highaltitude.log.20111118

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[00:12] <Zuph> Well, this is stupid.
[00:13] <Zuph> KiCad has a bug which causes the schematic to pixelize with certain xorg drivers.
[00:13] <Zuph> The only workaround is to run KiCad in a VM.
[00:14] <Randomskk> :|
[00:14] <Randomskk> that's... really annoying
[00:16] <SpeedEvil> My X.org drivers have a bug on my chipset.
[00:16] <SpeedEvil> They occasionally lose pixmaps.
[00:16] <Randomskk> where do the pixmaps go?
[00:17] <SpeedEvil> This means that sometimes my firefox buttons - for example, will be corrupt or blank.
[00:17] <Zuph> Same place socks go to.
[00:17] <SpeedEvil> Or certain pics always show up with 'static' on them.
[00:17] <BrainDamage> also toasters
[00:17] <Zuph> I mean, I guess running kicad in a VM isn't *as* big a deal now that I have a laptop that can run a vm, but still
[00:18] <BrainDamage> I'd espect a bug in wxGTK more than kicad itself
[00:18] <SpeedEvil> https://twitter.com/#!/JimmyWahl/status/137237730747891712
[00:18] <SpeedEvil> Sort-of-ontopic
[00:18] <BrainDamage> I have a very nasty bug in a prog I made using wx that comes from the version packaged in ubuntu
[00:19] <BrainDamage> downgrading fixes it
[00:19] <Zuph> BrainDamage: Roger the wx bug.
[00:20] <Zuph> Other than that, and the broken wifi, I like the new laptop :-p
[00:20] <BrainDamage> Zuph: in the case I wasn't clear, downgrading fixes the bug in my program
[00:20] <BrainDamage> not sure about kicad :p
[00:20] <BrainDamage> but it's worth a shot
[00:20] <Zuph> Nope, not in kicad
[00:21] <Zuph> If I could change to an old-ass version of xserver-xorg-video-intel, then I'd be good
[00:21] <Zuph> Then I couldn't do DRI, though.
[00:21] <SpeedEvil> I need to revert to an old kernel I suspect.
[00:22] <SpeedEvil> As my wifi powersave doesn't work under this one.
[00:22] <SpeedEvil> Annoyingly, some ass-hat pulled it entirely from the sources as it was unreliable for some.
[00:22] <SpeedEvil> So I'd have to forward-port it.
[00:23] <Zuph> yuck
[00:23] <Zuph> To be clear, the wireless isn't broken because of linux
[00:23] <Zuph> They shipped me a laptop with a broken antenna
[00:23] <SpeedEvil> Ah
[00:23] <Zuph> Snapped off right at the mini-pcie card
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[00:27] <SpeedEvil> Quality.
[00:28] <Zuph> I bought it from the outlet, so I was kind of expecting something in the bottom quartile of quality control.
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[00:54] Action: SpeedEvil is impressed by his cheap crap android tablet so far.
[00:54] <SpeedEvil> Apart from the comedy speakers.
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[00:56] <SpeedEvil> http://www.amazon.com/Android-Tablet-Best-capacitive-enclosure/dp/B005HSCJ72
[00:57] <BrainDamage> have you rooted it yet?
[00:58] <SpeedEvil> It was supplied pre-rooted by my brother.
[00:58] <BrainDamage> ah, nice
[00:58] <SpeedEvil> I haven't actually done anything 'clever' with it so far.
[00:59] <SpeedEvil> But Angry Birds works, and google with voice search is really handy in the kitchen.
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[01:02] <BrainDamage> as in, voice search for recipes?
[01:02] <SpeedEvil> That sort of thing, yes.
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[01:03] <SpeedEvil> Or calories in olives. Or temperature to cook pork to.
[01:03] <SpeedEvil> Or ...
[01:04] <BrainDamage> yeah, or knowing the escape velocity on a watermellon's surface
[01:05] <BrainDamage> ( not mocking )
[01:06] <Randomskk> quite slow I'd have thought
[01:07] <SpeedEvil> It's proportional to the square root of the radius isn't it?
[01:07] <SpeedEvil> For constant density.
[01:07] <SpeedEvil> Or just the radius I guess.
[01:07] <SpeedEvil> Thinking of the moon with R=1/6 e, and G=1/6 e
[01:17] <hibby> morning all
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[04:52] Nick change: plate -> congo
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[08:00] <UpuWork> morning
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[08:59] <fsphil> already
[08:59] <fsphil> sheesh :)
[09:03] <Upu> indeed
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[09:13] <NigelMoby> hmm tracking link for my handheld is useless
[09:14] <fsphil> probably coming from china
[09:15] <NigelMoby> Recorded Signed For" items are only tracked after the item has been delivered.
[09:16] <NigelMoby> Nah it was UK supplier
[09:17] <NigelMoby> exactly what use is tracking, after its been delivered... :¦
[09:17] <fsphil> maybe for insurance
[09:18] <fsphil> you can't say it wasn't delivered
[09:18] <Upu> whats the tracking number ?
[09:19] <NigelMoby> CZ833122542GB
[09:19] <Upu> CZ ?
[09:19] <NigelMoby> *shrugs*
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[09:20] <GW8RAK> Recorded signed for, is not tracked, only signed for. Only Special Deliveries are tracked
[09:20] <NigelMoby> I've had weirder from royal fail
[09:21] <NigelMoby> would explain why special delivery is 9 quid!
[09:21] <Upu> CZ is China Southern Cargo
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[09:21] <Upu> but no idea where you track
[09:22] <NigelMoby> can't be China, its a UK product...lol
[09:23] <Upu> in that case what Graham said
[09:24] <NigelMoby> guess ill Jus wait in in case it turns up today.
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[10:37] <nosebleedKT> hi anyone there?
[10:37] <nosebleedKT> I got that binary: 00001000
[10:37] daveake (5bb771b0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.183.113.176) joined #highaltitude.
[10:37] <nosebleedKT> and i want to clear that '1' so it gets '0'
[10:38] <fsphil> just that one?
[10:38] <nosebleedKT> y
[10:38] <fsphil> leaving all the others as they where?
[10:38] <nosebleedKT> the others should stay untouched
[10:38] <fsphil> 00001000 &= 11110111
[10:39] <nosebleedKT> :)
[10:39] <fsphil> & everything but the one you want
[10:39] <nosebleedKT> magic
[10:39] <nosebleedKT> :)
[10:39] <fsphil> or & ~1000 might work too
[10:40] <nosebleedKT> so its: bootHealth &= 11110111;
[10:40] <nosebleedKT> where boothealth = 00001000
[10:41] <fsphil> after that boothealth will = 0
[10:41] <nosebleedKT> y
[10:42] <nosebleedKT> but usually boothealth is 0xFF
[10:42] <nosebleedKT> all bits set cause all 8 modules are online
[10:42] <nosebleedKT> and when the camera is at standby mode i want to clear its bit
[10:42] <nosebleedKT> because im sending this info in the telemetry
[10:44] <nosebleedKT> thx phil
[10:44] <nosebleedKT> im going to test for the first time the payload out
[10:44] <nosebleedKT> battery life & int/ext temperature conditions
[10:45] <daveake> Any launches this weekend?
[10:45] <nosebleedKT> to verify that my box can keep things safe inside
[10:45] <fsphil> non here :(
[10:45] <fsphil> not this weekend anyway
[10:45] <daveake> I thought you'd be keen to launch now you have that magical notam ;)
[10:46] <fsphil> trying to avoid a splashdown :)
[10:46] <daveake> I need to get busy making a payload or two.
[10:46] <daveake> Ah yes, don't want a splashdown. Not without a boat on call anyway
[10:47] <fsphil> there will certainly be one on or before the 11th December
[10:47] <fsphil> regardless of prediction :)
[10:47] <daveake> :D
[10:48] <daveake> I've applied for 3rd/4th and the following 2 weekends
[10:48] <daveake> I'll get a camera payload ready for that, and Buzznik ready probably for a Cambs launch
[10:49] <nosebleedKT> accidentaly i removed the sdcard while the board was in power and now stupid things happen
[10:51] <fsphil> you're going to be busy
[10:51] <fsphil> nosebleedKT, I think the stupid thing happened first :)
[10:51] <nosebleedKT> yeah
[10:51] <fsphil> got a backup?
[10:52] <nosebleedKT> i dont need it
[10:52] <fsphil> the file system is probably just corrupt
[10:52] <fsphil> reformat it
[10:52] <nosebleedKT> it was just saving pictures
[10:52] <nosebleedKT> yes im already reformatting
[10:52] <gonzo_> morning
[10:52] <nosebleedKT> still
[10:52] <gonzo_> we are flying a small sd ram cam on a rocket tomorrow
[10:53] <nosebleedKT> got problem
[10:53] <gonzo_> I had the same concerns abouit corruption
[10:53] <gonzo_> if the cam was smashed before finishing writing the file
[11:03] <nosebleedKT> ok everything works
[11:06] <nosebleedKT> because i dont have altitude changes now, i set it to shutdown the camera when avr voltage < 3000mv
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[11:11] <nosebleedKT> ping fsphil
[11:14] <nosebleedKT> fsphil: now i want to compare
[11:14] <nosebleedKT> if the bootHealth has that bit set
[11:16] <fsphil> & again
[11:16] <nosebleedKT> if(bootHealth &= 11110111) ?
[11:16] <fsphil> without the equals yea
[11:16] <nosebleedKT> if(bootHealth & 11110111) ?
[11:16] <fsphil> and the opposite bits
[11:16] <fsphil> if(bootHealth & 1000) ...
[11:17] <nosebleedKT> if(bootHealth & 00001000) ?
[11:17] <nosebleedKT> yeah
[11:17] <fsphil> yea
[11:17] <nosebleedKT> r u sure?
[11:18] <fsphil> yep
[11:18] <fsphil> but test it
[11:18] <fsphil> be sure yourself :)
[11:18] <nosebleedKT> :)
[11:19] <gonzo_> will that not be seen as a big decimal number, rather than a bit field?
[11:19] <nosebleedKT> if(bootHealth & 0b00001000)
[11:19] <nosebleedKT> you do that 0b and its taken as binary
[11:19] <fsphil> yea, I'm just pseudoing
[11:19] <nosebleedKT> haha
[11:19] <nosebleedKT> pseuti
[11:19] <nosebleedKT> = lier
[11:19] <nosebleedKT> :)
[11:19] <fsphil> lol
[11:20] <fsphil> that too ;)
[11:20] <nosebleedKT> its comes from ¨•¥”Ÿœ‘™
[11:20] <nosebleedKT> PSEYDOMAI
[11:21] <nosebleedKT> which means 'I lie'
[11:24] <nosebleedKT> fsphil i think it does not work
[11:24] <gonzo_> I prefer to use hex, as I can easilly see bit paterns in it
[11:24] <fsphil> you practice magic?
[11:24] <nosebleedKT> fsphil: y :)
[11:25] <nosebleedKT> i just want to check that bit
[11:25] <fsphil> & is what you want, it should definitely work
[11:25] <nosebleedKT> look what im doing
[11:25] <nosebleedKT> on bootup if camera is ok i do: bootHealth |= 0b00001000;
[11:26] <nosebleedKT> then if avr.vcc<3000mv bootHealth &= 11110111;
[11:27] <nosebleedKT> and then to check if the camera is on/off
[11:27] <nosebleedKT> if(bootHealth & 0b00001000)
[11:27] <fsphil> you know, I'm not sure C supports binary literals
[11:27] <nosebleedKT> that 0b?
[11:28] <gonzo_> I've never used them in c
[11:28] <nosebleedKT> bootHealth |= 0b00001000 works ok
[11:28] <gonzo_> the 0b..... is in the comments in my (inherited) code, but there is certainly no actual code use
[11:29] <fsphil> try it in hexadecimal nosebleedKT
[11:29] <nosebleedKT> but how to extract that bin from he?
[11:29] <nosebleedKT> hex*
[11:29] <gonzo_> some compilers may support them, but not sure if it's in std C
[11:29] <nosebleedKT> bit*
[11:29] <fsphil> 0b seems to be a non-standard extension
[11:30] <gonzo_> 0x80 is easy enough to visualise
[11:30] <fsphil> or for setting just one bit (1 << 4) (sets bit 4) is handy
[11:30] <gonzo_> and ~0x80 for the inverted mask
[11:31] <fsphil> (bit 4 where the first bit is bit 0)
[11:31] <fsphil> (so really the 5th bit)
[11:31] <gonzo_> another pseudo code?
[11:32] <fsphil> nah, I really use (1 << n) in code
[11:33] <fsphil> depending on the context, it just reads better than hex
[11:33] <nosebleedKT> now i switch on the board and nothing is powered !
[11:33] <nosebleedKT> wtf is going on
[11:33] <fsphil> uh oh -- the bits have escaped
[11:33] <gonzo_> hopefully the compiler will optimiose 1<<4 out to a value. But I tend to be thinking assembler when coding c. So feel happier using a definite value
[11:34] <nosebleedKT> i hope i didnt burn anything
[11:35] <zyp> «hopefully»
[11:36] <zyp> if your compiler doesn't do that even with optimizations turned off, you should really use another compiler
[11:37] <zyp> expressions containing only literals are always reduced to a single literal
[11:39] <nosebleedKT> well i managed to upload the program to the avr but still nothing is
[11:39] <nosebleedKT> working
[11:39] <nosebleedKT> ok
[11:39] <nosebleedKT> alive
[11:40] <nosebleedKT> NearSpace Flight System Revision: Rev G28.10.11
[11:40] <nosebleedKT> AFSK modulator ready
[11:40] <nosebleedKT> microSD ready
[11:40] <nosebleedKT> Camera ready
[11:40] <nosebleedKT> Temperature Sensor ready
[11:40] <nosebleedKT> Pressure sensor ready
[11:40] <nosebleedKT> Humidity sensor ready
[11:40] <nosebleedKT> APRS module ready
[11:40] <nosebleedKT> here
[11:40] <nosebleedKT> System voltage (mV): 3181
[11:40] <nosebleedKT> Temperature (C): 19
[11:40] <nosebleedKT> Temperature (C): 20
[11:40] Action: nosebleedKT does uffff
[11:40] <zyp> use a pastebin
[11:40] <nosebleedKT> yeah sory
[11:41] <nosebleedKT> but i was stressed to think of nice things
[11:43] <nosebleedKT> fsphil: it worked
[11:43] <nosebleedKT> with bootHealth &= 0b11110111;
[11:43] <nosebleedKT> had to put everywhere 0b
[11:44] <nosebleedKT> in the binary operations
[11:46] <fsphil> makes sense
[11:47] <NigelMoby> I'm a 34b tbh
[11:47] <NigelMoby> :p
[11:48] <fsphil> it seems an odd omission, not having binary literals in C
[11:48] <gonzo_> if you are a 34b, time to cut down on the pies!!
[11:48] <gonzo_> hehe
[11:49] <NigelMoby> lol
[11:49] <NigelMoby> good point :)
[11:50] <gonzo_> yep, I asked some of the other eng's here, and they had never used bit patterns in C, always hex
[11:50] <fsphil> -3.14159?
[11:50] <fsphil> nor me, but now that I know they are not there I want to ;)
[11:50] <NigelMoby> Phil stole pi!!
[11:50] <gonzo_> 3.1415926535897926, then I think it's 38 summut
[11:51] <gonzo_> (me bieing pedantic, rather than amusing)
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[11:51] <fsphil> haha, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15791236
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[11:53] <NigelMoby> Omg
[11:53] <NigelMoby> that's huge...
[11:53] <fsphil> it needs to be repeated at another site though
[11:54] <NigelMoby> tevatron ... oh wait, they shut it down...
[11:54] <fsphil> gits
[11:54] <gonzo_> the media is desparate to report some huge new finding, but I recon most scientists are expecting it to be an exoperimental prob
[11:54] <fsphil> I suspect so too
[11:55] <NigelMoby> prolly, isn't there a Japanese group doing it to?
[11:55] <gonzo_> you can't put a price/value on pure science
[11:55] <fsphil> the big sticking point are the neutrinos detected from supernova -- they arrive at the same time as the optical flash
[11:55] <gonzo_> which is a prob for bean counters
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[12:01] <fsphil> mmm.. beans
[12:01] <NigelMoby> Heinz?
[12:02] <fsphil> is a bowl of beans called a Kiloheinz?
[12:02] <congo> a mess
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[12:03] <gonzo_> killer-bicycles>
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[12:20] <nosebleedKT> fsphil: real data at last
[12:20] <nosebleedKT> http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=SW2HYX-11&limit=5&view=normal
[12:21] <nosebleedKT> for now 10C degrees difference in temps
[12:32] <fsphil> telemetry!
[12:33] <fsphil> what's APZIKA?
[12:34] <SpeedEvil> On a related matter.
[12:34] <SpeedEvil> Just signed up for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernova_Early_Warning_System
[12:34] <SpeedEvil> Just because.
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[13:03] <Laurenceb> in time for 2012
[13:03] <Laurenceb> of course you could just use a calendar
[13:05] <Laurenceb> http://arxiv.org/abs/1109.4897v2
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[13:11] <Laurenceb> looks very thorough now
[13:14] <Laurenceb> up to 10 sigma
[13:15] <Laurenceb> wait.. they did total systematic error in quadrature
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[13:43] Nick change: plate -> purr
[13:47] <ms7821> SpeedEvil: ooh interesting
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[14:16] <Laurenceb> silabs Si2185 looks interesting
[14:16] <Laurenceb> wonde rif it could be hacked to extract baseband
[14:16] <Laurenceb> if hacked DVB-T modulation for data
[14:17] <Laurenceb> *or
[14:34] <kristianpaul> IP over DVB will be sweet
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[15:19] <NigeyS> ping Laurenceb
[15:19] <NigeyS> http://vimeo.com/29777656 something you might like
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[15:55] Nick change: SamSilver -> SamSilver_
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[16:08] <nosebleedKT> cool, battery life tests: 4hrs and still voltage didnt drop
[16:09] <Dan-K2VOL> nosebleedKT
[16:09] <Dan-K2VOL> is there a load on the batt?
[16:09] <nosebleedKT> what do u mean load/
[16:10] <Dan-K2VOL> can you describe your test?
[16:11] <mattltm> Second test confirms "faster than speed of light
[16:11] <mattltm> test"
[16:11] <mattltm> http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2011/11/18/was-einstein-wrong-speed-of-light_n_1101014.html?ref=uk
[16:12] <nosebleedKT> i power my flight system. gps, ttl camera, radio 100mw, 4 sensors, microSD, atmega644p. Broadcasting telemetry every 30s and taking pics every 3min
[16:12] <Dan-K2VOL> well that's a big test
[16:12] <Dan-K2VOL> (the faster than light :-P)
[16:13] <Dan-K2VOL> ahh ok, the load would be all the things using power
[16:13] <Dan-K2VOL> what's your battery
[16:13] <nosebleedKT> energizer lithium AA
[16:13] <nosebleedKT> x3 to get 4.5v
[16:14] <nosebleedKT> Dan-K2VOL: http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/301353_316437105037007_259791880701530_1439918_734649948_n.jpg
[16:16] <Dan-K2VOL> cool
[16:17] <Dan-K2VOL> nice design, make sure you glue or strap the modules down before flight :-)
[16:21] <nosebleedKT> yeah
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[16:36] <Dan-K2VOL> nosebleedKT what's your processor
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[16:37] <nosebleedKT> atmega644p
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[16:42] <Dan-K2VOL> cool
[16:42] <Dan-K2VOL> doing it as arduino or C
[16:47] <nosebleedKT> i code in arduino IDE but upload it manually with avrdude
[16:47] <nosebleedKT> i dont know C and im noob in electronics
[16:48] <BrainDamage> actually, arduino's "language" is c/c++, with some added functions / layers
[16:48] <BrainDamage> oh, and arduino ide uses avrdude itself
[16:48] <Zuph> Crayon++
[16:49] <fsphil> hehe
[16:49] <fsphil> Dan-K2VOL, fun and games tonight?
[16:50] <Dan-K2VOL> fsphil oh you bet, you know the night-before-launch mania I'm sure
[16:50] <Dan-K2VOL> we'll stream the Go-no-go chat
[16:50] <Dan-K2VOL> test out our systems
[16:50] <Zuph> catch stuff on fire.
[16:52] <Dan-K2VOL> "payload on fire&" "Roger, payload is engulfed"
[16:53] <NigeyS> lol
[16:57] <fsphil> haha
[16:58] <gonzo_> will bring back memories of when we used to monitor shuttle comms
[16:58] <gonzo_> listening to the 'big loop' on inmarsat
[16:59] <Dan-K2VOL> :-) yes, we're definitely having fun, this short flight won't have a mission control setup, so the comms will be a little more brief, but we will do the callouts
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[17:14] <kristianpaul> 5
[17:15] <fsphil-laptop> 4?
[17:15] <Dan-K2VOL> perhaps 4.5
[17:18] <fsphil-laptop> there's some uncertainty
[17:19] <SpeedEvil> pi!
[17:19] <NigeyS> pir2
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[18:33] <nosebleedKT> its funny, 6hrs and still voltage is normal.
[18:34] <nosebleedKT> those lithiums dont care
[18:35] <Dan-K2VOL> oh crap
[18:35] <Dan-K2VOL> you must have gotten the perpetual motion generator cells
[18:35] <Dan-K2VOL> :-P
[18:35] <Dan-K2VOL> they are awesome batteries
[18:38] <nosebleedKT> and a greek linux magazine wants me to write an article about HABing and my project
[18:38] <nosebleedKT> but there is not linux involved in my project!
[18:39] <nosebleedKT> 657 transmissions in 6hrs
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[18:40] <fsphil-laptop> hamnav
[18:40] <fsphil-laptop> wrong channel :p
[18:40] <nosebleedKT> :p
[18:40] <fsphil-laptop> (talking about amateur radio folks getting directions over radio, instead of using gps)
[18:41] <eroomde> hamnav is dire
[18:41] <nosebleedKT> you also get altitude, vertical and horizontal speeds ?
[18:41] <nosebleedKT> :P
[18:41] <fsphil-laptop> "See that house there to the left?" "Yea!" "Ignore it"
[18:41] <eroomde> when conversation about piles is exhausted, what better than to argue about the best route between fartingham and drearysford?
[18:43] <Zuph> Better than prostate talk.
[18:43] <Zuph> VHF gets a lot of gun chatter here.
[18:43] <fsphil-laptop> the talk on the CB band here (when it does happen, rare now) is almost 100% about how little talk there is on the CB bands
[18:44] <eroomde> fsphil-laptop: ask them what it was like in their day
[18:44] <fsphil-laptop> that would mean talking to them
[18:45] <eroomde> you don't have to give you call right?
[18:45] <fsphil-laptop> oh it's not that, I don't understand what they're saying half time
[18:45] <eroomde> just throw in that nugget and listen to them all fall over each other with anecdotes
[18:45] <fsphil-laptop> strong accent
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[18:45] <nosebleedKT> 40.6480,22.9444,000161,313,000,+000,07,31,+13,+07,53,1008,1843,FF,0666,SLAROS
[18:45] <nosebleedKT> evol 666 !
[18:46] <fsphil-laptop> 667 is 1 more evil
[18:46] <nosebleedKT> punk
[18:46] <nosebleedKT> :P
[18:46] <fsphil-laptop> 666.6666666... the number of the irrational beast
[18:47] <eroomde> tested my freq counter today. works nicely
[18:47] <eroomde> gets to about 520MHz
[18:47] <SpeedEvil> :)
[18:47] Action: nosebleedKT believes fsphil is a UK anarchist
[18:47] <fsphil-laptop> fsrotten
[18:48] <jcoxon> evening all
[18:49] <fsphil-laptop> urg, doggie doing the "staring at me long enough until I break" thing again
[18:49] <fsphil-laptop> hiya jcoxon
[18:49] <SpeedEvil> Stare at it back, harder.
[18:49] <jcoxon> fsphil-laptop, went to icmp yesterday
[18:49] <nosebleedKT> lol
[18:49] <SpeedEvil> Or every time it stares, give it a chilie pepper.
[18:49] <nosebleedKT> use the jack norris stare
[18:50] <nosebleedKT> he aint stare you again
[18:50] <fsphil-laptop> jcoxon, cool! what you get up to?
[18:50] <jcoxon> worked on their code for their buoy
[18:50] <jcoxon> statbuoy is pretty big
[18:50] <jcoxon> going to work well
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[19:24] <nosebleedKT> will the satellite number be of any use in the telemetry string during flight?
[19:25] <Dan-K2VOL> no
[19:25] <Dan-K2VOL> but PDOP is very useful
[19:25] <nosebleedKT> i need to short my telemetry string
[19:26] <Dan-K2VOL> what is it
[19:26] <fsphil-laptop> Dan-K2VOL, would you add or remove anything from this? http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:apx
[19:26] <Dan-K2VOL> zachjacobs are you around
[19:26] <nosebleedKT> Dan-K2VOL: http://aprs.fi/?c=status&call=SW2HYX-11&limit=5
[19:27] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm fsphil-laptop
[19:29] <Dan-K2VOL> NosebleedKT why do you need to shorten
[19:29] <nosebleedKT> isnt it big?
[19:31] <Dan-K2VOL> consider what does the length affect?
[19:35] <Dan-K2VOL> nosebleedKT unless it's killing your battery to transmit that long, or causing your decoder to not work, you're pretty much fine
[19:35] <Dan-K2VOL> fsphil-laptop
[19:36] <Dan-K2VOL> I would add the telemetry version ID number to it
[19:36] <Dan-K2VOL> that way you can have a definition file on the server for various versions of the protocol, and all people using different versions will still work
[19:37] <fsphil-laptop> good idea
[19:37] <Dan-K2VOL> I'd start that as the first byte
[19:37] <Dan-K2VOL> perhaps two bytes, in case people start customising the protocol
[19:38] <Dan-K2VOL> but one's probably fine
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[19:39] <NigeyS> <Dan-K2VOL> but i also prefer the name blip to apx
[19:39] <NigeyS> see fsphil-laptop :p
[19:39] <fsphil-laptop> hey wait a sec
[19:39] <Dan-K2VOL> We use a channel on-off bitmap leading our telemetry from Speedball, which will tell you what channels are currently transmitting. That way it can save power not sending things that are unimportant. Mainly useful for longer flights
[19:40] <Dan-K2VOL> I'd save that to be included in a specific future version
[19:40] <nosebleedKT> ok, with this life expectancy i can place the balloon in orbit for a day
[19:40] <nosebleedKT> :)
[19:40] <fsphil-laptop> my idea was to have different packets for sets of data ... this one for location, another for sensors
[19:40] <Dan-K2VOL> ohh ok
[19:41] <fsphil-laptop> though I've no idea what the other formats would look like
[19:41] <fsphil-laptop> I'd like each one to be a fixed length - it's a bit easier to do error correction
[19:42] <fsphil-laptop> on a fixed length bit of data
[19:42] <Dan-K2VOL> well, we do have notes on our binary format, take with a grain of salt - http://wiki.whitestarballoon.com/doku.php?id=telemetry:satellite:v1
[19:42] <fsphil-laptop> as you can make assumptions about the content, a kind of deep-search
[19:42] <Dan-K2VOL> sure
[19:44] <Dan-K2VOL> however for the position report, I'd really add heading and speed, and replace sats visible with PDOP
[19:44] <Dan-K2VOL> just my thoughts though
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[19:44] <fsphil-laptop> like the idea of a bitmask
[19:45] <fsphil-laptop> PDOP is just an integer value?
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[19:49] <Dan-K2VOL> I think it's a decimal
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[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> so what is balloning doing?
[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[19:55] <eroomde> laying out a pcb
[19:55] <fsphil-laptop> just laying
[19:55] <eroomde> having a happy night in
[19:56] <eroomde> london tomorrow. sister, ex, friend (three separate engagements, not all one person) so I am certainly not going out tonight
[19:57] <Dan-K2VOL> also fsphil vertical speed in meters per minute is a value that I find much more useful than the server-calculated version, but that may be something for another packet
[19:57] <eroomde> stilldavid: ping
[19:57] <Dan-K2VOL> oh does that work
[19:57] <Dan-K2VOL> zachjacobs: ping
[19:57] <eroomde> i love this exclusive access to sparkfun it. it's like being a christian and having a tame angel in your house
[19:58] <Dan-K2VOL> hahaha
[19:58] <Dan-K2VOL> yes
[19:58] <fsphil-laptop> thanks Dan-K2VOL, all good ideas
[19:58] <fsphil-laptop> I normally leave out speed and heading but can see how that would be useful
[19:59] <Dan-K2VOL> np, take what you like, let the rest go out the back
[19:59] <fsphil-laptop> it's dark out there
[19:59] <fsphil-laptop> and mucky
[19:59] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm, give em a candle
[19:59] <Lunar_Lander> XD eroomde
[20:00] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah fsphil-laptop, for ICAO position reporting to ATC you need to provide the speed and heading
[20:01] <Dan-K2VOL> I expect to see a flotilla of superpressure flights once we finish the superpressure tutorials!
[20:01] <Dan-K2VOL> :-P
[20:03] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:04] <fsphil-laptop> totally!
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> Dan-K2VOL, and then we'll circumnavigate the globe!
[20:06] <fsphil-laptop> No reason why a balloon couldn't be made to stay up there for a long time
[20:06] <fsphil-laptop> it's been done before
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> true
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> I only say GHOST
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> and Vincent Lally
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:07] <eroomde> ?
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> you don't know that?
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_horizontal_sounding_technique
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> "On September 29, 1968 a 10-foot (3-meter) GHOST balloon at an altitude of approximately 52,000 feet (16,000 meters) completed a full 365 days in flight, becoming the first balloon to fly for a full year.[1] This record-breaking balloon, launched from Christchurch, New Zealand by the U.S. National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR), continued to fly for an additional 76 days, completing 35 circumnavigations of the Earth. The long
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> est flight of the program was 744 days, or just over two years. The balloons could not be flown in the Northern Hemisphere because the Soviet Union would not permit overflights at the time."
[20:09] <stilldavid> hiya eroomde
[20:11] <Dan-K2VOL> :-)
[20:11] <Dan-K2VOL> our new mascot for white star, which should roll out this weekend is a robot named Lally
[20:11] <stilldavid> I still have those lally papers kickin' around a hard drive somewhere...
[20:11] <Dan-K2VOL> dangling off a balloon with one hand :-)
[20:12] <Dan-K2VOL> love to see those, even as raw pics, could set up a dropbox xfer
[20:13] <stilldavid> definitely& actually they might be on my laptop. one sec.
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> cool Dan-K2VOL !
[20:17] <fsphil-laptop> lally?
[20:18] <stilldavid> vincent lally. legend at NCAR
[20:18] <fsphil-laptop> ah
[20:18] <eroomde> stilldavid: soory it's ok
[20:18] <eroomde> forgot my sf passwd
[20:19] <eroomde> but remembered it now
[20:19] <stilldavid> eroomde: I can give you the hash and salt if you want :)
[20:19] <fsphil-laptop> haha
[20:20] <fsphil-laptop> might get it... eventually
[20:21] <Dan-K2VOL> stilldavid, could you pass the pepper please?
[20:21] <stilldavid> cryptography needs more pepper.
[20:22] <eroomde> pepper and hash
[20:22] <fsphil-laptop> brown sauce
[20:22] <fsphil-laptop> makes everything better
[20:23] <eroomde> mustard for me
[20:23] <Dan-K2VOL> what's the altitude limit on GPSes, is that 65,000 or 60,000 of the top of anyone's head
[20:23] <eroomde> 60,000
[20:23] <Dan-K2VOL> thx
[20:24] <stilldavid> heh, just realized my first password for my yahoo account back in the day was my dog's name.
[20:24] <stilldavid> pepper
[20:24] <stilldavid> /funny in my head
[20:25] <Upu> anyone experience with sending commands to uBLOX chips ?
[20:25] <eroomde> yes
[20:25] <eroomde> well hang on
[20:25] <eroomde> 2009
[20:25] <Upu> I see the config nav mode on the wiki
[20:25] <eroomde> memory not up to it
[20:25] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:falcom_fsa03
[20:25] <Upu> well you may not need memory its just me understanding it
[20:25] <Upu> take the first CONFIG NAV MODE (Airborne <1g)
[20:26] <Upu> I get the B5 62 06 24 bit, header then id
[20:26] <Upu> thats in the documentation
[20:26] <Upu> then there is 24 00 FF FF which is a mask ? then 06 (nav mode) 03 (auto 3d mode)
[20:27] <Upu> bit confused because 24 00 FF FF should be 2 bytes and its 4
[20:27] <Dan-K2VOL> InReach is going high altitude tomorrow!
[20:28] <eroomde> don't recall i'm afriad
[20:28] <Upu> no problems
[20:29] <Upu> commands seem to have extra data in I'll go sift through the data sheets more
[20:29] <Dan-K2VOL> here's the delorme inreach public map interface, it's my personal map share link, so please don't post on web pages:
[20:29] <Dan-K2VOL> http://share.delorme.com/?MapId=1f60ef2dfa9c48cc8b83bc8c09b7c298
[20:30] <Dan-K2VOL> It's flying on zachjacobs flight http://ssl.engineering.uky.edu/missions/near-space/hamster-3d/
[20:33] <Lunar_Lander> cool
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[21:29] <fsphil-laptop> glad I called of the launch this weekend, predictions are still wubbish: http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=b9b95626140931bcd9afb3c48e25e6cafd92d45d
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:31] <fsphil-laptop> oooh
[21:31] <fsphil-laptop> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=66f275f53930695ba641774b322807951dd2c0da
[21:31] <fsphil-laptop> (Friday)
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[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> awesome!
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[21:36] <SpeedEvil> Carry on on the same line for a bit, and you hit cambridge.
[21:36] <fsphil-laptop> if I did launch that, it would be with the 1600g one
[21:37] <fsphil-laptop> predictions this far ahead are almost always wrong though :)
[21:37] <fsphil-laptop> but it would be nice
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[21:40] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[22:00] <nosebleedKT> EPIC: 40.6480,22.9445,000160,318,000,+000,09,31,+14,+07,53,1009,2159,FF,1001,SLAROS
[22:00] <nosebleedKT> 1001 transmissions 10hrs of working and voltage still normal
[22:01] <fsphil-laptop> I predict it'll run for 16 hours
[22:01] <nosebleedKT> lol
[22:02] <nosebleedKT> my flight system is designed for orbital situations :P
[22:03] <fsphil-laptop> with careful programming you can get a payload operating for nearly a week on 4 aa's
[22:03] <nosebleedKT> impossible for me where i use a camera too
[22:03] <fsphil-laptop> yea
[22:03] <fsphil-laptop> camera is your biggest load
[22:03] <nosebleedKT> maybe ill put the 300mw radio
[22:03] <nosebleedKT> now i have the 100mw
[22:04] <nosebleedKT> i need some heat to be produced also
[22:04] <nosebleedKT> int temp is +14C and ext temp is +7C
[22:04] <SpeedEvil> Thermite.
[22:04] <nosebleedKT> of course i havent done a serious heat shielding
[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> XD SpeedEvil
[22:05] <nosebleedKT> Lunar_Lander: you need to be proud to have my flight system
[22:05] <nosebleedKT> :P
[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> kalimera nosebleedKT
[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> yeah :)
[22:05] <nosebleedKT> lol
[22:05] <nosebleedKT> goodemorgen
[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[22:06] <nosebleedKT> Lunar_Lander: tell your state to stop screwing arround with money because you still own us money from WW2
[22:06] <nosebleedKT> :P
[22:06] <Lunar_Lander> XD!
[22:07] <nosebleedKT> germany and UK own us money cause they bombed the parthenon
[22:07] <fsphil-laptop> I just realised what übermorgen means
[22:08] <nosebleedKT> lool
[22:09] <nosebleedKT> goodenachten
[22:09] <nosebleedKT> tanken, bitten
[22:09] <nosebleedKT> and my lovely one: ichlibitich which i love to say to beautiful german girls
[22:09] <nosebleedKT> :P
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[22:12] <nosebleedKT> Lunar_Lander: you need to meet me german girls for the flight system
[22:12] <nosebleedKT> which radio do you have btw/
[22:12] <nosebleedKT> HX1 TXH1 ?
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> currently I have NTX2
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> I have to get one of the other ones
[22:13] <nosebleedKT> lol
[22:13] <nosebleedKT> you need TX1 or TXH1 or HX1
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:13] <nosebleedKT> 10,100,300mw
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> someone in england needs to buy one for me
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> hey jcoxon
[22:14] <nosebleedKT> i suggest 100 and 300mw
[22:14] <nosebleedKT> with this battery life i might use the 300mw
[22:14] <nosebleedKT> http://fun256.com/photos/1574.jpg
[22:15] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:15] <nosebleedKT> i think the smd components draw less current
[22:15] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:16] <nosebleedKT> with previous non-smd board battery run out in 4-5hrs
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:18] <nosebleedKT> i will sent you the system with latest software on it
[22:19] <nosebleedKT> so you will just plug all the stuff and power on
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander> good
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander> thanks :)
[22:19] <nosebleedKT> you're welcome :)
[22:21] <nosebleedKT> omg
[22:21] <nosebleedKT> just found a bug
[22:21] <nosebleedKT> m644p.uart1_en(false);
[22:21] <nosebleedKT> camera.standby();
[22:21] <nosebleedKT> first i shutdown uart1
[22:21] <nosebleedKT> then i send command to close the cam!
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> damn
[22:21] <nosebleedKT> lol
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:21] <nosebleedKT> and that code is running now :P
[22:22] <nosebleedKT> but this part will run only once when voltage reported by avr is <3000mw
[22:24] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:25] <nosebleedKT> is there any online flight-system-life-expectancy record to break ?
[22:26] <nosebleedKT> :P
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> SNOX-IV maybe
[22:27] <jcoxon> my atlas 2 was still transmitting up to 7 days
[22:27] <jcoxon> when it was stuck in a tree
[22:27] <nosebleedKT> ooooooh
[22:27] <nosebleedKT> NICE
[22:27] <nosebleedKT> lithiums AA ?
[22:28] <jcoxon> yeah
[22:28] <jcoxon> but it was in lots of powersaving
[22:29] <nosebleedKT> we should make a UKHAS record thing where we write the our flight systems what life they can achieve
[22:29] <jcoxon> often people don't know
[22:29] <jcoxon> as they recover it
[22:29] <nosebleedKT> sorry for my bad english, im getting off little by little
[22:29] <Upu> Well I did over 72 hours of testing with Ava (lol) on the same set of batteries
[22:29] <nosebleedKT> they can record during home tests
[22:29] <Upu> still using them to test the rev2 version of the hardware
[22:30] <nosebleedKT> omg
[22:30] <Upu> btw coming from a gen 3 (?) GPS, the Inventek to the gen 5 one (uBlox 6) the difference is astonishing
[22:30] <Upu> very little jitter compared to the ISM 300
[22:31] <jcoxon> sirfIII are about 5 years old
[22:31] <Upu> yeah it shows
[22:31] <nosebleedKT> jcoxon: Im doing lots of powersaving too
[22:31] <Upu> my location used to jump all over
[22:31] <Upu> lots of powers saving modes on it too
[22:32] <nosebleedKT> jcoxon: i enable/disable of submodules of the avr during the 32s of sleep between the transmissions
[22:32] <jcoxon> nosebleedKT, APRS?
[22:32] <nosebleedKT> yes
[22:32] <jcoxon> cool
[22:32] <jcoxon> yeah it suits powersaving
[22:32] <nosebleedKT> you was transmitting all the time?
[22:32] <jcoxon> well when using rtty 10mW i recommend that people do
[22:33] <jcoxon> but the way aprs is setup you should have gaps
[22:33] <nosebleedKT> oh and just 10mw!
[22:33] <nosebleedKT> im on 100mw and also using a ttl-cam
[22:34] <nosebleedKT> jcoxon: http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/301353_316437105037007_259791880701530_1439918_734649948_n.jpg
[22:38] <nosebleedKT> ok need to go. im tired.
[22:38] <nosebleedKT> gnite all europe and non-europe
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[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> so
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> farnell only has NTX2
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> and Radiometrix still only ships to the UK
[22:40] <Lunar_Lander> someone could help me with the TX1H or HX1 ordering?
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[22:51] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil-laptop, ?
[22:51] <Lunar_Lander> Upu?
[23:02] <Lunar_Lander> jcoxon, ?
[23:07] <fsphil-laptop> have you asked them? (radiometrix)
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[23:08] <Lunar_Lander> not yet
[23:08] <Lunar_Lander> I did write them though last year
[23:08] <Lunar_Lander> no answer
[23:08] <fsphil-laptop> try again, they're normally good at replying
[23:12] <Lunar_Lander> OK
[23:13] <fsphil-laptop> what's the top speed for a payload been?
[23:17] <Lunar_Lander> I think we saw 220 kph at WB8ELK once
[23:25] <fsphil-laptop> I'm trying to select a reasonable speed range for a field, need an upper limit that will not be reached but that isn't too big
[23:26] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:26] <fsphil-laptop> thinking of 0 - 100m/s at the moment
[23:26] <fsphil-laptop> that's 360km/h
[23:26] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:27] <fsphil-laptop> still possible something could go faster
[23:27] <fsphil-laptop> just very unlikely ;)
[23:28] <fsphil-laptop> I can't even use c now, as it seems that's not even a top speed anymore
[23:29] <Lunar_Lander> lol
[23:29] <Lunar_Lander> well
[23:29] <Lunar_Lander> that was because they missed out the GPS timing delay
[23:30] <Lunar_Lander> which made up the missing 64 nanoseconds
[23:31] <fsphil-laptop> have you told them?
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[23:35] <Lunar_Lander> I think they found out by themselves
[23:35] <Lunar_Lander> because I read it
[23:35] <Lunar_Lander> and didn't find that myself
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[23:37] <fsphil-laptop> Lunar_Lander, http://blogs.nature.com/news/2011/11/neutrino_experiment_affirms_fa.html
[23:38] <Lunar_Lander> hm
[23:38] <Lunar_Lander> OK
[23:38] <Lunar_Lander> well this is still an in progress thing
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[00:00] --- Sat Nov 19 2011