highaltitude.log.20111129

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[08:01] <NigelMoby> Toooo early
[08:02] <Darkside> lol
[08:02] <jcoxon> morning
[08:02] <jcoxon> i've got a question
[08:02] <NigelMoby> morning James, mark
[08:03] <jcoxon> was trying to get APRS to decode
[08:03] <jcoxon> and the received frequency is wider then 1200 and 2200
[08:05] <NigelMoby> hrm odd
[08:05] <jcoxon> could it be my radio being weird?
[08:05] <jcoxon> i've changed soundcards
[08:06] <Darkside> that is weird
[08:06] <Darkside> so you're trying to decode off the aprs network?
[08:06] <jcoxon> yeah
[08:06] <Darkside> interesting
[08:06] <jcoxon> and looking at the waterfall
[08:06] <Darkside> dunno what the deal is there
[08:07] <Darkside> what are you decoding with?
[08:07] <jcoxon> on both fldigi and soundmodemconfig
[08:07] <Darkside> oh soundmodem
[08:07] <jcoxon> on soundmodem it can decode partial
[08:07] <jcoxon> but they never pass their crc
[08:08] <Darkside> weird
[08:09] <jcoxon> am i right in thinking packet doesn't do great in low signal situations?
[08:09] <Darkside> probably
[08:09] <Darkside> it is FM
[08:09] <jcoxon> yeah
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[08:16] <NigelMoby> hrm no signal from Picochu, this'll make recovery fun...
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[08:24] <Darkside> NigelMoby: yeha thats not going to help
[08:25] <NigelMoby> :(
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[08:38] <natrium42> nooo, jcoxon left :(
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[09:26] <gonzo_> mornin works
[09:26] <gonzo_> d
[09:27] <gonzo_> world! (fingers still too tired to type)
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[10:02] <SamSilver> 160 000 cubic foot ZP launching > http://us.mg4.mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch?.rand=9ahi8bro5isr3
[10:03] <SamSilver> better link > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GPSL/message/10940
[10:06] <eroomde> so that's about 1.4 times the diameter of a 3m balloon at burst
[10:06] <eroomde> just to put into perspective
[10:07] <SamSilver> I have flown a 180 000 hot air balloon and that is beeg
[10:08] <SamSilver> but an inverted terdrop shape "natural" shaped balloon
[10:08] <SamSilver> eroomde: you mean a 3000g balloon
[10:18] <eroomde> yes
[10:18] <eroomde> sorry
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[11:53] <daveake> Blimey. It's only Tuesday but I seem to have a notam through already ...
[12:00] <hibby> ideal
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[12:53] Action: costyn waves
[12:54] Action: hibby varies costyn's wavelength
[12:54] Action: hibby performs a frequency analysis on costyn's wave
[12:54] Action: hibby leaves enginerd mode.
[12:55] <costyn> hahaha
[12:55] Action: daveake decides not to wave
[12:55] <hibby> lol
[12:56] <daveake> To chase or not to chase, that is the question
[12:56] <costyn> my first programming project at uni was implementing a fast fourier transform in java; somehow that project stuck in my brain; I've forgotten most of the others
[12:57] <hibby> chase!
[12:57] Action: daveake ponders http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=5adf272324abf167fb3f46106532ca3f6831c71e
[12:57] <costyn> so yea anybody else use google DNS? cause it seems broken atm
[12:57] <daveake> Might need to leave before it launches :D
[12:57] Action: hibby is currently wrapped up in matlab
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[12:59] <costyn> internet is a lot less fun without DNS
[12:59] <hibby> opendns instead?
[12:59] <daveake> Error 404: Fun not found
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[13:00] <hibby> 208.67.222.222
[13:00] <costyn> hibby: yea collegue just provided me with those; i haz teh interwebs working again
[13:00] <costyn> hibby: but thx
[13:00] <hibby> lol
[13:10] Action: hibby sits down in office
[13:10] Action: hibby notices some equipment missing
[13:11] <hibby> ... they've taken my TNCs
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[13:24] <daveake> Notam ... check. Order cylinder ... check. Weather ... hmmmm. Payload ... ah yes, must build one :)
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[13:26] <hibby> lol
[13:26] <hibby> got it designed, I imagine?
[13:28] <daveake> "Designed"? :p
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[13:29] <daveake> It's the innards of Buzz but in a different container for added warmth
[13:29] <daveake> Just need to make the antenna, and shove the bits inside. Pretty much.
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[13:31] <hibby> easy stuff
[13:31] <hibby> "easy" :p
[13:32] <daveake> Yep :)
[13:32] <fsphil> ooh, looks like we're sort of getting an HF launch in the UK :)
[13:35] <costyn> fsphil: 6 MHz is unusual right? any idea why? what's the legality of sending on this freq.?
[13:35] <fsphil> it's license exempt
[13:36] <fsphil> and can be used in the air in the UK
[13:36] <fsphil> although I've no idea what 42 dBA/m at 10 m means
[13:36] <hibby> does we have to build receivers for this frequency?!
[13:36] <hibby> hurrah!
[13:36] <fsphil> 42 dBuA/m at 10 m even
[13:37] <costyn> that is a strange unit; micro-amps/meter?
[13:37] <fsphil> afaik the modules need to be certified -- but maybe that only applies to commercial ones?
[13:37] <russss> guys
[13:37] <russss> http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/sites/default/files/resources/Further_detail_on_Open_Data_measures_in_the_Autumn_Statement_2011.pdf
[13:37] <russss> "The Met Office will, from today and for
[13:37] <russss> the first time, release under the Open
[13:37] <russss> Government Licence (OGL) as machinereadable and machine-processable for
[13:37] <russss> unrestricted use, the following Public
[13:37] <russss> Weather Service weather forecast and
[13:37] <russss> real-time observation datasets, which
[13:37] <russss> together represent the largest volume of
[13:37] <russss> high quality weather data and information
[13:38] <russss> made available by a national
[13:38] <russss> meteorological organisation anywhere in
[13:38] <russss> the world"
[13:38] <jonsowman> http://pastie.org
[13:38] <russss> sorry, PDFs suck
[13:38] <russss> page 10
[13:39] <Randomskk> :o
[13:39] <fsphil> sweet!
[13:39] <fsphil> met office api
[13:39] <Randomskk> forecast wind speed at 3 hourly intervals for 5 days for 5000 UK locations, updated hourly
[13:39] <Randomskk> awesome
[13:39] <Randomskk> that's in some ways a lot nicer than NOAA
[13:40] <Randomskk> ooooooh but also the last 24 hours of observed data for 150 sites
[13:40] <Randomskk> ah but
[13:40] <Randomskk> altitude
[13:40] <Randomskk> I imagine it's just going to be ground level
[13:41] <Randomskk> russss: the postcode database!
[13:41] <russss> postcode DB is already open
[13:41] <russss> http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/oswebsite/products/code-point-open/
[13:41] <russss> since last year sometime
[13:41] <Randomskk> oh, okay
[13:47] <eroomde> yo
[13:47] <eroomde> if this has altitude too
[13:48] <eroomde> then we're really rocking
[13:54] <Randomskk> yea but I bet it won't
[13:54] <Randomskk> it's sites around the UK
[13:54] <Randomskk> and it's a whole host of standard data - temperature, pressure, humidity, light level, wind speed/direction
[13:54] <Randomskk> though it is predictions so...
[13:55] <Randomskk> if it does have altitude data it would be pretty amazing
[13:56] <staylo> Randomskk: Does sound interesting :) Where are you quoting from?
[13:56] <Randomskk> the PDF that russss linked above
[13:57] <russss> http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/sites/default/files/resources/Further_detail_on_Open_Data_measures_in_the_Autumn_Statement_2011.pdf
[13:57] <eroomde> postcode data would be nice to
[13:57] <eroomde> as a 'launch from' field
[13:58] <russss> <russss> postcode DB is already open
[13:58] <russss> <russss> http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/oswebsite/products/code-point-open/
[13:58] <eroomde> yes that's what I was referencing
[13:59] <russss> k
[14:00] <russss> the dataset is relatively straightforward, but you have to do the OSGB36->WGS84 coordinate space transformation
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[14:53] <gonzo_> phil, I did some rough calculations on the 42 dB limit on the HF allocations. at 10
[14:54] <gonzo_> I recon it equates to 10dBm
[14:54] <gonzo_> into an isotropic ant
[14:55] <gonzo_> which sounds about right, ain line with many of the other low power allocations
[14:55] <gonzo_> problem is, HF is noisy and not sure 10mw would cut it
[14:56] <fsphil> yea I found another source that said 10mw too
[14:56] <fsphil> it's not on the amateur band though, wouldn't that be quieter?
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[14:57] <fsphil> although it's an LPD part, it could be noisier
[15:05] <gonzo_> 6meg is reasonably quiet
[15:05] <gonzo_> but hf is generally noise
[15:05] <gonzo_> could always try though
[15:06] <gonzo_> run a 2ndry payload on a launch
[15:06] <gonzo_> the us guys may have some figures for their dx launches which could be scaled.
[15:07] <gonzo_> though many of them have huge arrays, so have to factor that in too.
[15:09] <fsphil> the launch next week is using the 9mhz one as as secondary
[15:09] <fsphil> you on the ukhas mailing list?
[15:09] <fsphil> forgot the bot doesn't print those emails atm
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[15:13] <SamSilver> carbon film or metal film for hab type cold?
[15:14] <daveake> fsphil I got my notam :)
[15:15] <SamSilver> you are soooo mean Mr A
[15:15] <fsphil> how long did it take?
[15:16] <gonzo_> Yep i am phil, tghough I get the digest, so usually only hear launch announcements till the day after
[15:16] <daveake> 25 days
[15:16] <daveake> Note: "days", not "weeks" :p
[15:17] <daveake> SamSilver Phil does have hos now :)
[15:17] <gonzo_> what's next week's launch?
[15:17] <daveake> Prediction for Sunday looks like a bit of a trek to chase .. http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=275b610a9bc0daa96b712b5a0aa75f5eb585c998
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[15:18] <daveake> I want the flight to take a while so I can catch up with it, but not for it to travel too far.
[15:20] <fsphil> that would be ideal
[15:21] <fsphil> what i need is basically no wind :)
[15:21] <daveake> :)
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[15:21] <gonzo_> we have an eng here, wind surfer, who books his days off when the met forcasts wind
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[15:22] <gonzo_> then cancells them if it turns out to be calm on the day
[15:22] <gonzo_> could we do the same?!
[15:22] <gonzo_> if he's in and it's blowing a hoolie outside, he sits there lookimng longingly at the window
[15:23] <fsphil> we'd need the calm and notam to overlap :)
[15:23] <fsphil> ideally we'd need some system where we could get a 1-day notam less than a week in advance
[15:24] <fsphil> (by notam I mean both the notam and permission)
[15:24] <fsphil> it should save everyone time in the long run
[15:24] <fsphil> especially davem
[15:25] <daveake> Yeah. As it is, I can't predict what I'll be doing in 28 days, let alone what the weather will be like!
[15:26] <daveake> I don't see mine on notaminfo.com ... usually it's there before I get the mail from DM!
[15:26] <daveake> I do see fsphil's though :)
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[15:28] <daveake> Looks like the site hasn't updated since Sunday
[15:30] <gonzo_> if they can get a perm notam in cambs, then worth trying elsewhere
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[15:37] <SamSilver> help - carbon film resistors or metal film resistors for hab typr cold?
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[15:43] <gonzo_> anyone any ideas for interesting measurements to send in the telem frame
[15:44] <gonzo_> got Vbatt, Tinternal, Texternal
[15:44] <gonzo_> have a spare analogue channel
[15:46] <SamSilver> RH%
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[15:49] <SamSilver> gonzo_: rel humid % air p
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[15:50] <gonzo_> Yep, that would be interesting. Will have to see if I can find some sensors
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[15:52] <gonzo_> see if there are any cheap met sondes on ebay with useable bits
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[15:55] <SamSilver> gonzo_: some calculators have real small solar cells, you could measure the output
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[16:05] <fsphil> I used a calculator solar cell wired to an amiga joystick port to do a simple optical data thing
[16:06] <fsphil> wired it directly, surprised I didn't break anything :)
[16:06] <hibby> nice
[16:07] <fsphil> wired a speaker directly to the C64 user port too
[16:07] <fsphil> still don't know how that didn't break something
[16:07] <fsphil> it's amazing any of my old computers survived
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[16:08] <NigelMoby> Picochu ... has been sheepnapped :(
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[16:10] <SpeedEvil> Nooooooooooooooooo!
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[16:12] <fsphil> Baaaaaaaah!
[16:12] <NigelMoby> no sign of it, no signal either. and don't like wet fields, yuck!!!
[16:13] <SpeedEvil> It's a lot more fun in the summer.
[16:14] <NigelMoby> lol yes, u don't sink into the ground by a ft for a start!!
[16:14] <gonzo_> I have a bag of BPW34 photodiodes somewhere
[16:15] <gonzo_> could do a chan of measurement
[16:17] <fsphil> I think I asked this before -- driving a high power led (1 watt) -- transistor or mosfet?
[16:17] <gonzo_> I would use a mosfet
[16:18] <fsphil> are they fast enough for doing pwm?
[16:18] <fsphil> at about 15khz?
[16:18] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[16:18] <gonzo_> Almost certainly, could not think of one that wasn't
[16:18] <SpeedEvil> Why are you doing PWM
[16:19] <fsphil> going back to the optical rtty beacon idea
[16:19] <SpeedEvil> ah
[16:20] <fsphil> well, optical psk
[16:20] <gonzo_> for rx'ing whilst in flight?
[16:20] <fsphil> tx'ing from the payload
[16:21] <gonzo_> would not get much range.
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[16:21] <fsphil> some people have managed pretty impressive ranges from mountain tops
[16:21] <fsphil> though fair enough that had gain on both sides
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[16:22] <gonzo_> yep, but they use 3W tx and that's focused at the target
[16:22] <gonzo_> a simple lens gives a hell of a gain
[16:22] <fsphil> that + slow data mode
[16:22] <gonzo_> I've built a light rx with a 4" lens
[16:23] <fsphil> (that == 3w led)
[16:23] <gonzo_> actually needs a lot of light
[16:23] <gonzo_> An interesting experiment, but I'd fly a std tx too
[16:23] <fsphil> oh yes, this is just to play with
[16:24] <fsphil> my max range at the moment is about 10 cm :)
[16:24] <fsphil> standard led driven from the avr directly
[16:24] <gonzo_> you will find the sensitivity of miost optival sensors drops a lot at highre freqs, so a low freq carrier would be better
[16:24] <fsphil> 15khz too high?
[16:25] <gonzo_> keep it down to say, 1.5khz
[16:25] <fsphil> will try that
[16:25] <fsphil> receiver in that case was a small solar cell
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[16:25] <gonzo_> the BPW34 diodes I have were actually for another light rx
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[16:26] <gonzo_> my first one has a burr-brown detector chip, op221?
[16:26] <gonzo_> many of the detectors are just small solar cells, with a few mm2 area
[16:27] <gonzo_> prob is, they are quite capacitive, and you have to use a high impeeadence amp, which is where the frequency roll off comes from.
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[16:29] <NigelMoby> hey Dan
[16:30] <SpeedEvil> transimpedence amps
[16:30] <Dan-K2VOL> hey Nigel
[16:30] <SpeedEvil> You keep the voltage across the diode constnat
[16:30] <Dan-K2VOL> good timing, I've been away from my desk all day
[16:31] <SpeedEvil> this reduces the capacitive effect
[16:32] <blue_iguana> Hello, do we have a little article for the hab predictor online?
[16:33] <blue_iguana> Just an intro
[16:33] <NigelMoby> no sign of the payload Dan.
[16:33] <NigelMoby> think its been sheepnapped
[16:33] <Dan-K2VOL> :( sorry to hear nigey
[16:33] <Dan-K2VOL> any message for finders on it?
[16:33] <Dan-K2VOL> haha
[16:33] <gonzo_> they don't run them biased as photodiodes, but use a high Z amp to use the generated voltage
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[16:33] <NigelMoby> there us an email address this time.
[16:33] <Dan-K2VOL> we all know sheep like leaded solder
[16:33] <Dan-K2VOL> cool
[16:33] <NigelMoby> lol
[16:34] <NigelMoby> weather in risca was dire
[16:34] <Dan-K2VOL> I found one of our UTARC payloads, UX-3, in a cow pasture with a cow chewing on the parachute
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[16:35] <NigelMoby> Lolol bloody eck
[16:35] <Dan-K2VOL> luckily she wasn't too keen on the flavor, as she didn't mind handing it over
[16:35] <NigelMoby> the payloads dead by now, batteries would've run out.
[16:36] <NigelMoby> or the rains killed it.
[16:36] <Dan-K2VOL> hey we got the first serial protocol captures from the in reach last night!
[16:36] <fsphil> or it took off again
[16:36] <Dan-K2VOL> ooh
[16:36] <Dan-K2VOL> actually possible
[16:36] <NigelMoby> hmm that's possible.
[16:36] <Dan-K2VOL> the rain added about 4kg to our ZP balloon last weekend
[16:37] <NigelMoby> nothing with the Yagi though and were pretty high up this afternoon
[16:37] <NigelMoby> 4? crikey
[16:37] <Dan-K2VOL> all the ropes soaked, with the 10m x 2m plastic wrinkled up
[16:37] <NigelMoby> Ahh of course
[16:38] <NigelMoby> u wouldn't think it adds that much though.
[16:38] <Dan-K2VOL> I'm going to post the video later this week, you can see me holding the helium pipe in the vent hole, and it looks like someone has a garden water hose on the balloon pouring into my lap
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[16:38] <NigelMoby> lol oh dear
[16:38] <Dan-K2VOL> I would never launch a long duration flight in rain, but it really was ok for the burst test
[16:39] <Dan-K2VOL> though miserable
[16:39] <fsphil> will the balloon fly again?
[16:39] <Dan-K2VOL> in 10C weather
[16:39] <NigelMoby> do you have an idea of when Ull b ready to try a launch Dan?
[16:39] <Dan-K2VOL> as soon as we get a comm controller programmed to talk to the in reach, likely mid January
[16:40] <Dan-K2VOL> the vent valve will be easy and done well before that
[16:40] <NigelMoby> oh that's cool.
[16:40] <NigelMoby> antennas all sorted?
[16:40] <Dan-K2VOL> fsphil it certainly could, it's got no major ruptures, but I wouldn't, the cardboard load ring got completely saturated and soggy
[16:40] <Dan-K2VOL> and it likely experienced creep
[16:41] <Dan-K2VOL> at 600 pascals
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[16:41] <Dan-K2VOL> it's too big for us to be able to afford the stretch testing needed to verify that creep though
[16:41] <Dan-K2VOL> (would cost $300USD in helium)
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[16:41] <NigelMoby> how would u test that properly?
[16:42] <Dan-K2VOL> oh nigel, the antenna is beautiful, it's 3cm long attached to the PCB
[16:42] <Dan-K2VOL> same way as the superpressure stretch test
[16:42] <NigelMoby> Wah...lol nice!!!
[16:42] <Dan-K2VOL> fill with helium, measure lift at full volume
[16:42] <Dan-K2VOL> would have had to do it before the potential creep event though
[16:42] <Dan-K2VOL> for a volume comparison
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[16:43] <Dan-K2VOL> we also don't have a building tall enough to do that in, it's 10m tall
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[16:43] <NigelMoby> Yup, would have to be pretty accurate mind
[16:43] <Dan-K2VOL> though I wonder if you could do it with a calibrated helium-air mixture for much cheaper, and much less force involved
[16:44] <NigelMoby> Hm possibly
[16:44] <NigelMoby> or hydrogen ..
[16:44] <Dan-K2VOL> at sea level 20 m^3 of helium will lift a lot, almost dangerously
[16:44] <NigelMoby> cheaper...
[16:45] <Dan-K2VOL> true, but I'm not going to use hydrogen with polyethylene being so far along the triboeletric series
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[16:45] <NigelMoby> lol not the best idea
[16:45] <Dan-K2VOL> *triboelectric
[16:45] <NigelMoby> that's static right?
[16:45] <Dan-K2VOL> have you read about the flight of Explorer 1 balloon?
[16:46] <NigelMoby> no?
[16:46] <Dan-K2VOL> the triboelectric series is a list of materials tendencies to generate static when rubbed against materials at the other end of the series
[16:46] <Dan-K2VOL> http://www.trifield.com/content/tribo-electric-series/
[16:47] <NigelMoby> Oo cheers
[16:47] <Dan-K2VOL> here's one with air, thoug it's not very well cited: http://amasci.com/emotor/tribo.html
[16:48] <Dan-K2VOL> you see air and Polyethylene are at extreme ends
[16:48] <Dan-K2VOL> the farther apart on the spectrum, the larger and easier the charge is generated
[16:48] <NigelMoby> Oook, best stay away from hydrogen then !!
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[16:49] <NigelMoby> didn't NASA have concerns about this with the ares launch?
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[16:50] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah, the explorer balloon used hydrogen and a static discharge ignited the hydrogen on descent after the balloon ripped open http://stratocat.com.ar/artics/explorer-e.htm
[16:50] <Dan-K2VOL> amazingly the crew escaped
[16:50] <Dan-K2VOL> I can't recall about the ares launch
[16:50] <NigelMoby> Blimey talk about lucky escape.
[16:50] <Dan-K2VOL> yes indeed, it's a great read on that page
[16:50] <Dan-K2VOL> very good pics of the flaming balloon coming down and making a crater
[16:51] <Dan-K2VOL> in black and white, so you have to imagine the flamey bits
[16:51] <russss> early manned stratospheric ballooning is covered pretty well in the (jollily-named) book "Disasters and Accidents in Manned Spaceflight"
[16:51] <russss> quite interesting
[16:51] <Dan-K2VOL> oh nice, russss I'll take a look
[16:51] <russss> it's a decent book
[16:51] <NigelMoby> that's a hell of a crater
[16:52] <Dan-K2VOL> it was a pretty heavy gondola :-)
[16:52] <Dan-K2VOL> probably hit at a few hundred miles per hour
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[16:52] <NigelMoby> is love to launch a Hab with sensors and HD cam right into a thunderstorm
[16:52] <NigelMoby> I'd*
[16:54] <gonzo_> but what would the air currents do to it?
[16:55] <NigelMoby> I imagine quite a lot of damage.
[16:57] <NigelMoby> but if it survived, would be some great images
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[17:00] <Upu> Yikes from tame insurance broker :
[17:00] <Upu> Regarding weather balloons I am now in contact with Lloyds of London and I am sure they will come back with many further questions, which I will forward to you in due course.
[17:00] <Upu> They will only look at a policy covering the association I imagine, therefore my advices to follow.
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[17:03] <NigelMoby> lloyds? that's gonna cost....
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[17:05] <Dan-K2VOL> NigelMoby we basically did that on SPITBall-1, unintentially, all that's missing is the lightning
[17:06] <Dan-K2VOL> had a Go Pro onboard, will post later this week, it was EXTREMELY violent
[17:06] <NigelMoby> Yup lol would be a cool thing to try I think.
[17:06] <Dan-K2VOL> from 1km to 6km
[17:06] <Dan-K2VOL> definitely good to try in real lightning storm
[17:06] <W0OTM> Howdy
[17:06] <NigelMoby> you guys get much better storms over there though.
[17:07] <NigelMoby> hey marshal
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[17:13] <Dan-K2VOL> hey Marshall
[17:15] <NigelMoby> Dan I have a spare foil balloon here... anything useful I can do with it?
[17:15] <Dan-K2VOL> Make a hat?
[17:15] <Dan-K2VOL> :-P
[17:15] <NigelMoby> lol
[17:15] <Dan-K2VOL> I'd recommend saving it for a stretch test for when you or someone has the full setup ready
[17:16] <NigelMoby> he's not picked the he up yet :(
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[17:16] <NigelMoby> should've been here at 4pm
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[17:34] Nick change: SamSilver -> SamSilver_
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[18:35] <NigelMoby> hrm uksa are putting up a new satellite constellation
[18:37] <Dan-K2VOL> interesting
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[18:37] <NigelMoby> novasar
[18:38] <NigelMoby> 4 earth resources sats
[18:39] <NigelMoby> http://www.bis.gov.uk/ukspaceagency/news-and-events/2011/Nov/government-and-industry-to-invest-in-world-leading-uk-satellite-constellation
[18:41] <Dan-K2VOL> could use some more weather sats with the US congress not funding future ones very well
[18:42] <NigelMoby> they cut funding again?
[18:43] <Dan-K2VOL> oh I don't know, that's been the general trend
[18:45] <NigelMoby> Meh
[18:48] <fsphil> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=a1fb6c56a920b21fdd572d23090c7601129193a6 and http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=777bd892d659af4d6c50db2a30762ff6eaf6ae82
[18:48] <fsphil> this weekends predictions so far
[18:49] <NigelMoby> now that's what u call coast2coast Phil
[18:50] <fsphil> it's much stronger winds than last weekend
[18:51] <fsphil> 30km/h on saturday, with some rain
[18:51] <fsphil> no sunday forecast yet
[18:51] <fsphil> also 6c .. brrr
[18:51] <NigelMoby> Eek
[18:52] <Upu> http://www.wunderground.com/wundermap/?lat=53.41670&lon=-3.00000&zoom=4&type=hyb&units=metric&rad=0&wxsn=0&svr=0&cams=0&sat=0&riv=0&mm=1&mm.mdl=GFS&mm.type=200&mm.hour=0&mm.opa=100&mm.clk=0&hur=0&fire=0&tor=0&ndfd=0&pix=0&dir=0&ads=0&tfk=0&ski=0&stormreports=0
[18:52] <NigelMoby> weathers very anti Hab at the mo.
[18:52] <fsphil> epic
[18:53] <fsphil> man we really are very far north
[18:53] <NigelMoby> Oo just look at those isobars
[18:53] <eroomde> i read that with a high pitched german accent
[18:53] <eroomde> 'unt look at zis isobars!'
[18:53] <NigelMoby> lol hey ed
[18:53] <eroomde> 'vere ist mein handi?'
[18:54] <eroomde> (ref: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WIscxut_ak )
[18:55] <eroomde> and yes we are north
[18:55] <eroomde> actually last year a visited tromso, which is northerer than is on that map
[18:56] <eroomde> and when I looked at the map, I thought 'jesus, I am really am far north!'
[18:56] <NigelMoby> were very lucky to get warm weather thus far north.
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[18:57] <eroomde> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/Panorama_fjellheisen-improved.jpg
[18:57] <eroomde> yes it was chilly there
[18:57] <eroomde> you can imagine
[18:58] <russss> looks nice
[19:00] <NigelMoby> ah that's a view!!
[19:00] <jusis707> Hello! can you help with helium calculation, i expect payload of 2 kg and baloon HAB-1500, how much helium do i need?
[19:01] <NigelMoby> lots. :)
[19:01] <Upu> £250
[19:01] <Upu> serious face :
[19:01] <Upu> 2kg is pretty heavy can that be reduced ?
[19:01] <jusis707> i know baloon of 7.3 cu/m will cost about 260$
[19:01] <Upu> what make of balloon is it
[19:01] Action: eroomde looks sheepish
[19:01] <Upu> what ascent rate do you want
[19:02] Action: Upu lols at eroomde
[19:02] <jusis707> yeh i can reduce it to 1.7
[19:02] <NigelMoby> http://www.cusf.co.uk/calc/
[19:02] <NigelMoby> try that.
[19:02] <Upu> yeah that will help
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[19:03] <jusis707> thanks
[19:06] <NigelMoby> ed...
[19:06] <NigelMoby> at what point in flight, do the balloons start expanding to silly sizes?
[19:07] <Zuph> Immediately after opening the valve on the helium tank.
[19:08] <NigelMoby> lol I knew that was coming
[19:08] <NigelMoby> hey brad :)
[19:08] Action: Upu books Zuph for a party
[19:08] <Zuph> I'm here all night
[19:08] <Upu> :)
[19:09] <jusis707> i got launch volume 4.61 cu/m and volume of helium gas tank is 7.3 cu/m, how to know how much gas is in the balloon, to get 4.61?
[19:09] <NigelMoby> I mean, is it a gradual expansion, or does it get past a certain point where its a rapid expansion?
[19:09] <Upu> will tell you the neck lift jusis707
[19:10] <Upu> fill a container with water to that weight, when its neutrally buoyant with that hanging off it you have your volume
[19:11] <Upu> what make of balloon is it jusis707 ?
[19:11] <jusis707> what will happens if i fill more gas as needed? or less? is it critical?
[19:12] <NigelMoby> it'll go up faster
[19:12] <Upu> ascent rate goes up
[19:12] <Upu> may burst sooner
[19:12] <Upu> change ascent rate to 6m/s
[19:12] <jusis707> balloon HAB-1500 kaymont
[19:12] <Upu> target ascent
[19:12] <Upu> now change the payload mass to 1000g
[19:13] <Upu> and save yourself alot of gas :)
[19:13] <jusis707> i got 5.83
[19:13] <Upu> and its safer
[19:13] <jusis707> sorry 4.83
[19:14] <Upu> also try this put target ascent 3.5 in , payload mass 1000 and then note the altiude it should get too
[19:14] <Upu> lots of variables
[19:16] <eroomde> jusis707: if it's a normal launch (say a box with a camera to take cool pictures) then most of us aim for an ascent rate of about 4-5m/s and we aim to get above 30000m altitude
[19:16] <eroomde> so we play with the calculator to see what balloon we need
[19:16] <jusis707> alright
[19:17] <eroomde> you can get pretty high with a kaymont 1500g
[19:17] <Upu> oh btw my local Tesco's has Energizer Lithiums on offer @ £5 for 4 x AA dunno if thats a UK wide thing
[19:17] <eroomde> but as Upu says, there are lots of variables you can play with depending on what you want to do. did you understand the bit about how to fill correctly?
[19:17] <Upu> I keep slipping a packet in with the weekly shopping so the wife doesn't notice
[19:18] <eroomde> Upu: I bought a box of 72 for £56
[19:18] <eroomde> in bulk
[19:18] <Upu> even better
[19:18] <eroomde> 18 packs in their wholesale box
[19:18] <Upu> where from ?
[19:18] <jusis707> if the ascent rate is lower than 4, does it means that balloon will do larger distance, horizontal (winds etc.)
[19:18] <eroomde> let me dig it up...
[19:18] <eroomde> jusis707: yes correct
[19:18] <eroomde> if that's ok with you, then fine
[19:18] <Upu> jusis707 yep this can be demonstrated using the predictor
[19:18] <eroomde> you can try it out at cusf.co.uk/predict
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[19:19] <Laurenceb_> hi all
[19:19] <eroomde> see how far it will drift on a given day from a given launch ite
[19:19] <Upu> http://habhub.org/predict/
[19:19] <Upu> evening Laurenceb
[19:19] <jusis707> no it`s not ok :) i have to countries where i need to get visa, if impact will be in those countries
[19:19] Action: Laurenceb_ has a new project https://github.com/Laurenceb/STM32-Logger
[19:19] <Upu> well you need to plan it alot better than most of us :)
[19:20] <Laurenceb_> boring but got to be usefule for someone :P
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[19:20] <jusis707> i can change location of launch, a made prediction for today here http://weather.uwyo.edu/polar/balloon_traj.html
[19:21] <jusis707> and i had 174km total distance from launch to impact, and impact was too close to border
[19:21] <Upu> looks good, I think the one here may be a little more complete
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[19:22] <eroomde> yeah, the wymoing one was around before any of us started
[19:22] <eroomde> but we ended up writing the cusf one due to its limitations
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[19:22] <jusis707> 174 km is it regular distance for balloons?
[19:22] <eroomde> Upu: price has gone up!! http://www.battery-force.co.uk/detail_ENFR6Y072A-Energizer-Ultimate-Lithium-AA-L91-Battery-Box-of-72.html
[19:22] <eroomde> still cheaper than tesco
[19:22] <Upu> ta
[19:24] <Upu> saves £6.33 over Tesco
[19:25] <nosebleedKT> eroomde: where is the price ?
[19:26] <daveake_> top-right
[19:26] <Upu> Energizer Ultimate Lithium AA/L91 Battery Box of 72 Energizer Ultimate Lithium AA/L91 Battery Box of 72
[19:26] <Upu> Subtotal £76.72
[19:26] <Upu> Delivery (STANDARD) £6.95
[19:26] <Upu> Order Total (including VAT) £83.67
[19:27] <nosebleedKT> oh
[19:27] <Upu> i.e £1.16 each or £1.25 from Tescos on offer
[19:28] <nosebleedKT> 4+2 FREE for £6.73 inc VAT ?
[19:28] <jusis707> i have gopro hd camera, i did a lot skydiving with that, does it fits for high altitude filming?
[19:30] <jusis707> how much time does it takes, from launch to impact, aprox? and do i need extra batteries for gopro camera?
[19:30] <eroomde> jusis707: about 3-4 hours usually
[19:31] <eroomde> 2.something hours up, about 45 mins down. obviously depends a lot on your ascent rate and burst altitude
[19:31] <eroomde> when calculating gopro time, consider both battery and recording time
[19:31] <eroomde> and remember there is often more faffinf around on the ground before launch than you expect
[19:32] <jusis707> yeah, and what about temperatures, batteries will run out faster, right?
[19:32] <daveake_> Not much, assuming Lithium Energizer
[19:32] <eroomde> a little, although we find that cameras generate so much heat it's not usually a problem
[19:33] <daveake_> The generated heat will stop them getting too cold
[19:33] <jusis707> do you use some kind of chargers, for example from regular AA baterries to mini USB input for camera
[19:34] <daveake_> You can but I don't. The video camera I use takes AAs. I parallel up 2 sets externally to get enough run time.
[19:34] <jusis707> i have an external battery for go pro, but i think its not enough :(
[19:34] <daveake_> The stills camera is OK on 2 internal AAs
[19:34] <eroomde> jusis707: best to work it out
[19:34] <eroomde> leave it recording and see how long you get
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[19:35] <daveake_> Also tells you if the memory card is big enough :)
[19:35] <eroomde> indeed
[19:35] <daveake_> And if you're using a stills camera, that in turn reminds you to switch off RAW file storage :p
[19:36] <jusis707> and tested Sony-Ericcson Active android phone, i started recording and phone switched of camera after 45 min. by itself , i thought to put inside a box that phone too
[19:36] <daveake_> Yeah, standby modes are another gotcha
[19:37] <jusis707> it`s tough phone, waterproof , shock proof etc., sad
[19:37] <daveake_> eroomde I *might* be launching on Sunday from near home. Dunno if you want to come and help/watch
[19:37] <daveake_> Prediction says I need a passport if I do go and chase it
[19:38] <eroomde> annoyingly it's an east anglian rocketry society launch on sun which i'm already commited too
[19:38] <eroomde> otherwise i would
[19:38] <daveake_> ok, never mind!
[19:39] <daveake_> If not this w/e then next poss is 2 weeks hence ('cos I'm working the w/e between)
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[19:41] <jusis707> can you suggest any android app for logging, position and altitudes
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[19:42] <daveake_> I've used "Open GPS Tracker" but not for HABing
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[19:46] <jusis707> whats is common material for payload container? regular foam? do i need to cover container with foil?
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[19:47] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[19:50] <daveake_> Expanded polystyrene + gaffer tape
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[19:53] <Lunar_Lander> xD daveake_ what are you up to
[20:02] <daveake_> Up to?
[20:03] <Lunar_Lander> what are you doing?
[20:04] <daveake_> OIC .... not a lot. Am at home for a change. Been away a lot for work. Away again tomorrow for a couple of days.
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[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:06] <daveake_> Hopefully I'll have enough time Friday or Saturday to get a payload ready :)
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> yay!
[20:07] <fsphil> sweet
[20:07] <fsphil> other than batteries this one is ready
[20:08] <daveake_> I guess you've had plenty of time :p
[20:08] <daveake_> I have all I need .... flight computer, batteries, foam ball, notam, gas, passport ....
[20:09] <fsphil> slightly yea lol
[20:11] <fsphil> guessing there's no such thing as a mosfet that can be switched on with 3.3v
[20:12] <daveake_> Yes there is
[20:12] <daveake_> The one I used for Buzz's cutdown switched fine from 3V3
[20:12] <fsphil> ah wait, I was looking at the wrong parameter
[20:12] <fsphil> threshold voltage is it?
[20:12] <daveake_> Prolly.
[20:14] <fsphil> oh there's loads
[20:14] <fsphil> power dissipation -- guessing they're quite efficient so this can be low?
[20:15] <daveake_> Yeah, the one I used had a very low on resistance (which is why I chose it), so low power disipation. Rated for 5A but still only a TO92 plastic package
[20:16] <fsphil> haha, 7p
[20:17] <fsphil> although only rated up to 400ma
[20:17] <fsphil> http://cpc.farnell.com/fairchild-semiconductor/bs270/mosfet-n-to-92/dp/SC06958
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[20:47] <gonzo_> anyone know if the fldigi checksum includes the * character?
[20:47] <fsphil> it doesn't
[20:47] <fsphil> everything between the $$ and *
[20:47] <gonzo_> ta
[20:48] <fsphil> but not including
[20:48] <gonzo_> rgr
[20:57] <gonzo_> phil, is fldidg one of your projects?
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> it is by jamescoxon IIRC
[20:58] <gonzo_> thanks, nice to know who's who in the world
[20:59] <fsphil> it's a sort of group effort
[20:59] <fsphil> mostly DanielRichman at the moment
[21:00] <gonzo_> wondering how I can get it to do a packet validation on my telem strings/
[21:01] <fsphil> ideally you need the payload setup in habitat
[21:01] <DanielRichman> fldigi won't print it if the checksum doesn't match. It will tell you (by colouring it red or green)
[21:01] <fsphil> then you can select it from the list
[21:01] <DanielRichman> I think it will check the checksum even if the payload is not configured (?)
[21:01] <DanielRichman> the new one will
[21:01] <fsphil> yea
[21:01] <DanielRichman> s/will/does/
[21:01] <fsphil> I've seen it display red even with some random data
[21:02] <gonzo_> eve
[21:02] <DanielRichman> anyway in addition the string is submitted to habitat even if the checksum is bad (in the future we might add some crazy bot that tries to fix single bit errors, etc). habitat is very very strict and won't parse data with a bad checksum
[21:02] <gonzo_> does it care what the format is?
[21:02] <gonzo_> I've tried simple strings and still no green
[21:03] <fsphil> DanielRichman, ooh -- average out strings submitted from multiple users if none have a valid checksum
[21:03] <DanielRichman> $$some,data,and,stuff*XX checksum
[21:03] <DanielRichman> fsphil: yeah that kind of thing ;-)
[21:03] <DanielRichman> realistically though we don't lose enough strings to make it worth it
[21:03] <fsphil> the apx decoder will eventually do something similar -- it will use parts of the previous packet to try and fill in errors
[21:04] <fsphil> optional deep search kind of thing
[21:04] <gonzo_> just XORing the charahetsr in, between the $ and *, seed of zero ?
[21:04] <fsphil> you're better to use the 16-bit checksum
[21:05] <DanielRichman> Ignore both $$s; and yeah the 16bit checksum is superior. Sample code is on the wiki
[21:05] <gonzo_> starting simple
[21:05] <DanielRichman> and I can assure that it works
[21:05] <DanielRichman> which microcontroller are you using?
[21:05] <fsphil> we've never had a false-positive with the 16-bit one
[21:06] <DanielRichman> fsphil: hey once we had a string where the checksum was *123C (or something) and one bit flipped, *123c was uploaded and it passed (naturally) :P
[21:06] <eroomde> yeah don't xor
[21:06] <gonzo_> I'm only one step up from assembler, so no libraries to use
[21:06] <DanielRichman> which micro & compiler? AVR & avr-libc?
[21:06] <gonzo_> pic 16f here
[21:06] <DanielRichman> ah
[21:07] <eroomde> i have just scored a tektronix TDS 210 fo frizzle
[21:07] <eroomde> this calls for a biscuit
[21:07] <gonzo_> don't do lib's, like to have all the source
[21:07] <daveake_> mmmbiscuits
[21:07] <eroomde> the libs are the source in this case
[21:07] <eroomde> no static linking
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[21:14] <fsphil> farnells sites seem to be down more than up this week
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[21:23] <gonzo_> just manually calculated the crc, think my code is right. But fldigi is not showing green, so must be something else
[21:23] <gonzo_> setting?
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[21:25] <dub_> The IC is powered by RF energy harvesting and consumes less than 1.23mW. It digitizes 10 neural and 4 EMG signals with 11 bit resolution as a 5 Mbps backscattered data stream at UHF http://robots.net/article/3269.html
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[21:31] <fsphil> gonzo_, can you print an example string?
[21:32] <gonzo_> yep, sec
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[21:32] <gonzo_> $$G0NZO1,056,21:31:22,+5044.1494,-00156.2178,40.0,0044,0000,0041,0000,0041*00
[21:33] <RocketBoy> NigleyS:
[21:34] <RocketBoy> what I mean is NigeyS:
[21:34] <NigeyS> hey steve
[21:34] <RocketBoy> did you get it back?
[21:35] <NigeyS> nope, no signal, got soaked, and muddy ! i think it's been sheepnapped!
[21:35] <RocketBoy> oh no - what a pain
[21:35] <NigeyS> a bit gutted as i wanted the ublox 6 back, but meh .. guess the rain got inside it and killed it, if the batteries didnt run out
[21:35] <fsphil> looks fine gonzo_
[21:36] <fsphil> that checksum is correct
[21:36] <NigeyS> steve, when you deadbugged that bmp085, did you use a capacitor on it ?
[21:36] <RocketBoy> yeah I guess the battery life was going to be marginal for today
[21:37] <gonzo_> just run that through on the calculator too. Ta for the check
[21:37] <RocketBoy> yeah - a 100nf surface mount
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> hey RocketBoy NigeyS
[21:37] <NigeyS> i think it was more the rain, payload was well wrapped, but rainn in wales overnight was torrential :/
[21:37] <RocketBoy> have you got the picture still
[21:37] <NigeyS> no, i lost the pic, i thought i saw a cap but wasnt 100% sure
[21:37] <NigeyS> got some 100nf's here but their through hole, should be fun
[21:38] <NigeyS> hey lunar
[21:41] <joph> i can't await the raspberry pi - thinking about a fish eye lense and a handy camera module for UAV or air pictures :D
[21:42] <RocketBoy> http://imagebin.org/186252
[21:43] <RocketBoy> http://imagebin.org/186253
[21:43] <RocketBoy> almost made for it
[21:43] <RocketBoy> the pinout almost matches the ribbon cable spacing
[21:43] <NigeyS> hah thats a perfect fit if ever ive seen one !
[21:44] <RocketBoy> must get back to that little project
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> xD yea joph
[21:45] <NigeyS> yup, some good data coming out of that Steve
[21:45] <joph> Lunar_Lander, and there's a fish eye lense from dealextreme for around 20-25$
[21:45] <Lunar_Lander> awesome!
[21:47] <joph> 185° pictures, thats more something for home surveillance or art ;)
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[21:54] <WillDuckworth> hey NigeyS
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> yeah joph
[21:54] <NigeyS> hey will!
[21:54] <NigeyS> how's things ?
[21:54] <WillDuckworth> all good thanks. i've had a thought for your next pico balloon........
[21:55] <WillDuckworth> extra thick rubber jonny....
[21:56] <WillDuckworth> one for the balloon and one to wrap the payload - what do you reckon?!?? lol
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> you mean the one for $24.30 joph?
[21:56] <NigeyS> hahaha nice plan :p
[21:56] <joph> Lunar_Lander, yeah
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[21:57] <joph> but that's not necessary for an uav
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> but would give amazing balloon photos
[21:57] <joph> 5MP pictures are great ;)
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[21:58] <joph> http://www.areamobile.de/testberichte/12451s3-nokia-n95-computer-2-0-oder-supersmartphone-dieses-handy-ist-und-kann-alles
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:59] <joph> so, time to say goodbye ;)
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> and today, a woman at uni told me she got engaged this weekend
[21:59] <joph> good night
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> that was cool too!
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> gn8 joph
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[23:07] <Laurenceb_> Randomskk: ping
[23:07] <Randomskk> hi
[23:08] <Laurenceb_> hey there
[23:08] <Laurenceb_> can i ask about your camera
[23:08] <Randomskk> sure, which?
[23:08] <Laurenceb_> interfaced with stm32, how did you do that?
[23:08] <Laurenceb_> its parallel right?
[23:08] <Randomskk> sweat and tears
[23:08] <Randomskk> yes
[23:08] <Laurenceb_> at 8mhz clk
[23:08] <Randomskk> 8 bit parallel
[23:08] <Laurenceb_> i see
[23:08] <Randomskk> more like 20mhz I think
[23:08] <Laurenceb_> eeek
[23:08] <Laurenceb_> how the hell did you interface?
[23:09] <Laurenceb_> reading gpio that fast?
[23:09] <Randomskk> https://github.com/adamgreig/followingrobot/blob/master/main.c#L463-490
[23:09] <Randomskk> can't have been 20mhz
[23:09] <Randomskk> no way did I have enough clocks
[23:09] <Randomskk> okay I think 20mhz was the specced lowest speed
[23:10] <Randomskk> but I way, way underclocked it
[23:10] <Laurenceb_> ah i see
[23:10] <Randomskk> aha, 6MHz
[23:10] <Lunar_Lander> hi Randomskk what kind of camera is it?
[23:11] <Laurenceb_> interesting, thanks
[23:11] <Laurenceb_> "just" bit banged in asm
[23:11] <Randomskk> Lunar_Lander: TCM8230MD or something
[23:11] <Randomskk> it's a little embedded thing
[23:11] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[23:11] <Randomskk> Laurenceb_: yea, bitbanged direct into RAM, then a DMA to write that out to an SPI LCD
[23:11] <Randomskk> then some basic online (well, line by line) image analysis
[23:12] <Randomskk> Lunar_Lander: this http://www.sparkfun.com/products/8667
[23:12] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[23:12] <Laurenceb_> thanks
[23:12] <Randomskk> np
[23:12] <Randomskk> this was like the first thing I ever did with STM32 and one of my earliest embedded projects, might not do it the same way today, not sure
[23:12] <Laurenceb_> i got my datalogger finished btw - on github
[23:13] <Laurenceb_> well F4 has a camera interface
[23:13] <Randomskk> actually I wouldn't even bother trying to interface the camera to the stm32 these days, using a microchip with camera interface makes 100x more sense
[23:13] <Randomskk> exactly
[23:13] <Lunar_Lander> thanks Randomskk
[23:13] <Laurenceb_> usb is annoyingly slow
[23:13] <Randomskk> it is, isn't it!
[23:13] <Randomskk> really shit
[23:13] <Randomskk> you'd think it'd be fast
[23:13] <Laurenceb_> im only getting 600KB/s throughput
[23:13] <Randomskk> but noo
[23:13] <Randomskk> saleae's Logic has this issue
[23:13] <Laurenceb_> at 12Mbps
[23:13] <Laurenceb_> bbl
[23:24] <gonzo_> anything over 9k6 is the devils work
[23:26] <fsphil> my first modem was 14.4k :)
[23:28] <Lunar_Lander> xD!
[23:28] <gonzo_> 300bd this way
[23:29] <gonzo_> then 1200/75 which was incredible speed
[23:29] <Paradoxial> The STM32 has a camera interface
[23:29] <Laurenceb_> the F4 does
[23:29] <fsphil> why in my day, we whistled the tones down the phone and wrote the result on paper
[23:29] <Paradoxial> The F2 does as well
[23:30] <gonzo_> 'course we 'ad it tough!
[23:32] <fsphil> it was still the net though, and I was well chuffed when I seen the first page load
[23:33] <fsphil> of course in the next few months I ran up such a phone bill that I wasn't allowed online for a good while :)
[23:45] <Laurenceb_> http://www.coolcomponents.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=820
[23:45] <Laurenceb_> thats horrific
[23:46] <Laurenceb_> i need the eyebleach
[23:48] <NigeyS> 170quid :o
[23:49] <Laurenceb_> cables _everywhere_
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[23:51] <NigeyS> hey james
[23:51] <jcoxon> hey
[23:51] <jcoxon> NigeyS, recover the payload?
[23:51] <NigeyS> nah, just got wet and covered in mud instead :(
[23:51] <NigeyS> not even a blip from it over the radio
[23:52] <SpeedEvil> Mud is good for the complexion!
[23:52] <NigeyS> lol on my face maybe, but not upto my shins! lol
[23:52] <SpeedEvil> There are expensive clinics you can go to get it smeared on you.
[23:52] <NigeyS> even the sheep werent amused!
[23:55] <jcoxon> finally managing to decode some aprs
[23:56] <NigeyS> ah what was the problem ?
[23:56] <jcoxon> not really sure
[23:56] <jcoxon> i think my local area is sparse in signal
[23:58] <Lunar_Lander> hey jcoxon
[00:00] --- Wed Nov 30 2011