[00:00] <Wil5on> Darkside, MHV says great video
[00:00] <Darkside> MHV?
[00:00] <Darkside> what is the canberra hackerspace irc channel?
[00:00] <Darkside> and is it on freenode
[00:03] <Wil5on> you got it
[00:09] <Lunar_Lander> xD is Upu still there?
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[00:23] <Lunar_Lander> is anybody still on the keyboards?
[00:24] <Lunar_Lander> rjharrison, ?
[00:24] <Darkside> mm
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[00:34] <SpeedEvil> Lunar_Lander:
[00:34] <SpeedEvil> oh
[00:34] <SpeedEvil> ot there
[00:34] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[00:35] <Lunar_Lander> the BBC footage shows how much balloon remains trailing
[00:41] <NigeyS> http://www.flickr.com/photos/nigeys/6330630862/in/photostream
[00:42] <NigeyS> Bojangles says hi :)
[00:49] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[00:49] <Lunar_Lander> wb NigeyS
[00:49] <NigeyS> ty :)
[00:49] <NigeyS> off again in a min, need an early night
[00:49] <Lunar_Lander> yeah me too
[00:49] <Lunar_Lander> only just watched the Man Lab thing
[00:50] <NigeyS> :)
[00:50] <Lunar_Lander> I didn't know that the whole thing was about deploying ashes
[00:50] <Lunar_Lander> also I think that James found the end of the payload train before that Hydrogen guy made his way through the field
[00:52] <NigeyS> yip
[00:53] <Lunar_Lander> that guy
[00:53] <Lunar_Lander> I don't know
[00:53] <Lunar_Lander> just made it too hazardous
[00:56] <NigeyS> meh bed time, nn peeps :)
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[00:57] <Lunar_Lander> good night!
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[07:40] <eroomde> morning anyone who's up
[07:40] <number10> morning
[07:41] <number10> are you off to cambs for james launch on fri?
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[07:57] <eroomde> number10: nope
[07:57] <eroomde> i'll be at work :)
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[08:02] <UpuWork> morning
[08:07] <number10> morning
[08:08] <number10> daveake - that pole you had seemed to pack down quite short - do you have a link handy?
[08:09] <daveake> I often get asked that .... :p
[08:09] <daveake> justamo ...
[08:09] <number10> :)
[08:10] <daveake> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120581239659&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:GB:1123#ht_850wt_1163
[08:10] <number10> thanks
[08:13] <number10> my lateral thinking was not that good - I insisted on seaching for antenna pole
[08:13] <UpuWork> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10M-FIBRE-GLASS-TELESCOPIC-ANTENNA-POLE-/300621627773?pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_SpecialistRadioEquipment_SM&hash=item45fe72017d
[08:13] <UpuWork> *** You are buying the Antenna Pole and not my wife (also shown in picture) ***
[08:14] <number10> lol - those ones are quite thin at the end
[08:18] <number10> thats more money spent
[08:20] <daveake> lol
[08:21] <daveake> That one looks like mine (the rod, not the wife)
[08:23] <number10> is the top end only 3mm on your one
[08:26] <number10> bought a netbook a couple of days ago - more money - had to get one with HDMI - as I told Mrs#10 that we could use it to watch I-player on the TV - so it cost a bundle
[08:27] <daveake> :)
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[08:36] <daveake> number10 Yes, mine is 3mm at the tip ...
[08:37] <number10> ta
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[08:51] <number10> mind you - I think I have saved some money - I spotted a hotwire cutter in one of the labs here
[08:53] <daveake> :)
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[09:20] <fsphil> I'd like to get a telescopic pole for putting the yagi on top
[09:20] <fsphil> those fishing ones are just too wobbly
[09:20] <daveake> yeah
[09:21] <fsphil> something like a painters pole
[09:30] <nosebleedKT> hi al
[09:32] <fsphil> mornin nosebleedKT
[09:35] <fsphil> 2 hours in and someone is already "touching base" and someone else is "going forward"... is this bad buzzword day and nobody told me?
[09:36] <daveake> Tell them you're applying "Blue Sky Thinking" to your HAB project ...
[09:37] <Darkside> pff
[09:37] <Darkside> OH MAN
[09:37] <Darkside> not going to have time
[09:37] <Darkside> crap
[09:37] <Darkside> mechanism to flip book while attached to a balloon
[09:37] <Darkside> at 33km altiude
[09:37] <Darkside> no time, no money, NOT GOING TO HAPPEN
[09:37] <GW8RAK> fsphil,
[09:37] <fsphil> "wind"
[09:37] <Darkside> ack
[09:37] <Darkside> wrong channel
[09:38] <GW8RAK> shouldn't have hit return then. fsphil, have a look at Roger's site, MW0IDX.co.uk. He was an early SOTA person and has some good ideas for lightweight beams and masts.
[09:38] <GW8RAK> If you use a fishing pole with the top sections removed, they can be quite stiff.
[09:39] <fsphil> aah
[09:39] <fsphil> so I might get 7m out of it, rather than 10
[09:40] <fsphil> that's still good
[09:40] <GW8RAK> That's how I've used mine. Only use the top 2 sections when on HF
[09:41] <GW8RAK> the 70cm quad looks good
[09:46] <fsphil> thinking it would be good to get my 2m yagi up high, it's quite light
[09:47] <GW8RAK> Best portable mast is a clansman 5.8m one from ebay. 6 1m sections with all rigging kit. Will stand up to any wind conditions
[09:47] <GW8RAK> from £25
[09:47] <fsphil> that's not bad
[09:49] <GW8RAK> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CLANSMAN-MILITARY-5-4mt-LIGHTWEIGHT-MAST-KIT-COMPLETE-/310356480992?pt=UK_Collectables_Militaria_LE&hash=item4842b013e0 is the thing, but you will find them cheaper
[09:52] <fsphil> that seller is quite explicit in not listing NI as a delivery destination :)
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[10:21] <GW8RAK> fsphil, it's a case of just keeping your eyes open.
[10:21] <GW8RAK> I went to the guys who were disposing of the clansman radio equipment 3 years ago and they had hundreds of new unissued masts for £15 IIRC.
[10:22] <GW8RAK> If I'd known, I'd have bought more than 4
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[10:25] <fsphil> oh I will
[10:26] <fsphil> should be no problem getting one here
[10:26] <fsphil> holy crap, I have a notam
[10:26] <WillDuckworth> blimey
[10:29] <fsphil> um
[10:29] <fsphil> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=5d3b4749088c18c2c9e77102a4f71b136d22b124
[10:30] <fsphil> and sunday, http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=b8bde3c6dcc2d53181438a1e239b154e7b6fdab2
[10:30] <Darkside> also we're launching on sunday guys
[10:31] <fsphil> well unless the winds change, I'm not :)
[10:31] <fsphil> what you sending up Darkside?
[10:31] <Darkside> video payload, ublox 6 test
[10:31] <Darkside> so video + 2 telemetry payloads
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[10:32] <mattltm> fsphil: YAY! Congrats on the NOTAM :)
[10:34] <fsphil> that may be the longest 28 days in the history of the CAA :)
[10:35] <fsphil> now I just need the weather to behave
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[10:35] Nick change: GW8RAK_ -> GW8RAK
[10:35] <mattltm> Good luck with that!
[10:36] <fsphil> if it stays like this for the next month I may scream! Then book a flight to Cambridge
[10:36] <mattltm> lol.
[10:39] <NigelMoby> A notam? No, sorry, those are things of myth and legend.
[10:39] <fsphil> I had to battle fire breathing administrators to get one
[10:41] <NigelMoby> Did you use excalibur?
[10:41] <fsphil> nah, thunderbird :)
[10:41] <NigelMoby> Lol
[10:41] <mattltm> lol.
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[11:10] <fsphil> he still hasn't emailed me yet, I only know cause it's on the notaminfo site
[11:28] <SamSilver> fsphil: how goes it with the name change thing?
[11:28] <fsphil> Gonna take a while getting used to people calling me Dave
[11:28] <SamSilver> are you not changing your name to David McPhil?
[11:32] <x-f> wasn't O' for Irish and Mc for Scottish people?
[11:38] <SamSilver> Mac for Scottish way back but then and Mc was more Irish long time ago ... well that is what I was told and I am a "Mc"
[11:39] <fsphil> O' isn't very common here
[11:39] <fsphil> in NI at least
[11:44] Nick change: SamSilver -> SamSilver_
[11:44] <SamSilver_> bbl
[11:47] <fsphil> don't know any Mac's either, but plenty of Mc
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[12:44] <TimZaman> fsphil: got a notam?
[12:47] <fsphil> TimZaman, do indeed! pdf just arrived in my inbox
[12:48] <TimZaman> okay cool
[12:48] <TimZaman> whats the launch? and whats the window
[12:48] <fsphil> five weekends, starting saturday
[12:48] <fsphil> I'll be launching two
[12:48] <TimZaman> !
[12:49] <SpeedEvil> Energetic.
[12:49] <TimZaman> lets hope for no splashdown
[12:49] <fsphil> indeed
[12:49] Action: SpeedEvil wonders if 2/5 launch windows are usually dry.
[12:53] <TimZaman> im launching on 25nov probably
[12:58] <TimZaman> just ordered a backupballoon with steve
[13:04] <fsphil> back
[13:04] <fsphil> ooh, space camera 3?
[13:05] <fsphil> I'm hoping one of my launches floats, so it might splash down
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[13:06] <TimZaman> fsphil: Yeah but no "Live"
[13:06] <fsphil> aah
[13:06] <TimZaman> simple sensory camera launch
[13:07] <TimZaman> with some of my last stuff
[13:07] <fsphil> where you able to find out why the last one stopped transmitting data?
[13:07] <TimZaman> and then maybe after that i'll do a last big one with a dslr floater
[13:07] <TimZaman> fsphil: no. cant figure out which logs to look in either for that
[13:08] <TimZaman> what is surprising, is that in the last picture it took the camera (and payload) was orientied entirely horizontal
[13:08] <TimZaman> http://www.timzaman.nl/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/193455raw.jpeg
[13:09] <fsphil> some bad turbulence maybe
[13:09] <TimZaman> yeah but still
[13:09] <TimZaman> that doesnt say why the GPS and the camera and processes stopped
[13:09] <TimZaman> and why it didnt reboot after 3hrs
[13:10] <fsphil> yea - it's all working again now?
[13:11] <TimZaman> didnt check yet
[13:12] <TimZaman> but the pictures eh
[13:12] <TimZaman> A+ quality
[13:13] <TimZaman> This is what i call exposure value mastery http://www.timzaman.nl/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/190156raw.jpeg
[13:13] <fsphil> the usb tethering worked very well
[13:13] <TimZaman> USB tethering?
[13:13] <fsphil> grabbing the pictures via usb
[13:13] <TimZaman> from where?
[13:14] <TimZaman> but phil, what was weird.. when we looked at the image then on the ssdv page, they looked weird
[13:14] <TimZaman> but if i look now.. there are no incomplete images, haha!
[13:15] <TimZaman> awesome *"Receivers: PA3WEG, PA1MP, Dutch-Mill, PD4TA, Darkside, PA3HK"*
[13:15] <fsphil> I saw that when I looked at the page over my 3G dongle
[13:15] <fsphil> but when I got home, they where complete
[13:15] <TimZaman> no idea how darkside pulled that off
[13:15] <fsphil> globaltuners :)
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[13:15] <TimZaman> exactly;no idea what that is
[13:17] <fsphil> he used a radio in holland, via the internet
[13:18] <TimZaman> i get it, but remarkable that the quality was good enough
[13:18] <fsphil> I'm going to change the page so it changes the image name when it gets updated, so it will never shows a cached version of the old copy
[13:18] <fsphil> yea, esp. 600 baud!
[13:18] <fsphil> considering it's compressed with mp3
[13:19] <TimZaman> yep pretty awesome
[13:19] <TimZaman> 1200baud would have work as well
[13:19] <TimZaman> Still, we could use a faster transmissinmethod
[13:20] <fsphil> with more power it could be made much faster
[13:20] <TimZaman> with which method then
[13:21] <fsphil> mfsk
[13:21] <fsphil> basically more than 2 frequencies
[13:21] <fsphil> use four, at 600 baud. gives an effective rate of 1200
[13:21] <fsphil> but more sensitive to noise
[13:22] <SpeedEvil> In principle, FEC can bring you back to the positive - noisewise.
[13:22] <SpeedEvil> But...
[13:22] <fsphil> indeed
[13:23] <fsphil> the limit seems to be more bandwidth of the receiver than the noise level, so it should work well
[13:23] <SpeedEvil> FEC, girls, drink.
[13:23] <fsphil> just means making a decent demodulator
[13:23] <fsphil> the fldigi one doesn't do AFC
[13:24] <SpeedEvil> You mean for msk?
[13:24] <fsphil> yea
[13:24] <SpeedEvil> Oh - the AFC for rtty was hacked in by 'us' wasn't it.
[13:24] <fsphil> nah, that is part of upstream
[13:24] <fsphil> it and the psk modes get afc
[13:24] <fsphil> we added the bit that retunes the radio if the afc goes out of bounds
[13:29] <TimZaman> okay
[13:29] <TimZaman> lets say i want 2400 baud. We all know we can do 1200 baud.
[13:29] <TimZaman> What would be easiest to get to 2400bd
[13:31] <fsphil> AFSK probably, using FM instead of SSB
[13:31] <fsphil> but range would be very short
[13:31] <fsphil> without big antennas on the ground
[13:31] <TimZaman> hmm
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[13:32] <fsphil> or if you can find a PSK module, instead of FSK, I'd say 2000 baud would be possible with the current setup
[13:32] <fsphil> tuning would be tight though, same as 1200 baud fsk
[13:37] <TimZaman> hmm
[13:38] <fsphil> either way it's tricky.
[13:38] <TimZaman> what about the 1Watt XBEE's that natrium used
[13:38] <TimZaman> i know, yeah yeah they are not allowed here
[13:38] <TimZaman> but how do they work
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[13:39] <fsphil> they are probably similar to the ntx2, but with extra circuits so you don't see the radio bit
[13:40] <fsphil> put in serial data one end, it comes out the other end as serial
[13:40] <NigelMoby> hmm wonder who that dude was at radiometrix
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[13:48] <fsphil> I'm debating using 600 baud for the next flight :)
[13:48] <fsphil> I like that lots of people can receive the 300 baud one
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[13:48] <TimZaman> 50 baud for the win
[13:48] <fsphil> lol
[13:49] <TimZaman> 600baud for text is kinda ludacris
[13:49] <Laurenceb> bluetooth has decided to break _again_
[13:49] <NigelMoby> Uhoh
[13:49] <fsphil> it will be ssdv, with 50 baud backup (also with Hellschreiber (sp?))
[13:49] <Laurenceb> sudo hcitool dev Devices:
[13:49] <Laurenceb> ^?!?
[13:49] <gonzo__> /msg ChanServ REGISTER #atheme
[13:50] <TimZaman> fsphil: oh come on use 600bd for ssdv
[13:50] <gonzo__> /msg ChanServ REGISTER gonzo_
[13:50] <TimZaman> good luck with your atmega btw
[13:50] <fsphil> 600 -- probably will to be honest
[13:50] <TimZaman> still waiting for the pandaboard.. ordered that first week of september :S
[13:50] <TimZaman> i liked the image size as well i used this time
[13:50] <TimZaman> 320x240?
[13:50] <TimZaman> didnt you use that too?
[13:50] <fsphil> yea, that's what I did last time too
[13:51] <TimZaman> i took pictures in 1600x1200, which scales down nicely to 320x240
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[13:51] <TimZaman> but phil, cant you make the packets bn
[13:51] <TimZaman> igger
[13:52] <TimZaman> is there an advantage in that?
[13:52] <fsphil> not really
[13:53] <fsphil> slightly reduce the overhead of the packets
[13:53] <fsphil> but a lost packet would take out more of the image
[13:53] <NigelMoby> compression?
[13:54] <fsphil> bigger packet would contain more of the image
[13:54] <TimZaman> oh wel
[13:54] <TimZaman> yeah fsphil i would love it if the quality can be adjusted
[13:54] <fsphil> that's my next job TimZaman
[13:54] <fsphil> 16 quality levels
[13:54] <TimZaman> this is fair
[13:54] <TimZaman> http://www.sanslogic.co.uk/ssdv/images/2011-11-07--12-45-27-PD4TA-13.jpeg
[13:54] <TimZaman> but would be better
[13:55] <fsphil> the sky is very blocky
[13:55] <TimZaman> it only needs to be just a *bit* better
[13:55] <TimZaman> what was the compression again? 4:2:0?
[13:55] Nick change: gonzo__ -> gonzo_
[13:56] <fsphil> I believe it's the equivalent to 45% in photoshop. the colour sub sampling is 4:2:0
[13:56] <TimZaman> 45%!?! ahaha that sucks
[13:57] <TimZaman> 70% would be ideal
[13:57] <fsphil> 60 even
[13:57] <fsphil> but yea, it'll be selectable
[13:57] <TimZaman> yep
[13:57] <SpeedEvil> Blocky is a straight tradeoff for bigger images.
[13:58] <fsphil> yea, jpeg's big flaw
[13:59] <TimZaman> oh well, cant whine. they're like what, 1kb?
[13:59] <TimZaman> 2kb.
[13:59] <TimZaman> ok 3kb.
[13:59] <fsphil> though I think it's more blocky than it needs to be. the code that 're quantises' it is very simple
[14:01] <SpeedEvil> Take a 'good' image, and try playing with it on various sizes and quality settings.
[14:02] <SpeedEvil> If you think you find a nice way to do it with tols that can run on the gumstix, ...
[14:02] <fsphil> actually, TimZaman you have the originals
[14:02] <TimZaman> fsphil: yep
[14:02] <fsphil> can you scale an original to 320x240, and compress it so that it's the same size as the ssdv version
[14:02] <TimZaman> they're on the website @ Space Camera Live 2
[14:02] <fsphil> see if it's as blocky
[14:02] <TimZaman> im not on win (photoshop).
[14:03] <TimZaman> can try with gimp though
[14:03] <fsphil> yea, should be the same result
[14:03] <fsphil> might actually be better
[14:03] <fsphil> when you save it, don't use the optimise option
[14:11] <TimZaman> then in what quality
[14:11] <TimZaman> i get it
[14:11] <TimZaman> sorry
[14:12] <fsphil> yea, it should show the size as you slide it
[14:13] <TimZaman> no its got loads of exif info in its head for one
[14:13] <TimZaman> also, gimp sucks
[14:13] <TimZaman> so i cant even get it below 3kb
[14:13] <TimZaman> at 0% its still 3kb
[14:13] <fsphil> you can switch that odd
[14:14] <fsphil> off
[14:14] <SpeedEvil> exiftool
[14:14] <fsphil> there's a checkbox for it somewhere on the save as dialog
[14:14] <SpeedEvil> Also - cjpeg
[14:15] <TimZaman> done
[14:15] <TimZaman> worked
[14:15] <TimZaman> now comparing it
[14:15] <TimZaman> both 3.2kb..
[14:15] <TimZaman> the blocks are twice as small in the gimp image
[14:16] <TimZaman> which results in higher accuracy
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[14:16] <fsphil> interesting
[14:16] <fsphil> I wonder what it's doing differently
[14:16] <fsphil> can you upload them both?
[14:16] <TimZaman> ye
[14:16] <TimZaman> they're in your mail
[14:16] <fsphil> was the image 4:2:0?
[14:16] <TimZaman> duhhh
[14:16] <TimZaman> beats me
[14:16] <TimZaman> never use gimp
[14:16] <fsphil> lol
[14:17] <fsphil> I'll check
[14:17] <fsphil> but yea, it does look better
[14:18] <fsphil> yea, 4:2:0
[14:20] <fsphil> I'll take a closer look at that tonight
[14:22] <TimZaman> k
[14:23] <SpeedEvil> Have you considered progressive images?
[14:23] <SpeedEvil> Actually - errored blocks would be much worse
[14:23] <fsphil> yea
[14:23] <fsphil> considered that at the start
[14:43] <NigelMoby> Hm
[14:44] <NigelMoby> where is griffinbot?
[14:57] <WillDuckworth> not been around for a while has he - no tweets or email notifications
[15:01] <Upu> oh wai...
[15:09] <jonsowman> that should have worked
[15:09] <jonsowman> zeusbot is dead too it seems
[15:09] <jonsowman> interesting
[15:10] <fsphil> it's not dead, it's just a flesh wound
[15:10] <jonsowman> haha
[15:10] <jonsowman> fsphil: do you have root access to kraken?
[15:11] <fsphil> I'm not sure I'm setup on kraken
[15:11] <fsphil> lemme try
[15:12] <jonsowman> i need my password resetting, it was generated as something random and I didn't write it down
[15:12] <jonsowman> so i can ssh in (with keys) but can't sudo
[15:12] <fsphil> oh I am
[15:12] <jonsowman> would you mind changing my password and PM'ing it to me please?
[15:13] <fsphil> sudo passwd jon yea?
[15:13] <jonsowman> yep
[15:13] <fsphil> I'll give you a random code, you can change it afterwards
[15:13] <jonsowman> that's great, thanks
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[15:17] Action: griffonbot is GriffonBot [http://github.com/ssb/griffonbot]
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[15:17] Action: griffonbot is tracking emails sent to ukhas@googlegroups.com
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[15:21] <Laurenceb> Randomskk: ping
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[16:24] <TimZaman> fsphil: my payload seems to work perfectly..
[16:24] <TimZaman> after how much time did it crash?
[16:25] <WillDuckworth> hey TimZaman - did you see my mail to the group about the rtty library - hope you don't mind :)
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[16:29] <Jessica_Lily> Hey folks!
[16:30] <fsphil> last line was 14:06:14 TimZaman
[16:31] <fsphil> first was 13:25:46
[16:32] <fsphil> about 41 minutes
[16:32] <fsphil> hiya Jessica_Lily
[16:33] <Jessica_Lily> I'm interested in making my own system, I'm planning on going higher than so far has been achieved im considering how best to do this really& as i think the limits on balloon stretchyness are too big of an issue
[16:33] <fsphil> + whatever time it was on the ground
[16:34] <fsphil> that's quite a goal Jessica_Lily :)
[16:34] <Jessica_Lily> possibly a micro-controller which operates an electronic valve of some description im not too sure, I thought i'd mention it here
[16:34] <Jessica_Lily> possibly see if any of you guys had some thoughts
[16:35] <fsphil> a valve to release gas?
[16:35] <Jessica_Lily> yep
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[16:36] <fsphil> iirc there was some discussion about using a valve to release enough gas with the aim of floating
[16:36] <Jessica_Lily> I am planning on doing something slightly more dangerous and different from most setups i've seen urm I think i'll be okay as im a chemist and use to dealing with this stuff but i plan on using hydrogen instead
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[16:36] <Jessica_Lily> the main reason is its easy to get hold of& I can make my own using water& electrolysis and a simple catalyst like MgSO4 or sulphuric acid
[16:37] <SpeedEvil> Natural gas is easy, if you're in the UK.
[16:37] <Jessica_Lily> i am :P
[16:37] <fsphil> natural gas wouldn't be too useful for going after altitude records
[16:38] <SpeedEvil> Well - no.
[16:38] <Jessica_Lily> i can't see a reason why it wouldn't?
[16:38] <Jessica_Lily> granted hydrogens dencity is low to start with
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[16:38] <SpeedEvil> Electrolysis isn't completely easy - you need the right electrodes, which can be annoying
[16:39] <Jessica_Lily> im a chemist :P just thought i'd mention it&
[16:39] <fsphil> the current record is about 41.6km, using an H2 filled latex balloon
[16:39] <SpeedEvil> Fair enough.
[16:39] <SpeedEvil> I'm a labrador.
[16:40] <SpeedEvil> But if you get the H2 dry, it's fine.
[16:40] Action: BrainDamage ruffles SpeedEvil's ears
[16:40] <Jessica_Lily> im far from saying i know it all :P i don't& I'm just saying i've done electrolysis a fair amount
[16:40] <fsphil> lol
[16:40] <SpeedEvil> A balloon filled with H2, with no O2!!!!!!! is quite safe, and boring.
[16:40] <fsphil> How quickly could you prodce enough to fill a balloon Jessica_Lily?
[16:40] <SpeedEvil> The worst case is basically a .5s bonfire, plus a flaming balloon thrown a few tens of metres.
[16:40] <fsphil> produce*
[16:40] <BrainDamage> you just use a crapload of current
[16:40] <BrainDamage> and large electrode surface
[16:41] <Jessica_Lily> urrm depending on the catalyst and things well yeh it varies
[16:41] <fsphil> I've had little success with electrolysis in the past
[16:41] <fsphil> but then Im' not a chemist :)
[16:41] <Jessica_Lily> xD
[16:42] <Jessica_Lily> fsphil what catalyst did you use?
[16:42] <SpeedEvil> You'll need to dry the H2 of course
[16:42] <fsphil> salt :)
[16:42] <Jessica_Lily> hmm it corrodes your electrodes
[16:42] <SpeedEvil> Salt is not a good idea
[16:42] <BrainDamage> if you want to produce H2 and got access to chemicals, there's many easier ways, like Al and HCL
[16:42] <fsphil> it very corroded them
[16:42] <SpeedEvil> Platinised niobium electrodes.
[16:42] <fsphil> to use proper english speak :)
[16:42] <Jessica_Lily> BrainDamage expense
[16:43] <BrainDamage> I wouldn't say electrolysis is so cheap either
[16:43] <fsphil> I have a small 600g balloon I want to fill with H2
[16:43] <Jessica_Lily> its cheap enough
[16:43] <BrainDamage> how much do you pay?
[16:43] <SpeedEvil> Electrolysis is cheaper than laser.
[16:44] <Jessica_Lily> the most expensive thing in electrolysis tends to be the catalyst
[16:44] <fsphil> probably cheaper than getting it from BOC too
[16:44] <Jessica_Lily> im most likely going to use magnesium sulphate i thinkk
[16:44] <fsphil> but how do you store what you produce?
[16:44] <Jessica_Lily> not sure
[16:44] <SpeedEvil> The balloon works.
[16:44] <Jessica_Lily> equally i will have to work out this valve pressure stuff
[16:44] <fsphil> produce it on demand essentially?
[16:44] <SpeedEvil> How do you plan to get well under 2% of O2 in the H2?
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[16:45] <Jessica_Lily> im not sure.. i started thinking about this last night im more throwing ideas out here
[16:45] <SpeedEvil> Erinwhatever, I guess.
[16:47] <fsphil> I wonder if having a plug that's released after a certain altitude would be useful. essentially it becomes a ZP balloon
[16:48] <fsphil> not sure that would help altitude but it might be great for floating
[16:48] <SpeedEvil> Not with latex.
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[16:48] <Jessica_Lily> what do you folk use microcontroller wise?
[16:48] <Jessica_Lily> i have a nanode im considering something like that
[16:49] <Jessica_Lily> bgeddy fancy seeing you here ;)
[16:49] <fsphil> most use avrs, usually as part of an arduino
[16:49] <bgeddy> hello - bit late to the party
[16:49] <fsphil> a few have used basic stamps, but we don't talk about them :)
[16:50] <Jessica_Lily> hmm& i need a better solution to this hight problem &
[16:50] <bgeddy> Jessica_Lily: it's me who has been giving you the information on G+ re Halo and Icarus etc
[16:50] <Jessica_Lily> bgeddy i know :P
[16:51] <bgeddy> OK
[16:51] <Jessica_Lily> I know who you are xD
[16:51] <BrainDamage> fsphil: how much gas do you use on average to fill a balloon?
[16:51] <bgeddy> good luck with this - away for now
[16:51] <SpeedEvil> BrainDamage: A cubic meter more or less.
[16:51] <SpeedEvil> Maybe two at times.
[16:51] <BrainDamage> k, thanks
[16:51] <Jessica_Lily> i doubt i will do it until next summer with university and stuff but who knows
[16:52] <Jessica_Lily> plus i'll have to write all the microcontroller software :P
[16:52] <fsphil> I think my last one used 2 cubic metres
[16:52] <fsphil> quite a lot
[16:53] <fsphil> I've still got a tank left over from the last launch, and thanks to the delay I'm paying as much to keep it as it would have to get a new one
[16:54] <fsphil> (slight exaggeration - but almost half anyway)
[16:55] <fsphil> I take it the BOC H2 tanks have a different attachment to the HE ones?
[16:57] <Jessica_Lily> what kind of data do you folk get
[16:57] <Jessica_Lily> i see some graphs of temp and things from some of them
[16:57] <Jessica_Lily> which is cool
[16:58] <fsphil> usually temperature, sometimes pressure
[16:58] <fsphil> the more interesting ones have multiple sensors
[16:58] <fsphil> like a sensor in the balloon neck
[17:00] <Jessica_Lily> hmm well im most likely going to have a sensor in the balloon on mine but that will be to feed to a microcontroller to make sure it doesn't burst by oporation of a valve or something
[17:00] <Zuph> We're goint to be gathering Internal Temp, Battery Temp, External Temp, Helium Temp, External Humidity, Dust Readings, Pressure, and maybe a couple others.
[17:00] <fsphil> how will you decide if it's going to burst?
[17:00] <Jessica_Lily> im not actually sure at the moment :P
[17:00] <Jessica_Lily> like i said still mulling things over
[17:01] <Jessica_Lily> Zuph thats pretty cool
[17:03] <Jessica_Lily> seems folk are reaching about 30km but can't get more
[17:03] <BrainDamage> fsphil: strain gauge sounds simplest way to me
[17:03] <BrainDamage> as in, measure the actual balloon deformation
[17:04] <fsphil> I wonder if stretching latex polarises light, like plastic does
[17:05] <Jessica_Lily> maybe messure the pressure outside the balloon and know how much is in the balloon and work out the density and in effect the expansion?
[17:05] <Zuph> Adafruit sells some conductive elastic. resistivity changes as it stretches.
[17:05] <fsphil> the internal pressure will likely start increasing once the balloon reaches it stretch limit
[17:06] <Jessica_Lily> o yeh thats true it would wouldn't it
[17:06] <fsphil> relative pressure even
[17:06] <fsphil> the difference between the outside and inside should be very small until the latex stops stretching
[17:06] <fsphil> though nobody has measured this directly yet I think?
[17:07] <hibby> that sounds sensible - the inner pressure will be higher to facilitate the stretching
[17:08] <Zuph> I think a stretch sensor or two would be more fool-proof.
[17:08] <Jessica_Lily> problem is if i did have this setup and i had this valve it would eventually just stop rising though right?
[17:08] <fsphil> float, yea
[17:09] <Jessica_Lily> hmm the only way to overcome that i guess using different materials
[17:09] <fsphil> you'll need something thinner than latex
[17:10] <hibby> you could get a sensor inside the balloon, i s'pose, but as with the stretch sensors, measurement will change the nature of the stretch
[17:10] <fsphil> the japanese used a stupidly thin material to get to 53km
[17:11] <fsphil> (and also much £££)
[17:11] <Jessica_Lily> hmm
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[17:14] <hibby> uff
[17:14] <hibby> hangover day. not been productive.
[17:14] Action: fsphil has had a flu day .. similar thing ;)
[17:15] <fsphil> ohm time...
[17:17] <hibby> fsphil: I have a low resistance to time.
[17:17] <hibby> **that time
[17:18] <Jessica_Lily> how fast does hydrogen defuse through latex
[17:18] <SpeedEvil> Not hugely fast
[17:18] <SpeedEvil> But you don't want to store it for days
[17:19] <Jessica_Lily> im more thinking of when its actually up there
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[17:26] <Jessica_Lily> hmm as for the ZP balloon thingy& it could work if you put a ZP balloon over the latex one and when the latex balloon bursts the hydrogen will just be in the other balloon
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[17:27] <Upu> evening
[17:28] <NigeyS> evening Upu
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[17:29] <hibby> ayeaye
[17:33] <SpeedEvil> ZP balloons need vented at the bottom.
[17:33] <SpeedEvil> It's not going to be quite trivial to ensure the remains of the latex don't cover the hole
[17:33] <SpeedEvil> When it's actually up there, UV will degrade it fast enough for it not to matter.
[17:37] <Jessica_Lily> just out of curiosity how heavy can the payload be for uk regulations?
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[17:43] <LazyLeopard> Jessica_Lily: see http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:guidelines which gives (some of) the low-down...
[17:44] <bgeddy> Jessica_Lily: also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-power_rocketry has useful information for your hobbyist ICBM/spy satellite
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[17:53] <_ChrisW> anyone willing to help a newbie set up dl-fldigi to track Atlas tomorrow?
[17:55] <number10> have you read this guide yet _ChrisW http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide
[17:55] <_ChrisW> yes, that's what I'm following!
[17:56] <_ChrisW> except the first step says to select the payload from the flight drop down
[17:56] <_ChrisW> ...but I don't have a flight dropdown!
[17:56] <number10> you need to run hab mode
[17:56] <number10> and then make sure you are online...
[17:57] <_ChrisW> how do I set hab mode?
[17:57] <number10> select DL Client from to menu
[17:57] <number10> there are two versions of prog - one is (hab mode)
[17:58] <Upu> hi Chris
[17:58] <number10> also this is a good guide http://projecthorus.org/?page_id=336
[17:58] <Upu> If you want I can fire up our remote support tools and take a look if you wish, check everything is ok
[17:59] <_ChrisW> I'd like to try and figure it out myself really
[17:59] <fsphil> aah, I forgot about the launch tomorrow
[17:59] <_ChrisW> as I'll have to set it up again tomorrow on the 'real' PC
[17:59] <Upu> no problems
[17:59] <Upu> well you have 2 icons
[18:00] <Upu> one is dl-fldigi and the other is dl-fldigi HAB mode
[18:00] <number10> look at the projecthorus guide is fairly clear
[18:00] <Upu> the latter is the one you want
[18:00] <_ChrisW> got it :)
[18:00] <_ChrisW> I was just clicking on the one it had put in my start menu
[18:00] <_ChrisW> but clicking through I've found another for HAB mode :)
[18:00] <Upu> when running click dl-client and refresh payloads
[18:00] <Upu> then pic atlas and auto configure
[18:00] <_ChrisW> got it :)
[18:01] <Upu> pick
[18:01] <Upu> and make sure you're location is correct
[18:01] <_ChrisW> I'm going to try icarus first, as I have a wav file
[18:01] <Upu> so you don't appear in the sea
[18:01] <Upu> ok thats File->Audio->PLayback
[18:01] <Upu> but before you do that
[18:01] <_ChrisW> OK it's all making sense now
[18:01] <Upu> do dl-client -> offline
[18:01] <_ChrisW> I'm decoding what looks like GPS data
[18:01] <Upu> you have it working then :)
[18:02] <_ChrisW> yes I think so
[18:02] <_ChrisW> the key was that HAB mode I think
[18:02] <Upu> M1ELR ?
[18:03] <Upu> no thats not you :)
[18:03] <Upu> anyway afk shower
[18:03] <_ChrisW> thanks for your help with that
[18:03] <_ChrisW> I assume if I'm 'online' tomorrow I'll help with the group tracking?
[18:04] <fsphil> yep
[18:04] <_ChrisW> OK
[18:04] <_ChrisW> there is fast Internet where I'm going to do it
[18:05] <_ChrisW> so I'll run an ethernet up to the aerial platform :)
[18:05] <fsphil> where abouts are you?
[18:05] <_ChrisW> near Aylesbury, Bucks
[18:05] <_ChrisW> we're going to do it at a former MI6 radio station
[18:06] <Jessica_Lily> what time is it going to launch?
[18:06] <fsphil> ah, should be well placed
[18:06] <_ChrisW> 18:00 GMT I believe Jessica
[18:06] <Jessica_Lily> okay thanks
[18:06] <_ChrisW> yes, it's got perfect view all round for miles
[18:06] <fsphil> last prediction I saw had it going north before turning around again towards europoe
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[18:06] <fsphil> europe
[18:06] <_ChrisW> so we're hopeful
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[18:10] <Upu> he Chris whats your call sign set up as in dl-fldigi ?
[18:11] <_ChrisW> nothing - I didn't set one
[18:11] <_ChrisW> the frequency is all over the place on this capture
[18:11] <_ChrisW> every sentance it shifts
[18:11] <_ChrisW> is that what it should be doing?
[18:12] <Upu> yeah that happens on flights
[18:12] <Upu> press AFC button
[18:12] <_ChrisW> I've done that
[18:12] <Upu> but you may need to manually retune sometimes
[18:12] <_ChrisW> but it loses track regularly
[18:12] <_ChrisW> like I'll get two sentances, perhaps three, then I have to manually retune
[18:14] <Upu> you can adjust the AFC
[18:14] <Upu> but not sure where ...
[18:14] <_ChrisW> well we'll see what happens tomorrow
[18:14] <_ChrisW> I assume there will be a whole load of activity on here?
[18:14] <Upu> set you call sign at location and check you appear on the map
[18:15] <Upu> yeah its rarely quiet on here
[18:15] <Upu> lunar lander ensures that
[18:15] <_ChrisW> I'll plug my GPS in... give me a minute :)
[18:15] <Dan-K2VOL> har har
[18:16] <Upu> hey Dan
[18:16] <Dan-K2VOL> hi Upu
[18:16] <Dan-K2VOL> how's it going
[18:16] <Upu> Fine just messing with this swift board, when are you sending us a balloon ? :)
[18:17] <Jessica_Lily> is there anywhere near manchester to launch balloons from?
[18:18] <Upu> HI Jessica_Lily unlikely due to the airport, Rob and I are trying to get a location near Thirsk
[18:19] <Upu> You based in Manchester ?
[18:19] <Jessica_Lily> urm well i study at university in manchester but i often to go lancaster (small village outside of) as thats where my family is
[18:19] <Jessica_Lily> so really anywhere around those two placea
[18:19] <Jessica_Lily> *places
[18:20] <Upu> well you can launch from anywhere you get a NOTAM for
[18:20] <Dan-K2VOL> hehe upu we're workin hard, going to fly one of the ZP envelopes up to a burst next weekend to confirm burst pressure
[18:21] <Upu> however if we do get permission you're welcome to launch from near Thirsk though Rob or I will need to be there
[18:21] <Upu> Cool Dan-K2VOL :) That would be epic if it works, if you can hit the UK, its quite small :)
[18:22] <Dan-K2VOL> haha this one will not float
[18:23] <Dan-K2VOL> it is a trans-atlantic zero pressure balloon envelope but we're going to seal it shut
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[18:23] <Dan-K2VOL> it should burst somewhere around 10  15km high
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[18:23] <Jessica_Lily> hmm
[18:24] <_ChrisW> speaking of bursts, guys
[18:24] <_ChrisW> excuse the newbie question
[18:24] <Jessica_Lily> thirsk is just above lancaster and to the right
[18:24] <_ChrisW> but what's to stop you having a valve on the balloon controlled by altitude that lets pressure out as the balloon rises?
[18:24] <_ChrisW> that way it won't burst until you actually want it to, surely?
[18:25] <Jessica_Lily> _ChrisW we've just been talking about this today
[18:25] <Jessica_Lily> that was my plan
[18:25] <Dan-K2VOL> regarding normal latex balloon bursts?
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[18:25] <_ChrisW> because my basic physics knowledge would suggest that you need less gas as you get higher to achieve lift
[18:25] <Upu> which Lancaster the one near Morcambe ?
[18:25] <Jessica_Lily> Upu yeh
[18:25] <_ChrisW> (based on precisely zero experience on balloons, btw!)
[18:25] <Upu> sic physics knowledge would suggest that you need less gas as you get high
[18:25] <Upu> duh
[18:26] <Upu> http://g.co/maps/4erdj
[18:26] <Jessica_Lily> yeh i can't drive :P
[18:26] <Dan-K2VOL> _ChrisW in a latex balloon an amount of helium introduced at ground level will produce the same lift force throughout the climb if the balloon expands without any resistance
[18:26] <Upu> rope the parents in :)
[18:26] <Jessica_Lily> well& i can drive a motorbike on a learner permit
[18:26] <Upu> excuse the question but how old are you ?
[18:26] <Jessica_Lily> 18
[18:27] <Upu> well you don't need a parent or guardian then :)
[18:27] <Jessica_Lily> :P
[18:27] <_ChrisW> Thanks Dan
[18:27] <Upu> sure we can sort something out, its irrelevant anyway as we don't have a launch permit
[18:27] <Jessica_Lily> xD
[18:28] <Upu> but you probably could get a NOTAM for somewhere closer to home
[18:28] <Jessica_Lily> if it came to it i could just be like on the train with a ton of hydrogen like& yehhhh :P
[18:28] <Dan-K2VOL> _ChrisW for most latex flights you can consider them to not provide resistance, as they produce a roughly linear climb
[18:28] <Upu> get a working payload and we'll sort something out
[18:28] <Jessica_Lily> well i should i have an A-level in electronics so im reasonably confident about that
[18:29] <Dan-K2VOL> _chrisW however in actuality the slight increase in pressure as the rubber provides back-tension increases helium density slightly
[18:29] <Dan-K2VOL> over time
[18:29] <Dan-K2VOL> as compared to no back pressure
[18:29] <_ChrisW> ok... following so far ;)
[18:29] <Upu> Jessica_Lily sounds like you have a head start, what microcontroller are you planning to use ?
[18:29] <Jessica_Lily> urrm maybe a nanode since i already have one
[18:29] <Jessica_Lily> but im not sure xD
[18:29] <Dan-K2VOL> _chrisW this is how some latex balloon flights stop climbing and float, if they have low enough ascent rate to begin with
[18:30] <Upu> thats an Arduino ?
[18:30] <Jessica_Lily> urrm no its quite arduino like
[18:30] <Jessica_Lily> but no
[18:30] <Upu> ok fair enough not heard of those
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[18:30] <Jessica_Lily> you have to assemble it yourself so i don't think they're terribly popular
[18:31] <Upu> best way
[18:31] <Upu> you'll understand it then
[18:31] Nick change: hcuc -> M1ELR
[18:31] <Jessica_Lily> xD
[18:31] <Upu> ok I'll off to shoot things, good luck and can't wait to see what you come up with. Ask about if you're unsure of anything and give me a shout when you have something working
[18:31] <Dan-K2VOL> _ChrisW the vent idea is fine, it's been used before for slowing or halting ascent in several different types of balloons, including latex, zero pressure plastic, and superpressure plastic
[18:31] <Upu> I'll=I'm
[18:32] <Jessica_Lily> Upu okay :)
[18:32] <Jessica_Lily> io
[18:32] <Jessica_Lily> *i'll be around
[18:32] <Zuph> Upu, Jessica_Lily: the nanode is completely arduino compatible. Just a clone with ethernet slapped on top
[18:32] <jonsowman> any reason for using a nanode rather than an Arduino?
[18:32] <Jessica_Lily> i know its ardunio compatible but it isn't one
[18:32] <Jessica_Lily> jonsowman cost maybe i donno :P
[18:32] <NigeyS> stripboard ftw :p
[18:32] <jonsowman> how much is the nanode Jessica_Lily?
[18:33] <Jessica_Lily> 20 quid
[18:33] <_ChrisW> Dan: so, if you let helium out of the balloon at the top of the flight
[18:33] <_ChrisW> Dan: would the amount of lift reduce?
[18:33] <Dan-K2VOL> _chrisW yes
[18:33] <Jessica_Lily> _ChrisW thats a given
[18:33] <jonsowman> Jessica_Lily: wow i didn't realise they're that cheap
[18:33] <Dan-K2VOL> or at any point in flight
[18:33] <_ChrisW> OK
[18:34] <_ChrisW> I was assuming that less dense air outside would mean less helium is required inside to achieve the same lift
[18:34] <_ChrisW> so you could vent helium out to stop the burst and climb higher
[18:34] <Jessica_Lily> you could eventually make it float
[18:34] <Dan-K2VOL> lift is solely based on density, which is only based on mass and volume
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[18:35] <Jessica_Lily> and then the diffusion of the helium out of the balloon would slowly mean it would fall
[18:35] <Dan-K2VOL> _ChrisW the helium expanding the volume of the balloon decreases the density of the balloon as the air density is decreasing
[18:36] <Dan-K2VOL> but the density ratio seems to remain about the same as it climbs
[18:36] <_ChrisW> so the way to go higher is to stop the balloon from bursting somehow
[18:36] <_ChrisW> ?
[18:36] <Jessica_Lily> yes
[18:36] <Dan-K2VOL> yes, and releasing helium is a fine way
[18:36] <Dan-K2VOL> however you will lose lift doing that
[18:36] <Jessica_Lily> _ChrisW im with you.. i want mine to go higher
[18:36] <Jessica_Lily> very high
[18:37] <Dan-K2VOL> then you mustn't release helium
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[18:37] <_ChrisW> I don't even have 'one' yet, but hopefully soon :)
[18:37] <Jessica_Lily> but my balloon would explode
[18:37] <Jessica_Lily> _ChrisW me nether im in the "mulling" stage :P
[18:37] <Jessica_Lily> just pondering
[18:37] <Dan-K2VOL> as they all will if they keep going higher
[18:38] <Zuph> I prefer increasing the local gravity field to attain float.
[18:38] <Jessica_Lily> i have even been considering attaching a rocket to launch mid-flight when the balloon has got me as high as it can
[18:38] <Jessica_Lily> but the weight and the difficulty of making sure it goes straight up
[18:38] <Jessica_Lily> carrying fuel .. etc..
[18:38] <Jessica_Lily> its just not feasible
[18:38] <Dan-K2VOL> it's feasible, just not easy
[18:38] <NigeyS> hehe thats a whole different ball game Jessica
[18:39] <Jessica_Lily> and its expensive
[18:39] <NigeyS> Afternoon Dan :)
[18:39] <NigeyS> missed the talk yesterday, i was shattered :(
[18:40] <Jessica_Lily> and then its what fuel& hydrogen isn't dense enough aprox 1g = 11L in volvume
[18:40] <Jessica_Lily> liquid hydrogen requires storing under pressure and is quite dangerous
[18:41] <_ChrisW> could you even achieve a burn that high without taking oxygen up too?
[18:41] <Jessica_Lily> hmm it most likely wouldn't burn well so you most likely would have to take some yeh
[18:42] <_ChrisW> we were thinking about burning a fuel to keep the payload temperature up
[18:42] <_ChrisW> maybe using the burner out of a gas soldering iron, or similar
[18:42] <_ChrisW> but then the question arose of whether there would be sufficient oxygen
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[18:43] <Jessica_Lily> its a difficult difficult task getting higher than well currently we can really go with the balloons we use
[18:43] <Dan-K2VOL> These are exciting things to think about
[18:44] <Jessica_Lily> i am aiming to actually get something to orbit i think that'd be so so awesome i just think my aim might be a tad unrealistic
[18:44] <Dan-K2VOL> _ChrisW I can save you some trouble on the heat question - if you like
[18:45] <Dan-K2VOL> Jessica_Lily to see if you can just simply calculate what the smallest existing rocket is that could accellerate from 0 mph to 17,000mph, starting at 30km altitude
[18:45] <Dan-K2VOL> then use the weight of that rocket as a basis for how big of a balloon would be needed to lift it
[18:46] <Dan-K2VOL> I think that's all the calcs you'll need to determine if you can even afford the helium to lift such a system
[18:47] <Jessica_Lily> well i could use hydrogen :P electrolysis of water using a catalyst such as sulphuric acid or MgSO4 but i'd have to ensure it was dry like the conversation earlier was refering to
[18:47] <Dan-K2VOL> There's no reason it wouldn't work Jessia_Lily, they launch decent sized satellites using the jet-plane launched Pegasus rocket in the US from about 13km high
[18:48] <_ChrisW> Dan: interested in your thoughts if you've got time
[18:48] <_ChrisW> I'll refer back to what I said earlier about my level of experience! :)
[18:49] <Dan-K2VOL> _ChrisW as far as our research as amateurs has found, the key thing to consider is heat output per weight of the heater
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[18:49] <Jessica_Lily> i wonder if there is some kind of oxygen level detector i could have to messure the oxygen levels on a regular balloon
[18:49] <Dan-K2VOL> just like selecting a power source - most milliamps per weight unit of the power source
[18:50] <griffonbot> @project_swift: #ukhas Atlas Heads To Europe Tomorrow! http://t.co/zFPkSTXB [http://twitter.com/project_swift/status/134704467709935617]
[18:50] <_ChrisW> of course
[18:50] <jonsowman> anyone heard from james re launch tomorrow?
[18:50] <_ChrisW> but surely gaseous fuel has more joules/kg than batteries?
[18:51] <NigeyS> he was in last night, seemed to be confident gps was fixed, and all was still on
[18:51] <jonsowman> cool
[18:51] <jonsowman> ta NigeyS
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[18:51] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[18:51] <Jessica_Lily> hey
[18:51] <Lunar_Lander> hi jonsowman NigeyS Jessica_Lily
[18:51] <jonsowman> hello
[18:51] <Lunar_Lander> yesterday I watched the Man Lab thing
[18:51] <Jessica_Lily> ooo wouldn't it be awesome to messure free radicals going up
[18:51] <Lunar_Lander> it was fun
[18:52] <Lunar_Lander> but I think that "Dr" at least lost the finding "race"
[18:52] <Lunar_Lander> because James found the flight train before they even got through the field
[18:54] <_ChrisW> i was intrigued by why they had to DF at the end of that show
[18:54] <_ChrisW> was it just down to lack of radio signal once the altitude was low?
[18:55] <Lunar_Lander> that could be
[18:55] <Lunar_Lander> btw did the cat had an overhead camera?
[18:56] <Lunar_Lander> I remember him saying there is one camera at the back and one at the front, looking at the photo
[18:56] <Lunar_Lander> and only the bird had an overhead cam
[18:56] <LazyLeopard> They managed to get both balloons bursting...
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[18:57] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[18:57] <_ChrisW> just watching it back...
[18:57] <_ChrisW> the cat had three cameras
[18:57] <Lunar_Lander> hi daveake
[18:57] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[18:57] <_ChrisW> one in the 'head'
[18:57] <_ChrisW> one in the 'tail'
[18:57] <_ChrisW> on on the top
[18:58] <fsphil> woo, doggie all walked. can sit down now
[18:58] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[18:58] <Lunar_Lander> hi fsphil
[18:58] <daveake> hi Linar_Lander
[18:58] <Lunar_Lander> the idea of shooting the party balloons with an arrow reminded me of the funfair episode of Mr Bean
[18:58] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[18:59] <daveake> Or someone like that :)
[18:59] <fsphil> daveake, guess what
[18:59] <daveake> ..................... a DM email? .................
[18:59] <daveake> No ................
[18:59] <fsphil> it finally happened
[18:59] <daveake> Wow
[18:59] <daveake> How cold is hell right now? ;)
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[19:00] <fsphil> -3c at least
[19:00] <fsphil> and last night I was playing duke 4
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[19:01] <Lunar_Lander> Duke Nukem Forever?
[19:02] <fsphil> yea
[19:02] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[19:03] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[19:03] <Lunar_Lander> I liked the music choice of Man Lab
[19:03] <daveake> fsphil So now you need a payload, balloon, helium ....
[19:03] <daveake> When's the first possible launch date?
[19:03] <Lunar_Lander> Chariots of Fire is a great tune
[19:03] <fsphil> daveake, I've got all that. for a while now ;)
[19:03] <fsphil> not this weekend, predictions are naff.
[19:03] <daveake> :D
[19:04] <fsphil> going to plan for the next one
[19:04] <daveake> Good; I'm away in Wales this weekend, without my gear
[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> so who did the Man Lab thing again?
[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> Upu and rjharrison?
[19:04] <daveake> and RocketBoy
[19:04] <fsphil> and rocketboy
[19:05] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:05] <daveake> Upu was invisible
[19:05] <Lunar_Lander> xD!
[19:05] <fsphil> he had his invisible specs on
[19:05] <daveake> I saw the specs!
[19:05] <Lunar_Lander> was one of the two visible people in the frame at the party balloon scene?
[19:05] <gonzo_> evening all
[19:05] <Lunar_Lander> or just when it came to the big balloons
[19:06] <gonzo_> saw the prog to and re-awakened long time plans for a balloon
[19:06] <gonzo_> too
[19:07] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[19:07] <gonzo_> wondered, what are people using to generate the 50db telem?
[19:07] <gonzo_> off the shelf proc board?
[19:07] <fsphil> usually homebrew
[19:08] <fsphil> based on an arduino or something similar
[19:08] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:09] <Lunar_Lander> euroarduino
[19:09] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[19:09] <daveake> Yep. I like to use the 3V3 Arduino Mini Pro, as it's very light and interfaces directly to 3V3 GPS, SD card, etc
[19:10] <gonzo_> have people published the code? As I really don't want to start designing from scratch
[19:11] <number10> thats the fun og it gonzo_
[19:11] <number10> og==of
[19:11] <gonzo_> don't mind making up and programming the flash, but I'm not looking for another development project!
[19:12] <Jessica_Lily> i worry about time to design mine and stuff
[19:12] <Jessica_Lily> uni really eats my time
[19:12] <gonzo_> hehe, yep, work and sleep get in the way here
[19:13] <daveake> And there I was thinking that it all the uni students here were the ones with the spare time :p
[19:13] <gonzo_> and the dozens of other projects
[19:13] <Lunar_Lander> Jessica_Lily, you wanted to do biological research, right?
[19:13] <Lunar_Lander> XD daveake
[19:13] <Jessica_Lily> i did?
[19:13] <Jessica_Lily> :P
[19:13] <Jessica_Lily> no
[19:13] <Lunar_Lander> you mentioned free radicals
[19:13] <Jessica_Lily> o right
[19:13] <Jessica_Lily> i did yes
[19:13] <gonzo_> there are no free radicals, not if the home sec keeps prescribing them
[19:13] <daveake> (feel free to rearrange my words into an actual sentence)
[19:13] <Jessica_Lily> Lunar_Lander free radicals break down ozone molecules
[19:14] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, my world currently looks like
[19:14] <Jessica_Lily> its why CFC's are terrible
[19:14] <Jessica_Lily> :P
[19:14] <Lunar_Lander> -(h/2Pi)²/2m*d²/dx² Psi(x,t)+V(x,t)*Psi(x,t)=ih d/dt Psi(x,t)
[19:14] <Lunar_Lander> yeah Jessica_Lily
[19:14] <number10> some people here have managed to study supjects that have no relation to HAB and have designed coded and built
[19:14] <number10> sub
[19:14] <daveake> Yep
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[19:15] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, so much for students and much time
[19:15] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[19:15] <Lunar_Lander> Jessica_Lily, so you want to look at halogens and so on?
[19:15] <Jessica_Lily> would be cool :)
[19:16] <daveake> I'm sure I had plenty when I was a student :-). Or at least, I spent a lot of time doing stuff not on my course ... :p
[19:16] <number10> I can imagine daveake
[19:16] <Jessica_Lily> i get hardly any holidays and they cram our time we're not in uni with crap loads of work
[19:16] <jonsowman> i have very little time during term
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[19:17] <Jessica_Lily> we don't even get reading week because apparently we took a "real" subject
[19:17] <Jessica_Lily> :P
[19:17] <jonsowman> Jessica_Lily: what subject?
[19:17] <Jessica_Lily> which made me laugh but thats not the point :P
[19:17] <Jessica_Lily> chemistry
[19:17] <jonsowman> ah ok
[19:17] <number10> thast Uni for you crap load of work... but if you dont do it crap work
[19:17] <jonsowman> we don't get reading weeks either
[19:17] <jonsowman> but on the other hand our terms are 8 weeks
[19:17] <gonzo_> I thought beer was the main distraction for students everywhere
[19:17] <Dan-K2VOL> _ChrisW while several fuels might have better joules per kg than AA lithium batts, the problem is that you also need an oxidizer, fuel tanks, and a combustion control system, and the fuels need to be safe (so no hydrazine!)
[19:18] <Jessica_Lily> well i break up on i think the 16th of dec
[19:18] <Jessica_Lily> started the 20th of sept
[19:18] <jonsowman> wow that's late
[19:18] <jonsowman> we started 3rd october and finish 2nd dec
[19:18] <Jessica_Lily> i've already had a crappy exam too
[19:18] <Jessica_Lily> only got 50%
[19:18] <Lunar_Lander> hey jonsowman
[19:18] <jonsowman> which uni?
[19:18] <jonsowman> hi Lunar_Lander
[19:18] <Jessica_Lily> manchester met
[19:18] <jonsowman> oh cool
[19:18] <Lunar_Lander> so you just passed Jessica_Lily ?
[19:18] <Jessica_Lily> yeh :P
[19:18] <Jessica_Lily> it was on quantum theory though
[19:18] <jonsowman> which year?
[19:18] <Lunar_Lander> sorry jonsowman I meant hello Dan-K2VOL
[19:18] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[19:18] <Dan-K2VOL> _ChrisW also the sun provides tremendous heat in the daytime if you keep the wind out. Using a dark color paint on the outside means you don't need much insulation
[19:19] <jonsowman> ah no worries
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> Jessica_Lily, so you know that equation up there quite good
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> this
[19:19] <Jessica_Lily> schrodingers equation, hesinberg, MO/AO diagrams, etc..
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> -(h/2Pi)²/2m*d²/dx² Psi(x,t)+V(x,t)*Psi(x,t)=ih d/dt Psi(x,t)
[19:19] <Jessica_Lily> yeh
[19:19] <Jessica_Lily> wavefunction & schrodingers equation
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:19] <Jessica_Lily> crappy differentials in the middle
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> potential well
[19:19] <Jessica_Lily> blah
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> wave packages
[19:20] <Jessica_Lily> and calculating RDF and using the born interpretation and stuff
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> and bra-ket
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> who invented that?
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:20] <Jessica_Lily> i have no physics background so this is all very hard for me :P
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:20] <jonsowman> Jessica_Lily: so, launching a HAB?
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[19:20] <Jessica_Lily> planning on
[19:21] <jonsowman> :)
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> OK, who invented bra-ket?
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:21] <Jessica_Lily> don't knowwww
[19:21] <Jessica_Lily> :P
[19:21] <Dan-K2VOL> _ChrisW practically you only need to provide extra heat if you fly at night. The sun can do all your daytime heating
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[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> Dirac!
[19:21] <Jessica_Lily> and i cba finding google in my thousands of applications open :P
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:21] <Jessica_Lily> (not really thousands)
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> the good Dirac did it
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:22] <Jessica_Lily> Lunar_Lander you're a physicist
[19:22] <Jessica_Lily> i actually think i have a relatively good backing for HAB
[19:22] <Jessica_Lily> s
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:23] <Dan-K2VOL> _ChrisW basically use energizer e2 lithium batteries to heat resistive heaters to keep the batts warm above 20C if you're flying at night and need lots of current, and above 40C if you only need a bit of current
[19:23] <number10> photography?
[19:23] <Jessica_Lily> i did electronics A-level& I know how to program and i do chemistry so i know quite a bit science and can apply it
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> I am a physicist to be
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> that is the difference
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> I have next to no idea of electronics
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> well, had
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> arduino gave me lessons in that
[19:23] <Jessica_Lily> :P
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> and my friend Janez from slovenia helps me with the programming
[19:24] <Jessica_Lily> im better at designing circuits using op-amps, components, clocks, logic, mosfets, etc..
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[19:24] <jonsowman> ah electronics A level, that was good fun
[19:24] <jonsowman> well, Systems & Control
[19:24] <Jessica_Lily> we did a bit of assembly in A-level but we tried to stay out of it
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> Janez also thinks that arduino isn't the best microcontroller there is
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> it is too slow for a model airplane autopilot
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> for example
[19:26] <jonsowman> horses for courses
[19:26] <Jessica_Lily> depends what you need
[19:27] <Randomskk> also it's totally not too slow
[19:27] <Randomskk> it entirely depends what you want to do with your autopilot
[19:28] <Jessica_Lily> Lunar_Lander where are you studying if you're a physicist to be :P
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> in northwestern Germany
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[19:29] <Jessica_Lily> ooo
[19:29] <Jessica_Lily> i knew a german physicist
[19:30] <Jessica_Lily> that'd be so weird if you were the person i knew
[19:30] <Dan-K2VOL> hi Lunar_Lander
[19:31] <Lunar_Lander> I know a Jessica here at the university
[19:31] <Lunar_Lander> but no Jessica in the UK
[19:31] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:31] <Jessica_Lily> xD
[19:31] <Jessica_Lily> there is a few jessicas in the uk
[19:32] <Jessica_Lily> infact there is a few on my course
[19:32] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[19:32] <Jessica_Lily> so you'd have a job finding me
[19:32] <Lunar_Lander> yay
[19:32] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:32] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[19:32] <Lunar_Lander> how do you want to design the experiment?
[19:32] <Lunar_Lander> spectroscope or a chemical method?
[19:33] <Jessica_Lily> im not actually sure at the moment
[19:33] <Jessica_Lily> im in the "mulling over" stage :P
[19:33] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:33] <fsphil> I'm in the "oh crap I'm launching soon and probably not ready" stage ;)
[19:33] <Jessica_Lily> im uber OCD so i'd always meet launch dates :P
[19:34] <Jessica_Lily> Lunar_Lander you might actually be able to help& I want to send data actually back while its flying instead of just getting it at the end
[19:34] <Jessica_Lily> do you know how i'd do that&
[19:34] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:34] <Lunar_Lander> well
[19:34] <Lunar_Lander> Janez and I did work on that problem on how to getting data back from my sensors
[19:34] <Lunar_Lander> that was easy because the programming made the sensors output numbers
[19:35] <Lunar_Lander> and they could be fit into the datastring that is relayed down by the radio
[19:35] <Jessica_Lily> ah that sounds cool
[19:35] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[19:35] <Lunar_Lander> do you know Upu's NTX2+Arduino Tutorial?
[19:35] <Jessica_Lily> nope
[19:35] <Lunar_Lander> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[19:36] <Jessica_Lily> how fast can you transmit data?
[19:36] <Jessica_Lily> over radio
[19:37] <Randomskk> depends
[19:37] <Randomskk> we typically do 50 baud but 300 baud is also common and fairly reliable
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[19:37] <Randomskk> wifi transmits hundreds of megabits
[19:37] <Randomskk> and high speed gigabit backhaul microwave links are very fast
[19:37] <Jessica_Lily> 300baud thats a huge baud rate isn't it?
[19:37] <Randomskk> it's really slow
[19:37] <Randomskk> I can practically speak faster than 300 baud
[19:38] <Jessica_Lily> hmm
[19:38] <bcw> for balloons it is, as I understand it
[19:38] <Randomskk> dial up modems used to be 56 thousand baud
[19:38] <daveake> :)
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[19:38] <Jessica_Lily> O_o
[19:38] <Randomskk> modern internet is like, millions of baud
[19:38] <jonsowman> 50 baud sounds pretty though
[19:38] <Randomskk> fcvo pretty
[19:38] <daveake> It does
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[19:38] <jonsowman> mfsk16 is better admittedly
[19:38] <NigeyS> cw ftw :p
[19:38] <Zuph> Also sounds prettiier.
[19:38] <Jessica_Lily> okay so & how can we get data back faster :P
[19:38] <daveake> It's a very welcome warble when you're chasing a landed payload :)
[19:39] <gonzo_> is the telem usually 8bit binary, or 5bit baudot?
[19:39] <Lunar_Lander> Jessica_Lily, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1qhdsRyKW0
[19:39] <jonsowman> gonzo_: most people use 7 or 8 bit ascii
[19:39] <Zuph> gonzo_: 8 bit binary these days.
[19:39] <daveake> former, but you can speed things up with 5-bit
[19:39] <Jessica_Lily> thahanks Lunar_Lander
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[19:39] <gonzo_> so my mechanical teleprinter will be njo use!
[19:39] <fsphil> haha
[19:40] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL has one of those at the hackspace
[19:40] <Zuph> Beautiful peice of work.
[19:40] <fsphil> ooh would love to see that
[19:41] <Zuph> It's all clockwork machinary.
[19:41] <Zuph> *machinery
[19:41] <Zuph> It takes a couple minutes to warm up before it starts decoding 100% accurately :-p
[19:42] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[19:42] <fsphil> rtty?
[19:42] <Zuph> Yeah
[19:42] <fsphil> have you used it to receive amateur signals?
[19:42] <Zuph> Once. I'd like to set it up next to the ham station for more regular use
[19:43] <Zuph> Well, we've used it at the hackerspace once for real rtty
[19:43] <Zuph> He's used it much more.
[19:43] <gonzo_> have you tried to find paper tape for the punch?
[19:43] <fsphil> that would be a pretty interesting project .. make a printer
[19:43] <Zuph> It uses tractor feed printer paper, albeit oddly sized printer paper.
[19:44] <Jessica_Lily> i wonder what other sensors i could include
[19:44] <Jessica_Lily> hmm
[19:44] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL has a ream, and once it's out, it might be bad news
[19:44] <Dan-K2VOL> fsphil I used it to decode SNOX before they got over the horizon
[19:44] <daveake> fsphil http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zX09WnGU6ZY
[19:44] <fsphil> Dan-K2VOL, sweet!
[19:44] <Zuph> Although inking the ribbon is a more immediate problem.
[19:45] <Zuph> back to the grind
[19:45] <Jessica_Lily> how do you folk do estimates on where things will land and things?
[19:45] <jonsowman> Jessica_Lily: http://habhub.org/predict
[19:45] <Jessica_Lily> ooo cool
[19:45] <Jessica_Lily> thanks
[19:46] <fsphil> great video daveake
[19:47] <Lunar_Lander> Jessica_Lily, did the video of mine work?
[19:47] <Jessica_Lily> the one you linked me to?
[19:47] <Jessica_Lily> yeh
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[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> Jessica_Lily, that was basically the thing described in Upu's text
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[19:58] <Laurenceb_> Randomskk: ping
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[20:04] <Upu> Wow blink-o-matic
[20:05] <Laurenceb_> you got an arduino?
[20:07] <Upu> no my IRC
[20:11] <Upu> just scrolling back
[20:12] <Upu> 50 baud is great, reliable and does sound like a space probe which adds bonus points
[20:12] <jonsowman> :D
[20:12] <daveake> :)
[20:13] <daveake> My next payload will be a ball with aerials, to make it look like Sputnik
[20:13] <Upu> think Rocketboy may have beaten you too it
[20:13] <daveake> It'll use the electronics from Buzz1, so I think I'll call it BuzzNik :)
[20:13] <daveake> Probably
[20:13] <Upu> lol
[20:13] <Upu> good to see you got that RTTY test beacon working Lunar
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[20:15] <Jessica_Lily> o by the way i was wondering because not only did i want to send sensor data back i wanted to send photographic data back
[20:16] <NigeyS> hehe thats the fiddly bit
[20:16] <NigeyS> better to store images on a sd card ...
[20:16] <Jessica_Lily> im going to
[20:16] <Jessica_Lily> but i want to send them back also
[20:17] <NigeyS> you could try ssdv
[20:17] <Jessica_Lily> most likely compressed
[20:17] <Jessica_Lily> so i can live throw them on the internet
[20:17] <NigeyS> speak to fsphil he's the man for sending images over the radio link
[20:17] <Jessica_Lily> and then when i retrieve the payload i could upload the high quality ones
[20:17] <Upu> Jessica_Lily go collect the payload thats the best way
[20:17] <jonsowman> Jessica_Lily: even if you do it right, you'll get a 300x200 odd pixel image in about 3 minutes
[20:18] <Upu> you won't be able to send data back quick enough to get decent quality
[20:18] <jonsowman> the link budget for these telemetry systems is fairly small
[20:18] <Jessica_Lily> im not fussed about decent quality too much
[20:18] <jonsowman> or at least it is given a reasonable cost
[20:18] <Upu> you sure ?
[20:18] <Jessica_Lily> that can happen when i collect the payload
[20:18] <Jessica_Lily> though it means i will most likely have to write compression on the fly
[20:18] <Upu> anyone got the link to fsphil's SSTV page ?
[20:18] <fsphil> you can get cameras that produce jpeg images directly
[20:19] <fsphil> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:ssdv
[20:19] <Upu> ok
[20:19] <Upu> so Jessica_Lily its http://ukhas.org.uk/_detail/guides:ssdv-hadie.jpeg?id=guides%3Assdv
[20:19] <Upu> vs
[20:19] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/IMG_6480_stitch.jpg
[20:20] <Upu> not demening what SSTV does
[20:20] <Upu> and I have no idea how they do radio magic to get the pictures back live
[20:20] <jonsowman> hmm, speaking of which, I need to have the Nova 8 HAPS-D panorama printed out again
[20:20] <jonsowman> http://www.nivnac.co.uk/files/HAPSD_NOVA8/HAPS-D_pan1_quarter.jpg
[20:20] <fsphil> to be fair, it also produced this image: http://www.flickr.com/photos/fsphil/5797623324/in/set-72157626013096240
[20:21] <Upu> yeah
[20:21] <fsphil> 4 months it took
[20:21] <fsphil> ooh, wrong channel
[20:21] Action: Upu points fsphil to the right channel
[20:21] <jonsowman> haha, that's a long time to wait for a VGA image :P
[20:21] <jonsowman> it's not even VGA is it
[20:22] <jonsowman> QVGA?
[20:22] <fsphil> yea, 320x240 ;)
[20:22] <fsphil> still, that was 300 baud. it seems to work faster
[20:22] <Jessica_Lily> fsphil how fast
[20:22] <Upu> all said Jessica_Lily SSTV is fun but complex , the higher res pics can be achieved with just a point and click Canon camera from ebay hanging from your ballloon
[20:22] <Jessica_Lily> and how do you deal with dataloss?
[20:22] <fsphil> 600 baud seems reliable
[20:22] <Jessica_Lily> with hamming code maybe?
[20:22] <fsphil> you end up with a gap in the image
[20:23] <fsphil> there are reed solomon codes for fixing small errors
[20:23] <Jessica_Lily> ahh cool
[20:24] <griffonbot> @AnthonyStirk: RT @project_swift: #ukhas Atlas Heads To Europe Tomorrow! http://t.co/zFPkSTXB [http://twitter.com/AnthonyStirk/status/134728130840641536]
[20:24] <Upu> oh griffonbot is back
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[20:24] <Upu> Evening Tim
[20:24] <TimZaman> evenin
[20:24] <jonsowman> Upu: yeah i'm unsure why it died
[20:25] <TimZaman> Easyest way to open and close a circuit with an arduino?
[20:25] <jonsowman> i'll examine more closely if it does it again
[20:25] <Upu> do we have a check script ?
[20:25] <Upu> what circuit Tim ?
[20:25] <TimZaman> relais takes too much power, transistorcircuit too big.
[20:25] <jonsowman> Upu: not afaik
[20:25] <bcw> Jessica_Lily: There is a system used on Usenet called par2
[20:25] <TimZaman> Upu: f.e. pressing a button
[20:26] <Upu> something like the pyro system and a relay ?
[20:26] <jonsowman> TimZaman: but what are you trying to accomplish?
[20:26] <TimZaman> nah
[20:26] <bcw> I dare say you could use that to 'correct' the loss of data
[20:26] <TimZaman> like pressing a fysical button
[20:26] <jonsowman> what does the button do?
[20:26] <bcw> by calculating a par2 across say 10 images and then trasmitting that as the '11th'
[20:26] <Upu> button on what ?
[20:26] <TimZaman> button on anything
[20:26] <Upu> lol
[20:26] <TimZaman> once on button
[20:26] <Upu> a remote control finger ?
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[20:26] <TimZaman> :)
[20:26] <bcw> which would correct any errors across the 10
[20:27] <jonsowman> a servo?
[20:27] <daveake> :)
[20:27] <TimZaman> more like on a camera; the shutterbutton
[20:27] <jonsowman> but seriously, it depends what you're trying to control
[20:27] <bcw> dunno if that's a common use in balloons, but from a software perspective I'd suspect it would work
[20:27] <jonsowman> oh i see
[20:27] <Upu> do it in software ?
[20:27] <jonsowman> use a transistor
[20:27] <jonsowman> or yes, CHDK
[20:27] <TimZaman> yeah used a transistor last time
[20:27] <TimZaman> but i have to control 4 buttons
[20:27] <Upu> or most cameras have remote shutter release port, the big ones anyway
[20:27] <jonsowman> 4 transistors ;)
[20:27] <TimZaman> so i thought maybe there is a "one component" solution
[20:27] <daveake> 4 transistors then
[20:27] <Upu> what camera ?
[20:27] <TimZaman> yeah with 4 resistors..
[20:27] <jonsowman> i daresay you can get 4 BJTs in a package
[20:27] <TimZaman> fujifilm something
[20:28] <daveake> There are 4-way and 8-way driver chips
[20:28] <daveake> But I'd just use 4 transistors
[20:28] <daveake> and r's
[20:28] <Upu> Can you use a Canon ?
[20:28] <TimZaman> hmm kay ill just use transistors then :(
[20:29] <TimZaman> Upu: i have 4 canons
[20:29] <TimZaman> but this is a polaroid.
[20:29] <TimZaman> of which i also have 4 :)
[20:30] <Upu> 8 cameras ?
[20:31] <TimZaman> Never mind
[20:31] <TimZaman> i'm planning nothing as if yet
[20:32] <TimZaman> a mosfet would work too, right?
[20:32] <jonsowman> yep
[20:33] <TimZaman> what the con of that
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[20:35] <Upu> TimZaman mind if I clear the tracker for Space Camera 2 ?
[20:35] <TimZaman> Upu: yeah tidy it up
[20:35] <Upu> ta
[20:36] <Upu> quite looking forward to the launch tommorrow
[20:36] <Upu> more sociable time :)
[20:36] <TimZaman> sorry which launch?
[20:36] <Upu> Altas
[20:36] <Upu> Atlas
[20:37] <TimZaman> what will it do
[20:37] <Jessica_Lily> :P
[20:37] <Jessica_Lily> do you folk ever cancel for unexpected weather issues?
[20:37] <Upu> go up and stay up is the plan I think
[20:37] <Upu> sure Jessica_Lily but usually we know the winds / weather in advance
[20:38] <TimZaman> yeah but what kind a launch etc
[20:38] <Upu> its the winds that are the issue
[20:38] <TimZaman> Jessica_Lily: sometimes
[20:38] <Upu> deliberate float attempt I think
[20:38] <TimZaman> from, to ?
[20:38] <Upu> hopefully coming your way ? Not sure I've not seen a prediction
[20:38] <Upu> I'll do one now sec
[20:39] <Upu> interesting
[20:39] <Upu> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=d48cdec5434db5991016485e76549540724363aa
[20:39] <Upu> so if it floats its coming your way Tim
[20:39] <daveake> Jessica_Lily - Usually you know from a couple of days out that the weather will be bad. The ones I've postponed have been postponed 2-3 days prior to the launch date
[20:39] <Upu> going to be a good signal for us northern monkeys
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[20:40] <Upu> thats going to be right over you if it floats Tim
[20:40] <Upu> might be worth letting OT1SKY know as well
[20:40] <TimZaman> what kind of balloon?
[20:40] <Upu> 1600g
[20:40] <TimZaman> ohhh come on
[20:40] <TimZaman> that will get waaay higher than 36 with a 3m/s ascent
[20:41] <Upu> e'll probably be flying with a 1.6 Howyee balloon
[20:41] <Upu> with a slow ascent rate of around 2m/s aiming for float at 36km
[20:41] <Upu> altitude.
[20:41] <TimZaman> i just did 38km with 5m/s, and had 36km last time with 5m/s
[20:41] <Upu> http://groups.google.com/group/ukhas/browse_thread/thread/9d7d19024dc0491d?pli=1
[20:41] <TimZaman> i flew that the last two times
[20:41] <Upu> well yes and no
[20:41] <Upu> 1600g seem to float around 36km with slow ascent rates
[20:42] <Upu> either way I understand its got 2 sets of batteries in parallel for extended life
[20:42] <Upu> so get your antenna out
[20:42] <TimZaman> what happens if it floats at 40..
[20:43] <Upu> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=e0ad133d17f2b021bec0daca0ccacfd5771302a3
[20:43] <TimZaman> what straight to holland.
[20:43] <Upu> same
[20:44] <Upu> above a certain altitude the winds look strong
[20:44] <Upu> doubt it will take long to get there either
[20:44] <Lunar_Lander> back
[20:44] <Upu> wb Lunar_Lander
[20:44] <Lunar_Lander> hey Upu and TimZaman
[20:44] <Upu> Lunar_Lander possibly a balloon coming your way tommorrow night
[20:44] <Lunar_Lander> ATLAS III?
[20:44] <Upu> yeah
[20:44] <TimZaman> comming straight over delft
[20:44] <TimZaman> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=d49c97a1d3e3a90821904dfc180f66d59f7ae9b1
[20:45] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[20:45] <TimZaman> too bad i wont be in delft tomorrow :
[20:45] <fsphil> wow, that's going a long way
[20:46] <TimZaman> kinda weird that it accepts 0.001m/s :P
[20:46] <Upu> its worth giving OT1SKY a heads up I think
[20:46] <Upu> I'll just check with jcoxon he's still launching
[20:46] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:46] <Upu> and who was the other reciever in Germany ?
[20:47] <Lunar_Lander> and we need people in Austria and Hungary
[20:47] <Lunar_Lander> hiena?
[20:47] <Lunar_Lander> DH1BDL
[20:47] <Upu> yeah
[20:47] <Upu> anyone got his/her details ?
[20:47] <Lunar_Lander> I can advise him
[20:47] <Upu> make it so number 2
[20:47] <Lunar_Lander> just tell me what I should tell him
[20:47] <Lunar_Lander> :) yeah!
[20:48] <Upu> just let him know there is likely to be a payload coming his way tommorrow night
[20:48] <Upu> will be late
[20:48] <Upu> by the time it gets there
[20:49] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:49] <Lunar_Lander> when is the launch itself?
[20:49] <bcw> can anyone tell me...
[20:50] <bcw> there's no 'atlas' option in dl-fldigi
[20:50] <bcw> what do I select tomorrow?
[20:50] <Upu> bcw have you clicked the dl-fldigi HAB mode (you get 2 icons)
[20:50] <bcw> yes
[20:50] <bcw> we did that bit earlier :)
[20:50] <Upu> ok click dl client
[20:50] <bcw> I have icarus working from the .wav file
[20:50] <Upu> refresh payload data
[20:50] <bcw> yup, done that too ;)
[20:50] <Upu> oh yeah
[20:51] <Upu> you're right
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[20:51] <Upu> maybe he's not done the payload document yet
[20:51] <bcw> but in flight menu I have ALPHA and then ATS1
[20:51] <bcw> no Atlas
[20:51] <Upu> yeah James hasn't done the payload document
[20:51] <Upu> but just rrefresh the payload data when its done and it will appear
[20:51] <bcw> ahh ok, so I have to wait until he's sorted his end first
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[20:52] <bcw> OK, thanks :)
[20:52] <Upu> nps
[20:52] <Jessica_Lily> brb
[20:52] <Jessica_Lily> be 30 mins
[20:52] <Upu> we'll still be here
[20:53] <fsphil> there's an exit?
[20:53] <Lunar_Lander> Upu what time is the launch?
[20:53] <Upu> 18:00 GMT is the information I have
[20:53] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:54] <Upu> Sure Dr Coxon will advise
[20:54] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> and what frequency? 434.065 or 434.075
[20:55] <Upu> 075
[20:56] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> we got someone from Hungary, right?
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> Hiena I think
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[21:05] <jcoxon> evening all
[21:06] <number10> evening
[21:06] <Upu> ah just the man good evening
[21:06] <Upu> still on for tommorrow ?
[21:06] <fsphil> ullo ullo
[21:06] <jcoxon> yeah
[21:06] <jcoxon> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=990913cc87ed98afa15e46c4c4a9e954bbac7376
[21:07] <Upu> looking sexeh : http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=d49c97a1d3e3a90821904dfc180f66d59f7ae9b1
[21:07] <jcoxon> hehe
[21:07] <Upu> snap ?
[21:07] <number10> are you launching by yourself tomorrow jcoxon?
[21:07] <jcoxon> oh i see
[21:07] <jcoxon> clever
[21:07] <jcoxon> 0.001 descent rate
[21:07] <fsphil> rather sneaky that
[21:07] <Upu> that was Tim's idea
[21:08] <jonsowman> jcoxon: what time you getting here tomorrow
[21:08] <jcoxon> we can track that
[21:08] <jonsowman> 5?
[21:08] <Lunar_Lander> hello jcoxon , I notified DH1BDL
[21:08] <jcoxon> jonsowman, anytime really
[21:09] <jonsowman> jcoxon: shall we say 5?
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[21:09] <jonsowman> can be a bit earlier if you like?
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[21:10] <jcoxon> when are you free from?
[21:10] <jonsowman> 10am onwards :P
[21:10] <jcoxon> haha
[21:10] <jcoxon> well i've got some stuff to do
[21:11] <jcoxon> i'm keen to have a chilled launch
[21:11] <jonsowman> sure
[21:11] <jonsowman> what sort of time shall we say then?
[21:11] <jcoxon> so launch at 1800
[21:11] <fsphil> a smooth, on time launch with no hassles?
[21:11] <jcoxon> fsphil, ha
[21:12] <jcoxon> how about i aim for 1530
[21:12] <jcoxon> i know thats ages but i think its for the best
[21:12] <jcoxon> as its going to be dark...
[21:13] <Upu> sounds good to me
[21:14] <Upu> Anyone know if OT1SKY is on the mailing list ?
[21:14] <jonsowman> jcoxon: 1530 is fine
[21:14] <jonsowman> jcoxon: will meet you in the churchill bar
[21:14] <jcoxon> Upu, yeah he is
[21:14] <Upu> ok
[21:14] <jcoxon> jonsowman, i can collect as well if needed
[21:14] <Upu> might be worth posting that prediction
[21:15] <jcoxon> is ed cunninningininigham coming?
[21:15] <jonsowman> jcoxon: i've got a car this year so it's all good :)
[21:15] <Upu> lol
[21:15] <jonsowman> jcoxon: i'll get in touch with ed
[21:15] <jcoxon> Upu, agreed
[21:15] <jonsowman> jcoxon: i think adam is coming
[21:15] <jcoxon> steve is coming too
[21:15] <number10> ed says he is working so cant comne - asked this morning
[21:16] <jcoxon> though he won't turn up to a bit later
[21:16] <jonsowman> number10: which ed?
[21:16] <jonsowman> jcoxon: that's fine i'm happy to help with setup
[21:16] <number10> edmoore
[21:16] <jonsowman> number10: we're talking about a different ed
[21:16] <jcoxon> jonsowman, where shall we track from?
[21:16] <number10> sorry
[21:16] <jonsowman> number10: no prob :)
[21:17] <jonsowman> jcoxon: how long are you wanting to track for? i'd like to be back home by 7-8 ish if possible
[21:18] <jcoxon> jonsowman, sounds good
[21:20] <fsphil> you aiming for the 2m/s ascent?
[21:20] <jcoxon> fsphil, yeah
[21:20] <jcoxon> either it'll float or we'll get a record
[21:20] <fsphil> hehe, either way win!
[21:25] <Jessica_Lily> back
[21:29] <griffonbot> @adamcudworth: @jamescoxon good luck with #Atlas tomorrow! #UKHAS [http://twitter.com/adamcudworth/status/134744588874289152]
[21:33] <jcoxon> oops
[21:33] <jcoxon> i should make a ATLAS flight doc
[21:36] <jcoxon> right
[21:36] <jcoxon> what are peoples thoughts on antennas just hanging off the coax
[21:40] <fsphil> bouncing around could be trouble
[21:41] <fsphil> I think that's what failed on my yorkshire one
[21:41] <fsphil> if it's taped down so it can't bounce, then should be fine
[21:41] <fsphil> I'd tape the connector too
[21:42] <Jessica_Lily> how much do the latex balloons cost?
[21:42] <Upu> depends on the size
[21:42] <Upu> £40-£120
[21:43] <Upu> 1600g are about £80
[21:43] <Upu> jcoxon as long as it can't move about and isn't likely to get caught anywhere should be ok
[21:44] <Upu> you can always hitch a life though Jessica_Lily, my last launch had 2 payloads under one balloon
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> wb Jessica_Lily
[21:45] <Lunar_Lander> jcoxon, when will you fly now?
[21:45] <Upu> which was actually a good job
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[21:48] <Jessica_Lily> hmm
[21:49] <TimZaman> anyone have a nice NTX2 inside a library
[21:49] <Upu> library for ?
[21:49] <Upu> Eagle ?
[21:49] <TimZaman> y
[21:49] <Upu> https://github.com/Upuaut/Eagle-Libraries
[21:49] <TimZaman> i already have a smdish version
[21:49] <Upu> ava.lbr
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[21:50] <TimZaman> ah k
[21:52] <TimZaman> Upu: they look very sweet.
[21:52] <TimZaman> Upu: whats that keep out area
[21:52] <Upu> where the crystal is
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[21:52] <Upu> you can put some small components under the NTX2 if you're saving space
[21:52] <TimZaman> so.. ? :)
[21:52] <Upu> 3mm clearance
[21:52] <Upu> apart from the area where the crystal is
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[21:53] <TimZaman> ah yeah i see you are very right
[21:53] <Jessica_Lily> how much does helium cost
[21:53] <TimZaman> Jessica_Lily: 100E per launch
[21:53] <Upu> £120 here
[21:53] <Upu> for a T Cylinder
[21:53] <Upu> and you'll need at least a T full on a larger balloon
[21:53] <TimZaman> I got a man now that gets it straight from the depot :)
[21:54] <Upu> sadly I don't
[21:54] <Upu> or just live on the edge and use Hydrogen
[21:54] <Jessica_Lily> i think i'd use hydrogen then
[21:54] <Jessica_Lily> :P im a chemist what can go wrong (everything!!!) xD
[21:54] <TimZaman> our cylinder: http://www.timzaman.nl/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/6322989401_dc3a072390_b.jpg
[21:54] <Upu> apart from the fact its explosive ?
[21:54] <TimZaman> highly explosive you say?
[21:55] <Jessica_Lily> i know its explosive
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[21:55] <Upu> also you have the issue if the balloon doesn't burst
[21:55] <TimZaman> but Upu.. lets say i want to put a v.reg. underneath it
[21:55] <Upu> and leaks
[21:55] <Upu> and comes down slow
[21:55] <x-f> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/why-the-world-is-running-out-of-helium-2059357.html
[21:55] <TimZaman> that doesnt seem smart, as i guess that emits some static crap right
[21:55] <Upu> you have 3000L of hydrogen
[21:55] <Upu> sat there
[21:55] <Upu> 3000m3 sorry
[21:56] <Upu> L ? m3 ?
[21:56] <Upu> alot
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[21:56] <Upu> Well Tim
[21:56] <Upu> funny you should mention it
[21:56] <TimZaman> ?
[21:56] <Upu> http://imagebin.org/183538
[21:56] <Upu> thats a work in progress and far from final PCB for Swift
[21:57] <TimZaman> two sma's?
[21:57] <Upu> note heatsinks and vregs directly under crystals on the otherside of the board
[21:57] <Upu> NTX2 and HX1 for APRS
[21:57] <TimZaman> Upu: so is that smart?
[21:57] <Upu> I don't know
[21:57] <Upu> which is why its work in progress
[21:57] <Upu> bacon is smart :)
[21:57] <TimZaman> hmmmmmmmm bacon
[21:58] <Upu> am I right haters ?
[21:58] <Upu> anyway enough epic meal time
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> Upu did you ground the balloon with the H2 on the James May filming?
[21:58] <Upu> the vregs are on the opposite side of the boards to the crystals
[21:58] <Upu> No Lunar_Lander
[21:58] <TimZaman> did you use Hydrogen with james may?
[21:58] <Upu> yes
[21:58] <TimZaman> okay why
[21:58] <Upu> it was a race hydrogen vs helium
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> cause of that DR suchandsuch
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> he always grinned into the camera
[21:59] <Upu> and I think they wanted to do some link in with a fuel cell and making their own Hydrogen but they didn't show it
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[21:59] <Upu> if you note on the pictures of the launch on my site there is a solar panel and behind it was a fuel cell
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:00] <Jessica_Lily> hmm& do you think you could use a solar panel to power maybe fans to continue the job when the balloons done its upmost
[22:01] <SpeedEvil> Jessica_Lily: Doesn't really work.
[22:01] <Jessica_Lily> nawhh that wouldn't work
[22:01] <Jessica_Lily> :P
[22:01] <SpeedEvil> The balloon is at that stage around 10m in diameter
[22:01] <Upu> given that 99% of the earths atmosphere is below you when the balloon has done their would be nothing for the fans to "grip"
[22:02] <Upu> rockets on the other hand...
[22:02] <SpeedEvil> Not strictly true.
[22:02] <Upu> (are illegal in the UK)
[22:02] <SpeedEvil> Plans have been amde for martian aircrat
[22:02] <SpeedEvil> Which is a similar regimen.
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[22:02] <SpeedEvil> But, for aateur stuff, it's gonna be tricky
[22:02] <SpeedEvil> amateur.
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> btw Upu do you know the epsisode of Mr Bean where he goes to the funfair?
[22:02] <Jessica_Lily> i want it to go future up :P
[22:03] <SpeedEvil> >
[22:03] <SpeedEvil> ?/
[22:03] <TimZaman> Upu: what would be best from a FTDI chip: leaving its RX floating or grounding it?
[22:03] <Upu> no idea Tim, check data sheet ?
[22:03] <TimZaman> doesnt say
[22:04] <Upu> pull down would be my first guess but I honestly have no idea
[22:04] <TimZaman> so grounding it
[22:04] <Upu> yeah via resistor
[22:04] <Randomskk> wouldn't it idle high
[22:04] <TimZaman> what, 10k?
[22:04] <Randomskk> to be honest I would leave it floating
[22:04] <TimZaman> Randomskk: why
[22:04] <Randomskk> datasheet should really say
[22:05] <Randomskk> oh, just because it's less effort
[22:05] <Randomskk> and you're less likely to, say, accidentally leave it the wrong way
[22:05] <TimZaman> yaeh okay but ive been having problem
[22:05] <Upu> can't argue with that :)
[22:05] <TimZaman> if you blast a LOT of info to the NTX2, after a while it gets stuck, typically at 70% of all the crap you throw at it
[22:05] <TimZaman> ehhhh
[22:05] <TimZaman> ntx2=ftdi
[22:05] <TimZaman> and then i always leave the rx floating
[22:06] <TimZaman> BUT - when i tell the ftdi through linux "cat /dev/FTDI > dump &" then it works, it kinda keeps the ftdi living or something
[22:07] <Randomskk> I think that's just because it has to buffer data if your computer is not actively reciving it
[22:07] <Randomskk> and then it runs out of buffer space
[22:07] <SpeedEvil> If it's floating, it can pick up static.
[22:07] <SpeedEvil> And ESD
[22:07] <Upu> ok afk dog needs a walk
[22:07] <Randomskk> unless it's internally pulled somewhere or whatever
[22:07] <TimZaman> yeah okay but if i send 1kb of data, it stops at ~70%, but when i send 1mb of data is still stops at ~70%
[22:07] <Randomskk> pulling it the correct way would be fine too
[22:09] <TimZaman> Upu whata do you get the SMA footprint
[22:09] <TimZaman> omg
[22:09] <TimZaman> got it
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[22:23] <Jessica_Lily> humm i probs should do some work
[22:24] <NigeyS> yuhuh
[22:24] <Jessica_Lily> blahh i don't want to :P
[22:24] <Upu> far too late for work
[22:24] <NigeyS> hah#
[22:24] <NigeyS> be lucky if i see my bed tonight :(
[22:25] <Lunar_Lander> doesn't sound good
[22:25] <Jessica_Lily> its all VSEPR/MO stuff
[22:25] <Jessica_Lily> its all crap :P
[22:25] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:26] <Jessica_Lily> o and the delightful hybridisation -.0
[22:26] <Jessica_Lily> * -.-
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[22:37] Nick change: NigeyS -> CaptainFlash
[22:39] Nick change: CaptainFlash -> NigeyS
[22:45] <griffonbot> Received email: James Coxon "[UKHAS] Re: Atlas 3 launch Friday 11/11/11 18:00ish"
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[22:46] <fsphil> shame you can't launch at 11:11:11 jcoxon
[22:47] <NigeyS> he'd have to launch in silence
[22:47] <jcoxon> yes
[22:47] <fsphil> aah
[22:47] <jcoxon> and hte universe will implode
[22:47] <Upu> still launching @ 18:00 or possibly earlier ?
[22:47] <fsphil> timing fail
[22:47] <Upu> sorry
[22:47] <Upu> ignore me
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[22:47] <Upu> l2read subject
[22:48] <NigeyS> lol
[22:48] <jcoxon> aiminig for 18
[22:48] <NigeyS> typing fail
[22:48] <NigeyS> its the night for it tonight lol
[22:48] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[22:50] <griffonbot> @jamescoxon: #atlasballoon Atlas 3 launch tomorrow (11/11/11) 1800 from Cambridge, aiming for 36km float, trackers very welcome. #ukhas [http://twitter.com/jamescoxon/status/134765006595162112]
[22:51] <number10> if the fiddling prediction comes tur - nosebleed can recover it for you
[22:52] <number10> tur == true
[22:56] <Laurenceb_> Randomskk: ping
[22:56] <Randomskk> hi
[22:56] <Laurenceb_> im trying to flash stm32 over bluetooth
[22:56] <Laurenceb_> its not working :(
[22:57] <Laurenceb_> i can set the RTS and DTR pins and enter bootloader mode
[22:57] <Laurenceb_> and exchange 1 packet
[22:57] <Laurenceb_> then nothing
[22:57] <griffonbot> Received email: Terry Baume "[UKHAS] Horus 18 launch Sunday 13/11/11"
[22:57] <Laurenceb_> it inits correctly
[22:57] <Laurenceb_> are there any timing requirements on the commands?
[22:57] <Jessica_Lily> blah im done with work for today :P
[22:58] <Laurenceb_> i thought maybe it was stripping characters
[22:58] <Laurenceb_> but i tried a loopback and it worked 100%
[22:58] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/8ft-x-4ft-x-1mm-aluminium-sheets-/280766246372?_trksid=p4340.m1374&_trkparms=algo%3DPI.WATCH%26its%3DC%252BS%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D5%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D4105809004033608835
[22:58] <SpeedEvil> meh
[22:59] <griffonbot> @m0taz: RT @jamescoxon #atlasballoon Atlas 3 launch tomorrow (11/11/11) 1800 from Cambridge, aiming for 36km float, trackers very welcome. #ukhas [http://twitter.com/m0taz/status/134767086605045762]
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[22:59] <Laurenceb_> holy shit
[23:00] <fsphil> is it glowing?
[23:00] <Laurenceb_> cheap if it goes at that price
[23:00] <Laurenceb_> i guess thats quite thin
[23:01] <SpeedEvil> Sure. I'd want to know the alloy too. But I can think of so many fun uses.
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[23:02] <Laurenceb_> Randomskk: did you ever see a problem where the stm32 goes past init, but stm32loader.py times out on bootloader version check?
[23:02] <Randomskk> sometimes
[23:03] <Randomskk> usually at that point I check the BOOT0 pin is correct and reset it
[23:03] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[23:04] <Laurenceb_> the BOOT0 works ok - i can check it with the scope and i never get the 'set BOOT0' warning error
[23:05] <Laurenceb_> i need to run more tests i guess
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[23:07] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: The above aluminium - if made into a sphere, and filled with hydrogen - will float.
[23:07] <SpeedEvil> (just)
[23:07] <Laurenceb_> hehe
[23:07] Action: SpeedEvil ponders getting CAA approval.
[23:07] <Laurenceb_> that wont deflate very fast
[23:07] <SpeedEvil> Also - UV stable.
[23:07] <Laurenceb_> lol
[23:08] <Laurenceb_> welding could be tricky
[23:08] <Laurenceb_> but probably easier than plastic wleding once you have the kit
[23:08] <SpeedEvil> Mere engineering details.
[23:08] Action: Laurenceb_ is having a bad day
[23:09] <Laurenceb_> stm32 bluetooth broken
[23:09] <SpeedEvil> :/
[23:09] <Laurenceb_> now openpilotgcs is segfaulting
[23:09] <Laurenceb_> i must have updated something badly
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[23:16] <Jessica_Lily> im going to bed folks
[23:16] <Jessica_Lily> night x
[23:16] Action: Jessica_Lily has gone *poof*
[23:16] <fsphil> nighers Jessica_Lily
[23:18] <griffonbot> @adamcudworth: RT @jamescoxon: #atlasballoon Atlas 3 launch tomorrow (11/11/11) 1800 from Cambridge, aiming for 36km float, trackers very welcome. #ukhas [http://twitter.com/adamcudworth/status/134771833164668928]
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[23:20] <Zuph> Ah, hot tea and cold, unfeeling circuit layout.
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[23:33] <Lunar_Lander> good night
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[23:42] <NigeyS> Research into producing electricity from urine has been carried out by scientists at the University of the West of England (UWE) in Bristol.
[23:42] <NigeyS> wonder how that performs at 36km :p
[23:42] <SpeedEvil> There is a more serious problem.
[23:43] <SpeedEvil> How do you A) Breath, and B) urinate without your winky dropping off at -55C
[23:43] <NigeyS> lol good point
[23:43] <Darkside> loool
[23:43] <NigeyS> Morning Darkside
[23:43] <Darkside> hi NigeyS
[23:44] <Darkside> we're doing an APRS launch this weekend!
[23:44] <Darkside> :P
[23:44] <NigeyS> i saw the notice on the list, be keen to see how that goes :D
[23:44] <SpeedEvil> Is APRS commo in .au?
[23:44] <Darkside> yes
[23:44] <NigeyS> you using ure compressed packet code ?
[23:44] <Darkside> nah
[23:44] <NigeyS> ah oki
[23:44] <Darkside> the compressed packets don't support altitude
[23:45] <Darkside> so we'd have to send that as a separate packet
[23:45] <Darkside> which is bull
[23:45] <NigeyS> oh right
[23:45] <Darkside> so we're using uncompressed packets
[23:45] <NigeyS> cool, mattltm has been testing aprs for Swift with the hx1, seems to be working nicely so far
[23:45] <Darkside> cool
[23:46] <Zuph> How's that PCB shaping up, NigeyS ?
[23:46] <Darkside> compressed packets aren't really required
[23:46] <Darkside> you just lower your packet period if needed
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[23:46] <NigeyS> pretty good Zuph latest brd is in the repo, think there's been a few minor changes, but we've done a freeze on edits for a week or so so we can get all the prototyping finished off
[23:46] <NigeyS> Darkside, true
[23:47] <Darkside> i'll try and get our fork of trackuino online sometime soon
[23:47] <NigeyS> awsome!
[23:49] <NigeyS> Zuph, http://imagebin.org/183538
[23:50] <Zuph> NigeyS: Lookin' good!
[23:50] <NigeyS> looking forward to soldering it ...................................NOT
[23:51] <fsphil> yay! eye strain!
[23:51] <SpeedEvil> Is that oldermasked?
[23:51] <NigeyS> err.. dunno, ask upu..lol
[23:51] <NigeyS> my brain = asleep
[23:52] <SpeedEvil> Night!
[23:55] <Zuph> 'bout to ship this one off to China: http://imgur.com/1QFa7
[23:57] <Randomskk> Zuph: interesting filter/matcher on the radio output there
[23:58] <Randomskk> have you considered inductive coupling?
[23:58] <Randomskk> all your inductors are in the same orientation
[23:58] <Randomskk> so rf could bypass the filter entirely
[23:59] <Randomskk> well I say 'all'
[23:59] <Darkside> Zuph: if that works
[23:59] <Randomskk> L202 isn't, but it is close to L201 which it's the same as
[23:59] <Randomskk> and then L203, L204, L205 are all the same
[23:59] <Darkside> Zuph: be aware i am stealing that design
[23:59] <Zuph> haha, yeah, if it works.
[23:59] <Darkside> *cough*
[23:59] <Darkside> if that works you are my new hero
[23:59] <Darkside> because we've been wanting to run an ADF7012 design for a while
[23:59] <Zuph> Randomskk: I'm copying the reference design for filter layout.
[00:00] --- Fri Nov 11 2011