highaltitude.log.20111205

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[00:23] <natrium42> sweet article about the spot connect hacking
[00:40] <kristianpaul> natrium42: link?
[00:41] <SpeedEvil> http://travisgoodspeed.blogspot.com/2011/12/introduction-to-bluetooth-rfcomm.html
[00:43] <natrium42> i wonder if old spot will accept the commands travis has found
[00:43] <kristianpaul> i want to see a spot connect atenna, and hw of course
[00:43] <natrium42> and if the spot servers will forward the data
[00:45] <natrium42> kristianpaul: he has some pics in his flickr
[00:45] <kristianpaul> yeah, getting to the botton of the blog
[00:52] <SpeedEvil> That would - if it works - make transmitting data rather simpler. :)
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[00:58] <natrium42> SpeedEvil: how reliable do you think bluetooth would be for HAB?
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[01:00] <SpeedEvil> Depends.
[01:01] <SpeedEvil> Do you have a spare 34m dish, and gimbal?
[01:01] <SpeedEvil> Seriously - a 2.4m dish will give you of the order of 64 times range-gain.
[01:02] <SpeedEvil> So - say 10km - optimistically.
[01:02] <SpeedEvil> So, you're clearly going to either need a dish at both ends, or a really, obscenely huge dish at one.
[01:02] <natrium42> SpeedEvil: sorry, i meant BT between payload components
[01:02] <natrium42> not to the ground
[01:02] <SpeedEvil> ah.
[01:02] <SpeedEvil> :)
[01:03] <SpeedEvil> In principle - 'not insane'.
[01:03] <SpeedEvil> Delta-t will make it entertaining though.
[01:03] <natrium42> yeah, i am worried about oscillators drifting differently due to temperature
[01:04] Action: SpeedEvil notes that the warmup time of CFL lights in 5C ambient is _dire_.
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[01:07] <natrium42> i'd love to use optical, though
[01:08] <natrium42> it's just so simple and advantageous
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[02:57] <Lunar_Lander> good night
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[07:14] <NigelMoby> *yawn*
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[07:28] <natrium42> sup NigelMoby?
[07:29] <NigelMoby> boo
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[07:30] <natrium42> number10? why not number1? </asiandad>
[07:30] <daveake> That's mine :) lol
[07:31] <number10> because..
[07:31] <number10> when I cane here there were about 9 other daves and davids so ..
[07:31] <daveake> Ah
[07:31] <number10> came
[07:33] <natrium42> XD
[07:33] <natrium42> daveake: awesome flight, btw
[07:33] <natrium42> congrats on the record :)
[07:34] <daveake> Thanks :-). That was a great day. The record is just through using that make/size of balloon + light payload + some luck.
[07:35] <daveake> I'm sure it'll be beaten within a few weeks or months
[07:35] <daveake> But it's good that it's back in British hands :p
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[07:38] <daveake> And it's just great that it was receovered the next day!
[07:38] <number10> was a fun day for us dave.. was also great with fsphil s SSDV - slowly watching what may be revealed in the pictures
[07:39] <number10> what with the added excitement that you may have been arrested as a spy ;)
[07:39] <daveake> lol
[07:40] <natrium42> daveake: you already got it back?
[07:40] <daveake> I haven't no, but it was recovered by recovery specialist Peter (HOWEST) yesterday
[07:41] <number10> looking at the photos of landing - the para cords seems to be twisted - I was wondering if anyone used a swivel, and would it help
[07:42] <number10> allowing the payload to spin and not the parachute - or was the twisting caused by attached fragments of the balloon?
[07:42] <daveake> Latter I think. Not sure how a swivel would stop that.
[07:43] <daveake> A swivel can help stop the payload spinning on the way up. I didn't bother as it had no cameras.
[07:43] <daveake> But this twisting thing has happened to all my flights so I'd like to know how to stop it!
[07:43] <daveake> A cutdown would, of course.
[07:43] <number10> I suppose the only
[07:43] <number10> way
[07:46] <daveake> natrium42 I've added receovery photos to the bottom of http://www.daveakerman.com/?p=148
[07:46] <NigelMoby> spreader would help.
[07:47] <natrium42> yeah, i have seen, nice writeup!
[07:47] <daveake> Yeah, I should try that
[07:47] <number10> some people tie the chute to the payload so it is seperate, rather than ballon connected to chute - I wonder if that helsp
[07:48] <number10> NigelMoby, what - like a disc, or the inside of a gaffer tape roll like Upu used
[07:48] <NigelMoby> a disc would work.
[08:11] <number10> I was thinking (probably not a good idea on a monday) that having the parachute attached seperately simplifies the cutown a little, since you dont have to run wires through the chute
[08:13] <number10> I love it when I think about something that everyone has already thought of ages ago
[08:15] <daveake> :)
[08:17] <daveake> For Buzz1 I ran the parachute separately. There was a line from payload up to chute, then a line from top of chute up *through* a ring attached to the balloon, then back down to the payload again via a cutdown inside the payload.
[08:17] <daveake> Neat solution I though, but the cutdown didn't fire (until the payload was back in the boot of my car after the flight!)
[08:17] <daveake> thought
[08:18] <daveake> Running wires through the chute seems a bad idea to me
[08:18] <number10> lucky you dont use pyros daveake
[08:18] <Upu> http://imagebin.org/187046
[08:18] <daveake> lol
[08:19] <Upu> yeah I don't like running wires through chute, make the cute part of the load bearing part
[08:19] <daveake> That;'s a large ring you gt there Upu :p
[08:19] <number10> oo that looks nice Upu - is that your work?
[08:19] <Upu> no
[08:19] <Upu> http://imagebin.org/187047
[08:20] <Upu> I think its one of the americans
[08:20] <Upu> far too early for that daveake :)
[08:20] <Upu> not even had a coffee yet
[08:20] <daveake> lol
[08:23] <Upu> http://arduino.cc/en/uploads/Main/arduino_Uno_Rev3-02-TH.zip <- can someone download that and tell me if it unpacks pls ?
[08:24] <daveake> Not a valid archive
[08:24] <Upu> so not just me ok thx
[08:25] <number10> same here
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[09:06] <daveake> Just been updating the launch list. A depressing number of "Dumped in North Sea" entries :(
[09:09] <Darkside> daveake: so you got your payload back?
[09:09] <daveake> Peter (Howest) recovered it yesterday. He's my hero :)
[09:10] <daveake> I don't have it yet of course
[09:10] <Darkside> jeez, how did he find it?
[09:11] <daveake> Details are sketchy!
[09:12] <daveake> "Hi Dave. We found the payload in Pittem! We started the recovery from Ostend, luckily I had a receiver and computer in my car. After some time we captured one line, so we could decode the exact location of the payload. The recovery was not so easy, bad roads, lots of mud, ...Regards, Peter"
[09:13] <daveake> That one line of telemetry popped up on spacenear late yesterday morning, but we didn't hear from Peter till the evening, so there was quite a lot of discussion about where that line came from :)
[09:13] <daveake> Plenty of conspiracy theories!
[09:14] <daveake> Landing spot: http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=51.030606,3.286833&num=1&vpsrc=0&t=m&z=17
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[09:18] <daveake> So who's going to break 41km, and go on to take that record from the yanks? ;)
[09:18] <number10> just think, while you were sipping beer in Bruges poor old buzz was transmitting less than 25km away
[09:19] <Darkside> daveake: memememe
[09:20] <daveake> number10 I know!
[09:20] <daveake> Darkside Go for it :)
[09:30] <daveake> So,erm, should I go tell arhab and cause another stir? :p
[09:30] <daveake> I'm tending to just keep quiet about it
[09:31] <Darkside> tell them
[09:31] <Darkside> you should be on that list
[09:31] <Darkside> you'll only get the 409XX alt tho i think
[09:32] <daveake> Sure
[09:32] <daveake> I'm ignoring the 41008 anyway.
[09:46] <gonzo_> good news on the recovery!
[09:47] <gonzo_> hos was buzz found?
[09:47] <daveake> All I have so far is an email from Peter yesterday: "Hi Dave. We found the payload in Pittem! We started the recovery from Ostend, luckily I had a receiver and computer in my car. After some time we captured one line, so we could decode the exact location of the payload. The recovery was not so easy, bad roads, lots of mud, ...Regards, Peter"
[09:48] <daveake> Here's the landing spot from the packet they received: http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=51.030606,3.286833&num=1&vpsrc=0&t=m&z=17
[09:48] <gonzo_> did peter manage to catch some telem closer to the ground then?
[09:48] <daveake> Only 1 line got uploaded.
[09:48] <daveake> I don't know where he was when het got that
[09:48] <gonzo_> ah this would be the 'unknown' line
[09:49] <daveake> Yes
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[09:49] <gonzo_> certainly good news
[09:49] <daveake> So much for the conspiracy theories :p
[09:49] <gonzo_> hehe
[09:49] <daveake> Fun though that was
[09:50] <gonzo_> not abducted by aliens then?
[09:50] <daveake> Well, if so, they returned it :)
[09:50] <gonzo_> maybee aliens are HABers too
[09:51] <daveake> I'm so glad I put those 4AAs in ... if I'd used 3 AAAs like in Buzz1, it would have died hours before
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[10:06] <NigelMoby> Meh its blowing a gale out and its cold :(
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[10:12] <jusis808> hello! is it 5FT. rocketman parachute will be good enough for payload of 1.5 kg ?
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[10:25] <natrium42> jusis808: what kind of chute is it?
[10:25] <natrium42> also, i don't know about rocketman, but i had good experience with http://spherachutes.com/items/spherachutes/list.htm
[10:26] <natrium42> they'll also sew a loop to attach rope to balloon
[10:27] <daveake> As used by Buzz2 :)
[10:27] <NigeyS> A luxury sports car outing in Japan has ended in what may be one of the most expensive car crashes in history.
[10:27] <NigeyS> Eight Ferraris, three Mercedes-Benz, a Lamborghini and two other vehicles were involved in the pile-up in the southern prefecture of Yamaguchi.
[10:28] <NigeyS> 2.3m quid worth of cars!
[10:28] <daveake> Saw that.
[10:28] <daveake> Yep!
[10:28] <NigeyS> id have cried, cried, and cried some more!
[10:28] <natrium42> what about that pileup in germany with 300 cars?
[10:29] <NigeyS> 300? :o
[10:29] <daveake> wow
[10:29] <jusis808> natrium42: this chute http://www.the-rocketman.com/recovery.html
[10:29] <natrium42> http://jalopnik.com/5318399/259+car-autobahn-pile+up-largest-in-german-history
[10:29] <natrium42> 259, they weren't all luxury of course, but it might be more expensive still
[10:29] <NigeyS> bloody eck
[10:30] Action: NigeyS will stick to his measely £1,000 pedal bike :|
[10:32] <jusis808> so, about chutes, these http://spherachutes.com/items/spherachutes/list.htm are better than rocketman, which one is for payload of 1.5 kg?
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[10:33] <natrium42> i try to get descent rate of about 5 m/s
[10:33] <natrium42> which is around 16 ft/s
[10:33] <NigeyS> morning laurenceb_
[10:33] <Laurenceb_> hi
[10:33] <daveake> I've heard again from Peter regarding the recovery ...
[10:33] <daveake> ... "I'm still cleaning my shoes" lol
[10:34] <NigeyS> hahaha oh dear
[10:34] <natrium42> so 5ft seems a bit big for 3.3lb payload
[10:34] <daveake> 4' would be ok
[10:34] <natrium42> it's just that it will travel further
[10:35] <natrium42> you can use the 48" from spearachutes
[10:35] <natrium42> as an alternative
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[10:37] <daveake> Poor buzz ... http://imgur.com/oOX7K
[10:37] <natrium42> aww
[10:37] <daveake> That ground plane wire on the left got reipped out of the holder
[10:37] <natrium42> i am surprised that peter somehow got the signal
[10:38] <daveake> I'm amazed he did!
[10:38] <NigeyS> dam that antenna is a bit mashed :|
[10:38] <daveake> The pink (c) Upu wire did get a bit bent
[10:40] <NigeyS> i blame upu :p
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[10:42] <daveake> I always do :D
[10:42] <NigeyS> lol
[10:42] <costyn> ola
[10:42] <NigeyS> hey costyn
[10:43] <NigeyS> right bbl off to the parents to work on the satellite \o/
[10:44] <gonzo_> ah, yopu are going even higher in altitude then!
[10:44] <costyn> daveake: wasn't Peter's previous UK HAB recovery the one that Rocketman sent across the channel?
[10:44] <NigeyS> haha i wish, its just a model demonstator, highest it'll go is on the end of of a ballon im afraid :/
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[10:45] <costyn> ah yea i see he said that in the scrollback last night :)
[10:46] <daveake> :)
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[10:46] Action: daveake wonders how many days he can continue to where his "Buzz Lightyear" t-shirt before people start to complain ...
[10:46] <daveake> wear
[10:47] <costyn> I think once you start to smell yourself, you should probably put on a clean one
[10:47] <costyn> :P
[10:47] <daveake> check
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[10:57] <nosebleedkt_> its nice to be at work doing linux shell scripts and get paid :)
[10:59] <wolo> llook in drawers for AAs that came with remotes
[10:59] <wolo> ive never run out of AAs and never bouht any
[11:02] <costyn> wolo: I'm always running out of AA's... it's getting a bit maddening how many devices need batteries
[11:02] <costyn> especially once you get kids and their toys... meh
[11:02] <nosebleedkt_> lol
[11:03] <costyn> bought some rechargeables the other day and I have a clever recharger that will recharge alkalines to a point
[11:03] <costyn> but the result is not always reliable; some current hungry toys don't work so well on them
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[11:14] <daveake> Lithium Energizers are expensive but are *much* better with very high current loads.
[11:16] <Darkside> we all love energizer lithiums
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[11:18] <daveake> We spend enough on them!
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[11:49] <costyn> and then dump the lithium in the north sea
[11:49] <costyn> can't be good for the critters that live there :(
[11:52] Nick change: MI6VIM -> fsphil
[11:53] <daveake> But they work for the Energizer bunnies :(
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[12:09] <costyn> daveake: just read your write-up, fun read. so did you call Peter to ask him to go find it?
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[12:24] <daveake> costyn Indirectly. RocketBoy emailed him
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[12:32] <costyn> daveake: ah ok :)
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[12:37] <Laurenceb> https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/384618_134038686705907_100002993307125_156321_252904563_n.jpg
[12:38] <daveake> lol
[12:38] <daveake> I've often thought I have blame damage
[12:38] <costyn> hehehe
[12:38] <costyn> Laurenceb: rc heli blade?
[12:39] <Laurenceb> yes
[12:39] <costyn> my wife recently bought me a 3 channel dual rotor rc heli; fun also surprisingly hard to fly; can't imagine what the single rotor ones must be like
[12:40] <daveake> Much trickier :)
[12:40] <costyn> and of course I did manage to hit some small twigs when it got too close to a tree; a leading edge on one of the blades now has some bumps, doesn't really seem to matter, but if you read all the warnings, I should replace them
[12:41] <daveake> the dual rotor ones should be easy enough if balanced and not in the wind
[12:41] <costyn> yea mine is a not too expensive chinese one which mostly likes going backwards, so I think I need to look at the balance
[12:41] <daveake> :)
[12:42] <costyn> might get a small 3channel one to practise with indoors as winter time is not that great for flying outside
[12:42] <daveake> Get a 4-channel
[12:42] <costyn> daveake: dual rotor or single rotor?
[12:43] <daveake> depends how many times you want to crash before you get the hang of it :)
[12:43] <costyn> heh
[12:43] <daveake> dual is easier but doesn't really train you for the single rotor ones
[12:43] <costyn> hmm
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[13:52] <WillDuckworth> nice little write up daveake, interesting info about the antenna.
[13:54] <costyn> I like Tim's method of putting the antenna inside a piece of piping insulation
[13:54] <costyn> flexible, but will spring back into shape if bent
[13:54] <daveake> Yes, that sounds good
[13:58] <daveake> This is what the wires were like after recovery - http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveake/6458938957/in/set-72157628276636191
[14:00] <daveake> The ground plane wires were longer than needed for aesthetic reasons :p ... I wanted it to look like Sputnik :). Long wires + small payload + spinning is a recipe for getting things tangled up
[14:01] <costyn> daveake: yes, your payload is a good example :P
[14:03] <daveake> Yeo!
[14:03] <daveake> Yep
[14:04] <fsphil> it's me: http://www.flickr.com/photos/fsphil/6459675263/
[14:06] <number10> looks like launchsite is car park fsphil
[14:07] <fsphil> it is lol
[14:07] <fsphil> fair few cars driving past, taking a good look as us fools
[14:10] <daveake> :)
[14:10] <number10> but we dont care
[14:11] <fsphil> there's some video too, including me doing possibly the worst jump in the history of hab launches
[14:11] <number10> stick it up phil
[14:11] <NigelMoby> Meh
[14:11] <daveake> Worse than jump-into-a-ditch from Man Lab?
[14:11] <fsphil> will when I get home :)
[14:11] <Laurenceb> anyone know where to download pyserial for windoze?
[14:12] <number10> is there snow there fsphil
[14:12] <fsphil> there was loads overnight, but it's mostly melted now
[14:12] <fsphil> though I've no window in this office so not sure if there's been any more
[14:13] <fsphil> must take a peek
[14:14] <NigelMoby> Laurence
[14:14] <NigelMoby> http://downloads.sourceforge.net/project/pyserial/pyserial/2.5/pyserial-2.5.win32.exe?r=http%3A%2F%2Fsourceforge.net%2Fprojects%2Fpyserial%2Ffiles%2Fpyserial%2F2.5%2F&ts=1323094430&use_mirror=switch
[14:15] <Dutch-Mill> Hi daveake : did the weight of the copper wire caused the spinning ?
[14:15] <daveake> Doubt it. All my payloads seem to end up twisted :p
[14:19] <Dutch-Mill> were all around ?
[14:20] <Dutch-Mill> were they all around..
[14:20] <daveake> No; two were cubes. First of those was pretty twisted; second is in the North Sea
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[14:26] Nick change: SAIDias -> W0OTM
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[14:48] <fsphil> no more snow, actually really sunny
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[15:31] <hibby> is the FSA03 out of production?
[15:31] <hibby> what've we replaced it with as the standard go to gps?
[15:32] <fsphil> there's nothing as cheap, at the moment anyway
[15:32] <hibby> crap
[15:32] <fsphil> gpsbee is probably the nearest equivalent
[15:32] <hibby> lassen IQ?
[15:33] <hibby> gpsbee still useful for HAB stuff?
[15:33] <fsphil> needs an antenna but it seems to work well
[15:33] <hibby> I've got one kicking about, never actually used it, though.
[15:34] <costyn> Tim has been using a gpsbee with success in several flights now
[15:34] <hibby> cool
[15:34] <costyn> i have one in my setup, hasn't been in the air yet ;)
[15:34] <hibby> nice
[15:34] <fsphil> tim .. success.. ? :)
[15:35] <costyn> well... it wasn't the gps that failed hehe
[15:35] <fsphil> well he's a 100% return rate, so I can't say a thing :)
[15:35] <costyn> hehe :)
[15:36] <fsphil> I'm at 50% at the moment
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[15:37] <daveake> I'll be up from 50% to 75% ina few days :)
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[15:47] <number10> hibby I think sequoia still have a few http://www.sequoia.co.uk/shop/product.php?p=807
[15:49] <daveake> Ooer, they were out of stock a few weeks ago
[15:49] <daveake> Got 2 then. They shipped the LP version which is ublox 6
[15:50] <fsphil> I've still got 3.5 left
[15:50] <fsphil> 2 of them are the LP ones
[15:50] <daveake> And the remaining 1.5?
[15:51] <fsphil> the standard ublox5 ones
[15:51] <fsphil> the .5 is a bit iffy
[15:51] <fsphil> gets a lock, but causes payload oddities
[15:52] <daveake> pulling the supply low?
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[15:55] <fsphil> seems to
[15:55] <fsphil> the frequency of the ntx2 goes all over the place
[15:56] <fsphil> it was fine before being in a tree for a month
[15:56] <hibby> fsphil: what's the link for 'live' ssdv?
[15:56] <fsphil> hibby, http://www.sanslogic.co.uk/ssdv/live
[15:56] <daveake> Doesn't leave enough power for the ntx2 then
[15:56] <fsphil> yea -- possibly a short
[15:56] <fsphil> doesn't do it all the time
[15:57] <hibby> fsphil: how long did 1 image take to pull down, roughly?
[15:57] <hibby> say 40 packets or something
[15:57] <daveake> I'll try again ... *Leaves* too little power for the ntx2 .... :)
[15:57] <fsphil> at 300 baud, about 10 seconds pre packet hibby
[15:57] <hibby> per packet? cool
[15:57] <fsphil> about 4 minutes for a decently complex image
[15:58] <daveake> Note to self: don't bother with tree jokes :)
[15:58] <hibby> yeah
[15:58] <hibby> what's the resolution?
[15:58] <hibby> 240x480?
[15:58] <fsphil> can be any, but in this case 320x240
[15:58] <hibby> close enough
[15:58] <hibby> cool
[15:58] <fsphil> Tim did higher resolution stuff
[15:58] <fsphil> at 1200 baud
[16:01] <fsphil> that sort of speed is asking a lot from 10mw though :)
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[16:09] <daveake> I've not had a great deal of success with 300 baud.
[16:10] <daveake> More errors than I'd like when I tried here with my payload. Didn't even get a full packet listening to somone else's
[16:12] <fsphil> I think most of the issues are with fldigi's modem
[16:12] <fsphil> I get errors with 1 stop bit, but very few with 2
[16:12] <fsphil> there really shouldn't be any difference
[16:13] <daveake> Yeah, I was probably using 1 stop at the time. I've switched to 2 since then
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[16:16] <LazyLeopard> 300 baud seems to be quite CPU speed sensitive.
[16:17] <LazyLeopard> Sometimes it works, if I make sure dl-fldigi has the machine entirely to itself...
[16:18] <LazyLeopard> ...but if there's anything hat hints at the vague possibility of paging then it's goodbye data.
[16:18] <LazyLeopard> s/hat/that/
[16:25] <fsphil> what processor?
[16:33] <hibby> YAAAAAAAAAAAAY!
[16:33] <hibby> we're doing interesting balloon things again!
[16:33] <fsphil> explody balloons?
[16:33] <fsphil> santa christmas balloons!
[16:33] <fsphil> that explode
[16:34] <fsphil> with lasers
[16:34] <x-f> payloads with presents!
[16:34] <hibby> fsphil: sounding rockets and the like
[16:34] <gonzo_> more fun filling with oxy-acelelene
[16:34] <fsphil> ooh now that is interesting!
[16:34] <hibby> we appear to have recieved a "block of funding"
[16:34] <gonzo_> they do go with a bang
[16:35] Action: fsphil checks wallet
[16:35] <fsphil> oi
[16:35] <gonzo_> beer money?
[16:36] <hibby> nope, more "governmental space research" funding
[16:36] <hibby> anyway
[16:36] <hibby> we're off for a beer and brainstorm
[16:36] <hibby> xx
[16:38] <LazyLeopard> fsphil: I've got a rather old laptop...
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[16:41] <fsphil> LazyLeopard, aah. the eeepc I have just manages it, it's 900mhz I think
[16:44] Action: SpeedEvil imagines a cubic metre of tenners.
[16:46] <LazyLeopard> I think mine's 500MHz, or maybe 750MHz...
[16:47] <daveake> cubic metre of tenners = £8,536,060
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[16:56] <fsphil> a lorra lorra dosh
[16:56] <SpeedEvil> (brought to mind by 'a block of funding'.
[16:57] <daveake> Anyone seen the Go Pro space advert? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0XjaCd9gj98&mid=546
[16:59] <daveake> Ah, I see some familiar faces ... :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCAnLxRvNNc&feature=related
[17:00] <SamSilver> daveake: so is the consensus is that Buzz got abducted by aliens and anal probed then Peter (howest) picked it up from them at a UFO landing zone and dumped it in a field after sending a fake string!
[17:01] <SamSilver> abducted at 23km up
[17:01] <fsphil> Peter, who actually lives in Leeds
[17:01] <SamSilver> realy?
[17:01] <fsphil> nope lol
[17:02] <SamSilver> give the man a pint (and a 4x4)
[17:02] <SamSilver> lol
[17:02] <fsphil> there's a video of a gopro on a sounding rocket, up to 80km or abouts -- it's pretty impressive
[17:03] <fsphil> and that really is "near space"
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[17:03] <SamSilver> peter is the same guy who found ####'s payload
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[17:06] <fsphil> hibby, sounding rocket that released a balloon -- practice for doing a titan HAB :)
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[17:24] <SamSilver> nosebleedKT: my dog nealry caught a monkey yesterday!
[17:26] <LazyLeopard> Hmmm... The monkeys round my mother's place enjoy sitting just high enough up trees to be seen but not reached by the dogs...
[17:27] <SamSilver> LazyLeopard: that is why my god NEARLY caught a monkey
[17:28] <SamSilver> the seem to tease the dog
[17:28] <SamSilver> oops * my dog not god
[17:28] <SamSilver> lol
[17:28] <nosebleedKT> lool
[17:28] <SamSilver> my dyslexia is fun some times
[17:29] <SamSilver> I sound like an dyslexic aethist
[17:29] <SamSilver> I dom not belive in dog
[17:29] <SamSilver> *do
[17:30] <nosebleedKT> lol
[17:30] <nosebleedKT> dyslexic aethist:speek greek :)
[17:30] <SamSilver> nosebleedKT: how about some updated pics of your payload
[17:30] <nosebleedKT> dyslectikos atheos :P
[17:31] <nosebleedKT> i dont have
[17:31] <nosebleedKT> :P
[17:32] <SamSilver> and still april launch?
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[17:35] <SamSilver> nosebleedKT: is launch in april?
[17:38] <nosebleedKT> after april
[17:38] <nosebleedKT> sorry i just came from work and im kinda busy
[17:46] <nosebleedKT> I got my new canon today
[17:46] <nosebleedKT> A490 model
[17:47] <nosebleedKT> I Hope i wont rape this one as well
[17:54] <nosebleedKT> and i just pressed ON and camera booted CHDK
[17:54] <nosebleedKT> :)
[17:59] <jusis808> is it necesarry to have anti fog inserts for camera?
[17:59] <russss> just don't have a window
[17:59] <russss> the camera will keep itself warm enough
[18:00] <russss> windows in payloads tend to fog/ice up
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[18:00] <jusis808> so if i havent it will not affect the picture, cold and humidity, right?
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[18:01] <SpeedEvil> There is essentially no humidity at the altitude in question
[18:01] <SpeedEvil> Though if it goes up through clouds...
[18:02] <jusis808> if it goes through clouds, better to have, right?
[18:03] <SpeedEvil> I'd say yes, but it's going to need a heater
[18:03] <jusis808> and how do you solve that?
[18:04] <SpeedEvil> Add a heater
[18:04] <russss> or don't launch when it's cloudy
[18:04] <nosebleedKT> y
[18:04] <nosebleedKT> russss
[18:04] <SpeedEvil> That's easier, yes
[18:04] <russss> the pictures are nicer when it's not cloudy anyway :)
[18:04] <NigeyS> SpeedEvil, you seen the news about Kepler 22b ?
[18:04] <SpeedEvil> Stupid overkill:
[18:04] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/30-40-mm-sapphire-crystal-glass-w-date-window-original-16610-/260895581205?pt=UK_Jewelery_Watches_Watches_MensWatches_GL&hash=item3cbe96a415
[18:05] <SpeedEvil> With several SMD resistors around the edge.
[18:05] <SpeedEvil> Sapphire is a very good thermal conductor.
[18:05] <SpeedEvil> however, the same idea works with glass
[18:07] <jusis808> i`m going to use gopro hd hero, and i havent anti fog inserts, delivery takes about 20 days :(
[18:07] <russss> oh right
[18:08] <russss> you might have problems, then
[18:08] <russss> but if you launch when it's not cloudy, then I would just not use the waterproof case
[18:08] <jusis808> why?
[18:08] <russss> no need
[18:08] <russss> less chance of condensation
[18:09] <jusis808> yeh, but what about impact? maybe in water?
[18:09] <russss> yeah obviously you wouldn't want it to land in water
[18:09] <russss> I think someone here has experience with unprotected gopros landing in water
[18:10] <jusis808> no chance to repair
[18:11] <russss> yeah it was Darkside http://projecthorus.org/?page_id=1497
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[18:13] <NigeyS> http://connect.arc.nasa.gov/kepler?launcher=false
[18:13] <NigeyS> if anyones interested
[18:14] <SpeedEvil> waht's that?
[18:14] <NigeyS> kepler conference
[18:15] <NigeyS> they just announced a earth like planet in the habitable zone, temp of 22C
[18:15] <SpeedEvil> Wacky
[18:15] <NigeyS> twice the size of earth, but if it has water........
[18:15] <SpeedEvil> THEY ARE COVERING UP THE PICTURES OF THE NATIVES.
[18:16] <NigeyS> lol
[18:16] <SpeedEvil> It's a damn shame data is so limited.
[18:16] <SpeedEvil> And that kepler bins the data absurdly before downlinking.
[18:17] <NigeyS> yeah that is kinda bad :(
[18:17] <SpeedEvil> Oh - it's sane for their app.
[18:17] <SpeedEvil> But it could be interesting for everything from oort belt objects out.
[18:17] <SpeedEvil> oort cloud
[18:18] <NigeyS> hm true
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[18:28] <SpeedEvil> I hadn't realised they were picking up sub-earth-sized planets.
[18:30] <NigeyS> nor me, thats a hell of alot of smaller planets :o
[18:33] <NigeyS> wow earth size, 207
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[19:02] Action: SpeedEvil wonders WTF's up witht he music.
[19:03] <NigeyS> lol
[19:03] <NigeyS> i hit mute when it came on, let me know when they turn it off!
[19:04] <SpeedEvil> The really WTF thing is the occcasional star-trek hails.
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[19:05] <nosebleedKT> is it true that the GeigerMüller tubes where first built by russians?
[19:05] <fsphil> Captain to the bridge?
[19:06] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: yeah
[19:06] <fsphil> there's probably a band right behind the camera
[19:06] <SpeedEvil> err - enterprise to kirk IIRC
[19:06] <SpeedEvil> not actually to the bridge
[19:06] <fsphil> nasa are always doing that sort of thing .. random bands in conferences :)
[19:06] <fsphil> the oooheooo sound?
[19:06] <SpeedEvil> No - 'Enterprise to captain kirk, come in please'
[19:07] <SpeedEvil> Sounded TOS, but I don't think it was uhuru
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[19:07] <SamSilver> Kirk to scotty "I have klingons on my butt"
[19:07] <fsphil> I didn't hear it .. all I've got is the annoying band
[19:08] <SpeedEvil> It's once every few mins
[19:08] <fsphil> they're using macs
[19:08] <fsphil> that really is awful music
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[19:10] <SpeedEvil> Err. Now a Lasik ad?
[19:10] <fsphil> adverts?
[19:10] <SpeedEvil> I guess they're using pandora or something.
[19:11] <SpeedEvil> The jazz nobody wants to listen to channel.
[19:11] <fsphil> I need new ears after this, not eyes
[19:11] Nick change: SamSilver -> SamSilver_
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[19:15] <chembrow> evening all
[19:15] <fsphil> yea chembrow
[19:15] <chembrow> hi fsphil
[19:16] <SpeedEvil> Starting again
[19:16] <chembrow> couple of nice launches at the weekend. shame I missed them
[19:16] <SpeedEvil> http://connect.arc.nasa.gov/kepler?launcher=false
[19:16] <SpeedEvil> Kepler conference - starting again - click guest
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[19:30] <nosebleedKT> the Ava mission is from UK ?
[19:33] <nosebleedKT> silence!
[19:42] <Upu> wut ?
[19:42] <Upu> Ava ? Its mine and yes its from UK why do you ask ?
[19:50] <nosebleedKT> I added your picture from waterlanding
[19:50] <nosebleedKT> in the magazine
[19:50] <nosebleedKT> https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Gd3XnIC3c3Y/TozUrdq0WQI/AAAAAAAAVRI/tNJf6h8eBIE/s640/IMG_6797.JPG
[19:55] <Upu> oh ok no problems
[19:55] <Upu> what magazine
[19:56] <nosebleedKT> greek open source magazine
[19:57] <nosebleedKT> they want me to write an article about habing
[19:57] <Upu> ok no problems, there are better ones on the water than that
[19:57] <nosebleedKT> now,i sent it :P
[19:57] <Upu> https://picasaweb.google.com/118244444241111963790/2011AvaRawImagesPart2
[19:58] <Upu> https://picasaweb.google.com/118244444241111963790/2011AvaRawImagesPart2#5667560605236872706
[19:58] <nosebleedKT> :P
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[20:01] <nosebleedKT> need to sleep im tired
[20:01] <nosebleedKT> bye all
[20:01] <Upu> nn
[20:01] <NigeyS> ping eroomde
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[20:11] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[20:37] <nick_> Good evening.
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[20:40] <nick_> I'm looking into the possibility of using a weather balloon to launch some physics experiments. Is anyone available to discuss some basics with a newcomer?
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[20:45] <Zuph> nick_: I may be able to help you out, though if you're in the UK, some of the other guys around here will be able to more specifically answer your questions.
[20:45] <nick_> Well, I had a look around the ukhas wiki, so I found some details about the legal side of things.
[20:45] <Upu> hey Nick
[20:45] <Upu> what did you have in mind ?
[20:46] <nick_> But I guess there's some general things.
[20:46] <nick_> For example, how far is a balloon flight likely to go?
[20:46] <Upu> upwards or sidewards ? :)
[20:46] <nick_> If I launched from, say Oxford, can I reasonably expect it to land before reaching the sea?
[20:46] <nick_> Sidewards.
[20:46] <Upu> well
[20:46] <Upu> depends on the weather
[20:46] <nick_> I know it is dependant on the wind, etc.
[20:47] <Upu> we have predictors and we can only launch when we have a realistic chance of getting it back
[20:47] <nick_> But I'm just starting to convince my supervisor that launching an experiment would be a cool thing to do, so I'm trying to get a feel for what can be done.
[20:47] <nick_> But are we talking a few miles or hundreds of miles?
[20:47] <Upu> weather dependant
[20:48] <fsphil> I've had them land 30km from the launch site, and 500km :)
[20:48] <chembrow> it depends what you want. both are possible
[20:48] <Upu> at the moment you're going to end up either in europe or the north sea
[20:48] <nick_> And how variable is the weather aspect?
[20:48] <Upu> lol
[20:48] <Upu> its weather :)
[20:48] <nick_> Is it a seasonal thing, or would it greatly change day to day or hour to hour?
[20:48] <Upu> but we can get a good idea 2-3 dyas before
[20:49] <fsphil> it's generally windy when you need to launch :)
[20:49] <Upu> let me show you
[20:49] <Upu> http://habhub.org/predict/
[20:49] <Upu> you can put your launch location in
[20:49] <Upu> date and time
[20:49] <SpeedEvil> NigeyS: thanks forthe heads up onthe conference!
[20:49] <Upu> etc
[20:49] <SpeedEvil> NigeyS: very interesting so far.
[20:49] <Upu> and press run and it shows you where its likely to land
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[20:50] <NigeyS> no probs speedy :D
[20:50] <nick_> Cool
[20:50] <nick_> And this assumes that the balloon just bursts?
[20:50] <Upu> oh they always burst exactly and precisely when we expect
[20:50] <Upu> oh yes siree
[20:50] <Upu> no chinese balloons round here
[20:51] <nick_> But I mean, is it common to deliberately start the descent?
[20:51] <Upu> we can control certain aspect
[20:51] <Zuph> Cutting your balloon out of the sky is a good way to get a more ideal landing location.
[20:51] <Upu> and yes the flight can be terminated
[20:52] <nick_> Is it much more difficult to build a payload that you can transmit a termination message to?
[20:52] <Upu> we've had a few issues recently with a brand of balloon that don't burst when they are meant to
[20:52] <Zuph> Commmon methods are timer based nichrome wire rope melters, and (in the UK because you guys are insane) pyros.
[20:52] <Upu> you don't tend tell the balloon to terminate, not seen one of those
[20:52] <nick_> Or do people rely on the flight computer to terminate?
[20:52] <chembrow> are the howyee balloons much tougher than the totex then?
[20:52] <Upu> some terminate after a preset time, via a "geofence" or via the computer deciding its time to stop
[20:53] <Upu> well in fairness I've yet to see one filled with the manufacturers recommended amount of gas
[20:53] <Upu> bt they tend to float
[20:53] <nick_> OK, thanks, this is helpful information.
[20:53] <Upu> i.e hit a certain altitude and don't go up but don't come down either
[20:54] <Upu> but the flight computer can detect this situation and terminate
[20:54] <nick_> On the launch side woudl I need to launch from anywhere specific, or could I just launch from a nearby field?
[20:54] <Upu> anywhere you have a NOTAM for (permission to launch)
[20:54] <fsphil> any the obvious things, no power lines, trees, water towers
[20:54] <nick_> But I can request that for just about anywhere?
[20:54] <Upu> just a few things to bear in mind
[20:54] <Upu> keep it light
[20:54] <SpeedEvil> nick_: Near airports you amy get turned down
[20:55] <nick_> OK
[20:55] <Upu> light light light
[20:55] <Upu> light = safer and you go higher with less gas
[20:55] <SpeedEvil> Gas is expensive
[20:55] <nick_> And what do you mean by light?
[20:55] <SpeedEvil> Unless it's hydrogen.
[20:55] <SpeedEvil> Under a kilo
[20:55] <nick_> Well, I hope that I won't be paying, so...
[20:56] <fsphil> no sharp pointy bits either
[20:56] <SpeedEvil> ?
[20:56] <Upu> for a scientifc payload < 750g I'd say
[20:56] <Upu> and it needs to be able to run off AA batteries
[20:56] <Upu> not nuclear powered or anything
[20:56] <chembrow> that's no fun :)
[20:56] <nick_> Hopefully It'll be part of my work, so I won't have to fund the launch out of my pocket.
[20:56] <SpeedEvil> ah
[20:57] <nick_> Is there any regulation for the mass?
[20:57] <Upu> if you just want to do the science part I'm sure someone could launch it for you
[20:57] <Upu> no regulation but bear in mind if it tangles the parachute it could come down quick
[20:57] <nick_> I read some of the Near Space book on parallax and it said in America they can go up to ~5kg.
[20:57] <Matt_soton> is there a maximuim number of payloads that can go on spacenear/tracker?
[20:57] <Upu> I wouldn't consider that safe
[20:57] <nick_> Although they said that should be split into a couple of packages.
[20:58] <SpeedEvil> nick_: Consider this.
[20:58] <SpeedEvil> 'Would I be happy with it landing on my head'.
[20:58] <Upu> lol
[20:58] <Upu> or your car
[20:58] <nick_> Well, that's not going to change much from 1kg to 5kg
[20:58] <nick_> It'd ruin my day either way.
[20:58] <Upu> trust me 5kg landing on a car with no parachute would probably write the car off
[20:59] <nick_> And 1kg wouldn't?
[20:59] <Upu> I might be wrong as I suck at maths but doesn't the kinetic energy square ?
[21:00] <nick_> Yes, but it's really a threshold effect.
[21:00] <Upu> depends on packaging etc, either way we do everything we can to keep the weight down
[21:00] <nick_> OK
[21:00] <Upu> Have you seen this : http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:guidelines
[21:00] <nick_> So I should aim for < 1kg?
[21:00] <Upu> absolutely
[21:00] <chembrow> that includes the payload container, chute, lines, etc...
[21:00] <nick_> And on the parachute side, how reliable are they?
[21:01] <Upu> pretty good
[21:01] <nick_> Do people rely on a single parachute, or also pack a backup?
[21:01] <Upu> always a chance of a tangle
[21:01] <chembrow> my first payload container was made out of house insulation, weighed ~600g empty
[21:01] <Upu> I have considered an emergency chute
[21:01] <Upu> to be fired if the payload detects rate of decent exceeds a certain threshold
[21:02] <Upu> pushed out using a pyro
[21:02] <Upu> nothing tested though
[21:03] <Upu> so what do you have in mind or just getting a feel for what can be done physically first ?
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[21:03] <nick_> Well, I would like to make a cosmic ray flux measurement.
[21:04] <Upu> interesting
[21:04] <nick_> But I'm not sure how feasable that is.
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[21:04] <nick_> So far I've convinced my supervisor that it's a cool idea, now I need to do some fact finding so I have some idea what is possible.
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[21:05] <nick_> If it looks like this is something we can do then I can start looking for some money to do it.
[21:05] <nick_> Which might be from getting some school kids involved.
[21:06] <nick_> Like if we could make the payload holder, sort out telemetry and recovery, etc then we could get some school kids to make some experiments to launch.
[21:06] <Upu> been a few school launches
[21:06] <nick_> There's more money available for that kinda thing than there is for "my student thinks this is a cool idea so give him some money."
[21:06] <Upu> Rob does some stuff with Outreach teacher training
[21:07] <nick_> Who is Rob?
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[21:07] <Upu> Rob Harrison
[21:07] <nick_> Is he in the channel under a different nickname?
[21:07] <Upu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afxhYKgcxiE
[21:07] <Upu> he's not online at the moment
[21:08] <nick_> HE's from U. Sheffield?
[21:08] <Upu> Yorkshire
[21:08] <Upu> near Halifax not far from me
[21:08] <Upu> just making a brew back soon
[21:12] <nick_> Are there any particluar places that are good for launching in the UK, based on prevailing winds, etc?
[21:12] <nick_> To have a good chance of landing in the UK too.
[21:13] <fsphil> ah, I still haven't encoded rob's video
[21:13] <Upu> I did look for yours first
[21:13] <fsphil> anywhere about 50km from the coast is fine on most days
[21:13] <Upu> but entirely dependant on the weather
[21:13] <fsphil> this month the winds have been really bad
[21:13] <fsphil> I launched in N.Ireland and totally missed England :)
[21:13] <Upu> nick_ have you seen http://spacenear.us/tracker
[21:14] <nick_> No
[21:14] <Upu> Note Hadie launching from Northern Ireland missing the UK by a mile and landing in the sea
[21:14] <Upu> and Buzz making it to Belgium :)
[21:14] <Upu> both launched within 3 hours of each other
[21:14] <nick_> Is there a large seasonal variation to the winds?
[21:15] <Upu> I'm not a metrologist but I suspect yes
[21:15] <Upu> or however you spell it
[21:15] <fsphil> Not sure either, but the last time I launched in the winter it did something similar
[21:15] <fsphil> only that time it landed in yorkshire
[21:16] <Upu> it was similar
[21:16] <Upu> similar time of year too wasn't it ?
[21:16] <fsphil> I had a faster ascent rate that time
[21:16] <fsphil> yea .. January I think
[21:16] <nick_> How long do people usually take to get up to speed enough to launch a basic payload?
[21:17] <fsphil> how good are you with electronics?
[21:17] <nick_> Could I reasonably able to go from essentially complete ignorance now to being able to launch something in the summer.
[21:17] <Upu> depends on your background
[21:17] <nick_> I am OK with electronics.
[21:17] <Upu> used any programmable microcontrollers ?
[21:17] <nick_> I already play around with microcontrollers.
[21:17] <Upu> you have a head start
[21:17] <fsphil> that's half the battle
[21:17] <nick_> I have more of a programming background, but I have access to a good electronics workshop for help with things.
[21:18] <Upu> basically its one of those, a GPS unit and a radio module
[21:18] <Upu> theres guides to all on the Wiki
[21:18] <nick_> Yeah, I saw a tutorial for using an NTX2 with an arduino.
[21:18] <Upu> yeah good article that one :/
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[21:19] <snelly> hi
[21:19] <Upu> hello
[21:19] <nick_> And the transceivers are also pretty cheap?
[21:19] <Upu> the module on the payload ? ~ £15
[21:19] <Upu> the radio you need to recieve them
[21:19] <Upu> not so cheap
[21:20] <Upu> you need a amateur radio rig
[21:20] <nick_> How much are we talking for a receiver?
[21:20] <nick_> Hmm
[21:20] <Upu> you can pick up secondhand ones from £75 upwards
[21:20] <Upu> a new Yaesu FT817 is about £550 ?
[21:20] <Upu> something like that
[21:20] <nick_> If only one of my bastard cousins hadn't stollen all my grandpa's stuff when he died...
[21:21] <Upu> http://www.radioworld.co.uk/catalog/yaesu_ft-817_nd_radio-p-348.html?osCsid=2ed9588291eeef762b04af8743dc74c7
[21:21] <Upu> £529
[21:21] <fsphil> they used to be £450 something
[21:21] <nick_> and an NTX2 and a that kind of receiver can communicate throughout the entire flight?
[21:21] <Upu> you need something that will do USB on 70cms
[21:21] <fsphil> pretty much the entire flight
[21:22] <fsphil> landing can be a bit patchy, depends how near you are and the terrain
[21:22] <Upu> don't forget
[21:22] <nick_> Do people ever use mobile phones?
[21:22] <Upu> its not just you listening in we have a network of recievers around the UK all the way out to Beligium
[21:22] <Upu> yeah but they don't work above a certain alitude
[21:22] <Upu> and are patchy anyway
[21:23] <nick_> How high do they work?
[21:23] <nick_> I was mostly thinking to get one to send me a text message when it thinks it lands.
[21:23] <fsphil> it's not a bad idea as a backup
[21:23] <fsphil> the trouble is they either work perfectly, or not at all :)
[21:23] <Upu> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/YAESU-FT-790R-/190610023538?pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_SpecialistRadioEquipment_SM&hash=item2c613e2472
[21:23] <nick_> But if they could do some limited data transfer in flight too that might be good.
[21:23] <fsphil> the radio tracker will generally give you a pretty good idea where it landed, even if you don't know exactly
[21:23] <Upu> you won't get much
[21:24] <Upu> mobile phone masts angle down
[21:24] <fsphil> I've heard of people using phones up to 4km, but after that you're pretty much out of luck
[21:24] <nick_> For something like a cosmic flux measurement then just the ability to send a text message or two with very minimal data would ensure that the experiment wasn't a complete waste even if I never saw the payload again.
[21:24] <nick_> And balloons generally go up to ~10km?
[21:24] <Upu> the radio can transmit that data
[21:24] <Upu> 35km
[21:25] <nick_> Wow
[21:25] <Upu> though this weekend just shy of 41k
[21:25] <Upu> fsphil
[21:25] <Upu> link sstv page
[21:25] <Upu> pls
[21:25] <fsphil> http://www.sanslogic.co.uk/ssdv/live
[21:25] <Upu> fsphil Hadie send all these images down live before it fell in the sea
[21:25] <Upu> fsphil's
[21:26] <Upu> 300 baud
[21:26] <fsphil> I must count up how much data that was altogether
[21:26] <Upu> using our network of volunteers what one person missed other people got
[21:26] <Upu> meaning not much was missed
[21:26] <nick_> So these radios that you linked to, they receive the data and easily interface with a pc?
[21:26] <Upu> 2.5mm audio jack
[21:27] <Randomskk> 3.5mm*
[21:27] <Upu> one of those too
[21:27] <Randomskk> :P
[21:27] <Upu> I'd never win an accurate typing competition
[21:28] <nick_> OK, so you plug it in like a mic and then use some software to convert that to data?
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> hi nick_
[21:28] <nick_> Hello
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> nice to see new people
[21:28] <Upu> you got it
[21:28] <Upu> dl-fldigi
[21:28] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide
[21:29] <nick_> Cool
[21:29] <fsphil> 1164 packets received, nice!
[21:29] <nick_> I should see if I can hunt down my grandpa's old kit.
[21:29] <Upu> how big is a packet
[21:29] <fsphil> 256 bytes, 223 not including FEC
[21:29] <Upu> sstv packet
[21:29] <nick_> He had thousands of pounds worth of radio stuff.
[21:30] <Upu> 4Mb ?
[21:30] <fsphil> 253Kb transferred
[21:30] <snelly> so what's the standard ¨radio board that most folks are using for HF data transmission via Hell or DominoEX?
[21:30] <Upu> Sorry yes
[21:31] <Upu> we don't tend to use HF here snelly
[21:31] <Upu> 70cms
[21:31] <snelly> k
[21:31] <Upu> UK HF in the air isn't allowed
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[21:31] <snelly> boo.
[21:31] <fsphil> yea
[21:31] <Upu> Yes
[21:31] <fsphil> very boo
[21:31] <Upu> Dear OFCOM,
[21:31] <Upu> Boo
[21:31] <fsphil> lol
[21:31] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:33] <snelly> maybe the Prinicipality of Sealand would let you launch HF.
[21:33] <nick_> Sorry if I'm slow to respond for a bit, I had to call out some gas engineers because we smelt gas.
[21:33] <Upu> no problems nick
[21:34] <nick_> So with the kind of radio you linked to, do you need a big antenna?
[21:34] <nick_> And I guess on the balloon to?
[21:34] <nick_> too
[21:34] <Upu> nope I use a mag mounted Diamond thingy when chasing in the car
[21:34] <Upu> it only about 8" tall
[21:34] <nick_> OK
[21:35] <nick_> And a similar thing on the balloon?
[21:35] <Upu> and a yagi for direction finding
[21:35] <Upu> 1/4 wave ground plane
[21:35] <Upu> 164mm radials / element
[21:35] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/files/2010-09-03%2019-26-16_0003.jpg
[21:35] <Upu> that but upside down on the bottom of the payload
[21:36] <Upu> and its drawn wrong on the bottom
[21:37] <nick_> How much mass do you guys budget for, let's say, the boring stuff on your payload?
[21:37] <Upu> Personally I was about 850g all in
[21:37] <nick_> Maybe "boring" is wrong, but a basic payload. A container, radio equipment and GPS
[21:38] <Upu> camera, video camera and tracking
[21:38] <nick_> Most of which was the video camera?
[21:38] <Upu> no actually
[21:38] <Upu> the stills camera, canon A560
[21:38] <Upu> video was a little chinese jobbie
[21:38] <nick_> OK
[21:39] <nick_> So maybe 0.5kg for the most basic payload?
[21:39] <nick_> Then I could budget ~0.5kg for an experiment?
[21:39] <Upu> http://youtu.be/s8cOzkUeso4 is the quality I got
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[21:39] <Upu> well if you lose the camera
[21:40] <Upu> I'd say 1kg max but perferably less
[21:40] <nick_> I'd not have a camera, but I'd need some plastic slabs and some optoelectronics.
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[21:40] <Upu> just a few more things
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[21:40] <Upu> is -50 up there
[21:41] <Upu> you have 6 volts to play with
[21:41] <Upu> and there is very little atmosphere
[21:41] <nick_> Why am I limited to 6V?
[21:41] <Upu> well thats 4 x AA 1.5Vs
[21:41] <nick_> OK
[21:42] <Upu> you can have more but adds to the weight
[21:42] <Upu> lipos tend to stop working
[21:42] <nick_> Yeah, I would need a high voltage, but low current, so I'd use a little DC-DC converter.
[21:42] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/ideas:power_supply?s[]=batteries
[21:42] <nick_> Although I need to cehck that I wouldn't have problems with the breakdown voltage.
[21:42] <Upu> yup
[21:43] <nick_> But I assume it wouldn't be too bad.
[21:43] <nick_> I know people that have launched some geiger counters.
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[21:44] <gonzo_> silicon detectors would be better for that envurinment if you are worried about arcing
[21:44] <nick_> Well, I'm not sure about arcing.
[21:44] <nick_> Because I know people have used geiger counters which use, say, 500V
[21:44] <nick_> So I'm currently thinking that scintillator + APD may be possible.
[21:45] <nick_> But I'm really at a hand wavy stage of thinking about this, so it's quite possible that I've ignored something important.
[21:45] <nick_> APDs need ~200V
[21:46] <nick_> The advantage of scintillator + APDs (if I can get them working) is that you get a much bigger area for a lower cost.
[21:46] <nick_> So you measure a higher rate of cosmics.
[21:46] <Upu> http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9848
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[21:47] <nick_> Yeah, £100 gets you a geiger counter.
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[21:48] <nick_> But for the same money you can make a scintillating detector that's an order of magnitude or two larger.
[21:50] <nick_> Or so I hope, at least.
[21:51] <nick_> Although I'm more worried than I was about the mass limit now.
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[21:53] <gonzo_> Probably not sensitive enough for this situation, but a fET gate can be used as a gamma detector
[21:54] <gonzo_> they fly them on low earth orbiting sats to measure the van-allen belts
[22:01] <Laurenceb_> SpeedEvil:ping
[22:02] <fsphil> brrr freezing out there - a wee bit more snow too
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> nick_: do you study physics?
[22:03] <Upu> aye got to go walk the dog
[22:03] <Upu> hat time
[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[22:09] Action: Laurenceb_ gets his aluminium foil hat
[22:09] <Laurenceb_> Upu: yeah HAARP is firing up again, thanks for reminding me
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> XD
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[22:14] <Laurenceb_> "president karzi and representatives from over 90 countries have been meeting in Kabul to discuss the future of Afganistan, the Taliban did not attend"
[22:14] <Laurenceb_> roflmao
[22:14] <nick_> Lunar_Lander: yeah, I'm a graduate student,.
[22:14] <Lunar_Lander> nice
[22:15] <Lunar_Lander> so on the way to M.Sc.?
[22:15] <nick_> DPhil
[22:16] <fsphil> fsphil?
[22:16] <nick_> But my current work is not so trilling, so I'm looking for a cool experiment I could do to help get me through the boring parts and to help me get a job working more on hardware stuff.
[22:16] <nick_> DPhil is the backwards Oxford way of saying PhD
[22:17] <SpeedEvil> http://connect.arc.nasa.gov/kepler?launcher=false - restarting
[22:17] <fsphil> aah
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> cool nick_
[22:21] <nick_> So I was thinking it'd be neat to make a cosmic detector. Then I was trying to think what I could do differently to turn an undergrad lab experiment that'd been doing the same stuff for a century into something awesome.
[22:22] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:22] <nick_> At which point I stumbled on a website from some students who launched a camera on a weather balloon and got some picutres that look like space.
[22:22] <nick_> Then I had the idea of launchign a cosmic detector.
[22:22] <fsphil> add more lasers -- should add at least 30% more awesome
[22:22] <Lunar_Lander> sounds cool
[22:22] <nick_> Which also people have done a lot, but isn't done every day.
[22:22] <nick_> Powell got a nobel prize for it.
[22:23] <nick_> Very early particle physics was done with emulsions on hot air balloons.
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[22:23] <Lunar_Lander> hydrogen balloons
[22:23] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:24] <Lunar_Lander> OK wait people
[22:24] <Lunar_Lander> did someone here post an imgur link?
[22:24] <Laurenceb_> SpeedEvil: any idea why gnuplot is corrupting my svg output?
[22:24] <SpeedEvil> never used svg
[22:25] <Laurenceb_> Terminal type set to 'svg' Options are 'size 600,480 fixed fname 'Arial' fsize 12 butt solid ' gnuplot> set output 'plot.svg' gnuplot> replot
[22:25] <Laurenceb_> theres a file but its corrupted
[22:28] <SpeedEvil> less?
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[22:28] <SpeedEvil> does it look like a svg - or something else
[22:28] <SpeedEvil> file
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[22:59] <daveake> Evening all
[23:04] Hiena (~boreger@81.93.195.181.datatrans.hu) got lost in the net-split.
[23:06] <fsphil> hullo hullo
[23:06] <daveake> Evening fellow international launcher :)
[23:06] <fsphil> lol
[23:07] <fsphil> we're starting an elite club now? the north sea crew
[23:07] <daveake> Just looking up the list, you missed England by just a mile?
[23:07] <daveake> :D
[23:07] <fsphil> 50 miles I think
[23:07] <daveake> Ah
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[23:08] <fsphil> so now investigating cut-downs again :)
[23:08] <daveake> :)
[23:08] <daveake> I had one on Buzz1, but removed it for Buzz2
[23:09] <daveake> But then I had more land to aim at :)
[23:09] <fsphil> yea, sadly I aimed for the slimmest part of gb
[23:10] <daveake> Quite!
[23:10] <Lunar_Lander> hi daveake
[23:10] <daveake> hi LL
[23:11] <Lunar_Lander> nick_: still here?
[23:11] <fsphil> I think a nice south east wind that carriers it towards central england is what I need
[23:11] <fsphil> down towards cambridge
[23:11] <Randomskk> try and land on our launch site :D
[23:12] <daveake> lol. I wasn't far off when I tried :)
[23:12] <Randomskk> hehe
[23:12] <daveake> Closer to Steve's though
[23:12] <Laurenceb_> SpeedEvil: seems to be broken
[23:12] <Laurenceb_> sometimes it works
[23:12] <fsphil> with some kind of steerable parachute, that might just be possible
[23:12] <Laurenceb_> about one time in 10 - but the text is screwed
[23:13] <daveake> We should try chain flying. Phil --> England --> Belgium or something :)
[23:13] <Laurenceb_> i got postcript to work in the end
[23:13] <fsphil> what, you find the payload, re-attach it to a second balloon?
[23:13] <fsphil> that'd be pretty unique!
[23:13] <daveake> Yep!
[23:14] <daveake> But even 2 completely separate flights, with the middle team retrieving the 1st payload after they launch theirs
[23:14] <daveake> s/but/or
[23:15] <fsphil> the winds never seem to go that way very often
[23:15] <fsphil> although with something like an overnight float it might be more likely
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[23:16] <fsphil> try to find it the next morning
[23:17] <daveake> Cambridge would be the international HAB hub
[23:19] <nick_> Lunar_Lander: yes, I'm back
[23:19] <Lunar_Lander> that is good
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[23:19] <Lunar_Lander> I wanted to say that I am also trying on constructing a HAB for research
[23:19] <nick_> What for?
[23:19] <nick_> And where?
[23:19] <Lunar_Lander> but I'm a B.Sc. student still
[23:19] <Lunar_Lander> in North-Western Germany
[23:20] <nick_> ok
[23:20] <Lunar_Lander> and we are still on working out the goals
[23:20] <nick_> What kind of thing do you want to measure?
[23:20] <Lunar_Lander> we are looking at quite a number of things, light measurements, cosmic rays, electrostatics, dust
[23:21] <Lunar_Lander> but we are still working on what exactly we want to measure for answering which questions
[23:21] <nick_> Who are you working with?
[23:22] <daveake> fsphil You mentioned before about hab-->hab comms .... what could we use as a receiver for that?
[23:22] <nick_> A group of students or just a supervisor?
[23:23] <Lunar_Lander> I'm currently working on my own with a professor who is interested in the project, but his main field of work is macromolecular physics
[23:23] <daveake> Would need a sensitive receiver and more than a bit of work on the decoding I assume
[23:23] <Randomskk> daveake: or zigbees
[23:23] <Lunar_Lander> also I got a good contact to a professor for electrical engineering who built a balloon before
[23:23] <nick_> Cool
[23:23] <daveake> hmmm... would that work? Legal?
[23:24] <nick_> I don't have anyone with experience to work with.
[23:24] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[23:24] <Lunar_Lander> :(
[23:25] <nick_> Well, not balloon experience.
[23:25] <nick_> We have a lifetime experience of making particle detectors (or my supervisor does)
[23:26] <natrium42> do it, Lunar_Lander
[23:26] <Lunar_Lander> yeah natrium42
[23:26] <Lunar_Lander> now I can resume work on i
[23:26] <Lunar_Lander> *it
[23:27] <natrium42> excellent
[23:28] <fsphil> daveake, not sure yet -- the nrx2 probably isn't sensitive enough
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[23:29] <natrium42> Lunar_Lander: fuer die bundesrepublik!
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[23:30] <Lunar_Lander> xD yeah
[23:30] <Lunar_Lander> nick_: from where in the UK are you?
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[23:32] Action: fsphil is tracking a radiosonde again -- sounds like it's being spun about pretty hard up there
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[23:35] <nick_> Oxford
[23:35] <Lunar_Lander> ohh
[23:35] <Lunar_Lander> nicer
[23:35] <Lunar_Lander> -r
[23:35] <nick_> But I only just moved back here from Geneva.
[23:35] <natrium42> 0xF0RD
[23:35] <Lunar_Lander> cool
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[23:56] <NigeyS> hey Dan
[00:00] --- Tue Dec 6 2011