highaltitude.log.20111207

[00:00] <Matt_soton> and those that are probably wont manage that
[00:00] <Darkside> damn
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[00:08] <Matt_soton> anyway off to bed, laters
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[00:47] Nick change: wolo -> wool
[00:51] <NigeyS> yey more sodding rain :/
[00:51] <SamSilver> stary night here
[00:51] <NigeyS> bah no fair :(
[00:51] <SamSilver> 22 deg out
[00:51] <NigeyS> pff :(:(
[00:52] <SamSilver> am in my shorts only
[00:52] <NigeyS> go on rub it on..lol
[00:52] <NigeyS> in*
[00:52] <SamSilver> ok
[00:52] <SamSilver> one
[00:52] <SamSilver> more ... I am eating fruit salad
[00:52] <Darkside> 25 degrees outside atm
[00:52] <NigeyS> lol shut up !!!!!!!!!
[00:52] <NigeyS> hey Darkside
[00:52] <SamSilver> 02h52 here
[00:53] <NigeyS> dam, thought u were further ahead than that
[00:53] <Darkside> 11:23am here
[00:53] <SamSilver> brb reading > scrool-back
[00:53] <NigeyS> :o
[00:53] <NigeyS> in uni today dude?
[00:53] <Darkside> nah
[00:54] <Darkside> i'm sick
[00:54] <NigeyS> oh dam, wassup ?
[00:54] <Darkside> been able to get some stuff done tho
[00:54] <Darkside> ahh, caught some bug on the plane back from tassie
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[00:54] <NigeyS> bah that sucks, hope you are ok soon :)
[00:54] <Darkside> yer
[00:54] <Darkside> i've been able to get some stuff done though
[00:54] <Darkside> got a few orders placed for some boards i'm workign on
[00:54] <Darkside> if i had the parts i could probably work on them at home
[00:55] <NigeyS> oo, what ya been designing now mr ?
[00:55] <Darkside> the SDR board
[00:55] <NigeyS> oh, i was going to speak to you about that
[00:55] <Darkside> https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-eOsbDgQlntU/Tt3BQprZJXI/AAAAAAAAAD8/7KSwtrD1Siw/s816/2011%2B-%2B1
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[00:56] <NigeyS> nice!!!
[00:56] <NigeyS> that a 10x10 pcb ?
[00:56] <Darkside> 5x5
[00:56] <NigeyS> ahh
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[01:14] <natrium42> Darkside: what happened to juxta?
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[01:19] <wool> hows that compare to soft66/softrock
[01:19] <wool> 1W transmit?
[01:20] <NigeyS> naaaaaaaaaaaaaaatrium!
[01:21] <NigeyS> hi wool
[01:22] <natrium42> Greetings Nigey S. Van Highaltitude
[01:22] <SpeedEvil> That reminds me.
[01:22] Action: SpeedEvil wants to try some sodium H2 genrator
[01:23] <natrium42> >:S
[01:23] <NigeyS> oo sounds funky speedy!
[01:23] <NigeyS> and i cant add up
[01:24] <NigeyS> my cubesat is 20mm to big hah!
[01:25] <natrium42> oh, you're working on a cubesat?
[01:25] <NigeyS> well more of a habsat
[01:25] <NigeyS> trying to stick to cubesats standards, but without the actual in orbit rocket launch part lol
[01:25] <natrium42> cubesats are free to launch in USA
[01:25] <natrium42> :S
[01:25] <NigeyS> would cost about £180,000
[01:30] <SpeedEvil> I guess sodium is out.
[01:30] <SpeedEvil> It's ridiculously expensive.
[01:30] <natrium42> \o/
[01:31] <natrium42> what about potassium?
[01:33] <natrium42> (superior potassium from kazakhstan)
[01:34] <NigeyS> SpeedEvil, you heard of polyetherketone resin ?
[01:34] <SpeedEvil> I only buy prostitutes from Kazakhstan.
[01:34] <SpeedEvil> NigeyS: nope.
[01:34] <Dan-K2VOL1> free natrium42? do tell how! I have a pile of electronics just waitin' to go to space! :-)
[01:34] <NigeyS> lol dan, me first !!
[01:35] <SpeedEvil> I had a cunning plan involving a fake bird and a camoflagued thing to drop onto shuttle.
[01:35] <natrium42> Dan-K2VOL1: i heard that all you need is being associated with a university
[01:35] <Dan-K2VOL1> haha
[01:35] <Dan-K2VOL1> oh I suppose so, then hibby might say the same
[01:36] <Dan-K2VOL1> alexei have been taking captures on the in reach
[01:36] <NigeyS> if ure a student yeah, can go via the uni, but if ure an individual, or a non uni group, its just to expensive etc
[01:37] <natrium42> Dan-K2VOL1: cool, anything interesting?
[01:37] <Dan-K2VOL1> oh just parsing through logic captures still, life gets busy sometimes!
[01:38] <SpeedEvil> I want to try pulsed plasma thrusters on a microsat
[01:38] <Dan-K2VOL1> but the AT protocol mode that they're using on the 9602 is nice and simple
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[01:41] <natrium42> i love the labeled connectors :D
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[01:50] Action: SpeedEvil sighs at the lack of easy availability of alkali metals.
[01:55] <Darkside> natrium42: what about juxta?
[01:57] <natrium42> he never talks anymore
[01:57] <Darkside> heh
[01:57] <Darkside> he's around tho
[01:58] <natrium42> what did you do with him? D:
[01:58] <Darkside> lol
[01:58] <Darkside> he's fine
[01:58] <Darkside> i think he went to melbourne today
[01:58] <natrium42> mkay
[01:59] <Darkside> wool:
[01:59] <NigeyS> he's buried him in the garden!
[01:59] <Darkside> damn, NigeyS has seen through my ruse
[01:59] <Darkside> yes, i murdered him
[01:59] <Darkside> but i did not shoot the deputy
[01:59] <NigeyS> see! :p
[02:00] <natrium42> :O
[02:01] <Darkside> >_>
[02:01] <Darkside> aaaanyway
[02:01] <natrium42> < Darkside> i think he went to melbourne today
[02:01] <natrium42> but can we track him?
[02:01] <Darkside> no
[02:01] <Darkside> he doesnt have APRS in his car (yet)
[02:01] <natrium42> i thought he would've developed a bionic tracker by now
[02:02] <natrium42> and had it implanted
[02:02] <Darkside> hah
[02:02] <Darkside> no
[02:02] <Darkside> we're thinking of hiding an APRS tracker in his car
[02:03] <natrium42> haha
[02:11] <SpeedEvil> http://eng.cel-li.com/comcontent_detail/&FrontComContent_list01-1300684201707CurrentIds=14934d93-dd78-4fe1-a0b5-c5ae7e110d26__2c322249-f3d4-4098-876a-414c0f30c2e5&comContentId=2c322249-f3d4-4098-876a-414c0f30c2e5&comp_stats=comp-FrontComContent_list01-1300684201707.html - wirefeeder into a little bit of water
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[05:09] <SpeedEvil> http://connect.arc.nasa.gov/kepler?launcher=false
[05:09] <SpeedEvil> More kepler - awesome
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[07:14] <natrium42> kepler is the best mission ever
[07:23] <SpeedEvil> It's pretty awesome.
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[07:24] <SpeedEvil> I do wonder what else they might find if they slewed it to a stellar nursery for a few weeks
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[07:56] <natrium42> hey jcoxon
[07:57] Nick change: wool -> wola
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[08:45] <GW8RAK> Morning all, does anyone have experience of the CMPS10 compass module from http://www.robot-electronics.co.uk/acatalog/Compass.html
[08:45] <GW8RAK> Or have any recommendations for other similar units please?
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[08:50] <Dutch-Mill> ping benoxley goodmorning the flight of ASTRA on schedule ?
[08:51] <natrium42> hey Dutch-Mill
[08:51] <natrium42> going to be tracking?
[08:51] <Dutch-Mill> Yep, partly remote depends on the flighttime
[08:51] <natrium42> awesome, looking forward to the flight
[08:53] <Dutch-Mill> Yes I'm curious gale force overhere ...if it floats ?
[08:55] <Matt_soton> Dutch-Mill: we are not actually launching it, but we havnt heard that anything is not going to plan
[08:56] <Dutch-Mill> Oke thankz back in an hour or so..
[08:58] <gonzo__> I'm confused matt, do you mean the plan is still to launch?
[08:58] <Matt_soton> yea its beign launched, but not by us
[08:59] <gonzo__> ah, ok. ta
[09:00] <Darkside> Matt_soton: who is launching it?
[09:01] <Matt_soton> people from the engineering department
[09:01] <Matt_soton> theyve launched before so they shouldnt screw it up
[09:01] <Matt_soton> also just got a call, they want to launch early, 10.15 ish
[09:01] <junderwood> Ground weather in Duxford. 20 mph winds gusting to 41 mph.
[09:01] <junderwood> Good luck!
[09:02] <Darkside> Matt_soton: so someone at the launch site is RXing the payload?
[09:03] <Matt_soton> hopefully they can do it in a shielded locations
[09:03] <Matt_soton> yea they can receive it
[09:03] <Matt_soton> and should have internet...
[09:06] <gonzo__> I don't see the atlas panes on the tracking page yet
[09:06] <Darkside> they're not launching yet gonzo__
[09:07] <gonzo__> ok, they usually apprear days before
[09:07] <gonzo__> or is that only when the first test telem frames come in?
[09:08] <Matt_soton> what do you mean by atlas panes anyway? :\
[09:10] <Darkside> Matt_soton: the box showing the info on the atlas payload
[09:10] <Darkside> its only going to show up when data is being decoded
[09:10] <Matt_soton> oh i see
[09:10] <Matt_soton> the payloads called ASTRA not ATLAS, hence confusion
[09:14] <gonzo__> sorry, astra. I'm hard of thinking
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[09:15] <Matt_soton> its early...
[09:15] <gonzo__> ah, at least I got it right on fldigi, I'm not going completely daft!
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[09:32] <Graham_G3VZV> unfortunately the 6780khz freq has a mega strong data signal on it:(
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[09:36] <gonzo__> looks like the edge of a stanag channel. But hopefully astra2 (got it right that time) is slightly hf of the 6780 slot
[09:39] <costyn> just looking at the tracker... Did BOBAS really land just mere meters beyond the poland/belarus border?
[09:41] <daveake> 300m apparently
[09:41] <costyn> looks like there's a fence or some sort of barrier there; that sucks I guess... but I guess thety weren't planning on retrieveing it anyway right?
[09:42] <daveake> Dunno, but the prediction said Belarus when they launched
[09:43] <costyn> at least someone was close to it when it landed to have recieved it's last few packets
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[09:50] <nosebleedkt_> costyn: so i find it easy to perfom encryption on a partition by using the ecryptfs kernel module and the ecrypt-utils package
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[09:51] <nosebleedkt_> you create some dirs/ and then just mount -t ecryptfs
[09:52] <nosebleedkt_> and when you umount only the encrypted files are shown
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[09:53] <nosebleedkt_> and the passphrases or keys you use to mount the partition are save inside the kernel keyring thing which currently i dont know what it is
[09:58] <costyn> nosebleedkt_: heh... well there's a challenge for you
[09:58] <nosebleedkt_> :)
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[10:06] <Moomean> Morn :o
[10:06] <Moomean> Damm balloon! :P
[10:06] <Moomean> Damm Belarus ;)
[10:06] <fsphil> "oops" ?
[10:07] <Moomean> 300 meters from borderline
[10:07] <fsphil> no chance of nipping over and getting it?
[10:07] <costyn> Moomean: yea I was just looking at that
[10:07] <daveake> Bribe a border guard
[10:07] <Moomean> we contacted authorities, chanses are the're are to give it us back
[10:07] <costyn> Moomean: is there a fence there?
[10:07] <costyn> Moomean: ah good
[10:07] <daveake> cool
[10:07] <Moomean> no fence, just guns ;)
[10:08] <natrium42> polish spys
[10:08] <Moomean> we were there yesterday night
[10:08] <natrium42> spying on our belarus hi tech industry
[10:08] <Moomean> talked to some guy who lives just dunno 500m from landing site ?
[10:09] <Moomean> ;)
[10:09] <Moomean> met our coastal guard on way back
[10:09] <Moomean> asking where-from where-to
[10:09] <Moomean> and then: naaahhh, baloon people
[10:09] <Moomean> chit-chat
[10:10] <Moomean> said: chances 50-50 for recovery
[10:10] <Moomean> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWd3fxcvTl0
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[10:12] <Upu> Hi there Moomean
[10:12] <costyn> nice payload
[10:12] <Upu> do you mind if I clear BOBAS-NG from the tracker ?
[10:12] <daveake> It's almost pink :p
[10:13] <Upu> I approve
[10:13] <Moomean> Upu: high ;)
[10:13] <m0lep> Astra on tracker...
[10:13] <Moomean> Upu: could it stay for a day or two ?
[10:13] <Upu> sure
[10:14] <Upu> m0lep any chance of ascent rate and predicted burst so I can update the live prediction ?
[10:14] <Moomean> thx
[10:14] <Upu> or whoever is onsite
[10:14] <Moomean> Is it possible to implement something like a historical tracking info plot on request ?
[10:14] <m0lep> Not sure how I do that...
[10:15] <Upu> I think thats availble you'd need to speak to one of the Habitat people
[10:15] <Moomean> who are ,,the Habitat people'' ? :)
[10:15] <Upu> ping Matt_soton
[10:15] <Upu> have you ever seen the Moonmins ? they are like them
[10:15] Action: m0lep was just watching the tracker and saw it appear...
[10:15] <m0lep> ;)
[10:15] <Upu> ok m0lep :)
[10:15] <Upu> Habitat is the tracking system
[10:16] <SpeedEvil> http://www.habitat.co.uk/
[10:16] <Upu> developed by Randomskk, jonsowman and others
[10:16] <Moomean> Moonmins or Moomins? ;)
[10:16] <Upu> Moomins :)
[10:16] <Graham_G3VZV> astra reciver is already flaoting i see
[10:16] <Darkside> Moomean: is it ok to clear the BOBAS-NG data from the tracker?
[10:16] <Upu> He'd like it left there Darkside
[10:17] <Darkside> bah
[10:17] <Darkside> its not hard to get the data
[10:17] <Upu> interesting
[10:17] <Upu> live prediction
[10:17] <Moomean> how can it be plotted ?
[10:17] <costyn> heh... prediction says ASTRA will land in Czech at the moment ... lol
[10:17] <Upu> yeah I'll fix that
[10:17] <Upu> I don't know what predicted burst or ascent rate are
[10:17] <Darkside> Moomean: we can get the csv data out of habitat
[10:17] <Darkside> Moomean: but you'd do better to use the aprs data
[10:18] <Darkside> since theres a distinct lack of data points on spacenear.us
[10:18] <Upu> Also Moomean
[10:18] <Upu> click your payload
[10:18] <Upu> then click track in google earth at the bottom
[10:19] <costyn> Matt_soton: so do you have any recovery plans for ASTRA?
[10:19] <Upu> actually that prediction is good for 36k
[10:19] <Upu> still getting the data though
[10:20] <Moomean> the distinct lack of data points is our car internet problem unfortunetely :/
[10:20] <Moomean> ant the gps problem - got stuck above that 18km
[10:20] <Darkside> ahh
[10:21] <Darkside> well that doesnt help either
[10:21] <Moomean> no it doesn't
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[10:21] <Moomean> but I'm proud of the radio
[10:21] <Darkside> anyway, i saw heaps of data on APRS
[10:21] <Moomean> we were receiving it all the way with a magnet car antenna
[10:21] <costyn> the /topic here needs to be updated as well. ;)
[10:21] <Darkside> dunno how you can extract it though
[10:21] <Darkside> Moomean: this is normal
[10:22] <Moomean> 100km away at some point
[10:22] <Darkside> you'd to better with a cross-dipole though
[10:22] <Moomean> the baloon outran us
[10:22] <Darkside> speaking of which, we'll have to get the designs of a magmount cross-dipole we're working on to everyone
[10:22] <Darkside> because it worked incredibly well last launch
[10:22] <Darkside> no more loss of signal when the payload is above us
[10:22] <Moomean> and our grand station people didn't upload data to the tracker :/
[10:22] <Moomean> Darkside: that's a great idea
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[10:24] <Moomean> our next project to be decided: the most minimalistic payload running of watch batterry :P
[10:25] <Darkside> watch battery might be pushing it a little
[10:25] <Darkside> but i know a single AAA is possible
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[10:26] <G0APM> test
[10:26] <Upu> sucess
[10:26] <Darkside> success
[10:26] <G0APM> Thank you..
[10:26] <Upu> spelling fail
[10:27] <G0APM> So now what?
[10:27] <Darkside> we wait
[10:27] <Darkside> hehe
[10:27] <Upu> ISH time in effect
[10:28] <G0APM> Shall be listening 6780KHz.
[10:28] <Upu> ok that would be good
[10:28] <Darkside> G0APM: apparently there is a STANAG broadcast on that frequency atm
[10:28] <G0APM> Unfortunately I can hear washing machines is Oclow
[10:28] <G0APM> Or Oslow even
[10:28] <Darkside> can anyone with a SDR confirm that its stanag?
[10:29] <G0APM> And what is STANAG
[10:29] <Darkside> its a data mode, used by the military
[10:29] <Darkside> quite common throughout HF
[10:29] #highaltitude: mode change '+o eroomde' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[10:29] <G0APM> How dare they.
[10:29] Topic changed on #highaltitude by eroomde!ed@kraken.habhub.org: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders etc) www.ukhas.org.uk - ASTRA launch ~1030UTC 07/12/11 Duxford UK
[10:30] <Darkside> G0APM: haha
[10:30] #highaltitude: mode change '-o eroomde' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
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[10:31] <Darkside> G0APM: you might do better to track the UHF frequency if you can
[10:31] <G0APM> Unfortunately UHF antenna is down right now..
[10:32] <Darkside> G0APM: where are you located?
[10:32] <G0APM> Aveley Essex
[10:32] <Darkside> oh wait i see you on the map
[10:32] <Darkside> you only need a 1/4 wave vertical for much of the flight
[10:32] <benoxley> good morning
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[10:35] <G0APM> Are we there yet?
[10:36] <Darkside> altitude of -61m says otherwise
[10:36] <SpeedEvil> Naah - it's right.
[10:37] <SpeedEvil> They filled it with Krypton, not Helium.
[10:37] <benoxley> apparently launching in the next 5 mins
[10:37] <G0APM> Excellent
[10:38] <benoxley> someone (jonsowman) forgot to bring the active element of the yagi
[10:38] <benoxley> not naming names though....
[10:38] <fsphil> haha
[10:38] Action: danielsaul didnt forget to give it to jonsowman at all...
[10:38] <edmoore> you have your yagis in bits?
[10:38] <benoxley> i blame you too danielsaul
[10:38] <danielsaul> :(
[10:39] <benoxley> edmoore: its a collapsable
[10:39] <edmoore> ah right
[10:44] <gonzo__> ah, it's going up from cambs
[10:44] <gonzo__> obviously because they have the notam in place
[10:45] <junderwood> No. It's going from Duxford with a new NOTAM
[10:45] <gonzo__> ah
[10:46] <gonzo__> ta
[10:46] <benoxley> right
[10:46] <benoxley> get read for this
[10:46] <benoxley> *ready
[10:46] <edmoore> Astra listening station - you're off the coast of Niger (0,0)
[10:47] <edmoore> no longest decode cheating
[10:47] <hibby> good rx on that system, then.
[10:47] <daveake> We should hold the next UKHAS meeting there
[10:47] <daveake> So many people close by
[10:47] <costyn> hehehe
[10:47] <edmoore> it's true
[10:47] <edmoore> almost all new listeners seem to start out in the sea there
[10:47] <Darkside> we get a lot of japanese people monitoring our launches in australia
[10:48] <Darkside> (people forgetting to put a -ve on the latitude)
[10:48] <Graham_G3VZV> its where a lot of 747s end up apparently - when their drivers forget to set their gear up as well:)
[10:48] <benoxley> that is my supervisor edmoore who is launching the balloon
[10:48] <benoxley> i dont know what he's done but the balloon tore at the neck
[10:48] <daveake> !!!
[10:48] <Darkside> whaaaat
[10:48] <edmoore> oh dear!
[10:48] <daveake> gt a spare?
[10:48] <costyn> NOES!
[10:48] <benoxley> we have a spare
[10:49] <benoxley> (smaller)
[10:49] <junderwood> maybe he tried to launch it in 20 mph winds?...
[10:49] <daveake> Spare launcher I mean :p
[10:49] <Upu> benoxley what balloon is it and what ascent rate are you going for /
[10:49] <costyn> daveake: hehe
[10:49] <benoxley> its an 800g
[10:49] <benoxley> was a 2000g howyee
[10:49] <benoxley> expensive break
[10:49] <Darkside> ouch
[10:49] <daveake> ouch
[10:50] <benoxley> but yes,
[10:50] <costyn> benoxley: was it filled/partially filled?
[10:50] <junderwood> Plenty of time to work on that HF dipole now :)
[10:50] <benoxley> basically for reasons unkown we wern't allowed onsite
[10:50] <benoxley> so people who don't know how to launch balloons are launching them
[10:50] <benoxley> costyn: it was fully filled for a low ascent rate
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[10:51] <Darkside> oh thats stupid
[10:51] <costyn> benoxley: meh... so all helium gone too now?
[10:51] <Martin100> How does a 800g replace a 2000g?
[10:51] <benoxley> they should be launching the 800g soon
[10:51] <benoxley> it was a *very* light payload
[10:52] <daveake> Going for my record then? ;)
[10:52] <Upu> not with an 800
[10:52] <benoxley> haha, we wanted a float really
[10:52] <daveake> Nope :D
[10:52] <Darkside> so how did the balloon neck break?
[10:52] <Darkside> any info?
[10:52] <daveake> Actually, the thing I'm proudest of is launching on time :)
[10:53] <edmoore> people with no launch experience are trying to do it?
[10:53] <edmoore> that's preposterous
[10:53] <daveake> Especially in these winds
[10:54] <daveake> Was bad enough at the weekend; worse now
[10:54] <danielsaul> benoxley: Did they fill it in the hanger?
[10:54] <edmoore> i think if they can't give a good reason for it, you can be actually quite rude to them
[10:54] <Darkside> get the to pay for the gas you lost
[10:54] <Darkside> and the cost of the balloon
[10:54] <junderwood> Is the payload well protected? It's going to be bouncing along the ground for quite a while after "launch".
[10:54] <daveake> £200 ish total
[10:54] <edmoore> some people deserve to have their day ruined with abuse every now and then. reinforcement learning.
[10:55] <Darkside> i would have just launched outside the airfield
[10:55] <costyn> edmoore: :)
[10:56] <Darkside> theres a nice big carpark there
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[10:57] <benoxley> it's my supervisor launching and its his project money so im not too worried
[10:57] <danielsaul> Going to setup yagi on biology balcony now...
[10:57] <benoxley> danielsaul: does your yagi have a driven element?
[10:57] <danielsaul> benoxley: I hope so :P
[10:58] <danielsaul> Sorry about that :P
[10:58] <jonsowman> D:
[10:58] <edmoore> oh well, good luck with attempt #2
[10:59] <Graham_G3VZV> is hearing rtty around 434.077 usb
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[10:59] <Darkside> decodable?
[11:00] <Upu> hmm odd
[11:00] <Upu> I see that too but tis 3 lines on the water fall
[11:00] <Upu> can't be up yet
[11:01] <Upu> Darkside you staying up ?
[11:01] <Darkside> its only 9:30pm here
[11:01] <Darkside> i'll be up for a few more hours
[11:01] <Darkside> not planning on tracking tho
[11:01] <benoxley> apparently it's in the air
[11:02] <Darkside> well their receiver on the ground isn't working
[11:02] <benoxley> yes
[11:02] <benoxley> tell me about it x_X
[11:02] <benoxley> anyone recieveing?
[11:03] <G0APM> OK.. What's the news?
[11:03] <Graham_G3VZV> just hearing it lots of flutter qsb
[11:04] <fsphil> urg.. I think I forgot to plug my 817 in -- it just went silent
[11:04] <jonsowman> the 817 batteries last about 5 mins anyway don't they?
[11:04] <fsphil> I usually get a few hours out of them
[11:05] <fsphil> and I've been in work for a few hours so right on schedule :)
[11:05] <fsphil> that's without TX'ing
[11:05] <fsphil> no idea how much charge they had
[11:06] <benoxley> any idea on dial frequency?
[11:06] <m0lep> Hmmm... Signal is very fluttery at 434.076.8
[11:06] <benoxley> okay, thanks
[11:08] <m0lep> UUU$,ASTRA1,3446@91:07:1D,5"X.7^011w150l33Q,1.,X*BB
[11:08] <Upu> jonsowman about 3-4 hours if you have squeltch on and don't transmit @ 5w
[11:08] <Darkside> i think i can just make out lines in the waterfall
[11:08] <costyn> Darkside: you using a globaltuner again?
[11:08] <Darkside> theres a lot of local QRM
[11:08] <Darkside> i'm using upus box
[11:08] <jonsowman> dial freq?
[11:09] <m0lep> Sounds like it's spinning even faster than Buzz2 did after burst...
[11:09] <m0lep> About 100rpm
[11:09] <daveake> blimey
[11:09] <Darkside> m0lep: can you give me dial freq again?
[11:10] <Upu> is it up ?
[11:10] <m0lep> 434.077.22 at present
[11:11] <jonsowman> ta m0lep
[11:11] <benoxley> anyone trying 6mhz?
[11:11] <junderwood> Nothing on HF
[11:12] <junderwood> (nothing that sounds like RTTY anyway)
[11:13] <Darkside> theres something local at Upus place
[11:13] <Darkside> thats interfering a lot
[11:14] <Darkside> i see lines on the waterfall, but nothing is decodable
[11:14] <Upu> 434.075 is a night mare
[11:14] <daveake> Is here too
[11:14] <Upu> turn the NB off in HRD if you want a real lol
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[11:15] <m0lep> I'm seeing lines but the signal seems to be being chopped into bits a hundred times a minute...l
[11:16] <Darkside> hey i can see the signal better with NB off
[11:16] <Darkside> haha
[11:16] <Darkside> but its still not decoding
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[11:18] <Darkside> its drifting a bit now
[11:18] <Upu> thats just local
[11:18] <Upu> I have no HF antenna btw
[11:18] <m0lep> UURASTRA1,2v381]18/0,5Wt83,00845.3711(74444-1
[11:19] <m0lep> Hmmm....
[11:19] <jonsowman> any guesses at what that altitude is?
[11:19] <Darkside> m0lep: are you seeing it drift down?
[11:19] <m0lep> 434.076.5 now
[11:19] <Darkside> yeah
[11:19] <Darkside> thats what i'm seeing
[11:19] <Darkside> nowhere near decodable though
[11:20] <Graham_G3VZV> a few characters are clear here..
[11:22] <m0lep> I get something like this at 50 baud: UUU$$ASTRL1,36l7,2]\:X7,=Z, 9045.3vlV764t,-22.1-57[*7g24
[11:22] <Darkside> drifting quote noticably
[11:22] <Darkside> but yeah, no decodes
[11:22] <Upu> not even in the air yet ?
[11:22] <Darkside> Upu: its in the air
[11:23] <Darkside> its just got really crap signal
[11:23] <Darkside> whats the antenna on it?
[11:23] <m0lep> 434.075.0 now
[11:23] <Darkside> yep
[11:23] <Darkside> and going down down down
[11:24] <jonsowman> Darkside: in theory a 1/4 wave
[11:24] <Darkside> yeah, in theory
[11:24] <Darkside> sounds like it got bumped
[11:25] <Upu> thats in the air ?
[11:25] <Darkside> Upu: yep
[11:25] <Upu> max alittude 45m ?
[11:25] <Darkside> Upu: its hardly showing up on the waterfall
[11:25] <Darkside> noone has any valid decodes yet
[11:25] <m0lep> The spin (or whatever) is slowing down a bit. Now nearer 50rmp
[11:25] <Upu> you should get it around 2k ?
[11:26] <Darkside> Upu: it should be well above that by now
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[11:26] <Darkside> i swear, its like this thing has no antenna
[11:27] <Darkside> though its probably also right above upus rig
[11:27] <Darkside> which isnt going to help
[11:27] <Upu> its 150 miles away :)
[11:27] <costyn> this could have been prevented by testing with a radio on the ground at the launch site to see if it decodes in dlfldigi right?
[11:28] <Darkside> OH
[11:28] <Darkside> Upu: oh lol
[11:28] <Upu> have a hunt up and down Darkside, know i'm teaching my grandma to suck eggs
[11:28] <Darkside> i thought you were further south
[11:28] <Darkside> Upu: i can see it
[11:28] <Upu> ok
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[11:28] <Darkside> i'm folowing the drift
[11:28] <Upu> ah drifty ?
[11:28] <Upu> not good
[11:28] <jonsowman> Darkside: dial freq?
[11:28] <ggeudraco> hate to be ignorant...
[11:29] <Darkside> 434.072MHz, its showing up around the 2000 mark on dlfldigi
[11:29] <ggeudraco> ...but do we actually have a RT location of ASTRA1?
[11:29] <Darkside> costyn: yes, you are right about that. this is why you always check that telemetry is OK before launching
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[11:29] <Upu> ggeudraco not at the moment
[11:29] <Upu> sounds like people can hear it but not decode its telemetry
[11:30] <ggeudraco> just finding it difficult to figure out which GlobalTuner to use :/
[11:30] <Upu> GlobalTuners generally aren't great at this some have 70cm antennas
[11:30] <Darkside> ggeudraco: try the dover ones
[11:31] <ggeudraco> on 70cm?
[11:31] <m0lep> Yeah. It's spinning, and the antenna seems to have something directional about it, so you get signal for only half of each rotation (at best).
[11:31] <Darkside> i think one of them has a colinear
[11:31] <Upu> oh yeah this is on HF too
[11:31] <Darkside> m0lep: damn
[11:31] <Upu> G0APM_ hows the HF doing ?
[11:31] <G0APM_> Nothing at all.. So far :(
[11:31] <Upu> it might settle down
[11:31] <Darkside> HF shouldn't be drifty, which means its going to be right in the middle of some STANAG
[11:31] <m0lep> Good news is the spin is slowing down...
[11:32] <G0APM_> Absolutely . .
[11:32] <costyn> is it a stiff antenna or just a wire?
[11:32] <gonzo__> what's the shift on UHF?
[11:32] <Darkside> gonzo__: about 350hz now
[11:32] <Darkside> or less
[11:32] <Matt_soton> i wonder what the spin has done to the hf antenna...
[11:33] <costyn> if it's spinning that fast the antenna will be swinging out to the sside due to centripital forces
[11:34] <Darkside> i cant even make it out anymore
[11:34] <gonzo__> yep, then seeing traces of the UHF sig, but very weak
[11:34] <Graham_G3VZV> gone here too
[11:34] <ggeudraco> radio silence at 434.075 in Dover :/
[11:34] <Darkside> ggeudraco: 434.071
[11:34] <number10> has it been launched? spacenearus showing it still at duxford
[11:35] <m0lep> It's faded quite a bit, and it's nearer 434.071.5 now
[11:35] <m0lep> Yeah, none of its telemetry has yet been decodable.
[11:37] <m0lep> Nearest I've got so far: @TRA1,2942,11:q:`7,5155.4840,000$3711,7444,-37.6,564*2D66
[11:38] <costyn> well at least that shows altitude and outside temp
[11:38] <ggeudraco> sounds pretty recent
[11:38] <m0lep> about 2 minutes ago
[11:38] <jgrahamc> Assuming that the checksum is correct it should be possible to reconstruct likely valid strings from one like that given that we know the complete format.
[11:39] <ggeudraco> hope you smeared the balloon with plenty of Ambre Solaire
[11:39] <ggeudraco> we might be doing overtime to track it ;)
[11:39] <Darkside> Upu: i'm going to close this off now
[11:39] <Upu> hey jgrahamc
[11:39] <Darkside> its not working
[11:39] <Upu> no problems
[11:39] <jgrahamc> Hey Upu
[11:39] <Upu> you found the hidden code yet ? :)
[11:39] <jgrahamc> You talking about the GCHQ thing?
[11:40] <jgrahamc> Not planning to do any work on that, although to be frank I don't really believe the explanation that GCHQ gave and it wouldn't surprise me to find that the 'random' data isn't random
[11:40] <Upu> yeah
[11:41] <Upu> I see that Darkside that is very very weak
[11:41] <ggeudraco> hmm, can hear some slight bleeping
[11:42] <ggeudraco> but it's like -3dB
[11:42] <m0lep> drifting back up slightly. 434.072.1 on the dial
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[11:43] <daveake> I can see it, but sqrt(0) chance of a decode
[11:44] <Upu> 434.072.3 here
[11:44] <jgrahamc> Where can I find the ASTRA1 string description? I should able to whip up a string predictor that works off incomplete strings pretty fast.
[11:44] <Graham_G3VZV> shift 335hz
[11:46] <jonsowman> jgrahamc: see email to ukhas list
[11:46] <jgrahamc> Will do jonsowman
[11:46] <jonsowman> jgrahamc: give me a shout if you can't find it
[11:46] <jonsowman> it's definitely in one of the emails
[11:46] <Upu> click the link on www.spacenear.us
[11:47] <Upu> Rob_M0DTS are you tracking this ?
[11:47] <Rob_M0DTS> Upu sorry no, too windy for antennas to be up!
[11:47] <Graham_G3VZV> its everso weak n uhf
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[11:48] <jonsowman> has anyone heard the hf?
[11:48] <Upu> ok Rob_M0DTS understandable , I think you're going to need a Yagi to have any chance of getting this
[11:49] <ggeudraco> think it's left the country now :/
[11:49] <Upu> oh
[11:49] <Graham_G3VZV> noway you will never hear it under the big data signal covering that frequency
[11:49] <Upu> G3VzV got a packet
[11:49] <Rob_M0DTS> 6.78MHz is no good here anyway, big commercial data signal.
[11:49] <jonsowman> okay Rob_M0DTS
[11:49] <jonsowman> same here in southampton
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[11:50] <jgrahamc> I've got it jonsowman
[11:50] <danielsaul> got:
[11:50] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) joined #highaltitude.
[11:50] <danielsaul> UUU$$ASTRA!e#0{A>t,4p"7U(_0A0#j2
[11:50] <danielsaul> 'D65V11:18:07,5155.4840,00045.3711,7444,-30.4,554*3Fp
[11:50] <jgrahamc> Hacking a quick program to reverse engineer the string from a partial.
[11:50] <jonsowman> danielsaul: uhf?
[11:50] <danielsaul> 434.073.99
[11:50] <danielsaul> yeah
[11:51] <jonsowman> thanks danielsaul
[11:51] <danielsaul> has the altitude not changed?
[11:51] <fsphil> hey guys, all working?
[11:51] <fsphil> I've been afk
[11:51] <jonsowman> fsphil: not in the least
[11:51] <fsphil> ah
[11:51] <danielsaul> btw - it's priyesh, ed and phil on Dan's account
[11:52] <Graham_G3VZV> its drifting too fast for fldigi to track it
[11:52] <m0lep> I think the GPS may be stuck too. Always seems to be the same digits.
[11:52] <jgrahamc> Agreed. The altitude and position do not appear to have changed.
[11:52] <Darkside> i think we have some more things to put on the wiki
[11:52] <Darkside> like, testing routines, launch procedures
[11:52] <Darkside> etc
[11:53] <fsphil> there's a good page on software testing on there now, Upu's work
[11:53] <Darkside> thats good
[11:53] <Darkside> launch procedures is a good one
[11:53] <Darkside> check the antenna before launch
[11:53] <danielsaul> time shows as 11:08
[11:53] <Darkside> check telemetry before releasing
[11:53] <Darkside> etc
[11:53] <jonsowman> Darkside: common sense in theory
[11:53] <danielsaul> sorry 11:18
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[11:54] <Upu> current dial ?
[11:54] <m0lep> 434.074
[11:54] <danielsaul> 434.074
[11:54] <jonsowman> .073994
[11:55] <Matt_soton> whats the betting the person who lauched didnt secure the stuff like i said...
[11:55] <Matt_soton> and so gps antenna become moved
[11:55] <danielsaul> time has changed to 11:10
[11:55] <Darkside> another point to put in the launch procedures list: don't let someone else launch your payload
[11:56] <Upu> nothing here
[11:56] <Matt_soton> well i did make the tracker for him, so he is only losing his stuff (ignoring the 6.78M)
[11:56] <Darkside> what else is on the payload?
[11:57] <Matt_soton> lassen iq, 434 M, 6.78M, sd card
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[11:57] <Darkside> oh lassen IQ
[11:57] <Upu> ok I'm off to get some food, rig is yours if you want it Darkside
[11:58] <Darkside> theres your problem
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[11:58] <Darkside> particularly with the patch antenna
[11:58] <jonsowman> nothing wrong with the lassen Darkside
[11:58] <Darkside> jonsowman: if the antenna is pointed in teh right direction
[11:58] <jonsowman> i think that's a given
[11:58] <daveake> Ground plane helps
[11:58] <Darkside> hey, our sarantels work upside dow :P
[11:58] <Matt_soton> it has one
[11:58] <Matt_soton> for all we know the blox is pointing sideways
[11:59] <danielsaul> the lassen worked fine for alpha
[11:59] <Matt_soton> i also recon the swinging was due to the probable length of string between the payload and balloon
[11:59] <jonsowman> about a foot?
[12:00] <edmoore> hold up
[12:00] <edmoore> a 1 foot line between balloon and payload?
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[12:00] <jonsowman> i'm joking, i've no idea really
[12:00] <Darkside> we did 5m once and that was bad enough
[12:01] <Darkside> payload almost hit the bloody balloon on launch
[12:01] <NigeyS> if any has a better soundcard than me, the folkstone reciever on global tuners is picking this up
[12:01] <jonsowman> NigeyS: uhf?
[12:01] <NigeyS> yeah
[12:01] <Graham_G3VZV> uhf signal gone in mk
[12:01] <Darkside> NigeyS: lemme have a crack at it
[12:01] <NigeyS> very faint, but its there
[12:01] <Darkside> oh wiat
[12:01] <Darkside> i ca just join
[12:02] <jonsowman> NigeyS: what's the dial freq there?
[12:02] <NigeyS> 434.074
[12:02] <Darkside> cant hear it lol
[12:02] <NigeyS> its ridiculously faint
[12:02] <jonsowman> thanks NigeyS
[12:03] <NigeyS> set to high quality and turn ya speakers up alot Darkside this tuner has stupidly low volume
[12:03] <Darkside> ok
[12:04] <danielsaul> has anyone got a partial string recently?
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[12:05] <jonsowman> nope
[12:05] <Darkside> i'm waiting for a 50 baud string
[12:05] <NigeyS> wont get 1 from GT unless the signal gets any better
[12:07] <Darkside> that was interesting, just saw a big wobble in teh signal
[12:07] <danielsaul> same here
[12:07] <Darkside> and it just drifted a heap
[12:07] <Darkside> burst?
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[12:07] <Darkside> nigel just retuned
[12:07] <Darkside> lol
[12:07] <Darkside> but the wobble was still there
[12:07] <NigeyS> eek
[12:07] <Darkside> so thats a possible burst
[12:08] <Darkside> NigeyS: fixed
[12:08] <NigeyS> ah ta
[12:08] <benoxley> its on a 350g balloon apparently
[12:08] <Darkside> not a 800g?
[12:08] <benoxley> nope
[12:08] <Darkside> ok
[12:09] <Darkside> then that was probably burst
[12:09] <benoxley> i assumed 800g but apparently it isn't
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[12:09] <Darkside> NigeyS: i'm disconnecting now
[12:10] <NigeyS> okies
[12:10] <m0lep> fading fast....
[12:11] <fsphil> that's not a good sign
[12:14] TimZaman (~chatzilla@535602CA.cm-6-7a.dynamic.ziggo.nl) joined #highaltitude.
[12:14] <fsphil> is there a backup tracker? or was that the HF?
[12:14] Action: TimZaman is very happy with his xbee NTX2
[12:15] <Darkside> fsphil: the HF runs off the same GPS
[12:15] <NigeyS> hey Tim
[12:15] <TimZaman> oh hi
[12:16] <costyn> TimZaman: hiya
[12:16] <NigeyS> so the xbee ntx2 works nicely ?
[12:16] <costyn> TimZaman: did you make it yourself?
[12:16] <TimZaman> works great
[12:16] <TimZaman> obviously
[12:16] <TimZaman> making a post about it now
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[12:16] <costyn> :)
[12:16] <TimZaman> just tested it, works immediatelly
[12:16] <costyn> sweet
[12:16] <NigeyS> TimZaman, dont forget the obligatory video :p
[12:16] <TimZaman> includes two potmeters so you can exactly tune your shift and freq
[12:16] <TimZaman> omg video my ass
[12:17] <TimZaman> no wait
[12:17] <NigeyS> haha i dont want a video of ure ass!
[12:17] <Darkside> i don't want to see that
[12:17] <TimZaman> OK so maybe
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[12:17] <TimZaman> Darkside: dont lie
[12:17] <TimZaman> i have my pandaboard in though
[12:17] <Darkside> TimZaman: only john barrowman would turn me gay
[12:17] <TimZaman> oh there are a lot of people that would turn me gay
[12:18] <Darkside> and he's getting old
[12:18] <Darkside> haha
[12:18] <fsphil> lol
[12:18] <NigeyS> :| moving swiftly on......
[12:18] <TimZaman> gay as in Jolly ofcourse
[12:18] <fsphil> so, bees!
[12:18] <fsphil> got pics?
[12:18] <NigeyS> lovely weather eh :p
[12:18] <TimZaman> yeah just a sec
[12:18] <fsphil> lol
[12:18] <Darkside> TimZaman: so you're using the a usb to UART to drive this?
[12:19] <TimZaman> to drive what
[12:19] <TimZaman> oh right right
[12:19] <Darkside> the NTX2
[12:19] <TimZaman> so i made two
[12:19] <danielsaul> we're getting random bursts exactly every 31 seconds
[12:19] <TimZaman> the ntx2 usb stickie with minib mount (ftdi). and a xbee mount with just two potmeters and the ntx2 and a sma ant mount
[12:20] <TimZaman> so i am going to redo the pictures they suck ballz
[12:20] <Darkside> i think i'm going to get into bed and start reading the last ringbearer
[12:24] Action: daveake catches up with the last 30 or so messages and checks he's in the correct channel ...
[12:24] <NigeyS> lol
[12:24] <Matt_soton> apprently the antenna was taped to the side on the payload...
[12:24] <Matt_soton> let me get some pcitures
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[12:26] <Darkside> oh dear
[12:26] <daveake> Whoops, worse then me not straightening mine out :p
[12:27] <daveake> than
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[12:28] <Matt_soton> well lets say small box, big antenna
[12:28] <Matt_soton> who knows what happened
[12:28] <Matt_soton> or what way it was pointing
[12:28] <Darkside> Matt_soton: the UHF antenna wouldn't have been that big
[12:28] <Matt_soton> it was quite heavy
[12:28] <Darkside> wha
[12:28] <Darkside> what the hell kind of uhf antenna did you have?
[12:29] <Matt_soton> perhaps 50% of the payload weight
[12:29] <Matt_soton> well more a case of a very light case
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[12:29] <hibby> lead?
[12:29] <Matt_soton> it was based on a pl259 connector
[12:29] <hibby> :/
[12:29] <Darkside> oh dear
[12:29] <Darkside> i think i know the kind you mean now
[12:30] <Darkside> a 1/4 wave ground plane based off a so259 socket?
[12:30] <Matt_soton> that sort of antenna was what gave aplha the amazing range tho
[12:30] <Darkside> they're also fragile
[12:30] <Darkside> and heavy
[12:30] BEert (c1bf88c2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.191.136.194) joined #highaltitude.
[12:30] <Darkside> far better to build an antenna into a box
[12:31] <Matt_soton> http://gallery.apexhab.org/index.php/Apex-II/Launch-1/Launch-Photos/IMG_2866
[12:31] <Darkside> aaaaaaand i have no picture examples.. why is it we take pictures of everything OTHER than the freaking payloads
[12:32] <Darkside> yeah i know that type
[12:32] <Darkside> whats the black thing?
[12:32] <jonsowman> anti-spears of death
[12:32] <Darkside> jonsowman: oh god you should see our 2m payload
[12:32] <Darkside> that thing is death from above
[12:33] <jonsowman> :|
[12:33] <Dutch-Mill-mob> Sitll cant hear a thing outhere a large qrm source is humming on 434.077 :-(:-(
[12:33] <Darkside> http://vimeo.com/32753872
[12:33] <Darkside> theres a shot of the payload in that video
[12:33] <Darkside> one near the start, which is the UHF one
[12:33] <Darkside> and one later on , which shows both UHF and VHF payloads
[12:34] <jonsowman> oh yeah
[12:34] <jonsowman> cusf have done several like that
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[12:34] <Darkside> http://projecthorus.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/6mkrn.jpg
[12:34] <jonsowman> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/4721971075/in/set-72157624203062811
[12:34] <Darkside> theres another death from the skies payload
[12:34] <Darkside> that one disintegrated on landing though :P
[12:34] <NigeyS> you couldve smiled!
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[12:35] <daveake> I shall have to make a self-retracting antenna .... pulls in before landing :)
[12:35] <costyn> daveake: just use a bit of telescoping antenna? :)
[12:35] futurity (~anonymous@cpc30-cmbg15-2-0-cust1.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[12:35] <daveake> Something like that
[12:36] <Darkside> actually our VHF onr is great now
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[12:36] <daveake> Then it works upside down as it were, for increased range after landing
[12:36] <Darkside> the main whip is a diamond flexible VHF whip
[12:36] <Darkside> wich SMA connetor
[12:36] <Darkside> you can bend it right around
[12:36] <Darkside> so it hits the ground and doesnt break!
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[12:37] <Darkside> the UHF payload uses some kind of spring wire as the driven, and flat copper for the radials
[12:37] <Futurity_> Hi
[12:37] <NigeyS> ello Futurity
[12:37] <Futurity_> Hi NigeyS
[12:38] <jgrahamc> The GAGA-1 antenna was made out of coat hanger wire, but I added big polystyrene balls on all the ends for safety: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_dt4ksD7hyDE/TTtGe3-oxKI/AAAAAAAAAVc/-QHKmci2B80/s1600/IMG_2024.jpg
[12:38] <Futurity_> I can't seem to tune into the 434.075 payload
[12:38] <NigeyS> Futurity_, nor can anyone else...
[12:38] <Futurity_> lol
[12:38] <Futurity_> ok, not just me then
[12:38] <Futurity_> perhaps i should have checked in here before spending 30 minutes in the loft repositioning the aerial ;)
[12:38] <Matt_soton> btw how much interference did people get on 6.78?
[12:38] <NigeyS> nah, it seems to be suffering from antenna problems
[12:38] <gonzo__> a 335hz shidt on a 300bd signal is not a good start
[12:39] <LazyLeopard> It faded from the waterfall here about... 20 minutes ago?
[12:39] <Matt_soton> well it was 425hz
[12:39] <Darkside> Matt_soton: i dont think anyone heard it on HF
[12:39] <gonzo__> nada here
[12:39] <Matt_soton> i was wondering what the background noise/interfrence was
[12:39] <Darkside> there was a data transmission about on that frequency i beleive
[12:39] <Matt_soton> as were were getting a strong signal from something
[12:39] <Darkside> someone mentioned STANAG
[12:40] <Matt_soton> not the balloon
[12:40] <Darkside> yeah, STANAG4285
[12:40] <NigeyS> eek military ?
[12:40] <Darkside> military data
[12:40] <NigeyS> nice of them
[12:40] <Darkside> remember, all the ISM bands are secondary use
[12:40] <gonzo__> there eas a stanag modem close by, the 6.780 slot was in the noise at the edge of the modem
[12:40] <Matt_soton> so were we unlucky, or is that thing always on
[12:40] <Laurenceb> STANAG 2033 Interrogation of Prisoners of War (PW)
[12:41] <Darkside> Matt_soton: the payload that got us our longest distances ever: http://i.imgur.com/T5QSv.jpg
[12:41] <Darkside> check out the antenna
[12:41] <gonzo__> looked very much like the stanag modems, looking at the spectrum
[12:42] <Darkside> the main radial is the centre conductor of a bit of RG174 coax, ground plane is some single core wire
[12:42] <Darkside> and we got 800km paths
[12:42] <Matt_soton> power
[12:42] <Matt_soton> ?
[12:42] <jonsowman> powah
[12:42] <Darkside> 25mw
[12:42] <Darkside> so only 3dB more
[12:42] <Matt_soton> we got 700km with 10mW...
[12:43] <Matt_soton> sorry 770km
[12:43] <gonzo__> and of course no-one here would ever dream of using a 25mw module
[12:43] <Darkside> gonzo__: *cough*
[12:43] <Laurenceb> its limited by the horizon
[12:43] <gonzo__> thouigh you have to take into account the feed line losses
[12:43] <Darkside> Laurenceb: yes
[12:43] <Darkside> its notreally the power that makes the limit
[12:43] <Darkside> if you have LOS and a decent RX antenna you'll hear it
[12:44] <Laurenceb> if you do a range calculation, theoretically we could do thousands of Km
[12:44] <Darkside> we had people RXing horus 16 when it was 5 degrees below the horizon
[12:45] <Darkside> but we had some teriffic ducting going on that flight
[12:45] <Laurenceb> heh
[12:45] <Darkside> terrific*
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[12:45] <Darkside> natrium42: see, i didn;t murder him
[12:45] <NigeyS> could be his spirit :p
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[12:46] <Matt_soton> anwyay 6.78MHz seems to have miltary issues...
[12:46] <Matt_soton> 27.12 is quieter
[12:46] <Laurenceb> they set up the bomb?
[12:47] <joph> Matt_soton, 27.12 is cb ;)
[12:47] <Matt_soton> yea, but noone uses tht anymore?
[12:47] <Matt_soton> also 434 is ham
[12:47] <Matt_soton> 27.12 is a ism band btw
[12:48] <joph> thats too
[12:48] <Darkside> what power limit
[12:49] <Matt_soton> er...
[12:49] <eroomde> right in the middle of CB radio
[12:49] <Darkside> if you want to be decoded with skywave, you're going to need power
[12:49] <Darkside> unless you plan to send JT65 or something
[12:49] <eroomde> Darkside: about a yeah ago i saw someone do morse QSOs from cambridge UK to florida with 10mW tx
[12:50] <Matt_soton> 10mW
[12:50] <Darkside> yeah, morse
[12:50] <Darkside> and damn good conditions i bet
[12:50] <Matt_soton> also hellscriber?
[12:50] <Futurity_> did they use a large Yagi?
[12:51] <Darkside> Matt_soton: i'd use morse on HF
[12:51] <Darkside> or altenrate between morse and 50 baud RTTY
[12:51] <Darkside> alternate*
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[12:52] <Laurenceb> yeah i get 28dB snr at 1000Km with 10mw
[12:52] <Laurenceb> 14dBi receiver, 4dB NF, and 50bps
[12:52] <Darkside> big colinear?
[12:52] <Laurenceb> big yagi
[12:52] <Darkside> or yagi
[12:53] <Darkside> ahh
[12:53] <Darkside> hehehehe
[12:53] <Darkside> i get 11.7dBi out of my vertical...
[12:53] <Laurenceb> of course to rx long packets without loss you need a good SNR
[12:53] <Darkside> or i will once it gets on the roof
[12:53] <Laurenceb> but its got to be possible to extend to a few thousand Km
[12:54] <Darkside> Laurenceb: of course it is
[12:54] <Laurenceb> of course we cant get that high
[12:54] <Darkside> just look at what cubesats and stuff do
[12:54] <Darkside> thats the best example
[12:54] <Laurenceb> and theres atmospheric absorption as well
[12:54] <Laurenceb> i want to try something windband
[12:54] <Laurenceb> *wideband
[12:54] <Darkside> Laurenceb: ATV? :P
[12:55] <Laurenceb> not quite
[12:55] <Laurenceb> but theoretically we need to increase bandwidth
[12:55] <Darkside> can't wait to fly that
[12:55] <Laurenceb> as we are power limited
[12:55] <Darkside> what?
[12:55] <Darkside> thats the opposite of what you should do
[12:56] <Darkside> you want to concentrace what power you have into a small bandwidth
[12:56] <Laurenceb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channel_capacity
[12:56] <Darkside> spread it out and you have to have an even better SNR to get anything useful out
[12:56] <Darkside> though you could then pull tricks with channel coding and stuff
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[12:56] <Darkside> but i don't know if thats going to be any better than good old 50 baud rtty
[12:57] <Laurenceb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Channel_Capacity_with_Power-_and_Bandwidth-Limited_Regimes.png
[12:57] <Matt_soton> psk
[12:57] <Laurenceb> this is why mfsk beats psk
[12:57] <Darkside> then someone fly MSFK! :P
[12:57] <Laurenceb> already have
[12:57] <Darkside> dominoex?
[12:57] <Laurenceb> mfsk64
[12:58] <Laurenceb> its a little annoying with ntx2
[12:58] <Darkside> yeah i bet
[12:58] <Laurenceb> as you need to keep the deviation
[12:58] <Darkside> i should try that on HF
[12:58] <Laurenceb> id like to try with si4432
[12:58] <Darkside> Laurenceb: do you have code for that?
[12:58] <Darkside> :P
[12:58] <Laurenceb> on the wiki
[12:58] <Darkside> because i reeeealy dont want to have to code the error correction stuff
[12:59] <Darkside> string to symbols is what i want
[12:59] <Laurenceb> hehe it was a pita
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[12:59] <Darkside> i can then do symbols to output frequency with a DDS
[12:59] <Darkside> just like how i modified whoevers dominoex code
[12:59] <Laurenceb> http://ukhas.org.uk/code:radio?s[]=mfsk
[12:59] <fsphil> is varicode a standard across all the modes that use it?
[12:59] <Darkside> cool!
[13:00] <Darkside> fsphil: i wish
[13:00] <Laurenceb> i use pwm on atmega168
[13:00] <Darkside> Laurenceb: ouch
[13:00] <Laurenceb> wut?
[13:00] <Darkside> then again, whats the symbol rate of mfsk64?
[13:01] <Laurenceb> 62,5
[13:01] <Darkside> eeeeeeasy
[13:01] <Darkside> wait, 62.5 baud?
[13:01] <Darkside> i thought it was way slower than that
[13:01] <Darkside> wow
[13:01] <Laurenceb> mfsk64 is fast
[13:02] <Darkside> thats interesting
[13:02] <Laurenceb> http://www.w1hkj.com/FldigiHelp-3.20/Modes/MFSKdesc.htm
[13:02] <Darkside> yeah looking at that now
[13:02] <Laurenceb> the documentation is really poor
[13:02] <Darkside> the fldigi code is a pain in the ass to read
[13:03] <Laurenceb> yeah
[13:03] <Laurenceb> i thought id just read the fldigi code
[13:03] <Laurenceb> then my head exploded
[13:03] <Darkside> hehehe
[13:03] <Darkside> yep
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[13:03] <Darkside> easier to start from the spec
[13:03] <Darkside> if you can find one
[13:03] <Laurenceb> managed to find a page by one of the creators of the mode in the end
[13:03] <Darkside> i've always wanted to make a WSPR generator on an AVR
[13:03] <Laurenceb> dont have it bookmarked :(
[13:03] <Darkside> but the coding does my head in
[13:04] <Darkside> also i dont think the DDSes i use will do shifts precise enough to do WSPR
[13:06] <Dutch-Mill-mob> .
[13:06] <Upu> no joy with Astra then ?
[13:06] <Darkside> Upu: i think it'll have landed by now
[13:06] <Matt_soton> last time they launch it themselves...
[13:06] <Upu> well that was disappoint
[13:06] <daveake> ing
[13:06] <Darkside> i saw the signal wobble, which was burst i think
[13:06] <Upu> no I am disappoint
[13:06] <Matt_soton> for all i know the HF antenna was still in the box
[13:06] <Darkside> and that was a while ago
[13:07] <daveake> ed
[13:07] <Laurenceb> son
[13:07] <Darkside> i am moon
[13:07] Action: costyn is dissapoint too
[13:07] <Upu> http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/41787_214277156210_9019_n.jpg
[13:07] <costyn> Upu: trolololol
[13:08] <Upu> :)
[13:08] <daveake> lol
[13:08] <costyn> classic
[13:08] <Upu> this is still my fave http://www.se51.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/double-facepalm.jpg
[13:08] <costyn> bwahaha
[13:08] <Darkside> http://img.memecenter.com/uploaded/36893574d031e667d0c1ebe02d243786.jpg
[13:08] <costyn> heh
[13:09] <Upu> lol
[13:09] <costyn> poor Matt and benoxley
[13:09] <Upu> yeah not a good day hopefully we'll get a debrief and learn something
[13:11] <Matt_soton> well hard to learn anything when we werent there... :P
[13:11] <Matt_soton> although 6.78 has alot of interference
[13:11] <TimZaman> tharr we go
[13:11] <Matt_soton> could have worked otherwise
[13:11] <TimZaman> http://www.timzaman.nl/?p=2100&lang=en
[13:13] <TimZaman> NigeyS: fsphil ntx2 usb & xbee mounts here http://www.timzaman.nl/?p=2100&lang=en
[13:13] <NigeyS> wahey nice 1 Tim
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[13:14] <fsphil> will get a look shortly
[13:14] <TimZaman> food
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[13:14] <WillDuckworth> nice TimZaman
[13:14] <costyn> very cool Tim
[13:15] <Upu> HP = high power ?
[13:15] <Darkside> Upu: 25mw version
[13:15] <Darkside> what we use
[13:15] <Upu> yep
[13:16] <costyn> does it always transmit 25mW or can you vary the voltage (or something) to scale it down?
[13:16] <Darkside> no you cant
[13:16] <Darkside> 25mw output fixed
[13:16] <Darkside> nobody has even flown one of those in the UK >_>
[13:17] <Darkside> <_<
[13:17] <costyn> hehe
[13:17] <costyn> well i guess we're not as restricted here
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[13:17] Action: Upu lols a little on the inside
[13:18] <Upu> OFCOM couldn't find their arse from their elbow nevermind work out if someone is tranmistting 15mW more than they shuold
[13:18] <Upu> should
[13:20] <costyn> hehe
[13:20] <costyn> well what's stopping you
[13:22] <eroomde> i suspect they could actually
[13:22] <costyn> so ... did Astra land or splash?
[13:22] <eroomde> they have a few pretty advanced listening statiosn
[13:23] <eroomde> with very high resolution spacial demodulation
[13:23] <Upu> well I could tell the difference so I suspec they could
[13:23] <eroomde> so they can see exactly where a signal source is coming from to within say 0.1 degrees from 2 locations, so figure out the range and quite probably estimate the power
[13:24] <eroomde> i don't know if they could actually argue over 2/3dB but in general I would have thought they could estimate it pretty well
[13:24] <Upu> however is it likely to cause interferance
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[13:28] <fsphil> not at the higher baud rates anyway
[13:28] <fsphil> which is where you'd need the extra power
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[13:36] <fsphil> armadillo aerospace get to 42.6km: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNtR5HIL3FM
[13:38] <fsphil> well, 41.9km according to the video
[13:41] <fsphil> hmm.. I spot a big balloon near their landing site
[13:47] <eroomde> i was going to say - we no longer have the monopoly on high altitude fun
[13:48] <eroomde> time for hab to fight back
[13:48] <daveake> To the H2 ...
[13:48] <eroomde> well, rockoons maybe
[13:48] <eroomde> fight fire with fire
[13:48] <daveake> Ed you missed out on being part of my record :p
[13:50] <eroomde> i know!
[13:50] <eroomde> sad
[13:50] <eroomde> i was part of #2 :)
[13:50] <eroomde> that'll do for now
[13:50] <daveake> :)
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[14:03] <fsphil> looking forward to the explosive followup daveake
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[14:04] <daveake> lol
[14:05] <daveake> I have safety glasses. Will they help?
[14:06] <fsphil> maybe
[14:06] <fsphil> I'd recommend some head gear
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[14:11] <fsphil> The risk is only if it mixes with air, and unless you do something really wrong that shouldn't happen
[14:11] <fsphil> beyond the little air that's in the filling tube already
[14:11] <daveake> Yep.
[14:13] <daveake> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-XbjFn3aqE lol
[14:13] <daveake> Not heard the latter one before :)
[14:14] <fsphil> the lower pitch one?
[14:14] <daveake> yeah
[14:15] <fsphil> we did a bit of the HE on saturday
[14:15] <fsphil> didn't work for me!
[14:15] <daveake> :)
[14:15] <Upu> heh
[14:15] <daveake> I overfilled the balloon so tried to suck some out.
[14:15] <daveake> That got old over a couple of sucks :)
[14:19] <daveake> btw DM is back in the orifice. He replied to my email about the weekend.
[14:24] <daveake> http://www.theregister.co.uk/ :)
[14:24] <daveake> Quite a nice write-up :)
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[14:30] <fsphil> nice job
[14:32] <eroomde> nice one daveake !
[14:33] <daveake> Cheers :)
[14:34] <daveake> The local rag will have an article this week too, and between them that's quite enough fame for me :p
[14:35] <eroomde> one of the prettiest payloads i've seen too
[14:35] <fsphil> I got onto southgate arc news, which is great for me :)
[14:36] <daveake> I liked the Buzz1 UFO, but that was difficult to insulate and the transmitter drifted at lightning speed
[14:36] <fsphil> heavy snow forecast this weekend, so very unlikely I'll be launching again this year
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[14:40] <daveake> btw those poly balls are sold at Hobbycraft and on ebay. The larger ones (like mine) are hollow and are made of 2 interlocking halves.
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[14:40] <WillDuckworth> i've just got myself a polystyrene 'wine bottle' container - going to try that next time
[14:41] <fsphil> daveake, was your parachute left danglign?
[14:41] <fsphil> dangling
[14:41] <daveake> No; inline
[14:42] <fsphil> was it open?
[14:42] <fsphil> I'm wondering if it slowed your ascent rate
[14:42] <daveake> Nope
[14:42] <daveake> Prolly not much :p
[14:42] <WillDuckworth> nice little write up on there...
[14:43] <daveake> I thought so. My (limited) experience before with the media is that what happened <> what they write. This guy did very well.
[14:43] <daveake> He was always going to make something out of the "UK - Aussie rivalry" given the previous article
[14:43] <daveake> So I helped him with that :)
[14:44] <costyn> yea fun read on theregister
[14:47] <fsphil> and the beer comment
[14:47] <daveake> :-). I knew he'd run that bit!
[14:47] <fsphil> lol
[14:47] <NigeyS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRCCPYM241E&feature=related
[14:47] <NigeyS> lol
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[14:49] <daveake> Upu - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/12/07/balloon_record/ :)
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[14:50] <Upu> yeah was just reading that
[14:50] <Upu> essop was following the action on the Highaltitude chat forum, and was "particularly supportive, shouting 'burstburstburst!!!' as the flight approached his record
[14:50] <Upu> haha
[14:51] <daveake> I think I may have added the exclamation marks for comic effect :p
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[14:51] <NigeyS> lol
[14:52] <daveake> Just saw the comments lol
[14:53] <NigeyS> Glad to see a balls up that turned out well.
[14:53] <NigeyS> Congrats!
[14:53] <NigeyS> nice and blunt eh lol
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[14:55] <Upu> got it back yet ?
[14:56] <daveake> No, but Peter did send me some nice photos of the box it's in :D
[14:56] <daveake> Should get it in a couple of days or so
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[14:56] <Dutch-Mill> ping Upu what happend with ASTRA ?
[14:56] <Upu> pong Dutch-Mill err
[14:56] <Upu> first ballon burst
[14:57] <Dutch-Mill> too early ?
[14:57] <Upu> it went up on an 800 suspect spinning wildly with a faulty antenna
[14:57] <Upu> and we got 1 packet of data before the signal faded away
[14:57] <daveake> 350g
[14:57] <Upu> not entirely sure what when wrong
[14:57] <Upu> waiting on a debrief
[14:57] <costyn> debrief is in the mail
[14:57] <costyn> somewhat
[14:57] <daveake> There's a post in the mailing list now
[14:57] <Upu> oh we have a mail ?
[14:58] <Upu> thx sorry have it closed
[14:58] <Dutch-Mill> pity...
[14:58] <daveake> yes we do
[14:58] <Matt_soton> hopefully something more concrete to post about it later
[14:59] <Upu> hmm interesting
[14:59] <costyn> Matt_soton: it was a tiny payload rright? no gps/gsm backup tracker?
[14:59] <Matt_soton> no backup
[14:59] <Matt_soton> although it didnt have cameras or anything expensive on
[14:59] <Matt_soton> and it would have probably ended up in france/germany anwyay
[15:00] <Upu> well never mind live and learn
[15:00] <Dutch-Mill> costyn I coudn't hear a thing du to a strong qrm signal @434.077 did you recieved that signal too?
[15:00] <Matt_soton> none of my money, just my (and your) tiem
[15:01] <costyn> Dutch-Mill: I wasn't listening unfortunately ; at work :) but others complained of qrm as well
[15:01] <Upu> 650 is a better frequency, for me anyway
[15:01] <fsphil> the 6.78mhz hf frequency was clear here, up until my radio died anyway
[15:01] <Dutch-Mill> Yes ban .075 ;-)
[15:01] <Upu> wonder if we could get Radiometrix to make some custom modules that are off 075 / 650 frequencies
[15:01] <fsphil> or possibly my hf antenna blew down in the gales
[15:02] <Matt_soton> well the interference on .075 didnt explain why it failed
[15:02] <daveake> I think they did quote someone for doing 20 specials, ISTR
[15:02] <Matt_soton> 6.78 on the other hand
[15:02] <Upu> no lack of antenna would explain that
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[15:03] <Upu> interesting any idea who and how much daveake ?
[15:03] <fsphil> reminds me of the arrisat-1 launch :)
[15:03] <daveake> No, sorry.
[15:04] <NigeyS> Upu, might be worth giving Rosemary a ring
[15:04] <Upu> Aye
[15:04] <daveake> That's going a bit far for a first date :p
[15:04] <Upu> Ken shouts at me when I mail them
[15:04] <NigeyS> lol
[15:06] <Upu> bot doesn't pick up on Tweets any more ?
[15:06] <fsphil> hasn't for a while now :(
[15:07] <priyesh> or emails :(
[15:07] <NigeyS> he's awol again
[15:09] <daveake> Blimey my site is running like a dog. Damn Register!
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[15:15] <costyn> daveake: you've been slashdotted!
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[15:16] <fsphil> well, registereded
[15:16] <daveake> Yep. Not slashdotted. Sounds painful.
[15:17] <priyesh> apex were slashdotted and hackadayed after alpha
[15:17] <priyesh> wasn't as bad as we were preparing for
[15:17] <priyesh> we survived :)
[15:17] <daveake> :)
[15:18] <priyesh> daveake: if you have some sort of live analytics, watch the map, it's awesome seeing visitors popping up on the map like mad
[15:18] <fsphil> I did get an isdn line slashdotted once, it held up pretty good
[15:18] <daveake> If I could log into my server I would :D
[15:18] <costyn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slashdot_effect source traffic can come from any site according to wikipedia (so it must be right!) :P
[15:18] <fsphil> though it was only hosting a single picture
[15:18] <daveake> Prolly the wordpress is killing it
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[15:21] <fsphil> If I launched a meganut payload this weekend and it got the record, would that be like giving it back to Darkside? (he designed the board) :)
[15:22] <daveake> No more than Ed releasing Darkside's balloon made it a a UK-owned record :p
[15:22] <number10> and the gas from CUSF
[15:23] <number10> and the GPS
[15:23] <fsphil> haha, good point
[15:23] <number10> and he didnt bother tracking it - tread on that megant fsphil
[15:23] <number10> meganut
[15:24] <daveake> Plus he was drinking English beer.
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[15:24] <edmoore> Ed's balloon, Darkside's payload
[15:24] <fsphil> yikes, surprised they let him back into australia
[15:24] <edmoore> it was a cusf donation to darkside
[15:26] <fsphil> so we just have to beat the US now
[15:26] <daveake> Yep
[15:27] <eroomde> i wonder how best
[15:27] <fsphil> bigger balloons don't seem to work
[15:27] <daveake> 1600g @ 5m/s with H2
[15:27] <eroomde> i think a bit more atmosphericology (not a word) needed
[15:27] <eroomde> oh was it H2?
[15:27] <fsphil> yea
[15:28] <eroomde> because i think the balloons that have got up that high are all bursting at bout the same pressure
[15:28] <daveake> Not for me ... that's what I'm suggesting the break the USA record
[15:28] <eroomde> but the height above sea level of that pressure will be dependant on a lot of things
[15:28] <eroomde> latitude, solar activity, etc
[15:28] <fsphil> the US records was with an H2 filled 1600g balloon
[15:28] <eroomde> that's probably the next incrememntal step
[15:28] <daveake> OK, thought you were saying mine was :)
[15:29] <daveake> 1600g seems to be a sweet spot with the Hoowowowyees
[15:29] <costyn> how hard is it to obtain those volumes of H2?
[15:29] <fsphil> I'm going to ask my local BOC dealer this week :)
[15:29] <costyn> do you need to fill out forms and show proofs of good behaviour from the police?
[15:30] <fsphil> doubt it
[15:31] <nick_> H2 isn't really dangerous unless you are stupid. All the modern blimps/airships use it.
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[15:33] <daveake> Quote on The Register ... "Lester, this is what LOHAN needs to aim for, innit?" LOL
[15:33] <fsphil> haha
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[15:40] <daveake> Server seems happy now, but not before someone posted "I think his website, like the balloon, has burst."
[15:40] <daveake> lol
[15:41] <fsphil> people are cruel :)
[15:41] <daveake> :). That one's OK, but as for this one .... "Large baloon, small payload" - genius how did he think of that."
[15:41] <NigeyS> lol
[15:41] <daveake> Well I can spell balloon for a start :D
[15:42] <NigeyS> some people think this hobby is as simple as balloon + box + helium = win
[15:43] <nick_> How frequently do people launch in the UK?
[15:43] <daveake> I usually tell people "anyone can launch a balloon; it's the getting it back that's tricky". But after this morning's first attempt ... :p
[15:43] <nick_> I might be able to get hold of a radio receiver, so I'd be interested to know how often I could try to track a balloon.
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[15:44] <fsphil> quite a few this year nick_, busiest year so far I think
[15:44] <NigeyS> Congratulations on the altitude record though. As for the successful invasion of Belgium...who *hasn't* invaded Belgium? ;-)
[15:44] Action: NigeyS chuckles
[15:44] <daveake> :D
[15:44] <fsphil> Buzz got deported though
[15:45] <NigeyS> yeah, he failed to pass through passport control! tut
[15:45] <fsphil> he was apparently an illegal alien
[15:45] <daveake> nick_ according to http://www.ukhas.org.uk/projects:launch_list there have been 27 so far this year
[15:45] <daveake> I nearly failed through with the aerials and tracking kit :)
[15:45] <daveake> s/through/too
[15:46] <number10> you should have looked a bit more suspicious - being detained and arrested by customs would have made the story much more interesting
[15:46] <fsphil> I failed big time with the batteries -- both my phone and laptop where flat
[15:46] <daveake> I'm paranoid about that ... I usually take a car charge *and* mains charger for each, plus an inverter
[15:46] <daveake> And spare batteries
[15:47] <fsphil> I had none of those things. *mental note*
[15:47] <daveake> :)
[15:47] <costyn> hmm inverter is a good idea for powering laptop in car
[15:47] Action: nick_ wonders why the habhub path predictor doesn't accept launches in the recent past.
[15:48] <nick_> Do the people that launch from Cambridge always land in mainland europe?
[15:48] <NigeyS> mostly they just feed the sea monsters
[15:48] <costyn> NigeyS: haha
[15:48] <NigeyS> ;)
[15:49] <NigeyS> theyre very greedy ya know
[15:49] <fsphil> most launches will find solid ground in England, as long as they're careful with the predictor
[15:49] <NigeyS> i just feed the sheep :|
[15:49] <fsphil> Launches from Camrbdige that is
[15:49] <fsphil> Cambridge too
[15:49] <costyn> one day when I launch I might try to cross the channel the other way... cut down over mainland UK and have one of you lot pick it up
[15:50] <nick_> fsphil: I keep chekcing the predictor from Oxford and seem to overshoot the UK
[15:50] <nick_> Although I've only been checking for a few days, is it just super windy right now?
[15:51] <costyn> nick_: yes, very windty the last week
[15:51] <nick_> Is that a winter issue, or just random?
[15:51] <daveake> My first launch was in July; that only just cross the border from Berks to Oxfordshire. 20 miles direct.
[15:51] <nick_> daveake: what height did it reach?
[15:52] <daveake> About 29km
[15:52] <nick_> cool.
[15:52] <daveake> It went east then turned back on the way up.
[15:52] <fsphil> nick_, it's just the time of year
[15:52] <costyn> nick_: I think it's a winter thing yea
[15:52] <nick_> So I shouldn't be worried based on the wind right now?
[15:52] <fsphil> nope
[15:52] <nick_> So generally spring/summer is less windy?
[15:52] <fsphil> most of the time you'll land within 100km
[15:52] <fsphil> not always
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[15:52] <fsphil> it's weather, it's really quite difficult to predict
[15:52] <fsphil> beyond a few days anyway
[15:53] <nick_> But there are some aspects of the weather I can predict on a seasonal scale...
[15:53] <costyn> nick_: I'm sure there will be calm days during the winter
[15:53] <fsphil> there where weekends as windy as this in the summer too
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[15:55] <costyn> nick_: otherwise if you make it to mainland europe you can have one of us Europeens pick it up for you (disclaimer: that is if it doesn't land in east germany or further) :)
[15:55] <daveake> nick_ If it wasn't for the wind I'd be doing photographic launches. When there's a risk of losing in the sea I'd rather use a small/cheap payload with no expensive cameras. I've lost one expensive one to the North Sea Gods and I don't want to lsoe another :)
[15:55] <nick_> Well, my very grand plan would be to try and do a few launches over a week or so.
[15:55] <daveake> And for a launch from UK to Europe you're doing well to get there before it lands. I tried and failed, though I'm sure it's possible.
[15:56] <nick_> Hopefully reflying the same payload.
[15:56] <nick_> So getting it back and forth from EU is not such a grand idea.
[15:56] <costyn> nick_: no logisticswise it's easier to chase it yourself of course
[15:57] <daveake> Flying and landing in the UK happens a lot; you just need favourable winds. Having a launch site to the west helps a lot.
[15:57] <nick_> Yeah, I was thinking wales might be a good site
[15:57] <nick_> Although there'd be some logistical problems.
[15:58] <daveake> From Berks or Oxford there's a nice large area to aim at. Even though it is possible to miss :D
[15:58] <nick_> Alternatively just aborting the lanch early might be possible.
[15:58] <nick_> aborting the flight early I mean
[15:58] <daveake> You should know 2-3 days in advance what choices you have for the flight.
[15:59] <daveake> Yes, a cutdown can get it back on land before it's too late
[15:59] <nick_> Depending on how high I'd like to go and how expensive my payload would be that might be what I do anyway.
[16:00] <costyn> what's the most reliable cutdown these days... nichrome wire still?
[16:02] <daveake> Dunno. I've used nichrome and it worked, though the tigger only kicked in when it was in the back of the car after landing :p. Some people use pyros.
[16:02] <andrew_apex> costyn: it uses a lot of power and won't work if you have really long (say 30m) wires conencting it to the battery
[16:02] <andrew_apex> pyros are good as they only need a little power
[16:03] <daveake> My arrangement had the cutdown inside the payload, using a loop of string up through a loop under the balloon then back down to the top of the chute
[16:03] <andrew_apex> daveake: that's really clever - solves a lot of issues! (and many meters of wire :P)
[16:03] <nick_> I think getting above 15km would make me very happy for the experiment I'd most like to do.
[16:03] <costyn> daveake: that is clever
[16:03] <daveake> Took me weeks to come up with it :p. I knew there was a solution somewhere ....
[16:03] <costyn> ehe
[16:05] <nick_> Assuming I can get some cash to make my experiment and/or the balloon equipment.
[16:05] <andrew_apex> daveake: so there were three bits of string coming out the top of the payload?
[16:05] <andrew_apex> or two :S?
[16:05] <daveake> It didn't trigger during the flight becauise, for safety, the code didn't trigger on descent unless the payload had already achieved 38km, which I fully expected it to do but it burst below that.
[16:05] <daveake> 2
[16:05] <daveake> I'll draw it.
[16:06] <andrew_apex> so just 1 parachute 1 balloon?
[16:06] <andrew_apex> i think I've got it :P but I'll wait for your drawing
[16:06] <daveake> I also had a 4-hour-flight trigger, which didn't cancel on landing. So we were in the car stuffing our faces when I heard the payload bleeping (which it did on startup). The cutdown current rebooted the processor!
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[16:07] <andrew_apex> doesn't surprise me!
[16:07] <nick_> Does anyone know of a website that can give me high altitude wind data?
[16:07] <fsphil> "What's that nylon cord burning-kinda smell?"
[16:09] <daveake> :)
[16:09] <daveake> I only knew for sure when I noticed that the nylon was cut, but in the photos after landing it was intact.
[16:14] <fsphil> I regret not having one on saturday
[16:14] <fsphil> although some of the best pics came after it past the point of no return :)
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[16:17] Action: costyn is going home now... ttyl!
[16:18] <fsphil> laters!
[16:22] <daveake> I should patent this lol http://imgur.com/tTE1G
[16:22] <daveake> I can draw really, but not with a mouse!
[16:24] <Laurenceb> wont work
[16:25] <Laurenceb> it can tangle
[16:25] <daveake> So can wires
[16:25] <andrew_apex> 30m wires won't work at all - this has a higher chance of working :P
[16:25] <Laurenceb> http://ukhas.org.uk/_media/projects:mihab:p8150058.jpg?cache=
[16:26] <andrew_apex> is that a sun umbrella :D?
[16:27] <Laurenceb> that worked for me
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[16:32] <daveake> Last comment lol http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/1/2011/12/07/balloon_record/
[16:34] <daveake> Laurenceb Did you find the payload oscialetd back and forth a lot on the way down?
[16:34] <daveake> oscillated
[16:39] <fsphil> I'm interested in these oscillations the balloons have when they reach certain altitudes
[16:39] <Laurenceb> didnt have enough data
[16:40] <Laurenceb> ive only launched 3 regular balloons
[16:40] <Laurenceb> launched a glider and a couple of rogallo wings after that
[16:45] <daveake> My first flight had a short length from chute to payload, and that bounced back and forth like a yoyo. Didn't quietn down till it got below cloud level.
[16:52] <Martin100> Has anyone published guidelines on how much separation there should be between balloon, chute and payload?
[16:53] <andrew_apex> On apex we usually do 40m between balloon and payload
[16:53] <andrew_apex> And 2/3 of that payload - chute and 1/3 chute - balloon
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[16:57] <Martin100> Wow, that is long, a bit longer than I thought! Were those lengths derived by experience? I presume different size balloons and payload mass will have different damping characteristics?
[16:59] <andrew_apex> You can't really have too long. In theory a lighter payload can be shorter, but we tend to just use 40m for all our launches
[16:59] <andrew_apex> you want the oscillation period to be longer than a radio transmission
[16:59] <andrew_apex> to stop doppler effect on the radio
[17:01] <andrew_apex> 40 meters in theory gives a 12 second period
[17:01] <Martin100> Is that the swinging of the payload, a pendulum?
[17:01] <andrew_apex> yup
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[17:03] <Martin100> So what is the limit on the packet time, a couple of seconds ?
[17:03] <andrew_apex> Depending on the baud rate, but a couple of seconds is about right. A longer string tends to also stop it spinning as fast
[17:05] <Martin100> Many thanks, useful info there on something I didn't know was critical from a comms point of view!!
[17:05] <andrew_apex> Neither did we until our second launch!
[17:05] <Dan-K2VOL> Actually longer rope increases statistical airstrike danger
[17:07] <Dan-K2VOL> one of the calculations for balloon-aircraft collision risk assesment is the amount of time your balloon system is at the same altitude as part of the aircraft
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[17:08] <Martin100> I was hoping that 50 baud would be good from a robustness point of view but its difficult to get a decent sized packet accommodated in 2 seconds
[17:09] <NigeyS> hrm anyone have access to the Wiley online library ?
[17:10] <andrew_apex> Martin100: We use both 300 baud (for tracking while moving) and 50 baud (for better signal). Both are handy - and both have their own advantages and disadvantages
[17:11] <Martin100> Alternating packets or two transmitters?
[17:11] <andrew_apex> alternating
[17:11] <Dan-K2VOL> so basically while climbing up at 4m/s, with a statistical 8m tall aircraft crusing level at 10km altitude, your 40m long rope will be a collision risk for 10 seconds, compared to a 10m long rope which would be a collision risk for only 2.5 seconds
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[17:13] <Martin100> Can dl-fldigi cope with that or do you need two computers?
[17:13] <andrew_apex> you just pick one to decode, and if that starts having issues switch to the other
[17:13] <andrew_apex> eg one flight we had a lot of temperature drift, so 300 baud was better as it was drifting less during the packet
[17:14] <Dan-K2VOL> so andrew_apex, you might want to have shorter than a 40m rope for aviation safety
[17:14] <andrew_apex> but when the signal starts getting weak, switch to 50 baud
[17:14] <andrew_apex> Dan-K2VOL: the probability of there being a plane within 500 meters of it at any point is very, very slight
[17:15] <andrew_apex> it's true a longer string increases collision risk - mut maybe from 0.001% to 0.002%
[17:15] <Martin100> >Dan-K2VOL It's a big, big sky, lots of room for both balloons and planes :)
[17:16] <Dan-K2VOL> And amateurs should be doing nothing to increase risk when we're trying to figure out how to get insured :-)
[17:17] <Martin100> David Gunson once said the function of an air traffic controller was to bunch all the planes up into a small bit of the sky and then work out how to stop them colliding
[17:17] <Dan-K2VOL> Actually there's an academic paper that was published that nicely defined a formula for calculating actual risk of collision
[17:17] <Dan-K2VOL> amateurs can make decisions that result in the risk going up severely, so don't just rely on the "big sky"
[17:17] <Dan-K2VOL> for example, what if you decided to do a floater?
[17:18] <andrew_apex> floaters tend to be much higher than commercial planes fly at
[17:18] <Martin100> David Gunson (3 parts) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8VMjMQDCR8
[17:18] <Dan-K2VOL> do they?
[17:18] <andrew_apex> when Apex Alpha was floating it was at 36km+
[17:19] <Dan-K2VOL> not if amateurs are using zero pressure or superpressure balloons, those typically float around 10-15km
[17:19] <Dan-K2VOL> Spirit of Knoxville floated at 12km, and White star this winter is floating at 10km
[17:19] <andrew_apex> I'm only knowledgeable about latex. Apex alpha's altitude graph: http://gallery.apexhab.org/var/resizes/Apex-Alpha/Launch-1/Graphs-and-Tracks/graph-altitude.jpg?m=1319385937
[17:21] <Dan-K2VOL> yes, there's no risk of collision for a float above 20km
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[17:22] <Dan-K2VOL> but my point is that amateur balloons can and do generate serious risk, the sky is not so big when you sit at the same altitude as all the passenger jets and creep through the narrow lanes they densely follow
[17:23] <Dan-K2VOL> was it a chinese balloon on Apex?
[17:24] <andrew_apex> yup - a Hyogweeqeewee
[17:24] <andrew_apex> or however you spell it
[17:24] <Dan-K2VOL> hehe, meteorologists must hate those, as they like to have some chance of getting their radiosondes back
[17:25] <Dan-K2VOL> they seem to be very resistant to burst
[17:27] <Dan-K2VOL> how heavy was the paylaod
[17:28] <andrew_apex> about 150g, with a 2000g balloon (very underfilled)
[17:28] <Dan-K2VOL> nice and tiny
[17:33] <danielsaul> Back
[17:33] <danielsaul> priyesh: Why couldnt you logoff my ssh and go onto yours earlier...?
[17:33] <danielsaul> And wrong channel - sorry
[17:42] <eroomde> evening
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[17:44] <daveake> evenin'
[17:44] <Zuph> yo
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[17:47] <Dan-K2VOL> hola
[17:47] <eroomde> enchanté
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[18:25] <Moomean> good evening :)
[18:25] <NigeyS> hey Moomean
[18:25] <Moomean> tracker down or no Astra heading for Polish airport? :>
[18:25] <NigeyS> Astra had some issues
[18:26] <Moomean> lost?
[18:27] <Moomean> sorry to hear that
[18:29] <hibby> oh
[18:31] Action: Moomean wondering how to combine both baloon and car tracking data on a map
[18:35] <eroomde> it does it already Moomean
[18:35] <Moomean> eroomde: not that simple
[18:35] <Moomean> I have unsent tracking data to your tracker
[18:36] <Moomean> and garmin gps files
[18:36] <Moomean> and some errors due to crappy Gms-u1LP gps module
[18:36] <Moomean> :/
[18:37] <Moomean> http://www.gpsvisualizer.com any good?
[18:54] <Dan-K2VOL> oh yes it is
[18:54] <Dan-K2VOL> love gpsvisualizer.com
[18:59] <Martin100> >Dan-K2VOL - re your comment a couple of hours ago, have you a link or reference to the academic paper on calculating the risk of collision?
[19:01] <Dan-K2VOL> Martin100, I will look it up, I do somewhere. At work now so it may be a few hours, I"ll post it to the UKHAS list if you're not on then, do you get the UKHAS email list?
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[19:03] <Martin100> Yes I do. I'm sure lots will be interested and it might help on the insurance side that we ultimately can't ignore!
[19:05] <Upu> Don't worry Martin100 the insurance companies will ignore it on our behalf
[19:05] <Upu> I've just about drawn a blank on insurance, no one will even quote
[19:06] <Upu> brb need a reboot
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[19:17] <NigeyS> evening James
[19:17] <jcoxon> hey
[19:17] <jcoxon> what happened today at the launch from duxford/
[19:17] <jcoxon> ?
[19:18] <daveake> Balloon 1 burst after inflation
[19:18] <Matt_soton> i would like to know too jcoxon :P
[19:18] <daveake> :D
[19:18] <jcoxon> oh dears
[19:18] <jcoxon> never easy launch from a far
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[19:19] <Matt_soton> so i dont know whether the 6.78M txr had its antenna hanging down correctly, whether the lack of a dipole was the reason no-one heard it, or whether it was the interference that we had, which is a shame
[19:20] <jcoxon> Matt_soton, have to try again!
[19:21] <Matt_soton> indeed, might try 27.12 instead tho
[19:21] <Matt_soton> there was alot less interference on that and
[19:21] <jcoxon> thats used by rc stuff isn't it
[19:21] <jcoxon> ?
[19:21] <Matt_soton> yea
[19:21] <andrew_apex> and CB
[19:21] <jcoxon> is it airborne allowed?
[19:21] <Matt_soton> there is a ism band there
[19:22] <andrew_apex> 10mW max
[19:23] <jcoxon> 42 dB?A/m @ 10 m
[19:23] <Matt_soton> indeed
[19:23] <Matt_soton> the ir2030 document says both units
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[19:24] <Matt_soton> however 27.12 isnt in one of the channels for model control
[19:25] <Matt_soton> alternatively why cant we decide the balloon fits under hte model control catogory
[19:25] <Matt_soton> although not allowed for airborne
[19:25] <Matt_soton> actually one channel can be
[19:28] <Matt_soton> acutally theres a list of 27.12 MHz channels that can be used airborne @ 100mW
[19:29] <jcoxon> Matt_soton, for what though?
[19:30] <Matt_soton> model control
[19:31] <jcoxon> hmm
[19:31] <jcoxon> surely thats uplink
[19:31] <Matt_soton> so providing the cusf auto rotator is out, then the balloon is remote controlling it :P
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[19:32] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:34] <Matt_soton> i suppose operating under 'model control' maybe pusing it
[19:35] <Lunar_Lander> is the Astra balloon flying or is that a simulation?
[19:37] <Moomean> Dan-K2VOL: thx, checking it out
[19:37] <Moomean> someone in power could change channel topic to Astra info ;)
[19:38] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jcoxon' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[19:38] Topic changed on #highaltitude by jcoxon!jcoxon@84.93.173.36: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders etc) www.ukhas.org.uk
[19:38] <SpeedEvil> Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu.
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[19:38] <SpeedEvil> I just noticed the weatehr for tomorrow.
[19:39] <fsphil> snow here
[19:39] <fsphil> and wind
[19:39] <fsphil> bad combination
[19:39] <SpeedEvil> I now have to go outside, and spend a couple of hours fixing the shed roof on.
[19:39] <SpeedEvil> Properly.
[19:40] <SpeedEvil> http://www.yr.no/place/United_Kingdom/Scotland/Glenrothes/hour_by_hour.html
[19:40] <SpeedEvil> No actual snow however.
[19:41] <fsphil> yea the snow forecast has changed, just lots of rain now
[19:41] <Matt_soton> apparently 2275Hz is lisence free if anyone wanted to make a transmitter...
[19:41] <SpeedEvil> :)
[19:41] <fsphil> loooooong wave? :)
[19:42] <SpeedEvil> Well...
[19:42] <Matt_soton> a few more ooooooooooooos i think
[19:42] Action: SpeedEvil notes that 32km is a quarter-wave of 2275Hz.
[19:42] <Dan-K2VOL> oh well you do have room for the antenna
[19:42] <Dan-K2VOL> don't think you'll be able to make the ground plane wires straight out though
[19:43] <fsphil> use the ocean :)
[19:43] <SpeedEvil> Transmitter halfway up, eighth wave is quite a reasonable dipole.
[19:43] <Lunar_Lander> xD!
[19:43] <fsphil> is that other strong signal still on 6.78?
[19:43] <fsphil> mhz
[19:43] <LazyLeopard> Hmmm... Tomorrow looks like an interesting day for antennas, trees, roofs, and other things up high... :/
[19:44] <fsphil> yea, and I just put my HF vert back up last night
[19:44] <fsphil> typical :)
[19:44] <Matt_soton> its a shame i dont actually have a HF radio + antenna, i could have found that out before making a radio for 6.78
[19:44] <Dan-K2VOL> anyone know which server the CUSF predictor downloads the GFS files from
[19:44] <fsphil> it's still clear here
[19:44] <fsphil> wish the battery hadn't ran out
[19:46] <fsphil> no wait, I can hear it in the noise
[19:46] <fsphil> that military digital mode
[19:46] <Matt_soton> for a moment there i thought u could hear the balloon :P
[19:47] Action: SpeedEvil puts on long-johns, track-suit-bottoms, jeans, t-shirt, vest, jumper, cardigan, fleece, coat, 2 pairs of socks, and gloves.
[19:47] <SpeedEvil> And if DX had delivered my head-torch, that'd be really handy.
[19:47] <SpeedEvil> Meh
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[19:56] <Upu> Dan-K2VOL just checking the script spacenear.us uses
[19:56] <Upu> output.write('3\n') # FIXME: HARDCODED!
[19:56] <Upu> "lol"
[19:57] <Dan-K2VOL> ha
[19:57] <Upu> url_format = 'http://nomads.ncep.noaa.gov:9090/dods/gfs_hd/gfs_hd%i%02i%02i/gfs_hd_%02iz'
[19:58] <Dan-K2VOL> ok, cool. the HYSPLIT source for GFS HD (0.5 degree) files is down right now, and the hysplit webmaster basically just told me that it just happens sometimes, and it should be back up within a week. !!!
[19:58] <Dan-K2VOL> which is not the same server as that
[19:59] <Dan-K2VOL> (I think that GFS HD refers to the 0.5 degree resolution, but I could be wrong)
[20:01] <Upu> you got mail Dan-K2VOL
[20:02] <Dan-K2VOL> ooh nice thanks upu
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[20:18] <Lunar_Lander> hi Upu fsphil Dan-K2VOL SpeedEvil Matt_soton
[20:19] <fsphil-laptop> hullo sir.lander
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[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> how are you fsphil-laptop?
[20:21] <daveake> evening LL
[20:23] <fsphil-laptop> well here Lunar_Lander, you?
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> hi daveake
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> I'm OK as well
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> despite for the rain
[20:25] <fsphil-laptop> move here
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> and the graupel
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> and the hail
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> yeah good idea
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[20:25] <fsphil-laptop> lots of rain here
[20:28] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[20:44] <Paradoxial> It's raining like crazy here too
[20:44] <Paradoxial> We might get some snow later today
[20:50] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[21:30] <fsphil-laptop> urg, why did I eat the cake
[21:31] <NigeyS> cake!!!!
[21:31] Action: fsphil-laptop needs to go on a diet
[21:32] <daveake> Send the cake to me. I'll take the hit for you
[21:32] <daveake> But not if you've eaten it first
[21:33] <fsphil-laptop> too late
[21:44] <snelly> ping stilldavid
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[22:01] <stilldavid> hiya snelly
[22:01] <stilldavid> good to see you 'round here :)
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> hey stilldavid
[22:01] <stilldavid> hi Lunar_Lander
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[22:08] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
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[00:00] --- Thu Dec 8 2011