highaltitude.log.20111223

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[09:43] <edmoore> NigelMoby: http://www.parabolicarc.com/2011/12/22/nasa-conducts-successful-parachute-test-of-orion/orion_parachute/
[09:43] <edmoore> this just appeared in my feed
[09:43] Action: SpeedEvil wants the _proper_ orion with parachutes.
[09:44] <edmoore> the pic is interesting because you can see some of the stuff we were talking about, like the way they've distributed porosity about the canopy
[09:44] <edmoore> an anular gap near the top, selectively removed panels nearer the mouth, etc
[09:44] <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_pulse_propulsion#Medusa
[09:44] <Darkside> SpeedEvil: haha oh yes
[09:44] <Darkside> project orion...
[09:45] <SpeedEvil> Parachutes look so simple, don't they.
[09:45] <SpeedEvil> Anyone can make one.
[09:45] <fsphil> tell that to beagle 2 :)
[09:50] <Upu> aka "Crater"
[09:50] <fsphil> yikes that was 9 years ago
[09:51] <edmoore> SpeedEvil: you're being sarcastic right :)
[09:52] <edmoore> although the aRocket mailing list is full of people who think that and have their chutes as a kind of bolt-on afterthought and then complain wildly that parachutes aren't relaible when it inevitably doesn't work
[09:53] <SpeedEvil> :)
[09:55] <fsphil> "The probe's parachute or cushioning airbags failed to deploy or deployed at the wrong time. This is supported by the observation that throughout the transfer to Mars, the outgassing of some substance and subsequent condensation on optical components of the Mars Express spacecraft carrying the Beagle lander was observed. This observation would be consistent with a leak in the gas generators of Beagle's airbags;"
[09:55] <fsphil> ooh, I had not heard of that idea before
[09:56] <SpeedEvil> Fun
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[10:18] <gonzo_> we played with chutes a lot when doing rockets
[10:19] <gonzo_> had a separating nose cone wit it's own chute and a tv camera
[10:19] <gonzo_> so wanted the smoothest transit down to get good pics
[10:20] <gonzo_> we found the same, a top vent would stop the pendulum effect, as the air didn't need to spill out from the sides so much
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[10:21] <gonzo_> so I assume it was acting more like an air restriction, rather than slicing side to side through the air
[10:24] <daveake> RocketBoy's spereachutes have that hole in them already plus some tape to tie the balloon too. Saves on the cutting and sewing! My first chute I had to do it myself.
[10:24] <gonzo_> I saw one of colin pilinger's lectures, only a few months aftyer the failure. Seemed that jpl.nasa had sold them short. Whoch later came out in the enquiry, only after the press had beaten the UK team up
[10:24] <daveake> that's rough
[10:25] <gonzo_> our chutes were all made from bin bags. low tech but light
[10:25] <edmoore> the spill hole in the top is the easiest way of getting some porosity
[10:25] <edmoore> but you can definitely do better
[10:26] <edmoore> i.e., low oscillation for a given porosity
[10:26] <gonzo_> ours were designed with lots of hand waving and not too much aerodynaamic theory
[10:28] <gonzo_> and suchj low altitude, no extra problems of varying air density
[10:29] <edmoore> yes indeed, that helps
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[12:50] <Laurenceb_> sup
[12:50] <Laurenceb_> anyone here played with ear thermometers?
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[12:50] <Laurenceb_> im wondering if they usually have zinc selenide lenses inside
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[16:32] <hibby> hmm
[16:32] <hibby> CCP, producers of EVE online, are launching a HAB with all their player names in to celebrate something or other
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[17:18] <nosebleedKT> yo
[17:19] <nosebleedKT> merry christams
[17:19] <nosebleedKT> and 2012 is near
[17:19] <nosebleedKT> the end i mean ..
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[17:29] <number10> a different sort of standing wave http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16313855
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[17:38] <Hiena> Grrrr....Kill....kill...kill... and burn with fire! Two wasted week due the incompetence of the Debian package maintainers. Wish i could, charge these stupid monkeys for the ngineering hours.
[17:38] <SpeedEvil> Neat.
[17:42] <Hiena> Yeah, they set the authentication on by default in a software, where there is no way, to turn the authentication off, only on.
[17:48] <SpeedEvil> :/
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[17:50] <jcoxon> evening
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[17:55] <NigeyS> evening James
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[18:00] <jcoxon> very rainy here
[18:00] <NigeyS> snap
[18:01] <chembrow> it's certainly moist here too
[18:01] <number10> and windy
[18:01] <jcoxon> but should stop overnight
[18:01] <cuddykid> chembrow: lol - it's always moist here :(
[18:02] <chembrow> :)
[18:02] <number10> just played the hell wav file - looks like fldigi can cope with two windows running - one on feld the other on slow
[18:02] <number10> is there a pause between slow and feld jcoxon?
[18:02] <jcoxon> nope
[18:02] <number10> OK two windows it is then
[18:02] <chembrow> jcoxon what sort of altitude are you expecting to get tomorrow? unless it's above 10km I won't hear anything
[18:03] <jcoxon> chembrow, 5km i suspetc to tell the truth
[18:03] <jcoxon> chembrow, where are you based?
[18:03] <chembrow> thanks. I figured around that, but was hoping it might go a bit higher.
[18:03] <chembrow> stoke-on-trent.
[18:03] <jcoxon> but you might be suprised
[18:04] <jcoxon> its a much simpler protocol
[18:04] <jcoxon> but its going to move away from you quite quickly
[18:04] <chembrow> I'll give it a go, but past experience says there's too much geography in the way below about 10km
[18:04] <jcoxon> there are going to be a few globaltuners along the route
[18:05] <cuddykid> good luck with the launch jcoxon
[18:05] <jcoxon> thanks
[18:05] <jcoxon> if its raining i'll postpone
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[18:20] <jcoxon> hey RocketBoy
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[18:21] <RocketBoy> yo hojcoxon ready?
[18:21] <jcoxon> yeah though just realised my tx'er is set to 8dbm
[18:21] <jcoxon> might up that a bit...
[18:23] <RocketBoy> I guess it will be lower than most flights - not sure how much difference it will really make
[18:23] <RocketBoy> comms (on not) really seem determined by line of sight
[18:24] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, 38g :-(
[18:24] <jcoxon> we can lift that with 1 balloon can't we
[18:24] <RocketBoy> oh sure - no probs
[18:24] <jcoxon> i've got the parts for my single battery payload
[18:25] <RocketBoy> obviously won't go as high
[18:25] <jcoxon> but i'm being good and going with what i've got
[18:25] <jcoxon> as last minute never never works
[18:25] <BrainDamage> might be of interest here, step-up dcdc with 0.7V min input voltage: http://www.ti.com/product/tps61221
[18:25] <RocketBoy> I'd be interested to see what you are using down to 1.5V
[18:26] <BrainDamage> so you can use even a single AA
[18:26] <BrainDamage> provided it has enough charge
[18:26] <jcoxon> BrainDamage, i've got TPS61200
[18:26] <jcoxon> but i'm not using it
[18:26] <jcoxon> it only arrived yesterday
[18:27] <RocketBoy> bbl - tea
[18:28] <SpeedEvil> I keep wondering about those Rb standards on ebay.
[18:28] <SpeedEvil> 3 Rb stabilised recievers, sampling a few KHz, connected over the internet and a beacon should do fun stuff.
[18:38] <nosebleedKT> natrium42 there?
[18:38] <nosebleedKT> fsphil !
[18:38] <jcoxon> hmmmm
[18:38] <jcoxon> i'm worried the flight just won't go high enough
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[18:49] <navrac> well looking at the landing predictor - with that payload and if you had a 200g balloon you would end up just short of croatia
[18:50] <jcoxon> right i'm not going to fall into this trap
[18:50] <NigeyS> lol
[18:50] <jcoxon> stick with the hardware i've got
[18:50] <NigeyS> dont do it james!
[18:50] <Upu> be interested if I can get it from here
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[18:52] <navrac> its only a regulator james - what could possibly go wrong - and think of the 8g you would save :-)
[18:52] <jcoxon> navrac, or the 8g i can save next flight
[18:52] <jcoxon> with some tested code
[18:53] <navrac> nah you'll save enough with the gps
[18:53] <jcoxon> nah i'm not changing anything
[18:53] <jcoxon> too late
[18:53] <jcoxon> but i've got enough kit for a whole new payload
[18:53] <navrac> I'm still struggling reading the datasheet for that transmitter chip - its like wading through spaghetti
[18:54] <jcoxon> oh yes
[18:54] <jcoxon> i found the libs better documentation
[18:55] <navrac> i'll read them then, too many registers where they only tell you what two bits of them do
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[19:16] <jcoxon> number10, i've added a short gap
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[19:32] <number10> ta
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[19:35] <Laurenceb_> hi all
[19:36] <Laurenceb_> http://e2e.ti.com/support/other_analog/temperature_sensors/f/243/t/117229.aspx
[19:44] <Dan-K2VOL> interesting
[19:47] <SpeedEvil> indeed
[19:55] <Laurenceb_> so basically its a silicon die with the ic on one side
[19:55] <Laurenceb_> and its soldered upside down
[19:55] <Laurenceb_> also someone soldered us up the raspberry ripples
[19:57] <Laurenceb_> you could make a lens by milling away the silicon side of the chip
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[20:00] <Laurenceb_> anyone here ever dismantled an ear thermometer?
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[20:00] <SpeedEvil> Nope
[20:00] <SpeedEvil> I'd imagine a COB pyrometer
[20:00] <SpeedEvil> or something
[20:00] <Laurenceb_> apparently some have zinc selenide lenses inside
[20:01] <Laurenceb_> but i see some patents using a aluminized mylar lined tube
[20:01] <Laurenceb_> which has got to be cheaper
[20:02] <Laurenceb_> so i dont know if any ones you can buy in a shop will have zinc selenide
[20:02] <SpeedEvil> Well - DX has them at $10
[20:02] <Laurenceb_> i see lots of the lenses on alibaba
[20:03] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[20:03] <SpeedEvil> http://www.dealextreme.com/p/1-2-lcd-non-contact-digital-infrared-thermometer-with-laser-sight-50-c-380-c-904435754
[20:03] <SpeedEvil> just got, and works
[20:04] <SpeedEvil> I suppose for your app, a lens which absorbed 900nm strongly would be good
[20:06] <Laurenceb_> thats got focussing optics?
[20:07] <SpeedEvil> yes
[20:07] <SpeedEvil> It's got a poly lens in it
[20:07] <SpeedEvil> It also has a tube at the end.
[20:07] <Laurenceb_> ah - Fresnel?
[20:08] <SpeedEvil> yes
[20:08] <Laurenceb_> interesting
[20:09] <SpeedEvil> Good balance, reasonable responsivity, seems accurate when pointed at stuff.
[20:10] <Laurenceb_> my tmp006 is rather flaky - think its a combination of ambient sensitivity and wide field of view
[20:11] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[20:11] <SpeedEvil> Tried a simple box with a hole in it?
[20:11] <Laurenceb_> actual noise is low
[20:11] <Laurenceb_> not yet
[20:12] <Laurenceb_> i might get an optical bench experiment up and running, maybe with laser heating
[20:13] <SpeedEvil> hmm
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[20:14] <Laurenceb_> its interesting that its more sensative to illumination from below
[20:14] <Laurenceb_> maybe put a via under it and use an off axis mirror
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[21:06] <Chuck__> is there any documentation on the UKHAS flight predictor
[21:06] <Chuck__> ?
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[21:10] <jonsowman> Chuck__: i wrote a small amount on the cusf wiki
[21:11] <jonsowman> Chuck__: http://www.cusf.co.uk/wiki/doku.php?id=landing_predictor
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[21:17] <Dan-K2VOL> hey Jonsowman
[21:17] <jonsowman> hi Dan-K2VOL
[21:17] <Dan-K2VOL> I have a friend who's building a payload, and would like to know who to talk to to get the XML file all set up for spacenear, do you know?
[21:18] <jonsowman> http://habhub.org/genpayload
[21:18] <Dan-K2VOL> ah-ha!
[21:18] <jonsowman> pastie the resulting thing and someone in #habhub will sort it
[21:20] <Dan-K2VOL> muchas gracias!
[21:20] <Chuck__> Thanks! Will read it through.
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[22:24] <russss> http://www.armadilloaerospace.com/n.x/Armadillo/Home/News?news_id=377
[22:24] <Laurenceb_> they have news
[22:24] <Laurenceb_> wtf
[22:24] <Laurenceb_> thought theyd never update that page again
[22:28] <russss> hah
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[22:30] <russss> I haven't seen many liquid-fuelled rockets of that size
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[22:32] <russss> I like the way their van has track lighting.http://media.armadilloaerospace.com/2011_12_04/pics_re/IMG_2344_d_r.JPG
[22:36] <Zuph> Merry Christmas Eve Eve, #highaltitude
[22:36] <fsphil> hehe, I've been saying that to my nieces
[22:36] <fsphil> hour and a half until actual christmas eve here
[22:37] <Lunar_Lander> thanks Zuph, the same to you
[22:38] <Zuph> heh, A bit more waiting for the jolly fat man over here :-p
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[22:39] <fsphil> don't worry, we'll track him on spacenear.us for you
[22:40] <Zuph> Heh, does Santa transmit RTTY?
[22:41] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[22:42] <Laurenceb_> http://media.armadilloaerospace.com/2011_12_04/pics_re/IMG_2368_d_r.JPG
[22:42] <Laurenceb_> lolz
[22:42] <fsphil> Rocket jump
[22:43] <Zuph> heh
[22:44] <daveake> Does Santa log his flight plan?
[22:45] <daveake> "Christmas has been delayed due to lack of a NOTAM"
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> do you know the story about santa having to do that many visits per second that he needs X reindeer and in the end they would just burn up?
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:45] <daveake> Powered by neutrinos
[22:46] <Zuph> http://fastlane.dot.gov/2011/12/faa-clears-santa.html
[22:46] <russss> they have some google maps stuff on http://www.noradsanta.org/
[22:47] <Zuph> According to the FAA, Santa hates Finland.
[22:47] <russss> I never realised that the whole NORAD santa thing happened because of a typo in a Sears advert in the 50s.
[22:47] <russss> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NORAD_Tracks_Santa#History_and_overview
[22:48] <fsphil> what are the odds
[22:51] <daveake> wow
[22:51] <Randomskk> haha that's amazing
[22:54] <russss> I have an awesome new FTDI cable which has a transparent USB housing with embedded red and green status LEDs
[22:55] <russss> it's made my evening.
[22:55] <daveake> :)
[22:55] <daveake> I've installed 300 LEDs in the kitchen; that made my evening :)
[22:57] <Laurenceb_> Apogee was determined from the LEA-5S GPS unit by u-Blox on the AGU. The Novatel GPS in the rocket guidance system continued having lock issues after burnout as it did before the launch; it's highest altitude report was 128595 feet above sea leve
[22:57] <Laurenceb_> pmsl
[22:59] <Laurenceb_> at 18,000 feet above launch pad the rocket was only thirty feet away from being perfectly above the pad
[22:59] <Laurenceb_> wow
[23:00] <Upu> daveake pics or it didn't happen
[23:00] <russss> it seems like Carmack is pretty hot on guidance, if nothing else
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[23:01] <daveake> Upu 5 metres of 60 LEDs per metre LED tape :)
[23:01] <daveake> Stuck to the top of the kitchen cabinets
[23:01] <Upu> lol
[23:03] <russss> I'm fiddling with a Nanode which I'm going to use to ethernet-enable the boiler
[23:03] <russss> so I can turn the central heating on without going downstairs
[23:04] <fsphil> I wonder if packet-enabled light switches would be a good use of amateur radio :)
[23:04] <russss> hah
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[23:06] <Zuph> $6 ism radios would be easier :-p
[23:06] <Zuph> Although the Chinese HTs are getting cheap :-p
[23:06] <Zuph> $50 for a dual bander, now.
[23:08] <fsphil> I got one + usb cable for about £30, including postage
[23:09] <fsphil> and have to say it's pretty good
[23:09] <Upu> does it do USB ?
[23:09] <Upu> i.e can you use it for balloon launches ?
[23:09] <russss> I have a pile of Puxing radios
[23:10] <fsphil> it has a serial port, the usb cable is just a usb<>serial adaptor
[23:10] <russss> they're not dual band, but I got 2m and a 70cm versions, by accident
[23:12] <Zuph> I really like my Wouxun.
[23:13] <fsphil> I used one of those, they're pretty god
[23:13] <fsphil> good
[23:13] <fsphil> the one I got was a baofeng
[23:13] <fsphil> it's sooo tiny
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[23:21] <kristianpaul> fsphil: uv-200?
[23:25] <fsphil> uv-2r I think
[23:25] <fsphil> uv-3r even
[23:27] <kristianpaul> had you make it work at 200 - 250Mhz?
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[23:33] <fsphil> I've read about it but haven't
[23:34] <fsphil> it's no an amateur band here, doubt there is very much there
[23:35] <kristianpaul> oh, there is :-)
[23:37] <fsphil> what am I missing? :)
[23:37] <fsphil> the funcube dongle can receive that frequency range
[23:41] <chris_99> you guys might be interested in this http://www.armadilloaerospace.com/n.x/Armadillo/Home/News?news_id=377
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[23:54] <jcoxon> evening
[23:54] <Darkside> yo
[23:54] <Laurenceb_> lol raspberry pi failed
[23:54] <Laurenceb_> looks like it needs a jumper to make it boot properly or something
[23:54] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: ouch
[23:55] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: i've got 2 beaglebones on the way anyway :P
[23:55] <Laurenceb_> heh
[23:55] <Darkside> jcoxon: i used your feld-hell code :P
[23:55] <Darkside> might fly a slow-hell HF payload for kicks sometime
[23:55] <jcoxon> :-)
[23:55] <jcoxon> i welcome any improvments
[23:56] <jcoxon> cause i'm terrible at coding
[23:56] <Darkside> well the main one i want to do is pulse shaping
[23:56] <Darkside> but i cant do that on my current signal generator
[23:56] <Lunar_Lander1> hi jcoxon
[23:57] <jcoxon> hey Lunar_Lander1
[23:57] <jcoxon> hmmm its going to be a bit blowy tomorrow
[23:57] <Lunar_Lander1> yea
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[00:00] --- Sat Dec 24 2011