highaltitude.log.20111130

[00:00] <jcoxon> NigeyS, my antenna setup is bad as well
[00:00] <NigeyS> ahh that'd not help :(
[00:00] <jcoxon> canterbury is in a dip
[00:00] <jcoxon> so not much alt
[00:01] <NigeyS> similar thing here, i'm only 30m ASL :(
[00:02] <NigeyS> just sorting out the notam for ATS-1
[00:02] <NigeyS> going for 2nd weekend in January
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[00:20] <jcoxon> oooo my arduino based TNC manage to decode a packet
[00:21] <NigeyS> schweet
[00:21] <jcoxon> only 1 in quite a few
[00:21] <jcoxon> computer is decoding more
[00:21] <NigeyS> ive lost a chip somewhere grrr
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[00:29] <jcoxon> oh sugar
[00:29] <jcoxon> its now working with a globaltuner feed
[00:30] <jcoxon> this is awesome
[00:30] <jcoxon> watching it populate the xastir old school map
[00:31] <NigeyS> :D yey
[00:32] <jcoxon> now to get it working with my radio
[00:32] <jcoxon> all through this arduino tnc
[00:35] <Darkside> jcoxon: ugh, arduino TNC...
[00:35] <Darkside> using that arduino tnc code?
[00:36] <NigeyS> Darkside, email me ure postal address, ill pop that balloon in the post tomorrow
[00:36] <Darkside> heh
[00:36] <Darkside> i'll find a local distributor
[00:36] <Darkside> theres a balloon shop nearby
[00:36] <NigeyS> ooo
[00:37] <NigeyS> qualatex 36inch :)
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[00:38] <Darkside> NigeyS: i'll see what the local party shops have
[00:38] <NigeyS> okies :D
[00:39] <NigeyS> PicoHorus .. \o/
[00:39] <NigeyS> happy chasing if it floats though lol
[00:42] <jcoxon> Darkside, well its more an avr tnc
[00:42] <Darkside> yeah still
[00:43] <jcoxon> actually it works well
[00:43] <jcoxon> no arduino libs etc
[00:43] <jcoxon> interesting un scientific experiement: https://sites.google.com/site/ki4mcw/Home/arduino-tnc
[00:43] <Darkside> yeah i've seen that
[00:47] <Darkside> NigeyS: they stock the qualatex balloons
[00:47] <Darkside> in lots of colours
[00:47] <Darkside> :-)
[00:47] <Darkside> 90cm ones
[00:47] <NigeyS> awsome! get silver
[00:47] <NigeyS> green + australian sun = bad
[00:47] <Darkside> heh
[00:48] <NigeyS> and i swear i just heard thunder :|
[00:49] <Darkside> http://www.balloonsgalore.com.au/balloon-colour-charts/foil-balloons/round-foils/
[00:50] <NigeyS> oof bright pink!
[00:50] <Darkside> haha
[00:50] <Darkside> i'd get white
[00:50] <Darkside> or silver
[00:50] <Darkside> or, if it was night-time - black
[00:50] <Darkside> :P
[00:50] <NigeyS> lol white would be ideal
[00:51] <NigeyS> http://www.meteorologica.info/strikestar/index.htm
[00:52] <NigeyS> that yellow blobs moving my way
[00:53] <SpeedEvil> np: Mr Blobby - Blobby Blobby Blobby!
[00:54] <NigeyS> lol!
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[01:28] <Lunar_Lander> good night!
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[04:29] <Paradoxial> Goodnight everyone
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[04:46] <tstowe> hi all
[04:47] <tstowe> talkative bunch
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[08:53] <costyn> morning
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[10:00] <TimZaman> someone is offering me free Freescale samples
[10:00] <TimZaman> which one should i ask for
[10:02] <TimZaman> seriously
[10:02] <TimZaman> how the hell do you get the GoPro out of its case
[10:02] <TimZaman> i should be a mechanical engineer for christ sake
[10:03] <SamSilver> mine came out when I crashed at 85km/h on a sharp right hand bend
[10:03] <SamSilver> you could try that
[10:03] <TimZaman> no i mean unboxing
[10:03] <TimZaman> ah i see
[10:04] <TimZaman> with a knife around the thingy
[10:04] Nick change: SamSilver -> SamSilver_
[10:04] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpftN-q2SKs&feature=player_profilepage#t=48s
[10:04] <SpeedEvil> This is the approved method.
[10:05] <TimZaman> Ah i see
[10:06] <TimZaman> jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezus loomk at his shack
[10:06] <TimZaman> wwtttffff
[10:06] <fsphil> haha, it took me ages getting the gopro out of the box too
[10:06] <TimZaman> yeah i just figured it out
[10:06] <fsphil> they stuck it down with glue -- it's really difficult to open it without ripping the box
[10:08] <TimZaman> oh fck it im wripping the box
[10:08] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DB6t3cjwVzU&feature=feedrec_grec_index - random tool porn.
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[10:11] <TimZaman> christ that thing is strong
[10:11] <TimZaman> nothing that i havent seen popeye do though
[10:13] <SamSilver_> later
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[10:16] <TimZaman> has anyone flown a hab with a gopro in his case?
[10:18] <Darkside> many times
[10:19] <Darkside> like, every time we've flown a gopro almost
[10:20] <TimZaman> how do y ou avoid condensation
[10:20] <TimZaman> doesnt it 'blow up'?
[10:20] <Darkside> uhmm
[10:20] <Darkside> nope
[10:20] <Darkside> well, theres a hole cut in the side of the case
[10:20] <Darkside> for power
[10:20] <TimZaman> okay so it is not enclosed
[10:20] <Darkside> its mostly enclosed
[10:21] <TimZaman> but not with the hole
[10:21] <Darkside> yeah
[10:21] <Darkside> i think its still mostly waterproof tho
[10:21] <Darkside> hmm juxta isnt here
[10:21] <TimZaman> yeah okay but there is a hole
[10:21] <Darkside> anyway, its not airtight
[10:21] <TimZaman> so it can level out the pressure differences
[10:21] <Darkside> yep
[10:21] <Darkside> and temp too
[10:21] <Darkside> we havent had condensation yet
[10:22] <Darkside> TimZaman: you've seen our videos, right?
[10:22] <TimZaman> the first ones yeah
[10:22] <TimZaman> the last ones i dont thin you publish that much about it
[10:22] <Darkside> not yet anyway, no
[10:22] <TimZaman> at least not on projecthorus.org
[10:23] <TimZaman> Darkside: about the beagleboard, i think it's a hardware issue that cant cope with the temperature
[10:23] <TimZaman> last times the temperature got significantly lower than before
[10:23] <Darkside> the PLL dies
[10:23] <Darkside> i bet thats it
[10:24] <Darkside> i reckon i'll put a regulator on the beaglebone shield i'm making, and try and thermally couple it to the main board
[10:24] <TimZaman> coupling as in heating up the ground or something?
[10:24] <Darkside> so instead of using a switchmode regulator, use a linear one, and use the waste heat to warm the processor
[10:24] <TimZaman> with some 'meshed' hot wire i have also made a heater system for my camera
[10:25] <TimZaman> right
[10:25] <TimZaman> yeah because the weird thing is
[10:25] <fsphil> does the beagleboard have a temperature sensor?
[10:25] <TimZaman> is that it does still give power through the usb ports
[10:25] <Darkside> TimZaman: well it will
[10:25] <TimZaman> fsphil: no but i always have something in it that does
[10:25] <Darkside> its just the cpu starts running at the wrong clock speed or something
[10:25] <Darkside> and everything crashes
[10:26] <fsphil> does the crash happen at the same temperature each time?
[10:26] <TimZaman> Darkside: but since it did work on the first flight, some very proper isolation would do too
[10:26] <Darkside> yeah
[10:26] <TimZaman> fsphil: well yeah kinda
[10:26] <Darkside> thats the other option
[10:26] <Darkside> make it properly insulated
[10:26] <Darkside> let it heat itself up
[10:26] <TimZaman> fsphil: at least, at the same kind of height and flighttime
[10:26] <Darkside> TimZaman: we'll be testing it well
[10:26] <TimZaman> yeah i should just put it in the freezer :)
[10:26] <Darkside> putting it into a thermal test chamber for a long time
[10:26] <Darkside> nah not cold enough
[10:27] <TimZaman> Darkside: all my logfiles just sayd absolutely nothing after crashing
[10:27] <Darkside> we'll drop it to -50 or below
[10:27] <TimZaman> Darkside: that seems a bit muh
[10:27] <TimZaman> much
[10:27] <Darkside> not at all
[10:27] <Darkside> we've had payloads get that cold before
[10:27] <TimZaman> ehh
[10:27] <fsphil> possible the storage failed? does flash work well <0?
[10:27] <Darkside> fsphil: it should work fine
[10:27] <TimZaman> yeah okay but you need to power the thing which means dissipating on the regulator
[10:27] <TimZaman> fsphil: no no not storage problem
[10:27] <TimZaman> it worked entirely on its RAM
[10:27] <Darkside> TimZaman: yeah but parts of the board could still get to low temps
[10:28] <TimZaman> but stored images on flash only when the image was sent
[10:28] <fsphil> operating range seems to be 0 to 70c
[10:28] <TimZaman> fsphil: yeah
[10:28] <Darkside> fsphil: lol
[10:28] <Darkside> oh dear
[10:28] <Darkside> well
[10:28] <TimZaman> Darkside: yeah ok ay true, but not with proper insulatiaon as ive shwon in the first fliight
[10:28] <TimZaman> that was a 2hr+ flight
[10:28] <Darkside> the other thing i'll be doing is stripping away EVERYTHING that isnt required
[10:28] <TimZaman> Darkside: you're such a haxor
[10:28] <Darkside> as in, peripherals get shut down
[10:29] <Darkside> no running ubuntu
[10:29] <TimZaman> hahaha
[10:29] <Darkside> it'll probably be based on angstrom
[10:29] <TimZaman> oh no thats a big improvemeny
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[10:29] <Darkside> ethernet may stay, at least for debugging
[10:29] <Darkside> and there was the discussion about trying a 1mbit wifi link
[10:30] <Darkside> so we could tack on a small wifi router board alongside
[10:30] <fsphil> mmmmm
[10:30] <TimZaman> hahahaha
[10:30] <Darkside> or use a usb wifi card
[10:30] <Darkside> but thats getting a bit dodgy
[10:30] <fsphil> ssh into a payload in flight
[10:30] <Darkside> fsphil: yep
[10:30] <Darkside> thats the idea
[10:30] <Darkside> or at least rsh
[10:30] <Darkside> or telnet
[10:31] <TimZaman> wont help if it freezes though :)
[10:31] <jcoxon> this Astra flight by the uni of southampton - is it ukhas standard? can't work it out from the email
[10:31] <TimZaman> btw, Darkside you have really lost very very little flights, correct?
[10:31] <Darkside> TimZaman: we've lost 2 payloads, one was intentional, one wasn't
[10:31] <TimZaman> out of 25?
[10:32] <Darkside> out of 20
[10:32] <Darkside> the intentional one was the altitude record
[10:32] <Darkside> the unintentional one was the cross-country floater
[10:32] <Darkside> but we kind of didn't expect to get that one back anyway
[10:32] <Darkside> we've never lost an expensive payload
[10:34] <gonzo_> have to budget the value against the cost of petrol to go and chase it!
[10:35] <TimZaman> back away?
[10:35] <TimZaman> was that the one that crashed some miles of the coast?
[10:35] <TimZaman> in east oz?
[10:36] <Darkside> TimZaman: eh?
[10:36] <TimZaman> and jeeezus by the way, my last launch; when it dropped
[10:36] <Darkside> horus 16 was the one that floated for a long time
[10:36] <TimZaman> the amount of drift in the radio
[10:36] <TimZaman> jeeeeezus i couldnt keep up with it
[10:36] <Darkside> TimZaman: this is completely normal
[10:37] <TimZaman> so much drift than?
[10:37] <TimZaman> then
[10:37] <Darkside> yes, lots of drift is normal
[10:37] <Darkside> though we keep up with it fine
[10:37] <TimZaman> yeah but not for me
[10:37] <TimZaman> it took about 20 seconds for it to get all the way from one side of the spectrum of dlfldigi to the other
[10:37] <Darkside> get better at re-tuning?
[10:38] <Darkside> yeah
[10:38] <Darkside> keep re-tuning it
[10:38] <TimZaman> i dont have to tell you i've flown 4 before
[10:38] <TimZaman> but this time it was amazing
[10:38] <Darkside> or get someone else to run a laptop dedicated to dealing with the telemetry
[10:38] <TimZaman> i just think i should isolate my box a bit better
[10:38] <TimZaman> it did only have a multiplex 2mm thick top though :)
[10:39] <Darkside> oh dear
[10:39] <Darkside> yeah thats not good
[10:39] <TimZaman> well
[10:39] <TimZaman> why not
[10:39] <TimZaman> the flight before i used a even thinner payloadbox
[10:39] <Darkside> not enough insulation
[10:39] <Darkside> http://vimeo.com/32753872
[10:39] <Darkside> you can see our payloads in that
[10:39] <Darkside> theres some closeups near the end
[10:39] <TimZaman> http://www.timzaman.nl/?p=1886&lang=en
[10:40] <TimZaman> that payload worked all fine
[10:40] <TimZaman> it was a box for crayons
[10:40] <Darkside> oh god thats just asking for trounle
[10:40] <Darkside> trouble*
[10:40] <TimZaman> why? it worked all fine
[10:40] <Darkside> and you used a LiPO!
[10:40] <Darkside> oh god
[10:40] <TimZaman> Darkside: do i have to restate that it worked fine?
[10:40] <Darkside> sure it'll work when its warm
[10:40] <TimZaman> it got to 36km
[10:41] <Darkside> but when that drops to -50 in the tropopause its going to have problems
[10:41] <Darkside> i think you just got a fluke on that one
[10:41] <Darkside> do not assume that something like that is always going to work
[10:41] <Darkside> and don't use lipos - ever.
[10:41] <TimZaman> nonsense
[10:41] <Darkside> if the lipos get to -20 degrees its bye bye payload
[10:41] <TimZaman> i use lipos for the beagleboard
[10:41] <Darkside> if you're drawing 2A from them continuously then maybe
[10:42] <TimZaman> well i've now flown the beagleboard with lipo's 3 times
[10:42] <TimZaman> and it wasnt the lipos
[10:42] <Darkside> but again, if the lipos freeze then you'll lose it
[10:42] <TimZaman> I get it.
[10:42] <Darkside> sre you sure about that?
[10:42] <TimZaman> yes
[10:42] <TimZaman> the carrier stayed allways
[10:42] <Darkside> true
[10:42] <Darkside> but teh carrier will stay with a low battery voltage anyway
[10:42] <TimZaman> and it powered the GM864 that had the python script which w orked great
[10:42] <Darkside> those modules will broadcast carrier with 2.8v
[10:43] <TimZaman> Darkside: okay fine, but then sti ll, why did the GM862 breakout that i make worked every time so far?
[10:43] <Darkside> what did the GM864 run off? 5V or 3.3
[10:43] <Darkside> i guess its more tolerant of the extreme cold temps
[10:43] <TimZaman> http://www.timzaman.nl/?p=1247&lang=en
[10:44] <TimZaman> its powered by usb which is powered inturn by the beagleboard battery module which runs of lipos
[10:44] <Darkside> ok
[10:44] <TimZaman> but okay i am with you, but still, for short flights, meh.. if its well insulated it will work
[10:44] <Darkside> i'm still sticking eith energizer lithium AAs
[10:45] <TimZaman> as i have demonstrated a few times now
[10:45] <Darkside> we know they work at -50
[10:45] <TimZaman> yup
[10:45] <jcoxon> TimZaman, how did you get 2A through usb?
[10:45] <TimZaman> jcoxon: a very neat regulator
[10:45] <jcoxon> wow
[10:45] <TimZaman> http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9275
[10:45] <TimZaman> 6A :P
[10:45] <TimZaman> very very very very friggin efficient
[10:46] <TimZaman> jcoxon: this is the assembled board i used
[10:46] <TimZaman> http://www.timzaman.nl/?p=1195&lang=en
[10:46] <jcoxon> the nice thing about gm862 is you can run them direct off a lipo
[10:46] <Darkside> thats a nice little switchmode
[10:46] <TimZaman> takes four lipo's, 2x2 in parellel
[10:46] <TimZaman> jcoxon: yeah but i give the gps info to the beagleboard as well
[10:46] <TimZaman> jcoxon: though it crashes at 24km
[10:46] <Darkside> now this is the interesting thing
[10:47] <Darkside> you should see the lowest temps around 12km alt, not 24km
[10:47] <TimZaman> no no
[10:47] <TimZaman> i mean
[10:47] <TimZaman> at 24km the gps doesnt work
[10:47] <Darkside> the gps cuts out?
[10:47] <Darkside> oh
[10:47] <TimZaman> ask natrium
[10:47] <TimZaman> yeah
[10:47] <TimZaman> but indeed as you say
[10:47] <TimZaman> every time
[10:47] <TimZaman> the beagleobard crashed at 12km
[10:47] <TimZaman> wait let me check for exact beagleboard failures
[10:47] <Darkside> temp issue for sure
[10:47] <costyn> TimZaman: hi, so are you gonna stop using the beagleboard or try heating it up?
[10:47] <Darkside> i can't remember who suggested it might be the PLL
[10:47] <Darkside> but i reckon thats the problem
[10:48] <TimZaman> costyn: use proper insulation
[10:48] <Darkside> TimZaman: a beagleboard is kind of overkill for SSDV
[10:48] <Darkside> tbh
[10:48] <Darkside> i've got SSDV working on an ATMega328
[10:48] <Darkside> but it means you're limited to that particular 4d systems camera
[10:48] <Darkside> and not any generic usb webcam
[10:49] <TimZaman> last string: $$PD4TASSDV,807,13:50:18,52.1259,5.4594,11328.7,11*6373
[10:49] <TimZaman> so 11.3km
[10:49] <Darkside> whats the temp info?
[10:49] <costyn> TimZaman: was that on both payloads?
[10:49] <Darkside> or wasnt there any
[10:49] <Darkside> next time have a temp sensor stuck to the main procesor
[10:49] <Darkside> use some thermal paste or something and stuck a DS18B20 to the chip
[10:50] <Darkside> will be very interesting to see the data
[10:50] <TimZaman> costyn: the first beagleboard pyaload was well insulated and worked fine.. the second and third cut out bettween 11km and 13km
[10:50] <TimZaman> Darkside: ill be receiving a pandaboard shortly
[10:50] <TimZaman> and beaglebone in a few months i guess
[10:50] <costyn> TimZaman: yea I was gonna say, that 1st one worked beautifully
[10:50] <Darkside> and oyu're using that for SSDV?
[10:50] <Darkside> talk about overkill
[10:50] <Darkside> jeez
[10:50] <Darkside> sure, its an easy solution to the problem
[10:50] <Darkside> but goddamn
[10:51] <Darkside> then again i'm planning on using the beaglebone as an APRS digipeater
[10:51] <Darkside> and i could do that using an atmega too
[10:51] <jcoxon> Darkside, yeah that would be easy on an atmega
[10:52] <jcoxon> i've come to the conclusion that where i live is the worst place in the world for radio
[10:52] <Darkside> jcoxon: not really
[10:52] <Darkside> theres a lot involved in a digipeater
[10:52] <Darkside> i'd try and do the AFSK demodulation externally, using some kid of PLL chip
[10:52] <jcoxon> not just intepreting the incoming string, changing it then retransmitting
[10:53] <Darkside> also dealing with the data, making it accept instructions
[10:53] <jcoxon> so a full digipeater, fair enough
[10:53] <Darkside> only retransmitting packets with certain paths
[10:53] <Darkside> yes
[10:53] <Darkside> with a beaglebone i can use the linux kernal ax25 stuff
[10:53] <Darkside> kernel*
[10:53] <Darkside> and soundmodem
[10:53] <jcoxon> do you find soundmodem is actually good at its job?
[10:54] <eroomde> jcoxon: in canada water?
[10:54] <jcoxon> eroomde, no down in canterbury
[10:54] <Darkside> jcoxon: haven't played with it enough
[10:54] <jcoxon> Darkside, would be interested in your thoughts, i'm not a big fan
[10:54] <Darkside> i've got 'set up an igate for north spencer gulf' on my todo list
[10:54] <Darkside> i may end up using an external TNC
[10:54] <Darkside> for that one anyway
[10:55] <TimZaman> Darkside: you are not telling me overkill is a problem i hope
[10:55] <Darkside> TimZaman: it can be
[10:55] <Darkside> more points of failure
[10:55] <TimZaman> you go ahead and judge images wether they are good or not, and use a decent camera to take pictures
[10:55] <jcoxon> eroomde, my flat here is a new build so like a faraday cage
[10:55] <Darkside> TimZaman: we do take decent pictures
[10:55] <TimZaman> well not really
[10:55] <Darkside> we just don't bother trying to transmit them live (at the moment)
[10:55] <TimZaman> ;)
[10:55] <Darkside> and when we do go for live transmission, we'll be doing 23cm ATV
[10:56] <Darkside> and sending full colour video
[10:56] <TimZaman> yeah the transmitting its what the problem is with cameras from usb like the canon
[10:56] <TimZaman> that'd be sweet
[10:56] <TimZaman> im a big ssdv fan though
[10:56] <Darkside> we'll be using a gopro as the camera for the ATV stuff
[10:56] <TimZaman> wow sheit
[10:56] <TimZaman> that's neat
[10:56] <TimZaman> 60fps ;)
[10:56] <Darkside> so we can record at the same time
[10:56] <eroomde> how much pwr Tx?
[10:57] <Darkside> 1W
[10:57] <Darkside> gonna need a dish on the ground
[10:57] <eroomde> hellyeah
[10:57] <Darkside> we already know its going to be a pain in teh ass to do
[10:57] <eroomde> which band?
[10:57] <Darkside> 23cm
[10:57] <Darkside> 1280MHz
[10:58] <Darkside> we'll need at least 20something dBi of gain on the ground
[10:58] <Darkside> to get full colour video anyway
[10:59] <eroomde> shoot for 2m or something
[10:59] <eroomde> that'll fix it :)
[10:59] <Darkside> eh?
[10:59] <SpeedEvil> Fairly easy.
[10:59] <Darkside> we can't do video on 2m...
[10:59] <Darkside> i don't know if we can do it on 70cm either
[10:59] <eroomde> no the dish diameter
[10:59] <Darkside> we've lost the old ATV part of the band
[10:59] <Darkside> oh
[10:59] <Darkside> lol
[11:00] <Darkside> its gotta track tho
[11:00] <gonzo_> 6mtrs then
[11:00] <eroomde> about 26dBi gain by my reckoning
[11:00] <Darkside> we've already goe one guy who has an array of helicals
[11:00] <Darkside> on a tracking mount
[11:00] <Darkside> he uses it for distance records
[11:00] <Darkside> but it'll be good for this too
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[11:01] <Darkside> back in a bit, going to get into bed
[11:02] <TimZaman> its so funny how everyone always have gloves on and doing things with the balloon like a doctor
[11:02] <TimZaman> you should see our launches, hahahah
[11:03] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJzL_wyMahU
[11:03] <SpeedEvil> Reminds me of.
[11:03] <SpeedEvil> (compressed gas, gloves)
[11:04] <TimZaman> SpeedEvil: hahahaha
[11:04] <TimZaman> british tv is awesome
[11:05] <costyn> TimZaman: agreed (on Brit tv)
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[11:05] <TimZaman> especially in contrast to german tv
[11:05] <TimZaman> which is Immensely popular in holland *not*
[11:06] <costyn> TimZaman: I think also because more people speak English than speak German
[11:07] <TimZaman> costyn do you ever skydive like that in holland?
[11:07] <costyn> TimZaman: sure, although I've recently stopped skydiving; not enough fun any more for the money and time it requires
[11:07] <SpeedEvil> Isn't it illegal to be more than 10m above sea-level in holland?
[11:07] <costyn> SpeedEvil: hehe
[11:08] <TimZaman> SpeedEvil: actually you get a ticket, yeah
[11:08] <TimZaman> you get a ticket for anything in holland, really.
[11:08] <costyn> TimZaman: I've jumped at every dropzone (there are 12 or so) except one here in the Netherlands
[11:08] <TimZaman> i was on a boat the other day, and we got pulled over and got a 60E fine for not having a fire extinguisher on it
[11:09] <TimZaman> costyn: that sounds (among other awesome things) costly
[11:09] <costyn> TimZaman: it's not too bad... 25 euro's a jump is about the average here in NL, in Belgium you can jump for as low as 16E a jump (to 4km) if you are a member
[11:09] <TimZaman> what is funny is, that in mexico (where my girlfriend is from) it is normal to "Tip" the police officers as well, as you would with a waiter
[11:09] <TimZaman> i thought that was neat
[11:10] <TimZaman> costyn: wow jezus that's cheap
[11:10] <TimZaman> Daniela was really screaming when she saw your video haha
[11:11] <costyn> TimZaman: hehe thx, it's an old video from 2006, but still one of the best memories in my skydiving carreer
[11:12] <TimZaman> g2g
[11:12] <costyn> too bad we as a team those days couldn't get our act together and jump together more often; such nice tight formations haven't really been done since
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[11:13] <fsphil> that's on my list of things to do :)
[11:13] <costyn> fsphil: a tandem jump is a lot of fun, very expensive, but fun and you can cross it off your list
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[12:17] Nick change: bigcw -> bcw-AFK
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[12:20] <jusis808> which is the most precise internet resource for balloon trajectory prdiction?
[12:21] <costyn> jusis808: I think everyone here uses the habhub one: http://habhub.org/predict/
[12:23] <fsphil> they all use data from the same source afaik (NOAA)
[12:23] <fsphil> and habhub is prettier :)
[12:24] <daveake> :)
[12:24] <daveake> fsphil Are you intending/hoping/planning to launch Saturday or Sunday?
[12:24] <fsphil> still hoping to yea
[12:24] <daveake> I meant which day :)
[12:25] <fsphil> one of them :) not sure yet
[12:25] <daveake> Sunday looks better for me (more time to get ready + lower chance of a payload/sea interface situation)
[12:25] <jusis808> at habhub what i should fill in GFS Definition: and Lat/Lon Deltas:
[12:26] <daveake> Dunno; I never touch those
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[12:32] <jusis808> from your expierence, how precise was your prediction at habhub and real?
[12:37] <fsphil> depends how far ahead the prediction is, and how accurate the parameters you enter are
[12:37] <fsphil> my last flight was out by a fair bit, but only because I underfilled the balloon
[12:37] <fsphil> the general course of the flight was spot on, just further
[12:38] <fsphil> it also burst higher than I expected
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[12:41] <jusis808> and in kilometers? aprox?
[12:42] <fsphil> less than 10km, but I was way out with the ascent rate
[12:42] <fsphil> with accurate parameters the predictor will get you in the right field :)
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[12:43] <Dutch-Mill> ping benoxley
[12:44] <jusis808> thank you, i`m suprised about distance, more than 130km, is it regular?
[12:45] <fsphil> 130km?
[12:45] <costyn> 130km is not that much
[12:45] <jusis808> yeah, 130km, yesterday was 174km
[12:45] <costyn> from what I've seen
[12:45] <fsphil> oh is this the range of your prediction?
[12:45] <fsphil> yea the winds can carry a flight a very long way
[12:46] <jusis808> from launch to impact, distance by air
[12:46] <fsphil> my flight this weekend should travel about 200km
[12:49] <jusis808> i have sea near me at opposite directon that prediction shows, and i want to be sure :) that prediction is right, so and there can`t be such force of nature that might turn suddenly my balloon 180 degrees to oposite, to sea, right?
[12:49] <fsphil> yea that's very unlikely
[12:49] <fsphil> how far ahead is the prediction though?
[12:50] <jusis808> 2 hours
[12:51] <fsphil> ooh you're launching in 2 hours? that'll be fine
[12:51] <Dutch-Mill> ping costyn
[12:52] <fsphil> it can sometimes change up to 2 days ahead
[12:53] <costyn> Dutch-Mill: howdy
[12:53] <Dutch-Mill> Costyn : The predition for the ASTRA 1/2 flight 7th december : http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=787a9a28cbf144ac3c0f666afeb14bf26e7b4753
[12:54] <costyn> Dutch-Mill: heh nice
[12:54] <Dutch-Mill> predicton
[12:54] <costyn> Dutch-Mill: might land in Elesium spa :)
[12:54] <fsphil> lol
[12:55] <costyn> get pics of naked people
[12:55] <Dutch-Mill> So if we al lucky it lands in our backyard ;-)
[12:55] <costyn> Dutch-Mill: yea
[12:55] <costyn> Dutch-Mill: I finally have a radio, an 817; have an antenna too, just need to order coax and connectors and figure out how to route the coax from my roof to my living room
[12:56] <Dutch-Mill> what kind of antenna?
[12:56] <costyn> Dutch-Mill: Icom AH-7000 (discone)
[12:57] <costyn> would you guys recommend 10mm RG-213 or some form of 7mm H-2007 or Aircell 7 ? Price differences aren't that big
[12:58] <fsphil> might be easier to get plugs for rg-213
[12:59] <costyn> fsphil: well there's n-connectors for 7mm: http://www.coaxshop.nl/product_info.php/cPath/2_5/products_id/10
[12:59] <Dutch-Mill> I'm going to build a lindenblad for 'HaBBing' see : http://www.qsl.net/nwlarn/sat/70ParaLindy.pdf
[12:59] <costyn> Dutch-Mill: where do you buy your radio bits?
[12:59] <jusis808> what kind of transmitters are you using?
[13:00] <fsphil> costyn, which cable has the lowest loss at 400mhz?
[13:00] <costyn> fsphil: good question, not sure
[13:00] <Dutch-Mill> it depends : Jacobs (Breda) or Radiobeurs ( Dordrecht)
[13:00] <jusis808> ia hev vx8dr, but i found somewhere that it`s against a law, to use such radios in air
[13:00] <fsphil> if there prices are similar, and you cna get plugs, then go for the one with least loss
[13:01] <costyn> fsphil: makes sense, thx
[13:01] <gonzo_> if you are only using the antenna for RX, then put an LNA up at the mast and use whatever cable you want
[13:01] <costyn> just think the 10mm is overkill; 1cm thick cable is gonna be a bitch to route and get around corners
[13:01] <fsphil> rg-213 can be very difficult to route throuhh the house
[13:01] <fsphil> it's very thick cable
[13:01] <costyn> yea
[13:01] <Dutch-Mill> I reccomend Aircell 7 , Aircell 5 is cheaper but not easy to handle
[13:01] <costyn> gonzo_: what is an LNA?
[13:02] <gonzo_> I use CT100, sat TV cable for RX systems, with an LNA up top
[13:02] <gonzo_> LNA = preamp
[13:02] <zyp> low noise amplifier
[13:02] <costyn> Dutch-Mill: the antenna had some form of 7mm already attached... i think that is what it came with
[13:02] <costyn> ah ok thx
[13:02] <fsphil> jusis707, most people in the UK use little low power devices, license exempt but limited to 10mw power
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[13:02] <fsphil> er, jusis808
[13:02] <costyn> jusis808: are you in the UK?
[13:03] <fsphil> in places with sane radio laws, a lot of balloons use amateur radios
[13:03] <fsphil> and just use aprs
[13:04] <Dutch-Mill> fsphil is there a launch on it way ?
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[13:04] <costyn> Dutch-Mill: that lindenblad looks interesting, never seen that design before; annoying how all the measurements are in inches
[13:04] <jusis808> no i`m in Latvia, i have one portable aprs radio yaesu vx8dr and two mobile, for land icom 7000, and kenwood tm-d710a
[13:05] <fsphil> Dutch-Mill, I hope to launch this weekend
[13:05] <fsphil> I believe daveake is too
[13:05] <Dutch-Mill> yes just multiply 25,4 -> mm
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[13:06] <costyn> jusis808: ok, cool; so you're not sure about the laws in Latvia for the vx8dr?
[13:06] <Dutch-Mill> oke fsphil...heavy jetstream this weekend ?
[13:06] <fsphil> Dutch-Mill, indeed - it's going to land in england
[13:07] <Dutch-Mill> on land i hope ;-)
[13:07] <jusis808> it`s against a law to transmit for more than PMR radio power allows
[13:08] <fsphil> lol Dutch-Mill, maybe :)
[13:08] <fsphil> if it bursts too early or too late, it's going to get wet
[13:08] <fsphil> or gets lost in a forest park
[13:09] <Dutch-Mill> oke fsphil i tune in if i can ...seeY 73's
[13:09] <fsphil> it's pretty risky to be honest ;)
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[13:13] <GW8RAK> Costyn, I would recommend Westflex 103 as a good coax at 432MHz
[13:18] <daveake> Dutch-Mill Mine might be heading your way, so tune it to that rather than fsphil's ;)
[13:18] <fsphil> lol
[13:20] <costyn> GW8RAK: thanks, good to know
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[13:20] <fsphil> I keep forgetting to get some of that westflex cable
[13:20] <GW8RAK> Significantly better attenuation than Aircell, but it is a bit stiff
[13:21] <GW8RAK> Use Aircell for small diameter bends and Westflex for any long runs.
[13:21] <fsphil> I'd like to replace the rg213 going up to the colinear but it means going onto the roof
[13:22] <fsphil> suppose I could get an LNA, be a good excuse to go climbing
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[13:23] <GW8RAK> But even with an LNA, there's no point adding 15dB and then loosing 6 of them because of cable losses. For strong signals it's irrelevant, but a long range floater somewhere over Germany needs all components to be optimised
[13:24] <costyn> GW8RAK: well that's where Dutch-Mill and I come in, we're closer to Germany :P
[13:24] <fsphil> was thinking of the LNA+westflex
[13:24] <fsphil> indeed, the planet gets in the way for us
[13:24] <GW8RAK> You'll notice a big difference phil
[13:24] <costyn> GW8RAK: so when you go around bends with aircell, how do connect the aircell to the westflex? Do you use connectors on both bits?
[13:25] <costyn> or is there some magic way to splice them :)
[13:25] <GW8RAK> Yes, you'd have to use connectors. There's a lot of debate about connector losses, but done properly, they are pretty good
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[13:25] <jusis808> at http://www.cusf.co.uk/calc/ launch volume means how much helium i need for balloon? i have only two options for helium, 20l tank - 3.7 cu/m and 40l tank - 7.3 cu/m helium, i got launch volume 3.37 cu/m so i will use all gas from 20l tank, because there is no gauges to find out how much gas is filled in ballon
[13:25] <fsphil> would a 70cm LNA cause me to loose 2m?
[13:26] <fsphil> *lose
[13:26] <GW8RAK> Yes, most preamps have some form of tuning and although you'll get one to cover 70 and 23cm, the strong broadcast signals at VHF mean that filtering is necessary to prevent breakthrough which limits the useable range.
[13:27] <fsphil> drat
[13:27] <fsphil> guess I'll just get the westflex
[13:28] <GW8RAK> http://www.whwestlake.co.uk/ has a cable loss calculator at the bottom
[13:28] <GW8RAK> If you are going up the roof phil, install both a 70cm and 2m preamp.
[13:28] <fsphil> whoa, java applet :)
[13:29] <fsphil> both on the same antenna?
[13:29] <GW8RAK> But you'll need to organise preamp switching between 2 and 70 and then transmit switching.
[13:29] <fsphil> according to that, I have 0.75db loss from the antenna to the attic
[13:29] <GW8RAK> Preamp switching via diode switching and tx via relays
[13:30] <fsphil> W103 would give me 0.375
[13:30] <costyn> is W103 westflex?
[13:30] <GW8RAK> Yes
[13:30] <costyn> any of those aircell?
[13:31] <GW8RAK> Air spaced
[13:31] <fsphil> LDF450 seems the best
[13:33] <costyn> attenuation for 432 MHz for Aircell 7 is 13.6 dB/100m
[13:35] <fsphil> that's about twice the w103 loss
[13:35] <fsphil> no wait, db scale isn't linear
[13:35] <fsphil> or is it?
[13:35] Action: fsphil goes and sits in the corner
[13:35] <costyn> dB is log
[13:36] <GW8RAK> Can feel big debate coming on. dB scale is linear, 1, 2,3 4 etc, but relative to signal strength it is log
[13:36] <costyn> RG213U is 14.8 dB/100m at 400Mhz
[13:36] <GW8RAK> Which makes the difference about a 100 000
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[13:40] <gonzo_> phil, you could put a duplexer at the antenna/loft and use preamps for both bands, then two thin coax feeds down to the shack
[13:40] <gonzo_> though if you want to TX as well, you will still have that cable loss
[13:41] <gonzo_> I have long cable runs down to my shed, so I put the TX amps and preamps down there
[13:42] <gonzo_> so the long cable loss is not a problem
[13:42] <GW8RAK> Forgot about a duplexer
[13:45] <gonzo_> also useful as filters. I have one on my 70cm antennas, to filter off the pickup from my 2mtr antennas.
[13:45] <gonzo_> even after filtering out the 3rd harmonic of 2mtrs there was still enough pickup to flatten the 70cm system.
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[13:58] <fsphil> from my room to the antenna is about 10m
[13:58] <fsphil> the cable is about 5m, into the attic
[13:58] <fsphil> I normally extend it -- but for hab stuff I connect the radio directly to the end of the 5m cable
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[14:12] <gonzo_> that's not a huge distance phil
[14:13] <gonzo_> rg213 should be fine at that distance for 70cm
[14:13] <gonzo_> my feed to the shed is 42mtrs, so that's at least 6dB loss at 70cm
[14:14] <gonzo_> I put the linear with built in preamps in the shed, next to the antennas
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[14:15] <gonzo_> still means that to get 10watt drive to the PA, I need to put 40watts into the cable at the house end
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[14:20] <fsphil> the extension to my room ois rg58 though
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[14:21] <fsphil> 2db loss I think
[14:26] <gonzo_> yep, but lossy for V/UHF
[14:26] <fsphil> so I think if I replace that with some of that westflex stuff for now
[14:26] <gonzo_> 213 is ok. And if poss use N types, not the dreaded PL259
[14:26] <fsphil> that should improve things a bit
[14:26] <fsphil> oh definitely N
[14:26] <gonzo_> good man
[14:27] <fsphil> I hate making PL259's, and they never screw on properly
[14:27] <gonzo_> I use them at HF as well, just because I hate PL259 so much
[14:27] <fsphil> lol
[14:27] <gonzo_> shielded bananna plusgs!
[14:27] <fsphil> sadly all my radios use it for HF
[14:28] <gonzo_> I replace them on my radios is poss
[14:28] <fsphil> well I suppose the 817 has BNC too
[14:28] <fsphil> the antenna on the roof is PL259
[14:28] <fsphil> but I'll have to live with that one :)
[14:28] <gonzo_> file N flanged sockets down to make an oval mounting
[14:28] <fsphil> actually so are all my 70cm yagis
[14:29] <gonzo_> little you can do with antennas, especailly colinears
[14:29] <fsphil> yea
[14:29] <fsphil> there was an N version of it, for a bit more money
[14:29] <fsphil> X50N
[14:29] <gonzo_> my yagi's are all home made, captive cable, mekes easier to wx-proof
[14:30] <fsphil> the stripped-back coax is the height of my antenna making skillz :)
[14:31] <gonzo_> I have perfected a simple mech design for my yagi's. And using a wide bandwidth design, they always work
[14:31] <gonzo_> DL6WU (?) design
[14:32] <gonzo_> there are lots of desighns for higher gain, but they are so critical, that difficult to reproduce. And people get dissapointed
[14:32] <fsphil> I give up on making antennas
[14:33] <fsphil> they never work
[14:33] <costyn> fsphil: so you'd recommmend connecting the cable from my roof antenna to the bnc connector on my 817 instead of the pl-259?
[14:33] <gonzo_> simple folded dipole too. wide mand and easy to wx-proof. And match easilly with a coax 4:1 balun (and balanced feed does not skew the pattern)
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[14:35] <gonzo_> One pl259 in a system is not going to ruin it. But lots of them, with adaptors is just adding lots of losses.
[14:36] <gonzo_> If you had thick coax coming down to the 817, then you may as well use the pl259 on the back. As it's a problem to find wide entry BNC connectors that will go on rg213
[14:36] <costyn> gonzo_: ok, good to know
[14:36] <gonzo_> so you would have a patch lead or adaptor, and that would be more lossy than just using a pl259
[14:37] <gonzo_> straight on the coax and into the radio
[14:37] <costyn> yes that's what I'm planning
[14:38] <gonzo_> lots of swings and roundabouts thinki9mng in antenna systems. It really depends on the application
[14:39] <GW8RAK> If you want/need to use PL259 use the righ angle pressure sleeve ones from Westlake Electronics, rather than the ones with the "solder through the holes design". They are shit
[14:40] <GW8RAK> Have thrown all of those design out and replaced them
[14:40] <eroomde> link pretty please?
[14:42] <GW8RAK> http://g4cqm.www.idnet.com/pdf/connectors-components.pdf also the home of Westflex 103
[14:42] <GW8RAK> And BNC's for large diameter cable
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[14:45] <fsphil> radioworld have the w103 for £2/m
[14:45] <fsphil> that about right?
[14:46] <GW8RAK> Westlake, £1.70
[14:50] <fsphil> £7 for an N plug though
[14:50] <jusis808> how high is it possible to recieve sms from regular gsm phone?
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[14:51] <eroomde> jusis808: helpfully the answer is: it depends
[14:51] <eroomde> but don't plan on anything more than 200-300m
[14:51] <eroomde> but you will occassionally get bizarre exceptions
[14:51] <eroomde> like 2km
[14:51] <eroomde> equally if there's only one cell tower around, it could be like 5km
[14:52] <gonzo_> think the gsm cells limit at 32km from a base, due to timing
[14:52] <eroomde> i can believe that
[14:52] <zyp> that is right
[14:52] <eroomde> we should fly one out to sea to test it
[14:53] <zyp> the limit is 35 km
[14:53] <eroomde> jusis808: for a random bit of england, just assume that it'll only work on the ground, and is basically of no use once airborne
[14:53] <gonzo_> Though not sure how you would fare at altitude, as the base antennas would have most gain along the ground
[14:53] <eroomde> i think any other assumption, unless you really know what you're doing, is not useful to a mission
[14:53] <costyn> i have seen people make calls and send smses from a couple Km up (sitting on the skydiving plane on the way up); so yea it depends
[14:54] <fsphil> making calls in the way down would be more impressive
[14:54] <jusis808> i`m a skydiver too :) on 4km cell phone works
[14:54] <gonzo_> the cell bases in the north sea have 2/3times the range (you willsee that on the coverage maps) to cover the oil rigs
[14:54] <eroomde> ok, you might be in luck then
[14:54] <costyn> fsphil: indeed, there are in-air radio systems for coaching; they use basic radios but very expensive specialist microphones
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[14:55] <eroomde> but we often see things like phones not reaquiring signal on the (fast) way down until quite low
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[14:55] <costyn> jusis808: ah cool :) I knew some Latvian skydivers actually, but that was a couple years ago
[14:55] <gonzo_> that's probably due to the antenna coverage of the cells
[14:55] <gonzo_> why waster lots of expensive RF power transmitting upwards
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[14:56] <costyn> jusis808: guys flying wingsuits, http://www.wingsuit.lv/ you know them?
[14:56] <jusis808> costyn i know them too :)
[14:56] <costyn> heh
[14:56] <gonzo_> but airborne, line of sight, it may be possible to get a connection off the antennas lobes/reflections
[14:56] <jusis808> costyn yeh i know them
[14:57] <costyn> jusis808: cool :)
[14:57] <jusis808> we all are here http://www.freefly.lv/users/
[14:58] <costyn> jusis808: cool, who are you?
[14:58] <jusis808> http://www.freefly.lv/users/?id=88
[14:58] <costyn> cool
[14:59] <costyn> jusis808: i used to be with the Dutch wingsuit team Fly Like Brick: http://www.flylikebrick.com/
[14:59] <fsphil> nice name
[15:00] <eroomde> an interesting hobby crossover going on
[15:00] <eroomde> you could accompany payloads on the way down
[15:00] <eroomde> that would be a hardcore chase
[15:00] <fsphil> hehe
[15:00] <eroomde> grab your payload midair
[15:00] <fsphil> catch the payload in mid air
[15:00] <costyn> when we started with the team we wanted everything to be kind of informal it was a fun name :)
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[15:00] <costyn> hehehe
[15:01] <costyn> it does make payload/parachute testing convenient tho
[15:01] <fsphil> someone should plot their descent on spacenear.us
[15:01] <costyn> or take a payload on a skydive :)
[15:01] <gonzo_> the USAF used to catch the spy satellite film capsules on the way down
[15:01] <jusis808> costyn are you skydiver too?
[15:01] <costyn> jusis808: yes
[15:01] <costyn> jusis808: well, used to be... stopped this year actually
[15:02] <jusis808> how much jumps you made? i have exactly 100
[15:02] <costyn> jusis808: getting into electronics/robotics/radio/high altitude ballooning now :)
[15:02] <fsphil> it would be nice to see the world up there for yourself
[15:02] <costyn> jusis808: i have 1100
[15:02] <fsphil> the view from an easyjet window is good but restricted :)
[15:03] <costyn> fsphil: it is nice, but there's so little time to enjoy the view usually
[15:03] <fsphil> true
[15:03] <costyn> fsphil: which is why I enjoyed wingsuiting, doubles your freefall time
[15:03] <jusis808> yeah, i bought some HAM radios and just started, and found a lot of APRS links, there was info about balloons
[15:04] <daveake> costyn and halves your life expectancy? ;)
[15:04] <daveake> I've seen some videos where guys fly through gaps in rocks ....
[15:04] <costyn> daveake: hehe yea it's not without risk, although you can make that risk as big or small as you want; it's actually quite a safe sport if you buy and fly your parachute conservatively
[15:04] <daveake> .... I think I'd crap myself
[15:05] <fsphil> and everyone below you
[15:05] <costyn> daveake: yes, well that's the extreme end where margins are very small and risks are very high and you really have to konw what you're doing.
[15:05] <number10> chap used to work here killed himself doing the wingsuit thing
[15:05] <daveake> Yep
[15:05] <daveake> Oh
[15:05] <costyn> number10: o yea? what was his name?
[15:05] <costyn> number10: wingsuit world isn't very big
[15:06] <number10> memory is a bit poor and I did not know him well _ I think he died in south africa last year
[15:06] <costyn> hmmm ok
[15:06] <costyn> wingsuit BASE then I guess?
[15:06] <gonzo_> I see a loophole in the UK ham licence!
[15:06] <gonzo_> the Licensee shall not establish or use
[15:06] <gonzo_> the Radio Equipment in any Aircraft or other Airborne Vehicle.
[15:06] <jusis808> i never did wingsuit jumps, i have 90 RW
[15:06] <costyn> jusis808: it's better to wait then :)
[15:07] <GW8RAK> I like your thinking gonzo_ :)
[15:07] <gonzo_> If you are doing ajump, you are not in a vehicle
[15:07] <gonzo_> hehe yep
[15:07] <number10> yes was a base jump
[15:07] <fsphil> I think rocketboy suggested that rockets are not an airborne vehicle too :)
[15:08] <fsphil> I don't think they took that suggestion very well ;)
[15:08] <costyn> number10: yea BASE is already dangerous enough, and if you then add the straightjacket that is a wngsuit, you really have to know what you're doing; so many more things that can go wrong
[15:08] <jusis808> eveyone who doing RW are too afarid to jump alone :)
[15:08] <costyn> hehe
[15:09] <costyn> jusis808: so are you going to launch today?
[15:09] <daveake> If I put a tracker inside a model Buzz Lightyear, and attach him to parachute and balloon, does he suddenly become a "vehicle"? :p
[15:09] <costyn> daveake: :)
[15:09] <jusis808> now just gathering info, i think to do it in next two weeks
[15:09] <costyn> jusis808: ok
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[15:10] <gonzo_> thoyugh no reason not to put aprs in the payload, onlyb to be activated when on the ground
[15:11] <number10> costyn - was geoffrey robson
[15:12] <costyn> number10: ah ok... didn't know him personally but name rings a bell
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[15:17] <costyn> number10: ah I'd actually had an email conversation with him about GPS units
[15:18] <number10> its a small world - well I suppose it is for that sport
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[15:19] <costyn> yea I posted an article on his research on wingsuitnews.com a while back http://www.wingsuitnews.com/2009/12/scientific-paper-on-wingsuit.html
[15:20] <jenny__> everythings connected right, but gps can't get a lock! Anyone got any tips to help it get a lock? Is the groundplane meant to be connected electrically to the gps antenna or does it just sit under the antenna? Any help much appreciated!
[15:22] <number10> off now
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[15:26] <fsphil> jenny__, guessing but I'd say the ground plane needs to be connected to the same ground as the gps unit
[15:27] <Laurenceb> i you are searching for strings in c be careful
[15:27] <gonzo_> if it's a ceramicpatch antenna, I would not expect that a groundplane has much effect.
[15:27] <jenny__> that does sound sensible
[15:27] <jenny__> is there any other techniques to help the gps get a lock?
[15:28] <gonzo_> the ground plane that is doing the work ids the silvered bit on the bottom of the pauch itself
[15:28] <fsphil> other than a clear sky not really
[15:28] <jenny__> http://twitter.com/#!/SomniumBalloon its tweeting its location atm but doesnt know where it is haha!
[15:28] <fsphil> keep wires away from the antenna
[15:28] <fsphil> I found they can stop the receiver egtting a lock
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[15:28] <gonzo_> I've had problems with haing an antenna with lots of gain (intended for a long cable) not working if you cut the cable short
[15:29] <gonzo_> possible just too much signal/noise getting in to the rx, or mabee it's oscillating
[15:29] <jenny__> our antenna is just a small square electronic thing we ordered specially, would you guess its a ceramic patch antenna?
[15:29] <fsphil> the antenna may need power?
[15:29] <fsphil> some gps antennas have a little amplifier
[15:29] <gonzo_> good point phil
[15:30] <fsphil> usually called an active antenna iirc
[15:30] <gonzo_> sure I read in the ublox datasheet that it would not supply power, that would need doing externally
[15:30] <gonzo_> (or refered to as 1 stage/2stage LNA)
[15:31] <jenny__> http%3A%2F%2Fmedia5.rsdelivers.cataloguesolutions.com%2FLargeProductImages%2FR6534111-01.jpg&h=3AQHsnA1kAQGMOYmG5vrRJvXRIwboxEznALRWUdcVGnZm9Q
[15:31] <jenny__> thats the antenna if it looks familiar
[15:31] <jenny__> sorry: http://media5.rsdelivers.cataloguesolutions.com/LargeProductImages/R6534111-01.jpg
[15:31] <costyn> ceramic patch antenna
[15:32] <costyn> passive and does not need a connection to the ground plane
[15:33] <costyn> jenny__: looking at the tweets, the balloon is in the air right now?
[15:33] <jenny__> nope its just testing at the moment with uncalibrated temp sensors
[15:33] <costyn> ah ok
[15:33] <jenny__> hoping to fly this weekend though!
[15:34] <costyn> jenny__: the antenna has a clear view of the sky?
[15:34] <jenny__> yep, we have the antenna basically just sitting on top of a small square of aluminium taped on
[15:34] <fsphil> busy weekend for flights. where abouts you launching jenny__?
[15:34] <jenny__> as the ground plane...
[15:35] <costyn> jenny__: eh, but there's no metal parts from the antenna touching the aluminium is there?
[15:36] <costyn> afaik you don't need a ground plane for the antenna (my setup works ok without it)
[15:36] <jenny__> been told the exact antenna now : http://www.dpie.com/gps/antenna.html its the miniature 3v one
[15:37] <Upu> we got some flights this weekend ?
[15:37] <jenny__> the metal case of the antenna is touching the ground plane
[15:37] <costyn> jenny__: ah ok... this is a different antenna, not sure about this one
[15:37] <fsphil> that antenna is an active one, it needs power
[15:37] <jenny__> yep we hope to fly this sunday depending on weather
[15:37] <Upu> oh ok North sea landing ahoy ? :)
[15:38] <jenny__> indeed
[15:38] <fsphil> the north sea may be well fed this weekend
[15:38] <costyn> fsphil: haha
[15:38] <jenny__> the antenna is powered as it is plugged into: http://www.dpie.com/gps/lasseniq.html
[15:38] <Upu> I fell foul of this one jenny__, on the inventek ISM you had to power the antenna pin to make it wokr
[15:38] <Upu> work
[15:38] <Upu> however do check the data sheets, Lassen you say ?
[15:39] <fsphil> the module might need to be told to provide power
[15:39] <fsphil> not all antennas need it
[15:39] <Upu> I think Rob used that with an active just checking his schematic
[15:39] <jenny__> it has worked before, it just only works sometimes and takes a very long time to get a lock
[15:40] <Upu> lassen iq GPS... which pin is the antenna plugged into jenny__ ?
[15:40] <Upu> oh it plugs into the actual module doesn't it ?
[15:40] <daveake> yes
[15:40] <jenny__> yep the hfl connector
[15:41] <Upu> no idea then
[15:42] <jenny__> hmm when you said you fell foul of this one, was that with this gps module?
[15:42] <daveake> From the Lassen manwell... "The center conductor of the coaxial connector also supplies +3.3 VDC for the Low Noise Amplifier of the active antenna."
[15:42] <Upu> different module, I used a Inventek ISM 300 which have the u.fl connector on it but you still needed to put power to the antenna pin
[15:42] <Upu> see pm jenny__ sent you a link
[15:43] <daveake> Sorry thought we were talking Lassen iQ :)
[15:44] <daveake> I didn't use a ground plane on Buzz but some of those small antennae do recommend one.
[15:44] <gonzo_> I've done some rough clacs with passive antennas. The link budget is marginal with a passive 25mm patch and a bare GPS module (assuming -145dBm for lock from cold)
[15:44] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/ismbreakout2.jpg
[15:45] <daveake> The Lassen can take a while to get a lock. That got me a bit flustered before launch :).
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[15:46] <jenny__> when you say a while?
[15:46] <daveake> I didn't time it, but could have been 10-15 minutes
[15:47] <daveake> In testing it was usually less than 5. Hence the panic
[15:47] <Upu> has it got the time jenny__ ?
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[15:48] <jenny__> unfortunately we dont have our guy with the radio here today so we have to rely on the tweets to test atm
[15:48] <jenny__> so no way of knowing if its got the time
[15:51] <fsphil> jenny__, are you transmitting data on 434mhz?
[15:52] <jenny__> yep
[15:52] <Upu> can you output debug info via serial or something ?
[15:52] <Upu> where are you and are you high up ?
[15:53] <jenny__> we're stuck on uni computers so cant conenct serial
[15:53] <jenny__> we're reasonably high up i think
[15:53] <Upu> what city though ?
[15:54] <jenny__> birmingham
[15:54] <Upu> I'm not going to be able to recieve that
[15:54] <jenny__> south west of
[15:54] <jenny__> are you a long way off?
[15:54] <Upu> west yorkshire
[15:54] <jenny__> ah right
[15:54] <Upu> what frequency ? 434.075 ?
[15:56] <fsphil> there are possibly two other launches this weekend on 434.075 and 434.650
[15:56] <fsphil> we'd better be careful not to clash :)
[15:56] <Upu> I'm not launching my pink would clash with your green
[15:57] <Upu> meh no chance of me recieving I left my protoboard payload on test at home so thats sort swamping 434.650 atm
[15:57] <fsphil> lol
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[15:57] <Upu> $$AVA,5241,15:57:31,53.752482,-1.817792,261,7,22.93,23.6,6460,0.33,G*8363
[15:57] <fsphil> my payload is actually yellow, the cameras sees it as green
[15:58] <jenny__> we used the guide http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[15:58] <jenny__> to connect the transmitter
[15:59] <jenny__> but yerh 434.075 i belive
[15:59] <fsphil> do you know what time you're launching?
[16:00] <jenny__> We are not sure yet, it realy depends on the weather and if we have everything ready in time
[16:02] <fsphil> my payload is on 434.075 too -- I'm leaning towards a sunday launch at about 10am
[16:03] <jenny__> Where are you launching from, as if ours is not ready, it wopuld be good to try and track yours as practice instead
[16:04] <fsphil> middle of N.Ireland, landing somewhere near yorkshire I think
[16:04] <fsphil> well that's the plan
[16:04] <fsphil> it could end up in the sea
[16:07] <fsphil> most likely a tree on some inaccessible hill :)
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[16:07] <Upu> most likely
[16:07] <jenny__> fsphil because your looking for wind and we're not we'll never be launching on the same day as you and this weekend looks to be pretty windy!
[16:07] <jenny__> i doubt we will be launching to be honest
[16:07] <Upu> I wouldn't
[16:08] <fsphil> I wouldn't recommend it either ;)
[16:08] <jenny__> it is only a tester launch though to 10 km
[16:08] <fsphil> if it's raining or snowing, or windoy on the ground, I probably don't be launching either
[16:08] <fsphil> windy*
[16:08] <Upu> Mr Miller mailed me today to apologise for the long delay
[16:08] <fsphil> haha
[16:08] <fsphil> I got that too
[16:09] <jenny__> ?*
[16:09] <jenny__> if you are launching would we be able to track it from birmingham>
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[16:09] <Upu> yep you would jenny__
[16:09] <Dan-K2VOL> the government is certainly sorry for preventing the amateur balloonists from launching any more frequently than the government wishes
[16:09] <Dan-K2VOL> :-P
[16:10] <Upu> they work for US !
[16:10] <jenny__> we will listen out for it!
[16:10] <fsphil> people in london have managed it jenny__ so the odds are good -- plus this one is drifting east
[16:10] <jenny__> sounds good
[16:11] <fsphil> it's transmitting images too, though the current dl-fldigi won't display them perfectly
[16:12] <Upu> oh reminds me
[16:12] <Upu> linky pls fsphil
[16:12] <fsphil> beta?
[16:12] <Upu> whatever I need
[16:12] <fsphil> http://www.sanslogic.co.uk/files/dl-fldigi-3.21.13-fsphil-github-20110908b_setup.exe
[16:12] <fsphil> that'll decode them fine
[16:13] <fsphil> there's a sample on www.sanslogic.co.uk/ssdv
[16:13] <fsphil> if that decodes then you're set
[16:13] <costyn> fsphil: smart :)
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[16:18] <Dan-K2VOL> someone flying today?
[16:19] <NigeyS> omg
[16:19] <NigeyS> Mr Hague said he was demanding the immediate closure of the Iranian embassy in London, with all its staff to leave the UK within 48 hours.
[16:19] <NigeyS> boom boom
[16:19] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm haven't been keeping up with any news media, suppose I should check
[16:19] <NigeyS> tut! :p
[16:19] <NigeyS> so thats the next war in the middle east lined up *sigh*
[16:21] <Upu> yay for teh oil
[16:21] <Upu> I mean freedom
[16:21] <NigeyS> lol
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[16:29] <daveake> Mr Miller has never apologised to me ;)
[16:29] <fsphil> come to think of it, have we ever seen daveake and davem in the same room together?
[16:29] <daveake> lol
[16:30] <daveake> With comments like that, your next application might take me, er, David, even longer to process ...
[16:32] <eroomde> as i said once before, we have never seen kim jong il and dave miller in the same room
[16:32] <fsphil> so Christmas 2012 then
[16:32] <daveake> You wish
[16:32] <daveake> lol
[16:32] <eroomde> 'aaagh naaah, anudda barroon fright apprication? have yer any idea how f*cking busy I am?'
[16:33] <daveake> lol
[16:33] <Upu> heh
[16:33] <Upu> I do hope he doesn't idle here
[16:33] <Upu> personally I think its niftylettuce
[16:33] <eroomde> he doesn't strike me as someone who'se heard of irc
[16:33] <daveake> My disguise works then
[16:33] <Upu> no
[16:33] <Upu> is jenny__ = Jessica_Lily ?
[16:34] <Upu> or different people ?
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[16:34] <jenny__> different people, im just jenny not jess lol
[16:36] <NigeyS> hrm
[16:37] Action: SpeedEvil notes a disproportionate number of people with names beginning with j.
[16:37] <costyn> SpeedEvil: where is the paper to back up your claim? :)
[16:37] <SpeedEvil> Right here!
[16:37] <SpeedEvil> It's triple-ply absorbent too!
[16:37] <NigeyS> haha
[16:41] <costyn> SpeedEvil: there are more B's than J's
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[16:42] Nick change: gonzo__ -> gonzo_
[16:43] <Upu> sorry jenny__ getting confused
[16:43] <Upu> doesn't take much these days
[16:44] <NigeyS> old age that :p
[16:44] <Upu> indeed
[16:50] <jenny__> i gtg, time to get home! will try and fix this tomorrow
[16:50] <Upu> bye
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[17:08] <Jessica_Lily> hey
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[17:23] <andrew_apex> I'm looking to get a whip for tracking from my car - I'm looking at getting a 4" magmount (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-Mag-Mount-CB-Radio-Antennas-/250715924942?pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_SpecialistRadioEquipment_SM&hash=item3a5fd569ce) - where do I get a 70cm 1/4 whip with a 3/8 conector?
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[17:41] <nosebleedKT> The doorbell rings and my mom open the door. Its the old woman next door. She said: there is a little child in my room from yesterday night and it talks and looks at me all the time. !
[17:41] <nosebleedKT> god damn!
[17:41] <daveake> andrew_apex I just used one of these - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2m-70cm-144-430MHz-Micro-Mount-Ham-Radio-Mobile-Antenna-/390334257030?_trksid=p4340.m185&_trkparms=algo%3DDLSL%252BSIC.NPJS%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BUA%26otn%3D10%26pmod%3D370472745250%252B370472745250%26po%3D%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D4564700089792422526#ht_500wt_1081
[17:42] <daveake> Has a tiny magnetic mount which works fine (hasn't fallen off yet)
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[17:42] <andrew_apex> thanks daveake
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[17:42] <andrew_apex> i think I'll go with a 4" mount so I can use bigger aerials for oither stuff if needed
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[17:52] <nosebleedKT> Have anyone used the Canon A490 ?
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[18:02] <perseus> /wc/wc
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[18:10] Nick change: GW8RAK_ -> GW8RAK
[18:23] Nick change: plate -> pur_
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[18:52] <fsphil> daveake, you can get that one cheaper on cpc: http://cpc.farnell.com/watson/wsm-270/wsm-270-mini-mag-antenna/dp/IT44456
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[18:56] <Laurenceb_> anyone here used fatFS?
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[19:02] <daveake> fsphil - Shame I didn't notice ... I do have a CPC account
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[19:05] <fsphil> they're great little antennas
[19:06] <daveake> Has worked well for me on all 3 chases
[19:09] Action: daveake ponders http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=f06ee5e4e2b2f12d280b1111fdb7ca758210cb73 ....
[19:13] <fsphil> that's a mighty flight
[19:14] <fsphil> what are the chances of recovery?
[19:14] <daveake> With my record? :p
[19:15] <daveake> OK, 2 out of 3 ain't bad :)
[19:15] <fsphil> lol
[19:15] <daveake> Quite a high chance of a sea landing, but it would only be the used Buzz electronics and no cameras
[19:15] <fsphil> er, http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=50a16cf787ab51a61a3f3ea2aedec54efce61f28
[19:16] <daveake> No trees tjhere :D
[19:16] <fsphil> lol
[19:16] <fsphil> not for the last few thousand years anyway
[19:16] Action: daveake hums "Always look on the bright side of life, de dum, de dum de dum de dum"
[19:16] <fsphil> I bet it sinks and gets caught on a corel though
[19:17] <fsphil> 468km distance
[19:17] <fsphil> yikes
[19:19] <daveake> Try Saturday ... http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=73ebb93cecfc847db8bda8ac6551a8976dd6a96b
[19:19] <daveake> Flirt with danger :)
[19:19] <fsphil> saturday does look better
[19:20] <daveake> England isn't really very wide up there!
[19:20] <SpeedEvil> Horribly windy.
[19:20] <daveake> Yep
[19:20] <daveake> I can see there being no flights this w/e instead of 3 or whatever it was
[19:21] <fsphil> must check the weather forecast
[19:21] <fsphil> lol, 34km/h winds at the launch site on saturday
[19:22] <daveake> eek
[19:22] <daveake> Where's the best place for getting those?
[19:24] <daveake> BBC weather says 16mph on Saturday 11mph on Sunday for my area
[19:24] <fsphil> I'm just looking at bbc weather too
[19:24] <fsphil> no idea how accurate that is
[19:24] <daveake> ok
[19:24] <fsphil> sunday is 23km/h
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[19:26] <daveake> I should be back home tomorrow evening, and I'm planning on putting the payloaf together on Friday. Also have to pick up the cylinder Friday and get my chase car back from the garage
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[19:33] <chembrow> evening all
[19:35] <fsphil> payloaf?
[19:36] <fsphil> hiya chembrow
[19:36] <chembrow> hi fsphil
[19:37] <chembrow> any launches this weekend? Got a diamond x-50 now, just need to stick it up, and want to try it out
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[19:38] Action: fsphil has homework to do .. suppose I better go do it.. boooo
[19:57] <daveake> chembrow fsphil might be, and I might be
[19:57] <chembrow> cool, thanks daveake
[19:58] <daveake> fsphil's would be from NI to Yorkshire, or beyond (North Sea a definite possibility)
[19:59] <daveake> Mine would be from Berks to Belgium :D
[19:59] <daveake> (or the North Sea lol )
[19:59] <chembrow> :)
[19:59] <chembrow> good test for the antenna then
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[20:24] <SpeedEvil> Frozen planet is quite awesome.
[20:24] <eroomde> rockets tonight
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[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[21:12] <jonsowman> fsphil-laptop: that bat on your flickr is very cute
[21:14] <fsphil-laptop> isn't it!
[21:14] <fsphil-laptop> it was a very tiny thing
[21:15] <SpeedEvil> bat?
[21:15] <NigeyS> if my cat saw that ..... mmm......lunch
[21:15] <jonsowman> http://www.flickr.com/photos/fsphil/6088306653/in/photostream
[21:15] <jonsowman> bat :)
[21:16] <SpeedEvil> That is a small bat.
[21:16] <SpeedEvil> Lots of those to a zinger-burger.
[21:16] <NigeyS> lol
[21:16] <fsphil-laptop> haha
[21:16] <fsphil-laptop> it was caught not far from here
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[21:18] <fsphil-laptop> they set it on someone's head to demonstrate that they don't get caught in hair -- which it didn't, but it flew straight into the door of the building we where beside
[21:18] <fsphil-laptop> took them half an hour to get it out
[21:18] <jonsowman> haha
[21:19] <NigeyS> duh
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[21:23] <NigeyS> hrm
[21:23] Action: NigeyS calls SAR for Griffonbot
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[21:24] Action: griffonbot is GriffonBot [http://github.com/ssb/griffonbot]
[21:24] Action: griffonbot is following: #ukhas #cusf #atlasballoon #projecthorus
[21:24] Action: griffonbot is tracking emails sent to ukhas@googlegroups.com
[21:24] <NigeyS> omg he's alive!
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[21:25] <fsphil-laptop> he was being held hostage
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[21:25] <NigeyS> what was the ransome? :o
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[21:28] <Zuph> ll
[21:28] <NigeyS> hey bradster!
[21:28] <Zuph> Stupid new laptop trackpad
[21:28] <fsphil-laptop> you've more solar panels than me jonsowman. no fair :p
[21:28] <Zuph> Clicking in windows I don't want to click on and shite
[21:28] <NigeyS> lol
[21:29] <jonsowman> fsphil-laptop: hehe, what do you have?
[21:29] <jonsowman> i should say that they are technically my parents'
[21:29] <fsphil-laptop> I've got 8x 55 watt panels
[21:29] <SpeedEvil> I've got more solar than either!
[21:29] <SpeedEvil> I've got 2kW of solar cells.
[21:29] <NigeyS> ive got.......none!
[21:29] <SpeedEvil> Admittedly, they are still in the box, and I have to wire them up.
[21:29] <jonsowman> this one is 1.9kW peak
[21:29] <fsphil-laptop> safest place for them SpeedEvil :)
[21:29] <SpeedEvil> True.
[21:29] <fsphil-laptop> that's nice
[21:30] <fsphil-laptop> I don't have a south facing roof, so I didn't want to be spending too much money on it
[21:30] <jonsowman> ours is directly south facing luckily
[21:30] Action: SpeedEvil sent a response to the consultation about solar panel FiTs.
[21:30] <fsphil-laptop> I've a south facing shed roof, which get the sun up until about 4pm
[21:30] <SpeedEvil> 20p/kWp is _way_ too high to hit the target of 4.5% return/year.
[21:31] <fsphil-laptop> I calculated that these would take 20 years to pay for themselves
[21:31] <SpeedEvil> The right way would be to simply allow net metering.
[21:31] <jonsowman> ours were installed before that was changed
[21:31] <jonsowman> so we get 42p/kWh or something
[21:31] <fsphil-laptop> although that was before the electric prices jumped up big time
[21:31] <SpeedEvil> That way people could buy solar panels in B+Q.
[21:31] <fsphil-laptop> nice
[21:31] <jonsowman> reduces the payback period for the panels by a significant amount
[21:31] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: you know you can boost the size of the panel up to a year after install, and get original FIT rate?
[21:31] <fsphil-laptop> I think I'm generating about £1.50 a week
[21:32] <SpeedEvil> If you go to 9.9kW (if you have the roof) you get 36p IIRC
[21:32] <fsphil-laptop> no more room for panels sadly
[21:32] <SpeedEvil> err - jonsowman
[21:32] <fsphil-laptop> but when I get another house a north/south roof is a must :)
[21:32] <SpeedEvil> And of course the new panel install will br eatehr cheaper.
[21:32] <SpeedEvil> But it's a big investment.
[21:33] <jonsowman> yeah it's not cheap at all
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[21:33] <SpeedEvil> Payback in that case would be stupidly fast though.
[21:33] <fsphil-laptop> not helped by having brat kids as neighbours, who throw stones at them
[21:34] <niftylettuce> Upu: :)
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[21:35] <gonzo_> apart from the disproportional rate paid by for meeting some target, solar still doesn;t make sense
[21:35] <gonzo_> though if off grid, it can pay
[21:36] <gonzo_> have a friend in shopshire, runs the whole farm off solar/wind
[21:36] <fsphil-laptop> off-grid would be great
[21:37] <fsphil-laptop> we just don't have the surface area for it
[21:39] <SpeedEvil> gonzo_: It depends.
[21:39] <SpeedEvil> gonzo_: Even net-metered, it can make sense.
[21:39] <SpeedEvil> gonzo_: The current price of panels is around a pound a watt.
[21:39] <SpeedEvil> The inverters take it to around a pound 20 or so.
[21:40] <jonsowman> yeah the inverter was quite a lot iirc
[21:40] <SpeedEvil> If I could net meter with my existing bills, that would be ~10 year payback.
[21:40] <fsphil-laptop> here too
[21:40] <SpeedEvil> If I could net meter with DIY panels, it's more like 3, maybe 2.
[21:40] <SpeedEvil> And a _lot_ more work.
[21:40] <fsphil-laptop> we never generate enough to export, it just makes our meter spin slower
[21:41] <SpeedEvil> If I could legally net-meter with a DIY setup, I'd be putting in perhaps 9kW
[21:41] <fsphil-laptop> though on a good day it gets very close to zero
[21:41] <fsphil-laptop> I've seen it dip into negative only a few times
[21:42] <fsphil-laptop> the export rates with NIE is about half the price they charge us for
[21:42] <SpeedEvil> yeah - that's - not quite - so ridiculous as the UK case.
[21:42] <fsphil-laptop> we changed to another provider recently but they don't publish it -- been meaning to email them about it
[21:42] <SpeedEvil> 3p is just taking the piss.
[21:43] <gonzo_> the prob is, the power generated doesn't offset the environmantal cost of making them
[21:43] <gonzo_> the technology isn't quite viable yet
[21:43] <SpeedEvil> gonzo_: That's quite debatable.
[21:43] <SpeedEvil> I'd go so far as to say probably wrong.
[21:44] <fsphil-laptop> the lifespan of a panel is pretty long
[21:44] <SpeedEvil> Unless you're meaning more than carbon emissions.
[21:44] <jonsowman> i think ours are guaranteed at 80% capacity for 25 years
[21:44] <jonsowman> or something
[21:44] <gonzo_> I'm probably out f date, but last time I looked, the efficiency dropped off badly after 10 yrs
[21:44] <fsphil-laptop> something similar to these ones
[21:45] <SpeedEvil> It doesn't.
[21:45] <SpeedEvil> Not with decent panels at least.
[21:45] <SpeedEvil> Made from stuff that won't yellow.
[21:45] <jonsowman> 95% for 10 years and 80% for 25 years
[21:45] <gonzo_> and the estimated figures for generation were a bit optimistic for real uk wx
[21:45] <SpeedEvil> They are very close for people that have actually installed panels.
[21:46] <SpeedEvil> http://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/pvgis/apps4/pvest.php
[21:46] <fsphil-laptop> depends who's giving the figures I suppose
[21:46] <gonzo_> suspect the approved fitters have to use approved figures
[21:46] <fsphil-laptop> the amount I generate is lower than expected but I think it's mainly because of the shadow on the panels after 4pm
[21:46] <SpeedEvil> Though click 'climate SAF' database once you pick a location.
[21:47] <gonzo_> I last looked well before grid tie was about
[21:48] <gonzo_> used to ue them for off grid repeater sies
[21:48] <SpeedEvil> Batteries are still the horrible bit.
[21:48] <SpeedEvil> You can get batteries that will last 20 years.
[21:48] <SpeedEvil> But they won't sell them to you, and are murderously expensive.
[21:49] <SpeedEvil> Or are Ni-Fe, and not really made in large quantities anymore for no good reason.
[21:49] <SpeedEvil> Someone over on ##electronics managed to score 20kWh of NiFe batteries for ~$3k
[21:50] <gonzo_> we used lead acid, as were available
[21:50] <SpeedEvil> At that sort of price, it'd make sense simply charging off night-rate, and running during the day.
[21:52] <fsphil-laptop> I looked at batteries too, but it's a dead end sadly
[21:52] <SpeedEvil> At the moment, the above scheme is about cost neutral.
[21:52] <fsphil-laptop> grid-tie makes the grid a more efficient battery than lead acid :)
[21:52] <SpeedEvil> The batteries wear out at the same rate the savings occur.
[21:53] <gonzo_> that used to be the prob with the pv panels
[21:53] <SpeedEvil> Unless you can source cheap NiFe
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[22:11] <griffonbot> Received email: Russ Garrett "Re: [UKHAS] Formalisation of UKHAS"
[22:13] pedro_on_irc (~pedro_on_@cpc1-stap8-0-0-cust855.12-2.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
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[22:21] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] Formalisation of UKHAS"
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[22:42] <Laurenceb_> where can you get jet stream maps now?
[22:42] <Laurenceb_> wunderground dont seem to have them?
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[22:43] <NigeyS> http://virga.sfsu.edu/crws/jetstream.html
[22:43] <NigeyS> ?
[22:43] <NigeyS> or
[22:43] <NigeyS> http://www.wunderground.com/global/Region/EU/2xJetStream.html
[22:44] <Laurenceb_> oh it is on wunderground
[22:44] <NigeyS> its well hidden!
[22:44] <Laurenceb_> you used to be able to view timewise
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[22:45] <NigeyS> oh
[22:45] <NigeyS> jetstream over the south of the u.k is 140mph right now :|
[22:47] <daveake> I think I'm going to have trouble driving fast enough to keep up :D
[22:47] <NigeyS> just buy a ferrari :p
[22:47] <daveake> I do have a Lotus ....
[22:47] <daveake> .... however nowhere metal to fit the magmount to :D
[22:47] <NigeyS> :o
[22:48] <NigeyS> eyup here comes the rain again, its hammering down
[22:49] <jonsowman> that's a rather nice problem to have daveake
[22:49] <daveake> :)
[22:50] <daveake> Doesn't (normally) have a roof either :)
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[22:51] <daveake> The other car is in the garage having a new clutch fitted. 8 hours labour apparently so that's going to be an unpleasant bill. Still, it did last for 209,000 miles.
[22:51] <Laurenceb_> oh there is a timeline map thingy
[22:51] <Laurenceb_> thanks
[22:51] <NigeyS> :)
[22:51] <jonsowman> daveake: not bad, what car?
[22:51] <daveake> Pug 406 V6 coupe
[22:51] <jonsowman> heh, i thought you might say pug 406
[22:52] <jonsowman> i've got one, on 208,000 at the moment
[22:52] <daveake> :)
[22:52] <jonsowman> (not the coupe)
[22:52] <jonsowman> 2.1TD, on the original clutch too
[22:52] <daveake> Not bad. Had mine since 80k so I'll blame the previous owner for the clutch eventually giving up :)
[22:53] <jonsowman> which engine is yours?
[22:53] <daveake> I think I said :D
[22:53] <jonsowman> oh you did
[22:53] <daveake> V6 3 litre petrol
[22:53] <jonsowman> sorry
[22:53] <daveake> 29mpg but is quite quick
[22:53] <jonsowman> yeah the V6s are meant to be quite spritely
[22:54] <jonsowman> my 2.1 is exactly the opposite, very lazy engine
[22:54] <jonsowman> but 50mpg
[22:54] <daveake> At, erm, "motorway speeds" it's probably quicker than the Elise.
[22:54] <Upu> 208k ?
[22:54] <Upu> in a peugeot ?
[22:54] <Upu> wow
[22:54] <jonsowman> peugeot got it very right with the 406
[22:55] <daveake> And the coupe was put together by Italians. Not sure if that's good or bad lol
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[22:55] <Upu> never had anything thats gone that high but all the peugeot's we've had tend to fall apart around 15k
[22:55] <Upu> so I'm impressed
[22:55] <jonsowman> designed by Pininfarina wasn't it
[22:55] <daveake> yep
[22:55] <Upu> coupe was
[22:55] <jonsowman> Upu: there are many reports of 406s doing 250k+
[22:55] <jonsowman> one guy i've spoken to has done 500k
[22:56] <jonsowman> i like the coupe, quite a good looking car, even by modern standards, imo
[22:56] <Upu> how many years old is the 250k one ?
[22:56] <jonsowman> Upu: http://www.406oc.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4630
[22:57] <daveake> Yeah, I bought mine because of the styling, and the fact that big engined older cars are cheap. Paid just over 4k at 80k miles and 7 years old
[22:57] <jonsowman> they seem to go on forever
[22:57] <daveake> Engine still sweet at 209k
[22:57] <Upu> you got that right
[22:57] Action: fsphil-laptop has a clio :p
[22:57] <jonsowman> yep mine's still spot on
[22:57] <Upu> you can pick up a V12 BMW for nothing, however I suspect they will drink fuel
[22:58] <Upu> mines not bad, 3.0 V6 TDI does 55mpg on the motorway
[22:58] <jonsowman> 55mpg from a V6 is very good
[22:58] <jonsowman> what car is it?
[22:58] <Upu> it used to get 65mpg before I had it remapped back to standard
[22:58] <daveake> People in the market for an older car don't want to pay for lots of petrol nor can they probably afford the insurance on something quick
[22:58] <Upu> Audi A4 Quattro 3.0
[22:58] <jonsowman> i'm a student -- i certainly can't
[22:59] <Upu> previous owner had remapped it
[22:59] <daveake> I'm 51; mine is cheap :D
[22:59] <Upu> didn't tell me
[22:59] <Upu> had 300 bhp...
[22:59] <daveake> lol
[22:59] <jonsowman> nice
[22:59] <Upu> however it also vibrated like a biatch as it has active engine mounts which the remap hadn't taken into account
[22:59] <Upu> so anyway long story short 9 months at Audi technical center before they worked it out now down to a more reasonable 240bhp
[22:59] <daveake> When my Elise was being serviced once I tried out a later model that had been fitted with a Honda engine. 210bhp in 850kg. It was, erm, quick ...
[23:00] <jonsowman> heh i can imagine
[23:00] <Upu> Elises are amazing
[23:00] <daveake> Love mine
[23:01] <Upu> I only borrowed one never owned one sadly
[23:02] <daveake> They're not a bad financial proposition - the earlier ones like mine have stopped depreciating, and servicing at a good independent isn't expensive. Also low on tax and petrol
[23:03] <Lunar_Lander> oh damn I missed it!
[23:03] <Lunar_Lander> it's december 1 since 3 minutes
[23:03] <fsphil-laptop> not here it isn't ;)
[23:03] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[23:03] <fsphil-laptop> we live in the past
[23:03] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[23:04] <fsphil-laptop> what's it like in the future? does everyone have flying cars yet?
[23:04] <daveake> Yeah, but Helium is even more expensive
[23:04] <fsphil-laptop> Doesn't Mr.Fusion produce that as a waste product?
[23:05] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[23:05] <daveake> He's an elusive chap
[23:06] <fsphil-laptop> also, Rygel from Farscape
[23:07] <fsphil-laptop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sgoJjMW8UM
[23:09] <daveake> LOL
[23:11] <Laurenceb_> lol farscape
[23:11] <Laurenceb_> every episode was worse than the previous one
[23:12] <Laurenceb_> started off really good and ended *cringe*
[23:13] <fsphil-laptop> I thought it got good, then bad, then sorta good again
[23:13] <fsphil-laptop> it had some great moments though
[23:16] <Lunar_Lander> may I suggest another TV series?
[23:16] <fsphil-laptop> depends
[23:20] <Lunar_Lander> Gavin&Stacey
[23:20] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[23:24] <fsphil-laptop> er, no you may not
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[23:27] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[23:33] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil-laptop: but I know a good british thing
[23:33] <Lunar_Lander> Coldplay
[23:33] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[23:33] <fsphil-laptop> that's stretching it
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[23:34] <daveake> :)
[23:34] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[23:34] <fsphil-laptop> fish and chips
[23:34] <fsphil-laptop> that's a good british thing
[23:35] <fsphil-laptop> we call them fish suppers for some reason
[23:35] <daveake> I travelled to the Suffolk coast and back for Fish & Chips :p
[23:36] <fsphil-laptop> hehe, we'd sometimes go up to the north coast for some
[23:36] <fsphil-laptop> nice place there called The Dolphin
[23:36] <fsphil-laptop> then take it down to the beech for some fish and chips and sand
[23:37] <fsphil-laptop> well, depends how windy it is
[23:37] <daveake> Crunchier than salt?
[23:37] <fsphil-laptop> tis
[23:37] <fsphil-laptop> and fighting away the gulls and starlings
[23:37] <fsphil-laptop> happy times
[23:37] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[23:38] <daveake> The only part of the north coast in NI I've been to is the giant's causeway and that dodgy bridge nearby :)
[23:38] <fsphil-laptop> ooh the rope bridge
[23:38] <daveake> Yep
[23:38] <fsphil-laptop> been there a few times
[23:38] <daveake> That was fun
[23:38] <fsphil-laptop> it's great
[23:39] <fsphil-laptop> nice walk up to it
[23:40] <daveake> http://1.2.3.11/bmi/farm5.static.flickr.com/4019/4492604824_06e42ce93d.jpg
[23:40] <daveake> Yep
[23:40] <daveake> Enjoyed that a lot more than the causeway
[23:40] <fsphil-laptop> 1.2.3.11?
[23:41] <daveake> hmmm
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[23:41] <fsphil-laptop> I've got photos when i was there but no idea where they are
[23:41] <daveake> Ditto
[23:42] <daveake> Well, they're at home on the server
[23:43] <fsphil-laptop> my cousin started shaking it, scared the crap out of his brother. he properly turned white as a ghost
[23:44] <daveake> The Capilano suspension bridge in Vancouver is great too
[23:44] <SpeedEvil> http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4019/4492604824_06e42ce93d.jpg
[23:44] <daveake> http://www.capbridge.com/
[23:44] <daveake> That's it
[23:45] <fsphil-laptop> the steps down to it, behind the view of that picture, is pretty steep
[23:45] <fsphil-laptop> almost as scary as the bridge
[23:45] <daveake> Yeah, those were probably worse I thought
[23:45] <fsphil-laptop> also the island has no fence, and some huge drops
[23:45] <daveake> The bridge didn't bother me except when I tried to video my walk across :)
[23:45] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[23:46] <daveake> Looking at the video screen when walking is a recipe for dropping the recorder :)
[23:46] <fsphil-laptop> the way the bridge moved made my legs a bit wobbly
[23:46] <fsphil-laptop> very odd sensation
[23:46] <fsphil-laptop> it felt weird being back on solid ground
[23:47] <daveake> Bit like being on land after being on a boat
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[23:47] <fsphil-laptop> yea it's probably pretty similar
[23:47] <fsphil-laptop> or a trampoline
[23:48] <daveake> Interesting curve http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=102edd701302de5621d089a8617713cc2514b58d
[23:49] <daveake> £58 return on Eurochunnel
[23:49] <daveake> Payload isn't worth much more than £58 :D
[23:49] <daveake> Would be fun though
[23:50] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[23:50] <fsphil-laptop> "Inoffensif expérience scientifique."
[23:50] <daveake> I didn't set the time btw, but it's similar later in the day
[23:51] <daveake> Thanks, I'll need that :)
[23:51] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[23:51] <daveake> What's French for "Don't panic; this isn't part of an invasion force"?
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[23:52] <daveake> I'm thinking of using a large-than-needed parachute, to help me catch up when it starts dropping out of the sky
[23:52] <fsphil-laptop> Ne pas bomb?
[23:52] <daveake> :)
[23:52] <fsphil-laptop> parachute would definitely help you there, keep it away from the wet stuff
[23:52] <daveake> Yep
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[23:53] <daveake> Sunday is further inland
[23:53] <daveake> Also I think less rain and lower ground wind speeds
[23:54] <daveake> Hopefully one or two of our Dutch contingent will be online and tracking
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[23:57] <fsphil-laptop> saturday seems the safest at the moment here, although that's also when the ground wind speed is at its highest
[23:57] <fsphil-laptop> I need a big tent
[23:57] <daveake> Anything for a windbreak, or any option to fill indoors?
[23:58] <fsphil-laptop> all open space apart from the cafe
[23:58] <fsphil-laptop> which is a semi-circular building, so maybe
[23:58] <fsphil-laptop> you can see it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYuN1mOaM0w
[23:59] Action: SpeedEvil wonders.
[23:59] <SpeedEvil> Trying to design something that'll release a balloon cleanly is hard.
[23:59] <fsphil-laptop> it would be nice if we could fill it under a cover
[23:59] <fsphil-laptop> but measuring lift would be impossible
[00:00] --- Thu Dec 1 2011