highaltitude.log.20111213

[00:06] <Lunar_Lander> good night
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[02:40] <bgelb> howdy dan
[02:52] <W0OTM> WOW
[02:52] <W0OTM> K6RPT
[02:52] <W0OTM> Im imspressed
[02:52] <W0OTM> this thing is going to make it off the east coast
[02:52] <bgelb> wondering why it is not falling after sunset
[02:52] <bgelb> holding rock steady
[02:56] <SpeedEvil> It fell a bit
[02:56] <SpeedEvil> IIRC
[02:57] <Dan-K2VOL> hi
[02:57] <bgelb> yea a little I guess
[02:57] <bgelb> < 1000 ft I think
[02:57] <Dan-K2VOL> ehllo there ben
[02:58] <bgelb> good entertainment today :)
[02:58] <bgelb> one would have been impressive
[02:58] <bgelb> but 3!
[02:58] <Dan-K2VOL> It sure is! A first class, old fashioned air race
[02:59] <bgelb> just hoping it can turn north
[02:59] <bgelb> for longer time in listening range
[03:00] <bgelb> not counting on it though
[03:00] <bgelb> is the NG0X balloon a ZP?
[03:03] <SpeedEvil> Neat - it's only ~220 miles till the coast
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[03:12] <Dan-K2VOL> no both hwoyee latex
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[03:20] <bgelb> wonder if this result is reproducible
[03:21] <Dan-K2VOL> I do believe that it's been reproduced 3 times today :-)
[03:21] <bgelb> does not seem like latex should behave this way
[03:21] <bgelb> is NG0X's balloon latex also?
[03:24] <Dan-K2VOL> eys
[03:25] <natrium42> are those chinese balloons?
[03:25] <natrium42> hwoyee
[03:25] <Dan-K2VOL> yes
[03:25] <Dan-K2VOL> that's why they're doing this
[03:25] <natrium42> kk, neat
[03:25] <Dan-K2VOL> that brand doesn't like to rupture
[03:25] <natrium42> :D
[03:25] <Dan-K2VOL> it frequently superpressures when ascent rate is low near predicted burst
[03:26] <W0OTM> Dan-K2VOL: what is APRS coverage like over the atlantic?
[03:26] <W0OTM> Is it really possible it will stay up over night
[03:27] <W0OTM> as it heads towards Bermuda
[03:27] <bgelb> somebody needs to scramble a digi balloon to send up behind it
[03:27] <natrium42> Dan-K2VOL: so it looks like it is possible to cross the atlantic with latex
[03:28] <natrium42> wanna try from the east coast?
[03:29] <bgelb> did not know the winds moved so quickly at 100kft
[03:30] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah me either, nobody forecasts that high
[03:30] <bgelb> where does hysplit top out
[03:31] <bgelb> i think its going to miss bermuda :(
[03:31] <bgelb> i know a ham there too.
[03:32] <Dan-K2VOL> we're finding out
[03:32] <Dan-K2VOL> but it's whatever GFS tops out at, 80kft I think
[03:32] <Dan-K2VOL> Tyler here at White Star is looking it up bgelb
[03:32] <bgelb> cool
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[03:50] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm maybe 20mb
[03:51] <W0OTM> Dan-K2VOL: what is APRS coverage over the atlantic?
[03:52] <Dan-K2VOL> aa
[03:53] <Dan-K2VOL> well, they'll probably get about 300 miles out at this altitude
[03:53] <Darkside> i wonder how much longer their battery is going to last
[03:53] <Dan-K2VOL> a close contender to my old record
[03:53] <Darkside> they were right to use a long beacon period through
[03:53] <Dan-K2VOL> but they will likely set over the 2m horizon
[03:53] <Darkside> NG0X-2's batteries have died
[03:53] <Dan-K2VOL> no, actually they froze
[03:53] <Dan-K2VOL> they did the same last night
[03:53] <Darkside> oh?
[03:53] <Dan-K2VOL> but it may use up the rest overnight
[03:54] <Dan-K2VOL> switch the setting 2-days
[03:54] <Dan-K2VOL> you can see the gap
[03:54] <Darkside> thats on 012
[03:54] <Darkside> -12*
[03:54] <Darkside> not -11
[03:54] <SpeedEvil> Getting there!
[03:54] <SpeedEvil> Wow - is that 147MPH real?
[03:54] <Dan-K2VOL> the gap on NG0X-2
[03:54] <Dan-K2VOL> yes
[03:54] <Darkside> is anyone going to pick up -12?
[03:54] <Dan-K2VOL> it's been kickin that most of the continent
[03:54] <Dan-K2VOL> yes, SpacePort Indiana is
[03:55] <Darkside> its been sitting on the ground for a while
[03:55] <SpeedEvil> Awesome!
[03:56] <W0OTM> Is someone driving to get K6RPT-11?
[03:56] <W0OTM> I mean 12
[03:56] <W0OTM> oops
[03:57] <Dan-K2VOL> yes, Brian from SpacePortIndiana
[03:57] <W0OTM> Ook
[03:57] <Dan-K2VOL> where we launch
[03:57] <W0OTM> Im really impressed with this launch
[03:58] <Dan-K2VOL> very fun to have 5 at once, as you can see only 1 out of 5 made it transcontinental, which speaks to the difficulty
[03:58] <W0OTM> well, NG0X aint done yet
[03:58] <W0OTM> LOL
[03:59] <Darkside> oh jeez, -11 is a 1600g hwoyee
[03:59] <Dan-K2VOL> true, but NG0X is already out to sea, and won't be transmitting again till morning
[04:00] <Dan-K2VOL> they are both hwoyees that are left
[04:00] <Dan-K2VOL> well, presumably NG0X-2 is still out there ahead of this one
[04:01] <Darkside> any idea what batteries they are using?
[04:01] <W0OTM> amazing
[04:01] <Darkside> they're saying 50 hours life
[04:01] <W0OTM> what is the xmtr?
[04:01] <Dan-K2VOL> not sure, but probably energizers
[04:01] <Darkside> its a BigRedBee APRS tracker
[04:01] <Dan-K2VOL> big red bee
[04:01] <Darkside> 5W i believe
[04:02] <Dan-K2VOL> ahh that sounds high for the runtime
[04:02] <Darkside> its a 2 min period
[04:02] <Darkside> so the duty cycle will be quite low
[04:02] <Darkside> i guess they'll want 5W in the US to get into the network amongst everything else
[04:02] <Darkside> in australia we just use 300mW and that works fine...
[04:04] <W0OTM> so they just lost $265.00 x 2?
[04:04] <Darkside> yep
[04:04] <Dan-K2VOL> hahah my text-to-speech is running on this chatroom in our hackerspace so I can work on other things and hear it, and it always says megawatts when it sees mW
[04:04] <Darkside> well, x1
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[04:04] <SpeedEvil> Well - it may fall _really_ fast.
[04:04] <SpeedEvil> :)
[04:04] <Darkside> Dan-K2VOL: LOUD SWEAR WORDS
[04:05] <W0OTM> now I think this is the dumbest launch
[04:05] <Dan-K2VOL> hahaha
[04:05] <Dan-K2VOL> yes everyone looked at you darkside
[04:05] <Darkside> W0OTM: they'll get one back
[04:05] <W0OTM> one.....
[04:05] <Darkside> Dan is looking at porno
[04:05] <SpeedEvil> I guess next but one datapoint is feet-wet
[04:05] <Darkside> Dan-K2VOL: don't ever use text to speech on IRC
[04:05] <SpeedEvil> Maybe next but two - just
[04:05] <Dan-K2VOL> 10 minutes to the coast
[04:05] <Dan-K2VOL> lol
[04:06] <Dan-K2VOL> hehe W0OTM sometimes you just need to throw money away to have fun
[04:06] <W0OTM> Dan-K2VOL: wow......
[04:06] <bgelb_> is it possible to get goog earth to plot footprint for the balloon
[04:07] <W0OTM> Dan-K2VOL: I guess I have crashed several planes with my BallooMerang project....no different
[04:07] <Darkside> W0OTM: their aprs tracker is a bit expensive, thats for sure
[04:07] <Dan-K2VOL> probably, the radius should be 463 mi
[04:07] <Darkside> the ones i've develiped are about $120 of parts
[04:07] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah I wouldn't pay that for one
[04:07] <Darkside> i could get that lower if i could find a decent replacement for the radiometrix modules
[04:07] <Darkside> i noticed the bigredbee payloads have some analog devices chip on them, not sure what it is though
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[04:08] <W0OTM> UHF APRS in the US is needed
[04:08] <Dan-K2VOL> how come, shorter antennas?
[04:08] <W0OTM> all around cheaper
[04:09] <Darkside> W0OTM: not really
[04:09] <SpeedEvil> Missed prior datapoint?
[04:09] <W0OTM> I think so
[04:09] <Darkside> hmm, i think the ADF7012 does ASK
[04:09] <imrcly> Dan-K2VOL: yeah
[04:09] <bgelb_> yea i was about to suggest the ADF7012
[04:10] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah yeah indeed yeah!
[04:10] <W0OTM> Is Brian getting 12 now?
[04:10] <bgelb_> you use FSK mode, just toggle it at 1200 or 2200 hz
[04:10] <Dan-K2VOL> Not sure when, probably tomorrow though
[04:10] <W0OTM> how close is he.....kinda late to be knocking on the door
[04:10] <W0OTM> oh ok
[04:10] <bgelb_> for mark + space respectively in AFSK
[04:10] Action: W0OTM get in a car, going to get 12 before Brian does
[04:10] <Dan-K2VOL> haha
[04:11] <bgelb_> kinda late there ...
[04:11] <bgelb_> hope they are friendly
[04:12] <SpeedEvil> I love how far I had to zoom in to see if that point was on land.
[04:12] <Dan-K2VOL> little egg last land
[04:12] <Darkside> bgelb_: APRS isnt FSK through
[04:12] <SpeedEvil> 'possibly'
[04:12] <Darkside> its AFSK
[04:12] <SpeedEvil> Depending on the tide.
[04:12] <Darkside> bgelb_: http://www.silcom.com/~pelican2/PicoDopp/MB_SCH.jpg check out what they're doing
[04:12] <SpeedEvil> Though this one isn't. :)
[04:13] <Darkside> they're modulating the crystal thats driving the ADF7012
[04:13] <bgelb_> !!!
[04:13] <bgelb_> aghghh
[04:14] <bgelb_> i mean
[04:14] <bgelb_> i guess it works :)
[04:14] <W0OTM> 12 died
[04:14] <bgelb_> just makes me want to take a shower
[04:15] <bgelb_> why use the 7012 at all then?
[04:15] <bgelb_> or do they do other modes besides afsk
[04:15] <Darkside> it doesnt fo AFSK sorry
[04:15] <Darkside> it does ASK
[04:15] <bgelb_> why module the xtal then??
[04:18] <Dan-K2VOL> http://bit.ly/w2f9BG wind map at 10mb
[04:18] <Dan-K2VOL> they are flying at 7.8mb according to the standard atmosphere
[04:19] <Darkside> bgelb_: ASK != AFSK
[04:20] <Dan-K2VOL> 10mb is ~102,000ft
[04:20] <bgelb_> Darkside, I agree. But why do you need to modulate the frequency to acheive ASK?
[04:25] <Darkside> bgelb_: i want AFSK
[04:25] <Darkside> not ASK
[04:25] <Darkside> APRS is FM Modulated FSK
[04:26] <Darkside> ack, FM FSK
[04:26] <bgelb_> yea, its an audio tone FM modulated
[04:26] <Darkside> yes
[04:26] <Darkside> the ADF7012 won't do that
[04:26] <bgelb_> yep, so I what I was saying, this is what big red bee does iirc
[04:26] <Darkside> so what they do is use the ADF7012 as a simple carrier generator
[04:26] <bgelb_> you can set the ADF7012 in FSK mode, and then send a 101010101010 pattern
[04:26] <Darkside> and modulate the crystal, to do FM
[04:26] <bgelb_> switch the baud rate between 1200Hz and 2200Hz
[04:27] <Darkside> oh really?
[04:27] <bgelb_> which effectively provides you w/ FM modulation at the desired "tone" frequency
[04:27] <Darkside> now thats interesting
[04:27] <Darkside> got any docs on that?
[04:27] <Darkside> because theres no schematics available for the bigredbee
[04:27] <bgelb_> though you might spectrally cleaner output w/ this approach
[04:27] <bgelb_> gosh, trying to remember where I saw it
[04:27] <Darkside> yeah
[04:27] <bgelb_> years ago
[04:28] <Darkside> we currently use radiometrix modules, and we get a very clean output
[04:28] <bgelb_> the 8-bit DAC will be pretty clean compared to hard toggling probably
[04:28] <Darkside> yeah
[04:28] <bgelb_> though it all depends on how the 7012 works inside
[04:28] <Darkside> we drive our radiometrix modules with a PWM output from the AVR, and the modules input filter cleans it up
[04:29] <Darkside> works very nicely, and gives 300mW
[04:29] <Darkside> the transmit modules cost $60 - but its probably cheaper to stick with them than to spend more time doing up a new design to use the ADF7012.
[04:30] <bgelb_> yea, in small qty new design always hard :(
[04:30] <Darkside> also, the ADF7012 needs a lot more supporting components, more construction time, etc.
[04:30] <Darkside> yep
[04:30] <Darkside> while i really would like to use the ADF7012 design, i think its going to be easier for us to stick with the radiometrix modules
[04:31] <bgelb_> $60 aint too bad
[04:32] <bgelb_> iirc the big red bee was originally 440mhz only
[04:32] <Darkside> yeah, 300mw too
[04:32] <Darkside> 300mw gets into the APRS network well
[04:32] <bgelb_> and I think they used a CC1101 from TI
[04:32] <bgelb_> i must have seen a schematic
[04:32] <bgelb_> or else I am going crazy
[04:32] <Darkside> heh
[04:32] <bgelb_> but they used the "FSK" as FM modulator trick
[04:33] <bgelb_> so I think it would work with the AD part
[04:33] <bgelb_> but never got around to trying it :(
[04:33] <Darkside> i think the next stage of development in our payloads is making it more modular
[04:33] <Darkside> i want to move the power supply offboard
[04:33] <Darkside> bgelb_: http://rfhead.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/MicroAPRS.jpg
[04:33] <Darkside> this is the transmitter
[04:34] <Darkside> well, the entire payload really
[04:34] <bgelb_> that is pretty
[04:34] <Darkside> its actually smaller than the bigredbee :-)
[04:34] <Darkside> way smaller
[04:35] <bgelb_> neat stuff
[04:35] <bgelb_> i have been away from this too long
[04:35] <bgelb_> http://www.bigredbee.com/docs/beeline/BeeLineDoc.pdf
[04:35] <bgelb_> schematic!
[04:35] <bgelb_> I'm not crazy :)
[04:38] <Darkside> no ADF on that though
[04:38] <bgelb_> yep
[04:38] <bgelb_> cc1050 is a similar type dealie tho
[04:38] <bgelb_> FSK transmitter
[04:38] <bgelb_> so, I think you could use the same trick
[04:38] <bgelb_> the CC one doesn't ccover 2 meters
[04:38] <bgelb_> what is the GPS in your transmitter
[04:39] <bgelb_> tiny!
[04:39] <Darkside> ublox 6 NEO-6Q
[04:39] <Darkside> with a sarantel helical antenna
[04:40] <SpeedEvil> Did aprs.fi stop doing the 'lines to recievers of the packet' thing?
[04:40] <SpeedEvil> Or am I misremembering?
[04:40] <Darkside> it still does it
[04:40] <Darkside> but yeah, i can get that either
[04:41] <Darkside> http://aprs.fi/?call=a%2FK6RPT-11&_s=ib
[04:41] <Darkside> it works on that page
[04:41] <SpeedEvil> So it does
[04:42] <Darkside> i now see the problem with their antenna
[04:42] <Darkside> well, its not really a prblem
[04:42] <Darkside> but anyway - its radiating more towards the horizon
[04:42] <Darkside> stations below it (relatively) aren't picking it up
[04:43] <SpeedEvil> Surely you want that?
[04:43] <SpeedEvil> oh
[04:43] <SpeedEvil> Maybe not that much
[04:43] <Darkside> a ground plane stops it radiating into space
[04:43] <SpeedEvil> Also - stations underneath with dipoles will be insensitive too
[04:43] <Darkside> you want all your energy to go towards the ground
[04:44] <SpeedEvil> Sure - but you don't want to overilluminate any areas.
[04:44] <Darkside> mm
[04:45] <Darkside> grr my beaglebones still havent shipped
[04:45] <Darkside> freaking avnet
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[04:56] <snelly> i wonder how far out the digipeaters will pick up K6RPT-11
[04:56] <snelly> poor little guy. all alone out there over the cold ocean
[04:57] <Darkside> would be nice to see the radio horizon on aprs.fi
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[05:07] Action: SpeedEvil passes Darkside a compass.
[05:11] <Darkside> SpeedEvil: hah
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[05:29] <bgelb> sorta looks like it might be descending a little bit
[05:29] <bgelb> though not that much
[05:34] <Darkside> its altitude will oscillate
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[05:45] <bgelb> what is the aprs freq in the azores
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[06:25] <Dan-K2VOL> the suspense is killing me
[06:27] <Darkside> heh
[06:27] <Darkside> its going to go out of range soon
[06:28] <Dan-K2VOL> tick tock, the aprs.fi sound says
[06:28] <Darkside> ?
[06:29] <Dan-K2VOL> you can enable sound ticks on new position updates
[06:29] <Dan-K2VOL> in the preferences
[06:29] <Dan-K2VOL> and it ticks loudly here in the quiet hackerspace, like an arrow hitting a target
[06:30] <Dan-K2VOL> .//
[06:35] <bgelb> hm
[06:35] <bgelb> rose 6000 feet in 2 mins?
[06:35] <bgelb> that doesn't seem right
[06:36] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm
[06:37] <Dan-K2VOL> that's the damn broken altitude number
[06:37] <natrium42> any ham satellites that can do aprs?
[06:37] <Dan-K2VOL> ISS
[06:37] <Dan-K2VOL> but the wrong freq
[06:37] <Dan-K2VOL> we can just ask them to change the ISS freq tho
[06:37] <Dan-K2VOL> as they zip by at 18,000 mph
[06:38] <bgelb> the thought did occur to me :)
[06:38] <natrium42> do it :D
[06:39] <bgelb> yea, its stuck
[06:39] <bgelb> last 3 posits
[06:39] <natrium42> Dan-K2VOL: can't you hack into some commercial satellite? :P
[06:39] <bgelb> all the same values
[06:40] <Dan-K2VOL> we have the technology!
[06:40] <bgelb> does this thing report gps quality?
[06:40] <Dan-K2VOL> but I am le tired
[06:40] <Dan-K2VOL> that would be nice, btu I don't think so
[06:41] <Dan-K2VOL> this number stuck in the altitude in the plains states last night
[06:41] <Upu> morning
[06:41] <Upu> wow still up
[06:41] <bgelb> weird
[06:41] <bgelb> wonder what it is in meters...
[06:41] <natrium42> hi Upu
[06:41] <Dan-K2VOL> 33337
[06:42] <bgelb> hmmmm
[06:42] <bgelb> yea, that seems suspicious
[06:42] <Dan-K2VOL> hola upu
[06:42] <Upu> morning Dan
[06:42] <Upu> we got something coming our way ?
[06:42] <Dan-K2VOL> we're tired over here in kentucky, but still watching to see if SNOX will have a challenge
[06:42] <Dan-K2VOL> it's still truckin on
[06:42] <Dan-K2VOL> http://aprs.fi/?call=k6rpt-11&mt=terrain&z=13&timerange=3600&_s=ss_call
[06:43] <Upu> how much further will it go before you loose radio contact with it ?
[06:43] <SpeedEvil> Congrats! :)
[06:43] <SpeedEvil> Awesome flight.
[06:44] <Dan-K2VOL> they should have another 100 miles or so
[06:44] <Upu> http://www.wunderground.com/wundermap/?lat=53.41670&lon=-3.00000&zoom=4&type=hyb&units=metric&rad=0&wxsn=0&svr=0&cams=0&sat=0&riv=0&mm=1&mm.mdl=GFS&mm.type=200&mm.hour=0&mm.opa=100&mm.clk=0&hur=0&fire=0&tor=0&ndfd=0&pix=0&dir=0&ads=0&tfk=0&ski=0&stormreports=0
[06:45] <Upu> its going to Spain
[06:45] <Dan-K2VOL> come on
[06:45] <SpeedEvil> How much battery has it?
[06:45] <Dan-K2VOL> :-P it's flying at 10mb
[06:45] <Upu> Well france
[06:45] <Upu> I don't that on this map
[06:46] <Upu> is it likely to come north ?
[06:46] <natrium42> action verb missing
[06:46] <SpeedEvil> Are those isovels?
[06:46] <SpeedEvil> ah
[06:47] <Dan-K2VOL> here's a map http://weather.uwyo.edu/upperair/uamap.html
[06:47] <Dan-K2VOL> do 10hPa
[06:48] <Upu> not too different
[06:49] <Dan-K2VOL> uh oh
[06:49] <Dan-K2VOL> 6 missing packets
[06:50] <Darkside> i reckon its hit the radio horizon
[06:50] <Upu> must be close
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[06:54] <bgelb> i dont think they're missing
[06:54] <bgelb> just stuck GPS
[06:54] <bgelb> still new packets coming in
[06:55] <Darkside> hmm
[06:55] <Darkside> i wonder what the voltage value means
[07:01] <Darkside> yeah it looks like the gps has carked it
[07:02] <Darkside> i wonder if the battery voltage is too low
[07:03] <bgelb> probably
[07:03] <bgelb> when K6RPT-12 went dead overnight
[07:03] <bgelb> last night
[07:03] <bgelb> it did this for a half hour or so
[07:04] <bgelb> before disappearing completely
[07:04] <Darkside> ahh damn
[07:04] <Darkside> would be nice if they had more telemetry info
[07:04] <Darkside> but theyre using a commercial aprs unit, so thats not going to happen
[07:05] <bgelb> nova scotia picking it up now!
[07:05] <bgelb> too bad the signal is borked
[07:05] <bgelb> err, GPS rather
[07:06] <bgelb> thats like a 400 mile path
[07:06] <bgelb> not bad
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[07:18] <bgelb> actually I realized when this happened to K6RPT-12, the transmitter continued the entire time
[07:18] <bgelb> just no position update for ~5 hrs
[07:18] <jcoxon> morning all
[07:18] <jcoxon> that is amazing
[07:18] <bgelb> but old stuck posit kept going
[07:18] <bgelb> morning
[07:19] <Upu> morning jcoxon
[07:19] <bgelb> so we will at least see how long it stays in radio range
[07:19] Action: jcoxon just reloaded the map
[07:19] <Upu> yeah thats one hell of a float
[07:19] <Upu> well I best go to work
[07:19] <Upu> bbl
[07:20] <jcoxon> thank goodness for aprs
[07:20] <jcoxon> makes me thing that the apex flight could have ended up anywhere
[07:20] <jcoxon> shame we couldn't keep track
[07:24] <jcoxon> could have got trans-a if launch from the east coast
[07:24] <Darkside> what woudl be good is to use HF APR
[07:24] <Darkside> HF APRS*
[07:24] <jcoxon> yeah
[07:24] <Darkside> i need to try that sometime
[07:24] Action: jcoxon is a little jealous of the achievements
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[07:59] <fsphil> so it made it to the atlantic
[08:03] <jcoxon> yeah
[08:03] <jcoxon> and onwards
[08:04] <fsphil> I'm leaving my radio on 144.39 optimistically :)
[08:04] <jcoxon> worth a try
[08:04] <jcoxon> ;-)
[08:05] <jcoxon> they should shift an igate in the azores
[08:05] <SpeedEvil> The GPS died, I think
[08:05] <bgelb> yep
[08:05] <bgelb> 3.75V battery as well
[08:06] <bgelb> though I guess the GPS thing is temp related?
[08:06] <jcoxon> bgelb, my last tests showed sometimes it isn't the gps but actually the comms between
[08:06] <bgelb> between GPS and TX?
[08:06] <jcoxon> the low temp causes crystals to drift so the timing is out
[08:07] <jcoxon> so it just can't read the serial stream
[08:07] <bgelb> oh weird
[08:07] <jcoxon> not necessarily the reason its not working
[08:07] <bgelb> thats pretty interesting
[08:07] <jcoxon> but another idea
[08:07] <Upu> so based on last know speed how long before it clears the blue bit ?
[08:07] <bgelb> seems pretty consistent behavior tho
[08:07] <jcoxon> worked much better with an external crystal
[08:07] <bgelb> K6RPT-12 "froze" in exactly the same way
[08:07] <bgelb> last night
[08:07] <bgelb> at 109373ft
[08:08] <bgelb> (33337m)
[08:08] <bgelb> what is the payload hardware?
[08:10] <Darkside> on what?
[08:18] <bgelb> k6rpt-11
[08:19] <Darkside> a bigredbee
[08:20] <Upu> is this the first time people have launched Hwoyee in the US ? They seem genuinely surprised at the performance
[08:20] <Darkside> heh
[08:20] <bgelb> does it just not degrade in UV
[08:20] <bgelb> ?
[08:21] <Upu> no idea they do have a tendancy to float though
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[08:22] <bgelb> if not for UV I think it would stay up there forever
[08:23] <x-f> until it would be shot down by a meteorite :)
[08:31] <x-f> i'm in this channel for a year now (while still building my first HAB - also a year now), and since then there have been quite a few records in altitude, now a transcontinental distance
[08:32] <x-f> wonder what's gonna be the next BIG thing
[08:32] <x-f> hopefully transatlantic flight by White Star
[08:32] <bgelb> transcontinental+transatlantic
[08:32] <bgelb> :)
[08:32] <SpeedEvil> Venus balloons.
[08:32] <SpeedEvil> Did you know you can skydive safely to the surface on venus with no chute?
[08:33] <SpeedEvil> (neglecting temperature, toxicity, ...)
[08:33] <bgelb> getting there also tricky
[08:33] <SpeedEvil> Yup
[08:33] <costyn> SpeedEvil: air density so high? or other factors as well?
[08:35] <fsphil> venus + safe shouldn't be on the same sentence :)
[08:36] <SpeedEvil> costyn: yes
[08:36] <fsphil> would the same apply to titan?
[08:36] <fsphil> low gravity + high surface pressure?
[08:37] <SpeedEvil> The surface pressure is nowhere near as high IIRC
[08:38] <fsphil> Titan 146.7 kPa, Venus 9.3 MPa
[08:38] <fsphil> slightly :)
[08:38] <x-f> eek
[08:40] <earthshine> Morning
[08:41] <SpeedEvil> Evening.
[08:41] <costyn> SpeedEvil: interesting factoid :)
[08:41] Action: SpeedEvil woke up at 7PM.
[08:41] <SpeedEvil> Meh.
[08:42] <SpeedEvil> OTOH - I got a lot done today - I have done 90% of the work for getting my bedroom insulated, and ready to put the ceiling on.
[08:42] <SpeedEvil> (well, the plasterboard)
[08:44] <costyn> SpeedEvil: but today just started, or are you in AU?
[08:45] <SpeedEvil> UK
[08:45] <SpeedEvil> My sleep cycle is broken
[08:45] <SpeedEvil> The sun is still just about coming up though.
[08:46] <costyn> SpeedEvil: ah
[08:46] <costyn> :)
[08:47] <fsphil> snowing here
[08:47] <costyn> just very very windy and rainy here
[08:48] <bgelb> hm missed 3 in a row
[08:48] <bgelb> might be the end
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[08:50] <SpeedEvil> Roof of a lean-to thingy blew off a couple of days ago - need to get the energy to put it back
[08:50] <bgelb> long live cnsp-11
[08:50] <bgelb> goodnight folks
[08:51] <SpeedEvil> Night!
[08:59] <fsphil> it was still being tracked?
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[09:02] <SpeedEvil> Until the GPS died
[09:02] <costyn> holy crap that's some impressive distance
[09:02] <SpeedEvil> 5W
[09:02] <Darkside> i think costyn is talking about the flight path :P
[09:03] <SpeedEvil> ah
[09:03] <costyn> yes
[09:03] <SpeedEvil> yes, that too
[09:03] <costyn> distance from launch point
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[09:08] <fsphil> ah, was it still transmitting, just no gps info?
[09:10] <SpeedEvil> yes
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[09:28] <fsphil> so it's still well on the US side of the atlantic
[09:28] <fsphil> doubtful it will survive today
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[09:39] <Upu> if it pops up on APRS in France I'll fall off my chair
[09:40] <Upu> on the outside chance the balloon doesn't pop, the batteries don't go flat what time should we be expecting it ?
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[09:41] <SpeedEvil> 140 miles an hour 5000 miles, 30 hours
[09:41] <SpeedEvil> So late tomorrow?
[09:43] <fsphil> the catch is it's not on 144.800 mhz
[09:43] <fsphil> no stations in europe will hear it
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[09:57] <Upu> so going to be manual ?
[09:57] <Upu> batteries won't last that long anyway
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[09:58] <fsphil> yea
[09:58] Nick change: SamSilver -> SamSilver_
[09:58] <fsphil> I had it running on 144.39 overnight
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[09:59] <fsphil> very unusual frequency, wonder what the logic is there
[10:01] <Darkside> probably part of their band plan
[10:04] <fsphil> ah yes, they're a bit stricter over there about modes and frequencies
[10:05] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/HbK3C.png
[10:05] <Darkside> this was fun
[10:05] <Darkside> WWV-15 over 2.5 hours
[10:06] <fsphil> ooch
[10:06] <Darkside> vertical span is 10Hz, horizontal is 2.5 hours
[10:06] <Darkside> you can see the receiver oscillator drifting
[10:06] <Darkside> but you can also see doppler spread
[10:06] <Darkside> also phase noise on the LO
[10:06] <fsphil> so that should be fairly constant?
[10:07] <Darkside> i dunno
[10:07] <Darkside> nothing here is really calibrated
[10:07] <eroomde> speaking of receiver oscillator drift, are there rigs which have OCXOs?
[10:08] <Darkside> yeah
[10:08] <Darkside> theres a different version of the radio that i'm using that can take an external 10MHz reference
[10:09] <eroomde> nice
[10:09] <Darkside> eroomde: what was that pizza place called
[10:09] <Darkside> strada?
[10:20] Nick change: soafee-chan -> spacekitteh
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[10:27] <eroomde> Darkside: Franco Manca
[10:27] <eroomde> there are only 2, one in Brixton Market (south london) and one on Chiswick High St that we went to (SW London)
[10:28] <eroomde> strada is a chain of italian restaurants. quite high end, but definitely a chain and quite pricey
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[10:56] <cuddykid> morning all
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[11:12] <cuddykid> is the lassen iQ update rate 1Hz?
[11:15] <eroomde> yup
[11:15] <cuddykid> :D
[11:19] <daveake> IIRC you can ask it to only send each sentence every n seconds, but otherwise yes it's 1Hz
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[12:30] <Laurenceb> anyone heard any of the balloons?
[12:33] <Laurenceb> whats the link with the trails?
[12:37] <SamSilver_> http://aprs.fi/?call=k6rpt-11,k6rpt-12,k6rpt-13,k6rpt-14
[12:37] <SamSilver_> then click 24hrs
[12:41] <costyn> This station appears to be flying at high altitude and using digipeaters, which causes serious congestion in the APRS network. The tracker should be configured to only use digipeaters when at low altitude.
[12:41] <costyn> is that just a standard disclaimer or actually a problem for the aprs network?
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[12:43] <gonzo_> btw, what's the US frequelcy for aprs?
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[12:46] <SamSilver_> 144.390
[12:46] <gonzo_> ta sam, that rings a bell
[12:47] <SamSilver_> k
[12:47] <gonzo_> if that balloonn makes it over to EU, it won't be seen on the APRS ovber here
[12:48] <Laurenceb> need to get the scanners out
[12:48] <gonzo_> though I don't have a clue what the hiipe air currents are over the atlantic
[12:48] <gonzo_> I'll put a radio on later and have a listen
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[12:49] <costyn> would putting it into the predictor not sortof show where it's heading?
[12:54] <gonzo_> I'm not the best proson to do that. I know little about the craft
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[13:15] <UpuWork> oh '12' is still alive, last update 9 mins ago
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[13:29] <costyn> how many KM has 11 done?
[13:30] <UpuWork> alot
[13:32] <UpuWork> its heading for the bay of biscay
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[13:36] <Laurenceb> or the sea
[13:38] <LazyLeopard> There's a whole lot of sea there...
[13:38] <LazyLeopard> ;)
[13:38] <UpuWork> if I was a betting man..
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[13:44] <NigelMoby> Omg thunder
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[13:55] <fsphil> yay thunder!
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[14:45] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: https://www.goodfellowusa.com/catalog/GFUS4I.php?ewd_token=QYeqQIpfLLcFr00qi4FXXAmdSh72nT&n=vZPuikoJQzmM68M39OMiukmp81zQDP
[14:49] <Dan-K2VOL> Afternoon
[14:55] <SpeedEvil> So cheap too
[14:55] <SpeedEvil> This is the high temperature steam tollerant thing?
[14:56] <fsphil> hiya Dan-K2VOL
[14:58] <Laurenceb> yes
[14:58] <Laurenceb> says 2200C there
[14:58] <Laurenceb> previously id read 1800, interesting
[14:59] <Laurenceb> looks like its yttria stabilised, probably why
[15:00] <SpeedEvil> 2000C and H2O is nasty indeed.
[15:00] <Laurenceb> at that temperature steam is mostly hydrogen and oxygen
[15:00] <Laurenceb> wonder if its possible to design a rocket so it doesnt recompine
[15:00] <Laurenceb> *combine
[15:01] <Zuph> http://www.thespacereview.com/article/1989/1
[15:02] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: the H and O?
[15:02] <Laurenceb> yes
[15:02] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Spin it at one gazillion RPM
[15:02] <SpeedEvil> You centrifuge out the O2
[15:02] <Laurenceb> lol
[15:03] <Laurenceb> need to fire up ispcalc.exe
[15:03] <Laurenceb> need to reinstall dosbox
[15:04] <SpeedEvil> Oh - higgs at ~126GeV - probably
[15:04] <SpeedEvil> I don't think the rocket gets hot enough that higgs production would be an issue though
[15:04] <jiffe98> apparently the -11 balloon made it to the atlantic
[15:05] <Dan-K2VOL> an amazing latex performance
[15:05] <Dan-K2VOL> as well as good thermal design
[15:06] <jiffe98> awesome
[15:07] <eroomde> if they had launched that from boston, it wouldn't have been far off making it across the atlantic
[15:12] <Dan-K2VOL> hrm yes
[15:19] <eroomde> faster cheaper trans-A attempts?
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[15:21] <cuddykid> written the majority of my uplink software now :D
[15:22] <cuddykid> however - I don't think the range is going to be spectacular..!
[15:22] <eroomde> oh uplinks!
[15:22] <Zuph> eroomde and/or jonsowman and/or Randomskk: Is the CUSF Predictor github up to date?
[15:22] <eroomde> tell us more
[15:23] <eroomde> Zuph: believe so
[15:23] <cuddykid> eroomde: this is only a very basic one I'm trying with 2 easyradios
[15:23] <Zuph> eroomde: Thanks.
[15:23] <cuddykid> on the ground I have got about 800m semi LoS (a few trees in the way) out of them so far
[15:23] <eroomde> Zuph: it's due for a rewrite soon though. i am part way through that but am also hopeless and finding time for it right now
[15:24] <eroomde> cuddykid: nice. what freq?
[15:24] <cuddykid> that was with one aerial not present! So hopefully, it should uplink over a couple of miles (fingers crossed)
[15:24] <cuddykid> eroomde: around the 433/434 - can't remember exactly
[15:25] <Zuph> eroomde: Oh, I definitely understand that. I was going to try to hack in floater prediction.
[15:25] <cuddykid> doesn't interfere with NTX2s though :D
[15:25] <eroomde> yes with an aerial you might be in good shape
[15:25] <eroomde> Zuph: cool yes. the new one has floating built in
[15:25] <Dan-K2VOL> let's get this damn speedball across pronto Zuph, we've sunk enough money and time into this thing that I'd rather not be beaten by an APRS beacon on a latex balloon :-)
[15:25] <eroomde> which is nice
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[15:25] <eroomde> basically i got the core working but then looked at the wind data gathering part of the program and wept
[15:25] <cuddykid> I was incredibly amazed at the range obtained with the NTX2 on my 1st flight - so even if I got 1/5 of that range with these it would work a treat
[15:26] <eroomde> it'll take weapons grade coffee to figure out what the f is going on in there
[15:26] <Zuph> eroomde: I bet. I haven't looked at it one bit, so no telling if a quick hack would be functional.
[15:26] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL: Workin' on it!
[15:26] <eroomde> that should be fine
[15:26] <cuddykid> so far - if the command "vid1" is sent - the arduino on board sends a power pulse to A570 which switches it into video mode and takes a few secs of video
[15:27] <eroomde> you only need t hack into the core c program
[15:27] <eroomde> just add a second balloon stage with an ascent rate of 0
[15:27] <eroomde> in between the first balloon stage and the parachute stage
[15:27] <cuddykid> I am wary of doing fancy stuff with CHDK though after my experience with it on 1st flight! :P
[15:29] <Zuph> eroomde: Sounds reasonable. Hopefully making it magically grab the next hunk of wind data (until prediction end) won't be too bad.
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[15:29] <eroomde> it should do it automagically
[15:29] <eroomde> the 'get_winds' code is already there
[15:29] <Zuph> I know the current predictor does weird things if the flight path exits the lat/lon delta window.
[15:30] <eroomde> i only had to tackle is as i was trying to completely re-implement it
[15:30] <eroomde> ah yes, that might actually need a hack
[15:30] <eroomde> that's a recent hack in itself, the old cusf predictor web implementation could pretty much cope
[15:30] <Zuph> heh
[15:30] <eroomde> there are some dragons in there, that's all I'm saying
[15:31] <Zuph> Oh, that's any HAB software.
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[15:34] <cuddykid> eroomde: got my FT-817 out and had a scan around - frequency of easy radio is 433.140
[15:36] <eroomde> ok
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[15:36] <eroomde> nice
[15:36] <Randomskk> Zuph: uhm
[15:36] <Randomskk> set the lat/lng deltas massive
[15:36] <Randomskk> it will be really really really really hard to make it just grab the data it needs while it floats
[15:37] <Randomskk> like, that would not be a dirty hack, that would be implementing IPC between apps that used to run sequentially
[15:37] <Randomskk> it would be horrendous
[15:37] <russss> heh
[15:37] <Zuph> heh
[15:37] <Zuph> I still haven't given any of it more than a cursory glance.
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[15:39] <russss> that sounds like a challenge to me. Oh wait, I forgot, I have no spare time.
[15:40] <Zuph> Randomskk: What's the reason for limiting the lat/lon deltas on the web app to 3/5/10?
[15:46] <eroomde> the older predictor used to grab new 2 degree by 2 degree weather data boxes as the path required using a shell script that constructed a url that downloaded a grib file
[15:46] <eroomde> that was bodgerific
[15:47] <eroomde> but the boxes were centered on the balloon, not a global-reference frame, meaning it downloaded way more boxes than needed
[15:49] <W0OTM> Dan-K2VOL: "beaten by"......is it a contest?
[15:49] <Dan-K2VOL> W0OTM it certainly is if it's never been done before
[15:50] <Dan-K2VOL> I'd say Ron won the trans-continental contest last night
[15:50] <Dan-K2VOL> of the North American continent anway, there's still a few others left
[15:52] <W0OTM> Dan-K2VOL: I would like to see how much popcorn I can eat in a 24 hour period..... but that doesn't make it a contest
[15:52] <W0OTM> Dan-K2VOL: would be AWESOME if Ron with his APRS beacon make the trip
[15:53] <W0OTM> Dan-K2VOL: Im cheering for Ron
[15:53] Action: W0OTM claps and waves for Ron
[15:53] <Dan-K2VOL> well W0OTM I'm cheering for me
[15:54] <Dan-K2VOL> being me
[15:54] <W0OTM> So if Ron makes it today, will you give up?
[15:54] <W0OTM> Dan-K2VOL: If Ron makes it, what will be your "competitive" goal?
[15:54] <Dan-K2VOL> of course we will. We'll then donate our equipment to the Balloomerang program, which is actually pushing the frontiers of amateur commercial balloon flight
[15:55] <W0OTM> Dan-K2VOL: now now now Dan, this isn't about me...
[15:55] <Dan-K2VOL> wow, I'm excited, that's unusual
[15:55] <W0OTM> Dan-K2VOL: No need to go overboard
[15:55] <Dan-K2VOL> :-P
[15:55] <Dan-K2VOL> sorry, just in a playful mood to poke back today
[15:56] <Dan-K2VOL> Seriously though
[15:56] <Dan-K2VOL> if someone else makes it, I hope they open source all their data and construction so we can all learn from it
[15:56] <Dan-K2VOL> and go further, farther and faster because of them
[15:56] <Dan-K2VOL> which is our goal with White Star
[15:56] <Randomskk> Zuph: web ui is limited to stop people causing us to download tons and tons of stuff too easily
[15:56] <Dan-K2VOL> to provide the step up for the next
[15:57] <Zuph> Randomskk: roger
[15:57] <Randomskk> Zuph: right now a python script predict.py downloads the data using pyopendap
[15:57] <Randomskk> then the data is processed into the csv format the predictor wants
[15:57] <Randomskk> then the C preditor binary is run
[15:57] <russss> do you do any caching?
[15:58] <eroomde> this is the bit that made me realise a coffee was called for ^
[15:58] <russss> heh
[15:58] <Dan-K2VOL> haha
[15:59] <Randomskk> russss: yes
[15:59] <Randomskk> but like
[15:59] <Randomskk> this:
[16:00] Action: russss is reading the code now, instead of working
[16:00] <Randomskk> https://github.com/jonsowman/cusf-standalone-predictor/blob/master/predict.py#L22-31
[16:00] <Randomskk> it monkey patches httplib's caching evaluation function to force it to http cache the response data
[16:00] <Randomskk> as the NOMADS servers set dont-cache
[16:00] <russss> ah I skipped over that bit
[16:00] <Randomskk> which is unhelpful of them
[16:01] <Randomskk> it's kinda gnarly
[16:01] <Randomskk> <3 monkey patching vital libraries
[16:01] <Randomskk> happily it just patches pydap's instance of it
[16:01] <Zuph> Randomskk: Right with you there :-p
[16:01] <Randomskk> whereis in ruby it'd patch everything and bluuurgh
[16:02] <Randomskk> but yea, eroomde is working on a sexy new predictor that's python throughout, without a C binary, and so in theory can just get the wind data as it needs it via pydap and it'd be really neat
[16:02] <russss> the data's updated at a regular time, though?
[16:02] <Randomskk> and able to do float really well
[16:02] <Randomskk> yea but new data has a new URL
[16:02] <Randomskk> so isn't cached
[16:02] <W0OTM> Dan-K2VOL: WAIT a min, how do you figure my BallooMerang project isn't "pushing the frontiers of amateur commercial balloon flight"
[16:02] <eroomde> tic toc tic toc
[16:02] <Dan-K2VOL> I wasn't being sarcastic, I was actually being sort of snide. I think you are, and I don't agree with the secrecy of your commercial endeavour
[16:03] <Dan-K2VOL> but at the forefront you are
[16:03] <W0OTM> Dan-K2VOL: "commercial endeavour" WTF?
[16:03] <russss> I'd be interested in getting involved but I don't have enough spare time to make a difference at the moment
[16:03] <W0OTM> Dan-K2VOL: What the hell you talking about?
[16:03] <Randomskk> russss: tell me all about it. ugh, jobs, etc
[16:03] <Randomskk> habitat would be done by now if a quarter of the time I spend employed I spent on habitat
[16:04] <Randomskk> along with all my other pet projects
[16:04] <eroomde> tell ME about it
[16:04] <eroomde> i just handed in my notice
[16:04] <Randomskk> alternatively s/employed/being a student/, too
[16:04] <Randomskk> eroomde: :O
[16:04] <Randomskk> how exciting
[16:04] <russss> I have a job, a house which is a construction site, london hackspace and one other big side project at the moment
[16:04] <eroomde> yes
[16:04] <Randomskk> presumably this means your free time is about to drop to zero
[16:05] <W0OTM> Dan-K2VOL: maybe your are intoxicated, which is causing you to blow crap from your mouth
[16:05] <Randomskk> keep it civil
[16:06] <WillDuckworth> eroomde - is it your new 'project' ?
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[16:08] <W0OTM> Dan-K2VOL: I love you!
[16:08] Action: W0OTM kisses Dan-K2VOL
[16:09] <NigeyS> :|
[16:09] <Dan-K2VOL> I'm sorry all, I was in a rude mood today, I didn't think about the trouble I'd stir up when provoked.
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[16:09] <Dan-K2VOL> (work is not going well today)
[16:09] <NigeyS> Dan-K2VOL, we still love ya dude :D
[16:10] <W0OTM> Dan-K2VOL: its ok, Dan, Im sry as well, I was provoking (trolling)
[16:11] <W0OTM> Dan-K2VOL: i am in a equally "playful" mood
[16:11] <Dan-K2VOL> ok, good to know :-)
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[16:14] <fsphil> And I'm ... ah n/m :)
[16:14] <fsphil> I keep checking my aprs log :)
[16:15] <fsphil> tuned to 144.39
[16:15] <costyn> fsphil: :)
[16:15] <eroomde> anything?
[16:15] <costyn> fsphil: still waiting to fall off your chair? :)
[16:15] <eroomde> you never know
[16:15] <costyn> fsphil: you'd be able to hear it even if the gps is'nt working right?
[16:15] <eroomde> so many times i've seen flights that you think are gonners
[16:15] <eroomde> only to suddenyl reignite after a few hours
[16:15] <fsphil> nothing so far
[16:16] <fsphil> I wouldn't expect it just yet though?
[16:16] <fsphil> not sure how long it would take to travel that distance
[16:16] <eroomde> 1st order guess - same again from launch to loss of signal
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[16:16] <eroomde> how long was that?
[16:17] <costyn> 10:41 < SpeedEvil> 140 miles an hour 5000 miles, 30 hours
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[16:18] <eroomde> ok
[16:18] <costyn> that was his estimate
[16:19] <Dan-K2VOL> the winds should hold if the altiude does
[16:19] <Dan-K2VOL> according the university of wyoming 10mb wind chart
[16:21] <Zuph> Yep. Looks like Spain/France is where it would make land.
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[16:22] <eroomde> anyone tried running hysplit?
[16:22] <Zuph> Hysplit doesn't go that high.
[16:23] <eroomde> shucks
[16:23] <Dan-K2VOL> is the 10mb the top of the GFS?
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[16:28] <gonzo_> what time do the predictions suggest it will be over land again?
[16:30] Action: costyn wonders that too
[16:34] <Laurenceb> im better its in the drink
[16:34] <NigeyS> so are any of those balloons still in the air ?
[16:34] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL: Yep, 1000hPa to 10hPa
[16:34] <Zuph> Cite: http://www.mmm.ucar.edu/wrf/OnLineTutorial/DATA/GFS/index.html
[16:35] <Dan-K2VOL> thx zuph
[16:35] <Dan-K2VOL> darnit then why don't they process that into hysplit. I bet you could do it yourself into the download version
[16:36] <Dan-K2VOL> that balloon was around 7mb last night
[16:38] <W0OTM> I guess is that it would be at the halfway point over the atlantic
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[16:41] <gonzo_> Thanks. I'll listen for it over the next few days.
[16:41] <Dan-K2VOL> Don't forget NG0X-2
[16:42] <Dan-K2VOL> that may be going still too and may have warmed up in the sun to start transmitting again
[16:42] <gonzo_> is that one of the other US aprs ones?
[16:42] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL: What type of balloon is NG0X-2?
[16:43] <W0OTM> Both are hyowee
[16:44] <Dan-K2VOL> yep
[16:45] <Dan-K2VOL> not sure what size mark's is, but the other is 1600g
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[17:49] <fsphil> wow, the wind outside here now is impressive
[17:50] <number10> any snow/rain/hailwith it fsphil?
[17:50] <SpeedEvil> My UPS failed halfway through the powercut.
[17:50] <SpeedEvil> (of 10 seconds)
[17:51] <gonzo_> hail just started here
[17:51] <SpeedEvil> I have the 100Ah battery I just recieved in the kitchen on charge
[17:51] <number10> where areu gonzo_?
[17:51] <gonzo_> poole dorset
[17:51] <SpeedEvil> Fife here.
[17:51] <SpeedEvil> It's calmed down a little
[17:51] <number10> on holiday in thelakes here
[17:52] <fsphil> number10, lots of rain. the odd patch of snow during the day
[17:52] <gonzo_> the noise on the windows sounds like bacon frying!
[17:52] <gonzo_> now more like pop corn !
[17:52] <SpeedEvil> Worry about the weather when you get the smells too
[17:53] <gonzo_> hehe
[17:55] <number10> you must be hungry gozo_
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[17:58] <NigeyS> oh yey just started hailing here.....again
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[18:21] Nick change: plate -> burro
[18:32] <fsphil> sleet here
[18:32] <fsphil> winds getting stronger
[18:35] <nick_> We had a little snow in Oxford today.
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[18:48] <snelly> i wonder if K6RPT-11 will reappear over the Azores
[18:49] <snelly> crossing my fingers. There seems to be decent APRS infrastructure there, but I don't know if it runs on 144.39
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[18:58] <snelly> anybody ever played with the Argent Data Radio Shield for Arduino?
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[19:12] <Laurenceb_> you have got to be kidding me
[19:12] <W0OTM> K6RPT-11 alive
[19:12] <W0OTM> WOO HOO!
[19:12] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[19:13] <W0OTM> amazing!
[19:13] <W0OTM> freakin amazing
[19:13] <snelly> no way
[19:13] <fsphil-laptop> way!
[19:13] <W0OTM> yes way
[19:13] <snelly> WOAH
[19:13] <W0OTM> 115k feet
[19:14] <Upu> what station managed to pick that up ?
[19:14] <W0OTM> CU2ARA-1
[19:14] <Zuph> jesus
[19:14] <Upu> holy shit
[19:14] <Upu> that isn't just epic
[19:14] <fsphil-laptop> this is going to make land??
[19:14] <Upu> that epic^3
[19:16] <Laurenceb_> its nightfall where it is
[19:16] <fsphil-laptop> it really really doesn't want to burst lol
[19:16] <fsphil-laptop> heading for north africa
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[19:16] <snelly> oh man
[19:17] <snelly> please let it make it to Spain/Portugal
[19:17] <snelly> and not Morocco or Western Sahara
[19:17] <snelly> anyone know the wind patterns for the eastern atlantic
[19:17] <Upu> it really should swing a little north
[19:17] <fsphil-laptop> it's too high for a prediction
[19:18] <NigeyS> ill bet its been caught in the jetstream thats giving us some rather shite weather atm
[19:19] <Upu> it needs to swing north I suspect the Algerians and Libians have other things on their mind rather than balloons
[19:19] <Laurenceb_> how do you view the receivers?
[19:19] <fsphil-laptop> how would anyone target something that's at 33km?
[19:19] <NigeyS> icbms!!
[19:20] <fsphil-laptop> anyone know what kind of batteries are in this payload?
[19:20] <Upu> whats the met ?
[19:20] <Upu> mission elapsed time
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[19:21] <Upu> oh god its heading to Tenerife
[19:21] <bgelb_> WOWOWOW
[19:21] <bgelb_> amazing!
[19:21] <Upu> yeah
[19:21] <fsphil-laptop> launched about 2011-12-12 01:00:00 UTC
[19:22] <bgelb_> better send thankyou note to the azores guys
[19:22] <fsphil-laptop> 42 hours
[19:22] <fsphil-laptop> two full days of sunlight
[19:22] <fsphil-laptop> that's a hard balloon
[19:24] <Matt_soton> makes you wonde rwhere apex alpha ended up
[19:24] <fsphil-laptop> just thinking that
[19:24] <NigeyS> prolly in some chinese paddy field..lol
[19:24] <fsphil-laptop> 10 minutes since last message
[19:26] <Laurenceb_> it was from one of the islands
[19:26] <Laurenceb_> it didnt freeze the first night so it should be running
[19:27] <Laurenceb_> i wonder how many receivers there are on the correct frequency
[19:27] <fsphil-laptop> frequency drift
[19:27] <fsphil-laptop> hmm
[19:27] <bgelb_> i emailed some guys last night
[19:27] <bgelb_> two of them replied
[19:27] <Laurenceb_> ponte delgada
[19:27] <bgelb_> cu2ara was one of them
[19:28] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[19:28] <Laurenceb_> anothe rpacket
[19:28] <Upu> http://imagebin.org/188420
[19:28] <fsphil-laptop> update
[19:28] <fsphil-laptop> phew
[19:28] <Upu> spain..
[19:28] <Upu> afk
[19:30] <fsphil-laptop> http://www.southgatearc.org/news/december2011/transatlantic_amateur_radio_balloon.htm
[19:30] <Laurenceb_> its hardly risen through the day
[19:30] <Dan-K2VOL> all I have to say is there'd better be damn good verifiable proof that these radio reports are real
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[19:30] <Laurenceb_> looks like spain
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[19:30] <Laurenceb_> but if it lasts till tomorrow now its night...
[19:31] <Laurenceb_> hope it doesnt hit the med
[19:31] <Laurenceb_> thatd be sad
[19:31] <fsphil-laptop> I think it's heading for Morocco
[19:32] <Laurenceb_> wind seems to curl a bit
[19:32] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL: Asshole balloon :-p
[19:32] <fsphil-laptop> still a long way t ogo
[19:32] <Laurenceb_> im guessing southern spain
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[19:33] <fsphil-laptop> had this been launched on the east coast ... hurry up Whitestar team :)
[19:33] <RocketBoy> wow - i don't believe it
[19:33] <Dan-K2VOL> who the hell knows at this point.
[19:33] <NigeyS> hey RocketBoy
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[19:35] <Laurenceb_> 4750miles
[19:35] <Laurenceb_> new record
[19:36] <RocketBoy> just amazing its survived another day
[19:36] <gonzo_> anyone have the aprs link handy?
[19:36] <RocketBoy> how long to sundown
[19:37] <Dan-K2VOL> it is extraordinarily amazing actually
[19:37] <RocketBoy> http://aprs.fi/?call=K6RPT-11%2CK6RPT-12%2CNG0X-2&mt=roadmap&z=6&timerange=86400&_s=ss_call
[19:37] <gonzo_> ta
[19:37] <Dan-K2VOL> why haven't any previous hwoyee balloons lasted this long
[19:37] <Laurenceb_> sundown already
[19:37] <Dan-K2VOL> ahyes, descending
[19:37] <Laurenceb_> manufacturing variability?
[19:37] <NigeyS> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/sunearth.html
[19:37] <Laurenceb_> what size?
[19:38] <Laurenceb_> its about the same float altitude as yesterday
[19:38] <Laurenceb_> looks like no envelope stretch!
[19:38] <RocketBoy> twas a 1600
[19:38] <Dan-K2VOL> anyone know anyone else in the Azores that could tune to this and record the audio for proof?
[19:38] <Dan-K2VOL> this needs to be independently verified
[19:39] <Randomskk> Dan-K2VOL: why would you believe an audio recording?
[19:39] <NigeyS> nah dan, once it gets a bit closer, can try the spanish global tuner radios though....
[19:39] <Randomskk> I can fake one up right here if you like
[19:39] <W0OTM> Dan-K2VOL: it doesnt need verified
[19:39] <Dan-K2VOL> W0OTM oh you like falsified records?
[19:39] <W0OTM> Dan-K2VOL: Really....you think its false?
[19:40] <Dan-K2VOL> No W0OTM I don't
[19:40] <W0OTM> Dan-K2VOL: ok, then...no NEED to be verified
[19:40] <Dan-K2VOL> I do believe it would be possible to fake though with only one receiving station
[19:40] <Dan-K2VOL> very easily
[19:40] <Dan-K2VOL> using aprs
[19:40] <W0OTM> Dan-K2VOL: OMG
[19:40] <Randomskk> Dan-K2VOL: what proof would convincingly satisfy you?
[19:40] <W0OTM> Dan-K2VOL: WhiteStar haterz!
[19:40] <RocketBoy> well I'd like it verified
[19:40] <Randomskk> a second station could be faked just as easil
[19:41] <Dan-K2VOL> W0OTM I'm not going to talk to you anymore today, you're not a rational person
[19:41] <Randomskk> as could audio recordings
[19:41] <Randomskk> even a recovered balloon could be a hoax if you organised it well
[19:41] <Randomskk> about the best you can do is get to within radio range and listen in on a directional antenna. maybe with a telescope
[19:41] <Dan-K2VOL> I'm not going to play the "anything's possible" game
[19:41] <W0OTM> OMG, people, why the HELL would K6RPT fake an APRS packet...
[19:42] <Randomskk> I just mean, what would count as verification?
[19:42] <Dan-K2VOL> what I'm saying is that for extraordinary claims, you must provide extraordinary evidence
[19:42] <NigeyS> how about instead of arguing, we just say if would be ideal if this could somehow be verified? :D
[19:42] <W0OTM> there are no claims....it is what it is
[19:42] <Dan-K2VOL> this claim is extremely extraordinary thing for a latex balloon to do, and involves a position reporting system that is extremely easy to inject faked positions into
[19:43] <W0OTM> I am saving this chatlog
[19:43] <Dan-K2VOL> so, it stands to reason that the extraordinary claim ought to provide more-than-normal amount of evidence
[19:44] <Dan-K2VOL> as I said before, bravo if they make it, but I don't want to be bested by a fakery
[19:45] <Dan-K2VOL> so I agree Nigeys, it would be ideal, if this were verified, before it were to be believed
[19:45] <W0OTM> headline reads, Whitestar Group calls K6RPT a conspiracy
[19:46] <NigeyS> :0 anyway shh, cmon guys, enjoy the moment, track the balloon, and sing merry xmas :)
[19:47] <RocketBoy> Well it is very unexpected - two full days worth of UV exposure - even if it is winter months
[19:47] <NigeyS> would be nice to get a sample of the balloon, and have it analysed (sp) to see just what howyee are making!
[19:48] <W0OTM> I selling my Whitestar t-shirt on eBay
[19:48] <W0OTM> Dan-K2VOL: Im kidding!
[19:48] <W0OTM> Dan-K2VOL: Love you
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[19:52] <Laurenceb_> i think it was abducted by aliens
[19:52] <W0OTM> LMAOP
[19:53] <Laurenceb_> also 911 balloon job
[19:53] <W0OTM> too funny
[19:53] <Laurenceb_> and balloons kill Kennedy
[19:53] <Laurenceb_> dont tase me bro
[19:53] <hibby> you can tase me
[19:53] <hibby> that turned out to be great fun
[19:54] <Zuph> lulz
[19:54] <bgelb_> Dan-K2VOL, FWIW CU2ARA tuned to 144.39 cause I asked him to
[19:55] <Dan-K2VOL> cool ben
[19:55] <hibby> not because i screamed like a bitch for a while though
[19:55] <Zuph> We took apart one of those cheap Chinese tasers. Lots of bare wires insulated by cut up playing cards.
[19:55] <Laurenceb_> the packets are coming from a soundsatge on mars
[19:55] <hibby> Zuph: that's hilarious
[19:55] <Laurenceb_> camera flash tazers are more fun
[19:56] <Matt_soton> -12 is still reporting :\
[19:56] <Matt_soton> has anyone picked it up?
[19:56] <Laurenceb_> so is there anyone to receive on the mainland?
[19:57] <NigeyS> if it goes towards spain, try the spanish global tuner radios
[19:57] <hibby> stac is out of action currently so I can't even try :/
[19:57] <NigeyS> what they broke now hibby ?
[19:57] <hibby> it's just not been fixed
[19:58] <NigeyS> oh god, taking a while aint it ?
[19:58] <fsphil-laptop> they must have broke it pretty good
[19:59] <Upu> hey Dan-K2VOL looks like someone is trying to beat Whitestar :/
[19:59] <Dan-K2VOL> :-) let em try!
[19:59] <hibby> oh, they screwed it, and I'm still trying to get funding for the repairs
[19:59] <hibby> this week's response "didn't we give you 20k for it last year?"
[19:59] <Dan-K2VOL> and jolly good it's well above the airways, that makes two-way comms unnecessary
[19:59] <NigeyS> grr thats annoying
[20:00] <hibby> my response: "Then you let two grad students fix it, when it wasn't broken and they hadn't read the 150 page manual i left that descibes everything from wires to software internals"
[20:00] <fsphil-laptop> this makes a UK->US balloon launch just that bit more likely
[20:00] <NigeyS> hibby, they need shooting!
[20:01] <hibby> you tell them! it's all your wasted taxes!
[20:01] Action: fsphil-laptop complains to the BBC about NigeyS :p
[20:01] <NigeyS> wah i do? :O
[20:02] <fsphil-laptop> clarkson said something similar, as a joke (not a really funny one to be fair) and about 30000 people complained
[20:02] <fsphil-laptop> most of which I'm sure didn't even see it
[20:02] <NigeyS> haha i saw
[20:02] <NigeyS> ok own up, who sent this hail storm to wales ?
[20:02] <fsphil-laptop> um
[20:02] <Upu> it was me I hate the welsh
[20:02] <NigeyS> :o
[20:02] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[20:02] <Upu> joke...
[20:03] <NigeyS> it was mr pink!
[20:03] <Upu> why is that balloon still in the air :)
[20:03] <Upu> so 55 hours battery life they reckon ?
[20:03] <NigeyS> that is a very good question upu
[20:03] <fsphil-laptop> another 10 hours to go roughly
[20:03] <Upu> 165 mph
[20:03] <nick_> hibby: where do you work?
[20:03] <fsphil-laptop> good chance this will run out before it reaches land
[20:04] <fsphil-laptop> or it could do a horus
[20:04] <Upu> don't think so
[20:04] <Upu> 1600 miles
[20:04] <Upu> its abhout that from Portugul now
[20:05] <Dan-K2VOL> Anyone know anyone else in the Azores by any chance who could try to independently verify this somehow? (and ways to to do such a verification?)
[20:05] <doughecka> If it was sitting in the jet stream would it be going faster?
[20:05] <fsphil-laptop> we need to start putting PV panels on these things
[20:05] <Upu> the 10hpA level maps put it over europe
[20:05] <Upu> just
[20:05] <Upu> do you think they Hwoyees have are made from homing latex ?
[20:05] <Dan-K2VOL> doughecka no
[20:05] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[20:06] <Upu> must go home....
[20:06] <NigeyS> lol upu
[20:06] <Dan-K2VOL> it's as fast as the jet stream up there today
[20:06] <doughecka> that seems awfully fast
[20:06] <fsphil-laptop> it's been going that speed for most of the flight
[20:06] <Dan-K2VOL> it's correct though
[20:06] <NigeyS> jet stream is meant to be >200mph thursday / friday :|
[20:06] <fsphil-laptop> there was one sample point early on at 300km/h
[20:06] <doughecka> wow
[20:06] <Dan-K2VOL> the weather data at 10mb (~102000 ft from UWYO) corroborates
[20:07] <doughecka> impressive.
[20:07] <Laurenceb_> Upu: do you have a map?
[20:08] <doughecka> can hysplit be adjusted to calculate at that altitude?
[20:08] <Dan-K2VOL> Not on the website version
[20:08] <fsphil-laptop> I don't think there's wind data for that altitude?
[20:08] <Dan-K2VOL> the hysplit custom GFS file doesn't go that I that I know of
[20:08] <Zuph> You can get 10mb data from GFS, but no higher.
[20:09] <Zuph> I think even the fortran driving hysplit would need modified to get that high.
[20:09] <fsphil-laptop> wind here is getting stronger
[20:09] <Upu> Laurenceb http://imagebin.org/188420
[20:09] <NigeyS> Dan-K2VOL, there are 2 recievers now
[20:09] <Upu> thats my wild stab in the dark based on 10hpa map
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[20:10] <fsphil-laptop> ooh it's heading north
[20:10] <fsphil-laptop> well, predicted to turn north
[20:10] <Upu> should do but those are about 86000 feet I think
[20:11] <W0OTM> NigeyS: YEAH, good, now there is NO disputing
[20:12] <Upu> lol
[20:12] <Upu> "I really think the term extremely low earth orbit (ELEO) applies to this flight."
[20:13] <NigeyS> well its not actually orbiting so ...
[20:13] <Zuph> Look out, Orbital Sciences: http://www.engadget.com/2011/12/13/paul-allen-backed-stratolauch-systems-promises-flexible-low-cos/
[20:13] <doughecka> hmm, I wonder how hard it would be to make a tracker that works 2 way
[20:14] <doughecka> aprs*
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[20:17] <cuddykid> I'm guessing K6RPT-11 and K6RPT-12 weren't released at the same time? They are way apart!
[20:17] <fsphil-laptop> guys, if this lands in the Sahara I'm not recovering it for you :p
[20:17] <cuddykid> lol fsphil-laptop
[20:18] <cuddykid> What an awesome trip this balloon has had!
[20:18] <cuddykid> looks to be almost 1/4 way around the world
[20:18] <fsphil-laptop> who'd have thought someone lives in the middle of the atlantic
[20:19] <cuddykid> does anyone have an answer for why there are long periods of no telemetry?
[20:19] <Upu> technically so do you fsphil
[20:19] <fsphil-laptop> aaaaaaah
[20:19] <Dan-K2VOL> cuddykid this is using APRS, line of sight telemetry to ground receivers
[20:19] <Dan-K2VOL> VHF 144.39 MHz
[20:20] <cuddykid> ahh ok
[20:20] <cuddykid> is it now being picked up by europe receivers?
[20:20] <cuddykid> */morrocan :P
[20:20] <Zuph> Azores. Technically europe, I guess.
[20:20] <cuddykid> nice
[20:21] <fsphil-laptop> nice island
[20:21] <doughecka> nice island house
[20:22] <fsphil-laptop> wonder where they get power and internet from
[20:22] <snelly> why doesnt aprs.fi list the stations that have heard it?
[20:22] <doughecka> the sea
[20:23] <fsphil-laptop> aah, the balloon has crossed over the plate boundary
[20:23] <snelly> azores is a neat place hope to visit someday
[20:23] <Dan-K2VOL> radio horizon should be around 460 miles from the balloon
[20:23] <doughecka> actually, probably some sort of oil based generator, either turbine or giant piston engine.
[20:24] <cuddykid> Dan-K2VOL: were you behind this launch?
[20:24] <Dan-K2VOL> I'm quite behind this launch, a few thousand miles!
[20:24] <Dan-K2VOL> :-P
[20:25] <NigeyS> lol
[20:25] <Dan-K2VOL> cuddykid look at the 3 day path
[20:25] <cuddykid> hahahaa
[20:25] <cuddykid> no, I meant
[20:25] <cuddykid> ...
[20:25] <Dan-K2VOL> it comes from California, the California Near Space Program
[20:25] <cuddykid> behind the construction :P lol
[20:25] <Dan-K2VOL> on aprs.fi
[20:25] <Dan-K2VOL> nah
[20:25] <cuddykid> ahh right!
[20:26] <snelly> i just love that all sorts of engineering schools have attempted to set these records but the guys that end up figuring it out are to swimming pool cleaners from san jose
[20:26] <Zuph> They're using an off-the-shelf APRS tracker, the BigRedBee.
[20:26] <snelly> errr two
[20:26] <Dan-K2VOL> well, actually, who figured it out are the Hwoyee rubber spraying kids!
[20:26] <Dan-K2VOL> :-P
[20:27] <snelly> who sells hwoyee in the us?
[20:27] <Dan-K2VOL> no latex balloon has ever come close to this outlying performance
[20:27] <Dan-K2VOL> scientific sales snelly
[20:27] <Zuph> Hwoyee will sell direct, as well.
[20:27] <cuddykid> Hwoyee are awesome - went you want them to float and go high :D
[20:27] <Zuph> And as much as I enjoy disagreeing with Dan, he's right: CNSP didn't really do anything out of the ordinary.
[20:27] <snelly> how did they achieve free float and not a burst?
[20:28] <Dan-K2VOL> amateurs have been trying to do latex floaters for 20 years, but the results were always hard to replicate
[20:28] <Dan-K2VOL> the hwoyees are reliably floating when you try at all to do so with them
[20:28] <fsphil-laptop> they float even when you don't want them to
[20:28] <Dan-K2VOL> the Kaymont/Kaysam/Totex ones burst much more than not
[20:28] <Zuph> snelly: Hwoyee is how. Something about their construction lends them to *not* popping relative to similar balloons from US manufacturers.
[20:28] <snelly> lol
[20:29] <Zuph> Which actually makes them bad weather balloons, for most purposes.
[20:29] <snelly> probably because they were designed to float spy gear over the US :P
[20:29] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah the weather service likes to get their radiosondes back without paying Par Avion mail
[20:30] <W0OTM> they're using an off-the-shelf APRS tracker, and widely available latex ballon...
[20:30] <Dan-K2VOL> lol snelly, you joke, but& not a bad application
[20:30] <Dan-K2VOL> the military loves balloons, but they usually want them to hang out over one location, which is tough
[20:30] <snelly> the japanese did similar in ww2
[20:31] <W0OTM> problem is, that there is no world wide standard for APRS...
[20:31] <gonzo__> surely the met want data on the way up and down
[20:31] <W0OTM> had Azores tuned to 144.39, it would be dead
[20:31] <W0OTM> NOT tuned*
[20:31] <cuddykid> is there anyway to decode aprs using FT-817 and fldigi?
[20:31] <Dan-K2VOL> snelly, there is a great US NAVY training video that details the technical workings of the actual balloons, with the real recovered balloon mechanisms, on archive.org
[20:31] <Randomskk> not fldigi
[20:31] <Randomskk> the ft817 can do it though
[20:31] <Dan-K2VOL> search for "japanese paper balloons"
[20:31] <cuddykid> cheers Randomskk :D
[20:31] <snelly> does azores normally use 144.39?
[20:31] <Zuph> snelly: Nope
[20:32] <Zuph> Usually 144.8, iirc
[20:32] <fsphil-laptop> beta fldigi can, but that doesnt help you :p
[20:32] <Dan-K2VOL> the windows APRS decoding programs are terrrrrribkl
[20:32] <snelly> aprsisce
[20:32] <snelly> 32
[20:32] <fsphil-laptop> hopefully it'll be in fldigi proper soon
[20:32] <Dan-K2VOL> if you've nver had a nightmare about a user interface, you will if you try to decode APRS with any ham Windows app :-P
[20:33] <W0OTM> I think we need to work toward a global APRS stabdard
[20:33] <fsphil-laptop> http://www.cu2ara.com/
[20:33] <fsphil-laptop> Ideally not based on APRS
[20:33] <fsphil-laptop> it's a bad system
[20:33] <Zuph> rgr that, fsphil-laptop
[20:33] <snelly> good luck with that
[20:33] <W0OTM> Balão APRS a voar sobre o Atlântico - K6RPT-11
[20:33] <fsphil-laptop> man the wind here is getting worse, I better charge some batteries
[20:34] <snelly> too much hw has been built
[20:34] <fsphil-laptop> that's no excuse :)
[20:34] <fsphil-laptop> amateurs love to tinker :)
[20:36] <fsphil-laptop> something a bit narrower band
[20:36] <fsphil-laptop> using a more efficient mode
[20:36] <Zuph> Something a bit not AX.25
[20:36] <fsphil-laptop> that too
[20:36] <fsphil-laptop> and a simpler routing system
[20:38] <Randomskk> aprs isn't all that bad
[20:38] <Randomskk> what I mean to say is
[20:38] <Zuph> No, but it could be so much better.
[20:38] <Randomskk> there are protocols in common use that are so much worse
[20:38] <Dan-K2VOL> it's horrible to parse telemetry
[20:39] <Dan-K2VOL> the aprs 'telemetry' standard is used by almost no one because it's useless in practical situations
[20:39] <RocketBoy> dan - do you mean the mic format?
[20:40] <SamSilver_> huge thunder storm
[20:40] <SamSilver_> later
[20:40] <doughecka> Dan-K2VOL: check this out: UZ7HO AX.25 Sound Modem software
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[20:40] <doughecka> seems simpler to use than agw's software
[20:41] <Dan-K2VOL> have to after work doughecka!
[20:42] <fsphil-laptop> I'm using soundmodem in linux which is pretty awful
[20:42] <doughecka> np, just thought I would share it when it was in my active memory. :) I just saw a mention about it this morning in another mailing list. its at least actively worked on, which is better than agw.
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[20:58] <W0OTM> Welcome Dan-K2VOL
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[21:02] <W0OTM> Welcome member:Dan-K2VOL
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[21:11] <Upu> is that a script ?
[21:16] <W0OTM> Upu: you talking to me?
[21:16] <Upu> yeah
[21:16] <Upu> lol
[21:16] <W0OTM> have no idea.
[21:16] <W0OTM> blame it on Colloque
[21:16] <W0OTM> Colloquy*
[21:17] <W0OTM> I just copy/paste "Welcome member:Dan-K2VOL"
[21:17] <Upu> oh
[21:17] <W0OTM> LOL, stupid app
[21:18] <W0OTM> what does V1E5 mean?
[21:19] <Upu> call sign ?
[21:19] <Upu> no idea
[21:19] <Upu> what context ?
[21:19] <W0OTM> its in the APRS packet
[21:19] <W0OTM> for K6RPT-11
[21:19] <W0OTM> is that voltage in hex?
[21:20] <Upu> not sure where do you see the packet ?
[21:20] <W0OTM> 2011-12-13 21:20:31z
[21:20] <W0OTM> 160 MPH 98° alt 110496 ft
[21:20] <W0OTM> V1E5 CNSP-11
[21:20] <W0OTM> [APBL10 via WIDE2-1,
[21:21] <Upu> oh I see
[21:21] <Upu> not sure
[21:22] <snelly> anybody play with the mx146 radio ever?
[21:24] <snelly> trying to figure out what i want to use for my priimary tracker
[21:24] <Laurenceb_> 5k miles
[21:24] <Laurenceb_> just crossed XD
[21:24] <snelly> either the mx146 and the opentracker SMT
[21:24] <snelly> or maybe the argent radio shield and my alinco dj-c5
[21:26] <Laurenceb_> so, any listeners in portugal/spain?
[21:26] <Laurenceb_> morocco?
[21:27] <Upu> Gibraltar wouldn't be a bad idea
[21:27] <Upu> but going to be 7-8 hours before its in range
[21:27] <Upu> which must be getting close to its battery life
[21:29] <RocketBoy> anyone fired up hams in madeira?
[21:29] <Dan-K2VOL> I think it was advertised for 50 hours
[21:29] <Dan-K2VOL> anyone know the battery being used specifically?
[21:29] <NigeyS> no dan but i can be 100% sure it's not a LiPo lol
[21:30] <RocketBoy> 5 x AA lithiums
[21:30] <W0OTM> NigeyS: how you figure that?
[21:30] <RocketBoy> possibly ever-ready - co i saw that mentioned on GPSL - but not sure
[21:31] <NigeyS> W0OTM, LiPos freeze at -15
[21:32] <W0OTM> NigeyS: RocketBoy has got to be kidding about 5 x AA
[21:32] <NigeyS> nah 5xaa's can last quite a while
[21:33] <RocketBoy> It was powered with 5 AA lithium batteries. - says bill brown
[21:33] <Wil5on> Darkside knows about lithium aas
[21:33] <Laurenceb_> how long has it been in the air?
[21:35] <NigeyS> 2011-12-12 01:50:45z
[21:35] <NigeyS> since round about then
[21:36] <Upu> Hwoyee should make condoms...
[21:36] <NigeyS> lol
[21:36] <W0OTM> LOL
[21:36] <Dan-K2VOL> hahaha upu
[21:36] <W0OTM> now thats GREAT!
[21:36] <Dan-K2VOL> there's an ad for them
[21:36] <Upu> wouldn't feel a thing but safety guaranteed!
[21:36] <NigeyS> maybe they do, they do have that 1 child per family limit in china dont they? ;)
[21:37] <Laurenceb_> lol thats why its so good
[21:37] <Dan-K2VOL> what we do know is that they're keeping the batteries warm
[21:37] <doughecka> whoops, pop goes the weasle
[21:37] <W0OTM> Get your 34 virgins with Hwoyee Rubber
[21:37] <doughecka> kidding, kidding, made y'all look :P
[21:37] Action: Upu stabs doughecka
[21:37] <RocketBoy> nope
[21:38] Action: fsphil-laptop restabs doughecka
[21:38] <Upu> you made me look :P
[21:38] Action: NigeyS slaps doughecka with a welsh lamb
[21:38] <doughecka> haaa
[21:38] <W0OTM> How they keeping batteries warm?
[21:38] <doughecka> ooh, I'll lake the lamb
[21:38] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[21:38] <doughecka> W0OTM: radioactive isotopes
[21:38] <W0OTM> not wrapped in BB bubble wrap
[21:38] <Upu> well I reckon it should start to turn north in about 4 hours
[21:38] <NigeyS> nothing like a bit of uranium ore to keep ya batteries warm
[21:39] <doughecka> aye
[21:39] <Laurenceb_> if theres people in protugal/spain near the coast it might just stay in range all the way
[21:42] <RocketBoy> RTG - mmmm
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[21:45] <doughecka> NigeyS: waaait... haven't all those welsh lamb been blown away?
[21:46] <NigeyS> lol almost
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[21:52] <Upu> Looks like that balloon could cause an oops
[21:52] <Upu> Geminids tonight
[21:53] <Upu> FSK441 guys doing MS , 144.390 is slap bang in the center of activity
[21:53] <Upu> just what you want when you're trying to get meteor bounce is a balloon flying between you and the meteors :/
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[21:54] <Dan-K2VOL> energizer lithium AAs will not last long (few mAh) at 40C, and the standard atmosphere temp for 107,000 ft is 42 C
[21:54] <NigeyS> might hit the balloon, ya never know ;)
[21:54] <fsphil-laptop> interplanetary cut-down
[21:54] <NigeyS> lol awsomeness!
[21:54] <NigeyS> i swear this lipo is making a hissing noise :|
[21:55] <Dan-K2VOL> or meteor-bounce aprs :-P
[21:55] <RocketBoy> So are the Azores APRS normally on 144.390 - would have thought it would have been 144.800
[21:55] <fsphil-laptop> they where told it was coming RocketBoy
[21:55] <Upu> I think they retuned
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[21:58] <Laurenceb_> does anyone have aprs on 144 in europe?
[21:58] <Raul_> Hi, anyone from Hungary here?
[21:59] <Laurenceb_> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=distance+from+san+fransisco+to+35%C2%B010.48%27+N+26%C2%B035.93%27+W
[21:59] <NigeyS> hi Raul
[22:00] <Randomskk> straw poll, guys, what would you call the number at the start of many sentences? a sequence number or a sentence ID? those are your choices ;o
[22:00] <Raul_> hello nigeys, are you from Hungary?
[22:00] <Upu> sequence number
[22:00] <Raul_> ah I see, the answer is yes
[22:01] <NigeyS> Raul_, sorry nope, U.K
[22:01] <Raul_> ok:(
[22:01] <NigeyS> Randomskk, sentence id
[22:02] <Upu> lol
[22:03] <fsphil-laptop> counter
[22:03] <NigeyS> there's always 1 :p
[22:03] <fsphil-laptop> then a 2 ...
[22:04] Action: fsphil-laptop goes for a bowl of frosties
[22:04] <jentron> http://www.novalynx.com/400-balloons.html the 800 gram balloon gives a climb rate of 400 meters/min and burst altitude of 28 km, for hydrogen. What would the effect of using helium be?
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[22:09] <RocketBoy> lower burst or slower ascent depending on fill
[22:10] <RocketBoy> the ISS will be ideally placed in about 3 passes time (5 hours)
[22:13] <Laurenceb_> http://www.st.com/internet/analog/product/251161.jsp?WT.ac=msgl_bn_sep11_spv1040
[22:13] <Laurenceb_> ^looks epic
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[22:16] <RocketBoy> is rather good - 0.3V input is amazing
[22:17] <jentron> I'm playing with JSBSim, which is a scripted flight simulator, my simulation with hydrogen gives 407 m/min, the simulation with helium 365 m/min. Both bursting around 28 km. Do those numbers sound fair?
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[22:19] <RocketBoy> what is the balloon size
[22:19] <Randomskk> jcoxon, how are you taking the news?
[22:19] <jentron> Its a 6 ft balloon, bursting size is 22 ft
[22:20] <SpeedEvil> That's 0.3V only with a supply voltage
[22:20] <RocketBoy> weight?
[22:20] <jcoxon> Randomskk, i'm super excited
[22:20] <SpeedEvil> a battery voltage, ratehr
[22:20] <jentron> 800 gram balloon, 1150 grams for payload
[22:20] <SpeedEvil> without, it's somewhat higher, in a way that doesn't seem documented
[22:20] <jcoxon> its going to be impossible to beat
[22:21] <RocketBoy> jentron: just running the numbers
[22:21] <jcoxon> Randomskk, going to be a challenge to find a new thing to do...
[22:22] <Randomskk> :P
[22:22] <fsphil-laptop> circumnavigation
[22:23] <RocketBoy> jentron: yeah look good - about 3.9 cu m of he/h2
[22:23] <RocketBoy> burst at 27.7m
[22:23] <jcoxon> looking at the map it'll pass right over Funchal
[22:24] <jcoxon> on Madeira
[22:24] <RocketBoy> asent rates 393m/min H2 and 364m/min He
[22:24] <RocketBoy> according to my calculator
[22:25] <jentron> Thanks RocketBoy. My simulation shows an acceleration as it expands.
[22:25] <jentron> ?
[22:25] <RocketBoy> much acceleration?
[22:26] <jentron> Initially 20 ft/sec. It reaches 28 ft/sec just before burst
[22:26] <RocketBoy> the normal model is constant ascent rate - but it depends in practice - i have seen slight concave and convex flights
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[22:27] <RocketBoy> also depends on the latex tensile strength
[22:29] <RocketBoy> jcoxon: its interesting that so much of this stuff happens by accident rather than design
[22:31] <Randomskk> like all the best science, right? :D
[22:31] <RocketBoy> yeah
[22:31] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, exactly
[22:31] <jcoxon> its incredible
[22:31] <jcoxon> from here it should be trackable
[22:32] <jcoxon> but the tx might drop out
[22:32] <RocketBoy> yeah - running up against the 50hour battery life methinks
[22:33] <jcoxon> yeah
[22:33] <jcoxon> i don't think this will put people off trying trans-a
[22:33] <RocketBoy> still might just stay alive for morocco
[22:34] <jcoxon> one thing to think about - how far did apex get
[22:34] <RocketBoy> well should spur someone to try trans-a from the e coast using a Hwoyee
[22:35] <jcoxon> oh yes
[22:35] <jcoxon> i'm suprised no one has launched in hte last 2 days
[22:35] <jcoxon> it makes me think that with atlas3 the terrible launch conditions contributed
[22:35] <RocketBoy> yeah - we are on the wrong side of the pond
[22:36] <jcoxon> yeah
[22:36] <RocketBoy> well - 1m/sec seems to be the AR to aim for
[22:36] <jcoxon> i think if we were the right side we'd be doing this ourselves
[22:36] <Randomskk> easily
[22:36] <RocketBoy> yep - I would have
[22:36] <jcoxon> there is always teh polar vortex...
[22:36] <Randomskk> we could try crossing all of eurasia
[22:36] <Darkside> you need to be running HF APRS for that
[22:37] <Darkside> HF APRS + some very slow data mode
[22:37] <Darkside> like, JT65 or something
[22:37] <Randomskk> probably not ARPS as it stands
[22:37] <Darkside> so you're almost guaranteed to get *something* back
[22:37] <natrium42> satellite :P
[22:37] <jcoxon> delorme rather than spot
[22:37] <jcoxon> better coverage
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[22:37] <Darkside> yeah, SPOT too :P
[22:37] <Darkside> or delorme as jcoxon says
[22:37] <Darkside> or orbcomm
[22:37] <jcoxon> its very fortunate it went close to the azores
[22:38] <doughecka> spot has no arctic coverage
[22:38] <RocketBoy> yes its a lucky flight all round
[22:38] <doughecka> I believe
[22:38] <Darkside> oh my hof
[22:38] <Darkside> oh my
[22:38] <RocketBoy> still cant get my head round the 2 day UV exposure
[22:38] <Darkside> just saw the plot
[22:38] <Darkside> thats INCREDIBLE
[22:38] <Randomskk> seriously
[22:39] <jcoxon> keep up Darkside !
[22:39] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[22:39] <Darkside> i was asleep dammit
[22:39] <Upu> lol
[22:39] <RocketBoy> must be down to the latex not being stretched as much - by the lower fill
[22:39] <jcoxon> yeah
[22:39] <jcoxon> shorter days
[22:40] <RocketBoy> and lower sun angle
[22:40] <RocketBoy> must be going through more atmophere
[22:40] <RocketBoy> even if it is very thin
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[22:41] <Darkside> this is the point at which you call every ham radio operator in africa
[22:41] <jcoxon> they have
[22:41] <RocketBoy> should be
[22:41] <Darkside> oh they have?
[22:41] <Darkside> good :P
[22:41] <Darkside> also on dx cluster?
[22:41] <Upu> it should turn north Darkside
[22:41] <jcoxon> well their are listeners ready in madiera - the next island along
[22:43] <Darkside> jcoxon: where are you getting the info from?
[22:43] <RocketBoy> looks like it should easilly have coverage all the way to the coast
[22:44] <jcoxon> gpsl list
[22:44] <Darkside> link?
[22:45] <jcoxon> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gpsl/
[22:46] <Upu> We had contacted the CT3FU on madeira island, to continue tracking the balloon
[22:46] <Upu> > in direction to Africa, let´s see if it arrive there :)
[22:48] <Darkside> wow
[22:48] <Darkside> anyway, gtg
[22:49] <Wil5on> link for plot? its not on the normal tracker
[22:49] <Randomskk> http://aprs.fi/?call=K6RPT-11&mt=roadmap&z=4&timerange=172800&_s=ss_call
[22:50] <Wil5on> whoa
[22:50] <Randomskk> seriously
[22:51] <jcoxon> go -11
[22:51] <jcoxon> shame i'm working tomorrow
[22:51] <Wil5on> thats pretty awesome
[22:51] <jcoxon> i'd go and get it
[22:51] <jcoxon> it would be worth it
[22:52] <Randomskk> seriously
[22:53] <jcoxon> sure, round trip to marrakech or casablanca
[22:53] <Randomskk> not a bad trip in its own right :D
[22:53] <jcoxon> exactly
[22:53] <jcoxon> bu
[22:53] <jcoxon> t
[22:53] <jcoxon> i'm got work till the weekend
[22:53] <Randomskk> :(
[22:53] <Randomskk> same sadly
[22:54] <Randomskk> not that I have the disposable income for a jaunt to africa anyway :P
[22:54] <jcoxon> you'd be a balloon hero
[22:54] <Upu> lol
[22:54] <NigeyS> count me out, my passport expired last month
[22:54] <RocketBoy> it looks like its turning northward in the last 10 mins - perhaps southem spain if it carries on
[22:55] <Upu> yay my prediction is coming true
[22:55] <fsphil-laptop> yay prediction
[22:55] <Upu> http://imagebin.org/188420
[22:56] <Upu> middle of spain if it keeps going
[22:56] <NigeyS> how big is that radio horizon at the mo?
[22:56] <jcoxon> 470miles approx
[22:56] <Upu> 400 mile or something
[22:56] <NigeyS> hmm, theres a radio in spain on GT that might pick it up in the next few hours, in cordova
[22:57] <bgelb_> fsphil-laptop, how do i read that chart
[22:57] <fsphil-laptop> bgelb, upu's chart?
[22:57] <bgelb_> oh,whoops
[22:58] <bgelb_> yes
[22:58] <fsphil-laptop> the red dots are the predicted patch
[22:58] <fsphil-laptop> path*
[22:58] <bgelb_> yea, i got that
[22:58] <bgelb_> so what are the solid lines
[22:58] <fsphil-laptop> pressure I think
[22:59] <NigeyS> isobars
[22:59] <fsphil-laptop> that's the word
[22:59] <bgelb_> and the wind direction is parallel to those?
[22:59] <Upu> http://imagebin.org/188441
[22:59] <Upu> try that
[22:59] <NigeyS> pass, i failed geography lol but i do remember the gither together they are the stronger the wind :D
[23:00] <fsphil-laptop> aah that's better
[23:00] <NigeyS> tighter*
[23:00] <jcoxon> close hte bars the more the pressure gradient
[23:00] <jcoxon> and the winds move faster
[23:00] <Upu> might be a bit lower on that map
[23:00] <bgelb_> stupid question but... why doesn't the wind go down the gradient
[23:00] <bgelb_> i.e. flow from higher to lower pressure
[23:01] Action: bgelb_ is exposing my meteorological ignorance
[23:01] <RocketBoy> CU2ARA is at 1000m ASL - so the radio horizon is probably quite good
[23:01] <Randomskk> 1000m ASL?! wow
[23:01] <RocketBoy> there abouts
[23:01] <RocketBoy> 3107ft
[23:02] <Randomskk> up a mountain on an island in the middle of the atlantic
[23:02] <Randomskk> what a location for a radio
[23:02] <NigeyS> cant get much better than that
[23:02] <fsphil-laptop> on vhf, not much to receive though
[23:02] <Randomskk> yea I dunno why they'd have APRS rigs
[23:02] <RocketBoy> thats where the first packets were from
[23:02] <Randomskk> though there are at least three other people in the nearby islands :P
[23:03] <Upu> inter island comms ?
[23:03] <staylo> Anyone have an altitude trace?
[23:04] <NigeyS> prolly, and isnt there a big military base on 1 of them ?
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[23:04] <G0MJW> Just back from the radio club.
[23:05] <RocketBoy> bets for a landfall position
[23:05] <jcoxon> chat about this balloon flight?
[23:05] <NigeyS> £20 .. north africa
[23:05] <jcoxon> some one should make a quick php page to log predictions
[23:05] <Upu> Lisbon
[23:05] <RocketBoy> Helva
[23:05] <Upu> Between Lisbon and Gibraltar
[23:06] <NigeyS> if theyre really unlucky, somewhere in the western sahara
[23:06] <fsphil-laptop> £20 elaborate fake by W0OTM to annoy Dan :)
[23:06] <Randomskk> davy jones' locker
[23:06] <RocketBoy> Upu - you need to be more specific
[23:06] <NigeyS> lol phil
[23:06] <Randomskk> haha fsphil-laptop I'll match that
[23:06] <Randomskk> :P
[23:06] <Upu> lol
[23:06] <Upu> Ok Lisbon
[23:06] <Upu> but I agree with you :)
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[23:07] <RocketBoy> thats called hedging your bets
[23:07] <NigeyS> i'll refine mine, £20 between Rabat and Tangier
[23:07] <G0MJW> I say Swizerland
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[23:07] <Laurenceb_> i bet we lose reception in a hundered miles or so :P
[23:08] <Laurenceb_> and cant find any receivers
[23:08] <NigeyS> lol G0MJW
[23:08] Action: Upu ponders G0MJW
[23:08] <fsphil-laptop> haha
[23:08] <Upu> I see what you did there
[23:08] <RocketBoy> humm switzerland doesn't have a cost
[23:08] <RocketBoy> coast
[23:08] <G0MJW> Switzerland....
[23:08] <Upu> thats what he did there
[23:09] <doughecka> RocketBoy: perhaps they use it to help track non-commercial fishing boats.
[23:09] <G0MJW> Are you kidding have you seen the value of the swiss franc?
[23:09] <jcoxon> Laurenceb_, they are setting some up
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[23:13] <G0MJW> From http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/satpics/latest_VIS.html Northern Spain for a landfall.
[23:14] <RocketBoy> yeah certainly turning northward
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[23:15] <RocketBoy> thats a very short cost G0MJW - are you sure you want to go for that?
[23:15] <G0MJW> No bets. I don't bet but somone already went for Portugal. I know - The Iberian Peninsula...
[23:15] <Upu> jcoxon didyou intend to send that mail to UKHAS or GPSL ?
[23:15] <jcoxon> ukhas
[23:16] <jcoxon> did it go to gpsl as well?
[23:16] <Upu> no just wondered
[23:16] <Upu> just UKHAS
[23:16] <Laurenceb_> speed is dropping
[23:16] <Laurenceb_> booo
[23:17] <RocketBoy> "British Isles and Europe" - clearly we are not part of europe any more
[23:17] <Upu> Didn't Mr Cameron sort that out last week
[23:17] <Upu> ?
[23:17] <RocketBoy> http://alerte-radiosondes.blogspot.com/
[23:17] <NigeyS> hah yeah
[23:18] <Upu> I believe he told Europe to go forth and multiply
[23:18] <RocketBoy> yeah he did
[23:18] <NigeyS> what were his words.. "we're not in the euro, we dont want the euro"
[23:18] <jcoxon> OT methinks
[23:19] <RocketBoy> hey ho - to much fun for one night - I'm off to bed
[23:19] <Laurenceb_> i think they should go fortran90 and multiply
[23:19] <NigeyS> nn Steve :)
[23:19] <Upu> yeah sounds like a plan laters all
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[23:19] <NigeyS> nn upu
[23:20] <RocketBoy> don't forget my bet is Huelva
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[23:20] Action: doughecka leaves the office and relocates to LVL1 to continue watching the Case of The Lost Balloon
[23:20] <jiffe98> what balloon is k6rpt-11 using?
[23:20] <jcoxon> 800miles to the coast
[23:20] <doughecka> a magic balloon apparently
[23:20] <NigeyS> sod it im changing my bet, Naples!
[23:20] <jcoxon> its a howyee 1600g
[23:21] <Laurenceb_> altitude is really stable now
[23:21] <jiffe98> wow thats awesome
[23:21] <fsphil-laptop> eek, our lights are flickering
[23:21] <NigeyS> just had a huge rumble of thunder here phil :|
[23:21] <fsphil-laptop> wow
[23:22] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: :)
[23:22] <jiffe98> any idea on the size of the battery on that guy?
[23:22] <fsphil-laptop> jiffe98, 1600g
[23:22] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: I have a UPS which just failed halfway through a power cut. A 7s power-cut.
[23:22] <fsphil-laptop> SpeedEvil, old battery?
[23:22] <fsphil-laptop> I've got two APC's, their cheapest model
[23:22] <Laurenceb_> oh theres someone on the other island
[23:22] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: Fortunately, I also have a 100Ah battery which arrived a few hours ago, and is now finishing charging
[23:22] <Laurenceb_> whatever its called :P
[23:22] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: possibly closing on 5years
[23:22] <NigeyS> thats not a very good ups, ive heard of rapid shutdown before, but .. hmm
[23:23] <Laurenceb_> should extend the range a lot
[23:23] <fsphil-laptop> I've got two 7Ah batteries, fully charged :)
[23:23] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: Up to a few months ago, it was doing an hour at 50W
[23:23] <fsphil-laptop> should run a light for a few hours
[23:23] <SpeedEvil> Oh - and I've turned my insaneofreezer mode on.
[23:23] <SpeedEvil> It's now down at -40C again
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[23:29] <Graham_G3VZV> .
[23:30] <daveake> Wow, so is the USA balloon about to invade Europe?
[23:31] <NigeyS> it appears so dave
[23:31] <daveake> I hope it's got a visa
[23:33] <G0MJW> How is it going to change frequency to 144.9?
[23:33] <NigeyS> it wont
[23:33] <jcoxon> ooooo
[23:33] <jcoxon> i think canary picked it up
[23:33] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[23:33] <NigeyS> which is really gonna annoy the european hams hehe
[23:33] <jcoxon> oh wait
[23:33] <SpeedEvil> Maybe someone on Madeira
[23:33] <jcoxon> still azores
[23:33] <jcoxon> oops
[23:34] <SpeedEvil> will pick it up - it looks like it's going straight for it
[23:34] <SpeedEvil> (ish)
[23:35] <G0MJW> This is a bit like drying paint. It will not reach land for what 8 hours? Time for bed I think.
[23:35] <fsphil-laptop> annoyingly I have to sleep. stupid human body :)
[23:37] <Laurenceb_> i like i palm tree and beach icon
[23:37] <Laurenceb_> http://aprs.fi/?call=CU7BC&_s=mb
[23:37] <jcoxon> eeek the email about media coverage
[23:38] <NigeyS> heh subtle wasnt it
[23:38] <staylo> Lightweights: in the old days we could watch a chain of low-resolution dots grow on an otherwise unchanging screen for hours, but I guess you're all too young to remember snake and its disappointingly derivative sequel.
[23:38] <jcoxon> oh i love snake
[23:39] <jcoxon> thats a bit weird
[23:39] <jcoxon> now that i've typed it
[23:39] <Randomskk> uh huh
[23:39] <NigeyS> snake kicks ass!
[23:39] <G0MJW> I remember snake being invented
[23:39] <staylo> Just after adam and eve?
[23:39] <G0MJW> Well before that
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[23:45] <jcoxon> night all
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[23:52] <natrium42> iraq?
[23:53] <natrium42> "I wonder if we still have any hams in iraq or there close who might could hear this in a few hours when the sun comes up ?"
[23:53] <natrium42> wtf
[23:54] <NigeyS> lol
[23:56] <Nickle> A rough calculation, if my maths is right is 210 kph
[23:57] <Nickle> roughly 7km every 2 mins
[23:58] <NigeyS> speedy...
[23:58] <natrium42> pfft, voyager 1 does twice that per second
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[00:00] --- Wed Dec 14 2011