[00:00] <fsphil> not having much luck with these things tonight
[00:01] Nick change: Guest80181 -> NigeyS
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[00:08] <Upu> right fixed the wiki entry for the uBlox 6 break out to advise its in Eagle 6.1 format sorry for the confusion
[00:09] <Upu> As Eagle have not fixed their bug and XML format is good for version control I upgraded
[00:09] <Upu> oh you no longer "cut" to "copy" which is worth an upgrade on its own
[00:15] <Upu> night
[00:18] <fsphil> nite!
[00:18] <Lunar_Lander> oh well
[00:19] <Lunar_Lander> do you remember free day?
[00:19] <Lunar_Lander> where I stated I would like to have a wife?
[00:19] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[00:19] <fsphil> my fingers do :)
[00:19] <fsphil> oh yea
[00:19] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[00:19] <fsphil> you haven't got married have you?
[00:19] <Lunar_Lander> no
[00:19] <Lunar_Lander> I'm still looking for a woman
[00:20] <Lunar_Lander> but RTL II (which is like the worst tv station in Germany) currently shows a show in which men are looking for women from Eastern Europe
[00:20] <Lunar_Lander> the show is shit
[00:21] <fsphil> I remember RTL II
[00:21] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[00:30] <Lunar_Lander> not good, right?
[00:31] <fsphil> don't remember much about it
[00:31] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[00:31] <Lunar_Lander> got a HAB question again
[00:31] <fsphil> tended just to watch the music channels
[00:31] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[00:31] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[00:31] <Lunar_Lander> tomorrow I wanted to test the GPS in the garden
[00:31] <Lunar_Lander> do I have to put metal foil under the antenna?
[00:32] <fsphil> depends on the antenna
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[00:34] <Lunar_Lander> one moment
[00:35] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.sparkfun.com/products/177
[00:35] <Lunar_Lander> this I have
[00:35] <fsphil> yea I think they work better with a ground sheet
[00:36] <Lunar_Lander> OK
[00:36] <Lunar_Lander> normal aluminum foil?
[00:38] <fsphil> I think so
[00:41] <Lunar_Lander> OK
[00:41] <Lunar_Lander> thanks :)
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[01:00] <SpeedEvil> http://fatpita.net/?i=7542 - gyrostabilised painted balloons anyone?
[01:02] <Dan-K2VOL> heeh
[01:02] <Dan-K2VOL> yes, it should definitely watch people
[01:02] <Lunar_Lander> hey Dan-K2VOL
[01:19] <Lunar_Lander> how are you Dan-K2VOL?
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[01:21] <Dan-K2VOL> hi kevin
[01:21] <Dan-K2VOL> doing fine
[01:21] <Dan-K2VOL> you?
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[01:29] <Lunar_Lander> me too, thanks
[01:29] <Lunar_Lander> what are you up to?
[01:54] <Lunar_Lander> Dan-K2VOL:
[01:55] <Dan-K2VOL> what's up
[01:55] <Dan-K2VOL> just tinkering in the hackerspace
[01:55] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[01:55] <Lunar_Lander> yeah I'm watching Sims III on Youtube
[01:55] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[01:56] <Dan-K2VOL> heh
[01:56] <Lunar_Lander> the commentary by that guy is awesome xD
[02:01] <Lunar_Lander> Dan-K2VOL: last time you said, natrium and you discussed the SHARP dust sensor
[02:19] <Lunar_Lander> did you do that yet?
[02:21] <Dan-K2VOL> I'm not sure? we've tested it in the cold and it does in fact indicate things
[02:21] <Dan-K2VOL> but we don't know how to calibrate it anyway
[02:21] <Dan-K2VOL> I mean, how to create a precise ppm?
[02:21] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[02:21] <Lunar_Lander> yeah I still don't know that either
[02:21] <Lunar_Lander> have to think about it
[02:22] <Lunar_Lander> did you put it ino the cryo chamber?
[02:36] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah
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[02:47] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[02:47] <Lunar_Lander> :)
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[09:07] <Upu> morning
[09:09] <number10> morning
[09:17] <eroomde> morning
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[09:30] <jcoxon> morning
[09:31] <eroomde> morning
[09:32] <jcoxon> eroomde, hows the free life?
[09:32] <eroomde> wonderful
[09:32] <jcoxon> :-)
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[10:54] <cuddykid> time to pack all my HAB stuff
[10:56] <cuddykid> spark fun package is still siting in San Francisco
[10:59] <fsphil> I would too if I knew where I was going :)
[11:01] <eroomde> cuddykid: packing it for what?
[11:02] <cuddykid> eroomde: back to uni
[11:03] <cuddykid> I try and do all the software stuff and prototyping there and then when I get back solder it all up :D
[11:04] <eroomde> ah ic
[11:04] <eroomde> it's a delicate thing to pack :)
[11:04] <cuddykid> yup! Got a huge box full of equipment - looks a bit suspicious lol
[11:05] <cuddykid> bbl
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[11:15] <nosebleedkt> Hi all
[11:16] <nosebleedkt> sunny day here, hope that for britain too :)
[11:16] <fsphil> cloudy here, but finally no wind!!!11
[11:16] <eroomde> glorious here
[11:16] <nosebleedkt> got full wind here :)
[11:16] <eroomde> am gonna go for a run
[11:16] <fsphil> nice
[11:16] <fsphil> sun is to come out here later I think
[11:16] <nosebleedkt> :P
[11:17] <nosebleedkt> did u heard of natrium42 all these days?
[11:17] <fsphil> he checks in now and then
[11:18] <nosebleedkt> that hollywood drives him mad :)
[11:18] <fsphil> ze bright lightz!
[11:23] <nosebleedkt> I did some orders from 31th Dec
[11:23] <nosebleedkt> still havents arrived
[11:23] <fsphil> where from?
[11:24] <nosebleedkt> from adafruit and geekonfire.com
[11:27] <Darkside> woo linuxconf
[11:29] <Laurenceb_> geekonfire?!
[11:29] Action: Laurenceb_ supplies the petrol
[11:32] <nosebleedkt> geekonfire is chinese and Im used to take things from there up to 3 weeks
[11:32] <nosebleedkt> adafruit is american ?
[11:37] <fsphil> Darkside, blah :p
[11:38] <Darkside> fsphil: i'm in ballarat!
[11:38] <Darkside> whee
[11:38] <Darkside> talking about TOPCAT tomorrow
[11:38] <Darkside> then talking about project horus on tuesday
[11:38] <Darkside> practically re-writing my TOPCAT talk as we speak lol
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[11:41] <eroomde> Darkside: what is topcat?
[11:41] <Darkside> cubesat payload
[11:41] <Darkside> going in UKube-1
[11:42] <eroomde> ah cool
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[12:25] <nosebleedkt> clouds hide the sunlight, me getting upset
[12:27] <fsphil> sun is out here :)
[12:31] <Hiena> Heh. Scattered clouds, sunny, +6C, 12+m/s wind here.
[12:32] <Hiena> I would be glad if it's calms a bit. It throws my heating bills.
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[12:48] <nosebleedkt> fsphil - the sun thirf
[12:48] <nosebleedkt> thief*
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[13:12] <fsphil> nah it's gone again nosebleedkt
[13:13] <nosebleedkt> its not here either. I think someone did the thing.
[13:15] <fsphil> there are chickens outside. that's odd
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[13:19] <jcoxon> back
[13:19] <fsphil> re
[13:21] <eroomde> jcoxon: sorry i got called away earlier
[13:21] <eroomde> picogps sounds awesome
[13:21] <jcoxon> yeah i'm pleased with it
[13:21] <navrac> hi james - please ignore the email I sent you re: PCB - I'd forgotten the crystal oven circuitry anyway
[13:21] <jcoxon> oh right
[13:21] <jcoxon> just replied :-)
[13:22] <navrac> oh right - its so dense it doesnt leave much room for bodging around errors!
[13:22] <jcoxon> hehe
[13:23] <navrac> I'm knocking out some boards for the antenova to decent size pads as well for prototyping - do you want me to post you one to play with
[13:24] <jcoxon> sure, if there is one spare
[13:24] <jcoxon> i've got 1 gps module left
[13:24] <jcoxon> though they aren't too difficult to solder directly to
[13:24] <navrac> yep - I was going to be making the pcb's today - but I have to take the wife out for lunch as its her birthday
[13:25] <jcoxon> fair enough
[13:25] <daveake_> tsk, get your priorities right ;)
[13:25] <navrac> I wish I'd just soldered directly to the back instead of heatgunning
[13:26] <jcoxon> navrac, 5.5g without power
[13:26] <navrac> thanks for checking the board - its been 20 years since I had to lay out my own - and eagle proved to be a challenge
[13:26] <navrac> blimey
[13:26] <navrac> the pcb is whats costing me all the weight
[13:27] <jcoxon> hehe, it'll be less fragile :-)
[13:27] <navrac> ive only got thick stuff in stock
[13:27] <navrac> yeah but its the second biggest weight after the battery - I think your approach is more weight efficient
[13:29] <jcoxon> i'm tempted to switch to using a AA rather than AAA
[13:30] <jcoxon> sure it'll increase hte mass but it would last a lot longer
[13:31] <fsphil> are you using a battery holder? could dump that
[13:31] <jcoxon> yeah
[13:32] <jcoxon> makes it tougher to test
[13:32] <fsphil> yea true
[13:32] <jcoxon> i'm tempted to go back to my solar/lipo combo
[13:34] <daveake_> How cold does it get at pico heights of 4km or so?
[13:36] <daveake_> and is a lipo ok at those temperatures?
[13:41] <jcoxon> about -15
[13:42] <jcoxon> its debatable
[13:42] <jcoxon> but
[13:42] <Upu> afternoon
[13:42] <jcoxon> it would mean that it would work for many days
[13:43] <navrac> well you's is so light that you could probably afford to go to AA
[13:44] <jcoxon> better mAh to gram ratio
[13:44] <NigelMoby> lipos will freeze James
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[13:45] <jcoxon> in direct sunlight?
[13:45] <NigelMoby> might last a bit longer, but I've tested lipos that die just below 0
[13:46] <NigelMoby> if u can insulate it well enough u may get a good few hours out of it.
[13:47] <NigelMoby> but if u stay up overnight, I don't fancy ure chances with lipo
[13:47] <jcoxon> well the aim would be for the solar to resurrect the lipo
[13:47] <navrac> lipos loose about 30% capacity at 0 degrees and actually get damaged below -4. Can't remember which datasheet i got that from
[13:48] <navrac> but i remember it said irreversable damage below -4
[13:48] <NigelMoby> navrac that sounds about right
[13:49] <NigelMoby> James is it a lipo from sf?
[13:49] <jcoxon> yeah
[13:49] <jcoxon> 110mAh
[13:49] <NigelMoby> they are actually rated to -15
[13:49] <NigelMoby> but, not tested them
[13:49] <navrac> they must self heat whilst discharging though
[13:50] <navrac> your tx+gps must draw 50mA on average so thats 0-5C so should kick out some heat
[13:51] <navrac> 0.5C not degrees C
[13:51] <jcoxon> also have my lipo charger
[13:52] <Upu> afternoon jcoxon
[13:52] <jcoxon> hey Upu
[13:52] <Upu> those PCB's of interest ?
[13:52] <NigelMoby> they do get slightly warm while charging to... hmm... might just survive then, but I wouldn't place a bet on it
[13:52] <jcoxon> yeah
[13:53] <Upu> when you've finalised the radio circuit etc let me know and we can get some made up
[13:53] <Upu> I need to get the width < 25mm so we can get 2 on each 50x50 Seeed PCB
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[14:03] <navrac> the ESR seems to roughly double at -10 from +10 so the heat generated inside the pack should help say its 200mohm then at 50mA thats only 4mW heat per second or -.24joules per minute - I dont think thats enough to counter the effect
[14:04] <navrac> and is probably local heating which could cause the damage to the pack
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[14:21] <SpeedEvil> .24J/min
[14:21] <SpeedEvil> haha
[14:22] <SpeedEvil> Work it out in watts
[14:22] <SpeedEvil> that's 5 milliwatts
[14:22] <SpeedEvil> That will do no heating whatsoever, unless you have this inside a vacuum bottle.
[14:23] <navrac> yep - but i just read a very boring datasheet from sony who say their lipo is useable down to -20c
[14:23] <navrac> obviously with some loss of capacity - but no damage
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[15:08] Nick change: grummund_ -> grummund
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[15:24] <fsphil> phobos grunt is landing tonight, unfortunately on the wrong planet
[15:25] <SpeedEvil> :/
[15:25] <SpeedEvil> Also the phase of the orbit means that it may land over us
[15:25] <SpeedEvil> http://reentrynews.aero.org/2011065a.html
[15:25] <fsphil> if it stays clear I might keep an eye out
[15:25] <kristianpaul> SpeedEvil: the fpga in osmos-sdr is usefull to decimate
[15:25] <SpeedEvil> kristianpaul: Of course.
[15:26] <kristianpaul> as the tunner minimun wb is 1msps
[15:26] <SpeedEvil> kristianpaul: But... I have a ~3.2GHz CPU that I don't care if it gets busy.
[15:26] <kristianpaul> he, sure
[15:27] <SpeedEvil> Also - meh.
[15:28] <SpeedEvil> The rb standards on ebay got davedotted - so I assume they rose in price
[15:28] <SpeedEvil> hmm - seemingly not
[15:30] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: If it's reentering, it should appear either on-time, or just after, glowing brightly, I assume
[15:30] Action: SpeedEvil is unsure how many revs it's delayed at the beginning of 'visible' reentry
[15:30] <daveake_> "19:21 UTC ± 3 hours" .... makes the average HAB launch time prediction look quite accurate :)
[15:33] <cuddykid> hmm - is there any way to have 2 eagle schematic windows open at once? Whenever I click "new" it get's rid of the old one :/
[15:38] <russss> see also http://twitter.com/phg_reentry
[15:39] <russss> although the US government probably has several orders of magnitude more accurate reentry estimates than they're letting on
[15:39] <russss> and presumably the same with the Russians
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[15:42] <SparxEtch> Although an artificial satellite crashing into London is veeeery slim and obviously dangerous. I'd love to see it some day.
[15:42] <number10> where do you live SparxEtch ?
[15:42] <SparxEtch> Islington.
[15:43] <number10> I presume you would hope it to crash into south london then
[15:43] <Laurenceb_> so passing overhead about what time?
[15:43] <SparxEtch> Hopefully on a brownfield site owned by British Land.
[15:44] <russss> this is now the re-entry orbit according to the Russians: http://www.russianspaceweb.com/images/spacecraft/planetary/mars/phobos_grunt/reentry/reentry_map_2012_01_15_B_1.jpg
[15:45] <russss> quite a large portion of that is over land
[15:49] <SparxEtch> I'd say that's one of the most 'over-land' routes possible.
[15:50] <SpeedEvil> Annoyingly, that is invisible from the UK
[15:50] <SpeedEvil> it needs to last another 2-3 orbits to move the footprint west.
[15:51] <SparxEtch> Does anyone know about the CAA side of launching?
[15:53] <SpeedEvil> Even overflies russia a bit - that orbit
[15:53] <SpeedEvil> But then most do.
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[16:07] <jcoxon> hey Upu
[16:07] <jcoxon> sorry for disappearing
[16:07] <Upu> nps
[16:09] <jcoxon> yeah the pcb would be useful
[16:09] <jcoxon> i can think of lots of applications
[16:10] <Upu> yup and should be alittle more robust
[16:10] <jcoxon> yeah
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[16:10] <Upu> if you're happy with the general schematic I can get those made fairly quickly
[16:10] <jcoxon> i know you are a big fan of the ublox 6 chip
[16:10] <jcoxon> but opting for an antenova m10382 will drop the mass further
[16:11] <Upu> well it works for me but if you want something else on there let me know
[16:11] <Upu> they look hard to solder ?
[16:11] <jcoxon> true
[16:11] <jcoxon> also they are quite fragile
[16:12] <Upu> if they have ublox 6 in them how come they weigh less ?
[16:12] <Upu> antenna ?
[16:12] <jcoxon> they are the smaller chipset version
[16:12] <jcoxon> and the antenna is tiny
[16:12] <Upu> ok
[16:12] <jcoxon> but would be sensitive
[16:12] <jcoxon> to nearby stuff
[16:13] <Upu> can you send me a clear picture of it so I can get a feel for it, also the solder pads, they are underneth ?
[16:13] <jcoxon> they are underneath
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[16:13] <Upu> I'm not sure I can solder that tbh
[16:13] <jcoxon> but i was wondering whether you could have the pads a bit longer so you could heat the exposed pad
[16:13] <Upu> yeah sure that can be done
[16:13] <jcoxon> and if it was pre-tinned
[16:14] <Upu> they are
[16:14] <Upu> I think you use paste
[16:14] <jcoxon> it would form a nice bond
[16:14] <jcoxon> navrac could help
[16:14] <jcoxon> when he is here next
[16:14] <Upu> but never done it I'll give it a shot, send me a clear pix/picture and link the data sheet and I'll make a part for it tonight
[16:14] <Upu> I have to afk for a few back soon
[16:14] <jcoxon> np
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[16:37] <Upu> having a look now
[16:37] <Upu> does this have an external antenna jcoxon ?
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[16:37] <Upu> or is it built into that sheild ?
[16:38] <jcoxon> its built in
[16:38] <Upu> what addtional circuity is required externally to the unit ?
[16:38] <jcoxon> the antenna matching circuit
[16:38] <jcoxon> which can be a number of things
[16:39] <jcoxon> i've gone for a single 22pF capacitor
[16:39] <Upu> ok
[16:39] <jcoxon> which is working with the one i'm using currently
[16:39] <Upu> Hand Soldering
[16:39] <Upu> Hand-soldering and rework of the M10382 module are not recommended.
[16:39] <Upu> :)
[16:39] <Upu> "whatever"
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[16:41] <Upu> ok I have data sheet and stuff so I'll try knock up a part in Eagle after tea
[16:41] <jcoxon> :-)
[16:41] <jcoxon> i reckon with that gps you'll be looking at 5g for the whole thing
[16:42] <Upu> lol
[16:42] <Upu> impressive
[16:42] <Upu> where you buy these ?
[16:42] <Upu> might help if I have one here
[16:42] <jcoxon> well they are designed in the UK
[16:42] <jcoxon> but i had to get it from mouser in the states
[16:43] <Upu> these are going to be interesting to solder
[16:43] <jcoxon> if we can get them in the uk they'll be about 25 pounds
[16:43] <Upu> ok
[16:44] <jcoxon> i think if the pads were twice as long you could flow the solder in
[16:44] <jcoxon> with a normal iron
[16:44] <Upu> yeah or a little solder paste and the same
[16:44] <jcoxon> the pads have a good bit of seperation between them
[16:44] <jcoxon> the key is not to heat the antenna
[16:44] <jcoxon> as this breaks it
[16:44] <Upu> yeah odd spacing but otherwise doesn't look too hard
[16:44] <jcoxon> as navrac discovered when he hot air gunned it
[16:45] <Upu> which pin is the antenna ?
[16:45] <jcoxon> the antenna is onboard
[16:45] <jcoxon> on top of the casing
[16:46] <Upu> http://sigma.octopart.com/10602907/image/Antenova-M10382-A1.jpg
[16:46] <Upu> that gold bit ?
[16:46] <jcoxon> yup
[16:46] <jcoxon> if you look i
[16:46] <jcoxon> in hte datasheet it shows the correct orientation
[16:46] <jcoxon> its not perhaps as you expect
[16:47] <jcoxon> i guess its like a jpole antenna
[16:47] <Upu> yeah
[16:49] <Upu> ok leave it with me
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[17:48] <SpeedEvil> http://www.openvsp.org/
[17:48] <SpeedEvil> Funky
[17:49] <SpeedEvil> opensource aircraft parametric design
[18:09] <Laurenceb_> phobus is coming past
[18:10] <Laurenceb_> over spain tho :-/
[18:16] <fsphil> apparently burned up over the pacific
[18:19] <Laurenceb_> really
[18:26] <Laurenceb_> who says?
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[18:34] <cuddykid> sky news (and others)
[18:34] <cuddykid> according to the russian news agency
[18:37] <Laurenceb_> booo
[18:37] <Laurenceb_> i wanted to see the fireball
[18:39] <Laurenceb_> this pass would put it over us
[18:40] <SpeedEvil> Not really
[18:40] <SpeedEvil> next pass maybe
[18:41] <SpeedEvil> I don't think you can see it this pass
[18:41] <Laurenceb_> ]cant now
[18:41] <SpeedEvil> Well - yes.
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[18:52] <Hiena> Anybody has a live tracker from the Phobos-Grunt?
[18:53] <Hiena> We have Catastrophe Warning about 2 hours ago.
[18:53] <fsphil> What's left of it is now in the pacific
[18:54] <fsphil> I think you're safe :)
[18:55] <Hiena> Ok. Guess the local authorities still expecting it. ;)
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[19:12] <SpeedEvil> Honda++
[19:12] cuddykid_ (~acudworth@ joined #highaltitude.
[19:13] <SpeedEvil> After just sort-of-disssasembling the carb on a generator that had been sitting for ~4 years - and cleaning out the petrol tank and fitting a new filter, I heated the block to ~40C with a fan-heater, and it started second time.
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[19:15] Nick change: cuddykid_ -> cuddykid
[19:16] <Laurenceb_> is there a signed integer to hex convertor anywhere?
[19:16] <Hiena> Well, just made a beautiful PCB. Sharp traces, no underetching, smooth surface. And totally mirrored...
[19:16] <SpeedEvil> Flip the components.
[19:17] <Laurenceb_> grrr
[19:18] <Hiena> No way. It will be a commercial product.
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[19:21] <fsphil> Laurenceb_, just mask the top bit and use a regular hex converter. then stick the - symbol on if the top bit was set
[19:21] <Randomskk> two's complement presumably
[19:21] <fsphil> and invert the bits too
[19:21] <fsphil> if negative
[19:22] <fsphil> oh yea, flip the bits and add 1
[19:23] <Laurenceb_> nvm done it on paper
[19:23] <Laurenceb_> my magnetometer is annoying me
[19:24] <Laurenceb_> been stuck all day on this issue :(
[19:24] <Laurenceb_> http://pastebin.com/ffw0LXij
[19:24] <Laurenceb_> e.g. line 74
[19:24] <Laurenceb_> its moving slowly on table
[19:40] <SpeedEvil> http://fatpita.net/?i=11321
[19:41] <SpeedEvil> http://aurorawatch.lancs.ac.uk/
[19:41] <SpeedEvil> maybe not
[19:42] <SpeedEvil> Is that all static?
[19:46] Action: Laurenceb_ punches i2c
[19:50] <Laurenceb_> if i right shift each byte one to the left?!
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[20:55] <nosebleedkt> did phobos grunt landed on uk ?
[20:55] <russss> nope, pacific ocean
[20:56] <nosebleedkt> i red an article which said it could land on uk
[20:56] <russss> statistically it was going to happen there :P
[20:56] <russss> yeah it was at 51 degrees inclination so it was possible
[20:57] <nosebleedkt> its always going on the water :( Never drops on an neighboor so people go collect some stuff and keep it :(
[20:57] <fsphil> they used to aim for australia, but some people objected
[20:58] <nosebleedkt> juxta did not !
[20:59] <LazyLeopard> Esperance fined NASA for littering after Skylab, so the story goes. ;)
[21:07] <nosebleedkt> people goodnight. Tomorrow my linux engineering skills must be fresh :)
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[21:56] <Laurenceb_> http://dongiverse.com/
[21:56] <Laurenceb_> nsfw
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[21:58] <Laurenceb_> i guess that counts a reprap rule34
[22:01] <Darkside> i think i can guess what that is
[22:01] <SpeedEvil> I'm reminded of http://toywithme.com/articles/christmas-perverts/ which someone linked me to
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[22:27] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[22:45] <fsphil> hihihi
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
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[22:47] <fsphil> cold :) you?
[22:48] <Lunar_Lander> yea same here
[22:48] <Lunar_Lander> but I am listening to a Duran Duran cover story by coverville
[22:48] <Lunar_Lander> and that is good
[22:48] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[22:48] <fsphil> splendid
[22:49] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:49] <Lunar_Lander> Coverville is really good btw
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[23:02] <Dan-K2VOL> hola
[23:03] <Lunar_Lander> hello Dan-K2VOL
[23:03] <Lunar_Lander> how are you today?
[23:03] <Dan-K2VOL> I'm doing great, you kevin?
[23:04] <Lunar_Lander> I'm good, thanks
[23:04] <Lunar_Lander> my flight computer seems to take shape
[23:05] <Dan-K2VOL> that's cool
[23:05] <Lunar_Lander> at least paradoxial says that
[23:05] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[23:05] <Dan-K2VOL> hah
[23:05] <Dan-K2VOL> I'm working on our Iridium 9602 modem shield for arduino
[23:05] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[23:05] <Dan-K2VOL> we're trying to make it very usable for others
[23:05] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:05] <Dan-K2VOL> the power requirements are pretty rigid though
[23:05] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:05] <Lunar_Lander> I can imagine
[23:06] <Dan-K2VOL> trying to figure out how to include an inductor to prevent inrush current from exceeding 4 amps
[23:07] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:07] <Lunar_Lander> that would be good to have
[23:09] <fsphil> 4 amps?
[23:09] <fsphil> that's a fair bit
[23:09] <Dan-K2VOL> the 9602 spec sheet says that it has low impedance as it switches on
[23:10] <fsphil> would a big capacitor help?
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[23:11] <Dan-K2VOL> well, the supercap we have unfortunately will likely add to the available power
[23:11] <zyp> fsphil, no
[23:11] <fsphil> ah yea, the cap will sink power when it's switched on
[23:12] <zyp> inductance and capacitance are kind of opposites
[23:12] <Dan-K2VOL> basically if you hook a 5V 20A supply up to this shield, the modem starts in OFF mode when power is applied. When you turn it to on mode, it says you need to prevent the current from exceeding 4A as it turns on
[23:12] <Dan-K2VOL> so the cap will already have charged when you turn it to ON mode
[23:13] <SpeedEvil> Dan-K2VOL: Are you sure it doesn't mean the supply rise current must be limited to 4A?
[23:13] <zyp> remember that capacitive impedance decreases with frequency, inductive impedance increases
[23:13] <SpeedEvil> So as long as you slow the risetime, you're fine.
[23:13] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah speedevil
[23:14] <zyp> so an inductor is pretty much a short at dc, and a huge resistance at high frequencies
[23:14] <Dan-K2VOL> from the manual: The power supply should limit the in-rush2 current to 4 Amps maximum. In rush limit refers to the impedance of the modem when it is unpowered is very low. When power is supplied from an unlimited supply the instantaneous current can exceed 4 Amps If the current exceeds this value damage can occur. This can be limited in several ways, included using a supply that cannot provide more than 4 Amps instantaneously; or providing some seri
[23:14] <fsphil> seems an odd requirement
[23:14] <Dan-K2VOL> ahh interesting zyp
[23:14] <zyp> putting an inductor in series will thus limit the inrush current by suppressing the high frequency part of the change
[23:15] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah I'm curious what causes that need
[23:15] <SpeedEvil> The modem has a power-off mode,. or you're switching it on and off?
[23:15] <SpeedEvil> by an external FET
[23:15] <Dan-K2VOL> it has a power-on-off pin
[23:15] <SpeedEvil> Unpowered != 'power off'
[23:15] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm
[23:16] <zyp> I bet the modem have a huge internal capacitor, and the path leading to that capacitor can't handle more than 4A
[23:16] <SpeedEvil> I suspect it's got a large decoupling ...
[23:16] <SpeedEvil> that
[23:16] <fsphil> haha
[23:16] <SpeedEvil> Unless the decoupling cap is after an internal switch - it seems unlikely that that's what it's meaning
[23:17] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah the power usage profile doesn't seem to indicate that there's a large internal cap, TX burst power needed from external source is 1.5A for 10ms
[23:18] <daveake_> Has it got a series diode to prevent damage if power is reversed? Maybe they're worried about that.
[23:18] <SpeedEvil> An internal tantalum would pretty much do that
[23:19] <Dan-K2VOL> here is the manual for the curious http://www.discoverytelecom.eu/upload/iblock/60a/Iridium%209602%20SBD%20Transceiver%20Product%20Developers%20Guide.pdf
[23:19] <Dan-K2VOL> it's a very slick device, interfaced similar to a GSM modem with AT commands
[23:20] <Dan-K2VOL> daveake_ I'm not sure
[23:20] <SpeedEvil> I've never ever heard 'in-rush' in the context of a general current limit
[23:21] <SpeedEvil> It's alwasy in the context of first power-on.
[23:21] <Dan-K2VOL> that's what they seem to be implying
[23:21] <SpeedEvil> It may be reasonable to ping them about it.
[23:21] <Dan-K2VOL> when power-on
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[23:21] <SpeedEvil> I've had good responses in genral to datasheet clarity queries
[23:22] <Dan-K2VOL> the inductor sounds like the appropriate solution, just have to figure out how to spec one
[23:22] <Dan-K2VOL> well, we aren't approved developers :-)
[23:22] <Dan-K2VOL> yet anyway.
[23:22] <SpeedEvil> The inductor will tend to violate the voltage droop
[23:22] <Dan-K2VOL> but only during power-on, correct?
[23:23] <Dan-K2VOL> or during TX too
[23:23] <fsphil> it will slow any change in current
[23:23] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm
[23:24] <fsphil> but if they have a big cap in there it might not batter
[23:24] <fsphil> matter
[23:24] <fsphil> not sure where batter came from, I'm not even hungry
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[00:00] --- Mon Jan 16 2012