highaltitude.log.20111121

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[08:46] <Upu> morning
[08:46] <remyzero> arvo
[08:47] <Upu> afternoon already ?
[08:47] <Upu> almost evening there isn't it ?
[08:48] <remyzero> yep almost dark
[08:52] <Darkside> hey remyzero
[08:52] <Darkside> whatcha doing here?
[08:52] <number10> hows the code going on ublox6 Upu?
[08:52] <Upu> its working sorta
[08:52] <Upu> I'm getting serial timing errors
[08:52] <Upu> going to get an 8Mhz crystal today
[08:53] <Upu> running out of spec for the chip 3.3v @ 16Mhz
[08:53] <remyzero> lol darkside
[08:53] <remyzero> if you were an air-stream member you would know ;-P
[08:53] <Upu> something odd going on as the stand alone code works but when integrated with the "flight code" I'm getting choppy chars
[08:53] <Darkside> remyzero: oh yes
[08:53] <number10> strange
[08:53] <Darkside> rob contacted me first :P
[08:54] <Upu> but the uBlox 6 performance is epic compared to my older chip
[08:54] <Upu> 8 satellites indoors
[08:54] <Darkside> but i'm going to be in tasmania the night of the AGM
[08:54] <Upu> even on the passive antenna, not sure why you'd need an active one
[08:54] <number10> do you have interrupts running in the main flight code - and is there a UART in the AVR or is it bit bashed?
[08:54] <Upu> i'm using software serial
[08:54] <Darkside> Upu: don't do that
[08:54] <Darkside> please
[08:55] <Upu> Have 2
[08:55] <Darkside> why
[08:55] <Upu> I need the UART for programming
[08:55] <Darkside> no you don't
[08:55] <Darkside> don't you have an ISP?
[08:55] <Upu> I do
[08:55] <Upu> but I'm using Arduino
[08:55] <Darkside> then program with that
[08:55] <Darkside> and?
[08:55] <Darkside> arduino can program with an ISP
[08:55] <Darkside> preferences.txt
[08:55] <Darkside> upload.using=avrispmkii
[08:55] <Darkside> or usbtinyisp
[08:55] <Darkside> etc
[08:55] <Darkside> simple
[08:56] <Upu> 1 sec I need that picture of Jesus doing a face palm
[08:56] <Darkside> :P
[08:56] <number10> :)
[08:56] <Darkside> Upu: none of my new boards use the uart to program :P
[08:56] <Darkside> i figure i already have the 6 pins on teh board for the ISP, no sense putting another 5-6 pins on for another programming header
[08:57] <Upu> http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/7/1/3/3/a3185449-26-Facepalm%20jesus-facepalm-facepalm.jpg?d=1271365063
[08:57] <number10> I chose I nice PIC for my controller with 2 UARTS - but wont work with debugger :(
[08:57] <Upu> well that will probably fix the problem then
[08:57] <Upu> also going to get an 8Mhz crystal anyway
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[09:05] <Upu> hmm that seems to error straight away
[09:05] <Upu> I have one of the olimex programmers
[09:06] <Upu> to get it to burn the bootloader I had to edit programmers.txt
[09:06] <Upu> and chance it to avrisp.protocol=stk500v2
[09:06] <Upu> is that what I want in upload.using ?
[09:06] <Upu> no hang on
[09:06] <Darkside> you'd want upload.using=avrisp
[09:06] <Upu> avrisp
[09:06] <Upu> roger
[09:06] <Upu> br
[09:08] <Upu> well shit
[09:08] <Upu> you learn something new every day
[09:08] <Upu> thanks
[09:08] <Darkside> lol
[09:08] <Darkside> be aware that will have just overwritten the bootloader
[09:08] <Upu> rm -rf SoftwareSerial
[09:09] <Darkside> also, anotehr interesting arduino bug - the fuses don't get set when you program via isp
[09:09] <Darkside> you have to upload the bootloader first
[09:09] <Upu> ok
[09:09] <Darkside> then you can program via isp normally - the fuses stay the same
[09:10] <Upu> so once i've done it via ICSP I can't do it via normal Arduino USB ?
[09:10] <Upu> unless I bootloader it again
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[09:11] <Darkside> yep
[09:11] <Darkside> exactly that
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[09:11] <Upu> I'll have to go rewrite the code so debug comes out via software serial now
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[09:13] <number10> out of interest is the arduino platform C++ or C
[09:13] <Darkside> c++
[09:14] <number10> one day O will have to bite the bullet and migrate - but I never did see why embedded stuff needed to be OO
[09:14] <number10> day I
[09:22] <zyp> C++ doesn't have to be OO
[09:23] <zyp> C++ have plenty of other improvements over C to justify it
[09:23] <number10> do you guys use the OO features in your hab stuf
[09:27] <Darkside> yeah
[09:27] <Darkside> some arduino libraries are object based
[09:27] <Darkside> but theres no dynamic instantiation of an object if thats what you mean
[09:28] <Upu> wierd
[09:28] <Upu> still doing timing or something
[09:28] <Upu> ÿGPGGA,092810.00,5345.15046,N,00149.07080,W,1,08,1.26,261.5,M,48.1,M,,*4E
[09:28] <Upu> note the funny char at the start of the GPGGA line
[09:30] <Upu> some lines are working though
[09:30] <Upu> $$AVA,4,09:29:22,53.752547,-1.817888,0,8,-127,-127,-1,G*343F
[09:32] <number10> if that the first frame on power up - or do you get more frames with the front end corrupted - if so need to flush uart buffer on powerp
[09:33] <number10> thats if you already changed you code to use uart :P
[09:34] <Upu> I did
[09:34] <Upu> I'll go get the right crystal
[09:34] <Upu> then I know its not that
[09:34] <Upu> back soon
[09:36] <gonzo_> object progging for embedded controlers?!
[09:37] <gonzo_> I'm only just comfortable with using straight C for them. Gut feeling says you should be using assembler
[09:43] <number10> nothing wrong wit using C - as long as the compiler is efficient. and in areas that are critical you can use inline #asm
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[09:45] <gonzo_> I tend to write C, knowing what assembler will come out the other end.
[09:46] <gonzo_> And on the PICs, I don't trust passing vars on the stack (which they don't have) and I carefully control the depth of fn calls, to fit on the HW stack
[09:47] <gonzo_> had lots of upsets with compilers in the past, which has coloured my view of them
[09:52] <number10> I have not had any bad experiences yet - but then I have not done loads of projects
[09:57] Nick change: plate -> purr
[10:05] <zyp> I tend to write C++ knowing what assembler will come out the other nend
[10:05] <zyp> end*
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[10:07] <zyp> IMO PIC is an awful architecture, at least in terms of compiler friendlyness
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[10:09] <number10> some of the newer architectures have been optimised for C
[10:09] <gonzo_> yep I agree. But it's what I have handy.
[10:10] <gonzo_> That makes sense. I've not looked at the later offerings
[10:10] <gonzo_> just have some dev boards and plenty of 16F876 devices
[10:11] <gonzo_> so tend to use them for everything
[10:11] <gonzo_> (when all you have is a hammer, everything around you looks like nails !)
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[10:25] <fsphil> I've a couple of 16F chips around if you want them? :) I can't see me using them
[10:25] <fsphil> 16F628
[10:25] <Darkside> ok i've done enough pcb design for today...
[10:25] <Darkside> finished up a HF TX shield (well, kind of)
[10:29] <gonzo_> ta phil, but I tend to stick with the 876, as I have everything set up for them.
[10:31] <fsphil> I liked them because the datasheet was simple :)
[10:31] <fsphil> but as much as I liked programming in assembly, I made the switch to avr so I could use C (avr-gcc)
[10:31] <fsphil> there was no good C compiler for PICs on linux then. not sure if there is now
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[10:36] <on4bds> Hi guys
[10:36] <fsphil> hiya on4bds
[10:37] <on4bds> Can anyone recommend a GPS module that will work above COCOM altitude limit, which I can buy in Europe?
[10:37] <fsphil> anything with a ublox5 or ublox6 chip will work (when in airborne mode)
[10:38] <fsphil> There was the FSA03 which used the ublox5, but it's difficult to get now
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[10:38] <on4bds> I know there's some Ublox modules on Sparkfun, but would rather have a supplier closer by (shipping and all)
[10:39] <fsphil> yea, the D2523T is a ublox powered module too
[10:39] <fsphil> although it's really quite expensive
[10:40] <fsphil> the lassen iq is another option
[10:40] <on4bds> The FSA03 looks good, where can one buy it?
[10:41] <fsphil> getting harder, they where discontinued recently
[10:41] <on4bds> Isn't the Lassen IQ a family of chips rather than a specific chip? Are they all equally flexible with regards to COCOM?
[10:41] <fsphil> some places still have some stock though
[10:41] <fsphil> they seem to be on4bds, many people here use the lassens. although they are nowhere near as sensitive as the ublox chips
[10:42] <fsphil> The latest venus modules (with updated firmware) are also suppose to work at altitude
[10:42] <fsphil> but afaik nobody has been brave enough to try them :)
[10:43] <fsphil> oh, the gpsbee
[10:43] <on4bds> Seems like the FSA03 would be the best bet then (also pricewise btw). Know any web shops that could still have stock?
[10:44] <fsphil> forgot about that. it's a ublox5 module
[10:44] <fsphil> the only shop I know with fsa03 stock is: http://www.sequoia.co.uk/shop/product.php?p=807
[10:45] <fsphil> they are great modules, but be wary of the fragile antenna connection
[10:45] <fsphil> it's actually the FSA03-LP they stock, uses the ublox6 chip
[10:47] <fsphil> there's a couple more on the wiki: http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:gps_modules
[10:47] <on4bds> Seems http://www.texim-europe.com/ is a distributor here in Belgium, I'll try to contact them. Their webshop says they have stock.
[10:48] <fsphil> I've used an fsa03 on my last two flights, they worked well - other than not liking any wires near the antenna
[10:49] <on4bds> Sequoia's fun; 1 unit = 40 GBP, 2 units = 25 GBP each :-)
[10:49] <fsphil> guess how many I ordered ;)
[10:49] <fsphil> they did have a thing for about a week where they only had 1 in stock
[10:49] <fsphil> guessing nobody bought it
[10:50] <fsphil> it's the cheapest gps module there is I think
[10:50] <fsphil> unless you build your own
[10:52] <on4bds> :-)
[10:52] <on4bds> Shipping is steep for me though, 20 GBP...
[10:52] <on4bds> Do you use TTL to 3.3V lever shifting circuitry to interface it to a microcontroller?
[10:53] <fsphil> I power all my stuff from 3.3v, keeps it simple
[10:54] <fsphil> but a simple resistor divider would be enough. the avr at least is quite happy with 3.3v logic level even when it's powered with 5v
[10:54] <fsphil> the gps wouldn't accept 5v logic, so the resistor divider drops it to 3.3v
[10:55] <on4bds> I have a 5V micro since I am using a 5V transmitter module for telemetry.
[10:55] <fsphil> hx1 by any chance?
[10:55] <on4bds> Yes, HX1-144.800 for EU APRS
[10:55] <on4bds> Cool little module, has everything on board. Give it 5V and an audio signal and it's happy.
[10:56] <fsphil> they are cool - I've only just got one, still haven't tested it properly yet
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[10:56] <fsphil> we can't use them in from the air in the UK, but I'm hoping to use it if the balloon drifts over to mainland europe
[10:56] <Darkside> on4bds: that module will be fine with 3.3v enable logic
[10:57] <fsphil> or after landing
[10:57] <on4bds> We use it in our rockets - only 300mW give pretty decent range if you put it up high enough :-)
[10:57] <Darkside> on4bds: also feeding a 3.3v pwm signal to it gives almost perfect deviation
[10:58] <on4bds> Darkside: I might give that a go. Should be easy to test with my current circuit and a resistor devider.
[10:58] <on4bds> Thanks for the heads-up
[10:58] <fsphil> the only annoyance I've found with the HX1 so far is powering it from 4x AAs
[10:58] <on4bds> How so?
[10:58] <fsphil> the voltage will drop below 5v pretty quickly
[10:59] <on4bds> Maybe use a 2 cell LiPo pack?
[10:59] <fsphil> lipo batteries don't operate well in the cold
[11:00] <fsphil> I think for our project we're going to use 6x AAs instead
[11:00] <on4bds> D-cells?
[11:01] <fsphil> AA, energizer lithium
[11:01] <fsphil> they don't seem phased by the cold at all, Darkside had a set of 4 running overnight at -20c or something like that
[11:03] <on4bds> Good to know.
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[11:03] <fsphil> lipos would be good if you can keep them above freezing
[11:03] <fsphil> below 0 degrees they stop working pretty quickly
[11:04] <on4bds> You could use somthing similar to a crystal overn, but that would kindof defeat the purpose, using battery power to keep the batteries warm...
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[11:05] <gonzo_> what's the discharge curve like for the energiser batts?
[11:06] <fsphil> the lithium ones keep a steady voltage right until they run out
[11:06] <fsphil> then drop like a stone
[11:07] <fsphil> grrr google and you're stupid long urls
[11:07] <fsphil> http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/l91.pdf
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[11:08] <fsphil> makes it difficult to tell how much capacity you've got left
[11:08] <gonzo_> tried looking at that earlier, locked my browser. Ok no though ta
[11:09] <gonzo_> similar to nicads then
[11:09] <gonzo_> given the headroom my reg needs, that's prob ideal
[11:10] <on4bds> Just thought of something; the HX1 module might be happy with a 3.3V input signal, but wouldn't powering it from 3.3V as opposed to 5V cut the range drastically?
[11:11] <fsphil> still has to be powered from 5v
[11:11] <fsphil> annoyingly :)
[11:12] <SamSilver> [12:57] <Darkside> on4bds: also feeding a 3.3v pwm signal to it gives almost perfect deviation
[11:12] <fsphil> that's the signal input, rather than power
[11:12] <SamSilver> yip
[11:12] <SamSilver> I am with you fsphil
[11:13] <fsphil> I might try it at 3.3v just to see what happens
[11:13] <on4bds> What antennas do you guys use? I was thinking of making a wire J-pole for 2m
[11:13] <on4bds> Would also affect range.
[11:14] <fsphil> quarter wave vertical is popular
[11:14] <Darkside> on4bds: we've flown a floppy diamond whip antenna with a snall ground plane
[11:14] <Darkside> small*
[11:15] <Darkside> this is for APRS i mean
[11:15] <Darkside> diamond have these nice little antennas that are really bendy
[11:15] <Darkside> comet have something similar too
[11:16] <fsphil> ooh they are neat
[11:16] <Darkside> Diamond SRH36
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[11:18] <on4bds> Looks nice. But I'd rather homebrew something as simple as an antenna.
[11:18] <Darkside> yeah make a j pole
[11:18] <Darkside> or a slim jom
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[11:18] <Darkside> jim*
[11:18] <Darkside> 300 ohm ribbon cable slim jims work well
[11:20] <on4bds> That's what I was looked at
[11:20] <Darkside> so you're planing on flying APRS?
[11:21] <on4bds> Yes.
[11:21] <Darkside> good
[11:21] <Darkside> make sure you fly WIDE2-1
[11:21] <Darkside> else the network operators mightn't be too happy with you
[11:21] <on4bds> To avoid too much digipeating? I figured so, the altitude gain should make digipeating overkill.
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[11:22] <Darkside> next flight we're flying no digipeating on the way up, but turning on digipeating as soon as it bursts
[11:22] <Darkside> so it'll digipeat out when it gets near landing
[11:22] <on4bds> That's a good idea. What APRS software/firmware are you using?
[11:23] <on4bds> I'm using a TinyTrak 3 clone loaded with OpenTracker firmware.
[11:23] <Darkside> we're using a modified version of trackuino
[11:23] <on4bds> I have access to the firmware but haven't looked at what compiler it uses yet.
[11:24] <Darkside> hmm i havent got a good pic of the aprs payload
[11:24] <on4bds> Damn you AVR users :-) Arduino seems to be standardizing all micro development to AVR... I should switch away from PIC really...
[11:24] <Darkside> http://rfhead.net/?p=382
[11:24] <Darkside> thats the board i designed
[11:24] <Darkside> the actual payload has a 145.175MHz HX1 on it
[11:26] <on4bds> Looks like some fine work!
[11:26] <eroomde> I was avr before arduino
[11:26] <Darkside> more recent modifications to the trackuino code we've done make it properly send telemetry information
[11:26] <eroomde> fwiw
[11:26] <eroomde> but hey - one has a completely open toolchain, the other doesn't. game overt
[11:27] <Darkside> http://aprs.fi/telemetry/a/VK5ZM-11
[11:27] <Darkside> so every 15 minutes the payload sends out the required packetrs which tell the network how to decode the telemetry
[11:27] <Darkside> and every 30 seconds a position and telemetry packet is sent
[11:28] <Darkside> we check with the network operators before launching... :P
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[11:28] <vk5gr> ping juxta
[11:28] <Darkside> he hasn't been around for a while vk5gr
[11:29] <vk5gr> hello!
[11:29] <vk5gr> darn it
[11:29] <on4bds> I've gotta go guys, that's for the info and it was nice chatting!
[11:29] <vk5gr> wanting to find out what he thought of the horus 18 film
[11:29] <Darkside> no probs on4bds cya
[11:29] <Darkside> vk5gr: the advert?
[11:29] <vk5gr> yup
[11:30] <Darkside> ffs my internet is being annoying
[11:30] <vk5gr> i loaded it up to vimeo and gave Terry the password - can see that he played it tonight
[11:30] <on4bds> cu
[11:30] <Darkside> then again this is congestion period...
[11:30] <Darkside> vk5gr: might be best to ring him
[11:31] <vk5gr> bit late isnt it?
[11:31] <Darkside> he's often awake at ofddd hours
[11:31] <Darkside> i know i am
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[11:32] <Darkside> vk5gr: so how was making an advert?
[11:33] <vk5gr> fine - it's not an add in the traditional sense from what the brief I received was anyway
[11:33] <vk5gr> i have done some similar things occasionally in the past
[11:33] <Darkside> ahh ok
[11:33] <TimZaman> hey lads
[11:34] <vk5gr> evening!
[11:34] <TimZaman> morning rlyt
[11:34] <vk5gr> anyway - gonna pull the plug - it's already 1030 here and i have an early start
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[11:35] <Darkside> vk5gr: mm i have a few things to do at uni tomorrow...
[11:35] <vk5gr> no probs
[11:36] <vk5gr> gnite!
[11:36] <fsphil> morning TimZaman
[11:36] <Darkside> night vk5gr
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[11:36] <TimZaman> hi fsphil
[11:37] <TimZaman> launch on thursday
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[11:38] <fsphil> sweet
[11:39] <fsphil> good prediction?
[11:39] <TimZaman> very
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[11:39] <TimZaman> the sun -not so much- but the rest is sweet
[11:40] <Laurenceb> <Laurenceb> http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/78
[11:40] <Laurenceb> <Laurenceb> Last login: Fri Aug 5 18:11:19 UTC 2011 from dc4-arm-01.cam.broadcom.com on pts/0
[11:40] <Laurenceb> all you need to know
[11:40] <fsphil> git
[11:40] <fsphil> :p
[11:45] <gonzo_> we flew a camera on a rocket over the weekend. Pretty useable resolution and so cheap to be throw away.
[11:45] <gonzo_> ebay 160627799990 in case anyone is interested
[11:46] <gonzo_> ultra light
[11:46] <eroomde> oh well, wroth a try
[11:48] <gonzo_> I'm used to just posting the number, if people see a long number they tend to just poke it in an ebay search
[11:56] <TimZaman> fsphil: so whats new
[11:56] <gonzo_> internal 3.7v 150mah lithium rechargeable. Not the bigest bat, but that could be wired out to the main batts
[11:56] <TimZaman> does habhound have a dedicated map?
[11:57] <Darkside> gonzo_: it'll need to be wired out to the main battery in a balloon payload
[11:57] <Darkside> as the lipo will freezee
[11:57] <Darkside> -e
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[12:02] <gonzo_> yep, have seen comments abouit that on this chan
[12:02] <gonzo_> mine is wired out already
[12:03] <gonzo_> initial tests suggest they will do 45min/GB. Need tob test to see if they will take large SD rams
[12:04] <TimZaman> Darkside: nah the lipo wont freeze
[12:05] <TimZaman> i have flown 5 keychain camera's so far, no problems at all.
[12:07] <gonzo_> freeze or not, I suspect the batt will not last a full flight anyway. And I'm never sure what may happen if it dies part through the file. Poss a corrupt ram and lose all
[12:10] Nick change: AndChat| -> NigeyMoby
[12:11] <juxta> damn, I missed Grant
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[12:17] <fsphil> TimZaman, not yet - downloads on demand
[12:17] <TimZaman> fsphil: windows version?
[12:20] <juxta> hey TimZaman
[12:21] <TimZaman> hi juxta
[12:21] <TimZaman> long see no time
[12:22] <juxta> what's news with you?
[12:23] <TimZaman> launch next week
[12:23] <TimZaman> thursday or friday or both
[12:23] <TimZaman> dual payload launch
[12:23] <juxta> oh nice - what will you be flying?
[12:24] <TimZaman> plexiglass top :)
[12:24] <TimZaman> if i do not receive my 2x1600g hwoyee before then,i've got 2x1000g hwoyee lined up
[12:24] <TimZaman> aiming at 8ms ascent, 25km burst, something like that
[12:25] <TimZaman> you?
[12:25] <TimZaman> did darkside steal your australian fame?
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[12:28] <juxta> haha
[12:28] <fsphil> TimZaman, not worked on it since :) win32 not a priority
[12:28] <juxta> not really - we work together TimZaman :-)
[12:28] <juxta> why such a fast ascent rate by the way?
[12:28] <TimZaman> juxta: ah i guess he makes himself present in the chatbox :)
[12:29] <TimZaman> juxta: quick flight
[12:29] <TimZaman> ye' old in-and-out
[12:29] <juxta> heh
[12:29] <TimZaman> dont feel like driving too much rly
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[12:31] <juxta> totally understand that
[12:31] <fsphil> short range flights would be nice :)
[12:31] <fsphil> we totally need a return-to-base glider system
[12:31] <juxta> we had launch -> landing of ~5km once
[12:31] <juxta> that was nice
[12:34] <TimZaman> wow sweet
[12:34] <TimZaman> fsphil: yeah i guess that's very possible, i've seen gliders doing very impressive stuff
[12:35] <TimZaman> i was also thinking on attaching a quadracopter for slow descent :)
[12:35] <TimZaman> those things are getting cheap
[12:35] Nick change: bigcw -> bcw-AFK
[12:36] <fsphil> they are
[12:37] <fsphil> battery life might be a problem
[12:40] <TimZaman> yeah but thats why i said, only for the last descent
[12:41] <TimZaman> or i could fly a HAB wired.
[12:41] <TimZaman> include a ethernet cable too for that SSH
[12:41] <TimZaman> that'd solve a lot of our problems
[12:41] <TimZaman> fix some in-flight programming errors
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[12:48] Nick change: GW8RAK_ -> GW8RAK
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[12:56] <gonzo_> have to use a lot of repeatres on the way up, ethernet is onlt spec'ed for 70mtrs
[12:57] <NigeyMoby> fiber!!
[13:00] <gonzo_> would have to have lots of HABs along the length to stop it catching ion trees etc on the way
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[13:22] <TimZaman> if i was richard branson i'd do it. every 70m a repeater
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[13:24] <NigeyMoby> thought cat6 was 85m?
[13:26] <remyzero> i thought cat5/6 was 100M
[13:27] <TimZaman> rating schmatings
[13:27] <NigeyMoby> pass, I've seen a few figures for both :/
[13:28] <remyzero> need to get a fluke tester and do some research XD
[13:28] <NigeyMoby> Yush!
[13:28] <NigeyMoby> Tim, u have another launch this week?
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[13:29] <TimZaman> y
[13:29] <NigeyMoby> live cam?
[13:30] <TimZaman> probablyu
[13:30] <TimZaman> 300bd
[13:30] <NigeyMoby> cool
[13:31] <fsphil-laptop> we really need better receivers and moar power :)
[13:31] <gonzo_> fly an RTG
[13:31] <NigeyMoby> fly an 857
[13:31] <NigeyMoby> :p
[13:32] <NigeyMoby> 100watts airbourne, ofcom will love you.
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[13:32] <fsphil-laptop> I was thinking of 25mw :p
[13:33] <GW8RAK> The mains power lead would limit the max altitude NigelMoby
[13:33] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[13:33] <NigeyMoby> dam..lol
[13:33] <fsphil-laptop> it's a heavy rig oto
[13:33] <fsphil-laptop> too
[13:33] <fsphil-laptop> http://www.sstv-handbook.com/
[13:33] <GW8RAK> Leave the microphone behind
[13:33] <fsphil-laptop> nice technical book on sstv
[13:33] <NigeyMoby> 2nd balloon ... lead acid batteries ... win
[13:34] <fsphil-laptop> although listing "needs Windows 2000 or better" as a disadvantage does kind of age it a bit :)
[13:35] <NigeyMoby> win2k was quite pleasant to use.
[13:36] <fsphil-laptop> it wasn't too bad
[13:36] <fsphil-laptop> I didn't get to use it too much
[13:37] <fsphil-laptop> was around that time I switch to linux as my main desktop os
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[13:37] <NigeyMoby> Ahh, was a nice change from win98se
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[13:46] <gonzo_> I've only just moved my last machine off 2000
[13:47] Action: SpeedEvil is still running linux 2.2.
[13:47] <SpeedEvil> (admittedly, it's on a router, that I can't change the firmware on)
[13:47] <SpeedEvil> err
[13:47] <SpeedEvil> 2.4
[13:47] <SpeedEvil> Which I find annoying.
[13:48] Action: SpeedEvil ponders setting up an online GPL enforcement site for the UK.
[13:48] <SpeedEvil> With lists of things to buy that you can return under the distance selling rules as they don't have GPL compliance.
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[14:19] <fsphil> how'd things go yesterday Dan-K2VOL? looked good from here
[14:19] <Dan-K2VOL> hey fsphil, glad you were able to see something!
[14:19] <Dan-K2VOL> it was great to launch a big balloon again
[14:19] <fsphil> well it was very choppy and blurry, but I did see someone running after a balloon at one poitn :)
[14:19] <fsphil> point
[14:19] <Dan-K2VOL> haha
[14:20] <Dan-K2VOL> yes, I definitely shouted at that point something like "don't let this be another alice springs!"
[14:20] <Dan-K2VOL> we hadn't realized just how much weight all that rippled plastic would hold of rainwater
[14:21] <fsphil> yea it was pouring down from the looks of it
[14:21] <Dan-K2VOL> it turned out to be about 10 lbs
[14:21] <Dan-K2VOL> had to reel it back in and get another tank, in all I think we put about 400 cu ft of helium in, when normally we only nee 291
[14:22] <fsphil> ah, that would explain the quite low burst altitude
[14:22] <Dan-K2VOL> 2nd launch attempt went spectacularly well, I told the crew holding the payloads to start running with the wind as soon as the balloon left my hands
[14:23] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah it was quite exciting to see the thing level off and start coming down right as expected
[14:23] <Dan-K2VOL> and we got confirmation from recovery that the inversion cutdown worked!
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[14:24] <Dan-K2VOL> or at least it was inverted, it didn't vent as much gas as I planned, will have to see the video to know why
[14:24] <Dan-K2VOL> lots of video coming back
[14:25] <fsphil> it came down very gently
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[14:26] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah, it had a lot of helium left, considering it had a 12lb payload
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[14:26] <Dan-K2VOL> the homeowner that got landed on said it looked 1/4 full still
[14:27] <Dan-K2VOL> which makes sense
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[14:27] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL: Sounds like the homeowner was very understanding.
[14:28] <Dan-K2VOL> oh yes, they said they heard a clatter on the roof, and went out to see what was the matter :-P
[14:28] <Dan-K2VOL> visions of St. Nick
[14:28] <daveake> :)
[14:30] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL: I cleaned out a lot of spam accounts from our blog today. I don't *think* I deleted anyone legitimate, but you can direct any complaints to me.
[14:30] <Dan-K2VOL> accounts or posts?
[14:30] <Dan-K2VOL> oh I guess you can make follower accounts can't you
[14:30] <Dan-K2VOL> thanks for caretaking that brad
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[14:31] <Dan-K2VOL> it was a pretty rough week getting it all prepped
[14:31] <Zuph> Yeah, and if you want, you can make accounts for commenting, although its not required.
[14:31] <Zuph> Roger that. Sorry I wasn't able to be around more, you picked a bad week for me :-p
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[14:37] <hibby> how was yesterday, guys?
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[14:41] <Zuph> hibby: Looked good from my end, but Dan-K2VOL had a better seat :-p
[14:41] <Dan-K2VOL> hey Hibby
[14:41] <Dan-K2VOL> it was quite a thrill
[14:42] <hibby> yeah?
[14:42] <Dan-K2VOL> even though my iPhone was destroyed in the process :-)
[14:42] <Dan-K2VOL> I mean :-(
[14:42] <hibby> sounds like there's a storyt
[14:43] <Zuph> :(
[14:43] <Dan-K2VOL> quite, we'll write it all up tonight
[14:43] <Zuph> Well, it was almost time to upgrade anyway, right Dan-K2VOL ?
[14:43] <hibby> yeah, there's an S model out now!
[14:43] <Dan-K2VOL> but sadly a lot of the volunteer work that was promised this week didn't show up, and resulted in me and a few people at LVL1 till 4am still working on the sensor system
[14:44] <hibby> nightmare
[14:44] <hibby> addds to the fun of it all though :)
[14:45] <Dan-K2VOL> when I got up the launch morning 2 hours later, I usually set my iPhone in a dock on the toilet to listen to music as I get ready, and am very paranoid and careful around the water with all electronics
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[14:45] <Dan-K2VOL> but the sleep deprivivation also deprived my depth perception
[14:45] <hibby> 'get ready', aye?
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[14:45] <Dan-K2VOL> and I reached out, paused and released my iphone directly into the toilet bowl
[14:46] <eroomde> whoops
[14:46] <x-f> ooh :/
[14:46] <Dan-K2VOL> with a plop it sunk to the bottom
[14:46] <Dan-K2VOL> if we get speedball across the ocean I"ll say it was worth it
[14:47] <Dan-K2VOL> sadly my lack of phone receiver prevented a very dedicated member from making it to launch
[14:47] <hibby> define: worth it timeframe
[14:47] <hibby> ;)
[14:47] <zyp> I've got nothing against the iPhone, but I can't help but joke about «shit usually goes into the toilet» :)
[14:47] <Dan-K2VOL> hehe
[14:47] <Dan-K2VOL> but to the exciting bits
[14:47] <hibby> there's moar?!
[14:48] <Dan-K2VOL> the damn Byonics Microtrack was not being decoded by MultiPSK nor the present TH-D72
[14:48] <Dan-K2VOL> so we waited to launch on that for an hour
[14:49] <Dan-K2VOL> until bill brown finally replicated all the same non-decoding on his personal microtrack and multi-psk!
[14:49] <Dan-K2VOL> at his house
[14:49] <Dan-K2VOL> the microtrack was TXing audio tones at 1100hz and 1700hz instead of 1200/2200
[14:50] <hibby> pita
[14:50] <Dan-K2VOL> piece of crap, but aparently good enough for some igates
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[14:53] <hibby> evidently
[14:53] <Dan-K2VOL> the zero pressure balloon launch instructions were to dump an entire T-Tank into the balloon
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[14:54] <Dan-K2VOL> which we did, but it was only registering 7lbs of lift in a 6mph wind, which was creating a lot of drag, which means it should add force, I think
[14:55] <Dan-K2VOL> I know the balloon is supposed to have about 18lbs of positive lift at launch, and it had 7
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[14:55] <Dan-K2VOL> I thought it might be water, and that it might slough off the water when it stood full up, so we let it go, hanging on to the payload
[14:56] <number10> I was speaking to someone on the phone once - mid conversation heard clonk clonk, glug glug glug, line dead - I guessed where he was speking from
[14:56] <Dan-K2VOL> but the wind picked up more, and it came down low to the groud (a la Alice Springs)
[14:56] <Dan-K2VOL> ha nice number10
[14:56] <number10> it was funney from my end
[14:56] <number10> -e
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[14:57] <Dan-K2VOL> as we were struggling to grapple the wipping spinnaker-sail balloon, I just decided to fill more to be safe and add helium until I couldn't hold it down any longer
[14:58] <Dan-K2VOL> once we had both the top probe tube and bottom vent in hand again it really calmed itself down
[14:58] <Dan-K2VOL> and we filled another few hundred cu ft until the ropes were cutting through my hands
[14:59] <eroomde> not cool when that happens
[14:59] <Dan-K2VOL> and I shouted to the payload crew to start running like hell with the payloads as soon as the balloon was released
[14:59] <Dan-K2VOL> well, it wasn't too bad, they were .5cm ropes of the load ring bridle
[14:59] <eroomde> playing with tethered 3kg balloons with about 20kg of lift really gave me the willies. they were cutting through our glaves
[14:59] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah, you know what I mean!
[15:00] <eroomde> those things don't like sustaining transverse wind loads and they really let you know about it
[15:00] <Dan-K2VOL> it was a beautiful launch the 2nd time, just like you see the pros, the balloon rose nicely up and didn't dip down, nor drag any payloads
[15:00] <Dan-K2VOL> and lifted them right out of the runners hands
[15:00] <Dan-K2VOL> thankfully the wind was right down the taxiway we were on
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[15:06] <Zuph> Good article on Elon Musk + SpaceX: http://www.airspacemag.com/space-exploration/Visionary-Launchers-Employees.html
[15:07] <russss> yes, very good article
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[15:12] <hibby> Dan-K2VOL: nncie oen
[15:12] <hibby> **nice one
[15:14] <Dan-K2VOL> which the toilet or the flight :-P
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[15:17] <Dan-K2VOL> hiby
[15:17] <Dan-K2VOL> hibby
[15:21] <SpeedEvil> http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150961536795131&set=a.10150961536385131.767490.353851465130&type=1&theater hot mating pictures.
[15:22] <hibby> oh god yes
[15:22] <hibby> I love a good hard spacex
[15:23] <Dan-K2VOL> haha
[15:25] <SpeedEvil> https://twitter.com/#!/SpaceXer
[15:26] <Dan-K2VOL> balloon pics after landing, will post detailed info later tonight: http://www.jeffbrownphotography.com/web/balloon/
[15:26] <SpeedEvil> :)
[15:27] <SpeedEvil> I don't see how you fitted the cat into the payload. There doesn't seem to be room.
[15:27] <Dan-K2VOL> haha, oh it has claws you know, it's not likely to let go
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[17:54] <stilldavid> Dan-K2VOL: I tracked down those files, and thusly forgot to bring my laptop to work :(
[17:56] <Dan-K2VOL> heh no problem, we've got our hands full with current missions, but that data will be helpful whenever you get a chance
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[19:01] Nick change: ben_apex_ -> benoxley
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[19:08] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[19:13] <Blackover> hi
[19:13] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
[19:14] <Blackover> going to the hell
[19:14] <nosebleedKT_> hello
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[19:15] <Blackover> hi
[19:15] <nosebleedKT_> when i post something on facebook, i want it to be posted to my blogspot. is that possible?
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[19:16] <Lunar_Lander> Blackover: how comes?
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[19:19] <Blackover> there is nothing stable, fundamental in Russia. No clear future and it not depends on me
[19:19] <nosebleedKT_> sdarova moi druk !
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[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:20] <Blackover> so i have to break the law
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[19:21] <nosebleedKT_> me believes Lunar_Lander afraids to break the law
[19:21] Action: nosebleedKT_ believes Lunar_Lander afraids to break the law
[19:21] <nosebleedKT_> :)
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[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:21] <Blackover> it's about ability to make RC-control or launching the balloon
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:24] <Blackover> the worst - i am useless - i cant shout at legislator and politicians, "they are on own wave"
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> yea that is not so good
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> :(
[19:26] <Blackover> Lunar_Lander, what do you know about Russia? Have u heard about "Skolkovo"?
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> I heard that the parliament is not really good when it comes to votes, I heard that many representatives don't come to the meetings and then other people run around and hit their voting buttons
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[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> do you mean the "Russian Silicon Valley"?
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[19:28] <Blackover> ye
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> just reading about it
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> they want to make a new city
[19:28] <Blackover> No
[19:29] <Lunar_Lander> ah, yea read wrong
[19:29] <Blackover> It's national idea to make our own Silicon Valley
[19:29] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:29] <Lunar_Lander> xD the guy said "We want to have 2, 3, 4 nobel prize winners sitting there
[19:29] <Blackover> BTW, On 4th of December there will be elections in our parlament.
[19:30] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:30] <Lunar_Lander> Putin comes back I heard
[19:30] <fsphil> not sure he ever really left
[19:31] <jcoxon> evening all
[19:31] <Lunar_Lander> hi jcoxon
[19:31] <Blackover> presedent elections will be in next year (in March?)
[19:31] <Lunar_Lander> yeah fsphil he just changed the seat
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[19:58] <ZenithBot> geekshad1w
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[20:00] <nosebleedKT_> putin is the best
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[20:14] <danielsaul> zb
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[20:23] <danielsaul> !shutup
[20:23] <ZenithBot> I'll shut up... :o
[20:24] <ZenithBot> IRC SeeBorg commands:
[20:24] <ZenithBot> !help: Show this command list
[20:24] <ZenithBot> !shutup: As the name says
[20:24] <ZenithBot> !wakeup: As the name says
[20:24] <ZenithBot> !join: Join channel
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[20:24] <ZenithBot> !quit: As the name implies
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[20:24] <ZenithBot> !learning: Enable/disable bot's learning ability, should be enabled
[20:24] <ZenithBot> !stealth: CTCP version stealth
[20:24] <ZenithBot> Core SeeBorg commands:
[20:24] <danielsaul> whooops
[20:24] <danielsaul> !part
[20:24] <danielsaul> !part #highaltitude
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[20:48] <Lunar_Lander> hi jonsowman
[20:48] <jonsowman> hi Lunar_Lander
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
[20:48] <jonsowman> fine thanks
[20:48] <jonsowman> you?
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander> me too, thanks
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander> today I bought all the parts for the cloud charge meter :)
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[20:51] <jonsowman> cool
[20:52] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[20:52] <Lunar_Lander> I hope I can get it to work
[20:54] <jonsowman> yea
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> there is a 1 microfarad capacitor
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> a big block
[20:56] <Lunar_Lander> and a megaohm resistor
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> but the photocell gamma counter has a 10 megaohm one
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> an ion counter project from the scientific american (in August 1999) even needs a 10 gigaohm one
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[22:01] <cuddykid> that sounds very interesting Lunar_Lander :)
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> thanks :)
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[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> I'll ask a professor that I know if the workshop at his university of applied sciences could make PCBs
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[22:06] <Lunar_Lander> cuddykid: there are ideas for an electric field sensor, that cloud charge sensor, a magnetometer based turbulence sensor and an ion counter
[22:07] <cuddykid> niceee!
[22:07] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[22:07] <Lunar_Lander> also Laurenceb's dust collector
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[22:08] <cuddykid> Something I really want to do is create a super lightweight glider and see how long it will stay up for - that's my project for the next few years
[22:09] <cuddykid> however - apparently the CAA don't like UAVs flying about :(
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[22:09] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander> damn :(
[22:11] <gonzo_> is not that what ecery rc model is?
[22:11] <gonzo_> v
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[22:20] Nick change: plate -> purr
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[22:42] <Lunar_Lander> hi remyzero
[22:42] <Lunar_Lander> cuddykid: here is the circuit
[22:42] <Lunar_Lander> http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/207/bildschirmfotohh.png/
[22:43] <russss> cuddykid: well, you could always fly in international waters
[22:44] <russss> although not very many exciting things to see out there
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[22:45] <remyzero> hi
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[22:48] <Lunar_Lander> hi juxta
[22:48] <Lunar_Lander> cuddykid: does the link work?
[22:51] <juxta> morning Lunar_Lander
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[23:01] <natrium42> Dan-K2VOL: there?
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[23:21] <Lunar_Lander> good night
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[23:57] <cuddykid> Lunar_Lander: yep :)
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[00:00] --- Tue Nov 22 2011