highaltitude.log.20111115

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[00:27] <SpeedEvil> http://news.slashdot.org/story/11/11/14/2221240/china-building-gigantic-structures-in-the-desert - almost youtubish quality on some of the comments.
[00:30] <Wil5on> heh, dry dock for the 2012 arks
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[00:43] <BrainDamage> everytime I read youtube comments, I feel dumber afterwards
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[03:51] <griffonbot> @LVL1WhiteStar: Balloon holding air after 24 hours! No more holes! Envelope is flight ready!!!!!!! Valve install next. #ukhas #arhab http://t.co/YQkFa4Kn [http://twitter.com/LVL1WhiteStar/status/136290109493493760]
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[07:17] <Upu> morning
[07:21] <Darkside> hey Upu
[07:22] <Upu> evening Darkside
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[07:45] <NigelMoby> Rar
[07:51] <NigelMoby> ping darkside
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[08:20] <earthshine> o/
[08:26] <NigelMoby> morning mike
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[08:31] <earthshine> Mornin'
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[08:44] <griffonbot> Received email: John Graham-Cumming "Re: [UKHAS] My first CHDK script"
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[09:10] <gonzo_> morning world
[09:11] <gonzo_> a successfull evenings coding. Have my pic churning out RTTY test strings
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[10:39] <griffonbot> Received email: "[UKHAS] APRS"
[10:46] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[10:46] <griffonbot> Received email: Jon Sowman "Re: [UKHAS] APRS"
[10:50] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] APRS"
[11:02] <griffonbot> Received email: Solar Balloonman "[UKHAS] Space parachutes."
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[11:37] <gonzo_> who's our fldigi expert on this chan?
[11:38] <Darkside> anyone who's ever chased a balloon
[11:38] <Darkside> what's the problem?
[11:48] <gonzo_> hehe, know the feeling
[11:48] <gonzo_> looking to code uo the rtty strings and not sure how flexible the parser is
[11:49] <gonzo_> i'm using 5unit rtty, so letters and numbers shifts in there
[11:50] <gonzo_> not sure if fldigi will expect the sum to be done of the raw tty, including shifts, or the final output ascii values
[11:50] <eroomde> in terms of extracting ascii characters from beeps, that's an fldigi problems. in terms of knowing what to do with those ascii characters, there's a habhub problem. The former problem you can test locally easily enough i'd have thought?
[11:50] <gonzo_> also there is no * chr in 5unit code
[11:51] <Darkside> gonzo_: 5 unit rtty?
[11:51] <Darkside> don't use Baudot
[11:51] <Darkside> seriously
[11:51] <gonzo_> understood. I didn't realise there were two applications running there, only loaded up the installs and pressed 'go'
[11:51] <Darkside> you miss the shift character and you're sctewed
[11:51] <Darkside> its far easier to just send ascii
[11:53] <gonzo_> well I did it for amusment and because I have a mech teleprinter running on it, for a laugh
[11:53] <gonzo_> I was concerned by the missed shift issue though
[11:56] <gonzo_> but its easy enough to change to ascii
[11:56] <gonzo_> what's usual, 7 or 8 bit? Any parity?
[11:57] <Darkside> we use 7N1
[11:57] <Darkside> so no parity, 1 stop bit
[11:57] <Darkside> some people do 8N1
[11:58] <gonzo_> rgr, that's easy to do
[11:59] <fsphil> 8n1 isn't really much use unless you're sending binary data
[12:00] <gonzo_> wastes a bit
[12:00] <fsphil> not even that it's a waste, but it's an extra bit that can be received wrong
[12:02] <gonzo_> 5unit does that the advantage of efficiency. As most of the data is a run of figures shift data
[12:02] <gonzo_> but I have suffered the missed shift in my old rtty days
[12:02] <fsphil> yea, though if you're missing a character even in 7-bit the checksum will fail
[12:03] <gonzo_> did think same
[12:03] <fsphil> but you'll get more readable data out of the 7-bit even with bad characters
[12:03] <gonzo_> but the raw data would still be human readable
[12:03] <fsphil> yes
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[12:03] <fsphil> which could be useful after landing, and you get a weak signal
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[12:29] <zyp> why do you use ascii at all if it's about not wasting bits?
[12:30] <Darkside> less to screw up in your payload code
[12:30] <zyp> put the data in a compact binary format, use the leftover bits for error correction codes
[12:31] <gonzo_> suspect it's just to make it human readable
[12:31] <gonzo_> so easier to develop/debug
[12:32] <zyp> in other words, because people are not skilled enough?
[12:33] <BrainDamage> you know, plenty of protocols used over the internet trade space efficiency for readbility
[12:34] <BrainDamage> from simple plain text like irc, to that xml monstruosity that is SOAP
[12:35] <BrainDamage> saving frustration, especially if not paid for the task, is not necessarily denoting lack of skill
[12:35] <zyp> I'm sorry, I just see thing from my perspective
[12:36] <zyp> I just think that when you've got binary data, transforming it to ascii data for transport, then back to binary data is pretty pointless
[12:37] <zyp> and a hex dump of binary data is as readable as a csv dump
[12:37] <eroomde> not to random amateurs scanning around and happening upon your payload
[12:37] <number10> there are quite a few people tracking the balloon, if you use ascii everyone can easily read and understand the data being transmitted at the time it is received- If everyone used their own binary codes it would be a problem when decoding
[12:38] <eroomde> which is the whole reason we use old fashioned, human-readable Tx protocols
[12:39] <zyp> by skill, I meant knowledge
[12:40] <eroomde> a lot of problems would be easier if all uses had all the knowledge. instead, we work with what we have
[12:40] <eroomde> users*
[12:40] <number10> but multiple projects would have to get agreement of the encoding method - and then some random person who stumbled on the signal (as with apex) would not be able to decode
[12:41] <zyp> I'd say «spread better knowledge than limit yourself to what is commonly known»
[12:41] <eroomde> i'm definitley for people experimenting, don't gwet me wrong. But i hope and believe that we'll always be flying a 50baud rtty beacon of some flavour on payloads, if only as a backup to a primary one doing something cleverer
[12:42] <eroomde> just like rs232 will always be with us, even though it's crap by 99% of metrics, it's superb by the 1% that counts - the lowest common demonenator that everyone can use, understand, and interface with
[12:44] <Elwell> ditto vt100
[12:45] <eroomde> word
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[12:53] <fsphil> zyp, I'm trying a binary format with FEC next flight
[12:55] <Elwell> presumably the USAians (and those allowed to use HAM airbourne) can't use just *any* binary either?
[12:55] <gonzo_> now reason not to interleave packet types, experimental and default
[12:56] <fsphil> gonzo_, that's the plan
[12:56] <gonzo_> use use to be restricted to modes that only the GPO could read
[12:56] <fsphil> normal telemetry will continue
[12:56] <fsphil> just because it's useful
[12:56] <gonzo_> though Ofcom don't give a monkies anymore
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[12:57] <gonzo_> whicg group are you with phil?
[12:57] <fsphil> one man team :) the payloads callsign is hadie
[12:58] <fsphil> there isn't really a project or team name
[12:58] <gonzo_> hehe, well saves the arguments
[12:58] <fsphil> I'd love to have a team though
[12:58] <gonzo_> we had a lose group at work who used to play rockets a few years ago
[12:59] <gonzo_> but it tends to be just a couple doing anything and the rest just coming for the day out
[12:59] <fsphil> there is the swift project, a fairly spread out team. we'll be doing some long duration flights
[12:59] <gonzo_> and got robbed for a financial contribution, whioch suits me!
[13:00] <jonsowman> how's swift going fsphil?
[13:01] <jonsowman> and NigelMoby
[13:01] <Darkside> so glad we don't have stupid ham radio regulations in australia
[13:01] <jonsowman> count yourself lucky Darkside :)
[13:01] <Darkside> heh
[13:01] <gonzo_> I envy you
[13:01] <UpuWork> why are we inconsistant with the rest of the world anyway ?
[13:02] <Randomskk> WW2
[13:02] <Randomskk> in a nutshell
[13:03] <fsphil> jonsowman, going well. mostly UpuWork's work at the moment - doing some great pcb voodoo with eagle
[13:04] <jonsowman> good stuff
[13:04] <jonsowman> still doing hardware design at the moment then?
[13:04] <UpuWork> holding at the moment
[13:04] <UpuWork> schematic is being tested
[13:06] <jonsowman> :)
[13:06] <NigelMoby> Meh
[13:07] <UpuWork> by him /\
[13:07] <NigelMoby> how I love waking up to a court summons
[13:07] <UpuWork> what for ?
[13:08] <NigelMoby> tv license, seems the other housemate hasn't been paying it.
[13:08] <UpuWork> interesting
[13:08] <UpuWork> stabbed him yet ?
[13:08] <NigelMoby> concidering it when he gets home!
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[13:09] <Elwell> NigelMoby: missed a chance: Can you upload the dd dumps for us? As long as I know that is ok for a project forked from a GPL one.
[13:09] <Elwell> Yes, I could had dumped this before flashing, but totally forgotten that with the emotion of the moment
[13:09] <Elwell> gah
[13:10] <Elwell> NigelMoby: Missed a chance (take 2) http://www.b3ta.com/questions/tactless/post1422402
[13:12] <NigelMoby> looool blimey
[13:12] <GW8RAK> Keep getting threatening letters here at work about not having a licence.
[13:13] <GW8RAK> Apparently my details have been passed to their Investigations dept.
[13:13] <NigelMoby> in fairness, I don't even watch tv, none if us do, it took us 2 months to realise the dum card thing in the cable box wasn't working!
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[13:13] <NigelMoby> sim*
[13:13] <GW8RAK> Well I don't even have a telly at work, but they never asked if I have or not. Just threatened.
[13:13] <UpuWork> they do that
[13:13] <UpuWork> does my head in
[13:14] <GW8RAK> So if someone does arrive, I'll tell him to make an appointment
[13:14] <UpuWork> Them and the PRS
[13:14] <GW8RAK> Utter bastards!
[13:14] <NigelMoby> don't get me started on the prs
[13:14] <NigelMoby> it the bpi
[13:14] <UpuWork> how do they know what music we listen too
[13:14] <NigelMoby> or*
[13:15] <NigelMoby> between the 2 of them, when I had the obey radio station, they cost us over 12,000quid
[13:16] <NigelMoby> inet* not obey. dumb phone
[13:18] <fsphil> I imagine they'd try charging you even if you only did your own music, or even randomly generated music
[13:18] <NigelMoby> jonsowman sorry, things are going well, upu has been a wizz with eagle, just prototypeing it all now, make sure it actually works.
[13:18] <fsphil> they seem to think they own all music
[13:18] <jonsowman> sounds good NigelMoby
[13:18] <jonsowman> eagle is always fun
[13:18] <jonsowman> :|
[13:18] <UpuWork> lol ig I'm a wizz with Eagle god help the swift project...
[13:18] <fsphil> eagle not so bad
[13:18] <UpuWork> ig=if
[13:19] <NigelMoby> I tried it and failed, I don't touch the brd files as I'm certain ill break them lol
[13:19] <jonsowman> no it's really not that bad
[13:19] <jonsowman> learning it is really just a matter of getting to know its quirks
[13:19] <UpuWork> yeah
[13:19] <fsphil> the layout bit is a tad confusing to me so far, but I'll get there
[13:19] <UpuWork> it has many
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[13:19] <UpuWork> but I love them all
[13:19] <jonsowman> i really like the board editor
[13:20] <UpuWork> yeah however the autorouter makes some interesting decisions
[13:20] <UpuWork> but getting there
[13:20] <jonsowman> the autorouter is rubbish
[13:20] <jonsowman> it's worth the effort of doing manually
[13:21] <jonsowman> especially for analogue/RF traces
[13:21] <NigelMoby> always be wary of anything that has the word auto in front of it
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[13:24] <jonsowman> autorouted (mostly): http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonsowman/6302594015/in/set-72157625801591804
[13:24] <jonsowman> manually routed: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonsowman/6324855539/in/set-72157625801591804
[13:27] <NigelMoby> Oo just a small difference then!
[13:27] <UpuWork> yeah
[13:28] <gonzo_> have the same prob here with the TV licensing people
[13:29] <NigelMoby> ill have to plead guilty anyhow :/
[13:29] <griffonbot> Received email: David Hibberd "Re: [UKHAS] APRS"
[13:30] <gonzo_> I don't have a tv either, but they do not seem to understand this
[13:30] <hibby> gosh, i forgot my work email had proper names and titles.
[13:30] <gonzo_> I just send their 'salesmen' away
[13:32] <fsphil> hibby, wonder how the aprs people would react to an igate on 869mhz
[13:32] <hibby> "totally awesome"
[13:32] <hibby> even just a repeater
[13:33] <fsphil> it would let the unwashed masses onto the aprs-is though :)
[13:34] <fsphil> 869mhz has good power, and the limited duty wouldn't be as much of a problem for aprs
[13:34] <hibby> what about the free space path loss, but?
[13:34] <fsphil> it would be worse yea
[13:35] <fsphil> the modules put out about 500mw
[13:35] <gonzo_> if you rx and check for other users before txing, you don't need the 10% duty limit
[13:35] <fsphil> >10km that part of the spectrum is going to be very busy
[13:36] <eroomde> anyonethere?no?coolthnxBEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP
[13:36] <gonzo_> prob is, you would have far fewer tracking stations
[13:36] <fsphil> indeed
[13:36] <gonzo_> well, you don't need to listen too carefully
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[13:47] <Laurenceb> ok time to populate this ublox6 module
[13:47] <Lampka> hi
[13:48] <Laurenceb> but why is VDDUSB tied to gnd?
[13:55] <NigelMoby> Oo, I read that in the datasheet last night. but I forgot why.
[13:56] <Laurenceb> ok, so its meant to be done
[13:56] <Laurenceb> presumably to tell it theres no usb
[13:56] <Laurenceb> ok ill solder it on
[13:56] <Laurenceb> no i2c breakout tho :(
[13:57] <Randomskk> so
[13:57] <Randomskk> are you sure that i2c is what you think :P
[13:57] <Randomskk> because jon and I looked into this and it seems to be only for connecting to one other, specific device - some kind of GSM modem
[13:57] <Randomskk> admittedly that sounds stupid so I'd be happy to be wrong
[13:57] <Laurenceb> ive got it working on my ublox5
[13:57] <Laurenceb> so yes
[13:57] <Randomskk> hmm
[13:57] <Randomskk> okay
[13:58] <Randomskk> also are you using the spi flash?
[13:58] <Laurenceb> no
[13:58] <Randomskk> ok
[13:59] <Laurenceb> it seems to have a lower priority on the ublox rtos than usart
[14:00] <Laurenceb> so it can be more laggy than the usart data at high update rates
[14:00] <Laurenceb> and more jitter on the update timing
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[14:01] <Randomskk> I see
[14:01] <Randomskk> yea we were planning on using the uart
[14:02] <SpeedEvil> Perhaps the UART data is meant to implement 'pps'
[14:03] <SpeedEvil> For example, the first $ of 'GPGGA' is the top of the second.
[14:03] <SpeedEvil> OR something.
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[14:04] <NigelMoby> lauranceb http://www.u-blox.ch/images/downloads/Product_Docs/LEA-6_NEO-6_MAX-6_HardwareIntegrationManual_%28GPS.G6-HW-09007%29.pdf page 13
[14:06] Nick change: SAIDias -> W0OTM
[14:09] <Laurenceb> ok
[14:16] <Laurenceb> its assembled XD
[14:18] <NigelMoby> that was quick
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[14:27] <hibby> assembler often is
[14:27] <hibby> ba-dum-tsh
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[14:29] <griffonbot> @LVL1WhiteStar: Zero Pressure Balloon vent replacement video from last night: http://t.co/QxHSAKZt Launch on saturday! #ukhas #arhab #hab #highaltitude [http://twitter.com/LVL1WhiteStar/status/136450733657698304]
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[14:32] <hibby> ooho
[14:32] <hibby> launch on saturday
[14:32] <hibby> how exciting!
[14:32] <Zuph> Indeed.
[14:32] <fsphil> who what where why when?
[14:33] <SteamAtom> http://wiki.whitestarballoon.com/doku.php?id=launches:spitball:1
[14:33] <Zuph> White star; zero pressure to burst; columbus, indiana, usa; to test seam strength on zp balloon; Saturday, 11am EST
[14:33] <Zuph> Cover it, fsphil ?
[14:34] <fsphil> there is sufficient information in your response
[14:35] <fsphil> how difficult / easy is it to burst a ZP balloon?
[14:35] <fsphil> I'd have thought they don't
[14:35] <fsphil> or is it being sealed?
[14:36] <SteamAtom> and to test the Delorme InReach in flight. (this is dan on alternate acct)
[14:36] <fsphil> ooh you got one?
[14:36] <SteamAtom> I'll have it tomorrow!
[14:38] <SteamAtom> with zero thanks to Delorme. I have had a preorder in since september there, and today they told me on the phone that it will be shipping in the next few days, where amazon guaranteed that I could get it DELIVERED tomorrow if I order NOW
[14:38] <Zuph> fsphil: It's being sealed in a controled manner. See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtWsxwfbLJ0
[14:39] <SteamAtom> http://www.amazon.com/DeLorme-AG-008373-201-inReach-Satellite-Communicator/dp/B005N4B9QC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1321367960&sr=8-1
[14:39] <griffonbot> Received email: lingyin "[UKHAS] about yaw error for EKF to process orientation estimation of movement"
[14:39] <SteamAtom> hehe now one less in stock
[14:40] <Zuph> SteamAtom: Any path predictions for Saturday yet?
[14:42] <SteamAtom> no I didn't get to that. could you can run a habhub.org one today? It will climb at 1000fpm, burst at ~ 35000 ft and descend at 1500fpm. Alternately it may descent at around 100fpm
[14:42] <Dan-K2VOL> ok normal account working again
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[14:44] <Dan-K2VOL> can't wait to get that inreach, hope the service setup doesn't take a week
[14:45] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL: I'll run the habhub right now, just for you, Dan ;-*
[14:45] <Dan-K2VOL> haha
[14:45] <Dan-K2VOL> thx
[14:45] <Dan-K2VOL> after the video I actually got it all installed and caulked, but it was 1:30am when I finished and was too tired to video again
[14:49] <Zuph> Prediction 1: http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=7b185b299909607d216427bd6a620a1995dcb7ad
[14:50] <Zuph> Prediction 2: http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=24ce485499b1e1b36ed1c5f73fceceae94ade1f3
[14:50] Action: hibby would appreciate if you launched from Edinburgh or Glasgow.
[14:50] <hibby> kthxbai
[14:50] <Zuph> I sure hope it falls faster than 100fpm
[14:50] <Dan-K2VOL> haha hibby
[14:51] <Dan-K2VOL> holy...
[14:51] <Dan-K2VOL> yeahh
[14:51] <Dan-K2VOL> ok, we'll be setting the cutdown device short.
[14:51] <hibby> lolol
[14:51] <Dan-K2VOL> it would figure we get a damn jet stream wind that day
[14:52] <Dan-K2VOL> why can't the darn thing go to Louisville
[14:52] <hibby> 14:51 < Dan-K2VOL> yeahh
[14:52] <hibby> oh
[14:52] <hibby> umm
[14:52] <hibby> darn putty
[14:53] <Zuph> haha
[14:53] <Dan-K2VOL> silly putty eh?
[14:53] <Zuph> But Akron is so nice this time of year!
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[14:54] <hibby> Dan-K2VOL: i had something intelligent to say but then got interrupted
[14:55] <Dan-K2VOL> my thought on what will happen is: 100fpm up to 30,000 ft where a minor rupture around the middle of the balloon causes a slow leak. Ascent slows but continues to climb to 35,000 then slow descent begins. At some point the timed cutdown fires, initiating inversion and 1000fpm descent
[14:55] <hibby> oh
[14:55] <hibby> yes
[14:55] <hibby> Anyone Knowledgable: what are the lat/lon deltas on habhub
[14:57] <Dan-K2VOL> eh?
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[14:58] <hibby> second from bottom option in the launch card.
[15:01] <griffonbot> Received email: Robert Darlington "Re: [UKHAS] APRS"
[15:01] <fsphil> hibby, it's the area itwill download wind data for
[15:01] <hibby> aha
[15:02] <fsphil> shows as the red box on the map too I think
[15:02] <hibby> ah
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[15:03] <Zuph> Short post on my tiny balloon computer: http://www.meatandnetworking.com/projects/a-tiny-balloon-computer/
[15:03] <joph> in one week I'll have my funcube sdr :D
[15:04] <Dan-K2VOL> funcube is awesome
[15:04] <eroomde> my freq counter has arrived
[15:04] <Dan-K2VOL> I use one for work
[15:04] <eroomde> it's a day or toys
[15:04] <eroomde> of*
[15:04] <hibby> aha, well that changes Zuph's simulation a wee bit
[15:04] <fsphil> I brought my fcd to work today, going to see if I can hear my payload signal
[15:04] <fsphil> from home
[15:04] <eroomde> fcd?
[15:04] <eroomde> oh funcube dongle
[15:04] <Dan-K2VOL> nice fsphil
[15:05] <Dan-K2VOL> we got labview to read the signal in and decode data
[15:05] <eroomde> a pre-amp for them that's a bit tighter in its bandpass characteristics could make it a really very good balloon tracker indeed
[15:05] <Dan-K2VOL> there's a built-in audio input to the basic labview, woot
[15:05] <Dan-K2VOL> every other thing you want to do with it costs $1000 extra
[15:05] Action: hibby is playing with a NI Compact Rio these days... it's the actual shit
[15:05] <Zuph> hibby: Yes they are
[15:05] <Dan-K2VOL> haha nice
[15:06] <hibby> i'm having a meeting with NI on Friday to try and get some more
[15:06] <eroomde> Zuph: nice work
[15:06] <hibby> for our vibration simulation and stuff
[15:06] <Zuph> hibby: The local FIRST robotics team uses Compact Rios for all their robot control stuff :-p
[15:06] <eroomde> board looks good
[15:06] <hibby> UKube1 passed it's first critical design review!
[15:06] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL: Prediction 2 Rev B: http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=dcca99b1f1aed9900de282407591980ffca0c7d8
[15:06] <hibby> it's going ahead... hurrah!
[15:06] <Zuph> eroomde: Thanks, here's hoping it works out.
[15:07] <Dan-K2VOL> congrats hibby!
[15:07] <Dan-K2VOL> I want to hear your bird over our hackerspace, glad to hear it's moving ahead
[15:07] <Zuph> Yeah, congrats hibby
[15:07] <eroomde> this is what just arrived for me: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/220574418973?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649#ht_1588wt_897
[15:07] <eroomde> and ebay special
[15:07] <hibby> now I just need to unfsck my ground station
[15:07] <eroomde> an*
[15:07] <hibby> but i think I have funding to let my student slaves do that next month
[15:07] <hibby> :)
[15:07] <joph> just need to wait for the antennas out of china -.-
[15:08] <Zuph> eroomde: Very nice.
[15:08] <joph> i could build one with a rg58 and a sma connector...
[15:08] <eroomde> Zuph: sexy huh
[15:08] <eroomde> i want to do some funs things with it
[15:08] <joph> Dan-K2VOL, how did you calibrate the funcube?
[15:08] <eroomde> trying to see how oscillator frequency changes with acceleration
[15:09] <Dan-K2VOL> joph I have no idea, my electrical engineer did it.
[15:09] <Dan-K2VOL> sorry
[15:09] <joph> i have no function generator with this frequencies ;)
[15:09] <hibby> lol, pet electrical engineer in the back room
[15:09] <hibby> does he get on with the cat too?
[15:09] <Dan-K2VOL> mmmm yes, he likes to curl up on warm things too
[15:10] <hibby> assuming said engineer is male, of course
[15:10] <joph> my i ask a friend of me, me makes stuff like ham
[15:10] <hibby> (a 99.9% safe assumption)
[15:10] <Zuph> eroomde: Neat. What's the end-application for the frequency/acceleration research?
[15:10] <eroomde> compensating radio things in rockets
[15:10] <eroomde> eg gps
[15:11] <Zuph> ah ha!
[15:11] <eroomde> as the local oscillator source can be out of whack with what it should be, so the fixes will become a lot less accurate
[15:11] <eroomde> also i can do basic things with it like make some temp compensated, calibrated hab radios
[15:12] <Zuph> Yeah.
[15:12] <eroomde> so one could fly several habs on 434.650 radiometrix chips simultanously, without them drifing into each 0ther
[15:13] <hibby> \o/
[15:13] <hibby> job interview!
[15:15] <eroomde> ?
[15:15] <Dan-K2VOL> cool hibby, what kind of place
[15:15] <hibby> Thales Optronics
[15:16] <hibby> eroomde: escaping academia in a year
[15:16] <hibby> got to do the applications thing now
[15:16] <eroomde> cool
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[15:16] Action: Zuph misses academia
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[15:29] <Zuph> Lenovo finally decided to ship my laptop out.
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[15:34] <Dan-K2VOL> I can't believe amazon is doing $18 ONE day shipping
[15:34] <Dan-K2VOL> I suppose it's coming from a warehouse in our city
[15:34] <Dan-K2VOL> on the delorme inreach
[15:35] <Zuph> It would have been $4 if you had prime :-p
[15:36] <Zuph> Also, Amazon has such ridiculously huge shipping accounts that it wouldn't surprise me if that was what fedex charged them.
[15:36] <Dan-K2VOL> plus $70/year divided by the number of shipments bought at amazon in the year
[15:36] <Dan-K2VOL> which doesn't come out ahead for me
[15:37] <Dan-K2VOL> though they're being funny about it by letting "prime" users borrow books on their kindles "free" from amazon
[15:37] <Zuph> heh
[15:38] <Zuph> The streaming isn't a bad deal, either. A nice supplement to Netflix.
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[16:13] <Laurenceb> http://berkeley.intel-research.net/arahimi/helmet/
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[16:54] <nosebleedKT> found epic evil bug in my flight system. SD cant have more than 512 files in a directory :p
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[17:07] <fsphil> you sure?
[17:07] <fsphil> it's probably a limitation of the file system or driver you're using
[17:07] <nosebleedKT> yes limitation of the sdlib
[17:08] <nosebleedKT> fat16 is the filesystem
[17:08] <fsphil> that's likely the problem
[17:08] <nosebleedKT> yeah
[17:08] <nosebleedKT> fortunately i found this bug at the ground
[17:09] <nosebleedKT> and not at nearspace :P
[17:09] <fsphil> I've a fat32 formatted card here with 3118 files in one directory
[17:09] <nosebleedKT> im curious to search for a minix filesystem library for arduino :p
[17:10] <fsphil> there are road works near my office, probably going to take me an hour to get home (3.5km) :)
[17:11] <nosebleedKT> :P
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[17:14] <daveake> Anyone seen http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4d0_1321078656 ?
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[18:01] <joph> what's the typical search word for a 434MHz input amplifier?
[18:02] <hibby> define input amplifier
[18:02] <hibby> is this in an rx?
[18:03] <joph> just rx
[18:03] <joph> i don't need tx
[18:03] <joph> just receiving data and voice
[18:03] <hibby> so it's a pre-receiver amplifier?
[18:04] <gonzo_> preamp
[18:04] <hibby> I'd be looking for a uhf linear amplifier or something
[18:04] <gonzo_> or LNA (low noise amolifier"
[18:04] <hibby> i've got some inline preamps at the satellite station that do a good job
[18:04] <gonzo_> look for one for the 70cm amateur band
[18:05] <joph> yeah
[18:05] <gonzo_> lot of designs about
[18:05] <gonzo_> I have one by g0mrf
[18:05] <joph> great, 70cm preamp is the right search word
[18:06] <gonzo_> LNA is worth searching for too
[18:06] <hibby> this is what we're using on the satellite station http://www.radioworld.co.uk/catalog/ssb-sp-7000_ssb_electronics_70cm_masthead_pre-amp-p-1462.html
[18:06] <hibby> very good, but quite expensive
[18:06] <gonzo_> and 430mhz and 440mhz
[18:06] <gonzo_> yep, they are
[18:07] <gonzo_> http://g0mrf.com/432LNA.htm
[18:07] <gonzo_> he does a kit for £20
[18:09] <hibby> lol
[18:09] <hibby> awesome
[18:10] <hibby> nice amp
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[18:26] <joph> hibby, may I order one ;)
[18:26] <joph> 25¬ sounds great
[18:27] <joph> are the inductors included or are they diy?
[18:27] <joph> if diy the pcb would be enough
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[18:45] <hibby> joph: dunno, never got out
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[18:59] <fsphil> 259.96 for a pre-amp .. is it *really* that much difference?
[18:59] <fsphil> (40 minutes to get home, better than I expected :)
[19:01] <fsphil> something like that would be great for me, would mean I don't have to trek into the attic and fight giant spiders each time I want to track a payload :)
[19:02] <joph> :)
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[19:04] <joph> so I'll first have to look for a case
[19:06] <fsphil> radioworld need a better search
[19:07] <RocketBoy> build the minikits one
[19:08] <fsphil> I got a kit pre-amp, are they any good?
[19:08] <fsphil> I need a case too -- thinking of one of those metal ones
[19:18] <zachjacobs> hi all, I'm trying to use the tool here: http://www.cusf.co.uk/calc/ on a Hwoyee 1600 g balloon w/ a 5125g payload but the tool doesn't allow >5kg payload. any suggestions?
[19:18] <Dan-K2VOL> zachjacobs where are you located
[19:18] <Dan-K2VOL> country
[19:19] <zachjacobs> usa
[19:19] <Dan-K2VOL> are you aware of the payload weight regulations that apply in the USA?
[19:19] <hibby> I know people from that country!
[19:19] <SpeedEvil> zachjacobs: Just say 5Kg, and it'll be close enough if you add another 100g worth of lift gas.
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[19:19] <zachjacobs> yes, should be <12lbs or ~5.4kg
[19:21] <SpeedEvil> Isn't the balloon mass counted in the payload?
[19:21] <SpeedEvil> In that reg
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[19:22] <Dan-K2VOL> cool zachjcobs
[19:22] <Dan-K2VOL> where in the USA?
[19:22] <Dan-K2VOL> we're in Louisville KY
[19:23] <zachjacobs> Weird, I'm from Lexington, KY
[19:23] <zachjacobs> that's awesome
[19:24] <Dan-K2VOL> nice! well, what are you up to? and want to come along to another 12lb launch this saturday?
[19:24] <Dan-K2VOL> We're testing a zero pressure plastic balloon
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[19:26] <zachjacobs> @SpeedEvil: I'm pretty sure the reg is specific to the payload weight and doesn't include the balloon weight. I'll double check though
[19:27] <hibby> zachjacobs: just a heads up... irc doesn't do well with twitter commands, we've been about a lot longer...
[19:27] <hibby> if you miss out the @, it'll flash lights and ping SpeedEvil's screen
[19:28] <SpeedEvil> Naah - no lights, just the siren.
[19:29] <zachjacobs> haha, thanks. I wasn't sure how to mention someone's nickname when replying to their message...
[19:30] <zachjacobs> any hints for me? I've tried to look it up but I couldn't figure it out...
[19:31] <SpeedEvil> zachjacobs: like this
[19:31] <hibby> zachjacobs: try typing the first bit of someone's name and pressing tab
[19:31] <zachjacobs> hibby: nice!
[19:31] <RocketBoy> well the spec is good enough - yes a metal case would be nice
[19:32] <RocketBoy> fsphil:
[19:32] <zachjacobs> Dan-K2VOL: I'd love to but we're planning on launching this saturday with a 3D camera as our main payload. I'd be interested in collaborating in the future though!
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[19:34] <Dan-K2VOL> very neat zachjacobs what is the group? are you guys using APRS?
[19:34] <Dan-K2VOL> http://wiki.whitestarballoon.com/doku.php?id=launches:spitball:1 is our launch info
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[19:58] <zachjacobs> Dan-K2VOL: that's great, thanks for sharing. I'm with the Space Systems Lab at UK, we're using APRS...more info here:http://ssl.engineering.uky.edu/missions/near-space/hamster-3d/
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[20:00] <Zuph> zachjacobs: Do you know Chhris Gleim?
[20:00] <Zuph> *Chris
[20:02] <zachjacobs> No, I don't...is he in the area?
[20:03] <Zuph> He was pretty heavily involved in KySat/Kentucky Space while I was at speed school.
[20:09] <zachjacobs> That's awesome...it's a small world, that's where I'm working now.
[20:09] <Upu> evening zachjacobs UK launch on Saturday ?
[20:09] <Upu> ah no
[20:09] <Upu> that looks like the US :)
[20:10] <zachjacobs> Upu: UK = University of KY in this case :)
[20:10] <Upu> yeah that threw me for 10 secs
[20:11] <zachjacobs> haha...it happens quite frequently.
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[20:12] <Zuph> zachjacobs: Absolutely. I tried to get involved with KY Space, but they weren't going out of their way to accomodate folks going through the Speed School coop cycles, and Kris Kimel was a jerk.
[20:13] <Dan-K2VOL> zachjacobs looks like a good payload system
[20:13] <Dan-K2VOL> we have about 6lbs of weight we need to add, have any things you want to fly that are ready to tie-on-and-turn-on?
[20:14] <Dan-K2VOL> we're going up to 30,000 ft burst and then back down
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[21:07] Nick change: gonzo__ -> gonzo_
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[22:31] <Laurenceb_> Randomskk: ping
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[22:39] <gonzo_> at last, have full telemerty out of my pic dev board
[22:39] <fsphil-laptop> woo!
[22:39] <fsphil-laptop> love that bit
[22:39] <gonzo_> just need a few gal of He now
[22:39] <gonzo_> printing out on my mechanical tty
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[22:55] <fsphil-laptop> gonzo_, got video? :)
[22:56] <gonzo_> yep, I'll drag it off the cam
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[22:58] <fsphil-laptop> The lvl1 guys have a mechanical printer
[22:58] <hibby> it's nice
[22:58] <hibby> i saw it when i was over
[22:58] <gonzo_> Bit big to take portable
[22:58] <fsphil-laptop> not ready for the chase car yet?
[22:59] <fsphil-laptop> "payload lost, reason: paper jam"
[22:59] <NigeyS> lol
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[23:01] <hibby> pc load letter?!
[23:01] <fsphil-laptop> "printer on fire"
[23:02] <gonzo_> www.g0nzo.co.uk/misc/tty/DSCF2710.AVI
[23:03] <fsphil-laptop> love the callsign
[23:05] <gonzo_> hehe, the result of passing the CW whilst being a pissed student
[23:06] <gonzo_> did try for g0nad, but northumbria and district ARS got that. (Not sure they realised?!)
[23:06] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[23:07] <gonzo_> that avi is a bit big, sorry
[23:07] <fsphil-laptop> I've stuck with vim for my callsign, but I may try something else if I get the full license
[23:07] <fsphil-laptop> 10 minutes to download, not so bad
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[23:09] <gonzo_> wonder who will be the first to read the print and get my qth?
[23:10] <gonzo_> (though I recon siezmic survey would find me when this thing is printing!)
[23:10] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[23:10] <gonzo_> M3 or 2E ?
[23:11] <fsphil-laptop> me? 2i and mi6 :)
[23:13] <gonzo_> ah, course
[23:16] <NigeyS> phils a spy :p
[23:16] <fsphil-laptop> totally lol
[23:17] <fsphil-laptop> the sign on the door was "MI6 registration"
[23:17] <fsphil-laptop> loved that
[23:17] <NigeyS> haha awsome!
[23:17] <fsphil-laptop> someone already got the MI6SPY callsign
[23:17] <fsphil-laptop> first one I tried
[23:18] <fsphil-laptop> Tim got a good one, PD4TA
[23:19] <gonzo_> hehe
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[23:19] <fsphil-laptop> yikes gonzo_, that think could put your eye out
[23:19] <gonzo_> suppose I should start ordering ntx2 modules now?
[23:24] <fsphil-laptop> will have to build that some day. I liked the felt tip pen printer someone linked to the other day
[23:25] <fsphil-laptop> I made the opposite a long time ago, a scanner with a photo diode for the commodore 64. it never worked very well
[23:25] <fsphil-laptop> had to be moved manually
[23:27] <gonzo_> was that the lego one?
[23:27] <fsphil-laptop> yea
[23:35] <gonzo_> Noticed there is a licence free video link allocation on 1.36GHz. May be interesting to play. A ground station close in should be able to get pictures, even with 10mW limit.
[23:35] <fsphil-laptop> you think so?
[23:35] <Darkside> no
[23:36] <Darkside> hell no
[23:36] <SpeedEvil> 'in close' - yes
[23:36] <SpeedEvil> But very close.
[23:36] <fsphil-laptop> you'd need a heck of an antenna
[23:36] <Darkside> analog video requires a massive bandwidth, on the order of 5-10MHz
[23:36] <Darkside> this means your dB/Hz is really really low
[23:36] <SpeedEvil> And your signal needs to exceed the noise in the channel.
[23:36] <Darkside> gonzo_: we did the link budgets for a 1.28GHz video link, broadcasting 1W of power
[23:37] <gonzo_> what rx antenna?
[23:37] <SpeedEvil> There is a reason TV uses hundreds of oodles of power.
[23:37] <Darkside> gonzo_: 20 soething dbI loop yagi
[23:37] <Darkside> i think it was for a 24dBi loop yagi, and the maximum path length was about 40km to get a colour picture
[23:38] <Laurenceb_> i was looking at the RF stm32
[23:38] <Laurenceb_> but link budget sucks for that too :(
[23:38] <gonzo_> there's a 3mtr dish avail near here
[23:38] <Darkside> gonzo_: then you have to track the payload
[23:38] <Laurenceb_> <1Km max range
[23:38] <Darkside> gonzo_: but still, its not happening with 10mW
[23:38] <Darkside> no way in hell
[23:38] <Darkside> your path loss is WAY too high
[23:38] <SpeedEvil> Darkside: Unless you have a directional antenna at the other end.
[23:38] <SpeedEvil> Or use a rather higher frwq.
[23:38] <Darkside> SpeedEvil: which you an't do
[23:39] <Darkside> can't do*
[23:39] <gonzo_> not done the calcs myself
[23:39] Action: SpeedEvil holds up his laser.
[23:39] <Darkside> how the hell are you going to point the directional antenna
[23:39] <gonzo_> could take the telem and feed that back to the tracker
[23:39] <SpeedEvil> Darkside: Servos + momentum wheel.
[23:39] <Darkside> gonzo_: antenna on the ground is fine
[23:39] <Darkside> its the antenna on the payload thats the problem
[23:40] <SpeedEvil> It's not technically hard. Merely an enginering challenge.
[23:40] <gonzo_> though it would prob be easier to just slacken the bolts and do it by hand
[23:40] <Darkside> seriously, it would probably end up being cheaper to train to france and launch it there
[23:40] <Darkside> and just use 70cm ATV
[23:40] <gonzo_> hehe, yep
[23:40] <Laurenceb_> ive got some galvo mirrors off ebay
[23:40] <Laurenceb_> £50
[23:40] <fsphil-laptop> datv would be neat to try
[23:40] <fsphil-laptop> though power hungry
[23:40] <gonzo_> we've used L band cams on rockets for years, but they are a bit closer!
[23:41] <Laurenceb_> but i want to do 3D laser doppler lidar with them
[23:41] <Laurenceb_> at some point....
[23:41] <Darkside> you might be able to do 2.4GHz video actually
[23:41] <Darkside> but you have teh same path loss problems
[23:41] <gonzo_> someone must have done sstv on a pic
[23:41] <Darkside> but at least you can get a higher power transmitter
[23:41] <Laurenceb_> it has been done
[23:41] <Darkside> gonzo_: yeah, its been done
[23:41] <Laurenceb_> with a dish
[23:42] <Laurenceb_> and cheap ebay pedophile cameras
[23:42] <gonzo_> 2.4gig is just too noisy here
[23:42] <Darkside> gonzo_: yeah, thats the problem
[23:42] <Darkside> but just one way might be usable
[23:42] <fsphil-laptop> not sure about a pic though.. but definitely sstv has been done on an avr
[23:42] <Laurenceb_> can remember the link...
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[23:43] <gonzo_> be nice to get pics, but where we are it's a high probability that the payload will be lost at sea
[23:43] <Darkside> gonzo_: if you want pics for cheapish, then do SSDV
[23:43] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: galvos would be excellent for bidirectional optical links too
[23:43] <Darkside> its not video
[23:43] <Darkside> but its something
[23:44] <fsphil-laptop> it's kind of video...
[23:44] <fsphil-laptop> 1 frame per 180 seconds ;)
[23:44] <SpeedEvil> (The lesser known Queen song)
[23:44] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[23:45] <fsphil-laptop> who wants to wait for their pictures forever
[23:45] <fsphil-laptop> nah, can't think of any more
[23:46] Action: SpeedEvil tries to work out why the council has not charged him for water rates in October, but charged a little more (not twice) as much in November.
[23:46] <SpeedEvil> Fat balloons make the world (appear to) go round?
[23:46] <gonzo_> he must have had his legs crossed for most of october
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[23:48] <Darkside> SpeedEvil: get on your bike and ride! (to chase the balloon)
[23:50] <fsphil-laptop> I want the payload to break free (from the tree)
[23:50] <SpeedEvil> Winner.
[23:50] <fsphil-laptop> yay, points
[23:52] <gonzo_> or for the chase cars: Day at the Race
[23:52] <gonzo_> s
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[23:55] <Darkside> gonzo_: thats what it was like on the weekend
[23:55] <Darkside> lots of overtaking each other going on :P
[23:57] <gonzo_> as happens
[23:57] <Darkside> yes
[23:57] <Darkside> i'm rying to convince a friend with a Subaru WRX to come along for a chase
[23:57] <gonzo_> btw, is farnell the only supplier of the ntx2 modules?
[23:58] <Darkside> i think a lot of peop[le here buy them from radiometrix directly
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[00:00] --- Wed Nov 16 2011