highaltitude.log.20120202

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[02:30] <MLow> if anyone was wondering how to match an amateur radio callsign with regex, "\b\w{1,2}\d{1}\w{1,3}-?\d?\d?\b"
[02:30] <MLow> i suppose you can remove the {1}
[02:30] <MLow> or use +
[02:31] <MLow> but it also matches with an ssid like kf5kwe-11
[02:53] <Randomskk> there are loads of special cases
[02:54] <Randomskk> but that looks okay?
[02:55] <Darkside> what are you doing awake Randomskk
[02:55] <Randomskk> lab report
[02:55] <Darkside> its almost 3am
[02:55] <Darkside> ah
[02:57] <Randomskk> the later it gets, the snarkier I am getting in this report
[02:57] <Randomskk> it's a silly report.
[02:58] <Darkside> hehe
[02:58] <Randomskk> probably also making more spelling mistakes but it's not like vim tells me about them
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[04:40] <oh7lzb> MLow: Doesn't match DS17GOO or OH2TIMO or 9A5CY or 8J1C or... there are loads of special cases indeed :(
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[05:10] <MLow> those are kind of special calls that dont happen a lot over here in the USA
[05:12] <MLow> seeing as we only have 1 region digit, and need a min of 2 letters after region didgit
[05:30] <Darkside> will it match VK5FDRK?
[05:30] <Darkside> hmm no it won't
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[06:53] <x-f> woo, -24
[06:54] <x-f> good morning, world!
[06:54] <Dan-K2VOL> A very early Buenas Dias x-f
[06:55] <x-f> hi, Dan! all good?
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[07:03] <Dan-K2VOL> oh pretty good x-f!
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[07:33] <SamSilver> daveake: god moaning tooo you
[07:33] <daveake> Too early to be good :p
[07:33] <number10> daveake: has the prediction changed to a wet landing or am I using the wrong parameters
[07:34] <daveake> Customer forgot his password and phone me at home :(
[07:34] <daveake> hold on ...
[07:34] <daveake> grrrrrrrrrrrrrr
[07:35] <number10> also bworse sunday
[07:35] <daveake> damn that's not gonna work
[07:35] <daveake> Well at least it sorts out the radio congestion ....
[07:35] <number10> does not mak sense when compared to bbc weather wind direction!
[07:38] <number10> according to that it should go northwards below the jetstream
[07:38] <daveake> !!
[07:39] <number10> met office sat SE 9 mph
[07:39] <daveake> strange
[07:40] <daveake> We need jonsowman to take a look or somewhere to kick the cache maybe
[07:40] <daveake> someone
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[07:43] <number10> also grib 150 to 160 degrees
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[07:44] <daveake> I've seen strange things before ... like get a prediction for a certain time, then get a very different one for an hour later
[07:45] <daveake> morning jcoxon
[07:46] <jcoxon> morning
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[07:53] <SamSilver> The original Raspberry Pi prototype, circa 2006 > http://images.bit-tech.net/content_images/2012/01/raspberry-pi-modders-dream-machine/atmel1-1280x1024.jpg
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[09:50] <daveake> number10 Looking at one of the predictions the winds very low are southerly, but just above they're from the north or north west, then of course the jet stream goes east
[09:51] <number10> ah, a more suitable for HAB forcasting site
[09:53] <cuddykid> lol Laurenceb_
[09:53] <cuddykid> prediction time
[09:53] <daveake> cough
[09:54] <cuddykid> :(
[09:54] <daveake> linky
[09:54] <cuddykid> haven't run it yet
[09:54] <cuddykid> oh.. :/
[09:54] <cuddykid> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=d4b23cea427554d77a47df49eb3227f3ceefaeda
[09:54] <fsphil> I wonder what price the original prototype would get on ebay :)
[09:54] <cuddykid> if it stayed like that I should be ok - as it's very outskirts
[09:55] <daveake> yeah. mine not good tho
[09:55] <Darkside> cuddykid: whenare you launching?
[09:55] <cuddykid> Darkside: hopefully saturday
[09:55] <Darkside> what time
[09:55] <cuddykid> daveake: link?
[09:55] <cuddykid> Darkside: 11ish am
[09:55] <Darkside> cuddykid: craaaaap
[09:55] <Darkside> right when dave is launching
[09:56] <Darkside> we already don't have enough trackers
[09:56] <cuddykid> yeah, I'm on a different freq though :)
[09:56] <Darkside> thers going to be 3 payloads in teh air
[09:56] <daveake> and I'm in the sea
[09:56] <cuddykid> lol
[09:56] <number10> your landing not far from where daveake lives cuddykid
[09:56] <Darkside> 434.075 for you, 434.2 for daves RFM22B, and 434.650 for daves main payload
[09:56] <cuddykid> yeah
[09:56] <cuddykid> :P
[09:56] <daveake> chain flights
[09:56] <cuddykid> HAB is cluttering the area!
[09:56] <daveake> Darkside if I'm sea-bound I'll not be flying
[09:56] <fsphil> makes a change from yorkshire :)
[09:57] <Darkside> daveake: ahh
[09:57] <daveake> or the sea near yorkshire
[09:57] <fsphil> silly winds
[09:57] <Darkside> what the hel
[09:57] <Darkside> is there like an australian el reg
[09:57] <Darkside> because they sure have a lot of australian articles
[09:57] <daveake> OK, my prediction for saturday assuming photographic payload normal params - http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=3d1deb1fd5f9cdd269ccc9d103c2ffc7d1d8a281
[09:58] <number10> not good - how many weeks is the NOTAM open or valid for?
[09:59] <daveake> Oh, I can get it extended
[09:59] <fsphil> that's pretty awful
[09:59] <daveake> Just this w/e at the mo
[09:59] <fsphil> you're allowed extensions?
[09:59] <daveake> Now if cuddykid launched my little pink on ... http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=cda59a1fb99cdbd77e6081be3e9ea678d0f4e5da
[09:59] <daveake> fsphil If you're name is David he can be helpful ;-)
[09:59] <cuddykid> daveake: not bad :P
[09:59] <fsphil> pah
[09:59] <cuddykid> afternoon looks much much better
[10:00] <daveake> hold on
[10:00] <cuddykid> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=5a822a95b74710736260d89e30484d60c90dc086
[10:00] <fsphil> The name's David, Dave D. David
[10:00] <daveake> dosey beaky ...
[10:01] <UpuWork> cuddykid
[10:01] <cuddykid> Hi UpuWork
[10:01] <UpuWork> that landing is a little too close to Heathrow ?
[10:01] <cuddykid> yeah, afternoon is better :)
[10:01] <cuddykid> (last link)
[10:01] <daveake> blimey that's a *big* difference http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=0f0e4f5abc3b2db7b6b900172ce16d43303e8124
[10:02] <cuddykid> yep!
[10:02] <cuddykid> all very uncertain
[10:02] <daveake> UpuWork who's near Heathrow?
[10:02] <UpuWork> very
[10:02] <daveake> Yes
[10:02] <UpuWork> initial cuddykid prediciton was ~10 miles from heathrow
[10:02] <daveake> AH
[10:02] <daveake> cuddykid how many launches on your notam? ;)
[10:03] <cuddykid> daveake: 1 but I suppose we could do a big launch if you get me ;)
[10:03] <cuddykid> haven't received it yet - if I haven't by this afternoon I'll give him a bell
[10:04] <number10> that second prediction of yours cuddykid not far from me
[10:04] <cuddykid> daveake: tomorrow looks to land by you :) http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=c1e0e0f4d34bfbfb582bf7219621fa9849daab09
[10:04] <cuddykid> number10: great stuff
[10:04] <daveake> no notam for tomorrow
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[10:05] <cuddykid> daveake: I guess I may be able to change it to tomorrow as he hasn't done it yet& always a possibility
[10:05] <daveake> I'll collect if so :)
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[10:05] <cuddykid> yeah :D
[10:06] <cuddykid> firstly - need to build and complete payload! Frantic morning ahead :P
[10:06] Action: daveake looks at 2 completed ready for flight payloads .... ;)
[10:07] <fsphil> ready more than a day early? unheard of!
[10:07] <daveake> And I only started on of them a week ago!
[10:08] <daveake> Yeah, it's a strange feeling being ready so early
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[10:09] <cuddykid> lol
[10:10] <cuddykid> it feels strange this time as habe1 was ready months early!
[10:11] <daveake> Someone (jcoxon?) said that the second launch never goes well, because people always to to cram too much in. I didn't do that to my second launch, but I did land it in the sea, so that could have been better ...
[10:11] <daveake> s/to to/try to/
[10:12] <daveake> Now if we could launch from anywhere, we could have a competition to land as close as possible to number10's house
[10:12] <number10> :) you could pop in for a tea or beer
[10:13] <daveake> :-)
[10:13] <number10> we could talk hab, and Mrs #10 would have a glazed look
[10:14] <daveake> :)
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[10:16] <daveake> From ck's I could just about land the pink ball on rocketboy's head
[10:16] <daveake> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=b6dafd20b30ea6a5bef1a105b7fbe90785907423
[10:17] <eroomde> daveake: do you have a prediction for your flight?
[10:17] <daveake> Yes. http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=3d1deb1fd5f9cdd269ccc9d103c2ffc7d1d8a281
[10:17] <daveake> :(
[10:18] <NickB1> hehe daveake, http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=9012a23cff75618663aa94dd208f4d8d76538526
[10:18] <daveake> Taht's for 10am. This is for 4pm - http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=0f0e4f5abc3b2db7b6b900172ce16d43303e8124
[10:18] <daveake> NickB1 perfect!
[10:20] <number10> may need a river boat
[10:20] <cuddykid> daveake: I've slimmed it down - done away with the stupid sodding keychain cam, and not flying the dust sensor :)
[10:20] <daveake> Yeah keychain cam not worth the effort. Or any effort actually.
[10:20] <cuddykid> very true - it's a pile of..
[10:21] <Darkside> they really arent worth it
[10:21] <Darkside> save up and buy a gopro
[10:21] <fsphil> +1
[10:21] <cuddykid> btw, I saw them going for £20 on IWOOT LOL
[10:21] <fsphil> gopro's are great
[10:21] <number10> best thing for key cam is to tape it to a model rocket
[10:21] <daveake> I'm happy with my £25 Kodak HD camera. It'd just be good to get something a lot smaller but reasonable quality
[10:21] <fsphil> I videoed the drive to work -- it even made that look interesting
[10:21] <eroomde> daveake: 4pm is a direct gatwick overflight
[10:22] <daveake> yeah. I was just pointing out the difference
[10:22] <cuddykid> provided it's 15km + in alt, it would be fine though
[10:22] <daveake> I think "unpredictable" covers it at the mo
[10:22] <fsphil> predictions seem variable -- these could all change by tomorrow
[10:22] <daveake> yep
[10:23] <daveake> I can imagine leaving the decision till Saturday morning
[10:23] <number10> I think if the prediction is variable by the hour on a day of launch its probably not a good idea
[10:23] <daveake> Yep
[10:23] <number10> on the day
[10:23] <daveake> I don't even notice your typos now :)
[10:23] <cuddykid> that's why I want to try and get permission for tomorrow if poss
[10:24] <number10> lol daveake - babel.c is running perfectly
[10:24] <fsphil> Tim got on the telly: http://www.timzaman.nl/?page_id=2081&lang=en
[10:24] <fsphil> though the video only works for people in .nl
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[10:28] Action: daveake awaits fsphil pointing out that the polaroids weren't in "space" ... Lp
[10:29] <fsphil> don't have to :) my job here is done ;)
[10:29] <daveake> LOL
[10:30] <cuddykid> very tempted to try for a launch tomorrow
[10:31] <cuddykid> even more work to be done today!
[10:31] <cuddykid> I'll crack on and see around lunch
[10:31] <cuddykid> bbl
[10:32] <number10> is that dip in temperature (tims data) after burst a result of cold air getting through gaps in the payload due to the initial fast descent
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[10:43] <fsphil> I suspect so
[10:43] <cuddykid> I was wondering why my solar panel readings were 0 - then I realised I wasn't calling my function to process the values lol
[10:45] <gonzo_> You may be short of receiving stations if it's a launch on a school day
[10:46] <eroomde> silverlight!?
[10:46] <eroomde> give me a break
[10:46] <eroomde> gonzo_: i think so yes
[10:46] <daveake> :-) Yeah, I didn't bother further
[10:47] <fsphil> eroomde, yea -- if you click through it has an option for 'media player' -- although it just serves up a file saying you can't view it outside .nl
[10:47] <eroomde> what the temperature sensor is measuring is the temperature of itself
[10:47] <eroomde> so if you suddenly get a much higher mass flow rate of air across it, it'll cool
[10:47] <eroomde> assuming the air is cooler than it is
[10:49] <eroomde> cool idea though
[10:50] <cuddykid> I'm in need of some habhub/spacenear tracker people :P
[10:51] <cuddykid> can someone get on and modify my config file if possible?
[10:51] <daveake> On a related note, if anyone fancies deleting my data for buzz and cloud, that would be spiffing
[10:52] <cuddykid> getting about just over 3v from solar panel when weak sun is shining on them :)
[10:53] <daveake> I mentioned my planned launch on an electronics forum. One of the guys there didn't notice the "Saturday" bit in my post and thought I was about to launch that day. Apparently he spent 20 minutes watching the payload bounce around my garden :D
[10:53] <number10> have you been back to that forum
[10:54] <cuddykid> lol!
[10:54] <daveake> yes
[10:54] <daveake> He said "Does this mean your flight is delayed". I guessed from that he was confused, so I explained :)
[10:55] <number10> did you also tell him that on the day - he may have to wait up to two hours
[10:55] <daveake> At least 2 of the guys there are radio hams and offered to help track
[10:55] <number10> thats good
[10:56] <daveake> My launches go on time*
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[10:56] <daveake> * well the last one did :)
[10:56] <number10> yes, 'was impressed
[10:56] <fsphil> my launches also go on time.. just not the time I announce
[10:56] <daveake> :D
[11:00] <daveake> If the prediction says "wet" still, I might launch the pink ball and see if I can beat my record :)
[11:01] <daveake> Waste of the pink paint mind :D
[11:02] <number10> and an fsa03
[11:02] <daveake> good point
[11:02] <Darkside> bah, FSA03s are overrated
[11:02] <Darkside> :P
[11:03] <gonzo_> I assume that the updating of the launch schedual on the ukhas pages is a bit sparodic
[11:03] <number10> thats what helped you out in the summer Darkside
[11:03] <daveake> gonzo_ Yeah just depends on people remembering to add their launches
[11:04] <Darkside> number10: yeah yeah
[11:04] <Darkside> i wouldn't have needed it if it wasn't for your countries stupid customs system
[11:05] <number10> yes the customs and immigration ;-) are a problem
[11:05] <daveake> beat me to it :D
[11:05] <cuddykid> daveake: going to give your helium supplier a ring :)
[11:05] <gonzo_> daveake: who maintaines that site?
[11:06] <daveake> cuddykid cool
[11:06] <Darkside> gonzo_: it's a wiki
[11:06] <daveake> gonzo_ Dnunno, but you can sign up and edit - e.g. adding your own flights
[11:06] <Darkside> nobody maintains it
[11:06] <fsphil> or everybody
[11:07] <gonzo_> rgr, OK
[11:07] <cuddykid> daveake: I don't suppose you have a normal number for them rather than their 0845 number?
[11:07] <gonzo_> those three prople then: anybody, somebody, nobody
[11:07] <daveake> I just use the 0845 .... why?
[11:08] <cuddykid> just that it costs a fair bit a min
[11:08] <daveake> justamo
[11:08] <cuddykid> haven't called an 0870/0845 for a while :P
[11:11] <daveake> Can't see any other numbers
[11:12] <daveake> Here you go - http://bonzaballoons.co.uk/main/contact
[11:12] <daveake> Use the "intl" number - 0113 2396473
[11:13] <fsphil> that website is not nearly as wacky as the url suggests
[11:13] <daveake> :)
[11:13] <cuddykid> cheers :D
[11:13] <fsphil> needs more exclamation marks
[11:14] <Upu> the leeds
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[11:16] <cuddykid> £64 not bad at all!
[11:16] <cuddykid> and in stock nearish me
[11:17] <daveake> I should be on commission
[11:17] <cuddykid> daveake: yeah! :P
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[11:17] <cuddykid> thing is - do I order? I only want to order if a launch is almost certain
[11:18] <daveake> Well the rental is for 28 days anyway, so if you think it's likely you'll launch during that time then go for it.
[11:19] <daveake> Thye've yet to charge me beyond the 28 days, but then I am a regular customer :)
[11:19] <cuddykid> I've got until 2pm
[11:19] <cuddykid> haha :D
[11:28] <cuddykid> oh no - what a day to run out of solder!!
[11:28] <cuddykid> typical
[11:28] <number10> its like a disaster movie
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[11:30] <daveake> For mine, I think it's Voage To The Bottom Of The Sea
[11:30] <daveake> y
[11:31] <daveake> The HAB From Near Space
[11:32] <daveake> The Chronicles Of Cuddykid
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[11:35] <cuddykid> helium has been ordered :D
[11:35] <cuddykid> number10: tell me about it!
[11:35] <number10> whatever you do... dont consider a hydrogen launch
[11:35] <number10> ;)
[11:35] <daveake_> :)
[11:35] <fsphil> what could possibly go wrong
[11:36] <daveake_> "The Day The Sky Exploded"
[11:36] <daveake_> "Cuddtkid's Inferno"
[11:36] <fsphil> wonder if there are any planets out there with an oxygen and H2 mix atmosphere
[11:37] <daveake_> Bit of a bugger when their inhabitants discover fire
[11:37] <fsphil> I suppose lightning would beat them to it
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[11:37] <daveake_> Spoil my joke, why don't you ...
[11:37] Nick change: daveake_ -> daveake
[11:38] <fsphil> ok, there's no lightning on this planet :p
[11:38] <daveake> lol :)
[11:41] <cuddykid> daveake: haha :P
[11:42] <cuddykid> oh lovely - just had a look on my fldigi and it has moved from nice strings to garbage
[11:44] <NickB1> I noticed it does that sometimes when the frequency is a bit low
[11:45] <daveake> Yeah, on mine if the low freq gets down towards 500Hz it can stop working
[11:45] <cuddykid> looked back and it seems to have self corrected itself before
[11:45] <daveake> The signal gets attenuated
[11:45] <cuddykid> will retune
[11:47] <cuddykid> this is not good!
[11:47] <cuddykid> oh it's back
[11:47] <cuddykid> this is really messing with me (chav speak)
[11:47] <fsphil> how close is your shift?
[11:47] <fsphil> to what fldigi expects
[11:47] <cuddykid> 600hz
[11:48] <cuddykid> closeish
[11:48] <fsphil> the autoconfigure may not understand 600hz, when people are setting up you should warn them they may have to set 600hz manually
[11:48] <fsphil> it may default to 23hz
[11:50] <Darkside> it will
[11:50] <Darkside> which means people will break
[11:50] <Darkside> ack
[11:50] <Darkside> which means decoding will break unless people know what to do
[11:50] <fsphil> 600hz was added by me, but the autoconfigure but wasn't updated
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[11:53] <fsphil> it's fixed in the not-released-yet version, which is no help to anyone :)
[11:54] <cuddykid> ahh that will be it - last time I ran it using the 850 shift
[11:54] <cuddykid> it does snap to some tiny amount initially then I have to change it
[11:54] <fsphil> that's it
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[11:54] <cuddykid> but even when I've changed it - that's when I'm occasionally randomly getting garbage which then corrects itself randomly
[11:55] <cuddykid> do you think it's the shift that's doing that?
[11:55] <daveake> It can take a short while to sync after you change something
[11:55] <cuddykid> as it appears on the waterfall perfect
[11:55] <daveake> after that should be ok
[11:55] <cuddykid> daveake: problem is, this is happening after x number of minutes leaving it
[11:56] <cuddykid> then it will often just decode properly again after another y minutes
[11:56] <cuddykid> all left alone
[11:56] <daveake> shouldn't. both lines still lined up?
[11:56] <cuddykid> yep - all the time
[11:56] <daveake> your tx baud rate shifting?
[11:56] <cuddykid> left it earlier and looked back in the history
[11:56] <cuddykid> nope
[11:56] <fsphil> your timing might be close to the edge of it's range
[11:56] <cuddykid> haven't had a problem yet - on this run
[11:57] <fsphil> I think 50 baud works from about 48-52 baud
[11:57] <cuddykid> fsphil: I ran it on the previous flight and never had a problem though - only developed this problem in the past week or so
[11:57] <cuddykid> right, got to go and do some more work on the payload - bbl
[11:57] <NickB1> cuddykid, did you retune it to a higher freq?
[11:57] <daveake> Yeah it's normally up to 5% error depending on the decoder
[11:57] <NickB1> could be a soundcard problem\
[11:58] <fsphil> when you get a chance cuddykid, make another recording
[11:58] <fsphil> it might be possible to measure the baud rate from it
[12:03] <gonzo_> should eb able to look at the keying edges on a 'scope to check the baud rate etc
[12:20] <cuddykid> NickB1: lower
[12:20] <cuddykid> higher freq would've been off the waterfall
[12:21] <NickB1> oh ok
[12:22] <cuddykid> row - lassen is getting lock indoors - incredible
[12:22] <Darkside> pigs fly
[12:22] <cuddykid> lol
[12:22] <cuddykid> temp sensor 27C indoors - no way! has to be the sun shining :P
[12:23] <cuddykid> lassen - how incredible - it has me down to about 2m
[12:23] <The-Compiler> heh, sun
[12:23] <The-Compiler> it's like -10C outside here
[12:23] <cuddykid> even got my alt :P
[12:24] <cuddykid> I'm going to take it out to do a full test of everything in a bit
[12:24] <cuddykid> just soldered up and hot glued the cutdown module :D
[12:25] <number10> you can record it when it goes wrong we can replay and put a scope on PC soundcard output
[12:25] <cuddykid> will do
[12:26] <cuddykid> hasn't gone wrong yet - fingers crossed
[12:26] <number10> mmm both scopes gone for cal :( but can do when back home
[12:26] <fsphil> can measure the spaces in audacity
[12:30] <cuddykid> harmless notice done :)
[12:30] <cuddykid> still won't stop them shooting it down should it land centre of london lol
[12:31] <gonzo_> they are not that good a shot!
[12:33] <fsphil> well they're installing missiles around the capital soon :)
[12:36] <gonzo_> hmmm, there's probably greater risk of an accident involving them, than the risk from agressive action
[12:37] <fsphil> totally
[12:37] <gonzo_> but it wins someopne some political points and a directorship to the co that makes them
[12:40] <cuddykid> lol
[12:41] <cuddykid> on the HAB reward/goal system - "Kerching - Congratulations on unlocking "You pissed off the army""
[12:41] <cuddykid> or "you made it onto national news for the wrong reason"
[12:41] <fsphil> that's 300 hab points
[12:43] <cuddykid> lol
[12:44] <gonzo_> 300pts and a free orange jump suit
[12:46] <cuddykid> lol
[12:49] <cuddykid> tesco mobile top up
[12:49] <cuddykid> £0.20 balance!
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[12:56] <cuddykid> saturday afternoon prediction has improved slightly
[13:00] <cuddykid> ergh - min top up with tesco is £10 greedy people
[13:11] <fsphil> are there any mobile provides that don't time-out internet credit?
[13:11] <cuddykid> possibly giffgaff - i think they're the best
[13:12] <cuddykid> certainly the cheapest
[13:12] <fsphil> ooh
[13:13] <fsphil> I was on their site before
[13:16] <cuddykid> I should write an app that just continually sends the request location text to my backup tracker
[13:16] <cuddykid> 5000 texts for the month
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[13:22] <cuddykid> done :)
[13:24] <fsphil> giffgaff have time limits on their data-only service
[13:28] <fsphil> though they're cheaper than O2 after the month is up
[13:44] <eroomde> fsphil: what kind of limits?
[13:44] <eroomde> oh sorry
[13:44] <eroomde> with you
[13:44] <eroomde> data-only
[13:44] <fsphil> it expires after a month
[13:44] <griffonbot> Received email: Jon Sowman "[UKHAS] Postponed - CUSF Launch Saturday"
[13:44] <fsphil> then it's really expensive
[13:44] <eroomde> i'm about to switch to them. was going to before christmas but then completely forgot about it
[13:44] <eroomde> i'm switching to them for phone
[13:45] <eroomde> which is very much cheaper than what I have now
[13:45] <fsphil> yea they're really good for that
[13:45] <eroomde> I'll get for £10/mo what currently costs me £35
[13:46] <cuddykid> ping WillDuckworth
[13:46] <eroomde> although in fairness the £35/mo was a contract that paid for the handset, which is now paid off
[13:46] <eroomde> if you buy a handset unlocked and then do giffgaff, they are only much more marginally cheaper overall than my o2 contract
[13:46] <fsphil> I'm pretty much exclusively a data and text user, very few voice calls
[13:48] <cuddykid> daveake: how's the launch preps going?
[13:50] <cuddykid> right - going to do a full test of systems before I package it all up in the payload box :)
[13:51] <cuddykid> this is where I find a monster bug :P
[13:51] <fsphil> spiders! *runs away*
[13:52] <cuddykid> haha
[13:52] <eroomde> cuddykid: def do a full systems test *after* you've put it in the box too
[13:52] <cuddykid> I'm going to fly both solar panels - one with 150ohm load, the other with 200ohm load - the "peak power" is 150ohm
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[13:53] <cuddykid> eroomde: will do :)
[13:53] <eroomde> that's where you'll find your random EMI-induced bugs
[13:53] <fsphil> EMI is a pain
[13:53] <daveake> cuddykid I'm just having trouble arranging the weather
[13:53] <UpuWork> eroomde what are you like with coplanar wave guide design ? :)
[13:55] <fsphil> yay, the motors are back in stock at sfc
[13:57] <daveake> More HAB goodness in the post ... parachute, spare rfm22b, yet another arduino mini pro, and some rg174
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[14:00] <cuddykid> daveake: lucky!
[14:01] <cuddykid> I'm flying 2 1/4 wave antennas - 1 for uplink, 1 for downlink
[14:02] <costyn> daveake: what are ou usig the rg174 for?
[14:02] <daveake> Apparently you can pay 229 to have weather front named after whatever you want - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16852429
[14:02] <daveake> rg174 - nothing yet
[14:03] <daveake> just for connecting to aerials if I need
[14:03] <costyn> speaking of coax, when making a 1/4 antenna for the payload, does it matter what kind of wire I use?
[14:04] <costyn> and when connecint the ntx2 output pins to a bit of coax towards to the 1/4 antenna, do I need to shield that small bit in any way? is there a good and bad way of connecting ntx2 to coax?
[14:05] <cuddykid> costyn: no - I'm using very thin bendy wire - held by drinking straws :P
[14:05] <costyn> this is the bit I'm most nervous about, I want to be reasonably sure that I'll still have a decipherable signal when it's at 30K
[14:05] <costyn> cuddykid: ok :)
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[14:05] <cuddykid> connect ntx2 to 1/4 wave with a nice bit of bodgy solder :D
[14:05] <cuddykid> worked great last time
[14:08] <costyn> ok good to know
[14:08] <cuddykid> signal should be fine at 30km - mine was picked up around 500km away!
[14:10] <costyn> ok well I'll make some pics and let you guys evaluate before I launch
[14:11] <costyn> how do you do a radio signal strenght test before launch? I'd like to avoid the situation (i'm not sure who it was) where the payload signal strenght was very bad because something might've unstuck. was that you daveake ?
[14:11] <eroomde> costyn: we usually don't
[14:11] <eroomde> i mean, you can do hill-to-hill in your local area
[14:12] <eroomde> and you could try and buy a bunch of attenuators and chain them together on your radio to fake the effect of distance
[14:12] <costyn> eroomde: except we don't have any hills here in the Netherlands... tall building to tall building might work
[14:12] <eroomde> but usually you just try and build it well and hope
[14:12] <costyn> eroomde: ah ok
[14:12] <gonzo_> if you rave a receiver that is well shielded, so that it's a weak sig, with the antenna off
[14:12] <gonzo_> you could do a sanity check
[14:12] <eroomde> solder > connectors
[14:13] <eroomde> sure, but it's difficult to know exactly what attenutation antenna vs no antenna gives you
[14:13] <eroomde> hrm or is it
[14:13] <costyn> gonzo_: i have an 817, how far way should i be able to receive the ntx2 line-of-sight without an antenna?
[14:13] <eroomde> it depends if you can get access to the automatic gain control register on your radio
[14:13] <costyn> ehhh. unsure :)
[14:13] <gonzo_> other option could be to build a small diode probe and meter. But you would need to cal it against a working system. And at suck low signals we use, would have tio be sensiticve, so would get falsed by other signals
[14:13] <eroomde> exactly my point
[14:14] <eroomde> unless you can put numbers to it, it's all pretty meaningless
[14:14] <gonzo_> you'd need to have a workinng system, then do a test by walking a fixed distance away with the radio
[14:14] <gonzo_> then test for that same sig when on site
[14:15] <costyn> gonzo_: but I don't know if what I have at home will work when it's up in the air :)
[14:16] <daveake> All I've done is compare something new with something I built before that I know works. So I compared my rfm22 payload with an ntx2 built the same way I did on a previous flight. Set both up then drove away till the signals got weak.
[14:16] <gonzo_> yep you need a working systen to reference against
[14:17] <costyn> right ok, so it's basically do my best with the connections and then hope for the best :)
[14:17] <daveake> Otherwise, so long as the antenna is the right length and it's all soldered up OK then there's not a lot you can easily test
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[14:18] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[14:18] <gonzo_> (and checking the antenna wire is not bent up the side dave?!)
[14:20] <daveake> Yeah, that's good to check :-). Use a straw and glue it on :)
[14:20] <costyn> daveake: ok thx
[14:20] <Lunar_Lander> hi daveake
[14:20] <daveake> 'noon
[14:20] <Lunar_Lander> xD drinking while driving over the arctic ocean
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[14:27] <cuddykid> almost ready to run my full prelaunch check
[14:29] <daveake> How many flights?
[14:29] <daveake> (of stairs) :)
[14:29] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[14:30] <Lunar_Lander> daveake: did you see the TopGear magnetic pole episode?
[14:30] <daveake> Yeah, very good
[14:32] <costyn> Lunar_Lander: yea fun episode
[14:32] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[14:32] <Lunar_Lander> "and James was rubbish with the shotgun"
[14:32] <costyn> last sunday's TG episode was quite good, more old skool TG with loud and expensive cars during the whole episode :)
[14:32] <Lunar_Lander> *looks into the barrel*
[14:32] <Lunar_Lander> WOOO!
[14:33] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[14:34] <cuddykid> permission still hasn't come through :(
[14:34] <daveake> For which day(s )?
[14:35] <daveake> You're not on notaminfo.com yet. I am (for all the good that's gonna be)
[14:36] <gonzo_> james may does go clay shooting, so the looking down the barrel is prob staged
[14:36] <gonzo_> (got to the froxen willy bit yet?)
[14:36] <gonzo_> z
[14:37] <Lunar_Lander> XD of course
[14:37] <Lunar_Lander> that was even before the gun scene
[14:37] <Lunar_Lander> that was so awesome funny
[14:37] <gonzo_> has the new TG sries started then?
[14:38] <Lunar_Lander> here in Germany, TG used to be broadcast on BBC World
[14:38] <Lunar_Lander> now, Kabel 1 showes dubbed episodes
[14:38] <cuddykid> daveake: sat/sun
[14:38] <Lunar_Lander> but
[14:38] <costyn> gonzo_: yep, last sunday
[14:38] <Lunar_Lander> on BBC World I saw the first amphibious challenge
[14:38] <cuddykid> oh jeez - looks like it's going to snow/rain just as I go for full test
[14:38] <Lunar_Lander> and when I looked it up it motivated me that I would like to have a Toyota Hilux as it is indestructible
[14:38] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[14:39] <gonzo_> rgr ta. Have to have a look on the iplayer then
[14:39] <costyn> there's HD torrents available on finalgear.com
[14:39] <SpeedEvil> I just noticed 'Top Gear USA' appearing on my iplayer output dir.
[14:39] <SpeedEvil> Meh.
[14:40] <SpeedEvil> I think I need to add an exception for it.
[14:40] <costyn> SpeedEvil: can be amusing if you're bored
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[14:41] <Lunar_Lander> Top Gear USA is not good?
[14:44] <fsphil> it's pretty dull
[14:44] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[14:45] <fsphil> there's an aussie top gear too
[14:45] <Lunar_Lander> also Top Gear India?
[14:45] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[14:47] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil: one friday, the PhD students in the macromolecular physics group came together to play Team Fortress 2 and then someone mentioned the Marauder
[14:47] <Lunar_Lander> that was an awesome vehicle too
[14:49] <cuddykid> full system test now underway!
[14:49] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[14:49] <number10> looks like CUSF were planning a launch saturday - anyone know much about if
[14:49] <cuddykid> using the battery pack that flew on HABE1 - still going strong :D
[14:49] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil: did you see the Marauder too?
[14:49] <cuddykid> going to collect helium in a bit
[14:50] <eroomde> number10: ?
[14:50] <cuddykid> telemetry being received :D
[14:51] <cuddykid> 2C out there apparently
[14:51] <number10> mail from jonsowman - saying cancelled flight, eroomde
[14:51] <number10> no other details
[14:52] <eroomde> oh
[14:52] <number10> or postponed due to bad weather I should say
[14:52] <eroomde> it was a test flight of some android stuff
[14:53] <cuddykid> oh no - david miller has gone quiet
[14:53] Action: fsphil is shocked
[14:54] <fsphil> oh no wait, the other one
[14:54] <Lunar_Lander> ?
[14:54] <eroomde> we do need to do something about him
[14:54] <cuddykid> lol
[14:54] <cuddykid> indeed
[14:55] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[14:55] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[14:55] <number10> how does the system work at churchill and ears - are launches allwed at any?
[14:55] <Lunar_Lander> who of you knows ZZ Top?
[14:55] <zyp> who doesn't?
[14:55] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[14:55] <number10> zz who?
[14:56] <Lunar_Lander> it's a band
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[14:56] <cuddykid> where's the link to the payload config file generator?
[14:56] <fsphil> I bet there's a tribute band called zedzed top
[14:56] <Lunar_Lander> I'm really laughing about that deal that Gilette offered them
[14:56] <zyp> I imagine I'm one of the youngest in the channel, so surely everybody have heard about zz top
[14:56] <Lunar_Lander> *Gillette
[14:56] <fsphil> and if not, there shoudl be
[14:57] <Lunar_Lander> they offered them $1 Million if they would shave for a commercial
[14:57] <zyp> actually, how old are people here?
[14:57] <fsphil> ooch
[14:58] <SamSilver> zyp: I think i might be the oldest
[14:58] <SamSilver> and cuddy the youngest
[14:58] <zyp> where do you think the average age lies?
[14:59] <SamSilver> 42
[14:59] <SamSilver> lol
[14:59] <zyp> :p
[14:59] <Lunar_Lander> well, Tom24 said he was 16
[14:59] <Lunar_Lander> IIRC
[14:59] <Lunar_Lander> or Tom25 his name was
[15:00] <Lunar_Lander> I'm 22
[15:00] <zyp> I'm 24
[15:00] <number10> should have been tom16
[15:00] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[15:00] <SamSilver> I'm 53
[15:02] <SamSilver> http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/pcs/2012/01/26/raspberry-pi-modders-dream-machine/2
[15:02] Action: fsphil is 0x20
[15:02] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[15:03] <SamSilver> will not be long before we see watercooling and overclocking on the RasberryPi
[15:03] <Lunar_Lander> btw, a friend and I once looked around town for a birthday present for a friend of her who turned 20
[15:03] <Lunar_Lander> and then I saw a table decoration
[15:03] <Lunar_Lander> a golden 50
[15:03] <costyn> I'm 34
[15:03] <Lunar_Lander> I said "let's buy it and attach a -30 to it"
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[15:04] <Lunar_Lander> OK
[15:05] <Lunar_Lander> time to go to the mailbox
[15:05] <Lunar_Lander> :)=
[15:05] <Lunar_Lander> cu later
[15:06] <gonzo_> easier, just ad an 'h' or 0x and go hex for birthdays
[15:06] <cuddykid> sending uplink command to camera - stand by for blast off :P
[15:06] Action: fsphil stands back again
[15:07] <cuddykid> whole of UK just blows up
[15:07] <gonzo_> or an outbreak of mass swearing
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[15:07] <cuddykid> yep
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[15:10] <cuddykid> lol - out of range
[15:11] Action: cuddykid moving close
[15:11] <SamSilver> have i been living under a rock or what? how come i never heard of chromebook??
[15:14] <SamSilver> ooh I thought it was a laptop > not!! . http://www.google.co.uk/chromebook/buynow.html#source=ola&cmp=ChromebooksQ1UK&srcid=1005261
[15:15] <gonzo_> thin(ish) client machine. So bugger all use when you drop off grid
[15:15] <cuddykid> brilliant - uplink worked :)
[15:15] <SamSilver> thanx
[15:16] <cuddykid> (at a close range lol)
[15:16] <cuddykid> but no antennas on them - yet
[15:16] <gonzo_> your payloed fell off the hooke then?
[15:16] <cuddykid> off to collect helium, be back laters
[15:17] <number10> well you could use it ti initiate a parachute cut if stuck in a tree cuddykid
[15:17] <number10> it to
[15:17] <cuddykid> yep
[15:17] <cuddykid> it's got a button to activate cutdown
[15:17] <number10> have an extra cutdown to cut parachute off
[15:18] <eroomde> 24
[15:18] <cuddykid> number10: won't be able to this last min :(
[15:18] <eroomde> i have come late to the conversation
[15:19] <number10> thats old age for you eroomde ;)
[15:32] Nick change: SamSilver -> SamSilver_
[15:33] <costyn> cuddykid: sounds like you have all bases covered, have you got pix and/or descriptons online yet of your payload? i'd be interested to see what you've made
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[16:06] <eroomde> my friend and I occassionally text each other with silly pun 'adult remake' titles of famous films or TV shows
[16:06] <eroomde> i just received: 'Downtown Abbie'
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[16:08] <gonzo_> Sin-derella
[16:08] <eroomde> oh we've not had that one
[16:08] <eroomde> this game has been going on for about 2 years now so we've done most of them
[16:09] <gonzo_> You need to listen to "i'm sorry I haven't a clue"
[16:09] <eroomde> i have done since I was 10
[16:10] <gonzo_> addictive itsn't it
[16:10] <eroomde> uxbridge english dictionary is always being played at work
[16:10] <eroomde> just randomly coming out with a definition while everyone is quiet working
[16:11] <gonzo_> listening to 'clue on the headphones is not good is a quiet office though
[16:12] <daveake_> :D
[16:12] <daveake_> Paperback - what a masseuse earns
[16:12] <daveake_> Those are great :)
[16:14] <eroomde> panache - residue of skillet due to excessive heat
[16:14] <gonzo_> Countryside = To kill Piers Morgan
[16:14] <daveake_> It's overdue
[16:15] <eroomde> Pistol - a monitary charge for urination
[16:16] <gonzo_> I did get a copy of rodger's profanasaurus for xmas
[16:20] <eroomde> profanasaurus - a dinosaur that gets paid to install air conditioning
[16:21] <daveake_> :D
[16:24] <daveake_> Apogee - An overweight person.
[16:24] <UpuWork> and there's me advising people to come to this channel for technical advise
[16:27] <daveake_> lol
[16:30] <eroomde> radiometrix - ham enthusiast forgets how to perform magic
[16:30] <daveake_> rtty - Good at art
[16:31] <daveake_> Arbitrate - Ah, speed of data transfer
[16:31] <eroomde> arbitrate - a pirate's bandwidth
[16:32] <daveake_> Better :)
[16:32] <daveake_> Upu I now have a BOC account - might come in handy for that spare balloon you sent :)
[16:33] <eroomde> daveake_: get yourself some 271088-L
[16:34] <eroomde> I have phoned up boc and asked for that so many times of the years, it's like an extension of my body
[16:34] <eroomde> and magically a big bottle of it arrives the next day
[16:34] <daveake_> :)
[16:34] <eroomde> i'm not even sure what it is
[16:35] <eroomde> but you put it in balloons and they go up
[16:36] <daveake_> "lasing gas" apparently
[16:36] <eroomde> it's reserach grade He
[16:36] <eroomde> so needless pure for what we do
[16:36] <eroomde> needlessly*
[16:36] <daveake_> Yep
[16:36] <eroomde> but apparently it's easier for them to give us that than lower grade He
[16:37] <eroomde> re: arbitrate
[16:37] <daveake_> wierd
[16:37] <eroomde> 'Pieces of nine, pieces of nine' - parroty error
[16:37] <daveake_> groan!
[16:38] <daveake_> "All hands on DEC" - call to nautical computer engineers
[16:39] <daveake_> Hydrogen 7 cu.m £44. Not bad.
[16:39] <eroomde> yeah quite cheap
[16:39] <UpuWork> hydrogen is much cheaper
[16:40] <eroomde> i'm going to launch the next one I do on hydrogen
[16:40] <eroomde> just to have a play
[16:40] <daveake_> I pay £65 for 3.5 of He, so that's about 1/3rd
[16:40] <UpuWork> just got some sample MAX6's from Alphamicro
[16:40] <eroomde> cute
[16:41] <Laurenceb> watch it doesnt land in japan
[16:41] <Laurenceb> with hydrogen
[16:41] <daveake_> IIRC the calc said it would have added ~700 metres to Buzz1 all else begin equal, and that would have been #1 wr
[16:41] <eroomde> we need more pirate/nerd puns
[16:41] <eroomde> keep en coming
[16:41] <daveake_> buzz2
[16:41] <eroomde> my friend became a high frequency trader recently
[16:41] Action: UpuWork covers his ears
[16:41] <eroomde> as for some silly tax reasons, all the employers have to be incorporated as their own company
[16:42] <UpuWork> oh wait irc...
[16:42] <eroomde> so he asked me for suggestions on what to name his one-man high frequency trading company
[16:42] <UpuWork> this isn't a bad joke ?
[16:42] <UpuWork> oh wait here it comes
[16:42] <eroomde> i suggested 'Hertz the economy'
[16:42] <eroomde> which he didn't like
[16:42] <UpuWork> bam and there it is
[16:42] <daveake_> Feline - Cat made of iron, lithium and neon
[16:43] <eroomde> have you heard the one about the mother-in-law?
[16:43] <daveake_> lol
[16:45] <eroomde> mutex - when a former lover won't talk to you
[16:45] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: Plank-time trading.
[16:45] <SpeedEvil> ck
[16:47] <eroomde> oh go on the UpuWork, tell us about your GPS units
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[16:54] <cuddykid> got the helium! :D
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[16:55] <UpuWork> nothing to say really they are small and coming my way soon when Alphamicro work out ow to attach proform invoices to mail
[16:56] <UpuWork> still launching ?
[16:56] <cuddykid> oh the only reason why telemetry stopped uploading was because dlfldigi froze
[16:56] <eroomde> complicated
[16:56] <cuddykid> UpuWork: yup
[16:56] <UpuWork> cool sadly won't be able to track but I've made my rig availble for remote listening
[16:57] <UpuWork> right home time!
[16:57] <cuddykid> brill thanks - UpuWork, I'm yet to sort out the config file properly - do you have a link to the config generator?
[16:57] <cuddykid> -0.8C out there
[16:57] <cuddykid> all telemetry working well so far
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[16:59] <cuddykid> camera looks to have conked out - might be the cold weather affecting the alkalines
[16:59] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[16:59] <Lunar_Lander> do you have Li too?
[17:00] <cuddykid> yep, but saving them for the flight
[17:00] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[17:00] <cuddykid> oh - the camera appears not to have taken any photos - all to familiar with that crap!
[17:01] <cuddykid> it was definitely taking them
[17:01] <Lunar_Lander> ohh
[17:01] <cuddykid> I heard the shutter go off
[17:01] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[17:01] <fsphil> uhog
[17:02] <eroomde> uhog - upload and share videos of your pet pig
[17:02] <daveake_> lol
[17:02] <Lunar_Lander> is there AXE deodorant in the UK too?
[17:02] <eroomde> it's called Lynx in the UK
[17:03] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[17:03] <fsphil> cause cats smell nice
[17:03] <Lunar_Lander> here they made a new commercial with a guy building an ark and then a lot of women came to there and a guy says "In 2012, the world comes to its end. AXE Final Edition"
[17:03] <Lunar_Lander> what a crap commercial
[17:04] <Lunar_Lander> there are people which are actually scared of December 21
[17:04] <Lunar_Lander> only fuels the fear
[17:05] <Laurenceb> lmao
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[17:05] <daveake_> "If you think the Mayans predicted the world will end in 2012, you're a nobber" - Brian Cox
[17:05] <Lunar_Lander> xD yay!
[17:06] <Lunar_Lander> and the name
[17:06] <Lunar_Lander> "Final Edition"
[17:06] <Lunar_Lander> maybe the boss of Unilever is a nobber?
[17:06] <Laurenceb> "If you think the Mayans predicted the world will end in 2012, you're a right"
[17:06] <Laurenceb> FTFY
[17:06] <daveake_> "AXE - For Nobbers". Could do well
[17:06] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[17:06] <Laurenceb> thatd sting
[17:07] <Laurenceb> surely
[17:07] <Lunar_Lander> you mean right like BNP?
[17:07] <Lunar_Lander> or how it is called
[17:07] <SpeedEvil> The 2012 end-date is actually a conspiracy lead by some old men who have obtained secret positions of power. They are using their connections to foster panic in the hope of extra royalties.
[17:07] <SpeedEvil> np: Europe - The Final Countdown
[17:07] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[17:07] <Lunar_Lander> BNP is that right-wing shit, right?
[17:08] <Laurenceb> well technically
[17:08] <Laurenceb> they have some left wing policies too
[17:08] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[17:08] <fsphil> everyone knows the world ends on 2038
[17:08] <cuddykid> the camera just appears to have conked out randomly - there's nothing in the code that would cause it by the looks of it
[17:08] <Laurenceb> unix time overflow?
[17:08] <fsphil> yea
[17:08] <Laurenceb> lol
[17:08] <Lunar_Lander> well
[17:09] <SamSilver_> cuddykid: maybe flush more often
[17:09] <Laurenceb> i never understood the millenium bug
[17:09] <fsphil> 19th January -- you don't even get the full year :)
[17:09] <Laurenceb> why the hell would you encode time like that
[17:09] <Lunar_Lander> first we'll have the 100000 km flyby of that asteroid in 2029
[17:09] <cuddykid> SamSilver_: what do you mean flush?
[17:09] <Lunar_Lander> and that comes back in 2036
[17:09] <Lunar_Lander> but the strike chance is low
[17:09] <Lunar_Lander> IIRC
[17:09] <SamSilver_> flush the memory more often
[17:10] <Lunar_Lander> and the WC
[17:10] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[17:11] <fsphil> nah, wastes water
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[17:16] <cuddykid> ahh appears to have been a battery problem
[17:16] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Back in the day, bytes were precious.
[17:16] <cuddykid> I guess the cold effected the alkalines?
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[17:17] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: A lot of old databases have their origin in a time where a kilobit of storage wasn't of negligible cost.
[17:17] <Laurenceb> yeah but why rollover at a power of 10?
[17:18] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: binary coded decimal was likewise common, for computational efficiencies.
[17:18] <SpeedEvil> Hence you can pack 2 digits in a byte
[17:18] <Laurenceb> why not just use hex
[17:18] <Laurenceb> hmm i suppose
[17:18] <SpeedEvil> A lot of old processors had opcodes to deal with BCD format efficiently
[17:19] <Laurenceb> interesting
[17:19] <LazyLeopard> ...and throw COBOL "PICTURE 99" into the mix...
[17:19] <SpeedEvil> It makes a lot more sense if you think about database records as things you may store on cards.
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[17:19] <fsphil> 6502 has that
[17:20] <fsphil> 9+1 = 0x10
[17:20] <fsphil> I don't think it's ever used
[17:20] <SpeedEvil> Which have 70*9 (?) holes.
[17:20] <SpeedEvil> Binary data also made the cards more floppy
[17:23] <Lunar_Lander> btw I had a thought
[17:23] Action: fsphil hides
[17:23] <Lunar_Lander> if a DeLorean makes a good Knight Rider car
[17:28] <number10> just love the met-office weather site - has a warning A band of snow will continue to move slowly eastwards across England during the first half of Sunday... likely to be of order 5-10cm...
[17:29] <number10> so I click the weather map for various towns in east and get a mixture of sun/mist icons - no snow icons
[17:30] <W0OTM> Howdy
[17:30] <number10> hi
[17:30] <W0OTM> Whats the good word in the HAB community
[17:31] <daveake_> They should link to "I'm sorry I haven't a clue"
[17:31] <number10> various HAB launches at the weekend maybe postponed
[17:31] <W0OTM> I saw that. UK launches?
[17:31] <eroomde> the good word is 'Avuncular'
[17:32] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.amazon.de/fr%C3%BCh-f%C3%BCr-die-Zukunft-DeLorean-Drama/dp/376883364X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1328203776&sr=8-1
[17:32] <number10> well I think they must have two departments daveake_ , and they doint talk to eachother - one for forcast one for warning
[17:32] <daveake_> I think cuddykid's is going ahead; mine looks doubtful; the CUSF one is postponed
[17:32] <Lunar_Lander> daveake_: I put the letter into the mailbox earlier
[17:32] <daveake_> It'll probably arrive before I do launch LL :)
[17:32] <Lunar_Lander> yay :)
[17:33] <W0OTM> http://ihabproject.com/BallooMerang/BM-1/TestFlight-4/Ascent_4.jpg
[17:33] <Lunar_Lander> hey W0OTM
[17:33] <W0OTM> Hey Lunar
[17:33] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[17:33] <Lunar_Lander> W0OTM: I got a question
[17:33] <W0OTM> Oh no
[17:33] <W0OTM> ok
[17:33] <Lunar_Lander> since last week I'm dreaming of a DMC-12 DeLorean
[17:34] <Lunar_Lander> do you maybe know people who sell one?
[17:34] <W0OTM> There is a DeLorean dealer in California
[17:34] <Lunar_Lander> yeah, I saw that on TV
[17:34] <Lunar_Lander> I think that in Holland there is a branch of them
[17:34] <W0OTM> oh you watched Wheeler Dealers
[17:34] <Lunar_Lander> yeah :)
[17:34] <W0OTM> LMAO
[17:34] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[17:35] <W0OTM> DeLorean isn't ALL that great
[17:35] <W0OTM> seriously
[17:35] <W0OTM> I would stop dreaming if I were you
[17:35] <Lunar_Lander> because they are unreliable?
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[17:37] <W0OTM> No, just not worth the hype
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[17:38] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[17:38] <cuddykid> certainly looks like it will be a lower altitude flight - probably 30km
[17:38] <Lunar_Lander> there was something interesting
[17:38] <cuddykid> otherwise I'll be traversing the whole of the country lol
[17:38] <Lunar_Lander> in front of the californian shop was one delorean which turn lights were white and not yellow
[17:38] <Lunar_Lander> the glass of them I mean
[17:38] <Lunar_Lander> I wonder if that was like an early version
[17:39] <Lunar_Lander> it also lacked the louver(?)
[17:39] <W0OTM> I dont remember
[17:41] <Lunar_Lander> http://s.gullipics.com/image/d/z/u/5zttlz-j18gx6-kgsy/img.png
[17:41] <Lunar_Lander> the right one
[17:41] <W0OTM> oh yeha
[17:41] <Lunar_Lander> also seems that the bumper is always different, either only black letters, silver letters or like on there
[17:41] <W0OTM> the louvers aere removable
[17:42] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[17:43] <Lunar_Lander> and the rear light glass is different as I said
[17:43] <Lunar_Lander> accomodates a yellow lamp as the glass is white
[17:48] <Lunar_Lander> W0OTM: the best line of the show was
[17:48] <Upu> Anyone any experience in using HX1 to do APRS, nigelvh has a few questions
[17:49] <Lunar_Lander> "When I remove the seats there is a surprise for me - a dead lizard. Those stinky carpets go into the trash"
[17:49] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[17:53] <Upu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YQIMGV5vtd4
[17:53] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[17:55] <cuddykid> daveake: is it likely that you'll be launching?
[17:55] <daveake_> no
[17:56] <daveake_> Possible but looking rather unlikely
[17:57] <daveake_> The predictor now has the noon data update and no real change
[17:58] <daveake_> I could launch my little 60g payload and wave goodbye to it as it heads for a wet landing, but for that I'd be better waiting till I can get some H2. I opened a BOC account today but no time to get it delivered.
[17:58] <cuddykid> ahh ok
[17:59] <cuddykid> yeah it does seem quite a SE landing from wherever launched - I just need to guide it away from london
[18:00] <number10> that figure of 8 was neat towards the end Upu
[18:00] <daveake_> Nothing I can do to get a dry landing at the mo, not without a big risk of a wet one anyway
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[18:19] <daveake_> Shame about the postage ... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Trimble-Lassen-iQ-Micro12-Channel-46240-20-GPS-/360287955395?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53e2d5e9c3#ht_518wt_860
[18:22] <SpeedEvil> contact them
[18:22] <SpeedEvil> they've almost certainly screwed up the shipping calculators
[18:23] <SpeedEvil> International priority mail is $16.95
[18:25] <daveake_> Yeah. I'll email.
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[18:28] Action: hibby shouts at matlab
[18:33] <daveake_> email sent.
[18:34] <joph> daveake_, yeah, 40,85$ shipping, delivered in a package made out of gold? :D
[18:36] <daveake_> :-). I've asked him to check that, and give me a price for 20
[18:36] <daveake_> I'm sure they'd sell :)
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[18:38] <joph> daveake_, fed ex express costs "just" 27$ *g*
[18:39] <daveake_> Yeah, I ship stuff, I'm aware of the actual costs :)
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[18:45] <number10> 20 lassens daveake_ that means plenty of hab flights planned :)
[18:46] <daveake_> It's just a number -)
[18:46] <daveake_> I'd sell most on at cost
[18:46] <number10> could be larger ?
[18:46] <daveake_> Anyway the listing says he has 5 left
[18:47] <number10> so he may get confused when you ask for 20
[18:47] <number10> oops
[18:47] <daveake_> I asked how many he really has
[18:48] <daveake_> he said "LOTS" in the listing text
[18:49] <hibby> hmm
[18:49] <number10> i am not an expert on ebay (or anything else for that matter) ae the charges to ebay paid on the item cost and not the postage - so they make more money by exaggerating postage
[18:50] <number10> are
[18:50] <SpeedEvil> It's not that simple.
[18:50] <SpeedEvil> Sellers vary in how they deal with htis.
[18:50] <SpeedEvil> And of course - it's P&P
[18:51] <daveake_> yeah. nyway I've emailed off ebay and we'll see what he says
[18:51] <SpeedEvil> your'e also paying for the guy to pack and post it. As well as the bare fee.
[18:51] <number10> yes ic SpeedEvil
[18:52] <cuddykid> CAA permission in :)
[18:52] <daveake_> :)
[18:52] <number10> never sold anything myself, hence ignorance
[18:54] <SpeedEvil> It varies all the way from 'I charge only the exact postage' (neglecting envelope costs) on up to downright fraudulent.
[18:55] <daveake_> yep
[18:56] <cuddykid> hmm
[18:56] <cuddykid> camera has stopped again
[18:57] <daveake_> Is this a new "again" or the same again as the last again? :p
[18:57] <number10> I think more testing and a delay may be a good idea - none of this seems to be stable cuddykid
[18:57] <cuddykid> same as last
[18:58] <cuddykid> it just seems to be after a certain length of time - it might be the modified chdk version I'm using
[18:58] <daveake_> cuddykid if you do postpone, what you could do is ask around if anyone around here happens to have a payload waiting to fly ...
[18:58] <cuddykid> number10: flight computer stuff is stable(ish) now :)
[18:58] <number10> ish ;)
[18:58] <cuddykid> I won't be postponing - unless the winds are awful
[18:59] <daveake_> Worth a try :D
[18:59] <cuddykid> last test of this code - with new batteries. If the problem persists it's likely to be to do with modified chdk
[19:00] <cuddykid> I'll revert to just photos then
[19:00] <daveake_> Latest prediction? If I'm not launching I might as well help track/chase it
[19:01] <cuddykid> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=19687074184d6c33daa1ad2fa8ea4d104b44c407
[19:02] <cuddykid> problem is it's quite a way to collect
[19:03] <daveake_> pah. now try recovering from Belgium ;)
[19:03] <cuddykid> haha
[19:03] <number10> its also late - 15:00 so will be dark when landed cuddykid
[19:03] <number10> for the launch
[19:03] <cuddykid> number10: earlier it's dumped in london
[19:03] <number10> this is too risky I think
[19:03] <cuddykid> 15:00 UTC = 14:00 our time :)
[19:03] <cuddykid> I'm going to keep checking tomorrow
[19:04] <daveake_> hmmm .... you might need it to be more consistent than that
[19:04] <number10> a london landing would not be good for all of us
[19:04] <daveake_> I don't know - I've not done a launch under such changeable conditions - but I'd be wary that the prediction might not be accurate if it changes a lot during a few hours
[19:05] <cuddykid> yeah, it should be more accurate tomorrow
[19:06] <number10> but do check various times for launch.. and if there is a wide variation it would not be wise
[19:06] <cuddykid> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=f37a741c37759d76d4a72aa7aab991328e0bd9dc
[19:06] <cuddykid> is also a possibility
[19:06] <daveake_> Yes, I'm just saying that if on the launch day the prediction varies a lot during the day then probably the prediction isn't reliable.
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[19:07] <cuddykid> in fact earlier looks better by quite a way
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[19:11] <cuddykid> earlier looks stable too
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[19:15] <daveake_> At the mo, I can just about get it to touch land. Just. http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=93bbaff666085e45377ad7b241bc3d2d51926092
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[19:17] <number10> have they got fish and chip shop there?
[19:17] <daveake_> lol
[19:18] <number10> :)
[19:19] <number10> isn't james down that way
[19:20] <daveake_> Dunno.
[19:21] <cuddykid> nie
[19:21] <cuddykid> *nice
[19:21] <cuddykid> get the boat ready daveake_ :P
[19:21] <daveake_> not
[19:22] Action: daveake_ looks at inflatable.
[19:22] Action: daveake_ Decides he's too young to die.
[19:22] <fsphil> 1000 points for the first payload that can swim back to shore
[19:22] <cuddykid> haha
[19:22] <daveake_> Now you're talking
[19:22] <cuddykid> if only I had the glider built
[19:23] <daveake_> You asked about permission for that?
[19:23] <cuddykid> yeah, they're "deliberating" lol
[19:23] <cuddykid> it doesn't pose any greater danger to aircraft - possibly less
[19:23] <number10> thats a good challenge fsphil
[19:25] <number10> i am not too sure they are only considdering the aircraft danger on the way up, as you have to have permission for launch but could land anywhere
[19:27] <fsphil> it would tie in well with my board project
[19:27] <fsphil> combined payload and boat
[19:27] <fsphil> already has gps
[19:27] <daveake_> yep
[19:27] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[19:27] <fsphil> just needs a small motor and something to turn it
[19:27] <daveake_> just needs control of the boat servos
[19:28] <daveake_> some logic to aim it
[19:28] <daveake_> and needs to know where to aim
[19:28] <fsphil> infact the RC boat I have has just two small props
[19:28] <fsphil> control the power to them to aim
[19:29] <daveake_> If you could tell it where to go, then that would make its job a lot easier. So you find a nice beach, SMS the position with maybe a waypoint to avoid rocks/piers/etc, then it does the rest
[19:29] <fsphil> interesting
[19:29] <fsphil> uplink the waypoint as it descends
[19:29] <fsphil> in case it lands out of range
[19:30] <daveake_> yep
[19:30] <fsphil> would need to cut away the parachute
[19:30] <daveake_> How far can an "out of the box" cheapish r/c boat go on 1 set of batts?
[19:30] <daveake_> Easy enough
[19:31] <daveake_> Might need 10 miles :D
[19:31] <SpeedEvil> How good is your throwing arm?
[19:31] <fsphil> the boat I have never got a good practice, but it was pretty fast and the batteries lasted about 15 minutes
[19:31] <SpeedEvil> ~1m/s is fairly common
[19:31] <number10> well it need to ditch about 100m from the fish and chip shop
[19:32] <number10> +s
[19:32] <number10> it will be heading agains the prevailing wind
[19:32] <number10> +t
[19:32] <number10> !q
[19:32] <daveake_> fail
[19:32] <fsphil> lol
[19:33] <number10> indeed daveake_
[19:33] <daveake_> Looked like editor commands for a mo :)
[19:34] <number10> well the !q was but I couldnt remeber the vi editor quit even
[19:34] <fsphil> :q
[19:34] <daveake_> So maybe 1km from a single battery
[19:35] <daveake_> Extra batteries are easy enough to add but suspect the motor might object to running for a long time
[19:35] <daveake_> Need water cooling :)
[19:35] <number10> thanks fsphil
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[19:40] <Lunar_Lander> oh man
[19:40] <Lunar_Lander> http://wetter.physik.uni-osnabrueck.de/
[19:41] <number10> not windy there I gather form the windchill
[19:41] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:42] <Lunar_Lander> but current wind speed is 2.54 kph it says
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[20:02] <cuddykid> when do the updated winds/predictions come in usually?
[20:03] <Upu> 0600 1200 1800 0000 I think
[20:03] <Upu> might be wrong
[20:03] <cuddykid> thanks
[20:03] <cuddykid> oh dear& -9C wind chill on saturday morning here!
[20:03] <cuddykid> pushing my HAB skills (if I have any&) to the limit
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> cuddykid: on the uni website?
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> ah you meant the predictor
[20:04] <cuddykid> netweather.tv
[20:04] <cuddykid> Lunar_Lander: yeah
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:06] <cuddykid> looks like I may be chasing in the snow aswell - fun fun fun!
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[20:06] <cuddykid> this could potentially be quite an extreme launch lol
[20:06] <daveake_> Make sure the payload isn't white then :)
[20:08] <cuddykid> it is& lol
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[20:08] <cuddykid> with buzzer :P
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> I heard that in case of snow, they have an orange ball for football
[20:08] <cuddykid> now - this - looks better: http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=9a2789094b26f7cdf0c0a426cd923e01a0f11142
[20:08] <cuddykid> inflating to the max I think
[20:10] <cuddykid> earlier the better and more inflated the better
[20:11] <cuddykid> if it landed nearish oxford that would be fine - a fairly easy journey from mine
[20:11] <cuddykid> ~1hr
[20:11] <daveake_> "earlier the better and more inflated the better" .... now that's something to remember ...
[20:12] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[20:13] <cuddykid> daveake: lol
[20:14] <cuddykid> would this seem about right - 2 AA batteries inside A570 running for about 1.5hrs at 0C ?
[20:14] <cuddykid> or is that a little short (time-wise)?
[20:14] <Upu> hah
[20:14] <Upu> I got 8 hours in an A560
[20:14] <Upu> 5 of which were in the North Sea
[20:14] <Upu> just turn the screen off
[20:15] <cuddykid> Upu: yeah, screen was off - this was with alkalines though (should've mentioned that!) - Lithiums are incredible
[20:16] <cuddykid> so yeah, would that be about right for alkalines at that temp?
[20:16] <daveake_> yep. I measured about 8 (I don't remember exactly) on an A495
[20:16] <daveake_> Prolly. Alkalines are shit for high loads
[20:17] <SpeedEvil> Especially inytrermittent pulse loads
[20:17] <daveake_> My Zx1 does ~4 hours on lithiums and 45 mins on alkaline
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[21:00] Nick change: Richard -> Guest11046
[21:01] <Guest11046> Hello
[21:01] <SpeedEvil> hi
[21:03] <Guest11046> Hi, not a regular on here, but having a look at my new kit and thought I'd pop on
[21:05] <cuddykid> still taking photos with my lithiums :)
[21:07] <Guest11046> Has anyone used the Ublox NEO 6Q?
[21:07] <Guest11046> Lithiums?
[21:12] <fsphil> I keep forgetting the hx1 needs 5v. annoying
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[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> wb daveake_
[21:27] <daveake_> stupid internet
[21:27] <daveake_> been slow today
[21:27] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:31] <cuddykid> Guest11046: yup
[21:31] <cuddykid> to the lithiums not ublox
[21:32] <cuddykid> still going :D
[21:32] <cuddykid> must have been a battery issue
[21:32] <Guest11046> Think you've got me confused with someone else?
[21:33] <Guest11046> What's the best way to access #highaltitude without using the web interface?
[21:34] <cuddykid> colloquy
[21:39] <Guest11046> I usually use my pc, but am on the iPad at the mo. will take a look thanks cuddykid
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[21:44] <MLow> i prefer a monitor
[21:49] <Guest11046> Mlow, the comedian of highaltitude? :-)
[21:51] Action: fsphil has lost all his 5v regulators
[21:51] <MLow> ouch
[21:52] <MLow> try a usb
[21:52] <MLow> Guest11046: nah im new here
[21:52] <MLow> well kinda, I was here about a year ago...no one remembers me. :(
[21:52] <fsphil> I've got a bag somewhere with about 20 of them
[21:53] <MLow> your already at a computer with 5v rail...why bother
[21:53] <fsphil> it's to run a radio module remotely :)
[21:53] <daveake_> fsphil What you need to do is order more. Then, usually within 5 minutes, you'll find the ones you lost.
[21:53] <daveake_> Works for me.
[21:54] <fsphil> that's exactly what'll happen lol
[21:54] <MLow> my organization could be better
[21:54] <fsphil> same here
[21:54] <MLow> i have bags of digikey orders all over it and behind my monitor
[21:54] <fsphil> I'm starting to
[21:54] <daveake_> I have half the world's stock of DS18B20s, for exactly this reason
[21:54] <fsphil> I also have some of those DS sensors but no idea where
[21:54] <fsphil> they're probably in an unlabelled box
[21:55] <MLow> DS18B20s?
[21:55] <daveake_> temp sensors
[21:55] <MLow> i've only used LM6x
[21:55] <daveake_> handy for finding out how cold it is inside and outside your payload
[21:55] <fsphil> actually must dig them out, now that I know how to talk to them
[21:55] <daveake_> "one wire" (though it's really 2, or 3 if you want them to work)
[21:55] <fsphil> yea
[21:55] <fsphil> cheaters
[21:56] <MLow> v, gnd, data?
[21:56] <fsphil> yea
[21:56] <daveake_> yep
[21:56] <fsphil> it's a neat system
[21:56] <MLow> i suppose v, and gnd would suffice but it wont tell you much
[21:56] <fsphil> you can send the v over data
[21:56] <daveake_> And you can stick lots together with only the 1 data line
[21:56] <MLow> interesting
[21:56] <MLow> must sample some
[21:56] <fsphil> whoever came up with the device scan part of 1-wire was a genius
[21:57] <MLow> so, i need some connectors
[21:57] <MLow> im making a 5v and 3v3 power supply for my payload
[21:58] <MLow> runs off any battery 5.1v-12v
[21:58] <MLow> are LDO common for that sort of thing?
[21:58] <MLow> or too enefficient
[21:59] <SpeedEvil> yes, they are common
[21:59] <SpeedEvil> you will waste lots of power thoguh
[21:59] <MLow> because ive made switching supplies before
[22:00] <daveake_> Keeps your payload warm, which is a plus
[22:00] <MLow> but even they are only 80% or so
[22:00] <MLow> or would a switching supply be overkill
[22:00] <daveake_> But if you want to save weight my using smaller/fewer cells, then a switcher is better
[22:01] <MLow> ive got some samples of LT1308b i want to put to use
[22:01] <MLow> i love samples and they love me <3
[22:01] <MLow> except when i break a pin on a soic16
[22:01] <MLow> then i cry a little inside
[22:01] <daveake_> Just reading up on what to expect soon ...http://www.allatoms.com/WeatherBalloonPage.htm :D
[22:02] <MLow> ok
[22:02] <MLow> hard question
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[22:02] <MLow> how to fit a K size tank im my kia
[22:02] <MLow> :\
[22:03] <MLow> 5' high including cap
[22:03] <daveake_> K is the 7 cu metre H2 ?
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[22:03] <MLow> thats like....1.5m?
[22:04] <MLow> my metric is rusty
[22:04] <MLow> oh cubic meter...hm
[22:04] <MLow> its 119cu/ft
[22:04] <MLow> 3.3cubic meter
[22:05] <daveake_> 3.36
[22:05] <daveake_> tiny
[22:05] <MLow> according to google
[22:05] <daveake_> :)
[22:05] <navrac2> back seat down, front seat tipped forward and probably boot open...
[22:05] <MLow> 5 feet is tiny?
[22:05] Action: MLow wonders if the gents at alamo welding supply will look at me weird.
[22:05] <daveake_> No, j/k :)
[22:06] <daveake_> I took my little payload for a drive today when I went to the BOC (gas) place ... queued in traffic after I realised I probably looked a bit, well, gay with a pink ball on the dash ...
[22:06] <MLow> pink?
[22:07] <daveake_> very
[22:07] <MLow> fuscia?
[22:07] <daveake_> pink is the new yellow
[22:07] <MLow> possibly gay looking then, no expert
[22:07] <daveake_> https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/429142_10150525745107654_695937653_8784509_1045776688_n.jpg
[22:07] <MLow> i need to get a stick or something 5' and check out the size
[22:07] <MLow> red possibly better color
[22:08] <daveake_> That doesn't really do it justice tho
[22:08] <MLow> i ordered a chute the other day, due to come in today...first part to come in for my project
[22:08] <MLow> im giddy
[22:09] <MLow> 36' chute, embroidered with my phone number "REWARD IF FOUND XXX-XXX-XXXX"
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[22:09] <MLow> ;D
[22:09] <SpeedEvil> :)
[22:09] <SpeedEvil> Did you do it yourself - teh embroidary?
[22:09] <MLow> lol no
[22:09] <MLow> rocketcutes.com
[22:09] <SpeedEvil> Are you sure you have enough monitors?
[22:10] <MLow> i wish i had that many...im down to 1
[22:10] <MLow> they die on me
[22:10] <MLow> was up to 3 at once
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[22:10] Nick change: Jessica__ -> Jessica_Lily
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[22:11] <Laurenceb_> whats wrong with embroidary?
[22:11] <MLow> NOTHING
[22:11] Action: Laurenceb_ still hasnt fixed his sewing machine :(
[22:12] <Laurenceb_> stupid pedal has worn out
[22:12] <daveake_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQvpK9cl0No
[22:12] <daveake_> Just want to know what to expect :)
[22:15] <fsphil> that's not bad
[22:16] <fsphil> tip: stand upwind
[22:16] <SpeedEvil> I want a proper knitting machine/filliment winder.
[22:16] <daveake_> :)
[22:16] <daveake_> Avoid the burning latex
[22:16] <SpeedEvil> Isn't the pedal just a pot?
[22:17] <Upu> evening
[22:17] <Upu> Guest11046 miRC
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[22:18] <Upu> dang
[22:19] <navrac2> he should have used mirc then
[22:20] <daveake_> :D
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> XD
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[22:26] <Laurenceb_> SpeedEvil: yes
[22:26] <Laurenceb_> i want to replace it with proper speed control
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[22:26] <Laurenceb_> but id probably have to rip out the back of the machine to fit a new connector
[22:26] <Laurenceb_> - active feedback speed control
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[22:27] <Laurenceb_> problem is the back panel is die cast
[22:28] <Laurenceb_> lots of filing to put in an IEC connector
[22:28] <SpeedEvil> ah
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[22:29] <SpeedEvil> I tried to buy a machine to do that. Unfortunately, a filing cabinet was not what I hoped.
[22:29] <Laurenceb_> it uses a universal motor, so i was thinking maybe rectifier then a few hundered uF cap
[22:29] <Laurenceb_> then mosfet with a micro running it
[22:30] <SpeedEvil> recitfying makes on e brush wear more
[22:30] <Laurenceb_> id need to generate low voltage DC, theres some diode circuits for that
[22:30] <Laurenceb_> really
[22:30] <Laurenceb_> how come?
[22:30] <SpeedEvil> The positive electrode wears more, as the spark is hotter or something
[22:31] <Laurenceb_> odd
[22:31] <SpeedEvil> Or maybe negative
[22:31] <Laurenceb_> i guess it makes sense if you work it out properly...
[22:31] <Laurenceb_> but i cant be bothered :P
[22:32] <Laurenceb_> with a triac its apparently very jittery
[22:33] <Laurenceb_> id need a low voltage dc pedal for control - maybe off a cheap low voltage sewing machine?
[22:33] <SpeedEvil> yuou need a driver designed for very inductive loads
[22:33] <Laurenceb_> but thats still a waste of money
[22:33] <SpeedEvil> there are 'drill speed controller' circuits out there
[22:33] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[22:34] <Laurenceb_> i still need a pedal
[22:34] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Speed-Control-AC-250V-4A-Trigger-Switch-Electric-Drill-Tool-/260945112280?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item3cc18a6cd8
[22:34] <SpeedEvil> Perhaps a _little_ cheap
[22:35] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/POWER-CONTROLLER-ELECTRIC-DRILL-SPEED-CONTROLLER-/180808914746?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Automation_Control_ET&hash=item2a190d173a
[22:35] <SpeedEvil> That seems a little spendy though
[22:36] <Laurenceb_> hehe
[22:36] <Laurenceb_> i have that same unit
[22:36] <cuddykid> camera is still going! Definitely a battery problem then
[22:36] <Laurenceb_> off an AEG drill from the 1980s
[22:36] <Laurenceb_> its ancient
[22:36] <cuddykid> that's a good 3hrs or so it's been running now
[22:36] <cuddykid> :D
[22:37] <SpeedEvil> :) indeed
[22:37] <Laurenceb_> yeah its identical
[22:38] <Laurenceb_> that Brocott thing loos good, but no feedback
[22:38] <Laurenceb_> still, its 1/3 the price of a replacement pedal with just a pot inside
[22:39] <Laurenceb_> s/no feedback/no speed feedback
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[22:39] <SpeedEvil> Isn't 'force feedback' - the drop in speed - sometimes useful
[22:39] <Laurenceb_> ill probably try and build it from scratch
[22:39] <SpeedEvil> to know if you're about to break something
[22:39] <Laurenceb_> hmm maybe
[22:40] <Laurenceb_> yeah i just checked - i have the same speed controller on an AEG hammer drill from 1988
[22:40] <SpeedEvil> Sewing machines have always seemed rather like helicopters.
[22:40] <Laurenceb_> someone ripped off the design :P
[22:40] <SpeedEvil> Way too many moving parts.
[22:41] <Laurenceb_> very impressive tho
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[22:42] <gonzo_> wind a mech tty over and watch it work, if you think sewing machines have lots of moving parts
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[22:55] <TimZaman> hello hello
[22:55] <TimZaman> anyone here? i have a question about databases :P
[22:55] <MLow> got much chute
[22:56] <MLow> nicely embroidered and very sturdy
[22:56] <Upu> Hey Tim
[22:56] <Upu> hows it going ?
[22:56] <TimZaman> hi upu
[22:56] <TimZaman> good! was on dutch national tv yesterday with HAB
[22:56] <TimZaman> already did the launch in november
[22:56] <daveake_> coo, fame
[22:56] <TimZaman> pretty sweet, 2x go pro, 1x canon, 2x minicamera, 1x polaroid camera
[22:57] <TimZaman> it wasn't with james may, or british awesomeness for that matter, but it was still cool :)
[22:57] <daveake_> :)
[22:57] <TimZaman> so, database question?
[22:58] <fsphil> fire away
[22:58] <TimZaman> So i maintain some tables with some info, doesnt matter for the rest, but i'm always thinking
[22:58] <TimZaman> what is the best way to keep it
[22:58] <TimZaman> because tables have interconnections ofcourse
[22:59] <TimZaman> for instance, there are places for production, that's a table with stuff in it
[22:59] <TimZaman> there is a table with productiontests which are ofcourse related to the place table
[22:59] <TimZaman> and those have the operators in them
[22:59] <TimZaman> lets say i want to have a nice view of only the operators
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[22:59] <TimZaman> it'd sound sensible then to make a table of the opertors, but that would mean duplicated data right
[23:00] <TimZaman> what's the best approach on that
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[23:00] <navrac2> you store the operastor table with an index - the index joins into the production table - eg fred=1
[23:00] <navrac2> msry=2
[23:00] <navrac2> peter=3
[23:01] <TimZaman> ya okay
[23:01] <navrac2> then in the productionstest you just store 1 in the operator field if its fred
[23:01] <TimZaman> but the thing is, why make an operator table, should i?
[23:01] <navrac2> well for efficiency - fredrick peterson= lots of chars, 1 is just asn int
[23:02] <TimZaman> yeah okay but i mean more like
[23:02] <navrac2> as there will be lots of repeated operators so it keeps it fast
[23:02] <TimZaman> if i want statistics on operators.. i could go through the whole tests' table and search for occurences for Fred.. then i have that
[23:02] <TimZaman> OR, with every new test i can put a +1 in the new potential operator table next to fred's name
[23:03] <TimZaman> and I'm confused wether how to deal with that
[23:03] <navrac2> 90% of databases use sql which makes it easy
[23:03] <navrac2> so to count how many tests fred has done you can just type:
[23:03] <TimZaman> yeah okay but the database type isnt important
[23:03] <TimZaman> yeah okay just do a count, i know!
[23:03] <TimZaman> but that's the thing, should i use a count, or, should i make a new table!?
[23:03] <navrac2> well sql works across lots of types so when you change databases its easy
[23:04] <navrac2> sql can do the count for you. What I'm trying to say that just about everything you want to know can be got from a line or two of sql
[23:04] <TimZaman> because ofcourse a count works, but i guess using a extra 'operatorstatistics' table is faster or something?
[23:05] <fsphil> a seperate table would be much easier to maintain
[23:05] <nigelvh_> I would recommend a separate table for operators, then the other tables will reference the id of the operators table.
[23:05] <fsphil> esp. if you want to add extra details to the operators later
[23:05] <nigelvh_> That way there's only one place to maintain the list of operators.
[23:05] <navrac2> yes - because you create an index on operators so selecting all the tests where fred is the operasor is very fast
[23:06] <navrac2> secondly if you enter fred into the production tests table and Fred in the next entry they are going to be different. You can also use the operatortable to create a set of options people can choose from
[23:08] <nigelvh_> Also, having a table of operators allows one to have more information about an operator than just "Fred", you can now have What types of tests does "fred" run, What "fred's" working hours are and so on. Not that you may or may not need those, but it allows for future expansion.
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[23:10] <TimZaman> yeah okay
[23:10] <TimZaman> so that's a good answer
[23:10] <TimZaman> BUT still
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[23:11] <TimZaman> would i include in that operatortable not only "Fred, age 19, fat" but also ", average speed = 300" or something
[23:11] <TimZaman> because that would be something that is already included in the productiontests table..
[23:11] <nigelvh_> I would have a "speed" in the tests table, then take an average of operator fred's test's speeds.
[23:12] <TimZaman> okay but then comes the question, how often would you update that
[23:12] <fsphil> update the operators table each time you add a new speed to the tests table
[23:12] <nigelvh_> Depends on how much you care about that. You could just generate the new average when you load the page. Depends on how much you care about the data being old, and how long the query takes.
[23:12] <TimZaman> that does mean 2x the amount of updates
[23:13] <fsphil> sql can handle it
[23:13] <navrac2> but you can make a database do the update asutomatically - atabases have triggers so you can get it to average freds speed and write it to the ooperators table everytime a test is done
[23:13] <TimZaman> that sounds neat
[23:14] <Darkside> nigelvh_: hi
[23:14] <navrac2> databases are pretty cool - if you like that sort of thing
[23:14] <Darkside> we talked via email
[23:14] <nigelvh_> Yes, you can set up triggers, or you can do it manually each time there's an update, but there's always an overhead. The question is how much you care, and how much overhead there is.
[23:14] <navrac2> the overhead would be tiny compared to the time to enter the test data
[23:14] <Darkside> nigelvh_: its probably a bad idea to have your APRS packets not gate. i'd suggest at least having them use WIDE1-1
[23:14] <Darkside> i mean, not digipeat
[23:15] <Darkside> you really want it to be digipeating when your payload gets near the ground
[23:15] <TimZaman> okay thanks guys
[23:15] <navrac2> np
[23:15] <nigelvh_> Sure
[23:15] <Darkside> nigelvh_: another option, which we're implenting at the moment, is to have the payload not use WIDE1-1 on ascent, but start using it on descent, or below a certain altitude
[23:16] <TimZaman> also, how to make nice boxes i can move around, dynamic divs?
[23:16] <nigelvh_> @Darkside, I do have my position packets digipeating. The telemetry packets dont (presently, I may change that).
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[23:16] <Darkside> nigelvh_: are you planning on viewing the track on aprs.fi?
[23:17] <nigelvh_> Yeah, probably.
[23:17] <Darkside> as they've got their own base-91 compressed telemetry format that can go in the comment field of a position packet
[23:17] <fsphil> yea that's nifty
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[23:17] <fsphil> I've done some tests with it -- everything in one packet
[23:17] <Darkside> we haven't implemented that one yet, but we've been meaning to
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[23:17] <Darkside> and yeah, it reduces the number of packets you need to send by half
[23:17] <Darkside> or alternately, lets you update more often
[23:18] <Darkside> depends how you want to handle your battery life
[23:18] <nigelvh_> Yeah, I've read about that. The issues come down to wanting to dump telemetry faster than would be kind to the local digipeaters and the APRS network, and 2, being able to read the packet data without having internet available.
[23:18] <MLow> hey Darkside
[23:18] <Darkside> nigelvh_: yeah, thats the fun part :P
[23:18] <Darkside> hi MLow
[23:18] <Darkside> nigelvh_: luckily the APRS network isnt really used much around here, so we just throw whatever we want at it
[23:19] <fsphil> images over aprs! *g*
[23:19] <Darkside> we also run mobile igates
[23:19] <Darkside> fsphil: we've considered it
[23:19] <fsphil> same here
[23:19] <Darkside> we seriously considered sending SSDV via aprs packerts
[23:19] <Darkside> but then realised we live in a country without draconian amateur radio laws
[23:19] <Darkside> and figured we could just fly ATV instead
[23:20] <Darkside> :P
[23:20] <nigelvh_> Yes, well over where we launch our balloons, it's also very lightly used, but it comes down to bothering the digipeaters with nearly continuous packets.
[23:20] <fsphil> that's 49.999 more frames per second than you need :p
[23:20] <nigelvh_> Also, we do fly ATV on our balloons.
[23:20] <Darkside> nigelvh_: speak to the digipeater operators
[23:20] <Darkside> if you let them know whats going on, they might be happy to let you do it
[23:20] <Darkside> thats what we did
[23:21] <Darkside> the general response was "a baloon? cool! go ahead and rape our network"
[23:21] <MLow> ive got my radio on aprs freq, and it's almost constant packets :(
[23:21] <Darkside> MLow: yeah that could be an issue
[23:21] <fsphil> MLow, I had mine on for 4 weeks -- I received about 20 packets :)
[23:21] <Darkside> your packets will get clobbered by high power local packets
[23:21] <MLow> ive got about 80mi reach with this antenna
[23:22] <Darkside> nigelvh_: what ATV gear are you flying?
[23:22] <fsphil> well my colinear only gets about half that
[23:22] <fsphil> it's about 80m asl
[23:22] <Darkside> we're gearing up for 23cm ATV, since we don't have enough spectrum free to do it on 70cm
[23:22] <MLow> im on a hill
[23:23] <nigelvh_> We fly a videolynx vm-70x on each balloon, set at about 1-2W
[23:23] <fsphil> there's some interesting DATV work being done now, have you considered that Darkside?
[23:23] <Darkside> nigelvh_: that one is 70cm i guess?
[23:23] <nigelvh_> Yes.
[23:23] <Darkside> yeah damn
[23:23] <Darkside> we don't have 420-430 in australia anymore
[23:24] <nigelvh_> Yeah, here in washington, we have to worry about line-a with canada, but our flight area is below, so we have the whole 420-450 band open.
[23:24] <Darkside> we could probably do it in 440-450
[23:24] <Darkside> we already have transmitters for 23cm though, just need more gain on the ground
[23:26] <Darkside> fsphil: doing ATV is painful enough
[23:26] <Darkside> you need linear amplifiers
[23:26] <nigelvh_> The local (terrestrial) ATV group repeater comes out on 23cm. So I've got receiving equipment there, but for the balloons we already had large antennas and preamps and whatnot, feeding into a TV/VCR and it works pretty good.
[23:26] <Darkside> which means lots and lots of excess heat
[23:26] <Darkside> our 1W 23cm ATV transmitters get so hot we're going to need to put some decent heatsinking on the payloads
[23:26] <fsphil> I'm not sure how robust dvb would be to fading
[23:27] <nigelvh_> Not much. Most digital ATV systems simply cut out if you lose too much signal.
[23:27] <Darkside> fsphil: also DVB = way more complex
[23:27] <Darkside> yeah
[23:27] <fsphil> definitely
[23:27] <Darkside> with analog TV at least you'll see black and white with a low signal
[23:27] <nigelvh_> Exactly.
[23:27] <Darkside> to get colour we worked out that we'd need >25dBi gain on the ground
[23:27] <fsphil> any timescale for the atv launch ?
[23:27] <Darkside> and thats within a reasonably small footprint
[23:28] <Darkside> fsphil: ours?
[23:28] <Darkside> fsphil: no idea at the moment. we haven't had a chance to do any decent experimental payloads yet
[23:28] <fsphil> cause I'll definitely stay up to watch it if you can stream it
[23:28] <Darkside> yeah we would be streaming :p
[23:28] <Darkside> we'd make sure of that
[23:29] <nigelvh_> We stream our ATV nets, but we don't have solid enough internet to stream the ATV on the balloons.
[23:29] <Darkside> yeah this is going to be our problem too
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[23:29] <Darkside> we'll probably have to fly ATV on a flight which doesn't go so far
[23:29] <Darkside> so we can have the ATV ground station at somewhere with ADSL
[23:30] <Darkside> else yes, we'd have to try and stream via 3g, which is painful
[23:30] <nigelvh_> We generally just tape the flight and then upload it to a server somewhere.
[23:30] <Darkside> mm
[23:30] <nigelvh_> Last year we got a system to something like 130,000'
[23:30] <Darkside> noice
[23:31] <fsphil> *googles*
[23:31] <Darkside> but if you're going to tape it and upload layeter, you may as well just stick a proper video camera on the payload
[23:31] <fsphil> very nice
[23:31] <Darkside> we use GoPro HD Heros on most of our flights - 1080p video in 80g
[23:32] <nigelvh_> Yes, in theory a video camera would work just as well. But it's a class for students, so we try to give them live views of the data and the images.
[23:32] <Darkside> yea ok
[23:32] <Darkside> we don't do that (yet)
[23:33] <nigelvh_> Yeah, the idea is that myself and a few others provide the telemetry systems, and the students are taught very basic electronics, and create little science payloads. Then our systems get their data down.
[23:33] <fsphil> good arrangement
[23:34] <fsphil> do any of them do their own downlink?
[23:34] <nigelvh_> Very rarely. Back when I took the class I did, of which a later revision of my design became one of the telemetry systems.
[23:35] <fsphil> I'd have been pretty chuffed if any of my classes involved HAB'ing :)
[23:36] <nigelvh_> We have had students doing radio RECIEVING experiements though.
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[23:36] <Darkside> nigelvh_: what is your main downlink
[23:37] <nigelvh_> We have ATV on 70cm, a voice downlink on 900MHz so the students can hear their values (albeit slowly), and then the faster digital link (my system) which used to also be on 70cm doing 80baud RTTY, but now (obviously) I'm working on transitioning to packet on 2m.
[23:38] <Darkside> cool
[23:38] <Darkside> so you use TTS on the 900mhz downlink?
[23:39] <nigelvh_> Yes. there's a voice synthesizer chip on that system which reads out the sensor values, and after a round of reading them all out, dumps the values using DTMF tones for easier processing.
[23:40] <Darkside> haha cool
[23:40] <Darkside> so is that an FM downlink?
[23:40] <nigelvh_> Yes.
[23:40] <Darkside> what power?
[23:40] <nigelvh_> I think that system runs at about 300mw
[23:40] <Darkside> (not that it really matters)
[23:40] <Darkside> mm ok
[23:40] <Darkside> we've found our 300mW HX1 APRS stuff works brilliantly
[23:41] Action: fsphil goes to bed in a huff :p
[23:41] <nigelvh_> As a note, there are primarily three of us, each handling a different system. Mike handles the 900MHz voice system, Bob handles the ATV system, and I handle the digital data system.
[23:41] <Darkside> cool
[23:41] <Darkside> nigelvh_: in the UK they are limited to ISM bands and 10mW in the air
[23:41] <nigelvh_> My 70cm transmitters that I've used in previous years generally put out 300-500mw
[23:42] <Darkside> jesus christ
[23:42] <Darkside> really?
[23:42] <nigelvh_> fsphil was mentioning that to me earlier.
[23:42] <Darkside> 500mW!!!!!
[23:42] <Darkside> you don't need that for RTTY :P
[23:42] <fsphil> lol
[23:42] <fsphil> you do if you're doing 9600 baud :)
[23:42] <fsphil> oh that would be sweet
[23:42] <nigelvh_> Yeah, but it's what was available and cheap. We were picking them up for 10 bucks.
[23:42] <Darkside> ahh ok
[23:43] <Darkside> fsphil: we've been considering dropping one of our kenwood handhelds into a payload
[23:43] <nigelvh_> Also, not all of them actually got there. Depending on the module, you'd probably get somewhere between 300 and 500mw
[23:43] <Darkside> and setting it into digipeater mode
[23:43] <fsphil> they've a digipeater built in?
[23:43] <Darkside> yep
[23:43] <fsphil> nice
[23:43] <Darkside> Kenwood TH-D72A
[23:43] <Darkside> probably the most advanced dual-bander handheld you can buy at the moment
[23:44] <fsphil> I was pondering using the Baofeng as a 144.800 receiver, and downlinking the packets over 300 baud rtty
[23:44] <nigelvh_> Last year I tried doing a cross band voice repeater on one of our balloons, set up a 2m receiver, and fed the audio into the audio channel of the ATV module.
[23:44] <nigelvh_> That totally failed however.
[23:44] <Darkside> heh
[23:44] <Darkside> we've done cross-band repeaters
[23:44] <Darkside> 2m uplink, 70cm down
[23:45] <nigelvh_> Yeah, it was kinda thrown together last minute, and we had some RFI issues and it didn't work at all. But it was a neat idea.
[23:45] <Darkside> yeah we think we were getting input overloading on the uplink frequency
[23:46] <Darkside> but we're not sure - we didn't have a way of measuring RSSI
[23:46] <nigelvh_> Yeah, it's hard to diagnose things at 100,000'
[23:46] <Darkside> hehe
[23:46] <Darkside> well next flight we'll have a 70cm receiver which does RSSI measurements
[23:47] <Darkside> so we're going to send back down RSSI values in the downlinked telemetry to see whats going on
[23:47] <Darkside> and to see if we need to put some better filters on the inputs
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[23:47] <nigelvh_> That sounds like a cool idea.
[23:47] <Darkside> nigelvh_: RFM22B module
[23:47] <Darkside> daveake_: is flying one this weekend
[23:47] <Darkside> i'm hoping it'll prove to be a reliable uplink
[23:47] <daveake_> hopefully
[23:48] <daveake_> This morning's prediction was wet; latest is dry
[23:48] <Darkside> damn
[23:48] <Darkside> this is why we need reliable cutdown devices
[23:48] <Darkside> which is what i'm hoping to make
[23:48] <nigelvh_> I've seen those modules. Never used one though.
[23:48] <Darkside> RFM22B, AVR, and a FET
[23:48] <daveake_> I'll probably not decide till Sat morning
[23:49] <daveake_> Cutdown wouldn't help much in this case ... climb is southerly, then goes east in the jet stream, then south as it falls. Plenty of space to the east; water to the south
[23:50] <Darkside> daveake_: mmm
[23:50] <daveake_> cutdown would need to hit pretty low (I'd guess 15km)
[23:50] <Darkside> mm
[23:50] <Darkside> well the plan is to have a manual cutdown
[23:51] <daveake_> So I'm looking at a quickish ascent and descent
[23:51] <Darkside> so you transmit up a OOK packet via a ham radio, SSB mode and feed in audio from a laptop
[23:51] <daveake_> At the mo 6m/s each would be fairly comfortably inland
[23:51] <Darkside> i really want to find some kind of valve i can put in the neck of the balloon to release cas
[23:51] <Darkside> gas
[23:51] <daveake_> Yeah that could help for this one.
[23:51] <Darkside> so we can put the balloon into a float, and float it over obstacles, like big national parks
[23:52] <daveake_> Send it up quick then slow down the ascent after it turns. The east bit is slightly northerly too so staying at high levels would help a bit
[23:52] <nigelvh_> We don't have to worry about that too much. All farmland where we launch. Just got to avoid being shot with the UofW stickers on the vans in WSU country.
[23:52] <Darkside> heh
[23:53] <Darkside> nigelvh_: i'm in australia, we have a lot of areas with no roads
[23:53] <Darkside> and deserts and stuff
[23:53] <daveake_> I could put in an automatic cutdown - I have the bits and the firmware - but no point really. Can't do a manul one.
[23:53] <Darkside> we have some really painful national parks in our main landing zone
[23:53] <nigelvh_> They won't let you go retrieve them in there?
[23:54] <Darkside> oh, we can go retreive them, sure
[23:54] <nigelvh_> Just no driving?
[23:54] <Darkside> we could probably do that too
[23:54] <daveake_> Never too far from a road here. unless you're at sea.
[23:54] <Darkside> its just areas 40km across with no roads
[23:54] <daveake_> Eeek
[23:54] <Darkside> we know the guy that manages those national parks
[23:55] <nigelvh_> Where you're at is probably a bit bumpier, but we launch our rockets down in the black rock desert in nevada.
[23:55] <Darkside> we've had him drive us in once to retreive a payload
[23:55] <Darkside> oh it isnt that bumpy
[23:55] <nigelvh_> Similarly blank, but totally flat, so we can cruise.
[23:55] <Darkside> http://g.co/maps/vnmjp
[23:55] <Darkside> those areas
[23:55] <Darkside> big desert and murray dunset conservation parks
[23:56] <Darkside> also billiatt
[23:56] <Darkside> and ngarkat
[23:56] <Darkside> both mostly un-drivable
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[23:57] <nigelvh_> http://g.co/maps/qbgrt
[23:57] <nigelvh_> Yeah, this is totally flat
[23:57] <Darkside> we've had payload land in both ngarkat and billiatt before, we don't normally launch if it looks like its going to land anywhere near the otehr two
[23:57] <nigelvh_> Wanna attempt a land speed record in a subaru out there? Go for it.
[23:58] <Darkside> haha
[23:58] <Darkside> oh wow, burning man
[23:58] <Darkside> hey i can see the monorail
[23:58] <nigelvh_> Exactly. We aren't there at the same time though
[23:58] <nigelvh_> We've got the place pretty much to ourselves when we're out there.
[23:58] <Darkside> hehe
[23:58] <Darkside> so i guess your balloons mostly go up and down again?
[23:59] <Darkside> ours kind of go up, then a long way east
[00:00] --- Fri Feb 3 2012