highaltitude.log.20120113

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[00:26] <Lunar_Lander> hello Dan-K2VOL
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[01:17] <natrium42> .
[01:18] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[01:18] <Lando-Uni> Lunar_Lander: Are you a Loony?
[01:18] <Lunar_Lander> no
[01:18] <Lunar_Lander> I told you already
[01:19] Action: natrium42 is
[01:19] <Lando-Uni> http://rwagraphics.com/looneylander.html
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[07:34] <earthshine> o/
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[08:18] <fsphil> murning
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[09:41] <Laurenceb_> sup
[09:43] <Laurenceb_> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-16540726 :-(
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[09:45] <gonzo_> one of the HAB crowd?
[09:46] <Laurenceb_> nah - i used to have him as a lecturer :-/
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[10:01] <daveake_> Friday 13th isn't so unlucky ... I knocked over a box of bits, and in amongst the detritus on the floor I spotted several HAB-related things I thought I'd lost :-)
[10:03] <fsphil> however in order to maintain the luck ratio, all the databases have decided to break here
[10:04] <daveake_> :(
[10:04] <number10> wow daveake did you find cloud 2
[10:04] <fsphil> all fixed now :) well all but one
[10:04] <fsphil> lol
[10:05] <number10> obviously did not see it as I forgot to put the _ on daveake_
[10:06] <fsphil> don't use tab completion?
[10:06] <number10> cheers fsphil - did not know about that - I dont use chat much
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[10:07] <daveake> No, number10, sadly not!
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[10:08] <daveake> But I did find the SIM card holder for my wavecom GSM module, plus the hacked serial adapter for my T39m phone. So now I have 2 choices for an SMS backup tracker :)
[10:09] <number10> have you made payload box yet
[10:09] <daveake> tsk, no, I've got weeks to go :)
[10:09] <number10> lol juat two
[10:09] <number10> just
[10:09] <daveake> But I'll start on that today (or tomorrow, if any customers are watching)
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[10:10] <fsphil> I'm wondering if I should go for the spherical payloads that's been popular lately
[10:11] <daveake> I'm going back to a box for this one, so the camera mounting is easier
[10:11] <fsphil> they might be more stable than the rounded ones
[10:11] <daveake> But I do very much want to make an Apollo capsule sometime
[10:11] <fsphil> they're not terribly aerodynamic
[10:13] <daveake> I had a look at Buzz2's log. max vertical speed 260mph. That's what being round (and high) gets you :)
[10:14] <Randomskk> do you mean horizontal?
[10:14] <daveake> No, that was 270!
[10:15] <Randomskk> it went up at 260mph?
[10:15] <daveake> Down :)
[10:15] <daveake> lol
[10:15] <Randomskk> aaah
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[10:15] <Randomskk> I was thinking up and getting alarmed :P
[10:15] <Randomskk> though that's still pretty speedy!
[10:15] <daveake> Balloon, not rocket :D
[10:16] <gonzo_> that would be an apollo!
[10:16] <daveake> Dunno how reliable the GPS alt is when falling/rolling quickly, but that's what my spreadsheet says
[10:16] <fsphil> it really wanted to get back home
[10:16] <fsphil> it's cold up there
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[10:17] <gonzo_> cold down here today
[10:17] <Randomskk> hmmm only 10.15am
[10:17] <Randomskk> I have the whole day ahead of me for once
[10:17] <Randomskk> I think this might be the first time this week I've been up before noon :P
[10:17] <number10> I see gaga2 will use sphere within a sphere I wonder how much that will help
[10:17] <fsphil> if we made them into a narrow tube, we could put the payload into the balloon
[10:18] <fsphil> man that would spin like crazy
[10:20] <daveake> There's a video on YT where a guy in the USA basically ties the payload to the balloon neck. It did a 360 soon after launch.
[10:20] <daveake> (as in, it got upside down)
[10:20] <fsphil> wasn't that the iphone launch that got into the news?
[10:20] <fsphil> gopro looking out the bottom, antenna inside the balloon
[10:20] <fsphil> what could go wrong :)
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[10:21] <daveake> Don't think so
[10:23] <daveake> You mean this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5PXhDk27QM ?
[10:23] <fsphil> that's the one I'm thinking of
[10:23] <daveake> Yeah, that is it
[10:23] <fsphil> basically no cord
[10:23] <daveake> Nope. The video I saw was their one, and it looped the loop
[10:25] <fsphil> "Launch to Space" .. *cringe*
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[10:48] <costyn> hi guys
[10:48] <costyn> debugging my payload radio stuff
[10:49] <costyn> I've got Upu's test code running on an arduino, strange thing when I only connect the space wire, I get a carrier signal, but when I also connect the mark, it becomes very very noisy and I can hear the rtty faintly in the background; any ideas?
[10:49] <costyn> i've tried switching space and mark around with seemingly the same result
[10:51] <costyn> also if i just connect the mark or the space I get beeping at a single tone (no carrier shift) which is expected, just not sure why it isn't working when I connect both
[10:53] <costyn> ok nevermind I'm an idiot
[10:54] <daveake> This often happens ... you don't spot the blindingly obvious mistake till you tell everyone about it :)
[10:54] <costyn> for some reason my radio was not tuned correctly
[10:54] <costyn> <shame>
[10:54] <daveake> BTDTGTTS
[11:00] <fsphil> yea, lots of people forget to retune :)
[11:00] <fsphil> the frequency is very rarely where you expect it
[11:07] <gonzo_> yep, for a very close TX, you can get all sorts of images and spurious signals
[11:08] <gonzo_> best to disconnect the ant on the rx then tune for the strongest
[11:09] <daveake> This happened to me on my first launch. Thought the transmitter was buggered.
[11:10] <daveake> Receiver was only showing 2 bars and it wasn't decoding. Ended up taking the payload apart to check everything.
[11:12] <daveake> I took the payload apart to check the NTX2, and of course all connections were fine. So I put it back together and launched anyway, relying on the backup SMS tracker.
[11:12] <daveake> Walked home to check online, and was more than a bit surprised to see that Upu was tracking from near 200 miles away!
[11:14] <gonzo_> it's poss that there could be low power spurs on the tx, but most probably it's an image of the rx. Makes it worse then that different RX will have different image responses
[11:14] <gonzo_> I see it a lot on the spctral display on my rig
[11:14] <daveake> I figured it was an inverted image, hence the lack of decode.
[11:15] <gonzo_> you can see a signal, tune to it but the radio 2nd IF won't tune it.
[11:15] <daveake> Definitely one to remember when launching.
[11:15] <gonzo_> yep, take the ant off just to check.
[11:16] <gonzo_> That also gives some confidence that the tx is actually putting out the correct power
[11:16] <gonzo_> if you can compare to a previous known signal level with the ant off
[11:18] <costyn> the carrier shift is determined by the resistors used on the ntx right?
[11:18] <costyn> baud rate by the delay between mark and space
[11:19] <daveake> And the o/p voltage from the processor pins
[11:19] <daveake> baud rate yes
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[11:54] <cuddykid> interesting stats on sparkfun
[11:55] <fsphil> 6.5 million solves
[11:55] <fsphil> nice
[11:55] <cuddykid> love how they took down a site lol
[11:59] <fsphil> 1.2Gb/s at peak
[11:59] <daveake> wow
[12:00] <cuddykid> a cool idea using the geiger counter :P
[12:00] <fsphil> only if you won lol
[12:00] <daveake> lol
[12:01] <WillDuckworth> what did you go for cuddykid?
[12:01] <BrainDamage> target sparkfun location with a dirty bomb, and highly increase your chance to win since you know when the count will ramp up
[12:02] <cuddykid> WillDuckworth: a lot of smaller bits and pieces: altogether something like 34 things coming! Got 2 sets of atmega328 chips (and other bits required for them), dust particle detector, serial terminal display, flux, superbright leds, push button switches!
[12:02] <cuddykid> :P
[12:02] <WillDuckworth> awesome - i kept trying but laptop ran out of battery
[12:03] <WillDuckworth> so gave up
[12:03] <cuddykid> ahh :(
[12:03] <cuddykid> I had almost given up - just went back on after a break from it and typed about 50 then won
[12:04] <cuddykid> last place the parcel checked in was Denver
[12:06] <zyp> I haven't decided what to get yet
[12:06] <cuddykid> took me about 2hrs to decide what I really needed
[12:06] <zyp> at the moment I don't need anythingfrom them in particular
[12:06] <cuddykid> managed to get the basket up to $99.80
[12:06] Action: fsphil is after steppers
[12:06] <zyp> and I'm not buying anything just to buy it
[12:06] <zyp> not yet at least
[12:06] <cuddykid> yeah
[12:07] <fsphil> is it worth getting a stepper driver? or are they easy enough to build from scratch?
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[12:14] <BrainDamage> a stepper driver is basically an H bridge
[12:14] <BrainDamage> rest is easily done with a microcontroller
[12:15] <BrainDamage> L298 comes to mind
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[12:23] <fsphil> ooh I've got one of those
[12:23] <fsphil> well, I may have destroyed it
[12:23] <fsphil> not sure
[12:23] <fsphil> what the smell came from
[12:24] <Laurenceb> lol
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[12:27] <NigelMoby> sorry that was my feet :p
[12:29] <cuddykid> was planning to put a 9v lithium battery to power cutdown - until I saw the price was £9!
[12:29] <cuddykid> I guess 2 or 3 AAs should provide enough juice
[12:30] <NigelMoby> heh
[12:30] <cuddykid> HABing is certainly one expensive hobby! :P
[12:31] <gonzo_> cheap compared to many
[12:34] <fsphil> my two hobbies are astronomy and amateur radio. I had to pick the expensive ones
[12:34] <fsphil> then I got into hab'ing :p
[12:34] <SamSilver> daveake: ?? > 12:55] <daveake> BTDTGTTS ??
[12:34] <daveake> Been There Done That Got The T-Shirt
[12:34] <cuddykid> lol
[12:34] <SamSilver> lol
[12:34] <fsphil> I was wondering, didn't want to ask :)
[12:35] <daveake> :)
[12:35] <daveake> One of my hobbies is (well, was - can't afford it any more ;) ) track day driving
[12:35] <daveake> HAB is cheap compared to that :)
[12:35] <fsphil> ooh now that sounds like fun
[12:36] <cuddykid> indeed
[12:36] <daveake> http://users.bookatrack.com/-PC?daveake&1301&640&9016
[12:38] <cuddykid> nice
[12:38] <fsphil> dave!
[12:38] <fsphil> that you?
[12:39] <daveake> Well the plate matches my initials, so it must be :p
[12:39] <fsphil> never know with photoshop these days :p
[12:39] <daveake> LOL
[12:40] <daveake> It's a crap chase car ... nowhere for a magmount aerial :)
[12:40] <cuddykid> lol
[12:40] <cuddykid> that reminds me - I need to order one of those
[12:41] <daveake> Elise or magmount? :D
[12:41] <cuddykid> certainly better than having to pull over every few hundred meters to get out the yagi
[12:41] <cuddykid> magmount :P
[12:41] <NigelMoby> both
[12:41] <cuddykid> haha
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[12:42] <NigelMoby> matchbox version lol
[12:43] <fsphil> haha
[12:43] <fsphil> my clio does the job
[12:43] <fsphil> at the moment
[12:44] <daveake> Oh yeah, my Pug is back on the road. Found the unobtanium part via the owner's club.
[12:45] <gonzo_> you only have to compare our hobbies to something like golf
[12:46] <gonzo_> hobbies are only as expensive as you make them
[12:46] <fsphil> at the start
[12:47] <fsphil> then they suck you in
[12:48] <daveake> The 6 stages of HAB expenditure :)
[12:49] <fsphil> aaarg, the steppers are out of stock. damn you free day! *waves fist*
[12:49] <daveake> lol
[12:52] <daveake> Ah, cool, pico-habbing balloons have arrived :)
[12:53] <fsphil> sweet
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[12:57] <fsphil> what all are you putting on it?
[12:57] <daveake> Plan is FSA03+Arduino Mini Pro + RFM22 + AAA w/ step-up
[12:58] <daveake> + SCP1000 probably
[12:58] <Laurenceb> try an antenova
[12:59] <Laurenceb> its 1.1grams !
[13:00] <daveake> Yeah, I probably will :)
[13:01] <fsphil> any lighter and you won't need a balloon
[13:01] <Laurenceb> http://www.rfsolutions.co.uk/acatalog/info_GPS_41SMDR.html
[13:01] <Laurenceb> thats actually quite nice iirc
[13:02] <Laurenceb> its arm+front end digitizer
[13:02] <Laurenceb> now if you could liberate the firmware....
[13:02] <BrainDamage> I wonder how long until you'll start milling the pcb substrate
[13:02] <BrainDamage> so it's empty inside
[13:02] <fsphil> yea, wire the gps direct to the radio module
[13:03] <fsphil> forget the arduino
[13:03] <fsphil> doubt it would be easy to reprogram them
[13:03] <Darkside> start writing out owm firmware for the ublox modules
[13:03] <Darkside> lol
[13:03] <Darkside> our*
[13:03] <Darkside> to make it do the RTTY stuff
[13:04] <fsphil> exactly
[13:04] <fsphil> how cool would that be
[13:04] <fsphil> they've more than enough poke to do it
[13:05] <SpeedEvil> Also a good source of funding - selling delimited modules. :)
[13:06] <NigelMoby> mm there's a thought
[13:06] <Laurenceb> the rfsolutions ones are actually some of the lowest power ones
[13:06] <fsphil> wonder if the galileo system will have the same limits
[13:06] <Darkside> modules that don't have any restrictions :-)
[13:06] <Laurenceb> mine averaged 14ma
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[13:14] <UpuWork> yay another strike for our wonderful country, they can't get the Raspberry PI's made in the UK because the tax makes it too much to be viable
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[13:19] <cuddykid> :(
[13:19] <LazyLeopard> Ho hum...
[13:20] <cuddykid> connecting up in parallel boosts current right?
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[13:21] <WillDuckworth> 2nd Darkside - would be nice to bypass all the gps cocom stuff too
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[13:23] <SamSilver> cuddykid: yip
[13:23] <SamSilver> batts right
[13:24] <cuddykid> smokey - connected up my 6aa lithiums to a tiny bit of nichrome - instantly burnt through paper :P
[13:24] <cuddykid> SamSilver: yup, thanks :)
[13:26] <cuddykid> how many batteries did most people go with for cutdown?
[13:27] <fsphil> hackaday's gone to hell: http://hackaday.com/2012/01/12/hellduino-hellschreiber-radio-transmissions-from-an-arduino-board/
[13:29] <SpeedEvil> cuddykid: 0
[13:32] <UpuWork> lol
[13:32] <UpuWork> Didn't 'we' do that one already ?
[13:34] <WillDuckworth> so 2011
[13:34] <cuddykid> lol
[13:34] <daveake> lol
[13:35] <cuddykid> argg - connected 2 aa's up in parallel - no where near enough juice for nichrome
[13:36] <daveake> Not having a good connection week are we? :p
[13:36] <Darkside> cuddykid: you havent got the voltage
[13:36] <cuddykid> daveake: not at all
[13:36] <cuddykid> Darkside: I thought it was all about the current?
[13:36] <Darkside> you want a certain power dissipation in the wire
[13:37] <Darkside> P = V^2 / R
[13:37] <cuddykid> ahh
[13:37] <cuddykid> Darkside: would it be better in series?
[13:38] <Darkside> you could try
[13:39] <daveake> You need to match the voltage with the wire resistance, so it heats up enough but not so much it goes red
[13:39] <daveake> IIRC I had about 1A into 4 ohms, wire length around 30mm
[13:40] <Darkside> so 4v or so
[13:40] <Darkside> 3 AAs?
[13:40] <daveake> Resistance depends on length and the wire gauge of course
[13:40] <daveake> Yep
[13:40] <cuddykid> just measured the resistance of mine - comes out about 1ohm
[13:41] <Darkside> the voltage across the batteries will drop under load too
[13:41] <daveake> OK, so 2 batteries will give you around 2.5-3V under load, so that's 5 watts or so. Should get nicely warm :)
[13:42] <cuddykid> I'll connect them up in serial and give them a go :D
[13:45] <cuddykid> yeah, that's quite toasty :P
[13:46] <cuddykid> not glowing red though - just melting plastic
[13:46] <daveake> Thought it might be D:
[13:46] <fsphil> how thick is the wire?
[13:46] <cuddykid> fsphil: I think it's about 1mm - very thin
[13:46] <daveake> 1mm is quite thick for nichrome
[13:46] <fsphil> yea
[13:47] <fsphil> should be thinner
[13:47] <fsphil> hair thin
[13:47] <daveake> If you run it hot (and I think you are) it'll cut quicker but will fail eventually
[13:48] <cuddykid> ahh it's not hair thin :(
[13:48] <cuddykid> daveake: why would it fail?
[13:48] <Darkside> get too hot and melt
[13:49] <cuddykid> oh - but all I need it to do is cut the cord once? I can replace the nichrome after the flight
[13:49] <daveake> True
[13:50] <cuddykid> I'm just wondering if it's getting hot enough - because it's going to be freezing up there
[13:50] <gonzo_> the amsat people often use a metal film R to cut the nylon wire that holds their antennas in the stowage containers
[13:51] <gonzo_> being a space application, there is probably lots of test and reliability data on the method
[13:51] <gonzo_> especially in zero atmosphere
[13:51] <daveake> I had a play with using resistors. Take longer to get hot because of the mass, but they do work
[13:53] <gonzo_> they have antennamade from steel tape measure, wound up in a plexiglass box. Then the lid is held down with a bit of nylon cord passed over the resistor
[13:53] <cuddykid> going to test with nylon now
[13:53] <gonzo_> only a thin bit of cord though
[13:54] <cuddykid> nice - worked :D
[13:54] <fsphil> cut-downs are great
[13:55] <cuddykid> now I've got stringy nylon all over the table
[13:55] <fsphil> my next yorkshire adventure will have one
[13:55] <cuddykid> nylon has stuck itself to the nichrome lol
[13:56] <fsphil> will the nichrome survive the cord twisting?
[13:56] <cuddykid> ooo. good point - I'm going to let the cutdown twist with the cord
[13:57] <cuddykid> I'll duct tape it on
[13:57] <daveake> So do people use a relatively short line from chute to payload, to avoid have very long wires to the cutdown?
[13:58] <fsphil> you could roll up the chute cord, keep it near the payload
[13:58] <daveake> A nichrome cutdown is going to have >=1A going through it and not many volts, so we don't want much of a voltage drop.
[13:59] <gonzo_> you have a separate batt for the cutdown?
[13:59] <fsphil> when the main cord is cut, it shuld unwind
[13:59] <SpeedEvil> A seperate battery is good - it means that if the cutdownwire draws more current than expected, it doesn't reset the main peocessor
[13:59] <daveake> ^^^ happened to me :)
[13:59] <daveake> fsphil that's an interesting thought
[13:59] <SpeedEvil> and perhaps terminate the cutdown pulse early
[14:00] <daveake> In my case it did cut through the nylon. Mind you, the whole thing was in the back of the car at the time, and it was the timeout that triggered the cutdown :p
[14:01] <SpeedEvil> :)
[14:01] <WillDuckworth> with cutdowns and an inline parachute - should the wire go 'through' or bypass it?
[14:01] <WillDuckworth> just thinking about tangles
[14:01] <WillDuckworth> or not have an inline parachute
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[14:08] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[14:09] <fsphil> not sure how inline chutes and cut-downs can co-exist
[14:09] <fsphil> hiya Lunar_Lander
[14:09] <WillDuckworth> cheers fsphil - as i thought
[14:09] <SpeedEvil> parachute dangling down below payload
[14:09] Action: Laurenceb rages at gnuplot
[14:10] <gonzo_> would be interesting, as the payload would change orientation after burst
[14:10] <Laurenceb> how do i set colourbox legend in pm3d?
[14:10] <gonzo_> be interesting for cams, see the balloon on the way up and the earth on way down
[14:10] <gonzo_> poss cauge pattern issues on the telem antennas though
[14:11] <fsphil> would be safer for landing, if the antenna ended up on the top
[14:11] <gonzo_> using a GP ant, the radioation would be going the wrong way on the way up/down
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[14:12] <gonzo_> just to add complication, what if you had a small balloon above the chuet, that would not burst, then put the ant up the chute line
[14:13] <gonzo_> so when it lands the chute/antenna was a few feet above the ground (with luck)
[14:13] <fsphil> that might work
[14:14] <fsphil> though it'll get very big too
[14:14] <fsphil> and will be bouncing against the main cord
[14:14] <SpeedEvil> Tangling is annoying
[14:14] <SpeedEvil> I keep coming up with clever schemes for the above, then realise they don't work
[14:15] <fsphil> if we could ensure a clean burst, the best place for the chute would be in the balloon
[14:15] <Laurenceb> i used a pole
[14:15] <fsphil> that would work too
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[14:26] <SpeedEvil> That only works for bursts over poland.
[14:27] <Laurenceb> lol
[14:28] <x-f> daveake had an interesting setup for Buzz with cutdown being inside the payload box - no long wires
[14:29] <SpeedEvil> Lasers.
[14:29] <SpeedEvil> Clearly the right answer.
[14:29] <gonzo__> dynamite
[14:29] <SpeedEvil> Fill the balloon with H2+10% O2
[14:29] <BrainDamage> fsphil: fracture lines?
[14:29] <SpeedEvil> On a semi-serious note.
[14:29] <SpeedEvil> That should couple _really_ well to the atmosphere at altitude.
[14:30] <SpeedEvil> I do wonder how big an area it could be heard over.
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[14:31] <nosebleedkt_> Hi all
[14:31] <x-f> launch at night - observe your own supernova
[14:32] <gonzo__> actually , putting a small gunpowder charge in the cord could work. A sort of sloy burning squib
[14:32] <daveake> More imagination needed ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=GOMIBdM6N7Q#!
[14:34] <SparxEtch> I would love to do a laugh at night
[14:35] <SparxEtch> ....launch, rather
[14:37] <cuddykid> I can't see why an inline chute with cutdown wouldn't work - feeding lines through the hole at the top of the chute?
[14:38] <cuddykid> I guess tangling is a risk though
[14:38] <cuddykid> hmm
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[16:03] <cuddykid> new checklist page - http://habexperiments.wordpress.com/checklist/
[16:04] <arcanescu> anyone here familiar with M0DTS's usbtx program? im trying to figure out the baudrate its working at without luck
[16:06] <fsphil-laptop> nope but I'd love to try it some day
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[16:09] <arcanescu> hmmm :) maybe you can
[16:09] <fsphil-laptop> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Phatlight-PT-54-12W-Red-LED-Heatsink-Optics-TEC-/170702785474
[16:09] <fsphil-laptop> sweeeet
[16:11] <fsphil-laptop> I don't have the hardware needed to do dvb
[16:11] <fsphil-laptop> it's been to expensive until recently
[16:11] <fsphil-laptop> even now it's not easy
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[16:12] <arcanescu> www.m0dts.co.uk/datv_new.htm....
[16:12] <arcanescu> thats what this is for
[16:12] <arcanescu> removing the expensive hardware
[16:15] <arcanescu> have you seen the digilite project?
[16:16] <fsphil-laptop> only a bit, watched a video on it
[16:17] <arcanescu> aah okay do have a look at that it should help
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[16:19] <cuddykid> damn - a wire just fell off the keychain cam :(
[16:19] <cuddykid> fsphil-laptop: was it you who has the pic on flickr of the wiring of keychain cam?
[16:21] <daveake> http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveake/6124549456/in/set-72157627579944313 and http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveake/6124001605/in/set-72157627579944313
[16:21] <fsphil-laptop> that was daveake
[16:44] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/CxI4N.png
[16:44] <Laurenceb> 3 axis accel on a car, spectrum on each axis goes to red, green, blue
[16:47] <SpeedEvil> x=lr?
[16:48] <Laurenceb> lr?
[16:48] <SpeedEvil> left-right
[16:48] <Laurenceb> oh - im not sure :P
[16:48] <Laurenceb> yeah maybe
[16:49] <Laurenceb> i didnt label it :(
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[16:49] <Laurenceb> i need a way to increase colour depth in png export
[16:54] <cuddykid> cheers daveake fsphil-laptop
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[17:11] <x-f> ugh, suddenly 15 cm of snow
[17:12] <arcanescu> give us some
[17:12] <arcanescu> its a nice summer day here in winter
[17:14] <nosebleedkt> oooooo
[17:14] <nosebleedkt> http://www.linuxinside.gr/%CF%84%CE%B5%CF%8D%CF%87%CE%B7/linux-inside-7-%CF%80%CE%AC%CE%BC%CE%B5-%CF%83%CF%84%CE%BF-%CE%B4%CE%B9%CE%AC%CF%83%CF%84%CE%B7%CE%BC%CE%B1
[17:14] <nosebleedkt> google translate
[17:14] <nosebleedkt> its dedicate to high altitude ballooning
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[17:14] <nosebleedkt> hope greeks get used to it :)
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[17:16] <x-f> arcanescu, where is that?
[17:17] <fsphil> we're finally getting cold weather again here (NI)
[17:17] <fsphil> we really haven't had winter yet
[17:18] <x-f> we neither until yesterday
[17:18] <arcanescu> x-f: manchester
[17:18] <fsphil> sweet, that's not a huge distance
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[17:20] <x-f> last here around this time we had -20..-30 temps, this year it's above zero all the time until now :]
[17:20] <arcanescu> x-f: its strange for this time of the year
[17:20] <arcanescu> and we had snow last time
[17:20] <fsphil> last two winters where incredibly cold, all the lakes froze over
[17:20] <fsphil> this one so far is too warm
[17:20] <arcanescu> no sign of snow at all .... global warming just when i was starting to beleive its all nonsense
[17:20] Action: fsphil wants snow!
[17:21] <arcanescu> me tooo phil
[17:21] <fsphil> better walk the doggie before he goes into cute overdrive
[17:21] <fsphil> giving me the sad eyes look
[17:23] <SpeedEvil> I'm all snowed out.
[17:24] <SpeedEvil> Based on last years weather, we should have 2 warm years to average it out.
[17:26] <Laurenceb> imagesc is annoying
[17:26] <Laurenceb> it sets pixel coordinates as integers
[17:27] <Laurenceb> so you cant chage x/y axes
[17:30] <Laurenceb> nvm
[17:30] <Laurenceb> rtfm :P
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[18:33] <cuddykid> soldered up most of the cutdown module :D
[18:36] <x-f> you could update your blog more frequently :)
[18:36] <x-f> and include pics!
[18:36] <cuddykid> yeah lol - 3 updates - july and jan lol
[18:36] <cuddykid> I've got a few on flickr
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[18:39] <cuddykid> Hi Will
[18:41] <cuddykid> WillDuckworth: how are you wiring up your cutdown? Through chute? - I think for mine I'm going to attach the parachute to the top of the payload box however let it hang below on ascent
[18:43] <WillDuckworth> hiya
[18:44] <WillDuckworth> keep mulling it over. had a duff cutdown (amongst other things) on previous flight through the 'chute
[18:44] <WillDuckworth> but it got all tangled....
[18:45] <cuddykid> yeah - I don't want to risk it! Worst case - chute doesn't open properly and it comes hurtling down to earth lo
[18:45] <cuddykid> *lol
[18:45] <WillDuckworth> so think will do what you're saying i reckon and keep the chute separate
[18:45] <WillDuckworth> yep
[18:45] <WillDuckworth> going pyro cutdown
[18:46] <cuddykid> nice
[18:46] <cuddykid> I'm also u
[18:46] <cuddykid> *mulling......
[18:46] <cuddykid> over whether to have 2 cutdowns
[18:46] <WillDuckworth> tested the other day - v loud!
[18:47] <cuddykid> 1 as a test below the payload, in case the conditions aren't met for the other cutdown
[18:47] <cuddykid> lol
[18:47] <WillDuckworth> cool
[18:48] <WillDuckworth> have you done any simulations?
[18:48] <cuddykid> I'd rather not have to fire the main one say at 30km if it could go higher
[18:48] <cuddykid> did one earlier - worked quite well
[18:48] <WillDuckworth> good stuff :)
[18:48] <cuddykid> my concern is whether it will heat up enough because it's so chilly up there :P
[18:49] <NickB1> cuddykid, have you used the GPS Simulator?
[18:49] <cuddykid> NickB1: nope
[18:50] <cuddykid> lassen is fine with the alt :) for the glider project I'm working on, I'll run that gps under simulation to see if it needs to be rebooted when it falls below 18km
[18:51] <NickB1> also using the lassen
[18:51] <NickB1> had some bugs parsing the nmea
[18:51] <NickB1> rewrote everything now
[18:52] <NickB1> wanted to test everything with the gps simulator they mention on ukhas
[18:52] <NickB1> but cant get it to work
[18:52] <cuddykid> NickB1: I'm using the tinygps library - works great
[18:53] <cuddykid> yeah, I've never used the simulator
[18:53] <NickB1> yeah discovered tinygps a bit to late :)
[18:53] <NickB1> but ill give it a try also
[18:54] <cuddykid> problems with lassen: can be funny with getting a lock (takes a while sometimes) & sensitive to Gs - but, having said that, worked great on my last flight
[18:55] <NickB1> did you give it battery backup ?
[18:55] <cuddykid> nah, just powered it from arduino
[18:56] <NickB1> ah ok
[18:57] <NickB1> locks are always within one minut with the battery backup (indoors)
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[18:59] <cuddykid> NickB1: you got a lock indoors?! :O I've never managed that
[18:59] <cuddykid> sounds like you're working wonders with the lassen!
[19:01] <NickB1> yeah it manages tot do that :)
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[19:02] <NickB1> I think its because of the battery backup
[19:02] <NickB1> it needs some data (forgot the name) before it can lock
[19:02] <NickB1> and the battery backup keeps that data stored
[19:02] <cuddykid> ahh
[19:02] <cuddykid> yeah, probably
[19:03] <daveake_> almanac
[19:03] <NickB1> thats it ;)
[19:04] <cuddykid> Oooooo& just got an email from spark fun saying congrats for winning and that I haven't used my promo code yet?! Wonder if I can use it again :P
[19:04] <fsphil-laptop> worth a try ;)
[19:04] <cuddykid> indeedy
[19:05] <fsphil-laptop> everything I want from them is out of stock
[19:05] <WillDuckworth> stop rubbing it in cuddykid
[19:05] <cuddykid> lol WillDuckworth
[19:06] <WillDuckworth> did you go for a 9DoF
[19:06] <fsphil-laptop> the per-country stats where interesting
[19:06] <cuddykid> not in the end as I've just purchased an APM2 with IMU stuff on :)
[19:06] <WillDuckworth> cool
[19:06] <fsphil-laptop> only 41 people in the UK won
[19:06] <cuddykid> no luck - already used
[19:07] <daveake_> I'll send you my order then cuddykid ;)
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[19:07] <cuddykid> haha daveake_
[19:08] <fsphil-laptop> I gfo
[19:08] <fsphil-laptop> er
[19:08] <fsphil-laptop> I got free stuff last time, so I can't complain :)
[19:08] <cuddykid> still had to pay shipping on all of the stuff which was £20 - then customs will probably slap a ~£10 bill on top
[19:08] <fsphil-laptop> seen an advert for a "cheap" dvb-t modulator... googled for a price, £930
[19:19] <costyn> hmph... i connected the ground to pin 3 on the DS18B20 instead of the pin 1, now both of them are reporting 85 degrees C (correctly wired up this time); did I fry them?
[19:26] <navrac> possibly not - you can also get that value if they are misadressed IIRC
[19:28] <costyn> hmmm found a forum post where it says: The sensor returns 85/185 at startup if it has not had a chance to do a complete convert_t by the time you read_t on it. My guess is its either shorting out somewhere and resetting or not getting enough juice to handle the convert_t.
[19:29] <costyn> so I'm probably fudging my wiring again, although it doesn't get much simpler than the 1-wire bus
[19:29] <joph> fsphil-laptop, nice price :D
[19:29] <joph> i'll buy 3
[19:31] <fsphil-laptop> yay
[19:32] <fsphil-laptop> donate one to me? :)
[19:38] <cuddykid> costyn: I get readings of 85C about once every 15 or so - I think it's because the library doesn't give enough delay when polling the sensors
[19:38] <cuddykid> costyn: I just wrote a bit of code in to ignore 85C readings :)
[19:41] <costyn> cuddykid: hmm it's really annoying because I had this all this already working, now when I try to put it all together stuff ends up not working. and then I isolate bits and use the code examples, what worked fool[proof first time round and now can't get it working
[19:41] <costyn> cuddykid: and I get only 85C readings at the moment :(
[19:42] <costyn> cuddykid: I've tried putting in a delay; doesn'tmake much difference
[19:43] <costyn> parasite power worked before, now neither parasite power nor dedicated vcc seems to give any result.
[19:48] Topic changed on #highaltitude by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders etc) www.ukhas.org.uk
[19:48] <costyn> hmmm I found some other documentation which has a slightly different wiring
[19:49] <costyn> now i'ts working again praise baby jezus :P
[19:50] <costyn> now to document the crap out of it, for next time...
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[19:58] <cuddykid> costyn: brilliant :D
[19:59] <cuddykid> yeah - I've started documenting everything - If I ever lose a payload (bound to happen) I will be right back to square 1 with most stuff as the main flight comp was built a couple of years ago!
[20:02] <fsphil-laptop> I should probably document more
[20:03] <fsphil-laptop> but there's always some triviality that needs attention ;)
[20:04] <daveake_> Yeah, like the magic mix of resistor values to get 425Hz :). Must get round to writing that one down!
[20:05] <fsphil-laptop> looking forward to finding out the resistor combo I need for swift. smd resistors :)
[20:05] <daveake_> So I bought some foam polystyrene sheets for this payload. It would have helped if the supplier had actually cut them properly! They're not exactly rectangular...
[20:05] <fsphil-laptop> hot wire cutter can sort that out
[20:06] <daveake_> Yeah, it's fixed
[20:06] <fsphil-laptop> I use a saw but the finish is horrible
[20:06] <daveake_> I marked off a square to cut, but because I assumed the corner was 90 degrees it wasn't square!
[20:06] <fsphil-laptop> lol
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[20:07] <daveake_> I have a hot wire table cutter. Much easier to cut a straight edge thana hand cutter
[20:07] <fsphil-laptop> mate of mine built one, gonna steal his
[20:07] <daveake_> :)
[20:08] <daveake_> You'll be pleased to know that the wiring for this payload is a whole lot neater than my first one :)
[20:09] <daveake_> That was an embarassing mess :p
[20:09] <fsphil-laptop> brain surgery was simple compared to that
[20:09] <daveake_> lol
[20:09] <fsphil-laptop> it looked like Commander Data's head
[20:10] <daveake_> Lots of positronic conduits
[20:17] <costyn> are you guys deadbugging your payloads or sticking stuff onto proto-boards?
[20:19] <fsphil-laptop> I've got a simple payload setup on bread board
[20:20] <fsphil-laptop> playing with the radio atm
[20:26] <costyn> for some reason my temp probe test code works prefectly but not when it's included in the real thing meh
[20:26] <costyn> and my payload string is not being constructed,probably some sprintf voodoo
[20:31] <fsphil-laptop> what's it doing?
[20:31] <fsphil-laptop> (sprintf)
[20:31] <costyn> fsphil-laptop: only printing out the loop counter : $$HYPERION,2,,*514A
[20:32] <costyn> other values, which print out fine in a println don't show up
[20:32] <fsphil-laptop> what's the printf line look like?
[20:33] <costyn> at the moment I've reduced it to: snprintf(s, sizeof(s), "$$HYPER,%i,%s,%s", loopcounter, b_pressure, tempC1 );
[20:33] <fsphil-laptop> b_pressure and tempC1 are strings?
[20:33] <costyn> ehhh
[20:33] <costyn> tempc1 is a float
[20:34] <daveake_> eh???
[20:34] <fsphil-laptop> %s is telling printf to expect a string
[20:34] <costyn> ah... guess there's my problem
[20:34] <fsphil-laptop> you'll have problems with floats though
[20:34] <daveake_> Yep
[20:34] <fsphil-laptop> the printf on avr doesn't handle floats without adding extra compile options
[20:34] <costyn> i see
[20:34] <daveake_> Or use dtostr to build a string then use that as the variable in sprintf
[20:34] <fsphil-laptop> there is a function to create a string from a float though
[20:35] <fsphil-laptop> that's it
[20:35] <costyn> seems to work fine in my temp test code
[20:35] <fsphil-laptop> you where not using printf for that though
[20:35] <daveake_> dtostrf - http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php?topic=85523.0
[20:35] <costyn> well i don't really care if they're strings... i can add %d of %f ?
[20:36] <fsphil-laptop> %f is what you want, but it won't work
[20:36] <daveake_> %f doesn't work without some waving the correct magic wand at the compiler
[20:36] <fsphil-laptop> adding the float stuff adds a huge amount of code, not worth it
[20:36] <fsphil-laptop> the dtostrf function is probably your best bet
[20:37] <costyn> so why does this code work perfectly? http://pastebin.com/bLTysSe9
[20:37] <fsphil-laptop> tha'ts not using printf
[20:37] <costyn> uses lots of floats without seemingly much magick
[20:37] <costyn> hmmm ok
[20:37] <costyn> so it's floats with printf thats the problem then?
[20:38] <fsphil-laptop> technically your problem is using %s for a float value
[20:38] <fsphil-laptop> but the solution won't work for you either :)
[20:38] <fsphil-laptop> make a second variable, a short string
[20:38] <fsphil-laptop> and use dtostrf to make your float into a string
[20:38] <fsphil-laptop> then print the string
[20:39] <fsphil-laptop> or, you could do some maths and convert it into two integers
[20:39] <costyn> ok... what about just chopping off the digits behind the decimal. i odn't need that precise temperature measurements anyway
[20:39] <fsphil-laptop> that's very easy
[20:39] <fsphil-laptop> just use %i to tell printf to expect an integer
[20:39] <fsphil-laptop> and cast the float
[20:39] <costyn> think i'll do that then
[20:39] <daveake_> two integers .... but don't do it wrong like wot i did (twice)
[20:39] <costyn> ok cool lemme try that. thanks!
[20:40] <fsphil-laptop> remember to cast the float to int though, or it'll complain
[20:40] <fsphil-laptop> yea the two integer method has a couple of gotchas
[20:40] <daveake_> My temperatures I store as ints as I don't need the extra precision
[20:40] <fsphil-laptop> I'll probably do the same
[20:40] <fsphil-laptop> I've never used a temp sensor before
[20:42] <daveake_> If you have 1 degree resolution, you can set the DS18x20 to a lowish resolution in which case they return values much quicker than at their highest resolution
[20:42] <costyn> daveake_: good to know
[20:42] <daveake_> They take about a second I think worst case.
[20:43] <daveake_> Check the datasheet; I don't remember the exact numbers
[20:44] <mattltm> Ping SpeedEvil
[20:45] <SpeedEvil> ?
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[20:47] <mattltm> I need some advice on PV. You then man?
[20:48] <mattltm> s/then/the
[20:48] <fsphil-laptop> radio 1 is nuts tonight
[20:50] <SpeedEvil> mattltm: debatably. I've been doing a fair bit on it
[20:50] <SpeedEvil> fsphil-laptop: in a good, or a bad way?
[20:50] <fsphil-laptop> SpeedEvil, well I'm enjoying it. so good :)
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[20:52] <mattltm> SpeedEvil: I want to build a simple 12v system. Panel, deep cycle batt and a charge controler. Any recomendations?
[20:52] <SpeedEvil> What for?
[20:53] <mattltm> To start off, I want to use it to power my garden irrigation pumps. Then maybe look at moving the house lighting over to 12v
[20:53] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/80w-solar-panel-PV-12V-80-Watts-/290478338684?pt=UK_Gadgets&hash=item43a1dbb27c - for example (this is overpriced, 115 is the going rate shipped), in parallel with the battery, and a shunt controller.
[20:54] <SpeedEvil> This will produce (in december) maybe 50-60Wh/day
[20:54] <SpeedEvil> 40Wh or so after charge/discharge efficiency
[20:55] <SpeedEvil> Oh - I missed this has a charge controller
[20:55] <Laurenceb_> i just had an idea for micro actuators use refridgerant in a sealed blister or something then a heater to control the pressure
[20:55] <SpeedEvil> there are braille displays like that
[20:56] <Laurenceb_> interesting
[20:56] <mattltm> So 40Wh per day
[20:56] <Laurenceb_> i was thinking for uav
[20:56] <Laurenceb_> R11 and R123 are a pita to source :(
[20:56] <SpeedEvil> http://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/pvgis/apps4/pvest.php
[20:56] <SpeedEvil> butane
[20:56] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[20:56] <SpeedEvil> ^solar calculator
[20:57] <Laurenceb_> problem with butane is it takes a lot of pressure
[20:57] <SpeedEvil> not that much
[20:57] <Laurenceb_> i was thinking aluminsed kapton
[20:57] <Laurenceb_> blisters
[20:57] <mattltm> Ahh, just what I was looking for. Trying to work out what I need to recharge a 110Ah battery.
[20:57] Action: Laurenceb_ fires up wolfram alpha
[20:58] <SpeedEvil> http://www.pvoutput.org/list.jsp?id=3744&sid=2940
[20:58] <fsphil-laptop> going off-grid mattltm?
[20:58] <SpeedEvil> Daily generation over the last few weeks from an installation in Dundee.
[20:58] <SpeedEvil> In order to charge a 1kWh battery in one day, you need a solar panel producing 1kWh. (ish)
[20:59] <SpeedEvil> Worst case day this month, that would be a 26kW solar panel.
[20:59] <Laurenceb_> heh
[20:59] <mattltm> fsphil-laptop: I want to have a play with it :)
[20:59] <fsphil-laptop> I did the same, only without the batteries
[20:59] <SpeedEvil> A medium day this month - you're looking more like 1.5kW
[20:59] <SpeedEvil> oops - I forgot charge inefficiency.
[21:00] <fsphil-laptop> it's expensive but fun :)
[21:00] <SpeedEvil> 35kW and 2kW
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[21:01] <mattltm> so I need 1.32Kw to fully charge a 110amp batttery
[21:02] <SpeedEvil> kWh, yes.
[21:02] <costyn> fsphil-laptop: can you tell me what I'm doing wrong? n=sprintf (superbuffer, "$$HYPERION,%d,%02d:%02d:%02d,%s,%s,%i,%i,%i,%i,%i", loopcounter, hour, minute, second, latbuf, lonbuf, ialt, numbersats, b_pressure, int(tempC1), int(tempC2) );
[21:02] <SpeedEvil> Well - no
[21:02] <SpeedEvil> you need about 1.3* that, the charge/discharge efficiency
[21:02] <SpeedEvil> so say 1.7kWh
[21:02] <costyn> fsphil-laptop: the variable contains: $$HYPERION,1,00:00:00,0,0,0,0,0,-28051,1
[21:03] <fsphil-laptop> int(temp)
[21:03] <Laurenceb_> i guess you could have blister pack with micro peltier module connected
[21:03] <fsphil-laptop> try (int) temp
[21:03] <mattltm> So "very simplisticly" if I work out how many hours of daylight we have and devide by 1.7 that should give me the correct panel size?
[21:03] <Laurenceb_> and something to obsorb the liquid butane
[21:03] <SpeedEvil> mattltm: not really. Angle is important.
[21:04] <mattltm> Thats what she said :p
[21:04] <fsphil-laptop> my setup doesn't have nearly a good enough angle
[21:04] <SpeedEvil> http://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/pvgis/apps4/pvest.php is good
[21:04] <SpeedEvil> click where you are on the map.
[21:04] <mattltm> Sorry, couldn't resist :)
[21:04] <fsphil-laptop> or full view of the sun each day
[21:04] <costyn> fsphil-laptop: not sure whre it's getting that -28051 either... lemme try (int)
[21:04] <SpeedEvil> Select 'climate-SAF' in the radiation database (this is fairly unimportant)
[21:04] <fsphil-laptop> it's possibly converting the float data to int without any adjustment
[21:04] <fsphil-laptop> I've not seen int() before tbh
[21:05] <mattltm> SpeedEvil: Im confused and intimidated by that tool :(
[21:05] <SpeedEvil> If you are free to orient the panel as you like - select 'optimise slope' and 'optimise azimuth'
[21:05] <SpeedEvil> then click 'show graphs' and 'calculate' and then that's it
[21:05] <costyn> fsphil-laptop: no difference unfortunately
[21:05] <mattltm> lol, ok :)
[21:06] <SpeedEvil> Ed is the average per-day electricity production
[21:06] <costyn> fsphil-laptop: that wonky -28051 does change with the b_pressure (which I'm printing out earlier), so somehow it's doing some weird stuff with it
[21:06] <SpeedEvil> Here at least, it's ~1/8th the average june production in december.
[21:07] <SpeedEvil> But december varies a _lot_ more
[21:07] <mattltm> "Nominal power of the PV system: 1.0 kW" is that refering to a 1Kw panel?
[21:07] <SpeedEvil> yes
[21:07] <mattltm> Ahh, right.
[21:07] <fsphil-laptop> costyn, that is odd. (int) should have worked. hmpf
[21:08] <costyn> fsphil-laptop: my buffer is 120 chars long, it shouldn't be overflowing yet either
[21:08] <fsphil-laptop> nope, you're only at 41
[21:09] <fsphil-laptop> just a test, on the line before this can you set tempC1 to something like 42.1
[21:10] <SpeedEvil> http://www.pvoutput.org/aggregate.jsp?id=3744&sid=2940&v=0&t=w - The 'efficiency' - kWh/kW is output per kW of installed panel. You can see it varies wildly. Though there is a clear trend.
[21:10] <costyn> fsphil-laptop: lemme try that
[21:10] <SpeedEvil> The 'daily' is even more starkly random.
[21:11] <SpeedEvil> If you really did want ~1.3kWh of power a day - you're often better upscaling the battery significantly
[21:11] <mattltm> Humm...
[21:12] <mattltm> I was thinking I could start off with somthing like an 80 - 100W panel and build from there.
[21:12] <SpeedEvil> Well - you can.
[21:12] <mattltm> Be nice to get the pumps working and my AA battery charger running from it to,
[21:12] <costyn> fsphil-laptop: still does the same thing. i'm thinking i'm using the wrong number of arguments or something but i've counted them like 5 times already
[21:12] <SpeedEvil> And that will produce 400Wh or so a day in summer.
[21:12] <fsphil-laptop> I counted them too costyn
[21:12] <SpeedEvil> And be fairly useful in that you can average over a couple of days
[21:13] <mattltm> Thats not so sad
[21:13] <daveake_> costyn why %i for int instead of %d?
[21:13] <SpeedEvil> mattltm: the annoying part is 'good' batteries may last 5 years.
[21:13] <costyn> daveake_: fsphil-laptop said that earlier
[21:13] <fsphil-laptop> doesn't make any difference
[21:13] <mattltm> Would it be worth me getting a nice charge controler from the off if I indend on adding more panels?
[21:13] <SpeedEvil> It depends.
[21:14] <SpeedEvil> Firslty, you have to work out the batteries.
[21:14] <fsphil-laptop> but %d is probably more correct, but for printf they're equivalent. they mean different things for scanf
[21:14] <costyn> fsphil-laptop: it's weird because that negative interger is somehow related to the pressure, but it's in the wrong field, and I'm missing tempC2
[21:14] <SpeedEvil> For a 1kW panel, you need at least 5kWh ish of batteries, so as not to overcharge them.
[21:14] <fsphil-laptop> costyn, all I can think of is a buffer overflow somewhere
[21:15] <mattltm> I was thinking that I could get a battery one month then a new panel the next and so on..
[21:15] <SpeedEvil> And then you run into voltage issues. A proper peak-power tracker power controller is not that cheap if you want it to be expandible to a much larger system.
[21:15] <fsphil-laptop> costyn, of you've run out of memory
[21:15] <fsphil-laptop> of/or
[21:16] <SpeedEvil> mattltm: If you can raise ~6-8k - getting a proper solar install is possibly worth it.
[21:16] <SpeedEvil> mattltm: Payback in 8-9 years.
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[21:16] <fsphil-laptop> my payback time is 20 years
[21:16] <costyn> fsphil-laptop: buffer overflow is the most likely; my sketch is now 22290 bytes. should fit.
[21:16] <mattltm> I don't like the whole grid tied thing
[21:16] <SpeedEvil> fsphil-laptop: that's either a sucky site, or a -ridiculous- quote.
[21:16] <fsphil-laptop> although I calculated 20 years before the price increases
[21:16] <fsphil-laptop> SpeedEvil, crappy site
[21:16] <fsphil-laptop> grid tied is nice, no messing with batteries
[21:17] <fsphil-laptop> although during power cuts it's a bit silly...
[21:17] <SpeedEvil> mattltm: At the moment, grid-tied is lots easier - as you will need to replace batteries every 5-7 years or so.
[21:17] <mattltm> but you loose power during power cuts..
[21:17] <mattltm> oh..
[21:17] <fsphil-laptop> yea
[21:17] <fsphil-laptop> generating all that power and unable to use it
[21:17] <fsphil-laptop> but power cuts are rare here
[21:17] <SpeedEvil> mattltm: and 5-7 years * 20kWh of batteries = not cheap.
[21:17] <mattltm> We have about 8-10 power cuts per year.
[21:18] <SpeedEvil> A moderate battery bank, and a small generator is probably the sane way round that.
[21:18] <mattltm> About 2/3 of them are at night and about 1/2 of them last more than 3 hours :(
[21:18] <costyn> fsphil-laptop: ok well using %d doesn't change it. not sure what's going on, I'm done for today at any rate. Thanks for helping out
[21:18] <SpeedEvil> My UPS will do full load for ~12h or so.
[21:19] <fsphil-laptop> no worries costyn, if it's still not making sense tomorrow stick the code up somewhere
[21:19] <SpeedEvil> Oh - on a fun topic.
[21:19] <mattltm> I was thinking it would be great if I could power the garden irrigation using only solar and power the house lighting too
[21:19] <costyn> fsphil-laptop: thanks although I'm not sure I wanna share my atrocious C code hehe
[21:19] <SpeedEvil> http://www.decc.gov.uk/assets/decc/11/stats/energy/energy-source/3803-weekly-solar-pv-installation-and-capacity-.xls
[21:19] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[21:20] <SpeedEvil> Can you spot when the FIT rate was cut?
[21:20] <costyn> fsphil-laptop: but i probably will upload it somewhere
[21:20] <costyn> fsphil-laptop: cheers
[21:20] Action: costyn waves goodnight
[21:20] <fsphil-laptop> nite!
[21:20] <SpeedEvil> Night costyn.
[21:21] <mattltm> that is mental SpeedEvil :(
[21:22] <SpeedEvil> What I find really annoying is that you can't legally grid-tie.
[21:22] <SpeedEvil> That is - get paid at ~10p/kWh for solar panels without going through the approved panels and installer process.
[21:22] <SpeedEvil> err net-meter, I mean
[21:22] <mattltm> That does seem a bit strange but that is goverment policy all over :(
[21:22] <fsphil-laptop> you can't legally grid-tie?
[21:22] <fsphil-laptop> (oops)
[21:24] <mattltm> I like the (relative) simplicity of having a standalone power source.
[21:24] <SpeedEvil> Unfortunately, it's not really like that.
[21:24] <fsphil-laptop> would you loose much efficiency by charging of mains + grid tied?
[21:24] <SpeedEvil> And will take a lot of screwing with, unless you're willing to throw _lots_ of money at it
[21:25] <SpeedEvil> fsphil-laptop: If you could get good batteries, you can actually run off economy 7 electricity, without using peak-rate at all.
[21:25] <mattltm> I'm willing to screw with it a lot and learn :)
[21:27] <mattltm> Any recomendations on batteries?
[21:27] <fsphil-laptop> SpeedEvil, I've heard of people doing that
[21:27] <SpeedEvil> fsphil-laptop: it doesn't work unless you can get the batteries cheap
[21:27] <fsphil-laptop> I'll wait to see how your batteries go first mattltm :)
[21:28] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Elecsol-100Ah-Deep-Cycle-Carbon-Fibre-Leisure-Battery-/380351933464?pt=UK_Campervan_Caravan_Accessories&hash=item588ebdec18 - for example
[21:28] <fsphil-laptop> we've got a few electric forklifts in the factory. wonder if they'd miss the batteries
[21:28] <SpeedEvil> specced for 1000 cycles
[21:29] <mattltm> I had a optima in the landrover.
[21:29] <SpeedEvil> You want something specced for deep-cycle use, with an expliucity cycle life.
[21:30] <mattltm> Those Elecsol look good.
[21:30] <mattltm> So an 80W panel, a 100Ah deep cycle battery and a charge controler. Will that give me a good start?
[21:31] <SpeedEvil> pretty much.
[21:31] <SpeedEvil> I assume you have a southfacing place you can put it?
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[21:31] <mattltm> Yes, my roof is dead south facing.
[21:32] <mattltm> http://www.amazon.co.uk/SOLAR-PANEL-CHARGE-REGULATOR-BATTERY/dp/B002J47G34/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1326490046&sr=8-3
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[21:35] <SpeedEvil> Doesn't seem unreasonable - investigate if the earlier mentioned charge controller included in the price of the pane would suit
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[21:42] <mattltm> im confused about ampage rating of charge controlers.
[21:45] <mattltm> ah, so a 10A charge controler is good for 120W worth of panels?
[21:48] <fsphil-laptop> I'd leave a little room on top
[21:48] <SpeedEvil> Unsure how the actual rating works
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[21:50] <mattltm> Cool. Looks like i'm about ready to go shopping :)
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[22:06] <daveake_> Well that's enough polystyrene-sniffing for one evening :-)
[22:06] <jcoxon> evening
[22:06] <daveake_> evening
[22:07] <daveake_> Payload box now complete :-).
[22:08] <daveake_> Well needs some holes for the cameras but it does at least look like a box
[22:08] <fsphil-laptop> hiya jcoxon
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[22:11] <jcoxon> hey fsphil-laptop
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[22:39] <Laurenceb_> hi jcoxon
[22:40] <Laurenceb_> did you get your antenova gps working?
[22:40] <Laurenceb_> with a fix?
[22:40] <jcoxon> yup
[22:40] <Laurenceb_> nice work
[22:40] <Laurenceb_> what direction are you facing to the sky?
[22:41] <jcoxon> hehe its in the data sheet
[22:41] <jcoxon> how to orientate it
[22:41] <Laurenceb_> datasheet seems a little odd to me
[22:41] <jcoxon> its sort of end on
[22:41] <Laurenceb_> yeah, you followed that?
[22:41] <Laurenceb_> i dont get it
[22:41] <Laurenceb_> but you dont have a ground plane?
[22:41] <jcoxon> it works
[22:41] <jcoxon> nope
[22:42] <Laurenceb_> gets a lock easily?
[22:42] <fsphil-laptop> does it work on its side?
[22:42] <Laurenceb_> heh
[22:42] <jcoxon> yeah took about 3 mins outside in the gutter - so only half view of the sky
[22:42] <jcoxon> i suspect ublox 6 helps
[22:42] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[22:43] <Laurenceb_> interesting - im going to fire an email to antenova
[22:43] <Laurenceb_> about the antenni
[22:43] <Laurenceb_> some of the diagrams it is upside down
[22:44] <Laurenceb_> its crazy light :P
[22:44] <jcoxon> oh yes
[22:44] <jcoxon> i've actually now got new parts to make a pico payload with it
[22:44] <jcoxon> but
[22:45] <jcoxon> i've got to do some revision first
[22:45] <jcoxon> :-p
[22:45] <Laurenceb_> i thought youd finished
[22:45] <jcoxon> oh i'm applying for another training post
[22:45] <jcoxon> so need to prep for the interviews
[22:45] <Laurenceb_> good luck
[22:45] <jcoxon> thanks
[22:46] <SpeedEvil> In a different field?
[22:46] <jcoxon> oh no
[22:46] <jcoxon> just continuation
[22:46] <SpeedEvil> ah.
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[23:02] <natrium42> domo arigato jcoxon-san
[23:02] <natrium42> jakokoson-san
[23:03] <natrium42> or something
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[23:11] <Laurenceb_> wut
[23:12] <NigeyS> wtf?
[23:12] <fsphil-laptop> er.. hai?
[23:12] <NigeyS> diolch?
[23:12] <fsphil-laptop> danial-san?
[23:12] <fsphil-laptop> (height of my japanese knowledge there)
[23:12] <NigeyS> lmao
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[23:42] <fsphil-laptop> the link to download the flight path from the predictor
[23:42] <fsphil-laptop> the lines look like this: 1326499350,54.6631,353.249,820
[23:42] <fsphil-laptop> the longitude is a bit odd
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[23:42] <fsphil-laptop> looks like it's wrapped around
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[00:00] --- Sat Jan 14 2012