highaltitude.log.20120131

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[02:37] <MLow> ordered a gps, hx1, and chute from http://www.rocketchutes.com/, will be making a blog soon to document my journey
[02:37] <MLow> well, the hx1 from lemosint, gps from argentdata
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[02:39] <Darkside> MLow: doing APRS with the HX1?
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[02:59] <MLow> Darkside: yes
[02:59] <MLow> 144.390 tho for USA
[02:59] <Darkside> MLow: yep
[02:59] <Darkside> using the trackuino code i guess?
[02:59] <Darkside> or something else
[02:59] <MLow> kinda
[02:59] <MLow> it's morphed into something strange in my hands
[02:59] <Darkside> we have our own fork of thr trackuino code
[02:59] <MLow> nice
[02:59] <Darkside> which actually supports telemetry packets
[03:00] <Darkside> along with other stuff
[03:00] <MLow> telemetry besides temps and stuff?
[03:00] <Darkside> and also supports our ublox gps stuff
[03:00] <Darkside> i mean it supports actual telemetry packets
[03:00] <Darkside> not just putting stuff into the comments
[03:00] <MLow> didn't know you were allowed to do that
[03:00] <Darkside> its part of the APRS spec
[03:01] <MLow> im going with 144.390 simply for tracking, if i do any other data than gps it will be with another radio
[03:01] <Darkside> http://code.google.com/p/project-horus/source/browse/#svn%2Ftrunk%2Ftrackuino
[03:01] <Darkside> the telemetry stuff is real nice though
[03:01] <Darkside> it shows up on aprs.fi nicely
[03:01] <MLow> how so?
[03:01] <Darkside> and aprs.fi has support for a compressed telemetry format in the comment field too
[03:01] <MLow> whats the constructed sentence look like
[03:01] <Darkside> hold on, i'll find ane xample
[03:02] <MLow> So you run everything on one atmega?
[03:02] <MLow> seems, risky
[03:02] <Darkside> http://aprs.fi/telemetry/?call=VK5CP-8&date_start=2012-01-29+03%3A02%3A13&date_end=2012-01-31+03%3A02%3A13
[03:03] <Darkside> MLow: the APRS payload is a separate payload from our primary telemetry, which is the standard RTTY downlink
[03:03] <Darkside> APRS is more for fun than anything else
[03:03] <Darkside> plus we can navigte to the payloads using our handhelds :D
[03:04] <Darkside> <3 my Kenwood TH-D72
[03:05] <MLow> VK5CP-8>S0R9P4,WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1,qAR,VK5MW-1:`@Q"l!`>/'"5$}RR1981 vk5cp@arrl.net|0/%R(%|!wBT!|3
[03:05] <MLow> now that looks compressed
[03:06] <Darkside> yeah that isnt one of our payloads
[03:06] <Darkside> thats a tinytrak or something
[03:06] <Darkside> our payloads use uncompressed telemetry strings
[03:06] <Darkside> its all in http://code.google.com/p/project-horus/source/browse/trunk/trackuino/aprs.cpp
[03:07] <Darkside> you send out a definition message, which tells the network how to decode your telemetry packets
[03:07] <Darkside> static uint8_t telem_param[] PROGMEM = ":VK5ZM-11 :PARAM.Battery,ITemp,Etemp,,,Chut,,,,,,,\0";
[03:07] <Darkside> static uint8_t telem_units[] PROGMEM = ":VK5ZM-11 :UNIT.V,degC,degC,,,Open,,,,,,,\0";
[03:07] <Darkside> static uint8_t telem_coeff[] PROGMEM = ":VK5ZM-11 :EQNS.0,0.0129,0,0,1,-128,0,1,-128,0,0,0,0,0,0\0";
[03:07] <Darkside> for example
[03:08] <Darkside> that defines battery, internal and external temprature, and tells the network what the units are, and the coefficients of a polynomial which are applied to the telemetry values you receive to convert it to something human readable
[03:08] <Darkside> for example, we instruct the network to subtract 128 from the temperature values. This is because all telemetry packets have to be 8-bit unsigned numbers.
[03:08] <Darkside> i mean, all telemetry parameters
[03:09] <MLow> pretty complicated
[03:10] <MLow> whats the aprs radio?
[03:10] <Darkside> in our payload?
[03:10] <Darkside> a HX1 :-)
[03:10] <Darkside> i've got a picture somewhere, hold on
[03:10] <MLow> its tiny i know
[03:11] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/tvAhn.jpg
[03:11] <Darkside> thats the entire aprs payload
[03:11] <Darkside> that goes inside a foam box, with a different antenna
[03:11] <Darkside> runs off 2xAAs, with a 30 second beacon rate it lasts for a good day or two
[03:12] <Darkside> you can't see the transmitter in that picture, its on the back of the main PCB
[03:12] <MLow> you send that to batchpcb or something?
[03:13] <Darkside> seeedstudio
[03:13] <Darkside> $10 for 10 boards
[03:13] <MLow> i make my own
[03:13] <Darkside> you can do 0.1mm clearance double sided pcbs with vias?
[03:13] <Darkside> plated vias*
[03:13] <Darkside> (tbh that board only needs 0.3mm clearance)
[03:14] <MLow> ive gone down to 12mils
[03:14] <Darkside> nice
[03:14] <MLow> so basically .3mm
[03:14] <Darkside> i could certainly work with that
[03:14] <Darkside> yeah
[03:15] <MLow> according to google lol
[03:15] <Darkside> yep, exactly what i did :P
[03:15] <Darkside> anyway, i'm not 100%, but i think that payload is one of the smallest APRS trackers out there
[03:15] <MLow> challenge accepted
[03:15] <Darkside> well the limit is really the transmitter board
[03:16] <Darkside> that is, if you use the HX1
[03:16] <MLow> anyways what i wanted to know mainly was the range of the hx1
[03:16] <Darkside> i've seen designs using an analog devices FSK transmitter, and they do some really dodgy hacks to make it transmit AFSK
[03:16] <Darkside> MLow: line of sight
[03:16] <Darkside> pretty much
[03:16] <MLow> right
[03:16] <Darkside> http://aprs.fi/?call=vk5zm-11 take a look at the points on that path
[03:17] <MLow> im just wondering how close to follow
[03:17] <MLow> i guess right under it or slightly ahead
[03:17] <MLow> those are some clean looking points
[03:17] <Darkside> we don't actually follow ours
[03:17] <Darkside> we drive to the landing site :P
[03:17] <Darkside> and wait for it to come to us
[03:18] <MLow> haha
[03:18] <MLow> wheres the fun in that
[03:19] <Darkside> and i'm serious about that. we have our own trackign software which does live predictions throughout the flight
[03:19] <Darkside> and we go to where it predicts the landing
[03:19] <MLow> it looks like the last packet was 599ft, that must have been picked up by a mobile igate?
[03:19] <Darkside> nope
[03:20] <Darkside> it was digipeated by a repeater on a hill about 100km away
[03:20] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/CArgH.jpg <-- theres an example of our in-car tracking stuff, which works off the RTTY telemetry
[03:20] <MLow> wow
[03:21] <MLow> wow @ both
[03:21] <Darkside> the antenna on the payload is a comet dual band whip antenna, which 4 ground radials (which aren't quite 1/4 wave, but oh well)
[03:21] <Darkside> so you can see in that images case, we were well ahead of the payload. in fact we were waiting around the landing area for about 20 minutes
[03:22] <Darkside> of course the landing zone moves around a bit, but we managed to get (shaky) video of the payload landing
[03:22] <MLow> awesome
[03:22] <Darkside> we've got video of payload landing 3 times now i think
[03:22] <MLow> yeah i think the trackuino guys have an android predictor that works live
[03:22] <Darkside> no wait, 4
[03:23] <Darkside> our data updates a hell of a lot more than any aprs paylod though :P
[03:23] <Darkside> approx 4 second updates
[03:23] <Darkside> do that on the APRS network and you'll get in trouble
[03:23] <Darkside> or piss someone off
[03:24] <MLow> im using a 2m rig only so
[03:24] <Darkside> FM only i guess
[03:24] <MLow> yeah
[03:24] <Darkside> mmm
[03:24] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/qWdgW.jpg
[03:24] <MLow> pretty tight budget
[03:24] <Darkside> theres all teh tracking software
[03:24] <Darkside> on another flight that didn't go so well
[03:25] <MLow> water landing?
[03:25] <Darkside> but you can see dl-fldigi, the oziplotter software which does some data parsing, does the predictions, and plots onto oziexplorer
[03:25] <Darkside> yep
[03:25] <Darkside> didn't get that one back
[03:25] <Darkside> but you can also see the fast position update rate
[03:25] <MLow> pretty quick rate of descent too
[03:26] <Darkside> ahh thats normal
[03:26] <Darkside> also we didn't have a parachute
[03:26] <Darkside> http://vimeo.com/34905817 <-- our standard instroduction video
[03:26] <Darkside> introduction
[03:28] <Darkside> has footage of launches, tracking, landing, recovery
[03:28] <Darkside> etc
[03:28] <MLow> vimeo is pretty slow here tho
[03:28] <MLow> gotta pause it and let it buffer :P
[03:28] <Darkside> hehe
[03:28] <Darkside> watch in HD if you can
[03:30] <MLow> 3 years later ya
[03:30] <MLow> seriously it's got like 10 seconds buffered, ill check it out later lol
[03:30] <Darkside> :P
[03:30] <Darkside> hehe ok
[03:30] <Darkside> anyway, i don't know about relying on APRS from below the payload
[03:30] <Darkside> with 300mW output power i think you should be ok though
[03:31] <MLow> Yeah I may make an amp
[03:31] <Darkside> just use a 1/4 wave whip, not anything with gain
[03:31] <Darkside> nah, you won't need it
[03:31] <SpeedEvil> In general, antenna nullls can be an issue when the payload is high up, and overhead
[03:31] <MLow> how come?
[03:31] <SpeedEvil> especially with a vertical quarter wave
[03:31] <MLow> yeah
[03:31] <Darkside> MLow: well, you'll probably be using a 1/4 wave antenna on the payload
[03:31] <SpeedEvil> As you may have - say - -15dB on each antenna
[03:31] <Darkside> or some kind of vertical + ground plane
[03:32] <MLow> i was thinking a dipole each element parallel to earth
[03:32] <Darkside> mm that could work
[03:32] <MLow> coat hanger probably
[03:32] <Darkside> but then you're going to get polarisation loss problems
[03:33] <SpeedEvil> Indeed
[03:33] <Darkside> i really would suggest just using some kind of whip antenna + a ground plane
[03:33] <Darkside> i'm trying to find a good pic of what we use for our one...
[03:33] <MLow> hm
[03:35] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/mP1Il.jpg
[03:35] <Darkside> theres ours
[03:35] <Darkside> thats a small comet flexible whip antenna, with some ground radials
[03:35] <Darkside> diamond also make a similar antenna
[03:35] <Darkside> the good thing about those is they don't break when you hit the ground
[03:35] <Darkside> they just bend
[03:36] <MLow> seems pretty simple to make
[03:36] <Darkside> yeah its not too hard
[03:36] <MLow> i've got a 1/2 wave up in the attic i hit 80mi out
[03:37] <Darkside> see what you can make up
[03:37] <Darkside> but i would reccomend a vertical antenna
[03:37] <Darkside> that way you'll hit igates and digis further out
[03:37] <Darkside> and you can then just track it on aprs.fi
[03:37] <Darkside> you're in the US, you have decent phone coverage right? :P
[03:37] <MLow> true
[03:37] <MLow> well..
[03:37] <Darkside> hehe
[03:37] <MLow> thats why i have the 2m rig in the car
[03:37] <Darkside> the other point there is if it hits a digi, you'll hear the digipeated packet in your car
[03:38] <Darkside> even if you don't hear the packet from the payload directly (which you probably will anyway)
[03:38] <MLow> ive got a big 1/2 wave whip on the car lol
[03:38] <MLow> looks funny on my tiny kia but i like it
[03:39] <Darkside> oh man
[03:39] <Darkside> i should find the pic of my 151MHz 1/4 wave ground plane...
[03:39] <Darkside> that was hillarious
[03:39] <MLow> yeah ive got a 1/2 wave ground plane in the attic
[03:39] <MLow> 4 radials
[03:39] <Darkside> http://projecthorus.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/DSC_2710.jpg
[03:39] <Darkside> that thing was like death from above
[03:40] <MLow> hehe
[03:40] <Darkside> also the radials all broke off on landing :P
[03:40] <MLow> the director just firmly planted the payload?
[03:40] <Darkside> not quite
[03:40] <Darkside> it got dragged along a field for about 20m i think
[03:41] <MLow> wow
[03:42] <MLow> also, whos that strapping young lad in the photo
[03:42] <Darkside> thats normal
[03:42] <Darkside> <--
[03:42] <MLow> ah
[03:42] <Darkside> lol
[03:42] <MLow> i hate young smart people >:|
[03:42] <MLow> lol makes me feel old
[03:42] <Darkside> its very rare to find photos from our launches with me in them
[03:43] <Darkside> i'm usually the one behind the camera
[03:43] <MLow> i make sure film evidence of my existence is scarce
[03:44] <Darkside> :P
[03:45] <MLow> are y'all funded by a sponsor or what just curious
[03:45] <SpeedEvil> Generally not
[03:45] <SpeedEvil> ~100-200 or so per launch.
[03:45] <Darkside> we have dome commercial launches
[03:45] <Darkside> done*
[03:45] <SpeedEvil> Depending on if you get the payload back
[03:45] <Darkside> but mostly its self funded
[03:45] <SpeedEvil> And chase-costs
[03:45] <Darkside> haha yes
[03:45] <MLow> i am strongly considering starting a kickstarter project, my wage sucks
[03:46] <SpeedEvil> Chase costs can be 20 miles of driving, or 2000.
[03:46] <Darkside> i've spent $1500 on payload development so far
[03:46] <SpeedEvil> And boat hire.
[03:46] <Darkside> designing and refining the micronut payload
[03:46] <Darkside> haha
[03:46] <Darkside> we haven't had to do boat hire yet...
[03:46] <Darkside> but we do have a *very* good track record of getting our payloads back again
[03:46] <MLow> tree climber hiring
[03:47] <Darkside> we've had payloads draped across power lines...
[03:48] <Darkside> luckily were weren't flying HF on that flight - we would have shorted the lines
[03:48] <MLow> it's taken me about a year to save up for this, and im at the 400$ mark
[03:48] <MLow> minimum wage does not allot for many hobbies
[03:48] <Darkside> that'll just about cover the launch costs
[03:49] <MLow> well i figure i should build something to launch first
[03:49] <Darkside> that may cost more :P
[03:49] <Darkside> i assume you're a ham radio operator, right?
[03:49] <Darkside> oh yeah, of course you are
[03:49] <Darkside> :P
[03:49] <MLow> yeah expert
[03:50] <Darkside> cool
[03:50] <MLow> not literally expert
[03:50] <Darkside> well in that case you'll want to get the APRS payload working asap
[03:50] <Darkside> then go from there
[03:50] <MLow> my license is technitian, but im an expert at being a technitian
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[03:50] <Darkside> tech class licenses can use APRS in the Us?
[03:50] <Darkside> US*
[03:51] <MLow> tech gets everything above 30
[03:51] <Darkside> ahh ok
[03:51] <MLow> 30mhz
[03:51] <Darkside> australian equivalent of tech licenses can't do data modes
[03:51] <MLow> last i checked arrl chart
[03:51] <MLow> but that was a while back...
[03:51] <Darkside> though we have access to HF
[03:52] <MLow> http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Hambands_color.pdf
[03:53] <MLow> gps 41$, hx1 53$, trackuino based tnc ~15$
[03:53] <Darkside> $15? really?
[03:53] <Darkside> what gps are you using btw
[03:54] <MLow> well, i make the board
[03:54] <MLow> unless you want to count my time...but it's pretty worthless i assure youy
[03:54] <MLow> argent data high altitude gps
[03:54] <Darkside> pff
[03:54] <Darkside> i find it funny that they sell those like that
[03:54] <Darkside> its probably a ublox module
[03:54] <MLow> its a prolific chip
[03:55] <Darkside> uhh
[03:55] <Darkside> prolific don't make GPSes
[03:55] <MLow> flashed with the OR changed to AND
[03:55] <Darkside> prolific make USB to UART adaptors
[03:55] <Darkside> wtf
[03:55] <Darkside> it is prolific
[03:55] <Darkside> whadya know
[03:55] <Darkside> interesting
[03:56] <MLow> they flash them with a different firmware
[03:56] <MLow> basically just change an if statement
[03:56] <Darkside> we juse use ublox gpses
[03:56] <Darkside> which work without any firmware changes
[03:56] <MLow> yeah ive heard good things about those
[03:56] <Darkside> you can also get the bare gps modules for about $15
[03:56] <MLow> but i also know people who have used the argent data one
[03:57] <Darkside> well, $20
[03:57] <Darkside> no antenna
[03:57] <MLow> perhaps, but then you must account for shipping on both chip + ant
[03:57] <Darkside> i've been using uBlox NEO-6Q modules on my payloads
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[03:57] <Darkside> yeah
[03:57] <Darkside> Upu here is going to be selling breakout boards for them
[03:57] <MLow> $41 shipped is a good deal in my mind
[03:57] <Darkside> mm thats not bad
[03:58] <MLow> comes with a cable, just strip and plug
[03:58] <Darkside> eyah
[03:58] <Darkside> is it 5v or 3.3?
[03:58] <MLow> 232 level output and ttl
[03:58] <MLow> 5v ttl
[03:58] <Darkside> ahh
[03:58] <Darkside> oh well thats not too bad
[03:58] <Darkside> i prefer 3.3v personally
[03:58] <MLow> 5v in my mind being a plus but hey to each their own
[03:58] <Darkside> we found that 3.3v PWM into the HX1 modules gives an almost perfect FM deviation
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[03:59] <MLow> versus 5v or just compared to other modules?
[03:59] <Darkside> we didn't test it at 5v
[03:59] <Darkside> our boart was 3.3v :P
[03:59] <MLow> id imagine a good filter cap fixes any deviation probelms
[03:59] <MLow> for audio avoid ceramic
[03:59] <Darkside> well, the HX1 modules already have an input filter
[04:00] <Darkside> we just feed PWM straight from the AVR into the TXD pin of the module
[04:00] <MLow> hm
[04:00] <Darkside> and the transmitted signal is very clean
[04:00] <MLow> well i will obviously be bread boarding all this and testing setups
[04:00] <Darkside> deviation is 6KHz or something, whatever its meant to be
[04:01] <Darkside> and it has been flight tested... 4 times now i think
[04:01] <Darkside> so yeah, it works pretty well :P
[04:01] <MLow> right right thats not what im saying
[04:01] <MLow> i mean a 5v setup
[04:01] <Darkside> yeah using 5v is fine
[04:01] <Darkside> we mainly use 3.3v because the ublox gps modules use 3.3v
[04:02] <Darkside> and everything else we use supports 3.3v
[04:02] <MLow> im looking at a complete 5v setup
[04:02] <MLow> so i have the same mentality basically
[04:02] <Darkside> yup
[04:02] <MLow> arduino likes 5v at 20mhz i find
[04:02] <Darkside> the HX1 needs a 5v supply
[04:03] <MLow> i can always use a logic level converter they are smt sot package is tiny
[04:03] <MLow> great talk young sir
[04:03] <MLow> i need a smoke break though hehe
[04:06] <Darkside> :P
[04:08] <MLow> too much mental thought need cancer
[04:09] <MLow> well thanks so much for sharing
[04:09] <MLow> i think i will seek some sponsoring by a gas company though
[04:10] <MLow> failing that, a kickstarter page
[04:12] <MLow> and by sponsoring i mean free gas
[04:13] <MLow> woo tracking updated for the hx1 module
[04:14] <MLow> warwich, RI huh..thats far
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[05:54] <MLow> \
[05:54] <Dan-K2VOL> |
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[06:51] <x-f> /
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[06:54] <SamSilver> \\
[07:12] <natrium42> o...k...
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[07:33] Nick change: daveake_ -> daveake
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[08:47] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] uBLOX 6 GPS Modules Proposal"
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[10:12] <daveake> Moaning all
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[10:16] <SamSilver> morning dave
[10:16] <fsphil> good moaning
[10:16] <SamSilver> aahh freach accent goood moaning
[10:17] <SamSilver> freanch
[10:17] <SamSilver> french
[10:17] <daveake> :)
[10:17] <SamSilver> new fingers and more coffee needed
[10:18] <daveake> I have good nose
[10:18] <daveake> MY freebite balloon from Upu has arrived :)
[10:18] <daveake> freebie FFS
[10:19] <daveake> More tea needed
[10:19] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU2zoQ8gV-s
[10:20] <daveake> :)
[10:21] <daveake> Prediction for Saturday cvhanbged but still workable - https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s320x320/400219_10150522562022654_695937653_8776463_1355939341_n.jpg
[10:21] <daveake> 2 typos in one word, Jeez ..
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[10:26] <daveake> Another option I have is to use a smaller payload and bigger balloon ... http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=e249c2f2d85f3c50db8936468709e0e9db288bbd
[10:26] <daveake> Decisions decisions :)
[10:31] <SamSilver> H2 and head for Moscow
[10:32] <costyn> daveake: not sure if you want to have the camera go along?
[10:35] <daveake> 2nd one *is* with a camera ... I'm putting together a little payload with 1 camera
[10:35] <costyn> ah ok
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[10:36] <daveake> Can't fly past London without taking some pics :)
[10:36] <costyn> Indeed
[10:37] <daveake> SamSilver Don't have H2 yet, but I spoke to BOC yesterday and I'll get an account set up soon
[10:38] <SamSilver> kewl
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[10:39] <daveake> costyn Dunno if you saw it yesterday evening but this is for the small camera payload - http://imgur.com/0uOtM
[10:39] <costyn> daveake: heh, no I missed it... it's Upu-tastic pink!
[10:40] <daveake> Exactly :)
[10:40] <daveake> Second attempt -- I put the hold in the wrong place first time :p
[10:40] <daveake> hole
[10:49] <fsphil> is this what caffeine does to people? :)
[10:52] <daveake> :-). Actually they're de-caf. Maybe that's where I'm going wrong.
[10:53] <daveake> Nearly missed this ... Upu had the address label made out to "Dave Akerman. DASA" :)
[10:54] Action: daveake awaits fsphil to point out it should be DANSA :)
[10:55] <daveake> Or the S is for Stratospheric
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[11:05] <Upu> haha
[11:12] <fsphil> that's it
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[11:14] <hibby> morning dan. Early for you, isn't it?
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[11:17] <fsphil> yep :)
[11:18] <cuddykid> morning Will :)
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[11:22] <WillDuckworth> morning :)
[11:24] <Upu> morning
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[11:29] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[11:33] <cuddykid> WillDuckworth: any plans for launch date?
[11:34] <Lunar_Lander> hello cuddykid
[11:35] <cuddykid> Hi Lunar_Lander :)
[11:36] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
[11:38] <cuddykid> good thanks, apart from radio frustrations! lol wbu?
[11:39] <Lunar_Lander> I'm OK, thanks
[11:40] <Lunar_Lander> still trying to understand TinyGPS
[11:40] <cuddykid> it's a mystery!
[11:40] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[11:40] <Lunar_Lander> but I need to get it
[11:41] <Lunar_Lander> did you use that yourself too?
[11:43] <cuddykid> yep
[11:43] <Lunar_Lander> that is good
[11:43] <Lunar_Lander> but you didn't use arduino IIRC, right?
[11:44] <cuddykid> used arduino :)
[11:46] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[11:46] <Lunar_Lander> uno or mega?
[11:47] <cuddykid> uno/duemilanove
[11:48] <fsphil> tinygps is complex code, though it hides it behind a very simple interface
[11:48] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[11:48] <Lunar_Lander> what my question also would be
[11:49] <fsphil> overly complex perhaps, although it does it in such a way that it uses very little memory
[11:49] <Lunar_Lander> could the data from the GPS both be transmitted and logged?
[11:49] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[11:49] <fsphil> you can do whatever you want with the data
[11:49] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[11:50] <cuddykid> great - £30 free coming my way :)
[11:50] <Lunar_Lander> xD how's that?
[11:50] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil: sorry for being so idiot
[11:51] <fsphil> lol
[11:51] <Lunar_Lander> :(
[11:51] <fsphil> Lunar_Lander, huh?
[11:51] <Lunar_Lander> yea that I am still asking stupid questions about getting the GPS integrated
[11:51] <cuddykid> a few months ago there was a loop hole via a cash back website - sign up to one of the online gambling websites spend £10 and get £40 cash back - it's now tracked :P &. and I guess they were expecting me to become hooked - which I haven't become lol
[11:52] <cuddykid> going to hook up my other ntx2 now :)
[11:53] <cuddykid> my desk is such a mess
[11:53] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[11:54] <Lunar_Lander> mine too
[11:54] <fsphil> there must be a solution to that
[11:54] <Lunar_Lander> to GPS and messy desk?
[11:54] <fsphil> both :)
[11:54] <cuddykid> lol
[11:54] <fsphil> my desk is awful
[11:55] <staylo> I think mine's quite nice, haven't seen it in years though
[11:55] <cuddykid> mine never used to be as I've been keeping it all in a box and working on each bit separately, but now it's come to final testing - every things out :P
[11:55] <fsphil> sounds familiar staylo
[11:59] <Lunar_Lander> well
[11:59] <Lunar_Lander> home time now :)
[11:59] <Lunar_Lander> cu later maybe
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[12:00] <fsphil> home time already... *dreams
[12:00] <fsphil> *
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[12:07] <daveake> Canon A490 10g under spec, that's good :-)
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[12:07] <daveake> Every bit helps :)
[12:08] <fsphil> oh reminds me, got a new a560
[12:08] <fsphil> £20
[12:08] <daveake> Nice price
[12:09] <fsphil> came with battery and SD card -- no printer sadly :)
[12:09] <daveake> lol
[12:09] <daveake> That's on ebay now :)
[12:09] <daveake> A560 - a podgy 165g though ;)
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[12:12] <cuddykid> breadboarded the other ntx2, testing time
[12:14] <daveake> I got a Tesco SIM card with 5000 "free" texts ... do you think that'll be enough for the flight? ;-)
[12:14] <cuddykid> hearing load and clear
[12:14] <cuddykid> daveake: that's what I went with :P
[12:14] <daveake> cloud2 ditched with £20 credit on it :(
[12:17] <cuddykid> garbage being decoded from other ntx2 - must be a problem with either radio (Receiving) or comp
[12:17] <cuddykid> USB is the right mode?
[12:26] <cuddykid> daveake, I've done an audio recording of the radio speaker using iPhone's microphone - would you be able to pass it through your end? http://dl.dropbox.com/u/901991/memo.wav thanks :D
[12:26] <daveake> Pass it through my end, eh? Kinky ...
[12:27] <daveake> Very short strings - is that right?
[12:27] <cuddykid> lol
[12:27] <cuddykid> it's just "Hello world"
[12:27] <cuddykid> repeated every second
[12:27] <cuddykid> this time with the new ntx2
[12:28] <daveake> OK that's about the right length then
[12:32] <cuddykid> does it matter whether it's LSB or USB? tried both and neither work
[12:33] <cuddykid> YESSSSSS!
[12:33] <cuddykid> I'm getting HELLO WORLD!
[12:33] <cuddykid> never been so happy to hear rtty lol
[12:33] <cuddykid> marvellous :D
[12:34] <daveake> Yes that decodes. You need to turn Rv on in dlfldigi
[12:35] <cuddykid> daveake: it must have something to do with LSB/USB - the recording I sent you was USB, just tried LSB and tuned up and it worked (without rv)
[12:36] <cuddykid> switched to the other ntx2 and now decodes on LSB with rv
[12:37] <daveake> cool
[12:37] <cuddykid> daveake: is it usually LSB?
[12:37] <daveake> If you switch your 2 o/ps over (do it in code) that drive the NTX2, then you can switch Rv off. Saves all of us remembering to switch it on for you :p
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[12:37] <fsphil> lsb with rv is basically usb
[12:38] <daveake> Usuablly USB
[12:38] <cuddykid> oh, I'll have a play then - maybe I was too low - I was listening in ~434.072 ish
[12:38] <cuddykid> now LSB ~434.075 exactly
[12:38] <fsphil> you do need to retune when switching between usb and lsb on the radio
[12:39] <fsphil> lsb lets you hear the 3khz below the dial frequency, and with usb it's the 3khz above the dial frequency
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[12:39] <cuddykid> working now with USB and no rv
[12:40] <fsphil> perfect
[12:40] <cuddykid> hmm - all very odd lol, not sure why it's working today and not yesterday
[12:41] <fsphil> it's possible you where not tuned correctly?
[12:41] <cuddykid> nope, exactly the same frequency etc today :S
[12:41] <daveake> When the receiver is close you can tune in wrongly and still get something, but it sounds wrong and won't work
[12:41] <fsphil> the frequency of the ntx2 will vaery
[12:41] <fsphil> vary
[12:42] <daveake> You just need to retune for a "clean" sounding signal
[12:42] <cuddykid> currently I'm 434.071 and yesterday I was the same
[12:42] <cuddykid> yesterday sounded exactly like todays though :S
[12:42] <cuddykid> (when listening via radio speaker)
[12:45] <cuddykid> at least I know it's not the ntx2 or software
[12:45] <daveake> Oh, balls
[12:45] <daveake> polystyrene ones
[12:45] <cuddykid> lol
[12:45] <daveake> Every day brings more HAB gooies, and more expenditure :p
[12:45] <cuddykid> they're a real nuisance
[12:45] <daveake> goodies even
[12:46] <cuddykid> daveake: what does toady bring?
[12:46] <daveake> No, 100mm ones to make a payload from
[12:46] <daveake> ^^
[12:46] <cuddykid> ahh, they're alright then!
[12:46] <daveake> And some soldering iron bits to replace the one I broke
[12:46] <fsphil> how'd you break a soldering tip?
[12:46] <cuddykid> right - here we go again, just uploaded new code to board - not touched any thing to do with radio setup, clear lines being seen again on waterfall but just garbage@
[12:47] <daveake> Thin one. Wore it away till it bent
[12:47] <cuddykid> garbage galore :@ !
[12:48] <cuddykid> what is going on?!?!? lol
[12:48] <daveake> And I may have dropped it on the floor a few times :p
[12:48] <fsphil> haha, SD card that came with A560 is full of viruses
[12:48] <daveake> !!
[12:48] <daveake> Virus in Spaaaaaaaaaaace :p
[12:50] <fsphil> sadly it's not called Andromeda
[12:50] <daveake> :(
[12:50] <cuddykid> went back to the other code and there is "Hello World"
[12:50] <fsphil> "VBS/Sasan-Fam"
[12:50] <cuddykid> :S
[12:50] <fsphil> virus written in visual basic
[12:50] <fsphil> that's just sad
[12:50] <daveake> Deary me
[12:54] <cuddykid> ahh, that's interesting - it appears as though my code was missing a 2nd stop bit...
[12:54] <cuddykid> YES!
[12:54] <cuddykid> :D
[12:54] <cuddykid> that was it
[12:54] <cuddykid> lol
[12:55] <cuddykid> some how I deleted a 2nd stop bit :(
[12:55] <daveake> That won't help. You said b4 it was 1.5 stop bits?
[12:55] <cuddykid> yeah, but, now it decodes properly
[12:55] <cuddykid> it is 1.5 stop bits
[12:56] <daveake> So you were sending 1.5 then you were sending 1?
[12:56] <cuddykid> I believe so
[12:56] <daveake> k
[12:56] <cuddykid> somehow I must have accidentally deleted the line rtty_txbit (1);
[12:57] <daveake> It#s always good to see what changed after something breaks :)
[12:57] <cuddykid> after all that!
[12:57] <cuddykid> deary me
[12:57] <cuddykid> yay - all back to normal :D
[12:58] <daveake> And the bit where you said you went back to working code but it still didn't work?
[12:58] <cuddykid> yeah, now that is odd as the other code DID have the 2nd line in :S
[12:58] <cuddykid> and that code started working this morning whereas it didn't work yesterday
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[12:59] <daveake> 2 different problems probably. Gets tricky when that happens. Actually it's worth remembering if things don't make sense when you're chasing a problem - you probably have 2 (or more) to deal with.
[12:59] <cuddykid> yep
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[13:00] <cuddykid> In fact, just looking through all code - right, the one I ran on my old flight only had 1 of those lines (and that worked). The "Hello World" code that I got working this morning had 2 of those lines in. Now it only works atm with 2 of those lines in
[13:01] <daveake> Depends on what dl-fldigi is set to
[13:01] <cuddykid> 1.5 stop bits
[13:01] <daveake> Number sent needs to be >= number expected
[13:01] <cuddykid> it was set to that for last flight too
[13:02] <cuddykid> ahh ok
[13:02] <cuddykid> I wonder if the old fldigi was more relaxed about that?
[13:02] <fsphil> fldigi ignores the stop bit setting
[13:02] <cuddykid> then that might make sense
[13:02] <cuddykid> uhhh?!
[13:02] <daveake> Oh, just looks for 1 then and rest is a gap?
[13:02] <fsphil> yea -- it's not used in the code except for transmitting
[13:03] <fsphil> after the byte has finished, it just waits indefinitely for the next start bit
[13:03] <cuddykid> why does the code only work when 2 lines are present?
[13:03] <daveake> Ah. I've been using 2 stop bits thinking it would help it decode.
[13:03] <fsphil> it does a bit
[13:03] <fsphil> it seems unreliable with 1 stop bit
[13:03] <fsphil> at the faster baud rates anyway
[13:03] <fsphil> I've always used 1.5 or 2
[13:03] <daveake> ok
[13:04] <daveake> Interesting
[13:04] <cuddykid> I'm not changing anything - it's in a fragile state atm :P lol
[13:04] <fsphil> lol
[13:04] <daveake> It is or you are???
[13:04] <cuddykid> just a little worrying that the main component is a bit screwed up
[13:04] <cuddykid> daveake: both I think atm! lol
[13:05] <cuddykid> I'm completely boggled
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[13:06] <navrac> afternnon all
[13:09] <navrac> daveake - http://www.silabs.com/pages/DownloadDoc.aspx?FILEURL=Support%20Documents/TechnicalDocs/AN593.pdf&src=DocumentationWebPart pg 6section 3.2.2
[13:10] <cuddykid> got no idea how the old code telemetry was received - doesn't even want to work with 1 stop bit :S
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[13:23] <cuddykid> looks rather snowy here
[13:29] <daveake> navrac .... I didn't see your "section 2.2.2" comment at first, but scanning thru I stopped at the same point :-)
[13:31] <cuddykid> finally after 20mins of being on the window sill the gps has lock!
[13:33] <daveake> navrac should be flying the rfm on Saturday as a second payload.
[13:34] <gonzo_> cuddykid: what's the gps rx/ant ?
[13:34] <cuddykid> standard lassen crappy ceramic antenna
[13:34] <daveake> This is handy - keeps my flight well away from London - http://thumbsnap.com/s/nFODx7t2.jpg :)
[13:34] <cuddykid> lol
[13:35] <cuddykid> idiots
[13:35] <cuddykid> I'm currently a nice -47m below sea level :P
[13:36] <gonzo_> any gain on it?
[13:36] <cuddykid> gonzo_: if any, minimal
[13:36] <daveake> add ground plane
[13:36] <cuddykid> it's ok when it's outside and got a clear view of the sky, but diabolical inside
[13:36] <cuddykid> got one
[13:36] <cuddykid> piece of foil underneath :O
[13:37] <cuddykid> *:P
[13:37] <daveake> standard then
[13:37] <daveake> Use an adapter + external GPS for testing
[13:37] <daveake> And add a backup battery
[13:38] <gonzo_> ffrom my calcs, a std rx and a 1"sq patch is barely enough to get a lock
[13:38] <cuddykid> it's got a lock now, just takes a while, it's fine for outside testing
[13:38] <gonzo_> and then only from a perfect signal from the satellite
[13:38] <cuddykid> HABE2 is finally on the tracker site :D
[13:39] <daveake> Nice and warm underground
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[13:40] <gonzo_> there is about 15db between locked and cold start sensitivity.
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[13:40] <daveake> Wow, that's a lot
[13:41] <gonzo_> so while a bare 1" patch is ok when locked, it's pants for getting a lock
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[13:41] <daveake> These fsa03s are incredible at getting a lock from the recesses of my office
[13:41] <gonzo_> average sensitivity these days seems to be -144dBm and -159dBm
[13:42] <gonzo_> that with an amplified antenna?
[13:42] <daveake> Sarantel helical
[13:43] <daveake> The answer being "I don't know I just bought the mdoule which has an antenna built in"
[13:43] <gonzo_> if it's sold built as is, then prob is ok. It's when you add your own that those figures can trip you up
[13:45] <gonzo_> from mem, the bandwith of the rx is 20meg, which closes down to 1meg when locked.
[13:48] <number10> the FSA I bent the antenna slightly on seems to take several minutes inside to get lock - I must have damaged it somehow
[13:48] <UpuHome> ping Darkside or anyone else who can do maths, Er of FR-4 PCB = 4.2, board thickness = 1.6mm to get a 50Ohm feed I reckon I need track width 2.955mm and a gap of 1.5mm
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[13:50] <Darkside> UpuHome: i don't know much about the colinear waveguide stuff
[13:50] <Darkside> i know for stripline its way thicker than 3mm
[13:50] <Darkside> but for colinear waveguide i think its far thunner
[13:50] <UpuHome> ok
[13:50] <Darkside> 2.955mm may be right, i dunno
[13:50] <UpuHome> well I used an online calc
[13:50] <Darkside> theres online calculators that do this
[13:50] <UpuHome> I'll double check it with something else
[13:50] <Darkside> go with that it tells you :P
[13:51] <gonzo_> http://www.emtalk.com/mscalc.php
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[13:52] <Darkside> gonzo_: that stripline
[13:52] <Darkside> which is a bit different
[13:52] <gonzo_> that one said 3.1mm, but near enough
[13:52] <gonzo_> microstripmine
[13:52] <Darkside> ok thats interesting...
[13:52] <gonzo_> only one groundplane
[13:52] <UpuHome> Coplanar Waveguide
[13:52] <Darkside> that means the stripline on my suplexer board is too big
[13:52] <Darkside> crap
[13:52] <Darkside> duplexer
[13:52] <UpuHome> :)
[13:53] <Darkside> i was sure i had that right...
[13:54] <gonzo_> what you duplexing?
[13:54] <UpuHome> getting different results alot of them ask for the frequency
[13:55] <gonzo_> the freq is only to calc the wavelength, should have no effect on the width
[13:55] <UpuHome> seems to affect the gap
[13:55] <Darkside> gonzo_: its a 70cm/2m duplexer board
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[13:55] <UpuHome> http://bama.ua.edu/~tmewes/Java/CPW/CPWCalculator.shtml this one reckons a gap of 0.2mm
[13:55] <gonzo_> I use about 3mm for most fr4 and for lower frequencies, I assume the dielectrioc
[13:55] <UpuHome> based on F0 1565Mhz
[13:55] <Darkside> for some reason i had the stripline width at 2.5mm
[13:56] <Darkside> this is with 0.8mm FR4
[13:56] <Darkside> which i think is wrong
[13:56] <UpuHome> I'm using 1.6mm FR4
[13:56] <gonzo_> ah, single sided board. Never done that. Ignore me
[13:56] <Darkside> eh?
[13:57] <Darkside> this wouldnt be single sided
[13:57] <gonzo_> they using the gap as the ground?
[13:57] <Darkside> what?
[13:58] <Darkside> UpuHome's coplanar waveguide is on a layer, with a ground plane on the other layer
[13:58] <Darkside> what i'm doing is stripline above a ground plane
[13:58] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/hUB6z.jpg
[13:59] <UpuHome> yeah got another one advising ~ 0.3mm as the space
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[14:00] <Darkside> ok i just had another calculator agree with the 1.5mm wide stripline
[14:00] <Darkside> i'll have to fix that up tomorrow
[14:01] <gonzo_> http://www.microwaves101.com/encyclopedia/coplanarwaveguide.cfm
[14:01] <gonzo_> there are grounded and open archetectures
[14:02] <gonzo_> suspect the maths will be different
[14:02] <UpuHome> its grounded
[14:02] <Darkside> coplanar waveguide is frequency dependent, right?
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[14:03] <UpuHome> some calulators ask for F0 some don't
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[14:04] <Lunar_Lander> eurohello
[14:04] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[14:04] <Lunar_Lander> the guy who doesn't get GPS is back
[14:04] <Lunar_Lander> :D
[14:05] <Darkside> ok nn all
[14:05] <Darkside> i need to sleep..
[14:05] <BrainDamage> coplanar is mostly frequency indepndent below a trigger freq
[14:06] <BrainDamage> ie when the field starts staying in mix of air / pcb material
[14:06] <BrainDamage> all quasi-tem waveguides suffer from that
[14:08] <Upu> I'll sit down and work it out this evening
[14:08] <SamSilver> UpuHome: this might help - ask them / him > http://www.wa0itp.com/ns40.html
[14:12] <Upu> thanks SamSilver
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[14:18] <gonzo_> what's application? Does it need to be coplanar or is it really just mictrstripline?
[14:24] <Lunar_Lander> btw, a side question
[14:24] <Lunar_Lander> are there special requirements for someone who plans to move to England permanently?
[14:25] <russss> as an EU citizen, I don't think so
[14:25] <daveake> Only for Welsh people
[14:25] <russss> lol
[14:25] <Lunar_Lander> XD!
[14:25] <Lunar_Lander> cause I just read a text on how the distributions of people are after getting a Ph.D.
[14:26] <Lunar_Lander> in Germany, 68% get a limited job, like 2 years at a time or so
[14:26] <Lunar_Lander> in England, these are only 28%
[14:26] <Lunar_Lander> and above that come the Lecturers, Readers and Professors
[14:27] <Lunar_Lander> 18% Professors versus 13% in germany!
[14:27] <Lunar_Lander> and of these are 5% W2 and 8% W3
[14:27] <Upu> [14:25] <Lunar_Lander> are there special requirements for someone who plans to move to England permanently?
[14:27] <Upu> yeah a sanity test
[14:27] <Lunar_Lander> AFAIK, W3 has a bit higher salary
[14:27] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[14:27] <Upu> gonzo_ its for this little antenna for GPS
[14:27] <daveake> Doesn't a PhD imply a lack of sanity anyway? :p
[14:27] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[14:28] <Upu> http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9131
[14:28] <Upu> that one
[14:28] <Lunar_Lander> france also has better numbers
[14:28] <Lunar_Lander> but I don't speak French
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[14:28] <Lunar_Lander> and moving to the USA is difficult afaik
[14:29] <gonzo_> upu, you just tracking the rx to this antenna?
[14:29] <Upu> yup
[14:29] <Lunar_Lander> the blog is run by a theoretical astronomer
[14:29] <Upu> thats a good point
[14:29] <gonzo_> then I'd just use a simple micro strip and be doen with it
[14:30] <Upu> very good point gonzo_ I'm not TXing
[14:30] <Lunar_Lander> who isn't an astronomer anymore now just because of that crap with those 2-year-jobs
[14:30] <Lunar_Lander> also, in England, Kevin still has a good reputation
[14:30] <gonzo_> if the tracs either side are far enough separated, then they won't effcet it
[14:30] <gonzo_> affect
[14:30] <Lunar_Lander> here it is like the number one name for asocial living
[14:30] <Lunar_Lander> or so
[14:31] <costyn> Upu: that's pretty cool.. is that the antenna you mentioned in your email?
[14:31] <Upu> yes
[14:31] <Upu> doing 2 boards
[14:31] <gonzo_> you putting some gain in for that ant upu?
[14:31] <Upu> one with Sarantel on
[14:31] <Upu> one with that
[14:31] <Upu> no
[14:31] <Upu> don't think it will need it
[14:32] <Upu> its not for UAV or anything dynamic
[14:32] <Upu> if it gets lock we are good ?
[14:32] <gonzo_> it seems that most gpr rx's are pretty deaf. They must assume there will be an amplified antenna being used
[14:32] <Upu> well Sarantel is passive
[14:33] <Upu> and its getting flight mode lock in 60 secs from cold on the ublox6
[14:33] <gonzo_> they must be a bit more sensitive
[14:33] <gonzo_> i've no idea on thegain of those helical antennas
[14:34] <gonzo_> I tend to do the maths on the capture area
[14:34] <Upu> 1 sec I'll find data sheet
[14:34] <gonzo_> which is easy for a patch
[14:35] <Upu> http://www.spkecl.com/comm/upfile/p_090730_04643.pdf
[14:36] <Upu> Sarantel gain -2.8
[14:36] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[14:36] <Lunar_Lander> BRIAN COX ROCKS
[14:36] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[14:36] <Upu> Chip thing -2.5
[14:37] <Upu> tbh I have no idea at all so I'm just going to try it
[14:37] Action: Upu pats Lunar_Lander
[14:37] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[14:44] <gonzo_> upu, I'll have to find out my original calcs again
[14:44] <Lunar_Lander> and in England, I want to drive a DeLorean
[14:46] Action: Upu pats Lunar_Lander
[14:46] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[14:54] <daveake> I wonder if there are any HAB related olde sayings ... "A watched Lassen never locks" ... "A good payload is hard to find" ...
[14:55] <WillDuckworth> a payload on the ground is worth 2 in a tree
[14:55] <daveake> :)
[14:57] <costyn> haha
[14:57] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[14:57] <number10> a payload in the sea is worth getting wet for, unless its a good payload
[14:57] <Lunar_Lander> payloads and level crossings don't mix
[14:57] <daveake> HAB moves in mysterious ways
[14:58] <number10> if you can hear rtty at night you have tinnitus
[14:58] <daveake> I swear the dodgy fan in my car was rtty-ing at me :)
[14:58] <number10> if you start whistling rtty you need to see a doctor
[14:58] <daveake> Make HAB while the sun shines
[14:59] <Lunar_Lander> James May likes HAB
[14:59] <fsphil> HAB a nice day
[15:00] <daveake> To HAB or not to HAB, that is the question
[15:00] <fsphil> There is no HAB
[15:00] <Lunar_Lander> HAB McNuggets
[15:01] <costyn> a fool and his balloon are soon parted
[15:01] <Laurenceb> thats not a HAB
[15:01] <WillDuckworth> red sky in the morning; HABers take warning
[15:01] <number10> I am starting to detect a memory leak in babel.c
[15:01] <Lunar_Lander> manned HAB will involve the most advanced device on Earth: The Port-A-Potty
[15:01] <costyn> it's no use crying over lost balloons
[15:02] <daveake> What have I started? :)
[15:02] <costyn> it's better to have HABbed and lost than to have never HABbed at all
[15:02] <daveake> lol
[15:02] <fsphil> Ask not what HAB can do for you
[15:02] <daveake> Tha payload's not for turning
[15:02] <costyn> It's the early balloonist that gets the floater
[15:03] <Lunar_Lander> I'm just laughing my bottom off when I think of James May in a spacesuit in a portapotty under several balloons
[15:03] <daveake> Too much imagination!
[15:03] <costyn> A balloon never lands twice in the same place
[15:03] <fsphil> HAB finds work for idle hands
[15:04] <costyn> Never let the sun go down on your balloon
[15:05] <number10> the mark of zorro on the tracker means....
[15:05] <costyn> hehe "Seek and ye shall find" another apt one
[15:05] <daveake> "Mmmm. Lost a payload, Master Obi-Wan has. How embarrassing. How embarrassing."
[15:05] <costyn> The bigger they are, the harder they fall
[15:06] <costyn> The airspace is always cleaner on the other side of the channel
[15:07] <fsphil> We will launch them from the beaches...
[15:07] <daveake> "A Jedi uses the Force for payload recovery, never for attack."
[15:08] <costyn> You can't HAB without bursting a few balloons
[15:08] <costyn> You can lead a balloon to altitude, but you can't make it float
[15:09] <costyn> ok I'm done
[15:09] <costyn> back to work
[15:09] <costyn> more inspiration if someone's bored: http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/proverbs.html
[15:09] <costyn> "What goes up must come down
[15:09] <Lunar_Lander> the flying portapotty
[15:09] <costyn> hehe
[15:09] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[15:11] <fsphil> In space no one can launch a balloon
[15:12] <fsphil> (waits for the correction :)
[15:12] <daveake> :)
[15:13] <daveake> "I believe that this nation should commit itself to achieving the goal, before this decade is out, of sending a balloon above those damn yanks did and returning it safely to the earth"
[15:15] <gonzo_> We choose to do this and the other things, not necause they are easy, but because they are fun.
[15:15] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[15:15] <Dan-K2VOL> haha
[15:15] <Lunar_Lander> next thing we should do
[15:16] <Lunar_Lander> we should send up a hotdog with the balloon
[15:16] <Laurenceb> in space, no-one can hear you trolling
[15:16] <gonzo_> found my gps notes. Looke like there was an error in the calcs.
[15:16] <gonzo_> The rx signal for an isotropic ant should be -130dBm
[15:16] <Dan-K2VOL> I'd say a payload in the hand is worth two in the tree
[15:17] <daveake> had that one :)
[15:17] <fsphil> so true
[15:17] <daveake> yep
[15:19] <cuddykid> there is one HABist, his name is cuddykid, he is forever plagued with bugs
[15:21] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[15:21] <Lunar_Lander> another thing that James May could of course test is
[15:21] <Lunar_Lander> how long can you live in a portapotty?
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[15:26] <gonzo_> I've rented places smaller!
[15:26] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[15:28] <cuddykid> I wonder when my APM2 will be arriving
[15:29] <Laurenceb> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=compressed%20air%20in%20skin%20contact%20medical%20devices&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CD0QFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.airgas.com%2Fdocuments%2Fpdf%2F001002.pdf&ei=bAgoT5TJN8WZ8gO4rqnSAw&usg=AFQjCNFRLNWNjlMh_BQQrvEoAkyXorALxw&cad=rja
[15:29] <Laurenceb> ^lol
[15:30] <Laurenceb> Inhalation
[15:30] <Laurenceb> : None expected.
[15:30] <cuddykid> lol
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[15:31] <Laurenceb> Eyes: : Safety eyewear complying with an approved standard should be used
[15:32] <Laurenceb> but what will the eyewear be filled with ??
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[15:32] <Lunar_Lander> OK, bbl
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[15:39] <gonzo_> "COMPRESSED AIR IS A COLORLESS, ODORLESS, TASTELESS GAS AT NORMAL
[15:39] <gonzo_> TEMPERATURE AND PRESSURE."
[15:39] <gonzo_> if it's at norman pressuer, then it's not compressed?!
[15:40] <gonzo_> l
[15:48] <Upu> hey we had COSH sheets for distilled water at ICI
[15:49] <daveake> :)
[15:49] <daveake> Dangerous stuff
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[15:54] <fsphil> reminds me of the dihydrogen monoxide warnings
[15:57] <Laurenceb> http://www.wst.tas.gov.au/safety_comply/dang_subs/compressed_air
[15:57] <Laurenceb> bottom part
[15:58] <daveake> exactly
[16:02] <daveake> Gree... bought 10 DS18B20s on fleabay for ~£10. Still haven't arrived after 2 weeks.
[16:02] <daveake> Now bought one for £3-odd from RS so Buzz can have one for the weekend
[16:12] <eroomde> rapidonline were trying to get rid of them recently
[16:12] <eroomde> about 65p each
[16:12] <daveake> ooer
[16:14] <daveake> Looks like they are rid of them
[16:14] <fsphil> aye
[16:14] <daveake> I bought 10 last time but they're all gone :p
[16:14] Action: Laurenceb just found a drawer of SHT-71 sensors
[16:15] <daveake> or lost. or eaten.
[16:15] <fsphil> I've never flown a temperature sensor before
[16:15] <Laurenceb> protip
[16:15] <Laurenceb> it gets cold
[16:15] <daveake> :)
[16:16] <daveake> Can anyone guess what I just found on my desk?
[16:16] <fsphil> banana!
[16:17] <daveake> 7 of the buggers
[16:17] <daveake> Temperature sensing bananas
[16:20] Action: daveake solders one to Pico Buzz, thus multiplying the payload weight by a factor of 10
[16:20] <costyn> hehehe
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[17:11] <griffonbot> Received email: daveake "[UKHAS] CLOUD3 Flight Announcement"
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[17:15] <cuddykid> "depending on the phase of the moon in China when the balloon was made" lol daveake :D
[17:16] <daveake> It's as good a relationship as anything else
[17:16] <cuddykid> prepared for a possible snowy launch
[17:16] <daveake> Snow on ground=good. Pretty. Falling snow not quite so good
[17:17] <cuddykid> yeah, I shouldn't think it will affect the balloon too much, unless it freezes onto it
[17:17] <cuddykid> or weighs everything down
[17:17] <daveake> freezes on it
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[17:22] <cuddykid> hmm - might start some work on the solar panel - in almost darkness :P
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[17:25] Nick change: ms7821_ -> ms7821
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[17:29] <cuddykid> so annoying trawling through rows on rows of resistors trying to find the right ones!
[17:32] <number10> are you in a resistor supermarket?
[17:33] <cuddykid> number10: no, I think hypermarket
[17:34] <cuddykid> I've got something like 800 of them I'm trawling through lol
[17:34] <cuddykid> got about 50 different values
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[17:56] <cuddykid> resistors all hooked up
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[18:03] <cuddykid> if I do an int divided by a float, it could go a little wrong right?
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[18:15] Nick change: stilldavid_ -> stilldavid
[18:20] <cuddykid> no no nooo - just wrote a massive post and then the browser freezes on me :(
[18:20] <daveake> woohoo
[18:21] Action: daveake runs for the hills before cuddy's next massive post full of problems
[18:21] <daveake> :)
[18:21] <cuddykid> rofl
[18:21] <cuddykid> I've been typing for about 10mins solid and now it's probably all lost
[18:22] <daveake> I entered the cuddylight zone earlier
[18:22] <daveake> Scary place
[18:23] <daveake> Added a DS18B20 to this pico payload ...
[18:23] <daveake> ... then the rfm22b rtty stopped.
[18:23] <cuddykid> asking for trouble :P
[18:23] <cuddykid> oh no!
[18:23] <daveake> So I commented out the changes ...
[18:23] <daveake> ... no change. Still broke.
[18:24] <daveake> Check the wiring. No joy.
[18:24] <daveake> Checked the receiver against my other payload. No problem.
[18:24] <daveake> You#ll *never* guess the actual problem :)
[18:25] <daveake> See http://pastebin.com/pqc5YuXv
[18:25] <daveake> The "-" was be touching the keyboard when soldering up the DS18B20
[18:25] <cuddykid> lol
[18:25] <daveake> me
[18:26] <daveake> So it stopped the else
[18:26] <daveake> So it stopped the setFrequency being executed
[18:26] <cuddykid> that's what I would do :P
[18:26] <cuddykid> except I magically delete lines
[18:26] <daveake> Exactly. The Cuddy Zone
[18:27] <daveake> btw assuming I'd broken something, I ordered a spare Arduino and RFM22B before I spotted it :D
[18:27] <cuddykid> oh no!
[18:27] <daveake> s'ok. They can go with the spare DS18B20 I ordered before I found 8 lost ones :D
[18:27] <cuddykid> can never have too many of those though
[18:27] <daveake> true
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[18:29] <daveake> I buy so much Sparkfun stuff that they can afford to have these giveaways each year :p
[18:32] <eroomde> they are doing the generic digital caliper for about £7 atm
[18:32] <eroomde> which is a very low price indeed
[18:32] <eroomde> cheap enough to want to play around with them to canibalise them for other project. They have a serial out, which is exciting
[18:33] <daveake> eroomde Planning on coming to my launch on Saturday?
[18:33] <eroomde> oh is there one this sat?
[18:34] <eroomde> what time?
[18:34] <daveake> 10am
[18:34] <daveake> Slot is 8:45 to 1pm
[18:34] <eroomde> I'm at a housewarming in aldgate of fri night, i cannot guarantee my coherence in the morning
[18:34] <daveake> You can watch incoherent;y if you like :)
[18:34] <russss> dealextreme have digital calipers for a similar price
[18:34] <eroomde> or indeed wther or not i'll have got from lond to ox to you in the morning
[18:34] <daveake> 2 payloads for extra fun
[18:35] <daveake> flying ann rfm22b test payload
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[18:35] <eroomde> if i end up coming back to ox on fri eve, then I shall def come along for the launch
[18:35] <daveake> Cool
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[18:36] <eroomde> russss: transport from aldgate to victoria after midnight
[18:36] <eroomde> night bus?
[18:36] <russss> oh right, the oxford tube is 24 hours isn't it
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[18:36] <russss> hmm
[18:36] <eroomde> yes
[18:36] <eroomde> so if i ncan get to vic then i'm fine
[18:37] <russss> walk up to liverpool street and get the N8
[18:37] <russss> that goes directly to victoria
[18:37] <eroomde> ah yep I know the N8
[18:37] <eroomde> ex lives in stratford
[18:37] <russss> I've done that journey a couple of times in reverse at like 2am
[18:37] <eroomde> yeah it attracts some characters
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[18:39] <CovBalloon_> Evening
[18:40] <eroomde> hi CovBalloon_
[18:40] <eroomde> daveake: ok, I shall try and make it back
[18:40] <eroomde> could you email me the deatils of how to get there?
[18:40] <daveake> Excellent
[18:41] <daveake> Will do
[18:41] <eroomde> eddymoore at gmail
[18:41] <daveake> Yeah got that fp,r mailing list emails
[18:41] <daveake> from
[18:42] <eroomde> oh yeah
[18:43] <eroomde> i got some tools today
[18:43] <eroomde> hand tools
[18:44] <eroomde> i bought all the screw driver sizes i usually need for electronics and electricals from RS from the bahco range
[18:44] <eroomde> and a couple of the nice bahco nut drivers like 5.5m, which is an M3 nut, which is useful for nutting stuff down to pcb spacer stands
[18:45] <eroomde> and a really nice lindstrom side cutter and small snipe-nose. ones that will last for life and are really nicely ground
[18:45] <eroomde> and a decent wire stripper
[18:46] <daveake> Yeah, I bought some lindstroms recently. Expensive but as you say they'll outlast us.
[18:46] <eroomde> just because not having the right tool for the job can be more expensive than buying the right tool, often
[18:46] <daveake> When armageddon comes the rates won't need their teeth to strip or cut stuff
[18:46] <daveake> rats
[18:46] <eroomde> and yeah, these are the tools of my trade so i might aswell buy right and buy once
[18:47] <daveake> I have som Knipex which I prefer to use, but they don't last
[18:47] <daveake> some
[18:49] <CovBalloon_> Damn, bought my 817 on eBay and apparently they can't ship due to a global shortage of the units....whats that all about. You boys been buying them all up?
[18:50] <eroomde> not I
[18:50] <daveake> nor me. Still using my trusty AR8000
[18:50] <eroomde> daveake: yeah I saw the knipex too
[18:50] <CovBalloon_> might set my sights a little lower
[18:50] <eroomde> but at work they had the classic yellow lindstrom so i decided to stick with it
[18:50] <daveake> Sharp but don't cut anything too solid with them
[18:50] <eroomde> i shalln't
[18:51] <daveake> I meant the Knipex
[18:51] <eroomde> i have manly teng side cutters for all that
[18:51] <eroomde> this is wire only
[18:51] <daveake> :)
[18:51] <eroomde> and thin wire too
[18:51] <eroomde> making up connectors etc
[18:51] <eroomde> the next purchases will be crimping tools
[18:51] <eroomde> bottlace ferrule and molex
[18:51] <eroomde> bootlace*
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[18:55] <daveake> eeemail sent
[18:56] <eroomde> ta
[18:56] <eroomde> about to leave work, will reply tonight or tomorrpow
[18:57] <daveake> ok
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[19:04] <cuddykid> to set the atmega328 chip at 4mhz is it as simple as just using a 4mh crystal instead of 16mhz?
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[19:04] <cuddykid> *mhz
[19:11] Nick change: bcw -> bcw-AFK
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[19:31] <zyp> pretty much
[19:31] <zyp> or you can keep the 16mhz and use the prescaler to divide it by 4
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[20:14] Nick change: Upu -> UpuWork
[20:14] Nick change: UpuHome -> Upu
[20:33] <cuddykid> Upu: what length of sma cable did you go for to link pcb mount connector to panel mount? I'm thinking 15cm
[20:33] <Upu> sounds about right
[20:34] <Upu> just enough to get out of the payload
[20:34] <cuddykid> may increase to 20cm just in case
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[20:42] <Tom25> Hi, i'm using the ntx2 arduino guide to prototype a tracker, and I'm a bit confused about which resistors to use where. Here are the resistors I'm using : http://picgoes.in/v/pqxO.jpg http://picgoes.in/v/adQ8X.jpg.
[20:42] <Tom25> Which is 22k and which is 10k?
[20:42] <Upu> hey Tom
[20:42] <Tom25> Colours are gold orange black brown
[20:42] <Upu> are you asking which resistor is which ?
[20:42] <daveake> other way round
[20:43] <Tom25> And red red blue red brown
[20:43] <daveake> brown black orange = 10k
[20:43] <Upu> yeah other way round
[20:43] <Upu> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_color_code
[20:43] <Tom25> Sorry, I am terrible with resistors :(
[20:43] <Upu> me too get a multimeter with resistance on it :)
[20:44] <daveake> Yeah ... these days there are sometimes 3 digit bands not 2, so rather than guess get out the meter :)
[20:44] <Upu> brown = 1 black = 0 orange = x 1000
[20:46] <Tom25> Thanks :) i'm putting them on the breadboard now,
[20:46] <Tom25> Is there a way to test the circuit without a radio reciever? I'm still waiting to win one on ebay, currently high bidder!
[20:47] <Upu> not really
[20:47] <Upu> what radio are you bidding on ?
[20:48] <Upu> http://imagebin.org/196608
[20:49] <Upu> Max6 break out
[20:49] <Upu> with the surface mount antenna board
[20:49] <Tom25> An ft-790r
[20:49] <Upu> good luck :)
[20:50] <Upu> you can test the voltage to the TX pin on the NTX2
[20:50] <Upu> just use the first example hilow
[20:50] <Upu> I can't recall what voltages it put but there shouldn't be a massive difference between them about .25 volts if I recall
[20:51] <Upu> 0.2125v for 425hz shift
[20:52] <Upu> if the voltage to TX pin is less than 3V and the difference between the 2 voltages you get is around 0.2125v as the code goes hi/lo you have it
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[21:01] <Tom25> Ok, i'll try that when i'm done, thanks :)
[21:01] <Upu> jsut make sure the delay is quite high or your multimeter may not be able to keep up
[21:01] <Upu> unless you're lucky enough to have an osciliscope
[21:02] <fsphil> mmm
[21:03] <Upu> you got that bid of 99p on that radio Tom25 ?
[21:03] <Upu> be prepared to spend more than that :)
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[21:05] <Tom25> Haha, I think it automatically puts the lowest bid possibly up to your maximum - I'm the high bidder as I'm the only bidder :)
[21:06] <Tom25> *possible
[21:06] <Tom25> iirc the last one went for £90, missed it at the last minute
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[21:08] <fsphil> that an ft790?
[21:10] <Tom25> Step 3 on the ntx2 guide, do i just copy the resistor layout using the co-ordinates, or is there a method? Asked about this the other day, wasn't made clear
[21:11] <cuddykid> wow - FT817s going for well over £400 - got mine for ~£250 I think, though wasn't the best condition
[21:11] <Upu> you were lucky :)
[21:11] <fsphil> very
[21:11] <cuddykid> had to leave it in the garage for a few weeks to air as it stank of cigarette smoke - but now it's all good :D
[21:11] <fsphil> euuu
[21:11] <Tom25> I didn't get it :(
[21:12] <fsphil> my last Amiga I got from ebay had that problem cuddykid
[21:12] <fsphil> from the state inside it I can imaging the condition of the previous owners lungs
[21:12] <cuddykid> yeah, had a sort of grimy coating aswell
[21:12] <Upu> Tom25
[21:12] <fsphil> yea
[21:12] <cuddykid> yeah fsphil lol
[21:12] <Upu> breadboard can be wired differently
[21:12] <cuddykid> a good scrub and air and it was all sorted
[21:12] <Upu> basically you have to make the circuit in the diagram
[21:12] <Upu> on your break board
[21:13] <fsphil> it's difficult to tell with amigas as the cases often go yellow naturally
[21:13] <Upu> bread even
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[21:15] <cuddykid> £268 I paid
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[21:15] <cuddykid> well £248 + £20p&p
[21:15] <fsphil> Mine was ~£460 new
[21:15] <fsphil> but very shortly after that they went up above £500
[21:15] <cuddykid> good buy :)
[21:18] <fsphil> we could solder this ;) http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/why-the-raspberry-pi-wont-ship-in-kit-form-20120131/
[21:18] <cuddykid> tempted to try and bring my yaesu back at the weekend so I can help track
[21:18] <cuddykid> fsphil - eek
[21:18] <Tom25> In the picture there are four resistors, but you specify 2x 22k and 1x10k?
[21:19] <cuddykid> Tom25: only need 3
[21:19] <cuddykid> probably a typo
[21:19] <fsphil> there may be an extra resistor on the EN pin
[21:19] <fsphil> it's not needed
[21:19] <cuddykid> yep
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[21:23] <Upu> a typo
[21:23] <Upu> by me ?
[21:23] <Upu> nevar!
[21:24] <Upu> Tom25 there is a 4.7k in there too
[21:24] <Upu> you can replace the 22k and the 4.7k with a 26.7k as they are in series
[21:24] <Upu> Items youll need : Radiometrix NTX2 Arduino 2 x 22k resistors 1 x 10k resistor 1x 4.7K resistor
[21:25] <Tom25> Oh dammit :( I don't have any 4.7k resistors, or 26.7k .
[21:26] <Tom25> I've got a 10k going from D11-D12, and a 22k going from E12 to F12
[21:26] <Upu> tie 4 22k's in parallel
[21:27] <daveake> :)
[21:27] <Upu> should give you about 5.5k
[21:27] <daveake> 4k7 is the universal resistor :)
[21:27] <Upu> that 1k and 10k yes :)
[21:28] <Upu> pull up pull down and make your LED's work
[21:28] <daveake> yep
[21:28] <Tom25> I have enough 22ks ( red red black red brown right?), so where abouts do i put them? Bit confused, sorry
[21:28] <Upu> well this is going to get complex
[21:28] <Upu> take a step back
[21:28] <Upu> what you're making is a voltage divider
[21:28] <cuddykid> lol Upu
[21:28] <Tom25> Ok
[21:28] <Upu> so to get your head round it try this
[21:29] <Upu> +Voltage <----> 22K <-----> 22k <---> GND
[21:29] <Upu> make that circuit
[21:29] <cuddykid> Tom25: connect them up end to end; so - one end of resistor 1 connect to one end of resistor 2, then the other end of resistor 2 connect to one end of resistor 3...
[21:29] <Upu> and then then measure the voltage in the middle
[21:29] <Upu> you should find its 1/2 +Voltage
[21:29] <Upu> try that
[21:30] <Upu> just make sure +Voltage is a small batter and not house mains or a lead acid :)
[21:30] <Upu> battery
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[21:35] <Tom25> Ok, I don't have the neccessary equipment for that right now (I'm at home, only have access to multimeters at school, sourced parts from friends), but I'll try to understand what you're saying. I have a small (say AAA) battery, connected to two 22k resistors in series to ground, and due to the two resistors it's voltage will have halved?
[21:36] <Tom25> So if i were to use 4x22k resistors end to end, it would be like 1 5.5k resistor?
[21:36] <daveake> No, resistors "end to end" sum in value
[21:36] <daveake> 2 resistors of the same value in parallel halve in value
[21:37] <daveake> 4 of the same quarter
[21:38] <Tom25> My mistake
[21:38] <daveake> Resistors block the flow of electrickery. Put them in parallel and there are more routes for the electrons to flow, so less resistance to that flow. Like using 2 thin pipes in parallel instead of one thicker pipe.
[21:39] <fsphil> the plumbing metaphor is great for trying to image that
[21:41] <Tom25> Oh, that's clearer!
[21:41] <daveake> :)
[21:42] <Tom25> 22/4 is 5.5
[21:42] <daveake> Problem with electrons is that being small you don't see them move, so electricity is a bit obscure without a metaphor
[21:42] <daveake> Yep
[21:43] <fsphil> worlds lowest resolution high altitude "panorama": http://i.imgur.com/kHh2D.jpg
[21:43] <Tom25> So 4 22k resisistors in parallel make a 5.5k resistor
[21:43] <daveake> Exactly
[21:43] <daveake> fsphil so you haven't destroyed the earth this time
[21:43] <fsphil> nope, I managed to restore it thankfully
[21:44] <daveake> from backup?
[21:44] <fsphil> although not everything might be in the right place
[21:44] <Tom25> Thanks, that makes it a lot clearer actually - how do I know 5.5k is close enough to 4.7k to work though?
[21:44] <daveake> Depends what the 4.7k was doing!
[21:44] <Tom25> And how do i place 4 22k resistors in parallel on a breadboard?
[21:45] <Tom25> The 4.7k is the universal resistor
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[21:45] <daveake> The breadboard has holes wired together in rows. Choose 2 rows 10mm or so apart, then join them 4 times with 4 resistors
[21:45] <fsphil> didn't the universal soldier get him?
[21:45] <daveake> universal solderer
[21:45] <cuddykid> fsphil - lol with the black hole in the sun
[21:45] <fsphil> lol
[21:46] <fsphil> ah crap cuddykid, there goes the earth again
[21:46] <fsphil> sorry guys
[21:46] <cuddykid> lol
[21:46] <fsphil> I knew this backup was a bit iffy
[21:46] <daveake> git
[21:46] <daveake> I mean, git?
[21:46] <daveake> ;)
[21:47] <fsphil> yeaaa
[21:47] <fsphil> [phil@spacetime universe]$ git --reset hard
[21:51] <daveake> Good job we didn't get a net split when you said that
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[22:03] <fsphil> cold outside, stay indoors!
[22:04] <Upu> yeah got to walk the dog also shortly :)
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[22:13] <LazyLeopard> o/~ It's cold outside! There's no kind of atmosphere. o/~
[22:14] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: I've been moving sheets around outside. 2.1mm*2.4m sheets that I'd stacked on the lawn.
[22:14] <SpeedEvil> Need to get them under-cover.
[22:14] <SpeedEvil> It's bloody cold.
[22:15] <SpeedEvil> And need to do it when there is no wind, ofr obvious reasons.
[22:16] <fsphil> yea it's a pretty calm night
[22:16] <cuddykid> has anyone here programmed in Java before? any good? I'm doing that this semester - would prefer if it was obj C
[22:16] <fsphil> actually I must track the local sonde launch, see if it comes near here
[22:17] <SpeedEvil> You can write sane code in java.
[22:17] <SpeedEvil> But...
[22:17] <cuddykid> It deals with all memory management etc - so that must be a plus (in a way)
[22:17] <LazyLeopard> ...not _small_ code.
[22:18] Action: LazyLeopard remembers getting a program into a few hundred bytes...
[22:18] <LazyLeopard> ...but with Java the equivalent is a few hundred megabytes.
[22:19] <cuddykid> eek
[22:19] <LazyLeopard> ;)
[22:19] <cuddykid> I see :P
[22:19] <LazyLeopard> ...'cos there's that JVM lurking there before you do anything.
[22:23] <Laurenceb_> i tried java once
[22:23] <Laurenceb_> never again
[22:23] <Laurenceb_> NEVER
[22:24] <cuddykid> lol
[22:24] <Laurenceb_> library hell
[22:24] <Laurenceb_> python just works, worst case you need to sudo apt-get install some stuff
[22:25] <Randomskk> also java is awful
[22:25] <Randomskk> the jvm takes like a year to start up
[22:25] <fsphil> java kills kittens
[22:25] <Randomskk> its syntax is just silly
[22:27] <cuddykid> it's annoying they chose java to teach us OO programming - would've much preferred C++ or Obj C
[22:28] <Randomskk> java is very, very, very common. are you doing eng or compsci?
[22:28] <cuddykid> btw - is there any big disadvantage to running atmega328 at 4mhz rather than16mhz? Apart from being slower
[22:28] <cuddykid> Randomskk: econ, but some comp sci modules
[22:31] <Randomskk> abstract const final native protected static synchronised volatile void my_method() {
[22:31] <Randomskk> }
[22:31] <Randomskk> :(
[22:31] <Randomskk> and that's assuming it has no arguments! once you have arguments all bets are off
[22:31] <Laurenceb_> haha
[22:31] <Randomskk> those are all valid java keywords for a member function, iirc
[22:31] <LazyLeopard> C++ is about as bad as OO gets.
[22:31] <Randomskk> and even a valid combination, despite "volatile const"
[22:31] <Randomskk> const is a keyword but has no meaning at all
[22:31] <Randomskk> on, abstract + final isn't technically allowed.
[22:32] <Randomskk> LazyLeopard: yea but as a language I still prefer it to java >_>
[22:32] <cuddykid> lol
[22:33] <Randomskk> so glad the course here avoids all java
[22:33] <LazyLeopard> Personally, I'd rather use C than C++.
[22:33] <Randomskk> depends on the project
[22:34] <Randomskk> there are situations where I'd rather use c++
[22:34] <Randomskk> I mean, I acknowledge that C can do the same thing, but
[22:34] <Randomskk> ...namespaces!
[22:34] <Randomskk> in the literal and more vague sense
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[22:35] <LazyLeopard> There are languages I've encountered that I like less than C++, but neither Java nor Python are in that list.
[22:35] <Randomskk> <3 python
[22:52] <cuddykid> with rjharrison's schematic - is there really a need for the 0.1uF cap? http://www.robertharrison.org/images/icarus2/Icarus-sch.pdf Currently I'm running an atmega328 off 5v and there is no need for one
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[22:53] <fsphil> it's *always* good to have some caps
[22:53] <fsphil> right next to each IC
[22:53] <fsphil> close to the VCC pin as possible
[22:53] <Upu> decoupling filter out noise
[22:54] <Upu> Darkside made me put lots on swift
[22:54] <cuddykid> currently I have 4 caps - 2 in between vcc and gnd by reg; and 2 by crystal
[22:54] <Darkside> MOAR
[22:55] <Upu> Ah
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[22:55] <Darkside> decouple ALL the VCC pins
[22:55] <fsphil> lol
[22:55] <Upu> just the man
[22:55] <Darkside> i could tell you were talking about me
[22:55] <Darkside> so i woke up just at the right time
[22:55] <cuddykid> lol
[22:55] <Upu> Darkside (any anyone else) that antenna and the coplanar wave guide and the 50 ohm feeder
[22:55] <Upu> we aren't transmitting so is it necessary ?
[22:55] <Upu> http://imagebin.org/196608
[22:55] <Darkside> of course it is necessart
[22:56] <cuddykid> Darkside, so every vcc - stick a 0.1uF cap to GND?
[22:56] <Darkside> cuddykid: if you can
[22:56] <Darkside> maybe not every single one
[22:56] <Darkside> Upu: reciprocity principle
[22:56] <Darkside> what is good for transmit is good for receive
[22:56] <Upu> ok
[22:56] <Upu> I'll redo it then cheers
[22:57] <Upu> if I can get the calculators to agree
[22:57] <fsphil> how do you do a 50 ohm pcb trace?
[22:57] <Upu> "maths"
[22:57] <fsphil> ah
[22:57] <fsphil> thought so
[22:57] <Upu> maths which I need to get my head round
[22:57] <Upu> it doesn't look too complex
[22:58] <Darkside> fsphil: 50 ohm characteristic impedance, not 50 ohm dc resistance
[22:58] <fsphil> aye, meant that
[22:58] <Darkside> ok time to get ready for uni
[22:58] <Darkside> bbl
[22:58] <Upu> cheers laters
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[23:25] <daveake> Upu Just putting together this rfm22 payload for Saturday. About 60g total.
[23:25] <fsphil> you don't need a balloon for that
[23:25] <daveake> Just blow it :)
[23:25] <fsphil> parachute will be enough :)
[23:26] <daveake> :)
[23:26] <fsphil> it'll never land!
[23:26] <daveake> Well on Saturday the main payload will pull it down :)
[23:30] <fsphil> what time are you launching?
[23:30] <daveake> Aiming for 10am
[23:30] <fsphil> mm.. I'll be in the office but I'll set it up for remote control
[23:31] <daveake> Cool. I think Upu needs someone to remote control his rig, so maybe Darkside can run that one.
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[23:39] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/oKAoX.jpg
[23:39] <Darkside> phew
[23:39] <Darkside> daveake: what time are you launching
[23:40] <daveake> 10am UTC
[23:40] <Darkside> easy
[23:40] <Darkside> i can track that
[23:40] <daveake> Cheers
[23:40] <daveake> Upu's out working then
[23:40] <daveake> 2 payloads to choose from - CLOUD is the NTX2 and BUZZ is the RFM22B
[23:41] <Darkside> yup i saw the email
[23:41] <daveake> :)
[23:41] <Darkside> speaking of RFM22s i should have mine today..
[23:41] <daveake> About time!
[23:41] <fsphil> yay
[23:42] <daveake> I thought I'd killed min earlier - it stopped working after I added some DS18B20 code, but it turned out I'd leant on the keyboard when I soldered that on ...
[23:43] <daveake> .... just one character inserted and it compiled ok but excluded the rtty frequency change :p
[23:44] <Darkside> haha
[23:44] <daveake> A "-" before a #else
[23:46] <daveake> Right time for sleep, seeya all
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[23:47] <MLow> waiting for shipments of cool electronics sucks
[23:47] <Darkside> yup
[23:48] <MLow> not as fun as watching my bank account balance drop
[23:49] <Darkside> haha yep
[23:49] <Darkside> ballooning is an expensive hobby
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[23:49] <Darkside> particularly if you want to do it properly
[23:50] <MLow> well 150$ for a tracker isnt bad
[23:50] <MLow> especial seeing as i might lose the first
[23:50] <Darkside> until it fails and you lose it
[23:50] <MLow> 70' trees about this part of texas
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[23:51] <fsphil> Treeeeeeeeees
[23:51] <Darkside> we don't really have that problem
[23:52] <Darkside> we just have big national parks and no roads
[23:52] <fsphil> here it's either trees, or ocean
[23:53] <MLow> heres it's all dry and dead
[23:53] <MLow> PERFECT TIME TO LAUNCH
[23:53] <MLow> no money :|
[23:54] <MLow> the tracker should be finished next week though, some time after that i will have the cash for launch costs
[23:56] <fsphil> I'm debating between a launch or going to australia and being baked :)
[23:57] <Darkside> baked?
[23:57] <Darkside> come to australia and come to a launch with us!
[23:57] <Darkside> :P
[23:57] <fsphil> oooh
[23:57] <fsphil> launch during the eclipse!
[23:57] <Darkside> ok maybe not that
[23:57] <fsphil> lol
[23:58] <Darkside> cape york is pretty narrow
[23:58] <fsphil> so it is
[23:58] <fsphil> still bigger than here though
[23:58] <Darkside> heh
[23:58] <Darkside> cutdown :P
[23:58] <Darkside> (working on it)
[23:59] <Darkside> i need to make a big red button that wires into one of the radios
[23:59] <Darkside> so when we want to cutdown we actually get to press a big red button
[23:59] <Darkside> or even better, a missile switch!
[23:59] <fsphil> I have to decide tomorrow if I'm going- trying to work out who else is going, cause I'm not trekking it alone
[23:59] <fsphil> yea, one of those flip-the-cover and fire switches
[00:00] --- Wed Feb 1 2012