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[00:56] <bigcw> evening charlie
[00:57] <CMos_UK> Evening Chris ;-)
[00:57] <bigcw> we should really change your reverse DNS
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[05:56] <SpeedEvil> http://i.imgur.com/RS6Bs.jpg
[05:57] <Darkside> >_>
[05:57] <Darkside> someone tied a balloon to a pidgeon?
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[08:37] <nosebleedKT> ah , those avr fuses ! I didnt know they exist :p
[08:37] <nosebleedKT> they do lots of stuff
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[09:28] Nick change: mattltm -> mattltm-mobile
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[10:23] <jcoxon> morning
[10:25] <fsphil-laptop> mornin jcoxon
[10:33] <mattltm-mobile> H jcoxon :)
[10:33] <mattltm-mobile> fsphil :)
[10:33] <fsphil-laptop> morning mattltm-mobile, how's over yonder. I bet it's windy :)
[10:37] <mattltm-mobile> Not bad. On the M6 at the mo just bast Blackpool
[10:37] <jcoxon> its very clam here
[10:37] <jcoxon> calm*
[10:37] <jcoxon> low cloud
[10:42] <number10> blackpool - thats the place to be to contact australia with 500mw USB http://www.southgatearc.org/news/november2011/many_pacific_contacts_for_qrp_pedestrian_portable.htm
[10:48] <fsphil-laptop> in 20m too
[10:49] <mattltm-mobile> I wish I had my HF with me :(
[10:49] <fsphil-laptop> I'm surprised you don't :)
[10:49] <mattltm-mobile> Just 10m, 6m, 2m and 70cm FM in the car.
[10:49] <fsphil-laptop> done much on 10m?
[10:49] <mattltm-mobile> I am running my tiny 300mw APRS tracker though :)
[10:49] <mattltm-mobile> Not a huge ammount.
[10:50] <mattltm-mobile> Got brazil from the car on 10M a few weeks back :0
[10:51] <fsphil-laptop> nice
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[11:15] <fsphil-laptop> Latitude: 773094113370.000000
[11:15] <fsphil-laptop> Longitude: 1546188226740.000000
[11:15] <fsphil-laptop> Altitude: -20.004268
[11:15] <fsphil-laptop> guess I have a bug somewhere
[11:16] <mattltm-mobile> looks that way :p
[11:16] <mattltm-mobile> I have appeared on aprs.fi :)
[11:17] <mattltm-mobile> Not great range but proves the code works i guess :)
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[12:01] <daveake_> fsphil-laptop - That's a different one :)
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[12:08] <fsphil-laptop> daveake_, fixed it :)
[12:09] <daveake_> Oh good :-)
[12:09] <daveake_> So your GPS isn't actually under the surface of Mars? ;)
[12:10] <fsphil-laptop> first mars hab!
[12:10] <fsphil-laptop> hmm.. that would be expensive. not only to launch the balloon and payload, but to construct a mars GPS system
[12:12] <SpeedEvil> You can use earth GPS system from mars.
[12:13] <daveake_> Problems, problems, all I hear is problems ;)
[12:13] <SpeedEvil> You will need a large dish however, and dilution of position will be _BAD_
[12:13] <x-f> anyway, recovery would exceed payload's value
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[12:15] <zyp> SpeedEvil, aren't the antennas on gps satellites mainly radiading towards earth?
[12:15] <SpeedEvil> zyp: yes.
[12:16] <SpeedEvil> zyp: the basic idea is you point the antenna at earth, and pick up emissions from satellites just coming over the horizon.
[12:16] <SpeedEvil> This works 'OK' for the moon.
[12:16] <SpeedEvil> But not really at all for mars, with sane dish sizes.
[12:16] <fsphil-laptop> has gps been used from lunar orbit?
[12:17] <SpeedEvil> No.
[12:17] <SpeedEvil> I'm basing this on the radiation patterns as I understand them.
[12:17] <SpeedEvil> The doppler is not excessive
[12:17] <zyp> SpeedEvil, sounds pretty useless
[12:18] <SpeedEvil> The signal strength is a bit low - you'd need a 1.2m dish or so.
[12:18] <zyp> from the moon, using fixed ground stations would be better suited
[12:18] <SpeedEvil> But you get positioning within about a hundred meters.
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[12:19] <zyp> the point of using satellites for gps is to have free LOS, the moon has that to much of earth's surface
[12:19] <SpeedEvil> Sure.
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[12:20] <SpeedEvil> However, dilution of position would be much worse in that case, as the baseline is only the radius of the earth, not a few degrees larger.
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[12:37] <NigeyMoby> Meh
[12:37] Action: SpeedEvil agrees.
[12:37] <NigeyMoby> FYI ... helium price increase of 15% kicks in on 1st December.
[12:41] Action: Jessica_Lily yawns
[12:41] <Upu> hydrogen ftw
[12:41] <Upu> yawns ? pls tell me you didn't just get up ?
[12:42] <NigeyMoby> lol
[12:42] Action: fsphil-laptop got the day off, but ended up getting up at 8am anyway
[12:42] <fsphil-laptop> bla
[12:44] <Laurenceb> doh
[12:44] Action: Laurenceb forgot to pick up ublox6 board
[12:44] <Laurenceb> have to assemble it tomorrow
[12:44] <Upu> that the one I didd ?
[12:44] <Laurenceb> yes
[12:44] <Laurenceb> going to use the kit at work
[12:44] <Upu> let me know how you get on if it works anyone else who wants one can pay :)
[12:45] <Upu> your beta testing
[12:45] <Laurenceb> :P ta
[12:45] <Darkside> who was looking at making the predictor use the ascent wind data?
[12:45] <Darkside> because that would have been real useful yesterday
[12:46] <fsphil-laptop> that payload didn't know which way to go
[12:46] <Darkside> ahh we expected the path reversal stuff
[12:46] <Darkside> its more what happened during descent
[12:46] <Darkside> the predictor was quite a bit off
[12:46] <NigeyMoby> good video ?
[12:46] <Darkside> yep
[12:47] <Darkside> very good video
[12:47] <NigeyMoby> Yey
[12:47] <Darkside> but it had a yoyo in front of it
[12:47] <Darkside> i might have another crack at uploading the down-facing launch video
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[13:29] <Darkside> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ0DGAm-_DY&feature=youtu.be
[13:34] <Dutch-Mill> Hi Darkside nice video....take a peek here : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nH0U27-2Oc&feature=player_embedded
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[13:47] <WillDuckworth> hey fsphil-laptop - when are you thinking of launching?
[13:49] <fsphil-laptop> as soon as the predictor shows a reasonable landing spot, I'll do the video launch
[13:49] <fsphil-laptop> if it's showing strong winds, I'll probably do the floating launch
[13:50] <fsphil-laptop> saturday currently is a bit too near the lake: http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=b9b95626140931bcd9afb3c48e25e6cafd92d45d
[13:50] <fsphil-laptop> and sunday is scotland :)
[13:51] <WillDuckworth> makes it interesting....
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[13:52] <fsphil-laptop> I don't fancy a ferry trip :)
[13:52] <fsphil-laptop> well I do, but they're not cheap
[13:52] <fsphil-laptop> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=c31da86952d5df5884f2c8f4f6cbeb0c9f8b8733
[13:52] <fsphil-laptop> it's not even on land :)
[13:53] <fsphil-laptop> the higher altitude part is going south east, it might make a good float
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[13:54] <WillDuckworth> will it be an ssdv payload (hadie is it?)
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[13:57] <fsphil-laptop> they both should be yea
[13:58] <fsphil-laptop> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=56507626ece998b038105360b0f756e1f4379d00
[13:58] <fsphil-laptop> maybe not the best float
[13:58] <fsphil-laptop> though still a long way from an accurate prediction
[14:02] <griffonbot> @LVL1WhiteStar: Balloon inflation test, all patched up for flight! Now leak testing #ukhas http://t.co/TyJ9clUt [http://twitter.com/LVL1WhiteStar/status/136081460305207296]
[14:08] <Zuph> Morning, #highaltitude
[14:08] <fsphil-laptop> hiya Zuph
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[14:12] <griffonbot> Received email: Solar Balloonman "[UKHAS] Re: James May, Man Lab."
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[14:16] <SamSilver> Making popcorn with hot-air-iron lol
[14:17] <SamSilver> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lvl1/6333222944/in/photostream/
[14:18] <fsphil-laptop> haha
[14:20] <fsphil-laptop> both my hot air gun and soldering iron have been borrowed. I'd really need to get them back
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[14:21] <Dan-K2VOL> haha that's us
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[14:40] <gonzo_> using the cloths iron for making toasties was my favorite as a student
[14:41] <SamSilver> cheese and anything was my fav
[14:44] <GW8RAK> Ruined your best clothes though :)
[14:46] <joph> @ SamSilver lol
[14:49] <number10> mmm wondering what your shirt smelt like
[14:50] <gonzo_> ironing clothes?
[14:50] <gonzo_> shirt?
[14:51] <gonzo_> someone sent me a load of pictures of those sort of bodgy DIY things. And I cringed that I'd done over half of them
[14:51] <number10> lol
[14:52] <number10> i take it thats you have now given up bad habits
[14:52] <number10> -s
[14:53] <gonzo_> old habits don't die hard, they just don't die!
[14:53] <gonzo_> (though the price of toastie makers has gone down)
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[14:57] <SpeedEvil> The price of toastie makers may go up as well as down. Your toasted bread products may be at risk if you fail to make payments.
[15:01] <GW8RAK> A friend in the navy used to make toast by slipping bread into the radar's waveguide
[15:01] <GW8RAK> 3s per side
[15:06] <fsphil-laptop> mmm... toastiehertz
[15:07] <Upu> back
[15:08] <Upu> did you get chance to try my SCIENCE!! fsphil ?
[15:08] <fsphil-laptop> not yet, there was an unexpected invasion of sick kids
[15:09] <SpeedEvil> Zombies!
[15:13] <fsphil-laptop> I think I've escaped
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[15:26] <Dan-K2VOL> Ugh I think I managed to heat-seal a patch to the INSIDE of our massive ZP balloon
[15:26] <Dan-K2VOL> it took all weekend to devise a method and heater element that would do it
[15:28] <hibby> nice one
[15:28] <Dan-K2VOL> I ended up gluing the polyethylene patch (10cmx5cm ) to a silicone rubber pad with light adhesive, and the pad was glued to a small block of wood that size, which rested on a pillow, inside the balloon
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[15:30] <Dan-K2VOL> then I applied clear packing/shipping tape, made of polypropylene over the outside of the 5cm long slice-hole (PP has 30C higher melting point than PE)
[15:31] <Dan-K2VOL> and wrapped nichrome wire around a polished hook, and taped a thermocouple to the end, and connected to a regulated power supply. Twiddle knobs until temp reads 155C and press firmly along the desired sealing path
[15:31] <Dan-K2VOL> the end result looks quite good
[15:33] <SpeedEvil> Congrats!
[15:33] <Dan-K2VOL> thanks
[15:34] <SpeedEvil> Though the question remains - why?
[15:34] <SpeedEvil> When you could have done it on the outside.
[15:34] <SpeedEvil> I suppose in principle it's more rugged.
[15:34] <SpeedEvil> But at ZP pressures...
[15:35] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah true the pressures won't provide much force on the patch to assist in the seal
[15:36] <Dan-K2VOL> put the patch on the inside more out of principle I supppose. The difficulty would have been not much different on the outside, i'd still have to have that silicone pad supported on the inside
[15:41] <griffonbot> @LVL1WhiteStar: Hard work patching the balloon this weekend #Arhab #ukhas http://t.co/yjmc35CX [http://twitter.com/LVL1WhiteStar/status/136106385426497537]
[15:41] <griffonbot> @LVL1WhiteStar: Patch up close #ukhas http://t.co/I2yZZAbC [http://twitter.com/LVL1WhiteStar/status/136106466431074304]
[15:41] <Dan-K2VOL> there's some pics
[15:41] <Dan-K2VOL> the new update to iOS twitter won't let me post multiple photos in one tweet anymore
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[15:47] <hibby> yawn
[15:47] <hibby> today is crap :/
[15:54] <Jessica_Lily> awhh
[15:54] <Jessica_Lily> whats up
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[15:54] <hibby> cba with work
[15:54] <hibby> currently, job hunting, and can't be bothered filling out the relevant forms companies want
[15:55] <Jessica_Lily> that sucks
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[15:57] <hibby> half tempted just to remain in academia
[15:57] <hibby> no money though :/
[15:58] <Upu> my advice is get a job
[15:58] <Upu> you get like money and everything
[15:59] <hibby> totally
[15:59] <hibby> i get like money now, but tehre's not much of it
[16:01] <Jessica_Lily> hibby want cheering up?
[16:01] <hibby> potentially...
[16:01] <Jessica_Lily> https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-XekAWaacwX4/TrT8i58yanI/AAAAAAAAEQE/Q4-VH9rz7R0/h301/O21.jpg
[16:01] <Jessica_Lily> ^_^
[16:02] <hibby> lol
[16:02] <Upu> no boobs...
[16:02] <Randomskk> https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ZvhopaDwvz8/Tr9_6fcPPSI/AAAAAAAArKY/epskA4cVH8A/w242/Kitten%2Bin%2Ba%2Btube.gif
[16:03] <Upu> thats funny#
[16:03] <hibby> https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-a2pZcBCcrVo/TlwB0lCXfsI/AAAAAAAAAoM/ozUziVV6-v8/s1024/DSCF0158.JPG < Dan-K2VOL 's cat :)
[16:03] <Jessica_Lily> its cute
[16:03] <hibby> it likes climbing on things
[16:03] <Upu> here hibby http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9upTLWRZTfw
[16:03] <Upu> thats how you do it
[16:04] <Jessica_Lily> THE PERIODIC TABLE :D ^_______^
[16:04] <Jessica_Lily> they covered up my favourite element though :(
[16:04] <hibby> Upu: wow.
[16:04] <Jessica_Lily> damn cats in the way
[16:05] <Jessica_Lily> 5 points for anyone who gets it :P
[16:05] <UpuWork> you have a favourite element ?
[16:05] <Jessica_Lily> like knows what it is
[16:05] <Jessica_Lily> and of course i do
[16:06] <hibby> Jessica_Lily: blame Dan-K2VOL for having such a big cat
[16:06] <hibby> got measured for a new suit today
[16:06] <UpuWork> don't take this the wrong way but are you really female Jessica_Lily ?
[16:06] <Jessica_Lily> yeh
[16:06] <GW8RAK> lol
[16:06] <Jessica_Lily> i am :P
[16:06] <UpuWork> and you're into electronics
[16:06] <Jessica_Lily> so
[16:06] <UpuWork> and have a favourite element
[16:06] <Jessica_Lily> dude i study chemistry at university
[16:06] <hibby> (I might have been spending monies) and I found out my waist has grown by 4" since before I went to america
[16:07] <UpuWork> lol
[16:07] <hibby> :/
[16:07] <Jessica_Lily> you think i wouldn't have a favourite element
[16:07] <GW8RAK> We could do with more chemists on here
[16:07] <UpuWork> we have Oliver
[16:07] <hibby> and I thought mrs hibby calling me chubbyfuntime was unfair.
[16:07] <Jessica_Lily> woot!
[16:07] <Randomskk> haha what a name
[16:07] <Jessica_Lily> chemists rule
[16:07] <UpuWork> so its covered up
[16:07] <UpuWork> so its something reactive ?
[16:08] Action: UpuWork gave up A level chemistry
[16:08] <Jessica_Lily> urrr its not like group 1
[16:08] <Jessica_Lily> if thats what you mean
[16:08] <GW8RAK> Oliver's a biologist
[16:08] <UpuWork> is he ?
[16:08] <GW8RAK> Must get emails done. Mustn't chat
[16:08] <Jessica_Lily> UpuWork https://farm2.static.flickr.com/1178/5108189681_754257b2c3.jpg <-- picture of me
[16:08] <GW8RAK> But this is more fun
[16:09] <Jessica_Lily> if you still think im a guy you're guys look quite feminine
[16:09] <UpuWork> phew lucky Lunar isn't here
[16:09] <Jessica_Lily> he's seen it
[16:09] <UpuWork> you'd have instant boyfriend
[16:09] <UpuWork> unlukey
[16:09] <UpuWork> lucky even
[16:09] <SamSilver> kryptonite
[16:09] <Jessica_Lily> we chatted in PM for hours last night :P
[16:09] <Jessica_Lily> he's seen a ton of pics of me and my desk :P
[16:09] <UpuWork> phone brb
[16:09] <hibby> is that ... creepy?
[16:09] <Jessica_Lily> not like that btw for those who are just being silleh
[16:10] <Jessica_Lily> hibby not really, i openly showed him them :P
[16:10] <hibby> in saying that, my flatmate got his girlfriend from last fm :)
[16:10] <Jessica_Lily> im not going out with him :P
[16:10] <Jessica_Lily> we're just friends, its all me and him will ever be
[16:10] <hibby> I know
[16:10] <hibby> don't woryr
[16:10] <hibby> I'm not accusing you of anything
[16:11] <Jessica_Lily> there is a guy in my local pub & he's <3 :D
[16:11] <UpuWork> lol
[16:11] <UpuWork> was just messing
[16:11] <Jessica_Lily> quite hot guy in starbucks too though nothing compared to the guy in the pub
[16:11] <Jessica_Lily> :P
[16:11] <UpuWork> everyone should have an internet stalker thats all I'm saying
[16:11] <hibby> there's a couple of hot guys in one of the classes i teach. Can't go back to the dark side though ;)
[16:12] <hibby> speaking of which
[16:12] <Jessica_Lily> this is disappointing no one has got my favourite element yet
[16:12] <UpuWork> just on the phone still guess
[16:12] <UpuWork> guessing
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[16:13] <hibby> fsphil-laptop: can you pm me an email address so I can forward you our 'information transmission and security' class slides
[16:13] <hibby> tbh, if I looked through my archive it'll be tehre
[16:13] <hibby> but I'm a lazy motherlover
[16:14] Nick change: mattltm-mobile -> mattltm
[16:14] <UpuWork> ok so not group 1
[16:14] <Jessica_Lily> xD
[16:14] <UpuWork> and covered up so its groups 2-4
[16:14] <Jessica_Lily> fyi the cat isn't covering group one & some random bit of paper or something is :P
[16:14] <Randomskk> or a transition element
[16:14] <AndChat-> ok so err back on topic...
[16:14] <UpuWork> lol
[16:14] <UpuWork> uhoh
[16:15] <UpuWork> been told off :)
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[16:15] <Randomskk> get back to work :P
[16:15] <UpuWork> meh
[16:15] <Randomskk> so, HABs
[16:15] <Randomskk> >_>
[16:15] <hibby> UpuWork: I thought you were the bawss?
[16:15] <UpuWork> I am
[16:16] <hibby> who tells you off then?
[16:16] <UpuWork> and I'm just waiting for bars to go up
[16:16] <Jessica_Lily> yehh habs build from& my favourite element! :D
[16:16] <UpuWork> Randomskk tells me off
[16:16] <Jessica_Lily> nawh that wouldn't work
[16:16] <hibby> hahah
[16:17] <UpuWork> anyway fsphil you back ?
[16:17] <Jessica_Lily> o you people are silly& its vanadium
[16:18] <hibby> oh! vanadium! of course
[16:18] <hibby> :/
[16:18] <UpuWork> theres me thinking its Ununoctium
[16:18] <UpuWork> anyway sorry back to work !
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[16:19] <hibby> Unobtanium is my fave
[16:21] <Jessica_Lily> from avatar?
[16:22] <Zuph> Lots of Sci-fi films use Unobtanium.
[16:22] <Jessica_Lily> xD
[16:22] <hibby> it's a good material
[16:22] <Jessica_Lily> plltxe leNa'vi lì'fya ^_^ :D
[16:22] <hibby> man, I wanna head back to KY...
[16:23] <Jessica_Lily> this water tastes funny
[16:24] <hibby> tell it to taste more seriously then
[16:24] <Jessica_Lily> xD
[16:24] <Jessica_Lily> that made me laugh :P
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[16:25] <hibby> what can I say, I'm the mushroom in a party...
[16:25] <hibby> a fun guy.
[16:25] <Jessica_Lily> yeh i've heard that :P
[16:25] <Jessica_Lily> except you're suppose to just say fungi not fun guy
[16:25] Action: Zuph rolls his eyes.
[16:26] <hibby> i know, but... they sound the same and visually fun guy works better
[16:27] <Jessica_Lily> Two hydrogen atoms are walking down the street, the first says "I think I've lost an electron", the second says "Are you sure", the first replies "Yeh, I'm positive" ^.^
[16:27] <BrainDamage> I'd make an elements joke too, but all the good ones Argon
[16:27] Action: UpuWork sets mode +m
[16:27] <Jessica_Lily> haha :P
[16:27] <hibby> right, I'm away... going to spend MOAR MONIES!
[16:28] <Jessica_Lily> where do chemists wash their pots? In the zinc
[16:28] <Jessica_Lily> :P
[16:28] <BrainDamage> do you know a good chemistry joke? Na
[16:28] <Jessica_Lily> thats great :D
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[16:30] <BrainDamage> http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ljej7roSNl1qgcbpwo1_500.jpg
[16:31] <Jessica_Lily> ahh yeh i've seen that before
[16:31] <Jessica_Lily> its fantastic :P
[16:31] <Randomskk> I lol'd
[16:31] <Jessica_Lily> it made me lol too ^_^
[16:31] <hibby> http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/384066_10150369005554092_506929091_8276014_356356596_n.jpg <== I've gone mental... see what you've all done to me!
[16:31] <Jessica_Lily> haha :P
[16:32] <hibby> that's my movember attempt made from wires ;)
[16:32] <Jessica_Lily> the loop on the left has a spot inside :P its like a ickle nucleus
[16:32] <hibby> it's a mole, thank you very much ;)
[16:32] <Jessica_Lily> xD
[16:33] <Jessica_Lily> +1 for inappropriate comment jess :P
[16:33] <hibby> phh, spots. How old do you think I am?!
[16:33] Action: SpeedEvil passes hibby a mole-trap.
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[16:33] <hibby> lol
[16:34] <hibby> mrs hibby's younger brother actually just got a massive mole cut off. It's pretty crazy, the difference
[16:35] <hibby> right, now that this place is back to normal, I can leave again!
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[17:50] <TimZaman> who's got experience with putting something nice and hot in the payload
[17:51] <BrainDamage> like pics of a movie star?
[17:51] <TimZaman> yeah like sean connery
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[17:53] <TimZaman> like a handwarmer
[17:53] <BrainDamage> if you got stuff that draws a bit current, you could simply use linear regulators
[17:53] <BrainDamage> all the wasted heat will double as warming :p
[17:54] <TimZaman> yeah i tried with a 20ohm resistor right on a lipo
[17:54] <TimZaman> didnt get really hot though
[17:55] <Zuph> TimZaman: Use Sodium Acetate handwarmers.
[17:55] <TimZaman> Zuph: yeah i was just looking into that
[17:56] <TimZaman> Zuph: but does anyone have experience with those
[17:56] <Zuph> They'll be a reusable gell pack with a snap in them. Other warmers require air.
[17:56] <Zuph> TimZaman: I've seen them used on a few latex flights.
[17:56] <SpeedEvil> Batteries are actually better weight/weight
[17:56] <SpeedEvil> IIRC
[17:56] <SpeedEvil> Not cheaper, perhaps.
[17:56] <TimZaman> SpeedEvil: yeah thought so too
[17:56] <TimZaman> SpeedEvil: but i do have enough batteries
[17:57] <TimZaman> too bad i have only 1 way to low resistance wire
[17:57] <TimZaman> even half a meter of that would burn straight through the box
[17:57] <Zuph> If weight isn't a huge issue, it's real easy to toss in one of those hand warmers, but SpeedEvil's right.
[17:57] <TimZaman> o wait a tic
[17:58] <SpeedEvil> Just use any wire.
[17:58] <TimZaman> i just got in last week my laserpointer infrared thermometer
[17:58] <TimZaman> lets try with some small resistors
[17:58] <TimZaman> or LDO's with something on them?:S
[17:58] <SpeedEvil> Those are very inaccurate unless the whole field of view is at a constant temp
[17:58] <BrainDamage> you could use Al foil as heat spreader
[17:59] <TimZaman> BrainDamage: yeah i use that as my groundplane too
[17:59] <BrainDamage> since I guess there's not much convection up there
[17:59] <Zuph> I made a constant current sink to test some batteries. That thing gets toasty :-p
[17:59] <TimZaman> toasty is good
[17:59] <SpeedEvil> TimZaman: Anything. A lightbulb, strip some wire out of a broken motor, ...
[18:00] <TimZaman> ma ballz
[18:00] <TimZaman> couldnt resist
[18:00] <TimZaman> no ladies in hab anyway
[18:03] <TimZaman> oh this feels nice
[18:04] <Zuph> So, how is it that google can give millions of 7gb inboxes away for free, but my fortune 100 employer starts deleting my mail for me after 30 days?
[18:04] <TimZaman> 20 ohm resistor gets untill something like 50C then stays there
[18:08] <SpeedEvil> Zuph: Google uses compression.
[18:08] <Randomskk> also deduplication, everyone gets the same email really :P
[18:08] <SpeedEvil> Zuph: So there is in fact only one copy of every stupid chain email.
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[18:09] <Randomskk> also law of large numbers
[18:09] <Randomskk> almost no one uses anything like 7GB
[18:09] <Upu> lol
[18:09] <Upu> yeah right
[18:09] <Upu> must be just my customers then
[18:09] <Upu> I got one guy with a 21Gb mail box
[18:09] <Randomskk> <:|
[18:09] <Upu> he's a nightmare
[18:10] <Randomskk> sure sounds it
[18:10] <Upu> had to upgrade his Exchange server as the whole mailstore was limited to 75Gb
[18:10] <Randomskk> :/
[18:10] <Upu> and there are 100 employees, Exchange 2010 sucks it up though
[18:10] <Randomskk> heh
[18:10] <Randomskk> s/it up //
[18:11] <Randomskk> >_>
[18:11] <Upu> lol
[18:11] <Upu> far from it
[18:11] <Randomskk> haha yea yea there isn't really anything that bad with it
[18:11] <Randomskk> plus it's not like there's really much better
[18:11] <Randomskk> just these days I'll basically use google apps for anything
[18:11] <Randomskk> setting up a mailserver is quickly not worth it unless you really need your own
[18:11] <Upu> if he wants a 21Gb mail box he needs to pay me lots of money
[18:11] <Upu> so win win
[18:11] <Randomskk> indeed
[18:12] <Upu> that radio board is fun to route and keep on one side
[18:12] <Randomskk> lots of fun :P
[18:12] <Upu> not managed it yet but I'll get there
[18:12] <Upu> I refuse to just blanket copy yours :)
[18:13] <Randomskk> hehe
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[18:20] <zyp> Zuph, your employer keeps an outdated policy from when storage were expensive
[18:24] <Dan-K2VOL> Zuph your IT person is a control freak
[18:28] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL: My IT person is a faceless conglomerate, larger than most companies in and of itself.
[18:29] <Zuph> The tentacled intranet has so many exit points, google thinks I'm in a different city every day.
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[18:47] <SpeedEvil> Zuph: IBM?
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[19:10] <Zuph> SpeedEvil: Honeywell.
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[19:55] <hibby> yaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn
[20:12] <zyp> Zuph, not unlike where I work then
[20:13] <zyp> google always serve me pages in swedish
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[20:46] <Robert_M0RJX> Upu 662.50
[20:46] <Robert_M0RJX> 144
[20:48] <Upu> hey Rob 1 min
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[21:04] <TimZaman> what was the size again of one quarterwave rod of 70cm
[21:04] <TimZaman> 17cm?
[21:05] <BrainDamage> 70cm/4 = 17.5:p
[21:05] <TimZaman> something in my head said 16.7
[21:05] <TimZaman> i must be dementing
[21:06] <TimZaman> does that count for 434mzh?
[21:06] <fsphil-laptop> yea it's a bit lower than 17
[21:06] <TimZaman> because its 434, yeah, it's all comming back to me now. oh no, did it have to do with the copper stuff?
[21:06] <TimZaman> *buildin' a new payload*
[21:07] <NigeyS> wasnt it 16.4 ?
[21:09] <BrainDamage> speed/frequency = wavelenght
[21:10] <BrainDamage> problem is that if dielectric or permettivity constant are not void's, speed is not c, but slower
[21:10] <eroomde> the speed of light is slower in a piece of wire
[21:10] <BrainDamage> so wavelenght is longer
[21:10] <eroomde> you need to know the velocity factor of your wire
[21:10] <eroomde> for random wire, 0.95 is good
[21:11] <eroomde> so ((0.95*c)/Tx_freq)*0.25 is the theoretical length you want
[21:11] <eroomde> the actual optimal length might depend on your radials and stuff
[21:17] <TimZaman> 17cm it is
[21:17] <TimZaman> ;)
[21:18] <TimZaman> it's going to be yet another Heron-tenna http://www.timzaman.nl/?p=1888&preview=true
[21:19] <TimZaman> so i'm going to use 434075 and 434650 next week
[21:19] <TimZaman> the question is though; can i just use 2 seperate wires?
[21:19] <TimZaman> both driving elements 30cm apart?
[21:20] <eroomde> i am not sure putting them 30cm apart is a good idea
[21:20] <TimZaman> why not?
[21:20] <eroomde> i think you will get a lot of mutual coupling between the elements
[21:20] <eroomde> a 2 element yagi, basically
[21:20] <TimZaman> so whats a good idea
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[21:21] <eroomde> >1 wavelength apart at least
[21:21] <eroomde> or maybe right next to each other
[21:21] <TimZaman> 70cm!
[21:21] <TimZaman> using to of them in 1 antenna is a bad idea?
[21:21] <eroomde> i'm not sure how best to mix them and how it works out with grounding
[21:22] <eroomde> best to ask an RF person
[21:22] <TimZaman> dont know any
[21:23] <hibby> oh
[21:23] <hibby> em
[21:23] <eroomde> there you go
[21:23] <TimZaman> RF Pro?
[21:23] <hibby> yagi type antenna with wiring on all elements?
[21:23] <TimZaman> :-)
[21:24] <hibby> let me introduce you to the
[21:24] <hibby> hb9cv antenna
[21:24] <hibby> http://www.mydarc.de/dk7zb/HB9CV/Details-HB9CV.htm
[21:24] <hibby> works on 70cm too
[21:24] <TimZaman> yagi type?
[21:24] <hibby> yeah
[21:24] <hibby> 2el
[21:24] <TimZaman> i have 434650 and 434075 on one payload: how to do that best
[21:24] <hibby> ahum
[21:25] <hibby> different feeds into the same antenna? Could time them effectively?
[21:25] <TimZaman> no i want to dataflows
[21:25] <TimZaman> :)\
[21:25] <hibby> ah
[21:25] <hibby> well, can't have that on the same one
[21:25] <hibby> make sure they're as far apart as possible
[21:26] <TimZaman> not much space on a HAB :P
[21:26] <hibby> indeed
[21:26] <hibby> "as possible"
[21:26] <eroomde> put a 1.5m wide boom across the bottom
[21:26] <hibby> that would work
[21:26] <TimZaman> kinda large
[21:26] <TimZaman> i would have liked to make my payload 24cmx50cm
[21:27] <TimZaman> (bottom plane)
[21:27] <hibby> brain's in mechanical mode at the moment
[21:27] <eroomde> have two anetnnas
[21:27] <hibby> bbl
[21:27] <eroomde> a normal 1/4 wave on the bottom
[21:27] <eroomde> and a bazooka dipole on the top
[21:27] <TimZaman> yeah thats what someone said a few weeks back
[21:27] <TimZaman> but attaching the bazooka, not easy?
[21:27] <eroomde> possibly me. i like bazooka dipoles
[21:27] <eroomde> oh it's pretty easy
[21:28] <eroomde> it's just a length of coax
[21:28] <TimZaman> got a tut?
[21:28] <eroomde> with a connector on one end, and a careful folding back of the sheath on the other end
[21:28] <eroomde> we flew them on our parachute drop test vehicle as we couldn't have sticky-out-bits like radials
[21:29] <eroomde> TimZaman: http://www.iw5edi.com/ham-radio/?the-vertical-bazooka-antenna,18
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[21:32] <TimZaman> eroomde: what do you think of this
[21:32] <TimZaman> http://nl.farnell.com/pulse-engineering/w3127/antenna-helical-pcb-433mhz/dp/1900066
[21:33] <eroomde> looks good when space is tight
[21:33] <eroomde> but notice the gain
[21:33] <TimZaman> friggin minus
[21:33] <eroomde> -2.9dBi
[21:34] <eroomde> that's half the power of an isotropic source, and probably 1/4 the power of a 1/4 wave
[21:34] <TimZaman> still plenty when you're driving underneath the balloon
[21:34] <TimZaman> on 50 baud
[21:34] <eroomde> yes very likely
[21:34] <TimZaman> this one looks kinda awesome
[21:35] <TimZaman> http://nl.farnell.com/rw-badland/pu-bnc-433/antenna-helical-bnc/dp/1201005
[21:35] <eroomde> nice raidation pattern
[21:35] <griffonbot> Received email: Howard Smith "[UKHAS] CHDK advice"
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[21:36] <TimZaman> i keep saying this, but what willing american would like to set up a very small kickstarter.com project for me
[21:37] <TimZaman> you can keep half the cash, whatever you like.
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[21:38] <TimZaman> eroomde: why would i fold the shield back? and not cut it
[21:39] <eroomde> because that acts as the other half of the dipole
[21:39] <TimZaman> folding back is not so easy though
[21:39] <eroomde> it's not a nice to have
[21:39] <eroomde> it's integral to how the antenna works
[21:39] <TimZaman> yeah i get it
[21:40] <TimZaman> do you have pics of how yours looked?
[21:40] <eroomde> the sheath around the inner element is like a 1:1 trnasformer
[21:40] <TimZaman> practical things, like keeping it straight on a hab?
[21:40] <eroomde> so at the point where the split and the sheath starts going back, it transmits a mirror image of what's going doin the exposed inner core - just like a dipole
[21:40] <eroomde> not sure i have pics
[21:41] <eroomde> but all i did was carefully strip the sheath off, bunch up the outer conductor like a chinese finger trap when it is loose, and roll it back down in the other direction
[21:41] <eroomde> then heatshrink over the whole thing
[21:41] <eroomde> TimZaman: keeping it straight can be done in any number of ways. drinking straw, hosepipe, a bit of foam, whatever you normally do
[21:41] <TimZaman> heatshrinking, smart.
[21:42] <TimZaman> its pretty small
[21:42] <eroomde> yeah the heatshrink helps keep it protected and robust
[21:42] <TimZaman> the whole thing comes in at 50cm or something
[21:42] <Laurenceb_> the teoglas antennas look good
[21:43] <TimZaman> eroomde: did you measure all the velocities and bla bla?
[21:43] <eroomde> i tuned it with an SWR meter
[21:43] <eroomde> i kept the inner core intentionally too long by about 10mm then made measurements with the swr meter, gradually tripping it back mm by mm
[21:44] <eroomde> trimming*
[21:44] <eroomde> but that only makes a dB's difference really - not actually that much
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[22:03] <SpeedEvil> Doesn't the SWR meter assume it's perfectly matched at the transmitter too?
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[22:30] Action: NigeyS sings
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> yay
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> hi NigeyS
[22:30] <NigeyS> "it must be love..love..love...duh duh..duh duh..."
[22:30] <NigeyS> hey kev
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
[22:31] <NigeyS> im good ta, you ?
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> me too, thanks
[22:31] <NigeyS> ping eroomde
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[22:40] Nick change: abbo -> gap_
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[22:41] Nick change: Jeff_ -> Guest76294
[22:42] <Guest76294> Hi all
[22:43] <Upu> evening
[22:43] <TimZaman> someone name a nice small led/resistor size
[22:44] <TimZaman> 0603?
[22:44] <Upu> 0603 is doable
[22:44] <TimZaman> i've got 1208 of everything
[22:44] <Laurenceb_> 0402 is where its at
[22:44] <TimZaman> but downsizing is nice
[22:44] <TimZaman> 0402 its where i need my microscope
[22:44] <Laurenceb_> ive hand soldered 0201 before
[22:44] <TimZaman> lol
[22:44] <Darkside> 0603 is fine to do by hand
[22:44] <Darkside> without a microscope
[22:44] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: you're a crazy person
[22:45] <Guest76294> I looking at the different types of antenna to track my balloon. Am i correct in thinking that I would need a yagi with about 12dB gain?
[22:45] <TimZaman> i have a hotair thingy
[22:45] <Laurenceb_> yeah but my fingernails are rather thermally conductive
[22:45] <Laurenceb_> usually i pin things in place with a fingernail
[22:45] <TimZaman> Guest76294: no a whip will do
[22:45] <Laurenceb_> it can be rather painful XD
[22:45] <Darkside> Guest76294: actually a 1/4 wave monopole works fine
[22:45] <Darkside> Guest76294: when it gets far away, then a yagi is useful
[22:45] <TimZaman> TimZaman: on 50 baud, i've used a simple whip magnetic mount antenna $10 ebay that worked well.
[22:46] <TimZaman> \What Darkside says.
[22:46] <Upu> Guest76294 yeah from the ground anything really even the rubber antenna that comes with the radio, you on about tracking from a car or a base ?
[22:46] <TimZaman> Darkside: thanks for tracking last week by the way, appreciate it!
[22:46] <Guest76294> We will be tracking using a car
[22:46] <TimZaman> so, Upu, Laurenceb, nice size? 0603?
[22:46] <TimZaman> i think 1208 is a bit too Duplo for me
[22:47] <Upu> my boards are all being designed round 0603
[22:47] <Laurenceb_> 0603 is pretty easy
[22:48] <Upu> makes your boards neater
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[22:48] <TimZaman> yeah thought so. i'll take that as a new standard.
[22:48] <griffonbot> Received email: Howard Smith "[UKHAS] My first CHDK script"
[22:48] <Guest76294> Can anyone recomend an antenna they have used which has worked well?
[22:48] <TimZaman> too bad though, had 8 types of leds and all the general resistors in 1208 already :)
[22:49] <TimZaman> Guest76294: for yagi, the Diamond 11el 70cm antenna is nice, otherwise, any 434mhz whip will do i guess (eBay?)
[22:49] <Darkside> Guest76294: for in the car, get any old magbase antenna and just put a 1/4 wave whip on it
[22:49] <Darkside> when i was in the UK for a few weeks, i bought a 'taxi' magbase from maplins, and just cut down the antenna that came with it
[22:50] <NigeyS> he literally cut it down to!
[22:50] <NigeyS> my poor hacksaw..lol
[22:50] <TimZaman> how do you guys organize your SMD parts
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[22:50] <Darkside> TimZaman: i keep them in the bags they came in lol
[22:50] <TimZaman> Darkside: you crazy.
[22:51] <Darkside> well, i get most of my parts from farnell, and they come in nicely labelled bafgs
[22:51] <Upu> Also crazy then :)
[22:51] <NigeyS> lol
[22:51] <Darkside> wha
[22:51] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] My first CHDK script"
[22:51] <TimZaman> Darkside: yeah i order a lot of stuff there too, but i never had a bag that was reclosable
[22:51] <Darkside> i get 20% discount from farnell
[22:51] <NigeyS> through hole ftw :p
[22:51] <Darkside> NigeyS: piss off
[22:51] <TimZaman> Darkside: sweet, why?
[22:51] <NigeyS> lmao
[22:51] <Darkside> TimZaman: magic
[22:52] <Darkside> (educational discount, also get free shipping)
[22:52] <NigeyS> git!
[22:52] <TimZaman> Darkside: to top you off, anything i buy at farnell i dont pay at all.
[22:52] <Darkside> sexual favours^W^W
[22:52] <NigeyS> rofl
[22:52] <Upu> I'm told once you go surface mount you never go back
[22:52] <NigeyS> TimZaman, that's called credit card fraud :p lol
[22:52] <Guest76294> how you send a message to a specific person?
[22:52] <Upu> Darkside you wouldn't get 20% for that chortle here all night
[22:52] <TimZaman> TimZaman: that's called budget
[22:52] <Upu> Guest76294 double click their name
[22:52] <NigeyS> TimZaman, meh no fair lol
[22:53] <Upu> or just type /query Darkside Whotcha
[22:53] <Darkside> pff
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[22:55] <Darkside> hrmm
[22:56] <Darkside> should probably start getting ready to go into uni..
[22:59] <TimZaman> what does "swg" stand for?
[22:59] <jonsowman> standard wire gauge
[22:59] <TimZaman> something to do with wires
[22:59] <Upu> standard wire gauge
[22:59] <Upu> meh beaten
[22:59] <TimZaman> gauge=thickness|?
[22:59] <Upu> american standard I think
[22:59] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] CHDK advice"
[23:00] <jonsowman> Upu: isn't that AWG?
[23:00] <Upu> aye probably
[23:00] <jonsowman> TimZaman: http://www.clag.org.uk/swg.html
[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> "Ava High Altitude Balloon Project
[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> Home of the worlds best all pink payload"
[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> XD!
[23:02] <Upu> tis me
[23:02] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:02] <Lunar_Lander> I love the title
[23:02] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[23:04] <Darkside> we need to start covering out payoads in yellow or green duct tape
[23:04] <Darkside> but they theyg et heavier...
[23:04] <Upu> doesn't add that much and makes them alot stronger
[23:05] <Upu> not for pico flights
[23:05] <Upu> but for full fat ones
[23:05] <NigeyS> for semi skimmed?
[23:05] <Darkside> bah, our payloads survive fine :P
[23:05] <Darkside> even our 'death from above' aprs payload survived
[23:05] <Darkside> (brass rod for antennas)
[23:06] <Upu> lol
[23:06] <Darkside> it also got dragged across a wheat field for about 20m
[23:06] <NigeyS> lol
[23:06] <Upu> I prefer making my own especially as you can compartmentalise it so nothing moves
[23:07] <Darkside> oh, ours are custom made, by juxta
[23:08] <juxta> with love
[23:08] <Guest76294> what sort of gain would i need my antenna to be?
[23:08] <Darkside> Guest76294: yagi?
[23:08] <Guest76294> yes
[23:08] <Darkside> i'm not sure abotu the gai, but a 5-element yagi works nicely, and can be easily hand-held
[23:08] <Darkside> get whatever you can afforc
[23:08] <Darkside> to be honest, if you're chasing it in a car, you will probably only need the yagi right when it lands
[23:09] <Upu> anyway I'm off night all
[23:09] <Darkside> and you'll be able to get data right up to a few hundred metres altitude with the 1/4 wave monopole on the roof
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[23:09] <Lunar_Lander> I got a stupid question
[23:09] <Lunar_Lander> suppose someone with a virus programs arduino
[23:09] <Darkside> Lunar_Lander: no.
[23:09] <juxta> Lunar_Lander, no
[23:09] <Darkside> unless its a very very smart virus
[23:09] <Darkside> like stuxnet!
[23:09] <Lunar_Lander> good
[23:09] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:09] <fsphil-laptop> no++
[23:09] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[23:10] <Darkside> someone needs to make that virus
[23:10] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:10] <NigeyS> fsphil-laptop, haha good 1 :p
[23:10] <Lunar_Lander> I mean I read a similar question on the Kaspersky forums
[23:10] <Lunar_Lander> a guy asked
[23:10] <Darkside> Lunar_Lander: there are no stupid questions, only stupid people
[23:10] <Lunar_Lander> if someone makes an audio CD, can the CD infect the CD player?
[23:10] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:10] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[23:10] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[23:10] <fsphil-laptop> My first computer virus was on the amiga
[23:11] <Darkside> fsphil-laptop: was it like this? http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=strong%20bad%20virus&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCYQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.homestarrunner.com%2Fsbemail118.html&ei=I6DBTvn_MYSUiAfv4NSlBQ&usg=AFQjCNF-fsBewvM6QdcYBCuhydRAuITnOw
[23:11] <Darkside> stupid google
[23:12] <Darkside> ert+
[23:12] <Darkside> y76p!
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[23:16] <fsphil-laptop> haha, that's brilliant
[23:16] <Darkside> classic strong bad
[23:16] <fsphil-laptop> been a long time since I was on that site, must go through it see what's new
[23:17] <Darkside> heh
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[00:00] --- Tue Nov 15 2011