highaltitude.log.20120126

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[08:39] <number10> daveake: its still looking wet Huston!
[08:40] <daveake> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=a79dca92247c48a2a2c93ebc308f2e249cc23818
[08:40] <daveake> Yep :(
[08:41] <fsphil> unlikely to change a huge amount now
[08:41] <fsphil> although I've seen it happen
[08:41] <daveake> Yeah.
[08:41] <daveake> Notam in and helium ordered anyway
[08:42] <number10> how long a time slot do you get for the NOTAM
[08:42] <daveake> I askded for 8:45am - 2pm
[08:43] <daveake> No I didn't ... that's what I got though :)
[08:43] <daveake> DM adds a bit
[08:43] <fsphil> does he give you a time?
[08:43] <fsphil> I always seem to get 'during daylight hours'
[08:43] <daveake> Ah, no, I ask for a specific period
[08:44] <daveake> Land on the beach :p http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=251fec58923c71fffa6841d61ba3e27de5ea2a01
[08:45] <number10> but do you get several weekends to attemp?
[08:46] <daveake> Yes indeed. I asked for next weekend anyway, and if that doesn't work out then DM will add following weekends for me
[08:46] <number10> thats not too bad then
[08:46] <daveake> nope
[08:47] <daveake> Now if I could launch from Stafford or Stoke on Trent, it'd be a homing balloon :p
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[08:56] <daveake> Now if I had hydrogen I'd just make and fly another Buzz :)
[08:57] <daveake> This time he'd invade France instead of Belgium
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[09:02] <fsphil> L'hydrogne, a brle!
[09:02] <fsphil> (only with the missing accented characters)
[09:06] <daveake> :)
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[09:15] <UpuWork> morning
[09:17] <daveake> morning
[09:19] <fsphil> I disagree
[09:19] <fsphil> feels like I never left work
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[12:04] <cuddykid> back in notts
[12:04] <daveake> circuit in knots?
[12:04] <cuddykid> lol - it certainly feels that way with the bloody cutdown!
[12:05] <cuddykid> daveake: I now have access to all my HAB equipment so will launch a big debugging mission later after my last exam :P
[12:07] <daveake> cool
[12:14] <cuddykid> daveake: how's the launch looking for sunday? all set?
[12:15] <daveake> I'm readier than ever, but the prediction is still looking wet
[12:15] <daveake> payload finished ages ago; helium collection today; notam in yesterday
[12:15] <cuddykid> brill - hopefully prediction will get better
[12:16] <cuddykid> always a great moment the helium collection :D
[12:18] <daveake> For fun I ran predictions from Churchill for Sunday (lands on the beach near Hastings!) and Saturday - check this one :-) - http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=7d790f9fbd73f423c26792cf49be35014532c1e5
[12:19] <cuddykid> oh nice! Looks like you could get some good shots of london too (if clear skies) as it swings around!
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[12:28] <daveake> Oh dear ... http://thumbsnap.com/s/PdUihxZR.jpg
[12:34] <LazyLeopard> So not looking good from your intended launch site, then?
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[12:34] <daveake> No, still wet. Very wet.
[12:34] <LazyLeopard> :(
[12:35] <daveake> If it was a light.cheap payload I wouldn't mind (Buzz2 cost me much more to recover than it would have cost to rebuild!), but this is a photographic one which I want back with the photos!
[12:37] <cuddykid> looking forward to the photos
[12:37] <cuddykid> what camera(s) are you flying?
[12:37] <daveake> Canon A490 stills and Kodak Zx1 camcorder
[12:37] <cuddykid> someones decided to gravel over with big stones the habe launch site& grrr
[12:37] <cuddykid> nice
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[12:57] <daveake> Postie has delivered some more HAB goodies from 7dayshop ... 32GB SD card for the camcorder (for those longer flights - 16GB is enough for 3 hours), plus some AA lithiums.
[12:57] <daveake> The expenditure never ends ... :p
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[13:11] <cuddykid> daveake: awesome :D
[13:11] <cuddykid> on my to buy list: ublox 6, sarantel antenna, custom pcb, servos...
[13:12] <cuddykid> have to keep prioritising what I need most
[13:12] <cuddykid> &helium (~£100 eek)
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[13:13] <Upu> PCB's are fairly cheap from Seeedstudio
[13:13] <daveake> £65 here for a BOC 3.6 cu metre cylinder
[13:14] <cuddykid> what, no way daveake?!? Mine was BOC 3.6 just over £80 then £7 for the month
[13:14] <cuddykid> does £65 incl vat?
[13:15] <daveake> http://balloonhelium.co.uk/main/pricing
[13:15] <daveake> That's with me collecting and returning
[13:15] <daveake> Local place is 10 miles away
[13:16] <cuddykid> that is very good - I get it straight from BOC and is much higher
[13:16] <daveake> They list the AP cylinders but they STILL can't supply
[13:16] <daveake> I've looked around several times and still haven't found cheaper.
[13:19] <cuddykid> will certainly note them down - even if they delivered it would still be cheaper
[13:19] <cuddykid> very good
[13:19] <cuddykid> thanks daveake :)
[13:20] Action: cuddykid makes a note
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[13:23] <daveake> bbl - Off to collect the cylinder
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[13:24] <cuddykid> Hi WillDuckworth :)
[13:24] <WillDuckworth> Hi Adam - all good?
[13:25] <cuddykid> launch still on for sat? Looks like a south coast landing :P
[13:25] <cuddykid> yeah thanks, last exam this afternoon so then focus on HAB stuff after!
[13:25] <cuddykid> wbu?
[13:26] <WillDuckworth> don't think i'll launch - looks like it'll go too far and out into the channel :(
[13:26] <cuddykid> it was looking like a +200km away landing - that's a lot :(
[13:27] <cuddykid> when's the notam up?
[13:27] <WillDuckworth> never mind - typically my notam came through no problem too
[13:28] <cuddykid> that's good, sent mine off last weekend, should've arrived on his desk by now :D
[13:28] <cuddykid> can always use mine if I don't get around to building it in time
[13:29] <WillDuckworth> cool - thanks.
[13:30] <WillDuckworth> defo looking at rockoon for it & a cutdown
[13:30] <cuddykid> awesome
[13:30] <cuddykid> btw, have you decided how to implement cutdown? A "through the chute" approach?
[13:31] <WillDuckworth> i think i'm going to keep it separate
[13:31] <WillDuckworth> try to reduce risk of tangles
[13:36] <cuddykid> yeah, good plan
[13:37] <cuddykid> I'm planning to let the chute hang below payload on ascent (don't think the ascent rate is fast enough for chute to open)
[13:37] <cuddykid> it'll be secured to top of payload box so it should fall the right way after cutdown
[13:39] <WillDuckworth> yep - thinking of attaching an extra swivel too
[13:40] <SamSilver_> cuddykid: what acent rate you looking at?
[13:41] <cuddykid> SamSilver_: around 4m/s
[13:42] <SamSilver_> decent around 5 - 6 m/s ??
[13:42] <cuddykid> decent around 8/9/10 ish
[13:43] <cuddykid> ascent varies with prediction, a last min thing
[13:44] <SamSilver_> how goes it with the glider
[13:50] <cuddykid> this isn't for the glider, it should be easy for glider - won't involve cutting down a chute, just needs to cut the cord between glider and balloon - which is far easier
[13:52] <SamSilver_> yip got that - was wondering about the polycarb thing
[13:53] Action: SpeedEvil now has almost enough polycarb
[13:53] <SpeedEvil> ~25m^2
[13:54] <SpeedEvil> (in an ideal world, I'd have another 50m^2
[13:56] <SamSilver_> SpeedEvil: for proctecting solar cells?
[13:56] <SpeedEvil> SamSilver_: Repair of greenhouse, bathroom upgrades.
[13:56] <cuddykid> SamSilver_: only going to run with a small amount of polycarb for the nose bit - the rest will be styrofoam (for the glider I am building)
[13:56] <SpeedEvil> Also a panel for solar panel experiments.
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[13:57] <SamSilver_> polycarb seems to be the thing - my best mate is making fishing lures from polycarb and sending me pics on my phone
[14:06] <SpeedEvil> The major annoyance is the very poor resistance to some chemicals
[14:06] <SpeedEvil> I'm making a 'tray' for my entire bathroom floor out of one sheet. (that will then have silicone 'bobbles' applied.
[14:06] <SpeedEvil> One leetle spill of alcohol, for examaple.
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[15:11] <navrac> payload pcb mkII designed with antenova daughterboard so hopefully i wont trash any more
[15:11] <daveake> :)
[15:13] <navrac> well I only have one left so better safe than sorry. The old pbs is a bit trashed with all the ins and outs
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[15:14] <navrac> I might try for a pico launch next weekend if I can get it built up this weekend.
[15:15] <daveake> I need to start on my pico payload. I've got the bits.
[15:15] <number10> excellent, you'll both have to co-ordinate frequency choise if cloud gets delayed by a week
[15:15] <navrac> are you still launching this weekend?
[15:15] <daveake> Looking doubtful, but I'm still hoping
[15:16] <navrac> Im on an RFM so freq is one line of code
[15:16] <daveake> :-)
[15:16] <number10> thats handy
[15:16] <daveake> I had a quick look through the manual for that. Looks like a nice device.
[15:16] <navrac> well its sunny today here - you could launch now, I'll get the yagi swung round :-)
[15:18] <navrac> Its not too bad - but drifts when you turn the tx on and off. I'm running at 3db during idle tims and upping it to 11db during rtty
[15:18] <WillDuckworth> hey daveake - how long did your ebay special 'hd' mini cam last? was it the one with the updated firmware?
[15:18] <jonsowman> hi daveake, you pinged the other day?
[15:19] <daveake> slow down already :)
[15:19] <daveake> Will - I ran it from the main supply (3 x AAA). It used approx 100mA when on, so my code switched it on for 1 minute at a time roughly, taking a few stills and 30 secs of video.
[15:20] <daveake> Quality was so crap I didn't fly it again, so it's sat here doing nothing.
[15:20] <daveake> Jon - Yeah, the predictor got stuck and showed me exactly the same prediction (for Sunday) when I ran it over a 3-day period
[15:21] <daveake> fsphil zapped the cache then it updated
[15:21] <daveake> The prediction is closer to land now but not close enough!
[15:22] <daveake> Will - no idea what firmware it had. I know there are more recent versions of the hardware out now
[15:23] <daveake> Still wet - http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=a79dca92247c48a2a2c93ebc308f2e249cc23818
[15:24] <cuddykid> :(
[15:24] <daveake> If I had balls I'd go for this one LOL http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=7d790f9fbd73f423c26792cf49be35014532c1e5
[15:25] <cuddykid> daveake: could always go for a slow ascent and high burst - and retrieve from France ;)
[15:26] <navrac> or get a 7ms ascent rate, tear a whole in the parachute and it should land in bognor if you launch sat am
[15:26] <daveake> "land"? :)
[15:27] <daveake> You missed out the word "crash" ;)
[15:28] <daveake> cuddykid - just about http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=576fffee91ef2d0c779a7f604d8853a74132c4e6
[15:28] <cuddykid> nice
[15:28] <navrac> ok , a small tear in the parachute, launch sunday at 7ms ascent and pick it up from the isle of wight - lots of people with boats round there who would help rescue it
[15:29] <daveake> Yeah :-) http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=c5151300383a0c87dff0dadf57517ee33909f1d0
[15:30] <navrac> try 8ms up and 12 down
[15:30] <navrac> bang slap in the middle of the iow
[15:32] <navrac> 12m/s is only err 25mph
[15:32] <daveake> Need approx twice the helium I've got to achieve that ascent rate!
[15:32] <daveake> I believe cloud1 landed approx 25mph.
[15:32] <daveake> It survived
[15:33] <navrac> well leave half the batteries out - it wont be in the air for long
[15:33] <daveake> lol
[15:33] <navrac> 1hr 13min
[15:35] <navrac> or drive over to ears and use their site - you would get excellent picture of London :-)
[15:35] <daveake> The though has crossed my mind :)
[15:35] <daveake> thought
[15:36] <navrac> and get it right and it will burst over gatwick airport as a bonus
[15:36] <daveake> lovely
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[15:47] <Laurenceb> im not sure thatd be a bonus
[15:47] <Laurenceb> especially if it landed on the runway
[15:48] <daveake> Indeed.
[15:48] <navrac> Well if you believe the expression 'any publicity is good publicity'....
[15:48] <navrac> However I think that is the sort of publicity that would get Habbing banned
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[18:27] <daveake> Started on Picobuzz :-)
[18:28] <daveake> BMP085 done .... RFM22B and Hellschreiber to go
[18:30] <Upu> going up high ? I'm interested to see what the drift is like on the RFM
[18:31] <daveake> Well this is for a foil balloon flight, so no, but I'm happy to put it under a latex balloon sometime
[18:31] <Upu> be interesting
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[18:32] <daveake> It won't be ready for my next flight but I can send it up after that, or let someone else fly it
[18:32] <Upu> well
[18:33] <Upu> given it can transmit on a different frequency it could piggy back
[18:33] <daveake> One option would be to fly it as a dual payload with Buzz as the other one.
[18:33] <Upu> yup
[18:34] <daveake> Also, this payload hasa BMP085 and Buzz has an SCP1000, and it would be interesting to correlate those two
[18:34] <WillDuckworth> would be interesting
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[18:37] <jcoxon> evening
[18:37] <cuddykid> exams finished finally - work on habe2 can properly begin
[18:37] <cuddykid> hi jcoxon
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[18:37] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBxeju8dMho&feature=g-u-u&context=G20b9720FUAAAAAAABAA - on geometry and pineapples.
[18:37] <daveake> Evening jcoxon. I'm just starting out on a pico payload with with RFM22B ... should be fun! Will probably have a go at Hellschreiber.
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[18:38] <cuddykid> but first, to cook
[18:38] <Upu> evening
[18:39] <jcoxon> daveake, oh cool
[18:39] <daveake> Arduino Mini Pro + fsa03 + bmp085 + rfm22b + lipower
[18:39] <jcoxon> hehe
[18:39] <daveake> Cloing yours pretty much :)
[18:39] <jcoxon> sounds familiar
[18:39] <jcoxon> :-)
[18:40] <Upu> why change what works
[18:40] <Upu> sorta :)
[18:40] <daveake> bmp085 running, using the code on the Aparkfun site
[18:40] <jcoxon> yeah
[18:40] <daveake> S
[18:40] <jcoxon> daveake, my code is on my github
[18:41] <daveake> I'll try not to copy it too much :)
[18:41] <jcoxon> pah
[18:41] <jcoxon> its there for improving
[18:41] <jcoxon> clone it and improve it
[18:42] <daveake> I'll go get it then ... linky?
[18:43] <daveake> I've not put anything on github but anything I do that's worthwhile I'll put there
[18:43] <jcoxon> https://github.com/jamescoxon
[18:43] <daveake> cheers
[18:43] <daveake> I could have guessed I suppose :)
[18:44] <cuddykid> so nice to be reunited with the rest of my HAB stuff :D
[18:44] Nick change: AndChat| -> NigeyMoby
[18:44] <cuddykid> time to test whether I have blown daveake's mosfet
[18:44] <daveake> Because "it has to be done", I'll fly from one of these - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/120657380582?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649#ht_6164wt_1396 - plus one of Rocketboy's foil balloons for lift
[18:45] Action: daveake has more mosfets, but possibly not enough for cuddykid :p
[18:46] <cuddykid> lol
[18:46] <cuddykid> right - resistance is still -> infinity between pins
[18:46] <cuddykid> good news so far..
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[18:47] <daveake> resistance is futile; infinity especially
[18:47] <fsphil-laptop> the federation should just have kept raising the voltage
[18:48] <daveake> to infinity, and beyond
[18:48] <jcoxon> daveake, remember to setup the GPIO/TX_ANT/RX_ANT
[18:48] <jcoxon> as documented on the wiki
[18:48] <jcoxon> for the rfm22b
[18:48] <daveake> Yeah I remember you discussing that
[18:48] <fsphil-laptop> My project this weekend is to solder up the rfm22b's
[18:51] <Upu> do you want Swift on fsphil ?
[18:53] <cuddykid> sad news - I think I destroyed the other FET - connected another up in the same way and it works
[18:53] <daveake> Need any more?
[18:53] <fsphil-laptop> Upu, are any of the temp sensors on there?
[18:53] <Upu> yup
[18:53] <Upu> onboard one
[18:53] <Upu> its on
[18:53] <fsphil-laptop> ooh.. yea I'll have a go at that in a minute
[18:54] <Upu> Streaming up at www.batc.tv member streams 2e0upu
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[18:59] <WillDuckworth> hey Upu - what capacitors did you use for your gps module breakout?
[18:59] <Upu> 100nF for the decouping
[18:59] <WillDuckworth> which supplier was that from?
[19:00] <Upu> 0603 100nF from anywhere really
[19:00] <Upu> I have 500 from Farnell here
[19:00] <Upu> want some ?
[19:00] <WillDuckworth> aaah yes. thought you could only get them in large amounts.
[19:00] <WillDuckworth> oooh yes please :)
[19:00] <Upu> stamp will weigh more
[19:00] <WillDuckworth> lol
[19:01] <Upu> no you can get them in small amounts but 500 were £2
[19:01] <Upu> from Farnell mail me your address I'll sort it tomorrow
[19:02] <WillDuckworth> cool - i'll investigate and get back to you - thanks :)
[19:02] <Upu> afk
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[19:50] <Laurenceb_> yoyo
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[19:57] <daveake> Right, rfm22b soldered to the back of the pro ... http://imgur.com/1MraU
[19:57] <daveake> Underneat is the bmp085
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[19:58] Action: Laurenceb_ read that as soldered back to front
[19:59] <daveake> better not be :)
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[19:59] <daveake> I found some pins that lined up (well almost) so I use 2 pin headers either side to support the board, then wires for the other lines
[20:00] <daveake> bmp05 is running but I've not started on the rfm22 yet. Something for the weekend.
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[20:02] <number10> something for the weekend? I hope that you are not doing that in the chase car!
[20:02] <daveake> Chase car? I'll need a boat!
[20:03] <number10> something for the weekend sir?... yes I'll take an rfm22 please.
[20:04] <number10> sorry
[20:04] <daveake> :D
[20:05] <number10> *number10 hides for a while
[20:05] Action: hibby boggles his mind over multiple monitor & multiple remote desktop sessions
[20:05] <hibby> happytimes in the office
[20:06] <daveake> Don't make me post my setup again :)
[20:06] <daveake> OK as you insist ... http://imgur.com/Pu3EO
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[20:08] <hibby> I know I know
[20:08] <hibby> but I've got 2 monitors displaying 2 different machines in the building
[20:08] <hibby> meaning happyhibby
[20:09] <daveake> So if you used those to view your payload, it'd be a happyhibbyHABbyhobby?
[20:09] <daveake> I'll get my coat ....
[20:10] <fsphil-laptop> love the keyboard daveake
[20:10] Upu (~Upu@2a00:14f0:e028::2) joined #highaltitude.
[20:10] <daveake> Proper IBM clacky one.
[20:10] <daveake> I've got a spare for when it dies
[20:10] <daveake> Which it won't
[20:10] <fsphil-laptop> nope, that'll outlive all of us
[20:11] <daveake> Anyway ... food. Later :-)
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[20:14] <hibby> I gave my model M away
[20:14] <hibby> got on my tits
[20:14] WillDuckworth (~will@host109-158-28-77.range109-158.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Quit: Ex-Chat
[20:14] <hibby> got a space saver II however, which is also THE SHIT.
[20:19] <fsphil-laptop> I've an AT keyboard I hacked onto my amiga. big beastie, was great
[20:19] <fsphil-laptop> still have it somewhere
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[20:30] <costyn> so... anyone have any suggestions on getting Windows 7 to port line-in audio to my speakers? I've clicked all the right buttons, but yet get no hiss from my radio
[20:32] <Upu> right click the speak
[20:32] <costyn> question 2: how do you guys program your 817 memories? there are some programs online, but none seem very userfriendly
[20:32] <Upu> recording devices
[20:32] <Upu> click recording
[20:32] <Upu> click the input device
[20:33] <Upu> properties
[20:33] <Upu> listen
[20:33] <costyn> yup yup
[20:33] <Upu> check listen to this device
[20:33] <costyn> got that far
[20:33] <costyn> no joy
[20:33] <Upu> and the memories 1 sec
[20:33] <costyn> maybe it's cause my headset is a usb thingy
[20:33] <Upu> so's mine
[20:33] <costyn> and the sound is coming in analog ...
[20:33] <costyn> hmm
[20:33] <Upu> squletch down ?
[20:34] <costyn> well i'm seeing the line in level moving, so there's def signal
[20:34] <costyn> and dl-fldigi has a nice waterfall too
[20:34] <Upu> http://f5bud.free.fr/817mem.php
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[20:34] <costyn> Upu: ok found that one, was one I thought was too user unfriendly, but maybe I shouldn't discount it that quick?
[20:35] <fsphil-laptop> most of those memory programs are a bit iffy
[20:35] <fsphil-laptop> same as amateur websites I guess
[20:35] <costyn> Upu: the warnings about making backups of all my settings put me off :)
[20:35] <Upu> I use it all the time its a bit messy but works well
[20:35] <costyn> ok
[20:35] <Upu> put one thing in memory first
[20:36] <Upu> then you see the format
[20:36] <Upu> okso this sound
[20:36] <costyn> :)
[20:37] <Upu> you have a jack from the radio
[20:37] <costyn> yes
[20:37] <Upu> to a usb sound card ?
[20:37] <Upu> which is into your PC
[20:37] <costyn> no it's the line in on the back of the PC
[20:37] <Upu> oh ok direct
[20:37] <costyn> that bit works fine 'm sure, cause I've been decoding payload sentences in dl-fldigi just fine
[20:37] <Upu> just not coming out of the speakers ?
[20:37] <costyn> exactly
[20:38] <Upu> you know under the listen
[20:38] <costyn> hmm maybe I should just try bypassing the USB sound bit and try plugging the headset directly into the computer
[20:38] <Upu> when you check it
[20:38] <Upu> what do you have underneth for playback using ?
[20:39] <Upu> ooo wait
[20:39] <costyn> My USB PNP SOund device
[20:39] <Upu> double click the speakers
[20:39] <Upu> mixer
[20:39] <Upu> scroll along
[20:39] <Upu> volume for that device is ?
[20:39] <costyn> about 50
[20:40] <Upu> not muted ?
[20:40] <costyn> when I click preview in the next tab, I hear it ping, so that bit is working
[20:40] <Upu> "USB PNP SOund device" = speakers ?
[20:40] <costyn> yea
[20:40] <Upu> no idea
[20:40] <Upu> :)
[20:40] <costyn> heheh
[20:40] <costyn> ok good it's not me :)
[20:40] <costyn> gonna try plugging in an analog headset
[20:41] <cuddykid> has anyone flown a "stabilised" balloon before? Wouldn't that be the answer to the superpressure/long duration flights?
[20:45] <costyn> Upu: weird... doesn't even work when I use an analog port
[20:45] <costyn> Upu: anyways, thanks for playing :P
[20:46] <Upu> nps
[20:47] <costyn> strange thing is I had it working one time, think fldigi might've beenhelping out somehow
[20:48] <costyn> anyways I give up
[20:48] <costyn> gonna get me one of those splitters to put between the line to the computer and the headset
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[20:51] Nick change: daveake_ -> daveake
[21:04] <griffonbot> Received email: daveake "[UKHAS] Re: Balloon positions by SMS"
[21:07] <cuddykid> good idea daveake :)
[21:07] <daveake> I like it :)
[21:07] <cuddykid> yep :D
[21:11] <daveake> I was looking around for an SMS gateway to do this myself. I found this - http://www.alexonlinux.com/how-to-send-sms-message-with-python - which covers sending an SMS using a particular SMS gateway. Good excuse to learn python which seems to be a nice language.
[21:11] <cuddykid> python is meant to be a great language - never tried it myself though
[21:16] <cuddykid> now this is cool - http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-auto-drone-20120126,0,740306.story
[21:17] Action: cuddykid thinks about deploying it from a HAB - but then thinks how he can't even get a cutdown working :P
[21:18] <daveake> :)
[21:25] <SpeedEvil> http://xkcd.com/652/ :/
[21:27] <fsphil-laptop> they're under the control of the humans.... for now
[21:31] <cuddykid> woo! - I haven't bust my FET after all :D
[21:31] <fsphil-laptop> good news everyone!
[21:31] <cuddykid> now to try and work out why the ***** hell it doesn't work :/
[21:31] <cuddykid> lol
[21:31] Action: SpeedEvil imagines fsphil-zoidberg.
[21:34] <fsphil-laptop> nah, I could never be as good a doctor as zoidberg
[21:36] <cuddykid> this is very weird...
[21:41] <cuddykid> ok....
[21:42] <cuddykid> right, the FET was working after all however there is no where near required volt/current going through nichrome to heat it up - which is odd
[21:43] <cuddykid> the only thing that could possibly affect it is the resistor on the gate pin - would this affect current/volt for main cutdown circuit?
[21:46] <cuddykid> clearly not as I've just wired it up without resistor
[21:46] <cuddykid> hmm :/
[21:48] <Randomskk> there may be a voltage drop over the FET
[21:49] <cuddykid> appears the FET is working ok. However I'm presented with this situation:
[21:49] <cuddykid> If I connect up the nichrome to either end of 2aas (in battery pack) - works great - heats up quickly as expected
[21:50] <cuddykid> however, If I use the FET to toggle on/off the voltage across the nichrome is ridiculously low ~0.1v?
[21:51] <Randomskk> what's the voltage across the FET?
[21:51] <Randomskk> like, source to drain
[21:51] <Randomskk> and where is the FET - high side or low side?
[21:51] <Randomskk> and is it an n channel or a p channel FET?
[21:51] <cuddykid> 0.1v
[21:51] <cuddykid> n channel
[21:52] <Randomskk> and what's its turn-on voltage?
[21:52] <Randomskk> 0.1V is across the nichrome or the FET or both?
[21:52] <cuddykid> 3v battery supply
[21:52] <cuddykid> into fet
[21:52] <Randomskk> 3V might not be enough to turn the FET on...
[21:52] <cuddykid> 0.1v across nichrome
[21:52] <Laurenceb_> nichrome has a low resistance
[21:52] <Randomskk> what model number?
[21:52] <cuddykid> when gate is activated
[21:52] <Laurenceb_> id use a 10ohm resistor
[21:52] <cuddykid> rum, one sec
[21:53] <cuddykid> http://uk.farnell.com/toshiba/2sk2989-tpe6-f/mosfet-n-ch-5a-50v-to92/dp/1714337
[21:53] <cuddykid> Laurenceb_: across where?
[21:53] <Laurenceb_> as the cutdown
[21:54] <cuddykid> currently I have: vcc -> 10K ohm -> gate
[21:54] <Randomskk> nichrome should work
[21:54] <cuddykid> vcc -> nichrome -> drain
[21:54] <cuddykid> source -> gnd
[21:55] <Laurenceb_> http://ukhas.org.uk/_media/projects:dscn1015.jpg
[21:55] <Laurenceb_> theres a 10ohm resistor under the orange plastic
[21:56] <Randomskk> cuddykid: what voltage do you measure between battery -ve and FET gate?
[21:57] <Randomskk> and what voltage between battery -ve and FET drain?
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[21:57] <cuddykid> one sec
[21:59] <cuddykid> 2.45v between battery -ve and FET gate
[21:59] <cuddykid> 2.44v between battery -ve and FET drain
[22:02] <Randomskk> what makes you think the FET is working correctly?
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[22:02] <cuddykid> hooked it up to LED and works fine
[22:03] <Randomskk> in place of the nichrome?
[22:03] <cuddykid> along side it - will replace it now
[22:04] <Randomskk> ...along side? surely the nichrome would just short the LED..?
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[22:08] <cuddykid> argh
[22:08] <cuddykid> replaced with led - now led won't turn on however voltage across led ~1.5v
[22:11] <Laurenceb_> http://www.st.com/internet/com/press_release/p3267.jsp
[22:11] <Laurenceb_> "Industry-First Car-Door Controller IC"
[22:12] <Laurenceb_> yes its first because its so wtf
[22:12] <cuddykid> Randomskk: current is getting slaughtered - current from vcc -> led (when hooked up to FET) is about 2.5uA
[22:13] <SpeedEvil> It should be quite visible in the dark
[22:13] <SpeedEvil> @2.5uA
[22:13] <cuddykid> uhh?!
[22:14] <cuddykid> ohh led
[22:14] <cuddykid> possibly - not visible at all in light
[22:14] <cuddykid> but why is there such a current (and voltage) drop?
[22:14] <SpeedEvil> Sorry - what are you doing again - I missed scroll
[22:15] <cuddykid> current & voltage across FET are getting drastically reduced for some mysterious reason
[22:15] <cuddykid> e.g. voltage across nichrome is 0.1v
[22:15] <SpeedEvil> When you try to turn it on?
[22:15] <cuddykid> vcc = 3v
[22:16] <SpeedEvil> What FET is this?
[22:16] <cuddykid> yeah, when power at gate
[22:16] <cuddykid> http://uk.farnell.com/toshiba/2sk2989-tpe6-f/mosfet-n-ch-5a-50v-to92/dp/1714337
[22:16] <SpeedEvil> Apply 9V to the gate
[22:16] <SpeedEvil> See if it's better
[22:17] <SpeedEvil> yeah - you're barely over the threshold voltage
[22:17] <cuddykid> one sec
[22:17] <SpeedEvil> See the datasheet - Vgs(th) is as high as 2.2V
[22:17] Action: cuddykid getting lost in a mass of wires
[22:17] <daveake> Indeed
[22:17] <SpeedEvil> At which it's specified as 1mA with 10V Vds
[22:18] <daveake> Get rid of that resistor to the gate
[22:18] <fsphil> hehe, there was a 2.2 magnitude tremor not far from here
[22:18] <SpeedEvil> This confuses so many people. The figure you really want is 'drain source on resistance'
[22:18] <cuddykid> voila
[22:18] <cuddykid> appears to work (with LED at least)
[22:18] <cuddykid> thanks :D
[22:18] <SpeedEvil> Err
[22:19] <SpeedEvil> you have a voltage divider feeding the gate?
[22:19] <daveake> The 2.2 was cuddykid jumping up and down
[22:19] <cuddykid> I was just using the 2aa batteries (supplying drain/source) to test gate
[22:19] <daveake> Not enough volts
[22:19] <SpeedEvil> Flatish or rechargeable?
[22:20] <cuddykid> flatish
[22:20] <SpeedEvil> See the first graph on page 3
[22:20] <SpeedEvil> For why that doesn't work
[22:20] <cuddykid> YAY! :D
[22:20] <cuddykid> it works
[22:21] <SpeedEvil> However.
[22:21] <SpeedEvil> The threshold will rise as temperature drops
[22:21] <cuddykid> I'm using 5v serial from arduino to operate
[22:21] <cuddykid> that should be enough above right?
[22:21] <daveake> s/serial/signal/ I assume
[22:22] <SpeedEvil> yes
[22:22] <cuddykid> awesome - that's solved a big headache :P thanks :)
[22:23] <cuddykid> and daveake's 2 FETs are still alive, just :)
[22:23] <SpeedEvil> At -40C, it will behave as it does on the bench with -4.2V applied to the gate as it does with 5V in the air
[22:24] <cuddykid> so it should be alright, just?
[22:24] <SpeedEvil> yes
[22:24] <cuddykid> good
[22:24] <SpeedEvil> Probably
[22:24] <daveake> If it switches partially on, the heat will soon warm it up :D
[22:24] <SpeedEvil> Worst case for a cutdown is that it's marginal on the ground, and then when in the air is off enough that it doesn't self-heat the transistor to working point when turned on
[22:24] <SpeedEvil> That can actually happen with some transistors
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[22:36] <fsphil-laptop> just nearly dumped a 16gb sd card in the bin
[22:36] <daveake> Oops
[22:37] <fsphil-laptop> forgot I put it into an envelope, fell out when I through it at the bin
[22:37] <SpeedEvil> They are getting way too small.
[22:37] <daveake> I "found" a 1GB card where Buzz1 landed. Except it was there because it fell out of my camera bag!
[22:37] <SpeedEvil> haha
[22:38] <daveake> Only realised when I saw the pictures on it :)
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[22:38] <daveake> TV weather said just now the forecast for Sunday is "uncertain"
[22:39] <daveake> So they have even less of a clue than usual
[22:39] <cuddykid> daveake: prepare for oz landing ;)
[22:39] <Darkside> :D
[22:39] <daveake> It won't float!
[22:39] <Darkside> suuuuure
[22:40] <cuddykid> hwoyee?
[22:40] <daveake> If I do fly it'll be well inflated :)
[22:40] <daveake> Yeah, 1000g
[22:40] Action: cuddykid gets out the long range yagi
[22:40] <cuddykid> lol
[22:41] <SpeedEvil> We need proper forecasts.
[22:41] <SpeedEvil> It shouldn't be that hard to get better than the met office :)
[22:41] <fsphil-laptop> ooh, someone mention float? :)
[22:42] <daveake> Well I suppose I could send Buzz up again to float, and wave him a fond goodbye
[22:44] <daveake> He'd need a passport and return instructions in French
[22:45] <Upu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyi_9g8dlu4&feature=g-u-u&context=G269fef6FUAAAAAAABAA
[22:45] <Upu> this was from 1st oct last year
[22:45] <Upu> when I launched
[22:46] <Upu> really nice payload very small
[22:46] <Upu> heaters on the lenses
[22:47] <daveake> Neat little payload
[22:47] <Upu> note the pink one in the back ground :)
[22:47] <Upu> yeah its a lovely payload
[22:48] <daveake> :)
[22:48] <Upu> he did his own telemetry but this one he did UKHAS telemetry
[22:50] <Upu> interesting the images are very very similar to Ava's
[22:50] <Upu> I can't have been too far under him
[22:50] <daveake> He's got at least a couple of photographic payloads up near the top of the altitude table. Nice small payload + 2000g balloon I think
[22:51] <Upu> yeah
[22:51] <Upu> Well my plan is get a photo payload under 400g
[22:51] <daveake> cloud3 is ginormous in comparison :)
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[22:51] <daveake> Yeah I'm going to do a camera in one of those 125mm balls. I checked and it will fit, just :)
[22:51] <Upu> it was a very tidy payload very well engineered
[22:52] <daveake> For cloud3 I sized it to keep the ground plane completely within the box, so it's quite large.
[22:52] <Upu> that is something I'm considering too
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[22:53] <Upu> I was going to use thinner insulation
[22:53] <daveake> The cameras fit into little polystyrene pods which slide in. Those are 50mm thick to hold the cameras; outside shell is 25mm.
[22:53] <Upu> my outside shell is 20mm atm
[22:53] <Upu> but reinforced with the signature gaffer
[22:54] <Upu> I think I could get it to 10mm without loosing too much rigidity
[22:54] <daveake> :-). The lid and base are stepped so they hold the cameras in place.
[22:54] <Upu> yup same here
[22:54] <daveake> So it all bolts together reeally easily. Unlike my first attempt :p
[22:55] <daveake> From above - http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveake/6733053347/in/set-72157628868749177
[22:56] <daveake> The other walls (the ones without cameras) are 50mm thick. One holds the processor batteries and the other holds the phone.
[22:56] <Upu> should use some of the blue higher density foam its stronger
[22:56] <daveake> Yeah, I plan to
[22:56] <daveake> But I do have lots of this stuff :p
[23:00] <daveake> Who sells the blue stuff? Can't remember seeing any for sale anywhere
[23:00] <cuddykid> I have lots and lots of blue stuff
[23:00] <cuddykid> hindleys is where to get it from :D
[23:01] <cuddykid> http://www.hindleys.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=7_57_60_292
[23:01] <cuddykid> they're very good
[23:01] <daveake> ta
[23:02] <cuddykid> building my glider out of that stuff
[23:04] <SpeedEvil> http://www.cabp.co.uk/acatalog/10mm_HAZE_Reform_Polycarbonate.html
[23:04] <SpeedEvil> is a hell of a lot stiffer than I was expecting
[23:04] <SpeedEvil> Could be used to make truly large stuff.
[23:04] <Upu> I got mine from Hindleys
[23:05] <Upu> right night all
[23:05] <daveake> nn
[23:05] <fsphil-laptop> nites
[23:08] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l2736&_nkw=dichloromethane - argh - cunning pricing.
[23:08] <SpeedEvil> 'but the next size up is only...'
[23:09] <SpeedEvil> In reality, I think I need about 20ml, so I am not getting the 2.5l container - even if it is only double the price of the 500ml.
[23:09] <cuddykid> cya Upu
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[23:23] <cuddykid> has anyone had experience with Sparkfun tech support? Emailed them 3 days ago, haven't had a response yet..
[23:24] <daveake> They're probably busy shipping all that free kit!
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[23:25] <cuddykid> lol
[23:29] <cuddykid> my question is actually about a free item :D
[23:34] <daveake> http://thumbsnap.com/Ew6lPLuo
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[00:00] --- Fri Jan 27 2012