highaltitude.log.20111030

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[07:51] <joph> good morning
[07:51] <number10> morning
[07:52] <number10> so who are earlybirds and who have forgot to change the clocks
[07:54] <griffonbot> Received email: Howard Smith "Re: [UKHAS] Tiny GPS unit"
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[08:01] <x-f> i like this clock changing day in autumn - you get one extra hour for free, longer sunday
[08:03] <joph> this clock changing is crap
[08:04] <number10> I agree its crap - means its darlk in the evening
[08:05] <x-f> at our latitude it's dark anyway :)
[08:06] <number10> where are you x-f
[08:06] <x-f> 57N, Latvia
[08:08] <joph> yeah
[08:08] <joph> x-f, hehe
[08:10] <number10> Valmiera?
[08:10] <x-f> Sigulda
[08:12] <number10> what is the national park like?
[08:15] <x-f> it is mostly "untouched nature", if that's the right term
[08:16] <x-f> forrests everywhere, great valley (70 meters deep, starts few meters form my home), river on the bottom
[08:17] <x-f> and wild animals - pigs, foxes, mooses, owls, and smaller ones, too
[08:17] <number10> pictures look good on google
[08:18] <x-f> you could come and see for yourself next summer :)
[08:18] <number10> would be nice
[08:19] <x-f> i envy your large rural areas, because my balloon will definately land in a tree
[08:20] <number10> looks like lots of trees there - it unfortunate in a way, that we chopped most of ours down years ago
[08:25] <x-f> im affraid it will happen here too one day
[08:36] <x-f> a few and old photos from my bedroom's window - http://x-f.lv/gallery/NemazArNekaitinu/photo
[08:36] <x-f> (that hangar and other things on the bottom are parts of our luge and bobsleigh track)
[08:38] <number10> that looks like an amazing view from you house - as you say not good for HAB, but maybe for mushrooms
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[08:42] <x-f> or blackberries or wild strawberries
[08:42] <SamSilver_> no cloock changing here 32S
[08:43] <SamSilver_> clock
[08:43] <SamSilver_> gets light at 5 bloody am
[08:44] <SamSilver_> afk - got bread to make
[08:44] <nosebleedKT> Hi all people
[08:46] <x-f> hi, nosebleed
[08:46] <Upu> morning
[08:49] <number10> hi
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[09:14] <fsphil-laptop> Worst thing about changing the clocks is trying to explain it to pets :)
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[09:24] <Upu> lol
[09:24] <Upu> yeah fsphil
[09:26] <joph> fsphil-laptop, sounds interesting
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[09:30] <fsphil-laptop> morning Upu n' joph
[09:31] <fsphil-laptop> been an unusually quiet weekend in habland for once
[09:39] <number10> Mrs #10 pleased as was taking up too many weekend days
[09:39] <number10> so I have decided to make sloe gin, and beer instead of Hab - not sure she is pleased about that either
[09:40] <fsphil-laptop> at least you don't have to chase it
[09:44] <mattltm> Mornin all :)
[09:49] <number10> morning
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[09:53] <UpuiPhone> will have another go at designing that ADF breakout today
[09:53] <UpuiPhone> also expecting ublox breakouts this week
[09:55] <fsphil-laptop> I'm still a bit sleepy, I read that as "destroying that ADF breakout"
[09:56] <UpuiPhone> probably more accurate
[09:57] <UpuiPhone> any fan bois with iphone 4s say to Siri "i need to dispose of a body"
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[09:58] <UpuiPhone> hmm
[09:59] <UpuiPhone> just sat in bnq waiting for it to open never mind pets i reckon its 11
[09:59] <UpuiPhone> afk
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[10:01] <fsphil-laptop> ah, I'm just thinking of heading to b+q
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[10:11] <nosebleedKT> I now dont understand something very foundemental
[10:11] <nosebleedKT> my radio is possible that receives multiple aprs messages at the same time
[10:12] <nosebleedKT> i mean that many signals, from different stations, hit my antenna all the time
[10:13] <nosebleedKT> how the radio decodes only 1 at the time?
[10:13] <nosebleedKT> the bits do not get mixed?
[10:13] <fsphil-laptop> you can only receive one at a time
[10:13] <fsphil-laptop> but the packets are brief
[10:13] <nosebleedKT> fsphil-laptop: lets assume the following scenario
[10:14] <nosebleedKT> i transmit live image stream from the hab.
[10:14] <fsphil-laptop> so they can all share the same frequency - but collisions will occur, and you likely won't receive either
[10:14] <nosebleedKT> the receiving of the stream takes 1min for example
[10:14] <fsphil-laptop> aprs packets are never 1 minute long though
[10:15] <fsphil-laptop> few seconds at most
[10:15] <fsphil-laptop> now you could sent multiple packets one after the other, but I wouldn't recommend it :)
[10:15] <nosebleedKT> while those 60s im receiving the image data, what happens when other stuff hit my antenna?
[10:15] <fsphil-laptop> carnage :)
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[10:16] <nosebleedKT> blood carnage?
[10:16] <fsphil-laptop> radio carnage
[10:16] <fsphil-laptop> the aprs frequency is a shared frequency -- you don't want to be doing long transmissions there
[10:16] <nosebleedKT> so when you was receiving your neat ssdv data its possible that are signal from the same freq were hitting your antenna
[10:16] <nosebleedKT> I plan to do it on 433mhz
[10:16] <fsphil-laptop> ah
[10:17] <fsphil-laptop> there where no other signals on 434.075mhz when I was transmitting images
[10:17] <nosebleedKT> narrow band fm 433mhz
[10:17] <nosebleedKT> so you need to find by luck which frequency is totally clear
[10:17] <nosebleedKT> to get your image
[10:18] <fsphil-laptop> sort of -- almost all the devices on 434mhz transmit brief signals
[10:19] <fsphil-laptop> so the interference is quite small, enough that the error correction could handle it
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[10:19] <nosebleedKT> so am I correct if i say that while im receiving my image data on 433.000mhz, there is possibility that another 433.000mhz signal hits my antenna and those data interfere inside the image data?
[10:19] <fsphil-laptop> if someone else had been in the air transmitting rtty on 434.075, it's entirely possible there would have been a clash
[10:20] <mattltm> Anyone know a good source of ftdi cables? Mine has just killed itself!
[10:20] <fsphil-laptop> if they're loud enough signals yes
[10:20] <nosebleedKT> yes of course. receiving margin should be take into consideration.
[10:20] <nosebleedKT> should be taken*
[10:21] <fsphil-laptop> most signals on 434mhz are near the ground, so it's quite easy to get away from it
[10:21] <nosebleedKT> if that other signal is not strong enough the radio module won't decode it.
[10:21] <nosebleedKT> So now i wonder
[10:22] <nosebleedKT> I have my new aprs receiving MANY messages all the tim
[10:22] <fsphil-laptop> how'd you manage that mattltm ? :)
[10:22] <nosebleedKT> time*
[10:22] <fsphil-laptop> not at the same time though
[10:22] <nosebleedKT> yes
[10:22] <fsphil-laptop> you receive one packet, then you receive another
[10:22] <fsphil-laptop> they don't transmit at the same time
[10:22] <fsphil-laptop> well sometime they do - but you probably won't decode those
[10:22] <mattltm> Im not sure fsphil. Just pluged it in to the USB this morning and it'd dead :(
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[10:22] <nosebleedKT> yes but if 2 messages arrive at the same time, it wont be decoded, right?
[10:23] <fsphil-laptop> nosebleedKT, yep. unless one is much stronger than the other
[10:23] <nosebleedKT> yes
[10:23] <fsphil-laptop> FM has a thing called the capture effect
[10:23] <fsphil-laptop> it can help decode the stronger signal
[10:23] <mattltm> I got it from a mate who is a UK reseller for DFrobot. Was a good one too as it had selectavle 3.3 or 5v.
[10:23] <mattltm> Can't find it on their website though :(
[10:23] <nosebleedKT> well, the good news is that i found AFSK demodulation code for arduino and works awesome.
[10:24] <k5egg> We went from having no APRS, to having a half dozen digis within roof-top-antenna-shot of me. Whats funny is there hasn't been a single APRS client in the area in weeks.
[10:24] <k5egg> but, digis popping up everywhere!
[10:24] <fsphil-laptop> mattltm, http://proto-pic.co.uk/usb-to-serial-ttl-cable-ftdi-5v-vcc-3-3v-i-o/
[10:24] <nosebleedKT> I now need your SSDV thing for the jpeg cam dude
[10:24] <mattltm> Oh, nicey ta :)
[10:24] <fsphil-laptop> k5egg, it's an aprs dead zone where I live :)
[10:24] <k5egg> so, .390 is full of repeaters beaconing, and other repeaters digi'ing those beacons... and thats it :P
[10:24] <fsphil-laptop> apart from one guy who does aprs from his car
[10:24] <nosebleedKT> and i will be able to build live stream system based on AFSK
[10:25] <fsphil-laptop> how are you transmitting the ssdv stuff?
[10:26] <nosebleedKT> im doing anything yet. Im waiting for your ssdv for the jpeg cam
[10:26] <nosebleedKT> but in a whole, i will AFSK your SSDV bytes
[10:26] <nosebleedKT> and send them to radio module
[10:26] <fsphil-laptop> I'm still not sure how to do that. it involves messing with the jpeg coefficients :)
[10:27] <nosebleedKT> and on the other side i will de-AFSK the data and get back your SSDV bytes
[10:28] <nosebleedKT> you need to do it man!
[10:28] <fsphil-laptop> what are you using to do the de-AFSK bit?
[10:28] <nosebleedKT> arduino
[10:28] <nosebleedKT> :)
[10:28] <fsphil-laptop> it would be quicker if you got 4D's C328 camera :)
[10:29] <nosebleedKT> lol
[10:29] <nosebleedKT> the jpeg cam is better than c328 and you know it
[10:29] <nosebleedKT> and i will send VGA images because i got 1200baud
[10:30] <fsphil-laptop> brave :)
[10:30] <nosebleedKT> yes you need to be brave and make the ssdv !
[10:30] <nosebleedKT> give it a chance!
[10:31] <nosebleedKT> we have till my launch !
[10:31] <nosebleedKT> we have time till my launch !
[10:31] <fsphil-laptop> the format could be modified to handle the different sub-sampling, but it would be incompatible with anything else that decodes ssdv
[10:31] <nosebleedKT> http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/390703_309651849048866_259791880701530_1410746_1420244423_n.jpg
[10:31] <nosebleedKT> yes you need to make the decoder also !!!!!
[10:32] <nosebleedKT> omg!
[10:32] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[10:32] <fsphil-laptop> what quality level did you take the sample image at?
[10:32] <nosebleedKT> default all
[10:32] <nosebleedKT> i dont change anything
[10:33] <nosebleedKT> just resulotion
[10:33] <fsphil-laptop> can you try taking some at 45%
[10:33] <nosebleedKT> i dont touch compression and qualities
[10:34] <nosebleedKT> you are about jpeg camera image, right?
[10:34] <fsphil-laptop> yea
[10:34] <nosebleedKT> ok
[10:34] <fsphil-laptop> it might change how it encodes the image based on the quality level
[10:34] <nosebleedKT> i thought you might talking about the facebook image i posted before
[10:35] <nosebleedKT> i does not have any quality thing to change
[10:35] <nosebleedKT> just compression
[10:35] <fsphil-laptop> same thing I think
[10:35] <nosebleedKT> which is said to be 36% by default
[10:35] <fsphil-laptop> oh
[10:35] <cuddykid> morning all
[10:35] <mattltm> hi cuddykid
[10:35] <cuddykid> hi mattltm
[10:35] <fsphil-laptop> g'day cuddykid
[10:35] <nosebleedKT> hi all
[10:35] <fsphil-laptop> think it's time for breakfast, brb!
[10:36] <cuddykid> hi fsphil :)
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[10:56] <fsphil-laptop> yay, sunshine
[10:57] <fsphil-laptop> it's been so long
[11:18] <Laurenceb_> http://lustlab.net/
[11:18] Action: Laurenceb_ facepalms at the explanation
[11:22] <Laurenceb_> so much bullshit
[11:24] <fsphil-laptop> mattltm, actually that ftdi cable isn't switchable
[11:25] <fsphil-laptop> mattltm, http://www.robotshop.com/eu/dfrobot-ftdi-usb-serial-basic-breakout-board.html
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[11:32] <number10> http://proto-pic.co.uk/ftdi-basic-breakout-3-3v-new/
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[11:59] <Laurenceb_> anyone know how to rotate text in gimp?
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[12:23] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[12:27] <fsphil-laptop> Laurenceb, layer transform?
[12:27] <fsphil-laptop> hullo Lunar_Lander
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[12:33] <jcoxon> nooooo macbook battery has completely died
[12:34] <fsphil-laptop> how old was it?
[12:34] <jcoxon> 2008
[12:34] <jcoxon> 854 cycles on the battery
[12:36] <jonsowman> blimey
[12:36] <jonsowman> mine's 2009 and only done 134
[12:36] Action: SpeedEvil loves thinkpads ability to cp the maximum charge.
[12:37] <SpeedEvil> If you charge the battery to 75%, it lasts _lots_ longer.
[12:37] <jonsowman> interesting
[12:37] <SpeedEvil> cap
[12:37] <jcoxon> apparently a cycle is a full charge/discharge cycle
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[12:37] <jcoxon> so if you use it for a couple of hours and then charge it up it contributes but itsn't a complete cycle
[12:37] <jonsowman> yeah
[12:37] <jonsowman> fair enough
[12:38] Nick change: fsphil-laptop -> fsphil
[12:38] <jonsowman> is yours unibody?
[12:38] <jcoxon> no
[12:38] <jonsowman> replaceable battery then
[12:38] <jonsowman> well, user replaceable at least
[12:38] <jcoxon> yeah
[12:38] <jcoxon> though 2008
[12:38] <jcoxon> so quite a few years...
[12:38] <jonsowman> or a good excuse for a new one ;)
[12:39] <fsphil> my eeepc battery pretty much failed after 1 year. typically
[12:39] <jonsowman> the unibodies have an 80% capacity in 5 years guarantee iirc
[12:39] <jcoxon> macs are so expensive these days
[12:39] <jonsowman> jcoxon: fine someone with HE discount :)]
[12:39] <jonsowman> *find
[12:41] <hibby> yeah, the air is the entry level
[12:41] <jcoxon> i got this macbook for 600
[12:41] <jcoxon> now entry is 849
[12:42] <hibby> ipad? dlfldigi touch edition
[12:42] <jcoxon> hehe
[12:43] <Lunar_Lander> what a stupid idea to make a laptop with an integrated battery that can't be removed
[12:43] <joph> that's the innovation of apple
[12:44] <joph> sell expensive hardware with limited functionality
[12:44] <jcoxon> i don't think i could bear not having osx (i'm so used to it)
[12:45] <jcoxon> isn't that awful
[12:45] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[12:45] <jonsowman> there are reasons for the integrated battery
[12:45] <jonsowman> and apple compensate for it by replacing it free if it loses > 80% capacity in 5 years
[12:45] <jonsowman> which is pretty good
[12:46] <hibby> still
[12:46] <Darkside> i just bugged 4d systems AGAIN about the camera
[12:46] <hibby> i like swapping batteries
[12:46] <Darkside> they still haven't shipped
[12:46] <griffonbot> @vk5zsn: #projecthorus [http://twitter.com/vk5zsn/status/130626576613253120]
[12:46] <jcoxon> inspired by the apex launch and horus 16 i'm going to do a purposeful 36km float flight
[12:47] <jonsowman> :)
[12:47] <Darkside> hahahaha
[12:47] <Darkside> we did 38km...
[12:48] <Darkside> not this 36km bullshit
[12:48] <Darkside> :P
[12:48] <jcoxon> Darkside, its not about alt :-)
[12:48] <jcoxon> jonsowman, night launch
[12:48] <jcoxon> i want to see if it will get float at night
[12:48] <jcoxon> as all the other flights are day floats
[12:48] <jonsowman> jcoxon: sure, sounds great
[12:48] <jonsowman> launching from cam?
[12:48] <jcoxon> please
[12:48] <jonsowman> excellent
[12:48] <jonsowman> i'm up for it :D
[12:49] <jcoxon> i was thinking
[12:49] <jcoxon> we could put an aprs tracker on it, geofence it for europe...
[12:50] <Darkside> micronut would work well for APRS...
[12:50] <Darkside> about 70 grams when using AA batteries
[12:50] <jcoxon> good work
[12:50] <jonsowman> jcoxon: that's a good idea
[12:51] <Darkside> jcoxon: you can use the micronut design for the aprs stuff if you want
[12:51] <jonsowman> NigelMoby and fsphil are doing something similar iirc?
[12:51] <hibby> there's no reason we can't send aprs packets over rtty
[12:51] <Laurenceb_> wonder if you could do transatlantic with latex floater
[12:51] <hibby> ;)
[12:51] <jcoxon> yeah i think its a fact finder
[12:51] <jcoxon> Laurenceb_, exactly
[12:51] <jcoxon> if you can squeeze out 36hrs flight
[12:51] <jcoxon> thats ~100mph required
[12:52] <jcoxon> to do boston to london
[12:52] <Laurenceb_> you can certainly do >24hours
[12:52] <Laurenceb_> so if you get ideal weather
[12:52] <jcoxon> Laurenceb_, when would you launch?
[12:52] <Laurenceb_> i dunno
[12:53] <Laurenceb_> whenever the sim looks best :P
[12:53] <jonsowman> jcoxon: what sort of timeframe?>
[12:53] <jcoxon> jonsowman, i'd be keen to launch soon
[12:53] <Laurenceb_> be interesting to have a play with flight sim and see what it says about transatlantic
[12:55] <fsphil> Darkside, 4D systems being a pain?
[12:57] <Laurenceb_> spacetime manipulation not working?
[12:58] <fsphil> I tried manipulating space time once and I ended up in this universe. don't want to try again, it could be even worse next time!
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[13:00] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[13:15] <jcoxon> Darkside, how does micronut interface for APRS?
[13:18] <Darkside> jcoxon: how do you mean?
[13:18] <Darkside> you apply power, and it starts beaconing APRS position reports
[13:19] <Darkside> you could quite easily tack a NTX2 off the side and make it to RTTY too
[13:22] <jcoxon> i mean is it pwm?
[13:22] <Darkside> ye
[13:22] <Darkside> yes
[13:23] <Darkside> directly into the HX1's TXD pin
[13:23] <jcoxon> so pwm throught a low pass filter
[13:23] <jcoxon> or direct
[13:23] <Darkside> the HX1's input filter is 3KHz wide
[13:23] <jcoxon> i see
[13:23] <Darkside> we've done checks on it, it works perfectly fine :-)
[13:23] <jcoxon> so its vcc, gnd and a single pin off the avr
[13:23] <Darkside> pretty much
[13:23] <jcoxon> wow that is simple
[13:23] <Darkside> but more complicated than that because teh HX1 needs 5v, and the micronut runs off 3,3
[13:23] <Darkside> 3.3*
[13:23] <Darkside> but basically, yeah
[13:24] <Darkside> we found the HX1's enable pin works fine off 3.3v though
[13:24] <Darkside> so didn't need to do any more hacking around to get that working
[13:24] <Darkside> basically we have a working aprs tracker that lasts for over a day when using 2 AA lithiums and a boost converter
[13:24] <jcoxon> so can you input with 3.3v
[13:24] <Darkside> thats with a 1 minute beacon rate
[13:25] <Darkside> yes, the pwm input is at 3.3v, and it works fine
[13:25] <jcoxon> okay
[13:25] <jcoxon> i see
[13:25] <Darkside> surprisingly enough the deviation with a 3.3v pwm input is pretty much spot on
[13:26] <jcoxon> yeah i had a feeling it would be well placed
[13:26] <Darkside> we didn't need to make any changes to have it play nicely with the APRS network
[13:26] <jcoxon> okay
[13:26] <Darkside> anyway, micronut has gps, etc all inbuilt
[13:26] <Darkside> its literally apply 5v to it and away you go
[13:26] <jcoxon> sure
[13:26] <Darkside> 5v because the NTX2/TX1H/HX1 VCC pin is fed directly from the power supply
[13:27] <Darkside> LDO to give the 3.3v for the AVR, so that means the min input voltage is around 4v
[13:27] <Darkside> but for the APRS boards we use an external boost converter to give 5v so the HX1 stays happy
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[13:28] <jcoxon> yeah
[13:28] <jcoxon> cool
[13:28] <Darkside> theres also plenty of IOs broken out - you could easily tack on a NTX2 to it
[13:28] <Darkside> so the one board does both RTTY and APRS
[13:29] <jcoxon> Darkside, well i'm thinking doing the opposite
[13:29] <jcoxon> and tacking on a HX1 onto my board
[13:30] <Darkside> that'd work too :-)
[13:30] <Darkside> just make sure to give it 5v
[13:30] <Darkside> PWM capable pin for the TXD, and whatever you have free for the enable
[13:31] <jcoxon> yeah
[13:31] <Darkside> trackuino works nicely for beaconing, but its not fully compliant with the APRS standard
[13:31] <Darkside> one of the project horus team members hasbeen fixing that
[13:31] <jcoxon> okay
[13:32] <Darkside> will try and get the code up somewhere
[13:32] <jcoxon> great
[13:32] <jcoxon> thanks
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[14:17] <NigeyS> weeeee
[14:17] <SpeedEvil> eee?
[14:17] <NigeyS> pc
[14:17] <NigeyS> :p
[14:17] <NigeyS> ello Speedy
[14:18] <NigeyS> i think my mouse has carked it :(
[14:22] <SpeedEvil> :/
[14:23] <NigeyS> battery doesnt charge anymore,
[14:24] <SpeedEvil> Replace it!
[14:24] <NigeyS> sealed unit
[14:24] <SpeedEvil> Dremel.
[14:25] <NigeyS> haha noo i cant dremmel my gaming mouse! its lasted well mind, 3 years, not bad for a 90quid mouse
[14:25] <SpeedEvil> If it's ultrasonically welded, often you can get the case open with a knife, tapped on the back with a hammer.
[14:26] <SpeedEvil> worked round the case
[14:26] <NigeyS> ohhh
[14:26] <NigeyS> that might work, theres definately no screws on it
[14:26] <SpeedEvil> In some cases, you can get very little damage doing this.
[14:26] <NigeyS> im sure i could just replace the lipo inside with a new 1 if i could just get in there
[14:27] <DanielRichman> ultrasonic... welding? what is this witchcraft
[14:27] <SpeedEvil> It uses ultrasound to generate heat in plastic.
[14:27] <NigeyS> hrm
[14:27] <NigeyS> Warranty Information
[14:27] <NigeyS> 3-year limited hardware warranty
[14:27] <SpeedEvil> You press the two halves together, and apply ultrasound.
[14:27] <NigeyS> wonder if its still in warranty
[14:27] <DanielRichman> cool
[14:28] <NigeyS> didnt know ultrasound generated any heat..
[14:29] <SpeedEvil> Any sound generates heat, if it's going through a nonlinear medium.
[14:30] <NigeyS> even plain old sound waves, like when we talk ?
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[14:39] <hibby> NigeyS: indeed
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[14:48] <Lunar_Lander> back
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[14:57] <Laurenceb_> http://groups.google.com/group/ukhas/browse_thread/thread/102fa90d6ce45543#
[14:58] <Laurenceb_> yeah erm...
[14:58] <Laurenceb_> im not sure thats sane
[14:59] <hibby> RAX2 was launched the other day
[14:59] <hibby> we're hoping it's more noisy than RAX at STAC
[15:00] <Laurenceb_> RAX? STAC?
[15:01] <hibby> Radio Aurora Explorer (cubesat)
[15:01] <hibby> STAC - my satellite tracking & Command station I manage in t'university
[15:02] <Laurenceb_> ah cool
[15:03] <hibby> http://rax.engin.umich.edu/
[15:03] <hibby> RAX1 went very quiet very quickly
[15:04] <hibby> and we're interested as it's the same TX as is being used on UKUbe, so we hope it works, lol
[15:04] <hibby> also means I can calibrate the system and see how well it works for real science tm
[15:09] <Lunar_Lander> xD TM
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[15:15] <Lunar_Lander> hi Paradoxial
[15:15] <Paradoxial> Hi Lunar
[15:15] <Paradoxial> How's it going?
[15:23] <Lunar_Lander> I'm good, thanks and you?
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[15:39] <Laurenceb_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNCOTqXepq4
[15:40] <Laurenceb_> maybe someone on here can explain that
[15:42] <hibby> im not familiar with the language
[15:42] <hibby> apart from when I'm stoned
[15:43] <staylo> here's an explanation http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lITBGjNEp08
[15:44] <hibby> staylo: lol
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[16:11] <Lunar_Lander> hi daveake GW8RAK RocketBoy
[16:12] <RocketBoy> :-)
[16:14] <daveake> Greetings from prison ;)
[16:14] <Lunar_Lander> lol yea
[16:16] <Hiena> E
[16:16] <Hiena> Heh, it could be a Norvegian if it has internet access.
[16:16] <daveake> Finnish
[16:17] <daveake> But fortunately it's now a rather comfortable hotel and no longer a jail :)
[16:17] <daveake> Though the restaurant prices are daylight robbery ... :p
[16:18] <Hiena> Well, that is common problem with the prisons. Much of them more and more hotel like...
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[16:19] <Hiena> Flat panel TVs, built in showers, room service....
[16:19] <daveake> !!! Sounds like here ...
[16:26] <Hiena> Hehehe...
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[16:51] <costyn> Laurenceb_: you want a translation for that link you posted?
[16:51] <Laurenceb_> lol maybe
[16:54] <costyn> Laurenceb_: it's quite a lot of text, but the gist of it is a course for men on various stuff that men are bad at; like replacing toilet rolls, putting dishes in the dishwasher, being able to identify dirty clothes hampers (and not use the floor) etc etc
[16:54] <Laurenceb_> oh i see
[16:55] <costyn> Laurenceb_: it was an item that was on Dutch radio, and someone used the sound track and put some stills along with it; nothing special
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[16:56] <Lunar_Lander> ROFL costyn
[16:56] <costyn> it's pretty funny, but my translation/explanation does it no justice
[16:57] <costyn> haha... ok, seems that guy on the radio copy/pasted it from here: http://www.vintfalken.com/two-day-course-for-men/
[16:57] <costyn> that link is the english version of that video
[16:57] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[16:58] <costyn> lol @ IS IT GENETICALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO SIT QUIETLY AS SHE PARALLEL PARKS?
[17:03] <Lunar_Lander> lol
[17:03] <Lunar_Lander> dinnertime!
[17:03] <Lunar_Lander> cu later
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[17:07] Nick change: fsphil-laptop -> fsphil
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[17:46] <joph> good evening
[17:47] <fsphil> hiya joph
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[18:00] <WillDuckworth> hey fsphil
[18:00] <fsphil> howdy WillDuckworth!
[18:00] <WillDuckworth> how's the weather in NI?
[18:01] <WillDuckworth> cracking here
[18:02] <fsphil> bit cloudy but a nice evening - was some sun earlier
[18:03] <fsphil> nice temperature -- not too cold
[18:03] <WillDuckworth> quick question for you...
[18:04] <WillDuckworth> most HAB transmissions use FSK - have you also received decent ranges with AFSK for RTTY?
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[18:05] <fsphil> I've not been able to try yet. The last flight (the android phone I think) I wasn't able to track. I think it was during the week?
[18:05] <fsphil> it was doing sstv too
[18:05] <fsphil> I don't think it would work at this distance without a yagi and preamp
[18:06] <WillDuckworth> hmmm - thinking of doing another one of those android payloads, just investigating different transmitters
[18:07] <fsphil> I think with a decent antenna on the ground and a well made quarter wave on the payload it should be manageable
[18:08] <fsphil> if you fancy tweaking with the android phone you could probably do fsk
[18:09] <fsphil> it would be messing with small parts though - probably not worth it
[18:10] <fsphil> actually I wonder if a little RC-filter and diode would allow you to generate a variable DC voltage
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[18:11] <fsphil> just generate a 10khz wave and vary the volume
[18:12] <WillDuckworth> cheers fsphil - will have a play :)
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[19:56] <Laurenceb_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xh3qt9jhAW0
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[20:14] <NigeyS> ello James
[20:15] <jcoxon> hey
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[20:16] <Upu> evening
[20:17] <Upu> thx jcoxon recieved and appreciated
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[20:18] <jcoxon> ping RocketBoy
[20:18] <jcoxon> np
[20:19] <RocketBoy> jcoxon: yo
[20:19] <jcoxon> hey,
[20:19] <jcoxon> to continue the email
[20:19] <jcoxon> no where near set :-)
[20:20] <RocketBoy> oh right :-)
[20:20] <jcoxon> only just started putting hte plan into place
[20:20] <RocketBoy> lots to do?
[20:20] <jcoxon> but it 'should' fit together
[20:20] <RocketBoy> yeah - an optimistic start
[20:21] <RocketBoy> then the gremlins creep in
[20:21] <jcoxon> indeed
[20:21] <RocketBoy> well if you need a hand with anything let me know
[20:21] <jcoxon> might pick your brain at some point
[20:21] <jcoxon> regarding antennas
[20:21] <jcoxon> as we'd have 2
[20:21] <RocketBoy> sure
[20:22] <RocketBoy> different frequencies though
[20:22] <jcoxon> indeed
[20:23] <jcoxon> is there a trick to it?
[20:23] <NigeyS> APRS & RTTY james ?
[20:23] <RocketBoy> spacing
[20:23] <jcoxon> yeah
[20:23] <jcoxon> NigeyS, am i stealing your idea?
[20:23] <NigeyS> haha ideas cannot be stolen james :)
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[20:24] <RocketBoy> probably a co-ax dipole on top and a ground-plane underneath
[20:25] <RocketBoy> is one option if you don't have a lot of seperation
[20:26] <jcoxon> NigeyS, but you were planning it?
[20:26] <RocketBoy> or could use a dual band antenna and a co-ax phsing arrangement
[20:26] <RocketBoy> phasing
[20:26] <NigeyS> you mean the swift project? that's still going ahead, just doing the website for it actually :)
[20:26] <jcoxon> yeah we need website explaining it
[20:26] <jcoxon> as i've only heard its name being bounced around
[20:26] <NigeyS> www.projectswift.co.uk/about/
[20:27] <fsphil> floating, but intentionally :)
[20:27] <NigeyS> yeah, hopefully.. lol
[20:28] <jcoxon> hehe
[20:28] <jcoxon> i obviously missed this conversation
[20:28] <jcoxon> was it while i was away?
[20:29] <fsphil> just sort of happened really
[20:29] <NigeyS> i brought it up an an idea this time last year
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[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> hi GW8RAK_
[20:29] <GW8RAK_> Evening Lunar
[20:29] <fsphil> basically minimal PCB, with NTX2 + HX1
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> how is the life?
[20:29] <jcoxon> can my flight be useful for you?
[20:29] <GW8RAK_> Having connection problems tonight. Router keeps disconnecting
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[20:30] <GW8RAK_> Had a good weekend. But not ready for work yet. :(
[20:30] <fsphil> when are you launching jcoxon? a big unknown is how good aprs coverage is over eastern europe
[20:30] <NigeyS> jcoxon, yes, very much, would like to see how the aprs performs with the hx1
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> yeah same here GW8RAK_
[20:30] <jcoxon> we are planning 19/20
[20:30] <fsphil> next month?
[20:30] <jcoxon> as a 'plan'
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[20:31] <jcoxon> nov
[20:31] Nick change: GW8RAK_ -> GW8RAK
[20:32] <fsphil> no idea when one of us will be launching .. still messing around with the pcb at the moment
[20:33] <jcoxon> fair enough, mine will be hacked together really
[20:33] <jcoxon> i'm more interested in whether its possible to do 36hr flights
[20:33] <jcoxon> fsphil, how much was the HX1
[20:33] <fsphil> about £20
[20:34] <jcoxon> not bad at all
[20:34] <fsphil> that's what I thought - got the matching receiver too
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[20:34] <RocketBoy> fsphil: what freq. are you planning to use the HX1 on over the UK?
[20:35] <fsphil> It won't be enabled in the uk
[20:35] <NigeyS> hx1 wont be enabled over the uk
[20:35] <NigeyS> meh beat me :p
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> I just ordered this http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9269
[20:35] <fsphil> there'll be a set of safe areas in memory
[20:35] <RocketBoy> ah - thought you may have found 151 or 169 MHz was airborne
[20:35] <fsphil> trouble with those is they won't have any more range than the ntx2
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[20:36] <RocketBoy> what the HX1 will?
[20:36] <jcoxon> 144.800
[20:36] <Lunar_Lander> is that sensor good?
[20:37] <RocketBoy> do you mean 300mW AFSK on 144MHz vs 10mW FSK on 434?
[20:37] <fsphil> yea
[20:38] <fsphil> range is geographic, but there should be far more receivers spread out on 144.800
[20:38] <RocketBoy> suspect it won't be as good
[20:38] <RocketBoy> I think we got 30Km out of 10mW AFSK on 434MHz
[20:39] <GW8RAK> I did look at link calculations once and for the same performance, IIRC, about 230mW was needed for same performance
[20:39] <fsphil> won't know what the range will be sadly, can't even test that on a normal flight
[20:39] <jcoxon> yeah true
[20:40] <jcoxon> it'll be worth promoting normal tracking
[20:40] <jcoxon> just in case
[20:40] <fsphil> yea
[20:40] <fsphil> before the launch this time :)
[20:40] <jcoxon> yes thats your advantage
[20:41] <fsphil> I think people in the states have managed about 400km with the hx1+aprs
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[20:45] <RocketBoy> yeah - I just calculated 480 based on the 434Mhz/30Km figure and the advantage of 144MHz and 300mw over 10mW
[20:46] <Lunar_Lander> and is the sensor good?
[20:46] <RocketBoy> 24.7db advantage = 16x as far
[20:47] <RocketBoy> so probably not quit as good as FSK 434
[20:47] <fsphil> yea - afsk + 1200 baud isn't a good mix
[20:48] <fsphil> on the plus side the higher speed means the packets are going to be brief
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[21:16] <Laurenceb_> apparently man lab is sexist and misogynist, and we shouldn't watch it
[21:16] <Laurenceb_> so says mumsnet
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[21:16] <fsphil> it must be true then!
[21:17] <Laurenceb_> i guess that means no more hab launches with james may
[21:18] <GW8RAK> History of NASA Spaceflight Tracking and Data Network http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20080020389_2008020674.pdf
[21:19] <Laurenceb_> theres some cool pdfs on there
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[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> cool
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[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> hi Dan-K2VOL
[21:51] <Dan-K2VOL> hi Lunar_Lander
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[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> hi jcoxon
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[21:59] <hibby> hola
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[22:18] <Laurenceb_> muhaha
[22:18] <Laurenceb_> si4432 is alive on Dactyl
[22:19] <Laurenceb_> i need to setup a base station with my eval boards now to try out the mesh networking lib
[22:20] <SpeedEvil> :)
[22:20] <SpeedEvil> You'd just been screwing with the sensors so far?
[22:21] <SpeedEvil> I was pondering getting some of the new batch of cheap TI watches.
[22:21] <Laurenceb_> yeah - hadnt tested the si4432 radio properly
[22:21] <SpeedEvil> But I decided that even at $25, I was probably going to end up just sticking it on a shelf and looking at it sadly from time to time.
[22:21] <Laurenceb_> annoyingly it reboots as soon as i turn on the kalman filter with everything else running
[22:22] <Laurenceb_> hopefully just some clumsily c&p spi code that was somewhere it shouldnt have been
[22:22] <Laurenceb_> i cant be bothered to go outside and test everything running properly again now
[22:22] <SpeedEvil> :)
[22:22] <SpeedEvil> how much CPU are you using?
[22:23] <Laurenceb_> 100%
[22:23] <SpeedEvil> Or alternatively - how much can you back off sanely.
[22:23] <Laurenceb_> oh.. about 10%
[22:23] <SpeedEvil> to 10%, or 90%?
[22:23] <Laurenceb_> i can spare 10%
[22:23] <SpeedEvil> I see.
[22:23] <Laurenceb_> on F4 obviously ill be much much more
[22:23] <Laurenceb_> *itll
[22:24] <Laurenceb_> someones just benchmarked F4 as 48MFLOPS with GCC
[22:25] <Laurenceb_> with some realistic c code to shuffle floats in out of the fpu
[22:25] <SpeedEvil> There is a FPU?
[22:25] <SpeedEvil> Silly.
[22:25] <Laurenceb_> no
[22:25] <Laurenceb_> very very cool
[22:25] <SpeedEvil> ah
[22:25] <SpeedEvil> huh?
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[22:26] <LazyLeopard> Oh dear... I remember when 1MFLOP was fast...
[22:26] <SpeedEvil> :)
[22:26] <SpeedEvil> It's barking mad.
[22:29] <LazyLeopard> ...and kit that'd run that fast cost many many squid...
[22:29] <Laurenceb_> my stm32f103 is doing about 2Mflop
[22:29] <Laurenceb_> in a £4 TQFP48
[22:30] <Laurenceb_> id be tempted to just run uclinux on F4
[22:30] <Laurenceb_> but it needs a lot of ram
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[22:31] <SpeedEvil> Just wait 4 years, and you'll have a ~8M RAM and 2M ROM part in a similar package, with MMU.
[22:31] <Laurenceb_> oh i got the pitot noise down
[22:32] <Laurenceb_> turned out the adc has a 'global' i2c address at the same address as the baro
[22:32] <Laurenceb_> which meant the internal filter register kept getting overwritten
[22:32] <Laurenceb_> ive done some fudges now to avoid it/chuck out the corrupted data
[22:32] <SpeedEvil> :)
[22:33] <Laurenceb_> and its down to 1.7Pa rms noise at 16sps
[22:33] <SpeedEvil> Wow.
[22:33] <SpeedEvil> :)
[22:33] Action: SpeedEvil sighs.
[22:33] <SpeedEvil> 10Pa is currently screwing me.
[22:33] <SpeedEvil> I was surprised that that low a head is quite adequate to start a thermosiphone.
[22:35] <SpeedEvil> Oh well - I think I've worked out where I can stick a marble in the pipework.
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[23:11] <Lunar_Lander> hi daveake
[23:13] <Dan-K2VOL> well aren't these interesting: http://intricode.com/Products/satellite.htm
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[23:21] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[00:00] --- Mon Oct 31 2011