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[01:12] <Raul_> Hi
[01:12] <Raul_> I need help guys, where do I connect the 17cm antenna to the arduino emmitter?
[01:13] <Raul_> my internet is deadslow so I hope you can send me a link
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[04:05] <Taz> very quite in here
[04:07] <Darkside> yup
[04:07] <Darkside> Taz: an aussie!
[04:07] <Darkside> well, another aussie :-)
[04:10] <Taz> :)
[04:10] <Darkside> looking at doing a balloon launch?
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[04:15] <Taz> interested in following one and learning about them
[04:16] <Darkside> where are you located?
[04:16] <Darkside> we (Project Horus) do launches out of Adelaide
[04:16] <Taz> adelaide
[04:16] <Darkside> Taz: nice!
[04:16] <Darkside> we'll have to get you out to a launch
[04:17] <Darkside> not sure when the next one is going to be, most likely early jan
[04:17] <Taz> whats the website
[04:17] <Darkside> http://projecthorus.org/
[04:18] <Darkside> we've been doing it for about 2 years no
[04:18] <Darkside> now*
[04:20] <Taz> i didnt think you would be able to launch so closse to adelaide
[04:20] <Darkside> sure can
[04:20] <Darkside> we have to have a NOTAM of course
[04:21] <Darkside> we have to get CASA to issue a NOTAM 48 hours before the launch
[04:22] <Darkside> damn, nothing on the horus blog since 4th december...
[04:22] <Darkside> we really need to do a launch..
[04:23] <Darkside> i want to try and fly a beaglebone based payload before we talk at linuxconf... dunno if we're going to have time though
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[04:24] <Taz> so van anyone launch a baloon im more interested in launching a glider froom high altitude
[04:25] <Darkside> we've thought about that too
[04:25] <Darkside> but CASA will never give you the clearance
[04:25] <Darkside> the only place you'd be able to do it is at woomera
[04:26] <Taz> so the ballons that get launched do they carry a payload like cameras
[04:26] <Darkside> they sure can
[04:26] <Darkside> take a look at the various launch pages
[04:26] <Darkside> theres heaps of videos
[04:27] <Taz> has anyone tried to launch a plane even up north
[04:27] <Darkside> froma balloon? as far as i know no-one has done it
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[04:27] <Darkside> lots of technical challenges to overcome
[04:27] <Darkside> actually supposedly some guys from the register have dropped a plane, but thats about as far as they got
[04:27] <Darkside> nothing about it flying home
[04:28] <Taz> :) i want it to come home :)
[04:28] <Darkside> we had a guy come along to one of out launches who builds model aircraft, and also works out at woomera
[04:28] <Darkside> he was saying you'd need to build a custom air-frame
[04:28] <Darkside> wind speeds up at high altitude are very fast
[04:29] <Taz> the hardest part as i see it would be the freezing temp on things like servos and yes winds
[04:29] <Darkside> yeah
[04:29] <Darkside> -50 degrees as you pass through the tropopause
[04:29] <Darkside> you'd need to replace the grease in every moving part
[04:29] <Darkside> http://vimeo.com/tag:projecthorus
[04:29] <Darkside> theres all the launch videos
[04:30] <Taz> thanks :)
[04:30] <Darkside> so are you a student?
[04:31] <Taz> no a grandfather with to much time :)
[04:31] <Darkside> hehe
[04:31] <Darkside> well, if you're interested in coming along to a launch, let us know
[04:32] <Darkside> i think the next launch is going to be an altitude record attempt (again)
[04:32] <Taz> my main hobby atm is drones i use Ardupilot Mega
[04:33] <Darkside> yeah i've heard about the ardupilot stuff
[04:33] <Darkside> was considering putting one in my parkzone radian
[04:33] <Taz> i can moniter the launch via my scanner
[04:33] <Taz> yeh they work get in radians
[04:33] <Darkside> Taz: does your scanner do sideband?
[04:33] <Taz> no am and fm :(
[04:34] <Darkside> ahh
[04:34] <Darkside> you need sideband to be able to RX the telemetry
[04:34] <Taz> ok
[04:34] <Darkside> we send narrowband RTTY at 434.650MHz
[04:34] <Darkside> though recently we've also been sending APRS packets into the APRS network on 145.175MHz
[04:34] <Taz> ill have to chase up a sw recerver that does uhf
[04:35] <Darkside> yeah, not many scanners to sideband, which is a pain
[04:35] <Darkside> we mostly use amateur radio receivers in our chase cars
[04:35] <Taz> what info can you get from it and is it easy to recieve in the burbs
[04:36] <Darkside> depends on your antenna really - once its up at altitude you can receive it with a 1/4 wave monopole
[04:36] <Darkside> when it gets lower down you need something better
[04:36] <Darkside> all the info on the balloon gets plotted to http://spacenear.us/tracker/ in realtime anyway
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[04:37] <Darkside> almost all of the ballooning people that hang out here use that tracking system
[04:37] <Darkside> the idea being that multiple people can be receiving data, and everyone uploads to a central server, where the data is checked and plotted
[04:37] Nick change: soafee-chan -> spacekitteh
[04:38] <Darkside> that way if we in the chase cars lose reception for some reason, we can still get data through from the other receivers
[04:39] <Taz> is most if the projects originate from schools / uni students
[04:40] <Darkside> some, not all
[04:40] <Darkside> project horus isn't a uni project
[04:40] <Taz> is it a private project
[04:40] <Darkside> i did tie in a launch to a project i was doing at uni
[04:40] <Darkside> yes
[04:40] <Darkside> though we are linked to an amateur radio club
[04:41] <Taz> is info on launches put up here or on the web page
[04:41] <Darkside> as almost all the people involved in project horus (me included) are amateur radio operators
[04:41] <Darkside> Taz: mostly on the webpage
[04:41] <Darkside> we can also get you on the announce mailing list
[04:42] <Darkside> http://projecthorus.org/?page_id=162
[04:42] <Darkside> just stick your info in there and ask to be put on the announce mailing list
[04:44] <Taz> thanks ill put it on
[04:46] <Taz> done :)
[04:47] <Darkside> cool
[04:49] <Taz> thanks for the info and help i must go do some work :( ill talk later
[04:50] <Darkside> cya
[04:51] <Taz> cheers
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[05:57] <Hes> The altitude indicator in the target info balloon on spacenear.us/tracker/ is very neat.
[05:57] <Darkside> we broke that on one flight
[05:58] <Darkside> it used to cap out at 40km, so when Horus 15.5 went above 40km it caused proiblems
[06:05] <Hes> I wonder if anyone minds if I borrow the idea?
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[08:45] <earthshine> o/
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[09:07] <eroomde> Hes: it's open source
[09:07] <eroomde> so you have to ask us for permission
[09:08] <Darkside> hi eroomde
[09:10] <eroomde> good morning Darkside
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[09:18] <eroomde> good evening Darkside
[09:24] <Hes> I was mainly thinking about borrowing the idea, not the actual code. But if permission to borrow code might be available, I would like to ask for permission for that too, of course. :)
[09:28] <staylo> I think he meant to type that you *don't* have to ask permission :)
[09:29] <eroomde> Hes: indeed :) help yourself to anything!
[09:29] <Hes> I wasn't sure if he meant to say it's *not* open source :)
[09:30] <Hes> I might put a similar gauge on aprs.fi's info balloon for things which appear to be flying
[09:30] <eroomde> oh you're behind aprs.fi?
[09:31] <Hes> yes
[09:31] <Upu> hi Hes we just realised aprs.fi is on Ipv6
[09:31] <Upu> our ISP's ipv6 is broken
[09:31] <eroomde> also random question for anyone, does anyone know if you can do something like 'tail -f' over http? so a constantly syncing file that might be changing on a webserver. for example the raw data from a balloon flight on habitat
[09:31] <eroomde> Hes: fantastic
[09:32] <eroomde> that's a really good site
[09:32] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: wget -c - sort of does that
[09:32] <Hes> Upu: yes, it's been for a while, since the world ipv6 day... although the CDN and google don't yet provide their stuff over ipv6
[09:32] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: if you call it every n seconds
[09:33] <eroomde> SpeedEvil: ok thanks
[09:33] <SpeedEvil> And the file simply appends
[09:34] <Darkside> Hes: you are my god
[09:34] <Darkside> aprs.fi is awesome
[09:34] <SpeedEvil> It is awesome!
[09:34] <Hes> Check out beta.aprs.fi, I just opened it again a couple days ago, changes listed at https://groups.google.com/d/msg/aprsfi/UrklpEPaLEg/fp8DzEm3yqwJ
[09:34] <eroomde> we're lucky to have you on this channel too
[09:34] <eroomde> be prepared for balloon-specific feature requests flooding in :)
[09:35] <Darkside> haha
[09:35] <Darkside> 'BAD PATH'
[09:35] <Darkside> EXTREMELY BAD PATH
[09:35] <Darkside> thats all i see when we launch :P
[09:35] <Hes> Well, I have to thank you guys for the awesome flying content you're providing us :)
[09:35] <Hes> :) Don't take it personally
[09:35] <Hes> or use a profile-switching tracker :)
[09:35] <Darkside> well we did fly wide2-2 once
[09:35] <Darkside> which was REALLY bad
[09:36] <Darkside> but yeah, profile switching has been implemented
[09:36] <Hes> I just joined here after the trans-atlantic balloon, realized that we could fly something here too easily
[09:36] <Darkside> it was sad that the transatlantic balloon didn't do proper telemetry
[09:36] <eroomde> where are you based geographically Hes ?
[09:36] <Hes> Helsinki, Finland
[09:37] <eroomde> hrm
[09:37] <Darkside> but a lot of the small aprs trackers don't do telemetry
[09:37] <eroomde> you might be able to get a polar vortex circumnavigation going from up there
[09:37] <UpuWork> fsphil is making one that does do telemetry
[09:37] <eroomde> just
[09:37] <Hes> < 400 gr payloads should be OK without any permits here
[09:37] <Darkside> UpuWork: you mean me and vk5zm are :P
[09:37] <Darkside> we've already flown it
[09:37] <UpuWork> yup
[09:37] <UpuWork> Swift board has provision for it
[09:38] <Darkside> last launch had full telemetry
[09:38] <Hes> I can do my own tracker firmware too, I wouldn't dream of flying something which doesn't have some of my own code running on it :)
[09:38] <Darkside> UpuWork: nah, i mean the APRS telemetry packets
[09:38] <Hes> or at least do some modifications on existing firmware
[09:38] <Upu> ah ok sorry misread
[09:38] <Darkside> Hes: we modified the trackuino code to actually meet aprs standards
[09:38] <eroomde> Hes: that's the spirit
[09:38] <Darkside> and do telemetry
[09:38] <Hes> Ah, excellent
[09:38] <eroomde> you can do a lot with 400g too
[09:39] <Darkside> Hes: http://rfhead.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/MicroAPRS.jpg
[09:40] <Hes> Cute!
[09:40] <Darkside> we've flown them a few times now
[09:41] <Darkside> they work perfectly
[09:42] <Hes> By the way, we've implemented a new telemetry format in aprs.fi, some byonics trackers and aprsis32 - machine readable base91 encoded telemetry which can be put in the comment field of the position packet
[09:42] <Darkside> yeah i think we started on that
[09:42] <Hes> much tighter than plaintext telemetry and doesn't require a separate tlm packet
[09:43] <Hes> (I really should write the specification document and publish it)
[09:43] <Darkside> yup :P
[09:43] <Hes> Ok, lunch time, see you...
[09:43] <Darkside> we'll implement and use it
[09:46] <eroomde> Darkside: what are you plans for 2012?
[09:46] <eroomde> are you gonna be back round these parts any time?
[09:47] <Darkside> i should be at some point
[09:47] <Darkside> not 100% sure when
[09:47] <UpuWork> let us know
[09:47] <UpuWork> we'll have the conference at the same time
[09:47] <eroomde> plan.
[09:48] <Darkside> woo
[09:48] <Darkside> i'll probably be around june-august
[09:48] <Darkside> but not 100%
[09:51] <eroomde> so what are the sexy hab probalems of 2012?
[09:51] <Upu> more women
[09:51] <Upu> as discussed at the conference
[09:51] <eroomde> not sure I can help with that
[09:52] <eroomde> I remember jcoxon's gf being abit bewildered at the last thing she came to
[09:52] <Upu> I need to speak to Rob but I understand he's doing something with Farnell for 2 way comms
[09:52] <eroomde> yeah i was gonna say
[09:52] <Upu> I would say
[09:52] <eroomde> reliable, completely unambiguously legal 2-way comms would be good
[09:52] <Upu> 2012 = smaller, higher , more hydrogen
[09:52] <eroomde> smaller lighter
[09:52] <eroomde> hah
[09:53] <eroomde> if it doesn't weigh 15kg you're not trying hard enough
[09:53] <Upu> lol
[09:53] <Upu> my new antenna setup will weigh something like that
[09:53] <Upu> I just ordered an az/el rotator
[09:54] <eroomde> but yes, i think 2 way comms that's def legal would be good. rocketboy has rightly questioned the use of amateur licenses for uplinks which is what we did for the parachute testing
[09:54] <Upu> so much legislation
[09:54] <eroomde> yeah
[09:54] <Upu> but thats part of the fun working around it
[09:54] <eroomde> even using those nose zigbee 1W devices with a ygai is illegal
[09:55] <Upu> anything with a Yagi is illegal
[09:55] <eroomde> which would also be a nice way of solving the problem
[09:55] <Upu> insurance is a no go
[09:55] <eroomde> well, not really, provided the ERP is still within limits
[09:55] <Upu> no one is even willing to quote
[09:55] <eroomde> i can undersatand that
[09:55] <eroomde> i went through all this several times, and lost a lot of hair, trying to get insurance for the bomb
[09:56] <eroomde> infact i blame my now receding hairline on that
[09:56] <Upu> lol
[09:56] <Upu> well I got a tame insurance broker on the case and he's given up on it
[09:56] <eroomde> HAB has that effect actually
[09:57] <eroomde> compare and contrast
[09:57] <Upu> they are most concerned about landing on a motorway and causing a pile up
[09:57] <eroomde> jcoxon, peg v, 2008
[09:57] <eroomde> http://www.flickr.com/photos/eroomde/478718192/in/set-72157600160879866/lightbox/
[09:57] <eroomde> full head of curly hair
[09:57] <eroomde> 2010, http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/4722632458/in/set-72157624203062811
[09:57] <eroomde> bald patch well on the way
[09:57] <Upu> the fact that the met office launch 10000+ a year and pay out next to nothing
[09:57] <eroomde> yes it's a bit maddening
[09:58] <Upu> lol nice pics
[09:58] <eroomde> heh http://www.flickr.com/photos/eroomde/2501001643/in/photostream
[09:58] <eroomde> sorry memory lane time now
[09:58] <eroomde> badger1 !
[09:59] <Upu> looks better than my first attempt
[09:59] <Darkside> damn this shit internet
[09:59] <eroomde> the first pcb i ever had pro made
[09:59] <Darkside> 3g is horribly congested here
[09:59] <eroomde> it was all acid etch at home/school before that
[10:00] <eroomde> badger 1 reverside side: http://www.flickr.com/photos/eroomde/2501001535/in/photostream
[10:00] <eroomde> venerable lassen iQ, before the days when uBlox got their act together
[10:00] <eroomde> and the super useful telit module
[10:00] <eroomde> texting really was useful, we should do more of that
[10:02] <eroomde> and finally, before i monologue the channel to death, http://www.flickr.com/photos/eroomde/478718274/in/set-72157600160879866
[10:02] <Upu> I just bought an old T94i or something from E-bay
[10:02] <eroomde> the usefulness of bright orange flourescing parachutes
[10:02] <Upu> Sony Ericsson T68i
[10:02] <eroomde> was visible from about 200m away
[10:03] <eroomde> infact you could just about see the parachute from this photo: http://www.flickr.com/photos/eroomde/478718206/in/set-72157600160879866
[10:03] <eroomde> or rather, we could just about see it, though it's lost in the limited resolution of the pic
[10:05] <eroomde> Upu: yeah i think we used a T68i too
[10:05] <eroomde> pre badgerworks
[10:05] <eroomde> they have the convenient serial port on the bottom right?
[10:05] <UpuWork> yup
[10:05] <eroomde> cool
[10:05] <eroomde> perfeck
[10:05] <UpuWork> and they are £10 from E-Bay
[10:05] <eroomde> :)
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[10:28] <navrac> could we use 5.8GHz for an uplink - you can use up to 4W without a license
[10:29] <eroomde> really?
[10:29] <eroomde> 4W feedline power or 4W erp?
[10:29] <spacekitteh> so like, i've had an idea to make like a portable launch pad type thing where everything fits into a cargo container. so far i have included a computer, gps, telemetry radio, tracking radio (or radios in order to triangulate), basic repair equipment like soldering iron + oscilloscope etc, and a detachable pad. anyone got any ideas for what else i should include?
[10:29] <navrac> eirp
[10:29] <eroomde> cos if you could throw 4W of 5.8GHz into a 60cm dish, you'd have about 100e9 dB of gain
[10:29] <eroomde> slight exaggeration
[10:29] <eroomde> oh
[10:29] <eroomde> poosticks
[10:30] <eroomde> well, there's a lot of associated free space path loss with 5.8 compared to 70cm
[10:30] <eroomde> (5800/434)^2 = 180
[10:30] <navrac> well I've done 50 miles on a ground based 5.8 link - the biggest loss being due to the fresnel zone
[10:31] <eroomde> 4W/10mW = 400
[10:31] <eroomde> hrm
[10:31] <eroomde> oh but you can uplink with way more than 4W
[10:31] <eroomde> sorry, way more than 10mW 434
[10:31] <eroomde> so i think something like the 500mW 169MHz that you can use would wipe the floor with your 5.8GHz 4W allowance
[10:32] <eroomde> unless you used a dish, and no one would know probably
[10:32] <eroomde> the perfect crime
[10:32] <UpuWork> spacekitteh tripod/stand to hang payload from
[10:32] <UpuWork> lol
[10:32] <spacekitteh> k ^^
[10:32] <UpuWork> I used a Black and Decker work mate :)
[10:32] <navrac> on 434 the limit is 10mW unliscensed and i'm pretty sure the amateur license doesnt allow you to send only
[10:33] <eroomde> spacekitteh: 13A sockets and 3G
[10:33] <eroomde> the two most missing things and most launches
[10:33] <spacekitteh> http://preview.tinyurl.com/rocketshack this is what i have got so far
[10:34] <eroomde> navrac: indeed
[10:34] <eroomde> but there's also a nice unlicensed allowance of 500mW on 169MHz
[10:34] <UpuWork> invertor can be useful for the car
[10:34] <eroomde> which should get you further
[10:35] <UpuWork> The E-Bay special laptop chargers tend to generate lots of RF noise
[10:35] <spacekitteh> eroomde: 3g for internet, yeah?
[10:35] <eroomde> yeah
[10:35] <UpuWork> yup spacekitteh
[10:36] <eroomde> everyone at alunch site wants internet and electricity for their laptops
[10:36] <eroomde> even when they think they don't
[10:36] <UpuWork> 500w pure sine invertor from Maplins
[10:36] <fsphil> also 12v laptop power supplies tend not to work at 12v -- they need 13.8v
[10:36] <UpuWork> well the Samsung is 19v
[10:36] <UpuWork> so you need a step up
[10:36] <UpuWork> but they cause huge noise on 2 meters
[10:36] <UpuWork> S9
[10:37] <fsphil> my thinkpad needs something like 18v, but the car adaptor I have won't work if the battery voltage drops below 12.5v
[10:37] <fsphil> I have to use an inverter :)
[10:37] <eroomde> or keep the engine on?
[10:37] <fsphil> I usually run it of a separate battery
[10:37] <UpuWork> Well invertor is the best bet
[10:37] <spacekitteh> how much power would an average laptop or a netbook draw?
[10:38] <fsphil> seems a waste going all the way up to 240v AC just to go back to 18v DC
[10:38] <fsphil> but it works
[10:38] <UpuWork> I'd get a 500w peak invertor
[10:38] <eroomde> spacekitteh: "Preferably it would be as airtight as possible to keep the heat out and the cool air in, although windows would be installed. It will need some sort of extra insulation, in order not to boil everyone alive. All the equipment will be attached firmly to the container, so as not to fuck shit up while moving."
[10:38] <eroomde> 1) I would actually do the opposite, loads of ventillation
[10:39] <spacekitteh> hmm, really?
[10:39] <eroomde> those things heat up in sunlight like nothing else, everyone will die unless you have a huge airflow through it
[10:39] <spacekitteh> that's what's the airconditiong's for
[10:39] <UpuWork> " fuck shit up" technical term ?
[10:39] <spacekitteh> but yeah i'm not sure now
[10:39] <eroomde> 2) a lot of the f1 teams now install everything inside flight cases with suspension as shipping can be very very rough
[10:39] <spacekitteh> UpuWork: yep
[10:39] <eroomde> so some kind of shock mounting
[10:40] <navrac> theres a 50dbW license free area at 25.5GHz thats a lot of power
[10:40] <fsphil> how would you generate that?
[10:40] <spacekitteh> eroomde: oh yeah, true
[10:40] <eroomde> and flight cases can be reconfigured inside for that time when your rocket is slighly bigger than you thought you had room for
[10:41] <eroomde> spacekitteh: also, webcam and floodlights
[10:41] <spacekitteh> oooh yes
[10:41] <eroomde> to illuminiate and stream launch prep during the night/dusk/dawn
[10:41] <spacekitteh> yeah ^_^
[10:42] <UpuWork> webcam :)
[10:44] <Randomskk> eroomde: you were asking about a tail -f equivilent for http?
[10:44] <Randomskk> it's called streaming but you can't magic it on the client side - the server has to want to keep the socket open and then keep sending you new data
[10:45] <Randomskk> but you were asking about doing it to get all the new habitat flight data?
[10:45] <Randomskk> because couch has that builtin, it's called the _changes feed, it's how for instance the parser sees new data arriving
[10:45] <eroomde> ok cool
[10:45] <eroomde> that could be the solution then
[10:46] <Randomskk> http://guide.couchdb.org/draft/notifications.html http://wiki.apache.org/couchdb/HTTP_Document_API#A_changes
[10:46] <eroomde> grand
[10:46] <eroomde> thanks
[10:48] <Randomskk> it typically uses a 'filter' which is some JS code server-side that decides what gerts streamed, so that you're not flooded with the whole db
[10:48] <Randomskk> right now there are two: one for the parser, which gives it all new unparsed telemetry, and one for the spacenear.us adapter, which gives it all new parsed telem or something
[10:48] <eroomde> i'd want the parsed one i think
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[10:49] <Randomskk> what I mean to say is that you can write one, it's a couple of lines of js, to give you whatever you happen to want
[10:49] <Randomskk> but yea, if the parsed one suits your purposes that's fine too
[10:49] <eroomde> i just wanted to try and get a KST (realtime plotting kde software, quite nice) session up and running
[10:50] <fsphil> what's the parsed one called? that would probably be more suitable for habhound. I'm streaming everything atm.
[10:51] <Randomskk> sec...
[10:53] <Randomskk> oh, there it is
[10:53] <Randomskk> habitat/spacenear
[10:56] <Randomskk> http://habitat.hahub.org/habitat/_changes?filter=habitat/spacenear&since=DOCID
[10:56] <fsphil> that probably includes most of the data -- what does it not include?
[10:56] <Randomskk> you can also choose between longpoll and continuous feeds
[10:56] <Randomskk> _changes by default just returns right away with all the new changes since your "since" parameter
[10:56] <Randomskk> with continuous it stays open the whole time
[10:56] <fsphil> I have it setup to query the last changes number before it starts
[10:57] <Randomskk> with longpoll it uses an http thing called long polling which is great if your end supports it
[10:57] <fsphil> then it will start with changes=last-100
[10:57] <Randomskk> "spacenear": "function(doc, req) {\n return ((doc.type == \"payload_telemetry\" && doc.data && doc.data._parsed) ||\n doc.type == \"listener_telemetry\");\n}",
[10:57] <fsphil> ah, so user data, or telemetry that has been parsed
[10:57] <fsphil> that's perfect
[11:00] <fsphil> spacenear.us reads the telemetry into a local db doesn't it?
[11:00] <Randomskk> yea
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[11:18] <eroomde> christ
[11:18] <eroomde> apple mac mini
[11:18] <eroomde> 'upgrade' the ssd
[11:18] <eroomde> 256GB SSD [+£320]
[11:18] <eroomde> 2X256GB SSD [+£800]
[11:18] <joph> lol
[11:18] <eroomde> are they innumerate?
[11:18] <joph> typical for apple
[11:19] <joph> you pay just for the name
[11:19] <Randomskk> you really don't, but I think he's pointing out that 2x320 != 800
[11:19] <eroomde> but i seem to be paying more per ssd when i buy more ssds
[11:19] <eroomde> that's the opposite of what's meant to happen
[11:19] <DanielRichman> does the first one replace something else?
[11:20] <eroomde> it's impossible to tell from here
[11:20] <Randomskk> like an £80 spinning disk? :P
[11:20] <eroomde> i will see what ifixit has to say
[11:21] <DanielRichman> btw: be warned, the spacenearus _changes filter... might get renamed.
[11:21] <Randomskk> s/might/will
[11:22] <eroomde> it is just a straight drive swap
[11:22] <eroomde> it turns out
[11:22] <eroomde> which is nice
[11:22] <Randomskk> buy it with the cheap shit spinning disk then replace it with two new decent intel ssds clearly
[11:22] <joph> do a ram upgrade, the price is also funny
[11:22] <Randomskk> well I say that
[11:22] <Randomskk> what's the mac mini for?
[11:23] <eroomde> might be a good server for IT-in-a-box for a group of about 5 people
[11:23] <Randomskk> I hear sad things about macs being servers, but I guess yes
[11:24] <eroomde> one 19" flight case with server, switch, colour laser, NAS, and wifi for everyone
[11:24] <eroomde> what sad things? please tell me now as i cost up different solutions
[11:24] <Randomskk> colour laser printer in a 19" flight case?
[11:24] <Randomskk> mostly about OS X
[11:24] <eroomde> oh and a mast with a dish with a 3G dongle in the focus
[11:24] <eroomde> Randomskk: yes
[11:24] <Randomskk> and it being more of a pain than linux, especially now that Lion Server is basically crap
[11:24] <eroomde> but not rack mount
[11:25] <Randomskk> Snow Leopard Server was fine
[11:25] <eroomde> i'm just starting to read the lion reviews
[11:25] <Randomskk> but apparently Lion Server is rubbish and drops support for loads of stuff
[11:25] <Randomskk> and tbh why would you not have a linux server?
[11:25] <eroomde> and yep it does seem to offer less
[11:25] <eroomde> well, the thing that always gets me is trying to do really simple things
[11:25] <eroomde> like share a 3G modem's internet over wifi
[11:26] <Randomskk> is that even easy to do with OS X?
[11:26] <eroomde> which is super easy on osx and involved about 45mins of faffing with iptables and other configs on ubuntu when i last tried
[11:26] <Randomskk> hmm
[11:26] <eroomde> yeah
[11:26] <Randomskk> you may be faffing wrong
[11:26] <eroomde> sys preferences, sharing, internet
[11:26] <eroomde> share [dropdown: 3G] over [dropdown: wifi]
[11:27] <Randomskk> it shouldn't be that hard on ubuntu. I've done it with like, one or two lines
[11:27] <Randomskk> I think new ubuntu does even have a gui thing
[11:27] <eroomde> the chase car scenario
[11:27] <Randomskk> but I realise that's more of a single example than the entire issue
[11:27] <eroomde> that would be nice
[11:28] <Randomskk> but like, for a group server, a linux really seems like it might be the more obvious choice. you get more for your money and what you get supports all the software you're likely to want etc
[11:28] <eroomde> just need asmall box
[11:29] <eroomde> with either 2x gigE oe gigE and a nas substitute like thnderbolt
[11:29] <Randomskk> surely you want a gigE switch anyway
[11:29] <eroomde> its the formfactor of the mini that appeals
[11:29] <Randomskk> indeed
[11:30] <Randomskk> the form factor is pretty appealing
[11:30] <Randomskk> don't forget the N wifi
[11:30] <Randomskk> I've just ordered a netgear n600, it looks like a really nice upgrade from my wrt54gl
[11:31] <Randomskk> dual band 300mbps n wifi, 4 ports gigE, ADSL model or gigE WAN
[11:31] <eroomde> nice
[11:31] <Randomskk> mainly because my MBA lacks ethernet and even the USB ethernet is 100mbps if I got it
[11:32] <Randomskk> so I want n wifi
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[11:32] <Randomskk> I could have just got a new access point, but having 300mbps n wifi and then connections being limited by 100mbps cable seemed silly
[11:32] <eroomde> cant argue with that
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[11:34] <Randomskk> well the mac mini would be nice on the form factor grounds. what IT does it need to provide? file storage/sharing, print server (or do you get a printer with that builtin?), internet connection sharing, ?
[11:34] <eroomde> all that yes
[11:34] <eroomde> license key store for a few software packages
[11:35] <Upu> redundancy..backup...
[11:35] <eroomde> the file storage would be over a nas for the big stuff
[11:35] <eroomde> i wanted a couple of small ssds for the machine itself just for the responsiveness
[11:36] <Upu> HP are doing a "server" for £250 atm where you get £100 back
[11:36] <eroomde> ?
[11:36] <Upu> OCX Revo's are suppose to be good
[11:36] <Upu> let me find link for HP servers
[11:36] <Upu> http://www.ebuyer.com/281915-hp-proliant-turion-ii-n40l-microserver-100-cashback-658553-421
[11:37] <Upu> £139.99
[11:37] <Upu> lol
[11:37] <Upu> you'll need to put some drives in it but they are in caddies
[11:38] <Upu> 4 bays in that
[11:38] <Upu> so you can put alot of space in and mirror it
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[11:41] <eroomde> interesting
[11:41] <daveake> eroomde / Randomskk for chase-car wifi, I've tried 2 things both worked really well. One was just an Android phone which has a built-in program to share 3G over wifi. Now I use a Zoom 3G/wifi device that has a USB socket for a 3G dongle. Zoom also do an all-in-one thing that just needs a SIM card, but reviews say it's crap.
[11:42] <Randomskk> yea I've used an android with tethering
[11:42] <Randomskk> but you can't usually attach an external antenna
[11:42] <eroomde> daveake: could you provide a link to your current solution?
[11:42] <daveake> Indeed. Which is why I went the Zoom route.
[11:42] <UpuWork> If you run windows try Connectify Me
[11:43] <UpuWork> thats what I use and the laptop acts as a wireless hotspot sharing out its 3G
[11:43] <daveake> Zoom 3G travel router: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Zoom-3G-Wireless-N-Travel-Router/dp/B002SXMH12/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1325158980&sr=8-2
[11:44] <daveake> T-Mobile 3G stick with antenna socket: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/T-Mobile-Broadband-7-2Mbps-USB-Stick-615-Black-Unlocked-/260914864458?pt=UK_Computing_LaptopAccessories_PCMCIACards&hash=item3cbfbce14a#ht_500wt_1413
[11:45] <Randomskk> alternatively on ubuntu or mac you can just share the 3g over wifi fairly easily
[11:45] <eroomde> oo unlocked
[11:45] <Randomskk> but yea, a t-mobile 3g stick with antenna socket
[11:45] <Randomskk> plug that into a laptop
[11:45] <Randomskk> share over wifi
[11:45] <Randomskk> job done
[11:45] <Randomskk> or better yet
[11:45] <Randomskk> share over wired and connect to a switch that has a proper wifi AP on it
[11:45] <Randomskk> so that in normal circumstances the wired is shared over the AP
[11:45] <Randomskk> but when out and about the 3G is shared instead
[11:45] <daveake> Sorry wrong 3G dongle. This is the one I have - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130533506891&ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:GB:1123
[11:45] <Randomskk> proper APs are a lot better than a computer for making a wifi network
[11:46] <eroomde> mmm, this was partly the thinking behind this box
[11:46] <daveake> I believe Windows 7 does the 3G/wifi sharing thing but I've not tried.
[11:46] <eroomde> and one can run all ones services as normal
[11:46] <UpuWork> daveake not properly just put connectify me on and it works great and free
[11:47] <daveake> Nice thing about the Zoom is you just plug it in (and I have a car power adapter for it too) and it works.
[11:47] <daveake> Upuwork ta
[11:47] <daveake> I've bought a new W7 laptop and desktop the last couple of weeks but haven't done much with them yet
[11:48] <UpuWork> Well my car set up is the netbook with 3G built in
[11:48] <UpuWork> Connectify Me for iphone etc
[11:48] <UpuWork> and 500w invertor to make it all work
[11:48] <eroomde> i think my mba 11" is small enough to go on the dash
[11:48] <eroomde> which is cool
[11:49] <daveake> Last bit - one of these - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/9dBi-HIGH-GAIN-CRC9-3G-mobile-broadband-Huawei-antenna-/130516047147?pt=UK_Computing_LaptopAccessories_PCMCIACards&hash=item1e635cd52b#ht_8867wt_1163
[11:49] <eroomde> so i wont need my eeeee anymore
[11:49] <UpuWork> http://www.maplin.co.uk/pure-sine-wave-300w-dc-12v-to-ac-230v-power-invertor-228623
[11:49] <daveake> We use my wife's Samsung tablet for the map, and as it doesn't have 3G we do need wifi in the car
[11:49] <eroomde> daveake: that's perfect
[11:49] <eroomde> thanks
[11:50] <UpuWork> have you bought that yet ?
[11:50] <eroomde> the combo of the modem with connector and antenna
[11:50] <eroomde> and unlocked
[11:50] <daveake> Yes
[11:50] <daveake> Used it to chase Buzz2
[11:50] <daveake> http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveake/6451990603/in/set-72157628276636191
[11:51] <daveake> That was my wife's Picasso as the chase car, as my Pug was off the road. The UHF antenna kept pinging on the Eurochunnel train roof :D
[11:52] <eroomde> bit scared od the loss you get on 4m of RG-174 at 1.8GHz tho
[11:52] <UpuWork> http://stores.ebay.co.uk/chinarf/_i.html?_nkw=huawei&submit=Search&_sid=225703969
[11:52] <daveake> yeah
[11:52] <fsphil> my 3G dongle with antenna is no better than without the antenna. infact I don't believe the antenna socket is connected to anything
[11:53] <daveake> Dash with netbook (for IRC) and Samsung (for map). The car PC was on the floor, and that ran dl-fldigi and the chase car GPS upload. http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveake/6451927407/in/set-72157628276636191
[11:53] <eroomde> how useful did you find the ipad daveake ?
[11:53] <daveake> fsphil - I got identical signal strength figures from the Zoom with no antenna, the mag mount and with a Yagi.
[11:53] <UpuWork> the screen mounted antenna on the NC10 is great
[11:54] <eroomde> daveake: that doesn't surprise me really
[11:54] <UpuWork> with Three network at Elsworth I was getting 4-5Mb/sec
[11:54] <eroomde> rg-174 is really not the stuff for 1.8GHz!
[11:54] <eroomde> UpuWork: that's v impressive
[11:54] <eroomde> what's your dataplan?
[11:54] <daveake> Samsung not ipad. It was awkward to zoom in with fat fingers and bouncy car. Also the map is slow to start up on 3G. So not perfect but OK
[11:55] <UpuWork> eroomde I have a fixed IP address jobbie from Exa Networks
[11:55] <UpuWork> £4 pcm
[11:55] <UpuWork> then 4p a Mb if I use it
[11:55] <UpuWork> comes with one fixed IP, we used them for firewall failovers
[11:56] <daveake> Cheapest bet if you use 3G rarely is T-Mobile. If you use a regular SIM (NOT a broadband one) it's £1 for a day. Broadband one is £2 for a day.
[11:57] <eroomde> ok cool
[11:57] <eroomde> i was going to try giffgaff
[11:58] <eroomde> £7.50 for 1GB for a month. probably only more useful if you're a more regular user
[11:58] <eroomde> but no contract
[11:58] <eroomde> and 2p/MB if you go over your limit which is not bad at all
[11:58] <daveake> My phone is on Tesco who, like Giff Gaff, use O2. I pay £7.50 for 1 month, 1GB max.
[11:58] <UpuWork> anyway lunch time
[11:59] <eroomde> daveake: cool
[11:59] <eroomde> i will try giffgaff probably
[11:59] <daveake> I have a monthly top-up of £10, which they discount ('cos it's regular) to £9. That then gives me £20 of calls/texts to use over the month. Way more than I actually use.
[12:00] <daveake> So it's £9 for the internet, plus calls and texts, and at the end of the month I have £1.50 left over
[12:00] <eroomde> http://giffgaff.com/goodybags/10pound-facebook-goodybag
[12:00] <eroomde> that's what i'm about to switch to on my 3gs
[12:00] <eroomde> unlimited texts and data, 4 hours calls
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[12:00] <daveake> Ah, that's pretty good
[12:00] <eroomde> which is about 3hrs 50mins more calls than i make a month
[12:01] <daveake> I like the "truly unlimited" bit :D
[12:01] <eroomde> :)
[12:02] <daveake> Till last month, Tesco had "unlimited" for £2/week. Then one week I got a text saying I'd gone beyond the "unlimited" limit :p
[12:03] <eroomde> wow
[12:03] <eroomde> orwellian
[12:04] <daveake> Then it got a bit like the Vogon notice in HHGTTG .... the £100 limit was on a single page on their website, and was only visible if you were running IE6 or older !!!
[12:04] <daveake> 100MB not £100
[12:05] <Randomskk> 100MB is a horrible limit
[12:05] <Randomskk> especially for "unlimited"
[12:05] <Randomskk> wow
[12:05] <daveake> Indeed
[12:05] <eroomde> hopeless
[12:05] <eroomde> ditch 'em
[12:05] <daveake> I hit that within 30 mins after tethering to my laptop
[12:06] <daveake> Must say that GiffGaff offer does look tempting
[12:07] <eroomde> yep
[12:07] <eroomde> i'm going tobget my pac code this week
[12:07] <eroomde> i'll get exactly the same as what i was previously paying £35/mo for
[12:07] <eroomde> well, now that my contract has ended anyway
[12:07] <Randomskk> I hear good things about giffgaff from friends on them
[12:07] <daveake> Expect a sequence of "please stay with us" offers from your existing provider
[12:08] <eroomde> if they will drop to £15/mo with a free iphone4s upgrade, i will stay with them
[12:08] <daveake> Starting with a really shit offer, and ending with an OK-ish offer after you've left
[12:08] <eroomde> anything less than that, and i'm off
[12:08] <daveake> Just hold out
[12:08] <daveake> You really have to take it to the wire to get the best offer
[12:09] <eroomde> i'll give it a whirl
[12:09] <daveake> You have nothing to lose :)
[12:09] <eroomde> indeed!
[12:09] <fsphil> for one-off topups, O2 still seem the best
[12:09] <fsphil> if I'm only doing one day mobile a month for example
[12:10] <daveake> Well that's what I use T-Mobile for ... I have a SIM card in my laptop, and if say I'm in a hotel without wifii or where they charge for wifi, I use that. £1.
[12:11] <fsphil> £1 is it, nothing more?
[12:11] <fsphil> that's better than O2 .. they're £2 for 500mb, roughtly
[12:12] <Randomskk> I just use my phone
[12:12] <daveake> Yes. Just get a regular phone SIM for free from their web site. Stick £5 on it and you data usage will be capped to £1 in any one day
[12:12] <Randomskk> and/or wifi tethering
[12:12] <fsphil> daveake, does it time out?
[12:12] <daveake> I bet their T&Cs say no tethering, but I've never had a peep out of anyone for doing it
[12:12] <cuddykid> I'm porting today to 3 - simply because of their truly unlimited data
[12:13] <fsphil> worse thing about O2 is if you don't use all of it, it simply vanishes
[12:13] <daveake> fsphil After 6 months I think it is. You can stop that by making a call or sending a text
[12:13] <cuddykid> oddly enough, they have 3G at my house, all the other providers - mediocre gprs at best
[12:14] <cuddykid> I used a tesco mob sim for the HAB flight :P
[12:14] <daveake> Cloud2 still has a Tesco SIM in it, with ISTR the best part of £20 credit still on it :(
[12:15] <daveake> That's a bounty for whoever finds it :D
[12:15] <cuddykid> haha
[12:15] <cuddykid> I guess the credit on mine has vanished by now
[12:16] <cuddykid> I think it was something like £5 for unlimited texts - needless to say I was continually texting it as it descended below 2km haha
[12:18] <cuddykid> roughly what thickness to you guys think the polycarbonate is here - http://www.gpsboomerang.com/images/gallery/finalapproach.jpg My guestimate is about 5mm :S
[12:18] <daveake> For Cloud2 I had one of the GSM tracker things. You call it and it texts back. I was calling it frantically as Cloud2 descended after the UHF antenna fell off (that's what I think happened, anyway). It finally got a lock 500m up.
[12:19] <daveake> By then it was a few miles out to sea :(
[12:19] <cuddykid> lol
[12:19] <fsphil> ah, antennas falling off. been there done that ;)
[12:19] Action: eroomde suppresses comment
[12:20] <daveake> Ooer, postie has arrived, bearing gifts. Well gift. Well, one of RocketBoy's finest 'chutes :)
[12:20] Action: fsphil learned that lesson well
[12:20] <WillDuckworth> connectors
[12:20] <NickB1> hi guys
[12:20] <eroomde> thsnks WillDuckworth
[12:20] <NickB1> just received my pcb :)
[12:20] <NickB1> http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/930/megahabshield.jpg
[12:20] <eroomde> very nice NickB1 !
[12:20] <daveake> I put a hook in the end as a sort of defence to poking someone's eye out when it lands. I think the 'chute lines pulled it off via the hook
[12:20] <eroomde> what's that in the middle?
[12:21] <eroomde> between the iQ and the NTX2
[12:21] <NickB1> SD card
[12:21] Action: fsphil no longer uses connectors on antennas, at least not outside the payload
[12:21] <cuddykid> lol fshpil
[12:22] <fsphil> although, I don't think the connector failed but my soldering
[12:22] <cuddykid> still amazed how well my complete and utter botch job of an antenna worked
[12:22] <eroomde> ok i will do my broekn record thing
[12:22] <eroomde> if you don't want to throw it down the stairs, consider not flying it
[12:22] <cuddykid> haha, very true
[12:22] <daveake> Mine was the sgai, but I cut the core too short, so I cut that back and soldered on a length of single core. I bet it broke right there
[12:22] <daveake> *shagi
[12:22] <fsphil> it was with that idea that I designed my newer antennas eroomde :)
[12:23] <eroomde> gud :)
[12:24] <eroomde> once i helped some guys launch
[12:24] <eroomde> earlier this year
[12:25] <eroomde> they had sort of read but not understood what a 1/4 wave antenna was
[12:25] <daveake> Right, I'm off to sort out my garage/workshop/storeroom. I may be some time ..... :-)
[12:25] <eroomde> so they had an active element
[12:25] <Randomskk> D:
[12:25] <eroomde> and 4 ground elements
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[12:25] <Randomskk> this story makes me sad
[12:25] <eroomde> but they 4 ground elements were just loose bits of wire
[12:25] <eroomde> hanging down parallel to the active element
[12:25] <eroomde> to make a perfect faraday cage
[12:25] <cuddykid> lol
[12:25] <eroomde> 'well, it worked on the bench...'
[12:26] <eroomde> luckily it was only EADS Astrium who were launching
[12:26] <eroomde> not like you hope they'd know anything about RF
[12:26] <eroomde> i wept on the inside
[12:27] <Randomskk> it looked like https://randomskk.net/u/sad_antenna.png
[12:27] <cuddykid> haha!
[12:29] <Randomskk> we should have got a photo eroomde
[12:34] <Darkside> eroomde: Randomskk was there a backup payload attached?
[12:34] <Darkside> or did they lose it
[12:34] <Randomskk> we pointed out the issue prior to launch
[12:34] <Randomskk> they corrected it and it worked okay after that
[12:35] <Darkside> heh ok
[12:37] <cuddykid> hmm, guys, I don't think this is polycarbonate (what tail and wing tips is made out of) - I've messed around with the material before but haven't got a clue what it's called! Any ideas? http://www.gpsboomerang.com/images/gallery/finalapproach.jpg
[12:38] <cuddykid> thing is - I need that material to be bent round the nose here - http://flic.kr/p/b3eRd8
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[12:48] <BrainDamage> cuddykid: how did you shape the airfoil?
[12:48] <eroomde> cuddykid: it's expanded polypropylene
[12:48] <eroomde> or at least a lot of the 'foamie' model aircraft are
[12:48] <eroomde> very tough and impact resistant
[12:49] <eroomde> often shortened to EPP
[12:49] <eroomde> polycarbonate (or lexan, or something else like tuffak) is usually not expanded, it's a v energy absorbing clear sheet, used in bullet proof glass, riot shields etc
[12:50] <eroomde> ah yes, it is tuffak according to google
[12:50] <eroomde> or makrolon
[12:50] <eroomde> all brand names for polycarbonate
[12:51] <eroomde> if you want a thin skin to shape around the structure, ABS is good
[12:51] <eroomde> you'll want to heat it a bit first
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[13:09] <cuddykid> eroomde: awesome :D thanks
[13:09] <cuddykid> BrainDamage: using a sander
[13:09] <cuddykid> hmm, concerns - the glider already has quite a weight!
[13:10] <cuddykid> it's going to be more like a guided bomb lol
[13:10] <UpuWork> as long as it goes more horizontal for a given unit of vertical you should be good
[13:10] <cuddykid> fingers crossed!
[13:12] <eroomde> indeed
[13:13] <eroomde> a higher ballistic coefficient will give you a bit more attack into the wind too
[13:13] <cuddykid> yeah
[13:14] <cuddykid> as set out in the first few lines of code for autopilot: /* This code will ATTEMPT to get back to specified point */ :P
[13:14] <cuddykid> but may fail spectacularly
[13:14] <eroomde> keeping the nose pointed at the point is probably good enough for attemp #1
[13:15] <cuddykid> yep - I think my hardest task is going to be getting the glider to pull out of the dive / maintain stability at all times (without IMU etc)
[13:16] <eroomde> for that i would just try and make it as stable as possible
[13:16] <eroomde> high wing etc
[13:16] <Upu> try make it "neutrally stable"
[13:16] <eroomde> it'll be difficult to actively control if you've no imu
[13:17] <UpuWork> take it to your local RC club and get them to tow it up
[13:19] <costyn_> UpuWork: clever... that way you can iron out most of the initial silly bugs every project has :)
[13:22] <cuddykid> UpuWork: will do :D
[13:23] <BrainDamage> what will be your control surfaces?
[13:23] <cuddykid> only rudder control - using arduino and gps to work out bearings
[13:24] <eroomde> i'd def try and make it super stable then
[13:24] <UpuWork> no pitch roll yaw sensor ?
[13:24] <eroomde> you want it to fly sweet as a nut, difficult to stable
[13:24] <cuddykid> UpuWork: no :(
[13:24] <eroomde> stall*
[13:24] <UpuWork> hmm
[13:24] <cuddykid> eroomde: yup
[13:24] <UpuWork> put one in and some flaps ?
[13:24] <UpuWork> if it dives vertically
[13:25] <cuddykid> UpuWork: I'm trying to go along the lines of gpsboomerang (the commercial return glider) - he only used rudder
[13:25] <UpuWork> ok
[13:25] <cuddykid> I'm going to see how the test flights go then will decide :)
[13:25] <costyn_> UpuWork: well you should be able ot make a glider that gets itself out of a dive without active input
[13:25] <eroomde> yeah it's certainly possible to do this with just one control input but i bet the boomerang will right it self to glide stably from almost any orientation or tumble
[13:26] <costyn_> UpuWork: student hang-gliders have the trailing edge of the wing pulled up with wires to pull itself out of a dive if it goes too fast
[13:26] <UpuWork> first step I guess, step 2 should be called a "sky crane" its this mad idea I've had about using a crane suspended in thin air to land something
[13:26] <eroomde> totally mad idea
[13:26] <eroomde> ludicrous even
[13:26] <UpuWork> if that works
[13:26] <UpuWork> I am going to be so amazed
[13:27] <costyn_> i don't get it... crane?
[13:27] <eroomde> i'd love to have been at that meeting
[13:27] <UpuWork> sky crane
[13:27] <UpuWork> lol yeah
[13:27] <eroomde> costyn_:
[13:27] <UpuWork> you not see the video ?
[13:27] <costyn_> aaah ... the mars landing thing
[13:27] <UpuWork> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KLxmGLZQSY
[13:27] <UpuWork> epic mission
[13:27] <UpuWork> Lasers CHECK
[13:27] <UpuWork> out there landing system CHECK
[13:28] <UpuWork> Mars yeah baby!
[13:28] <BrainDamage> that looks a lot like movies/videogames
[13:28] <eroomde> it is a nuclear powered laser tank
[13:28] <BrainDamage> in particular, dune comes to mind
[13:28] <UpuWork> I forgot the nuclear powered part
[13:28] <eroomde> but yes, a v interesting idea
[13:28] <eroomde> but then i guess airbags were too
[13:28] <eroomde> back before we realised they were pretty good
[13:29] <eroomde> for small things anyway
[13:29] <costyn_> pfff... yea that's mad as were the airbags
[13:29] <costyn_> it's so crazy it just might work
[13:30] <eroomde> it's just a heck of a mission to risk it on
[13:30] <UpuWork> yep
[13:31] <eroomde> they tried airbags out on just an engineering demonstrator that was quite cheap, which was pathfinder
[13:34] <UpuWork> I hope they stream it live
[13:34] <eroomde> :)
[13:34] <UpuWork> Are there cameras on the decent stage ?
[13:34] <eroomde> that ould be awesome
[13:34] <eroomde> but i doubt they will
[13:35] <eroomde> there is one yes
[13:35] <eroomde> but it looks down at the ground
[13:35] <eroomde> to get a rough map of where they land for the scientists
[13:35] <costyn_> well if it goes spectacularly wrong, I'm sure they'll want footage to figure out later what went wrong
[13:35] <eroomde> you would never ever get a purely engineering video camera past the panels that decide what you can spend weight on
[13:35] <eroomde> sadly
[13:36] <Randomskk> haha that's crazy
[13:39] <eroomde> i'd love to see one upward facing to see the chute deploy
[13:39] <eroomde> that would be really useful data
[13:39] <UpuWork> well yeah thats your area of interest
[13:39] <eroomde> both MERs and phoenix had chute problems
[13:40] <eroomde> but again it doesn;t really deliver science so it doesn't get allowed in
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[14:41] <eroomde> daveake: thanks for all the 3g advice earlier
[14:41] <eroomde> it has helped me make a better decision
[14:41] <Randomskk> what're you doing now?
[14:42] <Randomskk> this flight case sounds like it's going to be a lot of fun
[14:42] <eroomde> :)
[14:42] <Randomskk> also hugely stealable, you should get a lock :P
[14:42] <eroomde> yup i was wondering about that
[14:42] <eroomde> more concerned with encryption really
[14:42] <Randomskk> encryption is definitely a good idea. if it has 3g and a GPS then you could also have some fun there
[14:43] <eroomde> uhuh
[14:43] <Randomskk> OS X lion will do full disk crypto very easily
[14:43] <Randomskk> on the NAS it's more up in the air
[14:43] <Randomskk> though you could just use thunderbolt on the mac mini to an external drobo or something
[14:43] <Randomskk> and then use os x full disk crypto
[14:43] <eroomde> as for what, probably the 3g usb dongle into a nat box which'll go to a switch with an N AP
[14:43] <Randomskk> sounds good
[14:44] <eroomde> and a directional 3g antenna for the usb modem when necessary
[14:44] <Randomskk> the NAT box is an actual computer or a router thing?
[14:44] <Randomskk> because if the latter you can probably get it with the n wifi builtin etc
[14:44] <eroomde> yes the macbook air does have a few set and forget advantages
[14:44] <daveake> eroomde no problemo
[14:44] <Randomskk> I think a lot of newer router/wifi things now have USB sockets that work with USB 3G dongles
[14:44] <eroomde> oh really?
[14:45] <eroomde> that could be very good idneed
[14:45] <Randomskk> I've never done it but I believe it is doable
[14:45] <Randomskk> it may or may not involve running something like openwrt on the router, but that's usually a nice idea anyway
[14:45] <Randomskk> however I think more and more just work with it
[14:45] <Randomskk> depends on what kind of level of sophistication you want on the networking gear too, really
[14:45] <Randomskk> having a separate AP has some advantages in that you can later swap it out or whatever
[14:56] <daveake> I trust you will be using an appropriate SSID .... something like "MI6 surveillance van"
[14:56] <SpeedEvil> RIAA surveilance van.
[15:05] <fsphil> I seem to have started a theme in our area for AP names. I called mine firestorm, friend of mine called his snowstorm
[15:05] <fsphil> last time I looked there where about 6 *storm networks
[15:05] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[15:37] <cuddykid> must remember about the 0 degree line when creating function that calculates distance between 2 3D points
[15:37] <cuddykid> might end up with - distances otherwise :P
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[15:39] <SpeedEvil> Don't forget +/-180 too
[15:39] <SpeedEvil> Though that would be a fairly long flight.
[15:42] <cuddykid> what's the +/- 180?
[15:42] <cuddykid> ohh
[15:43] <cuddykid> yeah
[15:43] <cuddykid> :P
[15:43] <cuddykid> something would've gone horribly wrong lol
[15:45] <cuddykid> I guess the euclidean distance will do.. certainly don't need anything heavy involving curvature of earth
[15:50] <russss> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haversine_formula fwiw
[15:50] <russss> I was just talking about that in another channel, weird.
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[15:52] <cuddykid> lol
[15:52] <cuddykid> thanks
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[15:52] <cuddykid> found a nice function from ardupilot :)
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[16:03] <cuddykid> wow - never realised what a diabolical mess typecasting a float to an int produces
[16:03] <eroomde> cool, Randomskk o2 has a nice coverage checker now
[16:03] <cuddykid> somehow 104990.93 (float value) gets casted into -6260 something
[16:03] <Randomskk> eroomde: neat
[16:03] <Randomskk> cuddykid: woah what
[16:03] <eroomde> a reasonably high fidelity map of signal strength
[16:04] <cuddykid> Randomskk: yeah, extremely weird :S
[16:04] <cuddykid> float = 104990.93
[16:04] <Randomskk> cuddykid: how are you casting? into what int type? in what language?
[16:04] <cuddykid> arduino c
[16:04] <cuddykid> using (int)variable
[16:04] <eroomde> Randomskk: the moral is, if you have a dish for 3g, point it at cambourne
[16:04] <eroomde> so back at the water toqwer
[16:04] <eroomde> i guess the other side of the treeline is the better place to park for this
[16:04] <cuddykid> gives me int = -26082
[16:05] <Randomskk> cuddykid: try long int
[16:05] <eroomde> infact the tower is on the water tower itself
[16:05] <NigeyS> eroomde !
[16:05] <cuddykid> ahh, yeah, off :D thanks Randomskk
[16:05] <cuddykid> *ofc
[16:05] <Randomskk> eroomde: oh, neat
[16:05] <Randomskk> I guess it is an obvious place
[16:05] <eroomde> promising for giffgaff 3g-age
[16:05] <eroomde> NigeyS: yo
[16:05] <Randomskk> eroomde: I expect an autorotating dish for 3g that comes up on a little automatic mast from your flight case
[16:06] <Randomskk> with beeping noises and LEDs
[16:06] <cuddykid> Randomskk: bingo :)
[16:06] <Randomskk> cuddykid: hehe. arduino ints are shorter than you expect
[16:06] <Randomskk> 65536 oor something
[16:06] <Randomskk> annoying but there you go
[16:06] <cuddykid> are they 16bit ints?
[16:06] <Randomskk> yea by default iirc.
[16:06] <Randomskk> well
[16:06] <Randomskk> not "by default". yes, they are
[16:07] <Randomskk> for some reason... the platform is 8bit so you'd almost expect them to be 8 bit ints
[16:07] <Randomskk> but there you go
[16:07] <cuddykid> glad that was found out now rather than in flight! Could have lead to some nasty behaviour!
[16:07] <Randomskk> indeed :P
[16:07] <cuddykid> when the arduino realises it only has -26082m to go.. wahh!
[16:07] <eroomde> cuddykid: there will be 457 more things like that between you and success
[16:08] <cuddykid> eroomde: indeed :( all part of the fun :P
[16:08] <eroomde> good idea to plan some tests of the entire system first
[16:08] <Randomskk> and also you will find 456 of them
[16:08] <cuddykid> lol yeah
[16:08] <Randomskk> and you'll find the 457th mid flight
[16:08] <Randomskk> as it crashes
[16:08] <Randomskk> D:
[16:09] <NigeyS> lol Randomskk
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[16:25] <cuddykid> hmm next problem - when doing pythag on the horizontal distance and altitude difference, the numbers generated in the squaring process are even too big for longs
[16:26] <Randomskk> long long :X
[16:26] <Randomskk> or you could use a double float
[16:26] <Randomskk> or a normal float.
[16:26] <cuddykid> longlong& forgot about that!
[16:26] <cuddykid> 64bit?
[16:28] <cuddykid> no long long in arduino :(
[16:28] <cuddykid> float is only 32bits I thikn
[16:29] <cuddykid> bbl
[16:29] <Randomskk> "double" might work
[16:29] <Randomskk> might.
[16:29] <Randomskk> probably not though
[16:29] <Randomskk> arduino isn't really designed for that
[16:30] <Randomskk> rearrange your maths or scale everything
[16:30] <Randomskk> do the calculations in dacametres instead of metres
[16:30] <Randomskk> or whatever
[16:30] <fsphil> avr-gcc can do int64's
[16:30] <fsphil> although bitshifting is buggy with them
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[18:58] <cuddykid> I guess I'm going to have to loose 10m accuracy to do the required calc
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[19:59] <cuddykid> right - using floats and lots of typecasting I have traded processing time for accuracy
[20:06] Action: Laurenceb_ takes a look at his code
[20:06] Action: Laurenceb_ just had ~20m of fence blow over :(
[20:07] <cuddykid> eek
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[20:07] <Laurenceb_> just spent ~£1K on materials
[20:07] <Laurenceb_> to fix it :(
[20:07] <Laurenceb_> - doing it properly this time with decent posts etc
[20:08] <cuddykid> :O
[20:08] <fsphil-laptop> you still getting bad wind over there?
[20:09] <Laurenceb_> crazy bad
[20:09] <Laurenceb_> blew the roof of a factory down the road
[20:10] <fsphil-laptop> eek indeed
[20:10] <Raul_> Hello
[20:10] <Laurenceb_> hi
[20:10] <Raul_> Anyone knows how would light rain affect a weather balloon during flight?
[20:11] <cuddykid> the wind has picked up here too
[20:11] <cuddykid> Raul_: I guess provided your payload can resist the elements ok, you should be good
[20:12] <cuddykid> it would only be below rain for a few mins
[20:12] <cuddykid> with regards to balloon - I presume it would be ok, but no expert :P
[20:12] <Laurenceb_> cuddykid: http://pastie.org/3092067
[20:12] <Raul_> Thx, I supose as it goes up the raindrops on the camera lense will drift off
[20:13] <fsphil-laptop> Raul_, my balloon got soaked before the last launch. no effect on that
[20:13] <fsphil-laptop> the payload was kept dry though
[20:13] <Raul_> ok, I want to launch on the 31st but looks like the possibility of light rain in the morning is 50%
[20:13] <Laurenceb_> how i do navigation
[20:14] <Raul_> Well, I shall get soked filling it up then :)
[20:14] <cuddykid> Laurenceb_: interesting that you use eeprom write etc.. I was thinking about that today but can't see any need for it in my code, why did you pop it in ?
[20:15] <cuddykid> nice Laurenceb_
[20:15] <Raul_> What is the range of a NTX2-434.075-10 transmitter?
[20:15] <cuddykid> Raul_: unbelievable :P
[20:15] <Laurenceb_> cuddykid: i use it to save wind data during ascent
[20:15] <Raul_> :P
[20:16] <cuddykid> Laurenceb_: ahh yes, I see now :) thanks
[20:16] <cuddykid> how did you get reliable wind data on ascent?
[20:16] <cuddykid> that's another thing I've been puzzling over!...
[20:19] <fsphil-laptop> Raul_, depends how you use it. FSK with a nice low baud rate, and an SSB receiver, can be decoded over silly ranges (>700km with good geography)
[20:19] <Laurenceb_> recorded average velocity over 140m intervals
[20:19] <Laurenceb_> i also store flight status info in eeprom
[20:20] <Laurenceb_> so it can recover from a power failure or watchdog reset
[20:21] <Laurenceb_> i set an optimal waypoint for each altitude
[20:21] <Laurenceb_> to account for wind induced drift
[20:21] <Laurenceb_> line 97
[20:22] <Laurenceb_> origionally i did the integration during cutdown, and then took layers off it during flight
[20:23] <Laurenceb_> but that meas a watchdog reset will screw it up - so i did it that way as its not horribly slow
[20:24] <cuddykid> Laurenceb_: ahh I see, that's neat
[20:24] <Laurenceb_> DESCENT_CONSTANT needs to be reasonably accurate
[20:25] <cuddykid> Unless I did the same with recording winds, my code should be fine with a reset
[20:25] <Laurenceb_> i had a kalman filter estimating it on the first flight as i didnt know it very well from tests
[20:25] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[20:25] <Laurenceb_> but i have flight data now so its just a header
[20:25] <cuddykid> yep
[20:25] <Laurenceb_> - a #define even
[20:26] <cuddykid> did you find it was (reasonably) accurate? the wind data that is
[20:28] <Laurenceb_> yes, i had 100m altitude layers to start with
[20:28] <Laurenceb_> but since then ive written a script to process loads of balloon flights
[20:28] <Laurenceb_> and it truns out on average recording over 140m layers is best
[20:28] <Laurenceb_> linear interpolation off the nearest layers helps a little
[20:29] <Laurenceb_> but any more complex interpolation schemes like cubic spline are not worth the effort
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[20:51] <Laurenceb_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_C._Hoagland#The_Norwegian_spiral
[20:51] <Laurenceb_> lulwut
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[20:55] <Raul_> Anyone used dl-fldigi?
[20:59] <Upu> once or twice
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[20:59] <Upu> got a query with it ?
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[21:04] <daveake> I guess not
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[21:10] <Raul_> Can't get dl-fldigi to work :(
[21:10] <daveake> Which means ...
[21:12] <Raul_> Hey dave!:)
[21:12] <Raul_> I got the arduino and a NTX2-434 transmitter with barometer, higrometer and temperature sensor.
[21:13] <Raul_> I am getting a good signal on the dl-digi (last night it was transmitting the information fine!) but now it's nonsence
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[21:13] <Raul_> I belive I missed some settings, using RTTY custom
[21:13] <Raul_> bits per character 7, 50 baud rate
[21:13] <daveake> Well check they match what you're transmitting, of course.
[21:13] <Raul_> parity 1, stopbits 1.5
[21:14] <Upu> has your transmitter got the lines the wrong way round ?
[21:14] <Upu> press RV
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[21:14] <Raul_> Nothing happening with RV
[21:15] <Upu> does it sound like RTTY ?
[21:15] <fsphil-laptop> is your shift correct?
[21:15] <Upu> record a minute or two
[21:15] <Upu> and upload it and I'll take a look
[21:15] <daveake> Also, with my AR8000 at least, a couple of times I've tuned in the "wrong side" of the transmitted frequency I think and although the waterfall looks OK it sounds "dull" and doesn't decode
[21:15] <Upu> or if you're running Windows I can use our remote support tool to take a look
[21:16] <Raul_> ok, Win7, how do I do that?
[21:16] <daveake> That happened on my first launch ... thought the transmitter was FUBAR but it was my fault in tuning.
[21:16] <Upu> record the wave ?
[21:17] <Upu> click file - > audio -> record
[21:17] <Upu> sorry RX capture
[21:17] <Upu> record 2 mins
[21:17] <Upu> then stop it and upload it somewhere
[21:17] <Raul_> K U K U U U qU qqK K K K K U K U U K U UOmu2igk UUK UU UK 5UU UK UUK UUqUU|UUU UK UUK UUU UUU UUqUUU
[21:17] <Upu> thats not a wav file :)
[21:18] <daveake> :D
[21:18] <daveake> I'll hum that tune in 3
[21:18] <Raul_> I know, just wanted to drop that in
[21:18] <eroomde> that does look just like 'Rv'
[21:19] <eroomde> oh well
[21:19] <Upu> sure all will be revealed when we have the wav
[21:21] <Raul_> Dave :) could you tell me if rain has any significant impact on a balloon flight? other than getting the people launching soked?
[21:22] <daveake> I've avoided the rain so far, so no :)
[21:22] <daveake> Though one payload did get a good soaking ... :p
[21:23] <Raul_> http://www.2shared.com/audio/rSAXRKKk/capture.html
[21:23] <eroomde> i've done a few rain launches
[21:23] <eroomde> a few drizzles, a few december torrentials
[21:24] <eroomde> i have no hard data upsettingly, but they all seem to burst surprisingly low
[21:24] <eroomde> i think the water on the latez probably turns to ice and stops the latex being so stretchy
[21:24] <Raul_> now my launchdate is 31st this month, so happy new year!
[21:25] <fsphil-laptop> I was hoping the soaking my balloon got would burst it early, but it didn't !
[21:25] <fsphil-laptop> that so doesn't sound right Raul_
[21:25] <fsphil-laptop> (the wav file)
[21:26] <eroomde> fsphil-laptop: what time of year did you launch?
[21:26] <fsphil-laptop> eroomde, november
[21:26] <fsphil-laptop> got soaked, and was freezing
[21:26] <eroomde> launchign in december, the water was probably frozen by 1000-2000m, before the low pressure boiled it off
[21:26] <fsphil-laptop> not a good combination :)
[21:26] <eroomde> hmm odd
[21:26] <eroomde> oh well
[21:26] <eroomde> like i said, i have no scientific data
[21:26] <fsphil-laptop> it was snowing that night
[21:27] <Upu> Raul there is a huge amount of noise on that
[21:27] <Upu> and it does't sound right
[21:27] <Upu> what should the shift be ?
[21:27] <Upu> you have 2 carriers on there ?
[21:27] <fsphil-laptop> = 23.30, P = 99203.00, A = 178.16, D = 22.94, H = 33.05
[21:27] <Raul_> 425
[21:28] <fsphil-laptop> the middle two carriers decode, but there's something very bad happening there
[21:29] <Upu> yeah I can decode too but its horribly noise
[21:29] <Upu> 177.14, D = 22.94, H = 33.
[21:29] <fsphil-laptop> if that noise is coming from the payload, there's no way you'll be able to decode that at distance
[21:29] <Raul_> the squelch was set on minimum
[21:30] <fsphil-laptop> this is what it should sound like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ua21FSnIXc
[21:30] <Upu> Just recording some for you so you can play it back
[21:31] <Raul_> I had the same problem earlier today, then did something and it started displaying data. Now I had to put in the settings again and it's not working
[21:32] <fsphil-laptop> you need to fix whatever is causing that noise
[21:32] <fsphil-laptop> it's seriously bad
[21:32] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/files/capture.wav
[21:32] <Upu> thats what its meant to sound and look like just select Playback in dl-fldigi
[21:33] <Raul_> could it be the 3G internet card on my laptop 40 cm away from the receiver/sender?
[21:33] <fsphil-laptop> it looks more like the noise is coming from the payload
[21:33] <Upu> turn it off
[21:33] <Upu> yep
[21:33] <Upu> I'd agree
[21:33] <Upu> as it dies off at the same time as the signal
[21:33] <daveake> I was about to say the same :-)
[21:33] <fsphil-laptop> how are you driving the ntx2?
[21:34] <Raul_> ok, be back in 5 mins
[21:34] <Raul_> arduino+ breadbord
[21:34] <Upu> check my Antenna : http://imagebin.org/190887
[21:35] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[21:35] <fsphil-laptop> can you ear the signal ok?
[21:35] <Upu> Rob can pick it up 10 miles away
[21:35] <Upu> there is a wire in there
[21:36] <Upu> just put the cotton bud on it so I wouldn't spike myself when messing about with the board
[21:36] <daveake> :D
[21:38] <daveake> If you have a metal filling, get it tuned to 434.65Mhz then you can try decoding yourself :)
[21:38] <Upu> lol
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[21:38] <fsphil-laptop> or jab yourself in the ear
[21:38] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[21:38] <Upu> evening Lunar
[21:38] <Lunar_Lander> finally back home!
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[21:39] <Lunar_Lander> oh Raul is here too?
[21:39] <Upu> was
[21:39] <fsphil-laptop> there is no Raul
[21:39] <Upu> this is not the Raul you are looking for
[21:39] <daveake> We never see you two at once ...
[21:39] <fsphil-laptop> lol
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[21:39] <Upu> doh
[21:39] <fsphil-laptop> oh wait
[21:39] <Lunar_Lander> well I have been visiting him the past three days
[21:39] <Lunar_Lander> hello Raul_
[21:39] <fsphil-laptop> so you broke his payload ;)
[21:40] <daveake> :D
[21:40] <Lunar_Lander> no
[21:40] <Upu> he has a noisy payload
[21:40] <Lunar_Lander> bad weather
[21:40] <Raul_> Hi LL, looks like you have internet now
[21:40] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[21:40] <Lunar_Lander> noisy?
[21:40] <Upu> very noisy
[21:40] <Raul_> no, it's absolutley the same I don't remember the exact settings
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> so dl-fldigi doesn't understand the payload anymore?
[21:41] <Upu> signal is noisy as hell Lunar
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[21:41] <Raul_> RTTY Custom, Baudrate 50, Shift 415, Parity 1, Stopbits 1.5 ?
[21:41] <Upu> something interfering
[21:41] <daveake> Not dl-fldigi's fault
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> stop bits 0
[21:41] <Upu> nothing to do with your choice of settings
[21:41] <daveake> Raul_ what happened when you switched off the Tx?
[21:42] <Raul_> wait for a second please
[21:42] <daveake> tick
[21:42] Last message repeated 2 time(s).
[21:42] <daveake> :)
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander> I'd suggest that he should use Upu's photos to build up the radio circuit once more
[21:42] <fsphil-laptop> would a foil balloon have enough lift to get a gopro in the air I wonder
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander> sometimes with me, the radio would be silent
[21:42] <Upu> I'd take a step back
[21:42] <Raul_> I can't select stopbits 0
[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> then I have to build the circuit from scratch
[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> and then it works again
[21:43] <Upu> rebuild the radio and just make a hi/lo piece of code
[21:43] <Upu> check you get 2 nice parallel lines with no noise and with the shift you are expecting
[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> Upu he can't reprogram the arduino
[21:43] <Upu> why ?
[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> i preprogrammed it and gave it to him
[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> and it worked yesterday
[21:43] <Upu> Genuine Arduino
[21:43] <Upu> ?
[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> yes, original Arduino Uno
[21:43] <Upu> just grab a USB cable and the software
[21:44] <Upu> send him the code
[21:44] <fsphil-laptop> how is the ntx2 wired up?
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[21:44] <Upu> show us a picture, a nice detailed one
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil-laptop: like in Upu's tutorial
[21:44] <Upu> top down
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[21:45] <Lunar_Lander> Upu can it be that if the resistor legs touch somewhere that the circuit breaks down?
[21:45] <Upu> my tutorial needs amending its overly complex you don't need the bias resistor really
[21:45] <Upu> yep
[21:45] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:45] <Upu> but I've not seen that behaviour
[21:45] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:45] <Upu> you are getting some sort of signal just with huge interefance above and below
[21:45] <Upu> spelling
[21:45] <Upu> reset the module, check the voltages are ok
[21:45] <Upu> reseat
[21:46] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:46] <Raul_> I had the same problem this morning, then it was ok now it's bad again
[21:46] <Upu> loose connection, faulty module ?
[21:46] <Upu> is it on breadboard ?
[21:46] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[21:46] <Upu> figures
[21:46] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:46] <Lunar_Lander> it was just an adhoc idea of mine to send the arduino along
[21:46] <Upu> spend 1/2 your time fixing issues with the breadboard
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[21:47] <Lunar_Lander> yea, better solder it somewhere right?
[21:47] <Lunar_Lander> in the future I mean
[21:47] <Upu> well as soon as you can get it on something solid the better
[21:47] <Raul_> Avabile stopbit options: 1, 1.5 and 2
[21:47] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[21:47] <Lunar_Lander> it's 1
[21:48] <Upu> Raul_ :) ignore the bits at the moment you have bigger issues
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> Raul_: take Upu's tutorial and pull out the NTX2 and the four resistors
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> then build it up again
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> leave the sensors and cables
[21:48] <Raul_> where is the tutorial for the wiring? I need a link, my internet is to slow to search anything
[21:49] <Lunar_Lander> one moment
[21:49] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[21:49] <Lunar_Lander> yes
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[21:55] <Raul_> looks fammiliar? K K K K K K K
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[22:00] <Upu> still got the noise ?
[22:00] <Upu> i.e 4 lines ?
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[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> still there?
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> Pidgin craps out again
[22:03] <eroomde> funny that the noise produces KK K K K KK K K
[22:03] <eroomde> maybe it's a
[22:03] <eroomde> white noise supremecist
[22:03] <eroomde> i'll see myself out
[22:04] <daveake> :D
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[22:04] <Raul_> now I got 1 data line
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> can you copy the line to here?
[22:04] <Upu> Randomskk how many lines ?
[22:04] <Upu> sorry
[22:05] <Upu> Raul_
[22:05] <Upu> how many lines on the waterfall ?
[22:05] <Randomskk> ?
[22:05] <Randomskk> nvm
[22:05] <eroomde> autocomplete fail
[22:05] <Raul_> 1
[22:05] <Upu> 1 ?
[22:05] <Upu> sorry Adam I failed
[22:05] <Raul_> I can barely see anything, the lighting is horrible
[22:06] <Upu> you should have 2 :)
[22:06] <Upu> in dl-fldigi
[22:06] <Upu> on the water fall
[22:06] <Upu> send us a screen shot
[22:06] <daveake> Should have zero if he's turned Tx off as requested
[22:06] <Upu> ah ok
[22:06] <Upu> sorry
[22:06] <daveake> It's ok, I'm not sure where we're at right now
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[22:07] <Lunar_Lander1> Raul_: pull out the NTX2 and resistors and put that back together
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[22:12] <Raul_> ok, back to two datastreams on the waterfall
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[22:12] <Lunar_Lander> Raul_: my internet fails
[22:12] <Lunar_Lander> :(
[22:12] <Lunar_Lander> damn synchronization
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> it failed before christmas also
[22:13] <Raul_> now 2 datastreams on waterfall
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> move the cursor on them
[22:13] <Upu> lets have another wav recording Raul_ please
[22:14] <Lunar_Lander> Upu how much did you get about my DS18B20 story?
[22:14] <Lunar_Lander> I think the internet cut out inbetween
[22:14] <Upu> none Lunar
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> hm
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> wait
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> can you read me now?
[22:17] <Upu> you're breaking up Lunar_Lander
[22:17] <Upu> [22:16] <Lunar_Lander> c n y u re d me n w?
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> oh crap
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> what the hell is happening
[22:18] <Upu> lol
[22:18] <Upu> pulling your leg man
[22:18] <Raul_> yes we can read you
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> yea and I was pulling my hair
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> OK I wrote this
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> (21:53:29) Lunar_Lander: Upu I got a question on that though
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> (21:54:01) Lunar_Lander: I took the DS18B20 and wanted to make an (also adhoc) lead to the outside
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> (21:54:17) Lunar_Lander: so I took six male-to-female wires and put them together to made a long string of three lines
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> (21:54:25) Lunar_Lander: and then I inserted the sensor into that
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> (21:54:45) Lunar_Lander: in the breadboard was the 4.7kOhm resistor bridging DATA and VCC and from the breadboard it went into arduino
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> (21:54:49) Lunar_Lander: setup clear so far?
[22:19] <Upu> sorta
[22:19] <Upu> why 6 wires ?
[22:19] <Upu> you only need 3
[22:19] <daveake> e d to e d
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> yes I made a double extension
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> wires into breadboard
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> then the second set of wires attached to these
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> and then the sensor
[22:20] <daveake> Live dangerously :)
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:20] <Upu> http://imagebin.org/190893
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> and then the ON lamp went dim on arduino
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> and a burning smell developed
[22:21] <Upu> well
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> btw, I didn't miss out the resistor
[22:21] <Upu> without understanding exactly what you're on about I think you have an issue
[22:21] <Upu> that circuit is all you need really
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> yea, I thought it would be similar to solder on three wires to the sensor as a lead to get it out of a payload
[22:21] <Upu> 3 wires to the external temp
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:21] <daveake> Yep
[22:22] <Upu> note Jp6 its a plug
[22:24] <Upu> ok afk for a bit
[22:24] <daveake> That diagram shows the DS18B20 viewed from above, not from below the pins. Did you wire it in reverse?
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[22:27] <daveake> *Lunar_Lander quits #highaltitude to put out the fire
[22:27] <cuddykid> lol
[22:27] <cuddykid> I've smoked out the arduino before
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[22:28] <daveake> L n r_L nd r, did you see ... <daveake> That diagram shows the DS18B20 viewed from above, not from below the pins. Did you wire it in reverse?
[22:34] <fsphil-laptop> I ust ge my inter t fi e o e of the e day
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[23:10] <Laurenceb_> <dezent> Laurenceb_: there is porn everywhere :)
[23:10] <Laurenceb_> <Laurenceb_> what were you doing on my desktop ?!
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[23:12] <Lunar_Lander1> hello again
[23:12] <Lunar_Lander1> what is the status?
[23:12] <Lunar_Lander1> please
[23:15] <Darkside> of what?
[23:15] <Lunar_Lander1> of Rauls payload
[23:15] <Lunar_Lander1> and of you of course Darkside
[23:15] <Lunar_Lander1> did you have a good christmas?
[23:16] <Darkside> yeah
[23:16] <Lunar_Lander1> cool, me too
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[23:17] <Darkside> currently debugging some annoying pppd issues on a pc i'm setting up in whyalla atm
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[23:19] <Lunar_Lander1> yea
[23:19] <Lunar_Lander1> wb Raul_ how is your status?
[23:19] <Raul_> same thing
[23:19] <Raul_> moved stuff around
[23:20] <Lunar_Lander1> yes
[23:20] <Lunar_Lander1> even after rebuilding it won't work?
[23:21] <Raul_> same
[23:21] <Lunar_Lander1> damn
[23:22] <Lunar_Lander1> the blue wire goes to Pin 4 and the yellow one to pin 5?
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[23:24] <Lunar_Lander1> The last time I had only one line, I made the error to plug one of the wires into pin 3 which was not set of course
[23:25] <daveake> How many lines now, with the transmitter on and also with it off?
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[23:28] <Raul_> LL still here?
[23:28] <Lunar_Lander1> yes
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[23:28] <Lunar_Lander1> can you read me Raul_?
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[23:29] <Lunar_Lander1> daveake: can you read me?
[23:29] <daveake> Y s I c n
[23:29] <Lunar_Lander1> DAMN!
[23:30] <fsphil-laptop> hi a da e!
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[23:30] <Lunar_Lander1> hello Raul_
[23:30] <daveake> But I think Raul's internet is powered by his NTX2
[23:30] <Raul_> hi
[23:30] <Raul_> you have a rezistor on the right side isolated, what it's right position for him?
[23:30] <Lunar_Lander1> Raul_: so you still have just one line on the waterfall?
[23:31] <Raul_> Yes, shitty 3G
[23:31] <Raul_> no two
[23:31] <Lunar_Lander1> ah the one with the orange cable?
[23:31] <Lunar_Lander1> ah
[23:31] <Raul_> no
[23:31] <Raul_> near the barometer
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[23:37] <Raul_> can I activate some noisefiltering in the software?
[23:40] <fsphil-laptop> wrong solution. try to find out what's causing the problem and fix that
[23:40] <daveake> ^^^
[23:40] <fsphil-laptop> if you're having trouble decoding it when it's in the same room, you've no hope when it's in the air
[23:41] <fsphil-laptop> it's probably something simple
[23:41] <daveake> Raul_ What freq are you Txing on and what is the receiver tuned to?
[23:41] <fsphil-laptop> also, what mode is the receiver set to?
[23:42] <daveake> That's the other question :)
[23:42] <Raul_> 434.075 kHz
[23:42] <Raul_> USB
[23:42] <fsphil-laptop> try retuning
[23:42] <daveake> Tune lower
[23:42] <fsphil-laptop> the signal will drift quite a bit
[23:43] <daveake> See if there's another Rx freq setting that still gives you the 2 bands
[23:44] <fsphil-laptop> tune slowly too
[23:45] <fsphil-laptop> to big a jump and you could miss it
[23:45] <fsphil-laptop> but it could be anywhere between 434.060 and 434.09
[23:45] <fsphil-laptop> and will keep changing if the room gets warmer or colder
[23:49] <Raul_> It might be a shock to you, but I know next to nothing about this things, that's why I bought a SPOT GPS, LL left me his telemetry yesturday
[23:51] <daveake> Try the retuning, one step at a time on your receiver, and see if you get those 2 lines again
[23:51] <Raul_> Yes, I do
[23:52] <Raul_> I do get them I mean
[23:52] <daveake> At what receiver freq?
[23:52] <Raul_> between 1600 and 2100
[23:53] <fsphil-laptop> is it decoding?
[23:53] <daveake> What frequency is the receiver tuned to?
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[23:53] <Raul_> Ty#%j]&tt%j]tt#'stt#'j]tt#u]&tt#%j]&tt##j]&tt#%j]&tt#u]&tt#Sj]tt#S'j]&tt#'stt#'s&tTy#S'j]tt#S%j]&tt#u]&tt#'stt##j]tt#u]&tt#'s&tt#SRj]&tt#&j]&tt#SRj]tt#z#'s nope
[23:53] <Raul_> now, 434,075
[23:54] <daveake> Same as before. So was there any OTHER frequency setting that gave you 2 lines?
[23:55] <Raul_> yes, 0.73...0.74 and then it's off the scale
[23:57] <daveake> Yes it will go off the scale. but if you keep going it may come back. I get this with my receiver when the Tx is close. I want to make sure you're tuned in correctly. Otherwise (if it behaves like mine) the signal level is low and it doesn't decode
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[00:00] --- Fri Dec 30 2011