highaltitude.log.20111102

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[00:25] <NigeyS> evening Dan
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[00:25] <Dan-K2VOL> evening someone
[00:26] <NigeyS> lol charming
[00:26] <Dan-K2VOL> who's there
[00:26] <Dan-K2VOL> ah NigeyS
[00:26] <NigeyS> hey dan :)
[00:26] <Dan-K2VOL> sorry, was updating my client when it hollered in my headphones as it quit
[00:26] <Dan-K2VOL> you're up late
[00:27] <NigeyS> hehe yeah, just finishing up some soldering
[00:27] <Dan-K2VOL> oh what ya workin on
[00:27] <Dan-K2VOL> I think I just found Hibby's tablet pc stylus in my bookbag!
[00:28] <NigeyS> hah he'll be thrilled! .. just getting a pcb ready for picochu-3
[00:28] <Darkside> meganut?
[00:28] <Dan-K2VOL> nice!
[00:29] <NigeyS> Darkside, yups
[00:38] <NigeyS> is 380c to hot ? :|
[00:38] <Dan-K2VOL> too hot for soldering?
[00:38] <BrainDamage> depends, are you trying to make a silicon foundry? then no
[00:38] <BrainDamage> it's cold
[00:38] <NigeyS> yup, never actually checked to see what temp i should be using..lol
[00:38] <BrainDamage> is it leaded, or rohs solder?
[00:39] <NigeyS> unleaded
[00:39] <Darkside> oh what
[00:39] <Darkside> don't use lead-free solder
[00:39] <Darkside> its shit
[00:39] <NigeyS> 99.3% silver
[00:39] <Dan-K2VOL> uhh yeah
[00:39] <Dan-K2VOL> and expensive!
[00:39] <Darkside> use leaded solder
[00:39] <Dan-K2VOL> what are you soldering?
[00:39] <BrainDamage> 99.3 Sn, not silver :p
[00:39] <NigeyS> i know, just using whats left of this reel
[00:39] <BrainDamage> rest will be silver
[00:39] <NigeyS> dan, throughhole stuff, caps, resistors, avr
[00:39] <NigeyS> BrainDamage, close..lol .. its late :p
[00:40] <Darkside> NigeyS: if you do switch to leaded solder, you'll probably need a new solder tip
[00:40] <Dan-K2VOL> meh yeah unleaded sucks to solder, I often end up burning the PCB trying to get through hole parts unsoldered that were done with lead-free
[00:40] <NigeyS> Darkside, no probs i bought a pack of 10 extra tips when i bought the new iron :D
[00:41] <Darkside> i usually use the 62/46/2 stuff
[00:41] <Darkside> or whatever it is
[00:41] <Darkside> lead/tin/silver
[00:41] <NigeyS> Dan-K2VOL, had that many times, either it burns the pcb, or tears off the pads!
[00:41] <Dan-K2VOL> yep
[00:41] <NigeyS> ill look for some leaded stuff, its norm the unleaded i come across
[00:42] <Darkside> NigeyS: anything safety critical has to use leaded solder
[00:42] <NigeyS> oh
[00:42] <Darkside> we were expressly forbidden to use lead-free solder in the cubesat payload i was working on
[00:43] <NigeyS> whats the lead do that makes the difference with respect to safety then ?
[00:43] <Darkside> stops tin whiskers forming
[00:43] <NigeyS> ahhh
[00:43] <SpeedEvil> Leaded solder on non-lead parts can be fail
[00:44] <Darkside> SpeedEvil: i try not to buy RoHS parts where possible
[00:44] <NigeyS> so rohs parts are lead free also ?
[00:44] <SpeedEvil> yes
[00:44] <SpeedEvil> Always
[00:44] <NigeyS> got ya
[00:44] <SpeedEvil> Well - not always.
[00:45] <SpeedEvil> Lead acid batteries are not lead free, but can be RoHs
[00:45] <Darkside> wut
[00:45] <Darkside> how the hell does that work
[00:45] <BrainDamage> NigeyS: when you go to leaded solder, 200°C works fine here on most stuff
[00:45] <Darkside> BrainDamage: really? i use 340 most of the time
[00:46] <NigeyS> 200.. dam.. nice! lol
[00:46] <Darkside> sometimes 320 if i'm working MD
[00:46] <Darkside> SMD*
[00:46] <BrainDamage> err, I meant 300
[00:46] <BrainDamage> depends also a bit how powerful is your iron
[00:46] <NigeyS> 100G Reel of K60/40 Tin / Lead Solder Wire
[00:46] <NigeyS> is ok ?
[00:47] <BrainDamage> 60/40 is the most widely used
[00:47] <NigeyS> great, ill order that before i forget
[00:47] <BrainDamage> better would be 63/37, but 60/40 will do just fine
[00:47] <BrainDamage> 63/37 is eutetic mix
[00:47] <Darkside> BrainDamage: whats the one with silver in it
[00:48] <Darkside> i've got a reel here, but the label is worn off
[00:48] <Darkside> someone has just written 2% silver on the reel
[00:48] <BrainDamage> forgot the Ag mix :/
[00:48] <Darkside> because that stuff works really nicely for smd
[00:49] <Darkside> its also really thin solder
[00:49] <BrainDamage> I use 63/37 with either RMA or water-based flux ( that I have no idea of the strenght, it seems mild too ), 0.8mm diameter
[00:50] <Darkside> heh
[00:50] <Darkside> i just have a separate bottle of liquid flux
[00:50] <Darkside> nasty stuff, works a treat though
[00:50] <Darkside> definitely not water soluble
[00:50] <BrainDamage> the water is in a pen, the rosin is paste
[01:07] <Zuph> You can get rma flux in pens
[01:09] <BrainDamage> didn't find any handy, so I bought the water one, next one I'll try for rma as well
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[01:17] <NigeyS> Darkside, that schematics been updated btw
[01:20] <Darkside> ok
[01:20] <Darkside> i might be starting work on something tonight
[01:21] <NigeyS> oki dokie, at least i think phil commited it to the repo, was just the vbatt change for the ntx2, and flipped the jp1 around
[01:44] <NigeyS> all done, picochu-3 ready for the big blue sky
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[08:33] <joph> good morning
[08:35] <number10> morning
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[09:40] <Darkside> hmm
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[09:42] <number10> daveake - what do you think of XPL 1 http://ferribox.co.uk/moulded/moulded.htm
[09:46] <daveake> Interesting ... they do some useful sizes
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[09:46] <daveake> Well, 1 or 2 useful sizes (now I'm reading gthe right column)
[09:48] <daveake> I like the flexibility of using sheet - then you can put the cameras where you want (i.e.far enough back so the lens is protected)
[09:50] <daveake> With 2" thick walls, if you put the camera in the wall then the lens will probably poke out the front.
[09:52] <number10> what thickness sheet do you use for cloud?
[09:52] <daveake> 2/3 layers of 1". Not ideal.
[09:52] <daveake> I have some 2" and 1" now
[09:52] <daveake> I used it to make the walls. Or you could build a cube with layers.
[09:54] <daveake> I bought a tabletop wire cutter on fleabay yesterday, so I can do a neater job in future
[09:56] <number10> a hotwire thing?
[09:57] <daveake> Yes. Like this one - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/hot-wire-table-foam-cutter-plug-cut-polystyrene-depron-new-/260878960144?pt=UK_ToysGames_ModelKits_ModelKits_JN&hash=item3cbd990610
[09:58] <number10> thats cheaper than the one I saw for 239 quid
[09:58] <daveake> !!!
[09:59] <daveake> I have a cheap handheld thing but it's really tricky to cut decent straight lines with that
[09:59] <daveake> Plus it's limited in how deep the material is and how far in it will cut
[10:00] <number10> what about the round camera hole - - would you just detach wire and poke through a small hole - reattach ant try and do a neat circle
[10:01] <daveake> Yes
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[10:01] <daveake> That said, these thngs cut nice thin lines, so you could go in from the side then do the circle, and glue the gap up after
[10:02] <daveake> I've done that and it was fine
[10:03] <number10> thanks you the info - this hab thing is costing plenty (and I havent even got the netbook, balloons chute or gas yet!
[10:04] <number10> for the info
[10:04] <daveake> :)
[10:05] <daveake> I have neither gas (took the remains back yesterday) nor payload right now. Bit busy over the next few weekends so it'll be December for my next one I think
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[10:11] <number10> I am going at a more leisurly pace ;)
[10:11] <Darkside> NigelMoby:
[10:11] <Darkside> fsphil:
[10:12] <NigelMoby> Moo
[10:12] <daveake> Number10 :)
[10:13] <Darkside> NigelMoby: i found some problems with the design
[10:14] <NigelMoby> Uhoh, what's broke?
[10:14] <Darkside> you can't get 100uF caps in 1206 form factor, which are rated any higher than 6.3v
[10:14] <NigelMoby> Ah crap
[10:14] <Darkside> i've got some part numbers for you
[10:15] <Darkside> but i'll get that to you a bit later, once i've finished this schematic
[10:15] <Darkside> also don't use SOT223 regulators, put something a bit bigger on there
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[10:15] <NigelMoby> I'm all for larger!
[10:16] <Darkside> good
[10:16] <NigelMoby> Everything else checked out ok?
[10:17] <Darkside> i think so
[10:17] <Darkside> i'm working on cpying that schematic into altium atm
[10:17] <Darkside> making a few littls changes, adding a microSD card socmet
[10:17] <Darkside> socket*
[10:17] <NigelMoby> Oo Nicey!
[10:17] <Darkside> and using an atmega2560
[10:18] <NigelMoby> Knew u would, u love that tiny soldering don't ya Hehe
[10:18] <Darkside> its not that hard to do
[10:18] <Darkside> the problem is lining it up in the first place
[10:19] <NigelMoby> Yeah, looks to be a right mare
[10:19] <Darkside> nah
[10:19] <Darkside> its not that hard
[10:21] <NigelMoby> U gone for 08's or 0603 ?
[10:22] <Darkside> 0805
[10:22] <Darkside> ok i've got everything except the tx modules and the temp sensors in the schematic
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[10:25] <NigelMoby> Schweet. Be interesting to see what size u can get the board.
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[10:38] <GW8RAK> A question about GPS. I've downloaded an app which records my cycling, but the altitude readings are wrong. Even at sea level, it is recording 60m asl. Is this a function of not enough satellites or the GPS in the phone?
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[10:40] <zyp> probably a combination of both
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[10:41] <zyp> the GPS in the phone is probably not as sensitive as a dedicated GPS, and thus have more problems getting enough satellites
[10:42] <joph> GW8RAK, which app?
[10:42] <GW8RAK> Endomondo
[10:42] <joph> in a few apps you can correct the height
[10:42] <SpeedEvil> Even when sensitive enough, phone GPSs can be optimised for a-gps, and not work properly without.
[10:43] <joph> try oruxmaps, this app is also great for tracking
[10:44] <GW8RAK> Thanks joph, will have a look at that one. I think I could get addicted to it and put a bit more effort in. Personal best into work this morning.
[10:47] <Darkside> NigelMoby: what have i gotten myself into...
[10:47] <Darkside> apart from pain
[10:47] <Darkside> and suffering
[10:48] <NigelMoby> Haha much pain!
[10:48] <NigelMoby> Have more pain, use eagle...lol
[10:48] <Darkside> oh well, i mostly know what i'm doing
[10:48] <Darkside> fuck that.
[10:48] <NigelMoby> Pmsl
[10:49] <Darkside> NigelMoby: do you have an ISP?
[10:49] <NigelMoby> Yups, I got the usbtiny
[10:49] <Darkside> good
[10:49] <Darkside> i'm removing the reset line from the 5 pin header
[10:49] <Darkside> and making it a 4 pin header
[10:49] <Darkside> for the camera
[10:50] <Darkside> you can program arduino sketches via the ISP header. the serial programming header is redundant
[10:50] <NigelMoby> Oh. Didn't know that, not actually used the isp for more than burning bootloaders yet
[10:51] <Darkside> its useful
[10:51] <Darkside> it means one more thing on the board isn't fixed down
[10:51] <Darkside> the first thing i do with pcb design is work out what is fixed, and what is flexible
[10:51] <Darkside> for example, the ISP header is fixed
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[10:51] <Darkside> but the camera and GPS can go to any of the UARTs
[10:51] <Darkside> the NTX2 can be controlled from any 3 GPIOs
[10:52] <NigelMoby> True
[10:52] <Darkside> the HX1 requires a PWM capable pin, so theres a bit of a restruction
[10:52] <Darkside> this just makes things easier
[10:52] <Darkside> another fixed point is the BMP085
[10:52] <NigelMoby> Seems to make sense
[10:52] <Darkside> that needs to connect to the 2-wire pins
[10:52] <Darkside> also the pull-up resistors are redundant
[10:53] <Darkside> the avr has built-in pullup for I2C
[10:53] <NigelMoby> Oh I must've missed that on the datasheet
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[11:03] Nick change: SpeedEvil -> Guest36263
[11:03] Nick change: DanielRichman -> Guest74826
[11:03] <mattltm> Hi all :)
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[11:26] <Darkside> NigelMoby: this is haaaard
[11:26] <Darkside> but i'm getting there
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[11:38] <Upu> http://imagebin.org/182038
[11:38] <Upu> http://imagebin.org/182039
[11:38] <Upu> new toy
[11:39] <Darkside> hey Upu
[11:39] <UpuWork> hey Darkside
[11:39] <Darkside> i'm doing a pcb up similar to the swift design
[11:39] <Darkside> well, actually is a copy of it
[11:39] <Darkside> with an atmega2560
[11:39] <UpuWork> ok cool
[11:39] <UpuWork> we've not done a board yet
[11:39] <Darkside> if i finish before you do, you can have the design
[11:39] <UpuWork> just the schematic
[11:39] <UpuWork> sure
[11:39] <UpuWork> thx
[11:39] <Darkside> binocular goggles
[11:39] <Darkside> ack
[11:39] <Darkside> microscope
[11:39] <UpuWork> hopefully make soldering those chips easier
[11:39] <Darkside> you;re gonna need that when you solder a TQFP-100
[11:40] <Darkside> :P
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[11:44] <UpuWork> well I'll start with that break out...
[11:44] <Darkside> a microscope doesn't help as much with those modules
[11:44] <Darkside> because you need to look at it from an angle
[11:44] <UpuWork> ok
[11:47] <Darkside> hmm this is fun
[11:47] <Darkside> trying to fit 2 radiometrix modules on one board
[11:47] <Darkside> while keeping them away from the gps module
[11:48] <Darkside> oooooh yes
[11:48] <Darkside> one on one side, one on the other
[11:48] <Darkside> :D
[11:48] <Darkside> that'll work
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[11:50] <UpuWork> hey that was my plan... :)
[11:51] <Darkside> :P
[11:51] <Darkside> well i'm doing it now :P
[11:51] <Darkside> (almost)
[11:51] <Darkside> i'm getting the gps module in plane first
[11:51] <Darkside> placE*
[11:51] <Darkside> everything that needs a serial port comes first
[12:04] <Darkside> UpuWork: so you're fine with components on both sides of the board?
[12:05] <Darkside> because i am actually not that far off being done with the preliminary layout
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[12:18] <Darkside> UpuWork: NigelMoby http://i.imgur.com/Ysina.jpg
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[12:19] <Darkside> thats where i'm up to at the moment
[12:19] <Darkside> i might stop there for tonight
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[12:20] <Darkside> juxta: !
[12:20] <juxta> hey Darkside
[12:20] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/Ysina.jpg
[12:20] <Darkside> playing around with something
[12:21] <WillDuckworth> what software's that Darkside?
[12:21] <Darkside> ATMega2560 + microSD + TTL Camera + ublox 6 + NTX2 (RTTY) + HX1 (APRS)
[12:21] <Darkside> WillDuckworth: altium designer
[12:21] <WillDuckworth> ta
[12:21] <WillDuckworth> looks good
[12:22] <Darkside> its fucking expensive
[12:22] <Darkside> hence why i'm running a pirated version >_>
[12:22] <juxta> you'd hope so, for the pricetag :)
[12:22] <Darkside> WAIT
[12:22] <Darkside> i mean, i'm using the uni's livense
[12:22] <number10> shushhh
[12:22] <Darkside> *cough*
[12:22] <Darkside> yep, completely legit here
[12:22] <Darkside> (i do have access to the uni's license server, i just cbf setting up the VPN into uni to use it)
[12:23] <Darkside> at some point i'll renew my student license and use it legit
[12:23] <Darkside> juxta: in other news, our TTL camera should arrive tomorrow
[12:23] <juxta> oh, nice one :)
[12:24] <juxta> weren't you hoping to get it before Whyalla?
[12:24] <Darkside> yep
[12:24] <Darkside> they didn't ship it for a week
[12:25] <Darkside> the bastards
[12:26] <Darkside> juxta: so yeah, i'm hoping i can still come along for the SGV launch
[12:26] <Darkside> i'm meant to be in tasmania over that weekend
[12:26] <juxta> hmm, what will you do?
[12:27] <Darkside> not sure, but i need to decide *soon*
[12:27] <Darkside> else flights will be $$$$
[12:28] <Darkside> what will SGV do if the conditions that weekend are crap?
[12:28] <juxta> delay the launch
[12:28] <juxta> not sure when to though
[12:29] <Darkside> hmm
[12:29] <Darkside> shame it couldn't have been this upcming weekend
[12:30] <Darkside> actually predictions for this weekend are crap :P
[12:31] <Darkside> mmm, sunday is ok
[12:31] <Darkside> saturday is south of victor harbor, sunday is down near tintinara
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[12:45] <Zuph> Morning, #highaltitude
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[13:38] <NigelMoby> Looking gd darkside
[13:40] <Darkside> i probably won't get much more done on that until the weekend
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[13:41] <NigelMoby> Okies, still rather u than me lol
[13:42] <Darkside> i may end up changing it again, i'd like to break out more of those GPIOs
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[13:42] <Darkside> but i might not have room
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[13:42] <NigelMoby> Yeah, the 2560 has a ton of them
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[13:43] <Darkside> anyway, sleep time
[13:43] <Darkside> nn
[13:44] <NigelMoby> Nn dudey.
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[13:57] <Laurenceb> 2560??
[13:58] <Laurenceb> *cough* stm32f4
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[14:11] Action: SpeedEvil ponders how many Hz the raspberry Pi can run the filter at.
[14:12] <Laurenceb> does it have fpu?
[14:13] <SpeedEvil> NEON I think
[14:13] <SpeedEvil> And a DSP
[14:13] <NigelMoby> Lol I read that as flu then....
[14:14] <Laurenceb> i dont see the point of raspberry pi
[14:14] <Laurenceb> just seems like fanboi stuff
[14:15] <Zuph> SpeedEvil: Seen the BeagleBone?
[14:16] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: $25, usb host
[14:17] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: reasonable RAM
[14:17] <SpeedEvil> 4 logitech 9000s, and a wifi dongle = network panoramic cam.
[14:18] <SpeedEvil> I2C expander board, wifi dongle - heating controller.
[14:18] <Laurenceb> i guess
[14:18] <SpeedEvil> I2C expander, LCD, knob - heating controller.
[14:18] <Laurenceb> bet it costs more
[14:18] <SpeedEvil> Zuph: beaglebone is interesting, but too expensive for me.
[14:19] <Laurenceb> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/microcontroller-processor/7458434/
[14:19] <SpeedEvil> The raspberry pi only works due to the hype.
[14:19] <SpeedEvil> The _NEED_ the hype.
[14:19] <SpeedEvil> To get the volume required to hit the cost targets.
[14:20] <Laurenceb> yeah
[14:20] <costyn> looks pretty nice for $25
[14:20] <Zuph> afaik, they're receiving a sweetheart deal from broadcom for parts.
[14:21] <SpeedEvil> And yes, the F4 is shiny.
[14:22] <SpeedEvil> But I can see possibly buying half a dozen Pis.
[14:24] <Laurenceb> F4 discovers has usb-swd bridge as well
[14:24] <Laurenceb> *discovery
[14:26] <costyn> did you guys see this? on micro uav's? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=CXEy5udocV0#!
[14:27] <costyn> more info in this article: http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/11/air-force-micro-aviary-drones/
[14:35] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Sure - but it doesn't have the whole USB stack.
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[14:42] <NigelMoby> Ok, in simple terms. Can someone explain why ssds have such a low e/p lifespan? 5000 really isn't much...
[14:43] <Laurenceb> i dont know
[14:43] <Laurenceb> it seems really odd to me
[14:43] <NigelMoby> Snap.
[14:43] <Laurenceb> they work by tunneling electrons through a gate oxide layer
[14:44] <Laurenceb> but i dont see how that degrades the oxide layer
[14:44] <NigelMoby> Hmm so its not so much a case of physical breakdown if the hardware
[14:44] <NigelMoby> Of*
[14:45] <SpeedEvil> Charge builds up in the wrong places, and can't be eliminated by the inbuilt electrodes.
[14:46] <SpeedEvil> I think in principle heating to 500C for an hour might fix it.
[14:46] <Laurenceb> oh
[14:46] <NigelMoby> Ohh
[14:46] <Laurenceb> so electrons tunnel _into_ the oxide
[14:46] <Laurenceb> yeah thatd screw things up
[14:46] <SpeedEvil> AIUI, yes, and around generally.
[14:46] <NigelMoby> But if u look at it .. from s certain point of view, its a seriously flawed technology.
[14:47] <SpeedEvil> Flash - as used in these things - is only guaranteed to be error-free for the first block.
[14:47] <SpeedEvil> The space is specified as 'will have more than x blocks with correctable errors or no errors after x0000 writes'
[14:47] <SpeedEvil> NigelMoby: Sure.
[14:48] <SpeedEvil> NigelMoby: Do you want to pay three times more for reliable flash?
[14:49] <BrainDamage> not just that, in order to increase data density, there's no more binary values for storage in each cell, but multi levels
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[14:49] <BrainDamage> this makes tollerances much more tight, and gives you cheaper memory, but with less write cycles
[14:49] <NigelMoby> Sure speedy
[14:49] Nick change: Guest74826 -> DanielRichman
[14:50] <NigelMoby> But. Something that's going to last more than a year
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[14:50] <NigelMoby> Seems as the ssd sizes go up, the e/p shoots down
[14:51] <SpeedEvil> e/p?
[14:52] <NigelMoby> Erase / program
[14:52] <SpeedEvil> ah
[14:52] <SpeedEvil> MLC flashes do tend to have lower cycle lifes.
[14:53] <NigelMoby> Hyper-x used to be 50000. Now its 5000.
[14:56] <SpeedEvil> ce?
[14:59] <NigelMoby> Intel® 25nm Compute-Quality MLC NAND (5k P/E Cycles)
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[16:28] <Laurenceb> http://dvice.com/archives/2011/11/sixteen-tiny-he.php
[16:29] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L75ESD9PBOw&feature=player_embedded
[16:33] <daveake> Impressive!
[16:38] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: ^
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[16:47] <BrainDamage> reminds me somehow of this https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/De_Lackner_HZ-1_Aerocycle
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[17:13] <SAIDias> http://www.engadget.com/2011/11/02/diy-unmanned-airship-soars-95-000-feet-above-earth-lays-claim-t/
[17:16] Nick change: SAIDias -> W0OTM
[17:18] <SamSilver> W0OTM: they used 2 x 4500 Kaymont iirc
[17:18] Nick change: SamSilver -> SamSilver_
[17:18] <W0OTM> im not really impressed though.....I dont see the purpose.
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[17:39] <Dan-K2VOL> W0OTM the point is to stationkeep a high altitude payload over one spot - that is a tremendous value for short notice regional communications links and imaging - military, emergencies etc
[17:39] <Dan-K2VOL> for weeks at a time
[17:39] <Dan-K2VOL> using a superpressure envelope
[17:40] <Dan-K2VOL> While JP aerospace flew one the highest, it's not engineering-beneficial to do so - the winds are calmest around 60-70,000 ft (20km) which means you have less weight in solar cells, and less mass of envelope
[17:41] <W0OTM> ok, I see the purpose now, doesn't interest me, but thats what makes this hobby SO great!
[17:43] <Dan-K2VOL> I suppose you could also use it as a recharging dock for high altitude drones
[17:43] <Dan-K2VOL> wouldn't that be crazy
[17:47] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL: Up that high, you're like half way to space. This'll make it so much cheaper to lauch satellites and stuff! Suck it, NASA!
[17:49] <Dan-K2VOL> the problem is that rockets are really heavy, and will require a loooot of balloon, and lot of helium
[17:49] <Dan-K2VOL> which at that point probably makes it cheaper to attach it to an SR-71 and air launch a pegasus
[17:49] <Zuph> yeah but you won't have to carry as much rocket gas because ur so high already.
[17:51] <Dan-K2VOL> I'd consider the pegasus to be pretty close to the rocket you'd need, wouldn't you?
[17:51] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL: Get your sarcasm detectors checked out :-p
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[17:56] <Dan-K2VOL> well, honestly it's feasible so it's not ridiculous, but I think it's pretty close to the same cost as the existing aircraft launched orbital rocket system, not orders of magnitude cheaper
[17:56] <Dan-K2VOL> but it may be orders of magnitude less controllable and reliable
[17:57] <Dan-K2VOL> Zuph, they found the piggyback payloads, did you see?
[17:57] <Zuph> Yep
[17:57] <Zuph> Where'd they end up?
[17:58] <Dan-K2VOL> we can do the burst flight just in time to finish the valve design
[17:58] <Dan-K2VOL> oh I don't recall exactly, but 8 miles west of the predicted landing spot
[17:58] <Zuph> ah ha
[17:58] <Dan-K2VOL> bill miscalculated the chute descent rate
[17:58] <Zuph> Here's hoping the SD card survived.
[17:58] <Dan-K2VOL> that would be nice, but even if not we have the hardware to re-fly again
[17:58] <Dan-K2VOL> here's hoping the rest survived!
[17:59] <Dan-K2VOL> there's a balloon launch that Taylor U is doing saturday morning, I was thinking of going up there for that, maybe spend the night friday at the bloomington hackerspace
[18:00] <Dan-K2VOL> they're the commercial stratostar folks
[18:15] <nosebleedKT> Hi all
[18:22] <Dan-K2VOL> hi
[18:36] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Damn close to what I was imagining.
[18:36] <SpeedEvil> just slightly different, optimised for a much larger area.
[18:37] Action: SpeedEvil forgets.
[18:37] <SpeedEvil> Power needed goes as 1/area?
[18:37] Action: SpeedEvil is too tired for dimensional analysis.
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[19:22] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SWIMMING-POOL-HEAT-EXCHANGER-PLANS-BUILD-YOUR-OWN-/220882516391?pt=UK_Swimming_Pools_Hot_Tubs&hash=item336d9fb9a7 - interesting - plans on the honor system.
[19:22] <SpeedEvil> (check the pics)
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[19:48] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:49] <SpeedEvil> o
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[21:02] <griffonbot> Received email: "[UKHAS] Signal strength... for mobile phones?"
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[21:55] <fsphil-laptop> why do I taunt myself with predictions :) http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=a84d7be4ef51ea9cf828c1a6729ef2e7ecdc1f6e
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[22:10] <daveake> :-). I predict that you don't have a notam in order to take advantage of the kind conditions :p
[22:11] <fsphil-laptop> You can tell the future?!
[22:11] <daveake> Don't need a crystal ball for that one!
[22:11] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[22:11] <daveake> I'm relying on Mystic Miller
[22:13] <daveake> Took my cylinder back yesterday ... too busy over the next few weeks to use it, and it's not worth paying £6 or whatever it is per week just for the 1 cubic metre I think it contains
[22:13] <fsphil-laptop> it's a monday though - unlikely I'd be able to gather up enough ground help
[22:13] <fsphil-laptop> aah
[22:14] <SpeedEvil> daveake: you diddn't fill a binbag?
[22:14] Action: SpeedEvil wonders how long binbags would last.
[22:14] <fsphil-laptop> or make funny voices?
[22:15] <daveake> no more than uual
[22:15] <daveake> usual
[22:16] <daveake> No spare time at all over the next couple of weeks. Finishing off some software to test at Rally GB next week. This weekend I'm working in Scotland, and the week after the rally I'm working in Belgium for a week.
[22:16] <daveake> Might need a rest after that lot!
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[22:18] <fsphil-laptop> I nice relaxing weekend of HAB'ing
[22:18] <fsphil-laptop> A*
[22:18] <daveake> :). I'm going to repackage Buzz for a re-run.
[22:19] <fsphil-laptop> buzzier
[22:19] <daveake> After that I'll do a camera flight
[22:19] <daveake> BigBuzz
[22:19] <daveake> Buzz HeavyYear
[22:19] <fsphil-laptop> If a prediction like that monday one, and a notam coincide (maybe!) then I'll fly the gopro
[22:19] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[22:19] <fsphil-laptop> Mid-30s Buzz
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[22:21] <fsphil-laptop> right, better get the weremutt to bed
[22:23] <daveake> nite
[22:27] <Lunar_Lander> hi daveake fsphil-laptop
[22:27] <daveake> LO
[22:27] <Lunar_Lander> crap!
[22:27] <Lunar_Lander> my pants are the wrong way round :(
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> and I can't really lift my legs
[22:28] <daveake> I think I joined the wrong channel :p
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> I hope you never had that
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> an inflammation at the lower back
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[22:29] <daveake> er no. Never put my pants on the wrong way round either :)
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> actually they call it "Jeep Driver's disease" in the US as it hits mostly men between 20 and 30
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> thus many soldiers have that
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[22:37] <Lunar_Lander> anyway
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> daveake : today I assembled a few balloon parts
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> another pressure and humidity sensor, an xBee breakout to use the GPSbee with the arduino and an ADXL 335 accelerometer
[22:39] <fsphil-laptop> you do bring up the most interesting topics Lunar_Lander :)
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:40] <Lunar_Lander> I mean I am suffering from that
[22:40] <Lunar_Lander> and now they gonna cut it out
[22:40] <Lunar_Lander> :(
[22:42] <fsphil-laptop> really windy here tonight
[22:42] <fsphil-laptop> but oddly warm
[22:42] <fsphil-laptop> it shouldn't be this warm in november
[22:43] <Darkside> hey fsphil-laptop
[22:43] <fsphil-laptop> howdy Darkside!
[22:43] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/Ysina.jpg
[22:43] <Darkside> started on that last night
[22:44] <fsphil-laptop> it looks nearly done
[22:44] <fsphil-laptop> very impressive
[22:44] <Darkside> its a fair way off being done
[22:44] <Darkside> i'm going to need to rearrange quite a bit on that
[22:45] <Darkside> i had planned on breakout out all the unused GPIOs
[22:45] <fsphil-laptop> micro-sd card, that's handy
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> hi Darkside
[22:47] <Darkside> fsphil-laptop: you guys are fre to use the design once i'm done with it
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> btw Darkside fsphil-laptop and daveake do you have experience with that accelerometer?
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[22:50] <fsphil-laptop> Darkside, may borrow a few ideas :)
[22:50] <fsphil-laptop> and you're free to do the same though you probably won't need to lol
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[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> hi RocketBoy
[23:00] <RocketBoy> yo
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[23:01] Nick change: RocketBoy_ -> RocketBoy
[23:02] <Lunar_Lander> wb RocketBoy
[23:03] <RocketBoy> tis the wifi
[23:03] <RocketBoy> seems to work ok for days - then goes through a period of being dodgy
[23:04] <RocketBoy> today has been a dodgy day
[23:04] <RocketBoy> seems channel related - if i change channel to one that is less used it clears up for a bit
[23:05] <RocketBoy> then it comes back after a period (days/weeks)
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[23:09] <RocketBoy> grrrrrr
[23:15] <Lunar_Lander> RocketBoy : I just saw a german documentary from 2003
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[23:15] <Lunar_Lander> they said that the biological research in the UK is directed towards applications
[23:15] <Lunar_Lander> and that research without direct applications is not really purusued which is why several physics departments had to close down
[23:15] <Lunar_Lander> is that true?
[23:16] <Lunar_Lander> hi juc
[23:16] <Lunar_Lander> *juxta
[23:17] <RocketBoy> I imagine there is some truth in that - with budgets being tight
[23:17] <RocketBoy> then expedature is mostly going to be directedon projects with obvious application
[23:18] <juxta> morning Lunar_Lander
[23:18] <RocketBoy> directed
[23:18] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:18] <Lunar_Lander> and then they said in the USA the research has almost unlimited money
[23:19] <RocketBoy> prossably more so yeah
[23:19] <RocketBoy> possibly
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[23:21] Nick change: RocketBoy_ -> RocketBoy
[23:21] <RocketBoy> Lunar_Lander: do you know the difference between the german 1 & 2 ham radio licences?
[23:22] <Lunar_Lander> I only know class E and A
[23:23] <Lunar_Lander> E is the basic license and you can get A if you have that and do another exam about the technical part
[23:23] <Lunar_Lander> E allows the usage of several bands with serveral powers
[23:23] <Lunar_Lander> and A allows usage of all ham bands
[23:23] <Lunar_Lander> with up to 750 W EIRP IIRC
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[23:27] <RocketBoy> I was looking at this CEPT document http://www.erodocdb.dk/docs/doc98/official/pdf/TR6101.pdf
[23:28] <RocketBoy> page 6 - talks about 1, 2 & A german licences
[23:28] <Lunar_Lander> ah
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[23:29] <RocketBoy> so I guess A is A anyway
[23:30] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[23:30] <RocketBoy> is there a copy of the A licence online at all (english translation preferred)
[23:30] <Lunar_Lander> 1 says "access to all amateur radio bands with a maximum transmitter output power of 750 W"
[23:31] <Lunar_Lander> and 2 seems to be the same strangely
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[23:33] Nick change: RocketBoy_ -> RocketBoy
[23:34] <RocketBoy> ta Lunar_Lander - anyway I'm off to bed
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[00:00] --- Thu Nov 3 2011