highaltitude.log.20111027

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[00:44] <griffonbot> @LVL1WhiteStar: Hose ducts are out, giant valves are in! Replacing the overflow tube on the transatlantic balloons with a spring valve #ARHAB #UKHAS [http://twitter.com/LVL1WhiteStar/status/129357677380911105]
[00:46] Nick change: Wil5on_ -> wil5on
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[01:01] <Zuph> yo.
[01:08] <k5egg> my question about balloons
[01:08] <k5egg> why not have them float for days at, say, 70 kft
[01:08] <k5egg> than float for minutes/couple hours at 100k+
[01:08] <hibby> because we struggle to control float at any altitude, currently
[01:09] <Zuph> Aye
[01:10] <hibby> The white star guys are working on one that'll float at 30k for maybe 3 days
[01:10] <Zuph> It's a huge problem.
[01:10] <Zuph> After that, we want one to float at 40k for 30+ days :)
[01:10] <hibby> but consider power use vs weight vs energy source vs balloon lift and inefficiencies vs more variables
[01:11] <hibby> it gets very tricky very quickly.
[01:11] <Zuph> Nevermind the difficulty of engineering a balloon capable of floating.
[01:11] <hibby> figured out why my connection is being such a dick...
[01:12] <hibby> totally not uploading 120 gigabytes of music to google music....
[01:12] <Zuph> lulz
[01:12] <hibby> that's taken me ages to work out
[01:12] <hibby> i've been blaming all sorts of shit
[01:12] <Zuph> haha
[01:12] <hibby> msotly traffic shaPING
[01:12] <Zuph> I've got some nifty QoS rules on the router that keep that from happening.
[01:12] <hibby> maybe called my isp about it too
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[01:13] Action: hibby isn't that smart
[01:13] <hibby> :p
[01:14] Action: hibby swears at the internet
[01:14] <Zuph> heh
[01:15] <Zuph> All that was set up when I had too much time and too little to do.
[01:15] <hibby> now it won't let me use my credit card
[01:15] <Zuph> It's just magically kept working.
[01:15] <Zuph> Just like that IPv6 tunnel.
[01:15] <hibby> firefox crashes as I press checkout.
[01:16] <Zuph> ruh roh
[01:16] <hibby> WORK, DAMMIT
[01:16] <hibby> I WANT TO GIVE THE VIDEO GAMES COMPANY MY MONIES
[01:16] <Zuph> hah
[01:16] <Darkside> bf3?
[01:16] <hibby> maybe
[01:18] <hibby> ... ie runs the website better.
[01:18] <hibby> sickening
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[01:22] <hibby> 2.5MB/s... happy download rate
[01:23] <Zuph> So, does anyone know wtf happened to the uIP project? All references to it now link to this ContikiOS garbage.
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[01:31] <hibby> bed for me
[01:31] <hibby> x
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[01:38] <Dan-K2VOL> hey
[01:39] <Dan-K2VOL> zuph, let's not get cocky! I'd like to underpromise and overdeliver
[01:39] <Dan-K2VOL> :-)
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[01:45] <Zuph> hehe
[01:45] <Zuph> Okay Dan-K2VOL, after our ZP flights, we're aiming for 12 feet and -7 hours.
[01:49] <Dan-K2VOL> hehe that's the spirit!
[01:49] <Dan-K2VOL> I'd be comfortable saying something more like a week is the goal (which will be quite the acheivement, and likely the limit for tetroons)
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[02:07] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL: Think the seams won't stand repeated pressurization cycles?
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[05:03] <griffonbot> @LVL1WhiteStar: First revision drawings of ZP balloon vent valve frame, 9.5 inches in diameter #UKHAS #ARHAB http://t.co/dV0EZxvW http://t.co/WzhWHTXe [http://twitter.com/LVL1WhiteStar/status/129422961651355648]
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[06:23] <eroomde> morning
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[06:27] <Elwell>
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[06:38] <eroomde> 'Chris Evans' Radio 2 breakfast show audience rose from 8.6 to 8.8 million.
[06:38] <eroomde> That represents an extra 400,000 listeners, compared to the same period last year.'
[06:38] <eroomde> from a bbc news article
[06:38] <eroomde> how can a sub editor read that and think it makes any sense at all?
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[08:26] <Elwell> the sub-editor freelances as a banker
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[09:07] <fsphil> lol
[09:07] <fsphil> those extra 400,000 listeners are all really small?
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[09:30] <x-f> fsphil, there are no 400000 between 8.6 and 8.8 millions :)
[09:34] <earthshine> Morning
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[10:08] <fsphil> any high altitude frivolities happening this weekend?
[10:10] <Upu> Good question
[10:10] <Upu> not heard anything
[10:11] <Upu> a weekend off maybe ? :)
[10:12] <fsphil> first of many probably, with the weather getting colder
[10:12] <fsphil> only silly people launch in snow
[10:14] <Upu> when are you launching anyway
[10:14] <Upu> you've not been up for ages
[10:15] <fsphil> I know, need to hurry up and use these balloons.
[10:15] <fsphil> Pinged DM earlier in the week, no response yet
[10:15] <Upu> ring him
[10:15] <fsphil> I'm not good on the phone, but I'm going to have to at this rate
[10:15] <Upu> you're better than he is
[10:15] <Upu> just remember its his job
[10:16] <Upu> Going to speak to Rob this weekend if I end up calling David I'll mention yours as well if you want,
[10:17] <Laurenceb> http://artoftrolling.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/chatroulette-trolling-worst-car-ever.jpg
[10:22] <fsphil> No harm, be interesting to see what he says :)
[10:29] <eroomde> he's not good on the phone either
[10:29] <eroomde> oh, Upu just said that
[10:29] <eroomde> yeah he's a bit evasive and hopeless
[10:29] <eroomde> but it does apply the pressure
[10:31] <UpuWork> he sounds a bit wet to me
[10:34] <eroomde> v
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[13:27] <Zuph> ugh, morning, #highaltitude
[13:28] <SpeedEvil> Morning.
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[13:45] <jonsowman> ping eroomde
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[13:47] <eroomde> pong jonsowman
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[13:51] <mattltm> Hi all :)
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[14:04] <Upu> http://googlegeodevelopers.blogspot.com/2011/10/introduction-of-usage-limits-to-maps.html
[14:05] <Upu> this going to have an impact on spacenear.us ?
[14:07] <SpeedEvil> Very unlikely.
[14:07] <SpeedEvil> Web sites and applications using each of the Maps API may at no cost generate: up to 25,000 map loads per day for each API
[14:08] <Zuph> How many hits did spacenear see when APEX got slashdotted/reddited?
[14:08] <SpeedEvil> As I read the t&cs - you can have 25000 visits to the site per day.
[14:08] <Upu> no idea
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[14:11] <Zuph> Who has access to spacenear usage stats?
[14:11] <eroomde> natrium
[14:14] <Zuph> Thanks, eroomde
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[14:15] <NigeyS> ping jonsowman
[14:15] <jonsowman> pong NigeyS
[14:15] <NigeyS> hey jon, can i borrow you a sec pls sir ?
[14:16] <jonsowman> of course
[14:24] <hibby> yay
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[14:55] <Laurenceb> http://www.reactionengines.co.uk/news_sep11.html
[14:55] <Laurenceb> nice
[14:56] <NigeyS> Laurenceb
[14:56] <NigeyS> did you mention something at the conference..
[14:56] <NigeyS> about the ublox 6 and power supplies ?
[14:57] <Laurenceb> ublox5 is sensitive to power supply noise
[14:57] <Laurenceb> dont know about 6
[14:57] <NigeyS> ahhh ok, thought it was the 6
[14:57] <hibby> likely will be
[14:57] <hibby> it's best to assume it is
[14:57] <NigeyS> would imagine so
[14:58] <NigeyS> so the best thing is to keep it as far away from the vcc in and vreg as possible ?
[14:59] <Laurenceb> no, opposite way around
[15:00] <Laurenceb> it needs well regulated power
[15:00] <Laurenceb> good decoupling
[15:00] <NigeyS> aha i see, make sure i remember the decoupling caps then :D
[15:01] <hibby> definately. Fire a big one and a small one in parallel to account for ALL POSSIBLE SITUATIONS
[15:01] <hibby> for our stuff we had the ublox on a dedicated circuit with only a common ground to the rest of ti all
[15:01] <NigeyS> will do, the schematic will be up for every1 to critique soon
[15:01] <NigeyS> ahh
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[15:09] <Upu> is that the schematic I half did ? eek :)
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[15:11] <NigeyS> haha its doing the rounds between me you and phil
[15:12] <NigeyS> i fiddled about with the board design again upu, it was errr.. an experience
[15:13] <Laurenceb> http://www.iter.org/album/construction/tkmfoundations#275
[15:13] <Laurenceb> extreme
[15:13] <jonsowman> wow
[15:14] <NigeyS> bloody hell, how much is that thing expected to weigh?!
[15:14] <Laurenceb> about a million tonnes
[15:17] <NigeyS> jeez
[15:24] <Zuph> Can someone help confirm that the equation in this datasheet makes no sense at all? http://bit.ly/s7kUxE Page 3-8
[15:30] <Zuph> I don't see wtf c0 and c1 are.
[15:30] <hibby> C0 is shunt capacitance of crystal
[15:30] <hibby> im cuessing C1 is capacitance of Cv1?
[15:31] <hibby> it's offa odd though
[15:31] <hibby> as it's CL = blah
[15:31] <hibby> but then in the equation CL keeps appearing
[15:33] <Zuph> I'm not sure what they mean by shunt capacitance.Cv2? Capacitance of the switching circuit? Doesn't make sense given the equations below.
[15:36] <SamSilver> is page 27 any help
[15:37] <SamSilver> or is that the problem
[15:37] <Zuph> Yeah, that equation is the problem
[15:38] <Zuph> I don't see where that c0 and c1 relate to physical capacitance of something in the system
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[17:03] <Zuph> Oh damnit
[17:04] <Zuph> figured it out, hibby SamSilver
[17:04] <Zuph> In the RLC model for a crystal oscillator, c0 is the shunt capacitance (resulting from the piezo plates), and c1 is the motional capacitance.
[17:05] <Zuph> Of course, no bloody crystal datasheets give those values.
[17:09] <NigeyS> having fun there Brad ?
[17:09] <Zuph> More fun than if I was doing actual work :-p
[17:09] <NigeyS> lol fair play
[17:13] <SamSilver> Zuph: good
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[17:21] <Hiena> Zuph: Yup. You could be faster soldering the whole schemati together, than simulate an unknown crystal.
[17:23] <Zuph> Yeah :(
[17:23] <Hiena> What do you want to build?
[17:24] <Zuph> Oh, just toying around with some ideas for simple FSK UHF transmitters
[17:26] <Hiena> Ugh. I would rather try some PLL based modulator.
[17:27] <Hiena> Less pain in the bottom. Built in oscillator, modulator, and so on.
[17:27] <Zuph> I want to do the modulation myself, though!
[17:28] <Hiena> Also, the most has 50 Ohm matched output, so no problem to hook some PA.
[17:28] <Hiena> So, use the modulator as oscillator.
[17:28] <Zuph> Oh, this chip I'm fooling around with is basically what you're talking about.
[17:29] <Hiena> UHF is messi. One wrong bend on the wire, and you are out of the channel.
[17:29] <Zuph> To get a desired frequency shift, you have to calculate an external cap based on the crystal specs.
[17:29] <Hiena> What kind oc chit?
[17:30] <Hiena> -t+p
[17:30] <Zuph> TDK5100 from infineon
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[17:33] <Zuph> Channel accuracy isn't important, as long as I stay inside 420-450MHz. Price, number of external components, and small shift are important.
[17:36] nosebleedKT (nosebleedK@79.167.0.208) joined #highaltitude.
[17:37] <nosebleedKT> fsphil-laptop
[17:38] <Hiena> Well, that case i would measure the crystal.
[17:39] <nosebleedKT> I love you all
[17:39] <nosebleedKT> !!!!!
[17:39] <nosebleedKT> They called me from another job
[17:39] <nosebleedKT> they accepted me
[17:39] <nosebleedKT> 1000e mixed
[17:39] <costyn> nosebleedKT: nice! :)
[17:39] <costyn> nosebleedKT: congrats
[17:40] <nosebleedKT> insurance+cash
[17:40] <costyn> nosebleedKT: also PHP or more sysadmin/network stuff?
[17:40] <Hiena> Did they pay for you?
[17:40] Action: nosebleedKT happy!
[17:40] <nosebleedKT> linux system engineer
[17:40] <nosebleedKT> linux/networks
[17:40] <costyn> nosebleedKT: cool... seems like a pretty common job here on #highaltitude :)
[17:40] <nosebleedKT> im ultra happy
[17:40] <nosebleedKT> im high altitude happy
[17:40] <costyn> hehehe
[17:41] <nosebleedKT> cant be!
[17:41] <nosebleedKT> i asked them if they are sure and they started laughing
[17:41] <Hiena> nosebleedKT, we will fill the next balloon with you.
[17:41] <nosebleedKT> Hiena :)
[17:41] <Hiena> Seems, you are cheaper than the helium.
[17:41] <costyn> hehehe
[17:41] <nosebleedKT> lol
[17:41] <nosebleedKT> I love you all!
[17:41] <nosebleedKT> I dont care
[17:42] <nosebleedKT> where is fsphil
[17:42] <nosebleedKT> he needs to know !
[17:44] <fsphil-laptop> congrats nosebleedKT :)
[17:44] <nosebleedKT> YAY
[17:45] <nosebleedKT> normal work in an abnormal country !
[17:46] <fsphil-laptop> no country is normal ;) except maybe Holland
[17:46] <nosebleedKT> i dont know what to do to express happiness !
[17:46] <nosebleedKT> i live in misery for so long!
[17:46] <fsphil-laptop> open a savings account :)
[17:47] <nosebleedKT> hahahaha
[17:47] <fsphil-laptop> if you trust the banks that is ;)
[17:47] <nosebleedKT> no savings
[17:47] <nosebleedKT> in my house
[17:47] <nosebleedKT> and in paypal for the new orders!
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[17:48] shipit (~shipit@c-67-180-23-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #highaltitude.
[17:48] <nosebleedKT> now i can run the project normally
[17:48] <nosebleedKT> Im starting 15th of this month
[17:49] <nosebleedKT> november i mean
[17:50] <fsphil-laptop> not too far away
[17:50] <fsphil-laptop> brrr,, going to be cold :p
[17:52] <costyn> fsphil-laptop: wait... Holland is normal? Why has no one told me?
[17:53] <costyn> :)
[17:53] <fsphil-laptop> apart from the clogs :)
[17:54] <fsphil-laptop> I did the tourist thing there once, and half the shows we saw where filled with them
[17:54] <fsphil-laptop> shops*
[17:59] <hibby> http://youtu.be/sg6F85BTD4k favourite thing on the internet. ever.
[18:00] Lunar_Lander (~Miranda@p54A07922.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[18:00] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[18:00] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.demon.co.uk) left irc: Quit: Bye
[18:01] <Lunar_Lander> nosebleedKT : letter is on the way
[18:01] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[18:02] <costyn> fsphil-laptop: well thats what you get when you visit amsterdam. very tourist oriented :)
[18:03] <fsphil-laptop> nice place though, was a great week
[18:03] <Lunar_Lander> hi fsphil costyn
[18:04] <fsphil-laptop> howdy LL
[18:04] <costyn> thanks, I get bored with the landscape though
[18:04] <nosebleedKT> Lunar_Lander
[18:04] <costyn> Lunar_Lander: helloes!
[18:04] <nosebleedKT> Lunar_Lander!
[18:05] <fsphil-laptop> mountains !!
[18:05] <costyn> yes
[18:05] <costyn> well even some low hills would be welcome
[18:06] <costyn> although I guess a flat country does make long distance tracking easier (unless you're on top of a mountain)
[18:07] <Lunar_Lander> yes nosebleedKT
[18:07] daveake (~daveake@193.184.159.66) joined #highaltitude.
[18:08] <nosebleedKT> Lunar_Lander!
[18:08] shipit (~shipit@c-67-180-23-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[18:09] <Lunar_Lander> are you OK?
[18:09] <nosebleedKT> NO
[18:10] <nosebleedKT> :)
[18:10] <Lunar_Lander> xD why?
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[18:20] <nosebleedKT> Lunar_Lander
[18:20] <Lunar_Lander> yes?
[18:20] <nosebleedKT> I got job as linux system engineer. 1000e mixed.
[18:20] <Lunar_Lander> that sounds good
[18:20] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[18:20] <nosebleedKT> start 15th novenber
[18:21] <nosebleedKT> thats sounds crazy in this country !
[18:21] <nosebleedKT> 2nd. Check your paypal. You have 20e :)
[18:22] <Lunar_Lander> thanks! :)
[18:22] <Lunar_Lander> and congrats! :D
[18:22] <nosebleedKT> 3rd. I got the boards. So expect a package this period !
[18:22] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[18:22] <nosebleedKT> 4rd. seeedstudio sent me 12boards instread of 10 :P
[18:22] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[18:23] <daveake> :)
[18:23] <nosebleedKT> 5th. Im not good at all!
[18:24] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[18:25] niftylettuce (u2733@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nkfjcvkldltqrqxo) joined #highaltitude.
[18:25] <nosebleedKT> 6th the boars look lol
[18:25] <nosebleedKT> white as milk
[18:25] <nosebleedKT> milkyway boards
[18:25] <nosebleedKT> :)
[18:26] <Lunar_Lander> xD#
[18:26] <daveake> I'm in prison.
[18:26] <daveake> It had to happen sooner or later :p
[18:26] <daveake> http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/europe/helsinki-hots-up-with-hip-hotels-878017.html
[18:27] <Lunar_Lander> ?! daveake don't say that that is true
[18:27] <daveake> See the link :)
[18:28] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[18:28] <Lunar_Lander> so you are in finland?
[18:29] <daveake> Finland! Finland! Finland! That's the country for me :)
[18:30] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[18:30] <Lunar_Lander> are you visiting Vaisala?
[18:32] <daveake> No, just a long weekend break in Helsinki
[18:33] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[18:33] <Lunar_Lander> Vaisala is definately the place for us
[18:33] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[18:33] <daveake> :)
[18:35] <fsphil-laptop> daveake, an habitual criminal
[18:36] <daveake> They told me to go to reHAB but I said no, no, no
[18:37] <daveake> We eat in the "jasilbird restaurant" in the basement of the pri... hotel. The prices were robbery!
[18:37] <Lunar_Lander> ROFL
[18:37] <daveake> jailbird
[18:37] <Lunar_Lander> http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/15/worstfreezeframe.png/
[18:37] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[18:38] <daveake> Now that should be locked up
[18:39] Laurenceb_ (~Laurence@host109-157-38-126.range109-157.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[18:40] <fsphil-laptop> what is her life?
[18:40] <fsphil-laptop> aaah
[18:40] <Lunar_Lander> unemployed, brain full of esoteric shit
[18:40] <fsphil-laptop> was trying to translate the subtitle
[18:40] <fsphil-laptop> Sahne is cream?
[18:40] <Lunar_Lander> "Whipped Cream is her life"
[18:40] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[18:40] <daveake> figured
[18:40] <Lunar_Lander> she eats whipped cream from those dispenser cans
[18:40] <daveake> figures
[18:40] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[18:40] <Zuph> lol
[18:41] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_cVweFIsQI
[18:41] <daveake> We give that to our cats sometimes. They are fat too.
[18:41] <fsphil-laptop> poor kitties!
[18:42] <Zuph> Lunar_Lander: This is gold.
[18:42] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[18:45] <Lunar_Lander> when she tries to extinguish the burning toilet
[18:45] <Lunar_Lander> with soap
[18:45] <Lunar_Lander> and toothpaste
[18:45] <Lunar_Lander> and hairspray (!)
[18:46] <fsphil-laptop> Aaah,, meine augen!!
[18:46] <hibby> MEIN HERZ BRENNT
[18:47] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[18:47] <hibby> was actually listening to rammstein
[18:47] <hibby> post shower pre-ceilidh music
[18:47] <fsphil-laptop> aaah rammstein .. good to relax to :)
[18:47] <hibby> for that bit where you wnt to squeeze a bit more engineering out to catch up before the drinking begins
[18:48] <hibby> tonight's the casual kilt
[18:48] <hibby> goes with a black t-shirt
[18:48] <hibby> now do I wear the "to the pub" comedy shirt
[18:49] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[18:49] <hibby> or the "whats your tequila face" t shirt
[18:49] <fsphil-laptop> haha, not seen this in years. it hasn't improved: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DJ0Inxfmyk
[18:49] <hibby> lolol
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[18:53] <fsphil-laptop> I still don't know what the song is about :)
[18:53] <nosebleedKT> Lunar_Lander: http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/293356_308422269171824_259791880701530_1405599_174677571_n.jpg
[18:53] <nosebleedKT> small tough and milky
[18:55] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[18:55] <Lunar_Lander> cool!:)
[18:55] <Lunar_Lander> did you weigh it already?
[18:55] <nosebleedKT> no
[18:56] <nosebleedKT> :)
[18:56] <nosebleedKT> its too light to get weighted :P
[18:56] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[18:58] <Zuph> Means you need a better scale :-p
[18:58] <nosebleedKT> :PPpp
[18:58] <Lunar_Lander> Zuph : btw, do you know what youtube tabs I also have open besides that stupid woman?
[18:59] <Zuph> What's that?
[18:59] <Lunar_Lander> MIT Physics
[18:59] <Zuph> lol
[18:59] <Lunar_Lander> xD intelligence and stupidity next to each other
[18:59] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[18:59] <Zuph> I can only imagine that video is *less* funny if you know German :-p
[19:00] <steve|m> oh... my... god
[19:01] <fsphil> just found my fsa03's, they're the -lp version. yay :)
[19:02] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[19:03] Action: hibby observes his calculator being very clever
[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> one thing you learn in Physics is that a calculator isn't really required
[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> it actually doesn't really help you when you work with variables
[19:05] <hibby> adding together loads of things in cos(x)+i*sin(x) format, and it shortens them all to e^(x*i) then does the sums
[19:05] <Lunar_Lander> nosebleedKT : cool that you put up that Maxim application note on FB :)
[19:06] <Lunar_Lander> yeah, euler's formula is cool! :)
[19:06] <hibby> Lunar_Lander: when you're calculating damping of off balance rotation in a spacecraft, it comes in handy to have a calculator for actual numbers
[19:06] <Lunar_Lander> true
[19:06] <nosebleedKT> Lunar_Lander
[19:06] <hibby> I can assign that result a variable, say c
[19:07] <nosebleedKT> I plan to put geiger counter
[19:07] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[19:07] <nosebleedKT> from adafruit
[19:07] <hibby> and then go |c| and it gives me the magnitude output
[19:07] <nosebleedKT> 100$
[19:07] <nosebleedKT> now i have money
[19:07] <nosebleedKT> I will*
[19:07] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:07] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:07] <Lunar_Lander> just one note
[19:07] <nosebleedKT> tell merkel I might rape her :P
[19:07] <Lunar_Lander> that tube won't react to alpha radiation
[19:07] <nosebleedKT> its ok
[19:07] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[19:08] <nosebleedKT> i will put it just to give a scientific reason to habing
[19:09] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:12] <Lunar_Lander> hibby : that is cool
[19:13] <hibby> Lunar_Lander: indeed, i'm impressed
[19:15] fsphil-eee (~phil@2001:8b0:34:1:215:afff:fe9f:bf8e) joined #highaltitude.
[19:16] <fsphil-eee> moar laptops :)
[19:16] <hibby> i could actually wrap all that in a macro
[19:16] <hibby> and it'd be really simple to do repeatedly
[19:17] Action: hibby looks with fear at the donner kebab pot noodle $flatmate has just made for him
[19:18] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[19:18] <hibby> "there you go. If you still like meat in the morning, I'll pay you a fiver"
[19:19] <fsphil-eee> lol
[19:19] <hibby> darn vegan
[19:19] <fsphil-eee> It's Not Worth It!
[19:19] <hibby> how hard can it be?
[19:22] Paradoxial (~Paradoxia@pool-108-28-22-94.washdc.fios.verizon.net) joined #highaltitude.
[19:26] <hibby> it's not that bad
[19:26] <hibby> but not exactly good
[19:26] <Zuph> hah
[19:26] <fsphil-eee> can you still feel your toes?
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> hi Paradoxial
[19:26] <Paradoxial> Hi Lunar
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
[19:30] <Paradoxial> Pretty good, wbu?
[19:31] fred2890 (~quassel@74-210-249-160.ro.cgocable.ca) joined #highaltitude.
[19:34] <hibby> i might have to forfeit this fiver
[19:35] <Lunar_Lander> same here
[19:35] <Lunar_Lander> today, I was on the blackboard in quantum mechanics and presented my homework
[19:35] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[19:36] <eroomde> evening
[19:36] <fsphil-eee> "Did you do your homework?" "Only if you don't observe it"
[19:36] <fsphil-eee> howdy eroomde
[19:39] <hibby> I WIN THE CHALLENGE
[19:39] <fsphil-eee> at what cost
[19:39] <hibby> think i need a fried pizza to cleanse me
[19:39] <Lunar_Lander> xD fsphil-eee
[19:39] shipit (~shipit@c-67-180-23-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #highaltitude.
[19:40] <eroomde> I just bought an entire chicken so I had something (a pie) to do with some leftover leeks. The tail wagging the dog.
[19:41] <hibby> fsphil-eee: i don't know yet
[19:45] <fsphil-eee> I'd like to like veggies, but most are just blah
[19:49] <hibby> lol
[19:53] <Lunar_Lander> ROFL fsphil-eee
[19:53] <Lunar_Lander> and Zuph
[19:53] <Lunar_Lander> she finally found a job in a bakery
[19:53] <Lunar_Lander> and her first task was to make rolls
[19:53] <Lunar_Lander> and the rolls were burned black
[19:53] <Lunar_Lander> and she tried to cover them in cream to hide that
[19:53] <Lunar_Lander> :D
[19:54] NATO_ (c00cb807@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.12.184.7) joined #highaltitude.
[19:56] <fsphil-eee> 350 updates . sheesh fedora, it wasn't *that* long since I updated :)
[19:57] <eroomde> or the operating system
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[20:11] <hibby> Dan-K2VOL ping
[20:12] <Dan-K2VOL> hey hibby
[20:12] <hibby> take a peek on your google group ;)
[20:12] <Dan-K2VOL> okeydokey
[20:13] <hibby> Zuph: feel free to also
[20:14] <hibby> :)
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> hi Dan-K2VOL and Zuph
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> how do you like The Big Bang Theory?
[20:16] Action: hibby is out
[20:16] <hibby> speak later
[20:16] <hibby> x
[20:26] <griffonbot> Received email: Alex Landless "Re: [UKHAS] Apex Alpha Write Up"
[20:26] nickle (57c23d82@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.194.61.130) joined #highaltitude.
[20:27] <nickle> Can anyone give me some advice on transceivers?
[20:30] <mattltm> What do you want to know nickle?
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[20:34] <eroomde> Zuph, just reading whitestar mailing list
[20:34] <eroomde> i don't think goertzel will help you
[20:34] <eroomde> it's really just for finding the magnitude of a specific frequency
[20:34] <eroomde> if you want to find the magnitudes at a whole bunch of different freqs, fft is still your best bet
[20:34] <eroomde> computationally
[20:40] <Zuph> eroomde: Mostly, I was suggesting it as a way to bodge up a quick prototype with some crap micros.
[20:40] <Zuph> eroomde: Now that I've played around with this M4 DSP a little, it'd be trivial to do a real fft.
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[20:42] <nickle> Back again.
[20:42] <nickle> On the transceiver front I was looking at the Yaesu 817ND.
[20:42] <nickle> What do I need in terms of arials, power supplies, any other bits?
[20:43] <russss> it comes with a whip aerial
[20:43] <mattltm> nickle: Are you a ham?
[20:43] <russss> and a PSU
[20:43] <nickle> Nope, not a Ham
[20:43] <mattltm> so you just want to use it for RX?
[20:43] <nickle> So I presume I need to register for a license
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[20:43] <mattltm> nickle: Where are you?
[20:44] Hiena (~boreger@81.93.195.181.datatrans.hu) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[20:44] <nickle> yep - just RX, and maybe 130.1 MHz 130.4 RX/TX
[20:44] <nickle> Based in London
[20:45] <mattltm> You can't tx on it legally :(
[20:45] <mattltm> You will need to sit a UK Foundation course if you want to use it to transmit
[20:46] <mattltm> Its very easy to pass :)
[20:46] <mattltm> but you can use it to recive HAB flights and track.
[20:46] <nickle> For the TX on those freq I would need a FRTOL
[20:48] <mattltm> FRTOL?
[20:49] <nickle> Flight Radio Telephony Operator's License
[20:49] <mattltm> Ahh, you are a pilot?
[20:49] <nickle> yep
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[20:49] <mattltm> I think you will need to use a type approved radio for operation on the air band freqs.
[20:50] <mattltm> The ft817 is not type approved for that use.
[20:50] <nickle> I've already got a handheld 760 channel
[20:50] <nickle> I need to get the FRTOL anyway
[20:50] <nickle> OK so back to HAB stuff.
[20:50] <mattltm> In fact, im sure that the 817 cant transmitt on the airband allocation
[20:50] <russss> yeah the FT-817 will prevent you from transmitting on non-amateur bands by default
[20:51] <russss> you can circumvent that, but then it's not type-approved so your FRTOL will probably prevent you using it
[20:51] <mattltm> Yes, it ccan be opened up (widebanded) but it will still inhibit tx on airband.
[20:51] <Upu> Evening all
[20:51] <russss> mattltm: ah
[20:51] <mattltm> Hi Upu
[20:51] <Upu> Anyone come across this http://licensing.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/spectrum/amateur-radio/apply-for-a-licence/ofw306.pdf
[20:52] <mattltm> Upu: Its a NOV
[20:52] <Upu> theoretically will allow us to transmit from the air at any power we wish and at any amateur frequency we wish
[20:52] <mattltm> Notice of Notice of Variation
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[20:52] <mattltm> Theoretically yes, praticly, no
[20:53] <Upu> well apparently as long as we can turn it off they are unlikely to refuse it
[20:53] <Upu> however you do need a full license and to have held it for at least a year
[20:53] <mattltm> Upu: Are you a full holder?
[20:53] <Upu> not yet no
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[20:54] <mattltm> NoV's that request somthing other than higher power, automated stations or alternative callsigns are hard to get.
[20:54] <mattltm> In my experiance
[20:54] <mattltm> Not that I have a full call but I know many who have applied and have been refussed.
[20:54] <eroomde> dear ofcom
[20:55] <eroomde> i want a unicorn
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[20:55] <mattltm> Funny though because a foundation or 2e0 CAN hold a NoV.
[20:55] <jonsowman> more likely to get a unicorn out of them than anything else
[20:55] <eroomde> it might have more than 20mW erp magic
[20:55] <mattltm> lol, too right jonsowman
[20:55] <eroomde> they are very magical creatures, you see
[20:55] <eroomde> and their horns have gain
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[20:55] <mattltm> I have a NoV for my foundation call :)
[20:56] <jonsowman> eroomde: lol
[20:56] <mattltm> eroomde: are they directional?
[20:56] <Upu> lol
[20:56] <Upu> a unicorn
[20:56] <Upu> sigh
[20:56] <eroomde> mattltm: no
[20:56] <eroomde> they have lobes towards orphans
[20:56] <Upu> anyway just of interest
[20:57] <eroomde> nulls towards bad people
[20:57] <jonsowman> haha
[20:57] <mattltm> lol.
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[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> OFCOM doesn't shower on a regular basis
[21:01] <eroomde> the posh guy in Fresh Meat is hilarious
[21:02] <eroomde> on hearing has dad has had a heart attack but hasn't told him
[21:02] <eroomde> 'OMG, you couldn't just text me to say 'Jonathan: had a hearters''
[21:04] <Dan-K2VOL> lol
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[21:08] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[22:03] Action: Laurenceb_ fails
[22:03] <Laurenceb_> the pitot adc on daxctyl board has a global config address thats the same as the baro sensor
[22:04] <Laurenceb_> should have RTFM
[22:10] <SpeedEvil> :/
[22:12] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] Apex Alpha Write Up"
[22:14] <Laurenceb_> i can 'fix' it by setting up a conversion before i read the baro
[22:15] <Laurenceb_> rather annoying
[22:15] <Laurenceb_> explains main reason i was getting excessive noise before
[22:16] <griffonbot> Received email: Jon Sowman "Re: [UKHAS] Apex Alpha Write Up"
[22:16] <Laurenceb_> the baro reads were resetting the filter register to weird values on the pitot
[22:16] <Laurenceb_> which is good
[22:17] <Laurenceb_> well the fact i know what was happening is.. resetting the filter during a conversion is.. bad
[22:18] <NigeyS> hehe sounds like fun
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[22:19] <Laurenceb_> honeywell 26cp01smt connected to an ltc2481
[22:20] <Laurenceb_> not fun at all XD
[22:21] <Laurenceb_> iirc eroomde used a similar setup for the drop tests, but had instrumentation amplifier in there before an spi adc
[22:21] <Laurenceb_> i ran out of board space
[22:25] <Laurenceb_> im getting about 15 usable bits now, not bad at all XD
[22:28] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] Apex Alpha Write Up"
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[22:32] <Laurenceb_> if i work out the sensor output impedance and the sensor noise, it has a noise figure of 20dB
[22:32] <Laurenceb_> silicon stress sensors are hot XD
[22:33] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[22:34] <SpeedEvil> So can you work round it?
[22:34] <Laurenceb_> pretty much yes
[22:34] <Laurenceb_> seems like ive improved the pitot performance and output rate a lot now
[22:35] <SpeedEvil> :)
[22:35] <SpeedEvil> What's the velocity resolution?
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[22:38] <Laurenceb_> about +-0.25m/s per sample at 6.5m/s cruise
[22:38] <Laurenceb_> (slow rogallo wing)
[22:39] <Laurenceb_> 20hz samples
[22:39] <Laurenceb_> internal switched cap filter set to 9hz low pass
[22:40] <SpeedEvil> That's pretty usable.
[22:41] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[22:41] <SpeedEvil> I guess with the accels,
[22:41] <Laurenceb_> well im already doing that
[22:41] <Laurenceb_> pitot -> airspeed calculation using baro pressure and us1975 atmosphere model
[22:42] <Laurenceb_> then i use the kalman filter velocity to work out the airflow vector
[22:42] <Laurenceb_> and low pass filter that to take out the high frequency noise from the adc
[22:42] <SpeedEvil> Oh - that's .25m/s after the kalman?
[22:42] <SpeedEvil> Ah
[22:42] <Laurenceb_> and thats used for the elevator control loop - PID to set target airframe pitch
[22:43] <Laurenceb_> no before
[22:43] <Laurenceb_> raw out of the adc
[22:43] <SpeedEvil> I was assuming you were using the accels to remove the velocity noise
[22:43] <Laurenceb_> itll be a lot nicer after processing
[22:43] <SpeedEvil> (well - accels = velocity solution)
[22:43] <Laurenceb_> but i down want to low pass it to much or itll miss gusty wind
[22:43] <Laurenceb_> wind is fairly close to pink noise
[22:44] <Laurenceb_> above a Hz theres not much unless you are near the ground or trees or something
[22:44] <SpeedEvil> The accels will pick up gusts well though.
[22:44] <SpeedEvil> Ah
[22:44] <SpeedEvil> But dependant on wind vector
[22:45] <Laurenceb_> yeah i use accels for velocity only
[22:45] <Laurenceb_> the algorithm is by CorvusCorax from #openpilot
[22:45] <Laurenceb_> he has it running on a flyingwings vtrainer with openpilot board and custom firmware
[22:46] <Laurenceb_> but everyone uses annoying freescale 5v pitot pressure sensors
[22:47] <Laurenceb_> expensive weigh a ton, 5v and analogue, majorly sucky
[22:47] <SpeedEvil> I suspect most peoples definition of a ton is more usual. :)
[22:48] <Laurenceb_> my present system is 450milligrams
[23:00] <fsphil-laptop> some clips of the balloon launch on bbc just now, ad for man lab
[23:01] <Laurenceb_> yeah saw man lab last night
[23:01] <Laurenceb_> RocketBoy is in the intro titles
[23:01] <NigeyS> :o
[23:01] <fsphil-laptop> ah, missed the titles. only caught it half way though
[23:02] <Laurenceb_> the man hunt was funny
[23:02] <Laurenceb_> those south african man hunters made me lol
[23:02] <NigeyS> Oz had me in stitches
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[23:03] <Laurenceb_> we'll call this.... *long thoughtful pause* wavey
[23:04] <NigeyS> lmao yeah then they renamed them to something just as stupid!
[23:06] <Zuph> So are you UK guys allowed to use homebrew transmitters in the air?
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[23:08] <NigeyS> Zuph, the answer to that is "can of worms" ...
[23:08] <NigeyS> evening Dan
[23:09] <fsphil-laptop> or, "no" :)
[23:09] <fsphil-laptop> has to be a certified license-exempt module
[23:09] <fsphil-laptop> if you're going by the book
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[23:10] <Laurenceb_> http://webapps.nuhorizons.com/storefront/PartSearch.do?PartNumberSearch=STM32F4DISCOVERY&Manufacturer=ST&InStockOnly=FALSE&PbFreeOnly=null&ItemsPerPage=25&PageNum=1&PartNumberHolder=&Mode=initSearch&PostAction=GO&ResultsPerPage=25&NextPage=1&Commodity=ALL&CalledFromLink=YES&prevSearchType=&pSearchType=CompanyPart&referrerSite=WWW.ST.COM&referredBy=http://www.st.com/stonline/stappl/productcatalog/jsp/orderableT
[23:10] <Laurenceb_> abs.jsp?rpn=STM32F4DISCOVERY&pip=Evaluation%20Tools%2FProduct%20Evaluation%20Boards%20and%20Kits%2FEval%20Tools%20for%20MCUs%2FSTM32F4DISCOVERY&url=/stonline/stappl/st/evalboard/product/252419.jsp&referrer=
[23:10] <Laurenceb_> oops
[23:11] <Zuph> heh, sucks for you guys :-p
[23:11] <NigeyS> thats a long ass url :|
[23:11] <NigeyS> Zuph, yes!
[23:11] <fsphil-laptop> some day it may change :)
[23:11] <fsphil-laptop> (not really)
[23:11] <NigeyS> hah yeah, when hell freezes over or i win the lottery...
[23:12] <fsphil-laptop> the best chance is to talk ofcom into relaxing the restriction
[23:12] <fsphil-laptop> on amateur operation in the air
[23:12] <NigeyS> talk = bribe ?
[23:12] <fsphil-laptop> which as was said before, is less likely than getting a unicorn :)
[23:12] <Zuph> You guys'll just have to leg it over here.
[23:13] <NigeyS> fsphil that brings an interesting point up.. how the hell we gonna test long range aprs.. if we cant use it in the uk? :|
[23:13] <fsphil-laptop> up a mountain :)
[23:14] <NigeyS> thatd do it ..
[23:14] <NigeyS> we'll have to disable it completely on the test flight though ?
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[23:15] <fsphil-laptop> or just not include the module
[23:15] <NigeyS> or.. just axtivate the module on the ground after landing ?
[23:15] <NigeyS> activate*
[23:15] <fsphil-laptop> test flights often get lost, best not to waste them :)
[23:15] <fsphil-laptop> yea that's tempting
[23:16] <NigeyS> although after landing the antennas likely to be crushed right ?
[23:16] <NigeyS> wont be that much more usefule than a ntx2 if thats the case
[23:16] <fsphil-laptop> wonder if falling is considered a vehicle capable of flight :) we could track it on the way down
[23:17] <fsphil-laptop> aprs antenna should go on the top
[23:17] <NigeyS> ahh ok thatd work then
[23:17] <fsphil-laptop> unless it rolls on the ground, one should remain unharmed
[23:17] <NigeyS> yey!
[23:18] Action: NigeyS prays for no trees
[23:19] <fsphil-laptop> low trees are good :)
[23:19] <NigeyS> so are chainsaws!
[23:20] <fsphil-laptop> oooooh yes
[23:20] <NigeyS> :D
[23:21] <NigeyS> did youu get the updated sch off Upu ?
[23:23] <fsphil-laptop> got it cloned
[23:24] <NigeyS> oh cool, think its just that list i sent you, and the hx1 to add ?
[23:25] <fsphil-laptop> fancy a pressure sensor?
[23:25] <NigeyS> may as well, i got some bmp085's turning up at some point unless you had a different 1 in mind ?
[23:26] <fsphil-laptop> nah, that's the one
[23:26] <NigeyS> theyre prolly sat on some desk in custome
[23:26] <NigeyS> customs*
[23:26] <fsphil-laptop> haha
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[23:36] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Randall "Re: [UKHAS] Apex Alpha Write Up"
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[00:00] --- Fri Oct 28 2011