[00:00] <jcoxon> right rolling back from arduino 1.0
[00:00] <Darkside> arduino 1.0 breaks quite a lot
[00:00] <Raul__> I had no idea what brand it is, kaymont didn't accept paypal so I turned to scientificsales
[00:01] <jcoxon> night
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[00:01] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[00:02] <Lunar_Lander> there is one man in the UK who sells balloons from both companies
[00:02] <Lunar_Lander> Steve Randall, he comes here under the name RocketBoy
[00:03] <Lunar_Lander> this is his shop
[00:03] <Lunar_Lander> http://randomsolutions.co.uk/Random_Aerospace/Welcome.html
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[00:09] <NSS-WB9SBD> We have balloons flyin'
[00:10] <Darkside> you're part of the CNSP group?
[00:10] <Darkside> i'm watching on aprs.fi
[00:11] <NSS-WB9SBD> No, just interested, watching them four eventually.
[00:15] <NSS-WB9SBD> Is anyone else here?
[00:16] <Lunar_Lander> yes+
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[00:19] <NSS-WB9SBD> I wish the list at the right was listing only who is in this room.
[00:20] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[00:20] <Lunar_Lander> did you fly balloons before?
[00:23] <NSS-WB9SBD> ME?
[00:23] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[00:23] <NSS-WB9SBD> You could say that,,
[00:23] <NSS-WB9SBD> he he he
[00:23] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[00:23] <NSS-WB9SBD> I'm one of the originators of this
[00:23] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[00:23] <NSS-WB9SBD> been doing it for almost 25 years now
[00:23] <Lunar_Lander> I am from germany and my flight count is about 0
[00:24] <Lunar_Lander> it is nice to meet the people who started it!
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[00:24] <NSS-WB9SBD> it has to be a lot harder over there. where over here we travel into different states no problem ,, but you could easily go into different countries and their different rules.
[00:25] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[00:25] <Lunar_Lander> that is true
[00:25] <NSS-WB9SBD> That would have to suck
[00:25] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[00:26] <Lunar_Lander> may I ask from what part of the US you come from?
[00:27] <NSS-WB9SBD> Wisconsin
[00:27] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[00:28] <NSS-WB9SBD> Can you watch you tube videos?
[00:28] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[00:28] <NSS-WB9SBD> BRB
[00:29] <NSS-WB9SBD> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJ0IT4ZwtSo
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[00:31] <Lunar_Lander> thank you!
[00:32] <Lunar_Lander> let me watch it
[00:32] <NSS-WB9SBD> yeah go ahead nothing much here happening.
[00:32] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[00:35] Nick change: stilldavid_ -> stilldavid
[00:35] <Lunar_Lander> hi stilldavid
[00:35] <stilldavid> ohai!
[00:35] <stilldavid> just noticed my underscore :-/
[00:35] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[00:36] <stilldavid> happy belated, not sure if I said it before
[00:36] <Lunar_Lander> thanks :)
[00:42] <Raul__> what ascent rate do you recommend for a 1500g balloon and 1800g payload?
[00:42] <Raul__> 1800g is very pessimistic, more like 1500g payload
[00:43] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[00:43] <Lunar_Lander> do you know habhub.org already?
[00:43] <Lunar_Lander> it contains all the tools we need
[00:43] <Lunar_Lander> http://habhub.org/
[00:43] <Lunar_Lander> especially this http://www.cusf.co.uk/calc/
[00:43] <Raul__> the calculator came up with 5.4 m/s, I assume that is ok
[00:43] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[00:43] <Lunar_Lander> which altitude did you enter?
[00:44] <Raul__> 32500m
[00:44] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[00:44] <Lunar_Lander> yes, 5.4 m/s is good
[00:44] <Raul__> no, that was given by the calculator
[00:44] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[00:45] <Lunar_Lander> I mean that this rate is good because there is that danger of balloons floating when you aim for even higher altitudes
[00:45] <Lunar_Lander> and have less gas and a slower rate
[00:46] <Raul__> this is what we're launching http://images.wikia.com/lego/images/b/ba/3367-1.jpg
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[00:48] <Lunar_Lander> cool
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[00:57] <NSS-WB9SBD> looks like 3 aloft and all 4 activated
[00:57] <Lunar_Lander> thanks for the video NSS-WB9SBD
[00:57] <NSS-WB9SBD> what ya think?
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[01:00] <Lunar_Lander> it was interesting
[01:00] <Lunar_Lander> especially the very long flight train to eliminate oscillations
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[01:01] <Mark_> test test JOE are you here?
[01:04] <NSS-WB9SBD> yup here again in and out surfin and watching balloons
[01:04] <Mark_> hello Joe. ok. I think that might be all she wrote for my flight......
[01:05] <Mark_> that tracker seems to have range issues.
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[01:13] <NSS-WB9SBD> what one is it?
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[01:14] <NSS-WB9SBD> hello?
[01:22] <natrium42> Mark_: sup?
[01:28] <NSS-WB9SBD> I'm here.
[01:28] <Mark_> ooops
[01:29] <Mark_> hello Gentlemen
[01:30] <NSS-WB9SBD> geetings
[01:31] <Mark_> Hey Alexei, are you ever going to fly those zero pressure floaters I sent you..... almost three years ago?
[01:32] <natrium42> not sure
[01:33] <NSS-WB9SBD> Mark, I got Carls Payload on friday. Pretty cool, i havent fired it up yet. but pretty cool.
[01:35] <Mark_> alexei: ok.
[01:35] <Mark_> Joe, U gonna test fly Carl's payload?
[01:35] <Lunar_Lander> good night!"
[01:36] <NSS-WB9SBD> Good night LL
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[01:37] <NSS-WB9SBD> We should, but I don't know if he will let us. at least his payload isn't a vital one for tracking and all that so if it messes up all we loose is some fun factor.
[01:38] <NSS-WB9SBD> It has a LOT of extra space inside, so i think we could put your tracker in it and shouldn't be a problem.
[01:59] <NSS-WB9SBD> everyone is gone?
[02:00] <SpeedEvil> Most are asleep - primarily UK/europe, and 2AM in UK
[02:09] Action: natrium42 is in Cali\
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[08:38] <Darkside> eroomde: what was that pizza place we went to
[08:44] <Darkside> eroomde: Strada?
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[08:50] <SamSilver> 12 has a real long float on the go > http://aprs.fi/?call=k6rpt-11,k6rpt-12,k6rpt-13,k6rpt-14
[08:50] <SamSilver> 900km
[08:51] <Darkside> that was probably the 3000g balloon
[08:53] <natrium42> nice
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[09:12] <WillDuckworth> Hey NigeyS - did youy get a reply from UK Space?
[09:12] <NigeyS> hey Will, nothing yet :(
[09:12] <NigeyS> which really isn't helpful
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[11:11] <Elwell> Right folks - since I know a few of you have flown em -- GoPro hero2 vs original hero - worth the extra dosh?
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[11:49] <WillDuckworth> hey cuddykid - how's it going?
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[11:50] <cuddykid> Hi WillDuckworth! Great thanks - been pursuing the glider idea recently - did some more sanding of the wings over weekend! How are you?
[11:50] <cuddykid> got to dash to a tutorial - will be back in an hr
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[13:01] <Laurenceb> ok.. i did think those wikisat guys were quite impressive
[13:01] <Laurenceb> but none of their coke rockets has actually worked
[13:02] <nick_> Coke rocket?
[13:02] <BrainDamage> they welded nozzles to coke cans
[13:02] <BrainDamage> to test rocket engines
[13:05] <Laurenceb> i dont see how they ever though it would work
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[14:12] <Raul__> Hi
[14:13] <Dan-K2VOL> morning
[14:13] <eroomde> aftnn
[14:13] <Dan-K2VOL> possibly five floaters in the air over the western united states today
[14:13] <Raul__> I'm looking for someone that has previously launched from Hungary
[14:16] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm not sure who that would be
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[14:48] <jcoxon> wow those floaters are doing well
[14:48] <Laurenceb> where?
[14:48] <jcoxon> http://aprs.fi/?call=k6rpt-11,k6rpt-12,k6rpt-13,k6rpt-14
[14:49] <jcoxon> launched from San Jose in California
[14:50] <costyn> that is quite impresive
[14:50] <jcoxon> 1600g hoywee vs a 3000g kaymont
[14:50] <NigelMoby> hey James
[14:51] <jcoxon> hey
[14:51] <Laurenceb> its in kansas now
[14:52] <Laurenceb> but will it land on a wicked witch
[14:56] <jcoxon> its very cool
[14:56] <jcoxon> i'm jealous of their space
[14:56] <costyn> little chance of splashdown and lots of aprs beacons... yes, it does make it easy for them
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[15:07] <jiffe98> hoywee ? that a balloon distributor ?
[15:09] <jcoxon> howyee
[15:09] <jcoxon> *
[15:11] <daveake> jiffe98 No, Hwoyee make balloons. People like http://www.randomengineering.co.uk/Random_Aerospace/Welcome.html (RocketBoy here) are distributors. Then us lot get our hands on them and distribute the latex across the countryside and oceans
[15:12] <SamSilver_> some of us take them real high :p
[15:12] <SamSilver_> higher than others ;)
[15:13] <jiffe98> hah, gotcha
[15:13] <SamSilver_> how you doing daveake ?
[15:13] <daveake> Coming down :)
[15:13] <SamSilver_> what is next fo your latex?
[15:13] <SamSilver_> for
[15:13] <Dan-K2VOL> costyn true, but the us amateur radio hab balloonists don't have nearly the group comeraderie that spacenear.us and this chat room has, and I think the aprs is a reason for that
[15:15] <daveake> SammSilver_ I have a 1kg Hwoyee which I'll probably launch around the end of January with a photographic payload
[15:16] <costyn> Dan-K2VOL: although I think if APRS were allowed in the UK we'd see a lot more people use it
[15:16] <Dan-K2VOL> costyn true
[15:17] <SamSilver_> i have 2000grams of long life lubber that will be going as my first
[15:18] <costyn> SamSilver_: that sounds dirty
[15:18] <SamSilver_> me still a virgin
[15:18] <costyn> SamSilver_: I'm also still a HAB virgin
[15:19] <SamSilver_> how far along till you launch costyn ?
[15:19] <SamSilver_> I see you have yourself a radio now
[15:20] <costyn> SamSilver_: well I have most of the electronics done; i think I got all the hard bits out of the way. now payload design and buying balloon and parachute
[15:21] <SamSilver_> i have balloon, para, ham lic, 4 yagis (nearly finished) and ordered today a shit load of parts, cameras X 3 are bought
[15:22] <SamSilver_> ordered parts an hour ago
[15:22] <costyn> SamSilver_: why 4 yagi's? i still need to buy one somewhere
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[15:23] <SamSilver_> i will be giving the yagis to fellow hams to help with tracking, I do not owne a radio and will not be buying one just yet
[15:24] <costyn> ah ok... I did get a radio, I would like to track other people's balloons too
[15:24] <SamSilver_> I have built a 2m long yagi for 144.800 7 element
[15:24] <costyn> nice
[15:25] <SamSilver_> and 3 x 343mhz 6 element ones
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[15:26] <SamSilver_> have you come across "Raul" costyn ?
[15:26] <costyn> SamSilver_: saw some messages scrolling by earlier, haven't talked to him no
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[15:27] <SamSilver_> costyn: no ... wait i think he was lookinh for "heina"
[15:27] <SamSilver_> looking
[15:27] <costyn> anyways, i gotta run
[15:27] <costyn> time to go home
[15:27] <costyn> sit in traffic etc :)
[15:27] <costyn> cya
[15:28] <SamSilver_> cheers
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[15:51] <Laurenceb> is there a way to plot aprs altitude?
[15:52] <Dan-K2VOL> aprs.fi doesn't seem to care about altitudes, I've been asking for them to plot it, or let you sort by it, since that site came about
[15:53] <Laurenceb> heh
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[16:12] <Laurenceb> heading straight for kanasa city
[16:12] <jcoxon> yeah
[16:12] <jcoxon> doing well during the day as well
[16:12] <Laurenceb> i dont get how its still flying in the sun
[16:12] <jcoxon> sun must be up for quite a while
[16:13] <jcoxon> they think they burst due to UV rather than solar heating
[16:13] <jcoxon> and it was launched at night
[16:13] <jcoxon> so hasn't had UV exposure until now
[16:16] <Laurenceb> lol
[16:17] <Laurenceb> heading over munitions factory
[16:26] <Laurenceb> everything is so spread out
[16:26] <Laurenceb> kansas city is huge but most of its like a park
[16:28] <Laurenceb> and its in missouri
[16:28] <Laurenceb> seems to be slowly drifitng up? going to pop?
[16:34] <Dan-K2VOL> anyone know what balloon NG0X-2 is flying?
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[17:00] <Laurenceb> http://www.die.net/earth/
[17:00] <Laurenceb> about midday now
[17:03] <jcoxon> hehe, reading the emails on the GPSL list its as if this is all new!
[17:07] <NigeyS> evening
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[17:13] <SamSilver_> I have a 2000G howyee, what would the slowest accent rate be that i could use, but still have burst?
[17:13] <SamSilver_> data seems a bit thin
[17:14] <snelly> wooo, K6RPT-11 passed just south of me
[17:14] <jcoxon> SamSilver_, exactly
[17:14] <snelly> wish they had a beacon other than APRS 144.39 so I could listen to it
[17:14] <jcoxon> would be difficult to say
[17:14] <jcoxon> snelly, :-)
[17:14] <jcoxon> a HF beacon perhaps
[17:14] <jcoxon> that would have been fun
[17:14] <snelly> yup
[17:15] <snelly> i want to find some more information on HF beacon design
[17:15] <snelly> i love those HF beacons that WB8ELK builds....with the DominoEX and Hellschreiber modes
[17:15] <jcoxon> he'll sell them i think
[17:15] <snelly> it would be fun to build them in kit form if he had that
[17:15] <SamSilver_> jcoxon: i am leaning towards a uplink cut down
[17:16] <jcoxon> snelly, that as well
[17:16] <jcoxon> i think the schematic is around
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[17:20] <jcoxon> how much time is left till the next sunset?
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[17:23] <snelly> sun sets @ approximately 1600 local time
[17:23] <snelly> maybe a little later at that altitude
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[17:27] <Dan-K2VOL> snelly he's working on making them sellable
[17:27] <Laurenceb> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/distanceresult.html?p1=283&p2=605
[17:28] <Laurenceb> holy shit
[17:28] <Dan-K2VOL> holy crap they might make it here, I'm in Louisville KY
[17:28] <Dan-K2VOL> Decent Laurenceb!
[17:28] <Laurenceb> thats a new record i think
[17:28] <Dan-K2VOL> it's moving up the record chart at arhab.org
[17:28] <Laurenceb> for latex
[17:29] <Laurenceb> yeah it a world record for latex distance
[17:30] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL: If it lasts 2 more hours, i'll land north of columbus, IN
[17:31] <Zuph> *it'll
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[17:37] <jcoxon> hey all
[17:37] <jcoxon> hey W5VSI
[17:37] <jcoxon> i sent the email
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[17:42] <jcoxon> Dan-K2VOL, it properly is going towards you
[17:42] <jcoxon> they all are really
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[17:43] <SamSilver_> jcoxon: if they carry on at this rate they will be going towards you!
[17:44] <jcoxon> thats true
[17:45] <jcoxon> would need to change aprs freq
[17:45] <jcoxon> and also turn it off :-p
[17:46] <jcoxon> does anyone know local time?
[17:47] <Zuph> 11:47
[17:47] <jcoxon> 4hrs 52mins till sunset
[17:57] <jiffe98> as it continues east sunset will get sooner
[18:00] <fsphil> oooh they're still up. was sort-of-following the mailing list
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[18:19] <cuddykid> Is everyone prepped for spark fun free day?!
[18:19] <stilldavid> not yet :(
[18:20] <cuddykid> they have so many cool things
[18:22] <stilldavid> :-D
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[18:23] <stilldavid> just be sure to take a good chunk of your morning/evening off for FD12
[18:28] <nosebleedKT> yo all
[18:28] Action: nosebleedKT watches good old Predator [1987]
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[18:29] Action: stilldavid gets to tha choppah
[18:29] <nosebleedKT> ha
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[18:50] <Upu> wow GPSL mail list explosion...
[18:51] <stilldavid> you're not kidding
[18:51] <Upu> just opened my mail and like 55 in the last 2 hours
[18:54] <Upu> Dan-K2VOL if they keep going I'll recover :)
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[18:57] <jcoxon_> does anyone have a nice link to track the floating balloons?
[18:57] <Upu> http://aprs.fi/?call=NG0X-2%2Ck6rpt-11%2Ck6rpt-12%2Ck6rpt-13%2Ck6rpt-14&mt=roadmap&z=5&timerange=86400&_s=ss_call
[18:57] <Upu> I'm zoomed in on K6RPT as thats the highest/fastest I think
[18:59] <Upu> K6RPT-12
[18:59] <eroomde> bugger me!
[18:59] <Upu> rain check..
[18:59] <eroomde> last time i looked was at work like ages ago
[18:59] <eroomde> they were just over the west coast
[19:00] <Upu> K6RPT-12 has burst
[19:01] <jcoxon_> thats the Totex i think
[19:03] <jcoxon_> the howyee might be tougher
[19:03] <Upu> which one is the Hwoyee ?
[19:06] <jcoxon_> -11
[19:09] <eroomde> they really need some altitude graphs
[19:09] <eroomde> you don't realise how useful they are until you don't have them
[19:09] <jcoxon_> :-)
[19:09] <jcoxon_> i should have forwarded the data to spacenear.us from the beginning
[19:11] <jcoxon_> Zuph, Dan-K2VOL whitestar should recover -12
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[19:13] Nick change: SAIDias -> W0OTM
[19:16] Lunar_Lander (~kevingd@p54A066E0.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[19:16] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[19:34] <Dan-K2VOL> HAHA!
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[19:35] <Dan-K2VOL> We will see about that
[19:35] <Lunar_Lander> hi Dan-K2VOL Paradoxial
[19:36] Action: jcoxon switches to follow the 2 remaining
[19:36] <Paradoxial> Hi Lunar_Lander
[19:36] <Paradoxial> How's it going?
[19:36] <Lunar_Lander> I'm good, thanks and you?
[19:36] <Dan-K2VOL> haha I'll get the Bloomington hackerspace on the jonb
[19:37] <nosebleedKT> hi Lunar_Lander
[19:37] <nosebleedKT> Lunar_Lander: got the stuff?
[19:37] <Lunar_Lander> hi nosebleedKT
[19:37] <Lunar_Lander> you mean the things for the board?
[19:37] <nosebleedKT> i mean my package
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> not yet
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> when did you send it?
[19:38] <nosebleedKT> what?
[19:38] <nosebleedKT> its been much time
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> wait
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> which one do you mean
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> the one with the Rev. G boards?
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> that I got
[19:38] <nosebleedKT> the complete board
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:38] <nosebleedKT> ah
[19:38] <nosebleedKT> :P
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> this I have received
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:38] <nosebleedKT> and the small green boarss
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[19:38] <nosebleedKT> lol
[19:38] <nosebleedKT> :P
[19:39] <Lunar_Lander> I'm only waiting for that Stepup now which I ordered friday
[19:39] <nosebleedKT> did you do anything with the main board?
[19:39] <nosebleedKT> ah ok
[19:39] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[19:40] <Laurenceb_> oooh
[19:40] <Laurenceb_> just short of 2000miles
[19:40] <Laurenceb_> missed PBH-9 just as well
[19:41] <Mark_> ng0x-2 is surging forward!
[19:41] <Lunar_Lander> which flight?
[19:41] <Dan-K2VOL> that you caviezel?
[19:41] <Mark_> HEllo Dan,
[19:42] <Mark_> Yes, it is me.
[19:42] <Dan-K2VOL> you coming over to the midwest for a visit as well?
[19:42] <Mark_> 'flyover states'
[19:42] <Lunar_Lander> Mark_: are you that ZP balloon manufacturer?
[19:42] <Laurenceb_> how do i plot two flights?
[19:42] <Dan-K2VOL> oh CNSP wouldn't agree :-P
[19:42] <Laurenceb_> on aprs.fi
[19:42] <Dan-K2VOL> http://aprs.fi/?call=NG0X-2%2Ck6rpt-11%2Ck6rpt-12%2Ck6rpt-13%2Ck6rpt-14&mt=roadmap&z=5&timerange=86400&_s=ss_call
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[19:42] <Dan-K2VOL> put commas in the track field
[19:42] <Dan-K2VOL> Kevin yes he is
[19:42] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[19:43] <Dan-K2VOL> Mark is your latex today?
[19:43] <Laurenceb_> holy shit
[19:43] <Laurenceb_> didnt see that one
[19:43] <Dan-K2VOL> quite a pack of em
[19:43] <Lunar_Lander> whoa when did they launch?
[19:43] <Dan-K2VOL> last night at sunset
[19:43] <Laurenceb_> NG0X is latex?
[19:43] <Dan-K2VOL> it's now 13:43 local where the balloons are
[19:43] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:44] <Dan-K2VOL> the farthest two
[19:44] <Laurenceb_> http://www.die.net/earth/
[19:44] <Laurenceb_> needs a few hours more
[19:44] <Dan-K2VOL> nice site laurence
[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> so we could have the first transamerica flight in some hours
[19:44] <jcoxon> quite a few more hours
[19:45] <Lunar_Lander> K6RPT is down?
[19:46] <Lunar_Lander> K6RPT-12
[19:47] <fsphil> that's impressive
[19:49] <snelly> K6RPT-11 is impressive
[19:49] <snelly> it's being heard by the Methodist Mountain digipeater 50 miles southwest of me
[19:49] <snelly> i'm in colorado and the balloon is halfway across Kansas
[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:50] <snelly> i guess there is some debate about using digis at all at that altitude
[19:50] <Laurenceb_> they made a mountain of methodists?
[19:50] <snelly> looks like the balloon is running a WIDE2-1 path
[19:51] <fsphil> haha
[19:51] <fsphil> so this is a race, how many launched?
[19:51] <Laurenceb_> sounds like they were making a mountain out of a methodisthill
[19:51] <Dan-K2VOL> haha aprs-fi doesn't like the path if you click info!
[19:51] <Dan-K2VOL> 5 I think
[19:51] <fsphil> excellent
[19:51] <fsphil> sounds like something we should arrange here
[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> does the one really fly at 233 km/h?
[19:51] <fsphil> entirely possible
[19:52] <Lunar_Lander> at 30000 m?
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[19:53] <fsphil> if you take two samples you should be able to work out the speed, just to confirm
[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:54] <fsphil> is it night time for these balloons yet?
[19:54] <snelly> no
[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> whoa I can see that -12 was at 241 km/h over Missouri
[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> do we have speed records?
[19:54] <snelly> it's about1 1400 local time
[19:55] <snelly> it should be nightime for them in about 2.5 hours
[19:55] <fsphil> oh nowhere near it
[19:55] <snelly> looks like -11 passed about 50 mi south of me
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[19:56] <fsphil> just remembered this: http://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/Earth
[19:56] <snelly> ahhh fourmilab.ch
[19:56] <snelly> that's an old school site
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> WOW
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> -12 travelled at 278 km/h
[19:57] <fsphil> it was faster at an earlier point
[19:57] <fsphil> very near 300 km/h
[19:57] <Mark_> Hi guys, I am multitasking, so unable to be on this chat all the time. Yes, I own a company that makes zero pressure floaters.
[19:58] <fsphil> there's a couple at 282 km/h
[19:58] <snelly> Mark_: you sell the balloon envelopes themselves?
[19:58] <fsphil> 285 km/h on that point
[19:58] <fsphil> hmm.. I've no way to link to the poin
[19:58] <fsphil> +t
[19:58] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[19:58] <fsphil> 287
[19:59] <fsphil> 298 km/h
[19:59] <fsphil> that is silly speed
[19:59] <fsphil> makes hadie:4 look like a sunday walk in the park
[20:00] <Paradoxial> Lunar_Lander: Same, how's your balloon coming along?
[20:00] <fsphil> someone should launch i the path of a hurricane :)
[20:00] <Lunar_Lander> quite OK, thanks
[20:00] <fsphil> *in
[20:00] <Lunar_Lander> only a bit slow because of uni
[20:01] <Dan-K2VOL> Mark_'s company Global Western made the ZP balloons for White Star and Spirit of Knoxville, the burst test at White Star a few weeks ago was one of them.
[20:01] <fsphil> sweet
[20:02] <fsphil> what's the lower limit for the size of a ZP balloon?
[20:02] <snelly> i haven't even finished my latex balloon yet and already I want a ZP
[20:02] <fsphil> lol
[20:02] <Mark_> fsphil: I don't suppose there is a lower limit. Our jet stream floaters are already tiny, less than 1000 cubic feet
[20:03] <snelly> What's Mark_'s website?
[20:03] <fsphil> thanks Mark_ - that's not bad
[20:03] <Dan-K2VOL> I've made one that worked that was 1.5m x 1.5m flat pillow
[20:03] <Mark_> we've built a number of balloons over a million cubic foot displacement, including one bigger one at 8.4 million cubic feet
[20:03] <fsphil> We've developed a fair few very small pico-payloads
[20:03] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[20:03] <fsphil> it would be neat to fly one with a tiny ZP balloon
[20:03] <Dan-K2VOL> but the smaller ones seem prone to lose gas more unpredictably than the large ones
[20:04] <fsphil> (by we I mean Darkside)
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[20:05] <fsphil> ah, the payload not heavy enough to keep the balloon the right way up?
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[20:05] <Dan-K2VOL> the White Star group's hypothesis is that the traditional appendix vent concept doesn't scale down well for multi-day flights like it does for big ZPs, as the amount of gas required to disturb equilibrium is easier to eject in general turbulence
[20:05] <Dan-K2VOL> in a smaller balloon
[20:05] <Hiena> ' evening!
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:05] <fsphil> hiya Hiena
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> and there is that thermal wake following a big balloon
[20:06] <fsphil> I sort of understand some of that Dan-K2VOL
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> Hiena: hello
[20:06] <Dan-K2VOL> i.e. the wind buffets the balloon and causes it to burp helium
[20:06] <Hiena> How things goes up?
[20:06] <fsphil> aah simple terms :)
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> yesterday a man from Romania was here and asked for Hungarian helpers
[20:06] <Dan-K2VOL> and possibly leave the appendix tube wide open to slow dispersion and dilution
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> xD Dan-K2VOL
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:06] <fsphil> Dan-K2VOL, a longer tube maybe?
[20:06] <Hiena> Lunar_Lander: Tracking job?
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> I think so
[20:07] <Dan-K2VOL> possibly fsphil, but you run the risk of twisting it shut
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> I hope that he returns here so that he can talk to you
[20:07] <fsphil> aah
[20:07] <fsphil> that's true
[20:07] <Dan-K2VOL> our plan in white star is to replace the plastic floppy tube apendix vent with a very weak springed plate valve
[20:07] <fsphil> cute
[20:08] <fsphil> so it's a very-nearly-but-not-quite-zp balloon
[20:08] <Dan-K2VOL> Mark has made us a cardboard load ring in the bottom of the balloon about 23cm in diameter
[20:08] <Dan-K2VOL> yes
[20:08] <Dan-K2VOL> actually a faintly superpressure
[20:08] <fsphil> yea. good idea
[20:08] <Dan-K2VOL> which was why we popped the ZP this month mid-air
[20:08] <SpeedEvil> 'Unusually high values of zero'
[20:09] <Dan-K2VOL> to see how strong we could make that valve plate close spring
[20:09] <Dan-K2VOL> ha
[20:09] <Mark_> looks like ng0x-2 will kick ron's -12 balloon butt in about an hour IF it stays flying!
[20:09] <Dan-K2VOL> last night I learned about 'ones complement' signed numbers, where you have a positive zero and a negative zero
[20:09] <fsphil> I've thought of something similar, jcoxon has the pinhole floaters -- latex balloons with tiny holes in the bottom that float pretty good
[20:09] <Dan-K2VOL> while teaching someone about two's complement
[20:09] <Hiena> Lunar_Lander: Guess, he could have better luck, with HAM guys. Currently i'm in the middle of some mess.
[20:10] <Dan-K2VOL> Mark_ is this latex?
[20:10] <fsphil> Dan-K2VOL, jpeg uses ones compliment. confused the heck out of me for a while :)
[20:10] <Dan-K2VOL> ahhhh
[20:10] <Dan-K2VOL> interesting, I wondered what in the real workd
[20:11] <fsphil> well it's a weird kind of ones compliment, there is no zero
[20:11] <fsphil> and a variable number of bits per number
[20:12] <Hiena> Btw, anybody up for a launch at february or march? Maybe, i could offer a proposal for a paid payload. It would be a small mascot with a few sensors in it.
[20:12] <fsphil> I was thinking of a pinhole floater with a valve -- have it plugged on ascent, then release it when a target altitude was reached
[20:13] <fsphil> to stop the gas venting on the way up in turbulance
[20:13] <fsphil> it would have to be an underfilled latex, would be very floppy in the wind
[20:13] <eroomde> yeah they're pigs
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[20:14] <fsphil> I found it hard to control the 1000g in the wind
[20:14] <eroomde> their initial ascent rate is really slow as they keep flopping about in all the vortices they're shedding
[20:14] <eroomde> it needs some skin tension for the ascent rate to sort itself out
[20:15] <Laurenceb_> one of these has got to make it till nightfall
[20:15] <fsphil> america is seriously big
[20:15] <Dan-K2VOL> depressingly so if you need to get across it by car
[20:15] <eroomde> :)
[20:16] <SpeedEvil> Or have to paint it.
[20:16] <Laurenceb_> lulwut
[20:16] <fsphil> 40 miles in any direction except south and I end up in the ocean :)
[20:16] <fsphil> well maybe a bit more west
[20:16] Action: Laurenceb_ is looking at the team wikisat videos on youtube
[20:17] <Laurenceb_> it dont get it - all their engines explode
[20:17] <Laurenceb_> why dont they realise they're doing it wrong
[20:18] <Hiena> Laurenceb_: because damn hard to find he cause, if it explodes for different reason.
[20:19] <Laurenceb_> http://www.youtube.com/user/wikisat#p/u/8/adtIR8JA5Ug
[20:19] <Laurenceb_> i mean seriously... did they expect that to work
[20:19] <Hiena> I had about fity failed jet engine, which had failure cause from mixture problem up to material wear.
[20:20] <Hiena> Khm...fifty...
[20:22] <eroomde> it's going over a place called 'Normal'
[20:22] <eroomde> i love middle america
[20:23] <Hiena> Andthese was on testbench stuffed with sensors and whatever. For example if i saw a burned combustion chamber, i had to puzzle the cause. Nozzle missaligment? Welding error? Loose seals? Lean mixture? Loose cooling coil? Too small gap between the inside and the outside chamber?
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> Hiena: yeah
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> sorry I was afk
[20:24] <SpeedEvil> You were making small jet engines?
[20:25] <snelly> anybody know if Mark_ has a website that sells the ZGs?
[20:25] <Hiena> Made. Mostly pulsejets and mixed mode jets.
[20:26] <fsphil> "You are now leaving normal"
[20:27] <Hiena> I had some trouble with the neighbourhood and too much eaparty with the local cops.
[20:27] <Hiena> +t
[20:27] <fsphil> who you gonna call?
[20:28] <SpeedEvil> Pulsejets can be quite loud.
[20:28] <SpeedEvil> :)
[20:28] <SpeedEvil> Mixed mode?
[20:28] <SpeedEvil> SCRAM/rocket? :)
[20:29] <eroomde> i was just totally on fire with university challenge
[20:30] <eroomde> i should have so been on it
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> what balloon is near Normal fsphil?
[20:31] <Hiena> SpeedEvil: Pulsejet/ramjet/rocket with electrical actuated valve.
[20:31] <SpeedEvil> Wacky.
[20:31] <SpeedEvil> Did it work?
[20:31] <SpeedEvil> The ram bit, that is
[20:31] <Hiena> Nope.
[20:31] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[20:33] <Hiena> The pulsejet <-> ramjet transition went fine but the ramjet<->rocket usually ended with molten valve and tubes.
[20:35] <Dan-K2VOL> NG0X is entering the declining afternoon solar radiation
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> which is the Latex balloon? are all the others ZP?
[20:36] <Dan-K2VOL> I think all were latex
[20:36] <Lunar_Lander> ah
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[20:42] <fsphil> if it keeps up these speeds, and floats overnight - it could reach us!
[20:43] <Lunar_Lander> yeah!
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[20:44] <Lunar_Lander> if they hold their course, they'll reach the coast in New York and New Hampshire
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[20:45] <Lunar_Lander> extrapolating even further, they'll go to France
[20:45] <SpeedEvil> Hiena: Argh - did you get positive thrust? (disco)
[20:45] <Dan-K2VOL> why it could even circle the planet!
[20:45] <Lunar_Lander> yeah!
[20:45] <fsphil> well
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[20:46] <fsphil> it *could* :)
[20:46] Action: SpeedEvil looks at the track, and thinks circle may be the wrong word.
[20:46] <fsphil> don't suppose anyone owns a net-lynx 8-port mini switch? need to know what voltage it takes incase I blow it up :)
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[20:54] <chembrow> evening all
[20:54] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[20:54] <Hiena> SpeedEvil: Do you means positive static thrust? For pulsejet it was 60-300N depends on the size of the engine, he mixture, and whatever. As ramjet it had about 1/4th of the pulsejet thrust, due the lack of the proper equipment. Static testing a ramjet requires a huge compressor to feed the engine. An average ramjet starts working around 100m/s. The clustered vacuum cleaner motors far from such specification.
[20:54] <SpeedEvil> Oh - I was assuming flight testing
[20:55] <SpeedEvil> Interesting
[20:58] number10 (4d6b9d0a@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[20:59] <Laurenceb_> sounds fun
[20:59] <Upu> don't the yanks have an IRC channel ?
[20:59] <Dan-K2VOL> no
[21:00] <Dan-K2VOL> this is the hab channel for the world, it would seem
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> with Romania being a new country since yesterday :)
[21:00] <Dan-K2VOL> most of the US activity is sort of via a few ham radio email lists, but it's nowhere near as communal as this
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> and we got australia, europe, north america
[21:01] <Dan-K2VOL> which is why I hang around here
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:01] <Hiena> SpeedEvil: Nope. I'm loony, but not crazy. Such device could be lethal in air, if it goes out of control. One thing if you got combustion chamber failure and you could put out the fire and cool down the rig, and another when it goes to fireball over your head....
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> we didn't have asia and south america yet, right?
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> but we got Africa
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> as SamSilver_ is from ZA
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:02] <Laurenceb_> NG0X is rising :(
[21:02] <Laurenceb_> think it might pop soon
[21:05] <Dan-K2VOL> sun is low, come on sun
[21:06] <Laurenceb_> its dropped a bit
[21:06] <Laurenceb_> was at 1007xx for ages
[21:06] <Dan-K2VOL> the latex is weakening and relaxing, the superpressure is taking its toll
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:08] <Laurenceb_> im guessing itll pop at 102500 or so from past flights
[21:12] <Laurenceb_> each gravity oscillation takes it a little higher
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander> Dan-K2VOL: did we have HAB activity in South America?
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[21:17] <jcoxon> 1hr 38mins till sunset
[21:17] <jcoxon> this is getting interesting
[21:19] <Laurenceb_> im not sure itll make it
[21:20] <Laurenceb_> going to be tight
[21:20] <Laurenceb_> K6RPT-11 might actually do better
[21:20] <jcoxon> Laurenceb_, those howyees are tough
[21:23] <Laurenceb_> i get more like 45minutes
[21:23] <Laurenceb_> for NG0X-2
[21:26] <Laurenceb_> http://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=sunset+in+fort+wayne+indiana&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
[21:31] <eroomde> balloon IP
[21:31] <eroomde> so you put a hdd on a balloon
[21:31] <eroomde> and float it across the states
[21:31] <eroomde> might be faster than fibre
[21:31] <jcoxon> hehe
[21:31] <Lunar_Lander> XD!
[21:31] <Lunar_Lander> they did that in South Africa
[21:31] <eroomde> 2TB, 12 hrs
[21:32] <eroomde> 166GB/hr
[21:32] <Lunar_Lander> they raced a upload versus a carrier pidgeon
[21:32] <eroomde> 3GB/min
[21:32] <Randomskk> never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon loaded with disks, right
[21:32] <eroomde> 400MBit
[21:32] <eroomde> hrm
[21:32] <eroomde> close
[21:32] <Randomskk> someone did some research on that recently w.r.t. interstellar comms
[21:32] <Randomskk> a comms laser for multiple-light-year communication vs a chunk of memory on a solar sail
[21:32] <Randomskk> like 10 orders of magnitude better to use the chunk of memory and solar sail, joules per byte
[21:33] <eroomde> i did some sums recently on that too
[21:33] <eroomde> at 10p/text, sending data from a mars rover to earth is significantly cheaper than sending data via sms to your friend
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[21:34] <Randomskk> oh yes
[21:34] <Randomskk> texts are extortionate
[21:34] <Randomskk> and roughly similar latency in some cases
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[21:38] <fsphil> hehe
[21:39] <Laurenceb_> oh UKSA cubesat isnt possible
[21:40] <Laurenceb_> wed need to be a formalised organisation
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[21:40] <Laurenceb_> not that anyone was interested anyway
[21:40] <jcoxon> same distance currently as 1/2way across the atlantic
[21:45] <Laurenceb_> hmm altitude seems a little more stable now
[21:45] <Laurenceb_> i be it pops if it gets past 102000
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[21:48] <SpeedEvil> Does anyne happen to remember the URL of that paper on time-signal propagation as dawn hit?
[21:48] <SpeedEvil> from a distant reciever
[21:49] <SpeedEvil> aha - got it - http://n1.taur.dk/dcf/
[21:51] <Laurenceb_> its dropping... odd
[21:51] <fsphil> mine did that just before burst
[21:51] <Laurenceb_> :S
[21:51] <fsphil> went up and down about three times
[21:51] <fsphil> though I didn't get a proper float
[21:52] <Laurenceb_> yeah thats gravity waves
[21:52] <Laurenceb_> NG0X-2 has dropped outside the previous range of the gravity waves
[21:52] <Laurenceb_> might be getting reduced sun already
[21:53] <jcoxon> Laurenceb_ surely at alt it'll be in sun for longer
[21:54] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[21:54] <Laurenceb_> this is weird
[21:54] <Laurenceb_> oh i know
[21:54] <Laurenceb_> its probably a dusk atmospheric wave
[21:54] <russss> ooh nice graphs
[21:54] <Laurenceb_> as it should be going up in a gravity wave now
[21:54] <russss> http://n1.taur.dk/dcf/dcf-10kpixels.png
[21:54] <Laurenceb_> altitude has gone crazy stable
[21:55] <Laurenceb_> oh that site is epic
[21:55] <Laurenceb_> i keep meaning to make a SDR to phase lock a VCXO onto the signal
[21:55] <Laurenceb_> that would be an epic project
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[21:56] <Laurenceb_> altitude has been stable to +-50feet for about 5 minutes
[21:56] <Laurenceb_> going down very slowly now.. odd
[21:57] <Laurenceb_> is this data logged? itd be cool to plot it
[21:57] <jcoxon> well it'll be on the aprs servers
[21:57] <russss> I thought there was some way of getting it out of aprs.fi
[21:58] <russss> http://aprs.fi/page/api
[21:59] <russss> ah it only gives you the last 10 messages :/
[22:00] <Laurenceb_> altitude graph would be interesting
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[22:00] <Dan-K2VOL> temperature cooling
[22:00] <Laurenceb_> i think its going to make it
[22:01] <russss> wait, there is an export. aprs.fi has so much stuff
[22:01] <Laurenceb_> problem is itll go in the ocean if it flies all night
[22:01] Action: russss fires up some matplotlib
[22:01] <Dan-K2VOL> indeed, best have your 2m 144.39 radios hooked to your packet modems tomorrow brits!
[22:01] <fsphil> attic time for me
[22:02] <russss> hah
[22:02] <fsphil> what are the chances it will come this far north (assuming all-night float)
[22:02] <Dan-K2VOL> gtg work is done!
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[22:04] <fsphil> if this had been launched on the east coast, it would already be a good part of the way here
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[22:05] <jcoxon> yeah i did some measuring
[22:05] <jcoxon> half way
[22:05] <daveake> Wow.
[22:06] <daveake> Linky for the map?
[22:06] <jcoxon> http://aprs.fi/?call=K6RPT-11%2CK6RPT-12%2CNG0X-2&mt=roadmap&z=6&timerange=86400&_s=ss_call
[22:06] <daveake> Cheers
[22:08] <jcoxon> i might be breaking habhub with the prediction i'm running
[22:08] <Laurenceb_> sunset at ground level now
[22:08] <jcoxon> stuck at 25%
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[22:08] <daveake> With all that land to aim for, it'll be quite an achievement to miss it all and land in the Atlantic :)
[22:09] Action: SpeedEvil wonders at battery life.
[22:09] <daveake> Are these under-inflated latex balloons?
[22:09] <jcoxon> daveake, yes
[22:10] <fsphil> it does put my missing of England into context :)
[22:10] <daveake> ta
[22:10] <daveake> lol
[22:10] <Upu> what time is sunset ?
[22:11] <Upu> I've got Google earth running and it can't be far off
[22:11] <daveake> Mrs Dave bought me a mug .... printed with a photo of me launching Buzz2 and a screenshot of the current alt record table :)
[22:11] <Upu> Lake Erie is going dark on Google earth
[22:11] <Upu> lol
[22:11] <Upu> nice daveake
[22:12] <daveake> It is, I'm quite chuffed :)
[22:12] <fsphil> lol
[22:12] <fsphil> so you're officially a mug now?
[22:12] <daveake> Nothing new there
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> awesome!
[22:13] <Upu> well I reckon the sun has set now
[22:13] <Laurenceb_> russs: did you manage to plot altitude data?
[22:13] <Laurenceb_> looks like it from the alttidue
[22:13] <Laurenceb_> arm spelling
[22:14] <russss> I have a graph
[22:14] <russss> but it's a bit confusing
[22:14] <russss> there's a big gap in the time
[22:14] <jcoxon> it lost gps for a bit
[22:14] <Laurenceb_> imgur
[22:15] <Laurenceb_> dropping a lot now
[22:15] <jcoxon> the question is whether it re-equalises
[22:15] <russss> I was trying to upload to dropbox but it's being silly
[22:16] <jcoxon> ohio
[22:16] <russss> http://i.imgur.com/9baxG.png
[22:16] <russss> x-axis is unix time because I always forget how to plot sensible dates
[22:18] <Laurenceb_> that drop in altitude is odd
[22:18] <Laurenceb_> maybe its the terrain under the baloon
[22:18] <russss> I'll zoom in on the end
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> that could be
[22:19] <Laurenceb_> coming off the rockies or something, then rising due to sun
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander> Laurenceb_ the one that is lagging behind?
[22:19] <jcoxon> quite far from the rockies
[22:19] <russss> unfortunately "The export tool can only be used 3 times per day." So I can't fetch anything else from aprs.fi
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander> yeah, all midwest
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander> all flat
[22:19] <russss> if anyone wants to http://aprs.fi/export/, json is nice, but bear in mind that you can only do it 3 times...
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[22:20] <jcoxon> i guess we could push it into habitat if its json
[22:20] <jcoxon> kick the habhub guys
[22:21] <Laurenceb_> below 100000
[22:26] <snelly> looks like -11 is dropping a bit
[22:26] <snelly> it just hit sunset
[22:26] <russss> this is the zoomed version: http://i.imgur.com/nVN6j.png
[22:26] <russss> technology is not cooperating with me this evening
[22:30] <jcoxon> thats interesting
[22:30] <jcoxon> so the big dip mid way through ?night time?
[22:32] <jcoxon> is there a trick to get an array to be on a few lines
[22:32] <jcoxon> as its very long
[22:33] <RocketBoy> just end the line with a comma and start on the next IIRC
[22:33] <Laurenceb_> thats weird
[22:34] <RocketBoy> fred = 2,3,4,5,6,7,8
[22:34] <Laurenceb_> brop in the middle
[22:34] <RocketBoy> 9,10,11,12;
[22:34] <Laurenceb_> python?
[22:34] <jcoxon> arduino c
[22:34] <Upu> what frequency are these balloons transmitting on ?
[22:34] <Laurenceb_> ah
[22:37] <Laurenceb_> about 20 miles ot beat PBH-9
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> hello RocketBoy
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> yesterday I told a potential new customer about you
[22:38] <RocketBoy> excellent
[22:38] <snelly> Upu: 144.39
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> his nickname is Raul and he is from Romania
[22:38] <Upu> thx snelly
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> he bought a 1500 balloon at Scientific sales
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> and then I showed him your site
[22:41] Action: Laurenceb_ cant be bothered to work out the great circle distance
[22:41] <Laurenceb_> i think its about taken the record
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[22:42] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:43] <Lunar_Lander> too bad that the APRS data points don't show the geographical position
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[22:44] <jcoxon> blowing a gale here
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> ohh
[22:46] <Laurenceb_> if its bursts in the morning itll be about 4000miles
[22:46] <Lunar_Lander> can it reach the east coast?
[22:51] <Laurenceb_> itll end up in the ocean at this rate
[22:51] <Laurenceb_> im guessing we'll lose reception
[22:58] <Upu> why do they loose tracking when the sun goes down ?
[22:59] <Laurenceb_> they dont
[22:59] <Laurenceb_> they lose over the ocean
[22:59] <Upu> ah gotcha
[22:59] <russss> quick
[22:59] <jcoxon> they lose tracking as it doesn't cope with the temp
[22:59] <jcoxon> night
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[22:59] <russss> follow it with a an autonomous boat
[23:00] <fsphil> how do you communicate with that?
[23:01] <fsphil> oh wait, balloon
[23:01] <RocketBoy> is that why there is an increasing number of missed positions?
[23:01] <russss> a series of autonomous boats
[23:01] <fsphil> a mid-atlantic aprs gate :)
[23:02] <fsphil> I'm setting up my radio for the slim chance that it might actually get this far
[23:02] <russss> need an amateur on the azores
[23:04] <russss> and bermuda
[23:04] <russss> that would give pretty decent coverage of the mid-atlantic
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[23:08] <Laurenceb_> yeah it does seem to be losing reception
[23:08] <Laurenceb_> might just be an area with few receivers
[23:09] <quemazon> Hi, everyone. I was wondering if anyone knows of some resources on long distance balloon flights.
[23:10] <quemazon> I'd like to send up a balloon in to the jet stream for example, and have it hang there for as long as possible. maybe 2 balloons, one of which is burst at the right time.
[23:11] <russss> many people do
[23:11] <russss> there aren't that many resources
[23:12] <russss> but there's plenty of knowledge in this channel
[23:12] <quemazon> I would not plan to recover the package. hundreds of miles distance would be great. I've done some searching, but did find any sites on this specific topic.
[23:14] <quemazon> so, is that a reasonable plan, then. 1 main balloon has lift = to the weight of the package, and a secondary balloon that is burst at a given height?
[23:15] <russss> generally that's probably a bit overkill. It's actually pretty easy to get a balloon to "float"
[23:16] <russss> and the less complexity the better
[23:16] <quemazon> what causes it to stop rising. does lift naturally decrease with altitude?
[23:17] <Laurenceb_> NG0X seems to have died :(
[23:17] <Lunar_Lander> damn!
[23:18] <fsphil> it's frozen again, this happened last night apparently
[23:19] <Laurenceb_> oh i see now
[23:20] <daveake> quemazon If you underfill a balloon, it will probably run out of lift before it gets to the height it would burst at
[23:20] <Laurenceb_> at least it will save the battery
[23:21] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil: so last night, the same thing happened already?
[23:21] <Lunar_Lander> how long are they aloft?
[23:22] <fsphil> Lunar_Lander, seems to have
[23:22] <quemazon> daveake I want to so stop rising when it hit a good air current. Any way of achieving that?
[23:22] <BrainDamage> add a ballast weight
[23:23] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[23:23] <BrainDamage> like an air tank that you can open with an electrovalve
[23:23] <BrainDamage> or sand
[23:23] <RocketBoy> it'll probably be well out to sea by the time the sun comes up - is it just APRS on these?
[23:24] <russss> RocketBoy: I believe so
[23:24] <RocketBoy> :-(
[23:24] <quemazon> is there a calculator out there to predict how lift decreases with altitude?
[23:25] <russss> lift only decreases with altitude if the balloon compresses the gas (lift is proportional to volume), and that's a bit difficult to calculate
[23:25] <quemazon> It would be simple enough to burst a balloon at a given height,
[23:26] <russss> most long-duration flights are zero-pressure, which means there's a small hole in the baloon which leaks gas when it gets to a certain altitude
[23:26] <russss> and that's usually combined with releasable ballast to compensate when the balloon sinks (overnight)
[23:26] <Laurenceb_> well its beaten pbh-9 distance anyway
[23:27] <quemazon> russss, so if I use a severely unfulfilled balloon, then the decrease in lift would be insignificant?
[23:27] <Laurenceb_> only by 25miles :P
[23:27] <fsphil> woo-hoo!
[23:27] <fsphil> just has to beat dan now :)
[23:27] <BrainDamage> lift is due to archimede's force, it's displacing air and having low density
[23:28] <BrainDamage> if the balloon's radius is small, lift force is smaller
[23:28] <BrainDamage> ofc you also have to take account of the gas mass stored
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[23:35] <quemazon> Thanks, for your input, everyone. gotta go.
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[23:53] <jiffe98> what kind of aprs transmitters are on these guys?
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[00:00] --- Tue Dec 13 2011