highaltitude.log.20111104

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[03:39] <griffonbot> @LVL1WhiteStar: Announcing the first flight of White Star, burst test flight of a trans-Atlantic balloon: SPITBall-1, Sat Nov 19 2011 #UKHAS #Arhab #Hab [http://twitter.com/LVL1WhiteStar/status/132301001507094528]
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[07:24] <SamSilver_> reboot
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[07:51] <griffonbot> @CRAEG_AC: RT @0xD1: @CRAEG_AC #UKHAS D: >>RT @TWIAR: ARRL: Breaking the Amateur Radio Balloon Altitude Record http://t.co/rw6n2VVE [http://twitter.com/CRAEG_AC/status/132364304124084224]
[07:52] <Darkside> awww
[07:52] <Darkside> they broke my record
[07:53] <Darkside> i' not #3
[07:53] <Darkside> now*
[07:53] <number10> ahh
[07:55] <number10> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXHlSbbi1CI
[07:55] <number10> if they carry on you may need to borrow my nick for a while Darkside
[07:56] <Darkside> lol
[07:57] <earthshine> What was the type of antenna that guy used to receive the Apex flight who got the crazy distances?
[07:59] <number10> that Upu has a watson 50 colinear
[07:59] <number10> that was
[08:00] <earthshine> collinear - that's it - thanks
[08:12] <eroomde> i think also the discone wasn't far off
[08:12] <eroomde> most of the performance is from geography though
[08:13] <eroomde> you can have a stack of 4 yagis and have no chance compared to someone with a whip who lives on a hill
[08:13] <earthshine> I was thinking of getting the W50 and a portable mast
[08:13] <Darkside> hehe
[08:13] <Darkside> you guys need to find someone who lives on a hill, and set up a remote RX site
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[08:14] <earthshine> My garden is at 262 feet above sea level - not a massive hill but should give me some advantage
[08:15] <earthshine> hopefully
[08:17] <Upu> morning
[08:17] <earthshine> o/
[08:17] <Upu> yeah colinear but its 900feet asl or something which helps
[08:17] <Darkside> wha
[08:17] <Darkside> how
[08:17] <Upu> call hills Darkside
[08:18] <Upu> called
[08:18] <Darkside> heh
[08:18] <Darkside> jeez, only 7.2dB at 70cm
[08:18] <Darkside> the one i'm ordering gets 11.7dBi :P
[08:18] <Upu> its very small though
[08:19] <Darkside> mm 1.8m
[08:19] <Upu> and as proven I don't really need much more
[08:19] <Darkside> the one i'm looking at is 5m long
[08:19] <Darkside> speaking of which i need to get into the roof and check the pole i'm plannign on mounting it on is secure enough for it
[08:20] <earthshine> What one is that DarkSide ?
[08:20] <Darkside> Diamond X-520
[08:28] <eroomde> M0JCU who always does a sterling job uses a watson discone
[08:28] <eroomde> says he has really good results from it
[08:28] <earthshine> Not sure we can get that in the UK
[08:28] <eroomde> but again he's in bicester which is reasonably high and has decent LoS to East Anglia
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[08:40] <number10> save some money http://www.rason.org/Projects/collant/collant.htm
[08:43] <eroomde> agree with that too
[08:43] <eroomde> if you can make anything in this hobby, you can make antennas
[08:44] <eroomde> and it usually means you're more likely to try interesting things on a balloon
[08:44] <eroomde> .... like a colinear
[08:44] <eroomde> hrm there's a thought
[08:44] <eroomde> you may aswell optimise the antennas to radiate out to the horizon
[08:44] <eroomde> when it has a high relative elevation to a listener, it's necessarily much closer anyway
[08:45] <eroomde> so it doesn't matter that the radiation pattern isn't to downwards
[08:45] <eroomde> isn't so*
[08:47] <number10> that was the point I was trying to make to the students following Apex - you dont have to spend a lot to get started - I used a simple 1/4 wave taped to my old windurfer pole
[08:47] <number10> probably would have done better if I put it on the roof
[08:49] <number10> one thing I was wondering about how to make an antenna maybe antennas for the payload that would be good in the air but also good once landed
[08:52] <eroomde> yeah
[08:52] <eroomde> well, you really just need some way of not having it compressed against the ground
[08:52] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/CFugb.jpg i do not like the look of that pole
[08:53] <eroomde> maybe build it into a polystyrene roll cage so it lands and rolls onto its back
[08:53] <eroomde> antenna facing up
[08:53] <Upu> that Sir is pikey
[08:53] <Darkside> definitely not attaching a 5m long antenna to that
[08:57] <number10> I was wondereing if rob uses just two radials (rather than 4) on his payload antenna as it is less likely to get the antenna stuck in the ground
[08:57] <Upu> Ava had 2 radials
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[08:58] <number10> with the 4 radials the radiator always points downward
[08:58] <number10> was that the reason for it Upu?
[08:59] <Upu> Rob didn't seem to think you needed 4
[08:59] <Upu> 2 = less weight and less spikey bits
[08:59] <number10> yes
[08:59] <Upu> also storing a 4 radial antenna is a night mare
[09:00] <eroomde> nerdbit: the radials are there to approximate and infinitely long flat ground plane
[09:00] <eroomde> that ground plane, with a 1/4 wave active element, is theoretically the same impedance as a perfect dipole - 50 ohm
[09:00] <number10> I did try dropping my one with 4 radials several times and always the radiator gets stuck on the ground
[09:00] <Darkside> eroomde: *cough*
[09:00] <Darkside> 36.5 + 21.5j
[09:00] <eroomde> so, the number of radialds question: the more and the longer, the better the approximation of that ground plane
[09:00] <GW8RAK> You can get away with 3 radials, but 2 is not enough
[09:00] <Darkside> which has a magnitude of about 42 ohms i think
[09:01] <number10> ahh I feel a good debate comming
[09:01] <Upu> well 2 radials seem to work fine....
[09:01] <number10> *number10 is a complete novice so will keep quiet and listen
[09:01] <eroomde> so 4 radials of over 1/4wavelength long is something like 95% of the impedance of the ideal - which is impressive
[09:01] <GW8RAK> no radial will also work, but not as well as 3 or more.
[09:01] <eroomde> and 2 will be less obviously, but it'll probably still work of course
[09:02] <eroomde> as we've seen, as long as you have LoS you don't reall have much of a problem
[09:02] <GW8RAK> And with weak signals, we want as much to get out as possible
[09:02] <Darkside> >>> math.sqrt(36.5*36.5 + 21.5*21.5)
[09:02] <Darkside> 42.36153915995027
[09:02] <eroomde> i mean 90% vs 95% of ideal is fractions of a dB - less than most people would want to care about
[09:02] <Darkside> still only a SQR of 1:1.2 anyway
[09:02] <NigelMoby> Picochu had 2 radials and we tracked with just a whip
[09:02] <Darkside> which is still pretty good
[09:03] <GW8RAK> But if the 5% difference results in some signal or no signal, that does make it significant
[09:03] <eroomde> yes indeed
[09:03] <eroomde> and infact it does make a difference because these few perfect manifest themselves not in the air during normal flight (everyone can hear fine) but how low it gets on the way down that you can hear it
[09:04] <eroomde> which can really help in predicting the landing spot if you can't hear it once it's down
[09:04] <GW8RAK> Signals at the limit of detection are where every uW counts
[09:05] <eroomde> so, if you have a nominal flight and it's still transmitting niely on the ground, you probably won't have a problem with using any old bit wire as your antenna. but if you start to have a problem, you might wish you did go for something with a better gain
[09:05] <eroomde> or better matched, i guess to be more correct
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[09:07] <GW8RAK> Absolutely. In flight reception is not a problem, it is when it gets close to the ground or, with current floaters, at great range.
[09:07] <eroomde> i've seen enough instances of flights that stop Txing on the ground and so the chase crew have to work from the last recorded good string
[09:08] <eroomde> and the difference between 300m and 100m is enormous in your search area
[09:08] <Darkside> this is why your NTX2 modules should be tied up
[09:08] <Darkside> i mean, the enable pin should be tied up
[09:08] <eroomde> it's usually batteries
[09:08] <Darkside> ahh
[09:08] <eroomde> i rabbit on about batteries but its' true
[09:08] <eroomde> tey need to be really taped into their holder and the holder must be securely fastened
[09:08] <eroomde> so you don't get power wires yanking on the flight computer or battery holder
[09:08] <WillDuckworth> ^ agreed
[09:10] <eroomde> i've definitely had it as blatant is people coming to churchill for a help with launch, me saying 'i'd secure your battery holder a bit better if I were you', them saying 'nah it'll be fine' and then having the batteries dosconnect on a bumpy landing. i can only do so much. but as i always say, if you feel uncomfortable about throwing your payload down your stairs, you should question whether or not you should be lfying it
[09:11] <eroomde> cos they really can land with a bump, and loosing Tx really is a bit of a bugger.
[09:11] <eroomde> having to search a square kilometer in a wooded area is just insanely difficult. it can take days
[09:12] <eroomde> nova 11 had exactly this problem, we had to give up at sunset, run about a 5000 case montecarlo overnight to try and get a better landing spot prediction, then search for several hours the next day, and that wa sjust ina field
[09:12] <eroomde> found it in a gulley a bit wet
[09:13] <eroomde> the strairs check is a good one for antennas too - a lot of them are a bit flimsy and they can get properly pranged by lines during launch and turbulence on the way up
[09:14] <earthshine> Aren't most of the antennas on the payloads flexible wires?
[09:14] <eroomde> a surprising number of people launch exactly that
[09:14] <eroomde> but it's really not robust!
[09:15] <eroomde> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/4721971075/in/set-72157624203062811
[09:15] <earthshine> So what do you recommend?
[09:15] <eroomde> so that's a payload I made for a flight last year
[09:15] <earthshine> Is it hard wire?
[09:15] <eroomde> i have put the active element inside some copper pipe insulation foam - soft and safe, but quite stiff and will spring back into shape
[09:15] <eroomde> no soft wire
[09:15] <eroomde> cos you need to maintain eye-proof-ness
[09:16] <eroomde> and then the radials are heatsthrunk onto thick cable ties
[09:16] <earthshine> So the same as the wire in the straw thing that most people use but made a lot more bump-proof ?
[09:16] <eroomde> which again are flexible but will spring back into shape
[09:16] <eroomde> exactly that earthshine
[09:16] <eroomde> and it means that if it lands, it's likely to fall over onto its side
[09:16] <eroomde> so the antenna will transmit better on the ground
[09:16] <earthshine> Cool
[09:16] <eroomde> rather than land on, and crush, wires in drinking straws
[09:17] <earthshine> Do you have any close ups of those?
[09:17] <eroomde> just having a poke around
[09:17] <eroomde> i'm on a new laptop so not everything is at hand
[09:18] <eroomde> another photo after landing http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/4711545681/in/set-72157624203062811
[09:18] <number10> is the wire used for the antenna flexible or stiff copper singe trand?
[09:18] <number10> single
[09:18] <eroomde> we flew several payloads on the flight, the foreground was for an android phone
[09:18] <eroomde> number10: multicore
[09:19] <earthshine> Must have been a heavy flight
[09:19] <eroomde> about 3.5kg iirc
[09:19] <eroomde> including parachute and everything
[09:20] <eroomde> 4 x ~ 700g payloads, parachute, string
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[09:20] <earthshine> wow that is heavy
[09:20] <eroomde> the nice thing is that although it's heavy absolutely, it lands as 4 smaller softer bumps
[09:20] <eroomde> you can see the launch in this vid http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/4721830907/in/set-72157624203062811
[09:21] <earthshine> Yeah just watched that
[09:21] <earthshine> very long too
[09:21] <eroomde> yeah - helps dampen down oscillations i think
[09:22] <eroomde> we've done multi-payloads before with shorter lengths and they can do some seriouslly chaotic multi-pendulum stuff
[09:22] <earthshine> I will probably put some streamers on the bottom of mine
[09:23] <eroomde> yeah they are quite effective at damping
[09:23] <eroomde> also if they're made from bright orange nylon parachute material, you can see them really well
[09:23] <eroomde> they 'float' ontop of crops, whereas heavier payloads fall through to the ground
[09:25] <earthshine> Not sure where I could buy that - any ideas?
[09:25] <eroomde> i got some off ebay
[09:25] <eroomde> about 1m wide, 25m long roll
[09:25] <earthshine> Is it known as ripstop ?
[09:26] <eroomde> yes that's the stuff
[09:26] <eroomde> we used it to make streamers for this flight: http://vimeo.com/3803248
[09:26] <eroomde> and this was from pegasus V - http://www.flickr.com/photos/eroomde/478718274/in/set-72157600160879866
[09:26] <GW8RAK> In the UK, there are a couple of fabric suppliers who'll supply that. Pennine Outdoor or Point North
[09:26] <eroomde> notice how the orange parachute is clear as day
[09:26] <earthshine> yeah
[09:26] <eroomde> if it was not daylo though we'd have had no chance. you can't even see the payload box next to it
[09:27] <eroomde> so the dayglo stuff reall helps see it from a few hundred meters away in green fields
[09:27] <GW8RAK> I've even got some very nice pink ultra light nylon at work
[09:27] <GW8RAK> Ideal for fsphil
[09:31] <earthshine> What where those streamers attached to? They looked like eye gougers to me
[09:31] <eroomde> fibreglass rods
[09:31] <eroomde> they had foam balls at the end
[09:34] <Laurenceb_> eroomde: for debugging - ive got nemiver working
[09:34] <Laurenceb_> dunno if its usable on osx
[09:34] <Laurenceb_> i tried insight, but i need something i can link up to arm-gdb
[09:34] <eroomde> ah interesting
[09:35] <eroomde> thanks Laurenceb_
[09:35] <eroomde> ah it needs boost
[09:35] <eroomde> boost and llvm seem to not get along atm
[09:36] <Laurenceb_> working really well with F4discovery
[09:36] <eroomde> jealous :)
[09:36] <eroomde> f4s seem to be the bomb
[09:36] <Laurenceb_> and the GUI doesnt look like its from the 90s
[09:36] <Laurenceb_> :P
[09:37] <Laurenceb_> i had to upgrade to version 0.8.2+
[09:38] <Laurenceb_> which isnt in the repose for ubuntu
[09:39] <Laurenceb_> insight has to be recompiled for your gdb target
[09:39] <number10> interesting stuff ed. It would be good to see you do a talk about your CU flights, especially highlighting all the leasons that you learned from each
[09:39] <number10> maybe you could do one at the next conference
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[09:44] <earthshine> Lol - I just realised who ermoode is - Hello Ed
[09:44] <earthshine> I didn't think to look at the nick backwards
[09:44] <earthshine> DOH!
[09:45] <earthshine> eroomde i mean
[09:46] <eroomde> lol
[09:46] <eroomde> yes
[09:46] <eroomde> sorry
[09:46] <eroomde> it does confuse people
[09:47] <eroomde> number10: yeah, i went to ta talk but a shuttle guy recently
[09:47] <eroomde> and it was really just 'lessons learned'
[09:47] <eroomde> and it was pure gold
[09:47] <eroomde> some amazing insights to share
[09:47] <eroomde> so i've been reading a few of the nasa 'lessons learned on x' publications they've started doing, and there's some great stuff
[09:47] <number10> I learn quite a lot here once an interesting discussion starts
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[09:49] <eroomde> well we had the advantage of being students, so being able to get enough money in sponsorship to make a lot of mistakes on early flights without being put off because it was our own money (although it often was when you actually did the sums..) so we learned a lot of stuff the hard way
[09:49] <number10> have to pop out unfortunately - I look forward to your CU space flight talk at the next conference then eroomde - and by then you will have launched your post CU balloon ;-)
[09:49] <eroomde> but those are the lessons that stay with you right :)
[09:50] <eroomde> i'm looking forward to the next conference too!
[09:50] <eroomde> really enjoyed this year's one
[09:52] Action: Laurenceb_ is getting very confused about compilers
[09:53] <Laurenceb_> codesourcery has been bought by mentor graphics :S
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[09:58] <Laurenceb_> and the latest version has vanished O_o
[10:00] <steve|m> Laurenceb_: just compile a standard gnuarm-toolchain
[10:00] <Laurenceb_> is it decent tho?
[10:01] <Laurenceb_> im going from ages ago, but codesourcery annihilated plain gcc
[10:01] <zyp> codesourcery patches gets merged to gcc mainline, no?
[10:02] <eroomde> summon arm toolchain?
[10:02] <eroomde> people say nice things about that
[10:02] <eroomde> fergusnoble is working with the guy who wrote ti too, I beleive
[10:02] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[10:02] <Laurenceb_> <-cautions
[10:03] <zyp> at home I'm just using the yagarto package
[10:03] <Laurenceb_> **cautious even
[10:03] <eroomde> zyp: i'm using yagarto too
[10:03] <steve|m> good question, our stuff works fine at least.. we run a GSM layer 1 implementation on a phone with an ARM7TDMI processor
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[10:04] <steve|m> http://bb.osmocom.org/trac/wiki/GnuArmToolchain
[10:05] <zyp> I'm planning on testing clang/llvm for arm one day
[10:05] <zyp> but last time I checked support for cortex-m was still limited
[10:05] <Laurenceb_> its hard to keep track of all this :(
[10:06] <fsphil> ooh busy channel this morning
[10:08] <eroomde> post rate normalised for channel occupants vs time for the last few years would be an interesting graph
[10:08] <Laurenceb_> well atm i have gcc4.4
[10:08] <Laurenceb_> yagarto uses 4.6
[10:09] <zyp> yep
[10:10] <Laurenceb_> oh and M4 wasnt added until 4.6
[10:10] <Laurenceb_> guess ill try yagarto
[10:11] <Laurenceb_> anyway, bbl
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[10:30] <joph> good morning
[11:04] <steve|m> zyp: yes, I tested clang for arm on our project a few months ago... I had to use gcc's assembler though, since the internal-asm has some serious issues
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[12:08] <Laurenceb> back
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[13:01] <UpuWork> Anyone want a breakout board seems you can get quite alot on 160mmx100mm :)
[13:01] <UpuWork> http://imagebin.org/182428
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[13:07] <NigelMoby> Lol Upuwork just a few eh
[13:14] <UpuWork> yeah one or two :)
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[13:16] <Darkside> UpuWork: haven't you heard of tended vias :P
[13:16] <Darkside> tented*
[13:16] <UpuWork> no
[13:16] <Darkside> >_>
[13:16] <UpuWork> I clicked via and thats what I got
[13:17] <Darkside> its where the via is covered in solder mask, so you don't short out anything that sits above the via
[13:17] <Darkside> like... a ublox module
[13:17] <UpuWork> hmm
[13:17] <Darkside> it should be ok
[13:17] <Darkside> the bottom of the module has solder mask on it anyway
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[13:17] <zyp> in eagle you have a setting telling it that all vias under that size should be tented
[13:17] Action: UpuWork goes and checks Eagle
[13:17] <Darkside> its just an added precaution
[13:18] <UpuWork> learning learning...
[13:18] <zyp> UpuWork, it's under DRC, minimum size for stop-something
[13:21] <UpuWork> http://www.sparkfun.com/tutorials/115
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[13:38] <NigelMoby> How's the board going darkside?
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[14:37] Nick change: SamSilver -> SamSilver_
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[15:00] <eroomde> nice work UpuWork
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[15:15] <TimZaman> hi
[15:20] <UpuWork> cheers eroomde
[15:20] <UpuWork> afternoon TimZaman
[15:20] <TimZaman> Hey
[15:22] <TimZaman> whats new
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[16:16] <W0OTM> gm
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[16:57] <NigelMoby> Gm marshal
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[18:00] <joph> http://www.dealextreme.com/p/mathmark-cn-500s-5w-136-171mhz-400-470mhz-16-channel-walkie-talkie-black-103990 <<< why can't have this device ssb? >.<
[18:03] <fsphil-laptop> price :)
[18:03] <fsphil-laptop> that's really neat though, even if it does just do FM
[18:05] <fsphil-laptop> wonder how well it works
[18:05] <joph> probably it's possible to mod it
[18:05] <fsphil-laptop> not sure you could mode it to do SSB? if it did AM then you might be able to
[18:06] <fsphil-laptop> £26 .. that's really tempting
[18:06] <joph> i don't know the internal hardware
[18:06] <fsphil-laptop> even though I have no use for it :)
[18:07] <joph> sometimes it's just a small modification necessary and a few more options will be available
[18:07] <Zuph> I have one of the $100 chinese HTs.
[18:07] <Zuph> The Wouxun.
[18:10] <joph> link?
[18:11] <russss> joph: these are nicer. http://www.virtualvillage.co.uk/puxing-mini-ham-radio-px-2r-uhf-400-470mhz-001531-108.html?utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=shcomp&utm_campaign=google_shopping_feed
[18:11] <russss> no SSB though
[18:11] <joph> wow
[18:11] <russss> ah and that's UHF only
[18:11] <joph> 33$ is also great ;)
[18:11] <russss> they are nice radios though, and not too incomprehensible
[18:12] <Zuph> Not sure of a source in the UK, but here's a US source for the wouxun: http://wouxun.us/
[18:12] <russss> I got two Puxing radios for £60 inc shipping (iirc) from hong kong
[18:12] <russss> including the programming cable
[18:13] <joph> i just nead uhf
[18:15] <russss> I would recommend Puxing (I mainly use them on the unlicensed PMR bands in the UK, which may or may not be strictly legal)
[18:15] <russss> (especially on 5W power)
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[18:26] <fsphil-laptop> I think that falls on the side of "not" :)
[18:26] <fsphil-laptop> but who's gonna notice
[18:27] <fsphil-laptop> I think my yaesu can do 446mhz
[18:38] <mattltm> the binatone action 950 radios are ggreat if you want to stay legal, which you should :)
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[18:38] <russss> the stock FT-817 will refuse to transmit on PMR frequencies
[18:39] <russss> I have tried.
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[18:47] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[18:51] <Lunar_Lander> hey NigeyS
[18:51] <NigeyS> hey Kev
[18:51] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
[18:51] <NigeyS> good thanks, and you ?
[18:52] <Lunar_Lander> little better, thanks
[18:52] <Lunar_Lander> pain has reduced and I can at least sit again
[19:00] <NigeyS> :)
[19:01] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:01] <Lunar_Lander> and on the 15th they will shoot an injection into my back
[19:01] <Lunar_Lander> put me asleep
[19:02] <Lunar_Lander> and cut a rhombic section out of me
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[19:03] <Zuph> What'd you do, Lunar_Lander ?
[19:05] grummund (~user@unaffiliated/grummund) joined #highaltitude.
[19:06] <Lunar_Lander> there is a cyst that has grown in my lower back
[19:07] <Zuph> That is no good.
[19:13] Action: SpeedEvil recently sorted one of those useing a scalpel and a webcam.
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[19:14] <Randomskk> SpeedEvil: you autosurgeried?
[19:14] <Lunar_Lander> brb
[19:15] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
[19:24] <Laurenceb_> webcam was for 4chans benefit?
[19:25] <SpeedEvil> It was on my back.
[19:26] <joph> Lunar_Lander, lumbar punch?
[19:27] <joph> * which thing cut they out?
[19:28] <fsphil-laptop> russss, VX-5 will
[19:28] <fsphil-laptop> with persuasion :)
[19:32] <fsphil-laptop> or the 7R even
[19:32] <fsphil-laptop> too many model numbers
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[21:12] <Lunar_Lander> back
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[21:21] <fsphil-laptop> re
[21:21] <Lunar_Lander> wb fsphil-laptop
[21:21] <fsphil-laptop> I wasn't far :)
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> I thought my PC communicated with the Iran but that was a false indication
[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> it was just Holland fortunately
[21:25] <fsphil-laptop> gotta be wary of those dutch folk too
[21:26] <fsphil-laptop> one minute they're all clogs and windmills, the next they're hacking your computer
[21:27] <Lunar_Lander> xD!
[21:27] <Lunar_Lander> cause all I did was opening one of those africa e-mails to read what shit they would write
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> and that was on the spam folder of my mail provider which was set to text-only
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> (and I have NoScript=
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[21:47] <NigeyS> speaking of dutch people :p
[21:47] <NigeyS> ello Dutch-Mill
[21:47] <Dutch-Mill> Hi
[21:47] <NigeyS> how's things ?
[21:48] <Dutch-Mill> busy...
[21:49] <NigeyS> :/
[21:49] <Dutch-Mill> almost finished my renovation @home ....so there is time to do some HAB tracking this week
[21:50] <NigeyS> excellent!
[21:50] <fsphil-laptop> lots going on this weekend
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> I think when Tim flies, I can hear that here again
[21:51] <NigeyS> yah, and im bloody grounded, unlessi can deadbug a ublox6 and antenna.... lol
[21:52] <Dutch-Mill> yep ...sunday ALPHA and monday Tim's ' TEDflyer' ;-)
[21:52] <Upu> well Sunday may just well be still up on Monday :)
[21:52] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[21:53] <fsphil-laptop> lets hope there's not a frequency clash
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> we get another ALPHA?
[21:53] <fsphil-laptop> alpha-style flight
[21:53] <fsphil-laptop> not actually alpha
[21:53] <fsphil-laptop> Atlas 3
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[21:55] <Dutch-Mill> ... it was a busy HAB autumn this year.. @Lunar any plans for the German airspace?
[21:55] <fsphil-laptop> I'll eat my hat when Lunar_Lander launches :)
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> xD!
[21:56] <fsphil-laptop> (I don't really have a hat, so you're safe to go anytime)
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> Dutch-Mill, maybe early 2012
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> I have to undergo surgery first
[21:59] <Dutch-Mill> oke cool ... wait east winds ;-)
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> oh damn
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> I still feel not that well
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> I hope that settles
[21:59] <fsphil-laptop> yucky stuff, it'll get out of your system soon enough
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> I shouldn't have taken that antibiotic without breakfast
[22:03] <Dutch-Mill> ..must go now SeeY sunday/monday... and if Atlas 3 keep spinning over Europe...the rest of the week too
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> Upu found people in Poland this time IIRC?
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[22:34] <Laurenceb_> just got a load of shopping for -£8.42
[22:35] <SpeedEvil> Cunning.
[22:35] <SpeedEvil> How?
[22:35] <SpeedEvil> My Skillz are limited to saving 45 quid on a 75 quid bill for tuesday.
[22:35] <Laurenceb_> lots of deals that hadnt been entered correctly, then automated checkout
[22:35] <Laurenceb_> it just chucked me out a load of cash
[22:35] <SpeedEvil> Where?
[22:37] <Laurenceb_> sainsburys
[22:37] <Laurenceb_> tea bags - they had reduced them by miles but not taken off the multibuy
[22:39] <SpeedEvil> Ah.
[22:40] <SpeedEvil> Tesco is doing odd 'buy one get two free'
[22:40] <SpeedEvil> So I'm getting 18*4 cans of branston baked beans.
[22:41] <Lunar_Lander> multibuy?
[22:41] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[22:41] <SpeedEvil> And 21Kg of flour.
[22:41] <Laurenceb_> lol
[22:41] <SpeedEvil> err - 31.5Kg
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[22:42] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:47] Action: SpeedEvil mehs. http://www.yr.no/place/United_Kingdom/Scotland/Glenrothes/hour_by_hour.html - first blue of the year.
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[22:58] <jcoxon> evening all
[23:02] <jcoxon> need some help with some arduino code if anyone is around
[23:05] <fsphil-laptop> hullo jcoxon
[23:06] <Lunar_Lander> hi jcoxon
[23:06] <NigeyS> hey j
[23:07] <jcoxon> basically i'm not happy at all with my code for setting the ublox to airborne mode
[23:09] <fsphil-laptop> how are you doing it?
[23:10] <jcoxon> http://pastebin.com/ZYGj7B4r
[23:10] <jcoxon> its based on the wiki code
[23:11] <jcoxon> my problem is that i'm working all tomorrow and am worried i'm not going to get it sorted
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[23:14] <NigeyS> jcoxon, i was gonna look at the ublox code on the wiki for mine to hehe not used a ublox before
[23:14] <NigeyS> hey juxta
[23:14] <fsphil-laptop> do you send the command just once or regularly?
[23:15] <juxta> hi NigeyS
[23:15] <fsphil-laptop> I based my own code of the wiki's commands
[23:15] <jcoxon> i was going to run setupGPS every 200 cycles
[23:15] <jcoxon> but i don't think its actually working!
[23:16] <fsphil-laptop> do you transmit the result of the command? some kind of message if it fails?
[23:16] <jcoxon> yes
[23:16] <jcoxon> its in the tx string
[23:16] <NigeyS> can the chip not sore the airbourne setting by connecting a battery james ?
[23:16] <NigeyS> store*
[23:17] <jcoxon> not sure
[23:17] <jcoxon> http://pastebin.com/BfEK2wrf
[23:18] <fsphil-laptop> what's the Serial.println(); for?
[23:18] <fsphil-laptop> in sendUBX
[23:19] <jcoxon> ummm
[23:19] <jcoxon> not sure
[23:19] <NigeyS> isnt that to send back the reply ?
[23:20] <jcoxon> oh
[23:20] <juxta> fsphil, jcoxon - that sends a newline
[23:20] <jcoxon> yes it is
[23:20] <jcoxon> its that where things are going wrong?
[23:20] <fsphil-laptop> you don't need that
[23:20] <NigeyS> i was so close! lol
[23:20] <fsphil-laptop> not sure it could cause a failure though
[23:20] <juxta> fsphil-laptop, I think you need to terminate ubx strings with a newline, don't you?
[23:20] <jcoxon> its a good point
[23:21] <jcoxon> looking at the example code
[23:21] <jcoxon> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/guides:falcom_fsa03
[23:21] <fsphil-laptop> juxta, I didn't, seemed to work fine
[23:21] <juxta> is it not working for you jcoxon?
[23:22] <juxta> hmm, okay. I must have thought a newline was needed when I wrote that code
[23:22] <jcoxon> last time i checked it wasn't
[23:22] <jcoxon> juxta, but in your code nss is comms with the gps
[23:22] <jcoxon> not serial
[23:22] <fsphil-laptop> but really it shouldn't matter
[23:22] <juxta> true, the serial.println() is just a newline for debug then
[23:23] <juxta> in the real world I use the same code with the GPS connected to the real serial port though
[23:23] <jcoxon> juxta, yeah but the new line wouldn't be there i guess
[23:24] <fsphil-laptop> I seem to have a different set of bytes for the acknowledgement:
[23:24] <jcoxon> juxta, do you have the flight tested function avaliable?
[23:24] <fsphil-laptop> PROGMEM uint8_t ubx_setnav_ack[] = { 0x05,0x01,0x02,0x00,0x06,0x24 };
[23:24] <juxta> yeah, just a moment
[23:26] <fsphil-laptop> ooh you query the nav mode after
[23:26] <fsphil-laptop> mine just reads the ack for the command to set it
[23:28] <juxta> jcoxon, http://pastebin.com/qjeRF5p9
[23:28] <juxta> the debug stuff isnt compiled in normally
[23:30] <jcoxon> juxta, okay i might just steal that
[23:30] <jcoxon> so you just wait for hte ack command
[23:31] <juxta> yeah
[23:32] <juxta> fsphil-laptop, your ack packet looks quite different
[23:32] <juxta> hmm
[23:33] <fsphil-laptop> it doesn't include the first two bytes
[23:33] <fsphil-laptop> starts at byte 2
[23:34] <fsphil-laptop> index 2
[23:34] <juxta> oh, right
[23:34] <jcoxon> juxta, what do you call to set the mode/
[23:34] <jcoxon> ?
[23:34] <juxta> airborne mode?
[23:35] <juxta> jcoxon, http://pastebin.com/GNMx2B2W
[23:35] <jcoxon> thanks
[23:35] <Darkside> \o
[23:35] <juxta> np
[23:35] <juxta> hey Darkside
[23:36] <Darkside> hi juxta
[23:36] <juxta> Darkside has built the payloads we've flown recently - afaik the UBX code hasnt changed though, has it Darkside?
[23:36] <Darkside> hasn't changed at all
[23:37] <Darkside> matt may be doing some changes in the future though
[23:37] <Darkside> to get teh power usage down
[23:38] <juxta> oh cool, low power modes and the like?
[23:38] <Darkside> yup
[23:38] <juxta> nice.
[23:38] <juxta> any luck jcoxon?
[23:38] <jcoxon> juxta, the problem is i'm away from my payload
[23:39] <jcoxon> so will have to test tomorrow
[23:39] <juxta> ah :P
[23:39] <jcoxon> but i'm getting hte code ready so i'll just upload it and go
[23:39] <juxta> oh - are you launching tomorrow?
[23:39] <jcoxon> sunday
[23:39] <juxta> Darkside, how hot is it @ your place?
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[23:39] <Darkside> juxta: uhmmm
[23:40] <Darkside> temp probe says 22 degrees outside my window
[23:40] <Darkside> but i am on the second floor
[23:40] <Darkside> so it'll be warmer
[23:40] <Darkside> kent town is 30 degrees
[23:40] <juxta> bah, it's really hot here
[23:40] <Darkside> my room is very cool
[23:40] <Darkside> AC is on :P
[23:40] <juxta> foil also?
[23:41] <NigeyS> hey Darkside
[23:41] <Darkside> juxta: yeah
[23:41] <juxta> jcoxon, what sort of launch have you got planned?
[23:41] <Darkside> juxta: its actually helping a lot
[23:41] <Darkside> hey NigeyS
[23:41] <juxta> I imagine it would be
[23:41] <jcoxon> juxta, planned 26km float
[23:41] <jcoxon> 36*
[23:41] <juxta> doesnt it make it really dark though?
[23:41] <juxta> oh wow
[23:41] <Darkside> juxta: yep, quite dark in here
[23:41] <juxta> heading into europe somewhere then?
[23:41] <jcoxon> yeah but slowly
[23:42] <jcoxon> the weather is very calm
[23:42] <jcoxon> if float for 24hrs will only be in france/belgium
[23:42] <juxta> oh that's not too bad at all
[23:42] <jcoxon> juxta, the aim is to see if we can acheive float at night
[23:42] <Darkside> also, a US group broke my latex balloon altitude record...
[23:42] <Darkside> by 1km!
[23:42] <NigeyS> lol
[23:43] <juxta> jcoxon, seems to happen all too easily when you don't want it to
[23:43] <jcoxon> indeed
[23:43] <jcoxon> juxta, maybe i'll get an alt record instead
[23:44] <juxta> either/or :D
[23:44] <Darkside> haha
[23:44] <jcoxon> juxta, if we can get a float at night that potentially means we can fly for 36hrs (night/day/night/sunrise burst)
[23:44] <juxta> Darkside, I took that failed drive back to MSY. They say 1 month for RMA, gah.
[23:44] <jcoxon> which is nearly trans-atlanticable
[23:44] <juxta> oh wow
[23:44] <Darkside> juxta: thats bullshit
[23:44] <juxta> that would be awesome
[23:44] <Darkside> jcoxon: do you have APRS on this payload?
[23:45] <juxta> reason being they don't have the particular model anymore
[23:45] <jcoxon> Darkside, not this one
[23:45] <jcoxon> didn't have time - the weather was just too good
[23:45] <jcoxon> but i've got french contacts
[23:45] <jcoxon> hysplit at the max alt it'll let me float at shows this: http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hysplitout/13967_trj001.gif
[23:47] <juxta> i had better go mow the lawn before it gets even hotter
[23:47] <juxta> back later on
[23:47] <Darkside> cya juxta
[23:47] <jcoxon> right time to work
[23:47] <jcoxon> oops
[23:47] <jcoxon> i mean bed
[23:47] <jcoxon> i've got Work tomorrow
[23:49] jcoxon (~jcoxon@20.123.125.91.rb5.adsl.brightview.com) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[23:55] <Lunar_Lander> btw Darkside
[23:55] <Lunar_Lander> we Amateurs beat PBH!
[23:55] <Lunar_Lander> YES!
[23:58] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.demon.co.uk) left irc: Quit: Bye
[00:00] --- Sat Nov 5 2011