highaltitude.log.20120128

[00:00] <natrium42> yeah, that should do it
[00:00] <natrium42> that's what i will tell them
[00:00] <Lunar_Lander> thanks fsphil-laptop
[00:00] <jcoxon> could use a nano servo
[00:00] <Lunar_Lander> :)
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[00:00] <natrium42> but i don't have time to build a proto for them
[00:00] <natrium42> so i can point them to any of you guys
[00:01] <natrium42> if you are interested
[00:01] <jcoxon> i'm too busy
[00:01] <jcoxon> i've got exams coming up
[00:01] <natrium42> aah
[00:01] <natrium42> SpeedEvil?
[00:05] <fsphil-laptop> be nice to play with a spot, sadly no time here either
[00:05] <natrium42> why can't days be longer? :S
[00:06] <natrium42> jcoxon, you need to find a cure for sleep
[00:06] <natrium42> 100% of population is affected
[00:06] <fsphil-laptop> we'd be expected to work more
[00:06] <Lunar_Lander> did somone already watch that "The Ides of March" movie?
[00:07] <natrium42> i am afraid not, Lunar_Lander
[00:07] <natrium42> nobody watched it
[00:08] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
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[00:11] <natrium42> :D
[00:12] <Lunar_Lander> https://secure.flickr.com/photos/cernpodcast/1612957985/
[00:12] <Lunar_Lander> the shirt of the second guy from the right is ROFL
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[00:31] <Lunar_Lander1> crappy router
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[00:42] Nick change: soafee-chan -> spacekitteh
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[00:51] <Lunar_Lander> sorry
[00:51] <Lunar_Lander> my router failed again
[00:52] <Lunar_Lander> is someone from the recent GPS discussion still on?
[00:52] <Lunar_Lander> like fsphil or so
[00:52] <Lunar_Lander> or Dark
[00:52] <Lunar_Lander> *darks
[00:52] <Lunar_Lander> Darkside
[00:52] <Lunar_Lander> sorry
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[01:25] <Lunar_Lander> hello Zuph
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[01:50] <SpeedEvil> Novel physics is fun.
[01:51] <SpeedEvil> 'We have found that submicronthick membranes made from graphene oxide
[01:51] <SpeedEvil> are completely impermeable to liquids, vapors and gases, but allow unimpeded permeation of water (H2O
[01:51] <SpeedEvil> permeates through the membranes at least 1010 times faster than He).'
[01:53] <Lunar_Lander> LOL
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[02:11] <Zuph> Lo, Lunar_Lander
[02:11] <Lunar_Lander> how is life?
[02:11] <Zuph> oh, alright
[02:11] <Zuph> How about yours?
[02:12] <Lunar_Lander> I'm good, thanks
[02:12] <Lunar_Lander> just trying to figuring out the GPS
[02:12] <Lunar_Lander> I'm just reading the description of TinyGPS
[02:12] <Zuph> hehe
[02:14] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[02:14] <Lunar_Lander> did you work with it?
[02:24] <Lunar_Lander> if I may ask
[02:24] <Lunar_Lander> Zuph
[02:24] <Zuph> oh, no
[02:25] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[02:25] <Zuph> We wrote our own buggy GPS parser
[02:25] <Lunar_Lander> ah :)
[02:26] <Lunar_Lander> the thing is that I want to take from the NMEA sentence the position and altitude and have that broadcast by the NTX2, just like other people do it
[02:26] <Lunar_Lander> and TinyGPS seems to have a function for obtaining the position data, so that seems to be good at first
[02:27] <Darkside> i used tinygps, with mods
[02:27] <Darkside> we use the ublox gps in polld mode
[02:27] <Darkside> so we don't wait for data, we send requests
[02:28] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[02:29] <Darkside> are you using a ublox?
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[02:29] <Darkside> I can probably get you some code snippets once I get to hackerspace
[02:30] <Darkside> the tinygps library mod we use probably wont work with arduino 1.0 though
[02:32] <Lunar_Lander> I got the Venus GPS and a gpsBee which is a ublox in the form of an xbee module
[02:32] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[02:32] <Darkside> none of our payloads use the raw nmea data
[02:33] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[02:33] <Lunar_Lander> but the general system of GPS->Arduino->NTX2 should work, right?
[02:34] <Darkside> with polled mode you can lower the gps power consumptuon a bit
[02:34] <Darkside> of course
[02:34] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[02:35] <Lunar_Lander> but you never used the Venus as the old firmware was altitude restricted?
[02:35] <Darkside> we've never used anything but ublox and lassen
[02:36] <Darkside> and we havent used lassen for about 19,launches now
[02:36] <Lunar_Lander> OK
[02:36] <Lunar_Lander> what are the disadvantages of the lassen?
[02:36] <Darkside> crap sensirivity
[02:36] <Lunar_Lander> and the small connector?
[02:36] <Darkside> (on phone, bad ryping)
[02:37] <Darkside> connector isnt a problem, theres breakouts for that
[02:37] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[02:37] <Lunar_Lander> can you point me to the ublox module that you use?
[02:38] <Darkside> homebrew module
[02:38] <Darkside> its a ublox 6 chipset though
[02:38] <Darkside> your gpsbee will do fine
[02:39] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[02:39] <Lunar_Lander> fortunately I bought one of those breakouts that transforms the gpsbee to a standard pinout
[02:41] <Lunar_Lander> the GPS is the final thing to do
[02:41] <Lunar_Lander> besides making the system more reliable in not sending up a breadboard
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[02:43] <Lunar_Lander> I think
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[02:46] <Lunar_Lander> still phoning Darkside?
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[02:59] <Darkside> just go tto hackerspace
[03:00] <Darkside> rebooting into windows to do some PCB design
[03:00] <Darkside> back later
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[03:01] <Lunar_Lander> ok
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[03:41] <Lunar_Lander> good night
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[06:19] <radicalbiscuit> Hello all. Any launches this weekend?
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[06:57] <radicalbiscuit> Hello all. Anyone alive this weekend?
[06:57] <radicalbiscuit> ;)
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[08:39] <Upu> http://iswa.gsfc.nasa.gov/downloads/20120123_052000_anim.tim-den.gif
[08:39] <Upu> recent solar particle event
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[08:56] <fsphil> nice view of it
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[09:30] <griffonbot> Received email: chrishillcox "[UKHAS] Formalisation thread"
[09:30] <griffonbot> Received email: Tom "Re: [UKHAS] Total beginner playing with microprocessors"
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[09:34] <fsphil> seems there is demand for a ublox6 module
[09:34] <Darkside> i'm wondering if it can be dome similar to the fsa03
[09:34] <Darkside> with the raw chip
[09:36] <fsphil> isn't that what upu's breakout is?
[09:36] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] Formalisation thread"
[09:36] <Upu> suppose I could make it smaller
[09:38] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] Total beginner playing with microprocessors"
[09:38] <Upu> Half considering buying the chips through work to get the break point pricing and selling them
[09:38] <fsphil> the smaller ublox chips look like a nightmare to solder
[09:38] <Upu> yeah
[09:38] <Upu> Reckon I could shift 50 uBLox6 modules ? :)
[09:39] <fsphil> at the rate I'm dumping them, yea ;)
[09:39] <Upu> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HMC5883L-BMA180-BMP085-ITG3200-Ublox-NEO-6Q-M-GPS-3-3V-/260789777975?pt=Radio_Control_Vehicles&hash=item3cb8483637
[09:39] <Upu> interesting
[09:40] <fsphil> ooh, sensor board
[09:40] <fsphil> the ublox has I2C
[09:40] <fsphil> doesn't it?
[09:40] <Upu> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/U-Blox-UBLOX-MAX-6Q-GPS-receiver-module-Sarantel-Antenna-RC-FPV-/260942939957?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cc1694735
[09:41] <Upu> thats what you want FSA replacement
[09:41] <fsphil> oh it does
[09:41] <fsphil> I wonder if we could use the I2C and free up another uart
[09:42] <Darkside> cripes thats expensive
[09:43] <Upu> which one ?
[09:43] <Darkside> the second one
[09:43] <Upu> the GPS only module ?
[09:43] <Darkside> USD$90
[09:43] <Darkside> yeah
[09:43] <Upu> yeah we could make that
[09:43] <Darkside> given how much we know the modules cost
[09:43] <Upu> both designs don't bother too much with putting the antenna in a straight line
[09:43] <Upu> from the RX pin
[09:43] <Upu> New project for this afternoon :)
[09:44] <Upu> that MAX-6Q looks solderable
[09:45] <Upu> I reckon that board has a vreg on it
[09:45] <Upu> and LED
[09:45] <Upu> not sure what the metal looking component is just below the GPS chip
[09:45] <Darkside> possobly a ferrite bead?
[09:46] <Darkside> or an inductor - is that a switchmode supply chip on the bottom right?
[09:46] <fsphil> you're right though, that does looks fairly solderable
[09:46] <Darkside> the NEO-6Q is also solderable
[09:47] <Upu> good point
[09:47] <Upu> that'll be it
[09:47] <Darkside> Upu: can you find out how much the MAX-6Qs are?
[09:47] <fsphil> "Build-in on board DC filters"
[09:47] <Upu> sure
[09:47] <Darkside> fsphil: aha, thats it, its a ferrite brad
[09:47] <Darkside> bead*
[09:47] <Darkside> Upu: i might need to order some NEO-6Qs from you at some point toon
[09:47] <Darkside> soon*
[09:47] <Upu> what did the FSA03 have on it ?
[09:47] <Upu> ok
[09:47] <Darkside> because i'm almost out
[09:48] <Darkside> Upu: the FSA03 doesnt have power filtering i think
[09:48] <Upu> we'll if we can get a big order together I'll do it through the company
[09:48] <fsphil> it has a capacitor
[09:48] <Upu> I won't put anything on it
[09:48] <fsphil> I'll order a couple too
[09:48] <Darkside> i'm wondering what the benefit of the MAX-6Qs would be
[09:48] <fsphil> use up the ones I have on the swift board
[09:48] <Upu> smaller
[09:48] <Upu> better
[09:48] <fsphil> use the smaller ones on a later revision
[09:48] <Upu> no idea :)
[09:48] <Darkside> i guess it doesnt do things like I2C or SPI
[09:49] <Darkside> but we dont use that anyway
[09:49] <fsphil> the -6Q does i2c
[09:49] <fsphil> at least according to this ebay page
[09:49] <Darkside> yeah, and we don't use it
[09:49] <fsphil> I'm going to try it
[09:49] <Darkside> hmm i might bring up the datasheet for the MAX-6q...
[09:50] <Darkside> ooh the MAX-6Q does have I2C
[09:50] <fsphil> aye
[09:51] <Upu> sure the NEO-6Q will have too then ?
[09:51] <natrium42> bitch, please
[09:51] <natrium42> give me AMY-6
[09:51] <Upu> lol
[09:51] <Darkside> AMY-6
[09:51] <Darkside> ?
[09:51] <Upu> http://www.u-blox.com/en/gps-modules/pvt-modules/amy-6m.html
[09:51] <natrium42> MAX-6 is too big
[09:51] <Upu> good luck sodlering it
[09:51] <Darkside> oh
[09:51] <Darkside> haha
[09:52] <Darkside> the AMY-6 is BGA
[09:52] <fsphil> oh wow
[09:52] <natrium42> solder oven!
[09:52] <Darkside> screw that
[09:52] <natrium42> i have contacts to get it soldered cheaply
[09:52] <fsphil> heat from below
[09:52] <natrium42> :P
[09:52] <natrium42> will just need 4 layer pcb
[09:52] <natrium42> if anybody wants to make it, i will hook you up
[09:52] <fsphil> could you have a grid of vias, solder it through the holes?
[09:52] <Upu> so
[09:52] <Darkside> haha
[09:52] <Upu> needs 4 layer
[09:52] <Upu> and is BGA
[09:52] <Upu> I'm out
[09:52] <fsphil> aaah layers
[09:53] <Darkside> natrium42: i'm working on a boost converter PCB that probably needs manufacturing
[09:53] <natrium42> talk to me, baby
[09:53] <natrium42> :D
[09:53] <Darkside> a little pcb that goes on the back of a 2xAA battery holder, and supplies 3.3V and 5V
[09:55] <UpuWork> I'll mail Alphamicro now and get some prices
[09:55] <Darkside> cool
[09:56] <Darkside> and find out what they'll do for an international buyer
[09:56] <Darkside> i'd rather not pay VAT :-)
[10:01] <Upu> done, I've asked for some engineering samples on the MAX6 too
[10:01] <Darkside> haha nice
[10:01] <Upu> If they are generous I'll mail you one
[10:01] <Darkside> woo
[10:01] <natrium42> for Upu Incorporated?
[10:01] <Darkside> also hows the switf boards going?
[10:01] <Darkside> swift*
[10:01] <Darkside> i heard there was a bug?
[10:02] <UpuWork> hardware bug
[10:02] <UpuWork> :)
[10:02] <Darkside> ouch
[10:02] <Darkside> what bug?
[10:02] <fsphil> uart dyslexia
[10:02] <Darkside> which uart?
[10:02] <fsphil> for the gps
[10:02] <Darkside> ouch
[10:02] <Darkside> thats a painful one
[10:02] <fsphil> yea, none of us noticed it
[10:03] <Darkside> mmm
[10:03] <fsphil> so the current board has some extra red wires
[10:03] <Darkside> im thinking i'll add the option for a gps on my cutdown pcb
[10:03] <Darkside> just so we can do some experiments with using the RFM22B as a telemetry transmitter
[10:03] <natrium42> Hi, I am an engineer with Darkside Inc, and we are considering using your GPS modules in our product. We are looking at quantities of 100k-500k initially. Please send us some samples to evaluate your product via Federal Express. Sincerely, Darkside (Design Engineer)
[10:03] <UpuWork> DarkCow http://imagebin.org/195436
[10:03] <UpuWork> grr
[10:03] Action: UpuWork slaps DarkCow
[10:03] <UpuWork> lol
[10:03] <fsphil> moo
[10:03] <Darkside> bahaha
[10:03] <Darkside> UpuWork: ouch
[10:04] <UpuWork> nothing that can't be fixed with one of the wifes scalpels and a microscope :)
[10:04] <Darkside> hehe
[10:04] <Upu> afk making a brew
[10:05] <fsphil> another option us using nss or a variant so we could still read the gps, but I'd rather not
[10:05] <fsphil> us/is
[10:06] <Darkside> sh?
[10:06] <Darkside> eh?
[10:06] <fsphil> new soft serial
[10:06] <Darkside> oh
[10:06] <Darkside> screw that
[10:06] <fsphil> disable the uart, configure nss to use the backwards pins
[10:06] <fsphil> yea
[10:06] <Darkside> bad idea
[10:06] <fsphil> very
[10:06] <Darkside> NSS is evil
[10:08] <Upu> :)
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[11:09] <cuddykid> any launches today?
[11:10] <Darkside> dont think so
[11:13] <fsphil> wind's a bit crappy
[11:13] <daveake_> Yep
[11:20] <daveake_> I'm going to go out and check how well the RFM22 does rtty over a distance vs the NTX2
[11:21] <number10> payload nearly done $$ANU,1086,11:20:35,52.038832,0.529575,126,6,18.0,18.0*006B
[11:21] <Darkside> daveake_: cool
[11:21] <Darkside> daveake_: i'm interested to see if we can cut down the RFM22 library
[11:21] <Darkside> because is pretty bloared
[11:21] <Darkside> bloateD*
[11:21] <Darkside> we don't need most of the functions
[11:22] <daveake_> I think jcoxon's is pretty cut down anyway. navrac modified that, and I'm using his plus a function from James's
[11:22] <Darkside> cool
[11:23] <daveake_> Program size downloaded to the Arduino is about 9k for the full program
[11:23] <Darkside> i'm more concerned about ram usage
[11:23] <number10> is the rfm22B library written on the arduino
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[11:23] <Darkside> yes natrium42
[11:23] <Darkside> number10:
[11:23] <daveake_> Yes
[11:24] <Darkside> dammit i want my RFM22s!
[11:24] <Upu> I have some here
[11:24] <Upu> if that helps
[11:24] <Upu> I can take apicture of them ? :)
[11:24] <daveake_> LOL
[11:24] <Darkside> pff
[11:24] <Darkside> if you shipped them here express they'd probably be here before the ones i ordered :P
[11:24] <number10> I was thinking of looking at the arduino rather than PICs , I didnt like the look of that nss stuff you use
[11:24] <daveake_> Set Darkside up for some remote development like you did with fsphil ;)
[11:24] <Upu> well bung me some money and I'll send them on
[11:25] <Darkside> Upu: naw its ok
[11:25] <Upu> Yeah :)
[11:25] <Darkside> they should be here next week
[11:25] <daveake_> number10 I use NSS for sending out SMS messages, and it's fine for that. GPS goes to the real UART
[11:25] <Darkside> number10: NSS is fine for output, not for input
[11:25] <Upu> going to make a break out for the RFM as well
[11:25] <Darkside> tbh most people do dodgy shit with input from the real uart anyway
[11:25] <Upu> that shouldn't be too hard
[11:26] <Darkside> arduino now has a serialEvent function
[11:26] <number10> well I had to write my oown stuf for the GPS string on the PIC
[11:26] <Darkside> Upu: i've already got a pcb library file for it
[11:26] <cuddykid> Upu: how much for rfm22?
[11:26] <number10> just a simple buffer on a serial interrupt and then parse the string
[11:26] <Upu> they are about £4.22 or something 1 sec I'll get the link
[11:26] <Upu> yeah but its in Altrium
[11:26] <cuddykid> oh wow :O
[11:26] <Darkside> Upu: Altium
[11:26] <Darkside> but yes
[11:26] <Darkside> :P
[11:27] <Darkside> i could make a breakout for it and you can have the gerbers
[11:27] <Darkside> :P
[11:27] <Upu> http://www.skpang.co.uk/catalog/rfm22bs2-smd-wireless-transceiver-22dbm-p-661.html
[11:27] <Darkside> also sparkfun already make breakouts
[11:27] <Upu> sorry 7.90
[11:27] <cuddykid> still good, thanks :)
[11:27] <Upu> cheaper than NTX2
[11:28] <Upu> however no ones flown them yet* so we have no idea on the drift
[11:28] <Upu> *at altitude
[11:28] <cuddykid> yep
[11:28] <cuddykid> will wait and see
[11:28] <Darkside> yeah this is the interesting thing about them
[11:28] <cuddykid> as I've 2 ntx2s :)
[11:28] <Darkside> epecially if i'm going to be uplinking to one
[11:28] <Darkside> i'm going to have to track the drift on the ground somehow
[11:28] <fsphil> didn't jcoxon fly one?
[11:28] <Darkside> ooh yeah he did
[11:29] <daveake_> If the wind gdods smile, I'll run one at altitude next weekend
[11:29] <cuddykid> the payload was damaged I think though
[11:29] <Darkside> carrier on and off, but he did...
[11:29] <fsphil> wasn't very high altitude, but the range seemed fair
[11:29] <Darkside> range isnt the issue
[11:29] <fsphil> drift wasn't too horrible either
[11:29] <Darkside> drift is
[11:29] <Darkside> mm
[11:30] <fsphil> although with the lower altitude the temperature won't have been as extreme
[11:30] <Darkside> i'm going to have more drift issues because this cutdown board is going to be relatively un-protected
[11:33] <fsphil> so you're doing a wireless cut-down?
[11:33] <Darkside> yup
[11:33] <fsphil> like that
[11:33] <Darkside> its going to be separate from the telemetry
[11:33] <fsphil> does the payload command it or done from the ground?
[11:34] <Darkside> my plan for the uplink is to have a recording of a low baud-rate OOK packet from a RFM22B
[11:34] <Darkside> and on the groun, we track the shift, and broadcast it
[11:34] <Darkside> probably using the CW function of our radios
[11:34] <Darkside> or something like that
[11:34] <Darkside> yes: we trigger it from the ground
[11:35] <Darkside> we'd have a packet that commands the payload the fire up the nichrome wire for 5 seconds (or whatever we deem necessary)
[11:35] <Darkside> another goal is to be able to trigger a solenoid which can release gas from the balloon
[11:36] <daveake_> Will it reply? "It's the di-lithium crystals, er, batteries, captain, they canna take any more of this cutdown"
[11:36] <Darkside> well the plan is to have it send heartbeat packets, with battery voltage, temperature, etc
[11:36] <Darkside> hell, i might even have provision on the PCB for a MAX-6Q
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[11:52] <cuddykid> hi CovBalloon :)
[11:53] <fsphil> I wonder if I could get a pico payload as far as yorkshire
[11:54] <fsphil> when there's a strong wind
[11:54] <fsphil> about a 300km journey
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[11:54] <cuddykid> don't think I'll ever trim my ~900g payload down to pico size!
[11:55] <Upu> Ready to catch it
[11:56] <fsphil> hmm... something to ponder
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[12:04] <fsphil> tracking it over the irish sea would be impossible
[12:05] <fsphil> unless I find someone near the coast
[12:05] <fsphil> or, I launch it near the coast
[12:05] <daveake_> Sounds like a plan
[12:06] <fsphil> yea, there's a nice big mountain over there. perfect spot to launch and track from
[12:06] <fsphil> it's a fairly long drive though (by my standards)
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[12:16] <number10> Darkside: do you know if its hardware that selects the difference between 868MHz and 433 on an RFM22B ?
[12:16] <Darkside> it partially is, yes
[12:16] <Darkside> there will be filters on the output
[12:16] <Darkside> and i think it neds a different crysta
[12:16] <daveake_> Yep. The board I have here is labelled for 433
[12:16] <number10> nothing easily modifyable then?
[12:16] <Darkside> number10: nnot really, no
[12:17] <number10> shame as this may have been of interest http://au.element14.com/quasar/rfm22b-868-d/module-transceiver-20db-868mhz/dp/1878263?Ntt=RFM22B-868-D
[12:17] <Darkside> yeah i've seen them
[12:17] <number10> oh ok
[12:17] <Darkside> itts funny that they sell them, as that band is a government land-mobile band in australia
[12:17] <Darkside> i.e. its illegal to transmit there
[12:17] <number10> ooo ar
[12:18] <number10> daveake_: where did you get yours?
[12:18] <daveake_> ProtoPic
[12:18] <Darkside> sparkfun reseller?
[12:18] <daveake_> Yep
[12:18] <number10> ta
[12:18] <daveake_> I keep them in business :D
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[12:19] <number10> this hab stuff is expensive
[12:19] <Darkside> hmm, might see if my contact in Shenzeng can get them cheaper
[12:22] <daveake_> Have been having trouble with the rfm22b stopping transmitting. Pretty sure the rfm22 resetting - if I reset the processor it then starts up again. It's fine when left alone but stops sometimes if I touch the electronics. I thought I must have a dry joint or near-short somewhere, but in the end I found it was power related. It's running from a lipower board delivering 3V3 direct to the Ardduino's 3V3 line (so bypassing the on-board regulator).
[12:22] <Darkside> is that sagging?
[12:23] <Darkside> whats the problem?
[12:23] <daveake_> Don't think so - does it with or without the GPS connected
[12:23] <Darkside> hrmm
[12:23] <Darkside> i'll have to check that one out myself
[12:23] <Darkside> i'm planning on using a supply using the same IC as is on the LiPower
[12:23] <daveake_> That's why I mentioned it :D
[12:23] <Darkside> the TPS612002
[12:23] <daveake_> I'll have a look at the circuit and I'll stick a 'scope on it
[12:23] <Darkside> wait, TPS612001 for 3.3v..
[12:24] <daveake_> Now I could set it for 5V and send that to the Arduino's regulator, which would be safer but will lose some uptime
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[12:24] <daveake_> I know the Arduino and GPS still run because I have that logging to the PC. It's only the RFM22 that stops
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[12:26] <daveake_> Also ..... listening to the rtty it sounds like it's "breathing" when the GPS sends. So the power line isn't as solid as it needs to be
[12:26] <daveake_> I have fairly long wires (approx 25cm) from lipower to Arduino, which won't help
[12:26] <Darkside> i'm putting a big capacitor on mine
[12:26] <Darkside> like, 100uF or so
[12:27] <daveake_> Yeah, I'm going to do that.
[12:27] <daveake_> Also, now the software is running OK, I can solder the GPS and lipwer up close and personal to the Arduino, so the wires will be much shorter
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[12:28] <daveake_> OK it still stops even with that cap
[12:28] <daveake_> It's fine when running from the USB programmer
[12:29] <daveake_> I'm off out now; shorter wires and big cap when I get back
[12:29] <daveake_> And I'll take a look with the scope too
[12:31] <Darkside> cool
[12:31] <Darkside> theres some kind of voltage sense reset function in it, isnt there?
[12:31] <Darkside> could that be the problem?
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[12:34] <daveake_> Yeah, I read that last night. I couldn't see a way of controlling that. I agree; I'm pretty sure it's that. The processor and BMP085 and GPS all keep running regardless.
[12:35] <daveake_> Also, as I said I have longish wires to the lipower. Those can be dropping a fair bit with the power being switched at 433MHz.
[12:35] <daveake_> I'll stick a large ceramic across the rfm22 power lines when I get back.
[12:37] <daveake_> Once sorted I'm ready to fly. Don't think there are any other listeners where the balloon would go tomorrow, so I'll probably wait till the winds take it towards Cambridge :)
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[12:41] <cuddykid> time to load up the code onto the main flight board
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[12:45] <cuddykid> compile error.. oh dear lol
[12:45] <cuddykid> all sorted :P
[12:48] <cuddykid> ergh, stupid arduino serial terminal monitor - keeps freezing
[12:50] <fsphil> written in java
[12:50] <BrainDamage> if the usb device becomes unavailable, the poll cycle goes insane and eats 100% cpu, like while(true)
[12:51] <cuddykid> fsphil: oh that explains it, I don't get on well with java
[12:51] <Darkside> hehe
[12:51] <Darkside> nn all
[12:51] <fsphil> night DarkCow ;)
[12:51] <Darkside> back in 9.5 hours...
[12:51] <Darkside> goddamn this DarkCow
[12:51] <cuddykid> lol cya this evening
[12:51] <Darkside> screwing up my nick complete
[12:51] <fsphil> The Moo side of the force
[12:52] <Darkside> hehe... 73s
[12:52] Nick change: DarkCow -> DzrkCow
[12:52] <fsphil> lol
[12:52] <cuddykid> it's an ambient 22.5 C in here apparently :P
[12:52] <fsphil> nice
[12:52] <fsphil> about 18 here
[12:53] <fsphil> bit chilly
[12:53] <cuddykid> time to hook up the gps and test this thing
[12:56] Action: fsphil stands back
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[12:56] <cuddykid> problem encountered :P
[12:56] <cuddykid> I have assigned 2 jobs to 1 pin & oops
[12:57] <chris_99> hi guys, does anyone know a good NMEA to longitude,latitude script for linux, that i could just run from the command line
[13:09] <cuddykid> not sure, sorry chris_99
[13:10] <chris_99> no worries, i'll probably hack up a little python script, it doesn't look too hard
[13:10] <Randomskk> yea I usually just do that in a quickly hacked up python script
[13:10] <Randomskk> you can basically just
[13:10] <Randomskk> with open("filename.txt") as f:
[13:10] <Randomskk> for line in f:
[13:11] <Randomskk> data = line.split(",")
[13:11] <Randomskk> if data[0] == "$$GPRMC":
[13:11] <Randomskk> print data[uhm.. some numbers here]
[13:11] <Randomskk> done practically
[13:11] <Randomskk> caveat: turn N/S and E/W into +/-
[13:11] <chris_99> cheers :)
[13:11] <Randomskk> and you might want to turn the minutes into decimal degrees
[13:11] <Randomskk> both easily done
[13:12] <cuddykid> oh dear - getting garbled strings :S
[13:12] <chris_99> i just bought a little usb->ttl converter to get a gps that was intended for my pda working on my PC, seems to be working fine too
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[13:21] <cuddykid> lol - I was sitting there for 5mins thinking why oh why aren't I getting any strings - only to find that I forgot to plug gps in :P
[13:23] <chris_99> haha
[13:24] <cuddykid> arghh - is there any way to sprintf a float in arduino?
[13:28] <Randomskk> you're kind of asking the wrong question
[13:28] <Randomskk> there are many ways to get a float into a string
[13:29] <Randomskk> sprintf isn't really one of them
[13:29] <Randomskk> dtostrf is one: http://www.nongnu.org/avr-libc/user-manual/group__avr__stdlib.html#ga060c998e77fb5fc0d3168b3ce8771d42
[13:29] <BrainDamage> atof() ?
[13:29] <Randomskk> BrainDamage: that's the wrong way around
[13:30] <Randomskk> cuddykid: the other popular solution is to multiply it by 1000 or 100 or 10000 or something and then cast it to an integer and print that instead
[13:30] <Randomskk> http://www.arduino.cc/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1164927646 has some other details
[13:30] <BrainDamage> ah, sorry, read it backwards somehow
[13:30] <cuddykid> ahh ok, thanks guys :)
[13:30] <eroomde> BrainDamage: rotatr your monitor round 180 degrees
[13:31] <eroomde> you'll find everything makes more sense
[13:31] <Upu> cuddykid convert to int
[13:31] <BrainDamage> eroomde: I tried, but then all those tiny little people that live in my irc client started complaining
[13:36] <number10> Upu, quest about fldigi if you have a mo?
[13:36] <Upu> shoot
[13:37] <number10> when it parses payload data (and you get either red or green) is it looking at more than just the crc - does it also check number of feilds etc?
[13:38] <Upu> sec phone
[13:40] <Upu> CRC
[13:40] <number10> ta
[13:41] <Upu> the server parses the fields and rejects the string if it doesn't match payload doc
[13:42] <number10> I dont have payload doc up there - but loacally if the crc is ok should get green
[13:43] <Upu> yep
[13:43] <number10> tnx
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[13:45] <number10> Upu - it also checks number of fields
[13:45] <Upu> ok
[13:45] <number10> working now - thanks anyway
[13:52] <number10> ignore my last statement - I think that was wrong Upu
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[14:29] <chris_99> Randomskk, i'm trying to use that style of python script but for some reason its not reading anything, its hanging before the for...in...
[14:29] <chris_99> *at the
[14:30] <chris_99> if i do f.read(100) and print that, it does seem to work
[14:30] <chris_99> so i guess its to do with line termination possibly
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[14:37] <navrac> I added extra decoupling on the 3v3 line and a 70uf which seemed to improve the reliasbility of the rfm22 - I had the same issue with it seeming to drop out after I touched it
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[14:39] <navrac> oops - hadnt noticed that conversation was some time ago - window hadnt scrolled
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[15:11] Nick change: daveake_ -> daveake
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[15:39] <Upu> right I've added the ublox MAX-6 to Ava.lbr Eagle library
[15:41] <Randomskk> any gotchas to look out for? I'm going to be making a kicad part soon enough
[15:51] <Upu> no its pretty simple
[15:51] <Upu> just watch top corner pads are 0.1mm thinner than main pads (0.7 vs 0.8)
[15:52] <Upu> not sure why I didn't pick this chip to start with its simpler and smaller
[15:58] <fsphil> logic says the bigger chips are easier
[15:58] <Upu> that might have been the way I was thinking
[15:58] <CovBalloon> is it possible to have to antennas on your balloon and switch between them with a relay so if your payload lands upside down you could switch antenna?
[15:59] <Upu> sounds overly complex
[15:59] <Upu> and you'll pick up the payload from 50 meters away with no antenna probably
[16:01] <CovBalloon> ok
[16:04] <daveake> Buzz1's aerial was squashed up underneath on landing, and I easily picked that up nearly a mile away
[16:12] <number10> I just tried to get in the car, thought the battery was flat in the keyfob.. it took a couple of secs to realise that wasnt the problem
[16:12] <daveake> :)
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[16:14] <number10> thats the second stupid thing I did today - first one was my crc wasnt working, and I just happend to change the number of feilds on fldigi at the same time the crc was correct
[16:15] <number10> and imediately assumed that was the problem
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[16:27] <nosebleedkt> http://www.glory.lt/
[16:27] <nosebleedkt> lithuanian near space project
[16:28] <fsphil-laptop> nicely made pcb
[16:29] <fsphil-laptop> no onboard pictures?
[16:30] <number10> looks like they payload weight was ~2kg
[16:30] <fsphil-laptop> "Therefore say that the pictures were taken from space, it is scientifically inaccurate" yay :D
[16:31] <SpeedEvil> I disagree.
[16:31] <SpeedEvil> You can have orbits as low as 30km.
[16:31] <fsphil-laptop> they used hydrogen too
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[16:31] <SpeedEvil> You just need a rather dense object.
[16:31] <fsphil-laptop> you'd be orbiting inside the atmosphere though, not space
[16:32] <nosebleedkt> https://www.facebook.com/www.glory.lt
[16:32] <nosebleedkt> also got facebook
[16:32] <SpeedEvil> fsphil-laptop: there is no clear definition of atmosphere.
[16:32] <SpeedEvil> IT's all quite arbitrary
[16:33] <SpeedEvil> For example 'mean free path of atoms exceeds a radian' might be one point.
[16:34] <fsphil-laptop> true, technically the ISS is orbiting in at least some atmosphere
[16:35] <fsphil-laptop> oops, he plugged the batteries in backwards
[16:36] <fsphil-laptop> I keep forgetting this is translated - google is getting good at this
[16:36] <LazyLeopard> Heh ;)
[16:37] <fsphil-laptop> well up until the part where it stopped translating
[16:38] <fsphil-laptop> ah, they never recovered it
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[16:59] <jcoxon> afternoon
[16:59] <number10> afternoon
[16:59] <daveake> afternoon
[17:00] <daveake> jcoxon, have you seen any strange stuff with the rfm22 powered from the lipower converter?
[17:00] <daveake> At the moment I have wires approx 25cm long between, and if I even hold the lipower board the rfm22 resets
[17:01] <jcoxon> daveake, i was investigating some issue with my setup
[17:01] <jcoxon> thats why i haven't launched
[17:01] <daveake> I left mine running overnight and it was just fine; it's just if I'm around that it plays up!
[17:01] <jcoxon> needs more decoupling then
[17:01] <daveake> Indeed
[17:01] <daveake> I'll do that later
[17:02] <daveake> It's happy when running from USB power via the programmer
[17:02] <daveake> Just thought I'd mention it in case you're having similar troubles
[17:02] <jcoxon> yeah i was finding it a little unreliable
[17:02] <daveake> The Arduino and BMP085 are happy with the arrangement but the rfm22 isn't
[17:02] <jcoxon> however the MK2 worked well (the one that we launched)
[17:03] <jcoxon> have you modded your lipower?
[17:03] <daveake> What happens is that it stops transmitting. If I reset the processor (thus initialising the rfm22 of course) it starts up as normal
[17:03] <daveake> No
[17:03] <jcoxon> planning too?
[17:04] <daveake> Well the decoupling needs to go on the rfm22, so yes I'll put a large ceramic across the supply pins there
[17:04] <jcoxon> so how many batteries are you running this all off?
[17:04] <daveake> None :)
[17:04] <daveake> Running from a 5V walwart at present
[17:05] <jcoxon> how many are you planning to run it off?
[17:05] <daveake> I need to measure the current then decide
[17:06] <number10> the walwart may well be a little noisy
[17:06] <daveake> All being well I have a Latex flight next weekend, and I'll run it as a test on that with the usual ntx2 payload
[17:07] <daveake> number10 yes, but my feeling is that it's those long (well not that long) wires
[17:07] <jcoxon> the lipower will shutdown if the V is less then 2.6
[17:08] <daveake> I tested with and without the gps connected, and it didn't seem to make a difference, so I don't think it's the constant load
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[17:15] <Upu> tell you something that UV filter they put on makes a difference
[17:17] <number10> probably also helps insulation rather than an open hole - I thought most people used them?
[17:17] <Upu> no subject to fogging up
[17:17] <daveake> Yeah, I've heard that said before. Did they do anything to stop it misting up?
[17:17] <number10> interesting
[17:19] <Upu> not sure Bello Mondo uses a dew heater
[17:19] <fsphil> that silica stuff should do the job
[17:20] <fsphil> as long as you don't eat it anyway
[17:20] <jcoxon> flush the payload with He before hand
[17:21] <number10> one thing I did see was a lense attachement for the cannon, fitted in a dry environment it maybe would work
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[17:23] <Upu> thats not a bad idea jcoxon
[17:24] <daveake> Extra lift :D
[17:24] <Upu> lol
[17:30] <navrac> daveake - i joined in when you were on earlier - except i hadnt realised that you had left and the window hadnt screolled. - I had to add a 470uf and a 100nf across the rfm2 - which improves things a lot - but if you touch the top of the rfm22 the crystal stops oscillating
[17:32] <daveake> !!
[17:34] <daveake> That may have happened to me - I had a few "now it works - now it doesn't" moments when testing the firmware - but when I investigated the issue properly the thing I found that always stopped the transmissions was touching the lipower (or sometimes just touching the power lines near to it)
[17:35] <navrac> I was trying to find what caused the drift and tuned into the crystal fundamental to see how capacitance effects it - it does. I suspect the selectable crystal capacitance which by default is 7f shouldnt be
[17:35] <navrac> Ill play a bit more in the morning - I'm drilling the mkii pcb whilst watching tv tonight
[17:36] <daveake> What's powering yours? I have the lipower set to 3V3 and that goes straight to the arduino, bmp085 and rfm22
[17:36] <daveake> I could set it to 5V and connect to the arduino reg, but that's wasting power
[17:37] <navrac> 1.5V>NCP1402 but it was just as bad when run from the 3.3 interface board
[17:37] <navrac> it is supply sensitive - I noticed that when i sent debug messages up the serial port I could hear the carrier play them as very mild rtty
[17:38] <daveake> Oh ok. It seems ok running from the USB programmer here
[17:38] <daveake> Yes, I said the same earlier!
[17:39] <daveake> I have the GPS sentences sent out the serial port (minus the $ bit otherwise the ublox tries to interpret them!) and I could hear the resulting noise from the receiver
[17:39] <CovBalloon> I'm still learning so please don't beat me over this question. Does any one use Hydrogen to fill there balloon and if not would anyone consider doing this?
[17:40] <daveake> CovBalloon - it has been done but very rarely
[17:40] <navrac> well ive improved the power layout on the mkii pcb so the power goes to the rfm first. Wife wassnt happy with me etching in the kitchen today though
[17:40] <daveake> Dunno if you saw the James May Man Lab series but one of the two balloons launched on that used it
[17:40] <navrac> its safety - plus helium is easy to get hold of. If I could afford one of those lab hydrogen generators i would
[17:40] <daveake> Its cheaper and gives a few percent more lift and there's the danger aspect for added excitement
[17:41] <daveake> And as navrac says it's more difficult to buy. Helium you can get from lots of places
[17:42] <navrac> it would make cutdowns easier - and more exciting to film
[17:42] <daveake> Not enough oxygen up there!
[17:42] <number10> especially as a cutdown has accidently gone off at ground level
[17:43] <navrac> oh true, hadnt thought of that
[17:43] <daveake> I was about to mention that ...
[17:43] <daveake> .... if I'd been there and there'd been a hydrogen balloon nearby, I'd need a fresh pair of trousers and underwear
[17:43] <number10> but the one you have are ak for a while ;-)
[17:44] <CovBalloon> so who is the cheapest source of helium?
[17:44] <navrac> In the UK?
[17:44] <CovBalloon> yes
[17:44] <daveake> number10 they've served me well for days now :D
[17:44] <daveake> I use balloonhelium.co.uk
[17:44] <number10> i dont beilive you manage to read my typos daveake :)
[17:45] <daveake> practice
[17:45] <number10> mmm
[17:45] <CovBalloon> what size do you get?
[17:46] <daveake> Usually a T which is 3.6 cu m
[17:46] <cuddykid> is there a facility in the backend to convert say "200" to 20.0C?
[17:46] <daveake> That's a BOC cylinder. There's also an Air Products N20 (I think) at 5.4 cu m which is about the same weight to carry around, and costs not much more
[17:47] <daveake> cuddykid Stuff like that has been done. You probably need to ask nicely :-).
[17:47] <cuddykid> daveake: haha, yes, I will remember my pleases and thank yous :P
[17:47] <daveake> I don't know if that one is built in or not
[17:49] <navrac> I decided to enter r harissons icarus challenge on element 1 - so I might get some more parts from farnell
[17:49] <Randomskk> cuddykid: yes
[17:50] <daveake> For cloud2 some code was added to convert my flight mode integer to a string - e.g. might have been "Cutdown Triggered"
[17:50] <jcoxon> cuddykid, do you really want it as a float?
[17:50] <daveake> Good point - I just send my temps as ints as that's plenty enough precision
[17:50] <Upu> cuddykid save your self weeks of pain convert everything to INT
[17:51] <Randomskk> I think he means transmit an integer 200
[17:51] <Randomskk> which is temp*10
[17:51] <Randomskk> and still int
[17:51] <cuddykid> I'm going to multiply temp (float) by 10
[17:51] <Upu> oh gotcha
[17:51] <Randomskk> and then habitat can convert it to 20.0C quite happily
[17:51] <cuddykid> and then cast to int
[17:51] <cuddykid> :D
[17:51] <cuddykid> brill :)
[17:51] <daveake> Divide by 10 and lose the dp
[17:51] <cuddykid> Randomskk: great :)
[17:52] <daveake> If you're using the DS18x20, set the conversion precision appropriately - saves a lot of conversion time
[17:52] <daveake> No point measuring to 0.125 degrees if you're only sending degrees
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[18:06] <cuddykid> casting a float to int should work correct with minuses? No funny things will happen will they?!
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[18:07] <Laurenceb_> http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/3/2/4/0/5/7/a4587511-74-DSCN7143.jpg
[18:08] <Laurenceb_> epic soldering fail
[18:08] <daveake> cuddykid Just make sure you're casting to a signed int and it's within range :)
[18:08] <daveake> Mr Blobby
[18:08] <cuddykid> ahh - that's a point
[18:09] <cuddykid> is arduino (atmega328) 16bit?
[18:10] <daveake> If it's temp in celcius you'll need to be an extreme environment to need more than a byte :)
[18:10] <cuddykid> haha
[18:10] <cuddykid> :P
[18:10] <cuddykid> for a mo I thought it was 8bit
[18:11] <cuddykid> clearly have done too much pen and paper 2's complement recently
[18:11] <Upu> AVR is 8-bit
[18:11] <DanielRichman> it is 8bit, but the default size of an int on avr is 16bit; gcc adds extra instructions to make it work
[18:11] <daveake> It's well worth (actually, essential) to find out what the various int sizes are for your compiler
[18:11] <cuddykid> oh good
[18:12] <DanielRichman> and memory addresses are 16bit, I believe; but all the registers are 8bit
[18:12] <number10> and then typedef
[18:12] <DanielRichman> eww
[18:12] <daveake> The chip word size affects speed but it's the compiler you care about more
[18:12] <DanielRichman> if you want to be confident, you can #include <stdint.h>, and then use uint8_t, int16_t (where the u is for unsigned; and the number is bits)
[18:13] <daveake> Yep. More readable that way
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[18:19] <jcoxon> ping fsphil
[18:19] <cuddykid> Hi WillDuckworth :)
[18:19] <cuddykid> shame about the winds today :(
[18:20] <costyn> daveake: yes, knowing the limits of your int's is quite essential as I found out :)
[18:21] <costyn> cuddykid: I had some strange outputs in my payload string; buffer overflows as it turned out
[18:21] <WillDuckworth> hi cuddykid - looked really good today - nevermind
[18:21] <jcoxon> just to say that habitat can cope with lat and lon as int
[18:21] <jcoxon> latitude / 10000
[18:22] <jcoxon> so you can never use floats now
[18:23] <WillDuckworth> how's habe2 cuddykid?
[18:23] <WillDuckworth> jcoxon: how's that small gps unit going?
[18:24] <cuddykid> WillDuckworth: yeah, a lovely day for it. It's coming along quite nicely, overcome a lot of hurdles in the past few days - just sorting out all the bugs in my code currently! :P
[18:24] <fsphil> pongy jcoxon
[18:24] <cuddykid> making sure my failsafe stuff for cutdown actually works! Hopefully not firing on launch lol
[18:24] <jcoxon> WillDuckworth, not done much more recently
[18:25] <jcoxon> fsphil, hehe - playing with SPoT and your encoding system
[18:25] <jcoxon> do you have the decode code still?
[18:25] <daveake> cuddykid make sure that includes the GPS telling you it's at 0 metres altitude for a while
[18:25] <fsphil> I should have, lemme check
[18:26] <navrac> jcoxon - how long did it take you to get lock on the GPS - it seemed to take 10mins with mine.
[18:26] <cuddykid> daveake: currently, the only "automated" cutdown is based on lat/long - I've implemented a feature to make sure it receives 10 gps strings outside the "safe area" before activating AND it has to be after a min of 1hr after payload turn on
[18:27] <daveake> ok
[18:28] <jcoxon> navrac, ummmm
[18:28] <jcoxon> i have poor view of sky
[18:28] <jcoxon> but only a few mins
[18:28] <fsphil> jcoxon, http://pastebin.com/qdGWVbuK
[18:29] <fsphil> that's the decoder, with some test coordinates in there
[18:29] <jcoxon> :-)
[18:30] <navrac> im just building a daughterrboard for it so i can experiment with ground planes - i bust another two last week while desoldering to experiment. oh and BTW thanks for all your work on the rfm - its made life really easy for those of us that follow
[18:30] <daveake> ^^^
[18:31] <jcoxon> navrac, thats no problem
[18:31] <navrac> well it was so quick when following your examples it felt like cheating.
[18:31] <daveake> ^^^
[18:31] <jcoxon> now you guys have to actually make it work
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[18:32] <daveake> btw navrac I tried your freq shift code and I seem to get slightly better results with the original setFrequency() calls instead
[18:32] <navrac> well it works - lots of great bits to play with in there - Ive been playing with crystal tuning, the temp sensor etc
[18:32] <daveake> jcoxon I think the wiki should suggest adding caps (navrac has 470uF elec + 100nF poly I think) to decouple the rfm22
[18:33] <navrac> really - i got two disitnctive steps using setfrequency
[18:33] <daveake> Yeah lots to play with
[18:33] <navrac> still drifts like b&ggry though
[18:33] <daveake> I'll test for longer to confirm
[18:34] <daveake> This is without any antenna, and my AR8000 a few feet away
[18:34] <jcoxon> daveake, add to the wiki
[18:34] <daveake> will do. I need to add the caps and test it fixes it here, then I'll do that
[18:34] <navrac> I'd wait - I think theres a lot more we'll discover
[18:35] <daveake> I'm sure, but it could save someone some time
[18:35] <navrac> I suspect the programmable crystal cap is the source of some of the problems
[18:36] <navrac> i might go up and play for a few mins with it - im bored of drilling the pcb
[18:37] <daveake> Much to learn with the rfm22, we still have :)
[18:38] <navrac> the chip data sheet is much better than the module one
[18:38] <number10> yoda
[18:41] <daveake> quick you are :)
[18:45] <Laurenceb_> how much drift do you see?
[18:46] <daveake> Lots as it warms up. Haven't measure it yet.
[18:46] <daveake> Once warmed up it's stable, so it's just "just" the temperature to worry about
[18:47] <Laurenceb_> probably their choice of xtal
[18:48] <navrac> ive just tried playing with the xtal cap - a value of 0x60 seems to my ear to be a lot more stable - less susceptible to stray capacitance
[18:49] <navrac> and with the caps and that it doesnt seem to cut out at all.
[18:49] <navrac> not 100% definite but worth trying
[18:51] <navrac> oh by the way daveake - 0x60 givess a frewquency shift of 30KHz upward - so it hasn't gone off - just moved sa long way
[18:51] <Laurenceb_> eek thats not good
[18:51] <Laurenceb_> no xtal should drift that much
[18:51] <Laurenceb_> id guess you had wrong capacitance
[18:52] <navrac> no its stable just the calculated figure is no longer accurate.
[18:53] <navrac> and since the crystal is 0mhz or so multiplied up - thats 1.5k shift of the crystal
[18:53] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[18:53] <Laurenceb_> unless its a really poor xtal it shouldnt have that much tolerance
[18:53] <Laurenceb_> id guess the oscillator is pulling it
[18:54] <cuddykid> I've well and truly cocked something up here - I now have void setup() looping lol
[18:55] <navrac> well at £7 retail for the whole module that is designed for short range i guess a good xtal would be too expensive
[18:56] <navrac> cuddykid - clever - good for resetting frequently
[18:58] <daveake> navrac Sorry was away posting about HAB on another forum :D
[18:59] <daveake> I need to read the chip manwell and try a few things
[18:59] <navrac> no probs - would be intersted if you stick 60hex into reg 9 does yours seem less effected by capacitance etc
[18:59] <daveake> I'll test that
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[19:01] <navrac> without all my test eqpt to hand im having to do things by ear so its nice if someone hears/sees the same
[19:03] <daveake> I have a Picoscope and a couple of handheld scopes, so I can look at the audio. Don't have anything that can manage the Xtal
[19:04] <daveake> Easier to see the drift on the audio anyway
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[19:07] <cuddykid> this is really odd :S
[19:07] <daveake> What you broke now? ;)
[19:07] <cuddykid> lol
[19:07] <cuddykid> daveake: the whole of my code :P
[19:07] <daveake> Out of memory
[19:07] <cuddykid> It's now stuck in a loop running the setup code
[19:08] <daveake> Out of memory
[19:08] <cuddykid> quite possibly
[19:08] <daveake> Could be your code, but that's my bet :)
[19:08] <cuddykid> how do I flush all memory?
[19:08] <DanielRichman> maybe you should paste your code :P
[19:08] <DanielRichman> also, setup() looping might be due to it crashing and restarting
[19:09] <daveake> Yep
[19:09] <cuddykid> all I did was alter some SD card stuff from closing the file to flushing the file
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[19:10] <cuddykid> just going to cross check against older code
[19:10] <navrac_> im not sure its better now - it did seem to be better but when i carried it doen to put it in the freezer it seemed even worse
[19:10] <navrac_> and bust the laptop power lead so now reoldering it
[19:11] <daveake> afk - have to go cook
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[19:16] <cuddykid> it's the SD card stuff that's killing the code - I'm guessing it's because I ran the code when there wasn't a command to close the file - and then the next time it runs it's trying to open something that's already open and killing itself! But& that would mean that it stores it all in permanent memory?
[19:17] <daveake> Try running the SD card separately in a test program.
[19:17] <jcoxon> spi takes up lots of memory i think
[19:18] <DanielRichman> spi itself is quite light; it's the sd card software that will munch ram, since sd cards have to be read and written in 512 byte blocks
[19:18] <daveake> It's easily possible (btdt) to waste a lot of time chasing a bug when the fault is triggered by a lack of memory
[19:18] <DanielRichman> if you run out of memory on an avr, the stack will grow into the heap and smash up whatever variable was unlucky enough to be there, or writing to a heap variable might scribble all over your stack
[19:19] <DanielRichman> the latter could reset the cpu quite quickly if it jumps somewhere bad
[19:19] <daveake> In my case it was adding PDU/SMS/NSS code to the existing program, which already had the SD library in it.
[19:20] <daveake> Yep, restarts seemed to be the main result. Also some code doing unexpected things (ISTR sprintf producing a string it couldn't/shouldn't have)
[19:20] <DanielRichman> I think I should port the lightweight sd card stuff used on alien to arduino as a logging library... it used 5 bytes of RAM
[19:21] <cuddykid> yep it's this line -> " logFile = SD.open("log.txt", FILE_WRITE); " that's killing it
[19:21] <DanielRichman> oh, that's a lie, it used a few more than that; more like 30bytes
[19:22] <cuddykid> mustn't have been closed properly
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[19:23] <daveake> 30 - not bad :)
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[19:25] <SpeedEvil> DanielRichman: err - how did it avoid buffering a sector?
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[19:25] <DanielRichman> no FAT, stop the spi clock between log messages
[19:25] <daveake> ooer, interesting
[19:26] <cuddykid> right - is there someway of flushing all memory to see if that solves it?
[19:27] <daveake> Or with the size of SD cards these days, just pad the sectors will nulls
[19:27] <daveake> Still struggle to fill one up during a flight
[19:28] <DanielRichman> hah, yeah
[19:28] Lunar_Lander (~gd-fermi@p54A064A0.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:29] <Lunar_Lander> hello especially to CovBalloon and Dr jcoxon
[19:30] <jcoxon> hello Lunar_Lander
[19:30] <Lunar_Lander> how is the life?
[19:30] <jcoxon> not bad thanks
[19:30] <Lunar_Lander> that is good to hear, same here too
[19:32] <navrac> just stuck the module on top of the fire +26c then into the freezer at -13c it drifted off by 1khz at first but then drifted back within 200hz as it cooled to -13
[19:34] <daveake> That doesn't sound too bad
[19:35] <daveake> Buzz1 had very little (well, ineffective really) insulation and that drifted miles in flight
[19:35] <navrac> i assumed as the temperature falled it would change linearly - but it seems to inflect instead
[19:36] <Lunar_Lander> it would be interesting to study completely the thermodynamics of a balloon payload
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[19:39] <navrac> -18 still pretty good - I think its the startup drift thats bad - the inuse seems pretty good
[19:39] <jcoxon> navrac, is this just hte carrier?
[19:39] <jcoxon> or the rtty?
[19:39] <navrac> yep
[19:39] <navrac> just the carrier at the moment
[19:40] <navrac> i broke the laaptop lead so the current measuring device is the radio and a guitar tuner....
[19:41] <navrac> the signal wont make it to my study
[19:41] <daveake> navrac Yeah I saw an inversion when I applied freezer spray :)
[19:43] <navrac> I'll stick it back on rtty in a bit but from how it works the shift shouldnt drift at all so rtty should be fine. Its certainly good enough for me
[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> did we ever had a payload on fire so far?
[19:45] <daveake> Planning on being a first?
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[19:47] <Lunar_Lander> xD no
[20:12] <Hiena> Groan. Anybody knows, how to set up papal account with Maestro card?
[20:13] <Lunar_Lander> whoa shit
[20:13] <Lunar_Lander> I'm just watching something about like the worst TV station in germany
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> there was a "show" on a couple who alledgly kept out of village life and the TV team constructed situations to obtain footage which gave the couple a bad image, although the couple had requested help
[20:15] <Lunar_Lander> and the husband just said that one day late at night people walked up who looked like right-wing members and shouted stuff like you only hear on the football field
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[20:27] <cuddykid> problemo: this code works - http://pastebin.com/VRr0qzE7
[20:27] <cuddykid> & this one doesn't...
[20:27] <cuddykid> http://pastebin.com/tH7KFHfA
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[20:28] <cuddykid> and in the second code snippet it's line 26 -> logFile = SD.open("log.txt", FILE_WRITE); that causes it to fail and reboot
[20:31] <x-f> i'm guessing it runs out of memory
[20:31] <Laurenceb_> http://i.imgur.com/pgxaB.png
[20:32] <Laurenceb_> kalman is working on Dactyl XD
[20:32] <x-f> cuddykid, i had the same problem with SD lib, so i went to SdFat lib - it worked better
[20:32] <x-f> Fat16 might also be an option
[20:33] <Lunar_Lander> btw is Upu here?
[20:33] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Congrats!
[20:33] <cuddykid> weird thing is, I've never had a problem with SD lib until now - and thats a result of changing all the logFile.close() to logFile.flush()
[20:34] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Have you considered getting sponsorship from fantasy writers? Then it could be Pterry Dactyl.
[20:34] <Laurenceb_> heh
[20:34] <x-f> cuddykid, does it work in a test sketch, where is nothing else but the SD code?
[20:34] <Laurenceb_> the kalman is being a little weird
[20:35] <Laurenceb_> it seems to stabilise after a few minutes
[20:35] <Laurenceb_> im not sure how much of the problem is due to nearby radiator
[20:35] <cuddykid> x-f: if I code out line 26 then the whole thing works perfectly (apart from SD stuff as expected)
[20:35] <SpeedEvil> Deltat-t?
[20:35] <Laurenceb_> huh?
[20:35] <SpeedEvil> too many t's
[20:36] <SpeedEvil> Changes in temp dur to the radiator.
[20:36] <Laurenceb_> no - maynet field
[20:36] <Laurenceb_> *magnetic
[20:36] <SpeedEvil> ah
[20:36] <SpeedEvil> Oh - permittivity
[20:36] <Laurenceb_> the yaw is rather unstable
[20:36] <Laurenceb_> it was doing this http://i.imgur.com/GSJrM.png
[20:36] <Laurenceb_> that should be a linear ramp in yaw
[20:37] <Laurenceb_> after a while its stopped oscillating tho
[20:37] <Laurenceb_> http://i.imgur.com/x34nY.png
[20:38] <Laurenceb_> there was constant ~+-10degree oscillation on the yaw
[20:38] <SpeedEvil> Odd.
[20:39] <Laurenceb_> i think it may be due to the field being off
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[20:52] <danielsaul> Laurenceb_: What is Dactyl?
[20:52] <Laurenceb_> autopilot board
[20:53] <danielsaul> ah - for planes? copters?
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[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> wb daveake_
[20:55] <daveake_> hiya
[20:56] <daveake_> navrac I've put a 100nF poly across the power pins on the rfm22
[20:56] <daveake_> plus a 100uF nearby
[20:56] <daveake_> Still dies
[20:57] <daveake_> I'll shorten the power lines see what happens
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> daveake_: do you know Enrico Fermi?
[21:00] <Laurenceb_> both
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> two Fermis?
[21:03] <daveake_> Short leads not helping :(
[21:03] Action: daveake_ Running out of ideas
[21:05] <cuddykid> I'm running out of ideas about how to fix this weird stack overflow :S
[21:05] Action: fsphil-laptop is getting lost in his own code
[21:06] Action: x-f can't fix camera's screen.
[21:06] <daveake_> New debug method: Everyone passes their problems to the person on their right ;)
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:07] <cuddykid> lol
[21:09] <Lunar_Lander> well what I wanted to say
[21:09] <Lunar_Lander> Fermi studied at Pisa and in the 1920s, there were public urinals at some road corners
[21:09] <Lunar_Lander> those had a small water basin
[21:10] <Lunar_Lander> and fermi and the others used to sneak up when someone stood there and threw sodium into the water
[21:10] <fsphil-laptop> public urinals? not much changed then
[21:10] <daveake_> He could have done better than sodium :)
[21:10] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:11] <fsphil-laptop> what's that metal that explodes with a really bright flame when dropped in water? :)
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> xD Potassium probably
[21:11] <fsphil-laptop> that's it
[21:15] <daveake_> Right, found ze issue with the rfrm22 resetting when I touch the lipower board ...
[21:15] <jcoxon> uhuh
[21:15] <fsphil-laptop> you're negatively charged?
[21:16] <daveake_> lol
[21:16] <daveake_> The o/p voltage varioes wildly when I touch certain components
[21:16] <cuddykid> this is *seriously* weird :P
[21:16] <daveake_> So it's my resistance and/or capacitance
[21:17] <daveake_> The latter could be quite large till I get on a diet :D
[21:17] <fsphil-laptop> that's very odd
[21:17] <daveake_> Yep
[21:17] <daveake_> I saw ~4.7V and 2.something on the DMM as I prodded
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> yesterday I heard of an english woman who didn't eat anything else chicken nuggets for 15 years
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> *than
[21:18] <fsphil-laptop> so if it's only certain power supplies, is it just they don't like the human part of the circuit?
[21:18] <daveake_> Well this specific human :)
[21:19] <fsphil-laptop> any strong signal sources nearby? maybe you're acting like an antenna
[21:19] <daveake_> Just the rfm22 itself
[21:20] <fsphil-laptop> the 817 PSU has a problem with 70cm signals
[21:20] <fsphil-laptop> the voltage drops quite a bit unless the cable is wrapped around one of those ferrite clips
[21:20] <fsphil-laptop> although that's at much higher power, few watts
[21:21] <cuddykid> fortunately dropbox saves old versions of files :D cross checking now
[21:21] <daveake_> It does. I like dropbox
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[21:22] <fsphil-laptop> I've had a few "ohh!" moments with "git diff", where I've made a silly change to the code but can't find it
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[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> daveake_: are you into gaming also?
[21:28] <cuddykid> arghhhhhhhhhhh
[21:29] Action: cuddykid is restraining from obliterating the arduino
[21:29] <daveake_> Lunar_Lander - Nah, I got addicted to Asteroids when at Uni (a long time ago, obviously) so I steer clear now
[21:29] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> but do you know the most physics-related game of our time?
[21:31] <daveake_> fsphil-laptop I've powered down the rfm22, and have the lipower on its own. O/P normally 3.3V. Stick finger onto a couple of 24k resistors on the board and the o/p goes up to around 5.4V
[21:32] <daveake_> Cancel the 24k - can't read small writing :)
[21:32] <daveake_> They say 224 ... 220k then
[21:33] <daveake_> I can imagine having an effect with those high values then
[21:33] <daveake_> Circuit here - http://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/Prototyping/LiPower-v11.pdf
[21:33] <daveake_> The Rs that select 3.3V or 5V are 1.2M and 2M
[21:34] <daveake_> Someone was trying to save power methinks
[21:37] <daveake_> fsphil-laptop It's me changing the resistance that's doing it. I put a piece of paper between the board and my finger, to see if it was capacitance and me acting as an antenna, and the voltage didn't change.
[21:39] <daveake_> It needs a conformal coating
[21:39] <fsphil-laptop> hmm
[21:39] <daveake_> Seen the circuit? And the high R values used?
[21:40] <daveake_> I'm around 1M according to this meter
[21:41] <fsphil-laptop> but you're not in circuit
[21:41] <daveake_> I am if I hold the board and am touching any components
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[21:45] <cuddykid> it can't be good for my duino to be rebooting this many times!
[21:45] <Lunar_Lander> (22:16:18) daveake_: The o/p voltage varioes wildly when I touch certain components
[21:45] <Lunar_Lander> what is o/p?
[21:45] <daveake_> Output
[21:46] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:46] <Lunar_Lander> and which components do you touch to induce an effect?
[21:47] <daveake_> My fingers are fatter than the board :D
[21:47] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[21:47] <daveake_> But the 2 220k ones at the bottom of http://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/Prototyping/LiPower-v11.pdf
[21:47] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:49] <daveake_> I realise this is all a bit artificial, as I won't be near it when it's flying, but it could definitely cause the rfm22 to reset when assembling a payload, or could perhaps destory something though too many volts. Also payloads fly through clouds so moisture could be an issue.
[21:49] <daveake_> So it needs protection
[21:49] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> what exactly happens on a rfm22 reset?
[21:51] <fsphil-laptop> what have you done to the poor thing cuddykid
[21:51] <daveake_> Well I'm assuming reset, but what I see is the rtty stops and the rfm22 switches to the default frequency (not one of the 2 rtty ones). The processor keeps running and the BMP085 stays working. Resetting the processor gets the RFM22 started again.
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[21:52] <daveake_> The rfm22 has some automatic reset circuitry to cope with power issues
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> so that would work on if it happens on the balloon?
[21:52] <daveake_> After reset it needs to be initialised again
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[21:53] <daveake_> So the firmware could test for a reset (should be easy enough - test a setting that is changed during initialisation) then re-init if necessary
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:53] <daveake_> Changing peecee ...
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[22:02] <cuddykid> fsphil-laptop: I've killed the whole arduino - got it stuck in a boot loop because of some stupid SD library that I can't pin down properly
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[22:06] <Lunar_Lander> and the reset button doesn't work?
[22:06] <Lunar_Lander> wait
[22:07] <Lunar_Lander> that doesn't reset the programming, right?
[22:07] <cuddykid> it works fine if I load another script
[22:07] <Lunar_Lander> what arduino do you have cuddykid?
[22:07] <cuddykid> "killed" is probably a little strong :P but I'm extremely puzzled
[22:08] <Lunar_Lander> do you have one with removable CPU?
[22:08] <cuddykid> arduino decime&.. (something something!)
[22:08] <Lunar_Lander> ah
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[22:08] <cuddykid> the chip is still fine thankfully
[22:08] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander> the idea was that you could insert another chip which is blank or only has the bootloader
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander> to get out of the program deadlock
[22:09] <cuddykid> yeah, it hasn't gone that badly wrong fortunately :D
[22:09] <cuddykid> I've resorted to going back to an older version of my code and changing it step by step
[22:09] <daveake> cuddykid Either take the crashing code out and test on its own in a test program, or remove some code from your main program to reduce its memory requirements. You need to find out if you're chasing a real bug or you're just out of memory
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[22:10] <cuddykid> daveake: I'm almost certain it's out of memory but due to SD.open
[22:10] <daveake> It could be either, and you can waste a lot of time chasing a bug when there's no bug to find
[22:10] <cuddykid> my old code works - so going to run with that
[22:10] <daveake> Yes, so you have to reduce the amount of memory you're using
[22:10] <cuddykid> but the problem is in the SD library
[22:11] <cuddykid> not my code
[22:11] <daveake> No, if the problem is you're really tight on memory, then that's just one possible issue. If you get round that one you'll get another one the moment you use a bit more memory.
[22:12] <cuddykid> daveake: I've got 3+kb spare
[22:12] <daveake> RAM
[22:13] <daveake> If you're out of ram, the stack hits used memory then all bets are off
[22:14] <daveake> You can have a program that works just fine, then you make some tiny little change and the thing reboots or behaves strangely, and you'll not know why. If you're out of ram you need to get that sorted.
[22:15] <daveake> I got this on my first payload, and with little time left to launch I just removed all the SMS code. That code worked just fine in a test program, but its mere presence (not even calling it) in the main program caused the Arduino to reboot. Sound familiar?
[22:16] <cuddykid> the only reason I am out of RAM though is because of dodgy SD library
[22:16] <daveake> Sure, so ditching that would be a good plan
[22:16] <cuddykid> this whole problem started from changing logFile.close() to logFile.flush()
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> how do you find out how much RAM is remaining?
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> by the line that is displayed while programming arduino?
[22:16] <daveake> Yeah but that's probably because the latter uses more stack
[22:16] <daveake> Tricky
[22:17] <daveake> I tried some code I found on the web. Didn't work.
[22:17] <cuddykid> and even though I've reverted back, there is still a problem when it tries to open file on SD
[22:17] <daveake> well the contents of the SD card may change the way the code runs
[22:18] <daveake> Believe me, if you are out of ram you'll get endless random issues till you gain some to spare
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander> my current sensor transmission program has 500 lines
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> but that isn't really a measure on how much ram it uses, right?
[22:20] <cuddykid> personally, I think I'm fine on ram, I think it's a dodgy SD card library bug something to do with not calling close() - therefore it goes to obliterate the stack
[22:21] <cuddykid> right - modified old code - I believe I'm back to where I left off
[22:21] <Laurenceb_> this is on avr?
[22:22] <cuddykid> atmega328
[22:22] <cuddykid> so yeah
[22:22] <daveake> cuddykid that is possible
[22:22] <cuddykid> all working now - using old version that's been modified
[22:22] <daveake> If it is ram, you'll have more reboots soon :)
[22:22] <cuddykid> still annoying that I can't get to the bottom of the other one
[22:23] <cuddykid> yeah!
[22:23] <daveake> No, if it's ram (I'm sounding like a broken record here) you'll never get to the bottom of it.
[22:23] <cuddykid> lol
[22:24] <cuddykid> is there like an SRAM.flush() ?
[22:27] <daveake> No, you have static variables (globals etc) and dynamic ones on the stack. Globals exist all the time and the stack ones are created/freed on the way in and out of functions
[22:27] <cuddykid> hold on a mo&& I *think* I've found the bugger!...
[22:28] <cuddykid> this is odd
[22:28] <cuddykid> :P
[22:28] <cuddykid> YEPP!
[22:28] <cuddykid> :D
[22:29] <cuddykid> right, this is very very very weird (or at least I think so)...
[22:29] Action: fsphil-laptop sits comfortably
[22:29] <cuddykid> bug (reboot in middle of setup loop) is present when
[22:29] <cuddykid> 2 Serial.println lines are in another function that gets called by main loop
[22:29] <cuddykid> the two lines are...
[22:30] <cuddykid> Serial.println("*************ALERT************");
[22:30] <cuddykid> Serial.println("***** ACTIVATING CUTDOWN *****");
[22:30] <fsphil-laptop> memory
[22:30] <cuddykid> with them - bug
[22:30] <cuddykid> without, no bug
[22:30] <fsphil-laptop> those strings take up sram
[22:30] <cuddykid> ahhh
[22:30] <cuddykid> kaboom
[22:30] <fsphil-laptop> unless you put them in progmem
[22:30] Action: daveake is smug
[22:30] <cuddykid> daveake: :D
[22:30] <fsphil-laptop> smug mode engaged!
[22:31] <cuddykid> so, I'm near my limit?!
[22:31] <fsphil-laptop> sounds like it
[22:31] <fsphil-laptop> do you have many strings?
[22:31] <daveake> I'm near mine LOL
[22:31] <cuddykid> lol
[22:31] <fsphil-laptop> who are you again? :)
[22:31] <cuddykid> quite a few serial.prints
[22:31] <daveake> I forget
[22:31] <cuddykid> I'll slim down
[22:31] <fsphil-laptop> try this cuddykid: http://arduino.cc/en/Reference/PROGMEM
[22:32] <fsphil-laptop> although I'm not sure if arduino's serial.print functions can read from progmem directly
[22:33] <daveake> Yeah, I tried some of that and it was a PITA
[22:33] <DanielRichman> PROGMEM is great
[22:33] <cuddykid> ohh nice :)
[22:33] <cuddykid> doesn't the flash memory on arduino have a limited number of read/writes (lifespan)?
[22:33] <DanielRichman> you can write a wrapper function to print a progmem string char by char if arduino doesn't have one
[22:34] <fsphil-laptop> true
[22:34] <fsphil-laptop> there are no read limits
[22:34] <fsphil-laptop> your program is being read constantly so there better not be :)
[22:36] <daveake> :)
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[22:38] Action: daveake imagines his payload's flash wearing out and the program slowly dying .... "$$CLOUD,1871872818,10Daisy,Daisy, Givvvv....."
[22:38] <cuddykid> lol
[22:39] <cuddykid> I guess the big ram guzzlers here are float stuff and SD stuff
[22:39] <daveake> SD yes. Float will be more code (flash) mainly assuming you don't have arrays of floats
[22:40] <fsphil-laptop> I do wish atmel would make an avr with more than 8k of ram
[22:40] <fsphil-laptop> 64k can't be difficult these days
[22:40] <daveake> yeah
[22:40] <cuddykid> I thought the atmega328 had 32kb?
[22:40] <fsphil-laptop> that's flash
[22:41] <cuddykid> oh
[22:41] <daveake> Last year I was using a PIC with 96k
[22:41] <daveake> (not for hab)
[22:41] Action: cuddykid waits for the raspberrypi
[22:41] <fsphil-laptop> it's actually only 2K of SRAM
[22:41] <fsphil-laptop> 2048 bytes
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[22:44] <fsphil-laptop> is there a way to measure how much sram a program is using?
[22:45] <fsphil-laptop> there's avr-size but I don't really understand what it's saying
[22:46] <daveake> You'd have thought, but I looked before and did find some code but it didn't work
[22:46] <fsphil-laptop> $ avr-size hadie.out
[22:46] <fsphil-laptop> text data bss dec hex filename
[22:46] <fsphil-laptop> 15030 524 989 16543 409f hadie.out
[22:46] <fsphil-laptop> cryptic
[22:46] <daveake> :)
[22:47] <daveake> Problem is it's variable as the stack grows and shrinks
[22:47] <daveake> Plus any malloc/free going on if supported
[22:47] <fsphil-laptop> I've avoided those so far
[22:48] <daveake> Ditto.
[22:50] <cuddykid> hold on&.
[22:50] <cuddykid> if the serial.prints are stored in ram
[22:51] <cuddykid> then why aren't they lost as it's power cycled? Or do they just get created each time?
[22:51] <fsphil-laptop> they're stored in flash too, and copied into ram on startup
[22:51] <daveake> recreated, yes
[22:51] <cuddykid> ahh right
[22:51] <Upu> daveake very interested in the RFm22 performance
[22:52] <Upu> will be tracking
[22:52] <Upu> do you want a 1.6kg ballon ?
[22:52] <fsphil-laptop> PROGMEM tells it not to copy into sram
[22:52] <daveake> shame they're not copied to ram as-needed
[22:52] <fsphil-laptop> but you then need to use special functions to access it
[22:52] <fsphil-laptop> not difficult though
[22:52] <fsphil-laptop> a wrapper like DanielRichman suggested would be simple
[22:53] <daveake> Compiler could generate the code either side of the printf
[22:53] <DanielRichman> there are examples in the avr-libc docs
[22:53] <daveake> alloc/copy/use/free
[22:53] <daveake> Upu: hmm, tempting offer :)
[22:53] <Upu> I really need to get this one used
[22:53] <DanielRichman> daveake: only for const things though
[22:54] <Upu> if you have the gas its yours
[22:54] <DanielRichman> also malloc sucks :P
[22:54] <daveake> DanielRichman, yes, like the printf stuff mentioned above
[22:54] <fsphil-laptop> malloc in a machine with 2k ram is nuts
[22:54] <daveake> Yes
[22:54] <daveake> Upu yes please :)
[22:54] <DanielRichman> fsphil-laptop: the avr size output is:
[22:54] <Upu> mail me your address I'll get it across to you
[22:54] <DanielRichman> text - flash based program data (instructions)
[22:54] <daveake> will do
[22:55] <DanielRichman> data - statically initialised sram stuff like strings, or int blah = 23;
[22:55] <Upu> get that RFM as high as we can to test it :)
[22:55] <daveake> Upu I could deliberately float it see how far it can be tracked
[22:55] <DanielRichman> bss - zeroed sram: takes up no space in the flash; gcc just marks out an area of ram and memsets it to zero at boot and thats where those variables live (i.e., char whatever; or char blah = 0;)
[22:55] <Upu> your payload
[22:55] <DanielRichman> dec and hex are totals
[22:55] <daveake> Upu I can do height :D
[22:55] <DanielRichman> (someone correct me if I'm wrong).
[22:56] <fsphil-laptop> thanks DanielRichman
[22:56] <Upu> I'm just interested in the drift on that module
[22:56] <fsphil-laptop> that seems to make sense
[22:56] <daveake> OK
[22:56] <DanielRichman> once you've used objdump to convert to .hex, the data section will be added to text to give you the final size of your data in flash
[22:56] <DanielRichman> and the others will be zero
[22:56] <DanielRichman> (for whatever reason)
[22:56] <fsphil-laptop> yea I seen that
[22:56] <DanielRichman> there's also a funky flag you can specify to the linker that makes it generate a map of the memory
[22:56] <DanielRichman> let me see if I can find it
[22:56] <fsphil-laptop> 15.5k total for this firmware
[22:57] <fsphil-laptop> loads of room left in the flash
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[22:58] <daveake> Upu sent
[22:58] <DanielRichman> okay if you pass -Wl,-Map=hadie.map to your linking gcc line
[22:58] <DanielRichman> and have a look at the file created
[22:58] <fsphil-laptop> ooh
[22:59] <fsphil-laptop> lodsa data
[22:59] <Lunar_Lander> are you discussing how to program a uC the "proper" way?
[22:59] <daveake> Prediction for next Saturday looks OK. Hope this time it doesn't change too much :)
[22:59] <Upu> got it daveake, do you have a works address or is that a works address ? :)
[22:59] <Upu> it'll need a signature
[22:59] <daveake> Same - I work from home
[23:00] <Upu> no problems it'll be with you on Tuesday
[23:00] <daveake> Excellent
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> hello andrew_apex
[23:00] <fsphil-laptop> Smithers! Release the balloons
[23:00] <Upu> lol
[23:01] <DanielRichman> fsphil-laptop: yeah it's a bit verbose but it's interesting seeing where everything ends up
[23:01] <daveake> I have a notam for next weekend and I'll launch cloud3 then. I can go over to cambs to launch the 1600g/rfm22
[23:01] <Upu> super
[23:01] Action: daveake should have got a bigger cylinder :)
[23:01] <DanielRichman> and you can see how big various components of your program are (although you can run avr-size on individual .o files to see that)
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[23:07] <fsphil-laptop> might try it on a smaller program
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[23:20] <cuddykid> hmm - currently I have a big "while(serial.available()) loop in my void loop()& why does stuff outside of that while loop get executed even when gps is connected?
[23:20] <cuddykid> is it because serial is maybe once every __ seconds?
[23:21] <fsphil-laptop> there will always be times when serial.available() is false
[23:22] <fsphil-laptop> it just tells you if there are any characters ready to read
[23:22] <cuddykid> doesn't look like I can remove it either, as parsing the gps stuff depends on reading byte after byte
[23:22] <fsphil-laptop> if the code in your loop is fast enough, it'll finish before the next character has arrived
[23:22] <cuddykid> I thought so fsphil :)
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[23:23] <cuddykid> this lassen is awful - got a clear view of 1/2 the sky by the window yet no lock whatsoever!
[23:25] <daveake> I use an external aerial when developing with the Lassen, and I stick that outside on the windowsill.
[23:25] <cuddykid> good idea
[23:25] <cuddykid> looks like I get 4 loops of outside the while loop in-between gps messages (when no lock)
[23:27] <cuddykid> I stuck the temp stuff outside while loop on 1st flight and it worked ok, guess I'll roll with that then :)
[23:28] <fsphil-laptop> as long as the serial buffer doesn't overflow it'll be fine
[23:28] <cuddykid> I don't think the lassen sends strings often (I stand to be corrected though)
[23:30] <cuddykid> tomorrow I'll test my integration of the uplink - something tells me many more problems are going to appear!
[23:31] <daveake> 2 per second default
[23:31] <daveake> (1 each of GGA and RMC)
[23:31] <daveake> If you have lots of things in the loop, but they don't all need to run each time, consider running one thing per loop
[23:32] <cuddykid> yep
[23:32] <daveake> e.g. things like temperature and pressure measurements I have them check the time and only run every 10 seconds (something like that), and not in the same loop
[23:33] <cuddykid> yep - I've stuck them outside all the gps stuff - priority is gps :)
[23:33] <cuddykid> today has summed up what I love about HABing - it's tough, but rewarding :P
[23:34] <cuddykid> (some make it tougher than others lol)
[23:34] <daveake> It'd be much less fun if it was easy
[23:34] <cuddykid> indeed
[23:34] <daveake> And you must be having a lot of fun :D
[23:34] <cuddykid> lol
[23:35] <cuddykid> progress is slow, but sure
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[00:00] --- Sun Jan 29 2012