highaltitude.log.20111211

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[02:41] Nick change: sugar -> nuvo
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[02:58] <Nickolai> hello all
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[03:01] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[03:05] <Nickolai> hey Lunar_Lander have u used the lassen iq?
[03:05] Nick change: nuvo -> taro_
[03:05] <Lunar_Lander> no, sorry
[03:05] <Lunar_Lander> I got GPSbee and Venus GPS
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[03:34] Nick change: taro_ -> funk
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[09:33] <nosebleedKT> Hi!
[09:33] <SpeedEvil> hu
[09:34] <daveake> Good Moaning
[09:34] <natrium42> :O
[09:35] <mattltm> Morning all :)
[09:36] Action: SpeedEvil ponders if it's night.
[09:36] <SpeedEvil> Epically failing sleep.
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[09:39] <SamSilver> morning all
[09:52] <nosebleedKT> yo sam
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[11:49] <costyn> hello all
[11:51] <costyn> do you guys have any pages you can recommend with howto's as to connecting various conncetors onto cable? I have an Aircell 7 n-connector male which needs to go onto some aircell 7 cable
[11:51] <costyn> how the shielding etc all goes onto the plug is not immediately obvious
[11:53] <costyn> nevermind, I found something :)
[11:55] <fsphil> if it's like the n plugs I have, the shielding goes over the neck of the plug
[11:57] <costyn> i just noticed the little bag the connector comes in has a brand on it, ssb-electronic.com, their website has a nice howto http://www.ssb.de/download/7392%20N-Connector%20Aircell%207.pdf?
[12:01] <fsphil> ah neat, that's a bit different to mine
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[12:10] <eroomde> general advice - do a good job on connectors
[12:11] <eroomde> most electrical problems seem to emmanate from them
[12:13] <eroomde> in my experience of mechatroncy projects anyway
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[12:32] <SamSilver> cuddykid: whait is news with easyradio?
[12:32] <SamSilver> what
[12:33] <cuddykid> hi SamSilver - haven't played about with them for a while - however, they are all working now :D
[12:33] <SamSilver> range was an issue
[12:34] <cuddykid> yeah - I'm not going to get anywhere near the ntx2 range
[12:34] <cuddykid> I reckon about 5km max (LOS) but I'll see
[12:35] <SamSilver> 32 quad yaig would help :D
[12:35] <SamSilver> element
[12:35] <fsphil> I'm looking for a small transceiver module for short range comms, easyradio good for that?
[12:36] Nick change: SamSilver -> SamSilver_
[12:36] <SamSilver_> afk
[12:36] <cuddykid> SamSilver - haha, definitely would help!
[12:36] <cuddykid> fsphil - certainly
[12:36] <cuddykid> works straight out the box
[12:36] <fsphil> what frequency do they work on?
[12:37] <cuddykid> 434/434 Mhz
[12:37] <cuddykid> around that area
[12:37] <cuddykid> not sure exactly
[12:38] <fsphil> hopefully not near the .075 and .650 bits :) there's enough noise around here without me adding to it
[12:38] <cuddykid> ahh yeah, it's user selectable
[12:38] <cuddykid> I think 10 different frequencies
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[12:40] <fsphil> ah, even better
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[13:00] <costyn> another question, i have a power supply for my 817, but it has some strange plugs on it, which i'm not sure what they are: http://www.dil.nl/scripts/TXDEWS.dll/GetImage?ImageFileName=07.57.2303.jpg
[13:00] <Upu> just look like insulated power plugs
[13:01] <Upu> http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?SKU=1654710
[13:02] <costyn> Upu: yea I'd gotten as far as banana plugs, but wasn't sure
[13:02] <costyn> Upu: thx!
[13:03] <Upu> normal 4mm banana plugs should go in there
[13:03] <Upu> nps
[13:04] <costyn> so they don't need to be isolated per se?
[13:10] <fsphil> isolated?
[13:13] <costyn> fsphil: these I think: http://www.haje.nl/product_info.php?products_id=31475&language=en
[13:13] <costyn> banana plugs with saftefy sleeve
[13:19] <Upu> looks about right
[13:19] <fsphil> can be either
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[14:01] <SamSilver_> huge thunder storm on the way ... bbl
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[14:03] <fsphil> lucky!
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[14:19] <Laurenceb_> sup
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[17:08] <russss> err http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/717162578/lunar-rocket-for-5k
[17:15] <nosebleedKT> I have a brand new question
[17:15] <nosebleedKT> if i buy the helium in the tank
[17:15] <nosebleedKT> and keep it at home for much time
[17:15] <nosebleedKT> monhs
[17:15] <nosebleedKT> months
[17:16] <nosebleedKT> does this have any bad affect?
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[17:18] <Upu> nosebleedKT no I kept mine for 7 month
[17:18] <Upu> afk
[17:18] <nosebleedKT> oh
[17:18] <nosebleedKT> thats nice
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[19:14] <fsphil> a linux kernel crash, not seen one of those in ages
[19:15] <russss> nosebleedKT: I think technically it does leak out slowly, Helium is tricky like that
[19:15] <russss> but a couple of months should be fine
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[19:17] <nosebleedKT> i guess if i take some extra quantity i will be ok
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[20:45] <Randomskk> russss: that kickstarter...
[20:45] <Randomskk> "err" is right
[20:45] <russss> yeah.
[20:47] <Randomskk> the $6k donation reward is everything you need to send your own rocket to the moon
[20:48] <Randomskk> clear cu spaceflight a) have been nothing like ambitious enough b) are wasting our money when we could just buy this for $6k >__>
[20:48] <Randomskk> I wonder what progress they've made so far
[20:48] <Randomskk> getting to the moon on a rockoon is crazy
[20:50] <russss> well
[20:50] <russss> I'm not sure I want to dedicate much brain power to that lunacy (hah.)
[20:51] <russss> but surely $5k is hardly going to cover the helium alone
[20:51] <russss> unless they're proposing doing it with hydrogen...
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[20:53] <Randomskk> I don't think rockoons really provide any advantage to a rocket that big
[20:53] <SpeedEvil> how big is big?
[20:54] <russss> well big enough to go to the moon
[20:54] <SpeedEvil> The atmosphere is very significant up to perhaps several tons.
[20:54] <russss> what, perhaps 500g to the lunar surface
[20:54] <russss> I wonder if they've even considered a lunar descent stage
[20:55] <SpeedEvil> I considered this for my rocket.
[20:55] <russss> or perhaps you can just crash it into the moon, that would save a lot of effort.
[20:55] <Randomskk> they have to 'land' a small robot for the google xprize aiui
[20:55] <russss> yeah
[20:55] <SpeedEvil> In principle - I had a design which would get to orbit with ~250kg of first-stage
[20:56] <SpeedEvil> with a kilo payload
[20:56] <russss> I doubt they were a serious contender for that given that joke of a kickstarter pledge
[20:56] <SpeedEvil> going to ~5 tons on the first stage gets you to the moon with a kilo
[20:56] <SpeedEvil> This is assuming something silly like 7 stages though
[20:57] <russss> yeah
[21:00] <Randomskk> russss: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/717162578/lunar-rocket-for-5k/comments
[21:01] <russss> I was wondering about that
[21:03] <SpeedEvil> Taking the piss.
[21:05] <russss> also don't you need relatively close control over your delta-v to do an efficient lunar trajectory? That would be pretty impossible to do with only solids
[21:06] <Laurenceb_> http://code.google.com/p/moon-20/w/list
[21:06] <Laurenceb_> thats... ambitious
[21:06] <SpeedEvil> russss: yes
[21:06] <russss> heh
[21:07] <Laurenceb_> of course a ukhas cubesat wont be at all insane XD
[21:08] <Randomskk> http://code.google.com/p/moon-20/wiki/WikiLauncher
[21:08] <Randomskk> wow that video
[21:09] <Randomskk> they want to deploy a satellite into orbit using a rockoon
[21:10] <Laurenceb_> its not that sane
[21:12] <Laurenceb_> well orbital rockoons work
[21:12] <Laurenceb_> but their plan isnt
[21:15] <Laurenceb_> $3,727 so far.. wtf
[21:15] <Randomskk> no way will it meet the goal though
[21:16] <Laurenceb_> i think it might reach the funding goal
[21:16] <Randomskk> in 70 hours?
[21:17] <Randomskk> $22k?
[21:17] <Laurenceb_> oh theres a deadline
[21:17] <Laurenceb_> wtf
[21:17] <Randomskk> yea otherwise kickstarter would clog up with crap projects like that
[21:18] <Laurenceb_> i dont get it
[21:18] <Laurenceb_> people pledge money?
[21:18] <Randomskk> you pledge some amount
[21:18] <Randomskk> and if the goal is reached in time, the money is collected
[21:18] <Randomskk> otherwise, no cost
[21:18] <Laurenceb_> so why deadlines
[21:18] <Laurenceb_> doesnt make sense to me
[21:19] <Randomskk> well a) otherwise people would have this potential payment hanging over them for ages b) encourages people to act now c) means projects don't have to wait for years and years at which point requirements etc might all change
[21:19] <Randomskk> not having deadlines would not work very well, I think
[21:20] <Laurenceb_> i guess
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[21:57] <Raul__> Hi
[21:59] <natrium42> o/
[21:59] <Raul__> Hey!
[21:59] <natrium42> how are you?
[22:00] <Raul__> Good ,I have some questions about launching a high alt balloon
[22:00] <Raul__> I will launch a Lego space shuttle on a 1500 g balloon later this month
[22:00] <natrium42> well, you have come to the right place
[22:00] <natrium42> ok
[22:00] <natrium42> where are you based?
[22:01] <Raul__> Romania, eastern Europe
[22:01] <natrium42> aaah, we just had a launch from poland last week
[22:01] <Raul__> Dose anyone know European airtraffic rules? do I have to announce ATC? how dose it take to get a flight permit?
[22:01] <natrium42> but it landed in 300 meters inside belarus, so they couldn't get it
[22:02] <Randomskk> ugh belarus
[22:02] <Randomskk> I had such a hassle getting a visa for there
[22:02] <Randomskk> can't they just join the eu :(
[22:02] <natrium42> Randomskk: why did you even go there?
[22:02] <natrium42> i was there this summer, but didn't need a visa
[22:02] <Randomskk> taking a train through to get to russia
[22:02] <natrium42> ah
[22:03] <natrium42> wasn't there somebody else based in romania?
[22:03] <natrium42> i forgot who...
[22:03] <natrium42> Raul__: generally you get a NOTAM
[22:03] <Raul__> We will probably launch from Hungary, I called HungaroControl on friday about the project and will have an answer tomorrow about how to proceed
[22:04] <Raul__> In Romania it would have take ATLEAST 45 days to get a clearance from ROMATSA
[22:05] <Raul__> In Romania? the only space balloon I am aware of belongs to a science magazine Stiinta & Tehnica
[22:05] <natrium42> yeah, in canada it also takes over a month
[22:05] <SpeedEvil> UK too, and ireland
[22:05] <Raul__> We would REALLY want to launch this month
[22:05] <natrium42> Raul__: let me search logs
[22:05] <SpeedEvil> Raul__: I suggest a boat in international waters
[22:06] <Raul__> a bit over my budget :)
[22:06] <natrium42> what about http://www.southgatearc.org/news/october2011/romanian_high_altitude_balloon_launch.htm
[22:06] <natrium42> ?
[22:06] <Raul__> yes, that's the magazine!
[22:07] <Raul__> Everything is payed for and should arrive this comming week
[22:08] <Raul__> Some advice from keeping a GoPro Hero from fogging up?
[22:08] <natrium42> don't use a case
[22:09] <Raul__> Ok, I saw that too in the Project Edgar video, but thank you
[22:09] <Raul__> special lense coatings?
[22:10] <Laurenceb_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqU_AQj6S6s&feature=related
[22:10] <Laurenceb_> pressure vessel fail
[22:10] <Laurenceb_> probably gives more thrust in the -ive direction
[22:11] <natrium42> Raul__: nah, just leave it open to the air so that it doesn't fog up
[22:12] <Raul__> Do I have any chance of getting a flight clearance this month?
[22:12] <natrium42> depends on your country :P
[22:13] <Raul__> For Hungary I mean, has someone launched from there before?
[22:13] <natrium42> yeah
[22:14] <natrium42> there was a member of this channel called Hiena
[22:14] <natrium42> but i haven't seen him lately
[22:14] <Raul__> Did he mention the ATC clearance?
[22:14] <natrium42> looking at logs
[22:14] <Raul__> What are the legal implications of launching without a clearance?
[22:15] <natrium42> oooh, so he was here yesterday
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[22:22] <Raul__> How long should the strings attached to the balloon and parachute be?
[22:23] <SpeedEvil> Quite long - 20m+10m, for example isn't ridiculous.
[22:24] <SpeedEvil> The shorter they are, the more risk of the balloon debris hitting the chute.
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[22:24] <Raul__> Has anyone launched a and videotaped a LEGO shuttle into space before?
[22:24] <SpeedEvil> and different, because you don't want the balloon remnants don't hit the payload when hanging off the parachute
[22:24] <SpeedEvil> Seems unlikely
[22:24] <natrium42> also long string is better because of pendulum effects
[22:25] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[22:25] <Laurenceb_> http://www.youtube.com/user/wikisat#p/u/2/va5ewYLqRIk
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[22:25] <Laurenceb_> ok im actually impressed
[22:25] <gonzo_> we found that a vented chute stopped a lot of that effect, when doing rockets
[22:25] <SpeedEvil> a long pendulumn with the chute halfway up may act to damp some of the swings you can get on ascent otherwise
[22:25] <Raul__> Thank you guys!
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[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[22:26] <Raul__> What are your toughts about RC LiPo's on the payload?
[22:26] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: totally needs sponsorship from coke
[22:26] <SpeedEvil> Raul__: I have doubts.
[22:27] <Raul__> me too
[22:27] <SpeedEvil> Raul__: Lipos can swell under some conditions.
[22:27] <natrium42> Lunar_Lander: do you know anybody based in romania?
[22:27] <Lunar_Lander> no, sorry
[22:27] <SpeedEvil> Raul__: Exposing them to ~0psi
[22:27] <Lunar_Lander> why are you asking natrium42?
[22:27] <Raul__> or Hungary for that matter
[22:27] <SpeedEvil> Raul__: ...
[22:27] <natrium42> Lunar_Lander: Raul__ is looking to launch there
[22:27] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> I know a person in Ukraine
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> but not Romania :(
[22:28] <Raul__> I will have a SPOT GPS and also a TK102 module
[22:28] <natrium42> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAR_111
[22:28] <natrium42> pretty cool stuff
[22:28] <natrium42> didn't know romania was doing that
[22:28] <Raul__> I know them, meet them, sponsored me
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> sounds cool Raul__
[22:28] <SpeedEvil> I would comment about SPOT, but I suspect natrium42 will. :)
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> and welcome aboard
[22:28] <natrium42> Raul__: ooh, awesome
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[22:29] <Raul__> Their not that awsome I have to say
[22:29] <natrium42> SPOT is fine to find landing position
[22:29] <natrium42> why?
[22:29] <Raul__> one HD GoPro and Kodak Zx1
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[22:30] <Raul__> from personal experience, they are ok, but not great
[22:30] <Laurenceb_> http://www.youtube.com/user/wikisat#p/u/17/YLsFsxZBQAk
[22:30] <Laurenceb_> i like the graphics
[22:30] <Raul__> Also a Lego 3367 shuttle hanging by 4 fishing wires below the craft with the camera mounted on a pole in front of it
[22:31] <Matt_soton> ive known a SPOT to be a few 100m out before
[22:32] <Raul__> If I fly without a flight clearance, what do I risk legaly?
[22:32] <natrium42> Matt_soton: but you can usually average the coordinates
[22:33] <Matt_soton> yea im sure you can, this isnt quite first hand experience mind you
[22:34] <Matt_soton> i think it was on the basis of one coordinate, as thats all they had (update every 7min or something?)
[22:35] <natrium42> ah, i see
[22:36] <Lunar_Lander> Raul__: I won't do that
[22:36] <Lunar_Lander> an unauthorized flight that ends in disaster could compromise the world ballooning efforts
[22:37] <Raul__> Ok, your right and my sponsor dosen't like the idea either
[22:37] <Raul__> How much would 5 m^3 of He be in your countries?
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> a cylinder of He which has 10 m^3 is about 200 euro (with rent included) in germany
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[22:40] <Raul__> What glues do you recommend that resist extream cold?
[22:42] <Lunar_Lander> for the payload box for instance?
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[22:43] <Raul__> What happened?
[22:43] <hibby> it looks like you closed the webchat window
[22:44] <Raul__> I got some message, I was asking about cold resistant glues and suggestions on what to use
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[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> Raul__: still there?
[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> hello jcoxon
[23:02] <Raul__> yes
[23:03] <Lunar_Lander> what do you want your balloon to do?
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[23:11] <Raul__> Carrie a lego shuttle model 3367 into space
[23:11] <Raul__> I bought a 1500g balloon
[23:11] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:11] <Lunar_Lander> sounds good
[23:14] <Raul__> if there is anyone from Hungary here please let me know
[23:16] <Lunar_Lander> I think there is one person
[23:16] <Lunar_Lander> at least there was a person who said he is from htere
[23:16] <Lunar_Lander> there
[23:16] <Lunar_Lander> but that was weeks ago
[23:17] <natrium42> Lunar_Lander: Hiena is from hungary and he was here yesterday
[23:18] <Lunar_Lander> YES!
[23:18] <Lunar_Lander> I knew that we had someone from there
[23:18] <natrium42> :)
[23:18] <natrium42> we have pretty good coverage already
[23:18] <jcoxon> hey all
[23:19] <Lunar_Lander> hey jcoxon
[23:19] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
[23:19] <jcoxon> tired
[23:19] <jcoxon> you?
[23:20] <Lunar_Lander> same here
[23:20] <Lunar_Lander> we got someone from Romania here
[23:20] <Lunar_Lander> Raul__:
[23:20] <Raul__> :)
[23:20] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[23:21] <Lunar_Lander> so you think about SPOT you said
[23:22] <Lunar_Lander> do you have much experience with electronics?
[23:22] <Raul__> me?
[23:22] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[23:23] <Raul__> no, but I built steam engines, a gas turbine, some rockets and I got a glider pilot license for 3 years now
[23:26] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[23:26] <Lunar_Lander> I didn't know anything about electronics either when I came here
[23:26] <Lunar_Lander> then I began to experiment with Arduino
[23:26] <Raul__> can I put a link to my blog here?
[23:27] <Lunar_Lander> that should be OK I think
[23:27] <Raul__> http://microblade.blogspot.com/
[23:28] <Lunar_Lander> cool! thanks
[23:31] <natrium42> oh, you have that robot launch on your blog
[23:31] <Raul__> yes, someone in the UK did that
[23:32] <NigeyS> evening jcoxon
[23:35] <natrium42> yeah, people from this channel
[23:36] <jcoxon> hey NigeyS
[23:41] <NigeyS> how's things James ?
[23:41] <jcoxon> just back from my final weekend shift
[23:41] <jcoxon> made some picoatlas progress though
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[23:42] <NigeyS> oh awsome, and good news about the wekends!
[23:42] <jcoxon> yeah been hard work
[23:50] <Lunar_Lander> Raul__: did you hear of arduino before?
[23:51] <jcoxon> oooo new arduino ide
[23:51] <Lunar_Lander> yeah 1.0
[23:51] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[23:51] <Raul__> yes, I will however stick with the 2 GPS modules I bought for this launch
[23:51] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:51] <Lunar_Lander> do you plan to do further launches?
[23:52] <Raul__> depends on how well this one goes :)
[23:52] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[23:52] <Lunar_Lander> the most interesting thing of HAB are experiments I think
[23:52] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[23:53] <Raul__> I bought the balloon from scientific sales, are they ok?
[23:53] <Lunar_Lander> As far as I know yes
[23:53] <Lunar_Lander> is it a Totex/Kaymont type?
[23:54] <Raul__> http://www.scientificsales.com/8245-Weather-Balloon-1500-Grams-Natural-p/8245.htm it is this one
[23:54] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[23:54] <Lunar_Lander> I never ordered there
[23:54] <Lunar_Lander> maybe someone else knows
[23:55] <jcoxon> 1500 will be totex
[23:55] <jcoxon> howyee doen't make 1500
[23:56] <Raul__> Any advice on how to tie it to the payload and when filling?
[23:56] <Darkside> cable ties
[23:56] <NigeyS> lots of gaffa tape too :D
[23:56] <jcoxon> http://aprs.fi/?call=k6rpt-11,k6rpt-12,k6rpt-13,k6rpt-14
[23:56] <Darkside> ah we don't use tape
[23:56] <NigeyS> :o
[23:58] <Raul__> it would really suck to drive 500km into Hungary just to accidentaly pop the balloon and then drive another 500km home
[23:58] <Lunar_Lander> Raul__: there is a chinese company called Hwoyee and they make quite durable balloons
[23:59] <Lunar_Lander> which sometimes don't burst if you have little gas in them
[23:59] <Lunar_Lander> so Totex should be OK
[00:00] --- Mon Dec 12 2011