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[00:39] <SpeedEvil> Things you should not laugh at. (very gory) http://r721.livejournal.com/10526.html - second comment.
[00:52] <russss> urgh
[00:52] <russss> wtf
[00:57] <russss> I just can't really fathom how you're reduced into such a fine paste before you hit the intake turbine
[00:58] <russss> science, I guess.
[00:58] <russss> :/
[00:59] <Darkside> ok
[00:59] <Darkside> i didn't need to see that
[01:00] <Darkside> please label following posts like that [NSFL]
[01:02] <SpeedEvil> Sorry.
[01:02] <Darkside> its ok
[01:02] <Darkside> i've seen some worse thigns on 4chan
[01:02] <Darkside> but that is pretty bad
[01:03] <russss> this is interesting though http://investigativereportingworkshop.org/flying-cheap/incident/20060131X00140/1/
[01:03] <russss> almost sounds like suicide, although that can't be proven
[01:06] <russss> "One mechanic positioned himself on the inboard side of the right engine and the other mechanic on the outboard side of the engine." Rather them than me...
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[08:01] <UpuWork> morning
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[08:06] Nick change: daveake_ -> daveake
[08:11] <eroomde> morning UpuWork
[08:11] <eroomde> daveake: i like your suggestion
[08:12] <daveake> :)
[08:14] <daveake> I did a test during the week, driving with the payload up and down some hills to test the code that decides when to send an SMS. It was a bit bizarre when my Android phone read out the incoming texts to me :)
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[08:17] <daveake> "currency currency CLOUD comma eighteen colon fourteen ...."
[08:17] <daveake> (ok I missed the sequence number there!)
[08:26] <fsphil> woo, snow
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[09:15] <UpuWork> so whats predictions looking like ? Still splash down ?
[09:15] <daveake> Very wet
[09:16] <UpuWork> shame
[09:16] <WillDuckworth> same here :(
[09:16] <daveake> Yeah, for a change I'm actually ready this time but the weather isn't :(
[09:18] <fsphil> weather's been really bad for launches for a while now
[09:21] <daveake> I think I'll cheer myself up by making a payload. I can fit the Buzz electronics plus a Canon camera in one of those poly balls.
[09:21] <daveake> Chance to use that pink paint :D
[09:22] <Randomskk> is the predictor website working okay for everyone in terms of the "run prediction" button being visible?
[09:23] <daveake> I've been meaning to mention that ....
[09:23] <daveake> .... usually it's off the bottom of the screen and I tab to it
[09:23] <Randomskk> since dec 23rd...
[09:24] <daveake> It's working ok on my netbook though it didn't for a while
[09:24] <daveake> I'm using Chrome; dunno if that makes a difference
[09:26] <fsphil> it's sometimes only half visible in firefox
[09:26] <fsphil> but usually fine
[09:26] <fsphil> I think it started when the notam overlay was added
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[09:32] <Randomskk> okay, refresh and it should be okay now.
[09:32] <daveake> yep :)
[09:33] <daveake> Now if you could just fix my prediction so it lands on land, that would be spiffing
[09:33] <Randomskk> hehe i'll open a pull request ;)
[09:34] <daveake> :)
[09:38] <fsphil> does nature have a buzilla? :)
[09:40] <Randomskk> it's a well-kept secret :P
[09:43] <daveake> Have you tried turning it off then on again?
[09:55] <fsphil> ah, if only that worked
[09:55] <daveake> I didn't say it'd work
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[10:19] <griffonbot> Received email: Richard Frewin "[UKHAS] Total beginner playing with microprocessors"
[10:23] <navrac> hows the rfm going daveake
[10:23] <daveake> Well it's soldered :)
[10:23] <daveake> I'll work on it over the weekend
[10:24] <navrac> its remarkably easy - i have a sample rfb sketch if you want it
[10:24] <daveake> s'ok, I've been looking at jcoxon's code.
[10:26] <daveake> I've got the boards piggy-backed on the Arduino - http://imgur.com/1MraU
[10:26] <daveake> The fsa03 is going on like that too
[10:26] <navrac> I found for switching the frequencies for rtty its most stable if you just flick the register 73 from 0 to 1 or 2 for 156/312 hz shift for the
[10:27] <navrac> well it weighs less than my daughterboard arrangement
[10:27] <daveake> Cheers. Depending on timing, I might fly it first as a second payload on a latex flight
[10:27] <navrac> and probaly more reliable than a homebrew pcb
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[10:28] <daveake> I found some pins that happened to line up (almost - the pitch is different!) so I could solder 2 pins either side
[10:28] <navrac> mines designed to fit in the neck of a howee to measure the internal vs external differential so I can take later flights to the highest safe float height
[10:29] <daveake> :)
[10:29] <navrac> well its close enough to 2.54 with a bit of bending
[10:29] <daveake> I read "hwoyee" as "hoover" and thought you were testing the pressure sensor :D
[10:30] <navrac> oh for hellsc I turn the power down and up rather than turning the tx off - that seemed to be more stable too - although just jumping to a wildly different frquency might be better
[10:30] <navrac> i do that with a tiny bit of tubing and suck...
[10:30] <daveake> :)
[10:31] <daveake> Does the rfm22 code work OK if called under interrupt?
[10:31] <daveake> My NTX2 code works that way
[10:32] <navrac> since I'm out of pcb material and postie didnt bring it, I'm experimenting putting the 22b into receive mode between sends and seeing if I can talk to another rfm stuck into a yagi for a short range uplink
[10:32] <navrac> cant see why it wouldnt
[10:32] <daveake> neither can I but was just checking in case you'd tried it and it'd failed
[10:33] <navrac> no - didnt try it
[10:33] <daveake> ok. I will be.
[10:34] <fsphil> I hope they're fast enough for 300 baud
[10:36] <navrac> I should think so - the internal code on the rfm changes the same registers to do its transmitting
[10:37] <fsphil> good sign
[10:37] <navrac> If I get 2 mins at lunch time I'll see how fast it goes
[10:41] <navrac> pcb stuff just turned up so its another etching and drilling weekend for me
[10:44] <navrac> the rfm uplink can go on hold. But no 4 way headers in the delivery. I wonder if I can cut a 6 way into two twos
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[11:00] <fsphil> mmm.. total solar eclipse in November, visible in queensland
[11:01] <Darkside> yep
[11:01] <Darkside> i'm hoping to go to it
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[11:01] <fsphil> just got an email about it, the IAA is organising a trip to it
[11:01] <Darkside> heh
[11:01] <Darkside> looong flight
[11:02] <fsphil> very
[11:02] <fsphil> "Experience the casual and rewarding lifestyle of the tropics" :)
[11:02] <fsphil> expensive too
[11:03] <Darkside> BAHAHAHA
[11:03] <daveake> navrac Are you using the standard rfm22 Arduino library, or a modified one?
[11:03] <fsphil> lol
[11:03] <Darkside> casual and rewarding
[11:04] <Darkside> its going to be november...
[11:04] <Darkside> hot and humid lifestyle
[11:04] <Darkside> daveake: ooh RFM22 stuff?
[11:04] <Darkside> i've got 6 ordered
[11:04] <fsphil> yea was thinking that
[11:04] <daveake> Yep
[11:04] <fsphil> oooh
[11:04] <daveake> PicoBuzz
[11:04] <Darkside> and this weekend i'm making a PCB for one
[11:04] <fsphil> it'll be winter here. I'm going!
[11:04] <Darkside> fsphil: we're talking like 35 degrees and 60% humidity
[11:04] <Darkside> its not nice
[11:04] <fsphil> hmm
[11:05] <Darkside> daveake: i'm plannign on using a RFM22B as an uplink
[11:05] <navrac> standard - there are two though -I'm using the RFM22 not the other one
[11:05] <Darkside> so the pcb i'm designing is basically going to be a cutdown board
[11:05] <Darkside> radio -> atmega (for smarts) -> FETs for switching thenichrome on
[11:05] <navrac> same here darkside
[11:06] <Darkside> not going to have any telemetry down from the rfm22 on this one
[11:06] <Darkside> just a heartbeat signal
[11:06] <daveake> Darkside Yeah, that's the next step after I get it transmitting ok :)
[11:06] <Darkside> hehe
[11:06] <Darkside> i'm still waiting for mine..
[11:06] <navrac> im cycling the rfm between rtty down and receiver for the uplink.
[11:06] <Darkside> i want the entire thing to run off 2xAAAs
[11:06] <Darkside> or maybe 2xAAs if AAAs can't power the nichrome
[11:07] <navrac> but I will cheat and inadvertently connect the output of the groundstation rfm22 to a 12db gain antenna
[11:07] <daveake> Buzz1 had 3 AAAs but the processor rebotted when the nichrome came on
[11:07] <daveake> rebooted even
[11:08] <Darkside> i'm going to be using a boost converter
[11:08] <Darkside> hopefully i'll be able to handle some voltage sags
[11:08] <daveake> Maybe a supercap?
[11:08] <Darkside> yeah maybe
[11:08] <Darkside> depending on how much space i have free on this PCB i'm going to have the option for a GPS and stuff
[11:09] <Darkside> so i can use it for telemetry if i want
[11:09] <Darkside> navrac: have you got the RFM22B doing RTTY?
[11:09] <Darkside> as in, RTTY decodable with fldigi
[11:10] <Darkside> i'm guessing it'd be possibly by putting it on carrier mode and reprogramming the frequency register a lot
[11:10] <navrac> yes - I just switch the fine tune register from 0 to 2 (reg 73) and it gives me a 312Hz shift
[11:10] <Darkside> cool
[11:10] <Darkside> how fast can you do it?
[11:10] <Darkside> 300 baud?
[11:11] <navrac> I will tell you after lunch if I dont get stuck at my desk - but i think it will do 300 at a guess - I've only tried 50 so far - need to look up the delay for 300 on an 8mhz chip
[11:11] <Darkside> mm
[11:11] <daveake> If I get mine going I'll try 300 baud, from a timer
[11:11] <Darkside> yeah thats probably the best bet
[11:12] <Darkside> something to try for sure
[11:12] <Darkside> i'll have to get these PCBs done over the weekend so I can get them manufactured asap
[11:12] <Darkside> they're going to be rectangular PCBs, with holes in each end for payload line
[11:12] <fsphil> I'll be quite chuffed if it can do 300. having a transceiver on board could be very useful
[11:12] <daveake> My method is quicker, if not (nearly) as neat :-) http://imgur.com/1MraU
[11:13] <Darkside> at one end will be some kind of connector for the nichrome wire
[11:13] <Darkside> daveake: thats what i'll be doing at first
[11:13] <Darkside> i'm gonna wire it onto a bit of veroboard and use it on a breadboard
[11:13] <daveake> 2 of the SPI pins happen to be next to each other in the same orde on the frm22b and the arduino
[11:14] <Darkside> mm
[11:14] <daveake> scuse shit tipping
[11:14] <daveake> The pitch is different, but close enough over 2 pins
[11:14] <Darkside> the board is certainly worthy of investigation
[11:14] <Darkside> because it may be our replacement for the radiometrix modules
[11:15] <Darkside> and it might be our (well, in australia) way of getting away from the ISM band
[11:15] <daveake> If it does the job as well or better, is lighter and cheaper and smaller and more configurable....
[11:15] <Darkside> yup
[11:15] <Darkside> and if it can work as an uplink...
[11:15] <Darkside> even if its just by replaying packets from it on a bigger radio
[11:15] <daveake> of course, I missed that bit :)
[11:16] <daveake> Saves keeping stock of NTX2s on different frequencies
[11:16] <Darkside> yup
[11:16] <Darkside> completely re-tunable
[11:16] <Darkside> what we need is some smaller, cut-down libraries for it
[11:16] <daveake> So we can have mass launches :D
[11:16] <Darkside> because the RF22 libraries ar ehuge
[11:16] <Darkside> thats the other thing we need to check - drift with temperature
[11:17] <daveake> Upu mentioned that ... if I can get this pico payload running soon, then I can fly it together with my main payload on my next flight
[11:17] <Darkside> cool
[11:17] <Darkside> or just put it in a freezer
[11:17] <daveake> Then we can see how it behaves when cold
[11:17] <daveake> Yep
[11:17] <Darkside> i can't wait to get mine
[11:18] <daveake> Got mine from protopic next day :)
[11:18] <Darkside> lol
[11:18] <Darkside> well sparkfun was out of stock
[11:18] <Darkside> as was our local distributor
[11:28] <fsphil> protopic are handy
[11:30] <fsphil> though for certain things they're quite pricey
[11:40] <daveake> Yeah, but always quick delivery which is handy
[11:41] <daveake> If I flew Buzz instead of cloud3 I could just about invade France :D http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=221d88f97ed792df5b50b9371fdff4d446705a66
[11:47] <navrac> ok - the rfm22b does do 300baud
[11:47] <daveake> You couldn't wait for lunch then :D
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[11:49] <navrac> nope - curiosity got the better of me - I'm suprised it worked given my guess at the timing value
[11:49] <cuddykid> time to write some CHDK magic
[11:50] <navrac> drifting like b*ggery though
[11:50] <daveake> :-) Guess + check on logic analyser. Works for me
[11:50] <cuddykid> this time no pesky bugs&
[11:50] <navrac> logic analyser and scopes are all 200 miles away where I left them after a job
[11:51] <daveake> :-(. I have one of those little USB jobbies. Great for this sort of thing.
[11:51] <daveake> (logic analyser, I mean)
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[11:51] <daveake> Decodes i2c, spi, rs232
[11:52] <navrac> there are two rfm libs - one tiny one which i use and one large one
[11:52] <daveake> Ah ... linky or something to google for?
[11:53] <navrac> I'll have a quick search
[11:53] <daveake> The one I have here has a basic rf22 library plus others that fit on top
[11:53] <daveake> ta
[11:53] <Randomskk> I really like the Saleae Logic
[11:53] <daveake> I see that jcoxon has a modified one too
[11:53] <Randomskk> especially the new 16 bit one
[11:53] <Randomskk> wait, you're asking about rfm libs, never mind.
[11:53] <daveake> Both :)
[11:53] <daveake> I have the 8-way Salae
[11:53] <Randomskk> same, it's great
[11:53] <daveake> Yep
[11:54] <daveake> I love that you can leave it running for a while, then zoom it to the interesting bit. Nice UI.
[11:54] <daveake> It is the only one I've ever used, but I like it and it works great for my uses
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[11:56] <daveake> I need to put labels on the little box - I keep getting ground wrong
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[11:57] <Randomskk> in the first release, getting ground wrong meant the thing died :P
[11:57] <daveake> whoops
[11:57] <navrac> https://github.com/niloc132/arduino-rfm22
[11:58] <daveake> Cheers :)
[11:58] <navrac> but I stole the setfrequency routine from the RF22 library and put it in the rfm22 library
[11:59] <daveake> Yeah, that looks familiar having scanned through the one jcoxon uses
[12:00] <cuddykid> a whole day of HAB - glorious
[12:01] <navrac> yep that was my tarting point. The rfm22 library you can set the frequency in by poking the registerss - then i saw james had nicked stuff from the other library so I copied his idea and just dragged across routines that I need to keep the size down
[12:01] <daveake> :)
[12:02] <navrac> well the whole thing including spi, Serial and onewire for the entire payload is 16k
[12:02] <navrac> and tinygps etc
[12:03] <daveake> Yeah, I don't use tinygps, so mine will differ
[12:04] <daveake> No onewire either in this one. I was planning on using the temp sensor in the rfm22
[12:04] <daveake> The bmp085 has one but that only goes down to zero
[12:04] <navrac> well with no serial and just the onewire/spi/rfm22 libraries its about 8k
[12:17] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] Total beginner playing with microprocessors"
[12:18] <fsphil> the rfm has a temperature sensor?
[12:18] <daveake> Yep
[12:18] <fsphil> interesting. I wonder if they use that to counter frequency drift
[12:20] <daveake> "The crystal frequency adjustment can be used to compensate for crystal production tolerances. Utilizing the on- chip temperature sensor and suitable control software, the temperature dependency of the crystal can be canceled."
[12:20] <fsphil> ahh, so it doesn't do it by itself but provides it for that purpose
[12:20] <daveake> I think thast answers your question - they left it as an exercise for the reader
[12:20] <fsphil> this chip keeps getting more interesting
[12:20] <daveake> http://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/Wireless/General/RFM22B.pdf P36
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[12:31] <navrac> i wonder if after each burst of rtty I could use the xtal shift to play a tune to help identify it.
[12:33] <daveake> :-)
[12:34] <fsphil> I had the ntx2 playing the mario kart theme a few weeks ago... very badly
[12:34] <daveake> For Buzz I did consider it sending out "To 40km and beyond!" at the appropriate time
[12:44] <navrac> the crytal change is a lot more coarse than the standard frequency control
[12:46] <navrac> about 750hz a step
[12:46] <cuddykid> I have my old script working with modified CHDK
[12:47] <cuddykid> now to integrate new script
[12:47] <cuddykid> does anyone know if the A570 can do interrupts lol?
[12:47] <fsphil> chdk can just about take photos :)
[12:47] <cuddykid> lol
[12:48] <cuddykid> guess I'm going to have to call get_usb_power after every shot
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[12:54] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] Total beginner playing with microprocessors"
[12:55] <cuddykid> oh wow - the chdk forum is one of the worst I've ever seen
[12:55] <cuddykid> oh no, my bad, just the home page that's bad :P
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[12:58] <daveake> I bet Zaphod Beeblebrox is a whiz at soldering. He never needs a "helping hand"
[12:59] <LazyLeopard> I bet there's a rule "You always need one _more_ hand..." ;)
[12:59] <Laurenceb_> thats what she said
[12:59] <daveake> :)
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[13:05] <cuddykid> problems galore
[13:12] <cuddykid> oh hello - "Stack full"
[13:12] <Laurenceb_> from the camera?
[13:12] <cuddykid> err thanks CHDK for storing the photos on the stack :S
[13:12] <cuddykid> yep
[13:12] <Laurenceb_> lol
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[13:13] <cuddykid> managed 4 photos :P
[13:17] <daveake> For recursion see recursion?
[13:18] <cuddykid> :O
[13:19] <cuddykid> never knew the A570 had an accelerometer in
[13:19] <joph> daveake, depend's on the devices which you solder ;)
[13:19] <joph> for smd you regularily don't need a helping hand
[13:19] <daveake> Yeah, for storing portrait or landscape
[13:20] <Laurenceb_> is you use a stencil you only need one hand
[13:20] <daveake> joph I was chasing a connector round the desk
[13:20] <daveake> The helping hand wasn't handy
[13:21] <daveake> PicoBuzz now talking GPS and BMP085. RFM22 now wired up fully so that's next
[13:21] <daveake> Lipower converter also connected and working
[13:21] <cuddykid> problem - when I switch "to a different mode" e.g. video - all my photo settings e.g. superfine, aperture etc get lost :(
[13:23] <daveake> Strange. All I've done with CHDK is take stills (I use a separate camcorder), so not sure I can help
[13:23] <cuddykid> yeah, I'm pushing CHDK to it's extremes :P
[13:23] <daveake> You realise you have a special skill for attracting problems, don't you? :p
[13:24] <cuddykid> using a modified version of it lol - asking for trouble
[13:24] <cuddykid> yes daveake :D
[13:24] <joph> i'm using a little vice, a self holding tweezer and a helping hand, depends on the thing i solder ,)
[13:24] <daveake> Ideal for a job in QA
[13:24] <daveake> A little vice is good
[13:25] <cuddykid> :P
[13:27] <cuddykid> lol - reduced all the times in between changing settings to 100millis and then watched the chdk destroy it's self
[13:27] <cuddykid> it gets all confused
[13:28] <daveake> Is there a later CHDK for that camera?
[13:28] <cuddykid> urmm, probably, but not a modified one for my various odd requirements
[13:29] <cuddykid> the amount of stuff that could go wrong with the next launch is level - extreme lol
[13:29] <joph> CHDK is great :D
[13:30] <joph> may you should try a stable build
[13:30] <cuddykid> joph: CHDK has stupid number limits - as I learnt from HABE1 :D
[13:30] <cuddykid> resulting in nada photos
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[13:38] <SamSilver_> welcome daviddjc david is the most common name in this room
[13:38] <daviddjc> hello, so it seems
[13:38] <SamSilver_> your nick would suit me
[13:38] <cuddykid> all we need now is David Miller :D
[13:38] <SamSilver_> as my real name is David John McCash
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[13:39] <daveake> :)
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[13:40] <daveake> Ooer a whistle from the rfm22 :)
[13:41] <daveake> Just during init. Not trying to make it send yet
[13:41] <daviddjc> Any of u just see the lego man balloon launch on the bbc news? to say im alittle gutted is an understatement, as i myself have had a rig with a lego astronaut ready to go for many months but been unable to launch due to the weather, so i guess its bk to the drawing board of what 'fun' thing to put up there, damn UK weather and the North sea lol
[13:41] <daveake> ping navrac
[13:41] <navrac> hello
[13:41] <daveake> I have a NASA spacebear astronaut I want to send up sometime
[13:42] <daveake> navrac Any reason setFrequency() is missing from your lib?
[13:42] <navrac> that was someone elses build of it - just cut and paste it from jcoxons example straight into the lib
[13:42] <daveake> I have done :-). Just wondered
[13:43] <daveake> btw total prog size is just over 9000 bytes
[13:44] <daveake> It'll grow a bit of course as I put the calls in for rtty
[13:44] <navrac> thats not too shabby - I've just used the delay method of timing - seems stable enough
[13:44] <daveake> I noticed the transmitter comes on for a short while during init
[13:44] <navrac> how are you finding the drift on yours?
[13:45] <daveake> Oh not got that far!
[13:45] <daveake> I've been soldering up the GPS and drawing up the circuit. Only just now started on the rfm
[13:45] <navrac> yep the library blips it on - oh the library by default sets the power to 20dbm which is a bit juice heavy
[13:45] <navrac> and doesnt give 20dbm either!
[13:46] <daveake> :-). Do you know what db, would be equivalent to the NT2?
[13:46] <navrac> 10dbm=10mW
[13:46] <daveake> That's easy then :)
[13:46] <Laurenceb_> 20=100mw
[13:46] <daveake> Gottit
[13:47] <navrac> which I think is radio1.write(0x6D, 0x03);
[13:47] <daveake> Yes, heavy
[13:47] <daveake> Okeydokey
[13:47] <Darkside> how much current does it draw at 100mW?
[13:47] <Laurenceb_> ~80ma
[13:47] <Darkside> ok thats fine
[13:47] <Darkside> i'll have a 200mA supply
[13:47] <Laurenceb_> its very efficient
[13:47] <Darkside> using a NCP1402
[13:48] <Darkside> i'm calling this cutdown board 'osiris'
[13:48] <Darkside> the god of death
[13:48] <daveake> lol
[13:48] <Darkside> as it kills the flight
[13:48] <daveake> Put a red shirt on it
[13:48] <Darkside> maybe i should call it icarus
[13:48] <gonzo__> don't use sealing wax
[13:48] <navrac> im using the ncp1402 - it seems to drop out at about 120mA off 1.5V when very cold
[13:48] <Darkside> nah, we're going with egyptiam mythology here
[13:48] <daveake> http://thumbsnap.com/Ew6lPLuo
[13:48] <Darkside> navrac: we'll be running from 3v
[13:48] <Darkside> but thanks for the info
[13:49] <Laurenceb_> i dont get it
[13:50] <daveake> In Star Trek, anyone beaming down to a new planet whilst wearing a red shirt got killed.
[13:50] <navrac> the characters in red shirts always seemed to die on away missions
[13:50] <Laurenceb_> oh
[13:50] <daveake> I had to explain it to Mrs Dave too :(
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[13:52] <fsphil> I love that they kept that tradition with the movie
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[13:55] <fsphil> http://vulcanstev.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/trek-expendable.jpg
[13:55] <daveake> :-). http://technabob.com/blog/2011/05/05/star-trek-redshir-t-shirt/
[13:55] <NigeyS> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-16759220
[13:56] <NigeyS> anyone we know ?
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[13:57] <daveake> Blimey, that makes cloud3 look tiny :)
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[13:58] <NigeyS> hehe
[13:58] <navrac> probably why it burst at 24k
[13:58] <NigeyS> An 11m-wide asteroid will pass within 60,000km of Earth on Friday
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[13:58] <NigeyS> oh noes, end of the world!!!
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[13:59] <LazyLeopard> daveake: http://www.cbc.ca/news/offbeat/story/2012/01/25/lego-balloon-space.html
[13:59] <LazyLeopard> Same story, a few days back and closer the launcher's home...
[14:00] <LazyLeopard> Also a few more words than the BBC saw fit to publish... ;)
[14:01] <fsphil> here we go with the space again
[14:01] <NigeyS> it's NEAR space .. grrr :p
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[14:01] <fsphil> not even near
[14:02] <NigeyS> well kinda..sorta..near
[14:02] <NigeyS> although "i sent a balloon to half way into space" doesnt have quite the same ring to it i guess
[14:04] <daveake> Blimey that rfm drifts quickly when warming up
[14:04] <daveake> I'll turn the power down :)
[14:04] <fsphil> "20 odd miles up" is still pretty impressive
[14:05] <daveake> 25.5 :D
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[14:06] <SamSilver_> Kenny wore a red hoody!
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[14:10] <daveake> navrac Well, it sounds like rtty but it's drifting quicker than a cruise liner about to hit the rocks...
[14:11] <daveake> Wohoo rfm22 timer rtty being decoded :)
[14:11] <daveake> That was too easy :) (thanks to navrac and jcoxon it is!)
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[14:13] <navrac> well jcoxon did the bulk - but it drifts like nobodies business
[14:13] <daveake> It does. I caught up with it eventually.
[14:14] <navrac> it does stabilize after a bit -sort of
[14:14] <daveake> yeah, sort of
[14:14] <navrac> it seems to e turning the tx on and off causes the biggest problem
[14:15] <daveake> Yeah. I just leave it on all the time and change frequency.
[14:15] <daveake> All my existing rtty code is the same aside from replacing the NTX high/low stuff with the setFrequency() call
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[14:16] <daveake> Oh, and the prog is now 13354 bytes. Still plenty left
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[14:16] <daveake> GPS lock so ithe strings now look more meaningful
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[14:17] <daveake> I ought to add a DS18B20 ... that temp sensor in the transmitter isn't going to be any use if it warms up
[14:17] <eroomde> wq
[14:18] <navrac> if you just change the fine tune frequency lsb (73) rather than calling setfrequency it seemed to drift less, but could just be my imagination
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[14:18] <daveake> I'll try that
[14:18] <daveake> eroomde wq? Using vi??
[14:18] <navrac> I might be wrong but it did appear to help
[14:21] <daveake> It took it a while but it's nice and stable now
[14:21] Action: daveake considers a feedback loop that ups the Tx power to warm the chip up when it starts to cool down :)
[14:22] <Darkside> oh wow, nearing 1am, should sleep...
[14:23] <Darkside> hmm so the thing does drift?
[14:23] <Darkside> thats a pain
[14:23] <daveake> yes. yes
[14:23] <Darkside> i was planning on having it send a packet every 30 seconds or so, just so we know how far it's drifted
[14:23] <Darkside> then we tune a transmitter to teh same frequency, and transmit up a packet
[14:24] <daveake> Cool. There's some stuff in the manual about the AFC. I didn't read that much but it does have it
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[14:30] <Laurenceb_> lol @ register ipad accessory
[14:31] <Laurenceb_> "If the design does make it to production then you’ll have the perfect gift for the geek who has everything – except a girlfrien"
[14:34] <Laurenceb_> ...clearly what one should see on the screen is a Sad Mac, followed by the error code for "Illegal Input", then "Buffer Overflow"
[14:35] <gonzo__> +++redo from start
[14:35] <gonzo__> +++out of cheese error+++
[14:38] <daveake> No cheese, Gromit. Not a bit in the house.
[14:39] <daveake> Can someone clear the old Buzz data for me from spacenear plz?
[14:39] <Darkside> daveake: BBBBZZZZZZZZT
[14:40] <daveake> I mean CLOUD :)
[14:40] <Darkside> wrong popular culture reference
[14:40] <Darkside> +++out of chese error+++ is not anything to do with wallace and grommit
[14:40] <daveake> BUZZ now showing. Ignore the batt volts - that bit isn't connected
[14:40] <Darkside> i'll give you a clue: anthill inside
[14:40] <navrac> afc is limited to 156hz steps
[14:40] <daveake> Wrong reference but it still makes me hungry
[14:41] <daveake> ok
[14:41] <navrac> a pratchett reference
[14:41] <daveake> ah
[14:41] <fsphil> aah, I remember that now
[14:41] <Darkside> HEX.
[14:41] <Darkside> discworlds first computer
[14:43] <UpuWork> whats the cheaper versions of the Wouxun radios ?
[14:45] <gonzo__> have heard mention of them, dual band rigs for 40squids
[14:45] <gonzo__> the dual band wouxun ones are reasonable qual. I have one
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[14:46] <UpuWork> Beofang or soemthing
[14:46] <UpuWork> Baofeng
[14:48] <daveake> yep
[14:48] <daveake> and Vero
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[14:49] <UpuWork> damn shame they can't be used without a license
[14:50] <gonzo__> can use them on rx, or put on 446mhz (who will know)
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[14:51] <UpuWork> thats out of the amateur band plan
[14:51] <UpuWork> whats it allocated too ?
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[14:53] <SmSilver_> bugger if it was scotland yard
[14:55] <daveake> "Er, Sarge, WTF does "Cutdown Now" mean?"
[14:58] <SmSilver_> Put the kettel on lets have a cuppa
[15:00] <SmSilver_> bbl
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[15:00] <gonzo__> 446mhz is the licence exempt hhelds you buy from maplin etc
[15:00] <gonzo__> 500mW eirp
[15:01] <gonzo__> officially they have to be type approved kit
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[15:01] <gonzo__> interestingly, 446mhz is still a grey area for airborne use
[15:02] <gonzo__> though you can only use nbfm
[15:02] <fsphil> the baofeng's can transmit on 446 fine
[15:02] <navrac> but you could put a receiver on 446 which isnt type approved for an uplink receiver - if you are only txing from the ground...
[15:02] <fsphil> ooh
[15:02] <gonzo__> true
[15:02] <gonzo__> and on thr ground, there is no power resrtiction
[15:03] <fsphil> 500mw
[15:03] <gonzo__> yep, but you can only do audio fm, so it would ne AFSK on an FM carrier
[15:03] <gonzo__> that looses some of the benifit
[15:04] <fsphil> a fair bit
[15:04] <gonzo__> <gonzo__> and on thr ground, there is no power resrtiction, I meant on the AR bands
[15:04] <fsphil> ah gotcha
[15:04] <gonzo__> yep
[15:05] <gonzo__> prob not worth the dc power
[15:05] <fsphil> there is no useful way to get 1200 baud from a payload yet
[15:06] <fsphil> reliable, not useful
[15:06] <NigeyS> yogurt pots and string :p
[15:06] <fsphil> I've only got 50 baud out of that setup NigeyS :)
[15:06] <NigeyS> lol dam
[15:06] <gonzo__> hehe's an idea foer control... fly a rx on 144.800, with a 1200bd afsk demod, watching for a command
[15:06] <fsphil> need a better mic -- actually one for an electric stringed instrument would do
[15:07] <gonzo__> then send the command over the APRS network
[15:07] <gonzo__> it;s sure to hear one
[15:07] <gonzo__> and saves having to rely on direct comms from the ground
[15:07] <gonzo__> (though pumping a few 100's watts is not a perob from the ground)
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[15:34] <fsphil> would help for cases where the payload was over europe, and out of range of the launch site
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[16:50] <WillDuckworth> anyone interested in, or tried, the uBlox AMY-6 GPS units?
[16:51] <Laurenceb_> what the AMY version?
[16:52] <WillDuckworth> yeah - they're tiny...
[16:52] <UpuWork> those in the units jcoxon is trying ?
[16:54] <UpuWork> GPS RADIONOVA M10382 RF Antenna Module (SMD)
[16:54] <WillDuckworth> not sure, the NEO is fine, there's also the MAX which is smaller, but the AMY is the smallest - just curious that's all
[16:55] <WillDuckworth> mmm - interesting :)
[16:55] <UpuWork> Not sure its something you could solder by hand
[16:55] <UpuWork> Antenova module has antenna built in
[16:56] <navrac> err - ive soldered it by hand a few times - sadly ive broken 3 out of 4 of them
[16:56] <UpuWork> going to be tough to solder though
[16:56] <UpuWork> as above
[16:56] <navrac> its not too bad - BUT DONT USE HOT AIR
[16:56] <UpuWork> no wouldn't anyway
[16:56] <navrac> the aerial curls up in seconds
[16:57] <UpuWork> my plan was to raise it off the board ever so slightly with a small piece of tape
[16:57] <UpuWork> and then there is a gap the solder can go into
[16:57] <navrac> first one I fried when using a hot air gun
[16:58] <Laurenceb_> lol
[16:58] <Laurenceb_> you should always rtfm
[16:58] <navrac> the second I soldered onto the pcb, but realised there was an error on the pcb and tried to remove it with an iron and one pad wasnt hot enough and the pad fell off
[16:58] <Laurenceb_> and test before using hot air
[16:58] <Laurenceb_> how can i use grep to search for ": "
[16:58] <navrac> the third i wired directly to the pins with hookup wire and whilst moving it around to test ground planes broke a pad off again
[16:59] <daveake> \:
[16:59] <daveake> Doesn't that work?
[17:00] <Laurenceb_> well actually im searching for "warning: unused"
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[17:00] <Laurenceb_> it just finds warning*
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[17:00] <daveake> "warning\: unused"
[17:00] <Laurenceb_> fails too
[17:00] <Laurenceb_> just finds everything
[17:00] <daveake> hrum
[17:02] <daveake> You put quotes round it?
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[17:03] <Laurenceb_> yes
[17:03] <Laurenceb_> doesnt work with ' ' either
[17:04] <daveake> Bizarre
[17:04] <SpeedEvil> : is magic in grep
[17:04] <SpeedEvil> It starts a group or something
[17:04] <SpeedEvil> I forget the right term
[17:04] <SpeedEvil> "\: "
[17:05] <Laurenceb_> hmm i think im using grep incorrectly
[17:05] <SpeedEvil> Actually - : alone shouldn't
[17:05] <SpeedEvil> WFM
[17:05] <Laurenceb_> make | grep "warning\: unused" ?
[17:05] <SpeedEvil> grep ": "
[17:05] <SpeedEvil> Then type ": \n" and it matches
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[17:06] <SpeedEvil> Make is probably outputting that on stderr
[17:06] <Laurenceb_> oh
[17:06] <Laurenceb_> yeah i think its filtering stdout
[17:07] <Laurenceb_> and passing through everything from stderrr
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[17:08] <Laurenceb_> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/549737/how-can-i-redirect-stderr-to-stdout-but-ignore-the-original-stdout
[17:08] <Laurenceb_> make 2>&1 >/dev/null | grep "warning\: unused"
[17:08] <Laurenceb_> ^that works correctly
[17:09] <SpeedEvil> :)
[17:11] <daveake> Just got call #1 re my notam for Sunday. I only ever get them when I'm not launching, and never when I am!
[17:12] <SpeedEvil> :)
[17:12] <SpeedEvil> :(
[17:13] <NigeyS> daveake, still not got mine :|
[17:15] <daveake> :(
[17:15] <daveake> Bliney, call #2 ... someone wants to blog about weather balloons
[17:15] <daveake> m
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[17:23] <NigeyS> whos launching from Lancaster then ?
[17:25] <daveake> Not me, unfortunately :/
[17:25] <NigeyS> hrm
[17:25] <NigeyS> ures is ledbury ?
[17:25] <daveake> Brightwalton (between Wantage in Oxon and Bewbury in Berks)
[17:25] <daveake> Newbury
[17:26] fsphil-laptop (~phil@2001:8b0:34:1:219:d2ff:fe09:a6b9) joined #highaltitude.
[17:26] <jcoxon> NigeyS, what launch from lancaster?
[17:26] <NigeyS> H0162/12 - (54.067,-2.783)
[17:26] <NigeyS> Start : 2012-01-27 07:37:00
[17:26] <NigeyS> End : 2012-02-13 13:30:00
[17:27] <NigeyS> 27-01 to 13-02
[17:27] <jcoxon> you watching notams?
[17:27] <NigeyS> yeah, waiting for mine, dont think im gonna get 1 for tomorrow now lol
[17:27] <daveake> He's not the only one ... I had 2 calls re mine within 5 minutes
[17:27] <griffonbot> Received email: Solar Balloonman "[UKHAS] Canadian lego 'spaceman'."
[17:27] <daveake> One was "just interested in weather balloons" !
[17:27] <NigeyS> http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=http:%2F%2Fmetutil.appspot.com%2FNotamData%3Ftype%3DTASK%26name%3DUK_2DAY_WR_KML&ie=UTF8&ll=53.357109,-2.944336&spn=10.356452,19.753418&t=p&z=6
[17:27] <NigeyS> handy map
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[17:30] <jcoxon> that is handy
[17:31] <daveake> ooer that's better than notaminfo.com
[17:31] <NigeyS> nice to see you have to get a notam for laser displays
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[17:39] <daveake> jcoxon Thanks for the code I now have my rfm22 running rtty nicely :-)
[17:41] <Laurenceb_> http://uk.farnell.com/stmicroelectronics/steval-mki062v2/board-eval-inemo-mems-stm32-based/dp/1865347?CMP=KNC-GUK-FUK-GEN-KWL
[17:44] <cuddykid> daveake: I see you've managed to get yourself a nice big area for clearance :D
[17:45] <daveake> ? Just that spot. The notam covers 10nm (that's nautical miles, not nanometers!) radius, but that doesn't mean I can launch anywhere other than the specified launch site
[17:48] <cuddykid> just from the map your circle area is bigger than others
[17:48] <SamSilver_> daveake: maybe cuddykid was talking about a north sea landing
[17:49] <daveake> English Channel this time :p
[17:49] <cuddykid> :P
[17:49] <jcoxon> daveake, hooray
[17:49] <jcoxon> glad it worked
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[17:50] <daveake> Easy peasy :)
[17:50] <daveake> Did you see my piggy-back arrangement?
[17:50] <daveake> cuddykid: Looks like the CUSF one is 5 miles radius. Mine have always been 10.
[17:50] <cuddykid> cool
[17:50] <daveake> Possibly to do with the airport near Cambridge
[17:51] <cuddykid> yeah
[17:51] <daveake> The lancs one is 10.
[17:51] <jcoxon> daveake, pics?
[17:51] <daveake> justamo
[17:52] <daveake> http://imgur.com/1MraU
[17:52] <daveake> Not quite fully wired at that point
[17:53] <daveake> I found some pins that line up (e.g. 2 of the SPI ones) so I could mount using a piece of pin header strip
[17:54] <daveake> The underneath one is the bmp085
[17:55] <jcoxon> i see
[17:55] <jcoxon> yeah once its wired up its very easy to use
[17:55] <jcoxon> daveake, the rtty needs range testing
[17:56] <daveake> OK, I can go do some comparisons with NTX2 using a nearby hill
[17:57] <daveake> Also I was thinking of attaching it to my next latex flight as a second payload
[17:57] <jcoxon> yeah
[17:57] <jcoxon> as its frequency variable
[17:57] <daveake> Does drift a bit as it warms up
[17:57] <jcoxon> it should settle
[17:57] <daveake> it does
[17:58] <jcoxon> and i suspect it'll be quite stable
[17:59] <cuddykid> that's odd - the display on my a570 just shuts off and whole camera becomes inactive apart from shutter button after I update firmware and switch to take photo mode
[17:59] <daveake> I'm using the temp sensor in the 085, but that only goes down to zero. I doubt the one in the rfm22 is much use if the chip warms up a fair bit.
[18:00] <jcoxon> daveake, oh i didn't realise the bmp085 only goes down to 0
[18:00] <daveake> So I'll probably add a DS18B20 (when I get some in - I've run out)
[18:00] <jcoxon> thats a bit odd
[18:00] <daveake> I'll double check
[18:01] <Laurenceb_> really
[18:01] Action: Laurenceb_ checks
[18:02] <jcoxon> daveake, i think navrac's way of doing hte rtty shift will be better then mine
[18:02] <daveake> I hope that was bollox ... struggling to find where I think I read it
[18:03] <daveake> jcoxon OK I'll try that
[18:04] <daveake> Think it goes down to -40. Sorry for the bollox.
[18:04] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[18:04] <daveake> I'll gp find the freezer spray ..,
[18:04] <Laurenceb_> my code looks like it supports -ive
[18:05] <daveake> I really can't find what I remembered, so let's assume I dreamt it
[18:05] <Laurenceb_> careful you dont break it with freezer spray
[18:05] <jcoxon> daveake, navrac, any thing you develop on the rfm22b please update the wiki page
[18:06] <jcoxon> would be good to have it well documented
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[18:10] <jcoxon> hey navrac
[18:11] <daveake> jcoxon will do
[18:11] <navrac_> hi jcoxon
[18:11] <jcoxon> cool
[18:11] <jcoxon> i reckon its worth going with the single register change
[18:12] <jcoxon> and get a 312hz shift
[18:12] <jcoxon> we could even add that to dl-fldigi as a standard shift
[18:12] <navrac_> works quite well for me
[18:12] <jcoxon> can't get much faster then that really
[18:12] <navrac_> 300 still works ok
[18:12] <navrac_> 300hz shift - it does 300 baud as well - but a bit noisy
[18:13] <daveake> I ran 300 baud earlier but not every sentence worked
[18:13] <navrac_> it was pretty reliable for me - but i did have to chase it as it drifted across the screen
[18:14] <griffonbot> Received email: Alistair Currah "Re: [UKHAS] Canadian lego 'spaceman'."
[18:17] <jcoxon> if we can prove this'll work well at altitude i suspect the rfm22b will surpass the ntx2
[18:17] <jcoxon> its cheaper
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[18:18] <jcoxon> and potentially more flexiable
[18:18] <cuddykid> jcoxon: is it 10mW?
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[18:20] <daveake> Well the BMP085 reads down to -38 at least
[18:20] <jcoxon> cuddykid, its power variable
[18:20] <jcoxon> up to 100mW in theory
[18:20] <jcoxon> but you of course can't use that over the UK
[18:20] <cuddykid> ahh cool
[18:21] Action: daveake Initially sprayed the rfm22 and wondered why the trace exited stage left (well, right) at a rate of knots
[18:24] <jcoxon> haha the SPoT doesn't even require a valid checksum on its nmea data
[18:26] <cuddykid> do we have any CHDK pros on here?
[18:27] <navrac_> whats a good image sharing site that isnt flickr?
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[18:28] <Laurenceb_> what the heck
[18:28] <daveake> Someone broke the internet
[18:28] <Laurenceb_> did the server just die or something
[18:28] <daveake> The Mayans predicted this
[18:29] <cuddykid> net split :P
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[18:32] <cuddykid> oh I do hate ubasic
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[18:33] <x-f> cuddykid, use lua
[18:35] <cuddykid> x-f: can I use C at all with CHDK?
[18:36] <daveake> You can if you make your own CHDK ......
[18:36] <x-f> no, but there are two languages, you can you use with CHDK - ubasic and lua
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[18:37] <cuddykid> ahh ok
[18:37] <cuddykid> daveake: don't even go there :P
[18:37] <daveake> It's Friday I'm allowed a little humour :)
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[18:38] <cuddykid> haha :D
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[18:38] <navrac> ah back on at last
[18:38] <navrac> http://s1078.photobucket.com/albums/w493/navrac_/
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[18:39] <cuddykid> oh hello - there's a nice ARM chip in the A570 by the looks of it
[18:39] <navrac> finally found the card reader to get some pics of my mkI payload pcb - and a layout for the MKII to be built this asfternoon
[18:40] <cuddykid> wooooo - I've solved my problem
[18:40] <navrac> I put the gps on a daughterboard so it can plug into the pcb or straight into the ftdi adapter
[18:40] <jcoxon> navrac, nice work
[18:40] <cuddykid> well& solved 1 of my many many problems :P
[18:40] <navrac> so when i play with groundplanes i dont trash any more
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[18:41] <Laurenceb_> whats that board for?
[18:41] <Laurenceb_> i see diff pressure
[18:41] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] Canadian lego 'spaceman'."
[18:42] <cuddykid> by the looks of it I was nesting my self deeper and deeper in "gosub"s - added some returns and a "goto" and all sorted - fingers crossed
[18:42] <navrac> yep its an rfm22, ard mini pro, temp sensor, diff pressure and gps on one board - although the pics are pre gps - it doesnt look quite as pretty now with dodgy wires to the gps chip
[18:42] <daveake> jcoxon How do you predict the flight path for a foil flight?
[18:42] <cuddykid> hence why I was filling the stack up - as for each subroutine it was dumping it's registers on the stack
[18:42] <navrac> good question
[18:42] <jcoxon> run the predictor
[18:42] <jcoxon> 4500m burst
[18:43] <jcoxon> 0.5m/s ascent rate
[18:43] <jcoxon> gives a rough idea
[18:43] <daveake> But if it floats ...
[18:43] <jcoxon> well then you run it again
[18:43] <jcoxon> but with descent at 0.0001m/s
[18:43] <daveake> Ah, cool
[18:43] <navrac> ok - thats pretty much what I did, good to know thanks
[18:43] <cuddykid> start alt: 4500 ascent: 0 ?
[18:45] <navrac> only thing is how do you work out the ascent rate from the neck lift, thats where i came unstuck
[18:45] <jcoxon> navrac, we fill in a barn
[18:45] <jcoxon> and measure ascent rate indoors
[18:45] <jcoxon> before letting go
[18:45] <Laurenceb_> where?
[18:45] <jcoxon> add a bit more/ remove a bit
[18:45] <navrac> ah ok
[18:45] <jcoxon> the volume need to change is tiny
[18:45] <Laurenceb_> theres no barn at churchill
[18:46] <SpeedEvil> you actually measyure rate, not N?
[18:46] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, its more we fine tune at the end
[18:46] <jcoxon> to get the rough rate we want
[18:46] <SpeedEvil> Hmm
[18:47] <SpeedEvil> I suppose Cd of lots of spheres together is moderately annoying to calculate
[18:49] <navrac> oops time to go down the pub
[18:49] <griffonbot> Received email: Chris Hembrow "Re: [UKHAS] Canadian lego 'spaceman'."
[19:07] <griffonbot> Received email: Ali Currah "Re: [UKHAS] Canadian lego 'spaceman'."
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[20:32] <jcoxon> dumb dee dumb dum
[20:32] Action: jcoxon is SPoT hacking
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[20:34] <daveake> What will you be doing with it?
[20:35] <jcoxon> ummmmm
[20:35] <jcoxon> a long flight...
[20:35] <daveake> I guessed that bit :)
[20:35] <daveake> I mean, why do you need to hack it?
[20:35] <jcoxon> cause it doesn't work above 18km
[20:35] <daveake> Ah
[20:35] <jcoxon> and it doesn't send altitude only lat/lon
[20:36] <Upu> unless you hack it :)
[20:36] <daveake> So you're basically using the satellite comms side to send your own data?
[20:36] <jcoxon> daveake, yup
[20:37] <daveake> You can receive message too, right?
[20:37] <jcoxon> not this version
[20:37] <jcoxon> i've only got an original spot
[20:37] <daveake> ok
[20:37] <jcoxon> actually i think all SPoT's are one way only
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[20:40] <jcoxon> it also means i can run it for more then 24hrs
[20:40] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[20:41] <Upu> evening Lunar
[20:41] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
[20:42] <Upu> not bad hows you
[20:42] <Upu> ?
[20:43] <Lunar_Lander> I'm good, thanks
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[20:45] <Lunar_Lander> the story of the Lego astronaut also made our news
[20:46] <Randomskk> hah
[20:46] <Randomskk> it's doing the rounds
[20:46] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:46] <Lunar_Lander> IIRC, Robert's Icarus wasn't mentioned here in germany
[20:46] <Upu> Beat them all too it : http://ava.upuaut.net/files/avanaught.jpg
[20:46] <Upu> I'll remember to dangle him in front of the camera next time
[20:46] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:47] <Upu> though in fairness I forgot to put "him" in the container
[20:47] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:48] <Upu> Good old BBC can't just say Lego
[20:48] <Upu> "childs toy"
[20:49] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:49] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[20:49] <Lunar_Lander> there is a guy, I think on discovery who buys old cars and another guy repairs them, and then the first guy sells them again
[20:49] <Lunar_Lander> and this is in England
[20:49] <Lunar_Lander> but I don't know the english name of the show
[20:49] <Upu> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheeler_Dealers ?
[20:49] <daveake> I need to send up my NASA Space Ted sometime this year
[20:50] <Lunar_Lander> exactly Upu
[20:50] <Lunar_Lander> and they seem to have a season in which they go to the USA to find cars and today they had a DMC-12 DeLorean!
[20:52] <Lunar_Lander> that was quite awesome
[20:52] <Upu> made quite a profit
[20:53] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:53] <Upu> never seen it
[20:53] <Upu> :)
[20:53] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[20:53] <Lunar_Lander> the best thing was when he removed the seats to repair them
[20:54] <Lunar_Lander> "When I remove the seats, there is a surprise for me - a dead lizard. Those stinky carpets go to the trash"
[20:54] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[21:07] <griffonbot> Received email: Richard Frewin "Re: [UKHAS] Total beginner playing with microprocessors"
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[21:20] <Laurenceb_> Randomskk: why not add a "balloon interface" for the HAB txt thingy
[21:20] <Laurenceb_> so a hab can SMS it and it goes to the tracker
[21:22] <daveake> <cough> :)
[21:22] <Randomskk> yea daveake totally emailed about that this morning or something
[21:22] <Randomskk> considering it
[21:22] <Randomskk> daveake: what format do you text in? the same string that goes over the radio?
[21:22] <daveake> :-) Replied to the list aksherley
[21:23] <daveake> Exactly the same, as it was less code and memory to just do that :)
[21:23] <daveake> But changing it would be easy enough
[21:24] <Randomskk> and it fits into a text?
[21:24] <Randomskk> I'm not entirely sure how it copes with multi-text long messages though it can probably manage I guess
[21:24] <daveake> Yep
[21:24] <Laurenceb_> can you do multi-text with pdu mode?
[21:25] <daveake> I don't know
[21:25] <cuddykid> if not - just lat/long/alt would probably suffice - could have a collapsable "text box" somewhere on the tracker
[21:26] <daveake> You'd need the sequence number too
[21:26] <daveake> Time too probably
[21:26] <cuddykid> daveake: could roll with when the text was received - not plotting on map, just displaying the texts in a little box
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[21:27] <daveake> yeah but I think it's nice when analysing after to have the data in the right place
[21:27] <cuddykid> agree
[21:29] <cuddykid> change of plan with this chdk stuff
[21:29] <Randomskk> also with habitat it should be straightforward to get it into the usual form
[21:29] <cuddykid> instead of using uplink to switch video mode on/off& I'm going to use the uplink to turn the camera on (after launch setup)
[21:29] <daveake> That's what I was thinking
[21:30] <daveake> I've got some logic in there to send texts when they'd be useful, which means below 2km and when it thinks the payload is rising or falling.
[21:31] <daveake> At the mo it checks for >=50m difference between last transmitted altitude and current
[21:31] <cuddykid> daveake: you could opt for unlimited texts and continually send every 1min?
[21:32] <cuddykid> turn the phone onto silent though :P
[21:32] <daveake> I got 5000 on the SIM card, so that's close enough to unlimited :-). But I don't want my phone bleeping every minute till the thing's flying
[21:32] <daveake> Plus any NOTAM calls need to come through
[21:32] <cuddykid> yeah
[21:32] <cuddykid> bombarded by texts
[21:32] <cuddykid> :P
[21:32] <daveake> Anyway the logic works - everyy 30 mins if not ascending/descending, and every 30 secs if it is
[21:32] <Randomskk> costs money for my system to receive a text, too
[21:33] <daveake> Yep
[21:33] <daveake> What system do you use?
[21:33] <Randomskk> twilio.com
[21:33] <cuddykid> ohh, never realised that Randomskk
[21:33] <Randomskk> it's 1 cent per incoming and 4 cents per outgoing
[21:33] <Randomskk> they're really good.
[21:33] <Randomskk> their api is absolutely fantastic
[21:33] <daveake> I think there ought to be a ukhas sub for paying for things like that, web hosting, etc
[21:34] <Randomskk> but then we'd have to Formalise n stuff
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[21:34] <daveake> 1 cent is pretty good
[21:34] <daveake> Yeah
[21:34] <Randomskk> also web hosting is free thanks to upu's kind donation and sms stuff is still running off the $30 free credit and probably will for a while
[21:34] <daveake> :)
[21:34] <Randomskk> if it started costing tons of money I'm sure I'd accept donations but as it stands it hasn't cost me anything
[21:34] <daveake> I don't feel so guilty now then :)
[21:34] <daveake> Yeah, donations via paypal would work
[21:34] <Randomskk> it's made to be used, after all
[21:34] <cuddykid> I doubt I'd be using the text service as I have a backup tracker anyway, plus unlimited data :)
[21:35] <Randomskk> cuddykid: yea, it just might be kinda neat. definitely the use case I envisioned for the current system is when you're in the middle of nowhere with no data signal
[21:35] <cuddykid> only situation I can think of - my radio is broken, backup tracker has failed and I don't have internet signal :P
[21:35] <Randomskk> or reeeeally slow data signal
[21:35] <daveake> My Sunday flight is postponed now, so you have at least 1 week Randomskk to get this going ;) (j/k|)
[21:35] <cuddykid> yep
[21:35] <Randomskk> :P
[21:36] <Randomskk> my week is shaping up to be a bit odd, but it could happen
[21:36] <Randomskk> need to work out how to multiplex it
[21:36] <Randomskk> numbers are $1 a month and nothing else has HAB
[21:36] <Randomskk> so ideally it'd all be that number
[21:36] <Randomskk> but then I might need a verb or some heuristics to identify what you're trying to do
[21:36] <daveake> Yeah
[21:36] <daveake> if starts with $$ ....
[21:37] <Randomskk> that kinda thing
[21:38] <cuddykid> another option -> get a Skype phone number for a UKHAS account and then set up a little call centre when every launch is taking place - with a few logged on, the phone will be answered in no time if there's a problem :P
[21:40] <cuddykid> "Hello this is the UKHAS call centre, how can I help you today"
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[21:40] <cuddykid> other user "my payload is stuck in a damn tree!" - "just calling a chopper for you"
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[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> XD
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[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> or so
[22:04] <fsphil-laptop> OT: I love demos, esp. impressed with the 64k ones: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAnhcUNHRW0
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[22:06] <Lunar_Lander1> any ideas?
[22:06] <danielsaul> Any microSD card socket experts lurking in here by any chance?
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[22:07] <SpeedEvil> ?
[22:08] <Lunar_Lander1> can mistyping any of these commands have severe consequences? http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:dl-fldigi:build-ubuntu
[22:08] <fsphil-laptop> severe?
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander1> like downloding something else that is not good
[22:09] <fsphil-laptop> not unless you where very unlucky with what you typed in
[22:09] <fsphil-laptop> why?
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander1> just asking
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander1> cause I just did that and it seemed to work, but that question came up
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander1> don't know why
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander1> :)
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander1> maybe because at first I didn't make a space between openssl and the libjpeg thing
[22:10] <fsphil-laptop> not to say someone hasn't been tweaking with the wiki :)
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander1> yea
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander1> :)
[22:11] <daveake> years ago a colleague managed some "severe" consequences ... he was dialled in to a customer UNIX machine, logged in as root, and typed two commands. First was "cd /somewhere/or/other" and the second was "rf -rf *". Unfortunately he mistyped the first and landed in the root folder ....
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander1> well, it says Nov. 13, 2011 by DanielRichman
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander1> oh
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander1> and what does rf do?
[22:11] <daveake> oh, "rm -rf *"
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander1> ah
[22:11] <daveake> I mistyped too :)
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander1> rm is a delete/kill command or so?
[22:12] <daveake> In that form, it's "delete all files and folders, and files and folders in those folders, and...."
[22:12] <daveake> I've never seen anyone hit the break key so hard and so often :)
[22:13] <fsphil-laptop> I can imagine!
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[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> sorry, my router is at fault again
[22:18] <cuddykid> how long is the average ascent? 1 3/4 hrs?
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[22:23] <Lunar_Lander> cuddykid: sounds like a reasonable number
[22:23] <cuddykid> :D
[22:23] <cuddykid> almost created my custom CHDK script - this time with no pesky bugs hopefully :)
[22:23] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:23] <cuddykid> and there will be NO last min changes this time :P
[22:23] <Lunar_Lander> the million millisecond error
[22:23] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:24] <cuddykid> but, I am trying something fancy which could back fire
[22:24] <cuddykid> using a modified version of CHDK to switch between stills and video
[22:24] <cuddykid> and, integrating my uplink to allow me to send a command to the camera to start it taking photos after launch setup complete
[22:24] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:25] <cuddykid> hence gets around the really really long sleep
[22:25] <cuddykid> it just keeps waiting for a power pulse, then when it gets one - it starts taking snaps
[22:25] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> btw I just thought if there might be a book on UKHAS one day
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> it has to mention the million millisecond error
[22:26] <cuddykid> lol yeah
[22:26] <daveake> Why not start before launch? With AAs and a 16GB card my A490 goes for many more hours than the flight
[22:26] <cuddykid> that was so annoying, it was a perfect start then bam
[22:26] <cuddykid> daveake: 4GB card here
[22:27] <daveake> Buy a bigger one :)
[22:27] <cuddykid> lol
[22:27] <daveake> Simple wins
[22:27] <Lunar_Lander> do you know that Paul Verhage PDF book at Parallax?
[22:27] <Lunar_Lander> he recommends a 64 MB card xD
[22:28] <daveake> No need for stills
[22:28] <cuddykid> another thing - It alters it's photo timings and video timings depending on how long it's being going - with uplink I can make sure it starts at the right time :D
[22:28] <daveake> oh MB
[22:28] <daveake> lol
[22:29] <daveake> I just set my Canon to 1 every 4-5 secs, highest resolution. Video via camcorder with 32GB card and extra AAs. Then both last much longer than the flight
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> yay
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> which canon do you have?
[22:31] <cuddykid> A570is
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> and daveake?
[22:31] <daveake> A490 and A495
[22:32] <daveake> Got the latter on ebay for ¬25 and got a free photo printer too :D
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> yeah you said that xD
[22:32] <daveake> I may say it again :p
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> so these are all CHDK compatible?
[22:33] <cuddykid> most
[22:33] <daveake> yes
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> that is good
[22:33] <daveake> There's a list of compatibles on the CHDK site
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> because when I once saw a list on the CHDK site I found most models were obsolete or so
[22:33] <daveake> These are obsolete
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[22:34] <Lunar_Lander> but people on ebay still have them
[22:34] <daveake> Of course
[22:34] <Lunar_Lander> because IIRC I only found broken cameras or only parts of them
[22:34] <cuddykid> A570 is a great cam
[22:34] <Lunar_Lander> but maybe because I looked for "Canon Powershot XY"(XY=model number)
[22:35] <daveake> There are more added all the time. Just keep looking, or set up an automatic search so you get emailed with new additions
[22:35] <daveake> After that you just need patience
[22:35] <daveake> You can look for several, e.g. "Canon (A480,A490,A495)"
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:36] <SpeedEvil> Ebays search language isn't bad
[22:36] <daveake> Nope
[22:36] <Lunar_Lander> I still have the alert for the FT790R
[22:36] <daveake> :)
[22:36] <Lunar_Lander> have to remove that one day
[22:36] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[22:39] Action: SpeedEvil mehs.
[22:39] <SpeedEvil> Still hoping my less likely searches will fire.
[22:39] <SpeedEvil> cryocooler, and impactron, specifically.
[22:40] <SpeedEvil> impactron is like a solid state amplified CCD
[22:40] <Laurenceb_> APD CCD?
[22:40] <SpeedEvil> No.
[22:40] <SpeedEvil> It's a standard CCD.
[22:41] <SpeedEvil> With a wierd avalanching multiplication line on the non-visible output line of the CCD
[22:42] <cuddykid> first run of my CHDK script..
[22:42] <SpeedEvil> You have the camera on a fireproof surface?
[22:44] <cuddykid> lol
[22:44] Action: cuddykid places it on heat proof mat
[22:44] <cuddykid> so far so good - it has halted, waiting for the pulse
[22:44] <SpeedEvil> Why you shouldn't buy cheap USB chargers.
[22:44] <SpeedEvil> http://www.esc.org.uk/industry/product-safety/product-testing-screening/chargers/
[22:46] <cuddykid> yay :D
[22:46] <cuddykid> appears to have worked
[22:46] <Lunar_Lander> what's ESC?
[22:47] <SpeedEvil> 'electrical safety council
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> sh
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:53] <cuddykid> ouch - a 5sec movie is ~10mb
[22:54] <daveake> SpeedEvil I saw a YT video of an electronics guy taking a cheap USB PSU apart. It was complete shit. Labelled as 1A but it could only do 100mA before the output fell below 5V.
[22:55] <Lunar_Lander> XD
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[22:56] <daveake> I've had plenty of adapters fail over the years
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[22:56] <fsphil-laptop> I got a car <> usb adaptor from tesco last week, totally dead
[22:56] <CovBalloon> evening all
[22:57] <daveake> Apparently some have the following to drop the voltage ............... a resistor
[22:57] <Lunar_Lander> hello CovBalloon
[22:57] <CovBalloon> Have I missed some intersting conversations this evening?
[22:58] <SpeedEvil> daveake: mikeselectricstuff
[22:58] <daveake> That's the one
[22:58] <Lunar_Lander> CovBalloon: yes, I mentioned the DeLorean from Wheeler Dealers
[22:58] <CovBalloon> how much did they sell it for>
[23:01] <Upu> Evening CovBalloon
[23:02] <Lunar_Lander> 20,500 GBP
[23:02] <Lunar_Lander> and they bought it for 9,650 and had a total cost of 14,715 after refurbishment
[23:03] <fsphil-laptop> not worth it, unless it has a working Mr.Fusion
[23:03] <Upu> seconded
[23:04] <CovBalloon> Hi Upu BTW took your advice on the radio
[23:05] <Upu> oh what did you get ?
[23:05] <CovBalloon> 817ND
[23:05] <fsphil-laptop> love my 817
[23:05] <Lunar_Lander> CovBalloon: but the funniest line was "When I remove the seats there is a surprise for me - a dead lizard. Those smelly carpets go into the trash."
[23:05] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[23:06] <Upu> A wonderful choice
[23:07] <CovBalloon> It makes sense to have a good portable unit, lus it has a high resale value when your finsihed with it (if that ever happens)
[23:07] <Upu> yeah you won't stuggle to sell it
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[23:10] <CovBalloon> I'm serious about doing a number of launches, so it pays to get something that does the job you need it to. Cant wait to start testing, heres a question does the Radiometrix NTX2 Transmitter need an additional ariel
[23:10] <jcoxon> yes
[23:10] <Upu> just stick a piece of wire 164mm long out of it
[23:11] <jcoxon> it'll work on the bench without one
[23:11] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/files/2010-09-03%2019-26-16_0003.jpg
[23:11] <Upu> yeah I put a paperclip in mine
[23:11] <Upu> turn that antenna upside down
[23:11] <Upu> and you have 4 radials
[23:12] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/files/antenna.jpg like this but bend the radials back
[23:12] <Upu> try not to make it too spikey , i.e like mine
[23:15] <Lunar_Lander> hello jcoxon
[23:15] <Lunar_Lander> and what do you all think of Brian Cox?
[23:15] <fsphil-laptop> We try not to, as he can read minds
[23:15] <fsphil-laptop> best not to get his attention
[23:15] <CovBalloon> how is this suspended from the balloon so no damage is done on landing? Some of the pictures I have seen had the wires on a polystyrene sheet so they were protected.
[23:16] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[23:16] <cuddykid> CovBalloon: I use very bendy wire (very thin with plastic coating) then keep them straight using drinking straws - works great and will crumple on landing
[23:16] <Upu> I like Brian Cox
[23:16] <Lunar_Lander> yay
[23:17] <Upu> Clouds...where do they come from
[23:17] <CovBalloon> cheers, I like that Idea
[23:17] <fsphil-laptop> and stay connected, and not transfer any of the landing force to the PCB :)
[23:17] <Lunar_Lander> Upu yeah
[23:17] <Lunar_Lander> did anyone by chance record "Stargazing Live" on the BBC?
[23:18] <Upu> yeah
[23:18] <Upu> you want them ?
[23:18] <Lunar_Lander> yeah if that is possible :)
[23:18] <CovBalloon> are they not avaliable on iplayer?
[23:18] <Lunar_Lander> and that lecture "A Night with the stars"
[23:18] <Upu> Lunar is from Desutchland
[23:18] <fsphil-laptop> that lecture was great
[23:18] <Upu> spelling
[23:18] <Lunar_Lander> good question, don't know, I never used itunes
[23:18] <Lunar_Lander> deutschland
[23:18] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[23:18] <Upu> won't be able to get iPlayer
[23:18] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil-laptop: yeah
[23:18] <CovBalloon> newsgroups then
[23:18] <Upu> I'll sort them out be tomorrow though
[23:19] <fsphil-laptop> it taught me why atoms are so empty
[23:19] <Lunar_Lander> thanks Upu
[23:19] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil-laptop: yeah but one thing was confusing
[23:20] <CovBalloon> Upu are you the chap in Nottingham? If you are have you been chatting to the Scout leader who wants to launch a balloon?
[23:20] <Lunar_Lander> when he said that by heating the diamond he shifts the electrons in the energy levels, all other electrons have to follow suit due to the PEP
[23:20] <Upu> thats not me I'm from Halifax up North
[23:20] <fsphil-laptop> yea that was a bit weird
[23:20] <Lunar_Lander> that is not really true, because far distant atoms are not affected
[23:21] <cuddykid> CovBalloon: I'm at Nottingham uni :) but no, haven't been chatting to a scout leader
[23:21] <fsphil-laptop> he never really explained that bit well
[23:21] <Lunar_Lander> somone criticized that he there gave fuel to the esoteric idiots with the quantum stuff
[23:21] <Lunar_Lander> with the "everything's connected"
[23:21] <Laurenceb_> im in Nottingham also
[23:21] <Upu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDkVS-AN4NU for Lunar_Lander
[23:22] <cuddykid> tomorrow - I plan to test out my nearly complete full code. I've made a big big rookie error - not running versions as I've added bit's and pieces. I'm expecting the whole thing to fall apart spectacularly :P
[23:22] <Upu> thats normal cuddykid
[23:22] <cuddykid> lol
[23:23] Action: cuddykid prepares for a long week of debugging
[23:23] <fsphil-laptop> the best kind!
[23:23] <cuddykid> only to find that it's a missed ";" somewhere lol
[23:23] <Upu> tha video is very lol
[23:23] <daveake> I'm going to do a basic range test on the rfm22 - take it to a hill with an NTX2, then compare signal levels as far away as I can get and till pick up the signal
[23:24] <Lunar_Lander> WTF "I requested my school photograph taken by the HST"?
[23:24] <Upu> you could launch it along side a NTX2 daveake
[23:24] <Upu> wait till he tells you what the hotel is made of Lunar_Lander
[23:24] <Lunar_Lander> ROFL "Stay in a nice hotel and have a shit out"
[23:24] <daveake> Can't launch anything at the mo, aside from a foil flight perhaps
[23:24] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[23:24] <daveake> Not if I want to get it back anyway
[23:25] <cuddykid> lol Upu
[23:25] <daveake> But yes Upu I will launch it with cloud3 when that happens
[23:25] <Upu> uyup
[23:26] <daveake> The rfm22 seems to reset quite easily I need to check if there's a dry joint or I've left a reset line floating :)
[23:26] <Lunar_Lander> "We're made of the stuff like Carbon and Gold"
[23:26] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[23:26] <Lunar_Lander> "and this place is clearly made of Shit"
[23:26] <Lunar_Lander> ROFL
[23:27] <Upu> there is another spoof somewhere where he goes on about clouds being brilliant
[23:27] <cuddykid> that was brilliant - thanks :D
[23:27] <fsphil-laptop> the made of the same stuff bit was great
[23:28] <Lunar_Lander> ROFL "that is a black dwarf"
[23:29] <Lunar_Lander> "and everything will be fucking dead"
[23:29] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[23:29] <fsphil-laptop> aah what would we do without the internet
[23:30] <Lunar_Lander> LOL "I come to this beach because there is nothing to do back at the hotel"
[23:33] <Lunar_Lander> they never showed Wonders of the Solar System here
[23:33] <Lunar_Lander> they only showed a version which seems like they cut out brian and replaced him with interviews of other people
[23:36] <Upu> ok I'm off night all
[23:36] <Lunar_Lander> gn8 Upu
[23:37] <daveake> nn
[23:46] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:46] <Lunar_Lander> xD I'm still laughing about the video
[23:46] <cuddykid> night all
[23:46] <Lunar_Lander> daveake: what do you think of Billy Joel?
[23:46] <Lunar_Lander> gn8 cuddykid
[23:47] <natrium42> jcoxon: est tu la?
[23:49] <jcoxon> hey natrium42
[23:49] <natrium42> hey, all well?
[23:49] <jcoxon> yeah
[23:49] <jcoxon> funnily i'm testing my SPoT
[23:50] <natrium42> with the gps hack?
[23:50] <jcoxon> yeah
[23:50] <jcoxon> i've rebuilt my hack so now it has GPS onboard
[23:50] <jcoxon> rather than relying on getting the data from the main flight computer
[23:50] <natrium42> ah, awesome
[23:51] <jcoxon> well thats the plan
[23:51] <jcoxon> the hardware is setup
[23:51] <jcoxon> now just waiting for a gps lock
[23:51] Action: natrium42 is setting up amazon server cluster
[23:51] <natrium42> though not hab related
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[23:52] <natrium42> but i could use the experience if spacenear.us gets too big :D
[23:52] <jcoxon> :-)
[23:52] cuddykid (~acudworth@ left irc: Quit: cuddykid
[23:52] <natrium42> jcoxon: one of my irc friends had his vocal chords removed :'(
[23:52] <natrium42> had a case of step throat
[23:53] <natrium42> that wasn't treated
[23:53] <natrium42> is there anything they do to fix it?
[23:53] <jcoxon> eek
[23:53] <jcoxon> i've not heard of that happening before
[23:54] <jcoxon> but thats not my specialty
[23:54] <natrium42> he better not be kidding
[23:54] <natrium42> :S
[23:54] <griffonbot> Received email: Rick Hewett "[UKHAS] Re: Canadian lego 'spaceman'."
[23:54] <jcoxon> wasn't a vocal cord nodule
[23:54] <jcoxon> they sometimes get removed
[23:55] <natrium42> does it make it better?
[23:55] <Lunar_Lander> "Brian Cox and Robin Ince celebrate the science of Christmas with Professor Richard Dawkins, actor and writer Mark Gatiss and science journalist Roger Highfield."
[23:55] <Lunar_Lander> YAY!
[23:55] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.demon.co.uk) left irc: Quit: Bye
[23:55] <jcoxon> if its nodules then yeah - sometimes requires some language therapy
[23:57] <natrium42> hmm, i will ask
[23:57] <fsphil-laptop> Lunar_Lander, cox and ince do a radio show on bbc radio 4 - the infinite monkey cage
[23:57] <Lunar_Lander> yeah I know
[23:58] <Lunar_Lander> that is from the website of it :)
[23:58] <natrium42> haha, some guy is asking how to modify about modifying spots for >24h tracking for his company
[23:58] <fsphil-laptop> ah ha
[23:58] <natrium42> spot2
[23:58] <natrium42> jcoxon: want to build a proto for him for a free spot2 + contract?
[23:59] <jcoxon> surely it can just press the button
[23:59] <natrium42> i think the best way for that case would be to just attach to the power button
[23:59] <natrium42> exactly
[23:59] <jcoxon> how about a photodiode - when it stops flashing it presses the button
[23:59] <fsphil-laptop> Lunar_Lander, another good science radio show: http://www.cbc.ca/quirks/
[00:00] --- Sat Jan 28 2012