[00:00] <nigelvh_> We don't launch our balloons there. We do our rockets out in black rock. Our balloons we do much closer to home here in washington. Depending on the jet stream, they'll fall half a mile from where we launched them, up to about 50 miles.
[00:00] <daveake_> My prediction is north (briefly),south,east,south,north
[00:00] <nigelvh_> Once the students graduate from balloons, we stick them onto rockets.
[00:00] <Darkside> you stick the students onto rockets?
[00:00] <daveake_> physically? ;)
[00:00] <Darkside> awesome
[00:01] <daveake_> I want to be a student
[00:01] <nigelvh_> They squirm a bit, but with enough duct tape, it works out alright.
[00:01] <Darkside> i want to do that to some of the undergrads i have to teach
[00:02] Action: daveake_ imagines RocketBoy being so strapped
[00:02] <nigelvh_> We do the rockets out in the desert because some of them have "unpredictable flight paths" and we want a wide safety margin and few onlookers.
[00:02] <Darkside> i'd better get into uni...
[00:02] <Darkside> cya later
[00:03] <nigelvh_> Sounds good, it's about time for me to make the afternoon slog home as well.
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[07:43] <griffonbot> Received email: James Coxon "[UKHAS] Fwd: [BLT] FW: Balloon Launch- Feb. 11th"
[07:44] Action: fsphil vs 7am... so far 7am is winning. bah
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[07:46] <fsphil> ambitious goal for that launch
[07:46] <fsphil> no mention of frequency though
[07:46] <jcoxon> its agile
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[07:47] <jcoxon> us freq
[07:47] <jcoxon> then iss freq mid atlantic
[07:47] <jcoxon> then europe ferq
[07:47] <jcoxon> freq*
[07:47] <fsphil> oooh smart
[07:47] <fsphil> just spotted that on the website
[07:48] <number10> for some reason or it system blocks that website
[07:48] <number10> our
[07:49] <fsphil> using a kenwood
[07:49] <fsphil> explains how the can retune
[07:49] <fsphil> +y
[07:49] <fsphil> this will be fun
[07:51] <jcoxon> potentially steve and i will be doing something similar next weekend
[07:51] <jcoxon> but this SPoT is playing up
[07:51] <jcoxon> well the SPoT isn't
[07:51] <jcoxon> but hte micro is
[07:51] <jcoxon> i'm actually beginning to suspect hardware
[07:56] <jcoxon> fsphil, http://nstar.org/GFS/10mb/10mb.024.png
[07:56] <jcoxon> so a texas launch
[07:56] <jcoxon> might get caught in a bit of a loop over africa
[07:56] <UpuWork> morning
[08:00] <jcoxon> hey UpuWork
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[08:01] <UpuWork> oo a floater
[08:02] <UpuWork> not coming to the UK though
[08:02] <jcoxon> certainly not
[08:02] <number10> are those wind at ground/sea level jcoxon?
[08:02] <jcoxon> those are 10mb
[08:02] <jcoxon> so 30km ish
[08:02] <UpuWork> as high as we have data for
[08:03] <UpuWork> We need someone to launch from Hudson Bay to get to us
[08:06] <jcoxon> bbl
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[08:12] <number10> dry again daveake
[08:12] <number10> just
[08:12] <daveake> ,homer>Whoohoo!</homer>
[08:13] <natrium42> XMLParseError
[08:13] <daveake> eys-still-blurry error
[08:13] <daveake> eyes
[08:15] <daveake> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=9a1b8c72d42b670a083b41b7a71d6ce3fa37bc5d not tooooo bad
[08:17] <daveake> The data from 6pm yesterday was similar
[08:17] <daveake> I can see the decision on this waiting till tomorrow morning
[08:18] <number10> I presume that you are changing the descent rate based on varying the chute size?
[08:18] <daveake> Yep
[08:18] <daveake> I've been trying all sorts - different balloon sizes, fills, payload weights, chute sizes.
[08:19] <daveake> I have 2 balloon sizes, 3 different payloads and 3 different chutes
[08:19] <daveake> And even so there aeren't many winning combinations :D
[08:23] <number10> I wouldnt even know how to go about working it all out - I think I have seen something on the wiki about lift and ascent rate
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[08:23] <daveake> I just use the CUSF calculator
[08:24] <daveake> But more He means faster scent earlier burst
[08:25] <daveake> Less weight means faster ascent later burst
[08:25] <Darkside> evening all
[08:25] <Darkside> daveake: i've got my RFM22B running :D
[08:25] <daveake> woohoo
[08:27] <daveake> Planning on flying it soon?
[08:28] <Darkside> maybe
[08:28] <Darkside> still need to do testing
[08:28] <Darkside> wheres the code you worked from?
[08:28] <daveake> James' git - https://github.com/jamescoxon
[08:29] <Darkside> ok
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[08:29] <daveake> https://github.com/jamescoxon/Misc-Projects/tree/master/RFM22
[08:30] <daveake> Plus I copied the setFrequency() code from the big RF22 Arduino library
[08:30] <Darkside> ok
[08:30] <daveake> Only thing different I'm doing really is that the rtty code is from a timer int
[08:31] <Darkside> yeah i have libraries that i can do this with
[08:31] <Darkside> all i have to do is provide a tx_bit(char c) function that sets te output frequency accordingly
[08:32] <daveake> yep
[08:32] <Darkside> tx_bit(char c){if(c) set_freq(A); else set_freq(B);}
[08:32] <daveake> yep
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[09:12] <NickB1> cuddykid, launching today ?
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[09:18] <daveake> Not seeing his notam on http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=http:%2F%2Fmetutil.appspot.com%2FNotamData%3Ftype%3DTASK%26name%3DUK_2DAY_WR_KML&ie=UTF8&ll=53.357109,-2.944336&spn=10.356452,19.753418&t=p&z=6
[09:19] <WillDuckworth> supposedly he got it late yesterday - still think he's on for tomorrow before you Dave
[09:20] <daveake> Yes, I'm sure that's the case. If he was on for today it'd be on the map by now.
[09:20] <WillDuckworth> think it's on http://notaminfo.com/ukmap
[09:21] <WillDuckworth> as a met balloon release
[09:21] <daveake> I tried there first for today and it wasn't there. So yes, tomorrow.
[09:21] <WillDuckworth> what freq are you on tomorrow daveake?
[09:22] <daveake> The plan is the main one on .650 and the test on on .2
[09:22] <daveake> cuddykid is on .075
[09:24] <daveake> I say "plan" because although the prediction is OK at the mo, there's some variability and I'm having to be careful with launch time and ascent rate. I don't really want to lose a photographic payload in the sea (again) so depending on how the predictions go between now and tomorrow, I may have to postpone or perhaps fly a different payload
[09:25] <WillDuckworth> better safe than sorry - the wind directions have been a pain recently
[09:25] <daveake> Yep
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[09:30] <daveake> I could just fly the rfm22 payload, and wave goodbye to it :p. It's very light so then I could go for altitude or try and get it to float to see how far those work over.
[09:31] <daveake> It'd be a sham after all that work soldering it up though!
[09:37] <daveake> shame even :)
[09:38] <daveake> Having a bit of an argument with an ebay vendor who seems to think that it's perfectly reasonable to have to wait more than 2 weeks for an item (allegedly) sent from London to Berkshire ...
[09:39] <fsphil> via Hong Kong probably
[09:40] <gonzo_> always fun when they do that and you tget a customs charge. Lots of arguing
[09:40] <daveake> Indeed. The listing says "shipped from UK" and "from our London warehouse", and they've yet to anwer my repeated question of "where was this shipped FROM". I don't mind at all buying from china but so long as they're up-front with that fact and the expected delivery time
[09:43] <cuddykid> morning morning
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[09:43] <cuddykid> time to check predictions& eek :/
[09:46] <cuddykid> launch still on
[09:46] <cuddykid> predictions haven't changed much :)
[09:46] <daveake> This is the data from midnight?
[09:46] <cuddykid> whenever I launch - the prediction just has it going around the very very outskirts of north london
[09:46] <daveake> linky?
[09:47] <cuddykid> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=95f7ce996c90bfd635dd7e2a1513c6f6865c64ab
[09:47] <eroomde> daveake: how's it looking for you tomorrow?
[09:47] <daveake> Possible
[09:47] <cuddykid> NickB1: tomorrow launch
[09:48] <daveake> But ... only if I launch later than planned and with a highish ascent (6m/s)
[09:48] <eroomde> hemel hempstead
[09:48] <eroomde> i've never ever been there, or close
[09:48] <daveake> Land on the magic roundabout
[09:48] <eroomde> but for some reason i seem to remember that most of the robots on robot wars were from hemel hempstead
[09:48] <cuddykid> lol
[09:48] <Darkside> is that series available online anywhere?
[09:48] <daveake> :) Nothing else to do probably
[09:48] <cuddykid> going for a fast ascent rate - and fast decent (from memory the chute last time gave ~9ms descent)
[09:49] <eroomde> Darkside: no idea
[09:52] <cuddykid> slower ascent and higher altitude - http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=193cb89a8d781e071101fafb134518e6aecfa55e
[09:53] <cuddykid> I now have to get all the electronics packaged up :P
[09:58] <daveake> wot size/type balloon?
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[10:12] <NickB1> just got a call for my request to launch in march
[10:13] <NickB1> they dont take habing very light in belgium :/
[10:15] <cuddykid> daveake: the mysterious hwoyee 1000g ;)
[10:16] <cuddykid> hence my cutdown device :P
[10:16] <daveake> Yeah, 3.5m/s is float material
[10:18] <cuddykid> managed it last summer, but it was probably a fluke
[10:18] <daveake> Depends on the balloon size probably as to what ascent rates end up as a float
[10:19] <daveake> Anyway don't let me slow you down getting ready :)
[10:27] <cuddykid> daveake: yet to start :P just finished the morning routine (breaky etc)
[10:27] <cuddykid> are you launching tomorrow?
[10:27] <daveake> Undecided
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[10:38] <cuddykid> final camera run through
[10:38] <cuddykid> the lithiums are just incredible
[10:39] <daveake> -y expensive
[10:39] <daveake> but yes, they're excellent
[10:39] <cuddykid> indeed
[10:40] <number10> any pics of the payload cuddykid ?
[10:41] <cuddykid> I run the payload off 6aas - I reckon I can get 24+hrs from them
[10:41] <cuddykid> number10: I'll post some later when I get a chance :)
[10:50] <cuddykid> all - do you think I should change the floats here to doubles just to be safe? http://pastebin.com/8NsYn8Hu
[10:51] <cuddykid> actually no - I forgot they were stored using IEEE stuff - should be fine then :)
[10:55] <Laurenceb> iirc avr-gcc doesnt support double
[10:56] <Laurenceb> why is radians a function?!
[10:56] <Laurenceb> #define M_PI/180.0 RADIANS
[10:58] <cuddykid> Laurenceb: dunno, I'm just using ardupilot code for that bit
[10:58] <fsphil> Laurenceb, other way around?
[10:59] <Laurenceb> not if you want radians from degrees
[10:59] <fsphil> the define I mean, #define RADIANS M_PI/180.0
[10:59] <Laurenceb> yes
[10:59] <Laurenceb> doh
[11:00] Action: fsphil was just changing about 100 #defines :)
[11:02] <fsphil> well 64, but it felt like 100. dunno why they didn't use enums
[11:03] <number10> well 64 is 100 fsphil ;)
[11:05] <daveake> Ah, hex jokes. They don't come better than that :)
[11:05] <zyp> nah, octal
[11:05] <daveake> oops
[11:05] <number10> I was trying to remember an old binary joke - but old age has set in
[11:05] <daveake> wakey wakey davey
[11:06] <fsphil> lol
[11:06] <fsphil> slipping
[11:06] <number10> and guess what the joke is on wiki There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.
[11:07] <daveake> :)
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[11:11] <daveake> 6am data in. Prediction looks to be unchanged. Best I can do is http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=b12827d271a14ccd824761b30627076f8170a198
[11:11] <fsphil> we could cound to 1023 in our fingers if we used binary
[11:11] <gonzo_> that joke only works written down though
[11:11] <daveake> yes but we couldn't type
[11:11] <fsphil> typing is overratted
[11:11] <gonzo_> that IS how I count in binary
[11:12] <daveake> ah there's the missing t
[11:12] <fsphil> knew it would turn up somewhere
[11:12] <daveake> lol
[11:12] <fsphil> though I've now got an excess D
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[11:14] <daveake> ebay seller says "no we really ship from London"
[11:14] <daveake> Various -ve feedback reports say otherwise
[11:14] <UpuWork> thats London in Hong Kong
[11:14] <fsphil> or canada?
[11:15] <daveake> You've been watching too much CNN
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[11:15] <daveake> London was in Norfolk last week
[11:15] <daveake> I wonder where it'll be for the olypics
[11:15] <daveake> m
[11:19] <fsphil> lol
[11:19] <fsphil> missed that
[11:19] <UpuWork> thats a sketchy prediction daveake :)
[11:19] <UpuWork> weather is changing rapidly
[11:19] <daveake> Yep
[11:19] <daveake> I think I'll need to postpone
[11:22] <UpuWork> http://www.wunderground.com/wundermap/?lat=53.41670&lon=-3.00000&zoom=4&type=hyb&units=metric&rad=0&wxsn=0&svr=0&cams=0&sat=0&riv=0&mm=1&mm.mdl=GFS&mm.type=200&mm.hour=0&mm.opa=100&mm.clk=0&hur=0&fire=0&tor=0&ndfd=0&pix=0&dir=0&ads=0&tfk=0&ski=0&stormreports=0
[11:23] <UpuWork> actually its not changing as much now
[11:23] <cuddykid> still looks ok for mine - http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=b2d10c163abfad53fd29a048199a620354275ca0
[11:23] <UpuWork> what balloon are you using ?
[11:23] <cuddykid> daveake: if you got the ascent etc fairly good then it would probably be fine
[11:23] <cuddykid> Hwoyee 1000G
[11:23] <UpuWork> looks ok that on
[11:23] <UpuWork> e
[11:23] <cuddykid> I'm going to set my cutdown radius to make sure that the balloon doesn't go anywhere near london
[11:24] <daveake> UpuWork Plan is 1000g Hwoyee, 800g payload
[11:24] <UpuWork> yeah should be fine
[11:24] <daveake> I have a 1600g Hwoyee but that makes it worse :D
[11:24] <UpuWork> wouldn't be using any of these sketchy 1600g balloons without cut downs in unpredictable conditions
[11:24] <daveake> Nope!
[11:25] <daveake> Also I could fly a 250g payload instead if necessary
[11:25] <number10> do the lighter ballons burst more reliably?
[11:25] <daveake> I have 3 sizes of parachute to adjust that side
[11:26] <daveake> Well cloud2 had one, and went much higher than expected, but that was underfilled. I'm not sure if we have enough data to really answer that question, but I think yes the 1600 is more variable.
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[11:27] <number10> ta
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[11:47] <cuddykid> ping WillDuckworth
[11:47] <cuddykid> daveake: do you have a cutdown?
[11:48] <daveake> No
[11:48] <cuddykid> cool
[11:48] <cuddykid> solar panel stuff finally soldered up :D
[11:48] <cuddykid> solar 1 is using a 150ohm load; solar 2 is using a 200ohm load
[11:48] <cuddykid> voltages are being sent down - then power can be worked out etc
[11:49] <WillDuckworth> hi
[11:49] <fsphil> are you powering anything from the panels? or just resistors?
[11:51] <cuddykid> Hi WillDuckworth :) just wondering - are you able to help out at all tomorrow morning before your rels come? Don't worry if it's going to be a nuisance/rush etc!
[11:51] <cuddykid> fsphil - just logging data for this flight
[11:51] <WillDuckworth> i'll have to wait and see....
[11:51] <cuddykid> data should be displayed on the space near tracker
[11:51] <cuddykid> no probs :)
[11:51] <daveake> cuddykid correct answer :)
[11:52] <daveake> Has your payload come up from underground yet?
[11:52] <cuddykid> lol daveake - I wouldn't trust myself to do that
[11:52] <cuddykid> yeah!
[11:52] <cuddykid> yesterday it surfaced :P
[11:52] <cuddykid> quite a rapid ascent though, went from -47m to 80m in about a second :/
[11:53] <fsphil> what's the eta?
[11:53] <fsphil> or etl even
[11:53] <cuddykid> I'm going to set up around 10ish - earlier the better
[11:54] <fsphil> eta sounds better
[11:54] <cuddykid> but likely to be around 11am launch
[11:54] <cuddykid> ET blast off
[11:54] <fsphil> tomorrow?
[11:54] <cuddykid> yar
[11:54] <fsphil> will make sure to setup my rig tonight
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[11:54] <cuddykid> pending completion of my payload! Just come in from the garage as my fingers are numb :P
[11:54] <cuddykid> thanks fsphil
[11:55] <fsphil> the easy radio is on 869mhz sin't it?
[11:57] <daveake> lil' Pink Buzz is now in the freezer
[11:58] <fsphil> it's like a little pink deathstar
[11:58] <daveake> :D
[11:59] <daveake> 4 deg o/s toasty 38 inside
[12:00] <griffonbot> Received email: Solar Balloonman "[UKHAS] Re: CLOUD3 Flight Announcement"
[12:01] <fsphil> where in the uk sells the dallas temperature sensors?
[12:01] <fsphil> I can't seemto find them
[12:01] <daveake> At this rate, I will be :)
[12:02] <griffonbot> Received email: Solar Balloonman "[UKHAS] Re: HABE2 Flight Announcement"
[12:02] <daveake> Seriously, want some? I have plenty spare
[12:02] <fsphil> lol
[12:02] <fsphil> if you don't mind, I only need a couple
[12:02] <daveake> Sure, send me an addy
[12:03] <jonsowman> fsphil: ds18b20s?
[12:03] <jonsowman> farnell definitely sell them but you can free sample them via maxim
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[12:04] <fsphil> ah, farnell. I was looking at cpc
[12:04] <fsphil> see them in proto-pic too
[12:04] <daveake> Just don't buy from ebay :p
[12:05] <fsphil> from london, via outer mongolia
[12:05] <fsphil> worst thing is, I'm certain I have one or two somewhere. I just can't find them
[12:05] <daveake> sounds familiar ..........
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[12:18] <cuddykid> fsphil: easy radio is on 433.something I believe
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[12:18] <cuddykid> I remember I found out what it was on and it wasn't 434.075 or .650 so all good :)
[12:19] <cuddykid> I've got loads of free sample temp sensors from maxim
[12:19] <cuddykid> new blog post - http://habexperiments.wordpress.com/2012/02/03/habe2-launch-tomorrow/
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[12:23] <fsphil> the default quantity is 2, how many can you requset without looking suspicious?
[12:23] <griffonbot> Received email: Adam Cudworth "[UKHAS] Re: HABE2 Flight Announcement"
[12:24] <cuddykid> fsphil: I think I did 5
[12:24] <cuddykid> they did stop one of my requests once I think
[12:24] <cuddykid> some get through some don't
[12:24] <cuddykid> just do multiple batches of 2 - the system is automated I believe
[12:25] <eroomde> daveake: latest pred?
[12:26] <daveake> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=fa64d5626c0c58c2614fa2c6a3ccaf152c0a3dcb
[12:26] <daveake> That's for 1pm. 10am --> wet
[12:26] <eroomde> gorra be worth a punt
[12:27] <daveake> :)
[12:27] <eroomde> well, except for the fliration with gatwick approach
[12:27] <eroomde> flirtation*
[12:27] <daveake> Yeah quite high tho
[12:28] <cuddykid> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=d4b23cea427554d77a47df49eb3227f3ceefaeda
[12:28] <daveake> I can move the landing east but also south, so a bit close to the sea
[12:28] <cuddykid> hasn't changed much in the last 24hrs
[12:28] <daveake> nope
[12:29] <cuddykid> :)
[12:29] <daveake> Could do this - http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=eb4e8222132c61da6d33e074f142f165acaca16a
[12:29] <daveake> If I think it's close to a sea landing I could use a smaller/cheaper payload.
[12:30] <fsphil> tried for 5
[12:30] <daveake> I can do any of 3 - full fat with 2 cameras and SMS backup, around 750g. One camera around 250g. No cameras 60g
[12:30] <fsphil> "Please note that we are unable to immediately process your order as the following part(s) require Business Manager authorization"
[12:30] <fsphil> uh-oh :)
[12:30] Dan-K2VOL (~Dan-K2VOL@74-134-73-252.dhcp.insightbb.com) joined #highaltitude.
[12:30] <daveake> If you need some quick let me know
[12:31] <joph> fsphil, what did you order?
[12:31] <daveake> The middle one doesn't actually exist yet, but I'll put it together later today. Existing electronics just need sticking in a poly ball, and an aerial made up
[12:31] <joph> miltary IC? :D
[12:31] <fsphil> military grade temperature sensors :)
[12:32] <cuddykid> I *may* be able to do a live ustream&. as I do get 3G signal there&. a possibility!
[12:32] <joph> lol
[12:32] <eroomde> what's the advantage of them fsphil ?
[12:32] <joph> for your new long distance missle? :D
[12:32] <fsphil> eroomde, it was the only sample they had
[12:32] <joph> *range
[12:35] <daveake> Beroomde New plan then - we'll launch close to 1pm (that's the end of my time slot), so launch prep from noon and food from 11 or so
[12:36] <daveake> Where'd that B come from? :p
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[12:36] <fsphil> bedroom?
[12:36] <daveake> bonkers
[12:36] <daveake> Me, not Ed
[12:36] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) joined #highaltitude.
[12:37] <eroomde> ok
[12:37] <eroomde> cool
[12:37] <eroomde> i might not be able to help chase I'm afraid
[12:37] <eroomde> am hosting sat eve
[12:37] <cuddykid> eroomde: where are you based?
[12:37] <Laurenceb> http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/422282_266890593381136_100001805924368_654627_1665942012_n.jpg
[12:37] <eroomde> Beroomde is my malawean cousin
[12:38] <cuddykid> lol
[12:38] <daveake> lol
[12:39] <daveake> eroomde OK, no problem, of course!
[12:39] <gonzo__> all he needs is a 7hz siggen
[12:39] <daveake> and a new rear screen
[12:43] <cuddykid> got my good old garmin etrex to help track down in unknown areas :P
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[12:44] <eroomde> must fix the kml issue on the predictor
[12:44] <eroomde> tis annoying
[12:44] <daveake> Yeah. I just delete the first line then it's happy.
[12:44] <eroomde> yeah
[12:44] <eroomde> found the issue
[12:44] <eroomde> tis a small fix
[12:45] <eroomde> it constructs the kml output file from an array of lines like so:
[12:45] <daveake> Buzz is now -15 outside and 7 inside
[12:45] <eroomde> $kmlOut = join("\n", $kml);
[12:45] <eroomde> which you can see will introduce a preceeding \n
[12:45] <cuddykid> the local press are covering the launch again
[12:46] <Dan-K2VOL> cuddykid, what's your website again?
[12:47] <cuddykid> Dan-K2VOL: habexperiments.wordpress.com
[12:47] Action: daveake switches freezer to "super"
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[12:50] <daveake> tsk, wish people would read the DATE on a notam before calling me about their flight TODAY
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[12:50] <fsphil> at least they phoned
[12:50] <fsphil> I bet most ignore it
[12:51] <daveake> yep. My first flight had a small plane and a heli fly past
[12:52] <fsphil> three of four launches I've had a small aircraft flying about
[12:52] <eroomde> most launches we've had stuff flying about
[12:52] <Dan-K2VOL> perhaps they're watching you :-P
[12:52] <eroomde> tis the problem with being so close to an airport
[12:52] <daveake> Yeah, I think they want to see what's going on
[12:53] <Dan-K2VOL> that's why I like launching FROM the airport
[12:53] <daveake> Not so close here. I don't have to call ATC for mine.
[12:53] <daveake> Dan-K2VOL Suppose I could try launching from Heathrow ... :D
[12:53] <Dan-K2VOL> hahaha
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[12:54] <fsphil> our launch site is about 30 miles from any airport :)
[12:54] <Dan-K2VOL> wow, it's tough to get that far from airports around here, there's so many small ones
[12:55] <eroomde> same
[12:55] <fsphil> there are three big ones here, thankfully all in the north or east
[12:55] <eroomde> v busy here
[12:55] <eroomde> we're lucky in cambridge though
[12:56] <eroomde> out the way of any major air corridors
[12:56] <Dan-K2VOL> cool
[12:56] <eroomde> all the crap is to the south and west of us, and most of the balloons head northeast
[12:56] <fsphil> I think there's a lot of trans atlantic flights flying over here though
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[13:00] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[13:01] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] Re: CLOUD3 Flight Announcement"
[13:03] <Lunar_Lander> hello daveake
[13:07] <daveake> LO LL
[13:07] <daveake> fsphil bits in the post
[13:08] <fsphil> legend!
[13:08] <Lunar_Lander> hi fsphil
[13:08] <Lunar_Lander> what is the status?
[13:08] <daveake> I often here that. But usually as 2 words
[13:08] <daveake> hear
[13:08] <fsphil> comfortable :)
[13:08] <daveake> Cold outside
[13:08] Action: fsphil starts whistling the red dwarf theme
[13:09] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[13:09] <daveake> Let me fly
[13:09] <daveake> far away from here
[13:10] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[13:14] Action: fsphil is trying not to get excited over the new series this year, incase it's crap
[13:15] <daveake> Given recent experience, that's wise
[13:15] <fsphil> zactly
[13:15] <cuddykid> so cold in the garage!
[13:15] <cuddykid> well this is going to be fun trying to set up in this weather tomorrow :)
[13:16] <Lunar_Lander> which series?
[13:17] <fsphil> red dwarf
[13:17] <cuddykid> -8C tomorrow morning
[13:17] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[13:17] <fsphil> cuddykid, yep :) I've launched twice in freezing temps
[13:17] <cuddykid> I wish the payload luck!
[13:17] <fsphil> difficult to do anything
[13:17] <cuddykid> I can imagine :(
[13:18] <cuddykid> going to be very different to my summer launch
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[13:19] <Lunar_Lander> hi NigeyS
[13:19] <fsphil> I found it very difficult to type on the laptop
[13:19] <cuddykid> I'm going to have to make sure of a v fast ascent
[13:19] <fsphil> and the battery on the laptop just drained within 10 minutes
[13:19] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[13:19] <daveake> Laptop etc will be in the car, with engine running and heater on :)
[13:19] <cuddykid> yeah
[13:19] <fsphil> I made that mistake :)
[13:20] <fsphil> I left the car door opened
[13:20] <fsphil> the laptop got pretty chilled
[13:20] <cuddykid> daveake: looks like new wind data is
[13:20] <cuddykid> *in
[13:20] <cuddykid> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=4050b39abda4983fdb1d881e4dbae4c6fd9b1053
[13:20] <daveake> I'm not planning to do anything in the cold except inflate the balloon and tie to the chain
[13:20] <fsphil> I'm just glad I put the payload together in the house before I left
[13:20] <cuddykid> I'm going to do that I think - launch site is only ~100m away
[13:21] <daveake> Yep. That's what I'm doing. Plenty of spare capacity in SD cards and batteries.
[13:21] <Lunar_Lander> so we are go for flight?
[13:22] <daveake> definite
[13:22] <cuddykid> Lunar_Lander: yep
[13:22] <daveake> maybe
[13:22] <cuddykid> all clear for take off ;) - almost...
[13:22] <cuddykid> target ascent rate ~5m/s - target burst ~31km
[13:22] <cuddykid> descent rate ~8/9ms
[13:23] <cuddykid> "houston what the hell is that hurtling towards earth"
[13:23] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[13:24] <Lunar_Lander> OK
[13:24] <Lunar_Lander> cu later people
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[13:31] <fsphil> "Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No! It's a ... pink sphere with wires sticking out..."
[13:31] <daveake> :)
[13:36] <SamSilver_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=PUUnYgo1-lI
[13:36] <SamSilver_> http://www.gizmag.com/spacex-test-fires-superdraco-engine/21300/?utm_source=Gizmag+Subscribers&utm_campaign=7275654e20-UA-2235360-4&utm_medium=email
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[13:43] <eroomde> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-monitor
[13:43] <eroomde> recognise anything?
[13:44] <daveake> :D
[13:44] <daveake> Looks like 2 PCs 2 screens each
[13:45] <SamSilver_> nice screen saver
[13:46] <daveake> Does anyone know if the parachute sizing chart in the wiki is using the inflated diameter or the material diameter?
[13:47] <daveake> I assume the former, in which case for example this 36" sperachute is really 24" when using the chart
[13:47] <eroomde> can you link? can then work it out
[13:47] <daveake> http://www.ukhas.org.uk/guides:parachute_sizing_chart?s[]=parachute&s[]=diameter
[13:48] <cuddykid> dilema
[13:49] <cuddykid> where/how do I place/interface the cutdown
[13:49] <daveake> Above the chute is good
[13:49] <cuddykid> I'm thinking let the chute drape below the payload and the cutdown near the payload box on the line to balloon?
[13:49] <cuddykid> 2 separate lines - 1 for chute, 1 for balloon
[13:49] <cuddykid> chute is below payload on ascent
[13:49] <eroomde> daveake: I wouldn't trust it
[13:50] <eroomde> it has coefficients of drag of 1.5
[13:50] <eroomde> which no parachute has
[13:50] <daveake> OK. What do you source? Several calculators on the web
[13:50] <cuddykid> the payload is going to be such a botch job
[13:50] <daveake> Sorry, "what source do you use"
[13:50] <eroomde> i cheat cos i used to work for a specialist parachute consultancy
[13:51] <daveake> :)
[13:51] <cuddykid> trying to integrate old box and antennas with old board after I chopped the wires etc ...
[13:51] <eroomde> so i know a bit of the physics and emperical data for different parachute designs
[13:51] <eroomde> i keep saying i am going to do a parachute 101 blog post
[13:51] <eroomde> never do
[13:51] <eroomde> fill, out, pull
[13:52] <daveake> I have 3 spherachutes (round when opened) - 30", 36" and 48" and those are the material diameters not the inflated diameters
[13:52] <eroomde> daveake: what kind of chute do you have?
[13:52] <eroomde> ah ok
[13:54] <daveake> Plus a coouple of small chutes
[13:55] <eroomde> well the annoying short answer is that lots of people assume different things about drag coefficients
[13:55] <eroomde> whether they are projected area or nominal surface area or what
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[13:58] <eroomde> so anyway, CdS is usually the surface area of the canopy including the vent and any other openings
[13:58] <eroomde> or rather, 'S' is usually that
[13:59] <eroomde> and the Cd will be given based on that
[13:59] <eroomde> and it'll be maybe 0.4-0.8 or something
[14:00] <daveake> Should I ask an easier question, like what the ultimate question is?
[14:00] <cuddykid> eroomde (chute expert) I need some advice please :D
[14:00] <eroomde> annoyingly i don't have ayep i'm just hunting round for an online ref for the stuff i have at home
[14:01] <daveake> :)
[14:01] <eroomde> to actually work out the only thing that matters in this case - vertical rate of descent
[14:01] <cuddykid> eroomde: What's the best way to integrate the cutdown? My fear is that if I drape the chute below the payload it 1) may tangle and 2) fail to write itself
[14:01] <cuddykid> eroomde: alternatively: having it "inline" through the chute could also tangle
[14:01] <eroomde> we, before, have run two thin wires up the chute lines and canopy to a cutdown at the apex of the chute
[14:02] <cuddykid> did that work ok?
[14:02] <eroomde> yep worked fine
[14:02] <eroomde> but obviously don't use really thick wire
[14:02] <cuddykid> cool - may do that then
[14:02] <cuddykid> yeah
[14:02] <eroomde> we used thin silicon stuff
[14:02] <eroomde> or you can run it up vertically through the middle of the inline chute
[14:02] <cuddykid> I think there is probably less chance of something going wrong that way
[14:03] <eroomde> or, you can do a sort of bodgify
[14:03] <cuddykid> :P
[14:03] <eroomde> but explaining the bodgify with nothing but ascii is beyond me
[14:03] <cuddykid> haha - no probs, I'll run it inline I think
[14:03] <cuddykid> but I need masses of wire
[14:03] <cuddykid> (length)
[14:04] <eroomde> yep
[14:04] <eroomde> why the cutdown anywho?
[14:09] <eroomde> daveake: sorry i got distracted
[14:09] <eroomde> a book arrived
[14:09] <UpuWork> anything interesting ?
[14:09] <daveake> np
[14:09] <eroomde> (pattern recognition and machine learning - a joyous bible to bayes)
[14:09] <eroomde> ok so
[14:09] <eroomde> equilibrium drag equation:
[14:09] <eroomde> drag = 0.5 * density * v^2 * Cd * S
[14:10] <UpuWork> ponies ?
[14:10] <eroomde> we are in equilibrium under a parachute, so the drag is equal to the weight = mass * g
[14:11] <eroomde> so rearranging for velocity
[14:11] <eroomde> v = sqrt( (2 * mass * g) / (density * Cd * S))
[14:11] <cuddykid> eroomde: a couple of reasons: to test for glider project, to prevent the payload floating off (hwoyee) and to guard against london landing :P
[14:11] <eroomde> erm, is that right.....
[14:11] <eroomde> i need some paper
[14:11] <eroomde> yes that is right
[14:11] <eroomde> ok
[14:11] <eroomde> so
[14:12] <eroomde> for a hemispherical chute, go for a coefficient of drag (Cd) of 0.7
[14:12] <eroomde> S = 'nominal' area which is the srea of the shute by material surface area
[14:13] <eroomde> so, you calc the area from the diameter of the material rather than the diameter of the skirt when inflated, if you see what i mean
[14:13] <eroomde> then m is your payload and parachute and lines combined mass
[14:13] <eroomde> g = 9.81
[14:13] <eroomde> density is at sea level for air = 1.22
[14:14] <eroomde> so, that should be everything to calculate the landing velocity
[14:14] <eroomde> cuddykid: all good reasons
[14:14] Action: daveake gets back from making sandwich ...
[14:15] <daveake> ...erm, yeah, looks easy :D
[14:16] <daveake> I'll just go measure the inflated diameters
[14:24] <eroomde> no no!
[14:24] <eroomde> not inflated
[14:24] <eroomde> ok, gimme these numbers and i'll work it out for you
[14:24] <daveake> Sorry, thought that's what you asked earlier
[14:24] <eroomde> mass
[14:24] <daveake> 900g
[14:24] <eroomde> diameter of chute
[14:25] <eroomde> well actually you can give me inflated dia and i can work out the dia i need
[14:25] <daveake> Well flattened out it's 28", so circum 56"
[14:29] <daveake> If you haven't done it yet, make that 29".
[14:30] <cuddykid> camera is still going - be going about 6 hrs now
[14:30] <daveake> Yeah, no surprise there
[14:32] <cuddykid> is it worth sticking a 50ohm resistor on antenna wire?
[14:37] <natrium42> eroomde: what book did you get?
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[14:45] <natrium42> well, obviously he's reading it now
[14:46] <daveake> :)
[14:50] <fsphil> "One upon a time there was this giant balloon..."
[14:50] <natrium42> continue  _ 
[14:51] <fsphil> James and the Giant Balloon
[14:51] <daveake> :D
[14:51] <daveake> "... and it landed in a land far, far away"
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[14:52] <fsphil> "On a dark forest where no-one would dare go"
[14:52] <natrium42> "Wherefore art thou, large resin bubble?"
[14:54] <daveake> and he said "I'll huff and I'll puff and I'll blow your balloon away"
[14:54] <cuddykid> does the rf antenna wire need to be shielded by ground covering (e.g. coax) until 1/4 wave antenna?
[14:54] <natrium42> oh, there should be a Joseph Ducreux meme for HAB
[14:54] <fsphil> yes
[14:55] <cuddykid> fsphil: is that to me?
[14:55] <fsphil> yes :)
[14:55] <daveake> yes
[14:55] <cuddykid> damn
[14:55] <fsphil> it will radiate if not shielded
[14:56] <cuddykid> I need to create new payload box and everything then :(
[14:56] <daveake> And the little electrons won't know where to go
[14:57] <fsphil> you could either use coax to the antenna, or move the antenna closer to the ntx2
[14:58] <natrium42> coax the antenna, so to say
[15:00] <cuddykid> right ntx2 is probably ok - does a receiving radio need the same treatment?
[15:00] <daveake> yes
[15:00] <cuddykid> oh ****
[15:01] Action: daveake looks at clock
[15:01] <daveake> Don't panic, you've got hours to go :)
[15:01] <cuddykid> is there any easy way to coat wire in a ground thing
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[15:01] <daveake> Yeah it's called "coax" :-). How long it is?
[15:01] <cuddykid> problem with coax is it's not bendy!
[15:01] <cuddykid> I need about 10cm
[15:02] <daveake> If it's not bendy then it's too thick
[15:02] <cuddykid> problem is - I've got the payload box with 2 antennas made - but they need connecting up to the "flight board"
[15:02] <daveake> RG174 is thin and 50 ohms and I think Maplin have it
[15:02] <cuddykid> hence I was going to run wires from the radios to the antennas
[15:02] <natrium42> well, it's 7am, i should probably be getting to bed
[15:02] Action: natrium42 ponders
[15:03] <cuddykid> daveake: I'm off there now then :P
[15:03] <cuddykid> daveake: is ~2cm of wire (non coax) ok?
[15:04] <daveake> I'll await a radio guy to say, but I would think so
[15:04] <cuddykid> cool :)
[15:04] <daveake> This is cloud3's antenna, and I did the same on cloud1. http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveake/6696446635/in/set-72157628868749177
[15:04] <gonzo__> if you are using short length of coax and soldering it, RG174 is not ideal. It melts too easilly.
[15:04] <cuddykid> looks like the backup sms tracker is going to be even more relied upon
[15:04] <daveake> Stuff I have here seems OK
[15:04] <gonzo__> RG315 or the thinner version (305?) is easier. As it's PTFE inner and don't melt.
[15:04] <daveake> Noted :)
[15:05] <gonzo__> if you use unscreened wire for rf, it will radiate, so will be part of the antenna system
[15:06] <daveake> True, but you could say that about the terminals on the NTX2.
[15:06] <daveake> Obviously longer the unshielded bit is the worse the result
[15:08] <gonzo__> I assume the ntx2 has a groundplane on the board, so the track are microstriplines. The wire off the module should be straight on to another microstrip on the mounting pcb
[15:09] <daveake> ok, understood
[15:09] <gonzo__> my pcb is vero, so I stuck a pit of copper tape on the non track side to make a ground plane and soldered that to the ntx2 and antenna connector
[15:09] <daveake> :)
[15:10] <gonzo__> vero track isnear enough to 50ohm to make no difference
[15:12] <Darkside> i need to remember that...
[15:12] <daveake> handy
[15:12] <Darkside> transmitting on 40m makes my ADSL drop out
[15:18] <gonzo__> HF is a bad habbit! Though you are not condidered dead till you go on 80mtrs in the evenings
[15:23] <Dan-K2VOL> haha gonzo__
[15:24] <Dan-K2VOL> Darkside, at least you don't have a broadband-over-powerlines, your internet would make your 40m go out
[15:24] <Darkside> hehe
[15:25] <gonzo__> have a lot of that near me. swaths of 80khz wide muck at 30db above noise
[15:28] <Dan-K2VOL> that's terrible gonzo__ I don't see how the regulatory agencies allowed that
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[15:30] <gonzo__> because the have almost no technical people these days. they only employ lawers and clerical staff
[15:32] <gonzo__> BT fit them as part of their TV installations. You complain yo can get the removed. But private people using 'home plug' PLT kit, you can do nowt about
[15:39] <Laurenceb> whats the difference between raspberry pi and fusion power?
[15:39] <Laurenceb> fusion power is always going to be ready in a few decades, raspberry pi in a few weeks
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[15:43] <fsphil> yea but some people actually have a raspberry pi board :)
[15:43] <fsphil> even if they did pay stupid money for them
[15:44] <Darkside> i just got a beaglebone instead
[15:44] <Laurenceb> hehe
[15:44] <Darkside> they were out when they were meant to be
[15:44] <Darkside> then again, it was TI manufacturing them
[15:44] <Darkside> they have a bit more experience
[15:44] <Laurenceb> also comes with documentation
[15:45] <Darkside> yup
[15:45] <Laurenceb> looks like you could reverse engineer most of the broadcom functionality
[15:45] <Laurenceb> but youd be stuck if you ran into any issues
[15:46] <Laurenceb> i see pretty much everything documented in their github
[15:46] <Laurenceb> external interrupts, usart, spi, gpio, dma all seems to be there
[15:47] <Darkside> is this the raspberry pis?
[15:47] <Laurenceb> yes
[15:47] <Darkside> ah
[15:47] <Darkside> i'm still a bit concerned about the closed SoC
[15:47] <Laurenceb> oh github
[15:48] <Laurenceb> yeah thats what im saying
[15:48] <Laurenceb> theres zero documentation
[15:48] <Laurenceb> only the source and comments
[15:48] <Laurenceb> and a few register maps
[15:48] <gonzo__> if it's well written, should eb self documenting
[15:49] <Laurenceb> until you hit some hardware weirdness
[15:49] <Laurenceb> of course, broadcom probably make better peripherals than ST
[15:49] <eroomde> daveake: sorry got called away just then
[15:49] <eroomde> natrium42: pattern recognition and machine learning, by bishop
[15:49] <Laurenceb> you could just run linux on maple native
[15:49] <Laurenceb> ... maybe
[15:50] <Laurenceb> ill stick with my df3120
[15:54] <cuddykid> back from maplin with a lot on "miniature" coax :)
[15:54] <cuddykid> *"minature"
[15:54] <daveake> miniature
[15:54] <cuddykid> yeah whatever :P
[15:55] <cuddykid> lol
[15:55] <daveake> :)
[15:55] <Laurenceb> munutur
[15:55] <daveake> tiny
[15:56] <cuddykid> very tiny :)
[15:56] <cuddykid> and a 25m reel of very thin very flexible wire for cutdown
[15:56] <cuddykid> bbl
[16:04] <gonzo__> you found some ptfe coax cuddykid?
[16:15] <cuddykid> gonzo_:yup I think so, it's very small and bendy
[16:15] <cuddykid> *thin
[16:16] <cuddykid> saved the day :D
[16:16] <number10> lastminutemods.com
[16:16] <cuddykid> still yet to complete payload& daveake looks at the clock...
[16:16] <cuddykid> yup
[16:16] <daveake> :)
[16:16] <cuddykid> cracking out the multimeter to check my very dodge connections :P
[16:16] <cuddykid> bbl
[16:30] <cuddykid> ntx2 antenna solder up - well, sort of& botchy solder.. ya know :P
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[16:38] <cuddykid> cutdown range is going to be > 115km from launch
[16:38] <cuddykid> that should prevent london landing
[16:39] <cuddykid> it will not fire in the first 60mins of flight
[16:40] <cuddykid> uploading final flight software now :D
[16:41] <SpeedEvil> Launch tomororw?
[16:41] <cuddykid> yup
[16:41] <SpeedEvil> :)
[16:43] <cuddykid> cutdown will fire (heat up) for 40secs - should be enough
[16:46] <daveake> cuddykid new wind data ready now, so check your prediction. No change in mine.
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[16:47] <Lunar_LanderU> hello again
[16:47] <Lunar_LanderU> daveake, cuddykid still go for flight?
[16:47] <daveake> Latest prediction same as previous one
[16:47] <Lunar_LanderU> yes
[16:47] <Lunar_LanderU> that is good?
[16:47] <daveake> yes, that's good :)
[16:49] <Lunar_LanderU> :) yay
[16:50] <Lunar_LanderU> OK, time to go home :)
[16:50] <Lunar_LanderU> cu later maybe
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[17:04] <cuddykid_> just had a power cut! Power back on now though - panicking for a mo - no power = no soldering = no HABE2!!
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[17:05] Nick change: cuddykid_ -> cuddykid
[17:05] <cuddykid> no change here - all good to go
[17:05] <cuddykid> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=b2d10c163abfad53fd29a048199a620354275ca0
[17:05] <cuddykid> Lunar_LanderU: yep
[17:05] <cuddykid> daveake: are you on for launch atm?
[17:06] <cuddykid> gremlins in the power supply
[17:06] <number10> if it goes to 35000 you may be visiting Luton airport
[17:11] <daveake> cuddykid Yeah no change
[17:14] <chris_99> ooh is there a launch tommorow?
[17:15] <daveake> 2, hopefully
[17:16] <daveake> Both announced in the mailing list :)
[17:16] <chris_99> cool, i'll check that now
[17:16] <cuddykid> on all frequencies :P
[17:16] <cuddykid> daveake: what alt are you aiming for?
[17:17] <cuddykid> / ascent rate
[17:17] <daveake> 30.5km / 5.5
[17:17] <cuddykid> about the same here
[17:17] <cuddykid> same alt - ~5ms ascent
[17:17] <daveake> Depends on tomorrow morning's predictions of course
[17:19] <daveake> Anyone know what the drift is on the NTX2 per degree?
[17:19] <daveake> I tested the rfm22b in the freezer earlier and got 3.4kHz drift over a 40 degree C range
[17:20] <Laurenceb> not bad
[17:21] <daveake> That was from 40 down to zero. The payload generates enough heat when using 4 AAs to keep the insides 20deg warmer than outside
[17:21] <daveake> Be interesting to see how it goes tomorrow
[17:22] <number10> pop down to cotswold outdoor and get a handwarmer to bung in
[17:22] <daveake> An extra AAA is lighter and smaller :)
[17:23] <daveake> Whole thing weighs 60g - handwarmer is about that I guess !
[17:23] <number10> jake used something, when he was attached to Upu s Ava
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[17:23] <daveake> Basically same setup as Buzz2. It'll be fine.
[17:24] <number10> not sure what energy is in them
[17:25] <number10> all I remember was jake saying on TV add some handwarmers ... must have had a bit of sponsership
[17:25] <daveake> :)
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[17:33] <number10> shame you're not sending one my way daveake as I wanted to test Mrs10s chase car driving
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[17:43] <daveake> :)
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[17:49] <jcoxon> so whats the latest regarding flights tomorrow
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[17:58] <daveake> Both on at the mo
[17:59] <daveake> I've moved mine to 1pm to prevent a salt water interface situation
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[18:15] <cuddykid> I am delighted to say that the botch job that is HABE2 is now ready for testing - finally!
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[18:15] <cuddykid> just in the nick of time :P
[18:15] <cuddykid> until a bug is now found.........
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[18:15] <cuddykid> check the tracker - if it appears all is good :D
[18:15] <cuddykid> 5mins
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[18:19] <Lunar_Lander> hello again
[18:22] <Lunar_Lander> snowing here
[18:22] <Lunar_Lander> what's the status in the UK?
[18:26] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, cuddykid?
[18:29] <cuddykid> hiya
[18:29] <cuddykid> just completed payload - testing now
[18:30] <cuddykid> it's an absolute nightmare to set everything up...
[18:30] <daveake> I'm sticking myself to myself with gaffer tape
[18:30] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[18:30] <Upu> pictures cuddykid :)
[18:31] <cuddykid> one sec - potential major problem..
[18:33] <cuddykid> no rtty :/
[18:33] <cuddykid> ****
[18:34] <daveake> oh, the drama .... :)
[18:36] <cuddykid> rtty!
[18:36] <cuddykid> why the hell wasn't there rtty earlier?!
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[18:40] <cuddykid> nothing - this launch is looking less likely
[18:42] <daveake> No signal or no data?
[18:42] <cuddykid> only 1 rtty string - then nothing
[18:43] <daveake> Yes but is the "nothing" no carrier at all, or no data
[18:43] <cuddykid> no rtty - still one constant sound
[18:43] <cuddykid> I'm getting signa;
[18:43] <daveake> ok, so if you restart do you get one rtty then nothing, repeatably?
[18:44] <cuddykid> yep
[18:44] <daveake> Sounds like a bug or nearly-flat batteries
[18:45] <cuddykid> running off comp now
[18:47] <daveake> Disaster here too .....
[18:47] <daveake> .. my Buzz Lightyear stickers keep falling off.
[18:47] <number10> oh no
[18:47] <daveake> gotcha :)
[18:47] <number10> run out of pink paint?
[18:47] <daveake> No, plenty more where that came from :)
[18:48] <daveake> Buzz doesn't want to stick to a curved surface
[18:48] <number10> I think you have the HAB budget under controll
[18:48] <cuddykid> right - appears to be resolved - the SD card wasn't present causing it to stop after it's first attempt to log for some reason
[18:48] <daveake> Sounds fair
[18:48] <daveake> Back to "On" then :)
[18:48] <cuddykid> just
[18:49] <cuddykid> though the rtty doesn't sound that clean
[18:49] <number10> oh that sounds like some bad error handling in s/w
[18:50] <cuddykid> now my fldigi is screwing up
[18:50] <cuddykid> there's just one constant line - whether audio plugged in or not!
[18:50] <cuddykid> 1 perfect line
[18:50] <nigelvh> I had a similar issue with an I2C temp chip. A bit of humidity got between the I2C pins, and the code freaked out when it couldn't get the right data.
[18:51] <cuddykid> ahhhhh - why has my fldigi stopped working?!?
[18:53] <cuddykid> anyone?
[18:53] <Dan-K2VOL> oh cuddykid, perhaps it's just lazy
[18:53] <cuddykid> lol
[18:53] <Dan-K2VOL> :-P
[18:53] <cuddykid> just 1 perfect line on the waterfall
[18:53] <cuddykid> and "raid" is green by default
[18:54] <nigelvh> I generally use MixW, which can be pissy about what section of the program you've selected. I've got less experience with FLdigi
[18:54] <cuddykid> restart
[18:54] <Dan-K2VOL> cuddykid sorry I can't help
[18:54] <Dan-K2VOL> haven't used it in a while
[18:55] <nigelvh> IT Guy Help Phrases: Is it plugged in? Have your restarted? Power cycle your modem. Have you restarted again?
[18:55] <daveake> If there's one perfect line on the waterfall then there's no rtty.
[18:56] <Dan-K2VOL> or it's really out of tune
[18:56] <daveake> If there's on imperfect line then the other one is off the waterfall
[18:56] <cuddykid> no there is rtty - coming through on the radio
[18:56] <cuddykid> there is 1 line - even if the cable unplugged
[18:56] <cuddykid> glitch
[18:56] <Dan-K2VOL> check your sound input control panel settings?
[18:56] <daveake> If you can hear it there are 2 lines then. Try retuning to get them within the range dl-fldigi works with
[18:56] <Lunar_Lander> tried to restart dlfldigi?
[18:57] <cuddykid> yep - redownloaded it
[18:57] <Dan-K2VOL> throw out the prefs?
[18:57] <cuddykid> daveake: fldigi is just giving the same line no matter what - radio switched off etc
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[18:57] <daveake> Yes, got that
[18:57] <cuddykid> anyone know where the prefs are located
[18:57] <cuddykid> ?
[18:58] <daveake> Go find the dl-fldigi folder. There's a "config "folder or simlar
[18:58] <cuddykid> it's my sound card - **** !
[18:58] <daveake> possibly
[18:58] <daveake> Use another audio program - recorder or something
[18:58] <cuddykid> in system prefs it's just 1 constant sound level - which is not right
[18:59] <cuddykid> yeah, it's messing up - restart time - bb
[18:59] <cuddykid> brb
[18:59] <Lunar_Lander> OHH http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7261831.stm
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[19:04] <cuddykid> restart did it - back online
[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> yay
[19:05] <nigelvh> IT goto phrases win again!
[19:05] <cuddykid> sound card issue - I wonder if that was what was causing the garbage a few days ago...?
[19:05] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[19:05] <Lunar_Lander> what is that Fifth Gear show about?
[19:05] <Lunar_Lander> I once heard about it when researching Top Gear
[19:06] <SpeedEvil> It's basically the same program.
[19:06] <SpeedEvil> With slightly different emphasis.
[19:06] <SpeedEvil> Maybe less silly stuff.
[19:06] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:07] <Lunar_Lander> like real car tests?
[19:07] <SpeedEvil> yes
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[19:10] <cuddykid> outside testing about to commence
[19:10] <cuddykid> take 2
[19:11] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:12] <cuddykid> it's outside now - should be a min before lock
[19:13] <cuddykid> got lock :D
[19:14] <number10> give us a reading from the temperature sensor in a couple of mins cuddykid
[19:14] <cuddykid> it's on the tracker :)
[19:14] <cuddykid> -0.5c atm, but dropping
[19:15] <number10> oh --0.7000000000000001 °C on the tracker
[19:15] <cuddykid> yeah, they're having some issues with floats
[19:15] <cuddykid> -1.5C now
[19:16] <Lunar_Lander> ROFL the tracks of BUZZ and CLOUD
[19:17] <cuddykid> -2
[19:17] <daveake> Er, yeah ... that can get deleted if anyone who can is here
[19:18] <Lunar_Lander> NO, it's modern art!
[19:18] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[19:20] <nigelvh> Can I get a link to the tracker? I'm new round here.
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[19:20] <nigelvh> Thanks. Yeah, those paths are a little "busy"
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:36] <cuddykid> just quickly created a connector to connect ground station antenna to yagi :)
[19:40] <Upu> Going to clear tracker down unless anyone objects
[19:40] <Upu> evening nigelvh
[19:40] <daveake> Fine by me
[19:41] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:41] <Lunar_Lander> did the screenshot already
[19:41] <Lunar_Lander> XD
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[19:41] <cuddykid> Upu: mine's still out - I'll take it in then now, I'll be 10mins
[19:41] <cuddykid> YAY! Ground station yagi works - range boosted :D
[19:42] <Upu> I can leave yours on there cuddykid if you're still testing
[19:42] <cuddykid> I just have to make sure I don't press "cutdown" by accident
[19:42] <cuddykid> Upu: yeah, if possible, thanks :)
[19:42] <Hiena> Ohohoho...Who i ready to the THING?
[19:43] <Lunar_Lander> listening to One Direction or G4?
[19:43] <cuddykid> time to pack the car
[19:43] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[19:55] <WillDuckworth> hey cuddykid - how's it looking?
[19:56] <cuddykid> HI Will :)
[19:56] <cuddykid> well...
[19:56] <cuddykid> about 1hr ago, it was looking like it was off - no rtty
[19:57] <cuddykid> however, it was diagnosed to an SD card bug -no SD card there
[19:57] <WillDuckworth> keep going....
[19:57] <cuddykid> then, there was a problem with the sound card on my comp - got "stuck", a reboot fixed that
[19:57] <cuddykid> so now lol - it's all working, just :P
[19:57] <WillDuckworth> good stuff :)
[19:58] <cuddykid> I've just built a connector to connect the yagi to my ground station - that works well
[19:58] <cuddykid> according to the payload it is now -4.3 C
[19:58] <cuddykid> packing the car atm :)
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[20:04] <number10> its all edge of the seat stuff
[20:05] <gonzo__> well it's chuffing cold out
[20:05] <gonzo__> Just been working outside for the last few hours
[20:05] <cuddykid> -4.2C
[20:05] <cuddykid> here
[20:08] cuddykid_ (~acudworth@host-78-145-207-159.as13285.net) joined #highaltitude.
[20:08] <daveake> Mrs Dave said "It's like a chocolate orange!" :-) http://imgur.com/0Z9Yd
[20:09] <cuddykid_> the power keeps going here
[20:09] <cuddykid_> fading off then on then off etc
[20:09] <cuddykid_> annoying
[20:09] <cuddykid_> nice daveake :)
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[20:09] Nick change: cuddykid_ -> cuddykid
[20:10] <daveake> That's definitely the neatest payload I've done
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[20:13] <nigelvh> Evening Upu, I was away at lunch.
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> daveake: cool
[20:16] <Upu> no problems :)
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[20:18] <nigelvh> I ended up ordering the HX1s so we'll see how they work when they get here. I also ordered a couple of the SRB MX145s to play with a bit as well. (Though they're more expensive, so I'm less inclined to lose them on a payload.)
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[20:19] <Upu> did Phil and Mark help out then ?
[20:21] <nigelvh> Yeah, I chatted a bit with each of them, and they each confirmed what I thought it might be.
[20:21] <nigelvh> Should be pretty easy
[20:21] <Upu> good
[20:22] <Upu> Radiometrix tend to throw people with balloon queries our way
[20:22] <Upu> They are quite nice though gave us 20 or so free NTX2's for our conference last year
[20:23] <nigelvh> Yeah, I did mention it was for a balloon in my original inquiry, But I wonder what they would have said if I had left out the bit about the balloons and only said the APRS info.
[20:23] <Upu> they don't want to deal with hobbyists
[20:23] <Upu> fair enough I guess
[20:23] <Upu> also we aren't really using the modules as Radiometrix intended
[20:23] <nigelvh> Makes sense. At least they're willing to sell in small quantities.
[20:24] <Upu> yeah that helps, silly price from Farnell
[20:24] <nigelvh> I might think they'd be more inclined though, considering they advertise them as usable in the HAM bands.
[20:25] <Upu> Anyway I've lost track who's still launching tomorrow ?
[20:25] <Upu> cuddykid, anyone else ?
[20:25] <nigelvh> Maybe daveake? I haven't been paying too close attention.
[20:26] <Upu> no me neither
[20:26] <Upu> weather is a little sketchy at the moment
[20:26] <nigelvh> It's actually been about the most clear weather we've had in a while today over here.
[20:26] <Upu> and its meant to snow tomorrow
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[20:36] <cuddykid> Upu: daveake is probably launching
[20:37] <cuddykid> I'm aiming for before 11am launch if poss
[20:37] <cuddykid> if the damn payload decides to work!
[20:38] <cuddykid> btw - fldigi modifiers/coders - there may be some sort of bug - it keeps freezing after about an hr being open (mac lion)
[20:38] <cuddykid> I have to force quite then open again
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[20:39] <cuddykid> also - IMPORTANT! - Those tracking tomorrow - selecting "HABE2" in fldigi will give a ridiculously small shift - this needs to be modified manually to 600hz :)
[20:39] <nigelvh> BTW cuddykid, since you're on Lion, what client do you use for IRC?
[20:39] <cuddykid> nigelvh: colloquy
[20:39] <nigelvh> K, I'll look it up when I get home to my mac. Here at work I'm pretty well stuck with the web interface.
[20:41] <cuddykid> I've never used the web interface
[20:42] <griffonbot> Received email: Adam Cudworth "[UKHAS] Re: HABE2 Flight Announcement"
[20:42] <cuddykid> Plan tomorrow is to assemble payload here then walk it down to launch site ~100m
[20:42] <cuddykid> payload is still running off last flights battery pack - incredible. It's been going about 48hrs all together (if not more)
[20:43] <nigelvh> Convenient. We drive about 100miles to our launch site.
[20:43] <cuddykid> Upu: is it possible to get the bot (whichever one it is) to track the hashtag "HABE2" for tomorrow? The easiest way for me to keep everyone updated is via twitter
[20:43] <cuddykid> nigelvh: that's far!
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[20:44] <nigelvh> Yeah, we're not inclined towards launching in the middle of seattle, so we drive east out to moses lake.
[20:46] <cuddykid> awesome :D
[20:46] <cuddykid> -4.6C out there now
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[20:47] <Lunar_Lander> http://wetter.physik.uni-osnabrueck.de/
[20:47] <Lunar_Lander> -6.7°C but -10.09°C windchill
[20:49] <cuddykid> looks like the camera worked to perfection earlier
[20:50] <cuddykid> prediction looks good
[20:52] <cuddykid> whatever happens the cutdown *should* activate when it's > 115km from launch site (provided power on time > 60mins)
[20:53] <nigelvh> So, just make sure the wind is moving really fast, and we're all set!
[20:53] <MLow> hx1 coming in today, as is argent data's gps
[20:53] <MLow> wish i got the argent data transmitter :(
[20:53] <MLow> does lemos international do refunds?
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[20:54] <nigelvh> MLow: Which transmitter from argent?
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[20:56] <MLow> the 144-148mhz one
[20:56] <nigelvh> Also, my last estimate from lemos says that orders are non-cancellable and non-returnable. So I'd guess no.
[20:56] <MLow> so i can be frequency agile
[20:57] <nigelvh> Is that the MX146, or the 5watt larger one?
[20:57] <MLow> turns out 144.390 is VERY busy in my area
[20:57] <MLow> mx146 i guess, only 500mw one
[20:57] <nigelvh> Yeah, Argent is out of those. I tried to buy some. However, it appears that rpc-electronics has the MX145 which i gather is a drop in replacement for the 146.
[20:58] <MLow> i already bought the hx for 53$
[20:58] <nigelvh> I assume that includes shipping?
[20:59] <MLow> yeah
[20:59] <MLow> 15$ for shipping >:(
[21:00] <nigelvh> Yeah, I thought so. I also asked them about doing standard USPS which in my experience is always faster and much cheaper, but they wouldn't
[21:00] <MLow> it seems more and more like i made a mistake
[21:00] <MLow> never. again. lemos.
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[21:00] <eroomde> daveake_: what's tlatest?
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[21:01] <nigelvh> 144.39 is pretty busy here in seattle, and I just ordered some of the HX1s as well, so we'll see how it does. However the launch site is much more rural and isn't quite as loaded on the packet frequencies.
[21:04] <cuddykid> eroomde: are you able to alter what one of the bots follows (twitter hashtags) ?
[21:04] <daveake_> eroomde - Unchangedfrom earlier, so planning on a 1pm launch
[21:04] <eroomde> cuddykid: not me i'm afraid
[21:04] <cuddykid> payload testing complete - I'm happyish - all good to launch
[21:04] <eroomde> griffonbot would be Randomskk or DanielRichman
[21:04] <cuddykid> eroomde: okay no worries :)
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[21:05] <eroomde> daveake_: ok cool
[21:05] <eroomde> what time should we arrive?
[21:05] <MLow> nigelvh: i'll let you know how it goes getting my hx1 today
[21:05] <cuddykid> I'm aiming for early launch here - will be heading down your way then daveake_ / eroomde!
[21:05] <eroomde> cuddykid: what's your latest pred?
[21:05] <cuddykid> unchanged
[21:05] <daveake_> We'll go down to the launch site at noon, and we'll be serving bacon butties before :)
[21:06] <cuddykid> around tring landing
[21:06] <cuddykid> north west of hemel hempsted
[21:06] <nigelvh> MLow: certainly do. The power may be low and the frequency busy, but you're bound to get some in as the timing matches.
[21:06] <daveake_> So 11:30 say, but if you want to turn up earlier that's fine.
[21:06] <cuddykid> daveake_: now that's how to do a launch :P
[21:06] <daveake_> I like to treat my helpers/guests properly :)
[21:06] <cuddykid> the backup tracker is on charge - I will be relying on that tomorrow :)
[21:06] <eroomde> daveake_: ok. so about 11.30?
[21:07] <daveake_> Maybe a BBQ launch in the summer.
[21:07] <eroomde> fo butties?
[21:07] <daveake_> Sure
[21:07] <eroomde> ok cool
[21:07] <cuddykid> daveake_: here they just get to shiver in the field lol
[21:07] <MLow> nigelvh: im going to try for every 61 seconds
[21:07] <MLow> probably later today
[21:08] <cuddykid> If either Randomskk or DanielRichman get this - please could you alter the griffonbot to follow twitter hashtag #HABE2 for tomorrow? Thanks :D
[21:08] <nigelvh> Seems like a reasonable time frame.
[21:08] <eroomde> cuddykid: you can use #UKHAS too
[21:08] <cuddykid> this uplink should be interesting
[21:08] <cuddykid> eroomde: that doesn't work either atm
[21:08] <cuddykid> nor does #ARHAB
[21:08] <eroomde> oh?
[21:08] <eroomde> odd
[21:08] <cuddykid> yup
[21:08] <MLow> nigelvh: i may contact some of the local digipeater operators and see if they mind
[21:09] <eroomde> must be borked
[21:09] <nigelvh> MLow: I've been testing my setup in the car with 500mw on my handheld, and get a decent number of points through here in seattle.
[21:09] <cuddykid> right - I'm off to watch tv
[21:09] <daveake_> Try not to break it :)
[21:09] <cuddykid> lol
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[21:10] <MLow> whats your rate?
[21:10] <nigelvh> It's somewhere around 60 seconds.
[21:10] <nigelvh> I haven't timed it specifically, but probably a little longer than 60
[21:13] <Upu> cuddykid
[21:13] <Upu> there is a twitter enable option but no idea how to use it
[21:13] <Upu> whats your twitter name ? AdamCudworth ?
[21:16] <Upu> cuddykid about ?
[21:17] <cuddykid> Upu: yeah, @adamcudworth :)
[21:17] <Upu> whats payload name, frequency and approx time of launch ?
[21:17] <Upu> and where from ?
[21:17] <Upu> I could check your mail but I'm lazy
[21:18] <cuddykid> HABE2, 434.075, launch 10:30am
[21:18] <cuddykid> probably will be more 11am
[21:18] <cuddykid> from Ombersley, Worcester
[21:18] <cuddykid> :)
[21:20] <cuddykid> payload weighs in around 900g
[21:21] <Upu> Grr silly PHP
[21:21] <Upu> I'll fix tracker nothing to see here
[21:22] <cuddykid> just to check - neck lift = weight of water bottles under balloon (or equiv)?
[21:24] <jonsowman> minus weight of filler
[21:24] <MLow> are high altitude gliders legal in US? i thought the fcc memo says 400ft max
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[21:25] <nigelvh> I believe that's correct. RC aircraft are supposed to be under 400ft.
[21:25] <MLow> nigelvh: i tried my trackuino with a handheld and it goes to transmit and pull ptt and the radio comes on but no data and it stays stuck on...
[21:25] <eroomde> MLow: most of us are uk based so dont know
[21:26] <eroomde> but W0OTM is in the us and has been doing some glider stuff
[21:26] <eroomde> so he is the person to ask
[21:26] <nigelvh> As for the trackuino and a handheld, I've had that issue using the rubber duck antenna. RFI and all that. Using an external antenna or a dummy load works fine.
[21:26] <MLow> there is mention of UAV's and needing a license
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[21:26] <Upu> ok cuddykid tracker is set for you
[21:26] <MLow> hm
[21:27] <Upu> ping daveake_
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[21:27] <MLow> how would i fix that on my end
[21:27] <daveake_> pongy Upu
[21:27] <nigelvh> The RFI?
[21:27] <Upu> Darkside what does the Twitter thing do on the tracker ? Its got your details in but set to false
[21:27] <MLow> yeah i wouldn't know how to fix that in a balloon
[21:27] <Upu> hey daveake_ you launching tomorrow if so time/freq/location/name :)
[21:28] <MLow> the payload is pretty small box cant really put too much distance between
[21:28] <nigelvh> Well, are you flying with the handheld and a rubber duck, or are you flying with one of the HX1s?
[21:28] <MLow> i dont know yet
[21:28] <daveake_> 13:00 434.650MHz Brightwalton CLOUD
[21:28] <MLow> building my trackuino still
[21:29] <daveake_> and 434.200MHz BUZZ
[21:29] <MLow> i assume the hx1 is low power enough to not run into that issue?
[21:29] <Upu> cool
[21:30] <nigelvh> That's going to make the biggest difference. It's impossible to say what will or wont work with that RFI stuff without actually trying it. My guess at least in my situation, was that the rubber duck was causing RF to be on the casing of the handheld, which connected to the ground line of the connecting cable, and upset the AVR.
[21:30] <nigelvh> You could try putting a choke on it, or perhaps an audio isolation transformer.
[21:30] <MLow> dont have either...
[21:30] <nigelvh> Easy to pick up at radio shack.
[21:31] <MLow> choke?
[21:31] <nigelvh> Yeah, a ferrite.
[21:31] <MLow> http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103978?
[21:31] <MLow> minus the ?
[21:32] <nigelvh> More something like this: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103222
[21:32] <nigelvh> Wtrap the cable through it a few times
[21:32] <Upu> right there you go http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[21:33] <daveake_> cool :)
[21:33] <cuddykid> thanks Upu
[21:33] <Upu> cuddykid not sure what this twitter thing does
[21:33] <cuddykid> no probs
[21:33] <daveake_> Did you see earlier that I did a temp shift test on the rfm22b. Shifted by 3.4kHz between 0 and 40 C
[21:33] <Upu> so don't want to turn it on in case it break anything
[21:33] <Upu> I've asked
[21:34] <Upu> breaks
[21:34] <cuddykid> Upu: is it possible to clear my tracks now on the tracker?
[21:34] <Upu> sure
[21:34] <cuddykid> cheers :)
[21:34] <Upu> done
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[21:35] <MLow> nigelvh: loop the cord that runs to the HT? or any specific lead?
[21:35] <nigelvh> Yeah, That's my guess as to where the problems are being coupled into the trackuino.
[21:36] <MLow> radio shack is like 2 mins away i can try i guess
[21:36] <MLow> hm
[21:36] <MLow> seems familiar, i think i might have several dead devices with those around here
[21:36] <cuddykid> the stage is set for a spectacular fail lol
[21:36] <MLow> could i salvage from one of them and save the trip?
[21:36] <nigelvh> Yeah, they're relatively common.
[21:38] <Upu> cuddykid can you give me lat/long of your launch location just the integer is fine, same for you daveake
[21:38] <nigelvh> Something to keep in mind is that rubber duck antennas use the body of the handheld as a counterpoise, whereas other antennas do not. Like I said, as soon as I stop using a rubber duck, my issues go away, so I would try and do a different antenna, even if you end up using the handheld
[21:38] <MLow> i found someting that looks like that
[21:38] <Upu> for the live landing prediction
[21:38] <MLow> on a gutted ps1 controller
[21:39] <MLow> feels like a magnet is in there or something, it's a white piece of plastic that went over the cable
[21:39] <daveake_> 51.510679, -1.389019
[21:40] <Upu> heh there is already a "get_dave.sh" :)
[21:40] <Lunar_Lander> XD!
[21:40] <nigelvh> Yep, ferrites are magnets in potentia. They help to inhibit electromagnetic fields from changing.
[21:40] <daveake_> :)
[21:40] <nigelvh> The more wraps of the cord you can get through it, the better.
[21:40] <MLow> ok i will try
[21:41] <nigelvh> See this photo I took of mine. https://k7nvh.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/IMG_2008.jpg
[21:41] <nigelvh> It's not technically a trackuino, as it's not using the trackuino code, but it's essentially similar hardware.
[21:42] <MLow> thats what im doing too, just building a similar device
[21:42] <Upu> its ok cuddykid got it
[21:46] <MLow> nigelvh: if i tx with the HT anywhere near the arduino it goes nuts
[21:46] <MLow> not connected or anything
[21:47] <nigelvh> Yeah, there's the issues with RFI. Perhaps try putting the arduino in a small box or something wrapped in aluminum foil.
[21:48] <MLow> on low the arduino resets but seems fine after
[21:48] <MLow> but that would lead to an endless loop with it never getting a packet out
[21:48] <MLow> aluminum foil eh?
[21:50] <MLow> hm
[21:50] <nigelvh> Any sort of shielding around the arduino will help
[21:50] <MLow> i held the foil sheet in between the radio and (beardboard)arduino
[21:50] <MLow> lights didnt blink so i guess that's it
[21:51] <nigelvh> I would still recommend going towards a more enclosing option, just cause radio waves are squiggly creatures, but yeah, anything to block it out will work.
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[21:55] <MLow> i thinking a foam insert with foil all over it, to separate the radio and arduino
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[21:56] <nigelvh> It's certainly worth a try. Just test it well.
[21:56] <MLow> http://www.radioshack.com/search/index.jsp?kwCatId=&kw=sma&origkw=sma&sr=1 seems overpriced, but would let me make an antenna
[21:57] <MLow> + the choke
[21:57] <MLow> around the link between the arduino and HT
[21:58] <MLow> is 19$ too much for that? seems high
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[21:58] <nigelvh> All of radio shack's stuff is overpriced. They bank on the convenience of being down the street.
[21:59] <MLow> well to order one it would be same price or more because of shipping
[21:59] <nigelvh> I would estimate a couple dollars for each connector, and a small amount for the coax, so maybe 10 bucks. shipping or whatever is extra.
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[22:04] <MLow> where at?
[22:05] <nigelvh> Wherever. I wasn't referencing anywhere in particular. Connectors are generally 2-3 dollars each, at least in small quantities. 18 inches of (small) coax is next to nothing.
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[22:06] <nigelvh> It should be pretty inexpensive, I'm sure you could find places selling like items for cheaper than radio shack.
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[22:13] <cuddykid> :O it's FREEZING out there! This is going to be fun
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[22:17] <cuddykid> I've uploaded some more photos :)
[22:18] <cuddykid> ^ Upu will be pleased :D
[22:18] <Upu> linky ?
[22:18] <cuddykid> one sec
[22:18] <cuddykid> still uploading and any upload kills the internet here
[22:18] <Upu> you need fibre
[22:18] <cuddykid> I do :D
[22:18] <cuddykid> http://www.flickr.com/photos/acudworth/sets/72157627177202669/
[22:19] <cuddykid> last one is still uploading
[22:19] <Upu> http://www.flickr.com/photos/acudworth/6813808225/in/set-72157627177202669/lightbox/
[22:19] <Upu> I see an Arduino in there :)
[22:20] <cuddykid> yeah
[22:20] <cuddykid> hence my need for a pcb!
[22:20] <cuddykid> very messy
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> "Made out of loo roll tube & nichrome wire! "
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> xD!
[22:20] <Upu> well if it works but I like it :)
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> good engineering
[22:20] <cuddykid> that's not flying now :)
[22:21] <cuddykid> there's another redesigned cutdown
[22:21] <Upu> make this work I'll send you a Ava board which is just an Arduino Pro on a custom PCb
[22:21] <cuddykid> ooo :)
[22:21] <Upu> I'm in the making your own flight computer is a right of passage camp :)
[22:22] <Lunar_Lander> YAY https://secure.flickr.com/photos/acudworth/6756484681/in/set-72157627177202669
[22:22] <Upu> not that this board is perfect
[22:23] <daveake_> Upu The last few show the pink payload for the rfm22b tracker :-) - http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveake/sets/72157629102120711/
[22:24] <Lunar_Lander> why did you solder the capacitor to the barosensor?
[22:25] <daveake_> Oh, at the time the rfm22b was resetting, and I thought it was glitches on the power line. So an electrolytic where there was space, and a ceramic on the rfm22b itself
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:26] <daveake_> The cause was elsewhere but I left those on
[22:26] <Upu> see that daveake_ and I'd like to say I approve :)
[22:26] <daveake_> :)
[22:27] <daveake_> "It's a chocolate orange" - Mrs Dave
[22:27] <Upu> lovely and small I like it
[22:27] <cuddykid> the dust sensor isn't flying as I can't get it to work
[22:27] <Upu> lol yeah
[22:27] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:27] <Lunar_Lander> oh cuddykid
[22:27] <cuddykid> right, cya all tomorrow
[22:27] <Lunar_Lander> what's it doing?
[22:27] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[22:28] <daveake_> 60g total. Well was, but I've added an extra AAA to help generate a bit of heat in the regulator and keep the transmitter warmish
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:28] <daveake_> It maintains 20 degrees above ambient
[22:28] <Upu> cuddykid http://imagebin.org/197169 thats got a cut down on it too (not soldered the capacitor on yet)
[22:29] <Upu> lol just realised why the battery voltage sensors not working, I've not soldered the resistors on :)
[22:29] <daveake_> :D
[22:29] <cuddykid> see you at the top of the morn daveake_ :D
[22:29] <Upu> yeah good luck tomorrow guys
[22:30] <daveake_> top and bottom prolly
[22:30] <Upu> Sadly working but I'll try follow it
[22:30] <daveake_> Cheers Upu
[22:30] <cuddykid> lol
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> cuddykid: may I ask one more question?
[22:30] <cuddykid> yup
[22:30] <Upu> ok dog walk bbs
[22:30] <fsphil> oh yes, launch tomorrow
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[22:30] <cuddykid> Lunar_Lander: fire away
[22:30] <daveake_> lunch first. We have bacon and rolls
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> did you wire the dust sensor up as defined? with the one resistor and the capacitor
[22:30] <Upu> fsphil remote is set feel free to check it :) afk
[22:31] <cuddykid> yup - did it exactly according to the data sheet - but getting nothing but 0 :S
[22:31] <cuddykid> currently liaising with spark fun tech support :)
[22:31] <cuddykid> right - cya all
[22:31] <daveake_> nn
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> gn8 cuddykid
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[22:37] <nigelvh> BTW, won't be launching for a while yet, but I know I was chatting with some of you guys yesterday about my boards, so I snapped a picture this morning. https://k7nvh.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/photo.jpg It's a little larger, but designed to accomodate up to six student payloads.
[22:39] <fsphil> lodsa leds
[22:39] <fsphil> what's the sparkfun module?
[22:40] <nigelvh> Yeah, since I moved to the larger chip to get all the analog inputs, I ended up with lots of unused IO, so I threw a port at status LEDs.
[22:40] <nigelvh> The sparkfun board is just a soic breakout. I haven't put the chip on it yet, but it supports a little flash storage chip.
[22:43] <fsphil> ah
[22:43] <fsphil> do you find soldering soic parts difficult?
[22:44] <nigelvh> Compared to the 100 pin TQFP processor I soldered on there, the soics are easy.
[22:44] <MLow> hx1 is here
[22:44] <MLow> so is the gps and camera
[22:44] <nigelvh> MLow: I'm really fond of the high altitude GPS modules from Argent. They seem to work really nicely.
[22:45] <fsphil> arg, I was in Maplin today and forgot to buy more 5v regs
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> the student payloads get connected to the AN1 and 2?
[22:46] Action: SpeedEvil looks at his rail of 7805s
[22:46] <MLow> nigelvh: thats the one
[22:47] <Upu> damn 8 LED's!
[22:47] Action: Upu goes back to redesign his board
[22:47] <daveake_> 8 pink LEDs?
[22:47] <nigelvh> Yes, I set it up for six payloads, though if there are more student groups, they can share.
[22:47] <nigelvh> Sorry, only green ones.
[22:47] <Upu> Ah ha
[22:47] <fsphil> lol
[22:47] <Upu> in the UK we fly pink
[22:47] <fsphil> think pink
[22:47] <Upu> well I do sorta
[22:48] <Lunar_Lander> but what kind of payloads can fly?
[22:48] <MLow> camera is in a box impossible to open
[22:48] <Lunar_Lander> I see two data lines and one GND per payload
[22:48] <nigelvh> We fly them in pink foam board insulation boxes. If that's worth anything.
[22:48] <MLow> packing tape inch thick!
[22:48] <Upu> it is have a point for that :)
[22:48] <fsphil> 10 hab points for flying anything pink
[22:49] <fsphil> 100 bonus points if it has yellow spots too
[22:49] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:49] <nigelvh> The students can make almost anything they like. We teach them basic circuits at the start of the quarter, and then they're free to decide what they'd like to measure and build it. The telemetry system counts pulses or voltages and relays them down.
[22:49] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:49] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[22:50] <nigelvh> We have geiger counters, or uv light sensors, or humidity, or radio propagation, or whatnot
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[22:50] <nigelvh> Just depends on how ambitious the students are.
[22:50] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:51] <SpeedEvil> To do geiger sensors you also need the other project of a nuclear bomb.
[22:51] <Lunar_Lander> radio propagation is something that wasn't really done before
[22:51] <Lunar_Lander> would be interesting to look into that
[22:51] <Lunar_Lander> well, save for Apex Alpha where Upu got the distance record
[22:51] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[22:51] <Upu> @ 300 baud
[22:51] <nigelvh> I don't believe their payload worked very well, but if I recall, they tuned for an AM station they couldn't hear on the ground, and then measured RSSI during the flight
[22:51] <Upu> OT1SKY got the distance at 50
[22:51] <Upu> OZ1SKY ?
[22:52] <Upu> Apex Alpha ’ OZ1SKY - 775.6 km (22/10/2011)
[22:52] <Upu> Apex Alpha ’ 2E0UPU - 756.5km (22/10/2011)
[22:52] <Upu> thats pretty amazing at 10mW
[22:52] <fsphil> esp. considering the non-directional antennas on both sides
[22:53] <Upu> What was OZ1SKY using ?
[22:53] <fsphil> a yagi I think
[22:53] <Upu> I can't wait till I get a proper antenna up there
[22:53] <Lunar_Lander> RSSI nigelvh?
[22:54] <nigelvh> Recieved signal strength
[22:54] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:55] <nigelvh> The students work in a 50 dollar budget, and most don't have much electronics experience, so if I recall correctly, that team grabbed a walkman and tore into it to do their payload. I think it ended up working intermittently
[22:56] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:58] <MLow> hx1 = $53 shipped
[22:59] <MLow> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12996303/hab%20pics/hx1.jpg
[22:59] <MLow> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12996303/hab%20pics/gps.jpg
[22:59] <Upu> 300mW ! Think of the Children !
[22:59] <nigelvh> Yep, that's the same GPS I've got on the board I linked to above.
[23:00] <MLow> 1.2 jigawatts
[23:00] <MLow> JIGAWATTS
[23:00] <nigelvh> 1.21 to be precise.
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[23:00] <MLow> fud ge
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> wasn't it like
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> jiggowatts?
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[23:00] <MLow> i remember an a
[23:00] <russss> 300mW? You could pick that up from Mars
[23:01] <MLow> :|
[23:01] <MLow> stop makin fun meh
[23:01] <nigelvh> It is quite apparent who the UK friends are in here.
[23:01] <Upu> :)
[23:01] <Upu> well we are only allowed 10mW :)
[23:01] <MLow> were allowed 1.5kW
[23:02] <Upu> lol
[23:02] <nigelvh> THROW A LINEAR ON IT!
[23:02] <Upu> you could pick that up on Mars
[23:02] <MLow> you CAN pick up 10mW on mars....line of sight
[23:02] <MLow> but will it blend
[23:03] <MLow> Stay tuned!
[23:03] <MLow> wtf
[23:03] <MLow> they jammed this thing in the foam and it bent all the pins
[23:03] <nigelvh> That's not very kind of them.
[23:06] <MLow> 4.4g
[23:07] <MLow> gps = 19.8
[23:07] <Upu> 19.8 for the GPS ?
[23:07] <Upu> wow
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[23:07] <MLow> antenna inc
[23:08] <Upu> still quite a bit what chipset is in it ?
[23:08] <MLow> prolific
[23:08] <MLow> includes a rs232 level converter
[23:08] <Upu> ok
[23:08] <MLow> battery for rtc
[23:08] Action: fsphil 's altitude limit sense is tingling
[23:08] <MLow> and metal sheilding
[23:08] <nigelvh> Nope
[23:08] <fsphil> do they work above 18km?
[23:08] <Upu> HA build fsphil
[23:08] <MLow> yes
[23:08] <nigelvh> Custom firmware to allow high altitude
[23:08] <Upu> I think Jame's Pico payload is 19g all in
[23:08] <MLow> its a high altitude firmware gps
[23:09] <fsphil> ah, perfect
[23:09] <Upu> its like the inventek they do a HA build
[23:09] <nigelvh> https://www.argentdata.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_id=144&osCsid=5ngiim8sqgmf8p09gi9i2qi873
[23:10] <Upu> The uBlox based modules like the FSA03 are good to 50km and have built in antennas
[23:10] <Upu> FSA03 is EoL though and nothing comparable atm
[23:10] <nigelvh> In the past I've used a Garmin 15L but they're a little bit more money, and require an external antenna.
[23:11] <nigelvh> Also, perhaps not as sensitive. I can't get a 15L to lock on inside the house, but the little guy I linked locks on right quick.
[23:11] <Upu> http://imagebin.org/197169 <- Thats the uBLOX 6 NEO (there is a smaller one) and a Sarantel antenna
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[23:12] <Upu> pretty small
[23:12] <MLow> u make?
[23:12] <nigelvh> That's something I'll have to consider when I'm redesigning my boards in a year or two.
[23:13] <Upu> yeah
[23:13] <MLow> which pcb fab house?
[23:13] <Upu> Seeed
[23:13] <CovBalloon> Hi, can we use something like this as a soft antenna? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NAGOYA-NA-704-SMA-F-430-440-MHz-Soft-Antenna-KG-UVD1P-PX-777-PX-888-FD-880-/180788164706?pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_SpecialistRadioEquipment_SM&hash=item2a17d07862#ht_3245wt_1037
[23:14] <Upu> CovBalloon sure but you can make one with some old bits of coax or stripped RJ45 solid core cable
[23:14] <Upu> also that looks quite bit
[23:14] <Upu> 420mm
[23:14] <Upu> 1/4 wave is 164mm radials
[23:14] <MLow> im planning on making a pretty basic antenna
[23:14] <MLow> like coat hanger basic
[23:15] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/files/2010-09-03%2019-26-16_0003.jpg
[23:15] <nigelvh> Remember MLow is working at 2m not 70cm, though the principals are the same
[23:15] <MLow> yeah i was going to make one of those
[23:15] <MLow> i have one in the attic works awesome
[23:15] <MLow> for my 50w
[23:15] <Upu> yeah you'll need more wire :)
[23:16] <MLow> right but can i do like a 1/8th wave?
[23:16] <Upu> fly HF and drag a few hundred feet of cable under there :)
[23:16] <MLow> because 19inches is a bit long
[23:16] <MLow> Upu: that has been done by a group near me
[23:16] <Upu> lucky :)
[23:16] <nigelvh> That gets into some less easy antennas, but it can be done.
[23:17] <Upu> we've had good performance out of the 1/4 wave's
[23:17] <MLow> ive never heard of a 1/8th wave antenna lol
[23:17] <Upu> 5/8ths :)
[23:17] <MLow> why 5/8ths i never got that
[23:18] <Upu> no idea I really should learn it
[23:18] <Upu> 5/8 vertical @ 2meters = 4 feet
[23:18] <Upu> So why would anyone use a 5/8 wave antenna if they have to go through all that extra work? After all, a ground plane antenna provides a nicer match. There are a couple of answers. The first is GAIN. The computer shows that the antenna (mounted 1 foot above ground) has a gain of about 1.5 dBd higher than a dipole's gain (also mounted 1 foot above ground.)
[23:18] <Upu> The second reason you may want to use the 5/8 wave vertical is to obtain a lower angle of radiation. A half wave antenna's radiation peak angle is 20 degrees. You'll find that the 5/8 wave antenna's angle of radiation is just 16 degrees making it an even better dx antenna.
[23:18] <Upu> those reasons
[23:18] <russss> ok, dark magic, got it.
[23:18] <Upu> cut n'paste :)
[23:19] <CovBalloon> who won the 817 off ebay this evening?
[23:19] <russss> still doesn't explain *why* though, and until I comprehend that, antennas are just magic.
[23:19] <Upu> not seen anyone say thye'd won it, what did it go for ?
[23:19] <MLow> Upu: that is bad for us, wide angle for balloons is good
[23:19] <CovBalloon> 290
[23:19] <Upu> thats a good price
[23:20] <MLow> gain = directionality
[23:20] <russss> isn't the RRP £315 or something?
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[23:20] <CovBalloon> 2 years old, battery
[23:20] <Upu> russss £550
[23:20] <CovBalloon> no the 817nd is 485
[23:20] <russss> ah crap yes, I'm £100 off
[23:20] <Upu> come down a little
[23:20] <MLow> a dipole is probably my best bet
[23:21] <MLow> but i kind of want to do a ground plane
[23:21] <nigelvh> On 70cm I generally do a coaxial dipole
[23:21] <russss> mine was £386 off ebay, so £290 is indeed a good deal.
[23:21] <MLow> whats your plan for the hx1's?
[23:21] <CovBalloon> has any one used an xbee chip or XRF with the arduino to see what hight you can get reception to?
[23:21] <russss> mine was an ND in original box with a lot of natty accessories though
[23:21] <nigelvh> I have run an xbee, but not on a balloon
[23:22] <Upu> anyway guys I have to be up early so night all
[23:22] <nigelvh> for the HX1 I figure I'll try another coaxial dipole, but we'll see how it tunes up.
[23:22] <nigelvh> Evening Upu!
[23:22] <daveake_> nn
[23:22] <CovBalloon> night
[23:22] <daveake_> enjoy the wok :p
[23:22] <daveake_> work
[23:24] <nigelvh> For the Xbee, I'm not sure if you're planning on using the 900mhz pro version or the 2.4ghz version, but I never had good luck with the 2.4. 900 has worked great. At least for terrestrial applications.
[23:24] <CovBalloon> oops wrong ebay figure it went for £362
[23:24] <CovBalloon> I have the UK made XRF chip that has longer range
[23:25] <CovBalloon> looking to do some testing along side a proven method
[23:25] <nigelvh> Probably a good plan
[23:25] <MLow> no xbee here nigelvh
[23:25] <MLow> just the hx1
[23:25] <nigelvh> MLow: just answering CovBalloon's question.
[23:25] <MLow> ah
[23:25] <MLow> i was curious what your antenna plans where for the hx1
[23:26] <MLow> you mentioned ordering some
[23:26] <nigelvh> Yes, I ordered some HX1s as well as some SRB145s. I think I'll try to do a coaxial dipole, and if that fails, move to a quarter wave ground plane.
[23:27] <nigelvh> The coaxial dipole works great on 70cm, but I recall having some issues tuning the dipole on 2m
[23:27] <MLow> quarter wave at 2m is 19.5inches right?
[23:27] <nigelvh> I don't recall off the top of my head.
[23:27] <MLow> 2m /4
[23:28] <MLow> .5m = 19.65in
[23:28] <fsphil> okie, radio setup for remote operations tomorrow. hopefully be able to track
[23:28] <nigelvh> Somewhere around there. 2m isn't exactly the length you should use, but somewhere in that range.
[23:29] Nick change: jolo2 -> jolaw2
[23:29] <MLow> what do you mean
[23:29] <nigelvh> According to a random dipole calculator I found on the internet, a dipole for 144.39 would be 1ft. 7 - 15/32in. for each leg
[23:29] <nigelvh> So that's a half wave.
[23:29] <nigelvh> 2m is a rounded number to make it easy to say.
[23:30] <MLow> yeah..
[23:30] <MLow> 300 - 144.390
[23:30] <nigelvh> You mean / not -
[23:31] <nigelvh> Which also doesn't take into account the velocity factor of the conductor you're using to make the antenna.
[23:31] <nigelvh> In general, cut a little long, and trim down to tune.
[23:31] <MLow> right
[23:31] <MLow> so yeah i made a half wave then
[23:32] <MLow> my mind works in wonderful ways, at least i used a swr meter to tune lol
[23:33] <MLow> so about 9.72 in
[23:33] <nigelvh> Yes. And it's not something that is expected of every ham to have, but I moved away from using a SWR meter to tune, and now use a VNA which will tell you what's off about the antenna, by exactly how much, and what not else.
[23:34] <MLow> i make a lot of antenna and never really needed anything else
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[23:34] <MLow> end up just clipping once and hitting 1.1
[23:35] <nigelvh> Yeah, the VNA just shows a lot more information which can be helpful in antennas or matching networks or just about anything else.
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[23:35] Nick change: Lily -> Jessica_Lily
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[23:36] <MLow> probably end up getting one for this project, but i like my little vanco
[23:37] <MLow> camera is 214g!!!
[23:38] <nigelvh> Yes, and there's certainly nothing wrong with the method. Some people prefer it. I just know that I couldn't go back after being spoiled.
[23:39] <MLow> payload goal of 500g just went out the window
[23:40] <nigelvh> Yeah, 500g is not a lot.
[23:42] <MLow> batteries
[23:42] <MLow> fudge
[23:42] <nigelvh> Stupid gravity
[23:42] <MLow> Darkside ping
[23:43] <MLow> yeah how dare earth spin so slow
[23:43] <MLow> going to test the gps
[23:43] <MLow> :D
[23:47] <nigelvh> Anyway all, it's time for me to slog home. Have a good one.
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[00:00] --- Sat Feb 4 2012