highaltitude.log.20111226

[00:08] <Laurenceb_> http://i.imgur.com/z1Eka.png
[00:08] <Laurenceb_> helps quite a lot
[00:09] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
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[04:03] <setpixel> hi!
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[08:05] <polycarbonate1> splat doesn't seem to like http://data.geocomm.com/catalog/AS/group121.html
[08:05] <polycarbonate1> I can't remember where I got my South Australia data
[08:05] <polycarbonate1> where should I be getting some for Victoria?
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[10:42] <cuddykid> I guess spark fun don't have boxing day sales& :(
[10:44] <fsphil> few places will I bet
[10:45] <cuddykid> has anyone heard of/used one of these before - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SKYLAB-SKM53-Arduino-GPS-module-onboard-antenna-/260921756429?pt=UK_CE_GPS_Accessories_Software_ET&hash=item3cc0260b0d#ht_605wt_1156
[10:46] <Darkside> mediatek chip
[10:46] <cuddykid> Darkside: any good?
[10:46] <Darkside> dunno if they do >18km or not
[10:46] <cuddykid> ahh ok
[10:46] <cuddykid> that would be a bummer
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[10:47] <fsphil-laptop> slightly :)
[10:47] <fsphil-laptop> hiya GW8RAK
[10:47] <GW8RAK> Hiya Phil
[10:47] <Darkside> sup all
[10:48] <Darkside> hmm
[10:48] <Darkside> anyone wanna try HF?
[10:48] <fsphil-laptop> always up for HF, though I've only a short antenna atm
[10:48] <GW8RAK> Need to check aerial here first. It's very windy and the aerial may be bouncing around too much. Will go and look
[10:49] <fsphil-laptop> yes the wind is nasty this morning
[10:49] <fsphil-laptop> was*
[10:49] <Darkside> i think only 10m will get to the UK at this time of day
[10:49] <Darkside> will have to check if ths antenna i have here will tune up on 10m
[10:49] <fsphil-laptop> I'm not hearing very much on 10m at all
[10:50] <Darkside> tuned up perfectly
[10:50] <fsphil-laptop> actually, nothing at all
[10:51] <Darkside> heh'
[10:51] <fsphil-laptop> better check it's still plugged in
[10:51] <Darkside> fsphil-laptop: 28.748MHz
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[10:52] <fsphil-laptop> 28.748 usb, clear
[10:52] <Darkside> nothing i assume
[10:52] <fsphil-laptop> aye
[10:52] <fsphil-laptop> I need to connect the vertical again
[10:52] <fsphil-laptop> this is a random wire out the window
[10:52] <Darkside> heh
[10:53] <fsphil-laptop> although it tunes up nicely too
[10:53] <Darkside> heh
[10:53] <fsphil-laptop> wait, I have an actual 10m antenna
[10:54] <Darkside> i think we're pushing it a bit for UK to australia atm
[10:54] <fsphil-laptop> odd that I'm hearing nothing at all -- from anyone
[10:55] <Darkside> o anuy band?
[10:55] <Darkside> on any band*
[10:55] <fsphil-laptop> only checked 10m, lemme have a scan
[10:56] <Darkside> 40 should be active
[10:56] <fsphil-laptop> faint voices on 18.130
[10:56] <Darkside> 40 is *Always* active
[10:56] <fsphil-laptop> yea, voices on 40 too -- not very strong though
[10:56] <fsphil-laptop> I'll try this 10m whip indoors
[10:56] <Darkside> uhh
[10:56] <Darkside> thats not going to work lol
[10:56] <fsphil-laptop> well, out the window then :)
[10:57] <Darkside> haha
[10:57] <Darkside> use 28.748
[10:57] <fsphil-laptop> if I can get it out of the packaging...
[10:57] <Darkside> what radio do you have?
[10:57] <Darkside> only the 817?
[10:57] <fsphil-laptop> 857 too
[10:57] <fsphil-laptop> I can do 50 watts if needed
[10:58] <Darkside> heh
[10:59] <GW8RAK> 24MHz looks best according to http://www.ips.gov.au/HF_Systems/6/6/1
[11:00] <Darkside> if theres a band there i cant use it
[11:01] <GW8RAK> Bugger, conditions don't look promising. But 15m would be the nearest
[11:01] <Darkside> yeah i think its not worth it
[11:01] <fsphil-laptop> you hearing anything on 10m GW8RAK?
[11:03] <GW8RAK> 15m sounds to the the highest band open at present.
[11:03] <GW8RAK> 10m silent
[11:03] <GW8RAK> Not your rig :)
[11:03] <fsphil-laptop> phew
[11:03] <Darkside> i can do 20m...
[11:04] <GW8RAK> According to the plot, 20m is open to high latitudes
[11:04] <GW8RAK> in daylight areas
[11:05] <Darkside> pick a frequency on 20m
[11:05] <Darkside> wait
[11:05] <Darkside> not 20m
[11:05] <Darkside> 15m
[11:05] <Darkside> my bad
[11:06] <Darkside> GW8RAK: pick a frquency on 15m
[11:06] <GW8RAK> Okay, 1 minute please
[11:07] <GW8RAK> Could be workable, recent contact on 15m from Switzerland to Australia
[11:07] <GW8RAK> Just tuning radio
[11:07] <fsphil-laptop> 15m is silent here too
[11:07] <fsphil-laptop> but I'll have a listen
[11:08] <GW8RAK> 21.300 is clear here Darkside
[11:08] <Darkside> same
[11:09] <GW8RAK> Can you make that 21.290?
[11:09] <GW8RAK> Someone just came through
[11:09] <Darkside> someone using that locally
[11:09] <GW8RAK> Okay 300 it is. You going to call?
[11:09] <Darkside> hang on theres someone there too
[11:10] <Darkside> below the noise
[11:10] <GW8RAK> 320?
[11:10] <Darkside> 21305?
[11:10] <GW8RAK> 305 it is
[11:10] <Darkside> ok
[11:11] <Darkside> anything?
[11:11] <Darkside> i just called at 10X my licenses power limit
[11:12] <GW8RAK> Nothing here. I'll call CQ
[11:12] <Darkside> S5 noise here btw
[11:12] <fsphil-laptop> not hearing either of you
[11:13] <Darkside> oh well
[11:13] <Darkside> this antenna isnt oriented correctly anyway
[11:13] <Darkside> its more east-west
[11:13] <GW8RAK> One day we'll do it Darkside. Data?
[11:14] <Darkside> can't atm
[11:14] <Darkside> nothing is hooked up to do data
[11:14] <GW8RAK> Okay. All European traffic here and the band doesn't sound very good.
[11:14] <fsphil-laptop> next time 10m is open we'll all have a go
[11:15] <GW8RAK> Yes, hope to get some radio done over the holiday
[11:15] <fsphil-laptop> me too -- I do so little
[11:15] <GW8RAK> Want to try some QRP CW if I can. Think I can risk going on air now
[11:17] <GW8RAK> Next month looks promising Darkside
[11:17] <Darkside> mm
[11:17] <Darkside> i might have a decent HF setup at home by then
[11:18] <GW8RAK> http://www.infotechcomms.co.uk/propcharts/january/
[11:19] <GW8RAK> This seems to predict decent conditions, but a bit general. Mid morning appears best in January for 15m.
[11:20] <GW8RAK> Antarctica looks promising when my customer gets down there.
[11:20] <GW8RAK> In fact, as he is south of you Darkside, you could get some skeds with him
[11:28] Action: fsphil-laptop tries not to poke a hole in the ceiling with the 10m whip
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[11:37] <Darkside> fsphil-laptop: my diamond 2/70 colinear is better :P
[11:37] <Darkside> its as tall as the house
[11:37] <Darkside> and i live in a 2 story house
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[11:47] <fsphil-laptop> what model Darkside?
[11:48] <fsphil-laptop> mine stood up fine in the room
[11:48] <Darkside> fsphil-laptop: Diamond X-520
[11:48] <Darkside> still havent got the damn thing on the roof yet
[11:52] <fsphil-laptop> lol, 5.2m long
[11:52] <fsphil-laptop> my HF antenna is that size
[11:54] <fsphil-laptop> which I must get reconnected
[11:54] <fsphil-laptop> need a waterproof box for the balun
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[12:35] <fsphil> trailer for "Earthflight" on bbc just now, looks like they've put a gopro on an eagle
[12:38] <joph> :D
[12:39] <fsphil> aah, it's not a gopro. not sure what that is: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/gallery/2011/dec/20/bbc-one-earthflight-in-pictures#/?picture=383564884&index=14
[12:40] <joph> where's the camera?
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[12:41] <fsphil> that black thing
[12:41] <fsphil> on the eagles shoulder
[12:42] <joph> kay
[12:42] <joph> i think it's a more professional camera
[12:42] <joph> with a seperate battery pack
[12:42] <joph> and maybe a seperate video recording system
[12:43] <fsphil> would need to be tiny to not annoy the bird
[12:44] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/MW0kD.jpg
[12:48] <fsphil> looks good
[12:58] <mattltm> You make that Darkside?
[12:58] <Darkside> yeah
[12:58] <Darkside> almost done
[12:58] <Darkside> theres 2
[12:58] <Darkside> will be phased up
[12:58] <mattltm> very nice
[12:59] <mattltm> 11 ele?
[12:59] <Darkside> yes
[12:59] <mattltm> non insulated directors?
[13:00] <mattltm> Looks nice and strong :)
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[13:01] <Darkside> yeah
[13:01] <Darkside> this one isnt going up the BIG tower sadly
[13:01] <Darkside> we'd need to hire a cherrypicker to get to that
[13:03] <Darkside> http://g.co/maps/e9bqy
[13:03] <Darkside> on top of the frame tower are 2x 18-element beams, but they were designed for 477MHZ (our local CB band
[13:03] <Darkside> so they dont work too well for balloon stuff
[13:06] <mattltm> Very nice :)
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[13:06] <mattltm> That 2 x 2M yagi?
[13:07] <mattltm> Under the top ones?
[13:08] <Darkside> yes
[13:08] <Darkside> ZL specials
[13:08] <mattltm> smart. Bayed and phased I guess?
[13:08] <Darkside> yerp
[13:08] <Darkside> aha just found the sim page for these 70cm beams
[13:09] <Darkside> 14.8dBi per beam
[13:09] <Darkside> so 17.8dBi with the 2 of them
[13:09] <mattltm> Sweet. I would love the have the space to be able to play with propper bayed/stacked arrays :(
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[13:24] <Upu> Darkside linky pls
[13:24] <Upu> [13:09] <Darkside> aha just found the sim page for these 70cm beams
[13:25] <Darkside> Upu: its on paper
[13:25] <Upu> ah ok
[13:25] <Darkside> a ham around here printed them out
[13:25] <Darkside> as he designed the beams
[13:30] <Hiena> Btw, anybody knows printable 70 cm - 2 cm logper antenna drawings?
[13:31] <Hiena> I want to make tracker and needs at least 4 antenna for the tracking signals.
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[13:45] <cuddykid> cheapest place to buy atmega328 preloaded with arduino bootloader?
[13:45] <cuddykid> ?
[13:45] <cuddykid> not sure why it sent a question mark again :S! I didn't press it twice
[13:46] <SpeedEvil> Ebay?
[13:46] <Darkside> cuddykid: why not do it yourself
[13:46] <Darkside> you can bootstrap it with another arduino at a pinch
[13:46] <cuddykid> Darkside: does it require any special components?
[13:47] <cuddykid> yeah - ebay might be a good place :)
[13:47] <Darkside> cuddykid: well you ened all the supporting components for the atmega you want to program
[13:47] <Darkside> you may as well get used to ISP programming
[13:48] <cuddykid> I suppose
[13:48] <Darkside> and yeah, you can do it with another arduino at a pinch
[13:49] <Darkside> you need to do some hax to stop the auto reset on the arduino, but its not too hard to do
[13:51] <mattltm> Anyone know much about air compressors?
[13:51] <SpeedEvil> Something
[13:52] <mattltm> Im in the market for somthing to raise my clark SCAM mast.
[13:52] <SpeedEvil> 12v?
[13:52] <mattltm> 240v
[13:52] <SpeedEvil> I guess you don't need that much flow
[13:52] <mattltm> I was thinking about a normal shop compressor
[13:52] <SpeedEvil> Does noise bother you?
[13:53] <mattltm> Nope, It will be in the workshop.
[13:53] <SpeedEvil> Probably not insane then
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[13:53] <mattltm> its the air preasure suply thing thats got me a bit confused.
[13:54] <SpeedEvil> You might want to consider a drier - otherwise it may condense and freeze in the antenna outside.
[13:54] <mattltm> I guess I need a regulator to drop the suply preasure down so it is sutiable for the mast?
[13:54] <SpeedEvil> It depends.
[13:55] <SpeedEvil> You can do that, or you can just turn down the pressure on the compressor
[13:55] <SpeedEvil> and it will cycle on and off to keep the pressure in the tank at that level
[13:55] <mattltm> And if I wanted to use the air for air tools, could I come out of the tank and into 2 seperate regulators?
[13:55] <SpeedEvil> The disadvantage of this would be that you can't use the stored energy in the tank to raise the mast, so it may be slower
[13:56] <SpeedEvil> yes, you could do that too
[13:56] <SpeedEvil> If you're using it for other stuff, you wouldn't want to be screwing witht he pressure setting, as you'd get it wrong one day
[13:56] <SpeedEvil> And your antenna would launch skywards.
[13:56] <mattltm> lol.
[13:57] <m0lep> You'll likely have to drain it frequently anyway, but the small pump-your-tyres-up compressors will likely do the trick.
[13:57] <SpeedEvil> Tyre compressors fail rapidly
[13:57] <mattltm> It needs 25PSI to get it up and make it stau there.
[13:57] <mattltm> *stay
[13:57] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJzL_wyMahU
[13:58] <SpeedEvil> Compressor related
[13:58] <mattltm> lol. Love the LOG :)
[13:58] <m0lep> ...and a small shop compressor's going to be quite a bit more than 25psi, I guess.
[13:58] <SpeedEvil> Not with a regulator
[13:59] <SpeedEvil> 'we can afford to be quite bold'
[13:59] <mattltm> lol
[14:00] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sealey-Air-Filter-Regulator-Gauge-SA2001-FR-SA2001FR-/350396384549?pt=UK_Air_Tools_and_Compressors&hash=item5195408525
[14:00] <SpeedEvil> forex
[14:00] <mattltm> I did think about a small car tyre type but I want somthing that I can curn on and forget about. So it will pump up the mast, stop at 25psi and turn back on again if the mast starts to drop.
[14:01] <mattltm> So a "real" compressor with one of those in line?
[14:01] <SpeedEvil> yes
[14:01] <mattltm> Looks good.
[14:01] <SpeedEvil> Even your weediest little compressor will work fine for an antenna
[14:02] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wolf-Sioux-24L-2-5HP-9-5CFM-Air-compressor-5pc-Kit-/250957217070?pt=UK_Air_Tools_and_Compressors&hash=item3a6e373d2e
[14:02] <SpeedEvil> or similar, forex
[14:02] <mattltm> That looks perfect.
[14:05] <mattltm> SpeedEvil: Could I take a feed from the compressor and split it into 2 of the regulators mounted on the wall? One connected permnantly to the mast and one for air tools?
[14:06] <SpeedEvil> yes, what happens then is you can just leave it 'live' all the time when in the shop, and when either demands air, the compressor kicks on
[14:06] <SpeedEvil> through the regulator(s)
[14:06] <mattltm> That sounds like an ideal solution. I could put a valve in both lines and a valve on the "drain" from the mast.
[14:08] <SpeedEvil> Good plan.
[14:08] <mattltm> I like it. Looks like im off to shop on ebay for a 1/2 decent air compressor :)
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[14:09] <mattltm> SpeedEvil: Would you recomend used or new compressor?
[14:10] <SpeedEvil> Depends really.
[14:11] <SpeedEvil> If you can find a cheap used one locall, and you understand how to inspect it for internal corrosion on the pressure tank...
[14:11] <mattltm> lol. So a new one for me then :)
[14:11] <SpeedEvil> Problem is you don't lknow if it's been used heavily, then put away with a couple of litres water in it for 5 years, then cleaned out and sold
[14:12] <mattltm> Good point. That Wolf one you linked to should do the job for a bit of mast pumping and the odd air tool..
[14:12] <SpeedEvil> No experience of the seller.
[14:14] <mattltm> I guess oil free is better for the mast.
[14:15] <SpeedEvil> Depends on the design, lubrication may be intended
[14:15] <Darkside> thats what she said?
[14:15] <mattltm> lol.
[14:15] <Darkside> nn all
[14:16] <mattltm> Yes, looks like the SCAM needs oil free air
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[15:59] <Laurenceb_> rapeberrypi.org isnt registered
[15:59] <Laurenceb_> quick quick
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[16:41] <cuddykid> glider wing complete!
[16:43] <cuddykid> is there such thing as fibreglass paint or spray? Wondering the easiest way to coat styrofoam wing in fibreglass
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[16:50] <Laurenceb_> hmm some plastic cote paints work
[16:50] <Laurenceb_> arg openpilot is annoying sometimes
[16:50] <Laurenceb_> they are just so good at everything
[16:50] <Laurenceb_> theres no point trying to compete
[16:53] <SpeedEvil> Also you can do epoxy fibreglass
[16:53] <SpeedEvil> whihc polystyrene is just fine with
[16:53] <BrainDamage> can't you just melt polystyrene using acetone so it makes a smooth surface?
[16:53] <SpeedEvil> no
[16:54] <SpeedEvil> In the same way you can't shave using a flamethrower.
[16:54] <BrainDamage> that analogy doesn't explain me the reason why it's not allowed, because it doesn't improve stiffness?
[16:55] <Randomskk> because try shaving with a flamethrower
[16:55] <Randomskk> you will not have any more facial hair any more, but also other problems
[16:55] <NigelMoby> LOL
[16:55] <BrainDamage> I could shave you using a flamethrower, and solve 2 problems at once
[16:55] <Randomskk> haha
[16:56] <Randomskk> you could melt polystyrene with the same flamethrower, too
[16:56] <NigelMoby> ffs just use napalm and be done with it :)
[16:56] <Randomskk> I think the issue is more that it won't result in a smooth surface at all: you'll get totally uneven melting which will depend on the original surface anyway
[16:57] <BrainDamage> yes and no, melting a batch separately results in something very similar to plastiline when polystyrene amount is large
[16:57] <BrainDamage> ( or napalm in small amounts )
[17:01] <cuddykid> SpeedEvil: would it add much weight?
[17:02] <SpeedEvil> cuddykid: Films like monokote or similar are probably a better idea
[17:02] <SpeedEvil> heat-shrink, or adhesive films
[17:03] <cuddykid> ahh good idea :) thanks
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[18:22] <cuddykid> hmm this servo I have is behaving extremely weirdly - though never played with servos before so it may be normal!
[18:24] <Laurenceb_> why is it weird?
[18:24] <cuddykid> it's sort of doing it's own thing
[18:25] <cuddykid> it will move between the two angles I've given it, but it will do it whenever it feels like it
[18:25] <cuddykid> despite me programming it to move at set intervals
[18:25] <cuddykid> wonder if the servo is compatible with the arduino servo library :S
[18:28] <cuddykid> also - it's causing weird things to happen with the power to arduino board - when it's on the serial port to upload code disappears
[18:28] <cuddykid> and the "on" light (arduino uno) blinks/flashes
[18:30] <cuddykid> there is also a constant shudder coming from servo!!
[18:36] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[18:36] <Laurenceb_> how is it powered?
[18:37] <cuddykid> 5v from arduino 5v
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[18:37] <cuddykid> and orange line into pin 9 (sending commands down)
[18:38] <Laurenceb_> what size servo?
[18:38] <cuddykid> 9gr
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[18:38] <cuddykid> tiny HXT900
[18:38] <Laurenceb_> hmm it shouldnt be killing the 5v
[18:38] <cuddykid> it kills it only when the servos moving
[18:41] <Laurenceb_> put a voltmeter on 5v
[18:42] <cuddykid> it's jumping around a tiny bit but pretty central around 4.2v
[18:43] <Laurenceb_> maybe the servo want 5v
[18:45] <cuddykid> it says anywhere between 3 and 6v
[18:46] <cuddykid> I wonder if it's because I'm coding in big jumps e.g. move to 90, wait 3 secs, move to 0. (with no intermediate steps)
[18:46] <cuddykid> because with the example "sweep" sketch it works perfect
[18:48] <SpeedEvil> Pop a large cap on it
[18:48] <SpeedEvil> If it's jumping around a bit on a voltmeter, it may be doing considerably more than that in the short term
[18:48] <Laurenceb_> yeah sounds like its screwing up the power rails
[18:49] <cuddykid> cap on the power (5v) line or command line?
[18:49] <SpeedEvil> power
[18:49] <cuddykid> cheers :)
[19:11] <Laurenceb_> working/
[19:11] <Laurenceb_> *?
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[19:50] <cuddykid> haven't tested yet, will test tomorrow and report back :)
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[21:58] <jcoxon> evening all
[21:59] <SpeedEvil> Evening.
[21:59] <NigeyS> evening James
[22:03] <Upu> evening
[22:18] <Laurenceb_> doh
[22:18] <Laurenceb_> spent ages writing kalman filter code to process quantised adc data
[22:18] <Laurenceb_> then wondered why its still got big jumps
[22:18] <Laurenceb_> then realised cuz thats how a kalman filter works
[22:18] <Laurenceb_> :(
[22:19] <Randomskk> quick, make a better filter! :P
[22:20] <Laurenceb_> there isnt one
[22:20] <Laurenceb_> maybe i could use a PDF output from the kalman for some sort of line fitter
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[22:23] <Laurenceb_> a linear fit between each adc change is the best i have so far
[22:23] <Laurenceb_> theres got to be a better way..
[22:24] <SpeedEvil> This is for the temp/flow thing still?
[22:24] <Laurenceb_> yes
[22:24] <Laurenceb_> trying to minimise the issues caused by the quantised die temperature
[22:24] <Laurenceb_> maybe if i sinusoidally heat the sensor
[22:24] <Laurenceb_> lol
[22:25] <SpeedEvil> If you read fast enough, does the noise get large enough to reduce the quantisation?
[22:25] <Laurenceb_> yeah it helps
[22:25] <Laurenceb_> im reading at 1hz
[22:25] <Laurenceb_> you can read at 4hz
[22:25] <Laurenceb_> but its not going to solve the problem
[22:26] <Laurenceb_> noise is ~0.12lsb at 1hz
[22:26] <SpeedEvil> :/
[22:27] <Laurenceb_> a kalman should work
[22:27] <Laurenceb_> i guess i dont have a good model or control input
[22:27] <SpeedEvil> Hang on - why does the die heat?
[22:27] <SpeedEvil> Is this still due to the excess visible leakage?
[22:27] <Laurenceb_> 630nm reflecting and hitting it
[22:27] <Laurenceb_> yes
[22:27] <SpeedEvil> Why not just get a bit of germanium window?
[22:28] <Laurenceb_> it already has silicon window
[22:28] <Laurenceb_> but the light is hitting the sides and the pcb
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[22:28] <SpeedEvil> Oh - right.
[22:28] <SpeedEvil> Won't a simple foil shield work for that?
[22:29] <Laurenceb_> probably
[22:29] <Laurenceb_> dont have hardware setup atm to test
[22:29] <SpeedEvil> I see
[22:31] <Laurenceb_> http://pastie.org/3076936
[22:33] <Laurenceb_> im just assuming a random walk between samples
[22:35] <Laurenceb_> couldnt find a way to use cumtrapz
[22:35] <Laurenceb_> but i got cumsum in there XD
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[00:00] --- Tue Dec 27 2011