <daveake> Appears we walked at 5kph and the last reading as we ran to launch was 13kph :p
[13:44] <number10> no way ;)
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[14:21] <eroomde> i dislike it when you go to a channel to ask a question, and then get 100 people opining on how your question is wrong
[14:21] <eroomde> when infact it was quite carefully and deliberately worded and they just haven't understood it
[14:21] <daveake> Did anyone actually get it?
[14:22] <eroomde> not really
[14:22] <daveake> :(
[14:22] <daveake> <sigh>
[14:22] <eroomde> it was to do with finding a suitable chdk camera
[14:22] <daveake> Ask here :D
[14:22] <eroomde> and then someone said that "wanted" the more expensive 12mp version of something
[14:23] <eroomde> and I said that i thought it was a bit irrelevent as the lens on those cheap compacts certainly don't let 12mp worth of information through them anyway
[14:23] <eroomde> and someone who i conclude has never heard of nyquist started saying that saying the lens reduced resolution was a 'wierd statement'
[14:24] <eroomde> i shall try again when more people are about
[14:24] <eroomde> i.e. us time
[14:24] <daveake> Yeah, the pixel thing is madness. e.g. the fuji made their best compacts for low-light at the 4MP mark, and it's been downhill ever since
[14:24] <eroomde> so i don;t have to speak to the village idiot
[14:24] <daveake> :)
[14:24] <NigelMoby> lol hey ed
[14:25] <eroomde> hey NigelMoby
[14:26] <eroomde> how are tricks?
[14:26] <NigelMoby> all good thanks, yourself?
[14:27] <eroomde> yep very good indeed thanks
[14:27] <eroomde> all is very well here
[14:27] <NigelMoby> :)
[14:29] <eroomde> going to launch a hab soon
[14:29] <eroomde> it's been a wee while
[14:29] <number10> excellent, tell us more
[14:30] <eroomde> oh nothing too special, just doing it with some guys where I work who want to have a go
[14:30] <daveake> Serving bacon butties?
[14:30] <eroomde> and we want to take a specific photo which I'll show you once it's done :)
[14:30] <eroomde> daveake: of course!
[14:30] <number10> ok, understood
[14:30] <daveake> book me in :)
[14:30] <number10> will you launch from oxford?
[14:30] <eroomde> success = bacon butties && remembering balloon
[14:31] <eroomde> number10: not sure
[14:31] <eroomde> if i can get a notam for work then yes
[14:31] <eroomde> but i'm not used to the woes everyone else has to suffer of picking a date in advance before you know the weather forecast
[14:31] <eroomde> and i'm not sure i like it
[14:31] <eroomde> i quite like the blanket notam we have in cambridge
[14:32] <daveake> yeah. Must get round to launching from there
[14:32] Action: daveake makes note to remember balloon next time
[14:32] <eroomde> daveake: how did you get the notam for the 2nd weekend so quickly
[14:32] <eroomde> did you get both weekends from the outset?
[14:32] <daveake> I had that as a backup date
[14:32] <daveake> yes
[14:32] <eroomde> ah ok
[14:32] <eroomde> but you had to be up by 1pm?
[14:32] <daveake> that said, DM has always been good on changing dates for me
[14:32] <daveake> ahem. yes.
[14:32] <eroomde> do you talk to him via email or phone?
[14:33] <daveake> email
[14:33] <number10> whats the situation with that blamket NOTAM, do you just have to give a short warning by phone, or web announcement?
[14:33] <eroomde> maybe he just doesn't like me
[14:33] <daveake> Julie has called a couple of times when he's been slow
[14:33] <eroomde> he's had half a decade (yes, scary) of me badgering him
[14:33] <daveake> He's much quicker in his quiet months
[14:33] <daveake> :D
[14:33] <daveake> If you do launch from Oxford, I wouldn't mind joining in the chase. Want to get my one-mand-chase-car setup done
[14:33] <eroomde> my first launch was 2006
[14:33] <daveake> one-man
[14:33] <eroomde> this is terrifying
[14:34] <daveake> :)
[14:34] <daveake> who/when was the first UK?
[14:34] <eroomde> daveake: yes that would be cool
[14:34] <eroomde> will aim to launch from here
[14:34] <eroomde> daveake: jcoxon
[14:34] <daveake> Ah, I assumed it was Steve or Rob
[14:34] <eroomde> oh no
[14:34] <eroomde> rob is comparatively recent
[14:34] <daveake> latecomers :)
[14:34] <eroomde> i helped him learn how to use microcontrollers :)
[14:35] <daveake> :)
[14:35] <daveake> I remember jcoxon saying he wasn't keen on publicity
[14:35] <eroomde> he's not
[14:35] <eroomde> 2nd was laureanceb
[14:35] <eroomde> 3rd was cambridge
[14:35] <daveake> interesting, ta
[14:36] <eroomde> and 4th was steve on UKHAS 1
[14:36] <daveake> I think the first I heard was probably seeing one of Rob's in the papers ages ago, but it wasn't until Feb last year I seriously thought about doing it myself
[14:36] <eroomde> which was a flight with 4 payloads - cusf, jcoxon, laurenceb, and mike castler
[14:36] <daveake> 4 - wow
[14:36] <eroomde> which was a fun flight
[14:36] <daveake> I bet
[14:37] <eroomde> but we don't talk about it anymore
[14:37] <eroomde> i will tell you offline :)
[14:37] <daveake> Really, us newcomers have it easy with wind predictions, distributed receivers, live prediction ...
[14:37] <daveake> ok
[14:37] <eroomde> yeah yeah
[14:37] <eroomde> back in my day
[14:37] <eroomde> before we had build all the infrastructure
[14:37] <eroomde> we had to do tracking with 2 and 6
[14:37] <eroomde> and half a second hand cable tie
[14:37] <daveake> lol
[14:38] <eroomde> but seriously, back on the early flights we were still doing morse
[14:38] <eroomde> you were the only one listening to your payload
[14:38] <eroomde> you would stand out of the sunroof with a yagi on a moving car
[14:38] <daveake> Nicv :D
[14:38] <daveake> e
[14:38] <eroomde> we still didn't really know which gps units worked at alt and which didn't
[14:39] <eroomde> etc etc
[14:39] <eroomde> i think writing the predictor is the biggest change
[14:39] <daveake> First one I flew I didn't know either, but I was lucky
[14:39] <eroomde> it really used to be a case of let go and hope for the best
[14:40] <eroomde> we knew that the jetstream made a large contribution to displacement but we didn't really know how much
[14:40] <daveake> Agreed. I could have got cloud3 back myself as we had a signal all the way, but without the predictor I wouldn't have known where it was(n't) going to land
[14:40] <eroomde> so basically if wunderground's jetstream (300mbar) map was 'pink' over cambridge that was borderline
[14:40] <daveake> :)
[14:40] <eroomde> yellow no way
[14:40] <eroomde> blue ok
[14:41] <eroomde> and that was only figured out by trial and error
[14:41] <daveake> Cambridge isn't ideally placed really with the jetstream moving stuff east
[14:41] <eroomde> so yep, between the predictor and the distributed listenor, which were both made in the summer of 2008, it's come a long way i think
[14:42] <eroomde> and yes, cambridge isn't ideal
[14:42] <eroomde> but equally it's away from any flight paths
[14:43] <eroomde> which helped get our constant notam
[14:43] <daveake> yep
[14:43] <daveake> And now with cheap/popular Arduino boards and the like, especially with libraries available for gps or whatever, even the electronics/firmware side isn't that difficult for anyone with the aptitude.
[14:43] <eroomde> that's a big change too
[14:43] <daveake> And CHDK saves having to pull cameras apart
[14:43] <eroomde> it used to be that people would come on the this channel
[14:43] <eroomde> having seen something on slashdot
[14:43] <eroomde> and say
[14:44] <eroomde> 'ok, i've bought an atmega8. it's in a little plastic bag. how do i put the linux on it'
[14:44] <daveake> LOL
[14:45] <eroomde> so yes, the arduino and hacker thing has started since then and it's made a huge difference
[14:45] <daveake> For oldies like me and a few others here, PICs/ATMegas are much easier than the stuff we used to have to put together in the late 70's.
[14:45] <eroomde> yeah i bet
[14:45] <daveake> Now if the chip nas power and a program it'll run.
[14:45] <daveake> assuming an internal clock that is
[14:46] <eroomde> and infact with things like the cortex m4 microcontrollers, you really can put 'the linux' on it
[14:46] <eroomde> just in the last 5 years that's been a big change
[14:46] <daveake> Then it was a bboard of processor, RAM (and a tone of crap if that was dynamic), PIO, UART, buffers ...
[14:46] <eroomde> i used to long for the day i could have an fpu in a microcontroller
[14:46] <daveake> Now an iddy biddy little chip has everything that I used to solder to a 6x4 piece of vero :)
[14:47] <eroomde> but it was a very silly and imporabable thought
[14:47] <eroomde> and now we have them
[14:47] <daveake> :)
[14:47] <eroomde> i quite want to make a little 8 bit computer out of discretes though
[14:47] <daveake> 6x4 being inches, not mm :)
[14:47] <eroomde> just for the learnign exercise
[14:47] <eroomde> or maybe an fpga
[14:47] <eroomde> that'd do
[14:47] <daveake> "wanting to build a processor from TTL" was indeed on my first CVs
[14:48] <eroomde> would be fun
[14:48] <eroomde> a lisp machine perhaps...
[14:49] <eroomde> well anyway
[14:51] <Gear_> you should use an n900
[14:51] <eroomde> ouch
[14:52] <eroomde> oh, atmega1284 are 44 pin tqfp
[14:52] <eroomde> that's pleasing
[14:52] <eroomde> i like more flash and ram in smaller packages
[14:53] <eroomde> usually we pay a huge board area price just becausr you want to use a filesystem on your sd card and so need a bit more ram
[14:56] <Gear_> have you seen the nokia n900?
[14:57] <eroomde> yes
[14:57] <Gear_> I got a secondary one just for projects
[14:57] <eroomde> it's a big smartphone right?
[14:57] <eroomde> cool
[14:57] <Gear_> it's linux native
[14:58] <Gear_> has everything
[14:58] <eroomde> there are a couple of guys on ehre that have played with smartphones for ham
[14:58] <eroomde> hab*
[14:58] <natrium42> mmh, ham
[14:58] <Gear_> what's hab?
[14:58] <daveake> high altitude butties
[14:58] <natrium42> damn your delicious typos, eroomde
[14:59] <Gear_> the n900 is more like a tiny laptop with a phone function
[14:59] <costyn> so do you guys have any ideas for uses for a old car battery that still has some life in it but no longer will start my diesel when it's -10
[14:59] <eroomde> ed cunningham of cusf used an android phone - 'project squirrel' - and have a talk about it at the ukhas conf http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3Mh4j2Cw9M
[15:00] <Gear_> wiki the n900
[15:00] <eroomde> costyn: ballast mass
[15:00] <eroomde> to tie down your balloon
[15:00] <Gear_> you'll probably want one
[15:00] <eroomde> where the ballast is a deadly acid
[15:00] <daveake> Ed, the look on your face when I lost grip on the balloon and it flew upwards was priceless :)
[15:01] <costyn> eroomde: heheh well i don't need that much mass considering it's like 13 or 14 kg
[15:01] <Gear_> what sort of balloons do you guys use?
[15:01] <eroomde> costyn: so this one time
[15:01] <eroomde> at band camp
[15:02] <eroomde> we filled a 3kg balloon up
[15:02] <eroomde> in 8mph winds
[15:02] <costyn> eroomde: hehehehe :)
[15:02] <eroomde> and it pulled 2 x 25kg masses, that we were using for mooring, right across the field
[15:02] <costyn> eroomde: omg
[15:02] <Gear_> you should have tied a lawn chair to it and used it for manned flight
[15:03] <costyn> eroomde: that's ... unexpected
[15:03] <costyn> eroomde: how about mooring it to a car or such?
[15:04] <gonzo_> a balloon bump start
[15:04] <gonzo_> could have helped dave!
[15:05] <eroomde> we tied it to the gas bottle in the end
[15:05] <eroomde> bottles*
[15:05] <Gear_> isn't helium expensive?
[15:05] <daveake> Gear_ "Lawnchair Larry" - that's been done!
[15:05] <Gear_> but has it been done by you...
[15:06] <Gear_> it could be awesome.
[15:06] <daveake> Er, no, I'm not nuts
[15:07] <daveake> Lawchair Larry was an American, with a chair a lot of balloons, a gun and a 6-pack of beer. What could possibly go wrong ....
[15:07] <Gear_> what was the gun for?
[15:07] <daveake> Controlled descent
[15:07] <SamSilver> layy was also on the flight path
[15:07] <SamSilver> Larry
[15:07] <Gear_> you mean an actual firearm?
[15:07] <SamSilver> approach
[15:07] <Gear_> that used live rounds?
[15:08] <daveake> Yes. He shot balloons.
[15:08] <costyn> i thought it was a bb gun
[15:08] <daveake> pass
[15:08] <eroomde> Gear_: yes it's quite expensive
[15:08] <SamSilver> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawnchair_Larry
[15:08] <eroomde> we had an arrangement with a gas supplier who becaome our sponsor
[15:08] <eroomde> free gas
[15:08] <daveake> nice
[15:08] <eroomde> in exchange for carrying on with our education outreach work
[15:10] <Gear_> he used a bb gun to shoot the balloons
[15:10] <Gear_> he is about 70% less awesome now :/
[15:10] <Gear_> if you're gonna go crazy, do it properly
[15:10] <SamSilver> a stick with a pin would hardly change much
[15:11] <eroomde> yeah
[15:11] <eroomde> they don't really burst
[15:11] <number10> well he used a different gun in 1993 and he is now less awesome
[15:11] <eroomde> when they aren't that stretched anyway
[15:11] <eroomde> they just slowly leak
[15:11] <eroomde> if you shot it with a bb gun you'd probably get an altitude record
[15:11] <Gear_> it just said "pellet gun"
[15:12] <Gear_> it would have been .177 lead pellets, not ball bearings
[15:12] <Gear_> pellets have better muzzle velocity and you can buy pointy ones
[15:14] <Gear_> I maintain that if you're gonna start being crazy and do manned flight with lawnchair and balloons, you go ALL OUT with the crazy, and use a revolver at least
[15:15] <gonzo_> the muzzle blast could be enough to take out a few more than you expected
[15:15] <Gear_> that just makes it look even better
[15:15] <costyn> Gear_: I woudln't call him crazy, just adventurous with little regard for his own life
[15:16] <chris_99> i assume a record for the first balloon assisted HALO jump has yet to be claimed
[15:16] <gonzo_> people do cowboy quick draw shoots with blanks
[15:16] <Gear_> baloon assisted, or balloon only?
[15:16] <costyn> chris_99: nope
[15:16] <gonzo_> there was a balloon released hand glider attempt a few years agho?
[15:17] <Gear_> is it legal to send a monkey up with the balloon?
[15:17] <costyn> chris_99: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Kittinger#Project_Excelsior
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[15:18] <chris_99> oh wow
[15:18] <costyn> Gear_: probably not
[15:19] <Gear_> getting a monkey would be pretty difficult anyway
[15:19] <Gear_> what about a dog
[15:19] <Gear_> a stray dog
[15:19] <costyn> chris_99: and check this what Upu posted http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-16922438
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[15:20] <chris_99> thanks
[15:20] <chris_99> that must be the most amazing feeling to freefall from that height
[15:21] <Gear_> if you coudl get a monkey that had a terminal illness people probably wouldn't care as much
[15:22] <costyn> chris_99: yea the view would be awesome, and you'd have a lot of time to enjoy it, but i'm guessing the stress of how weird it all is would make it less enjoyable; seeing as there is very little air to work with and stabilize yourself
[15:22] <chris_99> yeah, you'd have to have oxygen tanks i guess
[15:22] <chris_99> to avoid blacking out
[15:23] <Gear_> someone should look into one of those monkeys that they test cancer cures on, sending a cancer monkey up with teh balloon would sort of be like the make a wish foundation
[15:24] <Gear_> except that's probably not what the monkey would wish for, but it's your word against his, and monkeys can't talk
[15:25] <Gear_> so I'm pretty sure I just ironed out all the red tape, all you guys need to do is find a cancer monkey
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[15:31] <costyn> Gear_: what would be the point?
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[15:38] <SamSilver> think I will just stick too using kittens
[15:39] <fsphil> yea, monkeys are dangerous. didn't you watch that documentary, planet of the apes?
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[15:41] <daveake> I'm gonna stop using cats now, after one escaped whilst flying over Anfield
[15:42] <gonzo_> out of kittens. I had a sack of brick that needed drowning. Kittens are so good at weighting them down.
[15:42] <costyn> gonzo_: haha
[15:42] <gonzo_> s
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[15:49] <fsphil> you're all evil :p
[15:49] <fsphil> bricks have rights too you know
[15:51] <SamSilver> I hope they were not the cute cly ones!
[15:51] <SamSilver> clay
[16:35] <fsphil> people who design mutli-user software that uses .mdb files as the database should be punished
[16:37] <UpuWork> +1
[16:37] <UpuWork> punished by death
[16:38] <daveake> Or sent to Siberia to program in Visual Basic for the rest of their lives
[16:39] <gonzo_> I'll take death, in siberia
[16:42] <daveake> :)
[16:44] <daveake> Well, my little rfm22b payload seems remarkably resilient considering it spent 2 hours in the drink, and the resulting mess in the battery compartment - http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveake/6825358167/in/set-72157629187109165
[16:44] <SpeedEvil> :)
[16:46] <daveake> Arduino is running; FSA03 is talking though has no lock at all yet; temperature and pressure sensors working
[16:47] <daveake> RFM22B is transmitting though weekly and it keeps dropping out. Mostly decodable though
[16:47] <daveake> weakly
[16:48] <daveake> http://i.imgur.com/a63uK.jpg
[16:48] <daveake> rfm22b on the right; fsq03 on the left
[16:48] <daveake> fsa03 now has the time :)
[16:49] <daveake> Might get away with just changing the rfm22b
[16:52] <SpeedEvil> you've rinsed it complretley several times, then dried?
[16:53] <daveake> For small values of "several times" :)
[16:53] <daveake> Yes, I'll do that.
[16:53] <daveake> And the "dropping out" was my receiver :D
[16:54] <SpeedEvil> :)
[16:55] <daveake> Well, I'll get this working then fly it under a foil balloon for fun.
[16:56] <daveake> My Buzz Lightyear shaped balloon arrived today :)
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[16:57] <Laurenceb> yeah id suggest cleaning very well
[16:57] <Laurenceb> then drying very well
[16:57] <daveake> Just water? Do-ionized water? Something else?
[16:57] <Laurenceb> tap water :P
[16:58] <daveake> Softened or not? :)
[16:58] <daveake> Well the temperature sensor *did* work, but 1 pin fell off just now :p
[16:58] <daveake> I have spares
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[17:00] <fsphil> I've been meaning to rinse out the fsa03 from the payload stuck in the tree
[17:01] <fsphil> it's been a bit iffy since I got it back
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[17:02] <daveake> Well, the pin that fell off the DS18B20 sensor was the power one, so now it's still running using parasitic mode :D
[17:12] <cuddykid> daveake: I've always ran mine in parasitic mode - simply means it takes a few milli secs longer for each temp retreival
[17:13] <daveake> I've never trusted that it would work over the full temp range
[17:13] <daveake> And for the sake of 1 wire I didn't want to find out the hard way
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[17:30] <daveake> fsa03 has lock, so that's another bit working :)
[17:32] <fsphil> you beat the sea?
[17:33] <daveake> Er, no, the camera and phone are dead
[17:33] <daveake> But doing better than I thought
[17:33] <fsphil> well a few wounds
[17:34] <daveake> It's just a flesh wound.
[17:36] <cuddykid> :)
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[17:39] <Gear_> is anyone into kites here?
[17:42] <Gear_> I realise they're not as high altitude as weather balloons but some go pretty high
[17:43] <Gear_> and I wanna talk about my project
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[17:44] <CovBalloon> Does UK HAS have an account to get cheap Helium, if not why not? Is this something we want to do?
[17:44] <CovBalloon> Choose one supplier and agree to buy all our helium from them.
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[17:45] <fsphil> ukhas isn't really a proper organisation
[17:45] <fsphil> not yet anyway
[17:46] <fsphil> there'd probably be other issues too (people not returning cylinders, etc)
[17:48] <CovBalloon> well lets deal with those issues as they arise
[17:49] <CovBalloon> if we registered as a charity we would get our vat back too.
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[17:56] <russss> you don't want to register as a charity, that's a lot of work. Also UKHAS has no public benefit so I don't think they'd approve it.
[17:56] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[17:57] <fsphil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CB8Mehymr0
[17:57] <fsphil> video was being discussed on the gpsl list
[17:58] <Gear_> saving orphans is charitable, and you could say for each day they don't approve your registration, an orphan will be tied to a giant balloon and let go
[17:58] <Upu> lol
[17:58] <Gear_> so by approving it, they'd be saving the lives of orphans
[17:58] <daveake> think of the kittens
[17:58] <Upu> Helium isn't cheap full stop.
[17:58] <number10> nice ring as it bursts
[17:59] <fsphil> it's a good capture, one of the better ones I've seen
[17:59] <Upu> Hydrogen is cheap but ...
[17:59] <fsphil> looks like it was recorded on vhs
[17:59] <Gear_> hydrogen isn't cheap, how the hell do you store liquid hydrogen
[18:00] <Upu> in a cylinder :)
[18:00] <fsphil> I'm still hoping to use H2 next time
[18:00] <daveake> And compared to helium it's cheap
[18:00] <Upu> and its way cheaper than Helium
[18:00] <daveake> like 1/3rd
[18:00] <Gear_> how would you EVER get approval to release balloons filled with explosives
[18:00] <fsphil> plus if all else fails, you can make it yourself
[18:00] <Lunar_Lander> it was done since the first ever gas balloon Ge
[18:00] <Upu> Gear_ no problems
[18:01] <Lunar_Lander> Gear_
[18:01] <Gear_> no problems with a violently explosive balloon?
[18:01] <Upu> watch that James May balloon launch ? One of those was H2
[18:01] <Gear_> even when it lands?
[18:01] <daveake> it's not that violent
[18:01] <Upu> no that violent and it should never land full
[18:01] <Lunar_Lander> Gear_: usually it'll burst and vent all H2 to the stratosphere
[18:02] <Gear_> you should probably cover the landing thing in napalm just to make some something catches on fire when it lands
[18:02] <daveake> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQvpK9cl0No
[18:02] <Upu> don't need it Gear_ flaming latex is just fine
[18:02] <daveake> :D
[18:03] <fsphil> the met also use H2 balloons occasionally
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[18:03] <Upu> In all seriousness as long as you take sensible precautions there are alot of reason to use H2
[18:04] <Upu> environmentally more friendly
[18:04] <Upu> cheaper
[18:04] <Upu> more lift
[18:04] <fsphil> I'm going to have face protection, and a fire extinguisher handy
[18:04] <fsphil> we'll be filling it very slowly so very low risk
[18:05] <Gear_> safety glasses
[18:05] <daveake> They have a flow limiter. Fill takes about an hour
[18:05] <Upu> ensure static is accounted for
[18:05] <Upu> etc
[18:05] <daveake> Upu re static - conductive fill hose?
[18:05] <Gear_> full asbestos bodysuit
[18:05] <Upu> earth it
[18:06] <fsphil> Gear_, just one of those plastic face covers
[18:06] <fsphil> the kind riot police wear :)
[18:06] <Gear_> just use a stocking
[18:07] <Gear_> make some eye holes in your tinfoil helmet
[18:07] <cuddykid> does anyone know of a super cheap (but fairly decent) server renting company?
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[18:08] <Upu> Gear_ Hindenburg only went up like it did because it was coated in effectively thermite
[18:08] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[18:08] <Upu> cuddykid just a domain www etc or are you wanting a dedicated server ?
[18:08] <fsphil> cuddykid, I'm quite fond of goscomb - they've some nice cheap vps services
[18:09] <cuddykid> Upu: I was looking into dedicated server - got www etc atm - but only looking, as prices seem high :P
[18:09] <Upu> what do you want to do with it ?
[18:09] <cuddykid> will have a look fsphil :)
[18:09] <Gear_> in a chemistry lecture we filled PARTY balloons with hydrogen, let them go with a fuse, and they exploded like bombs
[18:09] <cuddykid> Upu: play about lol - hence why it's not that serious - would back everything up there and use it to host my website (possibly 2 if possible)
[18:09] <daveake> and you lived to tell the tail
[18:09] <fsphil> only if you also fill them with oxygen Gear_
[18:10] <Upu> pretty crap bombs
[18:10] <fsphil> a balloon filled with H2 will burn, it won't explode. more of a woosh than a bang
[18:10] <Upu> cuddykid you don't need a dedicated server to host a www site
[18:10] <fsphil> but if you add oxygen inside the balloon it will go pop
[18:10] <daveake> cuddykid you don't need you own server for a low traffic site or 10
[18:10] <Upu> and that woosh goes vertical very quickly
[18:11] <daveake> yep, it's just the falling burning latex to worry about
[18:11] <cuddykid> Upu: yeah, it would mainly be to play about with - but looking at the costs, unlikely.
[18:11] <fsphil> yea, H2 goes up and latex goes down
[18:11] <daveake> cuddykid to play get an old PC a fixed IP (or use dyndns) and host your own
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[18:12] <cuddykid> daveake: that was the plan, but my home internet is diabolical - upload is ~0.3mbps
[18:12] <Lunar_Lander> daveake: in the Scientific Ballooning Handbook they describe safety measures for filling those giant balloons with H2
[18:12] <daveake> for a real site I use Krystal who are fine; before I used streamline who aren't
[18:12] <Lunar_Lander> everyone would have to stay upwind of the balloon
[18:12] <daveake> sensible
[18:12] <Lunar_Lander> in case it explodes, the melting plastic wouldn't hit the crew
[18:12] <Lunar_Lander> and molten plastic is nasty
[18:13] <Gear_> what about if it catches on fire, and the burning latex falls in a wooded area
[18:13] <daveake> just the filler/holder next to it, everyone else away
[18:13] <Gear_> after it's floated away
[18:13] <cuddykid> I'm with one.com atm - they're alright
[18:13] <daveake> don't do it near flammable stuff
[18:13] <Gear_> how far do your balloons go
[18:13] <daveake> not far if they burst
[18:14] <cuddykid> Gear_: at the weekend mine travelled 30km in altitude and over 100miles across the country
[18:14] <daveake> not in flames it didn't
[18:14] <fsphil> I can't think of any condition where it would ignite in the air?
[18:14] <Lunar_Lander> only lightning
[18:14] <Gear_> so if it doesn't catch on fire immediately and engulf the crew on flames, it's merely going to float 100 miles and land somewhere and only POSSIBLY catch on fire
[18:15] <fsphil> if the balloon has a hole the helium will escape, it will mix outside the balloon
[18:15] <daveake> yep. but the flames last seconds and that's that
[18:15] <daveake> yes, a hole when filling wouldn't be good
[18:15] <fsphil> that's the biggest risk
[18:15] <daveake> yep
[18:15] <Gear_> but landing on someone's house then catching on fire would be fine
[18:16] <Gear_> or in an urban area, on powerlines or something
[18:16] <fsphil> if it's landed, it's burst
[18:16] <daveake> they go up, burst, come down
[18:16] <fsphil> there won't be any or much H2 left
[18:16] <Upu> You notice one of the features about the balloons we launch Gear_ is they go up
[18:16] <Upu> at 5m/s they tend to clear most urban objects in about 2 seconds
[18:17] <daveake> indeedy
[18:17] <Gear_> and it's impossible for a slow leak to develop somehow then have it descend on a house or populated area?
[18:18] <Upu> no thats a possibility
[18:18] <Upu> so what happens then ?
[18:19] <Upu> it hits the deck and explodes hollywood style ?
[18:19] <Gear_> something/one catches on fire...
[18:19] <daveake> the chance of a small leak that would do that and then land, with enough h2 to do damage, and then find something to ignite it, and for that to then cause someone some harm, is vanishingly small
[18:21] <Gear_> I can't seem to find any scale model hindenberg re-enactments
[18:21] <Gear_> that's something I would have thought someone DEFINITELY has done by now
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[18:22] <Upu> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=mythbusters+hindenberg
[18:22] <Gear_> not those jerks
[18:22] <Gear_> I hate everything they do
[18:22] <Upu> oh now you are trolling
[18:22] <daveake> get away
[18:23] <Upu> lol
[18:23] <Gear_> seriously, some of you guys must use scientific method
[18:23] <Gear_> those mythbusters idiots have one control and then do one or two "experiments" that usually BARELY relate to the myth they're trying to prove or debunk
[18:24] <Gear_> they might as well "prove" that the one inch punch is impossible by trying it twice and then announcing their conclusion
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[18:43] <eroomde> Gear_: you would barely notice a helium fire from a balloon
[18:43] <eroomde> it rises so quickly
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[18:44] <eroomde> and it's so poorly mixed that the rate at which heat is output is pretty low
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[18:46] <Randomskk> do you mean hydrogen?
[18:46] <Gear_> just sounds dangerous releasing a giant balloon filled with HIGHLY flammable gas to float wherever the wind takes it, compared to releasing one filled with inert gas
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[18:47] Action: LazyLeopard parses "helium fire" and assumes the wrong element was named...
[18:47] <LazyLeopard> ;)
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[18:51] <Randomskk> Gear_: all things considered it's really pretty not dangerous
[18:51] <Randomskk> depends on your criteria I guess
[18:52] <Gear_> is there anyone here involved in kites?
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[18:54] Nick change: daveake_ -> dangerousdave
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[18:57] Nick change: dangerousdave -> daveake
[19:02] <cuddykid> take a look at this - http://i.imgur.com/wJG8Q.png
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[19:23] <cuddykid> new blog post! - http://habexperiments.wordpress.com/
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[19:42] Action: fsphil peeks back in
[19:42] <fsphil> ah, safe
[19:42] <daveake> lol
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[19:46] <number10> as high as a k*** -> someone on G***
[19:47] <fsphil> I tried a kite once, it was in sand more than the air
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[19:51] <daveake> You tried a kite on a beach? I hope you didn't decapitate any innocent kiddies trying to build their sandcastles
[19:52] <fsphil> snazzy: http://www.rapidonline.com/Tools-Equipment/Brow-Guard-and-Full-Face-Shield-89-2882/
[19:52] <daveake> snazzy and cheap http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Clear-Safety-Face-Mask-Shield-Visor-NEW-/280801679267?pt=UK_BOI_ProtectiveGear_RL&hash=item41611597a3#ht_4621wt_963
[19:52] <fsphil> none that I know about. although there where a lot of unattended sandcastles
[19:52] <fsphil> even better!
[19:53] <daveake> those sandcastles have feelings, you know
[19:58] <fsphil> "Telephone - Unable to process the information provided. Please contact eBay customer support"
[19:58] <fsphil> "... and call them names"
[20:01] <fsphil> weird, mobile number works
[20:05] <number10> I take it you are having some probs with an ebay purchase
[20:07] <fsphil> yea, required a phone number but wouldn't accept the home one
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[20:28] <cuddykid> Laurenceb_: I've uploaded all the data here - http://habexperiments.wordpress.com/
[20:28] <cuddykid> also annotated one of the graphs :) http://i.imgur.com/wJG8Q.png
[20:33] <Laurenceb_> interesting stuff
[20:47] <eroomde> cuddykid: can you do voltage vs time please?
[20:49] <eroomde> i'd be interested to see if theres an obvious rotation frequency in there that explains the big power vraition
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[20:52] <cuddykid> eroomde: hmm - that one will be a little more tricky - I can get the time stamps out of the strings fine, however would excel pick up the HH:MM:SS format?
[20:53] <daveake> yes
[20:53] <cuddykid> but, yes, it would be very interesting :)
[20:53] <cuddykid> brill - I'll try and knock one up
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[20:58] <cuddykid> hmm - the ":" keeps breaking the array up, both atoi and atof don't work
[20:59] <Laurenceb_> http://web.archive.org/web/20110408142833/http://chromeadblock.com/freedom/
[21:02] <cuddykid> all: this is in C - if I have many many char arrays, say one of them is, "10:50:25" - how would I go about putting that array inside of a big array as one element? For the others I've just used atoi and atof to store in big float and int arrays
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[21:19] <fsphil> you could take each part and convert them to seconds, then add them ... (10 * 24 * 60) + (50 * 60) + 25
[21:19] <fsphil> would give you a single number you could sort with
[21:19] <cuddykid> yep - a possibility
[21:22] <fsphil> sscanf can do the actual parsing of it
[21:22] <fsphil> something like sscanf(timestr, "%d:%d:%d", &hours, &minutes, &seconds);
[21:23] <cuddykid> yep :D
[21:24] <cuddykid> can sscanf take in an array?
[21:24] <cuddykid> e.g. char array containing 10:15:20 ?
[21:24] <fsphil> yea, char array is just a string
[21:24] <fsphil> assuming it's null terminated anyway
[21:26] <cuddykid> yup
[21:29] <eroomde> yes - seconds are a good basis for this graph
[21:29] <fsphil> a potentially broke ft790 went for £60
[21:30] <eroomde> makes it easier to run it through a fourier transform
[21:31] <cuddykid> there's a slight problem though shouldn't make a big diff - the "no gps" strings don't have time updated (as it's GPS time stamp) but do have updated readings
[21:34] <eroomde> how often are the readings?
[21:34] <eroomde> are the consistant?
[21:34] <cuddykid> No gps ones are every 5 or so
[21:34] <cuddykid> and readings are every 5seconds or so - time it takes for string to transmit
[21:35] <fsphil> madness: http://libwebpjs.hohenlimburg.org/vp8/webm-javascript-decoder/
[21:39] <eroomde> hrm, better hope the rotation period is < 10s!
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[21:39] <eroomde> otherwise we wont see it in the data
[21:39] <eroomde> well, we will, but not directly
[21:39] <eroomde> oh, it's time for a beer
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[21:40] <Laurenceb_> i could do with one of those
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[21:40] Action: Laurenceb_ has been soldering for 8hours now
[21:40] <Laurenceb_> making 12x stm32 datalogger boards
[21:40] <cuddykid> eroomde: http://i.imgur.com/jRGCD.png
[21:41] <cuddykid> interesting
[21:41] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: i spent a good chunk of today soldering too
[21:41] <eroomde> with a new solder paste
[21:41] <eroomde> still hot air
[21:41] <eroomde> all the 0805 caps seemed to want to tombstone
[21:42] <eroomde> cuddykid: could you put the dataset somewhere?
[21:42] <eroomde> ideally a csv, 2 column
[21:42] <eroomde> i suspect you are seeing rotation
[21:42] <eroomde> a more or less constant frequency
[21:43] <eroomde> amplitude increases as altitude increases
[21:44] <Laurenceb_> http://i.imgur.com/heyaV.png
[21:44] <Laurenceb_> impressive increase in performance
[21:44] <Laurenceb_> of the panel
[21:45] <Laurenceb_> managed to get it down to ~30minutes per board
[21:45] <cuddykid> eroomde: give me a couple of mins, I'll try and get it done before I go out
[21:45] <Laurenceb_> most of the time is populating it
[21:46] <eroomde> indeed
[21:46] <eroomde> slow work
[21:49] <cuddykid> eroomde: try this http://dl.dropbox.com/u/901991/data.csv
[21:51] <fsphil> talk about a weird place for one of my photos to show up: http://www.ecrans.fr/Twitter-et-les-politiques-c-est-un,12577.html
[21:51] <eroomde> nice
[21:51] <eroomde> did you see this random stumble-upon the other day?
[21:52] <eroomde> ^ fsphil
[21:52] <fsphil> I did!
[21:52] <fsphil> anyone know who's setup that is?
[21:52] <eroomde> nope
[21:53] <fsphil> Oto Godfrey from the file name
[21:53] <fsphil> nice setup
[21:54] <cuddykid> eroomde: do you think the first part in particular is showing rotation? looks like it to me
[21:54] <fsphil> designery type: http://www.otogodfrey.com/
[21:54] <cuddykid> but then why does it die away after about 1/3 way through? possibly - change in winds?
[21:57] <eroomde> i don;t think it is dieing off is it?
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[22:01] <cuddykid> don't think so - I'll check it out at the weekend as I don't have it with me atm
[22:01] <cuddykid> eroomde: I very much doubt it due to the Altitude vs Voltages graph
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[22:59] Action: Laurenceb_ is reading RPi datasheet
[22:59] Action: Upu is going to bed nn
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[23:01] <Laurenceb_> looks nicer than STM32 XD
[23:01] <fsphil-laptop> night Upu
[23:01] <Laurenceb_> datasheet is a little messy
[23:01] <Laurenceb_> cya
[23:01] Action: fsphil-laptop is trying to find something decent to listen to while writing javascript
[23:04] <Laurenceb_> harder to solder and power than stm32 of course XD
[23:05] <Laurenceb_> oh wait ints ARM11
[23:06] <Laurenceb_> interrupts are utter fail
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[00:00] --- Wed Feb 8 2012