highaltitude.log.20111122

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[08:04] <earthshine> o/
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[13:51] <WillDuckworth> hey fsphil - was looking at your ssdv stuff - really easy to get going, thanks
[13:52] <fsphil> ooh, good to hear. no problems?
[13:52] <WillDuckworth> worked ok with my webcam. thinking of getting a linksprite type jpeg jobby
[13:52] <WillDuckworth> to use with a gumstix
[13:52] <WillDuckworth> what do you think?
[13:53] <fsphil> that'll work -- the linksprite jpegs don't work directly, but a gumstix has enough power to convert it
[13:54] <fsphil> something like the avr doesn't, which is where nosebleedKT is stuck at the moment
[13:55] <WillDuckworth> plus i've got an audiostix which jcoxon kindly lent me - need to brush it all off and get cracking!
[13:55] <nosebleedKT> hi
[13:55] <nosebleedKT> where im stuck fsphil?
[13:56] <fsphil> with the linksprite + ssdv
[13:57] <nosebleedKT> ah,yeah. actually you 'stuck' me :P
[13:58] <nosebleedKT> see, more and more people want ssdv with linksprite
[13:58] <nosebleedKT> :)
[13:58] <fsphil> I could make a quick hack to make it work, but without colour :)
[13:59] <daveake> fsphil / nosebleedKT what's the AVR limitation with ssdv ... not enough ram? rom? processor power?
[13:59] <fsphil> actually I don't think I could do that either. there just isn't enough memory
[13:59] <daveake> I see you answered already :D
[13:59] <fsphil> yep lol
[13:59] <daveake> How much is needed, roughly?
[14:00] <nosebleedKT> fsphil: atmega644 got double the 328 in memories
[14:00] <fsphil> good question daveake
[14:00] <daveake> That's why I asked it :)
[14:01] <fsphil> it would need to decode a 16x16 part of the jpeg
[14:01] <daveake> Look, stop answering questions before I ask them :D
[14:02] <fsphil> 768 bytes for that
[14:02] <fsphil> but the big bit might be the order the data is stored in the jpeg
[14:02] <daveake> I was about to say .... presumably you can process blocks at a time. I have a PIC24 with 64kbytes so that should have plenty enough then
[14:02] <fsphil> it might have to store an entire row
[14:02] <fsphil> 64k is loads yea
[14:03] <daveake> I use them on my rally stuff with CCS compiler
[14:03] <fsphil> the 644p has 4k
[14:04] <daveake> [when I were a lad] .... 4k used to be luxury :-) [/when I were a lad]
[14:04] <Zuph> Some of the old architecture AVRs have external RAM buses, if you're feeling freaky.
[14:04] <number10> ah I see its oldie time - sould I join in...
[14:04] <daveake> lol
[14:04] <number10> what am I doing here
[14:04] <fsphil> I was pondering using an sd card as a swap
[14:04] <daveake> That could work
[14:05] <daveake> I guess time isn't a big issue considering the download speed
[14:05] <Zuph> sd is surprisingly slow.
[14:06] <fsphil> the other option is to add a flag to the header and allow different subsampling modes
[14:06] <fsphil> but compression would probably be very poor
[14:07] <fsphil> as it would be using the wrong huffman and quantisation tables
[14:07] <fsphil> plus that's starting to make the format complicated
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[14:11] <WillDuckworth> fsphil - are you sticking with the rtty mode?
[14:11] <WillDuckworth> for ssdv
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[14:30] <TimZaman> can someone set the title in the tracker for me?
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[14:49] <TimZaman> anyone here?
[14:49] <TimZaman> who has experience with the GoPro Hero, and who knows the pitfalls?
[14:50] <hibby> they come off your helmet when kayaking upon cranial contact with rocks
[14:51] <daveake> obvious design fault :)
[14:51] <hibby> that's my experience with mine. way to lose a few hundred quid in a minute
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[14:52] <daveake> which leads us on to the pitfall I see - the price. I'd far sooner lose something like a Kodak Zx1 which I can replace on ebay for £20 or so.
[14:52] <daveake> Which I've done :D
[14:52] <TimZaman> doesnt have a fisheye right
[14:53] <daveake> Nope
[14:53] <hibby> that was our big HAB issue with the gopro
[14:53] <hibby> the fisheye
[14:53] <TimZaman> why
[14:53] <hibby> it really distorted the image of the earth at full height
[14:53] <hibby> lemme pull up the video
[14:53] <hibby> it's nice, but we weren't impressed
[14:54] <hibby> and it steams up on reentry
[14:54] <TimZaman> almost every cam does upon reentering some c louds
[14:54] <hibby> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLj1vKhpeB8
[14:54] <hibby> on the inside
[14:54] <hibby> apparently it can be rectified using tinfoil somewhere, as it happens for us in kayaking too
[14:55] <hibby> if you DIY a case, it'll be fine, however.
[14:55] <daveake> I didn't have any steaming up probs with the Zx1.
[14:55] <Dan-K2VOL> without the waterproof case it would work ok, or if you put dessicant in it a while on the ground hibby
[14:56] <daveake> I didn't have it in a case - it has o-rings and seals on the opening bits
[14:56] <TimZaman> ofcourse i wouldnt use a waterproof case
[14:56] <TimZaman> kind of a rule of thumb. no crap in front of the lens
[14:56] <Dan-K2VOL> oh interesting Daveake, it might be better IN the case having sat a while with dessicant
[14:56] <daveake> Indeed
[14:56] <Dan-K2VOL> they sell packs just for that
[14:57] <Dan-K2VOL> TimZaman I wouldn't for other cams, but if you can do a sealed one with dessicant it's unlikely to fog or frost
[14:57] <TimZaman> not if the outside of the case condenses. and, silica doesnt absorb moisure *that* fase. you might as well squirt some helium in the case
[14:57] <daveake> Extra lift ;)
[14:57] <TimZaman> That too
[14:58] <Dan-K2VOL> heh
[15:00] <Dan-K2VOL> we did the numbers on using a pressurized helium cylinder onboard - if you can get 4000PSI in a 2 litre 5lb cylinder, it does give you more lift than the cylinder weighs, barely, but there was no regulator mechanism and valve that we could find that would keep the whole thing under 6LB. You could then drop the whole thing off later as ballast, but that's not the efficient way to ballast
[15:01] <Dan-K2VOL> (more lift when expanded to atmospheric pressure)
[15:01] <daveake> Another thing with the Zx1 is that it uses quite a bit of power :(, (it has a display which can't be switched off), so it does stay pretty warm.
[15:02] <eroomde> Dan-K2VOL: surely that must be possible
[15:02] <eroomde> you don't need any appreciale flow rate out of the cylinder do you?
[15:03] <fsphil> WillDuckworth, short term yes. rtty is easy. but getting rid of the start and stop bits will save a fair bit
[15:03] <fsphil> but I think some kind of PSK mode would be better
[15:04] <Dan-K2VOL> eroomde I'm sure it is possible, I hope someone investigates it further
[15:04] <eroomde> although 4000psi is quite a lot
[15:04] <eroomde> heck of a cutdown device
[15:04] <Dan-K2VOL> it's just not going to work for SpeedBall transatlantic because dropping one massive 6lbs ballast chunk will waste a ton of helium on the rebound
[15:04] <Dan-K2VOL> we found carbon fiber wrapped aluminum paintball CO2 tanks
[15:05] <Zuph> Would be fun, though :-p
[15:05] <eroomde> can they take 4000psi?
[15:07] <TimZaman> so can someone set the title of the tracker?
[15:07] <Zuph> eroomde: They're rated for it: http://www.ultimatepaintball.com/p-5323-empire-paintball-68ci-4500-psi-n2-carbon-fiber-tank.aspx?CAWELAID=835074319
[15:10] <eroomde> and the pressure would drop too at alt
[15:10] <eroomde> mass?
[15:10] Action: SpeedEvil wonders again about H2 generators.
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[15:14] <Zuph> eroomde: They weigh about 500 grams empty
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[15:17] <Zuph> They can shoot out about 300 grams of lift, IIRC.
[15:17] <eroomde> oh not bad
[15:17] <eroomde> is that within spec?
[15:17] <eroomde> or do you need >1 lift/mass
[15:18] <Zuph> Not if you can dumb the cylinder overboard.
[15:18] <Zuph> *dump
[15:18] Action: SpeedEvil wonders about balls of sodium.
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[15:19] <eroomde> viscious
[15:19] <stml> Hello all - a good friend told me that people here might be able to recommend me the best current place to buy helium...
[15:19] <eroomde> Zuph: how about NaOH fed through an aluminium mesh catalyst pack?
[15:19] <eroomde> venting hydrogen up into the balloon
[15:19] <eroomde> and some fairly inert stuff dropping down as ballast
[15:21] <Zuph> eroomde: Just hope no one in the press finds out you're dangling lye over peoples heads :-p
[15:21] <eroomde> freezing point a bit crap thou
[15:21] <Zuph> I like the idea, though.
[15:21] <eroomde> ah they;d get over it
[15:22] <NigeyMoby> anyone know a vacuum pump design? .. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/22/lohan_pump/
[15:22] <daveake> stml I use www.balloonhelium.co.uk ... dunno if they're the best/cheapest but I did research a few places and they were the best I found
[15:23] <stml> daveake: thank you!
[15:23] <stml> that does look good
[15:24] <eroomde> stml: where are you geographically?
[15:24] <daveake> Last 2 times I bought from there they only had BOC cylinders and no Air Products ones at all. Maybe that's changed now. I prefer AP as the cylinders are lighter and you generally get more for you money. Also you get a level gauge.
[15:24] <stml> I'm in London
[15:24] <NigeyMoby> stml if you get helium try to get it before 1st December, its due to increase in price by about 15%
[15:24] <stml> yup, going to order today I hope!
[15:24] Action: daveake considers getting a big cylinder soon
[15:24] <Zuph> If we could dangle a carbon fibre scuba tank below the balloon, that's 86 cubic feet (2500 l) in a shot :-p
[15:25] <NigeyMoby> lol zuph ure crazy!!
[15:25] <Zuph> A bit heavy, at 5 kg.
[15:25] <daveake> Hydrogen is going to get more and more attractive
[15:25] <eroomde> they're vacuum chamber testing a rocket motor at a hobby level
[15:25] <eroomde> bugger me
[15:25] <eroomde> the must be mental
[15:25] <NigeyMoby> Yup ed lol
[15:25] <NigeyMoby> home made chamber to....
[15:26] <NigeyMoby> what could possibly go wrong.
[15:26] <daveake> :D
[15:26] <eroomde> you need like a double decker bus of a vacuum chamber to get a meaningful ISP value out of even like an F motor
[15:26] <eroomde> I'm saying 'like' to much
[15:26] <eroomde> that's how perplexed I am
[15:27] <NigeyMoby> bless ya lol
[15:27] <hibby> SBJNZ.W #1, msec, mainloop ; Decrement time count, and loop if not zero
[15:27] <hibby> ah, feck... putty. grumblegrumble
[15:28] <eroomde> might work for testing ignition, though
[15:28] <eroomde> i'd just fill it with steam and condense the steam
[15:28] <NigeyMoby> pass, their diagram was enough to put me off taking it serious...
[15:29] <eroomde> there seems to be a noble tradition of that at the reg
[15:30] <NigeyMoby> a bit worrying though...
[15:30] <NigeyMoby> when fiddling with high power rocket engines etc
[15:32] <daveake> stml http://balloonhelium.co.uk/main/pricing shows the cylinders. How much gas do you need? The "small", "large" and "x-large" ones are Air Products; others are BOC.
[15:32] <stml> apparently they're out of "large", it's only medium and "jumbo" - just spoke to them on the phone
[15:32] <daveake> Situation normal then :(
[15:33] <daveake> I've not used a jumbo but if you do get one, take a friend :D
[15:35] <stml> I think a medium will do for now...
[15:35] <daveake> Problem as I understand it is that Air Products have severely restricted the supply of their cylinders.
[15:35] <NigeyMoby> a medium should be ok ?
[15:35] <NigeyMoby> or an Ap n20
[15:35] <daveake> Medium should be fine unless it's a large balloon with heavy payload
[15:36] <stml> ~1kg payload but potentially many launches
[15:36] <daveake> What size balloon?
[15:36] <stml> trying to decide but it's going to be a number of smaller ones, not a single large one
[15:39] <daveake> Well, medium is 3.6 cu metres and if you had say a 1kg latex balloon then you'd need less than 3 cu metres. With many smaller balloons I dunno
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[15:42] <stml> How big is a 1kg latex balloon then? I'm looking at 3ft latex ones...
[15:44] <NigeyMoby> stml which latex balloons are you looking at?
[15:44] <daveake> Filled somewhere around 1.7m across
[15:44] <stml> http://www.signatureballoons.co.uk/balloons/category-page.aspx?SS_ID=42
[15:45] <stml> this is to be tethered, not fly away. It's for aerial photography, but also look awesome.
[15:45] <stml> hence multiple coloured balloons, not a single one.
[15:45] <daveake> ok
[15:45] <NigeyMoby> Ahh
[15:49] <eroomde> stml: I think they can get to about 8m dia before popping
[15:50] <eroomde> they'll probably be taught looking and round from about 1.5m dia upwards
[15:50] <stml> well, I don't need anything like that - I probably want 3 foot max...
[15:51] <stml> but sounds like I should go for a large size canister to be safe
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[15:53] <daveake> I doubt it. Medium gives you over 3kg of lift, which minus the weight of the balloons needs to still be more than your 1kg payload
[15:54] <daveake> Doubt the balloons weigh anywhere near 2kg :)
[15:54] <daveake> Someone who can still do maths will be along in a minute ...
[15:54] <stml> I know, but probably want to inflate more than once
[15:55] <daveake> Get the big one then, and a friend or medical insurance ;-). They're heavy.
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[15:58] <eroomde> certainly get a bottle trolley
[15:58] <eroomde> they're impossible without
[15:59] <daveake> Yeah, I bought a trolley last time when I was told they only had those jumbo ones. After I got the trolley they changed their minds :D
[15:59] <eroomde> we use 'L' bottles for our launches and they're a 2 man job to get in and out of the boot of an estate car or pickup
[16:01] <daveake> I've never lifted one but I can imagine
[16:05] <nosebleedKT> I have a pigtail which i bought it for use with 2.4ghz
[16:05] <nosebleedKT> can i use it for 144.8mhz? or got a problem?
[16:05] <stml> thanks for all the help guys
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[16:31] <fsphil> nosebleedKT, long as it's 50 ohms
[16:31] <hibby> *impedance is 50 ohms on that frequency
[16:32] <fsphil> ^^++
[16:33] <hibby> im in engineering mode, lol
[16:35] <fsphil> so the impedance is different for different frequencies?
[16:35] <fsphil> I use the same cable for HF and UHF
[16:37] <gonzo_> the impeadence will be pretty much constant across all freqs
[16:37] <jonsowman> the characteristic impedance of the cable is a material property
[16:38] <gonzo_> as long as the stuff at both ends is 50ohm too, all is rosey in the garden
[16:39] <BrainDamage> the characteristic impedance is not constant for non TEM waveguides, as in the phase velocity changes with freq
[16:39] <fsphil> it took me a long time to understand impedance. I'm still pretty fuzzy on it
[16:39] <BrainDamage> but any bi-conductor system counts as tem or quasi-tem
[16:42] <hibby> fsphil: impedance is related to frequency response
[16:42] <BrainDamage> impedance is not characteristic impedance
[16:42] <BrainDamage> the characteristic impedance is the ratio between electric & magnetic energy in a transmission line
[16:43] <hibby> however our length of cables have (for all intents and practical purposes) 0 capacitance and / or inductance, so the impedance should be exactly what the DC resistance is
[16:43] <BrainDamage> yeah, if your circuit is electrically short compared to the wavelenght, you don't care about all this
[16:45] <gonzo_> the only reason that people get away with using the vile PL259
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[16:49] <fsphil> tis a pretty rubbishy plug/socket
[16:49] <hibby> that's what she said
[16:50] <jonsowman> :\
[17:01] <nosebleedKT> 50omhs
[17:01] <nosebleedKT> it is
[17:08] <hibby> nosebleedKT: 50ohms? How'd you check it?
[17:08] <nosebleedKT> magic
[17:08] <nosebleedKT> :P
[17:09] Nick change: SamSilver -> SamSilver_
[17:11] <Laurenceb> eroomde: ping
[17:12] <fsphil> don't upset the RF spirits nosebleedKT
[17:13] <nosebleedKT> fsphil
[17:13] <nosebleedKT> http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/654944_460s.jpg
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[18:07] <hibby> the narwhal bacons at midnight.
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[18:14] <stilldavid> hibby: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=rTAxKSDHpx4#t=128s
[18:16] <hibby> so, schottky diode!
[18:17] <nosebleedKT> i want this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_direction_finder
[18:20] <stilldavid> nosebleedKT: I have one of these: http://www.com-spec.com/rocket/index.html
[18:20] <stilldavid> it works surprisingly well, actually
[18:21] <nosebleedKT> hi stilldavid
[18:21] <nosebleedKT> so they sell those things
[18:21] <stilldavid> hello :)
[18:23] <stilldavid> I've got the PR-100 sitting right behind me here
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[18:23] <nosebleedKT> i need for APRS
[18:23] <nosebleedKT> 144.8
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[19:37] Lunar_Lander (~Lunar_Lan@p548826DA.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[19:37] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:38] andrew_apex (~chatzilla@188-220-169-100.zone11.bethere.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[19:42] <nosebleedKT> hello
[19:42] <Lunar_Lander> how is the life?
[19:42] <nosebleedKT> Lunar_Lander: tomorrow i go get the stuff from postal office
[19:42] <Lunar_Lander> from or to?
[19:42] <nosebleedKT> i guess until friday your things will be on the way
[19:42] <nosebleedKT> get!
[19:43] <nosebleedKT> they didnt send it home so i need to go get it
[19:43] <nosebleedKT> the orders from seeedstufio
[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:45] <nosebleedKT> so i guess on friday i will go to the post office to give them your parcel
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[19:46] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> did they only leave one of those papers like "You can fetch your parcel from..."?
[19:55] <nosebleedKT> y
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:56] <nosebleedKT> because i was sleeping and didt hear the bell
[19:56] <nosebleedKT> and no one was here
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:00] <Laurenceb_> eroomde: ping
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[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> hello jcoxon
[20:34] <jcoxon> hey
[20:36] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
[20:36] <jcoxon> not bad thanks
[20:36] <jcoxon> you?
[20:36] <Lunar_Lander> same here, thanks
[20:37] <Lunar_Lander> today I sent the circuit diagrams for my additional sensors to the professor that I know
[20:37] <Lunar_Lander> he wants to look at them and maybe he can make PCBs for these
[20:38] <Lunar_Lander> and what is your ballooning doing?
[20:38] <jcoxon> nothing here
[20:39] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[20:39] <Lunar_Lander> sad to hear that
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[20:49] <Lunar_Lander> hey Jessica_Lily
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[20:58] <Jessica_Lily> hey Lunar_Lander
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[21:27] Nick change: remy_ -> remyzero
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[21:33] <fsphil-laptop> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=a85403c125d4d3e3309e44115d521a07219825d6
[21:34] <fsphil-laptop> potentially very interesting flight
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[21:36] <fsphil-laptop> suspect it'll be very windy at the launch site though
[21:37] <daveake> Looks like it might be!
[21:38] <daveake> So you're aiming for another Yorkshire tree landing? ;)
[21:38] <LazyLeopard> ;)
[21:38] <daveake> At least this time of the year there's less foilage for it to get snagged in
[21:39] <fsphil-laptop> thinking of it -- a simpler payload this time though, no canon camera
[21:40] <LazyLeopard> Already one of those somewhere on the moors?
[21:40] <fsphil-laptop> yea
[21:40] <fsphil-laptop> some sheep farm in the dales I think
[21:41] <daveake> Well, HAB in reverse is BAH
[21:42] <NigeyS> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=534a5f0c375ff5c150239da140590eded7b7f3d0
[21:42] <NigeyS> oh my
[21:44] <fsphil-laptop> nice!
[21:46] <SpeedEvil> Directly on a tree.
[21:46] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[21:46] <fsphil-laptop> naturally
[21:46] <NigeyS> lol oh joy
[21:47] <Lunar_Lander> hi SpeedEvil NigeyS fsphil-laptop
[21:47] Action: SpeedEvil waves.
[21:47] <fsphil-laptop> yo
[21:47] <NigeyS> hi lunar
[21:47] <Lunar_Lander> how are you all?
[21:48] <daveake> Someone down under should aim for a landing here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Tree_Island_(Queensland)
[21:49] <NigeyS> all good
[21:49] <Lunar_Lander> xD!
[21:51] <remyzero> how do you go for insurance say, the parachute doesnt deploy and the payload lands on someones roof causing damage?
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[21:52] <hibby> "I'm sorry"?
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> the most difficult question of all
[21:52] <remyzero> ah
[21:52] <remyzero> say its just minor damage like landing on the tv antenna
[21:52] <hibby> we managed to get some from the university after we started ours
[21:52] <fsphil-laptop> "Yikes... I wonder who launched that?!" *shocked expression*
[21:52] <remyzero> do you leave your contact details in the payload?
[21:53] <hibby> but then, we've got experimental insurance anyway
[21:53] <daveake> We need labels that destroy themselves on a hard impact :)
[21:53] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[21:53] <remyzero> lol
[21:53] <remyzero> experimental insurance
[21:53] <hibby> daveake: a small lcd screen...
[21:54] <fsphil-laptop> or one of those eink displays
[21:54] <hibby> remyzero: indeed. my employer pays some insurance company a shitload of money so if anything goes wrong in my lab, the financial impact won't be to long
[21:54] <LazyLeopard> NigeyS: That one's getting close to MSSL
[21:56] <remyzero> forgive me, we recently did job safety analysis courses for air-stream and we are all now so safety concious it's quite depressing
[21:56] <NigeyS> mssl?
[21:56] <remyzero> fire ze mssls!
[21:57] <fsphil-laptop> "Cardiff accidentally starts 3rd World War"
[21:57] <hibby> s/to long/to bad
[21:57] <NigeyS> lol
[21:59] <remyzero> how about having the payload sucked into a commercial jet engine, thats got to be a tricky one as well
[21:59] <fsphil-laptop> I imagine the jet engine would win that one, without even noticing
[21:59] <daveake> Besides, the address label won't survive :)
[21:59] <remyzero> lol good point
[22:00] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[22:00] <fsphil-laptop> just listening to the weather. severe gales this weekend .. woo, I'm so launching
[22:00] <remyzero> who has the record for the lowest/highest balloon burst
[22:00] <daveake> :D
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> highest is in California
[22:01] <fsphil-laptop> 41.5km isn't it?
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[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> hi Paradoxial
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:01] <remyzero> do you have trouble launching during duck hunting season
[22:01] <remyzero> scratch that, im just being silly now
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> well, the EOSS group of Colorado had something like that
[22:02] <daveake> fsphil-laptop I'm working oop north this weekend but might be able to set up to help track
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[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> people should wear high-visibility vests and be aware of people with guns
[22:02] <Paradoxial> Hi Lunar
[22:02] <fsphil-laptop> oooh that'd be great daveak
[22:02] <fsphil-laptop> +e
[22:02] <fsphil-laptop> it'll be 300 baud, with images
[22:02] <fsphil-laptop> if I do lanuch
[22:02] <fsphil-laptop> launch
[22:02] <daveake> no problem fsphil-lap
[22:02] <daveake> +top
[22:02] <remyzero> lol
[22:03] <fsphil-laptop> I'm debating using either the 1000g or 600g balloon
[22:03] <fsphil-laptop> a 600g should make it
[22:03] <remyzero> is that 600g when inflated?
[22:04] <daveake> Are you hoping for it to get retrieved?
[22:04] <fsphil-laptop> it's the weight of the latex remyzero
[22:04] <remyzero> ah thanks
[22:04] <daveake> Less than zero when inflated :D
[22:04] <fsphil-laptop> well if it lands near someone daveake
[22:04] <remyzero> im like, if its filed with helium how the hell do you weigh it!
[22:04] <fsphil-laptop> I don't want to have someone go out of their way to get it
[22:04] <remyzero> *filled
[22:05] <fsphil-laptop> you can measure the lift easily enough
[22:05] <daveake> remyzero That's the "neck lift", measured by getting it to just lift something
[22:06] <Laurenceb_> neck lift can be fatal
[22:06] <remyzero> how much can a 1000g inflated lift?
[22:06] <fsphil-laptop> quite a lot
[22:06] <Laurenceb_> just ask saddam hussein
[22:06] <remyzero> dum tish
[22:06] <SpeedEvil> remyzero: It's related to how much wood a woodchuck can chuck.
[22:06] <remyzero> i know the answer to that
[22:06] <remyzero> none, woodchucks dont chuck wood unless they are ill
[22:07] <fsphil-laptop> "up to the legal limit" is probably the correct answer
[22:07] <daveake> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=how+much+can+a+woodchuck+chuck%3F
[22:07] <Darkside> 4kg in australia for the balloon class we're in
[22:07] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[22:07] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:07] <LazyLeopard> NigeyS: Mullard Space Science Lab. ;)
[22:07] <fsphil-laptop> I've never heard the chuck thing before
[22:07] <remyzero> so it can almost life you then Darkside
[22:07] <remyzero> *lift
[22:07] <Darkside> remyzero: doubt that
[22:08] <Darkside> :P
[22:08] <remyzero> you must weigh what, at least 8kg
[22:08] <Darkside> 70kg
[22:08] <remyzero> lol
[22:08] <remyzero> close enough!
[22:08] <fsphil-laptop> gravity is weaker in australia
[22:08] <remyzero> kangaroos
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander> btw remyzero I get you there
[22:09] <remyzero> you see what i did there?
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander> one day my professor talked about helium coming out the magnet systems
[22:09] <fsphil-laptop> which reminds me: http://xkcd.com/852/
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander> and then he turned to me
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> "by the way, did you have an insurance for your balloon?"
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> and I thought "ohhh s***!"
[22:10] <remyzero> lol
[22:10] <remyzero> professors get some sad enjoyment out of tormenting their students
[22:10] <fsphil-laptop> you haven't flew yet Lunar_Lander :p
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> yeah I know
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> that is one of the roadblocks
[22:10] <fsphil-laptop> hurry up, I want to track it :)
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander> I have to think about that again
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander> and show him the predictor and stuff
[22:11] <remyzero> lol @ pole vaulters
[22:12] <remyzero> what is the usual power supply in a payload?
[22:13] <daveake> Energizer Lithium AA cells
[22:13] <remyzero> ah nice and light
[22:13] <daveake> Specced to -40
[22:13] <remyzero> wait, not AAA?
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> can we use an Energizer Li E-Block?
[22:13] <remyzero> Li isnt good on impact
[22:14] <daveake> I used AAA last time
[22:14] <Darkside> remyzero: they land slowly
[22:14] <daveake> But mostly people use AAs
[22:14] <Lunar_Lander> what was dangerous again?
[22:14] <remyzero> Darkside: you would hope so
[22:14] <Darkside> parachute and all
[22:14] <Lunar_Lander> LiPoly or LiIon?
[22:14] <Darkside> both
[22:14] <Lunar_Lander> my friend told me of a model helicopter with LiIon I think
[22:14] <Darkside> lipo is more fragile though
[22:14] <Lunar_Lander> it started to burn in flight
[22:14] <Lunar_Lander> nothing was left
[22:14] <Darkside> you can *bend* a lipo battery quite easilt
[22:14] <remyzero> Lunar_Lander: i fly electric helis
[22:14] <daveake> That's cos heli fliers crash them all the time
[22:15] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:15] <remyzero> you are supposed to check the battery for damage after every landing
[22:15] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:15] <daveake> (speaks a fellow flier. Er, crasher)
[22:15] <remyzero> if you dont, your heli burns up
[22:15] <Lunar_Lander> true
[22:16] <remyzero> normal charging routine for the Li batterys for helis is, in a steel container with sand in the base
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> btw they once made a scale model of Bell 433 or so
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:16] <remyzero> nice
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> with turbine and kerosene system
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> IIRC, 20k Euros
[22:16] <remyzero> yeah
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> but it looked awesome
[22:17] <remyzero> im too poor for gas powered
[22:18] <SpeedEvil> Darkside: They're sort of like handwarmers. Bend them, they go click, and heat up.
[22:18] <Darkside> but lipos explode
[22:18] <remyzero> so to lions
[22:18] <remyzero> *do
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> btw when we talk about danger
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/physics/8-01-physics-i-classical-mechanics-fall-1999/
[22:19] <Darkside> ahh thats normal
[22:19] <Darkside> i've done that with a pendulum before
[22:19] <remyzero> mad physics professors?
[22:20] <Laurenceb_> sane physics professors?
[22:20] <remyzero> no such thing
[22:20] <Laurenceb_> exactly
[22:20] <remyzero> mine wore sandels with socks
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> Walter Lewin does that too
[22:20] <remyzero> the other one had eyes that pointed in different directions
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> lol
[22:21] <remyzero> both good phyics teachers
[22:21] <remyzero> man what is up with my typing today
[22:22] <remyzero> ah im wearing a watch
[22:22] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[22:22] Action: remyzero removes
[22:24] <Lunar_Lander> Walter has another cool thing he can do
[22:24] <Lunar_Lander> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raurl4s0pjU
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[23:32] Nick change: plate -> camo
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[23:54] <NigeyS> hmph who stole my coffee :(
[00:00] --- Wed Nov 23 2011