highaltitude.log.20120102

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[00:19] <kristianpaul> uv-r3 annd uv-200 diferences http://www.uv3r.com/images/UV-3R_Differences.xls
[00:20] <fsphil-laptop> non-xls version?
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[04:00] <Carl-WA4ADG> hello everyone, I need help creating an fldigi payload document that will inclue my telemetry format.
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[08:58] <Dutch-Mill> Good morning and a happy New Year Y'all... any news about PICOATLAS-6 ?
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[09:04] <daveake> jcoxon said yesterday he was intending to launch on Sunday
[09:07] <eroomde> does anyone know about binoculars?
[09:08] <Darkside> what about them?
[09:09] <eroomde> what makes a good pair
[09:09] <eroomde> is image stabilisation worth it
[09:09] <eroomde> do certain features make them good for astronomy but poor for something else and vice versa
[09:09] <Darkside> ahh
[09:09] <Darkside> nfi
[09:09] <Upu> something to do with the amount of light that gets through
[09:10] <eroomde> thanks Upu
[09:10] <Darkside> eroomde: get something with a wide aperture
[09:10] <Darkside> thats all
[09:10] <Upu> like boobs, bigger is better
[09:10] <Darkside> don't buy only on magnification
[09:10] <Darkside> magnification without aperture is useless
[09:10] <daveake> What they said
[09:10] <eroomde> that's the same with telescopes and all photography
[09:10] <eroomde> i'll certainly get the most glass i can
[09:10] <x-f> and don't buy zoom binoculars
[09:11] <Darkside> eroomde: well its the same thing
[09:11] <Upu> http://www.universetoday.com/13665/binoculars-for-astronomy/
[09:11] <Darkside> google to the rescue
[09:11] <eroomde> cool
[09:11] <eroomde> i'd like to do some astronomy with them
[09:11] <eroomde> but also general purpose
[09:12] <Upu> Well I saw Halleys coment through a pair of binoculars when I was 12
[09:12] <daveake> http://www.astronomy.com/en/Equipment/How-To/2004/07/Using%20binoculars.aspx
[09:12] <eroomde> and spotting that tiny glint of pink/organe payload from 1km away on a hill when chasing
[09:12] <Upu> 14 actually hopefully I'll still be around to see it again
[09:12] <Darkside> Upu: so you're 40?
[09:13] <Upu> 39
[09:13] <Darkside> :P
[09:13] <Darkside> ooh i should be alive to see it next
[09:13] <x-f> eroomde, for astronomy you'll also need a mount, you won't be able to keep them steady in hands
[09:13] <eroomde> for GAGA-1 I saw a tiny hint of brightness through a tree line from a roadside which was right at the limit of what my (younger) eyes could resolve, but j graham cumming couldn't quite see it. so it makes you think there are probably lots of situations where a bit of magnification would be of use
[09:13] <Darkside> i'll be 71...
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[09:13] <eroomde> x-f: yeah. i was considering image stabilisation too
[09:14] <eroomde> i've looked at stars enough with handheld binos, it's impossible
[09:14] <Upu> you can do it find just need to rest them on stuff and stop breathing :)
[09:14] <eroomde> :)
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[09:16] <daveake> Upu You need to use your telescope/yagi mount thing and make a portable version to aim binoculars at chased payloads :)
[09:16] <Upu> thats not a telescope mount :)
[09:17] <eroomde> we did talk about a webcam and spotting scope once
[09:17] <eroomde> optical tracking would be nice and easy on a clear day
[09:19] <daveake> Tracking using imaging software to keep the balloon within view? Or using the downloadsed GPS to track?
[09:19] <eroomde> imaging software
[09:19] <eroomde> like some telescopes use guide star trackers
[09:19] <daveake> Cool. Use 2 to generate the position data :)
[09:19] <eroomde> :)
[09:21] <Upu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOafqCpF8KU
[09:21] <Upu> did that last night with a Yaesy AZ/EL mount
[09:21] <Upu> stuck a webcam on it
[09:22] <eroomde> oh you've taken the plunge on one?
[09:22] <Upu> yeah
[09:22] <Darkside> how much?
[09:22] <eroomde> nice :)
[09:22] <Upu> made a controller out of an Arduino
[09:22] <Upu> £600
[09:22] <Upu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVVnXDNhAsk&feature=related <- confusing my dog
[09:22] <Darkside> ouch
[09:22] <Darkside> i think i'll go with my previous planand try and scab one from the DSTO
[09:22] <Upu> they wanted £529 for the controller
[09:23] <Upu> but Ardunio and 4 transistors... :/
[09:23] <daveake> eek
[09:23] <Darkside> since apparently the DSTO have a few 'spare'
[09:23] <Darkside> Upu: how is it controlled? stepper?
[09:23] <Darkside> or something else
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[09:23] <Upu> no idea just switched :)
[09:23] <eroomde> we scabbed our one from the wireless club
[09:23] <Darkside> derp
[09:23] <Upu> it gets a voltage feed back
[09:23] <Upu> to indicate position
[09:23] <eroomde> it's quite a lot bigger than is needed though, and a real pain to lug around
[09:23] <Darkside> hmm
[09:23] <Darkside> Upu: interesting
[09:24] <Darkside> so its kind of like a servo
[09:24] <Upu> between 2 and 4.5v = 0 180 / 0-450
[09:24] <Upu> eroomde its going on the roof
[09:24] <Upu> with a 19 element tonna
[09:24] <Upu> and a preamp
[09:24] <Upu> possibly 19 element just need to do some maths and see if I have space for it
[09:25] <Upu> open to suggestions as its your payloads it will be tracking
[09:25] <Upu> i.e is that over kill
[09:25] <Upu> do I need the preamp
[09:25] <eroomde> well, when it comes to those distance records...
[09:26] <eroomde> i think it only makes a difference when you get to over-the-horizon and it probably only makes a few 10km difference in distance once you've lost LoS over a much smaller one
[09:26] <Upu> well given the location and the performance I get out of the colinear I felt it was worth while making it better
[09:26] <eroomde> but damn cool so definitely
[09:26] <eroomde> also you could try EME
[09:26] <Upu> well yes
[09:26] <Darkside> i dunno if a preamp is worth it
[09:26] <Upu> that is on the cards too
[09:26] <Darkside> you can't bring the signal above local noise
[09:27] <Upu> I always have problems decoding the 300 baud launches
[09:27] <number10> I think Upu and M0DTS will be having a show down - the rest of is with a few bits of wire soldered to a BNC socket on the end of a windsurfing mast will have no chance
[09:27] <Darkside> haha
[09:27] <daveake> :)
[09:27] <Upu> lol
[09:27] <daveake> Though you seem to do quite well considering!
[09:27] <Upu> its the altitude
[09:28] <eroomde> yeah
[09:28] <number10> unless I can convive the vicar to turn the church tower into a hab tracking station
[09:28] <eroomde> altitude makes all the difference
[09:28] <daveake> I meant number10 does well considering his bent bit of wire aerial :)
[09:28] <number10> :)
[09:28] <eroomde> cambridgeshire is a good spot to be for hab. nice and flat
[09:29] <Upu> the fact that 90% of payloads are launched from there also helps
[09:30] <eroomde> that too
[09:30] <eroomde> biizarre really
[09:30] <eroomde> the worst possible spot geographically in the uk
[09:30] <eroomde> probably
[09:30] <daveake> It's a nice aera to aim at though :)
[09:30] <SpeedEvil> It's - moderately - far from the sea on all sides.
[09:30] <SpeedEvil> Which is a plus
[09:30] <eroomde> but cusf and jcoxon and rocketboy are all east-anglian
[09:31] <eroomde> and that's all it was launching for a wee while
[09:31] <SpeedEvil> ah
[09:31] <eroomde> oh and Laurenceb of course but Ox is right under flight paths
[09:31] <daveake> Large area to aim at / likley target from where I launch / lots of locals to listen in
[09:31] <daveake> and some of them even come out to play when it lands ;)
[09:31] <number10> :)
[09:32] <eroomde> I might go and see this David Roberston chap today
[09:33] <daveake> The guy who wants to launch from Oxford?
[09:33] <eroomde> i just saw a list of 20 questions and 'oxford' and reasoned it would be much easier to meet up somewhere with wifi and drinks
[09:33] <daveake> :)
[09:33] <eroomde> yeah him
[09:33] <number10> does he have a nick on chat?
[09:33] <daveake> Yeah, I thought I'd just reply with "come and watch my next launch" then got into answering some of those questions
[09:34] <Upu> honestly best way to learn that
[09:34] <eroomde> I don't beleive so number10
[09:34] <number10> number11 probably if his name is david
[09:34] <daveake> He didn't say so. Said he doesn't like or do IM much
[09:34] <eroomde> yeah turning up to a launch beats everything else
[09:34] <daveake> lol
[09:34] <daveake> Am I number1? ;-) :p
[09:34] <daveake> 9 prolly
[09:34] <number10> must be daveake - with that record
[09:35] <daveake> That's what I was getting at :)
[09:36] <daveake> In case anyone missed it / is interested, I upoloaded a video of the Buzz1inflation last night - http://youtu.be/EPMAo9A--sI
[09:37] <daveake> There's a bit where Julie ends up sat down for a while .... that's when I realised that the large cable ties were quick-release ones, and had to nip back home for some different ones.
[09:37] <daveake> Didn't want them releasing themselves!
[09:37] <eroomde> I've had balloons escape on me twice
[09:37] <eroomde> it's a bad feeling
[09:37] <daveake> I bet
[09:38] <eroomde> one was the first ever howyee i inflated, with the much larger neck over our made-for-kaymont fill tube
[09:38] <eroomde> it slipped off
[09:38] <daveake> I remember seeing a YT video ages ago where that happened. Fortunately there was a spare balloon and plenty more gas
[09:38] <eroomde> and other was inflating a 3kg balloon for a tethered drop test. it had so much lift it broke the fill tube off the rest of the fill rig and dissappeared
[09:38] <daveake> Yeah, I put gaffer tape on the tube (for grip), then the balloon neck folded over, then a couple of cable ties then more tape
[09:39] <daveake> Both my hwooooyeee launches have had lowish neck lifts, which reduces the worry
[09:39] <eroomde> yeah
[09:40] <Darkside> we always have someone holding the balloon
[09:40] <Darkside> as well as cable ties
[09:40] <eroomde> i don't ever want to inflate a balloon with that much gas again really
[09:40] <daveake> yep
[09:40] <eroomde> it was pushing what is practical
[09:41] <Darkside> 15kg neck lift, right
[09:41] <Darkside> ?
[09:42] <eroomde> in that case about 20
[09:42] <Darkside> ouch
[09:42] <daveake> Buzz1 was a really easy launch - no wind. Buzz2 we had 2-3 minute periods of very strong gusts, then quiet again for a few minutes.
[09:42] <daveake> 20kg? Wow!
[09:42] <daveake> I thought you were going to say about 6kg
[09:43] <daveake> I'm still wondering if the "pre-stretching" of the envelope during those gusts actually helped it attain that final altitude
[09:43] <eroomde> yep 20
[09:43] <eroomde> like i said, a bit hairy
[09:43] <eroomde> exhausting to fill
[09:43] <daveake> i.e. being stretched when at relatively warm temperature compared to when it's high
[09:44] <eroomde> let me just find a piccy
[09:45] <SpeedEvil> It would be interesting - when it's calm - to fill a balloon with a smidge of helium.
[09:45] <SpeedEvil> and air.
[09:45] <SpeedEvil> lots of air
[09:49] <eroomde> http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/2315/cimg0032kj.jpg
[09:49] <eroomde> that's during filling
[09:49] <eroomde> that's me with the blue top for scale
[09:49] <daveake> Lovely shape. That thing wants to go!
[09:49] <eroomde> and 3 large L bottles of gas to fill it
[09:52] <daveake> Expensive loss too
[09:53] <Darkside> eroomde: what did you do with it after the drop test?
[09:53] <eroomde> cut it free
[09:53] <eroomde> it wanted to go
[09:53] <eroomde> that was the failed drop test
[09:54] <Darkside> nothing attched to it?
[09:54] <Darkside> should have put a tiny payload on it :P
[09:54] <eroomde> failed in that it dropped before we were ready
[09:54] <eroomde> nah, after the heavy bang on the ground the mechanism we'd build to hold the balloon, guy lines, and payload was a bit bent, and the balloon was trying to slip off it
[09:54] <eroomde> so i stabbed it with my leatherman at the neck
[09:55] <eroomde> and it shot up into the air and upset a neighbouring field of cows
[09:55] <eroomde> it looked very very alien
[09:55] <eroomde> like some kind of Dr Who baddie
[09:55] <Darkside> rover?
[09:55] <eroomde> a sack of cats flying over cam
[09:56] <Darkside> i always think of rover whenever i see our launches
[09:56] <Darkside> the baddie from "prisoner"
[09:56] <eroomde> that's the one yes
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[10:20] <nosebleedKT> hi
[10:20] <nosebleedKT> :)
[10:25] <SamSilver_> morning
[10:25] <SamSilver_> hny
[10:27] <SamSilver_> nosebleedKT: did you take the family and friends out for drinks and a meal yet?
[10:27] <SamSilver_> afk
[10:39] <fsphil> I must do less late nights :)
[10:41] <nosebleedKT> yeah :)
[10:42] <fsphil> I've to be up at 8am tomorrow. blah
[10:42] <fsphil> wow, another sunny day. 2012 is being good so far
[10:44] <nosebleedKT> fsphil
[10:44] <nosebleedKT> happy new year
[10:44] <nosebleedKT> :P
[10:44] <daveake> "less late nights"? <sherlock>"fewer"</sherlock>
[10:44] <nosebleedKT> i enjoy my last day-off
[10:45] <fsphil> thanks for correctifying me daveake
[10:46] <daveake> No problem :)
[10:47] <fsphil> hmm.. if I'm launching this spring I suppose I should apply now
[10:48] <daveake> :-). Got mine in last year, for end Jan or beginning of Feb
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[10:55] <costyn_> morning lads... and happy new years
[10:55] Action: costyn_ wonders why Steve Randall's emails are always in font-size 25
[10:55] <costyn_> ;)
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[11:12] <daveake> Luvvit ... https://twitter.com/#!/ProfBrianCox/status/153287738064502786
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[11:38] <fsphil> anyone know where I can get a good 2m and/or 70cm band pass filter that I don't have to build?
[11:38] <gonzo_> mornin phil
[11:38] <fsphil> had the funcube dongle connected to the colinear again, and between the commercial FM stations and pagers, it's struggling
[11:38] <gonzo_> what's the application?
[11:38] <gonzo_> ah rgr
[11:38] <fsphil> filtering out of band noise
[11:38] <Darkside> fsphil: a good one, not easily
[11:39] <Darkside> there are some good helical filters available
[11:39] <eroomde> off the shelf SAW?
[11:39] <Darkside> but they arent cheap
[11:39] <gonzo_> the guys wrre looking at preamp/filter options for that
[11:39] <Darkside> yes, i have found a SAW filter for 70cm
[11:39] <Darkside> i have a few in a baggie on my desk...
[11:39] <Darkside> they are tiny
[11:39] <Darkside> also the filter is only 2MHz wide, and its centered on 433.92...
[11:39] <fsphil> nothing off the shelf I can buy though?
[11:39] <gonzo_> worth recheching the web, see where they are wit it
[11:40] <fsphil> wsplc have filters, but they're silly money
[11:42] <fsphil> Darkside, this the sort of thing you have? http://www.funcubedongle.com/?p=611
[11:42] <eroomde> he has a spevtrum analyser
[11:42] <eroomde> i really really really want a spectrum analyser
[11:43] <eroomde> it would be about the most useful tool I could have right now
[11:43] <fsphil> I'd like one too.. though I can't justify spending that much money on something I wouldn't use a huge amount
[11:44] <eroomde> indeed
[11:44] <eroomde> they start from about £3k on ebay
[11:44] <eroomde> equally some small-time consulting work could easily make it pay for itself
[11:45] <fsphil> if SAW filters are so cheap, why is nobody making finished units with them?
[11:46] <eroomde> well, it limits your FCD to just one narrow band of freqs
[11:47] <fsphil> I mean as an add-on
[11:47] <fsphil> not just for the fcd
[11:49] <eroomde> oh
[11:49] <eroomde> nfi
[11:49] <eroomde> would have thought they probably would exist somewhere
[11:49] <Darkside> whats this
[11:50] <Darkside> oh the filter
[11:50] <Darkside> the problem i have in australi ais our pager frequencies are in 148-149MHz
[11:50] <fsphil> eek
[11:50] <Darkside> 148.6625 is the lowest
[11:50] <Darkside> the most common is 148.8125
[11:50] <fsphil> that's worse than here
[11:50] <Darkside> and thats *everywhere* in SA
[11:50] <Darkside> its the government paging frequency
[11:50] <Darkside> so yeah
[11:50] <Darkside> the filter has to be REAL sharp
[11:51] <gonzo_> you would need quite a big arsed filter for freqs that close
[11:51] <Darkside> fsphil: i could probably make a SAW filter PCB
[11:51] <Darkside> SMA connectors on each end
[11:51] <russss> pagers suck
[11:51] <Darkside> the filters i have are ridiculously tiny
[11:51] <fsphil> unsolderable tiny?
[11:51] <Darkside> oh you could hand solder them i think
[11:52] <gonzo_> hopefullt the pagers will go completely in time
[11:52] <Darkside> hold
[11:52] <gonzo_> there are far fewer than there were a few yrs ago
[11:52] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/JDTjo.jpg
[11:52] <russss> that is quite small
[11:53] <fsphil> lol
[11:53] <Hes> The paging networks have been shut down over here already... we got a pile of VHF pager transmitters, stored them since they have really nice power amps for 2M
[11:53] <Darkside> the trick is the pads do go up the side slightly, so its hand-solderable
[11:54] <Darkside> one of the problems with th efilter though is it doesn't accept any DC offset
[11:54] <Hes> then we figured that hey, pagers are cheap on ebay, and the pager transmitters were built by a Finnish company which had hams as employees so we could get some assistance
[11:54] <Darkside> gotta be careful when checking it
[11:54] <Darkside> ie.e. no continuity checks
[11:54] <Hes> so now we have POCSAG transmitters of our own on 2m. :)
[11:54] <Darkside> anyway, i can probably make up a tiny PCB which lets you use one of these fsphil
[11:54] <fsphil> Hes, cute!
[11:54] <Darkside> i was thinking one of those + a preamp
[11:54] <fsphil> Darkside, I'm up for testing :)
[11:55] <Darkside> fsphil: those filters are from farnell
[11:55] <Darkside> find a local source for GALI-74+'s
[11:55] <Hes> Might sound evil, but we don't run them as hot and we keep them away from our 2M repeater sites :)
[11:55] <Darkside> they are made by minicircuits
[11:55] <Darkside> the GALI-74+ is my go-to LNA
[11:56] <fsphil> no results on farnell uk
[11:56] <Darkside> yeah farnell doesnt have them
[11:56] <Darkside> i get them from a local distributor
[11:56] <gonzo_> www.g0nzo.co.uk/misc/DSCF1345.JPG
[11:56] <fsphil> ah yes gotcha
[11:57] <gonzo_> my 2mtr bpf
[11:57] <fsphil> found the saw filters
[11:57] <Darkside> http://www.minicircuits.com/pdfs/GALI-74+.pdf
[11:57] <Darkside> gonzo_: stuck it on a VNA yet?
[11:58] <gonzo_> only swept with a tx/powermeter
[11:58] <fsphil> no idea what that is gonzo_, but it looks cool
[11:58] <gonzo_> no tracking gen on my specan
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[11:58] <Darkside> i'm still waiting for the pic to load
[11:59] <gonzo_> it's about a kg of brass, that's what it is
[11:59] <Darkside> oh jeez
[11:59] <Darkside> you made your own helical filter
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[11:59] <Darkside> you crazy man
[11:59] <gonzo_> ah, nope, an ex-pmr one
[11:59] <Darkside> oh you modified it :P
[11:59] <Darkside> haha
[11:59] <Darkside> still pretty good :P
[11:59] <gonzo_> yep, I'm daft, but not that daft
[11:59] <Darkside> i know someone who routed out their own cavity filter for DAB
[12:00] <Darkside> spent 2 weeks on the thing, had some ridiculous spec
[12:00] <gonzo_> have built filters, but for microwave
[12:02] <fsphil> so I'm guessing that filter is a pretty good one
[12:02] <Darkside> helical filters are very nice
[12:03] <fsphil> but not worth me building :)
[12:04] <Darkside> no...
[12:04] <Darkside> if theres something in your area thats a pain, you could build a notch filter for it
[12:04] <Darkside> you can do that with a coazial stub
[12:04] <Darkside> coaxial stub*
[12:05] <fsphil> I'm not sure which frequency is causing my problems
[12:06] <fsphil> it's on/off so certainly something like a pager
[12:06] <gonzo_> the fcd front end is very wide, so could be anywhere
[12:06] <Darkside> the fcd frontend is a pile of shit
[12:06] <Darkside> really
[12:07] <fsphil> is there a better sdr device that won't cost a fortune?
[12:07] <fsphil> the usrp* is out of my range
[12:07] <gonzo_> it's only a tv front end chip
[12:07] <gonzo_> built down to a proce
[12:07] <gonzo_> but few SDRs that do V/UHF
[12:08] <Darkside> mm
[12:08] <gonzo_> you'd need another radio with a decent sdr on the IF
[12:08] <Darkside> i've for a SDR in the works at the moment
[12:08] <Darkside> external LO tho
[12:08] <Darkside> has pretty good IIP3 too
[12:09] <gonzo_> be interesting to see
[12:10] <Darkside> LT5517 mixer
[12:11] <Darkside> 23-24dBm IIP3 at 2m
[12:11] <Darkside> could be better, but its not too bad
[12:11] <gonzo_> that's a lot!
[12:12] <Darkside> will do some performance tests on it
[12:12] <gonzo_> would need very high dynamic range lna's to do justice
[12:12] <Darkside> i think the GALI-74 should do that
[12:12] <gonzo_> and then there is the risk of overlaod of them too, with pagers
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[12:12] <Darkside> gonzo_: yeah, overload is the problem
[12:13] <Darkside> my lab is very close to a pager tower
[12:13] <gonzo_> prob is, pagers (uk) are 100W and I have a few in line of sight, prob 0.5mile away
[12:13] <Darkside> yeah, this one is about 200m away
[12:13] <gonzo_> even worse
[12:13] <Darkside> its a pain
[12:13] <Darkside> i cant use my handheld on 2m
[12:14] <gonzo_> I used to have one next door (previous house)
[12:14] <gonzo_> the 2mtr hheld got whacked too.
[12:14] <gonzo_> changed to pmr radios with 21.7meg if and more robust front end
[12:14] <gonzo_> that worked
[12:15] <Darkside> mm, i have a Icom IC-T90A
[12:15] <Darkside> crap frontend
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[12:15] <Darkside> i want to get a Kenwood TH-D72A
[12:15] <Darkside> dunno if the frontend on that is any better
[12:16] <gonzo_> yaesu used to do a hhelf, FT23. That was good, but not up to the pager next door
[12:16] <gonzo_> they also did a pmr version, but that was different design and was fine
[12:16] <gonzo_> one of the probs is they seem to make hhelds also be scanners
[12:17] <gonzo_> that means wide front ends
[12:17] <fsphil> vx7r has that flaw
[12:17] <gonzo_> and a loss of the full duplex option (that dual banders used to ofefr)
[12:17] <gonzo_> offer
[12:17] <fsphil> scanning HF I hear the same stations every mhz
[12:18] <gonzo_> sounds like overload phil. on a hheld that's to be exected
[12:18] <gonzo_> even bigger radios get overload. But have switchable gain and attenuators
[12:20] <fsphil> hmm.. I think I know where the pager antenna is. there's a building in the town with tall vertical antennas -- two sets of four
[12:20] <fsphil> about 2m long each
[12:31] <Darkside> nn
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[13:07] <gonzo_> you need to go out one night with a silenced rifle phil, and clip the coax to the antennas!
[13:09] <gonzo_> may be worth googling for wx sat receiving, as they had the same probs, so may be filters avail in their allocation that could be used
[13:10] <gonzo_> think they were 136 ans pagers 138, from mem
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[13:40] <fsphil> yea I read about the pager / satellite problem a while back
[13:42] <costyn_> are there still people who use pagers?
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[13:42] <fsphil> yea
[13:42] <fsphil> I ran a decoder on the signal a while back, mostly medical or emergency service stuff
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[14:14] <RocketBoy_S2> Hey dan - howya dooing?
[14:15] <eroomde> Wish for 2012: for Sparkfun to realise that 'SMD ICs' is an irritatingly broad category when you're trying to browse to something specific
[14:15] <eroomde> stilldavid: ^
[14:15] <Dan-K2VOL> mornin RocketBoy_S2
[14:15] <Dan-K2VOL> happy new year
[14:16] <RocketBoy_S2> Cheers - Did you see jcoxons pico flight altitude profile from last weekend
[14:16] <RocketBoy_S2> Christmas eve
[14:17] <Dan-K2VOL> no, have been swamped with family duties for a week!
[14:17] <Dan-K2VOL> is it posted online?
[14:17] <RocketBoy_S2> It was still up on nearspace this morning
[14:18] <RocketBoy_S2> Spacenear
[14:18] <Dan-K2VOL> checking now
[14:19] <Dan-K2VOL> ah interesting profile
[14:19] <Dan-K2VOL> looks very similar to our SPITBall-1 pressure profile
[14:19] <Dan-K2VOL> interesting
[14:20] <RocketBoy_S2> Yeah really trying to work out what caused the dip
[14:20] <Dan-K2VOL> anyone compare the cloudcover vs time?
[14:20] <RocketBoy_S2> At the time it looked like
[14:21] <costyn_> Dan-K2VOL: we did look at rain, seems one of the dips might be correlated with a rainshower passing by
[14:21] <RocketBoy_S2> There were coulds in the area
[14:21] <RocketBoy_S2> On the rain radar
[14:21] <costyn_> yea
[14:22] <RocketBoy_S2> But at 3000m i wouldnt
[14:22] <RocketBoy_S2> Normally expect rain
[14:22] <costyn_> I've experienced rain at 3000m; it does happen
[14:23] <RocketBoy_S2> Whats the probability - i thought the normal band for rain finishes at 2000m
[14:23] <Dan-K2VOL> even just shadowing from the sun will cause a descent for a balloon like that
[14:24] <costyn_> Dan-K2VOL: ok, well thats probably the answer then :)
[14:24] <Dan-K2VOL> when you're so close to the boundary of superpressurization vs neutral pressure
[14:24] <RocketBoy_S2> Interesting
[14:25] <costyn_> RocketBoy_S2: in my skydiving carreer I've had multiple incidents of getting out at 4000m on iffy weather days and getting my face sandblasted with rain drops (the pointy bits pointing upwards hurt :P)
[14:25] <Dan-K2VOL> he
[14:25] <RocketBoy_S2> i thought you would be the chap to know
[14:26] <Dan-K2VOL> the frightening ones are the CB warnings on this chart:
[14:26] <daveake> Do they have pointy bits if they're not falling? :)
[14:26] <daveake> Or are you falling faster?
[14:26] <costyn_> daveake: falling a lot faster ye
[14:26] <costyn_> s
[14:26] <Dan-K2VOL> http://50.16.222.54/whitestar/westbound.png note in the lower left "ISOL CBs 360"
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[14:27] <Dan-K2VOL> that means isolated thunderstorms topping out at 36,000 ft!
[14:27] <Dan-K2VOL> (cumulonimbus)
[14:29] <costyn_> Dan-K2VOL: if it got wet, would the dip have been further?
[14:30] <RocketBoy_S2> The free lift was about 1g
[14:31] <RocketBoy_S2> On a 36" dia balloon
[14:31] <costyn_> raindrops would quickly add up to 1g, so there goes my rain theory :)
[14:31] <Dan-K2VOL> costyn_I'm not sure,
[14:31] Jasperw (~jasperw@2a01:348:82:0:223:5aff:fef5:cce) joined #highaltitude.
[14:31] <Dan-K2VOL> what was the temp at 3km that day
[14:32] <RocketBoy_S2> No idea - dont think it had a temp sensor
[14:32] <costyn_> i don't remember it having one eithr
[14:33] <eroomde> http://www.sparkfun.com/products/8227
[14:33] <eroomde> perhaps fly one of these soon
[14:33] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm in our ideal amateur science balloon world our tracker would tell us the met office reported conditions along the flight :-P
[14:33] <RocketBoy_S2> I guess i could wet a balloon to see how much sticks
[14:33] <eroomde> i think rain formation necessarily means 100% reltive humidity
[14:33] <Dan-K2VOL> nice eroomde, that's a pricey sensor
[14:33] <Dan-K2VOL> we skipped over that one due to that
[14:34] <eroomde> yeah, though not too bad in the grand scheme of a hab flight
[14:34] <eroomde> for useful data
[14:34] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah
[14:34] <eroomde> maybe not so good for sacrificial flight s :)
[14:34] <Dan-K2VOL> the frost point is important if you're doing long duration
[14:35] <eroomde> hrm, i wonder if it's extracable from pressure, temperature, and RH?
[14:35] <eroomde> s/extracable/calculable
[14:35] <Dan-K2VOL> it is, just need the temp and RH
[14:36] <Dan-K2VOL> nearly the same as dewpoint, usually within a degree of it, but with slow temp changes at altitude the difference is significant enough to matter
[14:36] <eroomde> interesting
[14:37] <Dan-K2VOL> there's some papers on it
[14:37] <Dan-K2VOL> re balloon icing
[14:37] <eroomde> on the mendeley group?
[14:37] <Dan-K2VOL> I think so yes
[14:37] <Dan-K2VOL> I'll look tonight to make sure
[14:37] <eroomde> ta
[14:38] <Dan-K2VOL> the hardest darn problem we have as amateurs is shielding and aspirating the sensors on a floater
[14:39] <eroomde> mmm. you have zero air movement relative to the payload
[14:44] <RocketBoy_S2> eroomde: iirc we had a pico flight out olf churchill that went up though rain with a slow ascent rate ?
[14:45] <RocketBoy_S2> The one with green balloons
[14:45] <eroomde> i think so yes
[14:45] <eroomde> i remember the rain certainly
[14:46] <RocketBoy_S2> Yeah it slowed down when it went through the clouds
[14:46] <RocketBoy_S2> But i think it kept going up
[14:48] Action: RocketBoy_S2 is at ipswich town footy match
[14:48] Action: RocketBoy_S2 bets they loose again
[14:48] <eroomde> enjoying it huh
[14:49] Action: RocketBoy_S2 bored bored bored .....
[14:49] Action: daveake Used to live in Ipswich. Watched them play (and lose) against old friends Norwich
[14:50] <RocketBoy_S2> Nowich - deadly enemies
[14:51] <RocketBoy_S2> Its mrs rocketboy thats the footy fan
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[14:54] <Dan-K2VOL> RocketBoy_S2 lot of factors would determine how much rain would affect it, they all come down to how much water weight vs free lift though
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[14:57] <RocketBoy_S2> Yeah - i guess its a case of better instrementation needed to even have a good guesd about what went on
[14:57] Action: SpeedEvil is annoyed at the raspberry pi people.
[14:58] <Dan-K2VOL> oh speedevil?
[14:58] <SpeedEvil> Lack of product.
[14:58] <SpeedEvil> And yes, I understand that it's difficult...
[14:58] <Dan-K2VOL> eroomde, and the solar radiation in that situation can severely affect temp measurement
[14:58] <SparxEtch> Yeah, I've been following that for ages.
[14:59] <BrainDamage> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/180786734741?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1558.l2649#ht_500wt_1413
[14:59] <eroomde> Dan-K2VOL: hrm
[14:59] <SparxEtch> November, then December...
[14:59] <BrainDamage> it's there, just not cheap :p
[14:59] <costyn_> heh
[14:59] <eroomde> so you need to shield it in a silvered tube or something somehow
[14:59] <eroomde> but still get a flow of air over it
[14:59] <eroomde> is that the issue?
[14:59] <SpeedEvil> BrainDamage: At that price, I'd want it to be configurable to add what peripherals I want.
[15:00] <SpeedEvil> BrainDamage: And for me to be able to pick the orbit.
[15:00] <daveake> RocketBoy_S2. I met Mrs Dave in Ipswich. Before then she worked at an electrical contractors place in Portman Road
[15:00] <costyn_> SpeedEvil: haha
[15:00] <Dan-K2VOL> eroomde yeah
[15:00] <eroomde> i guess a fan is too much current
[15:00] <Dan-K2VOL> maybe, maybe not
[15:00] <eroomde> maybe you could get natural convection throuhg the tube somehow
[15:01] Action: SpeedEvil is currently wondering about a conservatory type thingy
[15:01] <eroomde> electronics/batteries/something else heat producing in the top, causing convection that draws external air through the bottom and over the sensor
[15:01] <SparxEtch> Would a fan work? With such thin air?
[15:01] <SpeedEvil> SparxEtch: Fan works fine
[15:01] <SpeedEvil> SparxEtch: It gets ~the same flow.
[15:01] <SpeedEvil> (fr the same RPM)
[15:01] <SparxEtch> Hmmm. :)
[15:01] <Dan-K2VOL> speedevil, the same volume per minute?
[15:01] <RocketBoy_S2> daveake: He he small world
[15:02] <SpeedEvil> Pressure it can produce is _much_ reduced of course
[15:02] <SpeedEvil> Dan-K2VOL: yes
[15:02] <Dan-K2VOL> if so that's not necessarily the same useful effect on cooling with drastically fewer molecules per volume :-)
[15:02] <SpeedEvil> Well.
[15:02] <SpeedEvil> For that, conduction is your friend.
[15:02] <SpeedEvil> Conduction is essentially unchanged down to well below 1Pa
[15:02] <SpeedEvil> Annoyingly if you're trying to do insulation.
[15:03] <SpeedEvil> Convection is almost useless though of course.
[15:04] <Dan-K2VOL> and radiation, or blocking thereof
[15:04] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm I wonder about a little solar radiation heated sterling engine to power the fan :-P
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[15:04] <BrainDamage> what would be the cold source?
[15:04] <RocketBoy_S2> Are rhere any tools we can use for thermal modeling
[15:05] <Dan-K2VOL> well, the ambient air is 50, radiating fins in the shade?
[15:06] <SpeedEvil> What are you trying to cool?
[15:06] <Dan-K2VOL> with silver sulfide on the solar input side the surface temp will get up to 150C I think at altitude
[15:07] <SpeedEvil> Also:
[15:07] <Dan-K2VOL> not really the best efficiency for a sterling cycle, but it's better than the boiling-water temp difference used to demo sterling engines
[15:07] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Solar-Evacuated-Mini-Tube-Oven-Power-sun-/120733016830?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c1c3fa2fe
[15:07] <Dan-K2VOL> though I don't think you could dump heat as fast as you input it up there
[15:07] <SpeedEvil> >>150C
[15:11] <eroomde> another question. it's been about 2 years since i last made a balloon flight computer. what do people use for temperature sensors nowadays?
[15:11] <Dan-K2VOL> we're using TMP100s in white star, nice I2C smd
[15:12] Action: SpeedEvil looks at his tmp100.
[15:12] <Dan-K2VOL> arduino has a great I2C library
[15:12] <Dan-K2VOL> makes it darn quick
[15:12] <Dan-K2VOL> called the Wire library
[15:14] <eroomde> this beastie isn't going to be arduino i don't think. but the source code could be useful - ta
[15:15] <RocketBoy_S2> Rapid are selling some philips sm -55c temp sensors for about 60p iirc
[15:15] <eroomde> oh nice
[15:15] <eroomde> that's more like it
[15:15] <eroomde> thanks
[15:16] <RocketBoy_S2> Ill dig out the no - i2c iirc
[15:16] <cuddykid> sanded the tail end of glider so it tapers in :)
[15:16] <eroomde> SE95?
[15:17] <eroomde> gosh the spec is great
[15:17] <eroomde> -55-125, 13bit, +/1 1C accuracy for -25 to 100
[15:17] <cuddykid> eroomde: I used the free Dallas ones..
[15:18] <eroomde> the only thing i don't like about i2c is that one faulty i2c device can bring down the whole bus
[15:18] <cuddykid> http://www.maxim-ic.com/datasheet/index.mvp/id/2815
[15:19] <RocketBoy_S2> Put em on different i/o - bit bashing i2c isnt too bad
[15:20] <eroomde> that's a point
[15:20] <Dan-K2VOL> true eroomde, but having a bus greatly simplifies mods later
[15:20] <number10> I have noticed a few people use the dalas 1-wire 18b20
[15:20] <cuddykid> piece of cake to interface, however I believe I fried one of them when soldering :P hence why the outside temp never dropped below -3C!
[15:20] <eroomde> ah yes a bus certainly but specifically i2c
[15:20] <RocketBoy_S2> Yeah the se95 was the one i was thinking about
[15:20] <SparxEtch> My fare went up 20p each way. :/
[15:20] <eroomde> which can have the ehole bus taken down by one device failing as open-collector
[15:20] <Dan-K2VOL> we use I2C between all our separate boards in the white star speedball, with an external tap, has been very handy for group development of modules
[15:21] <RocketBoy_S2> I think rapid are trying to clear them
[15:21] <eroomde> worth getting £10 worth
[15:22] <RocketBoy_S2> Yeah i got 10 the other day
[15:22] <Dan-K2VOL> true, but that is unlikley after ample ground testing
[15:22] <eroomde> giggle
[15:23] <eroomde> i think you just cursed youself Dan-K2VOL
[15:24] <eroomde> I think "hmm, well it worked on the ground..." is probably the most oft-heard thing when people come to launch and something goes wrong at about 500m
[15:24] <Dan-K2VOL> hehe eroomde
[15:25] <eroomde> or the coxon-kilometer as it's been semi-cruelly christened
[15:25] <RocketBoy_S2> Ah the coxon kilometer
[15:25] <eroomde> quite unfairly really as jcoxon makes good payloads
[15:25] <eroomde> but back in the day...
[15:26] <Dan-K2VOL> well, with this much stuff on the line we will be cold testing and running as much true-to-flight simulation to find any in-air gremlins before liftoff as possible
[15:26] <Dan-K2VOL> but yes, there isn't anything like the real world for finding the things you forgot to do
[15:27] <eroomde> i might put in bus isolators
[15:27] <eroomde> star topology to each different function subsection of the bus
[15:27] <RocketBoy_S2> No coxon kms in the last couple if years
[15:27] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm good plan eroomde
[15:27] <eroomde> so like, 5 temp sensors all hanging off one radius of a star, with an isolator at the root of each branch
[15:28] <eroomde> http://www.analog.com/en/interface/digital-isolators/adum1250/products/product.html
[15:28] <Dan-K2VOL> we did that actually due to the long lines needed on I2C sensors in the balloon, used I2C voltage boosters on that segment
[15:29] <Dan-K2VOL> interesting part eroomde
[15:29] <eroomde> i've used the adum1300s before
[15:29] <eroomde> general purpose 3 channel isolator
[15:30] <eroomde> really a very nice part
[15:30] <eroomde> very good for providing a UART interface to payloads you don't really trust
[15:30] <Dan-K2VOL> heh
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[15:36] <eroomde> RocketBoy_S2: farnell have a better pricebreak for them
[15:36] <eroomde> 10+ at 53p
[15:36] <jcoxon> afternoon
[15:36] <eroomde> talk of the devil
[15:37] <jcoxon> oh really?
[15:38] <eroomde> the coxon kilometer came up in convo
[15:38] <eroomde> we were actually saying how it doesn't really happen much anymore
[15:38] <jcoxon> i could probably still pull it off
[15:40] <eroomde> :)
[15:41] <jcoxon> just read the logs
[15:41] <jcoxon> eroomde, up to anything weekend coming up?
[15:43] <eroomde> housewarming in chiswick
[15:43] <eroomde> and also trying to engineer a visit to hawksmoor on commercial st
[15:43] <jcoxon> don't fancy a pico flight then?
[15:44] <eroomde> i suspect i won't have time unless it's sat morning/daytime
[15:44] <eroomde> where are you living atm btw?
[15:44] <jcoxon> canterbury currently
[15:45] <jcoxon> basically i'm debating whether to launch from suffolk
[15:45] <jcoxon> its just an effort to get there
[15:45] <jcoxon> but it does give me more flight path in the UK
[15:45] <eroomde> what are they alternatives?
[15:45] <jcoxon> well as its pico i could just launch from kent
[15:46] <jcoxon> but it'll be over france pretty quickly
[15:47] <eroomde> :)
[15:50] <jcoxon> so i was going to setup a mission control in suffolk
[15:50] <jcoxon> to make it worth while
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[16:01] <jcoxon> hey navrac
[16:01] <navrac> hiya
[16:01] <jcoxon> did you ever try and deadbug those gps modules?
[16:02] <navrac> no - i had a homebrew pcb and the pads were a bit towards the centre of the module - so I used a hot air gun - and it buggered the antenna section so i gave up
[16:02] <jcoxon> i see
[16:02] <navrac> going to order some more this week and try it again
[16:02] <jcoxon> yeah i'm still waiting for mine
[16:02] <navrac> mouser are normally quite quick for me
[16:02] <jcoxon> i think they are out of stock
[16:03] <jcoxon> they weren't when i ordered
[16:03] <jcoxon> but now it says pending
[16:03] <navrac> I looked yesterday and they still had stock then - but they ship from the US normally
[16:04] <jcoxon> might send an email in the next few days
[16:04] <jcoxon> if nothing has changed
[16:05] <navrac> probably closed over the holidays.
[16:05] <jcoxon> thats what i suspected
[16:06] <navrac> I'm busy on ebay trying to get a replacement receiver - and building a portable lightweight yagi
[16:06] <jcoxon> navrac, where are you based?
[16:06] <navrac> near framlingham in suffolk
[16:06] <jcoxon> oh right
[16:06] <jcoxon> if you got a filter you could use a funcube
[16:07] <navrac> i was thinking about that
[16:07] <jcoxon> really need some sort of filter though
[16:07] <jcoxon> otherwise its just noise
[16:07] <jcoxon> fsphil might be able to help you there
[16:07] <navrac> I was looking at the MVT-7100 seems to get good reviews
[16:08] <navrac> and sticking on a preamp with filter for the 430mhz band built into the aerial
[16:08] <jcoxon> cusf used one of those initially
[16:08] <jcoxon> i prefer the ft790r
[16:09] <jcoxon> but thats just 70cm
[16:09] <navrac> i had a 290r when it first came out - a long time ago, but dropped radio as a hobby
[16:09] <RocketBoy_S2> I had one of those - its a good scanner - but crap wrt s good ham rig
[16:10] <navrac> the mvt?
[16:10] <RocketBoy_S2> Yep
[16:10] <navrac> sadly no cheap ham rigs on ebay at the moment
[16:10] <jcoxon> RocketBoy_S2, hey, another pico launch next weekend? if you are free?
[16:11] <RocketBoy_S2> Yeah should be
[16:11] <navrac> jcoxon - thats why I want a scanner off ebay soon - so I can track it!
[16:11] <jcoxon> navrac, i could lend you my funcube
[16:11] <jcoxon> i'm not using it
[16:11] <navrac> nah, its ok - I want to buy something so I can test my payload.
[16:13] <RocketBoy_S2> jcoxon: Do you want me to launch it - you could post it up
[16:13] <RocketBoy_S2> Save you the trip
[16:14] <navrac> I want to see if I can make the rfm22 do dominoex22
[16:18] <jcoxon> RocketBoy_S2, tempting but i think its best i'm there
[16:18] <jcoxon> to debug it
[16:19] <RocketBoy_S2> No probs - but i can make the launch ok
[16:20] <jcoxon> cool
[16:20] <RocketBoy_S2> P-st-m?
[16:20] <eroomde> navrac: good luck
[16:20] <jcoxon> yeah
[16:20] <jcoxon> navrac, be nice to make it to rtty first:-p
[16:20] <eroomde> i've never been able to get enough frequency resolution out of the programmable units to do domino
[16:21] <RocketBoy_S2> Np - i have even worked out what i have been doing wrong getting there
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[16:21] <eroomde> when we had our original badger1 flight computer about 4 years ago, we had the ntx2's vco input wired to the arm's 10bit DAC output
[16:21] <eroomde> and even that didn't have the resolution
[16:21] <jcoxon> RocketBoy_S2, hehe excellent
[16:22] <jcoxon> i think i might hoist up some sort of mast
[16:22] <jcoxon> for tracking
[16:22] <navrac> oh shame - you reckon I'm flogging a dead horse then? I never got as far as seeing what the shift requirements are for domino
[16:22] <RocketBoy_S2> Yeah its reasonably well situated
[16:23] <jcoxon> just not terribly warm
[16:23] <RocketBoy_S2> Yeah
[16:26] <eroomde> navrac: not entirely sure without studying the datasheet
[16:26] <eroomde> it's always some equation with a bunch of registers as variables
[16:26] <eroomde> but usually the minimum shifts you can achieve are sort of of the order of 100s of Hz
[16:27] <eroomde> and you need at least an order of magnitude better than that for domino
[16:28] <navrac> well i dont think it will do that - so that ones out then - just rtty then
[16:29] <RocketBoy_S2> Its increadably tight to generate dominoex directly at 434mhz - given there is only one cycle differemce beteem each of the tones
[16:29] <eroomde> i think you need something with a vco (or AF-in of course) like the NTx2 to get domino out
[16:29] <eroomde> and a finer resolution DAS - 12bit should be fine
[16:29] <eroomde> that's what's going on the board I'm putting together right now
[16:30] <eroomde> and temperature compensation is probably necessary too
[16:31] <eroomde> as not only does the frequency of the ntx2 drift with temperature, the frequency range drifts too, so if the domino spec requires a jump of 100Hz, the voltage change that produces that jump at 20 celcius might only produce a 85Hz jump at -40 celcius
[16:31] <eroomde> which means you're busted
[16:31] <eroomde> as it's quite sensitive to differencial frequency spacing, as a mode
[16:32] <RocketBoy_S2> Perhaps using the ntx2 and a counter sniffing the rf out in a pll arrangement
[16:33] <eroomde> indeed, that's probably an even better option
[16:33] <eroomde> you need some known freq source to measure against though
[16:33] <RocketBoy_S2> And learn the voltages needed
[16:33] <eroomde> maybe gps pps
[16:33] <RocketBoy_S2> Yeah that was what i was thinking
[16:34] <eroomde> not sure what the rising edge jitter is like on pps
[16:34] <eroomde> but then over a second, probably no one gives a hoot
[16:34] <navrac> I was just after something challenging, but this is getting to sound more challenging than I fancy
[16:34] <eroomde> you could just close the loop completely
[16:34] <eroomde> have the VCO input run by a pid loop
[16:35] <eroomde> send the pid loop a desired freq
[16:35] <eroomde> maybe more on the moschistic side though
[16:35] <eroomde> fucky typo
[16:36] <eroomde> right, i need to run
[16:36] <eroomde> ttyl
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[16:43] <jcoxon> okay
[16:43] <jcoxon> stand back guys
[16:43] <jcoxon> i've got rtty on the rfm22
[16:44] <RocketBoy_S2> Cool - what shift
[16:44] <jcoxon> 1000
[16:44] <jcoxon> it was pretty obvious
[16:44] <jcoxon> i'm just shifting the freq
[16:45] <jcoxon> between 434.201 and 434.202
[16:45] <RocketBoy_S2> That will do
[16:45] <Upu> sounds interesting
[16:45] <jcoxon> will need to be flight tested
[16:46] <jcoxon> as who knows what happens with temp etc
[16:46] <RocketBoy_S2> Is that as fine as it goes
[16:47] <jcoxon> just got it down to 500hz
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[16:47] <Upu> sounds almost perfect
[16:47] <jcoxon> well fly it as well as slow-feld
[16:48] <jcoxon> 200hz
[16:48] <Upu> just transmitting on different frequencies ?
[16:48] <RocketBoy_S2> Cool
[16:48] <jcoxon> yeah
[16:49] <Upu> where did you get it from Sparkfun ?
[16:49] <navrac> :-( thats what I was going to do
[16:49] <jcoxon> navrac, a little inspired by the conversation we just had i must admit
[16:50] <jcoxon> Upu, its stocked in the UK as well
[16:50] <jcoxon> rfm22
[16:51] <Upu> interesting power too
[16:51] <navrac> that was how i was going to do the domino - but if i have to be within 10hz then its not going to be possible - i thought the shifts were probably going to be bigger - it just looked attractive as its reputadly good at coping with drift
[16:51] <Upu> whats +20dbm equate too in watts ?
[16:51] <jcoxon> 100mW
[16:51] <SpeedEvil> decibels referred to a milliwatt
[16:51] <SpeedEvil> 100mW
[16:51] <Upu> duh
[16:51] <navrac> and lots of m
[16:51] <navrac> mA
[16:52] <Upu> very interesting
[16:52] <jcoxon> yeah
[16:52] <jcoxon> thats the thing
[16:52] <jcoxon> it'll draw loads
[16:52] <jcoxon> more then my pico can cope with i suspect
[16:52] <jcoxon> but i'm not sure how much you'd gain
[16:52] <Upu> you can switch the power down to 10mW though ?
[16:52] <jcoxon> at this level its all about LOS
[16:52] <jcoxon> if you can see if you'll decode it
[16:52] <RocketBoy_S2> Have you actually tried it yet?
[16:52] <Upu> get one up I'm happy to try decode it
[16:53] <jcoxon> RocketBoy_S2, i've gone up to 17dbm
[16:53] <jcoxon> it didn't do 20 for me
[16:53] <RocketBoy_S2> Na i mean the rtty
[16:53] <jcoxon> i'm decoding it right now
[16:53] <jcoxon> but i've never flown it
[16:54] <navrac> I suspect most people loose 3db+ by not getting the aerials right with relation to the wire gauge
[16:54] <RocketBoy_S2> Ah ok
[16:55] <navrac> a mixed hell/rtty would be quite handy
[16:55] Action: RocketBoy_S2 ipswich loose again - what a surprise
[16:56] Action: daveake feigns surprise
[16:56] <navrac> lol
[16:56] <RocketBoy_S2> Bbl
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[17:07] <navrac> jcoxon - what register are you using to get 200hz shifts?
[17:07] <eroomde> i think domino with FEC will be a super thing if it becomes more standard
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[17:08] <eroomde> we really will be able to crank the data rate up
[17:08] <danielsaul> better
[17:08] <danielsaul> argh
[17:09] <jcoxon> navrac, ummm i'm using my setFrequency function in my modded library
[17:09] <jcoxon> just seeing which registers it is
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[17:10] <jcoxon> 0x73 - 0x77
[17:10] <navrac> I'm doing it libraryless
[17:10] <jcoxon> the lib is pretty simple
[17:10] <jcoxon> can all be implemented directly
[17:10] <jcoxon> just helped with some of hte initial setup variables etc
[17:13] <navrac> ah just toggling the r73 by one bit
[17:13] <cuddykid> done some more work on glider - uploading photos now :P
[17:13] <navrac> oops r77
[17:16] <jcoxon> navrac, yeah i guess my current way is quite slow
[17:18] <navrac> if it works it doesnt matter, from what I can see that shift of 1 bit will actually be 156.25Hz
[17:21] <Laurenceb_> you talking about si4432?
[17:21] <cuddykid> take a look guys http://flic.kr/s/aHsjxDFm3K - last 3 are the new ones added just :D
[17:23] <jcoxon> Laurenceb_, yeah
[17:23] <Laurenceb_> yeah im using rfm22b lib from arduino - i ported to stm32
[17:23] <navrac> yep - the si4432 - r73 changing gives you a change of 200?Hz - but r63/64 allows a shift of 156hz
[17:24] <Laurenceb_> interesting
[17:24] <navrac> oops try that again r77 gives a 200hz shift but r73/74 can give a 156hz shift
[17:24] <Laurenceb_> i havent looked at the arduino code setFrequency source
[17:24] <Laurenceb_> but it should be possible to set a carrier then do RTTY
[17:25] <navrac> its nasty
[17:25] <navrac> jcoxon has just done it
[17:25] <Laurenceb_> oh cool
[17:25] <navrac> the method isnt nasty - i mean the frequency selecting is nasty
[17:25] <jcoxon> but then what ever we are doing to this module isn't terribly clean
[17:25] <Laurenceb_> whats up with the signal?
[17:26] <navrac> i was referring to how painful it is in code to set the frequency on the damn thing
[17:26] <Laurenceb_> i see
[17:26] <eroomde> moving the carrier around?
[17:27] <Laurenceb_> yesd
[17:27] <eroomde> that's not that ugly
[17:28] <eroomde> using those chips for uplinks from the ground
[17:28] <eroomde> now there's ugly :)
[17:28] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[17:28] <Laurenceb_> it should work ok
[17:28] <Laurenceb_> oh - OOK
[17:28] <Laurenceb_> yeah thats a hack :P
[17:29] <navrac> jcoxon - does you library allow you to address registers directly? can you set the frequency using the lib and then toggle reg 73 from 00h to 01h and see if that gives you a shift?
[17:31] <Laurenceb_> eroomde: i was thinking of flying a cc1020 and doing software RTTY decoding
[17:31] <Laurenceb_> that might work better
[17:31] <jcoxon> navrac, yeah
[17:32] <jcoxon> the lib is just covering up the actual spi write
[17:32] <eroomde> magic smoke has just come out of my avr dragon
[17:32] <eroomde> bugger
[17:32] <eroomde> guggering bugger bums
[17:32] <Laurenceb_> fuuu
[17:33] <Laurenceb_> what did you do?
[17:33] <eroomde> that's like a week of food
[17:33] <eroomde> up in smoke
[17:33] <eroomde> i dropped a metal ruler on it
[17:33] <eroomde> so... entirely my fault
[17:33] <navrac> im just trying to work out if its possible to combine the frequency select in register 77 with that of 73 to be able to do smaller increments
[17:33] <navrac> easily done though
[17:33] <eroomde> excel spreadhseet time
[17:33] <jcoxon> navrac, let me just fix something i'm mid way through doing and i'll have a go
[17:34] <eroomde> yeah very annoying
[17:34] <eroomde> £38 for a new one
[17:34] <eroomde> sigh
[17:34] <Laurenceb_> maybe just a vreg fried?
[17:34] <navrac> have you noticed how cheap components never blow up - unless they are out of stock of course
[17:35] <eroomde> hoping just a vreg
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[17:39] <navrac> jcoxon - dont worry I misread the data sheet - the frequency select is already using r73 so its not possible :-(
[17:41] <navrac> well misread and mistyped to be honest - r73 is the smallest incremental frequency change of 156.25hz
[17:44] <jcoxon> okay
[17:45] <jcoxon> annoying amount of drift between modes
[17:45] <jcoxon> so if i do 10 rtty strings it settles down
[17:45] <jcoxon> switch to slow hell and off we go
[17:47] <eroomde> wow has anyone had a play with avr studio 5?
[17:47] <eroomde> it looks really really nice!
[17:48] <Laurenceb_> isnt it just... a gui?
[17:48] <Laurenceb_> ill have a play
[17:49] <eroomde> well, it comes with the entire backend now
[17:49] <eroomde> so you no longer need winavr
[17:50] <Laurenceb_> ah cool
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[17:50] <Laurenceb_> yeah it was a pita to install
[17:51] <Laurenceb_> graphics look slightly better
[17:51] <Laurenceb_> project config looks a bit more sane
[17:56] <eroomde> yeah
[17:56] <eroomde> jsut looks a lot more polished and complete
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[17:56] <eroomde> a reason to get windows, even
[17:58] <eroomde> infact good enough to give the avr uc3 devices a whirl
[17:59] <eroomde> they do look pretty ncie afterall
[17:59] Action: SpeedEvil wonders if it wines.
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[18:00] <eroomde> that would be awesome. but i understood based on my out of date knowledge that wine and connecting to the outside world can be tricky
[18:01] <SpeedEvil> True
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[18:04] <jcoxon> currently for my hellschrieber i setup a carrier and just turn the tx mode on and off
[18:04] <jcoxon> but it drifts for quite a bit before settling
[18:05] <Laurenceb_> studio 4 works in wine
[18:05] <Laurenceb_> i use avrdude for flashing
[18:07] <danielsaul> Do we know anyone that lives in birmingham?
[18:07] <danielsaul> argh
[18:07] <danielsaul> ignore that
[18:11] <cuddykid> I live nearish birmingham :)
[18:13] <cuddykid> hmm, have to choose between either a module in Java (OO) programming or Web (PHP/database stuff) programming - think I'll do Java as I already know a fair amount of web stuff
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[18:39] <zyp> cuddykid, both sounds horrible :p
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[18:41] <gonzo_> I'll stick to assembler!
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[18:48] <fsphil> that's hard core gonzo_
[18:49] <navrac> I find assembler easier than C - but thats my age I guess
[18:51] <fsphil> I did some pic assembly, it wasn't too bad
[18:52] <daveake> You're the first I've heard say that :)
[18:52] <navrac> I just like the fact its small and I know whats going on, I feel to divorced from the hardware in higher level stuff
[18:52] <fsphil> C isn't really that high level :)
[18:52] <daveake> Nope
[18:53] <gonzo_> Well, admit, mostly C. But always thinking what assembler will come out the other end
[18:53] <daveake> I started on assembler with <age alert>Z80</age alert>, but I can't imagine using assembler again aside from perhaps writing low level routines for C to call
[18:54] <navrac> well 'in my day' we didnt have higher level stuff - apart from fortran :-)
[18:54] <daveake> Done plenty of that too :)
[18:54] <navrac> my first program was for a 4 bit processor
[18:54] <Laurenceb_> lol fortran is horrible
[18:54] <gonzo_> as long as it's not COBOL, or you will be sent to stand outside
[18:54] <navrac> yep sure is
[18:55] <daveake> There were some COBOL programmers at my first job. Awful stuff.
[18:55] <daveake> I had a quick play with Algol-something once. 100 lines of code and 110 compile errors. I gave up.
[18:57] <fsphil> daveake, if it's any help I started with 6502 assembler :)
[18:57] <navrac> I think I can probably read the hex from an 8080 program. I used to be able to program in hex without an assembler.
[18:57] <navrac> 6502 that was nice as was the 6800
[18:58] <eroomde> our microcontroller course at uni was 6800 based
[18:58] <eroomde> you had a hex number pad
[18:58] <fsphil> I knew the character codes for certain 6502 instructions, and could type very small programs into video memory on the C64
[18:58] <eroomde> and a piece of paper with the instruction set printed
[18:58] <eroomde> and your ide was a pencil and paper
[18:58] <fsphil> (very small as in flash the screen colour, and loop)
[18:58] <eroomde> i really really enjoyed it actually
[18:59] <daveake> At the risk of starting an old farts convention, my first 'puter was a Z80 + bits on veroboard, connected to 16 toggles for the address lines, 8 for the data lines, plus a "write" pushbutton etc and loads of LEDs. So I used to program from assembler-->hex --> binary in my head, which was fun.
[18:59] <navrac> I still do the odd pic based project for work in assembler
[18:59] <fsphil> ooh, I had graphics and sound and stuff daveake ;)
[18:59] <number10> ah... its oldie time
[18:59] <gonzo_> hehe, 'In my day....'
[18:59] <daveake> Thought you'd wake up #10 :)
[18:59] <fsphil> lol
[18:59] <gonzo_> cut my teeth on 6502
[19:00] <number10> running at 750khz
[19:00] <fsphil> nice
[19:01] <fsphil> I was always impressed by how much developers could squeeze out of those old machines
[19:02] <daveake> I decided to expand the Z80 machine, so I put a PIO, USART and more memory (4KB ) on a second piece of vero, wired to the busses on the first. I needed more power so I put a second regulator on that board, converting the incoming 12V down to 5V ....
[19:02] <daveake> .... (some of you may spot where I'm going with this) ...
[19:02] <zyp> we had something similar in school, except it was 6502 based and contained a monitor rom which allowed you to input the program in hex form through a 7-seg display and hex keypad
[19:03] <navrac> yep, the days of push and pop have gone
[19:03] <fsphil> yikes, I was spoiled. I had an assembler
[19:03] <RocketBoy> my fist computer was a commodore pet - with the crappy (ZX80 like) keyboard
[19:03] <daveake> .... I cut all the tracks between the components on the digital side, and ditto on the regulator circuit the other side of the board, however I forgot to cut the tracks between the 2 sides ....
[19:03] <daveake> .... so I had rampant 12V going where it shouldn't. Smoke ensued.
[19:03] <fsphil> I didn't know commodore used the rubber keys on any machines RocketBoy
[19:03] <fsphil> did you get the smoke back in daveake?
[19:04] <daveake> Sadly not. And the whole thing was vero-wired without IC sockets, so it would have been a complete rebuild.
[19:04] <number10> lol
[19:04] <RocketBoy> na like this one http://oldcomputers.net/pet2001.html
[19:04] <fsphil> oh nice
[19:04] <fsphil> that keyboard looks evil
[19:05] <daveake> I know of a factory that was still running on one of those Pets till 1992 at least
[19:05] <zyp> my first computer was a scandis; 80186 based school computer with monochrome green monitor, no disk drive and dual 5.25" floppy drives
[19:05] <zyp> a friend of my dad was a teacher at the local school when they were throwing them away
[19:05] <navrac> The first microprocessor code i did while working was for the european space agency for a satellite, I guess I'm going full circle - just a bit lower
[19:05] <SpeedEvil> zx81
[19:05] <number10> I used to live in paper bag http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tangerine_Microtan_65
[19:05] <RocketBoy> fsphil: it was - they produced one with a proper keyboard later
[19:05] <daveake> navrac was that on one of those silicon-on-sapphire processors?
[19:06] <daveake> A colleague used one of those. ISTR it needed 3 or 4 supply voltages to run
[19:07] <navrac> no - it was an intel 4004 based program - something to do with a camera - it was over 30 years ago so I cant remember exactly what
[19:07] <RocketBoy> cut my teeth on fortran, then PET basic, 6502 assembler, 8080 assembler Z80 assembler ZX basic - PLM, C, C++
[19:07] <SpeedEvil> Aha - get_iplayer finally gets sherlock.
[19:09] <RocketBoy> 4004 was the 4bit prediscessor to the 8 bit 8008 which was superceded with the 8080 ...
[19:10] <navrac> Well I was only 18 at the time.
[19:10] <RocketBoy> oh forgot - 8048 and 8051 assembler in there somewhere too - and pic assembler more recently
[19:11] <navrac> 805x series - I had quite a soft spot for them.
[19:12] <SpeedEvil> You and a billion keyboards.
[19:12] <RocketBoy> think I'll hunt this guy down http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&v=Be6cYdbYeLU&NR=1
[19:12] <SpeedEvil> ten billion?
[19:12] <daveake> I once had to fix a Pet installation where the software was custom and the original programmer had buggered off without leaving (and allegedly without having) a copy of the source. The program was in one of those battery CMOS PROM chips, and got zapped when the factory got hit by lightning. When I got there I could list out part of the program but at about the 25% mark the listing went to shit. I had to write a little hex dump program, print out
[19:12] <SpeedEvil> ow
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[19:14] <navrac> I know that feeling - I started work for a company who had built an amazing machine which controlled robots to pick garments out of lockers and put orders together for people and then packed them - amazing technology for the time. Sadly the processor board was dead,
[19:15] <navrac> no source, a few incomplete listings in a file and a factory with loads of people sitting there looking at me expectantly
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[19:16] <RocketBoy> bbl
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[19:16] <daveake> Yeah, I don't think these guys had any idea how close they were to not having that thing fixed.
[19:18] <cuddykid> gonzo_: just done a semester of arm assembler! :P
[19:19] <cuddykid> was fun - never experienced anything like it before
[19:19] <fsphil> I wanna try arm assembly when (if) I get the raspberry pi
[19:20] <cuddykid> yeah, my lecturer was going on about the raspberry pi - looks very cool!
[19:20] <Zuph> I'd recommend starting on a smaller ARM for assembly, honestly.
[19:20] <fsphil> not long till they're available now hopefully
[19:20] <cuddykid> and cheap - well, not the beta ones going on ebay! 
[19:20] <fsphil> lol
[19:20] <number10> notice how all of the old boys have nodded off - its just us younguns still up
[19:20] <fsphil> anything in particular Zuph?
[19:21] <fsphil> atmel make some arm chips
[19:21] <Zuph> Any Cortex-M3 has a cheap dev kit somewhere.
[19:21] <cuddykid> we tested all our arm stuff on an emulator some prof at Manchester uni built - they wouldn't let us lose with our buggy code on real chips!
[19:21] <fsphil> aww cuddykid
[19:21] <Zuph> ST makes nice chips, but their manuals are dense. TI is a bit nicer, but more difficult to find cheap kits.
[19:21] <fsphil> Zuph, do you know if it has good linux support?
[19:21] <cuddykid> I know fsphil :( very sad haha
[19:21] <Zuph> fsphil: Oh, hell no. No MMU :-p
[19:22] <Zuph> You'll be writing bare metal here.
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[19:22] <fsphil> not linux on it, I mean for development and programming :)
[19:22] <Zuph> Oh!
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[19:22] <Zuph> Yes*.
[19:22] <fsphil> I nearly bought one a while back, only to discover it didn't have any support on linux
[19:22] <Zuph> *Unless you're using the dev boards with JTAG built in, then you're in for something of a rough ride.
[19:23] <Zuph> If you have a real JTAG debugger, though, it's all peachy.
[19:23] <fsphil> don't
[19:23] <fsphil> I've stepped around JTAG
[19:23] <fsphil> haven't needed it yet
[19:24] <cuddykid> that's what we used for our arm stuff - was actually pretty neat http://brej.org/kmd/
[19:25] <Zuph> The bootloaders work alright, although the boards have varying support.
[19:26] <fsphil> JTAG can be used for programming?
[19:26] <fsphil> variation of atmel's ISP header?
[19:28] <Zuph> yeah
[19:28] <Zuph> Not really like atmels ISP header.
[19:29] <Zuph> There's a somewhat standardized JTAG pinout.
[19:32] <NickB1> hey guys
[19:32] <NickB1> the shield is coming together http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/8601/megahabshieldassembly.jpg
[19:33] <Hiena> Nice. Likes the load on the antenna out.
[19:34] <NickB1> like to be safe
[19:36] <Hiena> Yeah, better to be safe than sound. :)
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[19:41] <daveake> number10 - LOL, though I didn't "nod off", I was in the kitchen cooking!
[19:42] <fsphil> never understood these shields -- just stick an avr on there and make it a full board
[19:42] <Zuph> fsphil: More to go wrong!
[19:43] <Zuph> More to debug, more to design, build and layout.
[19:43] <number10> zzzzzz
[19:43] <number10> you said something daveake?
[19:43] <fsphil> 100 points to the first person to fly a 6502-based flight computer
[19:44] <daveake> number10, yes I was just sa....zzzzzzzzzzzzzz
[19:45] <number10> I probably still have some 6502s 8080s and 8085s Z80s fsphil - took most of it down the dump - lots of CP/M stuff and 8 inch discs
[19:45] <daveake> I've definitely got some Z80 stuff
[19:45] <daveake> And a box of TTL
[19:46] <daveake> No chance of actually using any of it though!
[19:46] <Hiena> fsphil: i could strap a C64 to my glider, but i guess the Yunost TV set would throw my CG.
[19:46] <number10> not really, but you can take it down the pub when you are 75 and reminisce
[19:47] <Hiena> I have a full tube of the latest Z80 and a CTC too.
[19:47] <gonzo_> good chan this... light the blue touch paper and retire......
[19:48] <number10> look I have a 7473 and it wont latch
[19:48] <Hiena> :)
[19:49] <fsphil> you can probably still buy Z80 chips
[19:51] <daveake> http://hackaday.com/2010/05/22/z80-emulated-on-pic-hardware/
[19:52] <gonzo_> sounds like the sort of thing management would come up with!
[19:52] <fsphil> I've a dead C64, can probably grab the 6510 from it and use that somewhere
[19:52] <gonzo_> because 'it will save rewiting the existing code'
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[19:53] <cuddykid> that reminds me - I need to order some atmega328s
[19:53] <gonzo_> I need to order some EL34's
[19:55] <cuddykid> and probably need to order some more breadboard - have clogged up the ones I have with HABE2 prototyping stuff
[19:57] <Hiena> gonzo_: Do you want a PL501? Guess i still have a working one.
[19:58] <fsphil> oh, all this reminding has reminded me I need to get kk plugs
[19:59] <number10> thats reminded me - work tomorrow :(
[19:59] <fsphil> yea
[19:59] <fsphil> here too
[19:59] <fsphil> though it's only the IT dept. in tomorrow
[19:59] <fsphil> so it'll be quiet at least
[19:59] <number10> everyone else got another day psfhil?
[19:59] <fsphil> yep
[20:00] <fsphil> I have a joyful day of writing VB6 code
[20:00] <daveake> urggh
[20:00] <fsphil> yea
[20:01] <SpeedEvil> The last guy I knew who did VB6 code did himself in.
[20:01] <SpeedEvil> Don't let it do that to you!
[20:01] <daveake> A bit extreme
[20:01] <number10> dont do it fsphil
[20:01] <fsphil> I survive by playing with COBOL now and then
[20:01] <daveake> But only a bit
[20:01] <fsphil> yes, not too much
[20:02] <fsphil> it's an old system, I've found some shocking code in there
[20:02] <daveake> I once did some control of Word as an OLE object. It was, as someone described it, "Like wall-papering a house through the letter box"
[20:03] <fsphil> lol
[20:03] <fsphil> yep
[20:03] <gonzo_> isn't that the definition of a gynocologist?
[20:04] <SpeedEvil> If a gynocologist starts wallpapering stuff in there, they've gone too far.
[20:06] <fsphil> brb
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[20:23] <Laurenceb_> http://www.eso.org/public/archives/images/original/e-elt11.jpg
[20:23] <Laurenceb_> wtf
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[20:25] <Laurenceb_> thats one weird telescope
[20:32] <SpeedEvil> I don't think the thing to the right is an optical element
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[20:56] <danielsaul> What sorts of commands do people use on uplink? So far I have thought of changing the baud rate and transmitting ASCII art :P
[20:58] <Lando-SpacePimp> danielsaul: Better yet, ASCII porn.
[21:00] <danielsaul> Hmm, maybe not :P
[21:03] <fsphil> If I did one, I'd like to put a command in to repeat a message
[21:03] <fsphil> and try to use the payload for a brief long distance contact
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[21:08] <fsphil> though you'd have to be careful nobody could accidentally send the command for the cut-down :)
[21:16] <Dan-K2VOL> danielsaul here's an exammple of what we're using for uplink commands
[21:16] <Dan-K2VOL> http://wiki.whitestarballoon.com/doku.php?id=software:speedball1:uplink:commands
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[21:34] <Laurenceb_> http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=14689
[21:34] <Laurenceb_> interesting - first time ive seen it in a flatpack
[21:36] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[21:37] <SpeedEvil> 96Wh/K
[21:37] <SpeedEvil> g
[21:37] <SpeedEvil> Prolly 100 without the wrap and wires
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[21:37] <Laurenceb_> http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__19153__Turnigy_nano_tech_5000mah_3S_65_130C_Lipo_Pack.html
[21:38] <Laurenceb_> thats isnane too
[21:39] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
[21:39] <SpeedEvil> I linked you to that 'DIY supercap' with nanotubes and sponge?
[21:39] <Laurenceb_> itd be flat in <30s at the burst rate
[21:39] <Laurenceb_> no
[21:39] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[21:40] <Laurenceb_> http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__14074__ZIPPY_Flightmax_8400mAh_4S2P_30C_LiFePo4_Pack.html
[21:41] <Laurenceb_> thats >100Wh/KG
[21:41] <SpeedEvil> http://www.mauve.plus.com/sponge.pdf
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[21:41] <SpeedEvil> I wish that unsorted nanotubes were available cheaply.
[21:41] <SpeedEvil> That looks not impossible to DIY
[21:43] <Lando-SpacePimp> SpeedEvil: Do you do lame balloons or cool sounding rockets?
[21:46] <Laurenceb_> you could build a cool electric scooter with those
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[21:47] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Or a hoverboard.
[21:47] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: :)
[21:47] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/120MM-RC-JET-Airplane-Metal-EDF-Ducted-Fan-830KV-Motor-/400183320267?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item5d2cc8decb - will along with the motor and some structure - accellerate at 2.5G
[21:47] <Lando-SpacePimp> SpeedEvil: Hoverboards don't work on water...
[21:48] <SpeedEvil> My design would.
[21:48] <Lando-SpacePimp> UNLESS YOU GOT POWA!
[21:48] <Lando-SpacePimp> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fROq-ZxtvnU
[21:48] <SpeedEvil> An array of turbines, and batteries
[21:50] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Then of course, there is the issue that a SEM would be really good for debugging issues with nanotube based caps.
[21:51] <Laurenceb_> 6Kg thrust
[21:51] <Laurenceb_> wow
[21:51] <Laurenceb_> youd still need about 20 of them
[21:52] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
[21:52] <SpeedEvil> Those aren't ideal, it was just neat.
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[21:52] <SpeedEvil> There are somewhat better thrust/weight available
[21:53] <Laurenceb_> i see
[21:53] <SpeedEvil> What you really want is one with a somewhat undersized motor.
[21:53] <SpeedEvil> So you can run it at maybe 70% of power nominally, for hover.
[21:53] <SpeedEvil> Then burst to 150% for 'eeeek'
[21:54] <Laurenceb_> i see
[21:54] <Laurenceb_> itd make a cool hozer vehicle with some find in the back
[21:54] <Laurenceb_> *hover
[21:54] <SpeedEvil> I think I came up with a 'luggable' design.
[21:54] <SpeedEvil> ~40kg, and ~1m square
[21:54] <Laurenceb_> haha
[21:55] <SpeedEvil> 3-4 min flight time.
[21:55] <Laurenceb_> the cost is coming down.. slowly
[21:55] <SpeedEvil> 4Km altitude ceiling.
[21:55] <SpeedEvil> (if you don't want to land gently)
[21:55] <SpeedEvil> :)
[21:55] <Laurenceb_> lol
[21:55] <Laurenceb_> an electric scooter would be more practical
[21:55] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
[21:55] <SpeedEvil> Possibly also more legal.
[21:55] <Laurenceb_> you could make something that would go to ~50mph and have hundered miles range or so
[21:56] <Laurenceb_> for ~£500
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[21:57] <SpeedEvil> If you mean four wheel - that's a 'heavy quadricycle'
[21:57] <Laurenceb_> LiFePo makes it more practical
[21:57] <Laurenceb_> i mean two wheel kids thingy
[21:57] <SpeedEvil> and has a max engine power of 15kW
[21:57] <SpeedEvil> ah
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[21:57] <Laurenceb_> maybe with pneumatic tires if you dont want to be shaken to death
[21:57] <SpeedEvil> That then has to be a motorbike.
[21:57] <SpeedEvil> - 'mini moto' and things are not road leal
[21:58] <SpeedEvil> legal
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[21:59] <SpeedEvil> http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?itemId=1084672951&type=RESOURCES
[22:01] <SpeedEvil> In principle, it doesn't look even as bad as an MOT
[22:02] <Laurenceb_> http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0054I8A6E/ref=asc_df_B0054I8A6E5941938?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&tag=hydra0b-21&linkCode=asn&creative=22206&creativeASIN=B0054I8A6E
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[22:04] <SpeedEvil> yeah - I was assuming you wanted something the police couldn't crush if they caught you on the road on. :)
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[22:22] <jcoxon> hmmmm my pressure sensor is reporting 35911Pa
[22:23] <daveake> Can you breath OK?
[22:23] <jcoxon> hehe
[22:23] <jcoxon> temperature looks right
[22:23] <Laurenceb_> http://skymixer.engineering.free.fr/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=51:skymixer25c-quadrotor&catid=47:quadrotors&Itemid=50
[22:23] <jcoxon> not sure whats going on
[22:23] <Laurenceb_> bmp085?
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[22:23] <jcoxon> yeah
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[22:39] <Laurenceb_> http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/raspberry_pi/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=25&_trksid=p3686
[22:40] <Laurenceb_> they are following the same price/time profile
[22:42] <NigeyS> hah £1850
[22:42] <NigeyS> someone has more money than sense
[22:43] <fsphil> !!
[22:43] <jcoxon> hey NigeyS
[22:43] <jcoxon> i've got PicoAtlas6 doing RTTY :-)
[22:44] <NigeyS> hey, nice 1 dude!
[22:44] <Laurenceb_> they are probably going to make at least 20K at this rate
[22:44] <Laurenceb_> but if the bidding goes crazy in the last minutes...
[22:46] <NigeyS> utter madness
[22:48] <SpeedEvil> I'm unsure, but I suspect this may be writeable off against tax in the US
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[22:54] <SparxEtch> I'm gonna wait for the £16 ones.
[23:00] <fsphil> wise
[23:06] <eroomde> evening
[23:06] <eroomde> i just lucked out
[23:06] <eroomde> and i want to share
[23:07] <eroomde> i went to the St John restaurant in smithfield
[23:07] <eroomde> it's really one of my favourites in london
[23:07] <eroomde> was with 2 friends
[23:08] <eroomde> we had a couple of cocktails at the bar before being shown to our table, they put the coctails onthe tab. we then each had a starter, main, and pud, and we shared a pretty nice bottle of burgundy
[23:08] <eroomde> i think we were on for about £80 a head (i've been building up to this meal for 2 months to celebrate some recent happiness)
[23:08] <eroomde> and then abby noticed a bit of glass in her pudding
[23:08] <eroomde> and we told them
[23:09] <eroomde> and carried on with the rest of the wine for about 30 mins
[23:09] <eroomde> then when we asked for the bill, they said the whole thing was free and sorry about the glass
[23:09] <eroomde> RESULT
[23:09] <SparxEtch> Hahaha, wow!
[23:09] <SparxEtch> Best way to kick off a year.
[23:10] <daveake> Excellent. Did you keep the glass for next time? ;)
[23:10] <eroomde> yup!
[23:10] <eroomde> yeah i really should try it more often
[23:10] <daveake> lol
[23:10] <eroomde> i regret not getting a more pricey bottle of wine now :)
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[23:10] <eroomde> they had a blackboard entitles 'odd bottles' which was quite a dry understatement
[23:10] <daveake> Still, £240 food/drink for free ain't bad
[23:11] <eroomde> eg chateux haut brion for £1050
[23:11] <eroomde> hell yeah, i was doing cartwheels
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