highaltitude.log.20111206

[00:00] <nick_> Are there flight path records that I can access?
[00:02] <snelly> for what?
[00:03] <nick_> For people's balloon flights.
[00:03] <snelly> sure
[00:03] <snelly> google wb8elk
[00:04] <snelly> that's just one of many
[00:06] <snelly> nick, i heard you talking earlier about a tracker
[00:06] <snelly> getting your ham ticket and using APRS is the way to go
[00:07] <nick_> What is APRS?
[00:07] <snelly> it's a tracking system that uses ham radio
[00:07] <nick_> Do I need a license to use the kind of radio people linked me to earlier?
[00:07] <snelly> you have a little device in your balloon/car/house/whatever that has a gps and a radio
[00:08] <nick_> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/YAESU-FT-790R-/190610023538?pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_SpecialistRadioEquipment_SM&hash=item2c613e2472 for example.
[00:08] <snelly> it beacons out your current location (and optionally, other data) and that beacon is picked up by other stations and put onto the internet
[00:08] <nick_> Or is the license only for other frequencies?
[00:08] <snelly> i don't know what radio you were talking about earlier but for APRS, you need a ham license
[00:08] <snelly> nick, are you in the USA?
[00:09] <nick_> No, the UK
[00:10] <snelly> dunno what's involved in getting licensed over there but it shouldn't be too hard
[00:10] <nick_> Yeah, I think I could have gotten a license before.
[00:10] <nick_> I used to use radios a little in the army.
[00:11] <snelly> i still use radios in the army :)
[00:11] <snelly> nick_: http://www.rsgb.org/arls/
[00:11] <snelly> too easy.
[00:11] MoALTz (~no@host-92-18-68-249.as13285.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[00:11] <nick_> So if I broadcast the gps position and a small data load then the world will track it for me?
[00:12] <snelly> you can track it
[00:12] <snelly> http://aprs.fi
[00:13] <nick_> How is this different from me just transmitting the position to myself?
[00:13] <snelly> APRS is much more robust
[00:14] <snelly> when you transmit over APRS, other stations (called digipeaters) hear your transmission and repeat it to a wider audience
[00:14] <snelly> other stations (called iGates) hear that transmission and put it on the internet so you can track it
[00:14] <snelly> if you don't use APRS, your only hope in recovering your payload is if you can directly hear your balloon on the air (which may or may not happen)
[00:15] <snelly> with APRS, all it has to do is hit a digipeater and you'll be able to track it
[00:18] <LazyLeopard> Can't use APRS to track a balloon in the UK without breaching licence conditions.
[00:18] <snelly> oh wow
[00:18] <snelly> that's totally lame
[00:18] <Randomskk> snelly: but anyway we have a ton of listeners on 434MHz
[00:19] <Randomskk> so even if you can't hear it yourself, someone else often can
[00:19] <Randomskk> nick_: basically yes, broadcast the position using the standard protocol and format we all use, set it on up the tracker system and probably a ton of people will listen to it for you
[00:21] <nick_> OK, so I need to be listening, but everyone passes info onto other people?
[00:21] <Randomskk> ideally you would be listening
[00:21] <nick_> Oh, so I can't do it.
[00:21] <Randomskk> you're the only person you can be sure will be listening :P
[00:22] <Randomskk> but then we have a system whereby everyone listening uploads the data they got to a central server
[00:22] <LazyLeopard> UK amateur licence forbids airbourne transmitters using amateur callsigns. However, there are licence-exempt devices that use spot frequencies and very low powers, and quite a few folk prepared to listen in (if you give them enough warning) ;)
[00:22] <Randomskk> http://spacenear.us/tracker/ then shows the tracks they took
[00:22] <nick_> Listening in just means listening to the right frequency and leaving your computer running?
[00:23] <Randomskk> mostly
[00:23] <nick_> OK
[00:23] <LazyLeopard> Sometimes "Oh, hey! I've just launched..." even gets folks tracking. ;)
[00:23] <Randomskk> you do sometimes have to change frequency if the payload drifts
[00:23] <nick_> Do they just tell their computer to log messages from a given call sign or something?
[00:24] <LazyLeopard> Depends a bit on how much trouble you've taken to keep the transmissions at a rock rteady frequency and shift. ;)
[00:24] <NigeyS> eugh brain dead what's 15mm in inches ?
[00:24] <Randomskk> .6"
[00:24] <LazyLeopard> about 2/3 of an inch.
[00:24] <Randomskk> ?g 15mm+in+inches
[00:24] <Randomskk> not sure if works
[00:24] <NigeyS> thankoo
[00:25] <nick_> Are the things on spacenear.us up at the moment or just recently?
[00:25] <Randomskk> apparently not. silly zeusbot :(
[00:25] <Randomskk> nick_: just recently
[00:25] <NigeyS> Randomskk, www.nigey.co.uk/SatPanel1.png
[00:25] <NigeyS> getting there..slowly...
[00:25] <Randomskk> nice :D
[00:25] <Randomskk> right, bedtime
[00:25] <NigeyS> night dude
[00:25] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[00:25] <Lunar_Lander> hey NigeyS
[00:26] <NigeyS> hey kev
[00:26] <nick_> What are the tower symbols?
[00:26] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
[00:26] <LazyLeopard> Listeners
[00:26] <nick_> How many people listen in when there are launches?
[00:26] <LazyLeopard> Click on them and they'll say a bit about them.
[00:27] <SpeedEvil> nick_: between four and about a dozen typically.
[00:28] <LazyLeopard> I think on occasion we've had more than a dozen all receiving and uploading lines for a single payload at high altitude.
[00:28] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[00:28] <SpeedEvil> Once it gets to ~30km - the majority of the country can recieve it.
[00:29] <LazyLeopard> At lower altitude fewer stations will be in range, and if the antenna on the payload gets wrapped in cord then bets are off... ;)
[00:29] <Lunar_Lander> the biggest tracking effort to date was Apex Alpha I think
[00:30] <nick_> Do people all trasmit in the same data format or somethign?
[00:30] <SpeedEvil> sort-of
[00:30] <SpeedEvil> It's somewhat variable
[00:31] <LazyLeopard> There is an agreed basic form, with some flexibility...
[00:31] <nick_> Cool.
[00:31] <nick_> Thanks for the information, I need to go to bed now, but I'll be back soonish I hope.
[00:31] <LazyLeopard> I expect there are some details on the wiki
[00:32] <nick_> Although, one last question.
[00:32] <nick_> Do these logging people have relatively cheap radio setups?
[00:32] <LazyLeopard> ...which would be worth reading. ;)
[00:32] <nick_> Or, is it possible with relatively cheap radio?
[00:32] <nick_> (If so I might be able to set one up on top of a tower in Oxford)
[00:32] <LazyLeopard> It needs to be capable of SSB reception.
[00:33] <LazyLeopard> ...and a good antenna also helps lots.
[00:33] <nick_> Good means big?
[00:33] <Darkside> and you need to re-tune it throughout the flights
[00:33] <Darkside> nick_: a high gain antebna doesnt always help
[00:34] <Darkside> as you need an antenma with a roughly hemispherical radiation pattern
[00:34] <LazyLeopard> Good means "relatively selective" and "appropriately orientated" ;)
[00:35] <Darkside> when its very far away, then a high gain antenna helps
[00:35] <LazyLeopard> That could mean a decent colinear nice and high up, or a yagi on a rotator, or a whip on the roof of the chase car. ;)
[00:36] <nick_> OK
[00:36] <nick_> I need to sleep, I'll be back later,
[00:36] <nick_> Thanks again.
[00:36] nick_ (~nick_@client-80-5-29-182.cht-bng-013.adsl.virginmedia.net) left irc: Quit: sleep
[00:37] <LazyLeopard> Oh dear. Is that the time? Bed calls... G'night.
[00:43] <NigeyS> hrm whats them bits called that make the thread for screws in metal ? Die aint it ?
[00:44] <LazyLeopard> Tap
[00:45] <LazyLeopard> A die makes threads on the screw, a tap cuts the threads in a nut.
[00:45] <natrium42> Dan-K2VOL: got travis on HAD
[00:45] <natrium42> :)
[00:45] <Lunar_Lander> you mean so that you can screw in a screw?
[00:45] <Dan-K2VOL> hey Natrium42 :-)
[00:46] <Dan-K2VOL> awesome!
[00:46] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.demon.co.uk) left irc: Quit: Bye
[00:47] <NigeyS> ahh was close..lol
[00:51] <NigeyS> Lunar_Lander, yup
[00:52] <Lunar_Lander> NigeyS: just thinking about the HIH-4030 humidity sensor from Honeywell
[00:52] <Lunar_Lander> some say you need a 80k pullup
[00:52] <Lunar_Lander> but the datasheet doesn't say that for instance
[00:53] <NigeyS> not used it, id double check the datasheet, or see if anyone here has used it with / without the pullup
[00:54] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[01:07] Dan-K2VOL (~Dan-K2VOL@69.64.6.70) left irc: Quit: Leaving.
[01:08] Dan-K2VOL (~Dan-K2VOL@69.64.6.70) joined #highaltitude.
[01:16] <Lunar_Lander> good night!
[01:18] Lunar_Lander (~kevingd@p54883264.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: Read error: Operation timed out
[01:24] Wil5on (~Wil5on@compsci.adl/eternalpresident/wil5on) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[01:26] DarkCow (~DarkCow@31.185.131.232) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[01:32] wolfspraul (~wolfsprau@221.217.222.136) joined #highaltitude.
[01:33] Jasperw (~jasperw@2001:470:1f08:1caf::2) joined #highaltitude.
[01:35] wolfspraul (~wolfsprau@221.217.222.136) left irc: Client Quit
[01:36] wolfspraul (~wolfsprau@221.217.222.136) joined #highaltitude.
[01:44] NigeyS (~Nigel@cpc5-cdif13-2-0-cust232.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[01:45] Dan-K2VOL (~Dan-K2VOL@69.64.6.70) left irc: Quit: Leaving.
[01:52] jasonb (~jasonb@adsl-66-124-73-251.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[01:54] NigelMoby (~nigel@cpc5-cdif13-2-0-cust232.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[01:54] jasonb (~jasonb@adsl-66-124-73-251.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) joined #highaltitude.
[02:22] <hibby> oooooooooooooh
[02:22] <hibby> that was a lot of pints
[02:36] trn (~trn@adsl-065-007-181-160.sip.bct.bellsouth.net) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[02:43] Dan-K2VOL (~Dan-K2VOL@69.64.6.70) joined #highaltitude.
[02:46] trn (~trn@adsl-065-007-181-160.sip.bct.bellsouth.net) joined #highaltitude.
[03:04] Wil5on (~Wil5on@150.203.220.82) joined #highaltitude.
[03:04] Wil5on (~Wil5on@150.203.220.82) left irc: Changing host
[03:04] Wil5on (~Wil5on@compsci.adl/eternalpresident/wil5on) joined #highaltitude.
[03:13] Paradoxial (~Paradoxia@pool-108-28-22-94.washdc.fios.verizon.net) left irc: Quit: :
[03:27] Dan-K2VOL (~Dan-K2VOL@69.64.6.70) left irc: Quit: Leaving.
[03:39] wolfspraul (~wolfsprau@221.217.222.136) left irc: Quit: leaving
[03:40] jasonb (~jasonb@adsl-66-124-73-251.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[03:47] Wil5on (~Wil5on@compsci.adl/eternalpresident/wil5on) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[03:56] jasonb (~jasonb@adsl-66-124-73-251.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) joined #highaltitude.
[04:08] Dan-K2VOL (~Dan-K2VOL@96-28-234-61.dhcp.insightbb.com) joined #highaltitude.
[04:14] Dan-K2VOL (~Dan-K2VOL@96-28-234-61.dhcp.insightbb.com) left irc: Quit: Leaving.
[04:16] juxta (~juxta@ppp203-122-193-94.static.internode.on.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[04:37] joph_ (~joph@pD95E7B72.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[04:38] <natrium42> what's up geeks, nerds and NigelMoby?
[04:38] joph (~joph@pD95E7652.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 268 seconds
[04:38] Nick change: joph_ -> joph
[04:54] Dan-K2VOL (~Dan-K2VOL@96-28-234-61.dhcp.insightbb.com) joined #highaltitude.
[05:03] wolfspraul (~wolfsprau@222.130.123.99) joined #highaltitude.
[05:13] Dan-K2VOL (~Dan-K2VOL@96-28-234-61.dhcp.insightbb.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[05:13] Dan-K2VOL1 (~Dan-K2VOL@96-28-234-61.dhcp.insightbb.com) joined #highaltitude.
[05:19] Tiger^ (tygrys@moo.pl) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[05:19] Dan-K2VOL1 (Dan-K2VOL@96-28-234-61.dhcp.insightbb.com) left #highaltitude.
[05:37] wolfspraul (~wolfsprau@222.130.123.99) left irc: Quit: leaving
[05:40] wolfspraul (~wolfsprau@mimi.q-ag.de) joined #highaltitude.
[06:05] Tiger^ (tygrys@moo.pl) joined #highaltitude.
[06:23] DrLuke (~Im@p5B15D7D7.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[06:28] DrLuke (~Im@p5B15E48A.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[06:35] Jasperw (~jasperw@2001:470:1f08:1caf::2) left irc: Quit: Leaving.
[06:43] juxta (~juxta@ppp203-122-193-94.static.internode.on.net) joined #highaltitude.
[06:46] gonzo_ (~gonzo_@host-2-99-33-142.as13285.net) joined #highaltitude.
[06:46] <Upu> [04:38] <natrium42> what's up geeks, nerds and NigelMoby?
[06:47] <Upu> no ones up natrium42 it was 04:38 in the morning
[07:13] on4bds (59ca9782@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.202.151.130) joined #highaltitude.
[07:26] number10 (d42c14ce@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.44.20.206) joined #highaltitude.
[07:49] jusis808 (~jusis707@159.148.10.175) left irc: Ping timeout: 244 seconds
[07:49] jusis808 (~jusis707@94.140.127.8) joined #highaltitude.
[07:56] jusis808 (~jusis707@94.140.127.8) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[07:56] jusis808 (~jusis707@159.148.10.175) joined #highaltitude.
[08:15] <wolo> yeah everyone lives in GMT+0
[08:15] <Darkside> i don't
[08:21] Gillerire (~Jamie@182-239-130-68.ip.adam.com.au) joined #highaltitude.
[08:23] nosebleedkt_ (4f8131b1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.129.49.177) joined #highaltitude.
[08:28] earthshine (~Mike@cpc1-orpi1-0-0-cust99.2-3.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[08:31] <earthshine> o/
[08:41] costyn (~costyn@lolcathost.quanza.net) joined #highaltitude.
[08:41] Action: costyn waves
[08:44] daveake (~daveake@daveake.plus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[08:45] <The-Compiler> GMT+1 here ;)
[08:46] <x-f> and GMT+2 here
[08:55] Laurenceb_ (~Laurence@host81-159-190-96.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[09:01] jusis808 (~jusis707@159.148.10.175) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[09:01] jusis808 (~jusis707@94.140.127.5) joined #highaltitude.
[09:03] Laurenceb_ (~Laurence@host81-159-190-96.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[09:05] <on4bds> Hi guys
[09:09] <on4bds> Does anyone have an Eagle footprint for the Falcom FSA03 GPS module?
[09:09] <costyn> on4bds: I think Upu does, or maybe Darkside
[09:10] <Darkside> i don't have either
[09:10] <Darkside> because the FSA's are on their way out i believe
[09:10] <on4bds> @darkside: isn't this your site? http://rfhead.net/?p=382
[09:11] <Darkside> yes it is
[09:11] <Darkside> i'm not using a FSA03 though
[09:11] <on4bds> Ah true, you're using a separate module and antenna
[09:11] <Darkside> yep
[09:11] <Darkside> uBlox NEO-6Q and a Sarantel SL1202RH
[09:11] <on4bds> What voltage regulators are you using?
[09:11] <Darkside> 3.3
[09:12] <Darkside> the gps and micro runs off 3.3v
[09:12] <Darkside> the transmit module is fed battery voltage, so it can dissipate the heat
[09:12] <on4bds> And the transmitter?
[09:12] <eroomde> moaning
[09:12] <Darkside> on4bds: well both the NTX2s and TX1H's can run from 2.8 v up to 12v or so
[09:13] <Darkside> so i figured it'd be better to have the power dissipated in the module than in a 3.3v regulator
[09:13] <on4bds> That's good to know, because it isn't in the datasheet.
[09:13] <daveake> moaning Ed
[09:13] <Darkside> it is somewhere on4bds
[09:13] <Darkside> the HX1 modules, on the other hand, need 5V regulated
[09:13] <Darkside> so i had to add an external regulator to be able to run those
[09:13] <on4bds> Ah, that's why it wasn't there. I'm using the HX1 series as well...
[09:14] <Darkside> aha
[09:14] <Darkside> yes, you need to feed them from 5v
[09:14] <Darkside> but you can use 3.3v logic to the enable pin
[09:14] <on4bds> Guess I'll have to use 2 regulators then. Or maybe I can find a single regulator that has 5V and 3.3V.
[09:14] <Darkside> on4bds: what modulation are you planning on using?
[09:14] <on4bds> FM (APRS)
[09:14] <Darkside> trackuino code?
[09:15] <on4bds> No, OpenTracker on PIC.
[09:15] <Darkside> ok
[09:15] <Darkside> well that works too :P
[09:16] <Darkside> what does the opentracker code output from the PIC? PWM?
[09:16] <on4bds> Sure :-) Although the AVR stuff is getting much more activity then PIC lately, with the Arduino and all.
[09:16] <Darkside> http://code.google.com/p/project-horus/source/browse/#svn%2Ftrunk%2Ftrackuino%253Fstate%253Dclosed <-- our modification of trackuino
[09:16] <Darkside> with support for APRS telemetry packets
[09:16] <on4bds> It uses 3 or 4 pins with a resistor network to make a pseudo-sine
[09:17] <Darkside> ok
[09:17] <Darkside> that should be a bit better
[09:17] <Darkside> just make sure the deviation is right on the output of the HX1
[09:17] <Darkside> theres 2 potentiometers under the sticker on teh HX1, one adjusts the centre frequency, one adjusts the deviation
[09:17] <Darkside> so you can tweak it a bit using that
[09:18] <on4bds> How would one measure the deviation?
[09:18] <Darkside> with a deviation meter
[09:18] <Darkside> hehe
[09:18] <Darkside> we had a proper test unit thing
[09:18] <Darkside> (i didn't do the testing)
[09:19] <on4bds> Or perhaps using the waterfall diagram in the decode software (I am using AGW)?
[09:19] <Darkside> nah i dont think thats the same thing
[09:19] <on4bds> I guess with a 3.3V drive the deviation should be decent.
[09:20] <on4bds> I don't have much experience with homebrewing FM transmitters (that's why I bought the HX1 in the first place :-))
[09:22] <Darkside> yes
[09:22] <Darkside> the 3.3v PWM output from the AVR gave it almost perfec deviation
[09:22] <Darkside> and the internal filter filtered out the PWM frequency too
[09:24] <on4bds> Other question, is there any reason not to fly in winter?
[09:24] <Darkside> where are you?
[09:24] <Darkside> (what country)
[09:30] <on4bds> Belgium.
[09:31] <on4bds> Which means freezing temperatures in winter.
[09:31] <Darkside> heh
[09:31] <Darkside> might make payload recovery a bit painful
[09:33] <on4bds> Nah, it's not that there's a meter of snowcover here in winter.
[09:33] <on4bds> I am worried about the effects of temperature on the balloon though, especially at altitude.
[09:33] <Darkside> well its going to get cold anyway
[09:34] <Darkside> what may be a problem is water getting on the balloon during ascent
[09:34] <Darkside> causing icing
[09:34] <daveake> Which I guess is what happened to Buzz1. Either that or the variability between balloons is enormous
[09:34] <Darkside> between hwoyee balloon smaybe
[09:35] <Darkside> i dont think they have good quality control
[09:35] <daveake> That is what I meant, actully :)
[09:35] <daveake> Nope
[09:36] BrainDamage (BrainDamag@i.love.tiltshellz.org) joined #highaltitude.
[09:36] jusis808 (~jusis707@94.140.127.5) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[09:36] <daveake> Buzz2 and 1 has pretty much the same fill and buzz2 was a bit heavier, yet 2 outperformed 1 by some margin
[09:36] <costyn> on4bds: where in Belgium are you? I'm in NL, there is another HAB team in Belgium, the guys from HO West
[09:36] <daveake> had
[09:37] soafee-chan (~TraumaPon@124-148-45-120.dyn.iinet.net.au) joined #highaltitude.
[09:38] <on4bds> I'm in the region of Dendermonde. Where in NL are you?
[09:39] spacekitteh (~TraumaPon@124-171-224-24.dyn.iinet.net.au) left irc: Ping timeout: 244 seconds
[09:39] Nick change: soafee-chan -> spacekitteh
[09:39] <on4bds> @Darkside: you mean percipitation or condensation?
[09:40] <costyn> on4bds: I'm close the Hague.
[09:40] <Darkside> on4bds: rain
[09:40] <Darkside> so precipitation
[09:40] <earthshine> What GPS modules are being used instead of the FSA03's nowadays?
[09:41] nosebleedkt_ (4f8131b1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.129.49.177) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
[09:41] <on4bds> Easy enough: don't launch in bad weather :-)
[09:42] <Darkside> earthshine: well some of us are switching to custom breakout boards for the uBlox NEO-6Q modules
[09:42] <Darkside> http://rfhead.net/data/uBloxBreakout/breakout_top.JPG
[09:42] <Darkside> like that
[09:42] <earthshine> Is someone selling those?
[09:43] <Darkside> i was going to, but can't now
[09:43] <Darkside> i think Upu might be
[09:43] <earthshine> Is that a board you made yourself?
[09:43] <on4bds> Gotto go guy, see you
[09:43] <Darkside> earthshine: yes
[09:43] <earthshine> I see
[09:44] <Darkside> earthshine: well, PCBs manufactured with seeedstudio
[09:44] <earthshine> What advantage does the NEO-6Q have over the FSA03 ?
[09:44] <Darkside> earthshine: not much difference, ublox 6 has some nicer power save modes
[09:44] <earthshine> i see
[09:45] <costyn> on4bds: I'm using a GPS Bee, has a Neo6 chip as well; i don't have much experience making PCBs so these breakouts are nice
[09:53] plantain (~plantain@compsci.adl/officialtroll/plantain) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[10:03] <fsphil> re: icing -- my balloon got pretty wet before launch in a brief heavy shower - it still got pretty high (33.5km) but the ascent rate was all over the place
[10:03] <fsphil> and it speeded up towards the end
[10:04] <fsphil> I'm wondering if the water froze, and it speeded up as the ice fell away
[10:05] jusis808 (~jusis707@94.140.127.181) joined #highaltitude.
[10:12] <daveake> Mrs Dave told the local rag about Buzz2 so they've been on the phone!
[10:12] <daveake> Fame at last lol
[10:16] DarkCow (~DarkCow@31.185.131.232) joined #highaltitude.
[10:16] GW8RAK (~chatzilla@host86-176-138-222.range86-176.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[10:19] <costyn> daveake: :D
[10:22] GW8RAK_ (~chatzilla@host109-151-222-180.range109-151.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[10:23] GW8RAK (~chatzilla@host86-176-138-222.range86-176.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[10:23] Nick change: GW8RAK_ -> GW8RAK
[10:30] DarkCow (~DarkCow@31.185.131.232) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[10:40] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) joined #highaltitude.
[10:41] Moomean (6df3cdc4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.243.205.196) joined #highaltitude.
[10:41] <Moomean> Hello ?
[10:42] <Moomean> Is Your tracker up ?
[10:42] wolfspraul (~wolfsprau@mimi.q-ag.de) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[10:42] <Moomean> we are about to start and our position is nnot being updated :(
[10:43] <Moomean> Anybody home?
[10:43] wolfspraul (~wolfsprau@mimi.q-ag.de) joined #highaltitude.
[10:45] <fsphil> what payload Moomean?
[10:46] <Moomean> BOBAS-NG
[10:47] <Moomean> it is visible in raw data stats
[10:48] <fsphil> any change now?
[10:48] <Moomean> It workd!
[10:48] <Moomean> Love You :)
[10:48] <Moomean> ;)
[10:48] <fsphil> lol
[10:49] <Moomean> starting in 10 minutes
[10:49] <Moomean> 2 out of 4 modules failed and out
[10:49] <Moomean> ;)
[10:49] <fsphil> eek
[10:50] <Moomean> external temp working
[10:50] <Moomean> pressure woring
[10:50] <Moomean> gps working
[10:50] <Moomean> gsm probab;ly
[10:50] <daveake> Are you testing or launching?
[10:51] <Moomean> launching
[10:51] <Upu> ping earthshine
[10:51] <daveake> ooer. Freq?
[10:51] <Upu> launching now ?
[10:52] <daveake> Better get my kit set up :)
[10:52] <Upu> Poland...
[10:52] <daveake> Oh
[10:52] <daveake> I saw one on the map in Southampton and assumed it was that :)
[10:52] <daveake> I'll stand down then lol
[10:52] <Upu> fsphil want screen shot of the tracker before i remove Hadie ?
[10:52] <Upu> same daveake ?
[10:52] <Darkside> Moomean: give us some details and we'll set up the tracker for you
[10:53] <earthshine> Upu: Hi
[10:53] <Moomean> bobas-ng.pl -> tracking info only in Polish but the frequencies are there
[10:53] <fsphil> ok here Upu, got one
[10:53] <Moomean> Your tracker on main site
[10:53] <Darkside> Upu: i'm setting up predictions
[10:53] <Upu> Hi earthshine you after some breakout boards ?
[10:53] Action: daveake gets last shots of Buzz
[10:53] <Upu> rgr I don't know how to do that anyway
[10:53] <Upu> someone should show me one day
[10:53] <daveake> Upu you can zap Buzz now
[10:53] <earthshine> Upu: No I was just wondering what people were using nowadays instead of the FSA03
[10:53] <Upu> zapped
[10:54] <daveake> BUZZzzzz.....
[10:54] <Upu> no problems I have a few left if you're interested
[10:54] <daveake> Sequoia still have 20-ish in stock
[10:54] <Darkside> ok poland GFSs are downloading
[10:54] <Darkside> Moomean: predictions will show up for your launch soon
[10:54] <Moomean> we are filling in more helium...
[10:55] <Darkside> interesting, 434.404?
[10:55] <Moomean> we are listening at 434.403.4 now
[10:55] <daveake> Any GlobalTuners available nearby?
[10:56] <Darkside> hmm its not showing up in the dl-fldigi list
[10:56] <fsphil> should be a few in holland near enough
[10:56] <Darkside> oh wait nvm
[10:56] <Darkside> yes it is
[10:56] <Darkside> i'll get on the dokkkum node in a sec
[10:56] <fsphil> for when it's up anyway
[10:57] <Moomean> additional payload should be trackable also here: http://aprs.fi/?call=SQ5FNQ-11&mt=roadmap&z=8&timerange=3600&_s=ss_call
[10:57] <Upu> ok updated spacenear.us
[10:58] <Darkside> Upu: LSB?
[10:58] <Upu> I think its LSB
[10:58] <Upu> if Moomean can confirm
[10:58] <Moomean> frequency going down, now listening at 434.302.0 LSB
[10:58] <Moomean> u cah set USB an use revert tones feature in digi
[10:59] <Darkside> oh ok
[10:59] <Darkside> yep its LSB then
[10:59] <Moomean> our module is tramsmitting both I guess
[10:59] <Darkside> Moomean: 434.302?
[10:59] <Darkside> or 402
[10:59] <Moomean> 434.402.0
[11:00] <Darkside> ok
[11:00] <Darkside> i'm listening on a german globaltuners nodw
[11:00] <Darkside> should hear it a bit after launch
[11:00] <Darkside> ooh maybe not
[11:00] <Darkside> also predictions are showing up now
[11:00] <Upu> using my login Darkside ?
[11:00] <Moomean> were still standing ground
[11:00] <Darkside> Moomean: whats your expected burst altitude
[11:00] <Darkside> Upu: yup lol
[11:00] <Upu> lol
[11:01] <Moomean> were i can find them ?
[11:01] <natrium42> belarus, eek
[11:01] <Darkside> Moomean: uhh
[11:01] <Upu> I need to shoot anyway have fun
[11:01] wolfspraul (~wolfsprau@mimi.q-ag.de) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[11:01] <Darkside> what balloon are you using, and how much gas is going in
[11:01] wolfspraul (~wolfsprau@mimi.q-ag.de) joined #highaltitude.
[11:01] <Darkside> and how heavy is your payload
[11:01] <Moomean> ready
[11:02] <Darkside> Moomean: details on the payload?
[11:02] <Moomean> about 30km expected burst
[11:02] <Darkside> weight, balloon weight, and how much gas
[11:02] <Moomean> about 1.5kg fforce up
[11:02] <Moomean> dunno
[11:02] <Moomean> brb
[11:02] <Moomean> launching
[11:02] <Darkside> k
[11:02] <natrium42> good luck!
[11:03] <Darkside> predictions are set for 30km pea altitude
[11:03] <Darkside> peak*
[11:03] <Moomean> we are to wait 2 min
[11:05] <Darkside> Moomean: what output power is the UHF payload doing?
[11:06] <Moomean> 10mw
[11:06] <Moomean> airborne
[11:06] <Moomean> !
[11:06] <natrium42> \o/
[11:06] <costyn> good luck!
[11:06] jusis808 (~jusis707@94.140.127.181) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[11:07] <natrium42> Moomean: will you be able to go into belarus if it crosses into it?
[11:07] <Moomean> nope
[11:07] <Moomean> ok
[11:07] <Moomean> we are movin
[11:07] <Moomean> thx, bbl
[11:07] <natrium42> hopefully it doesn't reach lukashenko's kingdom
[11:08] <Darkside> launched
[11:09] <daveake> Good luck with not landing in Belarus then :D
[11:10] <natrium42> g'nite
[11:10] <daveake> Pray for the parachute to get twisted for a nice fast descent :p
[11:10] <costyn> Moomean: do you have a cutdown?
[11:14] <Darkside> oh crap
[11:14] <Darkside> his autoconfigure is wrong
[11:14] <Darkside> it goes to 23 hz shift
[11:15] <Darkside> which is obviously wrong
[11:15] <Darkside> also it doesnt look like his payload is sending sentences very often
[11:15] <fsphil> non-standard shift
[11:15] <fsphil> you'll have to adjust manually
[11:16] <fsphil> 470hz
[11:16] <Darkside> cant hear anything on this german node yet
[11:17] <GW8RAK> CAn't get the tracker to load this morning. Connection times out. :(
[11:18] number10_ (d42c14ce@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.44.20.206) joined #highaltitude.
[11:18] <Darkside> no new data for a while
[11:19] <fsphil> is aprs.fi updating?
[11:20] <Darkside> doesnt look like it
[11:20] number10 (d42c14ce@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.44.20.206) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
[11:20] <Darkside> yes it is
[11:21] <Darkside> doesnt show altitude tho
[11:21] Nick change: number10_ -> number10
[11:21] <number10> bobas means little dot
[11:23] <Darkside> well, good thing they have the APRS tracker
[11:31] Moomean (6df3cdc4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.243.205.196) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
[11:31] number10_ (d42c14ce@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.44.20.206) joined #highaltitude.
[11:33] number10 (d42c14ce@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.44.20.206) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
[11:36] wolfspraul (~wolfsprau@mimi.q-ag.de) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[11:36] jusis808 (~jusis707@159.148.10.175) joined #highaltitude.
[11:36] Nick change: number10_ -> number10
[11:36] wolfspraul (~wolfsprau@mimi.q-ag.de) joined #highaltitude.
[11:36] on4bds (59ca9782@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.202.151.130) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
[11:41] wolfspraul (~wolfsprau@mimi.q-ag.de) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[11:41] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.demon.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[11:41] wolfspraul (~wolfsprau@mimi.q-ag.de) joined #highaltitude.
[11:43] wolfspraul (~wolfsprau@mimi.q-ag.de) left irc: Client Quit
[11:43] wolfspraul (~wolfsprau@mimi.q-ag.de) joined #highaltitude.
[11:44] <x-f> spacenear.us is updating again
[11:48] nosebleedkt_ (4f8131b1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.129.49.177) joined #highaltitude.
[11:48] <nosebleedkt_> Hi, i was talking with someone and he told me that mount can be used with a spesific flag to encypt the filesystem ?
[11:49] <nosebleedkt_> propably i say somthing wrong, but what is this about ?
[11:50] <eroomde> you might have better luck on a different channel
[11:51] wolfspraul (~wolfsprau@mimi.q-ag.de) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[11:51] wolfspraul (~wolfsprau@mimi.q-ag.de) joined #highaltitude.
[11:52] <nosebleedkt_> yeah i know, but forgot the passwd to auth myself on freenode and i cant write to #linux
[11:52] <costyn> nosebleedkt_: you can mount an encrypted filesystem with loop optin, but you need more than only -o loop; see 'man mount'
[11:53] <costyn> nosebleedkt_: it's been a while since I did encrypted filesystems under linux, but it's not as easy as just an option to 'mount'
[11:53] <nosebleedkt_> oh hi constanine
[11:53] <nosebleedkt_> :P
[11:53] <nosebleedkt_> yeah, can you direct me to something more specific?
[11:53] <nosebleedkt_> i know -o loop but what else?
[11:54] <nosebleedkt_> no I need a module in the kernel ?
[11:54] <nosebleedkt_> ...
[11:54] <costyn> dunno... google is your friend?
[11:54] <costyn> nosebleedkt_: https://www.google.com/search?gcx=c&ix=c1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=linux+encrypted+filesystem
[11:54] <costyn> lots of howto's there
[11:55] wolfspraul (~wolfsprau@mimi.q-ag.de) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[11:55] <nosebleedkt_> oh yea
[11:55] <costyn> nosebleedkt_: maybe you've used google before, maybe not ... :P
[11:55] <nosebleedkt_> first link shows good info
[11:56] <costyn> i use it occasionally :P
[11:56] <nosebleedkt_> i used it but sometimes i don
[11:56] <nosebleedkt_> dont type clever keywords
[11:56] <costyn> ah ok
[11:56] wolfspraul (~wolfsprau@222.130.123.99) joined #highaltitude.
[11:57] <costyn> looks like they're going to lose the bobas payload to Belarus; kinda makes you appreciate the EU more where we can go wherever we want without visa's etc
[11:59] Action: x-f sighs.
[12:01] jusis808 (~jusis707@159.148.10.175) left irc: Ping timeout: 248 seconds
[12:02] <nosebleedkt_> costyn: do u remember the name of the module in the kernel
[12:02] <nosebleedkt_> ?
[12:02] jusis808 (~jusis707@94.140.127.5) joined #highaltitude.
[12:02] <nosebleedkt_> http://encryptionhowto.sourceforge.net/Encryption-HOWTO-4.html#disk:other
[12:02] <nosebleedkt_> here I get so many
[12:03] <costyn> nosebleedkt_: I think i used cryptfs once, but it must have been 10 years ago at least; sorry can't really be of much help
[12:04] <nosebleedkt_> 10y
[12:04] <nosebleedkt_> lol
[12:04] <nosebleedkt_> im so noob :P
[12:04] <costyn> nosebleedkt_: take a look at truecrypt too: http://www.truecrypt.org/
[12:05] <costyn> nosebleedkt_: do you just want an ecrypted filesystem? or doi you want to mount an existing encrypted filesystem?
[12:05] <costyn> (sorry for the typos)
[12:05] Wil5on (~Wil5on@compsci.adl/eternalpresident/wil5on) joined #highaltitude.
[12:05] <nosebleedkt_> \
[12:05] <nosebleedkt_> ee
[12:05] <nosebleedkt_> need to learn in general how to encrypt a partition
[12:05] <nosebleedkt_> and mount i
[12:05] <nosebleedkt_> it
[12:06] <nosebleedkt_> they have a fileserver here where they have it encrypted
[12:06] <nosebleedkt_> (the partition)
[12:06] <costyn> but you don't know what kind of encryption? i assume you do know the password right?
[12:07] <nosebleedkt_> no i dont know
[12:07] <nosebleedkt_> i dont care to mount it
[12:07] <nosebleedkt_> i just want to learn how to encrypt a partition
[12:07] <nosebleedkt_> mount / umount it
[12:07] <costyn> http://www.howtoforge.com/how-to-encrypt-directories-partitions-with-ecryptfs-on-debian-squeeze
[12:07] <costyn> and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EncryptedFilesystemHowto are probably your best bet
[12:07] WillDuckworth (c2498332@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.73.131.50) joined #highaltitude.
[12:08] tazz (~gaurav@59.162.86.164) joined #highaltitude.
[12:08] <costyn> the other HOWTOs are ancient; many have not been updated for years and years
[12:08] <costyn> nosebleedkt_: in Google you can select how old you want a page to be, this is useful to filter out ancient crap
[12:09] <nosebleedkt_> lol, didnt know that
[12:10] <costyn> nosebleedkt_: click on 'more search tools' on the left and there you can select age
[12:11] <nosebleedkt_> yeah
[12:13] Gillerire (~Jamie@182-239-130-68.ip.adam.com.au) left irc: Quit: Quit
[12:14] WillDuckworth (c2498332@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.73.131.50) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
[12:18] juxta (~juxta@ppp203-122-193-94.static.internode.on.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 244 seconds
[12:19] <nosebleedkt_> eCryptfs looks ok
[12:22] jusis808 (~jusis707@94.140.127.5) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[12:22] jusis808 (~jusis707@159.148.10.175) joined #highaltitude.
[12:33] <costyn> are they not getting tracking info from the balloon or is their computer not uploading it to the tracker?
[12:37] <fsphil> impossible to say
[12:38] <LazyLeopard> Could be either.
[12:38] <LazyLeopard> ;)
[12:39] <daveake> Ah, managed to find the unobtanium part for my car :)
[12:40] <daveake> So hopefully she'll be back in service for my next launch :)
[12:40] nick_ (~nick_@ltbs.vm.bytemark.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[12:40] <nick_> Hi.
[12:40] <nick_> Do people insure their balloons?
[12:41] <daveake> This is a common question :D
[12:42] <nick_> Or should I ask a related question: if I were to insure a balloon who would insure it and how much can I expect to have to pay?
[12:42] <daveake> Upu has been trying to find someone, with no success.
[12:43] <daveake> So just pray a little :D
[12:43] <zyp> I want to insure my balloon against popping :D
[12:43] <daveake> lol
[12:43] <nick_> I mean, I may be covered through my uni's insurance somehow.
[12:44] <nick_> I assume they have some fairly comprehensive "your experiment killed someone" insurance for some stuff.
[12:46] <daveake> Might not be as comprehensive as you'd like, though
[12:47] <nick_> Which I guess is the the worst case scenario.
[12:47] <nick_> If a payload fell from altitude onto someone, or if you landed on a road and caused a crash or something
[12:47] <nick_> Do the MET office insure their balloons with someone?
[12:48] <Darkside> they self insure i think
[12:49] <nick_> So the short answer is that people don't insure their balloons because they can't find anyone to insure them?
[12:50] <Darkside> project horus launches are covered under the insurance of the amateur radio club we operate under
[12:50] <Darkside> not sure of the exact details tho
[12:51] <nick_> OK, but presumably I could find out who does the insurance and how much it costs?
[12:51] <Darkside> well this is in australia
[12:51] <Darkside> so its probably not going to help much
[12:51] <nick_> OK
[12:51] <Darkside> and i don't think they explicitylu cover balloon launches...
[12:51] <nick_> But it might be an international insurance group.
[12:51] <Darkside> its just generic club activities
[12:51] <nick_> OK
[12:51] <Darkside> ok i need to sleep...
[12:52] <nick_> Maybe I'll try and talk to someone in my department about whether our general insurance would cover a launch.
[12:52] <nick_> Goodnight, thanks for answering.
[13:08] <daveake> Upu If I want to get Buzz2 in the Arhab record table, do I just email them the details and then wait for the flack that I didn't pre-register the flight?
[13:09] <daveake> ISTR you got involved in this last time ....
[13:09] <Upu> Hi daveake
[13:09] <daveake> Afternoon :)
[13:09] <Upu> yeah it started a small argument but I think Steve Randall said something and it was accepted
[13:09] <Upu> let me check
[13:09] <daveake> Cheers
[13:10] <daveake> I don't want to start another shit storm
[13:10] <Upu> whats your mail address ?
[13:11] <daveake> email or slugmail?
[13:11] <Upu> email
[13:11] <daveake> dave@sccs.co.uk
[13:11] <Upu> I'll write to Keith and cc you in
[13:11] <daveake> Cheers :D
[13:12] <daveake> My next flight ... http://media.nowpublic.net/images//20/b/20bd644faa8ae9364e68a3fdf3e18931.jpg :D
[13:12] <daveake> Mrs Dave isn't keen
[13:15] <Upu> ok you got mail
[13:15] <fsphil> catstronaught
[13:16] Action: Upu ponders whether stabbing people for bad jokes is legal
[13:16] <costyn> Upu: yes
[13:16] <Upu> :)
[13:16] <Upu> hows this flight in Poland going ?
[13:16] <costyn> Upu: your comment reminds me of this: http://bash.org/?4281
[13:17] <Upu> haha yeah seen that
[13:17] <fsphil> there's a bash.org for every occasion
[13:19] <Upu> whats the radio amateur location system called ?
[13:19] <Upu> IO IC ?
[13:19] <fsphil> maidenhead coordinates
[13:19] <Upu> thats it thx
[13:19] <daveake> Cheers Upu. No "c" in my name though :p
[13:20] <Upu> oops sorry
[13:20] <daveake> Don't worry ... my birth certificate had that mistake till I was 14 and noticed then got it fixed.
[13:20] <daveake> And we got through 4 marriage certificates till they got it right!
[13:21] <daveake> So it's a common error :)
[13:22] <fsphil> I keep getting extra L's and R's added to my name
[13:22] <fsphil> nothing official thankfully :)
[13:25] <costyn> looks like Polish HAB is just about to cross the border into belarus
[13:25] <costyn> (on aprs.fi)
[13:26] <costyn> http://aprs.fi/?_s=os&call=a%2FSQ5FNQ-11
[13:28] <daveake> Soon to be a HABski
[13:40] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[13:47] <hibby> oh god,.
[13:48] <hibby> that was more than 1 pint.
[13:48] Action: LazyLeopard regards hibby quizically...
[13:49] <costyn> hmmm the bobas payload is not the most reliable in reporting it's position :)
[13:50] <nick_> HAB = high alt. balloon?
[13:50] <x-f> costyn, "iron curtain" :)
[13:51] <costyn> x-f: :)
[13:51] <nick_> When people run launch a balloon how big of a group is needed?
[13:51] <Upu> you can do it solo but I'd recommend at least 2
[13:52] <fsphil> 3 is better
[13:52] <LazyLeopard> costyn: It may have descended below the range of its nearest APRS relay? Or maybe it's just being smart and staying silent for fear of capture or being shot down. ;)
[13:52] <costyn> yes you do need several hands to do stuff when filling and attaching the payload
[13:52] <costyn> LazyLeopard: could be
[13:52] <daveake> My last 2 launches it was just me and my wife. More makes it easier. You definitely want more for the first launch
[13:53] <daveake> More people, that is, not more wives :p
[13:53] <fsphil> some pretty amazing photos you've got there x-f
[13:53] <costyn> fsphil: link?
[13:53] <fsphil> http://www.flickr.com/photos/x-f/
[13:54] <x-f> four years old, but thanks :)
[13:54] <Upu> oo star trails
[13:55] Jessica_Lily (~textual@cpc2-with5-2-0-cust341.1-4.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[13:55] <fsphil> too much light pollution here to try star trails
[13:55] <daveake> Very nice
[13:55] <Upu> https://picasaweb.google.com/118244444241111963790/200502StarTrails#5379523630769372018
[13:55] <Upu> polaris :)
[13:56] <Upu> or should I say spot polaris
[13:56] <costyn> ah yes, very nice pix indeed
[13:57] <fsphil> now there's a good idea for an al/ez tracker, have one that tracks stars
[13:57] <Upu> thats called an equatorial mount
[13:57] <fsphil> az/el even
[13:57] <fsphil> equatorial mounts are fiddly
[13:57] <Upu> yeah
[13:58] <daveake> I started the year doing a photographic "365", but that stopped when I got ill for a couple of weeks. Used blipfoto which is great for doing this. e.g. http://www.blipfoto.com/entry/986823
[13:58] Jessica_Lily (~textual@cpc2-with5-2-0-cust341.1-4.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[13:59] <Upu> got some of those somwhere
[13:59] <hibby> LazyLeopard: we had a celebration drink over the new funding last night
[13:59] <fsphil> sweeet
[14:00] <daveake> My flickr stream in case anyone's interested :-) http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveake/
[14:00] <fsphil> you got a block of beer?
[14:00] <Upu> https://picasaweb.google.com/118244444241111963790/200410Birthday#5379118934138758242
[14:00] <fsphil> bbl
[14:00] <hibby> that ended up with me consuming about and bottle and a half of wine
[14:00] <hibby> after I had been in the pub
[14:00] <hibby> work, today, was a no go.
[14:00] <Upu> haha
[14:00] <Upu> https://picasaweb.google.com/118244444241111963790/200410Birthday#5379118979127519938
[14:00] <Upu> Welcome to maturity corner :)
[14:00] <daveake> lol
[14:01] <Upu> wouldn't mind but thats his wife doing that
[14:01] <hibby> lol
[14:06] <hibby> just to add to the stereotype that is me
[14:06] <hibby> im listening to fiddle music as my hangover cure :)
[14:07] <nick_> When you have, say 3 people at a launch do you all start at the launch site, then once it's launched have one as a mission control and the others drive off to retreive it?
[14:07] <Zuph> haha, Tuesday hangover?
[14:08] <Upu> all up to you nick_
[14:08] <Upu> solo tracking is hard
[14:08] <Upu> I would recommend you have at least one navigator
[14:08] <hibby> Zuph: yeah, we got funding for a new set of high altitude projects that I'm leading the 'chute section of
[14:09] <hibby> so we celebrated
[14:09] <hibby> hard
[14:09] <number10> looking at your chasecar daveake - was that netbook mount secure?
[14:09] <hibby> lanching sounding rockets with cubesat payloads to test and the like
[14:09] <Upu> those are rock solid number10
[14:10] <daveake> number10 - yes, that was fine. I had to put some d/s sticky tape under because the shape of the dash meant the pads on the mount were in the air
[14:10] <Zuph> hibby: Congrats!
[14:10] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/files/habmobile.jpg
[14:10] <number10> excelent - just ordered one - more dosh
[14:10] <daveake> lol
[14:10] <Upu> thought I got a new netbook yesterday and its slightly larger
[14:10] <Upu> dunno if its going to fit
[14:10] <costyn> since we are posting long exposure pics, here's some of my experiments http://www.flickr.com/photos/costyn/sets/72157594156023530/
[14:10] <number10> I wonder if mrs10 has looked at my credit card bill lateley
[14:10] <daveake> The mount I have opens a good bit larger than the netbook
[14:10] <hibby> Zuph: yeah, it's really exciting
[14:11] <Upu> yeah it'll probably fit
[14:11] <hibby> we're going to 90km+
[14:11] <Zuph> sweet
[14:14] Dan-K2VOL (~Dan-K2VOL@74-143-44-42.static.insightbb.com) joined #highaltitude.
[14:14] Dan-K2VOL (~Dan-K2VOL@74-143-44-42.static.insightbb.com) left irc: Client Quit
[14:17] <number10> daveake - I like your about us page on sccs.co.uk
[14:18] <daveake> lol
[14:18] <daveake> Whoops
[14:18] <daveake> Guess I shold update that ....
[14:18] <number10> I thought it was great... dont know about for buiseness though
[14:18] <daveake> It's been like that for ages <embarassed face>
[14:18] Dan-K2VOL (~Adium@74-143-44-42.static.insightbb.com) joined #highaltitude.
[14:19] <daveake> It's a dormant business actually but I really should sort that
[14:20] <daveake> Something to add to the "do over Xmas" list
[14:24] <number10> what netbook did you get Upu?
[14:25] <Upu> Lenovo
[14:26] <Upu> 4Gb dual core thing
[14:26] <Upu> couldn't find one with built in 3G for love nor money
[14:26] <Upu> shame my NC10 screen is on the blink
[14:26] <daveake> No, they seem to have stopped doing 3G internally. Mad mad mad.
[14:27] <Upu> yeah I called Samsung UK
[14:27] <daveake> I had an Advent before that included 3G internally.
[14:27] <Upu> they just don't do it anymore
[14:27] <Upu> all the netbooks seem to have slots in the casing marked with the SIM logo
[14:27] <daveake> Replaced with an Acer ('cos it was on offer) after it died. Couldn't find one anywhere with 3G
[14:27] <Upu> but nothing but fresh air behind them
[14:28] <Upu> HP, Lenovo, Samsung all the same
[14:28] <Upu> so back to USB dongle
[14:28] <daveake> Shame. My Dell laptop has a SIM slot behind the battery. I had to buy a 3G module for it, and that fitted behind the keyboard
[14:28] <number10> I got a toshiba one - the only was I could justify getting one is that the mrs could use it to watch I player so had to get one with hdmi
[14:29] <daveake> For my chase car I put a 3G dongle into a Zoom 3G access point. Then all the car devices could access the internet via wifi. Worked very very well
[14:29] wolfspraul (~wolfsprau@222.130.123.99) got netsplit.
[14:29] spacekitteh (~TraumaPon@124-148-45-120.dyn.iinet.net.au) got netsplit.
[14:29] <Upu> I have conectifyme on the netbook
[14:29] <daveake> The dongle has an antenna socket so that connected to a magmount 3G antenna
[14:29] <Upu> http://www.connectify.me/
[14:29] <Upu> yeah I might get one of those
[14:30] <Upu> ChinaRF has lots
[14:30] <daveake> Previous flight I used an Android phone as the access point. That worked great too.
[14:30] <Upu> http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/chinarf/
[14:31] wolfspraul (~wolfsprau@222.130.123.99) returned to #highaltitude.
[14:31] spacekitteh (~TraumaPon@124-148-45-120.dyn.iinet.net.au) returned to #highaltitude.
[14:32] <number10> do you use that to connect through to home PC when mobile
[14:34] <Upu> yeah I used it when in China
[14:34] <Upu> VPN'd back to home
[14:36] <number10> I see we have a launch on Thursday - may bring radio in to see what the 6.78MHz is like
[14:36] <number10> wed
[14:38] <daveake> That reminds me I must get something better than sticking (literally) a yagi to my bedroom office window
[14:39] <daveake> Need a bit more height mainly
[14:39] <daveake> I lose contact when balloons get to the continent
[14:40] <costyn> what kind of yagi would you guys recommend for direction-finding once the payload has landed? something portable yet good enough...
[14:40] <daveake> I have and like this - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MOONRAKER-7-ELEMENT-SPECIAL-YAGI-70CM-ANTENNA-/120815854493?pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_SpecialistRadioEquipment_SM&hash=item1c212fa39d#ht_500wt_1180
[14:40] <Upu> Steve has a nice small one
[14:40] <daveake> ooer
[14:40] <Upu> like that
[14:41] <daveake> :)
[14:41] <costyn> daveake: how long is it?
[14:42] <daveake> (whips it out) 67cm
[14:42] <costyn> i found a diamond A430S10R in a local webshop http://www.radioworld.co.uk/catalog/a430s10r_diamond_430-440mhz_70cm_10_el_yagi-p-3962.html 1 meter long boom length
[14:42] <Matt_soton> number10: the launch is tomorrow (wednesday)
[14:42] <costyn> ah that is compact
[14:42] <number10> I mounted the 1/4 wave on one of those fishing poles at the weekend you showed me daveake
[14:42] <number10> cheers Matt_soton
[14:43] <Matt_soton> np, we need the listeners for this one :P
[14:43] <number10> problem is work - and nowhere to set-up antenna - but I may try and stick an antenna out of window
[14:43] <costyn> number10: work always gets in the way doesn't it
[14:44] <number10> it sure does
[14:44] <Matt_soton> im sure noone will mind a long wire being thrown out hte window
[14:44] <daveake> I was vageuly thinking of putting a couple of mounts on the wall, and then putting an aerial and pole(s) through them when needed.
[14:47] <daveake> Is a colinear the best option?
[14:47] <number10> you need a mansion aswell, like Upu has on that hill
[14:47] <daveake> Ah.
[14:48] <daveake> We are quite high up compared to most ground round here, but I do have some trees in the way
[14:48] <costyn> upu seems to get really good results with his colinear
[14:48] <daveake> Yep
[14:49] <number10> I have similar problems in some directions. not too sure what best option is - yagi needs to be rotated
[14:49] <costyn> can't wait to get my discone cabled up... still have had no time to climb up on the roof tho :(
[14:49] <Upu> mansion lol
[14:49] <number10> I just use a simple 1/4 wave at the moment
[14:49] <number10> ;)
[14:50] <Upu> I'm working on a cheap AZ/EL rotator
[14:50] <Upu> and I intend to put some stacked Yagis up there with a preamp
[14:51] <costyn> Upu: you're already getting ridiculous distance records with your colinear, you don't need the yagis!
[14:51] <number10> M0DTS gets a good range with the 25 element one
[14:51] <Upu> its not so much the range
[14:51] <Upu> more signal strength
[14:51] <Upu> and ability to decode 300 baud etc
[14:52] Jasperw (~jasperw@2001:470:1f08:1caf::2) joined #highaltitude.
[14:52] <number10> ok, I best get the terms correct I suppose before I take exam
[14:52] <Upu> If I get such good results with a colinear think what I'll get with a proper setup :)
[14:52] <daveake> :D lol
[14:53] <number10> I am going to buy your nextdoor neighbour a tree
[14:53] <costyn> Upu: :)
[14:53] <costyn> number10: I'll have him hang some wire=mesh netting over the tree
[14:53] <costyn> :P
[14:53] <Upu> fsphil's last payload came so close a Yagi would have been nearly 90' vertical
[14:54] <daveake> Shame it wasn't at ground level when it did!
[14:55] <Upu> yup
[14:55] <number10> should have had a camera pointing down - we could have see Upu extensive grounds
[14:55] <Upu> in all seriousness I was struggling with the telemetry packets from HADIE
[14:55] <Upu> lol my garden is crap
[14:55] <Upu> its 9 meters long
[14:55] <nick_> Do you guys all have radio licenses?
[14:55] <Upu> Some of us nick_
[14:55] Action: costyn doesn't
[14:55] <nick_> Are they needed?
[14:56] Action: daveake doesn't
[14:56] <daveake> No
[14:56] <nick_> Or does a project need someone with one?
[14:56] <Upu> this is why I've decided to go Yagi's rather than trying to squeeze some sort of HF setup in there
[14:56] <Upu> no you don't need one as you're not using the reciever to transmit
[14:56] <nick_> People pointed me to an ntx2, if I just want to track that then no license is needed, right?
[14:56] <number10> thats not big enough for a 1/4 wave bit of wire for Astra tomorrow
[14:56] <costyn> nick_: the radio bits are a bit tricky, having some knowledge of radio basics is good, but you don't legally need a license to send in the license-free band :)
[14:56] <daveake> nick_ In the UK the amateur license doesn't allow you to transmit from an airborne craft, so we use an unlicensed band
[14:57] <Randomskk> you don't need a license to receive, either
[14:57] <Upu> yep
[14:57] <nick_> I have a little experience using radios from some army experience a while ago.
[14:57] <Upu> however you do learn from doing the exam and my local radio club is very helpful with antenna design and testing etc
[14:57] <nick_> Which are the license bands?
[14:58] <Upu> http://www.rsgb.org/committees/spectrumforum/docs/rsgb_band_plan_2010.htm
[14:58] <Upu> we use 70cms
[14:59] Jasperw (~jasperw@2001:470:1f08:1caf::2) left irc: Ping timeout: 268 seconds
[15:04] <joph> maybe a solution if this device is able to decode fm: http://offers.dealextreme.com/team.php?id=628
[15:04] <joph> *nice device, not solution ;)
[15:05] Jasperw (~jasperw@2001:470:1f08:1caf::2) joined #highaltitude.
[15:08] <Upu> I suspect it won't be sensitive enough
[15:08] <Upu> nor do USB
[15:09] <nick_> How frequently do payloads transmit data?
[15:09] <Upu> continually
[15:09] <Upu> maybe a short 1 sec delay sometimes
[15:10] <Upu> daveake
[15:10] <Upu> Keith Kaiser
[15:10] <Upu> We like to post flights even that are not attempts at records because we love to follow them, even from the other side of the world.
[15:10] <nick_> So what happens if other people are also transmitting on that frequency too?
[15:10] <Upu> Since my August eMail however the ARHAB community has made it clear to me they want records published regardless of previous announcement. So I've added "BUZZ" to the record books as requested.
[15:10] <Upu> Congratulations on a great flight!
[15:11] <Upu> nick_ not had that situation and generally you'd have to be unlucky to clash
[15:11] <Upu> although we say 434.075 / 434.650 the payload generally transmit a little less than that or sometimes more
[15:12] <Upu> you could have 2 payloads within 2000hz of each other and you could probably decode them both
[15:13] <Upu> I think never had to put that in practice
[15:13] <Upu> anyone with more experience want to comment ?
[15:13] <gonzo_> at the weekend I tried using the aor5000 rx, with an sdr off the IF. So I could listen to both launches, if required
[15:13] <nick_> Is the reason why the popular radio on the wiki is expensive because it's portable?
[15:13] <gonzo_> worked well
[15:13] <Upu> the FT817 ?
[15:13] <nick_> yes
[15:14] <daveake> Upu Excellent - thanks :)
[15:14] <Upu> its a great little unit, portable battery powered, easy to grab from the car and put a Yagi on and very sensitive
[15:14] <gonzo_> I'll have to have a look at where i tapped the IF out of my 817, it may be possible to so similar, using an FCD
[15:14] <nick_> What I mean is, could I get a cheaper less portable option with similar performance?
[15:14] <number10> if you just want to do it cheaply this is an option http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SCANNER-AOR-AR8000-WIDE-RANGE-COMMUNICATIONS-RECEIVER-ALL-MODE-RECEPTION-/180767947765?pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_SpecialistRadioEquipment_SM&hash=item2a169bfbf5
[15:14] <costyn> nick_: I tried looking for this as well, but was hard to find
[15:14] <gonzo_> the batteries in the 817 are pretty useless. Only last for a short time
[15:15] <Upu> I've had a few hours out of mine
[15:15] <gonzo_> think the best I've seen is half an hour
[15:15] <costyn> I got an external powersupply for my 817, but stil have to get a DC cable for it
[15:15] <Upu> if that covers 70cms it should do it number10
[15:15] <costyn> how do you guys power your 817 in the car?
[15:15] <gonzo_> the batt compartmenty is useful to put other electronics in though
[15:16] <costyn> can you feed it 12v from the cig lighter?
[15:16] <Upu> yes
[15:16] <Upu> I power mine from the cig lighter socket
[15:16] <gonzo_> yep it's designed for 12v ext power
[15:16] <costyn> do you know the dimensions of the DC barrel connector
[15:16] <Upu> it comes with one
[15:17] <costyn> true
[15:17] <Upu> just put a cig light plug on it
[15:17] <Upu> and/or wire it in permanently
[15:17] <gonzo_> if you regularly use kit in the car it's better to have dedicated sockets. I have a bunch of XLRs in the glove compartment for that
[15:17] <nick_> Basically I just need to find a 70cm SSB receiver that has a 3.5mm out?
[15:17] <Upu> yup
[15:18] <costyn> nick_: you're not gonna get any cheaper than what number10 posted
[15:18] <Upu> Yaesu FT 790R
[15:18] <gonzo_> there are some hand held scanners that claim to do ssb, but stability is oftem not good with them.
[15:18] <nick_> Well, I'm not really sure how expensive that one really is sinc ethe reserve isn't met.
[15:18] <costyn> nick_: ah yea good point :)
[15:18] <Upu> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/YAESU-FT-790R-/190610023538?pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_SpecialistRadioEquipment_SM&hash=item2c613e2472
[15:18] <gonzo_> the old 790 is prob a good bet, as they are stupidly low current draw
[15:19] <nick_> Basically I should budget at least £100?
[15:19] <gonzo_> the going rate for a 290 is about £50
[15:19] <gonzo_> the 790 are mnore rare, but should be with your budget
[15:19] <Upu> at £87 reserve not met is a little expensive they go for £90-£100
[15:20] <gonzo_> keep an eye open for 70cm-10mtr rx converters
[15:21] <gonzo_> or even 70cm-2mtrs
[15:21] <gonzo_> that opens up the possabilities
[15:21] <nick_> Do I need a license to own these?
[15:21] <nick_> Or just if I start transmitting on certain bands?
[15:21] <daveake> Nope
[15:21] <daveake> Yes
[15:21] <gonzo_> only if you TX with them (in UK anyway)
[15:22] <Upu> Matt_soton how are you getting permission to transmit on HF ? NoV ?
[15:22] <Matt_soton> its an ism
[15:23] <Upu> ISM ?
[15:23] <nick_> How do these hook up to a PC?
[15:23] <Upu> 3.5mm jack nick_
[15:23] <Upu> audio
[15:23] number10 (d42c14ce@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.44.20.206) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[15:23] <nick_> I can't see an audio jack on the pics
[15:23] <nick_> Unless my eyes are being too dim
[15:23] <Matt_soton> Upu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISM_band
[15:23] <Upu> it'll be on the side near the mic input
[15:24] <nick_> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yaesu-FT-290R-Amatuer-Radio-Transceiver-/300629273999?pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_SpecialistRadioEquipment_SM&hash=item45fee6ad8f#ht_500wt_898 for example
[15:24] <Matt_soton> i probably should have used the word 'band'
[15:24] <Upu> interesting
[15:25] <daveake> Peter has packed Buzz into a box and will soon send him back to me :)
[15:25] <Upu> nick_ http://www.kwnet.net/n7qqu~/forsale/FT-790RII-Users-Manual.pdf
[15:25] <Upu> where are you NIck ?
[15:26] <nick_> Oxford
[15:26] <Upu> see page 11
[15:26] <Upu> ok
[15:26] <Upu> well one way is track your local HAM club down
[15:26] <Upu> and go have a chat with them
[15:26] <nick_> OK
[15:26] <Upu> they will have kit able to recieve
[15:27] <Upu> you may be able to borrow some, hell they may even be interested and come along
[15:27] <Upu> you can also get your foundation license whilst you're there
[15:28] <daveake> nick_ I'm about 20 miles from Oxford; I'm happy to come along for your launch and/or to help chase in my car
[15:28] <mattltm> Matt_soton: What frwq?
[15:28] <mattltm> *freq?
[15:28] <Upu> Frequency: 434.075MHz RTTY 425Hz shift USB
[15:28] <Upu> Backup/test transmitter: 6.780MHz RTTY 310 Hz shift USB
[15:28] <Matt_soton> thanks Upu :P
[15:29] <nick_> daveake: thanks, although at the moment I'm not sure there ever will be a launch.
[15:29] <Upu> sorry had the mail open :)
[15:29] <Upu> I'll setup the tracker tonight
[15:29] <nick_> I'm trying to work out what is involved so I can take a proper proposal to my supervisor.
[15:29] <Upu> sure keep asking
[15:30] <Upu> I'm just watching bars go up anyway
[15:31] <nick_> I'm meant to be working...
[15:31] <costyn> nick_: most of us are hehe
[15:31] <mattltm> Very cool. Whats the output of the 6.780 module?
[15:31] <Matt_soton> 10mW
[15:31] <Matt_soton> it has a 1/4 whip on it
[15:32] <mattltm> That should be interesting :)
[15:32] <mattltm> Whens the launch?
[15:32] <Upu> you not on the mailing list mattltm ?
[15:32] <Matt_soton> 11am ish tomorrow
[15:32] <costyn> mattltm: http://groups.google.com/group/ukhas/browse_thread/thread/2852807e087dbaf9
[15:32] <mattltm> Upu: Yes but I dont check my mails that offen :P
[15:32] <Matt_soton> i also have a 13.56MHz and 27.12MHz txrs in the works
[15:32] <costyn> ah :)
[15:32] <mattltm> Ta :)
[15:32] <mattltm> I know im a pain in the ass :)
[15:32] <Upu> lol
[15:33] <mattltm> Matt_soton: Cool. I will be at work but i'll set my machine up for remote access and try and catch the hf signal :0
[15:33] <Matt_soton> some of the higher freq ones maybe better when it comes to ionisphere reflecting
[15:33] <Matt_soton> mattltm: thnaks :)
[15:34] <Upu> I can't do HF so I'll just listen in on the regular but very interested to see how the HF goes
[15:34] <mattltm> what baud rate?
[15:34] <Upu> what module is doing that transmission and do you have a blog/pics/circuit diagrams etc ?
[15:34] <Matt_soton> i shall upload an image, havnt bothered to sort myself out a website yet
[15:34] <gonzo_> I'll put my HF antenna back up then.
[15:34] <Matt_soton> 300 baud (mostly) mattltm
[15:35] <Matt_soton> gonzo_: :)
[15:35] <gonzo_> though decoding may be hit and miss, as will be vnc'ing everything
[15:35] <mattltm> that should be interesting :)
[15:35] <Upu> whats the current prediction looking like ??
[15:35] <Matt_soton> i would like to point out that im not actually at the launch site, so i am relying on others to put it together and make sure it works
[15:36] <Matt_soton> very windy i think
[15:36] <Upu> there is a guide on launching in windy conditions somewhere
[15:36] <Upu> might be worth a look
[15:38] <Matt_soton> i dont know what the ground winds are though
[15:38] <Matt_soton> they maybe able to fill inside also
[15:39] <Matt_soton> 22 gusting 44
[15:40] <Matt_soton> dunno what unit that is, or even if tahts alot or not
[15:42] <costyn> Matt_soton: probably knots
[15:44] <Matt_soton> Upu: http://users.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mfb2g09/IMG_2267.JPG
[15:46] <nick_> Is there somewhere I can see a map of old UK flights?
[15:46] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) joined #highaltitude.
[15:47] <NigelMoby> Matt_soton that'll be mph
[15:49] <Matt_soton> either way, filling could be interesting
[15:49] <daveake> yep
[15:50] <NigelMoby> challenging ...
[15:51] <Matt_soton> well hopefully they can do it inside or behind a building
[16:08] nosebleedkt_ (4f8131b1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.129.49.177) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[16:16] David_g7waw (5698c015@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.152.192.21) joined #highaltitude.
[16:20] <Upu> nice Matt_soton like it
[16:21] <nick_> Matt_soton: are you a student?
[16:26] Martin100 (4e69f19b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.105.241.155) joined #highaltitude.
[16:27] <Martin100> Matt_soton what is the chip you are using in that transmitter at http://users.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mfb2g09/IMG_2267.JPG ?
[16:29] <Martin100> Doesn't look like the Micrel or AD one <puzzled>
[16:30] <Randomskk> the micrel and ad chips (if you're thinking of the ones that've been talked about recently) are both 434MHz by and large
[16:31] <Randomskk> well the AD chip does like 75MHz to 1GHz
[16:31] <Randomskk> but at any rate neither are your normal HF
[16:36] <jonsowman> Martin100: that's just a divide by 4 counter
[16:38] <Martin100> ahh ok, thought you'd discovered another transmitter system on a chip :)
[16:41] <Zuph> Randomskk: Putting together my ADF7012 radio today. Here's hoping.
[16:41] <Randomskk> nice :D
[16:41] <Randomskk> good luck :P
[16:43] <Upu> jgc on the Reg : http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/12/06/hidden_gchq_code_breaking_challenge/
[16:43] <eroomde> Zuph: Dan-K2VOL : guys do you recall the name of that quite pro looking private high altitude balloon consultant company?
[16:44] <Matt_soton> nick_: yea i am
[16:44] <eroomde> they did some quite big ZP stuff, they have built their own balloon-return uav
[16:44] <eroomde> somewhere in the states
[16:44] Action: nick_ heard about the solution for the gchq problem - tricksy
[16:44] <nick_> Matt_soton: graduate or undergrad?
[16:44] <Matt_soton> Martin100: the ICs are just logic to get the right freq or a regulator
[16:44] <Upu> Well John Graham-Cumming launches balloons on here
[16:45] <Upu> Gaga
[16:45] <Matt_soton> nick_: undergrad
[16:45] <Zuph> eroomde: Don't recall that one. The only one I know off the top of my head are these guys: http://www.stratostar.net/
[16:46] number10 (568eafbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.142.175.190) joined #highaltitude.
[16:46] <eroomde> nope not them
[16:46] <eroomde> hrm
[16:47] <eroomde> they had zero pressures
[16:47] <NigelMoby> hey ed
[16:49] <eroomde> yo NigelMoby
[16:51] <hibby> yawn
[16:51] <eroomde> anyone: do seeedstudio do routing?
[16:51] <eroomde> external
[16:53] <NigelMoby> pass, might be worth emailing them.
[16:56] <joph> eroomde, what should be routed?
[16:57] <eroomde> joph: the outline
[16:57] <eroomde> rout as in rowt
[16:57] <joph> is it a lot of stuff?
[16:57] <eroomde> i want octagonal PCBS
[16:57] <Matt_soton> i recon they do based on jonsowman's rounded corners on his boards
[16:57] <eroomde> rather than rectangular
[16:57] <jonsowman> eroomde: yeah they do
[16:57] <jonsowman> include a board outline in the silk layer or something
[16:58] <eroomde> ok yummy
[16:58] <eroomde> thanks
[16:58] <jonsowman> eroomde: rounded corners on http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonsowman/6324855539/in/set-72157625801591804
[17:00] <joph> send them a mail
[17:01] <joph> or ask in #mikrocontroller.net on euirc, there're a few persons who already ordered there
[17:03] number10 (568eafbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.142.175.190) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
[17:05] <Laurenceb> As such, it makes sense for the consumer to put excess energy to some good use in the home, rather than export it
[17:05] <Laurenceb> huh
[17:05] <jonsowman> indeed Laurenceb
[17:05] <Laurenceb> as described, surely the other way round makes more sense
[17:06] <Laurenceb> oh the consumer can use it
[17:06] <jonsowman> yes, the feed in tariff is paid per unit produced
[17:06] <jonsowman> not per unit exported
[17:06] <Laurenceb> i see ok
[17:06] <Laurenceb> yeah that makes sense now
[17:06] <eroomde> financial sense rather than physical sense Laurenceb
[17:07] Jasperw (~jasperw@2001:470:1f08:1caf::2) left irc: Quit: Leaving.
[17:07] <Laurenceb> lol
[17:07] <jonsowman> perhaps i could word that more clearly
[17:07] <SpeedEvil> I'm depressed you can't legally net-meter.
[17:07] <SpeedEvil> Meh.
[17:07] <Laurenceb> net-meter?
[17:07] <SpeedEvil> simply inject power into the grid, and get paid what you would otherwise spend in electricity.
[17:08] <SpeedEvil> With no FIT involved.
[17:08] <SpeedEvil> This would eliminate the need and cost for a seperate meter.
[17:08] <SpeedEvil> As there is no point in backfeeding the grid with electricity at the same cost.
[17:08] <SpeedEvil> So most of the reasons for requiring certification go away.
[17:09] <SpeedEvil> At the moment with purchased panels, installed DIY, this would pay off in ~10 years.
[17:09] <gonzo_> and how would the beurocrats make more red tape and justify their own existence?
[17:09] <Dan-K2VOL> eroomde it may be JP Aerospace
[17:09] <Dan-K2VOL> or Global Western
[17:09] <Laurenceb> lol them
[17:09] <SpeedEvil> gonzo_: exactly.
[17:09] Action: Laurenceb just went on a power station tour
[17:10] <Laurenceb> never knew the alternators were hydrogen cooled
[17:11] <eroomde> Dan-K2VOL: no not jp
[17:11] <eroomde> i said professional :)
[17:11] <eroomde> nor global western
[17:11] <eroomde> hrm, frustrating
[17:12] <eroomde> i definitely have stumbled upon them a few times accidently
[17:12] <Dan-K2VOL> hahahha
[17:12] <Dan-K2VOL> Oh, I know
[17:12] <Dan-K2VOL> they're in Tillamook Oregon USA
[17:12] <Dan-K2VOL> what's the name
[17:12] <Dan-K2VOL> Near Space Corporation I think
[17:12] <Dan-K2VOL> http://nsc.aero
[17:13] <Laurenceb> JP are mental
[17:13] <Zuph> just a bit
[17:13] <eroomde> bingo!
[17:13] <eroomde> thanks Dan-K2VOL
[17:13] <eroomde> have a kiss
[17:13] <Dan-K2VOL> ooh with almonds?
[17:14] <Zuph> They were very friendly to us when we wanted to buy balloons, but their insurance ultimately wouldn't let them sell to us.
[17:14] <Dan-K2VOL> They nearly sold us a balloon, had a design all ready to build when stupid me asked them to make sure it was OK with their insurance company to sell to amateurs
[17:14] <Dan-K2VOL> It was not ok.
[17:15] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL: We still may have the spaceport option :-p
[17:16] <Dan-K2VOL> oh thanks Zuph, I do forget all the many things we've got going on
[17:16] <Dan-K2VOL> hot damn, we need to see if they can help us with superpressures somehow
[17:17] daveake_ (~daveake@daveake.plus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[17:17] <Zuph> They mentioned they had SP designs on the shelf
[17:17] <Zuph> And that they would only be about twice the cost of a similarly-capable ZP
[17:17] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah see it's the designs we want, and I doubt those are for sale or donation
[17:17] <Zuph> IIRC
[17:17] <Zuph> haha
[17:17] <Zuph> yeah
[17:17] <Zuph> I imagine they won't sell to us if they know our aspirations :-p
[17:18] <Dan-K2VOL> though perhaps they could consult for the spaceport on design improvments
[17:18] <Dan-K2VOL> well they personally might, they were all about amateur balloons improving
[17:23] daveake (~daveake@daveake.plus.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[17:28] Action: daveake_ didn't quit ... I'm still here
[17:29] <daveake_> Apparently there are two of me :D
[17:37] Nick change: SamSilver_ -> SamSilver
[17:39] <SamSilver> I do wonder about the folk that work at JP AeroSpace WTF are they thinking?
[17:41] number10 (568eafbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.142.175.190) joined #highaltitude.
[17:43] Martin100 (4e69f19b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.105.241.155) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
[17:43] <Dan-K2VOL> what about samsilver
[17:43] <Dan-K2VOL> haven't kept up with news
[17:45] <SpeedEvil> Argh.
[17:45] <SpeedEvil> The internet is becoming annoying.
[17:45] GW8RAK (~chatzilla@host109-151-222-180.range109-151.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 8.0/20111104165243]
[17:45] <SpeedEvil> A couple of years ago, search for 'pipe pressure drop calculator' - and you got back sensible results.
[17:45] <SpeedEvil> With nice javascript calculators.
[17:46] <SpeedEvil> Now, everything is an d-page, or wants you to download something.
[17:46] <SpeedEvil> ad-page
[17:46] <SamSilver> I get the feeling that the goals are changed often and that the goalposts keep shifting
[18:02] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.demon.co.uk) left irc: Quit: Bye
[18:02] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.demon.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[18:03] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) left irc: Ping timeout: 244 seconds
[18:03] daveake_ (daveake@daveake.plus.com) left #highaltitude.
[18:03] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) joined #highaltitude.
[18:05] jcoxon (~jcoxon@84.93.173.36) joined #highaltitude.
[18:09] <NigelMoby> hey James
[18:09] <jcoxon> evening
[18:10] <NigelMoby> how's you?
[18:10] <jcoxon> not bad thanks
[18:10] <jcoxon> hows you?
[18:11] <NigelMoby> not to bad, you off nights now?
[18:11] <jcoxon> yeah
[18:11] <jcoxon> no more nights for 4 months
[18:11] <jcoxon> hooray
[18:11] <NigelMoby> hah awsome
[18:12] NigeyS (~Nigel@cpc5-cdif13-2-0-cust232.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[18:20] Martin100 (4e69f19b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.105.241.155) joined #highaltitude.
[18:25] <SpeedEvil> Anyone happen to have online access to science?
[18:26] <SpeedEvil> http://www.sciencemag.org/content/334/6058/962.abstract?sid=ef9db98f-1f46-4ba9-8fe8-11c4afd07bb4 particularly
[18:26] earthshine (~Mike@cpc1-orpi1-0-0-cust99.2-3.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Quit: earthshine
[18:30] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, i can't seem to login with athens
[18:34] <jcoxon> did BOBAS-NG get recovered?
[18:34] <SpeedEvil> ah - torrent
[18:34] <SpeedEvil> thanks all!
[18:38] <NigeyS> SpeedEvil, know anywhere that sells Extruded Acrylic Square Bar 10x10 mm ? that doesnt cost more for delivery than the arcylic itself?!
[18:39] <SpeedEvil> NigeyS: did I post a link yesteday?
[18:39] <NigeyS> yeah, cant remember what it was though ?
[18:39] <SpeedEvil> hang on
[18:40] <SpeedEvil> http://www.theplasticshop.co.uk/square-acrylic-rod-clear-3mm-x-3mm-to-75mm-x-75mm-3482-0.html
[18:40] <NigeyS> ah brill, cheers!
[18:41] <SpeedEvil> Their prices do seem almost insanely keen.
[18:41] daveake (~daveake@daveake.plus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[18:42] <NigeyS> yup, shame they only do them in packs of 3, i only need <1m :/
[18:42] <SpeedEvil> I'm planning on ordering a large chunk of stuff for a heat exchanger
[18:42] <SpeedEvil> polyproplylene corrugated
[18:43] <NigeyS> aha found some
[18:43] <NigeyS> 500mm 10x10
[18:43] <SpeedEvil> ebay?
[18:43] <NigeyS> £2.72
[18:43] <NigeyS> no..
[18:43] <NigeyS> http://clearplastictube.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=42_71&product_id=340
[18:44] <SpeedEvil> Another useful looking site.
[18:44] <SpeedEvil> To round it off - http://www.cabp.co.uk/
[18:45] <NigeyS> ooo nicey !
[18:45] <SpeedEvil> I'm planning on doing something rather silly, and using translucent 10mm twinwall, backlit with LEDs as the foundation for a wet-room.
[18:46] <SpeedEvil> As it's (comparatively) cheap, low-thermal mass, waterproof.
[18:47] <NigeyS> :o sounds like fun
[18:47] <NigeyS> now if only i can find some 15mm x 500mm cubed rod ill be happy
[18:48] <Randomskk> isn't that like, a hyperrod?
[18:48] <NigeyS> heh nah, i mean 15x15x500
[18:49] <SpeedEvil> I noticed on the above site 30mm*2400*1200mm only 300 quid.
[18:49] <SpeedEvil> I mean - I have no idea why I'd want that size of acrylic.
[18:50] <SpeedEvil> But it's only 300 quid.
[18:50] <SpeedEvil> Come down insanely in price over the years.
[18:51] <SpeedEvil> Actually - a fully transparent tree-house would be kinda fun.
[18:52] <Randomskk> s/tree-//
[18:53] <fsphil> not in this street
[18:53] <fsphil> *shudders*
[18:53] <Randomskk> haha
[19:04] Martin100 (4e69f19b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.105.241.155) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
[19:04] jcoxon (~jcoxon@84.93.173.36) left irc: Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
[19:12] Jasperw (~jasperw@2001:470:1f08:1caf::2) joined #highaltitude.
[19:14] <fsphil> hmm I better get my HF kit setup for the launch tomorrow. I wonder what the odds are I can receive it
[19:17] David_g7waw (5698c015@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.152.192.21) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
[19:20] tazz (~gaurav@59.162.86.164) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[19:21] nosebleedKT (~mixio@ppp046177084237.dsl.hol.gr) joined #highaltitude.
[19:31] Laurenceb_ (~Laurence@host31-52-255-175.range31-52.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[19:38] earthshine (~Mike@cpc1-orpi1-0-0-cust99.2-3.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[19:52] Martin100 (4e69f19b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.105.241.155) joined #highaltitude.
[19:55] BEert (5bb5d44c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.181.212.76) joined #highaltitude.
[19:57] BEert (5bb5d44c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.181.212.76) left irc: Client Quit
[20:18] GW8RAK (~chatzilla@host-78-147-45-42.as13285.net) joined #highaltitude.
[20:19] GW8RAK (chatzilla@host-78-147-45-42.as13285.net) left #highaltitude.
[20:19] GW8RAK (~chatzilla@host-78-147-45-42.as13285.net) joined #highaltitude.
[20:19] GW8RAK (chatzilla@host-78-147-45-42.as13285.net) left #highaltitude.
[20:26] DarkCow (~DarkCow@31.185.131.232) joined #highaltitude.
[20:27] nick_ (~nick_@ltbs.vm.bytemark.co.uk) left irc: Quit: home
[20:30] juxta (~juxta@ppp203-122-193-94.static.internode.on.net) joined #highaltitude.
[20:50] <Upu> ok tracker is set for Astra
[20:50] <Upu> someone about to tell me how to setup live predictions ?
[20:50] Lunar_Lander (~kevingd@p54A0600B.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[20:50] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[20:51] <Upu> evening Lunar
[20:51] Paradoxial (~Paradoxia@pool-108-28-22-94.washdc.fios.verizon.net) joined #highaltitude.
[20:53] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
[20:59] <Laurenceb_> border avoiding cutdown ?
[21:00] RocketBoy (~steverand@027dc933.bb.sky.com) joined #highaltitude.
[21:00] DB10 (~chatzilla@host86-180-218-83.range86-180.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[21:01] <x-f> so BOBAS landed 300 meters on the wrong side of the border?
[21:01] <x-f> there's an update 12 minutes ago
[21:03] <Upu> yeah
[21:03] <Upu> thats why I've not wiped the data yet
[21:03] <Upu> interesting
[21:03] <Upu> wonder if you can just pop over and get it
[21:03] <Upu> or do you get shot for that sort of thing ?
[21:04] <x-f> i think it's well guarded
[21:05] <Upu> http://g.co/maps/x529t
[21:05] <Laurenceb_> RIP?
[21:06] <Laurenceb_> so a small fence but you die if you cross
[21:06] <Laurenceb_> is that what its trying to say
[21:06] <Laurenceb_> landmines?
[21:07] <x-f> no, guards with guns and dogs
[21:07] <Laurenceb_> bah whos scared of that XD
[21:07] <Laurenceb_> wait is that now the edge of the EU?
[21:08] <x-f> Poland is EU
[21:08] <Laurenceb_> in that case probably best to stay back XD
[21:08] <Laurenceb_> Belarus isnt?
[21:08] <x-f> yep
[21:14] <x-f> they must be close, time is updating
[21:15] juxta (~juxta@ppp203-122-193-94.static.internode.on.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[21:15] <Upu> is it still on APRS ?
[21:16] <x-f> http://aprs.fi/?_s=os&call=a%2FSQ5FNQ-11 - 8 hours ago
[21:17] <Laurenceb_> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/12/06/facebook_exposes_zuckerberg_pics/
[21:17] <Laurenceb_> roflmao
[21:17] <Upu> 50p says its up a big tree
[21:18] nosebleedKT (~mixio@ppp046177084237.dsl.hol.gr) left irc: Quit: If you run you only gonna die tired
[21:19] <daveake> I've got that to come. Still not landed in a tree in 4 attempts :)
[21:19] <Upu> real men land in the sea
[21:19] <daveake> We do lol
[21:20] <Upu> btw congrats on world number 3 :)
[21:20] <daveake> Thanks :)
[21:21] <daveake> If I had balls I'd have used hydrogen then it'd have gone higher :)
[21:21] <Upu> 1600g ?
[21:21] <Upu> or was this a 2000 ?
[21:21] <daveake> 1600
[21:21] <Upu> impressive those 1600's
[21:22] <priyesh> has anyone here used a ntr2 for uplink before?
[21:22] <daveake> 1600 + small payload + enough gas to not float. That's the secret combination.
[21:22] <daveake> Plus luck.
[21:22] <daveake> I see Steve has sold out of 1600s
[21:22] <Upu> I have a spare 1600g here
[21:23] <Upu> it needs using so if anyone wants one let me know
[21:23] <daveake> Fill it with hydrogen and beat my record ;)
[21:23] <Upu> in fact if you're willing to put some H2 in it you can have it FoC for a record attempt
[21:23] <Upu> I don't have a working payload
[21:24] <daveake> hmmmm ....
[21:25] <daveake> I have a working payload (well, will in a day or 2 when it returns home :-) )#
[21:25] <Upu> if you're willing mail me a delivery address
[21:26] <daveake> Or would you fancy meeting up in Cambs to launch?
[21:26] <Upu> not sure I have any free weekends left before XMAS
[21:26] <Upu> otherwise I'd love too
[21:26] <daveake> Nor me, but it could wait a little
[21:26] <Upu> I'll check with the PA (wife)
[21:26] <daveake> lol :)
[21:32] <fsphil> hehe
[21:37] Dutch-Mill (3e2d8519@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.45.133.25) joined #highaltitude.
[21:37] DB10 (~chatzilla@host86-180-218-83.range86-180.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[21:39] <Upu> ok daveake
[21:39] <Upu> I have one Sunday free
[21:39] <daveake> Which is ...
[21:40] <Upu> 18th
[21:40] <Upu> where do you launch from ?
[21:40] <daveake> OK, that works for me.
[21:41] <daveake> I launch from here in Berks, but I have no notam now
[21:41] <Upu> ah we'd need Steve about then
[21:41] <daveake> Not launched from cambs yet.
[21:41] <daveake> Yep
[21:41] <Upu> ping RocketBoy
[21:43] <RocketBoy> yo
[21:43] <Upu> evening Steve
[21:43] <Upu> would you be availble for a launch from Elsworth on the 18th ?
[21:43] <Upu> its a Sunday
[21:45] <RocketBoy> probably - but the elsworth permit has expired - I put in a new request well over a month ago - and chased you know who - but he is out of the office for a few days
[21:45] <daveake> He's back tomorrow
[21:45] <RocketBoy> are we talking H2?
[21:45] <Upu> yep
[21:46] <Upu> Ah he who shall not be named
[21:46] <daveake> :D
[21:46] <Upu> I have an effigie of him it gets a new pin each day
[21:46] <RocketBoy> humm - have to think about that the land owner has previously expressed a concern (but seemed to wave it for the beeb)
[21:46] <daveake> I emailed him yesterday to say I don't need a notam for next weekend on account of having launched
[21:47] <Upu> no problems have a think about it
[21:47] <RocketBoy> yeah
[21:48] <Upu> I have an reasonable sized extinguisher
[21:48] <RocketBoy> btw more 1600s and 2000s are on their way
[21:48] <Upu> how long do these store for ?
[21:48] <daveake> Good :-). I was going to ask!
[21:48] <RocketBoy> they say 18months if stored correctly
[21:48] <daveake> (about the 1600/2000s)
[21:48] <Upu> hmm I need to launch this then
[21:49] <daveake> how old is it?
[21:49] <Upu> Think I bought them Jan last year ?
[21:49] <daveake> ooer
[21:49] <RocketBoy> keep in cool but not cold conditions
[21:49] <RocketBoy> out of sunlight
[21:49] <Upu> Yeah in the garage but near my server so its not damp
[21:50] <Upu> in a box with silica gel packs
[21:50] <RocketBoy> who knows that might be the special batch
[21:50] <daveake> :D
[21:53] <Upu> ask for more :)
[21:54] <Upu> special sauce 1600g
[21:54] <Upu> you should find out where met office get theres and tender
[21:54] <Upu> Hwoyee Higher ! Floatier ! Better!
[21:55] <daveake> Ask for the rong-rasting rubber
[21:55] <fsphil> met office sondes only get to 24km
[21:56] <number10> daveake - you need to give the met lessons
[21:56] <daveake> :)
[21:56] Laurenceb_ (~Laurence@host31-52-255-175.range31-52.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[21:56] <daveake> They should go higher so they can give us better data for our flights :)
[21:57] <RocketBoy> yeah
[21:58] <RocketBoy> I have thought along those lines - I can get a bigger discount if I order a container full - but I'd need to shift a load given they are perishable
[21:59] <Upu> how big is container load ?
[22:00] <RocketBoy> 40' x 9'6' x 9'6"
[22:00] <RocketBoy> thats a lot of balloons
[22:00] <Upu> yeah
[22:01] <fsphil> sell them to the met?
[22:01] <fsphil> probably too big for them
[22:01] <fsphil> and they probably get them cheaper direct already
[22:01] <daveake> DM would need a bit of help with all the notam requests to clear that lot
[22:02] <RocketBoy> :-)
[22:02] <Upu> he needs help already
[22:02] <fsphil> We shall call his assistant, Penfold
[22:03] <daveake> lol
[22:04] <fsphil> I'll try and get this 1600g launched in the new year
[22:04] <Dan-K2VOL> heh
[22:04] Dan-K2VOL (~Adium@74-143-44-42.static.insightbb.com) left irc: Quit: Leaving.
[22:04] <fsphil> hopefully with H2 if I can get it
[22:06] <daveake> With the time it normally takes you to get a notam, you could make your own ;)
[22:06] <fsphil> now there's a plan :p
[22:09] <Upu> right dog walk bbs
[22:09] Laurenceb_ (~Laurence@host86-178-2-237.range86-178.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[22:10] number10 (568eafbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.142.175.190) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[22:12] <fsphil> http://www.flickr.com/photos/fsphil/6468200977/in/set-72157628264170117
[22:12] <fsphil> my giant leap
[22:14] <daveake> Bendy straw :) McDonalds?
[22:14] <fsphil> tesco
[22:14] <daveake> :)
[22:14] <fsphil> I meant to cut that
[22:15] <daveake> Mine fell off; should have taped it back on
[22:16] <daveake> You had more wind than here I think. I did have to wait for a quite period though.
[22:17] <fsphil> typically the sun came out and the wind calmed just after it launched
[22:17] <fsphil> bitterly cold though
[22:18] <daveake> Time for some sleep. Nite all
[22:18] <fsphil> nighters!
[22:18] daveake (~daveake@daveake.plus.com) left irc: Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~
[22:18] <fsphil> I've an HF antenna to put up first, then sleep
[22:26] <Upu> nice little bambi skip there fsphil when launching
[22:32] <fsphil> wasn't it :)
[22:32] <fsphil> worst part was I let the payload go when I was back on the ground
[22:36] <fsphil> oooh, snow this weekend
[22:42] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.demon.co.uk) left irc: Quit: Bye
[22:43] wolfspraul (~wolfsprau@222.130.123.99) left irc: Quit: leaving
[22:44] Dutch-Mill (3e2d8519@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.45.133.25) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[22:47] nick_ (~nick_@client-80-5-29-182.cht-bng-013.adsl.virginmedia.net) joined #highaltitude.
[22:53] <Laurenceb_> http://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-pcHfv2CZ2ac/Ts20wnKdrJI/AAAAAAABjv4/8X42QizU35A/s720/crashes%252520029.jpg
[22:54] <Laurenceb_> dragline dragracing?
[22:57] DB10 (~chatzilla@host86-180-218-83.range86-180.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[22:57] RocketBoy (steverand@027dc933.bb.sky.com) left #highaltitude.
[22:58] DB10 (~chatzilla@host86-180-218-83.range86-180.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Client Quit
[23:02] Dan-K2VOL (~Dan-K2VOL@69.64.6.70) joined #highaltitude.
[23:06] <Lunar_Lander> hi nick_
[23:09] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil: so there was a flight in Poland today?
[23:10] <fsphil> yep
[23:15] <Darkside> hmm 10mW USB...
[23:15] <Darkside> that probably won't hop
[23:15] <fsphil> suspect not
[23:16] <fsphil> my hf vert. is probably too low for this
[23:16] <Darkside> i'm wondering what their antenna is going to be too
[23:16] <Darkside> the guy replied with 1/4 wave
[23:16] <fsphil> as I guess it'll be a line-of-sight thing
[23:16] <nick_> Hi
[23:16] <Darkside> but thats not going to work
[23:16] <Darkside> well, it'll transmit
[23:16] <Darkside> it'll just be shit
[23:17] <Darkside> Matt_soton: ping
[23:20] Dan-K2VOL1 (~Dan-K2VOL@69.64.6.70) joined #highaltitude.
[23:24] Dan-K2VOL (~Dan-K2VOL@69.64.6.70) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[23:36] <Matt_soton> Darkside: pong
[23:36] <Darkside> Matt_soton: hey
[23:36] <Darkside> what kind of HF antenna re you using
[23:37] <Matt_soton> a 11m or so bit of wire
[23:37] <Darkside> erk
[23:37] <Darkside> thats not going to be matched
[23:37] <Darkside> well, not very well
[23:37] <Matt_soton> i know its not ideal
[23:37] <Matt_soton> it was a very last minute addition to the payload
[23:37] <Darkside> whats the transmitter for HF?
[23:37] <Matt_soton> should have probably made it into a dipole
[23:38] <Darkside> yes, a dipole would have been best
[23:38] <Matt_soton> http://users.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mfb2g09/IMG_2267.JPG
[23:38] <Darkside> you can do some matching to make long-wires work well enough
[23:38] <fsphil> homebrew, nice
[23:39] <Darkside> whats that chip in the middle?
[23:39] <Matt_soton> just a /4 counter
[23:39] <Darkside> aha
[23:39] <Matt_soton> its not easy to find 6.78MHz XLs
[23:39] <Darkside> so its a square wave generator
[23:39] <Matt_soton> yea
[23:39] <Darkside> ahh ok
[23:39] <Darkside> i used a DDS when i did mine
[23:39] <Darkside> DDS + filter + Amp
[23:39] <Matt_soton> well its a class E amp
[23:40] <Matt_soton> also i wouldnt exactly say DDS
[23:40] <Darkside> eh?
[23:40] <Darkside> yeah i know its not a DDS
[23:40] <Darkside> also class E amp is good
[23:40] <Matt_soton> oh i se
[23:40] <Matt_soton> e
[23:40] <Matt_soton> i missed a line
[23:40] <Darkside> hang on, 10mW output from a class E amp?
[23:40] <Darkside> :P
[23:40] <Matt_soton> yea?
[23:41] <Darkside> really?
[23:41] <Matt_soton> too much/little|
[23:41] <Matt_soton> ?
[23:41] <Darkside> too little lol
[23:41] <Matt_soton> well tahts all thats allowed
[23:41] <Darkside> whats the limit on that band?
[23:41] <Darkside> ahh
[23:41] <Darkside> oh yeah, UK...
[23:41] <Darkside> cant use the ham bands
[23:41] <Darkside> that sucks
[23:41] <fsphil> at least we have this
[23:41] <fsphil> kinda
[23:42] <Darkside> 10mW really isnt enough for skywave
[23:42] <Matt_soton> is HAM allowed over europe?
[23:42] <Darkside> i didn't get any skywave with 40mW on 40m
[23:42] <Matt_soton> cos then a varaible power txr would be nice
[23:43] <fsphil> uk appears to be the only place with the no-aircraft rule
[23:43] <Matt_soton> there are other HF bands which might be better for sky waves
[23:43] <Darkside> Matt_soton: the problem with 6MHz is you'll get NVIS
[23:43] <Darkside> which you really arent interested in
[23:43] <Matt_soton> ill put up a 13MHz one next
[23:43] <Darkside> NVIS is useless on a balloon
[23:43] <Darkside> 13MHz is getting better, yes :-)
[23:43] <Darkside> 10m is probably best
[23:43] <Darkside> 27MHz
[23:43] <Matt_soton> i can do one of those too
[23:44] <Matt_soton> also antenna is a bit nicer
[23:44] <Darkside> yeah, i'd do 27MHz, and use as much power as you can
[23:44] <Darkside> yes
[23:44] <Darkside> make a vertical dipole!
[23:45] <Matt_soton> should be simple enough
[23:45] <Darkside> yeah
[23:45] <Darkside> i did one on 40m, that was fun
[23:45] <Darkside> that payload was so freaking dodgy though
[23:45] <Darkside> http://projecthorus.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/DSC_2115.jpg
[23:45] <Darkside> i shudder to look at that
[23:45] <Matt_soton> the reason for 40m was that those are the values of components i had worked out
[23:46] <Matt_soton> yea theres alot of stuff in there
[23:46] <Darkside> its more how heavy it all was
[23:46] <Darkside> it worked fine, put out 40mW
[23:46] <Darkside> but theres far better ways of doing that
[23:47] <Darkside> http://projecthorus.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/DSC_2150.jpg
[23:47] <Darkside> you can kind of make out where the antenna is in that pic
[23:47] <Darkside> it runs above and below the payload box
[23:49] <Matt_soton> well ill take your word for it there is a wire that goes upwards
[23:49] <Matt_soton> http://yfrog.com/ny7wfwj
[23:49] <Matt_soton> thats someone elses picture of the payload
[23:49] <Matt_soton> before being wrapped in gaffa tape
[23:50] <Matt_soton> or something similar
[23:50] <Darkside> you're not using those duracells in the flight ar you? :P
[23:51] <Matt_soton> nope
[23:51] <Matt_soton> lithuims
[23:51] <Darkside> phew :P
[23:51] nick_ (~nick_@client-80-5-29-182.cht-bng-013.adsl.virginmedia.net) left irc: Quit: leaving
[23:52] <Darkside> http://projecthorus.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/DSC_3515.jpg theres my second hacky HF payload
[23:52] <Darkside> sooo many things bad on that
[23:52] Jasperw (~jasperw@2001:470:1f08:1caf::2) left irc: Quit: Leaving.
[23:53] <Darkside> if it had been turned on just before launch it would have been fine
[23:53] <Darkside> instead i turned it on half an hour before launch, and the thing overheated
[23:53] <Matt_soton> tahts quite a heatsink
[23:53] <Matt_soton> power output?
[23:53] <Darkside> 700mW
[23:53] <Matt_soton> oh
[23:53] <Darkside> it was an amp i scavenged from an old ionosonde
[23:53] <Darkside> the amp can output a hell of a lot more than 700mW
[23:54] <Darkside> but i was only feeding it with 40mW
[23:55] <Matt_soton> maybe a variable power HF 27.12/13.56 M transmitter would be good
[23:55] <Matt_soton> mind you 27.12 isnt a ham band
[23:55] <Matt_soton> i thin
[23:55] <Matt_soton> k
[23:55] <Darkside> its not
[23:55] <Matt_soton> so cant really ramp it up outside the uk
[23:57] <Matt_soton> so what is the impedance of a 1/4 wave bit of wire
[23:57] <Matt_soton> ?
[23:58] <Darkside> with a ground plane, its something like 42 ohms
[23:58] <Darkside> 26.5 + 12.5j i think?
[23:58] <Darkside> maybe i have that the wrong way around
[23:58] <Darkside> witout a ground plane.... i dunno
[23:58] <Darkside> probably too high
[23:58] <Darkside> you could do a hack and just add another 1/4 wave up the wire, without a balun
[23:59] Jasperw (~jasperw@2001:470:1f08:1caf::2) joined #highaltitude.
[23:59] <Darkside> i mean, another 1/4 wave up the balloon train
[23:59] <Darkside> connect that one to ground
[23:59] <Darkside> it won't be matched either, but it should work a bit better
[23:59] <Matt_soton> the issue is im not launching it
[00:00] --- Wed Dec 7 2011