highaltitude.log.20111221

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[03:58] <snelly> does anyone know if Jason of RPC Electronics hangs out on IRC?
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[08:00] <jcoxon> morning all
[08:00] <number10> morning
[08:01] <jcoxon> shame there aren't any launches planned over the christmas period
[08:01] <number10> yes, I was asked if anyone was launching the other day - but I dont think there is
[08:01] <number10> asking
[08:01] <jcoxon> i could launch a pico flight
[08:01] <jcoxon> but need to get some He
[08:01] <number10> :)
[08:02] <number10> are you back in suffolk over christmas?
[08:02] <jcoxon> yeah
[08:03] <jcoxon> its a little bit blowy though
[08:03] <number10> yes, I dont know what the forcast is for over the christmas weekend
[08:05] <number10> just looked at gib data and will be windy up untill monday (end of data)
[08:06] <number10> 10 knots sat, 16knots monday
[08:10] <jcoxon> hmmmm
[08:10] <jcoxon> my problem is getting some helium
[08:10] <jcoxon> am working till at least 5 every day this week
[08:10] <jcoxon> so can't collect
[08:12] <number10> is a problem, not too sure I can get out of work here - even if I knew where to get some
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[08:21] <jcoxon> number10, am on the case...
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[09:21] <earthshine> Anyone know roughly what the air pressure at 30km is?
[09:23] <Randomskk> earthshine: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=air+pressure+at+30km
[09:23] <Randomskk> suggests 12mbar
[09:24] <earthshine> excellent
[09:25] <earthshine> Was checking out the MS5611 air pressure sensor - has a 24 bt add and can go down to 10mbar
[09:25] <earthshine> 24-bit adc
[09:25] <earthshine> Looks ideal for HAB
[09:25] <Darkside> that sounds good
[09:26] <earthshine> cheap too - http://www.embeddedadventures.com/barometric_pressure_sensor_module_mod-1009.html
[09:26] <Darkside> http://www.meas-spec.com/downloads/MS5611-01BA01.pdf
[09:26] <Darkside> wow
[09:27] <Darkside> i bet we can get the individual sensors cheaper than that
[09:27] <earthshine> yeah
[09:28] <Darkside> accuracy drops below 400mbar according to the datasheet
[09:28] <earthshine> yeah but so do most of the others used in HAB
[09:29] <Darkside> yeah
[09:29] <Darkside> now where do i get the individual sensors...
[09:29] <Darkside> octopart isnt helping
[09:32] <earthshine> Try contact the manufacturer - http://www.meas-spec.com/product/t_product.aspx?id=8501
[09:33] <earthshine> Click the HOW TO BUY tab
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[13:31] <WillDuckworth> anyone know if it's 'ok' to have multiple transmitters using the same antenna (maybe not at the same time)
[13:31] <Randomskk> uhm
[13:32] <Randomskk> why?
[13:32] <Randomskk> mostly the answer is "not without an antenna switcher"
[13:33] <WillDuckworth> just thinking of a simple payload with transmitters hooked up to the same aerial. not sure how best to implement a switcher
[13:34] <Randomskk> why are you having multiple transmitters though?
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[13:34] <Randomskk> probably simplest to just have multiple antennas
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[13:34] <WillDuckworth> yeah - think might just go that way with one each
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[13:40] <Laurenceb> http://www.doriclenses.com/coupling_efficiency.php
[13:40] <Laurenceb> useful
[13:52] <cuddykid> WillDuckworth: I considered using 1 antenna for downlink and uplink but going with separate ones now
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[13:53] <fsphil> we used two on cirrus, both transmitting. worked well
[13:53] <fsphil> one on top, one on bottom
[13:54] <WillDuckworth> cool - cheers.
[13:54] <cuddykid> poo& I like the new logo/text on wiki :D
[13:55] <cuddykid> WillDuckworth: any idea when your next launch will be?
[13:55] <WillDuckworth> i'm planning a launch weekend of the 7th jan - fingers crossed.
[13:55] <cuddykid> most of the coding is done for my next one - just requires soldering / electronics etc
[13:55] <WillDuckworth> from Ledbury again
[13:55] <cuddykid> ooo
[13:55] <cuddykid> nice!
[13:56] <fsphil> snazzy
[13:56] <fsphil> (the logo)
[13:57] <cuddykid> yeah! Anyone know who changed it?
[13:57] <fsphil> oddly the map on the balloon shows north america :)
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[13:57] <cuddykid> lol - never spotted that!
[13:57] <fsphil> there was some talk on the list about it
[13:58] <fsphil> daniel saul did it
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[14:28] Action: Laurenceb is testing 6W leds
[14:28] <Laurenceb> cant see anything
[14:29] Action: hibby suspects there's a relationship
[14:30] <fsphil> lol
[14:32] <Zuph> http://bit.ly/tbmwIG 100 trillion dollars.
[14:34] <SpeedEvil> Zuph: I pondered getting one on ebay ages ago.
[14:34] <SpeedEvil> But it's boring.
[14:35] <Zuph> heh
[14:35] <Zuph> It's a funny novelty.
[14:36] <SpeedEvil> I mean the design
[14:37] <Zuph> ah
[14:37] <Zuph> The Tesla Yugoslavian currency is pretty cool: http://zimbabwedollars.net/p/yugoslavia-10-billion-dinara-nikola-tesla
[14:42] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/oj4tF.png
[14:43] <Zuph> Also, the Kepler website has really awesome data visualizations for a bunch of exoplanets: http://kepler.nasa.gov/Mission/discoveries/
[14:44] <SpeedEvil> On a related matter.
[14:44] <Laurenceb> quantisation on the ambient sensor is a pita
[14:44] <SpeedEvil> I watched much of the confrerece.
[14:44] <SpeedEvil> Does anyone know where the archives are?
[14:44] <SpeedEvil> Asteroseismology is fascinating.
[14:45] <navrac> http://ukhas.org.uk/general:ukhasconference
[14:45] <fsphil> don't think he meant that conference
[14:46] <navrac> sorry thought you meant the conference archives
[14:46] <fsphil> I really must encode the last video I got for that
[14:46] <navrac> i was just watching one of the videos so I got confused - easy at my age
[14:49] <fsphil> I've got a wireless mic for next time, and hopefully someone else can bring one too
[14:49] <fsphil> should get much better audio
[14:51] <SpeedEvil> No, Kepler conference.
[14:51] <SpeedEvil> Sorry
[14:51] <SpeedEvil> I don't - think - anyones done asteroseismology from a HAB
[14:52] <fsphil> now that would need some precision aiming
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[14:56] <Zuph> Did some extremely basic stuff to that effect in college, but that was before Kepler had even launched.
[14:57] <Zuph> Very fun course, though.
[14:57] <SpeedEvil> Kepler basically makes ground based look silly
[14:57] <SpeedEvil> It measures to ~5ppm (IIRC)
[14:57] <SpeedEvil> And staring for months
[14:57] <SpeedEvil> years
[14:57] <Zuph> heh, yeah
[14:57] <Zuph> It's an absurd revolution.
[14:57] <SpeedEvil> There is so much data.
[15:00] <Laurenceb> asteroseismology?
[15:01] <SpeedEvil> listening to the music of the spheres.
[15:01] <SpeedEvil> Reading internal vibrations of stars by observing their brightness variations, and inferring stuff about them.
[15:01] <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asteroseismology
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[16:21] <fsphil> today seems to be going on forever
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[16:26] <Dan-K2VOL> I agree
[16:26] <hibby> mmhmm
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[16:43] <Dan-K2VOL> ok, I suppose we ought to start doing some amateur temporal science if this is so widespread
[16:51] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: http://i.imgur.com/VPAEf.png
[16:51] <fsphil> lol
[16:51] <Laurenceb> TMP006 over a table with optic fibre coming in
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[16:52] <fsphil> anyone know doc. browns number?
[16:53] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: That's what - a squarewave of IR hitting the table?
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[16:54] <Laurenceb> yes
[16:54] <Laurenceb> the spikes are bizarre
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[16:55] <SpeedEvil> Direct response to IR?>
[16:55] <SpeedEvil> shortwave IR
[16:55] <Laurenceb> hmm
[16:55] <SpeedEvil> affecting the sense-amp?
[16:55] <Laurenceb> possible i guess
[16:55] <Laurenceb> yeah theres some reflection - you can see from the sensor heating
[16:56] <Laurenceb> so as its bga bare die itll be easy for the light to hit the silicon
[16:56] <Laurenceb> i used to have a lcd monitor that broke if you took a photo with flash
[16:56] <Laurenceb> screwed up the COG
[16:56] <Laurenceb> this might be similar i suppose
[16:58] <SpeedEvil> I wonder if 808nm would have sufficiently lower respons
[16:59] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LOT-5-808nm-high-power-burning-laser-diode-1-watt-DPSS-IR-illuminator-/180777706979?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a1730e5e3
[17:00] <Laurenceb> lol
[17:00] <SpeedEvil> hot air?
[17:00] <Laurenceb> this thing already hurts my fingers if i put them over the fibre
[17:00] <Laurenceb> hot air effects the sensor too much
[17:01] <Laurenceb> very efficient
[17:02] <Laurenceb> and they would couple better to a small fibre
[17:02] <Laurenceb> atm im onlt getting ~15/20% coupling with a 2mm fibre
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[17:03] <SpeedEvil> This is ...
[17:03] <SpeedEvil> oh - 6W LED
[17:03] <Laurenceb> yes
[17:03] <Laurenceb> but im running closer to 1W
[17:04] <Laurenceb> as i dont want to melt the fibre where its clamped onto the led
[17:04] <Laurenceb> led on stripboard -> M4 bolts -> mdf with 2mm hole
[17:05] <Laurenceb> and i pushed the fibre through then adjusted the bolts for best alignment
[17:05] <Laurenceb> seems to work as well as http://www.doriclenses.com/coupling_efficiency.php would suggest
[17:07] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/f1Bsb.png
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[17:38] <jcoxon> evening
[17:38] <Laurenceb> hi there
[17:38] <Laurenceb> did you post the valve?
[17:39] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: http://i.imgur.com/5oOq2.png even better with bloack plastic
[17:40] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, its only just gone into the post
[17:40] <jcoxon> today
[17:40] <Laurenceb> ok, thanks
[17:40] <jcoxon> i fear it might take a bit of time considering its christmas
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[17:41] <Laurenceb> doesnt matter
[17:41] <Laurenceb> im busy anyway
[17:42] <Laurenceb> bbl
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[19:04] <chembrow> evening all
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[19:10] <fsphil> ullo
[19:11] <daveake> evenin'
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[19:56] <Laurenceb_> reprap is looking quite impressive now
[20:11] <Zuph> Laurenceb_: ?
[20:12] <Laurenceb_> the rapid prototyper 3d printer thingy
[20:12] <Laurenceb_> looks like the performance is progressing a bit
[20:15] <Zuph> Oh, I'm working on my own reprap. I just haven't been aware of any recent leaps.
[20:16] <Zuph> I saw an Up! 3d printer yesterday. It was worlds beyond any of the reprap/makerbot family printers :-\
[20:22] <Laurenceb_> wow
[20:22] <Laurenceb_> thats really neat
[20:22] <Laurenceb_> http://pp3dp.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=114:photo7&catid=55:printer-photo&Itemid=74
[20:22] <Laurenceb_> any idea what that does?
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[20:26] <Laurenceb_> http://reprap.org/wiki/Generation_6_Electronics
[20:26] <Laurenceb_> looks impressive, better than the lame ardunino stuff they had before
[20:27] <Zuph> Laurenceb_: That part detects tension on the filament, then dispenses another 6 inches of filament.
[20:27] <Zuph> They use a printed, bearing-less filament spool, so it's necessary.
[20:27] <Laurenceb_> i see
[20:27] Nick change: Guest19062 -> NigeyS
[20:28] <Zuph> I'm working on some reprap electronics with an STM32 processor
[20:29] <Zuph> With ethernet and sd access built in.
[20:29] <Zuph> Although I say "working" pretty loosely. I haven't touched the thing in 2 months.
[20:30] <Laurenceb_> ethernet would be neat
[20:30] <Laurenceb_> you could... use a raspberry pi
[20:30] <Laurenceb_> if it ever comes out
[20:31] <Zuph> heh
[20:31] <Zuph> I imagine they're going to be hard to get for quite a while.
[20:32] <Zuph> I mean, the thing basically captures a perfect intersection of the electronics and software nerd markets.
[20:32] <Laurenceb_> and 0% of eductational XD
[20:32] <Laurenceb_> *educational
[20:33] <Zuph> hah
[20:34] <Zuph> Although they have destroyed the $100 threshold for embedded Linux boards. Maybe it will spur others to follow suit.
[20:35] <chembrow> I think I will have to cry if I miss the opportunity to get a couple.
[20:38] <Laurenceb_> i have some df3120 units
[20:38] <Laurenceb_> but they dont have ethernet
[20:40] <Zuph> I wish I had caught the fire sale on the chumby clones a while ago.
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[20:46] <NigeyS> Sony has unveiled a paper-powered battery prototype in Japan.
[20:46] <NigeyS> The technology generates electricity by turning shredded paper into sugar which in turn is used as fuel.
[20:46] <NigeyS> neat!
[20:53] <Dan-K2VOL> oh pshaw, prototypes of engineering and science are hardly worth the money spent to publicise them until they actually are feasable
[20:55] <Dan-K2VOL> I think we should be able to filter out the "this will be amazing if we can make it work outside the lab!" from science news sites
[20:55] <Dan-K2VOL> I've hardly ever seen anything like that ever show up again
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[20:56] <eroomde> they often do to be fair
[20:56] <eroomde> but often >decade later
[20:56] <Dan-K2VOL> often?
[20:57] <eroomde> it's like a promising result in a clinical lab often isn't a sellable drug until about 14 years later
[20:57] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah
[20:58] <NigeyS> 14 years? :o
[20:58] <eroomde> the news sites often pick a specific result from a specific research group but usually that's just part of a general research effort around th world that will end up with something
[20:58] <eroomde> NigeyS: yep
[20:58] <NigeyS> wow
[20:58] <eroomde> 14 years and billions and billions of dollars
[20:58] <Dan-K2VOL> exactly, and that's only after it passes reproducible other lab testings, and tons of other things. Why bother to waste the public braintime with fluff that's could still (and likely will) be found to be impractical to bring to the real world, just tell your investors, and wait until it's a sure thing
[20:58] <eroomde> that's why pharma companies are so enormous and drugs are so expensive
[20:58] <NigeyS> i know the clinical trials can take a while but dam.. didnt think it was that long
[21:00] <Dan-K2VOL> there's already enough doubt about the veracity of science, I don't think the classic excited product-predicting lab scientist press release helps that any
[21:00] <Zuph> It takes forever to get approvals to move through each stage of trials and testing, and unless you can afford to basically hemorrhage money while waiting, you'll go bankrupt before your device/drug makes it to market.
[21:00] <Dan-K2VOL> then change the way we fund them.
[21:00] <Dan-K2VOL> we need to make science clearer to the public
[21:00] <Dan-K2VOL> not more vague and uncertain - it
[21:00] <Dan-K2VOL> s got that in spades by design
[21:01] <NigeyS> heh dunno about the u.s but we're going through some massive funding cuts over here :(
[21:01] <Dan-K2VOL> :-( indeed
[21:01] <jcoxon> Dan-K2VOL, but gone are the days of being able to know a small amount about lots of things
[21:02] <NigeyS> evening James
[21:02] <Dan-K2VOL> exactly, so why waste the precious time you have to absorb info on predictions of the future that claim to be important information?
[21:02] Action: jcoxon spends alot of his day explaing sicence to people
[21:03] <Dan-K2VOL> hi James
[21:03] <jcoxon> science*
[21:05] <NigeyS> James, did i see something earlier about a pico launch over the holidays? :D
[21:05] <jcoxon> yes
[21:05] <jcoxon> indeed
[21:06] <NigeyS> if id have thought i'd have got 1 prepared, but ive only 1 balloon, would never make the payload light enough :/
[21:09] <Dan-K2VOL> u sure NigeyS? you could use yagi antenna headings with a single oscillator circuit
[21:09] <Dan-K2VOL> :-P
[21:09] <Dan-K2VOL> not a fun time tracking that though
[21:09] <NigeyS> heh positive
[21:14] <eroomde> jcoxon: how are things?
[21:14] <jcoxon> eroomde, good thanks
[21:15] <jcoxon> better rotation now
[21:15] <eroomde> uhuh
[21:15] <eroomde> saner hours?
[21:16] <jcoxon> much
[21:16] <jcoxon> less pay though
[21:16] <jcoxon> but thats okay
[21:17] <NigeyS> but you get proper sleep.... :D
[21:17] <RocketBoy> hey jcoxon - whats ash cash wrt doctoring
[21:18] <jcoxon> something we don't talk about too much ;-)
[21:18] <eroomde> hah
[21:18] <eroomde> you told me about it
[21:18] <eroomde> you paid for a few payloads that way
[21:18] <eroomde> i'll stop digging for you
[21:19] <jcoxon> its a fee for cremation forms and taking responsibility that no foul play occured in someones death
[21:19] <RocketBoy> ah ok - I have the right idea - thanks for confirming
[21:19] <russss> ash cash
[21:19] <russss> heh
[21:20] <RocketBoy> someone suggest it was like £70
[21:20] <jcoxon> 73.50
[21:20] <RocketBoy> wow - cerching
[21:21] <jcoxon> but if some one is cremated and then someone thinks perhaps it something dodgey occured you in theory go up in court
[21:21] <jcoxon> they are planning to phase it out
[21:21] <RocketBoy> guess its probably index linked
[21:21] <jcoxon> burial you can exhume them
[21:21] <eroomde> the cremator price index
[21:21] <RocketBoy> CPI
[21:23] <jcoxon> 1/4 wave radials
[21:23] <jcoxon> 2vs4
[21:23] <jcoxon> go
[21:23] <NigeyS> 2
[21:24] <Zuph> hah
[21:24] <NigeyS> picochu used 2 and we got awsome reception from it
[21:25] <RocketBoy> with 2 your get a eliptical radiation pattern - but the studd i read suggests is less than 1db
[21:26] <NigeyS> well, with 2 i could track from inside on the whip, and that was with the brecon beacons in the way ..
[21:27] <RocketBoy> the more (equi-spaced radials) the rounder it gets
[21:27] <NigeyS> http://twitpic.com/71a23h
[21:29] <RocketBoy> YAFC - yet another flight controller?
[21:33] <jcoxon> hehe i think thats mininut
[21:33] <NigeyS> meganut
[21:34] <NigeyS> simple ntx2, gps, and temp sensor, small and light enough for picos to
[21:35] <NigeyS> instead of chucking an sma adapter on there for the antenna, we just soldered 3 radials in the footprint, 1 center radial, and 1 either side diagnally, so its a kinda dipole i guess
[21:38] <jcoxon> so yeah are people up for a launch on saturday morning
[21:38] <jcoxon> looking at the suicide flight path there are a few global tuners on the way
[21:39] <NigeyS> suicide flight path hah good one james :p
[21:40] <NigeyS> what direction is it heading ?
[21:41] <jcoxon> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=75b603318b6c906f694901101c6aaa039c1ebfd4
[21:41] <NigeyS> oo belgium again
[21:42] <daveake> Bit further and it'll land in Buzzland :)
[21:42] <eroomde> i am going to amsterdam in 8 hours
[21:42] <jcoxon> oh nice
[21:42] <eroomde> please delay until i've landed :)
[21:42] <daveake> I can recommend a recovery expert :)
[21:42] <jcoxon> 24/12/11 eroomde
[21:43] <NigeyS> jcoxon, should be covered quite well by the folkstones globaltuners radios
[21:43] <jcoxon> exactly
[21:43] <jcoxon> now its going to be hellschreiber
[21:43] <jcoxon> so its going to need some decoding
[21:43] <jcoxon> its my xmas challenge
[21:43] <NigeyS> that's gonna be fun
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[22:01] <Upu> how do I decode Hellschriber ?
[22:01] <Upu> I mean
[22:01] <Upu> I know I just read it and write it down
[22:01] <Upu> how do I display it on the screen ?
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[22:07] <Raul_> Hey
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[22:09] Nick change: RocketBoy -> G8KHW
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[23:04] <Laurenceb_> Upu: ping
[23:04] <Upu> pong
[23:05] <Upu> evening Laurenceb
[23:05] <Laurenceb_> the pcb - id worry about the bmp085
[23:05] <Upu> ok
[23:05] <Laurenceb_> theres a via under it
[23:05] <Laurenceb_> thats going to be hard to solder
[23:05] <Upu> yes I noticed that
[23:05] <Laurenceb_> witohut bridging
[23:06] <Laurenceb_> id try moving it to the left of the sensor
[23:06] <Laurenceb_> that heatsinking is weird
[23:06] <Upu> yeah I know
[23:06] <Laurenceb_> why the fins?
[23:06] <Upu> artistic license
[23:06] <Upu> :)
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[23:08] <Upu> I suppose the whole thing could be solid
[23:09] <Laurenceb_> other than that i cant see anything
[23:09] <Laurenceb_> but havent really looked at everything
[23:09] <Upu> thats great thanks for taking the time to have a look
[23:09] <Upu> I'll see if I can move that via somewhere
[23:10] <Laurenceb_> you are thinking of putting power leds on the outside?
[23:11] <Upu> no there are 2 LEDs on there
[23:11] <Laurenceb_> i see
[23:11] <Upu> one for power one one that blinks when you program it or can be used for program indication
[23:11] <Laurenceb_> my 6W led is crazy bright
[23:11] <Laurenceb_> lights up half the room
[23:11] <Upu> whether we put them on is another matter
[23:12] <Upu> well yeah could put a CREE X3 on and blink it :)
[23:12] <Upu> http://uk.farnell.com/cree/xmlezw-00-0000-0000s630f/led-x-lamp-xmla-1200lm/dp/1892513
[23:12] <Upu> not sure how long the batteries would last
[23:13] <Upu> 2A :)
[23:14] <Upu> right I'm calling it a night
[23:14] <andrew_apex> Apex II (dawn launch) had a 5W LED in the neck of the balloon :D
[23:14] <Upu> lol
[23:14] <Upu> did it work ?
[23:14] <andrew_apex> ish. The LED was too far down the neck to light up the balloon as much as we wanted
[23:14] <Upu> lol
[23:14] <Upu> nice
[23:14] <Upu> ok night all
[23:14] <andrew_apex> night Upu :)
[23:14] <fsphil> would've been cool
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[00:00] --- Thu Dec 22 2011