highaltitude.log.20111228

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[00:23] <Raul_> Hey
[00:24] <fsphil-laptop> yo Raul_
[00:26] <Raul_> I want to launch tomorrow but the prediction for Lauda-Koningschofen is not working :(
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[00:29] <fsphil-laptop> I've lost my script for clearing the predictor cache
[00:32] <Raul_> do you have any info on jetstream pattens over europe? from later tomorrow they seem to get a huge boost in speed
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[00:35] <fsphil-laptop> one sec I think I can clear it
[00:36] <fsphil-laptop> try the prediction again
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[00:57] <Raul_> hey did the prediction:)
[00:57] <Raul_> is this for real? 10km?
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[00:59] <fsphil-laptop> link?
[01:01] <Raul_> I got a prediction for 9.3km from lauda-koningschofen at 5m ascent 7m descent 32000m burst altitude
[01:01] <fsphil-laptop> it's probably pretty accurate, if it's for tomorrow
[01:02] <fsphil-laptop> hopefully ;)
[01:03] <Raul_> Hope it's not some sort of error, or I'll be chasing it all the way to the Czech Republic
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[01:05] <fsphil-laptop> trying to run a prediction from here but it's gotten stuck
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[01:08] <fsphil-laptop> hehe: http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=bd7bf60ef1c7f3b2d4c432ec9c90d79deec501bf
[01:08] <fsphil-laptop> I seem to have hit a wall
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[01:35] <Raul_> has this ever happened before?
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[02:05] <costyn_> fsphil: that's a very interesting prediction
[02:06] <Raul_> is there anyway I can fix it? I plan on launching in 6-7h
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[11:32] <WillDuckworth> hey RocketBoy - received the parcel the other day no probs - thanks
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[11:53] <RocketBoy> WillDuckworth - thanks
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[12:08] <nosebleedkt_> hi all
[12:16] <fsphil> yoyo
[12:19] <nosebleedkt_> :)
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[15:08] <cuddykid> glider coming along nicely :)
[15:09] <WillDuckworth> any pics cuddykid?
[15:09] <WillDuckworth> merry crimbo btw
[15:10] <cuddykid> WillDuckworth: yep, being taking them as it's progressing, they're on my iPhone atm, will post them in a bit :D
[15:10] <cuddykid> and to you too!
[15:12] <WillDuckworth> excellent. any launches planned soon?
[15:12] <WillDuckworth> i'm hoping for 7th jan
[15:13] <SamSilver_> cuddykid: have searched but not found a parachute deployment system that I saw a while back
[15:14] <cuddykid> WillDuckworth: hopefully easter time (or before) - most of the code is done for next flight, just soldering/wiring everything up. Aiming for summer testing of glider - might be a bit ambitious though!
[15:14] <cuddykid> WillDuckworth: awesome - I'll keep a look out
[15:14] <cuddykid> SameSilver_: no probs, thanks for searching :)
[15:15] <SamSilver_> it used a flap that jutted into the air flow and was released by full up elevator and then the parachute was "spilt out"
[15:16] <SamSilver_> i will have another look but might try a "paint" sketch when I have time
[15:17] <SamSilver_> the benefit of using the full elevator was that the servo was now doing two jobs
[15:17] <cuddykid> ahh nice
[15:17] <SamSilver_> k
[15:17] <cuddykid> :D
[15:17] <SamSilver_> later afk
[15:18] <cuddykid> WillDuckworth: going for the gpsboomerang style, have you seen their glider?
[15:18] <Laurenceb_> photos?
[15:20] <Laurenceb_> cuddykid: are you just using a rudder?
[15:20] <cuddykid> Laurenceb_: http://www.gpsboomerang.com/
[15:21] <cuddykid> Laurenceb_: planning to just use rudder atm, however, that may change based on stability when test flying :)
[15:21] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[15:21] <Laurenceb_> yeah i doubt itll work without a load of faffing
[15:21] <Laurenceb_> but im no plane guru
[15:22] <cuddykid> this is a very botchy/experimental project :P lol
[15:22] <Laurenceb_> go for a rogallo wing :P
[15:22] <Laurenceb_> i tried fixed wing with a rudder
[15:23] <Laurenceb_> it went into a spiral dive after release
[15:23] <cuddykid> that's exactly what I'm fearing!
[15:23] <Laurenceb_> the canadian glider guys had the same issue until they put more work into the aerodynamics and added rate gyros for feedback
[15:23] <cuddykid> I've been trying to figure out exactly how the gpsboomerang one auto rights itself
[15:23] <Laurenceb_> that was in the days on murata gyros
[15:23] <Laurenceb_> *of
[15:24] <Laurenceb_> aiui it took them several attempts to get it stable enough
[15:24] <cuddykid> yep
[15:24] <Laurenceb_> with grate difficulty is probably the answer
[15:24] <Laurenceb_> and if you want to work at very high altitude its even harder
[15:24] <Laurenceb_> you cant even test it
[15:25] <WillDuckworth> does look fun though
[15:25] <Laurenceb_> id go for multiaxis control or a rogallo
[15:26] <cuddykid> here's the link to a few of my build photos so far - http://flic.kr/s/aHsjxDFm3K - nothing professional :P lol
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[15:26] <Laurenceb_> nice wing
[15:27] <cuddykid> cheers - took a fair amount of sanding
[15:27] <Laurenceb_> id try a polyhedral wing
[15:27] <cuddykid> yeah
[15:27] <Laurenceb_> but then you trade roll stability for risk of spiral dive
[15:27] <cuddykid> I'm certainly going for a tip polyhedral
[15:27] <Laurenceb_> unless you fiddle with the tail for ages
[15:27] <WillDuckworth> if you haven't already - it might be worth sticking a fibreglass/carbonfibre rod/tube in it for strength
[15:27] <Laurenceb_> i think winglets help avoid spiral dive
[15:28] <Laurenceb_> yeah that too
[15:28] <cuddykid> WillDuckworth: yep, going to :P
[15:28] <Laurenceb_> an inverted V tail would help as well
[15:28] <cuddykid> it definitely needs a carbon fibre spur in
[15:28] <WillDuckworth> good stuff something like: http://www.sussex-model-centre.co.uk/shopexd.asp?id=22721
[15:29] <Laurenceb_> the tail area and lenght of the tail boom is a pita too
[15:29] <cuddykid> WillDuckworth: cheers :D
[15:29] <Laurenceb_> you need pitch stability without risk of oscillation or dive conditions
[15:29] <Laurenceb_> personally id try grabbing some designs from RC glider books
[15:30] <Laurenceb_> or using an off the shelf RC glider - if its one with a reputation for being stable
[15:30] <cuddykid> Laurenceb_: yeah, I'm planning to balance everything up - adding additional weights in front/back as necessary
[15:30] <Laurenceb_> its not as simple as that
[15:30] <Laurenceb_> you can trim anything so it flies
[15:30] <Laurenceb_> but it might not be very stable
[15:30] <Laurenceb_> or it may have unstable flight modes
[15:30] <cuddykid> ahh :(
[15:31] <Laurenceb_> this is where the guru part of an aircraft design guru comes in
[15:33] <Laurenceb_> http://www.ccdemo.info/SportsAndHobbies/RCSailplane.html
[15:33] <Laurenceb_> personally id try something like that, but theres no guarantee itd work at altitude
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[15:38] <Laurenceb_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_dynamic_modes
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[15:41] <Laurenceb_> supposedly rogallos will suffer from dutch roll
[15:42] <Laurenceb_> but it didnt see any releasing from 12Km altitude
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[15:43] <Laurenceb_> but rogallo s are really good at recovering, you can throw one randomly and it will recover after a few tumbles
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[15:45] <WillDuckworth> you love your rogallo stuff Laurenceb_ - any news of another flight?
[15:45] <Laurenceb_> im busy with other stuff
[15:46] <Laurenceb_> guess i could try and fit it in
[15:46] <Laurenceb_> i have a ublox6 from Upu now, so i could rip out the lassen
[15:46] <WillDuckworth> good stuff
[15:46] <Laurenceb_> the radio code would need to be swapped for the ukhas protocol
[15:46] <Laurenceb_> but yeah all the code has been flight proven and works ok
[15:46] <Laurenceb_> so i could fly it again
[15:47] <cuddykid> Hmm, If my glider turns out horrible then I'm sure it'll provide some people in the eng dept something fun to work on! :D
[15:47] <Laurenceb_> i have a sewing machine now so i could make a neater wing :P
[15:48] <Laurenceb_> my hand sewing is quite poor XD
[15:48] <cuddykid> lol
[15:48] <SpeedEvil> Practice!
[15:49] <Laurenceb_> problem is the orange fluorescent nylon on ebay is high porosity
[15:49] <Laurenceb_> its rejected parachute stuff
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[15:50] <Laurenceb_> when i swapped the wing from polythene + tape to ripstop nylon glide ratio went from 4.5 to 3.6
[15:50] <Laurenceb_> i never expected it to be so significant
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[15:52] <Laurenceb_> but polythene rogallos look lame
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[15:53] <Laurenceb_> http://ukhas.org.uk/_media/projects:ukhas_glider_project:p7270025.jpg <- see
[15:54] <cuddykid> an interesting design would be just a wing - have it fly back to earth at some ridiculous speed :P
[15:54] <SpeedEvil> Spray it with some furniture polish
[15:55] <SpeedEvil> Or hairspray
[15:55] <Laurenceb_> yeah might work
[15:55] <Laurenceb_> or varnish of some sort
[15:55] <SpeedEvil> Or even water, for a few mins
[15:55] <cuddykid> http://tinypic.com/rws7dh.jpg - something like that
[15:55] <Laurenceb_> have to be careful not to dissolve the nylon
[15:55] <SpeedEvil> Nylon is pretty resistant
[15:55] <Laurenceb_> you need three axis control for a zagi
[15:56] <Laurenceb_> put dactyl on it XD
[15:56] <Laurenceb_> that would require me finishing the firmware
[15:56] <cuddykid> haha
[15:56] <Laurenceb_> or openpilot
[15:56] <Laurenceb_> but it has no radio
[15:56] <Laurenceb_> as the radio developer left
[15:57] <Laurenceb_> ardupilot seems to be quite mature
[15:57] <Laurenceb_> its just very crippled
[15:57] <Laurenceb_> probably good enough for this
[16:01] <Laurenceb_> http://i.imgur.com/nGPDD.png
[16:01] <Laurenceb_> thats gps velocity from the flight where the winch broke
[16:02] <Laurenceb_> - ignore the inits, its scaled relative to atmospheric density
[16:04] <cuddykid> oh wow!
[16:04] <Laurenceb_> the spikes are where it stalled due to turbulence and went into a dive before recovering
[16:05] <Laurenceb_> there are more stalls in one direction due to the wind direction
[16:05] <cuddykid> I considered ardupilot - I think it was a little bit of an overkill for what I want
[16:05] <Laurenceb_> gusts have faster rise time and fall time
[16:05] <Laurenceb_> so you get worse stalls when wind is behind it
[16:05] <Laurenceb_> yeah i used mega168
[16:06] <Laurenceb_> http://ukhas.org.uk/_media/projects:imgp0191.jpg
[16:08] <Laurenceb_> clockwise: lipo, switching power supply, gps antenni, lassen iq, rc receiver, servo, mainboard with mxl gyro board above it
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[17:47] <cuddykid> not a fan of flickr
[17:48] <cuddykid> none the less - 2 more photos added http://flic.kr/p/b3eRd8
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[17:59] <Laurenceb_> looks good
[17:59] <Laurenceb_> how are you going to test? throw into some long grass?
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[18:17] <Randomskk> cuddykid: is that adorably small, or deceptively scaled?
[18:17] <cuddykid> Laurenceb_: yup :P and find a nice hill that drops away quickly!
[18:18] <cuddykid> Randomskk: It's fairly large - wing span is about 1m :)
[18:18] <Randomskk> aha
[18:18] <Randomskk> it looks adorably small but experience suggests that's not the way to go for stable gliders :P
[18:18] <cuddykid> lol
[18:18] <Randomskk> oh yes, your other pics make it clearer
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[18:23] <Laurenceb_> https://specialcomp.com/pandaboard/order.htm
[18:24] <cuddykid> on a random note - if anyone needs loft insulation (unfortunately not styrofoam) - it's going extremely cheap - £1/roll and free P&P - http://www.npower.com/Home/Energy-efficiency/Home-insulation/DIY-loft-insulation/index.htm?AG=002&CH=AFF&REF=AFLT1&WT.mc_id=AFFAFLT1
[18:27] Nick change: BrainDam- -> BrainDamage
[18:28] <Laurenceb_> i was just thinking - on a CofG controlled rogallo it should be easy to damp out dutch roll
[18:29] <Laurenceb_> if theres a rate gyro in there itll act like a yaw damper
[18:29] <Laurenceb_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaw_damper
[18:38] <Laurenceb_> https://github.com/leaflabs/libmaple/tree/master/examples
[18:38] <Laurenceb_> ^thats actually quite impressive
[18:38] <Laurenceb_> seems to have evolved way past cripped arduino functionality
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[19:02] <NigeyS> L3
[19:02] <NigeyS>
[19:02] <NigeyS> 1381.05 MHz
[19:02] <NigeyS>
[19:02] <NigeyS> Used for nuclear detonation
[19:02] <NigeyS> weeee boom
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[19:15] Nick change: andrew_apex_ -> andrew_apex
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[19:27] <Laurenceb_> wut
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[20:03] <Laurenceb_> http://charliex2.wordpress.com/2011/12/13/null-space-labs-juki-360-rebuild-part-iv-yes-were-in-la/
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[21:01] <eroomde> I have a blister from using a cheese knife
[21:01] <eroomde> iiiiiiiiiit's chriiiiiiiiistmaaaaaaaaas
[21:03] <Randomskk> how much cheese...
[21:03] <Randomskk> I don't know why I bother asking
[21:03] <Randomskk> otoh I have some almost fresh sushi so I'm happy
[21:04] <eroomde> like a truckle of montgomery cheddar and half a truckle of stichilton
[21:04] <eroomde> the advantage of christmas for 25 people is you tend to have industrial quantities of leftovers
[21:05] <Randomskk> indeed
[21:06] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: So you're now setup for 3 months of hibernation without needing to eat at all?
[21:06] <eroomde> fazackerly
[21:07] <eroomde> well, not at my current rate of cheese consumption
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[21:11] <eroomde> but if i were to budget
[21:14] <eroomde> Randomskk: almost fresh?
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[21:26] <Laurenceb_> i seem to have spent 90% of my time cooking for the past week :/
[21:28] <Randomskk> cooking takes ages
[21:29] <SpeedEvil> Depends.
[21:29] <SpeedEvil> Make _large_ batches, and freeze it.
[21:29] <SpeedEvil> I got a mahoosive freezer, and a box of 250 650ml containers off ebay
[21:30] <Randomskk> ugh but then you keep eating reheated food and where's the fun in that
[21:30] <SpeedEvil> These are about right for stuff like stews and curries.
[21:30] <SpeedEvil> So you have two portions in each, then do rice or potatos, with some fresh veg, or naan as a side.
[21:32] <daveake> I bought myself a new set of non-stick pans in the sales. Yet the manufacturer managed to stick labels on the insides ...
[21:32] <daveake> They should have put "not as non-stick as we hoped" on the labels :)
[21:32] <SpeedEvil> I keep meaning to get one of those ceramic non-stick pans.
[21:33] <SpeedEvil> I'm currently using steel, and seasinging it - which works well
[21:33] <SpeedEvil> But has limits.
[21:33] <daveake> These are stainless with a hard non-stick
[21:33] <daveake> Supposed to last longer than the usual stuff
[21:33] <SpeedEvil> The ceramic non-stick can go to 3400C
[21:33] <SpeedEvil> err
[21:33] <SpeedEvil> 400C
[21:33] <Randomskk> 3400C would be hella impressive
[21:34] <Randomskk> I don't think my hob can manage that though
[21:34] <SpeedEvil> :)
[21:34] <daveake> :D
[21:34] <Randomskk> though the wok burner has an impressive number of btus
[21:34] <eroomde> i love carbon steel pans
[21:34] <eroomde> cheaper and they get weapons grade nonstick
[21:35] <eroomde> when iget a new one i make something like pan roasted duck breast in honey and soy sauce
[21:35] <eroomde> the duck fan, honey, and soy give a very permeating thick black coating
[21:35] <eroomde> and it's nonstick for life
[21:35] <SpeedEvil> http://www.green-pan.co.uk/uk/faqs-836.htm
[21:36] <SpeedEvil> _lots_ of bullshit on the site, but it seems an interesting technology.
[21:37] <SpeedEvil> And yes, it's useful, but I have unfortunate concentration issues when cooking, and re-seasoning is annoying.
[21:37] <daveake> mmmDuck. We did duck in my BBQ smoker last year. Delicious
[21:38] <eroomde> duck is great
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[21:41] <eroomde> these are the ones I use SpeedEvil http://www.debuyer.com/product.php?id=14&cat=14&lang=ENG
[21:41] <SpeedEvil> yeah -
[21:41] <eroomde> simple and cheap and really really solid
[21:42] <eroomde> the small oens are good anyway. i' not sure how the lack of thermal condustivity would affect a big pan over a hob
[21:42] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/11-COMMERCIAL-QUALITY-TAWA-PAN-/260917828111?pt=UK_HomeGarden_Kitchen_Cookware_GL&hash=item3cbfea1a0f
[21:42] <SpeedEvil> Like that
[21:43] <SpeedEvil> With a slightly more raised edge
[21:46] <Laurenceb_> ptfe is not nice stuff
[21:47] <Laurenceb_> of course if you eat processed food you dont know how much nasty stuff it has in already
[21:48] <Laurenceb_> e.g. apparently banana packing workers in south america have really high excess cancer rates
[21:48] <Laurenceb_> of course you're probably ok unless you eat the banana skin
[21:49] <Laurenceb_> but they are sprayed with all kind of crazy shit thats never cleaned off
[21:49] <SpeedEvil> Indeed - PRFEisn't nice stuff, but the greenpan site makes lots of rather BS claims about the production
[21:50] <Laurenceb_> theres a threshold temperature beyond which the nasty carcinogenic stuff gets generated
[21:50] <SpeedEvil> Indeed
[21:50] <SpeedEvil> And kills pet birds
[21:51] <Laurenceb_> if you burn oily stuff badly in one you can get dangerous levels injested
[21:51] <Laurenceb_> but lower temperatures its very safe
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[22:16] <Upu> did BOBAS-NG ever get recovered ?
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[22:20] <Zuph> The BeagleBone is pretty slick, btw.
[22:20] Action: SpeedEvil waits for his pi.
[22:22] <Zuph> heh
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[00:00] --- Thu Dec 29 2011