highaltitude.log.20120124

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[01:16] <Randomskk> anyone in the UK around?
[01:17] <Dan-K2VOL> here in the US
[01:17] <Randomskk> sadly this only works with UK cell phones :(
[01:30] <SpeedEvil> I'm in the UK.
[01:30] <SpeedEvil> I think.
[01:30] Action: SpeedEvil checks out the door.
[01:30] <SpeedEvil> Yup.
[01:31] <SpeedEvil> Randomskk:
[01:32] <Randomskk> SpeedEvil: no longer require testers, but anyway for interest's sake
[01:32] <Randomskk> a UK cell phone can now text 020 33221 HAB with a case-sensitive payload name and receive its latest known position (via habitat)
[01:35] <Randomskk> no promises of permanence, subject to being taken offline whenever, but for now, it should work
[01:35] <Dan-K2VOL> neat
[01:36] <Randomskk> Dan-K2VOL: sadly doing international sms with automated systems is... tricky and expensive
[01:36] <Randomskk> on the other hand
[01:36] <Randomskk> making a USA phone number for the same service would be very easy
[01:36] <Randomskk> I wonder about aus
[01:36] <Randomskk> not australia, sadly.
[01:36] <Dan-K2VOL> Perhaps just do a short email that you can sms to
[01:37] <Randomskk> oh man, I forgot about sms to emails
[01:37] <Randomskk> the issue is replying, though
[01:37] <Randomskk> receiving the text is no problem
[01:37] <Randomskk> but sending a response is the hard bit
[01:37] <Dan-K2VOL> well here in the states when you send a text to email, you just have to reply to the email from address
[01:37] <SpeedEvil> Ah
[01:37] <SpeedEvil> Neat!
[01:38] <Dan-K2VOL> (it will be YOURPHONENUMBER@txt.att.net ) or similar
[01:38] <Randomskk> ah I see
[01:38] <Randomskk> that could be done
[01:38] <Dan-K2VOL> what's your email, I'll text you
[01:40] <Randomskk> adam@adamgreig.com
[01:43] <Dan-K2VOL> ok just sent
[01:43] <Randomskk> ah, I see
[01:43] <Randomskk> and if there was an email reply it'd get to your sms?
[01:43] <Randomskk> I guess that works because you guys in theory pay for incoming SMS
[01:43] <Dan-K2VOL> I think so, try just sending a short reply
[01:43] <Dan-K2VOL> yes we do
[01:43] <Randomskk> we pay for outgoing but not incoming texts, so it wouldn't make much sense to have an email address that got it to us for free
[01:43] <Dan-K2VOL> oh interesting!
[01:44] <Dan-K2VOL> ah well, I'm not sure which situation is better :-P
[01:44] <Randomskk> however rigging up some kind of email system would probably be feasible and rather international
[01:44] <Randomskk> indeed. it's nice to not pay to receive texts, that sounds really odd, but it does mean we can't have nice things like that
[01:44] <Randomskk> then again I guess you're on a contract that gives unlimited/many texts anyway?
[01:46] <Dan-K2VOL> well, personally I've got 200 per month, but I try to keep usage down
[01:47] <Randomskk> fair enough
[01:47] <Randomskk> right, I have to get to sleep, stupidly busy day tomorrow
[01:47] <Dan-K2VOL> unlimited text messages is like $20 12.8£ per month extra, which is ridiculous to me.
[01:47] <Randomskk> blimey, yes
[01:47] <Randomskk> I think it's £4 extra for me
[01:47] <Dan-K2VOL> night Adam
[01:47] <Randomskk> but I get one £4 extra for free with the contract, so picked that
[01:48] <Randomskk> so it's kinda free
[01:48] <Randomskk> seeya!
[01:57] <juxta> Dan-K2VOL: is it common in the US to pay for incoming texts?
[01:59] <Zuph> Yep
[01:59] <juxta> hmm. do you pay to send too?
[01:59] <Zuph> The carriers try to ream every last penny out of customers.
[01:59] <Zuph> Yep.
[01:59] <juxta> that's just rude, i thought it was bad enough here
[02:02] <Zuph> $70 a month for 450 minutes of talking, 3gb of smartphone data, and 0 text messages.
[02:02] <Zuph> With a 2 year contract.
[02:03] <Zuph> You can find better deals than that, but that isn't some extremely bad deal, just a standard wireless plan through AT&T
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[02:11] <juxta> Zuph: how much do text messages cost?
[02:12] <Zuph> you can buy packages of 200 for like $5 from most carriers, or unlimited for $10-$15. If you go over, they could be $0.05-$0.15
[02:14] <Zuph> Carriers like Virgin Mobile and Cricket offer better deals, but have less coverage and older phones.
[02:21] <juxta> Zuph: what about receiving?
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[02:27] <Zuph> juxta: Same cost, either way.
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[08:27] <number10> prediction is no better
[08:27] <daveake> Nope
[08:28] <eroomde> stiiiil early days
[08:28] <eroomde> l
[08:28] <number10> indeed
[08:28] <daveake> You think it might change enough?
[08:28] <eroomde> it's certainly been my experience that it's not worth cancelling until about 48hours out
[08:28] <Randomskk> hey eroomde, check it out
[08:28] <daveake> Thanks Ed
[08:28] <Randomskk> text a case-sensitive payload name such as WEASEL to 020 33221 HAB
[08:29] <eroomde> and even within 48 hours there can be a lot of variation from one forcast run to the next
[08:29] <Randomskk> (or anyone with a UK phone, for that matter)
[08:29] <eroomde> especially with higher entropy weather (which is to say, bad weather, twirly jetstreams, etc). they have more variance on the prediction
[08:29] <eroomde> so are more subject to change
[08:30] stilldavid (~david@stilldavid.com) got lost in the net-split.
[08:30] <number10> depends on the speed of the high pressure system that is expected to move into the channel
[08:30] <eroomde> Randomskk: what is 'HAB' in numbers?
[08:30] <eroomde> i don't have a numpad
[08:31] <daveake> I wqs wondering that if it changes but not enough, ending up being more west and less south than it is, would it be possible to launch from Cambs instead. It would then pretty much come home :)
[08:31] <eroomde> that would be cool
[08:31] <Randomskk> 422 >_>
[08:31] <eroomde> sent
[08:31] <eroomde> heh
[08:31] <eroomde> clever
[08:33] <Randomskk> twilio + heroku, took an hour last night when I should have been doing a lab report
[08:33] <eroomde> :)
[08:33] <Randomskk> twilio hits http://smshabitat.heroku.com/latest_position?Body=WEASEL when it gets a text, the xml makes it text back
[08:33] <eroomde> amazing how having to do lab reports boosts productivity at things which aren't lab reports
[08:33] <Randomskk> seriously
[08:34] <eroomde> like the best time for my hobby stuff was always the last 3 days of holiday before term
[08:34] <Randomskk> oh, totally, I designed, routed and ordered two separate PCBs in those days
[08:35] <eroomde> that's very cool
[08:35] <eroomde> nice job
[08:39] <Darkside> haha
[08:39] <Darkside> i finally have a real office
[08:39] <Randomskk> :o photos, obviously
[08:39] <Darkside> which really increases my desire to acrtually be at uni
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[08:39] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/N2CxB.jpg
[08:39] <Darkside> well, 'office'
[08:39] <Darkside> desk
[08:39] <Darkside> and lab
[08:40] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/WysOO.jpg
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[08:40] <Darkside> theres the lab, i'm at the back of it, hidden by the bookshelves
[08:40] <Randomskk> sweet :o
[08:43] <UpuWork> morning all
[08:44] <number10> mornin
[08:46] <daveake> morn
[08:46] <UpuWork> Swift is alive Darkside
[08:46] <daveake> Randomskk Just tried that texting thing - very neat!
[08:47] <UpuWork> don't know if you followed it last night but fsphil SSH'd into my machine (via ipv6 for added geek) and got blink working on it
[08:51] <eroomde> blink?
[08:51] <UpuWork> just blinks the LED on SCK
[08:51] <UpuWork> so we know the AVR is working before I start soldering expensive GPS chips to the board
[08:52] <eroomde> ah nice
[08:52] <Darkside> cool
[08:52] <daveake> Distributed development
[08:52] <eroomde> and appreciate the added geek :)
[08:52] <UpuWork> indeed
[08:52] <eroomde> next stop - telnet into your hab
[08:52] <eroomde> and reflash on the fly
[08:52] <UpuWork> hey with RFM22B...
[08:52] <eroomde> or on the float, ig uess
[08:52] <UpuWork> ok real work to do bbl
[08:53] <eroomde> yup me too
[08:53] <Darkside> grrg i want to get some RFM22Bs
[08:53] <Darkside> but sparkfun is out of stock
[08:53] <Darkside> no wait
[08:53] <Darkside> they just got the back in stock
[08:53] <Darkside> time to order some
[08:53] <Darkside> hm i didnt get the email
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[08:59] <Darkside> ordering 6 of them
[08:59] <Darkside> for playing with and potential payloads
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[09:51] <fsphil> I just got two myself
[09:52] <fsphil> they're sooo tiny
[09:52] <hibby> don't maplins have similar?
[09:52] <hibby> :)
[09:53] <fsphil> I got them from proto pic
[09:53] <daveake> I should be getting the breakout version today.
[09:55] <fsphil> I'm interested in seeing if the bandwidth of one of its built in modes is small enough to do with an ft817
[09:55] <fsphil> so we could do a high power uplink
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[10:00] <Darkside> fsphil: well they have a OOK mode
[10:01] <Darkside> but i'm thinking of doing an uplink using the RSSI measurement function
[10:01] <Darkside> so you can use key-clicks on an FM transmitter to do it
[10:01] <Darkside> like, click click <pause> click <pause> click click click click <pause> click
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[10:14] <fsphil> that might work
[10:15] <Darkside> apparnetly eroomde here did something similar with a CC1111
[10:16] <gonzo_> those sort of systems are very prone to falsing by noise
[10:16] <gonzo_> not good if it's a mission critical op
[10:16] <fsphil> a nice checksum should help there
[10:16] <fsphil> 32-bit
[10:17] <Darkside> it would be looking for certain timed transmissions
[10:17] <Darkside> a better bet would be to record and re-play an OOK packet using a ground-based radio
[10:17] <Darkside> use the lowest baud rate possible with the device
[10:17] <fsphil> the device probably has some form of CRC anyway
[10:17] <Darkside> yeah, the packets have somethign like that
[10:18] <Darkside> i was planning on quite literally recording and playing back a packet
[10:18] <Darkside> and seeing if it works over distance
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[10:58] <earthshine> o/
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[11:13] <cuddykid> pinging Upu, pinging Upu
[11:14] <cuddykid> question regarding rf sma panel mount: is this the right one? -> http://www.rfsupplier.com/hole-panel-mount-plug-with-extended-dielectricsolder-post-p-53.html
[11:20] <WillDuckworth> not sure it is..
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[11:27] <UpuWork> hi
[11:27] <UpuWork> negative cuddykid wrong part selected
[11:27] <UpuWork> gimmie a few mins I'll find my original order
[11:28] <cuddykid> ahh, cheers :D
[11:28] <cuddykid> WillDuckworth: hiya :) how's the predictions looking?
[11:32] <UpuWork> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SMA-Jack-panel-mount-4-hole-connector-goldplated-/290424974295?pt=UK_Computing_Networking_SM&hash=item439ead6bd7
[11:32] <cuddykid> thanks
[11:32] <UpuWork> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-X-SMA-male-SMA-male-double-straight-pigtail-RG316-/300571916847?pt=UK_Computing_Networking_SM&hash=item45fb7b7a2f
[11:33] <UpuWork> thats the pig tail but find the single units if you don't want 10
[11:33] <UpuWork> those are £9.60 each at Farnell
[11:34] <cuddykid> will try and find on the rfsupplier.com site
[11:34] <UpuWork> rfchina = rfsupplier btw
[11:34] <UpuWork> rfchina is just their E-Bay store
[11:35] <cuddykid> yeah :)
[11:35] <cuddykid> http://www.rfsupplier.com/hole-panel-mount-jack-with-solder-post-terminal-p-180.html
[11:35] <cuddykid> looks right
[11:49] <UpuWork> yep it does
[12:17] <griffonbot> Received email: Spike (Chris Foote) "[UKHAS] Fwd: Elektor Weekly Special | Join The Icarus Challenge"
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[12:19] <fsphil> the bot lives
[12:19] <daveake> :)
[12:20] <Elwell> oh FYI ( a re-cap for anyone who might have missed the start of this, we plan to 1) copy this http://space.1337arts.com/ and then 2) improve on it with random cool stuff like a homing parafoil once we've got it working)
[12:20] <Elwell> ... from the robitics club here at work
[12:21] <Elwell> so I suspect given all their brewery / pissup / failure skills so far, it may not go as planned :-)
[12:33] <fsphil> don't copy the website style
[12:33] <fsphil> please
[12:37] <Elwell> :-)
[12:37] <Elwell> I suspect they'll want it more geocities with DANCING PONIES!
[12:43] <daveake> Ponies in space!
[12:43] <daveake> Darkside already has that one planned :p
[12:47] <Laurenceb> http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1577177
[12:48] <SpeedEvil> http://www.crazyshoppingcart.com/58g-200mw-wireless-av-transmitter-module-p-5438.html
[12:49] <Laurenceb> together they give.... peadovision
[12:49] <hibby> yayponies!
[12:50] <Laurenceb> i still need to write in to the daily mail with my suggestion to have a aegis defense system on every primary school, using sex offenders database combined with cctv and facial recognition
[12:51] <daveake> they'll like that
[12:51] <SpeedEvil> Too loud!
[12:52] <SpeedEvil> It'd need fitted with massive silencers, so not to wake people up.
[12:52] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlEcGHxfltE
[12:53] <daveake> lol
[12:53] <daveake> top comment: "is it real ????"
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[12:54] <fsphil> haha
[12:54] <fsphil> I never watched that show when it was on, wish I had now
[12:55] <daveake> ditto
[12:56] <hibby> pedogeddon,classic
[12:56] <Dibblah> Hey, all. I'm looking for some antenna help. Trying to convert a tiny 5.8Ghz integrated video transmitter / camera for plane use. Initial design was a monopole, with what looks like not a big enough groundplane, I'm trying to strap a cloverleaf onto it. Anyone have any experience with the antenna matching network here?
[12:57] <Dibblah> https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-n7ol_37Kj_s/TxyH5IU3nyI/AAAAAAAACmM/FKI23QKTaPc/s800/IMG_0661.JPG
[12:59] <Randomskk> so this http://www.element14.com/community/groups/project-icarus
[12:59] <Randomskk> anyone got any ideas on solving their challenge, then
[13:00] <daveake> Satellite modem. Job done. :)
[13:00] <UpuWork> haha
[13:00] <jonsowman> nice
[13:00] <UpuWork> know who set that challenge ?
[13:00] <UpuWork> <-
[13:02] <UpuWork> then you buggers turned up with RFM22's
[13:02] <jonsowman> haha
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[13:03] <Laurenceb> Learn about Robert Harrison and his amazing work lauching satelites into low-earth orbit.
[13:04] <Laurenceb> what
[13:04] <fsphil> is that why rob's been so quiet lately? :)
[13:04] <jonsowman> that's what i was wondering Laurenceb
[13:04] <cuddykid> lol
[13:05] <cuddykid> just got an offer from JP Morgan for a spring week :D
[13:06] <UpuWork> Family and Farnell stuff I think
[13:06] <cuddykid> back to the mosfet though.. I think I must have fried it whilst soldering :S
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[13:09] <Dibblah> My trivial approach - https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-RtIHowOIgis/Tx6s3CM2vbI/AAAAAAAACog/oEvdXjxcNWg/s800/IMG_0698.JPG
[13:10] <Dibblah> (Make the bottom ground plane continuous and remove the on-board section of the monopole)
[13:10] <eroomde> the challenge of 2 way communication is solved...
[13:11] <Laurenceb> how
[13:11] <eroomde> although dealing with uk laws is the challenging bit
[13:11] <Laurenceb> xbee 868mhz?
[13:11] <Laurenceb> :P
[13:11] <Laurenceb> - the xbee pro that is
[13:11] <eroomde> i guess yeah
[13:12] <eroomde> or 169mhz 500mW
[13:12] <Laurenceb> £62 on farnell :/
[13:12] <eroomde> 500mW erp is limiting
[13:12] <eroomde> unless you can have some kind of electronically or mechanically sterrable array on the balloon
[13:12] <Laurenceb> i dont know what youll see of the ground
[13:18] <eroomde> but yeah, i think the challenge would be doing it within unlicensed limits
[13:18] <eroomde> otherwise they're really no challenge
[13:18] <Dibblah> If it's slow enough descent, just use a cell-phone...
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[13:20] <eroomde> thankfully the spec it has to comply with ir2030
[13:20] <eroomde> so that's all good
[13:20] <eroomde> interesting
[13:20] <fsphil> that in the rules?
[13:21] <fsphil> aah, whoever wins gets a free trip
[13:21] <eroomde> ... to england
[13:21] <fsphil> lol
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[13:23] <Dibblah> Does anyone have any use for some SMA (not RP-SMA) male leads?
[13:23] <fsphil> I've used those to make antennas for my payloads
[13:24] <Dibblah> Yeah, but they're not reverse polarity, so useless to me :(
[13:25] <fsphil> yea, all those video senders and wifi devices seem to have standardised on RP-SMA
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[13:28] <fsphil> do you get much range out of the 5ghz modules?
[13:28] <Dibblah> Someone's tested 200mW out to 2k.
[13:28] <fsphil> aah, quite a bit of power
[13:29] <Dibblah> That's with cloverleaf antennas.
[13:29] <fsphil> I suspect the limit here is 10mw
[13:29] <fsphil> or is it 50mw?
[13:29] <fsphil> I can never remember
[13:30] <fsphil> not familiar with those, shall google a bit over lunch
[13:30] <fsphil> I've used 2.4ghz video modules with a nice big dish, got excellent video to 200m
[13:30] <fsphil> wasn't able to test further
[13:35] <gonzo_> the shuttle external tank cam was only a few watts at 2.2ghz. And they do Ok with that
[13:36] <gonzo_> OK, they have bigger dishes, but know of an amateur in .de received tank pictures with a domestic dish
[13:38] <fsphil> sweet
[13:38] <fsphil> I only just managed to get voice comms from the shuttles
[13:39] <gonzo_> there is a team who manages to get the digital feed from the mission support satellite (TRDSS?) and reverse engineer the protocol to extract the digital audio from the ISS
[13:40] <gonzo_> then the buggers actually managed to write a video decoder for it
[13:40] <gonzo_> such a shame the shuttle has gone now
[13:40] <fsphil> yea
[13:41] <daveake> I'm glad I got to see a launch before they stopped
[13:42] <fsphil> I wish they'd do launches closer to home
[13:44] <hibby> take that one to the EU
[13:45] <fsphil> haha, "As of 2011, the United Kingdom is the only country to have successfully developed and then abandoned a satellite launch capability"
[13:45] <fsphil> that's criminal
[13:45] <hibby> one of our sounding rocket meetings that involved some ESA advice we were told that rocket launches were illegal in EU airspace above a certain height
[13:45] <hibby> fsphil: did we not research taht stuff in the 60s/70s and abandon it as there was "no commercial application"? I remember a telly slot about it.
[13:46] <eroomde> hibby: that's exactly the case
[13:46] <eroomde> infact a few weeks ago Propero (the uk's first and only sat launched by a uk launcher) celebrated its 40th
[13:46] <fsphil> so not even sub-orbital launches allowed here?
[13:47] <hibby> ech(($standard_governmental_grumble);
[13:47] <hibby> dammit
[13:47] <eroomde> oh i wouldn't worry about what esa say about what's legal and not
[13:47] <hibby> s/ech(/echo
[13:47] <eroomde> they don't really know anything
[13:47] <hibby> eroomde: I've come to learn this
[13:47] <fsphil> that's not very reassuring :)
[13:48] <gonzo_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WrhHRchjAc
[13:49] <fsphil> impressive
[13:50] <fsphil> I've a similar mesh dish as they used
[13:51] <gonzo_> I was going to have a go, but at the time, the flight plan was, they turned the tx off before it got to europe
[13:51] <gonzo_> not sure how nils got his rx
[13:51] <gonzo_> I have a 3mtr mesh dish parked in my garden, that would have got great video
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[14:00] <fsphil> 3m, that's impressive
[14:02] <gonzo_> working up to doing eme work. But to many other projects getting in the way
[14:02] <gonzo_> so slow progress
[14:02] <fsphil> aye
[14:03] <fsphil> steerable?
[14:03] <fsphil> well I guess for eme it has to be
[14:04] <fsphil> I wonder if that size of dish would see a 10mw video signal on 2.4ghz at about 500km range
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[14:07] <SpeedEvil> I note the 6.8GHz transmitter link above
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[14:07] <nick_> Does anyone use mbed?
[14:09] <nick_> I just went to an ARM recruitment thing and heard about it for the first time.
[14:10] <SpeedEvil> It rings faint bells, but that may just be tinitus.
[14:10] <BrainDamage> mbed is a bit on the expensive side
[14:10] <nick_> It's a microcontroller based on cortex-m3 or m0
[14:11] <BrainDamage> http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/mbed-nxp-lpc1768-prototyping-board-p-933.html?cPath=132_137
[14:11] <nick_> £40?
[14:11] <BrainDamage> esp considering the price of an stm32discovery
[14:12] <nick_> Or £30 (depending on version)
[14:12] <nick_> So similar price to an arduino mega
[14:13] <BrainDamage> stm32f4discovery costs 16$
[14:13] <BrainDamage> and is cortexm4
[14:13] <BrainDamage> 400 MIPS
[14:13] <SpeedEvil> ~6.28 too
[14:14] <gonzo_> fsphil: yep steerable, though still needs work
[14:14] <gonzo_> 2.4ghs we can use 100mw
[14:15] <gonzo_> I recon it would see the signal, though not sure it would be enough to resolve a wide video signal
[14:16] <gonzo_> if I get to do a launch, I would have a video feed on there, just to test the idea
[14:16] <SpeedEvil> What's the range omni-omni
[14:17] <SpeedEvil> ?
[14:18] <SpeedEvil> A 3m dish is 24 wavelengths or so, so the beam will be on the order of 1/400th of a steradian, or 1/4000th of a sphere. Range is of the order of sqrt(4000) = 60 times omni-omni
[14:21] <gonzo_> I use a simple rule of thumb:
[14:21] <gonzo_> bw = 70/fd
[14:21] <griffonbot> Received email: Dan Bowen "Re: [UKHAS] Fwd: Elektor Weekly Special | Join The Icarus Challenge"
[14:21] <gonzo_> beamwidth in deg, f in ghz, diam in feet
[14:22] <gonzo_> doesn't give the gain, but that's usually a 2ndry concern
[14:22] <SpeedEvil> I find radians easier
[14:23] <SpeedEvil> Handy to recall that the sun is bang on a hundredth of a radian
[14:24] <gonzo_> I assume that the dish/gain will be as high as you can practically manage, so beamwidth is key for the mechanics and to see what % of moon illumination I'm getting
[14:24] <SpeedEvil> All of it.
[14:24] <SpeedEvil> Well - the visible bit.
[14:25] <gonzo_> the moon is about half a deg, so you tend to chuck a lot of rf into space
[14:25] <gonzo_> if you can get a beam of half a deg, that's optimal
[14:26] <gonzo_> but big, well at the low frequencies i'm working at
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[14:46] Nick change: stilldavid_ -> stilldavid
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[14:54] <fsphil> I hope Dan doesn't read the bit about earth orbit on that website :)
[14:55] <NigeyS> lol
[14:55] <NigeyS> i jus got the email now, woopsie
[14:55] <WillDuckworth> which website?
[14:55] <NigeyS> http://www.element14.com/community/groups/project-icarus?view=overview
[14:56] <WillDuckworth> aaaah
[14:56] <WillDuckworth> i'm with ya
[15:09] <SamSilver> someone on here is keen on base jumping, can't remember who
[15:10] <cuddykid> recursion in arm assembler - driving me mad lol
[15:12] <cuddykid> haven't seen rjharrison in yonks
[15:16] <cuddykid> talking of 2 way comms - I wonder how well my easy radios will do :P - ground station is now almost fully built!
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[15:17] <number10_> SpeedEvil: that may have been costyn
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[15:19] <number10_> sorry I meant SamSilver: I think maybe was costyn interested in base jumping
[15:19] Nick change: number10_ -> number10
[15:19] <SamSilver> thanx number10
[15:20] <SamSilver> just watch a great vimeo vid of base jumping in china - off topic
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[15:46] <Laurenceb> http://www.indiegogo.com/Rock-ESC
[15:46] <Laurenceb> lulwut
[15:49] <Randomskk> openbldc anyone
[15:49] <Randomskk> though stilll fair enough as a project
[15:50] <costyn> did someone mention my name?
[15:51] <costyn> SamSilver: I used skydive, but never base jumped
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[15:52] <costyn> SamSilver: was it Jeb Corliss flying through that hole?
[15:52] <SamSilver> http://player.vimeo.com/video/31481531?autoplay=1 insane and stunning costyn
[15:52] <SamSilver> yes at the end someone did fly through a hole
[15:52] <SamSilver> shhhhhhhuuuu
[15:53] <costyn> SamSilver: he actually hit an outcropping on table mountain last week I think
[15:53] <costyn> SamSilver: you must've heard it on the news
[15:53] <SamSilver> last year
[15:54] <costyn> SamSilver: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-501710_162-57360099/jumper-breaks-legs-in-table-mountain-stunt-jump?tag=contentMain;contentBody
[15:54] <SamSilver> thanx will have a look see I see him on wiki
[15:55] <costyn> SamSilver: same guy at any rate; he's one of the best proximity wingsuitflyers around; so you see that even the best mess up and get hurt
[15:56] <SamSilver> table mountain claimed a flyer last year andrew????
[16:00] <costyn> SamSilver: could be, but just last week Jeb Corliss hit Table Mountain too. he "only" broke both his legs, pretty lucky considering he was in full flight
[16:00] <SamSilver> am watching video of Jeb crashing
[16:01] <SamSilver> http://hypervocal.com/vids/2012/jeb-corliss-base-jumper-cheat-death-table-mountain-crash/
[16:01] <costyn> can't see much
[16:01] Action: SpeedEvil points and laughs.
[16:01] <daveake> The one I saw was from a distance. I didn't try to find a closer one.
[16:01] <costyn> daveake: not sure there is one, this is the only one I've seen
[16:02] <daveake> I wouldn't want to watch anyway!
[16:02] <costyn> daveake: true
[16:03] <costyn> SamSilver: the guy who wrote the text on that site is a moron though: " who regularly dives 3,500 feet without using a parachute." uh... no parachute? no
[16:03] <Laurenceb> heh jeb corliss
[16:03] <daveake> Obviously it was a risk he took, and was happy taking. Could have been a lot worse.
[16:03] <costyn> daveake: yea
[16:04] <costyn> daveake: he's often said so, he'd rather take the risks and get hurt than not do the jumps
[16:04] <daveake> I saw a quote from him in hospital - something like "I've never felt better" :/
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[16:05] <daveake> I think he's mad than mad Jack McMad, but I guess we need all sorts in life :)
[16:05] <daveake> madder
[16:06] <costyn> yup
[16:07] <daveake> Any hints for making a 'chute ring? What do people make them from?
[16:08] <UpuWork> inside of a gaffer tape roll
[16:09] <daveake> Oh, that small? I was assuming much larger (for no reason)
[16:09] <UpuWork> hang on
[16:09] <daveake> And does that go right at the bottom of the chute lines?
[16:10] <daveake> [hanging] :)
[16:10] <Upu> http://imagebin.org/195271
[16:10] <Upu> http://imagebin.org/195272
[16:10] <Upu> top of an old plastic bucket I believe
[16:11] <daveake> That's more the size I was assuming
[16:11] <Upu> I've not seen anyone use one
[16:11] <daveake> That was my next question :)
[16:11] <daveake> Suppose it should have been the first ...
[16:12] <SamSilver> Geoffrey Robson
[16:12] <daveake> Of my 4 flights, the 3 I got back all got tangled with the balloon line, and I think it's about time I stopped that tradition
[16:21] <SamSilver> daveake: image search > embrodery hoop
[16:22] <daveake> via a spell check? ;)
[16:22] <SamSilver> pm for you
[16:22] <costyn> wait.. what's the ring for?
[16:22] <costyn> SamSilver: yea that was the guy that hit last year
[16:23] <SamSilver> watching a vid of him
[16:23] <SamSilver> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yV88pEouZzo
[16:24] <costyn> daveake: in skydiving we use mesh instead of lines : impossible to tangle : http://aeroconsystems.com/cart/images/products/par60p.jpg
[16:24] <costyn> (for the pilot chute)
[16:25] <SpeedEvil> Interesting.
[16:25] <costyn> well not impossible, but you don't have lines where stuff can go through
[16:26] <costyn> here's a better pic: http://www.asylumbase.com/media/images/productimage-picture-asylum-vented-pilot-chute-23.jpg
[16:26] <oh7lzb> old pilot chutes would probably be good
[16:27] <daveake> Interesting idea
[16:27] <costyn> i have one lying around, but the ones made for skydiving are overengineered and probably too heavy
[16:27] <costyn> but probably still lighter than a plastic ring
[16:29] <daveake> cloud1 ... http://imgur.com/wuSwd
[16:30] <daveake> That was over 700g of latex from the original 1000g, with around 130 turns around the chute lines
[16:30] <daveake> Needless to say the impact speed was greater than intended
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[16:34] <costyn> heh
[16:34] <fsphil> at least it wasn't a whale
[16:35] <daveake> What's that round thing coming towards me?
[16:36] <costyn> i wonder if it'll be friends with me
[16:41] <gonzo_> oh no, not again
[16:53] <fsphil> the world needs more douglas adams
[16:53] <gonzo_> bit late now
[16:55] <costyn> unfortunately yes
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[17:20] <griffonbot> Received email: navrac "[UKHAS] Re: Fwd: Elektor Weekly Special | Join The Icarus Challenge"
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[17:38] <joph> griffonbot, elektor :D
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[18:13] <daveake> So .... my flight computer now sends me text messages to tell me where the payload is. The logic is that if the altitude is below 2km then it sends the RTTY string to me, every 30 mins if it's not moving much, or every 30 seconds if it detects it's ascending or descending. My Android phone has a program for use when driving that reads out incoming texts, and here it is ... http://dl.dropbox.com/u/368443/BalloonSMS.mp3 :-)
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[18:19] <NigeyS> oo jus the man, ello Laurenceb_
[18:32] <Laurenceb_> hi
[18:46] <x-f> it should be fairly easy to write a script on android, that forwards received string to server
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[18:46] <jcoxon> evening
[18:47] <number10> evening
[18:50] <x-f> evening
[18:52] <SpeedEvil> EVENING
[18:52] <daveake> *EVENING*
[18:54] <daveake> x-f (just been for a drive to test it). Yeah. I was thinking of using an online SMS service and connect to that from a script.
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[19:09] <cuddykid> woohoo - soldered up the dust sensor - tiny tiny connectors
[19:11] <SpeedEvil> Yay - I now have _lots_ of plastic.
[19:11] <SpeedEvil> Though slight fail.
[19:11] <SpeedEvil> Getting 2.1*2.5m sheet through a standard door may be tricky.
[19:11] <SpeedEvil> - as it has to go round a bend.
[19:12] <Laurenceb_> http://www.st.com/internet/evalboard/product/252510.jsp
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[19:13] <cuddykid> moment of truth..
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[19:16] <cuddykid> hmf - no worky
[19:18] <SpeedEvil> Isn't polyamide what flex-pcbs are made from?
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[19:22] <Laurenceb_> yes
[19:22] <Laurenceb_> http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-Flexible-Printed-Circuits/step2/Use-a-solid-ink-printer/
[19:22] <SpeedEvil> umm
[19:22] <SpeedEvil> Why not just get those then?
[19:22] <Laurenceb_> apparently ebay or samples
[19:22] <Laurenceb_> i need a custom flexi pcb
[19:23] <SpeedEvil> http://www.megauk.com/pcb_laminates.php
[19:23] <SpeedEvil> If you're up to photoexposing (and it's single layer
[19:24] <Laurenceb_> Flexible Polyester Laminate
[19:24] <Laurenceb_> ^that?
[19:24] <Laurenceb_> nice, thanks for the link
[19:24] <jakr> i would like to know about some information involving the legal practices of launching high objects
[19:24] <Laurenceb_> cheapest i could find was ~£600 MOQ for flexi boards
[19:25] <jakr> inn your experience is it against the law to launch something without allerting the nearest airport?
[19:25] <jcoxon> jakr, where?
[19:25] <jakr> tell me all your stories
[19:26] <jakr> if you have experienced problems launching things
[19:26] <jcoxon> each country has different laws
[19:26] <jcoxon> but in general launching near an airport is not a good move if they can't coordinate it
[19:26] <jakr> well i want to know about different countries but I am from USA
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[19:27] <jcoxon> In the UK you need permission from the CAA
[19:27] <jcoxon> which can be for a launch window
[19:27] <jcoxon> and requries 24hr notice to the nearest air traffic control usually
[19:27] <jcoxon> in Australia you get a single permission for a launch site
[19:27] <jcoxon> and then can use that for 2 years
[19:28] <jcoxon> In general most countries you need to get some form of permission from the local air authoritiy
[19:28] <jakr> thanks
[19:28] <jakr> can I build a small rocket witthout a lot of expertese or money?
[19:29] <jcoxon> depends what you mean by small
[19:29] <jakr> ~1 foot long
[19:29] <jcoxon> yeah relatively
[19:29] <jcoxon> lots of amateur rocketry kits etc
[19:29] <jakr> how can i find instructions
[19:29] <jcoxon> for something that size
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[19:30] <jcoxon> http://www.flyrockets.com/index.asp
[19:32] <jakr> i might just have a new hobby :)
[19:32] <jcoxon> balloons are a big thing on this chat channel
[19:32] <cuddykid> erghh - this dust sensor is annoying
[19:32] <jakr> what is the fun in that?
[19:32] <costyn> jakr: 100,000+ ft
[19:32] <jcoxon> they go higher
[19:33] <jakr> baloon with video camera/??
[19:33] <costyn> jakr: usually photo's
[19:33] <jakr> thats cool, expensive
[19:33] <jakr> probably
[19:35] <jakr> does this channel talk about actually being a passenger of a hot air baloon? or holding on the a glider as it flies
[19:36] Nick change: daveake_ -> daveake
[19:36] <costyn> jakr: no, they're only "small" balloons, carrying less than 5pounds of payload
[19:36] <jakr> $20,000 (Sport Sized)
[19:36] <jakr> $45,000 to $60,000+ (Commercial) !!!
[19:37] <costyn> jakr: filled with helium but you do get cool pics at that altitude. you can nearly see the curvature of the earth and the sky is black
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[19:38] <costyn> jakr: search for 'high altitude balloon' on images.google.com to get an idae what I'm talking about
[19:38] Action: costyn 's gotta
[19:38] <costyn> go
[19:38] <costyn> ttyl
[19:38] <jakr> costyn, why don't spaceships try a similar thing, just float to space
[19:38] <BrainDamage> because you need a ridicolously low density
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[19:39] <BrainDamage> which for large amounts of mass equals to large surfaces
[19:39] <BrainDamage> which leads to structural problems
[19:39] <jakr> BrainDamage, oh
[19:40] <costyn> jakr: basically because you get lift from the difference in gas density between helium and air. and there's no air in space so nothing for the helium to float on
[19:40] <BrainDamage> I think he means floating until space/atmosphere boundary
[19:40] <costyn> jakr: eh... not density sorry weight
[19:40] <BrainDamage> and use regular mass propelling engines from there onwards
[19:41] <costyn> ah ok
[19:41] Action: costyn afk (really now)
[19:41] <BrainDamage> there's some experiments with small rockets launched from balloon platforms in near space
[19:41] <BrainDamage> no idea about their successes
[19:42] <jakr> costyn, if you had a gas that weighed less than helium, say a gas of massless particles, could you float higher?
[19:42] Action: cuddykid thinking about JP aerospace
[19:43] <costyn> jakr: well theres' only hydrogen which is lighter, but it won't go much higher
[19:43] <cuddykid> oh jeez, there's a FET in the dust sensor, no wonder it doesn't work with me playing around with it!
[19:43] <BrainDamage> most of balloons simply rapture when the pressure differential grows too high
[19:44] <jakr> costyn, cant you get more lift from the greater difference in gas density if you had a massless gas?
[19:44] <BrainDamage> yes, but there's the balloon material itself weighting too
[19:45] <BrainDamage> even if the internal would be vacuum
[19:45] <jakr> BrainDamage, what is the composition of a balloon?
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[19:46] <BrainDamage> not sure myself I'd espect mostly rubber, other channel users here would be better suited to answer that
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[19:48] <BrainDamage> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echo_satellite this was a fun idea
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[19:57] <x-f> http://www.gi.alaska.edu/AuroraForecast/3 - "extreme"!
[19:57] <fsphil> extreme cloud more like
[19:58] <x-f> that too, yes :/
[19:58] <LazyLeopard> sixteen eights cloud here...
[19:59] <LazyLeopard> ...with added sodium glow.
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[20:06] <fsphil> green light pollution here... it's a kind of aurora :)
[20:07] Action: SpeedEvil imagines streetlights in the form of shamrocks.
[20:08] <fsphil> lol
[20:08] <fsphil> the emerald isle is actually fake, we used florescent paint
[20:10] <LazyLeopard> Nodnol produces rather a lot of yellow stuff. As it's only slightly west of North here, my chances of seeing an aurora are pretty slim even on a clear night.
[20:10] <fsphil> The green I'm seeing I think is from the hockey pitch in a school
[20:11] <fsphil> they've very powerful lighting
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[20:11] <LazyLeopard> Yeah, there are a couple of floodlit pitches not that far from here. At the moment, though, they're off.
[20:12] <LazyLeopard> When the nearer one is on I can read my astro-notebook in my back garden without a torch...
[20:28] <cuddykid> why is flickr so slow?!?
[20:31] <fsphil> epilepsy?
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[20:54] <eroomde> i'm going to a rocket launch in a very remote part of scotland in may
[20:54] <eroomde> apparently it's a really good dark sky sight, by uk standards anyway
[20:54] <eroomde> i'm quite looking forward to it, and hoping the weather is un-scottish
[20:55] <tom25> evening! i've just been reading the http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2 tutorial, and i was wonderin about how the gps fits in - i'm planning to solder it together on a stripboard, but on the wiki there's no mention of how to connect a gps module, or which module is the best to use?
[20:56] <eroomde> is the hope to see the aurora?
[20:57] <eroomde> tom25: greetings
[20:57] <eroomde> 99.9% of gps units connect via UART - or serial as it's more usually know
[20:58] <eroomde> so if you're using the arduino you need to connect the GPS's Tx to the arduino's Rx, and vice versa
[20:58] <eroomde> as for which module to use, you want to make sure (as you may know already) that your module will work above 18km altitude, which a lot don't
[20:59] <eroomde> but we have found most of the ones that do work, and highly recommend anything based on a uBlox chipset, such as the FSA03
[20:59] <eroomde> you will have to communicate with it in your software to put it into 'airborne' mode, so that it works at higher altitudes
[21:00] <eroomde> alternatively, gps modules such as the Lassen iQ will work straight away with no intervention from you at high altitudes, but they are older technology and considerably less sensitive than the more modern uBlox chipsets
[21:04] <tom25> ok, thanks for your response! how would i go about connecting the Tx to the Rx, bearing in mind i'll be using a stripboard? and please can you expand on how i would put the gps into airbourne mode? thanks a lot :)
[21:04] <eroomde> no problem
[21:04] <eroomde> so:
[21:04] <eroomde> the physical connection
[21:05] <eroomde> that you're using stripboard is no problem, the circuit is still the same
[21:08] <eroomde> so, i'm not sure if the arduin has pull-up resistors already on the Tx and Rx pins. I suspect it does. so you just need to connect the pins together on the gps and the arduino - just make sure there is a copper connection on your stripboard
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[21:09] <eroomde> as for the airborne mode, that's a software thing
[21:09] <eroomde> so, you'll want to have a copy of the GPS's pdf datasheet which describes how to talk to it - ublox call this command language 'UBX'
[21:10] <daveake> jcoxon has an excellent guide re the UBX commands - http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:falcom_fsa03
[21:10] <eroomde> if you look on the ublox website at the chip you want to use, you should find a link to the UBX specification which will tell you what commands the arduino needs to send to the gps over the serial port
[21:10] <eroomde> ah brill
[21:10] <eroomde> yes use daveake's link ^
[21:10] <daveake> Worked for me :)
[21:11] <daveake> My code is different but I copied the UBX commands
[21:11] <eroomde> tom25: where are you based, if you son't mind me asking?
[21:11] <eroomde> daveake: what's the latest of the pred?
[21:12] <daveake> Re arduino Tx --> GPS Rx, most Arduinos are 5V and I don't know if the GS Rx will be 5V-tolerant. I've mentioned before that I use the Arduino Mini Pro 3V3 so I don't have to mess around with resistors to get the 5V level down to 3V3.
[21:12] <tom25> thanks for the info, digesting it now :) and i'm based in south west uk
[21:12] <daveake> eroomde: completely unchanged :/
[21:13] <tom25> oh ok, i'm using an uno so how do i go about connecting the resistors - sorry about all the questions, i'm trying to be as clear as possible before starting!
[21:14] <eroomde> tom25: it's good to be sure! nothing worse than blowing a £40 gps with a careless mis-wiring
[21:14] <eroomde> where abouts in south-west?
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[21:15] <daveake> tom25 resistors like on this page - http://www.arduino.cc/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1206874649
[21:16] <daveake> From GPS --> Arduino just wire it direct, as the 5V Arduino will work just fine with incoming 3V3 logic levels
[21:16] <eroomde> hold up a sec
[21:17] <eroomde> daveake: http://arduino.cc/en/uploads/Main/Arduino_Uno_Rev3-schematic.pdf
[21:17] <eroomde> tom25: apologies for the publoc confering that's about to happen
[21:17] <eroomde> daveake: this is the uno schematic
[21:17] <eroomde> and it's not like the last arduinso i looked at a few years ago (dueminiliwilleviawevia)
[21:17] <daveake> OK .... what part do you want me to look at?
[21:17] <daveake> (I've never used an Uno)
[21:18] <eroomde> bottom right hand corner of the mega
[21:18] <tom25> I'm in Bath :)
[21:18] <daveake> First flight I used a Duemo....whatever it is.
[21:18] <eroomde> Tx and Rx
[21:18] <eroomde> it looks like there are just current limiters
[21:18] <eroomde> and no pullups
[21:18] <eroomde> and also there doesn't seem to be an ftdi chip anymore, just a direct usb connection
[21:18] <Matt_soton> it has internal pullups though?
[21:19] <eroomde> oh there are two atmegas
[21:19] <Matt_soton> (configurable rather then always connected)
[21:19] <eroomde> i seeee
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[21:19] <eroomde> ok. so hopefully the atmega 16 that looks like it's the usb and bootloader/flasher chip, has the internal pullups hardcoded for the entire bus
[21:20] <eroomde> as that's presumably not user flashable
[21:20] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[21:20] <eroomde> but it has an isp anyway
[21:20] <eroomde> gosh, they've been messing around here :)
[21:20] <daveake> tom25 I'm near Newbury in Berks. Not so far away
[21:20] <eroomde> tom25: and i'm in ox
[21:21] <eroomde> so also not too far, tho further
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> hello tom25
[21:23] <eroomde> tom25: i think with the Uno that you simple need to ensure there is some copper connecting the GPS's Tx to the Arduino's Rx, and the GPS's Rx to the arduino's Tx
[21:23] <eroomde> no resistors or nuffing
[21:24] <tom25> oh wow, excellent :) so just some wire and i'm good to go :. last question. the example code give here http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:falcom_fsa03 can i use that to test a radiometrix ntx2 plus gps setup?
[21:25] <eroomde> tom25: you'd have to modify it a bit
[21:26] <eroomde> you can see that at the moment all it does is set up the gps to be in airboen mode
[21:26] <eroomde> void setup()
[21:26] <daveake> You need http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2 too for the NTX2 side
[21:27] <eroomde> and then some other functions to talk to the gps and listen to it
[21:27] <eroomde> as tyou can see, there is no 'main' loop in there, so it's no an actual program
[21:27] <eroomde> more of a library
[21:28] <daveake> So it's GPS --> variables, then format a string which you send out the NTX2 a bit at a time
[21:28] <eroomde> but between that file and the link daveake just posted, you should be in good shape to write a flight software program
[21:28] <daveake> The NTX2 code I linked to does it using delays. A better way (IMO) is to use a timer interrupt.
[21:29] <daveake> But both will work.
[21:30] <eroomde> LazyLeopard: re: northern lights convo earlier, i actually went up to norway just over a year ago as i really wanted to see them up close. they were spectacular
[21:30] <eroomde> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/58776840/Photo%2023-11-2010%2008%2040%2019.jpg
[21:30] <eroomde> that was with my phone ^
[21:30] <eroomde> it was really active and quite breathtaking
[21:31] <daveake> That's in my bucket list
[21:32] <jcoxon> eroomde, :-)
[21:32] <jcoxon> thats better then when i was in tromso
[21:32] <jcoxon> though i did see them
[21:32] <jcoxon> not as green
[21:32] <eroomde> the camera seemed to respond well to green
[21:33] <eroomde> the paler fringes at the bottom were in real life quite red and orange
[21:35] <tom25> cheers, i think the coding is going to be my biggest obstacle in the project, is there anywhere i can get an exampler / tutorial / help writing it? i know that's a bit of a longshot haha
[21:35] <eroomde> the arduino website and forums are good
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[21:35] <eroomde> but yes, the whole project of learnign c code and how microcontrollers work can be a bit of a learnign curve initially
[21:35] <eroomde> but it'll be worth it :)
[21:36] <eroomde> it *shouldn't* be too easy to send up something to the edge of space - and it makes it all the more satisfying when you conquer the challenge :)
[21:36] <eroomde> also, you'll get lots of help right here
[21:36] <LazyLeopard> eroomde: There's a group from my local astrnomical society heading for Iceland to get a good look next month. Rather too expensive a trip for me, and besides... Iceland... in February??? ;)
[21:37] <eroomde> yeah i went in november 2010
[21:37] <eroomde> it was -24 when we went inland away from the sea
[21:37] <eroomde> it was cloudier out by the sea
[21:37] <eroomde> i was in Tromso, as was jcoxon a year or two before me
[21:38] <eroomde> a really beautiful place to visit though
[21:38] <eroomde> you do feel like humans are tresspassing on this giant's landscape a bit
[21:38] <eroomde> but norway isn't the best place when on a budget either
[21:38] <eroomde> hey I'd have thought iceland would be pretty cheap right now :)
[21:39] <LazyLeopard> Yeah. Last time I visited Stavanger the beer was over 4 quid a half-litre...
[21:39] <LazyLeopard> ...and that was nearly 20 years ago.
[21:40] <LazyLeopard> Hate to think what a beer costs there now.
[21:40] <eroomde> about £8+
[21:40] <eroomde> i had a £7 at the tromso's brewery
[21:41] <tom25> yeah you're right, i should learn myself really
[21:41] <eroomde> took advantage of that
[21:41] <eroomde> but their pub closed at 7pm
[21:41] <eroomde> they have an annoying relationship with alcohol
[21:41] <tom25> just out of my comfort zone is all
[21:41] <tom25> :)
[21:41] <eroomde> they treat it like we treat cigarettes - loads of tax, loads of limitations on selling, opening hours, ages
[21:41] <eroomde> tom25: indeed - all the best projects are
[21:42] <eroomde> but we'll ensure you get your payload launched, don;t worry
[21:42] <eroomde> it'll be fun
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander> cigarettes are bad
[21:42] <eroomde> that's true
[21:42] <eroomde> unlike alcohol
[21:43] <eroomde> in moderation
[21:43] <LazyLeopard> Indeed. I took a bottle of scotch from dury-free for my hosts. Cost about a fifth of the price it'd have been in the liquor stores there.
[21:43] <tom25> you're right, it's something i've always wanted to do - i'm 16 and i'm pushing myself to do this to prove it to myself that i can finish a project.. i've got the resistors off a friend, so i'm ordering the ntx2 today - i'll start prototyping the tracker when it arrives.
[21:43] <tom25> (i already have the arduino uno,)
[21:44] <eroomde> ah wow
[21:44] <eroomde> right cool
[21:44] <eroomde> it's a big thing to be attempting to do by yourself at 16
[21:44] <eroomde> awesome stuff
[21:45] <tom25> thanks, that explains why i'm asking so many nooby questions
[21:45] <tom25> ;)
[21:45] <eroomde> LazyLeopard: i was staying with (well, dating) a swede, which was the pretence for me spending a few weeks up in scandinavia
[21:45] <eroomde> my thankyou to her flatmates was that i caught some salmon in a fjord in norway a few hours before i flew back to stockholm, and did 'english' fish and chips with beer batter for them for dinner
[21:46] <eroomde> i must say, besh fish i've ever tasted
[21:46] <eroomde> i took this video as we went out
[21:46] <eroomde> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTwDe7Srhws
[21:47] <eroomde> i'd met him in the pub in tromso the night before and he offered to take me fishing the next day. was really fun
[21:47] <tom25> looks beautiful, and freezing.
[21:47] <eroomde> it was chilly
[21:47] <eroomde> but equally, the warmest place to be in norway
[21:48] <eroomde> the water is liquid so necessarily >0 celcius
[21:48] <eroomde> if you go 10 miles inland, it's a whole nuther story
[21:49] <daveake> I bet. I've only been in or near Oslo, but that was cold enough. -18 at the airport.
[21:49] <tom25> i can imagine, wow. i'd say it's worth it though
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[21:51] <eroomde> i'd recommend the trip up to tromso, or somewhere else well into the arctic circle
[21:51] <eroomde> although i have a bit of a fascination with the place
[21:52] <eroomde> far more interesting in poles than the equator :)
[21:52] <eroomde> there are some places in siberia that I really want to get to
[21:52] <eroomde> but lots of the interesting places, like norilsk, which are closed to foreigners
[21:53] <eroomde> it's all nickel mines are soviet dystopia
[21:53] <eroomde> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norilsk
[21:53] <eroomde> just look at feburary
[21:53] <eroomde> avergae high: -32
[21:53] <fsphil> tip: always double check your uart directions
[21:54] <daveake> Good for testing payloads :D
[21:54] <eroomde> he's gone
[21:54] <eroomde> yes indeed :)
[21:54] <BrainDamage> fsphil: I had a friend curse for days until he discovered when he switched the PIC's USART from async to sync TX and RX swapped
[21:55] <daveake> Went for a drive up and down some hills earlier to check my SMS sending code (defaults to 1 per 30 mins unless it sees the altitude has changed by at least 50 metres since the last SMS). Worked as planned :)
[21:55] <fsphil> BrainDamage, that's a bit of a silly design?
[21:55] <daveake> blimey
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> yay daveake
[21:55] <fsphil> in this case it was hooman error
[21:56] <BrainDamage> totally, and the datasheet while it mentioned it, it wasn't exactly in a well visible place
[21:56] <eroomde> that's the problem with datasheets for microcontrollers
[21:56] <fsphil> I've some pic16f628's if anyone wants them ... I don't have hte programmer any more
[21:56] <eroomde> they need a font size proportional to importance
[21:56] <daveake> I have some USB-RS232 converted which came with a sheet to explain that "Rx" meant "Connect to Rx on your device" :p
[21:57] <daveake> *converters
[21:57] <eroomde> they are often just like: blah blah, register, blah, nother register, blah, ripple current, blah, the world will explode unless you set this bit, blah, bit carry flag, blah
[21:57] <fsphil> aah, the cross the streams bit
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> xD eroomde
[21:58] <eroomde> the thing that got me with the stm32 parts, again mentioned only briefly in passing, is that unlike avr's you have to manually reset the interrupt flag in the interrupt handler
[21:58] <eroomde> that caused me some woe
[21:59] <eroomde> cos my mental model of microcontroller programming totally didn;t consider that one might have to do that
[21:59] <daveake> I used to have a cartoon on my office wall - engineer reading manual which says something like "failure to sync with pulse X will render system inoperable", and he's standing next to a computer cabinet that's been reduced to pile of smouldering boards
[22:00] <eroomde> that's always the way
[22:00] <eroomde> operation manual's are just the manufacturer's opinion
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[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> I got a question
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> when I got the GPS, it normally outputs NMEA sentences, right?
[22:30] <eroomde> uhuh
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> when I want to have latitude, longitude and altitude in the telemetry string, can I somehow "select" those values from the NMEA sentence to incoporate them into the string to be sent via the NTX2?
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> I assume that there should be something like this
[22:32] <fsphil> tinygps is a library that should handle all of that for you
[22:32] <fsphil> although it's a good exercise to do it yourself :)
[22:33] <eroomde> string manipulation in c is a fun exercise for the reader
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> because if I get this done (and the GPS to get a lock) I think I am done
[22:33] <BrainDamage> you have a sick concept of fun
[22:33] <BrainDamage> esp if said string is utf-8 :p
[22:34] <fsphil> aurora in norway: http://polaris.nipr.ac.jp/~acaurora/aurora/Tromso/latest.jpg
[22:35] <fsphil> despite the .jp url
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> thing is
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> I think I read about the tinyGPS lib
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> it's on arduinia or so, right?
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> along with newsoftserial
[22:36] <Darkside> tinyGPS is not entirely reliant on Arduino
[22:36] <Darkside> it is reliant on C++ however
[22:37] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:37] <Darkside> and don't use newsoftserial if you can help it
[22:37] <Darkside> its a really bad idea
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> I meant the website was called arduinia or so
[22:38] <Darkside> oh
[22:38] <Darkside> i dunno about that
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> why is newsoft bad?
[22:38] <Darkside> because you're trying to do something in software that should be done in hardware
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> what exactly if I may ask?
[22:39] <Darkside> reading asynchronous bits from a pin!
[22:39] <Darkside> its what a UART is for
[22:40] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:40] <Lunar_Lander> like the FT232
[22:40] <Darkside> kind of...
[22:40] <Darkside> i'm talking about on the AVR itself
[22:40] <Darkside> or whatever micro you plan on using
[22:40] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:40] <Lunar_Lander> yea, for the first ascent I got an arduino
[22:40] <Lunar_Lander> I got an Uno and a Mega 2560
[22:40] <Darkside> don't use newsoftserial for reading data from your GPS
[22:40] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[22:41] <Darkside> if you are going to have multiple serial devices, then use the mega
[22:41] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:41] <Darkside> as it has 4(?) UARTs
[22:41] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:41] <Lunar_Lander> TX and RX 0 to 3 it says
[22:41] <Lunar_Lander> the uno has one
[22:41] <Darkside> what serial devices will you be using?
[22:41] <Lunar_Lander> but one question, I got the Venus GPS
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[22:41] <Darkside> Lunar_Lander: thats not going to work >18km
[22:41] <Lunar_Lander> even with the new firmware?
[22:41] <fsphil> never venus chips are suppose to
[22:41] <Darkside> oh, maybe then
[22:42] <fsphil> newer*
[22:42] <fsphil> not been tested though iirc
[22:42] <Lunar_Lander> I was told to install the new FW and did that
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[22:42] <Lunar_Lander> but from nosebleeds board I also have a GPSbee
[22:42] <Darkside> i have no idea what a gpsbee is
[22:42] <Lunar_Lander> and one of those breakout adapters for it
[22:42] <Lunar_Lander> it has a ublox GPS on it
[22:42] <Darkside> ok
[22:42] <Darkside> thats good
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[22:43] <Lunar_Lander> and for other devices
[22:43] <Darkside> well, Arduino 1.0 has a nice new feature - if you define a function called serialEvent, it'll be run whenever a byte is receiver on a uart
[22:43] <Lunar_Lander> I got a BMP085 pressure sensor, DS18B20 temperature sensor, HIH-4030 humidity sensor and one of these OpenLogs
[22:43] <Lunar_Lander> OK
[22:43] <Darkside> so you could write a serialEvent function which puts the data into tinyGPS
[22:44] <Darkside> ok, with the BMP085 i think you might want to write something that pulls out the calibration values first
[22:44] <Darkside> then during flight, sents the *raw* data down
[22:44] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:44] <Darkside> then we can do some fun stuff with habitat to convert the raw data to an actual pressure value
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[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> a friend put together code from several examples which then transmits pressure, temperature and humidity over the NTX2
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> we did that just for testing
[22:45] <Darkside> ok
[22:45] <Darkside> thats good
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> and in that code we had all the calibration values coded in
[22:45] <Darkside> ok i need to head into uni
[22:45] <Darkside> back on later
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> at least how that was given in the example
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> cu
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> thanks!
[22:46] <fsphil> I need to start using the bmp085's
[22:46] Nick change: SAIDias -> W0OTM
[22:46] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:46] <fsphil> got a breakout board with one last week
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> my question is that I saw on mattltm's code that he got the GPS on arduino pin 2, but the serial pins are 0 and 1
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[22:47] <fsphil> it may have more than one uart
[22:48] <fsphil> depends on which avr it uses
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[22:48] <Upu> my original board used NSS for the GPS
[22:48] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:48] <Upu> Darkside is entirely correct use hardware where possible
[22:49] <Lunar_Lander> the uno only has one UART if I get it right
[22:49] <Lunar_Lander> it has an atmega328
[22:49] <Upu> you can use that for GPS and program via ICSP
[22:50] <Lunar_Lander> what is ICSP?
[22:51] <jonsowman> in circuit serial programmer
[22:51] <jonsowman> hi eroomde
[22:51] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[22:51] <Upu> see that little 2x3 connector present on most Arduino boards
[22:51] <Upu> thats the ICSP connector
[22:51] <Lunar_Lander> sorry that I am still so stupid about those things
[22:51] <fsphil> aka ISP
[22:51] <Lunar_Lander> yeah, that I know
[22:51] <Upu> thats how you normally program AVR's
[22:51] <Upu> without the Arduino bootloader
[22:52] <Lunar_Lander> yea#
[22:52] <Lunar_Lander> I heard about that
[22:52] <Lunar_Lander> with avrdude and stuff?
[22:52] <jonsowman> yep
[22:52] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:52] <Lunar_Lander> ohh and setting fuses and so on
[22:53] <fsphil> the arduino ide can program using the isp header too
[22:53] <fsphil> so you don't need to use avrdude directly
[22:53] <Upu> you can use an Arduino Pro that runs at 3.3v
[22:53] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[22:53] <Lunar_Lander> one of those sparkfun ones?
[22:53] <Upu> yeah
[22:53] Action: daveake likes those ^^
[22:53] <Upu> Ava2 is basically an Arduino Pro at its core
[22:54] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[22:54] <daveake> But with added pinkness?
[22:54] <Upu> and is programmed via Arduino program via ICSP freeing up the one hardware UART on the 328 for the GPS
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[22:54] <Upu> the pinkess-o-meter is up to 11
[22:54] <Upu> something up with it though
[22:54] <Upu> all works GPs etc but I put the radio on and thats not right at all
[22:54] <Lunar_Lander> but wait
[22:55] <Lunar_Lander> what exactly do I need to program so that the UART is free for the GPS?
[22:55] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/?p=236
[22:55] <daveake> For testing I put a switch in the GPS --> Arduino line, so I can cut the signal to program the Arduino
[22:56] <daveake> Bit of a pain but it works
[22:56] <Upu> and you need one of these : http://www.coolcomponents.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=145
[22:56] <eroomde> in keeping with the pink theme
[22:56] <eroomde> when you nex to a sea landing
[22:57] <eroomde> you should tell it that you 'wanna wrap you in rubber'
[22:57] <jonsowman> the AVRISP is good too: http://onecall.farnell.com/atmel/atavrisp2/programmer-avr-mcu-isp/dp/1135517?Ntt=avrisp
[22:57] <jonsowman> how's things eroomde?
[22:57] <Upu> lol
[22:57] <eroomde> grand
[22:57] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:57] <Lunar_Lander> I'm so sorry<
[22:57] <eroomde> and you jonsowman ?
[22:57] <Lunar_Lander> I'm so ashamed that I don't get those things
[22:57] <jonsowman> eroomde: not too bad thanks, term's getting busy again
[22:58] <Upu> won't worry about it Lunar_Lander everyone has to learn
[22:58] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:58] <Upu> everyone has to sleep too, night all
[22:58] <Lunar_Lander> and it looks so complicated at the first sight
[22:58] <Lunar_Lander> gn8 Upu
[22:58] <daveake> nn upu
[22:58] <fsphil> there's just so much to consider sometimes
[22:59] <eroomde> there really is
[22:59] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:59] <Lunar_Lander> so he got that programmer which looks like an old printer plug
[22:59] <eroomde> you have compilation toolchains of several components, 20 different ways of inserting the code on the chip, a large mental model of how chips work to absorb, the c language to swallow
[22:59] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[23:00] <fsphil> toggle the wrong bit and it may go on fire...
[23:00] <eroomde> if you're new to it all it must seem impossible
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> this is the thing
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> I was happy when I got the NTX2 talking at first
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> then I got sensor data that looked plausible
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> the GPS seems to be the final thing
[23:01] <eroomde> just keep plugging away
[23:01] <fsphil> aye, one step at a time
[23:01] <daveake> My hurdle for the NTX2 was that I didn't have a receiver to test with ...
[23:01] <eroomde> then when you get to the end you turn around and look back and see how far you've come
[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> thing is
[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> we were three men in 2008
[23:01] <eroomde> i should be the channel's pithy fortuny cookie platitude generator
[23:01] <daveake> ... so I had to mock one up with an NRX2 and a signal generator with a sweep input :)
[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> a dutchman who had the idea and then an electrician by profession
[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> and I
[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> the dutchman dropped out
[23:02] <eroomde> no longer flying huh
[23:02] <Lunar_Lander> and then the other guy first went to Africa without telling me
[23:02] <fsphil> you with your... electronics, daveake
[23:02] <fsphil> lol eroomde
[23:02] <Lunar_Lander> and now doesn't answer the phone or mails or stuff
[23:02] <Lunar_Lander> now it's only me
[23:02] <eroomde> well, you have us
[23:02] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:02] <eroomde> and baby we got you
[23:02] <Lunar_Lander> xD thanks
[23:03] <Lunar_Lander> and I mean I think that it is possible
[23:03] <Lunar_Lander> and I don't have those 300 euro for a SPOT
[23:03] <Lunar_Lander> also I think it is too simple to go that way
[23:03] <eroomde> simplicity usually wins
[23:04] <fsphil> A spot and a gsm tracker combination would be pretty solid
[23:04] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[23:04] <Lunar_Lander> this is how Raul flew
[23:04] <Lunar_Lander> he had only a SPOT
[23:04] <fsphil> you'd have the mystery bit when it was above 18km and out of gsm range
[23:04] <fsphil> but almost certain to find it after it lands
[23:04] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:04] <eroomde> what i often tell myself, in times of struggle, is that the Scout rockets in the 60s could routinely deliver a payload into orbit with a paper-tape control system
[23:04] <fsphil> yikes
[23:04] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:05] <Lunar_Lander> was that onboard the rocket?
[23:05] <daveake> I got onto this after watching a YT video with just an SMS tracker plus cameras. Quickly realised that wasn't always going to work :)
[23:05] <eroomde> so i definitely don't need to upgrade this microcontroller
[23:05] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: yes, onboard
[23:05] <Lunar_Lander> ah and the program was on punchtape?
[23:05] <daveake> eroomde yeah, it's humbling to see what was done back then. Now we have GPS and ready-built processor boards and spacenear etc etc. Too easy now :)
[23:06] <fsphil> I imagine that was quite an impressive bit of design eroomde
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[23:07] <Lunar_Lander> the russians determined rocket burn times using integrators
[23:07] <eroomde> i can only begin to imagine
[23:07] <eroomde> they must have had to really nail their physics
[23:07] <fsphil> didn't the russians use microphones on rockets, and listen to the sounds it made to diagnose problems?
[23:07] <eroomde> and have really well tuned sensors and actuators
[23:07] <Lunar_Lander> good question fsphil
[23:08] <Lunar_Lander> I only know that when there was a failure, the telemetry system produced films that had to be developed before analysis
[23:09] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[23:09] <Lunar_Lander> I hope that I don't sound like some people I saw on forums
[23:09] <Lunar_Lander> who are like "but I don't want to work!"
[23:09] <eroomde> we once fly a payload for someone who flew an mp3 recorder
[23:09] <eroomde> for exactly that reason
[23:10] <eroomde> they had pumps to suck in air to sample things
[23:10] <eroomde> and wanted to get some feedback on what the various motors were doing, rpms etc
[23:10] <Lunar_Lander> to establish that the pumps were working?
[23:10] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:10] <fsphil> nice
[23:11] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[23:11] <Lunar_Lander> Raul still has my NTX2
[23:11] <Lunar_Lander> and he flies again soon and wants to try to get it running again
[23:11] <Lunar_Lander> with the sensor code I mentioned above
[23:12] <Lunar_Lander> I left him the preprogrammed uno and the NTX2 and the sensors and told him how to use dl-fldigi
[23:12] <Lunar_Lander> but it is all on breadboard
[23:12] <Lunar_Lander> not reliable
[23:13] <fsphil> breadboard can be so annoying
[23:13] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:13] <Lunar_Lander> I built Upu's tutorial circuit
[23:13] <Lunar_Lander> the next day I connected the arduino and got no signal
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[23:14] <fsphil> someone should invent an SMD version of breadboard
[23:14] <polycarbonate1> I really wouldn't trust breadboard on impact...
[23:14] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:14] <polycarbonate1> fsphil: hahaha
[23:14] <Lunar_Lander> thus I went to the electro store and got stripboard
[23:14] <Lunar_Lander> veroboard it is called in the UK, right?
[23:14] <fsphil> my first four flights where all built on stripboard
[23:14] <polycarbonate1> Veroboard's awesome
[23:15] <fsphil> veroboard is a brand name, but it's usually called that no matter who make it
[23:15] <Lunar_Lander> I decided to make Upu's circuit on stripboard
[23:15] <Lunar_Lander> the idea of mine is that the strips are like the lines on a breadboard
[23:15] <Lunar_Lander> so I thought it would be easy to figure out where what goes
[23:15] <fsphil> the concept is similar, except you have to cut the tracks yourself
[23:15] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:15] <Lunar_Lander> I thought if I take the board and cut out one whole line
[23:15] <fsphil> that gets tiring if you've a lot of cutting to do
[23:15] <Lunar_Lander> I can "imitate" a breadboard
[23:15] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:16] <fsphil> also creates a weak line on the board
[23:16] <fsphil> hadie:1 broke along it on landing
[23:16] <fsphil> although that was more because of the stupid way I mounted the antenna, than the board being weak
[23:17] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[23:17] <Lunar_Lander> my professor said he prefers the other kind of board where there are no tracks
[23:17] <eroomde> fsphil: smd:breadboard
[23:17] <Lunar_Lander> where you have to solder wire up yourself
[23:17] <eroomde> nothing a microscope and asbergers can't fix
[23:17] <eroomde> http://elm-chan.org/works/cube/ph3l.jpeg
[23:17] <fsphil> protoboard?
[23:18] <fsphil> wow
[23:19] <Elwell> eroomde: going for a SMD version of the classic honeywell posters?
[23:19] <fsphil> suddenly eagle looks better
[23:19] <daveake> eek
[23:20] <eroomde> http://elm-chan.org/docs/wire/wiring_e.html
[23:20] <daveake> At Uni I made a computer on vero with a vero wiring pen. That was bad enough.
[23:20] <eroomde> i think this was hobby electronics in a pre-seeedstudio era
[23:21] <fsphil> I don't think I kept my first PCB, but if I find it I'll take a pic. it was pretty awful
[23:22] <eroomde> the first one i designed would be....
[23:22] <eroomde> my gcse prototype
[23:22] <eroomde> those were good days
[23:22] <eroomde> idea to finished pcb in an afternoon
[23:22] <daveake> http://koo.corpus.cam.ac.uk/chaos/
[23:22] <eroomde> thanks to the magic of signal sided copper clad board, a UV box and a bubble-etch tank
[23:22] <fsphil> I wasn't allowed near the etcher tank in school
[23:23] <eroomde> ferric chloride + school blazers was always dangerous
[23:23] <fsphil> and to be honest I'm not sure anyone there knew how it worked anyway
[23:23] <daveake> :D
[23:23] <eroomde> but we were always keen
[23:23] <eroomde> I'd make a pcb and my teacher would say 'oh, you could route that track slightly better couldn't you?' and make me start again
[23:24] <eroomde> re design, re-print onto acetate, re-etch
[23:24] <eroomde> good practice though
[23:24] <eroomde> wax on, wax off
[23:24] <daveake> I made one with the ics laid out upside down. I didn't remake it :)
[23:24] <eroomde> haha wow
[23:25] <eroomde> we've all been there
[23:25] <daveake> Yeah, I know :)
[23:25] <eroomde> like the time you wear underwear 3 days in a row to save washing
[23:25] <eroomde> you die a little inside
[23:25] <Lunar_Lander> lol
[23:25] <daveake> lol
[23:25] <fsphil> I've not reached that level yet :)
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[23:26] <Elwell> take up long-distance sailing
[23:26] <Elwell> err. allegedly.
[23:26] Action: fsphil thinks about that for a moment
[23:26] <Elwell> don't.
[23:26] <fsphil> you know what, nah
[23:27] <fsphil> although, I do want a small boat
[23:27] <daveake> I need one :)
[23:28] <hibby> FUCK
[23:28] <hibby> my washing's in the machine
[23:28] <hibby> thanks for the reminder eroomde
[23:28] <daveake> All part of the service ...
[23:28] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[23:29] <hibby> clean clothes
[23:29] Action: hibby can now go gym tomorrow
[23:31] <Lunar_Lander> yay
[23:33] <Lunar_Lander> I hope that I can get the GPS done soon
[23:34] <eroomde> hibby: you reminder just reminded me to get my running stuff on the line
[23:34] <eroomde> as i'm going for a run first thing tomorrow
[23:34] <eroomde> second thing tomorrow
[23:35] <eroomde> nothing before coffee and peanut butter toast
[23:35] <eroomde> NOTHING :|
[23:35] <natrium42> < Lunar_Lander> I hope that I can get the GPS done soon
[23:35] <natrium42> me too >:)
[23:35] Action: natrium42 brings out the whip
[23:36] <hibby> http://youtu.be/avYBuijHPBI <== I think this was me at the weekend...
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[23:37] <Lunar_Lander> rofl
[23:38] <eroomde> funnist bit was the random asside at the end
[23:38] <hibby> first time I saw that it was the "this has to stop" comment...
[23:39] <hibby> i say that all too regularly.
[23:39] <Lunar_Lander> yea because if I don't get it working, it makes me more ridiculous with my friends who know my balloon plans from back in 2008
[23:40] <daveake> I wonder what the shortest and longest periods are, from deciding to do your first launch to actually doint it
[23:41] <daveake> *doing
[23:41] <eroomde> longest period is the punishment period when you've spent too long on hab and not enought time with her
[23:42] <Darkside> <-- single
[23:42] <Darkside> solves a lot of these problems
[23:43] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:43] <Lunar_Lander> my last gf couldn't understand my work on HAB and didn't like that I was studying physics
[23:43] <eroomde> that's just like that story about engineers
[23:43] <eroomde> where the punchline is 'yeah - the clothes probably woudn't have fitted'
[23:44] <Darkside> she didn't like tht you were studying physics?
[23:44] <Darkside> why?
[23:47] <Lunar_Lander> she said physicsts have no emotions and can only do nuclear destruction
[23:47] <daveake> I'm guessing she was doing something difficult and worthwhile, like media studies
[23:48] <Darkside> hahahahah
[23:48] <Darkside> bloody humanities students
[23:48] <Darkside> humanities/arts
[23:49] <Lunar_Lander> no
[23:49] <Lunar_Lander> because her father died in 2003 she had school problems and is currently trying to do her A-Levels and stuff
[23:49] <Lunar_Lander> at the age of 24
[23:51] <Darkside> still doesn't excuse her giving you shit for studying
[23:51] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:52] <fsphil> ack, you got me watching asdfmovie again
[23:52] <daveake> LL So now I feel bad :/
[23:54] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[23:54] <Lunar_Lander> I felt bad when I saw this: http://spacenear.us/wiki/doku.php
[23:54] <Lunar_Lander> fortunately those links seem to go nowhere
[23:59] <Lunar_Lander> but thanks daveake
[00:00] --- Wed Jan 25 2012