highaltitude.log.20111023

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[00:00] <HarrisonC> you said you were uploading. was it you
[00:00] <Zuph> Lunar_Lander: How's APRS coverage in Deutschland?
[00:00] <OZ1SKY> The path was 776km to last good beacon
[00:00] <klausf_> Lunar: sofern du möchtest, würde ich dich unterstützen... eine webseite ins netz zu stellen...
[00:00] <Randomskk> nickolai89: I'm tracking it down now
[00:00] <Randomskk> but the issue is in your times
[00:01] <Zuph> huh, evidently my irc client doesn't like umlauts.
[00:01] <nickolai89> ok, how should i format them?
[00:01] <juxta> is anybody tracking via globaltuners?
[00:01] <Randomskk> nickolai89: ideally just hh:mm:ss
[00:01] <Randomskk> if that's easy for you to change
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[00:01] <nickolai89> shouldn't be too bad, give me a few minutes
[00:01] <juxta> actually - is APEX still flying?
[00:02] <Matt_soton> indeed
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[00:02] <Matt_soton> we assume
[00:02] <Lunar_Lander> klausf_ : klingt gut
[00:02] Nick change: bob -> Guest12281
[00:03] <DG0CAW> is it possible with http://www.globaltuners.com/receiver/519/ ?
[00:03] <Matt_soton> yea if u have an account
[00:03] <juxta> that's the one I was about to try DG0CAW
[00:03] <DG0CAW> i dont have
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[00:06] <juxta> I'm tuning around listening
[00:06] <Lunar_Lander> klausf_ : darf ich fragen wo du herkommst? ich bin ja aus Osnabrück
[00:06] <Lunar_Lander> Zuph : APRS in Germany works pretty good
[00:06] <Randomskk> nickolai89: appears to be working
[00:07] <ms7821> DG0CAW: I think that's fixed frequency
[00:07] <Randomskk> nickolai89: one just broke actually
[00:07] <klausf_> Lunar_ sicher, komme auf düsseldorf, Z64,
[00:07] <Randomskk> you have a space between the 06 and the :46
[00:07] <Randomskk> okay that most recent worked
[00:07] <DG0CAW> ms7821 okay.
[00:08] <DG0CAW> just got my account at globaltuners
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[00:09] <Randomskk> nickolai89: appears to be all working
[00:10] <nickolai89> yes it does!
[00:10] <nickolai89> thanks!
[00:10] <Randomskk> no problem
[00:10] Action: Randomskk goes to bed, seeya all
[00:11] <DG0CAW> mmhh this receiver doesnt work !
[00:11] <nickolai89> HarrisonC: yea i'm uploading right now - were you asking in regards to my spacenear.us problem or my shift problem?
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[00:14] <juxta> OZ1SKY, are you still receiving?
[00:14] <mac> I though the GPS was dead
[00:15] <steve|m> mac: gps started working again, but now it's out of OZ1SKY's range
[00:19] <OZ1SKY> juxta: no i lost it here
[00:19] <juxta> OZ1SKY, what was your last dial frequency?
[00:20] <OZ1SKY> juxta: 434.640
[00:21] <OZ1SKY> juxta: LSB mode
[00:21] <DG0CAW> i am at the odenwald receiver in germany at globaltuners. and there is nothing.
[00:21] <juxta> i tried that one too DG0CAW
[00:21] <juxta> it's a bit far away though
[00:22] <DG0CAW> yes
[00:22] <juxta> shame there's nothing closer
[00:22] <juxta> OZ1SKY, how long ago did you lose it?
[00:23] <OZ1SKY> juxta: around 01:44
[00:24] <juxta> ah - what time is it now? :)
[00:24] <juxta> it's 11am here
[00:24] <Lunar_Lander> it's 2:25
[00:25] <OZ1SKY> juxta: yes sorry 01:44CET or 23:44UTC
[00:26] <DG0CAW> juxta you are the vk5 station?
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[00:26] <juxta> DG0CAW, yes, that's me
[00:26] <DG0CAW> okay. just saw you at globaltuners
[00:26] <juxta> :)
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[00:27] <OZ1SKY> the last lines i got $$ALPHA,1163,2745:555>03.95,01916.1847,36292,0l-57.94,-52.31,3.0-A7@8 $$ADPHA,116#¬23845:5203.2975<19561847,3629p, 5,-57.94(-5.31,1n60*A¸
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[00:28] <Guest53972> hey guys, nice flight you do there :) !
[00:29] <juxta> good job OZ1SKY, you got that from quite a long way away
[00:29] <juxta> what setup do you have?
[00:29] <Guest53972> whats the minimum batterie voltage you think the ballon will be able to send with?
[00:29] <OZ1SKY> juxta: lost it around 776km. i was using a comet gp-9 antenna with ssb sp-7000 preamp and a icom ic-910h
[00:30] <juxta> wow, that's pretty good!
[00:30] <juxta> how much gain does it have on 70cm?
[00:30] <juxta> I figured you must have had something directional to keep it so long
[00:30] <OZ1SKY> a ham opperator in hungary heard it shortly
[00:31] <juxta> Guest12281, I'm not sure of the payload details. if it's anything like ours then you could expect around 24 hours of battery life
[00:31] <OZ1SKY> he got a weak signal again
[00:31] <OZ1SKY> juxta: i cant realy remember
[00:31] <Matt_soton> we need to get raw data from the tracker so we can manually correct it
[00:32] <juxta> Matt_soton, the GPS blip you mean?
[00:32] <Darkside> juxta: 90ma, battery was running very low last i saw
[00:32] <NigelMoby> Omg is it still going?
[00:32] <OZ1SKY> juxta: its 11.9dbi on 70cm
[00:33] <mac> it's at -50C, the battery isn't going dead, it's just really cold
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[00:33] <Matt_soton> i mean if people can still hear it, they might be able to get some of the packet but the checksum will fail and it wont show
[00:33] <Guest53972> yeah, I tought about the temperature too.
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[00:33] <NigelMoby> Which country we in now?
[00:34] <Matt_soton> poland
[00:34] <Matt_soton> probably
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[00:35] <NigelMoby> Awsome, what a day eh
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[00:36] <klausf_> vy 73 es gd dx de klaus looking forward to hear from your next project apex
[00:37] <DG0CAW> i'm off. good night. 73 de alex
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[00:38] <radicalbiscuit> Hello and hello! What's the status? Far out of range of anyone awake, or battery dead?
[00:39] <Matt_soton> know anyone in poland?
[00:39] <radicalbiscuit> Afraid not.
[00:40] <Matt_soton> :(
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[00:43] <radicalbiscuit> an hour since contact? Probably still flying ever so high.
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[00:44] <fred2890> is there an estimation of the time left until the battery dies?
[00:44] <Matt_soton> battery probably wont be the first thing to go
[00:44] <Matt_soton> will probably burst in the morning first
[00:46] <radicalbiscuit> One of the reasons I enjoy tracking and following HAB is there's something kind of lonely about it anyhow. To listen to data encoded as audio and get a message from it (or to be unable to do so) leaves me with a feeling that there stiill is a frontier, there still are adventurers who also happen to be balloons.
[00:47] <radicalbiscuit> This one beats them all.
[00:47] <steve|m> call the kreml - isn't putin always looking for some PR-stunts? "Putin recovers weather balloon"
[00:50] <Matt_soton> need to tell the russian hams
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[00:50] <Matt_soton> not quite too sure how to go about that
[00:50] <radicalbiscuit> lol, there'd be a picture of him jumping off a high cliff being chased by bears, tigers, and peasants, barely grabbing onto the ballloon which safely carries him away.
[00:50] <radicalbiscuit> Putin, the new Balloon Boy.
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[00:56] <OZ1SKY> what a shame no one could take over
[00:56] <Lunar_Lander> LOL
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[00:57] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[00:57] Nick change: Bob -> Guest15100
[00:57] <OZ1SKY> you need to put a ads-b beacon on it next time :-)
[00:57] <Lunar_Lander> :9
[00:58] <Lunar_Lander> yeah but that is maybe forbidden in england
[00:58] <Matt_soton> never heard of that before
[00:58] <OZ1SKY> Lunar_Lander: yes i think it would be
[00:58] <OZ1SKY> Matt_soton: its a radar beacon for airplanes
[00:58] <Matt_soton> oh ok
[00:59] <Matt_soton> maybe a hf beacon would work well
[00:59] <OZ1SKY> Matt_soton: http://www.flightradar24.com
[00:59] <Matt_soton> yea seen
[00:59] <Matt_soton> that
[00:59] <Matt_soton> would be quite nice
[00:59] <Matt_soton> encoder would be alot of work
[01:00] <radicalbiscuit> HF beacon is a good way to go
[01:00] <OZ1SKY> Matt_soton: i can track there too, got a small ads-b setup here
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[01:03] <OZ1SKY> a polish guy just showed up on the other chat, will try him
[01:05] <Lunar_Lander> yay
[01:06] <OZ1SKY> no answer ;-(
[01:06] <Lunar_Lander> :(
[01:08] <radicalbiscuit> There's always the Ukranian Amateur Radio League: http://uarl.org.ua/
[01:08] <radicalbiscuit> g2g for now
[01:08] <radicalbiscuit> I'll check in later
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[01:13] <Matt_soton> o well, thanks for the help
[01:13] <Matt_soton> i think ill be off to bed now too
[01:13] <OZ1SKY> just an idea. for hamradio opperators, it would be use full if the qth locator was displayed on the webpage, translated from the lat/lon
[01:13] <OZ1SKY> Matt_soton: goodnight matt
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[01:15] <benoxley> heading off as well
[01:15] <benoxley> thanks for all your help OZ1SKY
[01:16] <Lunar_Lander> sounds good OZ1SKY
[01:16] <OZ1SKY> benoxley: your very welcome, looking forward to next time
[01:17] <benoxley> :)
[01:17] <benoxley> bye!
[01:17] <OZ1SKY> nye
[01:17] <OZ1SKY> bye
[01:18] <mac> I'm out. Thanks for all your work OZ1SKY
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[01:19] <OZ1SKY> mac: glad i could, goodnight
[01:20] <Lunar_Lander> :)
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[01:27] <nickolai89> Lunar_Lander, are you still on?
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[01:30] <Greensystemsgo> whats the word.
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[01:31] <ilukester> my question is how much longer till it is out of HAM range
[01:32] <k5egg> there are hams everywhere
[01:32] <ilukester> actually the last time it updated was about an hour ago... so that means that it has gone a drift
[01:33] <Lunar_Lander> nickolai89 : yes
[01:34] <nickolai89> so what is this project everyone is talking about?
[01:34] <nickolai89> i've seen it on the tracker - was it meant to be a floater?
[01:35] <ilukester> nope was meant to attempt to break the alititude record
[01:35] <nickolai89> i saw it's max alt was something like 36.5, pretty far up there
[01:35] <nickolai89> what's the record? 36?
[01:35] <ilukester> to bad they didnt attach any cameras to that thing... there would be some amazing photos on that thing...
[01:36] <ilukester> 130k feet
[01:36] <ilukester> so i think its about 41
[01:36] <nickolai89> i have trouble understanding why you would launch without cameras, although maybe if i've launched a lot then i wouldn't see much point in always having one...
[01:36] <Greensystemsgo> weight.
[01:36] <nickolai89> yup
[01:37] <Greensystemsgo> goal was altitude, not pictures. Would of been cool, but its was purpose built.
[01:38] <nickolai89> i eventually plan to get to a nice altitude with a rockoon, maybe like 50km or something, but that won't be for some time...
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[01:42] <OZ1SKY> Lunar_Lander: fyi 434.600-434.9875 is FM repeater downlink in Denmark,Sweden and Norway.
[01:43] <OZ1SKY> Lunar_Lander: so im lucky i dont have any repeater in my area on .650
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[01:43] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[01:50] <jcoxon> Update?
[01:50] <radicalbiscuit> Did anything becomeof the supposed Pole who logged onto some chat somewhere?
[01:53] Action: radicalbiscuit has lost sleep following this one
[01:53] <radicalbiscuit> :D
[01:57] <NigelMoby> Hey James
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[02:01] <OZ1SKY> Thanks for the fun, goodnight everyone
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[02:03] <Lunar_Lander> good night and thanks OZ1SKY
[02:03] <radicalbiscuit> goodnight you were a trooper oz1sky
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[05:01] <firespeaker> from #hamradio
[05:01] <firespeaker> (00:59:42) firespeaker: that thing's going to come down near BayqoKur and the Kazakhs are going to freak out
[05:01] <firespeaker> (01:00:48) firespeaker: how long'll the power last?
[05:03] <Darkside> the battery is likely dead by now
[05:03] <Darkside> give that it was 3 AAs
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[05:08] <firespeaker> oy
[05:08] <firespeaker> :(
[05:08] <firespeaker> it looked like it was still being heard
[05:08] Action: firespeaker wonders how long ago that way
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[05:09] <firespeaker> *was
[05:12] <Darkside> 5 hours or so
[05:12] <firespeaker> :(
[05:12] <firespeaker> I was thinking I could find some hams in Russia
[05:12] <firespeaker> but I guess it's probably of no use
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[05:33] <natrium42> Darkside: no radios in poland?
[05:34] <natrium42> it's like that joke "Why was the Polish airforce grounded? The pilot got sick."
[05:38] <firespeaker> oy
[05:39] <firespeaker> I'm trying to scare up some hams in Russia or Ukraine
[05:40] <firespeaker> I found a couple on some random russian irc server, but it looks like they're all asleep
[05:40] Action: firespeaker speaks Russian
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[05:45] <firespeaker> no one with an HF rig and a beam pointed towards moscow? :(
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[06:42] Nick change: niftylettuce -> NIFTYLETTUCE
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[06:53] <nosebleedKT> morning al
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[06:54] <costyn> nosebleedKT: hello
[06:55] <costyn> nosebleedKT: looked at your resume, looks good.
[07:02] <Dutch-Mill> morning
[07:03] <costyn> Dutch-Mill: howdy
[07:04] <Dutch-Mill> heb je al op marktplaats gekeken voor een 817 ed
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[07:04] <costyn> Dutch-Mill: you said I shouold look at Marktplaats last night; been looking, but there's not a lot of scanners/transcievers that do SSB there... only some quite expensive R7000
[07:05] <Darkside> mmmm R7000s...
[07:05] <Darkside> they are *awesome*
[07:05] <Darkside> incredibly sensitive
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[07:05] <costyn> :) I would like something smaller though... something with a higher wife-acceptance-factor
[07:05] <Dutch-Mill> You can often find there's 817
[07:06] <costyn> Dutch-Mill: HAM friend of mine said he'd sell his old 817 to me if I get my novice license
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[07:06] <Darkside> if you just want a receiver, you might be able to find an old Icom R10 scanner
[07:06] <costyn> but seeing as the next exam is in may, I'm not sure I wanna wait that long
[07:06] <Darkside> Icom IC-R10s are a nice handheld scanner that will do SSBfine
[07:06] <costyn> Darkside: cool
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[07:07] <Dutch-Mill> ..of koop een funcube http://www.hamshop.nl/index.php/cPath/115?osCsid=bb7a948dae978ab637660a2631411eb2
[07:08] <Darkside> yeeess
[07:08] <Darkside> funcube dongles are nice
[07:08] <Darkside> they aren't very sensitive though
[07:08] <nosebleedKT> costyn: im just a started. I have spent time with many IT fields but currently im not specialized in something. Im starter :)
[07:10] <Dutch-Mill> do not buy a VR500...small but less sensitive
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[07:10] <Dutch-Mill> i'm out ...bye
[07:11] <costyn> Dutch-Mill: thx, cya
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[07:12] <costyn> Darkside: yea I was looking at the funcube; if it can do what people say then it's a nice price ; but you're saying it'll dissapoint?
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[07:12] <Darkside> costyn: oh, its great fun
[07:12] <Darkside> it works fine for HAB tracking
[07:12] <Darkside> just its frontend is a bit crap
[07:12] <Darkside> so don't use it near any other powerful transmitters
[07:14] <costyn> hmm ok
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[07:21] <priyesh> 1;2c/redraw
[07:21] <priyesh> morning
[07:21] <x-f> morning
[07:21] <Darkside> hey priyesh
[07:21] <Darkside> sucks there weren't any more stations to the east
[07:22] <Darkside> would have been interesting to see how far it went
[07:22] <daveake> I guess we won't find out how far unless it gets found or it creates an international incident :p
[07:22] <costyn> yea would have been fun
[07:22] <priyesh> Darkside: indeed.
[07:23] <priyesh> if we can find a ham in east europe, i want them to try receiving it
[07:23] <priyesh> we have no idea if it's up or down and whether the battery has lasted
[07:23] <x-f> hi, Darkside, how did it go with those uBlox breakouts? are you still willing to send them over to Europe?
[07:24] <daveake> priyesh I think the battery would be OK if it was warmer. The cold drops the voltage. AA capacity is 3000mAh and doesn't drop that much with temperature.
[07:25] <costyn> sun should be heating it a bit by now
[07:25] <priyesh> yeah.. but the sun is up now
[07:25] <priyesh> only way to try to tell is get a HAM in ukraine / belaus / russia / poland
[07:25] <Darkside> x-f: you'll have to order from Upu i'm afraid
[07:25] <x-f> so far just the ROSAT has crash-landed during the last night, no similar news about Alpha in news :)
[07:25] <daveake> Yep
[07:25] <Darkside> i'm not going to be able to do much else
[07:26] <x-f> Darkside, ok, thanks
[07:26] <x-f> will Upu send then assambled and ready to go or DIY?
[07:26] <x-f> them*
[07:29] <Darkside> no idea
[07:29] <Darkside> probably DIY :P
[07:29] <costyn> x-f: he's thinking about assembling them, not sure . right now it's only breakouts
[07:29] <Darkside> they aren't easy to solder
[07:29] <Darkside> when i started assembling the breakouts i killed a few ublox chips
[07:29] <costyn> x-f: i'm also interested, but my SMD soldering skills are not up to the job I think
[07:30] <x-f> costyn, mine neither :)
[07:31] <costyn> so anybody have experience with mains level electricity? I have some LED spots on a dimmer which are flickering when dimmed. but only when I use them on a particular group
[07:32] <number10> I dont think LED spots are meant to be used on a dimmer circuit
[07:32] <costyn> number10: well they're advertised as being dimmable (even on the bulbs)
[07:33] <number10> ah well if thats the case igmore my comment
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[07:33] <costyn> :) gonna have to do more research
[07:34] <daveake> costyn What does "on a particular group" mean?
[07:34] <costyn> the webshop that sold me them has been great in helping me so far, but is stumped as to why they are still flickering
[07:35] <costyn> daveake: euh, not sure I've used the correct term, but your mains are divided into 8 or so circuit breakers rated 16 amps; in Dutch we call each 16 amp group with a fuse a 'group' :)
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[07:36] <daveake> OK, here that's a "ring" usually
[07:36] <daveake> So they only flicker on one of those? Wow
[07:37] <costyn> daveake: it seems so; I have the same spots in the kitchen, and when I move the dimmer fromthe living room to the kitchen, the leds don't flicker there when dimmed
[07:37] <daveake> Any other lighting on in the room at the time?
[07:38] <daveake> And this flickering is a rapid (i.e. mains frequency 50Hz) flickering?
[07:38] <costyn> not at the moment no... but thinking it might be interference from some other noisy device... wil try switching off stuff until it goes away
[07:38] <costyn> nope... it's very unsteady which is the unnerving thing
[07:39] <daveake> Ah, OK
[07:39] <daveake> Dimmers can make 50Hz flicker more noticeable, especially with fast-acting devices like LEDs
[07:40] <daveake> But that doesn't appear to be your problem
[07:40] <costyn> yea; and it's a "correct" reverse phase-cut dimmer too
[07:42] <daveake> All "groups" run from the same mains phase?
[07:42] <costyn> daveake: yes
[07:42] <daveake> ok. Thought so but best to check :)
[07:42] <costyn> daveake: you can call it a ring :) now that I know the correct English term
[07:42] <daveake> lol
[07:43] <daveake> Well "ring" is a bit more specific - it's where the wiring goes from the fuse/breaker box to socket 1 then 2 .... then comes back again. i.e. it's a ring.
[07:43] <daveake> You can also get ones that aren't rings :)
[07:44] <costyn> so far I've tried removing the fridge, the subwoofer and the laptop adapter; will try the wifi, router and heater later
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[07:44] <costyn> yea as far as I know most of the in house rings we have here aren't rings
[07:45] <daveake> Call them groups then :D
[07:46] <costyn> :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAJPIVUXIyE#at=50 <-- interesting effect when I had it on 12 volts
[07:47] <costyn> thought replacing it with 230v would solve it as that worked in the kitchen
[07:47] <daveake> Whoa, now that is weird!
[07:48] <daveake> It's repeating .... I think that's because the current load (quite a lot) drops the incoming voltage.
[07:48] <Upu> MORNING
[07:48] <Upu> opps
[07:48] <daveake> QUIET!
[07:48] <daveake> some of us are still asleep :)
[07:49] <costyn> daveake: i have no idea :) the LEDs and or electronic transformer shouldn't be generating more than 30watts
[07:49] <costyn> Upu: hi
[07:49] <priyesh> morning Upu
[07:50] <Upu> so nothing past OT1SKY then ? Shame
[07:50] <priyesh> no :(
[07:50] <priyesh> would be nice if an eastern european ham tried listening
[07:50] <priyesh> but it's hard to find/convince them
[07:50] <priyesh> no idea if it's still up or out of battery
[07:51] <Upu> yeah
[07:51] <daveake> costyn - stick a voltmeter on the transformer output. See if it's varying a lot in time with that cycling
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[07:51] <costyn> daveake: well the transformer is no longer in the circuit. just 230v with the dimmer. all the 12v stuff is going back to the merchant/webshop
[07:52] <costyn> daveake: but it might be interesting to see what the 230v is doing when it's dimmed; not sure my digitial multimeter will show anything tho; a scope would be useful
[07:53] <number10> also worth swapping the sets of lights over
[07:53] <daveake> Oh, so the "transformer" was 12V --> 230V, and now it's 230VAC --> dimmer --> LED packs?
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[07:54] <costyn> daveake: Before it was 230v -> dimmer -> 230/12v transformer -> LEDs ; now it's 230v -> dimmer -> LEDs
[07:54] <costyn> was using 12v LED spots before, now 230v LED spots
[07:54] <daveake> Ah, gottit
[07:55] <daveake> Try a different dimmer
[07:55] <daveake> Aside from the mains wiring it's the only common factor
[07:57] <costyn> daveake: yea true; the 230v LED spots in the kitchen are using a forward phase-cut off dimmer which is a no-no with LEDs apparently, although they work fine. problem is the reverse phase-cut off dimmers are in the order of 65 euro's, so it's not something you buy just to try
[07:57] <Upu> damn
[07:57] <Upu> I didn't get the 50 baud record
[07:57] <Upu> OT1SKY did
[07:57] <daveake> :(
[07:57] <daveake> :)
[07:57] <Upu> 775.6 km
[07:57] <costyn> Upu: yea he beat you during the night
[07:58] <costyn> and he wasn't using a yagi either
[07:58] <Upu> just... :)
[07:58] <daveake> So fsphil is down to #3 in one day/night
[07:58] <Darkside> does transmission over the internet count? >_>
[07:58] <Upu> don't think I'd have got much more with a Yagi
[07:58] <Upu> no :)
[07:58] <daveake> :)
[07:58] <Darkside> aww
[07:58] <costyn> Darkside: I thought it was an impressive stunt tho... decoding signals on the other side of the world. :)
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[07:59] <costyn> daveake: so thanks for thinking along; I'll let you know if I figure it out
[08:02] <eroomde> morning
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[08:03] <eroomde> anything after about 1am?
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[08:05] <Upu> nop
[08:05] <costyn> eroomde: nope... what's on the tracker is the last signal OZ1SKY got
[08:05] <Upu> e
[08:05] <Upu> priyesh
[08:05] <Upu> you about ?
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[08:05] <Upu> eroomde OZ1SKY broke my 50 baud record :)
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[08:05] <daveake> Upu How many minutes did you hold that for? ;)
[08:06] <Upu> not long
[08:06] <Upu> claiming the 300 one though :)
[08:06] <daveake> :)
[08:06] <fsphil-laptop> so how badly was I beaten? :)
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[08:06] <eroomde> Upu: what is the new record?
[08:06] <Upu> well OT1SKY beat me by 30 km
[08:06] <daveake> oo
[08:06] <Upu> 775.6 km
[08:06] <eroomde> nice
[08:07] <fsphil-laptop> I'm not beating that lol
[08:07] <SamSilver_> Upu: that is only a 3.86 % diff
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[08:08] <eroomde> Looks like DominoEX with FEC could be the way forward
[08:08] <eroomde> and another 2kg float attemp
[08:08] <fsphil-laptop> I still prefer rtty with fec, although it's non standard
[08:08] <eroomde> on a very windy but hot summers day
[08:09] <Upu> I still think we aren't putting enough gas in these
[08:09] <fsphil-laptop> yes
[08:09] <eroomde> so the float altitude is high, it gets to 1000km away without boring everyone to death, and the atmospheric conditions are good
[08:09] <eroomde> Upu: yes that's almost certainly the case
[08:09] <eroomde> the question though is how much more do we need?
[08:09] <Upu> well
[08:09] <eroomde> there was very very little gas in Horus 15 and that got to 40km
[08:09] <Upu> Bello had a neck lift of 4.60
[08:10] <Upu> Horus used a 1.6kg ?
[08:10] <eroomde> we need absolute pressure sensors to see what actual pressure altitude these things are floating at
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[08:10] <eroomde> as one days' 40km might be quite close to another day's 37km
[08:10] <Upu> yeah
[08:11] <fsphil-laptop> is there a nice simple pressure sensor that works at those altitudes?
[08:11] <daveake> I had one in Buzz, but it didn't get as far as floating
[08:12] <fsphil-laptop> I'd put one on a flight by default if there was
[08:12] <eroomde> fsphil-laptop: unfortunatelly, havn't really found one
[08:12] <eroomde> well, it depends a bit
[08:12] <eroomde> so, take horus 15.5
[08:12] <eroomde> the bit of oscillation in the float would have had a peak to peak pressure difference of about 10Pa
[08:12] <eroomde> and it would be quite nice to be able to observe that in the pressure data
[08:12] <eroomde> see if it correlates with the gps oscillation
[08:13] <eroomde> but that's really quite serious resolution for a mems pressure sensor
[08:13] <daveake> Indeed. I think you'd need some noise filtering
[08:13] <fsphil-laptop> is there some way we could build one?
[08:13] <fsphil-laptop> even something that doesn't work at low altitude
[08:14] <daveake> The SCP1000 I used has a resolution of 1Pa but the noise level is rather higher than that
[08:14] <fsphil-laptop> what we need is a collection of sensors and a vacuum chamber :)
[08:15] <eroomde> but we could and it'd be nice to see if that oscillation is caused but the balloon moving wthin an air mass (in which case you would see the pressure osillating) or if the entire air mass is moving (eg a gravity wave) and the balloon is fixed relative to the air but oscillating with the air, relative to the earth. in which case the pressure sensor would show flat readings
[08:15] <eroomde> we can cope to an extent with noisy sensors
[08:15] <eroomde> we can still get information out if we have gps
[08:16] <eroomde> so we can set it up as a bayesian pmodel problem and say 'what is more likely - what the gps is saying or not what the gps is saying?'
[08:16] <eroomde> but.... it would be much nicer to not have the noise :)
[08:17] <eroomde> I think the best bet for differential pressure sensors which we need too is to just use the most basic honewell ones
[08:17] <eroomde> they're just a bridge
[08:17] <fsphil-laptop> active radar -- setup an ntx2 and nrx2, with an avr programmed with a fixed delay
[08:17] <eroomde> sorry i'm monologuing here
[08:17] <eroomde> but because they're just a bridge, in theory their resolution is whatever you make of it
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[08:17] <eroomde> so if you make a really nice low noise analog front end, probably with constant current supply, and a good 24bit adc, you might get something useful out
[08:18] <fsphil-laptop> are pressure sensors sensitive to motion? the balloon bouncing around for eg.?
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[08:19] <daveake> I was thinking of repackaging my Buzz flight electronics with a bit more insulation, and 4 AA cells instead of 3 AAAs, then launch with a 1600 Hwoyee again but with a "likely to float" ascent rate.
[08:19] <eroomde> fsphil-laptop: i imagine so
[08:19] <daveake> Just to see what happens, but probably not bother chasing it
[08:19] <eroomde> fsphil-laptop: well, i doubt they would notice anything that was on a balloon
[08:19] <eroomde> but proper vibrations i'd think they would see
[08:19] <fsphil-laptop> question of filtering again I guess
[08:19] <eroomde> yeah
[08:20] <fsphil-laptop> daveake, make sure you launch on a weekend and the weather here is nice ;-)
[08:20] <fsphil-laptop> oh,and have a very good antenna ;)
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[08:20] <daveake> :D
[08:20] <costyn> daveake: well send it towards mainland europe... we have some new listeners now :)
[08:20] <daveake> It'll go wherever the wind takes it :)
[08:21] <eroomde> but yeah - some 'basic' analog pressure sensors with very very good interface and conditioning circuitry would be the way to do it, I think
[08:21] <eroomde> what we really need is one of those amazing summer days
[08:21] <daveake> I have the balloon .. would just need a short while to repackage, then zip over to Cambs to launch from there
[08:21] <eroomde> where it would ascent to 37km straight up and just stay there
[08:21] <fsphil-laptop> amazing what days?
[08:21] <daveake> lol
[08:22] <daveake> We had one in June. I remember it well.
[08:22] <eroomde> ah sorry
[08:22] <fsphil-laptop> so you think a bit of heat is needed for altitude?
[08:22] <fsphil-laptop> I guess the atmosphere is a bit thicker then
[08:22] <eroomde> i think if it's hotter, the whole atmosphere will expand radially
[08:22] <eroomde> just to average out the lower density
[08:22] <fsphil-laptop> well technically thinner
[08:22] <fsphil-laptop> but bigger
[08:22] <eroomde> and so a given floating pressure will be higher AGL
[08:23] <eroomde> i suspect there was a bit of that in Horus 15.5
[08:23] <fsphil-laptop> I guess I should aim for a float with my 1600g rather than altitude then
[08:23] <eroomde> what's your payload mass?
[08:24] <fsphil-laptop> about 120g, but with insulation probably 150g
[08:24] <eroomde> gah, we need to get to the bottom of this
[08:24] <eroomde> lots of variables, not enough data
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[08:24] <fsphil-laptop> but I have no sensors on it -- I think I might use the dave miller-time to redesign it
[08:24] <eroomde> yeah
[08:25] <daveake> mmm Miller Time ...
[08:25] <fsphil-laptop> but yea I know nothing about pressure sensors... given that there isn't anything perfect, is there a better-than-nothing sensor I could use?
[08:25] <eroomde> just having a look
[08:25] <fsphil-laptop> I'll put one in the balloon too
[08:26] <eroomde> i guess the SP1000 is been flown a few times
[08:26] <eroomde> but as daveake, probably very noisy
[08:27] <fsphil-laptop> daveake, do you have a plot from that sensor?
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[08:27] <costyn> I'm sending up a BMP085, but no idea how it'll perform
[08:27] <daveake> No, but can do.
[08:27] <Mikes> Morning
[08:27] <fsphil-laptop> morning Mikes
[08:27] <Mikes> What's the news on Alpha ?
[08:27] <daveake> eroomde - twice
[08:27] Action: fsphil-laptop rubs eyes
[08:27] <daveake> Buzz was 100g. If I lose the UFO stuff and add more proper insulation it'll go up a little. 4xAA instead of 3xAAA will add 36g, so I think the total will be 150g.
[08:27] Nick change: Mikes -> earthshine2
[08:28] <fsphil-laptop> yes I'm adding more batteries :)
[08:28] <fsphil-laptop> and a regulator right next to the gps
[08:28] <daveake> :)
[08:28] <fsphil-laptop> ooh, or some nichrome wire just to keep it warm
[08:28] <DiJuMx> any benefit of using AA/AAA batteries over li-poly/li-ion?
[08:28] <number10> doesnt the sp1000 only go down to 30kPa
[08:28] <fsphil-laptop> earthshine2, no new listeners sadly
[08:28] <daveake> Specced to -40 instead of -20
[08:29] <earthshine2> number10: It will go much lower
[08:29] <earthshine2> fsphil-laptop: :(
[08:29] <GW8RAK> Morning Phil and all. With more batteries are you thinking of in parallel or series?
[08:29] <fsphil-laptop> parallel
[08:29] <eroomde> number10: yup - we've flown them much lower
[08:29] <earthshine2> Parallel will make it last much longer
[08:29] <fsphil-laptop> series would burn too much energy through the regulator
[08:29] <eroomde> the error is quite a lot infact, according to the graphs
[08:29] <number10> how much?
[08:29] <eroomde> at those pressures and temps
[08:29] <eroomde> there's some data in the datasheet, i think you can extrapolate
[08:30] <number10> ok
[08:30] <GW8RAK> Yes, but I was just looking at a small switch mode psu which would do, without the inefficiency of a regulator
[08:30] <daveake> I tested 4xAA series with Arduino Mini Pro, running NTX2+GS407. The reg was quite warm :)
[08:30] <earthshine2> What was Alphas last know position?
[08:30] <SamSilver_> of topic but fun ... http://wimp.com/nasasatellite/
[08:30] <fsphil-laptop> hah, SCP1000 is tiny
[08:30] <RocketBoy> `The BMP085 I use in the XABEN17 & 18 flights gave resuls quite close to the NASA model for pressure all the way upto 108K ft
[08:30] <eroomde> fiddly too
[08:30] <eroomde> not meant to hot-oven it
[08:30] <mattltm> Morning all :)
[08:31] <daveake> I have it on the Sparkfun breakout
[08:31] <eroomde> so use a footprint with large pads if you are integrating it
[08:31] <earthshine2> Me too
[08:31] <fsphil-laptop> I sense a sparkfun order coming up
[08:31] <eroomde> so you can get an iron tip in
[08:31] <daveake> I don't do tiny components :p
[08:31] <eroomde> ah ok fine
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[08:31] <eroomde> that makes it easier :)
[08:31] <benoxley> morning!
[08:31] <eroomde> i put it on badger2
[08:31] <earthshine2> Morning
[08:31] <eroomde> was a faff
[08:31] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[08:31] <earthshine2> Anyone know Alphas's last known position?
[08:32] <eroomde> I beleive as per the map
[08:32] <fsphil-laptop> Sparkfun have retired it. nuts
[08:32] <daveake> If it's smaller than 0.1" (God's pitch) then it's someone else's problem :)
[08:32] <eroomde> it's a pretty godless world out there now then!
[08:32] <daveake> I know :(
[08:32] <daveake> lol
[08:32] <RocketBoy> increasingly godless
[08:32] <eroomde> Actually i've found things like SOIC and TQFP to be the wasiest things to solder
[08:32] <Upu> earthshine 52.054183,19.82842
[08:32] <fsphil-laptop> but yea thine hot gun shall save you all
[08:33] <eroomde> just because drag soldering works so nicely
[08:33] <daveake> I suppose I ought to have a go to prove that my eyesight is up to it and my hands steady enough
[08:33] <eroomde> oh - a microscope makes all the difference
[08:33] <eroomde> seriously
[08:33] <daveake> I hear you :)
[08:33] <eroomde> it turns out that hand wobble is really just about feedback
[08:33] <fsphil-laptop> sparkfun only sell the BMP085 now
[08:33] <eroomde> i can hold the iron so so much more precisely when looking through the scope
[08:34] <daveake> eroomde Interesting.
[08:34] <eroomde> sorrt of 0.2mm accuracy
[08:34] <daveake> cool
[08:34] <benoxley> eroomde: for hand-soldering SOIC / tqfp do you use wire or paste?
[08:34] <daveake> I'm feeling quite tempted now
[08:34] <fsphil-laptop> having used a microscope I agree with that
[08:34] <fsphil-laptop> it's weird
[08:34] <daveake> sod god
[08:34] <fsphil-laptop> join us daveake
[08:34] <daveake> Over on the Dark Side?
[08:34] <fsphil-laptop> the small side
[08:34] <daveake> :)
[08:34] <eroomde> there's a decent one for about 129 euros
[08:35] <eroomde> can't remember the make and model off the top of my head
[08:35] <daveake> Let me know when you remember
[08:35] <eroomde> benoxley: depends
[08:35] <eroomde> i'm happy with either
[08:35] <fsphil-laptop> I'd love a good microscope, the one at work cost ... lots :)
[08:35] <eroomde> so, if it's a nice new pcb design, like a flight computer, it's worth spending £25 on a stencil i think
[08:35] <eroomde> and using paste
[08:35] <eroomde> but for one-offs, quite happy to hand solder
[08:36] <daveake> I'm at a customer site today and a mere 2 metres away I spy .... a microscope used for PCB work :)
[08:36] <fsphil-laptop> I've seen people using paste manually with a pump, it looked very easy
[08:36] <eroomde> but someone like PCB train will do you a stainless steel laser cut solderpaste stencil for £30
[08:36] <daveake> [fx: carries something off to back of car] lol
[08:36] <eroomde> which is a bargain - it'll save you hours
[08:36] <eroomde> and give nice results
[08:37] <benoxley> I'm finding it quite good to paste+place then heat up the tracks with a fine nib soldering iron
[08:37] <benoxley> worked for me down to soic
[08:37] <eroomde> yeah that works well too
[08:37] <fsphil-laptop> eroomde, do you use a proper oven to flow it?
[08:37] <eroomde> it's so flux heavy that it flows well
[08:37] <daveake> Sounds good. They're just down the road from me and I use them for PCB blanks. A friend works there too.
[08:37] <eroomde> fsphil-laptop: £19.99 from argos
[08:37] <eroomde> IR toaster oven
[08:37] <fsphil-laptop> haha
[08:37] <eroomde> that did everything for the ESA project
[08:37] <fsphil-laptop> lemme have a look
[08:38] <fsphil-laptop> aarh, why to argos use flash just to show a picture
[08:38] <fsphil-laptop> do*
[08:38] <eroomde> the other rnadom tip for the day is that some amount of current limiting is a really nice idea for pyros
[08:40] <eroomde> so for the firing box i just did for the full size vehicle, that's a full-on constant current 5A circuit and static electricity management bits and bobs and so on, to delivery a very precise amount of energy as a square wave. but that's a bit silly. but certainly a 1 ohm resistor in series with a pyro really helps. stops the pyro wires being blown apart too quickly
[08:40] <fsphil-laptop> I've seen that happen
[08:41] <eroomde> you can actually make very good constant current supplies with something like an lm338 regulator
[08:41] <daveake> I'm so glad that I used a nichrome cutdown on Buzz instead of a pyro ...
[08:41] <eroomde> you make the 'adjust' pin feed off a voltage drop across a small shut resistor in series with the load
[08:41] <fsphil-laptop> BMP085 ... "offers a measuring range of 300 to 1100 hPa with an absolute accuracy of down to 0.03 hPa"
[08:41] <eroomde> shunt*
[08:41] <daveake> .... it made it much less of a surprise when it triggered in the back of the car when we were having lunch after the chase :)
[08:42] <fsphil-laptop> haha
[08:42] <eroomde> daveake: lol
[08:42] <eroomde> we do need a nice inline cutdown device
[08:42] <daveake> Buzz did reboot which does show that the AAAx3 idea was a bit marginal
[08:42] <fsphil-laptop> did you loop the wire around the cord?
[08:42] <eroomde> maybe something you could sew onto the apex of a chute
[08:43] <daveake> Twisted round the cord, and the assembly covered in glass fibre flexible sleeving
[08:43] <eroomde> except you don't really want to ditch all the nice instrumentation in the balloon neck
[08:43] <eroomde> daveake: I *hate* that stuff
[08:43] <eroomde> that sleeving
[08:43] <daveake> yep
[08:43] <eroomde> gives me nasty finger rashes for days afterwards
[08:43] <fsphil-laptop> I suppose it would be better to have a cut-down that bursts the balloon in that case
[08:43] <daveake> oh, I was ok
[08:43] <fsphil-laptop> have a big enough parachute for both the payload and balloon remains
[08:43] <eroomde> i had to use it on a job a few years ago for wires in a high temp environment
[08:43] <eroomde> it was just pummelling my fingers with little bits of glass
[08:44] <daveake> :(
[08:44] <fsphil-laptop> euu
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[08:44] <eroomde> yeah the parachute situation is annoying
[08:44] <eroomde> it'd be really much nicer to deploy a parachute (yes me and my parachute deployment, i know) but the inline thing has such enormous advantages we can't really move away from it
[08:45] <fsphil-laptop> yea
[08:45] <eroomde> but if you start having a balloon neck flight computer, it'd going to start getting heavier
[08:45] <eroomde> and more likely to foul an inline chute
[08:46] <eroomde> one solution is a 'deployed' chute upside down at the bottom of the train
[08:46] <eroomde> so it drags on the way up
[08:46] <eroomde> but the entire train inverts on burst
[08:46] <daveake> I thought about that ....
[08:47] <eroomde> but that would increase drift i guess as it'd ascend more slowly
[08:47] <daveake> .... yes, GPS and antenna now upside down
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[08:47] <eroomde> and radio
[08:47] <eroomde> ah sorry you said that
[08:47] <daveake> I meant radio antenna
[08:47] <eroomde> yeah
[08:47] <daveake> :)
[08:47] <eroomde> so, hrm
[08:47] <eroomde> i think we need a parachute mortar in the balloon neck
[08:47] <daveake> Self-righting payload :)
[08:47] <xaron> hi all, what is the status of alpha? no new trackers since 1:30 CET?
[08:47] <eroomde> so we can deploy a chute through the balloon
[08:48] <eroomde> xaron: it went out of range of all trackers
[08:48] <eroomde> it was saluted
[08:48] <eroomde> and people went to bed
[08:48] <xaron> eroomde: pitty :(
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[08:49] <fsphil-laptop> it's probably down now
[08:49] <fsphil-laptop> causing a storm in some village somewhere :)
[08:49] <Hiena> 'morning!
[08:49] <Hiena> What is the Apex Alpha status?
[08:49] <fsphil-laptop> morning Hiena
[08:49] <fsphil-laptop> out of range of all stations
[08:50] <fsphil-laptop> batteries are probably dead now too
[08:50] <eroomde> daveake: so remind me - where abouts do you live?
[08:51] <daveake> Between Newbury and Wantage
[08:51] <Hiena> Yesterday evening tried to get some HAM friends online helping the tracking, but the most is 10 or 80 meter operator, or just simply plastered due the weekend.
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[08:52] <eroomde> yeah
[08:52] <eroomde> you know, it would be cheeky
[08:52] <eroomde> but flying a 10m beacon onboard would be seriously sensible
[08:52] <eroomde> maybe just doing HellShreiber or something funky
[08:52] <fsphil-laptop> there is a license-exempt range in HF
[08:52] <eroomde> aparently people were doing transatlantic on 10m 'with a wet noodle' yesterday
[08:52] <fsphil-laptop> 10mw though
[08:52] <eroomde> 13.5MHz or something right?
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[08:53] <Darkside> thats nor 10m
[08:53] <Darkside> not*
[08:53] <daveake> What sort of weight are those things?
[08:53] <fsphil-laptop> there's one near 26mhz I think
[08:53] <Darkside> 28MHz is 10m
[08:53] <fsphil-laptop> but nobody sells a module for it
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[08:53] <oh2lak> Balloon still up?
[08:53] <Darkside> probably not
[08:53] <daveake> Who knows :)
[08:53] <eroomde> daveake: not sure
[08:54] <fsphil-laptop> oh2lak, we don't know but probably not :) our theory is that it would have burst at sunrise
[08:54] <Hiena> fsphil-laptop: even a 3rd grade highscooler could build a working 500mW 10 meter transmitter.
[08:54] <eroomde> you could make an HF beacon quite small i think
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[08:54] <eroomde> especially if you did something on-off keyed like hellschriber
[08:54] Nick change: GW8RAK_ -> GW8RAK
[08:54] <eroomde> it'd be a class A amplifier so very very efficient
[08:54] <fsphil-laptop> Hiena, indeed. the license-free one could work on the UK though :)
[08:54] <Darkside> Class E you mean
[08:54] <eroomde> and very compact
[08:54] <eroomde> sorry thanks Darkside
[08:54] <fsphil-laptop> in*
[08:54] <eroomde> one of the vowels
[08:54] <Darkside> and it wouldn't be that small
[08:55] <Darkside> you'd need space for the inductors and things
[08:55] <Darkside> i've been meaning to make a small HF transmitter, haven't gotten around to it yet though
[08:55] <fsphil-laptop> aprs would be another option -- 144.8 modules from radiometrix are cheap
[08:55] <fsphil-laptop> though coverage in eastern europe is thin
[08:56] <eroomde> i don't think it'd be massice tho darkside
[08:56] <Darkside> eroomde: oh, it's be small
[08:56] <Darkside> of course
[08:56] <fsphil-laptop> I need to get my full license
[08:56] <eroomde> you could probably fit it on a small pcb
[08:56] <Hiena> I built several two or three transistor 27MHz RC transmitter, even one which was built, tuned and flown within 4 hours.
[08:56] <eroomde> like 5cm x 2.5cm
[08:56] <eroomde> maybe
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[08:56] <eroomde> what i mean is you wouldn't have a big thing with a big heat sink
[08:57] <GW8RAK> I've tried a number of things from this page http://www.gw1tdv.co.cc/
[08:57] <eroomde> fsphil-laptop: yes you do!
[08:57] <GW8RAK> They all worked rather well
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[08:57] <Darkside> eroomde: yeah of course
[08:58] <eroomde> and it's be dirt cheap
[08:58] <HarrisonC> so was the signal lost
[08:58] <eroomde> it'd*
[08:58] <Darkside> somewhat
[08:58] <Darkside> eroomde: i'm working on a frequency agile HF transmitter
[08:58] <Darkside> using the old AD9835 design as the signal generator
[08:58] <fsphil-laptop> HarrisonC, yep
[08:59] <Darkside> or an AD9834
[08:59] <eroomde> they're quite power thirsty though, those DDSs
[08:59] <eroomde> i think they're propper sexy
[08:59] <Darkside> eroomde: not too bad
[08:59] <eroomde> but, power thirsty
[08:59] <Darkside> eroomde: the AD9834 is ok
[08:59] <eroomde> although i guess small bananas on a 1W Tx
[08:59] <Darkside> yeah, that was the trick
[09:00] <eroomde> when i looked at it for generating 434MHz 10mW it made no sense whatsoever :)
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[09:00] <Darkside> eroomde: heh
[09:00] <Darkside> eroomde: well, i've got a working 2W transmitter, in pieces
[09:00] <priyesh> Upu: you pinged
[09:00] <priyesh> ?
[09:00] <eroomde> daveake: we should have a pie and pint at some point as i think we're relatively local
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[09:01] <daveake> Sounds like a plan to me
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[09:02] <Rob_M0DTS> morning all.. what was the result last night? lack of tracker or battery ran out?
[09:02] <priyesh> Rob_M0DTS: lack of trackers
[09:02] <Rob_M0DTS> oh, a shame but it had a good run!
[09:02] <fsphil-laptop> pie? mmmm
[09:03] <priyesh> yeah
[09:03] <eroomde> 26.957 -
[09:03] <eroomde> 27.283
[09:03] <eroomde> MHz
[09:03] <fsphil-laptop> as long as it doesn't have onions ;)
[09:03] <priyesh> really want to know where it ends up
[09:03] <eroomde> sorry bad copy paste
[09:03] <eroomde> we can use that airborne at 10mW
[09:03] <daveake> eroomde: Also I'll probably launch from Cambs next time, so if you fancy a run over there to help out I can pick you up
[09:03] <eroomde> could be good yep
[09:03] <eroomde> from churchill?
[09:04] <daveake> I don't mind which site :)
[09:04] <Rob_M0DTS> 27MHz is not good for weak sigs, very noisy with EU stations now activity has picked up.
[09:04] <Hiena> Yup.
[09:04] <eroomde> daveake: I'd go for churchill. I like it there
[09:04] <daveake> cool
[09:05] <eroomde> and if you take me, you won't need anyone else from cusf about
[09:05] <daveake> And if I'm aiming for a float or a long flight, it's got less distance to travel till it's over Europe :)
[09:05] <daveake> :)
[09:05] <eroomde> in terms of finding gaps in lecture schedules :)
[09:06] <fsphil-laptop> actually for a float its better to launch where I am ;)
[09:06] <fsphil-laptop> more listeners for longer
[09:06] <eroomde> true that
[09:06] <daveake> True!
[09:06] <HarrisonC> so no good looking at global tuners then
[09:06] <daveake> I could post the payload etc to you :)
[09:06] <Darkside> HarrisonC: we were using them
[09:06] <Darkside> but there were none in the area
[09:06] <daveake> But ....... when do you gett he notam? ;)
[09:07] <fsphil-laptop> stop pointing out flaws in my plan :p
[09:07] <fsphil-laptop> I must just email Mr.DM
[09:07] <fsphil-laptop> I don't want to launch with snow on the ground again
[09:08] <Hiena> If i would like to do some fancy, easy to track stuff i would vote for 2200 meter of 180 meter bands. Both is almost empty and possible to do insane long range contacts with a cheap equipments.
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[09:09] <fsphil-laptop> the big risk of launching from here is: http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=a34a9cd4b9c77bd1daaba82aa2f91a02ca6b99d7
[09:09] <eroomde> you'd have to give the entire ukhas comminity a chance to build equipment :)
[09:09] <eroomde> fsphil-laptop: ouch. nuclear subs?
[09:10] <fsphil-laptop> well, that and fishermen
[09:10] <fsphil-laptop> next week is worse: http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=93311bc3f945f76dea73bff051f3aeacee79826b
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[09:11] <HarrisonC> on the radios on global tuner do you set them to 434.640 USB
[09:11] <fsphil-laptop> yea
[09:11] <fsphil-laptop> but always tune up or down a bit, the signal will drift considerably throughout a flight
[09:12] <daveake> For Buzz, "considerably" is far too small a word ...
[09:12] <Hiena> The only problem with a very long antenna. I flown successfully a 150 meter relay wire as antenna with a party balloon. It worked pretty well on 180 meter.
[09:13] <priyesh> Upu: will be back later
[09:13] <HarrisonC> http://www.globaltuners.com/receiver/classic.php?receiver=269 lots of interference. is it close to radian in italy
[09:14] <HarrisonC> radion
[09:14] <HarrisonC> radio
[09:14] <fsphil-laptop> HarrisonC, the balloon will be well into eastern europe by now, if not russia
[09:15] <fsphil-laptop> it would be amazing if someone found it
[09:15] <HarrisonC> just thought as the flight path slowed for a bit then cut off
[09:15] <HarrisonC> do you have a reward notice
[09:15] <fsphil-laptop> not sure what they wrote on the front, priyesh?
[09:17] <fsphil-laptop> ooh, sunday http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=91fc9b30c5ba12855371d15e8bcd94b5fa567938
[09:18] <fsphil-laptop> right, food
[09:18] <daveake> onions?
[09:19] <daveake> Coq au vin for me later. Lots of onions .... ;)
[09:19] <fsphil-laptop> Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
[09:19] Action: fsphil-laptop runs away
[09:19] <daveake> :D
[09:20] <fsphil-laptop> onions and sprouts. never has the earth seen such evil
[09:20] <daveake> Ah, sprouts I can agree on!
[09:20] <fsphil-laptop> vile!
[09:20] <daveake> They have no purpose other than for parents to inflict pain and suffering on their offspring
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[09:22] <daveake> They do it if they want their kids to grow up to be PIC assembler programmers
[09:22] <priyesh> fsphil-laptop: HarrisonC: there was a reward notice with contact details on the front
[09:23] <daveake> But possibly not in enough languages :p
[09:23] <HarrisonC> only hope is that it hits america
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[09:23] <priyesh> daveake: we had to pick languages wisely
[09:23] <priyesh> i think french was a bad choice
[09:24] <priyesh> should have gone for russian or polish instead
[09:24] <daveake> :D
[09:24] <priyesh> but we had no idea
[09:24] <daveake> Nope
[09:25] <daveake> Cloud2 I only used English, but I expected that to land in Suffolk!
[09:25] <daveake> And I used short words in case it landed in Norfolk ;)
[09:25] <priyesh> ):
[09:25] <priyesh> :)
[09:27] <daveake> The label was printed on a thermal printer, and not laminated. I tested one afterwards in salt water and it faded but was still readable after 2 weeks. Not sure how well it will have survived by now especially if it rubs against anything
[09:27] <x-f> most people know English, and if they don't i guess their curiosity will drive them to find someone who knows - a neighbor or friend
[09:27] <daveake> Still, might turn up in Norway sometime
[09:27] <daveake> Yes
[09:28] <HarrisonC> look at tracker.new ballon spacenear.us/tracker
[09:29] <priyesh> ?
[09:29] <priyesh> HarrisonC: i don't understand?
[09:29] <HarrisonC> on spacenear.us/tracker there is a new ballon called PRHAL in the US. Take a look
[09:30] <priyesh> oh
[09:30] <priyesh> it's just someone testing
[09:30] <HarrisonC> so who operates space near.us
[09:31] <priyesh> ukhas
[09:31] <HarrisonC> oh ok
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[09:38] <radicalbiscuit> My bets are on the Ukraine. I have visions of it landing in a bowl of cabbage soup.
[09:38] <jonsowman> lol
[09:43] <Hiena> Drat, and double drat. Hafta redesign my parralell<->I2C interface board.
[09:43] <fsphil-laptop> PRHAL is launching today
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[09:44] <priyesh> biab
[09:44] <number10> if it lands in russia they probably already know where you live - watch out for people carrying umarellas
[09:44] <fsphil-laptop> gdb is brilliant
[09:45] <eroomde> random
[09:45] <fsphil-laptop> just found where habhound is crashing :)
[09:45] <daveake> :)
[09:46] <fsphil-laptop> mutli-threading can be a royal pain sometimes
[09:47] <eroomde> i need to get it setup for arm dev
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[09:48] <Darkside> oh yeah fsphil-laptop
[09:48] <Darkside> i'm thinking of modding one of my old mininut boards
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[09:48] <Darkside> replacing the gps with a camera
[09:48] <Darkside> and doing continious 600 baud SSDV
[09:49] <radicalbiscuit> lol
[09:49] <radicalbiscuit> that would be fantastic
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[09:51] <fsphil-laptop> that would be
[09:51] <fsphil-laptop> at those speeds it gets close to sstv times
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[09:51] <fsphil-laptop> only better looking
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[09:52] <Darkside> fsphil-laptop: i'd do 640x480
[09:52] <fsphil-laptop> continuous .. are you doing the telemetry on another radio? ooh a second payload
[09:52] <fsphil-laptop> ah ha
[09:52] <fsphil-laptop> now that would be nifty
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[09:53] <fsphil-laptop> I got one of the boards you made for Nigel, I'm going to try ssdv on that. not sure if the chip has the memory though
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[09:54] <fsphil-laptop> that and hellscheiber
[09:54] <fsphil-laptop> (sp?)
[09:54] <Darkside> fsphil-laptop: what does it need?
[09:55] <Darkside> is just SSDV doable on an atmega328p?
[09:55] <Darkside> 4k of ram
[09:56] <fsphil-laptop> not a huge amount, it's mostly progmem it uses
[09:56] <Darkside> ok
[09:56] <Darkside> well its for 32k of flash
[09:56] <fsphil-laptop> that's plenty
[09:56] <Darkside> how does the clock speed make much of a difference?
[09:56] <Darkside> my boards are all 8MHz
[09:56] <fsphil-laptop> not sure how much ram it uses though
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[09:57] <fsphil-laptop> it shouldn't make any difference, I use 7.3728mhz
[09:57] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[09:57] <fsphil-laptop> the camera can be fussy perhaps at higher baud rates if it's not well timed
[09:57] <fsphil-laptop> but it should run fine at 14.4k
[09:57] <fsphil-laptop> morning Lunar_Lander
[09:58] <Lunar_Lander> how is life?
[09:58] <fsphil-laptop> the 7.3728mhz crystal was still happy doing everything at 2400 baud
[09:58] <Darkside> fsphil-laptop: i'd be using a proper hardware serial
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[09:58] <fsphil-laptop> spiffy Lunar_Lander :) you?
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[09:59] <Darkside> fsphil-laptop: so its teh camera you linked to me last night/
[09:59] <Darkside> and what non-web-based decoding software is there?
[09:59] <Darkside> i.e. something we could run in teh car
[09:59] <fsphil-laptop> dl-fldigi has a decoder built in
[09:59] <Lunar_Lander> I'm good, thanks
[09:59] <Darkside> oh, so it shows the images in dl-fldigi?
[09:59] <fsphil-laptop> yea
[09:59] <Darkside> oh cool
[09:59] <Darkside> :-)
[10:00] <fsphil-laptop> but only shows what you receive
[10:00] <Darkside> yeah thats ok
[10:00] <Darkside> well, i might get one of these cameras and have a play around
[10:00] <Darkside> might have to hack your code up a bit
[10:00] <fsphil-laptop> one note, the current version has a slightly older decoder :) I changed the format a bit
[10:00] <Darkside> i'd be doing 600 baud on 2m
[10:00] <Darkside> at 100mW
[10:00] <fsphil-laptop> oh that'll work really well
[10:00] <fsphil-laptop> considering all the tests so far have been 10mw and those worked well
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[10:01] <Lunar_Lander> are the apex people here?
[10:01] <Darkside> fsphil-laptop: i was considering sending it via APRS
[10:01] <Lunar_Lander> priyesh, jonsowman
[10:01] <Darkside> fsphil-laptop: whats the packet size for SSDV?
[10:01] <fsphil-laptop> Darkside, I've had that thought too :) I just bought some 144.8mhz modules for it
[10:01] <jonsowman> hi Lunar_Lander
[10:01] <fsphil-laptop> 256 bytes with FEC, -32 bytes without it
[10:01] <Lunar_Lander> you made an amazing flight
[10:01] <Darkside> ooh ok
[10:02] <Darkside> fsphil-laptop: how many packets to make a full image?
[10:02] <Lunar_Lander> jonsowman : I think this could be considered the first trans-european HAB flight
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[10:02] <fsphil-laptop> 224 bytes without it then :)
[10:02] Action: fsphil-laptop is slow today
[10:02] <jonsowman> Lunar_Lander: thanks! i wasn't really that involved, I only helped launch
[10:02] <fsphil-laptop> Darkside, depends on the size of the image. my flights with 320x240 images it was about 30/40 packets
[10:02] <jonsowman> priyesh, danielsaul and others are the ones that built it :)
[10:02] <Darkside> ok
[10:02] <fsphil-laptop> the less detailed images where 10 packets
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[10:02] <Darkside> oh yes, jpeg
[10:02] <Darkside> :-)
[10:03] <fsphil-laptop> indeedy
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[10:03] <Darkside> so 4x that much for a 640x480 image
[10:03] <fsphil-laptop> I've done single-packet images for testing
[10:03] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[10:03] <Lunar_Lander> are priyesh and danielsaul here?
[10:03] <fsphil-laptop> like, 32x16 with just text
[10:03] <Lunar_Lander> hi M0WOJ-Alex
[10:04] <M0WOJ-Alex> hi
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[10:04] <Darkside> so thats 2.84 minutes for a 320x240 image at 600 baud
[10:04] <fsphil-laptop> sounds about right
[10:04] <Darkside> so does it store the entire image into the MCUs ram before transmit?
[10:05] <fsphil-laptop> it streams it from the camera
[10:05] <Darkside> or does it pull it out of the ttl camera part by part
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[10:05] <Darkside> oh so you can request bits of the image at a time
[10:05] <fsphil-laptop> yea
[10:05] <Darkside> cool
[10:05] <fsphil-laptop> although it sometimes goes to sleep if you wait too long
[10:05] <fsphil-laptop> I think I have code in there to ping it
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[10:06] <fsphil-laptop> the biggest ram user is the packet itself
[10:06] <fsphil-laptop> 256 bytes
[10:06] <fsphil-laptop> and whatever block size you're reading from the jpeg camera
[10:06] <fsphil-laptop> but that can be varied
[10:07] <fsphil-laptop> I think I went overboard with the buffering in my code
[10:07] <fsphil-laptop> 256 bytes
[10:08] <fsphil-laptop> not too bad
[10:08] <Darkside> mm
[10:08] <Darkside> ok
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[10:08] <Darkside> well, i might order a camera and try it out
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[10:08] <fsphil-laptop> it can be like 32 bytes or something silly
[10:09] <fsphil-laptop> so what's considered too much data for aprs? would it be feasible to transmit the packets through that?
[10:09] <Darkside> its doable
[10:09] <Darkside> you might upset the network operators
[10:09] <Darkside> :P
[10:09] <fsphil-laptop> meh
[10:09] <fsphil-laptop> it's there to be used ;)
[10:10] <Darkside> heh
[10:10] <fsphil-laptop> you'd need some way to include the callsign in the data
[10:10] <Darkside> well, if i can get the raw SSDV data to be sent, i could be able to wrap it in the frame
[10:10] <Darkside> nah
[10:10] <Darkside> AX25 has that already
[10:10] <fsphil-laptop> ah, handy
[10:10] <Darkside> its more routing and stuff
[10:11] <Darkside> i.e. hwo far do you want the packets to go
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[10:11] <Darkside> oh yeah
[10:11] <Darkside> fsphil-laptop: can you do things like send 3 320x240 images thsen 1 640x480 image?
[10:11] <fsphil-laptop> yea
[10:12] <fsphil-laptop> the camera can switch easy, and the encoder will just use whatever the image is
[10:12] <Darkside> cool
[10:13] <Darkside> i think i might try doing 320x240 images at 600 baud, then a 640x480 image at 1200 baud
[10:13] <Darkside> or something like that
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[10:13] <fsphil-laptop> that's similar to what tim tried
[10:13] <Darkside> i'll be using 10 times the output power :P
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[10:14] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[10:14] <fsphil-laptop> also a better camera
[10:14] <Darkside> eh?
[10:15] <Darkside> isnt the camera you linked the one tim used?
[10:15] <fsphil-laptop> he flew a logitech usb webcam
[10:15] <Darkside> oh?
[10:15] <fsphil-laptop> it just couldn't handle the contrast
[10:15] <Darkside> ahh
[10:15] <fsphil-laptop> the earth was overexposed on every image
[10:15] <Darkside> so you use the camera you linked to me?
[10:15] <fsphil-laptop> yea
[10:15] <Darkside> cool
[10:15] <Darkside> 90 or 120 degree lens?
[10:16] <fsphil-laptop> I think it's 90,.. it's pretty wide but not as much as the gopro
[10:16] <fsphil-laptop> it can be replaced
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[10:16] <fsphil-laptop> it uses the normal board-camera lens size
[10:16] <Darkside> ok
[10:17] <priyesh> back
[10:17] <priyesh> Lunar_Lander: hello
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[10:21] <Lunar_Lander> hello priyesh
[10:21] <priyesh> heloo
[10:21] <priyesh> *hello
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[10:25] <Lunar_Lander> priyesh : you probably made the first trans-european HAB!
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[10:27] <priyesh> thanks for helping to track it when we lost it in the UK!
[10:28] <fsphil-laptop> aaarg, it's a heisenbug - it crashes until you put fprintf() in to find it, then it works
[10:28] <SpeedEvil> It wasn't picked up again after around midnight?
[10:28] <priyesh> last packet was at 12:41 BST
[10:29] <priyesh> it was still transmitting, but we had no one in range
[10:32] <priyesh> did alpha beat the distance record?
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[10:32] <fsphil-laptop> I think so
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[10:33] <fsphil-laptop> well, latex distance record
[10:33] <Darkside> oh?
[10:33] <Darkside> how far did it go?
[10:33] <priyesh> fsphil-laptop: are we measuring the path or direct distance?
[10:33] <fsphil-laptop> probably direct distance ... the last message didn't say
[10:33] <Darkside> whats the great-cirgle distance?
[10:33] <Darkside> circle*
[10:34] <fsphil-laptop> hmm.. I don't have logging enabled in xchat
[10:34] <Darkside> ill work out great-circle
[10:34] <Darkside> hold on
[10:35] <Darkside> holy crap
[10:35] <Darkside> great-circle from cambridge to last known point was 1346km
[10:35] <NigelMoby> http://on.tuu.fi/tesmaus/alpha.php
[10:35] <Darkside> or that
[10:35] <fsphil-laptop> that's what I was lookin gfor
[10:35] <priyesh> what's the record
[10:35] <priyesh> ?
[10:35] <fsphil-laptop> thanks NigelMoby
[10:36] <Darkside> priyesh: the record is set by zero pressure balloons
[10:36] <priyesh> record for a latex ballon
[10:36] <priyesh> *balloon
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[10:36] <NigelMoby> 1200?
[10:36] <Darkside> 1411 miles
[10:36] <fsphil-laptop> some balloons have gone around the planet a few times :)
[10:36] <Darkside> WB8ELK's balloons have done ridiculous distances
[10:36] Nick change: clueless -> Guest56899
[10:36] <priyesh> so no latex balloon record?
[10:36] <Darkside> yes
[10:37] <Darkside> thats the WB8ELK one
[10:37] <priyesh> ok
[10:37] <Darkside> which is 2370km
[10:37] <priyesh> wow
[10:37] <fsphil-laptop> wow indeed
[10:37] <Darkside> HiBall-6
[10:37] <fsphil-laptop> that's the one that ditched in the atlantic isn't it?
[10:37] <Darkside> dunno
[10:37] <priyesh> http://ukhas.org.uk/general:uk_records we got the duration and float duration records acording to this.. not sure if it's been updated
[10:37] <fsphil-laptop> uk record certainly
[10:37] <priyesh> yeah
[10:37] <Darkside> yeah, definitely UK
[10:38] <fsphil-laptop> by a long way lol
[10:38] <priyesh> just want to make sure we don't make up stuff in our write ups
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[10:38] <priyesh> was WB8ELK's distance record a UK one?
[10:38] <priyesh> if not, what is the UK record?
[10:38] <fsphil-laptop> the annoying thing is that it *might* have gone a lot lot longer
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[10:38] <eroomde> no and not sure
[10:39] <eroomde> i think the uk one probably isn't much more than 500km
[10:39] <fsphil-laptop> hadie:2 got about 250km
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[10:39] <priyesh> so we got that by far :)
[10:39] <fsphil-laptop> easily yea
[10:39] <priyesh> really annoying that we couldn't track it
[10:39] <Darkside> mm
[10:39] <priyesh> /may/ have gone on for a little longer
[10:39] <Darkside> we were lucky with Horus 16, A) it moved slowly
[10:40] <Darkside> and B) we had heaps of trackers all over australia we could call on
[10:40] <fsphil-laptop> likely I think priyesh
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[10:40] <priyesh> could someone explain great circle distance and is this the great circle distance on here: http://on.tuu.fi/tesmaus/alpha.php
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[10:41] <Darkside> priyesh: great circle is point-to-point distance on a globe
[10:41] <priyesh> including curvature of the earth?
[10:41] <Darkside> yes
[10:41] <priyesh> ah. i see
[10:41] <Darkside> i just get it using google earth
[10:41] <priyesh> do we know if http://on.tuu.fi/tesmaus/alpha.php is great circle?
[10:41] <priyesh> it seems like it is
[10:41] <Darkside> because it matched what i got on google earth
[10:41] <priyesh> cool
[10:41] <Darkside> within a fe wkm anyway
[10:41] <Darkside> few*
[10:42] <Darkside> anyway, your balloon would have floated at least until sunrise
[10:42] <Darkside> possibly a little longer
[10:42] <priyesh> i'd agree with that too
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[10:43] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[10:43] <Lunar_Lander> it's cooler to calculate greatr circlke manually
[10:43] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[10:43] <Lunar_Lander> *great circle
[10:43] <priyesh> yes
[10:43] <priyesh> google earth is cheating!
[10:43] <priyesh> :P
[10:43] <Darkside> meh
[10:43] <Darkside> if it does th ejob
[10:44] <Lunar_Lander> XD
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[10:44] <Lunar_Lander> what is the symbol for the great circle angle?
[10:44] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[10:47] <DiJuMx> What was the average speed of Alpha while it was over germany/poland?
[10:47] <NigelMoby> Bout 29m/s
[10:48] <Lunar_Lander> DiJuMx : are you from GER?
[10:48] <NigelMoby> According to that Php page that was made
[10:48] <DiJuMx> UK
[10:48] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[10:50] <Lunar_Lander> OK, the great circle angle is
[10:50] <Lunar_Lander> Zeta
[10:50] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[10:50] <NigelMoby> I think the time that u launched really helped the float duration priyesh
[10:50] <DiJuMx> okay, bit of quick math, assuming alpha remained at about 29m/s average speed, means it could have travelled another 1160km by now
[10:51] <Darkside> it would have burst after sunrise, most likely
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[10:53] <DiJuMx> In the best case (where it remains afloat), it could have reached the outskirts of Moscow.....or the black sea depending on the direction
[10:54] <NigelMoby> Darkside, 300g @ 8 m/s .. estimated impact force?
[10:54] <Darkside> dunno
[10:54] <NigelMoby> Moscow... Russians would've shot it down
[10:54] <Darkside> its a foam box, it won't land very hard
[10:54] <eroomde> it's at 120,000ft
[10:55] <eroomde> but not doing mach 3
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[10:55] <eroomde> hrm
[10:55] <eroomde> i think they probs couldn't get to it with a non-redic missile
[10:55] <eroomde> ridic*
[10:55] <NigelMoby> Hmm good point
[10:56] <eroomde> no aerodynamic contro, for the final 20,000ft
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[10:56] <eroomde> i have fiinally got my tower up in my new house and have a proper ibm modem m keyboard. so much nicer than crouching over a wee laptop
[10:57] <eroomde> although typing accuracy has gone out the window
[10:57] <NigelMoby> Lol
[10:57] <priyesh> what's the best way to keep the current map on spacenearus
[10:58] <Darkside> screenshot..
[10:58] <priyesh> (other than a screenshot :P)
[10:58] <x-f> JSON
[10:58] <priyesh> a download json + viewer would be cool
[10:59] <x-f> priyesh, export it to google earth
[10:59] <Lunar_Lander> NigelMoby : 9.6 J of kinetic energy
[10:59] <priyesh> x-f: 'Track in Google Earth'?
[10:59] <x-f> yup
[10:59] <Darkside> i've got scripts to pull down the JSON data and convert it to a csv
[10:59] <NigelMoby> Oh, tnx kev
[10:59] <Darkside> you can then probably convert that to a kml or something
[10:59] <priyesh> does that not just link to http://spacenear.us/tracker/data.php?format=kml
[11:00] <priyesh> i'll just download the kml
[11:00] <Darkside> yeah its just a network link kml iirc
[11:00] <Lunar_Lander> you're welcome
[11:00] <priyesh> it is Darkside
[11:01] <DanielRichman> priyesh: habitat keeps the data forever. When we add the new web frontend you'll be able to find your flight in the archive
[11:02] <Darkside> i'm wgetting the json data atm
[11:02] <Darkside> then will see if i can convert it to a csv for you
[11:02] <Lunar_Lander> YAY DanielRichman
[11:02] <DanielRichman> yup. either I or Darkside can give you the link to grab the json out of couchdb.
[11:02] <priyesh> DanielRichman: nice.. look forward to that
[11:02] Action: Lunar_Lander gets the guitar
[11:03] <priyesh> http://habitat.habhub.org/habitat/_design/habitat/_view/payload_telemetry?startkey=[%22ALPHA%22,%22latest%22]&descending=true&include_docs=true
[11:03] <Lunar_Lander> DanielRichman is so awesome cause he rescues all the data
[11:03] <DanielRichman> or he could csv it for you. You could ask fsphil-laptop too; he has been working on a local viewer that *might* just take the couchdb json
[11:03] <Lunar_Lander> oh yeah
[11:03] <priyesh> is it that?
[11:03] <DiJuMx> Would it be possible to built a payload which acts as a lightweight UAV-style glider on balloon burst?
[11:03] <DanielRichman> Lunar_Lander: nah rjharrison is awesome because he's been keeping data after it's deleted off the tracker for years and we'll be able to import it all
[11:04] <Lunar_Lander> yeah :)
[11:04] <DanielRichman> priyesh: that's good but you're missing an endkey: (you've included AEROS' telemetry)
[11:04] <DanielRichman> http://habitat.habhub.org/habitat/_design/habitat/_view/payload_telemetry?startkey=[%22ALPHA%22,false]&endkey=[%22ALPHA%22,%22end%22]&include_docs=true
[11:04] <priyesh> DanielRichman: so i did :)
[11:04] <Darkside> i'm dumping it to a csv now priyesh
[11:04] <DanielRichman> note that this is all telemetry ever for callsign 'ALPHA'
[11:05] <priyesh> DanielRichman: yep
[11:05] <DanielRichman> there are other ways to grab only docs attached to a certain flight doc, etc.
[11:05] <priyesh> Darkside: thanks.. saves me from doing it
[11:05] <DanielRichman> in this case though it will probably just be easier to trim testing stuff off each end by timestamp.
[11:05] <DanielRichman> it should be sorted.
[11:05] <priyesh> that's the plan
[11:05] <Darkside> just making sure the fields are right
[11:05] <priyesh> i'm going to remove the 2/3 corrupt packets from the kml track too
[11:07] <Darkside> priyesh: http://pipe2.darklomax.org/alpha.csv
[11:07] <priyesh> thanks - downloded
[11:07] <Darkside> csv = "{nicetime},{latitude},{longitude},{altitude},{satellites},{temp_int},{temp_ext},{battery_volts}"
[11:07] <Darkside> thats the format
[11:07] <Darkside> it'll probably have testing data in it
[11:08] <danielsaul> Morning
[11:08] <priyesh> Darkside: yep
[11:08] <danielsaul> *Afternoon rather
[11:08] <DanielRichman> I would suggest adding {count}, if it's easy enough so you can double check that everything is in sequence (no reason for it not to be, but...)
[11:08] <danielsaul> People pinged whilst I was asleep... not sure who
[11:08] <eroomde> can one still get free mousemats?
[11:08] <Darkside> danielsaul: thats a good point
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[11:09] <Darkside> danielsaul:
[11:09] <Darkside> aaaaack
[11:09] <Darkside> too many daniels
[11:09] <danielsaul> haha
[11:09] <Darkside> priyesh: i'm re-running the script with the packet counting included
[11:09] <priyesh> ok
[11:10] <Darkside> ok re-dwownload
[11:10] <priyesh> done
[11:13] <danielsaul> priyesh: stick the flightpath stuff in the dropbox folder please
[11:13] <danielsaul> :P
[11:13] <danielsaul> bbl
[11:15] <Lunar_Lander> Darkside: +
[11:15] <Lunar_Lander> I just got the csv also
[11:15] <Darkside> ?
[11:15] <Darkside> k
[11:15] <Lunar_Lander> it is missing the altitude data I think
[11:15] <Darkside> oh
[11:15] <Darkside> shit
[11:15] <Darkside> maybe it is :P
[11:15] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[11:15] <Darkside> hahaha
[11:15] <Darkside> my bad
[11:15] <fsphil-laptop> who needs that
[11:15] <priyesh> i've got altitude
[11:16] <Darkside> yeah it is there
[11:16] <Darkside> 1158,23:41:10,52.0541833333,19.82842,36304,5,-52.31,-57.69,3.4
[11:16] <fsphil-laptop> I've not got altitude on my tracker yet, it was very odd not knowing what it was
[11:17] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[11:19] <Lunar_Lander> ahh now
[11:21] <danielsaul> priyesh: Hope we get Alpha back, otherwise we've gotta solder up another board for the competition
[11:21] <danielsaul> and wrong channel...
[11:21] <fsphil-laptop> we didn't see it
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[11:23] <tomwyatt> whats the news?
[11:23] <NigelMoby> Hehe, u may get it back, payloads have turned up from Europe before.
[11:23] <jcoxon> So what is the max flight time we could get with a 36km floater?
[11:23] <fsphil-laptop> tomwyatt, signal lost over poland.
[11:23] <eroomde> we've had 2 come back from being washed up on a danish beach
[11:23] <eroomde> dog walkers are good people
[11:23] <fsphil-laptop> not all of them
[11:24] <fsphil-laptop> most though
[11:24] <Randomskk> eroomde: I think I win the bet
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[11:24] <fsphil-laptop> esp. those who walk early in the morning on a beach
[11:24] <danielsaul> haha
[11:24] <Darkside> fsphil-laptop: PsionicOz
[11:24] <Darkside> PsionicOz: fsphil-laptop
[11:24] <NigelMoby> Jcoxon, prolly couple of days?
[11:24] <fsphil-laptop> hi PsionicOz :)
[11:24] <fsphil-laptop> I think a latex would struggle after the first night
[11:25] <NigelMoby> Depending on power usage I guess
[11:25] <Darkside> PsionicOz: is on the project horus team, and has some questions about SSDV
[11:25] <jcoxon> Nigelmoby, I suspect that's too long
[11:25] <fsphil-laptop> fire away PsionicOz
[11:25] <jcoxon> Max 36hrs?
[11:25] <fsphil-laptop> I'd say less than 24 hours
[11:26] <NigelMoby> Wat about if its a night launch? U get linger without solar effects on the balloon...
[11:26] <fsphil-laptop> maybe a bit more in the winter
[11:26] <jcoxon> Horus did 24+
[11:26] <Darkside> burst 3 hours after sunrise
[11:26] <fsphil-laptop> did I say 24? I meant a bit more ... :)
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[11:26] <PsionicOz> Hi... I'm wondering about the compile size of the hadie ssdv stuff.. how much RAM/FLASH does it take up of the 644?
[11:26] <NigelMoby> That quick? :o
[11:27] <jcoxon> Yeah launch after sunset
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[11:27] <NigelMoby> Definstely James
[11:27] <fsphil-laptop> PsionicOz, good question. drat ;)
[11:27] <jcoxon> Basically I'm back to ny old thing
[11:27] <fsphil-laptop> one sec I'll check
[11:27] <NigelMoby> Gives an extra 12 hours at most
[11:27] <PsionicOz> Ta... haven't put avr-gcc on this machine yet..
[11:28] <jcoxon> Trans-a
[11:28] <NigelMoby> Ooo
[11:28] <NigelMoby> Can we do UK - us from here ?
[11:28] <jcoxon> All these high alt floaters are a mistake
[11:28] <fsphil-laptop> text data bss dec hex filename
[11:28] <fsphil-laptop> 2752 428 0 3180 c6c ssdv.o
[11:29] <fsphil-laptop> PsionicOz, assuming that's correct. 2.7k of flash
[11:29] <Darkside> fsphil-laptop: does that include the buffers?
[11:29] <jcoxon> What happens when you plan it
[11:29] <Darkside> i mean, the receiver buffers and things in the ram
[11:29] <eroomde> it bursts at 25km
[11:29] <NigelMoby> Lol
[11:29] <jonsowman> haha
[11:29] <jonsowman> so true
[11:29] <PsionicOz> fsphil-laptop: ok that's not much...
[11:29] <zyp> fsphil-laptop, no, 3.2k of flash
[11:29] <fsphil-laptop> isn't the data (428) ram usage zyp?
[11:29] <fsphil-laptop> ooh
[11:29] <fsphil-laptop> gotcha
[11:29] <eroomde> we should build a 10m TX (hellshrteiber) to fly on all hoywee flights
[11:29] <eroomde> that turns on automatically 500km down range
[11:30] <zyp> .data is also stored in flash and loaded to ram at boot
[11:30] <Darkside> hahaha
[11:30] <fsphil-laptop> yep just remembered
[11:30] <eroomde> as a sort of floater insurance policy payload
[11:30] <NigelMoby> I have the swift launches coming up, they'll be a good test bed James.
[11:30] <Randomskk> NigelMoby: are they meant to be floaters?
[11:30] <Randomskk> because with a name like swift...
[11:30] <NigelMoby> Yup
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[11:30] <eroomde> because of the way that wrapped wierdly in my terminal, that said:
[11:30] <Randomskk> excellent :D
[11:30] <fsphil-laptop> that doesn't include the buffer I have for reading from the camera PsionicOz, that'll be about 256 bytes more
[11:30] <eroomde> NigelMoby: I bed James
[11:31] <fsphil-laptop> huh
[11:31] <jcoxon> ? Eroomde
[11:31] <NigelMoby> Wtf
[11:31] <Randomskk> haha you would probably have put the whole message on one line eroomde
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[11:31] <jonsowman> eroomde: orly?
[11:31] <jonsowman> :P
[11:31] <DrLuke> where do you european guys buy your balloons?
[11:31] <eroomde> the terminal wrapped wierdly and cut off 'have the swift launches coming up, they'll be a good test'
[11:31] <eroomde> and just left' I... bed James'
[11:31] <jcoxon> Hehe
[11:32] <NigelMoby> Lol Ooo
[11:32] <jcoxon> So yeah
[11:32] <jcoxon> A high alt high speed crossing
[11:32] Action: fsphil-laptop recovers
[11:32] <NigelMoby> Drluke randomsolutions
[11:32] <NigelMoby> .co.UK ?
[11:32] <DrLuke> thanks
[11:32] <lephisto> morgon
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[11:33] <priyesh> nice :)
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[11:33] <jcoxon> Wow zeusbot is useful again
[11:33] <jonsowman> yes i'm surprised that worked
[11:33] <jonsowman> lol
[11:34] <PsionicOz> fsphil-laptop: Thanks we've got a bit to think about.. we'd like to graft this into one of our payloads, just got to work out how :)
[11:34] <fsphil-laptop> PsionicOz, looking forward to it! any questions I'm usually floating around in here
[11:35] <NigelMoby> Nice pun. Phil
[11:35] <jonsowman> hehe
[11:35] <fsphil-laptop> I thought so lol
[11:35] <NigelMoby> Lol
[11:36] <jcoxon> NigeyMob, I suspect it would still require s US launch
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[11:36] <fsphil-laptop> what a good excuse to visit there
[11:36] <NigelMoby> I think so, which is kinda costly :(
[11:37] <fsphil-laptop> we could ship the stuff to dan or bill
[11:37] <fsphil-laptop> they might be up for launching it
[11:37] <jcoxon> Exactly
[11:37] <jcoxon> The only thing is that it would be quite tight
[11:37] <NigelMoby> Ohh now that'd work out nicely
[11:38] <PsionicOz> fsphil-laptop: no problem I'm sure we'll have questions when we start hacking :)
[11:38] <jcoxon> So you'd need toaunch from the coast
[11:38] <fsphil-laptop> I don't think either live near the coast do they?
[11:38] <NigelMoby> Def an east coast launch
[11:38] <fsphil-laptop> launch from Newfoundland would be better
[11:39] <fsphil-laptop> St. Johns is about as close as you can get
[11:39] <daveake> Is this the 6th stage of HAB expenditure? ;)
[11:39] <fsphil-laptop> yep daveake, having to fly around the globe :)
[11:39] <daveake> ... getting on a plane to go launch.
[11:39] <daveake> Sounds good :)
[11:40] <fsphil-laptop> it's at this stage you have reached HAB zen .. and also bankruptcy
[11:40] <daveake> lol
[11:40] <fsphil-laptop> I'm seriously considering flying to cambridge to launch ;)
[11:41] <daveake> :)
[11:41] <daveake> Sounds like a good alternative to Miller Time
[11:42] <daveake> I'll order a He cylinder soon so I can go there with son-of-Buzz
[11:43] <fsphil-laptop> the rental on this cylinder I have is starting to add up. I'd need to launch soon
[11:43] <Darkside> fsphil-laptop: have you cosidereg embedding metadata in the SSDV packets
[11:43] <Darkside> i.e. position andtime
[11:43] <fsphil-laptop> Darkside, I have - I'm considering another packet type that just includes metadata
[11:43] <Darkside> ok
[11:43] <Darkside> me and PsionicOz are just discussing how we can reliably timestamp packets
[11:44] <Darkside> and work out their position, etc
[11:44] <PsionicOz> metadata in the picture would be preferable...
[11:44] <Darkside> i was just thinking blat out a 600 baud telemetry string before you start sending off the image
[11:44] <fsphil-laptop> that's more or less what I do now
[11:44] <fsphil-laptop> though I'd prefer something with error correction
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[11:45] <PsionicOz> how many seconds does it take to get the picture out of the system?
[11:45] <Darkside> well, first things first - get the hardware ready to do it
[11:45] <fsphil-laptop> a binary format maybe, including position, altitude and callsign
[11:45] <Darkside> PsionicOz: 2.8 minutes for 320x240 at 600 baud
[11:45] <PsionicOz> right-o
[11:45] <Darkside> actually slightly less
[11:46] <Darkside> because we could probably turn FEC off
[11:46] <fsphil-laptop> if there was a way to get rid of the start and stop bits, it would be quicker
[11:46] <PsionicOz> if you've got to wait 2.8minutes for an image then leave the FEC on otherwise you run the risk of never getting one.
[11:47] <Darkside> PsionicOz: well it sends it in parts
[11:47] <Darkside> if you loose one packet you just get a black spot in the image
[11:47] <PsionicOz> lots of black spots.
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[11:48] <fsphil-laptop> it depends on image complexity. simpler images (lots of sky) will transmit quicker
[11:49] <griffonbot> Received email: Howard Smith "[UKHAS] Howard's blog record of APEX ALPHA"
[11:49] <PsionicOz> fsphil-laptop: is the image decoded in any way or is it simply clocked out of the camera buffer, encoded and sent ?
[11:49] <fsphil-laptop> it's not fully decoded, more repackaged
[11:50] <fsphil-laptop> jpeg blocks use data from previous blocks, that was removed
[11:50] <fsphil-laptop> so each 16x16 block is independent
[11:50] <PsionicOz> fsphil-laptop: that is the feeling I got when I looked at it.. so your not reading whats between the JPEG markers :)
[11:51] <PsionicOz> fsphil-laptop: ok that makes sense.
[11:51] <fsphil-laptop> the avr version ignores the headers totally I think
[11:51] <fsphil-laptop> just because I know what they are already
[11:51] <fsphil-laptop> the command line version is a bit smarter
[11:51] <Darkside> PsionicOz: camera should be at uni tuesday
[11:51] <PsionicOz> darkside: hahaha that's fast !
[11:51] <Seeker`> Did anyone try submitting a story to slashdot to try to recruit people?
[11:52] <PsionicOz> darkside: I start work on monday :(
[11:52] <Darkside> PsionicOz: awwwwww
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[11:52] <Darkside> PsionicOz: wait, as in tomorrow?
[11:53] <PsionicOz> fsphil-laptop: We'll I've got some more code to read (ie yours)... to figure out how it works a little better.
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[11:53] <PsionicOz> Darkside: No the 31st.. I forget it's Sunday
[11:53] <Darkside> heh
[11:53] <Darkside> well, i think we could have something hacked up by the end of the week :P
[11:53] <Darkside> maybe even get it blatting out images via APRS :P
[11:53] <Darkside> wouldn't that be fun
[11:53] <griffonbot> @apexhab: An excellent write up from our #apexhab Alpha launch yesterday. http://t.co/gRYf6Xdd #ukhas [http://twitter.com/apexhab/status/128076663492845569]
[11:53] <PsionicOz> darkside: most likely
[11:54] <fsphil-laptop> priyesh,
[11:54] <Darkside> we could *really* make use of the APRS network :P
[11:54] <Darkside> haha
[11:54] <fsphil-laptop> er
[11:54] <fsphil-laptop> PsionicOz, yea I need to write more documentation too
[11:54] <fsphil-laptop> tab fail
[11:54] <priyesh> fsphil-laptop: ?
[11:54] <priyesh> oh
[11:54] <priyesh> tabfail
[11:54] <priyesh> :P
[11:54] <fsphil-laptop> sorry priyesh :)
[11:54] <priyesh> np
[11:54] <Darkside> fsphil-laptop: type the first few letters *then* try to autocomplete
[11:55] <griffonbot> @smithh: RT @apexhab: An excellent write up from our #apexhab Alpha launch yesterday. http://t.co/gRYf6Xdd #ukhas [http://twitter.com/smithh/status/128076963440103424]
[11:55] <fsphil-laptop> how easy would it be to receive the packets from aprs?
[11:55] <fsphil-laptop> can they be tagged somehow
[11:55] <PsionicOz> fsphil-laptop: receiving aprs is a PITA, far harder than transmit
[11:55] <earthshine> Anyone a MotoGP fan?
[11:55] <fsphil-laptop> I'm not too familiar with ax.25
[11:56] <NigelMoby> I saw the news earthshine, very sad :(
[11:56] <PsionicOz> fsphil-laptop: I've got a full HAB APRS digi under construction built upon the argent data Tracker2 firmware (with originators blessing)
[11:56] <earthshine> NigelMoby: Yeah. Terrible.
[11:58] <PsionicOz> fsphil-laptop: depending on how you've split the packets up from the camera we might be able to just clock them out over ax.25 especially if it's only 16x16 bytes per packet
[11:58] <PsionicOz> fsphil-laptop: getting them off the air and into a poota is only a soundcard modem away (AGWPE).
[11:59] <daveake> earthshine: I saw the accident earlier. Awful.
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[11:59] <earthshine> daveake: Haven't watched it yet but I heard the news.
[11:59] <daveake> Best not to watch.
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[12:02] <EI5GTB> hows alpha going guys?
[12:02] <fsphil-laptop> PsionicOz, the packets are 256 bytes
[12:02] <fsphil-laptop> 224 without FEC
[12:03] <fsphil-laptop> but that can be reduced too
[12:03] <fsphil-laptop> but it would have to be manually changed in the decoder
[12:03] <fsphil-laptop> how big can an ax.25 packet be?
[12:04] <Lunar_Lander> EI5GTB : the signal was lost over poland at 11:41 pm UTC
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[12:05] <EI5GTB> Lunar_Lander hmm, that was a pretty good float
[12:05] <PsionicOz> fsphil-laptop 255 octets, need to take some off for FCS and control...
[12:06] <fsphil-laptop> without modifying the packet, the first byte could be dropped without any problem
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[12:06] <fsphil-laptop> the first two even, if there was some way to identify it as an ssdv packet in the ax.25 layer
[12:07] <fsphil-laptop> they can both be re-inserted by the receiver
[12:07] <PsionicOz> fsphil-laptop: scratch that info field can be 256 octets
[12:07] <fsphil-laptop> is there any point in having FEC though, won't ax.25 reject packets with any errors anyway?
[12:07] <Lunar_Lander> EI5GTB : yes
[12:08] <PsionicOz> fsphil-laptop: yes the FEC may be redundant since there's a CRC on every ax.25 frame
[12:08] <fsphil-laptop> there's also a CRC in the packet, so 222 bytes
[12:08] <fsphil-laptop> without FEC and CRC
[12:08] <fsphil-laptop> 220 without the packet ID field
[12:09] <Lunar_Lander> priyesh : that Howard is also a potential balloonist?
[12:09] <fsphil-laptop> all those things can be re-added
[12:09] <fsphil-laptop> could APRS-IS be used to collect the packets?
[12:09] <priyesh> Lunar_Lander: yes.. he's interested in HABing
[12:09] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[12:09] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[12:09] <PsionicOz> fsphil-laptop: ok I'll take a closer look at this...
[12:10] <Lunar_Lander> "Belohnung für das Finden" can be easily replaced by "Finderlohn!"
[12:10] <priyesh> i believe we just used google translate :P
[12:10] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[12:10] <fsphil-laptop> there's an idea Lunar_Lander, a wiki page with common HAB-related phrases in German :)
[12:11] <PsionicOz> fsphil-laptop: it would depend on how we construct the frame... if we can utilise an APRS frame within ax.25 then yes we could get APRS-IS to log the packets for us.
[12:11] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[12:11] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[12:11] <Lunar_Lander> and Tim or costyn could do a dutch version
[12:11] <fsphil-laptop> PsionicOz, that would give it pretty amazing coverage
[12:11] <PsionicOz> fsphil-laptop: there is a "experimental" APRS packet where we can send what ever data we like which should be recorded by APRS-IS, but I'd need to hack a bit of code to see what happens
[12:12] <Lunar_Lander> nosebleed could do Greek, but I doubt that you will reach greece from england
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[12:12] <fsphil-laptop> the packets from multiple stations can be combined
[12:12] <PsionicOz> fsphil-laptop: the hardware that darkside has been working on we've got APRS firmware (trackuino) for it too... being able to use the APRS network to track your HAB is very cool
[12:13] <Lunar_Lander> priyesh : the big altitude display is cool!
[12:13] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[12:13] <priyesh> :D
[12:13] <fsphil-laptop> PsionicOz, I bet! It would have been useful on last nights flight across europe
[12:14] <PsionicOz> fsphil-laptop: yes I heard about that.. we nearly had the same on one of our flights, but we managed to find some willing trackers to hold up the vigil ... we had two of our team running a help desk for these hams out the back of the 4WD's as we made our way home.
[12:15] <PsionicOz> Was only a 1400km round trip for the chasers :)
[12:15] <fsphil-laptop> lol, I remember that one. Stayed up to watch it
[12:15] <fsphil-laptop> the tracking at the end was amazing, nearly down to the sea
[12:15] <PsionicOz> fsphil-laptop: Anyway will take a good look at how your packets are put together tomorrow when the brain is less foggy.
[12:16] <PsionicOz> I was there too... no way I could sleep after chasing that sucker half way across the country and *not* know where it finished.
[12:16] <fsphil-laptop> there are probably things that can be done better
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[12:16] <PsionicOz> Having read most of the code it's very well structured and should be an easy port :)
[12:16] Nick change: Radim -> Guest62609
[12:17] <fsphil-laptop> It would be better code if I wasn't limiting memory usage so much
[12:17] <PsionicOz> but when you've only got a few kb of ram you've got no choice :
[12:17] <fsphil-laptop> exactly. the command line version will probably get a re-write
[12:18] <fsphil-laptop> I've got some ideas to try and squeeze the images a bit more
[12:19] <PsionicOz> if we could get some metadata into the frames this would be good :-P
[12:19] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[12:19] <fsphil-laptop> fixed-length format, it's tricky ;)
[12:20] <Hiena> God bless, the inventor of the cofee-filter, the protector saint of the spotless PCB ethcing.
[12:20] <Darkside> you only need about 20 bytes fsphil-laptop
[12:20] <fsphil-laptop> you'd need to include it in each packet though Darkside
[12:20] <PsionicOz> pad the frame with zeros :)
[12:20] <Darkside> 8 bytes for lat/long, 2 for altitude
[12:20] <Darkside> and 3 for time
[12:21] <PsionicOz> gah.. make it human readable
[12:21] <fsphil-laptop> I shall do some testing :)
[12:21] <Darkside> haha PsionicOz
[12:21] <fsphil-laptop> it's a binary format already :p
[12:21] <Darkside> yeah may as well do the decoding on the other end :P
[12:21] <Darkside> human readability is overrated
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[12:21] <PsionicOz> well it's going to get converted to 7-bit format somewhere :)
[12:22] <Darkside> yeah we need to fix that
[12:22] <Darkside> see if we can get dl-fldigi doing raw FSK
[12:22] <fsphil-laptop> I still think a separate packet for meta is the way to go.
[12:22] <Darkside> i guess it would require a training sequence
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[12:23] <PsionicOz> one of the cool things with doing it on APRS is we can continue to send telemetry while an image frame is coming down.
[12:24] <fsphil-laptop> with 2 stop bits and 1 start bit, ssdv over rtty is about 20% wasteful
[12:24] <Darkside> they do that with RTTY too PsionicOz
[12:24] <PsionicOz> just send the images in the free time :)
[12:24] <Darkside> PsionicOz: haha, and absolutely rape the nework
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[12:24] <fsphil-laptop> my flights send human-readable text between images ;)
[12:24] <Darkside> i'm sure they'll love us for that
[12:24] <PsionicOz> ah hadn't read that far yet
[12:24] <fsphil-laptop> actually between packets
[12:24] <PsionicOz> darkside: there's not much else to listen to on that network
[12:24] <fsphil-laptop> it sends 10 strings between images
[12:24] <Darkside> haha
[12:25] <Darkside> i'm sure if we gave everyone the software to read the images they'd be happier
[12:25] <fsphil-laptop> yea
[12:25] <fsphil-laptop> new fldigi has packet support
[12:25] <PsionicOz> yupe... most of the UK guys could get them from aprs-is live too :)
[12:25] <fsphil-laptop> I could add APRS-IS support to the live SSDV page
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[12:26] <PsionicOz> Ah now that would be cool...
[12:26] <PsionicOz> Ok lots of food for thought tonight :
[12:26] <Darkside> or get it added to aprs.fi :-)
[12:26] <fsphil-laptop> they'd love it lol
[12:26] <fsphil-laptop> my page looks better though ;)
[12:27] <PsionicOz> fsphil-laptop: yup
[12:27] <fsphil-laptop> but yes position data would be helpful
[12:27] <fsphil-laptop> I was considering adding a callsign field in it
[12:27] <fsphil-laptop> so it could be used on HF
[12:27] <Darkside> fsphil-laptop: actually we'd need that anyway
[12:27] <Darkside> well, not on APRS
[12:27] <Darkside> but if we were using RTTY
[12:28] <fsphil-laptop> you could still transmit the callsign as text though
[12:28] <fsphil-laptop> before each packet
[12:28] <Darkside> yup
[12:28] <fsphil-laptop> something like "SSDV packet from 2I0VIM follows..."
[12:29] <fsphil-laptop> although I suppose you only really need to do it once per image
[12:29] <PsionicOz> why so often?
[12:29] <PsionicOz> I would have thought once on the first packet and then every 10mins would keep the regulators happy...
[12:29] <fsphil-laptop> fair point
[12:30] <PsionicOz> unless your concerned about multiple people sending at once
[12:30] <fsphil-laptop> at the moment, the packets are identified by what payload is selected in dl-fldigi
[12:30] <fsphil-laptop> it's not really ideal
[12:30] <PsionicOz> fsphil-laptop: do you have some sort of frame sequence number ?
[12:31] <fsphil-laptop> yes, there's an 8-bit image ID and 16-bit packet ID
[12:31] <PsionicOz> ok.. so between these each packet is unique.
[12:32] <fsphil-laptop> the packet ID is unique per-image
[12:32] <fsphil-laptop> the image ID I normally increment by one for each image
[12:32] <fsphil-laptop> at the speed the images are sent at, 8-bit is probably overkill
[12:33] <PsionicOz> so the packet ID increments upwards or is static?
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[12:34] <fsphil-laptop> increased by one for each packet in an image
[12:34] <fsphil-laptop> that bit is strict, it uses the packet id to detect gaps
[12:34] <fsphil-laptop> and to re-assemble data from multiple stations
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[12:34] <fsphil-laptop> the image ID can be anything, as long as it changes between images
[12:35] <fsphil-laptop> receiver stations*
[12:36] <PsionicOz> ok so you can take packets from anywhere and rebuild based on "flight name" and the "packet/image id's"
[12:36] <fsphil-laptop> yes
[12:36] <PsionicOz> that works :)
[12:36] <fsphil-laptop> as long as there are less than 256 images per flight ;)
[12:37] <fsphil-laptop> though if each packet includes a timestamp of when it was received, it can be any number of images
[12:37] <fsphil-laptop> the live page considers an image done if it gets no new data in 5 minutes
[12:37] <PsionicOz> doing it over APRS is going to be slower as there is alot of overhead in every UI frame like the source and destinations...
[12:37] <Darkside> but 1200 baud APRS is currently more reliable than 1200 baud RTTY
[12:38] <PsionicOz> darkside: good point
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[12:38] <fsphil-laptop> yea, tuning is not as critical
[12:38] <fsphil-laptop> there was a very fine line for 1200 baud over ssb
[12:38] <fsphil-laptop> unless we all started using funcube dongles
[12:38] <PsionicOz> fsphil-laptop: not having to trick up the RX frequency is nice :)
[12:39] <Darkside> PsionicOz: we don't have to on the VHF modules anyway :P
[12:39] <fsphil-laptop> I think Tim is trying 1200 baud again soon, with a better camera
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[12:39] <fsphil-laptop> brb
[12:39] <PsionicOz> I've got some 33,600bps modems for standard 3kHz wide HF channel that use a 200MHz ARM Core and 600MHZ DSP but I'm not sure we could get them up on a balloon...
[12:40] <PsionicOz> juxta: howdy
[12:40] <juxta> hi Matt
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[12:40] <Darkside> juxta: i ordered one of those TTL cameras tonight
[12:41] <PsionicOz> juxta: Darkside needed new toys
[12:41] <juxta> nice :)
[12:41] <juxta> hehe
[12:41] <juxta> PsionicOz, could I come around at somepoint and borrow one of those DTMF IC's?
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[12:42] <PsionicOz> yupe... I'll take a look in the box and make sure I can find them first :)
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[12:46] <PsionicOz> juxta: found them...
[12:46] <PsionicOz> I've got four left :)
[12:47] <juxta> oh, brilliant PsionicOz
[12:47] <juxta> are you around much this week?
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[12:49] <PsionicOz> juxta: I'm home most of this week looking after boys... start full time work again on the 31st :(
[12:50] <juxta> alright, no worries
[12:50] <juxta> I'll give you a buzz when I have a bit of time and head up your way :)
[12:50] <PsionicOz> I might be down the Port on Tuesday launching a boat, wednesday I go sailing until 9pm-ish and could drop something off to you ?
[12:51] <PsionicOz> I've got a colour burst crystal 3.57MHz if you need it?
[12:51] <Lunar_Lander> back
[12:52] <juxta> oh yeah - sorry, forgot to mention that
[12:52] <juxta> I haven't got any - might I borrow one too? :)
[12:52] <fsphil-laptop> mmm apple
[12:52] <juxta> are they through hole?
[12:53] <fsphil-laptop> only if a bug has been eating at them
[12:53] Action: fsphil-laptop gets his coat
[12:53] <PsionicOz> yes.. the dtmf chips are dip14 and xtal is HC49
[12:54] <fsphil-laptop> Darkside, one suggestion -- if you're going for >33km you may need a filter
[12:54] <fsphil-laptop> I noticed the last three images from my flight where beginning to look over-exposed
[12:54] <Darkside> fsphil-laptop: hmm ok
[12:54] <Laurenceb_> any reception since last niught/
[12:54] <fsphil-laptop> nothing Laurenceb_
[12:54] <Laurenceb_> :(
[12:54] <fsphil-laptop> yea
[12:55] <Laurenceb_> anyone out there?
[12:55] Nick change: fsphil-laptop -> fsphil
[12:56] <EI5GTB> im out here
[12:56] <fsphil> I'm over there
[12:57] <Lunar_Lander> danger tiger!
[12:57] <EI5GTB> so between un we're "out there"
[12:57] <Laurenceb_> EI5GTB: heard anything?
[12:57] <Laurenceb_> lol
[12:57] <EI5GTB> what freq
[12:57] <Lunar_Lander> I'm glad there are no tigers here
[12:57] <Laurenceb_> from APEX
[12:57] <EI5GTB> oh
[12:57] <fsphil> Lunar_Lander, yet
[12:57] <Laurenceb_> its probably landed now anyway
[12:57] <EI5GTB> yea, naw heard nothing, was in bed early last night
[12:58] <Laurenceb_> im guessing it landed in Western Russia this morning
[12:58] <EI5GTB> some russians are gonna be confused!
[12:58] <EI5GTB> contact info on the side?
[12:58] <Lunar_Lander> xD fsphil
[13:01] <fsphil> the most dangerous animals here are cows I think :)
[13:01] <fsphil> and farmers
[13:01] <PsionicOz> 'ere be dragons?
[13:01] <fsphil> nah, the dragons are harmless thankfully
[13:02] <steve|m> btw, we've playing with GMR/Thuraya recently: http://gmr.osmocom.org/trac/
[13:02] <steve|m> thuraya would be a nice downlink for balloons as well :)
[13:03] <fsphil> satellite tracking would be the other ideal solution for last nights flight :)
[13:03] <Darkside> :P
[13:03] <Darkside> give me a few years
[13:03] <Darkside> really want to stick a remote SDR in a cubesat
[13:04] <Darkside> its gonna require one hell of a downlink though
[13:04] <Laurenceb_> wow
[13:04] <Laurenceb_> interesting board teardown
[13:04] <fsphil> put the rtty decoder on the satellite
[13:04] <Darkside> fsphil: or that
[13:04] <fsphil> have it return only valid frames
[13:04] <fsphil> or ssdv packets :)
[13:05] <Darkside> bah, i'd just send down pictures from the cubesat itself :P
[13:05] <Darkside> much more interesting
[13:05] <fsphil> agreed!
[13:06] <Darkside> i believe that's stage 7 of HAB expenditure
[13:06] <fsphil> lol
[13:06] <Darkside> move on from HAB to satellites :P
[13:07] <fsphil> what's a reasonable number of characters to store a callsign in?
[13:07] <Darkside> 7
[13:07] <Darkside> actually
[13:07] <PsionicOz> I'd say 5 but others say 7...
[13:07] <Darkside> 6
[13:08] <fsphil> uk callsigns are never more than 6
[13:08] <Darkside> yeah
[13:08] <Darkside> and standard/advanced licenses here (i.e. can do data) are 6
[13:08] <Darkside> or 5
[13:08] <fsphil> but there might be an unusual format out there that I don't know about (likely)
[13:08] <Darkside> 7 seems to be foundation/limited licenses
[13:08] <PsionicOz> start with 6 and wait for the screaming
[13:08] <steve|m> what's interesting with thuraya is that I received a lot of beams from africa here in germany, see http://bit.ly/nInTOi
[13:08] <fsphil> lol
[13:09] <fsphil> I'll try 7 .. I can store that in 5 bytes I think
[13:09] <steve|m> so their beam-forming antennas seem to have quite a few sidelobes
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[13:11] <eroomde> i'm on the oxford tube with a relentlessly happy coach driver
[13:11] <eroomde> he keeps making needlessly long and overly matey announcements
[13:11] <fsphil> hiya nickolai
[13:12] <eroomde> like a parody of a wedding DJ
[13:12] <nickolai> morning fsphil
[13:12] <eroomde> 'ok OAPs, time to re-live your youch as we come to the university bus stop. take it away...'
[13:12] <jonsowman> lol
[13:12] <nickolai> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=84e57e62234329be1401753463cfeb0f08341d9c
[13:12] <eroomde> but, i did just get a cortex m3 project to build on eclipse with a DIY toolchain
[13:13] <eroomde> which i don;t think I've ever managed before
[13:13] <nickolai> should be the path for my flight today :)
[13:13] <fsphil> is it good nickolai? difficult to tell what is a good or bad flight in the US .. it all looks good on the map :)
[13:13] <EI5GTB> must go knock some brekki together
[13:14] <nickolai> it's long, but we're ready to handle it
[13:14] <fsphil> "Gas City"
[13:14] <eroomde> 'okey dokey, time to proceed! can i remind you all folks that you need to wear a seat belt, if you think about it for a wee minute it's just common sense. so let's all show respect for our fellow passengers and buckle. next stop hillingdon, if you all behave yourselves...' and on and on
[13:14] <eroomde> i might go mad
[13:15] <nickolai> gotta go make some last minute purchases
[13:15] <nickolai> see you all later!
[13:15] <junderwood> eroomde, I thnk you may have done already :)
[13:15] <fsphil> The cardiff-to-london announcer kept putting pauses between random words
[13:15] <fsphil> "The next ..... stop is Newport ..... Central"
[13:17] <fsphil> oooh lidl vouchers from an email address in .ru .... woo-hoo
[13:18] <Lunar_Lander> ROFL
[13:18] <Darkside> hmm better get to sleep
[13:18] <Darkside> nn all
[13:18] <Lunar_Lander> gn8 Darkside
[13:18] <fsphil> night Darkside
[13:19] <Lunar_Lander> btw fsphil do you know the LIDL song?
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[13:19] <fsphil> can't say that I do
[13:19] <fsphil> do I want to know it?
[13:19] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[13:19] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4kBcm-ls8Y
[13:19] <fsphil> I got my small telescope in Lidl, it's actually pretty good
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[13:21] <fsphil> ooook
[13:22] <PsionicOz> darkside: ttfn
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[13:23] <fsphil> is there a database of callsigns somewhere?
[13:23] <Lunar_Lander> xD fsphil
[13:23] <Lunar_Lander> isn't it QRZ.com?
[13:23] Action: LazyLeopard presumes you mean balloon callsigns...
[13:23] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[13:24] <fsphil> I need just a list
[13:24] <LazyLeopard> yes?
[13:24] <fsphil> callsigns in general really
[13:24] <fsphil> balloon or amateur
[13:24] <PsionicOz> amateur try qrz.com
[13:24] <PsionicOz> balloons dl-fldigi ?
[13:24] <fsphil> what some statistics on length and character frequency
[13:25] <PsionicOz> ok for amateur 0-9, a-z in any order up to 6 characters in length
[13:25] <eroomde> junderwood: no comment
[13:26] <junderwood> fsphil, I think there was a reasonable write-up on wikipedia
[13:26] <LazyLeopard> Ah. Various sites allow callsign look-ups (eg qrz.com eham.net hamlog.eu) but actual files full of calls are trickier...
[13:27] <eroomde> there is the rsgb contacts book
[13:27] <eroomde> but obviously you'll have enormous frequencies of G and M
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[13:31] <fsphil> no point being fancy I guess, just stick to the number of characters
[13:32] GW8RAK (~chatzilla@host-78-150-134-231.as13285.net) joined #highaltitude.
[13:32] <Lunar_Lander> hello GW8RAK
[13:32] <fsphil> right, time for some grub
[13:33] <Lunar_Lander> Linux Dualboot?
[13:34] ffffffffffffff (~fffffffff@184.163.252.124) joined #highaltitude.
[13:35] <eroomde> I think there were 121 people on the channel last night at one point
[13:35] <GW8RAK> Hi Lunar_Lander.
[13:35] <griffonbot> @Arduinoist: APEX Alpha Hi-Alt Balloon disappears over Eastern Europe: http://t.co/y97Qa0E9 #apexhab #ukhas [http://twitter.com/Arduinoist/status/128102238848692224]
[13:35] <NigelMoby> 133 ed
[13:36] <griffonbot> @apexhab: RT @Arduinoist: APEX Alpha Hi-Alt Balloon disappears over Eastern Europe: http://t.co/y97Qa0E9 #apexhab #ukhas [http://twitter.com/apexhab/status/128102372294668288]
[13:36] <griffonbot> @danielsaul: RT @Arduinoist: APEX Alpha Hi-Alt Balloon disappears over Eastern Europe: http://t.co/y97Qa0E9 #apexhab #ukhas [http://twitter.com/danielsaul/status/128102381589250049]
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[13:36] <eroomde> NigelMoby: insane
[13:36] <NigelMoby> Yup, still a lot in here now.
[13:41] <griffonbot> @Arduinoist: @apexhab If you extrapolate from APEX Alpha's speed and heading, where would it be now? #ukhas [http://twitter.com/Arduinoist/status/128103635862302720]
[13:42] <priyesh> there were over 130 at one point i think
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[13:47] <NigelMoby> Wonder if a 600gm balloon would float
[13:47] <eroomde> worth a try!
[13:48] <NigelMoby> Got 1 here, and 3 payloads ready to go when the gps boards arrive.
[13:51] <griffonbot> @hackaday: RT @apexhab: An urgent call for HAM users in Poland or Belarus to help us track #apexhab alpha. All RTs appreciated! DETAILS: http://t.c ... [http://twitter.com/hackaday/status/128106352735305728]
[13:52] <griffonbot> @tronixstuff: RT @apexhab: An urgent call for HAM users in Poland or Belarus to help us track #apexhab alpha. All RTs appreciated! DETAILS: http://t.c ... [http://twitter.com/tronixstuff/status/128106585317838849]
[13:53] <griffonbot> @PolishDemon: RT @apexhab: An urgent call for HAM users in Poland or Belarus to help us track #apexhab alpha. All RTs appreciated! DETAILS: http://t.c ... [http://twitter.com/PolishDemon/status/128106670571266048]
[13:53] <NigelMoby> Lol Twitter spam :)
[13:53] <griffonbot> @apexhab: @hackaday We now need HAM users in Russia #apexhab #ukhas [http://twitter.com/apexhab/status/128106856701886465]
[13:53] <ffffffffffffff> probably passing over Chernobyl right now
[13:53] <griffonbot> @dudegalea: RT @apexhab: An urgent call for HAM users in Poland or Belarus to help us track #apexhab alpha. All RTs appreciated! DETAILS: http://t.c ... [http://twitter.com/dudegalea/status/128106885248327681]
[13:54] <NigelMoby> Lol
[13:54] <Lunar_Lander> 1560 km if the speed was constant
[13:54] <griffonbot> @SciStarborne: RT @apexhab: An urgent call for HAM users in Poland or Belarus to help us track #apexhab alpha. All RTs appreciated! DETAILS: http://t.c ... [http://twitter.com/SciStarborne/status/128106983143387137]
[13:54] <griffonbot> @apexhab: @hackaday It may have even burst in which case we need people looking for it! #apexhab #ukhas [http://twitter.com/apexhab/status/128106984187760640]
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[13:55] <fsphil> I wonder if we should filter out RT* tweets
[13:55] <Lunar_Lander> so if the balloon would float up to now
[13:55] <Lunar_Lander> it would have reached Kazahkstan
[13:55] <griffonbot> @android_dreams: RT @apexhab: An urgent call for HAM users in Poland or Belarus to help us track #apexhab alpha. All RTs appreciated! DETAILS: http://t.c ... [http://twitter.com/android_dreams/status/128107243261538304]
[13:55] <danielsaul> Going to be a lot of retweets now... Could have done with hackaday tweeting that last night
[13:56] <NigelMoby> Yup
[13:56] <griffonbot> @MsAsti: RT @apexhab: An urgent call for HAM users in Poland or Belarus to help us track #apexhab alpha. All RTs appreciated! DETAILS: http://t.c ... [http://twitter.com/MsAsti/status/128107510929436672]
[13:56] <fsphil> we should probably get a list of contacts out that way
[13:56] <fsphil> to be better prepared for the next float
[13:57] <NigelMoby> Would certainly help
[13:57] <eroomde> spot tracker too
[13:58] <griffonbot> @REDSHlRT: RT @apexhab: An urgent call for HAM users in Poland or Belarus to help us track #apexhab alpha. All RTs appreciated! DETAILS: http://t.c ... [http://twitter.com/REDSHlRT/status/128107923531505664]
[13:58] <NigelMoby> Even a gsm would've helped
[13:58] <jonsowman> sorry for the spam
[13:58] <jonsowman> shall i shut griffonbot up for a bit?
[13:58] <Lunar_Lander> no problem
[13:59] <eroomde> keep it going
[13:59] <eroomde> it's live news
[13:59] <NigelMoby> It's cool Jon, I like the way every1 pulls together when needs be.
[13:59] <jonsowman> okay :)
[13:59] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[13:59] <griffonbot> @chibi_missy: RT @apexhab: An urgent call for HAM users in Poland or Belarus to help us track #apexhab alpha. All RTs appreciated! DETAILS: http://t.c ... [http://twitter.com/chibi_missy/status/128108347793747968]
[14:00] <Lunar_Lander> who are those people who retweet it btw? :)
[14:00] <eroomde> The Internet
[14:00] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[14:01] <griffonbot> @royrobotiks: RT @apexhab: An urgent call for HAM users in Poland or Belarus to help us track #apexhab alpha. All RTs appreciated! DETAILS: http://t.c ... [http://twitter.com/royrobotiks/status/128108893023907840]
[14:02] <fsphil> I'd RT it but everyone following me is in here already
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[14:04] <fsphil> RADIOSONDE BALLOON RELEASES FROM 5036N 00157W (DURLSTON HEAD,
[14:04] <fsphil> SWANAGE). RADIOSONDE AND ASSOCIATED EQUIPMENT WILL SUBSEQUENTLY
[14:04] <fsphil> DESCEND BY PARACHUTE.
[14:04] <fsphil> someone launching on the south coast
[14:05] <NigelMoby> Hmm.. when?
[14:05] <fsphil> dunno, but the phone number is for Durlston Country Park
[14:06] <NigelMoby> Hmm
[14:06] <fsphil> Hamish Murray
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[14:06] <fsphil> yikes, the internet is spooky. I know too much already :)
[14:07] Action: costyn waves
[14:07] <costyn> can you guys id this antenna? http://i.imgur.com/acz92.jpg
[14:07] Action: fsphil oscillates
[14:07] <Laurenceb_> its almost certainly down by now
[14:07] <Laurenceb_> we needed them around 10am UK time
[14:08] <Laurenceb_> probably nothing to hear by now if its like Horus16 :(
[14:09] <fsphil> costyn, it's a Discone
[14:10] <costyn> fsphil: ok, used for what? My theory is that it was for an alarm system that one of the previous owners of my house had
[14:10] <fsphil> costyn, it's usually used for scanners
[14:10] <fsphil> they're very wide band, can cover a huge range of frequencies
[14:11] <junderwood> some can be used for transmit as wel
[14:11] <costyn> ah ok... interesting
[14:11] <junderwood> tracked yesterday's flight half way across Germany from UK using a discone
[14:11] <costyn> junderwood: one like in the pic?
[14:12] <junderwood> They all look the same!
[14:12] <fsphil> my poor 570km :)
[14:12] <costyn> hehe ok :)
[14:12] <junderwood> Yours looks a little bigger than mine (Watson WMD-50)
[14:12] <costyn> if it still works that would make it easy; no need to buy an antenna; just have to find out where the coax goes
[14:13] <Laurenceb_> APEX last position is 6th in world record distance :P
[14:13] <costyn> do they have a useful lifespan?
[14:15] <griffonbot> @raivisr: RT @Arduinoist: APEX Alpha Hi-Alt Balloon disappears over Eastern Europe: http://t.co/y97Qa0E9 #apexhab #ukhas [http://twitter.com/raivisr/status/128112257396772864]
[14:15] <griffonbot> @raivisr: RT @apexhab: @hackaday We now need HAM users in Russia #apexhab #ukhas [http://twitter.com/raivisr/status/128112281862160384]
[14:15] <nosebleedKT> fsphil r u there?
[14:15] GW8RAK (~chatzilla@host-78-150-134-231.as13285.net) joined #highaltitude.
[14:15] <fsphil> relatively nosebleedKT
[14:16] adnbr (5c16b6c6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.22.182.198) joined #highaltitude.
[14:16] <Laurenceb_> hes not all there
[14:17] <nosebleedKT> http://imagebin.org/180430
[14:18] <griffonbot> @DiJuM: RT @apexhab: @hackaday We now need HAM users in Russia #apexhab #ukhas [http://twitter.com/DiJuM/status/128113121645694977]
[14:18] <danielsaul> Should probably submit the distances etc. for APEX to arhab then
[14:19] <nosebleedKT> fsphil
[14:19] <nosebleedKT> look that circuit please
[14:19] <priyesh> danielsaul: we're 20th on arhab
[14:19] <priyesh> we will be
[14:19] <Laurenceb_> if it burst about 10am UK time this morning its probably a little over the boarder in Western Russia
[14:20] <danielsaul> Are Western Russians nice people? :P
[14:20] <griffonbot> @technofobes: RT @apexhab: An urgent call for HAM users in Poland or Belarus to help us track #apexhab alpha. All RTs appreciated! DETAILS: http://t.c ... [http://twitter.com/technofobes/status/128113531760558080]
[14:20] <Laurenceb_> http://www.arhab.org/#
[14:20] <priyesh> danielsaul: 8th for distance
[14:20] <Laurenceb_> looks like 8th to me on that record
[14:21] <fsphil> what's it do nosebleedKT?
[14:21] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[14:21] <nosebleedKT> its a radio wired to arduino
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[14:21] <priyesh> 13th for flight time
[14:21] <nosebleedKT> arduino has program to demodulate afsk signals
[14:21] <nosebleedKT> BertOS
[14:22] <nosebleedKT> from this OS i got it.
[14:22] <nosebleedKT> and it needs that circuit from radio to arduion
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[14:23] <griffonbot> @technofobes: An urgent call for HAM users in Poland or Belarus to help us track #apexhab alpha. All RTs appreciated! DETAILS: http://t.co/6QJLtAIb #ukhas [http://twitter.com/technofobes/status/128114248487403520]
[14:23] <nosebleedKT> my first question is that because i use only for receiving I dont need to implement the "PTT" and "MIC" wiring.
[14:23] <nosebleedKT> right?
[14:23] <fsphil> what are you going to do with it?
[14:24] <nosebleedKT> fsphil it decodes aprs
[14:24] <DiJuMx> See you later.
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[14:24] <nosebleedKT> fsphil: http://imagebin.org/180429
[14:24] <fsphil> neat
[14:24] <fsphil> I have the same antenna :)
[14:25] <nosebleedKT> :P
[14:25] <nosebleedKT> fsphil i need your help
[14:25] <nosebleedKT> can you answer my 1st question?
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[14:26] <griffonbot> @ryanlaws: RT @apexhab: An urgent call for HAM users in Poland or Belarus to help us track #apexhab alpha. All RTs appreciated! DETAILS: http://t.c ... [http://twitter.com/ryanlaws/status/128114981391708160]
[14:27] <fsphil> nosebleedKT, probably
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[14:27] <nosebleedKT> next question is about VIN
[14:27] <nosebleedKT> it shows VIN wired to VCC
[14:27] <Lunar_Lander> damn
[14:28] <nosebleedKT> and VCC goes to a resistor
[14:28] <Lunar_Lander> I know someone from Poland
[14:28] <Lunar_Lander> but he doesn't know any radio operators
[14:28] <nosebleedKT> i need to give 5v from arduino to its VIN pin?
[14:29] <fsphil> the two resistors are for biasing
[14:29] <Lunar_Lander> any apex people here?
[14:29] <Lunar_Lander> danielsaul, jonsowman?
[14:29] <fsphil> so yea, probably 5v if it's designed to run from an arduino board
[14:30] <Lunar_Lander> priyesh: ?
[14:31] <priyesh> hello
[14:31] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[14:31] <nosebleedKT> arduino port prints
[14:31] <nosebleedKT> == BeRTOS AVR/Arduino KISS TNC
[14:31] <nosebleedKT> == RX/TX Version 0.02, Build 223
[14:31] <nosebleedKT> == Starting.
[14:31] <nosebleedKT> but after this i dont get any aprs :(
[14:31] <griffonbot> @StaverousC: RT @apexhab: An urgent call for HAM users in Poland or Belarus to help us track #apexhab alpha. All RTs appreciated! DETAILS: http://t.c ... [http://twitter.com/StaverousC/status/128116419207499777]
[14:31] <Lunar_Lander> priyesh : would it be possible for you to come into the orbiter chat? http://orbithangar.com/orbiterirc.php
[14:32] <Lunar_Lander> there is someone who knows a russian ham
[14:32] <priyesh> give me a second
[14:32] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[14:32] <Laurenceb_> im guessing landing near Oryol Russia
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[14:32] <priyesh> Lunar_Lander: done
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[14:33] <NigelMoby> I'm also guessing the batteries are well and truly dead
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[14:35] Nick change: Jeeves__ -> chadiousrexxus
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[14:36] <LazyLeopard> Hmmm... The tweet lives on... ;)
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[14:36] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "[UKHAS] Apex Alpha tracking in numbers"
[14:37] <griffonbot> @Nausk: RT @apexhab: An urgent call for HAM users in Poland or Belarus to help us track #apexhab alpha. All RTs appreciated! DETAILS: http://t.c ... [http://twitter.com/Nausk/status/128117819467509760]
[14:38] <jonsowman> Upu: interesting email :)
[14:38] <fsphil> I need a bigger yagi ;)
[14:38] <priyesh> Upu: yes. great email :)
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[14:41] <griffonbot> @matthewrwright: RT @apexhab: An urgent call for HAM users in Poland or Belarus to help us track #apexhab alpha. All RTs appreciated! DETAILS: http://t.c ... [http://twitter.com/matthewrwright/status/128118753471901696]
[14:41] <am4d> soooo, record not broken...
[14:42] <fsphil> not the altitude record anyway
[14:43] <priyesh> many other records broken however :P
[14:43] <Upu> indeed
[14:43] <griffonbot> @ben_p: RT @apexhab: An urgent call for HAM users in Poland or Belarus to help us track #apexhab alpha. All RTs appreciated! DETAILS: http://t.c ... [http://twitter.com/ben_p/status/128119476225982465]
[14:44] <Upu> and this is the trouble with Twitter.. :)
[14:44] <Upu> you can't stop it
[14:45] <Lunar_Lander> priyesh : there's a question for you in orbiter
[14:45] <priyesh> ok
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[14:48] <danielsaul> back
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[14:54] <jonsowman> Upu: i can quiet griffonbot if you want
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[14:57] <griffonbot> @DarrenGriffin: RT @apexhab: An urgent call for HAM users in Poland or Belarus to help us track #apexhab alpha. All RTs appreciated! DETAILS: http://t.c ... [http://twitter.com/DarrenGriffin/status/128122860794417152]
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[14:59] <Upu> doesn't bother me
[14:59] <Upu> however I doubt its a) still up if it is b) the batteries are still ok or c) its not going to be in or about Poland any more
[15:01] <jonsowman> agreed on all points
[15:01] <nosebleedKT> fsphil: http://imagebin.org/180438
[15:01] <priyesh> agreed here too.. the tweets are pointless. it would be better if russians began walking around the country side looking for it :P
[15:02] <nosebleedKT> fsphil: is that correct?
[15:02] <nosebleedKT> fsphil: according to the circuit i sent you
[15:05] <earthshine> I am going to bet it will be found in the Ukraine
[15:06] <Upu> yep
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[15:13] <russss> Ukraine is large and mostly empty
[15:14] <russss> I could imagine a payload lying there for months before being found.
[15:14] <nosebleedKT> fsphil: stop getting laid and help me out!
[15:15] <costyn> nosebleedKT: lol
[15:15] <steve|m> russss: hopefully it didn't land in prypjat :P
[15:16] <costyn> steve|m: :) I've been there, quite interesting daytrip
[15:16] <russss> yeah plenty of tourists there
[15:16] <russss> I'm planning on going next year
[15:17] <nosebleedKT> yes chernobil is a good site :)
[15:17] <costyn> russss: well worth it. each year there are less buildings safe to go into. everthing is being overgrown by vegitation
[15:17] <costyn> so better go sooner than later
[15:19] <costyn> actually if it would have continued on it's last bearing, it would have passed over Pripyat
[15:20] <griffonbot> @Mojavi_8: RT @apexhab: An urgent call for HAM users in Poland or Belarus to help us track #apexhab alpha. All RTs appreciated! DETAILS: http://t.c ... [http://twitter.com/Mojavi_8/status/128128645700132865]
[15:22] <nosebleedKT> ping Randomskk
[15:23] <nosebleedKT> Randomskk: I don't want to bother you but fsphil is not answering
[15:23] <nosebleedKT> Randomskk r u there?
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[15:42] <costyn> nosebleedKT: you sure konw how to kill the conversation :P
[15:42] <nosebleedKT> whaaat?
[15:43] <nosebleedKT> ahh about chernobil :P
[15:44] <costyn> nosebleedKT: no I meant that once you asked your questions, nobody was talking any more ... it's a phrase 'kill the conversation' :)
[15:44] <costyn> nosebleedKT: meant as a joke ;)
[15:44] <nosebleedKT> lol
[15:44] <nosebleedKT> could be
[15:44] <nosebleedKT> :P
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[15:45] <nosebleedKT> i believe the other thing. that this moment everyone is getting laid
[15:46] <Lunar_Lander> hey Dan-K2VOL
[15:46] <Lunar_Lander> nosebleedKT : yeah, I took a nap
[15:46] <nosebleedKT> Lunar_Lander: dont lie to me!
[15:46] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[15:47] <Lunar_Lander> I mean
[15:47] <Lunar_Lander> my gf is at the baltic sea at the moment
[15:47] <Lunar_Lander> :D
[15:47] <nosebleedKT> i can hardly believe you
[15:48] <Dan-K2VOL> hi lunar_lander
[15:49] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[16:04] <griffonbot> @jubeor: RT @apexhab: An urgent call for HAM users in Poland or Belarus to help us track #apexhab alpha. All RTs appreciated! DETAILS: http://t.c ... [http://twitter.com/jubeor/status/128139642489933824]
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[16:06] <priyesh> hey all. graphs and tracks from alpha's flight are up: http://gallery.apexhab.org/index.php/Apex-Alpha/Graphs-and-Tracks
[16:08] <Lunar_Lander> yay
[16:10] <Lunar_Lander> priyesh
[16:10] <Lunar_Lander> just calculated great circle distance myself
[16:10] <Lunar_Lander> L=1342.2 km
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[16:15] <Lunar_Lander> 1343.95km
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[16:19] <priyesh> i got 1347
[16:19] <priyesh> using google earth
[16:19] <priyesh> :P
[16:21] <Dan-K2VOL> priyesh I would recommend noting on the data that the internal temperature was not the temperature of the batteries. They will hold heat much longer than the circuit board
[16:22] <Dan-K2VOL> nice graphing
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[16:25] <number10> nice graphs priyesh - would be good to see a plot of internal temperature and battery voltage
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[16:30] <fsphil> nosebleedKT, no idea.I can't make sense of that picture :)
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[16:33] <priyesh> i'll make a int temp and battery voltage graph later number10
[16:33] <number10> thats cool
[16:33] <Dan-K2VOL> number10 do remember that the temperature shown as internal will not be the actual battery temperature
[16:33] <number10> yes
[16:33] <Dan-K2VOL> cool
[16:34] <priyesh> Dan-K2VOL: the board was right next to the batteries
[16:34] <priyesh> so not a /huge/ difference
[16:34] <jonsowman> well
[16:34] <Dan-K2VOL> unless the sensor was contacting the cells, it may be a huge difference
[16:34] <jonsowman> indeed
[16:34] <priyesh> true
[16:34] <Dan-K2VOL> convection ceases to be effective
[16:34] <Dan-K2VOL> at those air pressures
[16:34] <priyesh> we could have a third sensor next time
[16:34] <fogger> Does anybody know whether the battery voltage will increase after they warm up again?
[16:34] <Dan-K2VOL> that would be ideal
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[16:34] <Dan-K2VOL> it will
[16:34] <priyesh> which is in contact with the batteries with some goo
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[16:35] <jonsowman> priyesh: i want to try the same launch again but with an extra 500g neck lift
[16:35] <priyesh> jonsowman: same here
[16:35] <jonsowman> how quickly can you get another one soldered up? ;)
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[16:36] <priyesh> jonsowman: give me a week?
[16:36] <jonsowman> hehe
[16:36] <priyesh> lol
[16:38] <Dan-K2VOL> want to actually get higher?
[16:38] <priyesh> maybe... (yes)
[16:38] <Dan-K2VOL> best launch earlier in the day ;-)
[16:38] <jonsowman> heh
[16:38] <fsphil> PRHAL is in the air
[16:38] <jonsowman> easier said than done Dan-K2VOL
[16:38] <Dan-K2VOL> well, I mean I know how launches get delayed,
[16:38] <priyesh> jonsowman: i think we can launch maybe 1 hr earlier
[16:39] <jonsowman> yeah
[16:39] <Dan-K2VOL> but there's no sense in launching for high records if you're going to have the sun set during ascent
[16:39] <jonsowman> true
[16:40] <Dan-K2VOL> if you want a constant ascent rate anyway
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[16:42] <fsphil> 6.4m/s, they're definitely not floating this one :)
[16:42] <Dan-K2VOL> wooo
[16:43] <jonsowman> what envelope?
[16:43] <Lunar_Lander> OK I first decoded the balloon when it was 260km away
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[16:43] <Dan-K2VOL> nice Lunar_Lander, good to hear you heard it
[16:43] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[16:43] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[16:43] <Lunar_Lander> but I am afraid that somehow we reached the limits of latex
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[16:44] <ourkie> Where is the balloon now.....the tracker stopped in Poland last night.
[16:44] <fsphil> you're first tracking Lunar_Lander?
[16:44] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[16:44] <fsphil> nice :)
[16:44] <Lunar_Lander> ourkie : extrapolation shows it must be in Kazahkstan
[16:44] <Lunar_Lander> if it hadn't burst
[16:44] <ourkie> Good Lord!
[16:44] <Lunar_Lander> yeah fsphil :)
[16:45] <Dan-K2VOL> it's too bad we have no weather forecasts for that high
[16:45] <ourkie> I sure wish those guys luck!
[16:45] <fsphil> yea, I've lost a balloon on yorkshire and never saw it again. kazahkstan is a *bit* trickier :)
[16:45] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[16:45] <fsphil> in*
[16:47] <ourkie> If it is that far I wonder if the US military in the area has a location on it? There is an airbase in the country that the US uses.
[16:48] <Dan-K2VOL> it's unlikely to be that far, it will burst within about 6 hours after sunrise due to UV exposure and/or addition of lift by solar heating, if it survived the night.
[16:48] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[16:49] <SpeedEvil> http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150889667760131&set=a.10150889667630131.754597.353851465130&type=1&theater
[16:49] <Dan-K2VOL> niiice
[16:49] <SpeedEvil> They're doing space right.
[16:49] <SpeedEvil> Or at least several orders of magnitude more right than NASA and ESA.
[16:49] <Dan-K2VOL> I agree
[16:50] <SpeedEvil> Is that the flown one at the back?
[16:51] <Lunar_Lander> looks like it
[16:52] <Zuph> Have they announced a new "official" date for launch yet?
[16:53] <Zuph> Last I checked, it was still on the docket for early November.
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[16:55] <wb8elk> anyone in Europe want to try talking on 10 meters?....
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[16:55] <fsphil> I was just on it wb8elk :)
[16:55] <fsphil> 500mw,.. no luck
[16:55] <wb8elk> it's wide open to the UK
[16:55] <wb8elk> want to try again?
[16:56] <fsphil> sure .. pick a spot
[16:56] <wb8elk> pick a frequency and I'll listen for you
[16:56] <wb8elk> CW or SSB
[16:56] <fsphil> we where hearing FM stations in new york earlier
[16:56] <fsphil> 28.460 clear there?
[16:56] <wb8elk> I'm about to test a 10 meter balloon payload....I'll be flying it next Saturday so you may be able to hear it there
[16:56] <wb8elk> let me check
[16:57] <fsphil> oooh that'll be sweet
[16:57] <fsphil> I'll get back my distance record ;-)
[16:57] <daveake> :)
[16:57] <wb8elk> try 28.450
[16:57] <fsphil> if only it was 434 mhz and 10mw .... ;)
[16:57] <fsphil> I can hear a distance station there wb8elk
[16:57] <wb8elk> what's your call?
[16:58] <fsphil> 2I0VIM
[16:58] <daveake> fsphil your record probably feels a bit like Man Utd. Beaten 6-1 :p
[16:58] <wb8elk> can you go above 28.500?
[16:58] <fsphil> wb8elk, indeed
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[16:59] <wb8elk> pick a spot above 28.500...it's quieter up there
[16:59] <fsphil> 28.635
[16:59] <wb8elk> Good spot....I'll call you with 80 watts to start with....I'll transmit in about 30 secs
[16:59] <fsphil> wait, hear someone there
[16:59] <wb8elk> ok
[17:00] <fsphil> 28.6375
[17:00] <wb8elk> we'll find a clear spot eventually
[17:00] <wb8elk> ok...I'll try that
[17:00] <Lunar_Lander> hello wb8elk
[17:00] <Lunar_Lander> yesterday, I tracked a balloon for the first time
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[17:01] <fsphil> you called wb8elk ?
[17:01] <wb8elk> did you hear me?
[17:02] <fsphil> nothing
[17:02] <wb8elk> USB 38.6375
[17:02] <wb8elk> 28.6375
[17:02] <fsphil> yep
[17:02] <wb8elk> let me try again
[17:02] <fsphil> just noise
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[17:02] <fsphil> there's something there but it's well in the noise
[17:03] <fsphil> yea, I can hear a voice
[17:03] <wb8elk> guess the band isn't quite right to you...I hear Ireland, Germany and Slovenia coming in
[17:03] <fsphil> can't make it out
[17:03] <wb8elk> I'll try calling again
[17:04] <fsphil> typical that lol, everyone around me can probably hear you
[17:04] <fsphil> I'll try calling, but you won't hear it :)
[17:04] <fsphil> ach, battery ran out
[17:04] <fsphil> wanna try again later?
[17:05] <wb8elk> did you hear anything?
[17:05] <fsphil> definitely something but faint
[17:05] <wb8elk> 10m has been wide open to Europe every day for the past week or two
[17:05] <fsphil> It's packed today
[17:05] <fsphil> I was very impressed at hearing the new york repeater
[17:05] <wb8elk> My balloon transmitter will be on 29.450 MHz and will transmit on FM and USB at the same time
[17:06] <wb8elk> But I may try it lower in frequency with direct FSK...working on it this weekend.
[17:06] <wb8elk> It will be 1 watt output
[17:06] <fsphil> that might be enough
[17:06] <fsphil> I'm getting a dedicated 10m antenna next week
[17:06] <wb8elk> DominoEX, RTTY and CW
[17:06] <wb8elk> The WSPR signals which are mostly 5 watts are coming through from Europe, Australia and South Africa every day
[17:07] <fred2890> does someone has been able to track Alpha balloon this morning?
[17:07] <wb8elk> I thought they were going to launch yesterday....I haven't checked today yet
[17:07] <fsphil> brb, gotta get the ft857 out of the attic. then I can try a bit more power on 10m
[17:07] <wb8elk> did they fly this morning?
[17:07] <fred2890> the whole night, they lost contact near poland
[17:07] <fred2890> i think
[17:08] <wb8elk> what size balloon were they flying?
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[17:09] <priyesh> wb8elk: H2000
[17:09] <wb8elk> I guess they managed to make it float then
[17:09] <wb8elk> what was their ascent rate?
[17:09] <wb8elk> and payload weight?
[17:09] <wb8elk> Those Hwoyee balloons are tough
[17:10] <griffonbot> @Atomriot: RT @apexhab: An urgent call for HAM users in Poland or Belarus to help us track #apexhab alpha. All RTs appreciated! DETAILS: http://t.c ... [http://twitter.com/Atomriot/status/128156290307457025]
[17:11] <wb8elk> Spacenear is showing the balloon in Cambridge
[17:12] <wb8elk> When was it last heard?
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[17:13] <priyesh> poland
[17:13] <Lunar_Lander> at 11:41 pm UTC
[17:13] <priyesh> at 11:41
[17:13] <wb8elk> what was the altitude at the time?
[17:13] <priyesh> refresh spacenearus.. it's being weird
[17:13] <Lunar_Lander> 36304 m
[17:13] <fred2890> 36304m
[17:15] <fogger> Why don't you try and make use of the remaining power in the batteries and turn the ntx2 into a simple beacon? The gps dropped out at 3.4v, but the ntx2 can still operate down to 2.9v. You only need to send out something like a 5 second tone every 60 seconds.
[17:15] <wb8elk> what time did they launch it?
[17:16] <wb8elk> the only problem is that when lithium batteries drop...they drop fast....so you might not get much extra time with that low of a voltage margin
[17:17] <fsphil> PRHAL is about 16km now
[17:18] <fsphil> still 6.2m/s ascent
[17:19] <fogger> It just depends on how much power the beacon would use. It was just a thought.
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[17:21] <fogger> Looking at the datasheet, at 40 the battery still has about 25% capacity left.
[17:23] <wb8elk> what battery did they use?
[17:23] <griffonbot> @richthelandlord: RT @apexhab: An urgent call for HAM users in Poland or Belarus to help us track #apexhab alpha. All RTs appreciated! DETAILS: http://t.c ... [http://twitter.com/richthelandlord/status/128159628096831488]
[17:23] <fogger> I thought that it was an energiser lithium.
[17:23] <wb8elk> I use the Energiser L91 lithiums all the time
[17:24] <fred2890> wich team/university launched PHRAL?
[17:24] <wb8elk> And have had them at -45 deg all night long
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[17:25] <wb8elk> gotta head out for lunch....bye for now...hope they have success in hearing the beacon on Alpha
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[17:27] <fsphil> there's a beacon?
[17:28] <jonsowman> there isn't
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[17:30] <fogger> I was just looking at the application manual. It's depends on whether you're using 3 or 4 calls. With 4 cells you'll flatten the batteries before reaching 3.4v. But with the 3 cells that alpha used, at low temperatures there's still about 25% capacity left at 3.4v.
[17:32] <jonsowman> very interesting fogger
[17:33] <fogger> Somebody could have been having a foxhunt in russia right now. :-)
[17:33] <NigelMoby> Ah but the vreg dropout would cut power b4 that
[17:33] <fred2890> for how long can those battery last with only 25% left?
[17:34] <jonsowman> NigelMoby: the terminal voltage will have come back up as they warmed
[17:34] <fogger> I'm just looking at the temp graph here. http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/lithiuml91l92_appman.pdf
[17:34] <jonsowman> fred2890: depends on many things
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[17:34] <NigelMoby> Jon, good point.
[17:34] <NigelMoby> Hey Dan
[17:34] <Dan-K2VOL> hey
[17:34] <NigelMoby> Dan...
[17:35] <NigelMoby> Can clear mylar hold he?
[17:35] <Dan-K2VOL> sure
[17:35] <fsphil> he who shall not be named?
[17:35] <Dan-K2VOL> haha
[17:35] <fogger> The beacon could be turned on by the vreg dropout, and just use a 555 or 556 to generate the beacon.
[17:35] <NigelMoby> Lol Phil
[17:35] <fsphil> sorry, watching harry potter
[17:35] <Lunar_Lander> ROFL
[17:35] <jonsowman> hahah
[17:36] <jonsowman> fogger: true, but backup beacons add mass
[17:36] <Dan-K2VOL> if you're looking for materials, look for biaxially-oriented polyester, which is the actual description of the duPont brand name Mylar
[17:36] <fogger> I don't know how practical that would be though.
[17:36] <Lunar_Lander> oh man this channel is so good, even after dinner on a dull sunday evening
[17:36] <jonsowman> the idea behind this was an altitude record, getting it back is not the priority
[17:36] <jonsowman> although it would of course be nice :)
[17:36] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[17:36] <fogger> I understand. It was just food for thought.
[17:37] <Lunar_Lander> as I said earlier jonsowman I think we have seen the latex limit now
[17:37] <Lunar_Lander> with Horus 16 and Alpha
[17:37] <jonsowman> fogger: oh definitely
[17:37] <jonsowman> james is very sold on the Hellscreiber beacons
[17:37] <jonsowman> and for good reason
[17:37] <jonsowman> Lunar_Lander: I'm not entirely convinced
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[17:38] <priyesh> we don't really know the latex limit as we don't know where alpha landed
[17:38] <jonsowman> wasn't Darkside's altitude breaker a 1600g?
[17:38] <fsphil> was
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[17:38] <jonsowman> fsphil: cool
[17:38] <fsphil> why I got one lol
[17:38] <jonsowman> so if the 2000g is filled correctly...
[17:38] <jonsowman> potential to go higher. perhaps. who knows
[17:38] <Dan-K2VOL> ms7821 nice domain
[17:38] <jonsowman> more experiments needed
[17:38] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[17:39] <fsphil> definitely, we need more science!!
[17:39] <Lunar_Lander> we need a pressure and temperature probe in the balloon
[17:39] <jonsowman> absolutely fsphil
[17:39] <Dan-K2VOL> MOAR SCIENCE!
[17:39] <Lunar_Lander> and we need to construct ZPs
[17:39] <fsphil> and LASERS!!!
[17:39] <fsphil> oh
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[17:39] <Lunar_Lander> maybe ZPs can make it
[17:39] <fsphil> wait, maybe not those
[17:39] <jonsowman> lasers are always cool
[17:39] <Dan-K2VOL> ZPs for which lunar_lander?
[17:39] <Lunar_Lander> altitude
[17:40] <NigelMoby> Optical coms ftw
[17:40] <Lunar_Lander> the 40-50 k range
[17:40] <Lunar_Lander> *km
[17:40] <Dan-K2VOL> I wonder if you could use a DVD burning laser for bursting a balloon for cutdown
[17:40] <fsphil> oooooooooooh NigelMoby, I could do that on the foil launch
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[17:40] <jonsowman> Dan-K2VOL: i expect so
[17:40] <NigelMoby> I knew u were gonna say that LOL
[17:40] <Dan-K2VOL> hehe I'm working on trying to track with a telescope
[17:40] <fsphil> I was wondering what to do with that spare LED on meganut
[17:41] <fsphil> I'm trying that with the foil balloon too
[17:41] <fsphil> want to see how far I can track it
[17:41] <fsphil> with a small refractor
[17:41] <Lunar_Lander> and the 40-50 km range needs ZP balloons
[17:42] <fsphil> or a material that stretches infinitely :)
[17:42] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm Lunar Lander, zps are very difficult to do for high altitudes
[17:43] <Dan-K2VOL> they have to be massive
[17:43] <Dan-K2VOL> well not massive, voluminous
[17:43] <fsphil> I think the most activity now will be in duration
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[17:43] <fsphil> I've got a chocolate cookie for the first person to circumnavigate the globe
[17:44] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[17:44] <Lunar_Lander> YAY fsphil
[17:44] <Dan-K2VOL> put my name on it Phil!
[17:44] <griffonbot> @apexhab: Data from #apexhab #Alpha published: http://t.co/xOkA92BI #ukhas [http://twitter.com/apexhab/status/128164848994484224]
[17:44] <fsphil> hurry up or it'll go soft!
[17:44] <Lunar_Lander> ROFL
[17:44] <Dan-K2VOL> (but might want to make it eraseable)
[17:45] <fsphil> PRHAL is at 24km
[17:46] <Dan-K2VOL> any further info from rocketboy on stretch tests?
[17:46] <fred2890> is PHRAL designed to break altitude record?
[17:46] <NigelMoby> Don't think so
[17:46] <jonsowman> Dan-K2VOL: benoxley is planning some
[17:46] <Dan-K2VOL> it won't at that ascent rate
[17:47] <Dan-K2VOL> nice
[17:47] <RocketBoy> sorry dan - I have been a bit tardy with the video
[17:47] <Dan-K2VOL> no problem rocketboy, I was just wondering about some details that don't need video
[17:47] <priyesh> is the predictor turned off on spacenearus
[17:47] <RocketBoy> I'm thinking I need two cameras next time - one to capture the front-back expand
[17:47] <Dan-K2VOL> Receivers are unknown on PRHAL? where's the data coming from?
[17:48] <fsphil> think it's their own receiver, they just haven't setup dl-fldigi properly
[17:48] <fsphil> fred2890, not sure actually. it's going up too fast to get a really high altitude
[17:48] <fsphil> suspect it will burst soon
[17:49] <RocketBoy> Dan-K2VOL: the interesting thing is the stretch - you can see a defenate reduction in pressure as the envelope stretches on its own
[17:49] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[17:49] <Lunar_Lander> PRHAL doesn't work
[17:49] <Lunar_Lander> there are no updates
[17:50] <fsphil> it's a bit patchy Lunar_Lander
[17:50] <priyesh> is PRHAL still working?
[17:50] <priyesh> okay
[17:50] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[17:50] <Dan-K2VOL> interesting rocketboy!
[17:50] <fsphil> not sure if it's reception or their internet connection
[17:50] <Dan-K2VOL> were you using air or helium?
[17:51] <RocketBoy> Dan-K2VOL: i'm reasonably sure it wasn't a leak
[17:51] <RocketBoy> helium
[17:51] <RocketBoy> this is over the course of a minute or so
[17:52] <RocketBoy> what I need is something to *very* slowly increase pressure - say over an hour
[17:52] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[17:52] Topic changed on #highaltitude by jonsowman!jonsowman@kryten.hexoc.com: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk
[17:52] #highaltitude: mode change '-o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[17:52] <Dan-K2VOL> were you able to measure lift? awesome that you used helium
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[17:53] <RocketBoy> na - I was planning that but it proved to challenging for a quick test
[17:53] <RocketBoy> I think the way to do that is detach the fill tube and measure
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[17:54] <RocketBoy> need some form of micro quick connect valve
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[17:55] <RocketBoy> I think if I left the fill tube in that it would affect the lift readings too much
[17:55] <griffonbot> Received email: Priyesh Patel "[UKHAS] A Huge Thanks [Apex Alpha]"
[17:55] <RocketBoy> it would be a lot easier on a bigger balloon
[17:56] <priyesh> We'd just like to say thanks to everyone who helped out yesterday. See the email we just sent for more details.
[17:56] <priyesh> :)
[17:57] <Dan-K2VOL> rocketboy I think you're right, a disconnect may be necessary
[17:57] <Dan-K2VOL> what's the precision on your scale?
[17:57] <RocketBoy> 0.1g
[17:57] <Dan-K2VOL> oh wonderful
[17:58] <fsphil> Dan-K2VOL, what's that launch they're talking about on the GPSL list?
[17:58] <fsphil> sounds like it's near the 40km mark
[17:59] <griffonbot> @apexhab: A HUGE thanks to those who tracked #apexhab Alpha yesterday. Read: http://t.co/dadsVGa7 #ukhas [http://twitter.com/apexhab/status/128168625390632960]
[17:59] <Dan-K2VOL> let me go check fsphil, I only look at that list occasionally
[17:59] <RocketBoy> the way I was planning on measuring it was to have a weight on a line from the balloon - put the weight on the sales and then measure the reduction in weight as the lift pulls up
[17:59] <Dan-K2VOL> perfect
[18:00] <fsphil> holy crap Dan-K2VOL, it's at 41447m
[18:00] <fsphil> just checked aprs.fi
[18:00] <NigelMoby> Uhoh
[18:00] <fsphil> callsign K6RPT-11
[18:00] <Dan-K2VOL> likely a mark caviezel zp from the looks of it
[18:01] <Dan-K2VOL> oh wait, looking at the wrong one
[18:02] <fogger> http://www.californianearspaceproject.com/photos.K6RPT-11.html
[18:03] <fogger> Thats an earlier flight
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[18:08] <Lunar_Lander> does anybody know them?
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[18:13] <fsphil> 41619m
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[18:14] <fsphil> guess that means Darkside is now #3 :)
[18:14] <fogger> But if you look at the early packets, they already show an altitude of 36526m
[18:15] <fsphil> fogger, aprs.fi by default only shows the last hour. change the drop-down to 1-day
[18:15] <fogger> ok. thanks
[18:15] <griffonbot> @tctovsli: RT @apexhab: An urgent call for HAM users in Poland or Belarus to help us track #apexhab alpha. All RTs appreciated! DETAILS: http://t.c ... [http://twitter.com/tctovsli/status/128172685757911042]
[18:15] <fsphil> we should track this in spacenear.us
[18:16] <fsphil> aprs.fi is no fun :)
[18:18] <fsphil> PRHAL is nearly down
[18:20] <fsphil> no new telemetry from the aprs one
[18:21] <fred2890> i think PHRAL is already down, based on descent speed and time from the last update..
[18:21] <fsphil> yea
[18:23] <fsphil> well someone got the altitude this weekend anyway :)
[18:23] <fsphil> I wonder what setup they're using. the website is vague
[18:25] <fsphil> 1600g H2 (Sunday 10-23) at 7:30 a.m. (PST)
[18:25] <fsphil> Hydrogen!
[18:25] <fsphil> that explains it
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[18:26] <NigelMoby> Meh h2 is cheating :p
[18:26] <jonsowman> fsphil: hwoyee?
[18:26] <fsphil> it doesn't say jonsowman, but the size suggests it
[18:26] <fsphil> and altitude
[18:27] <jonsowman> yeah
[18:28] <fsphil> still no new data
[18:28] <fsphil> it must have burst
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[18:30] <fsphil> beats the lockheed martin guys by about 450m
[18:30] <NigelMoby> Shame :p
[18:30] <fsphil> lol
[18:30] <Lunar_Lander> hm but they are amateurs right?
[18:31] <Lunar_Lander> those guys who are flying now
[18:31] <fsphil> they seem to be
[18:34] <fsphil> it's no fun without them being on here or in twitter :)
[18:36] <NigelMoby> My head hurts :(
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[18:41] <fsphil> still got the flu?
[18:41] gb73dx (gb73d@81-178-178-174.dsl.pipex.com) joined #highaltitude.
[18:42] <NigelMoby> Yup, and I don't like it :(
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[18:43] <fsphil> who does
[18:43] <fsphil> we need a cure
[18:43] <NigelMoby> Yes pls!
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[18:49] <Lunar_Lander> back
[18:49] <fsphil> I've been expecting you Mr.Lander
[18:49] Action: fsphil pets cat
[18:50] <daveake_> :)
[18:51] <daveake_> Lander. Lunar Lander.
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[18:54] <daveake_> The man with the golden payload
[18:54] <daveake_> Well it'd make a change from pink :
[18:54] <daveake_> :)
[18:56] <Lunar_Lander> LOL
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[19:03] <Lunar_Lander> so what can we do with the begun evening?
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[19:05] Action: fsphil is doing more hacking on the hound
[19:09] <danielsaul> fsphil: what is habhound btw? Meant to ask that yesterday
[19:09] <fsphil> it's like spacenear.us, only a program on the laptop
[19:09] <fsphil> a lot faster
[19:09] <fsphil> can cache maps for offline use
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[19:11] <fsphil> I started it because spacenear.us is almost impossible to use when mobile
[19:11] <fsphil> everyone else had a better idea of where my payload was than I did :)
[19:12] <danielsaul> Ah - thought so, I've been planning to do that for some while as a update to our apex software, packet handler
[19:12] <danielsaul> won't bother now then :P
[19:12] <fsphil> lol
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[19:12] <fsphil> at the moment its reading all the data from habitat
[19:13] <danielsaul> Yep
[19:13] <fsphil> I'll add direct gps and dl-fldigi at some point
[19:13] <fsphil> mostly needs a cleanup then I can push it to github
[19:14] <fsphil> there's still some thread weirdness going on, though I think it may be a problem in the map control
[19:14] <danielsaul> Well, our packethandler thing still grabs data from view.php I think - was built for APEX I several years ago - grabs data from dl-fldigi through a tcp port and then plots onto an ancient version of mappoint :P
[19:14] <danielsaul> Mmm
[19:15] <danielsaul> Well, can't wait to see it :)
[19:15] <danielsaul> brb
[19:15] <x-f> speaking about maps and data, this looks cool - http://www.californianearspaceproject.com/images/K6RPT-11/K6RPT-11%20APRS%20924.png
[19:15] <fsphil> ooh
[19:15] <danielsaul> pretty-ish
[19:15] <danielsaul> :)
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[19:16] Action: fsphil scribbles onto the TODO list ;)
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[19:18] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:18] <Lunar_Lander> XD
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[19:18] <Lunar_Lander> btw danielsaul now that Alpha flew, what is the status of Apex III?
[19:18] <Lunar_Lander> hi NigelMoby
[19:18] <NigeyS> hi kev
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
[19:19] <NigeyS> not bad kev, u?
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> same here thanks
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:20] <danielsaul> Lunar_Lander: We'll make an Alpha v2 with added expansion ports, an SD card socket that works etc. and that will be the "core module" of APEX III
[19:21] <Upu> I like that x-f
[19:21] <Matt_soton> so like mine danielsaul ? :P
[19:21] <Upu> can we make spacenear.us do that
[19:21] <danielsaul> We'll then let other members of the team make other modules contating gas sensors, radiation sensors etc. which plug into that
[19:22] <Matt_soton> it would be nice to have a standard balloon interconnect
[19:22] <danielsaul> Hmm?
[19:22] <Matt_soton> so different modules work on everyones balloon
[19:23] <Matt_soton> so like a 10 pin header with power on two pins, i2c on another, and the rest gpio
[19:23] <danielsaul> Oh, yeh :)
[19:24] <fsphil> arballouno
[19:24] <danielsaul> Really want to find something interesting to put on APEX III that hasnt been done before... not sure I'm going to find anything though
[19:24] <danielsaul> fsphil: haha
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> cool danielsaul
[19:25] <Lunar_Lander> what else will Apex III do
[19:25] <Lunar_Lander> ?
[19:25] <fsphil> walk the dog
[19:26] <danielsaul> Only the usuals at the moment...
[19:26] <danielsaul> Walking the dog may take a bit more effort :P
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> will it still have the two geiger counters?
[19:26] <fsphil> I still like to do optical comms
[19:26] <danielsaul> We're not putting geiger counters on
[19:27] <danielsaul> We've flown them twice, and both times they've cut out at the same altitude/pressure
[19:27] <Matt_soton> how about solid state particle detection this time
[19:27] <danielsaul> We're having a version of this: http://www.maxim-ic.com/app-notes/index.mvp/id/2236
[19:28] <danielsaul> I think
[19:28] <danielsaul> If it ever gets made
[19:28] <griffonbot> Received email: Guy Richardson "[UKHAS] Hello and congratulation to APEX Alpha"
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[19:28] <priyesh> Mini write up has been published => http://www.apexhab.org/alpha/launch-1/
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[19:35] <Lunar_Lander> cool danielsaul
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[19:36] <griffonbot> Received email: Priyesh Patel "[UKHAS] Apex Alpha Write Up"
[19:37] <Lunar_Lander> priyesh : cool!
[19:37] <Lunar_Lander> you might want to correct Thomas' callsign
[19:37] <priyesh> ooh.
[19:37] <Lunar_Lander> L not 1 in the end
[19:37] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:37] <priyesh> what is it?
[19:38] <priyesh> thanks
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> DH1BDL
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> :) you're welcome
[19:38] <jonsowman> oh sorry, that's my fault
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[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> ah
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[19:46] <DanielRichman> fsphil: did you get a chance to try out the couchdb dlfldigi?
[19:46] <fsphil> not yet DanielRichman, but now that you mention it...
[19:46] <DanielRichman> fsphil: cool no rush. I'll be sending an email around soon asking for a few ppl to try it out on max/win & test it etc.
[19:47] <DanielRichman> but I just wanted to say: can you be on the look out for bugs or anything you dislike
[19:47] <Upu> couldn't do the range / packets for DH1BDL as they didn't appear up on Robs server
[19:47] <fsphil> any new dependencies DanielRichman?
[19:48] <DanielRichman> fsphil: yup
[19:48] <DanielRichman> Upu: yeah I inserted direct to couchdb :S
[19:48] <Upu> so when are we getting new dl-fldigi that supports NMEA ?
[19:48] <DanielRichman> supports NMEA
[19:48] <DanielRichman> fsphil: one sec
[19:48] <fsphil> Upu, the next one will
[19:49] <fsphil> the beta I've been using already does
[19:49] <DanielRichman> doesn't the current one ... support NMEA?
[19:49] <Upu> not directly
[19:49] <fsphil> nah it gets distances and bearing wrong
[19:49] <DanielRichman> oh right
[19:49] <Upu> distances are all wrong
[19:49] <fsphil> I added support in git but it hasn't seen a release yet
[19:49] <DanielRichman> okay, cool
[19:49] <DanielRichman> fsphil: right so you need habitat_extensions basically, which itself depends on jsoncpp
[19:50] <DanielRichman> habitat_extension is just compiled in (it's a git submodule, so all the .c. and .h are just directly dumped into the dl-fldigi src folder)
[19:50] <fsphil> Does cloning the dl-fldigi repo grab the extensions?
[19:50] <DanielRichman> jsoncpp is linked properly. I've made a Ubuntu or Debian .deb (-dev too)
[19:50] <DanielRichman> git clone <whatever>
[19:50] <DanielRichman> git submodule update
[19:50] <DanielRichman> (iirc)
[19:51] <DanielRichman> but you aren't a ubuntu user, I believe?
[19:51] <fsphil> fedora
[19:51] <fsphil> I've got a habitat_extensions directory but it's empty
[19:52] <DanielRichman> does git submodule init or git submodule update do anything>?
[19:52] <fsphil> ah, those two in order did the trick
[19:52] <DanielRichman> cool, noted.
[19:52] <DanielRichman> right so if you build now it will ... well, it should fail to ./configure, complaining about lack of jsoncpp
[19:53] <DanielRichman> I don't know what the easiest thing to do would be. I don't really know how to use autotools so I was just guessing
[19:53] <DanielRichman> ah, it just tests to see if g++ -ljsoncpp works
[19:53] <fsphil> dl-fldigi's configure worked fine
[19:53] <DanielRichman> hmm...
[19:54] <DanielRichman> does it say "checking for jsoncpp... no"
[19:54] <fsphil> trying a build
[19:54] <fsphil> no mention of jsoncpp
[19:54] <DanielRichman> did you autoreconf/use a clean clone?
[19:54] <fsphil> guess this will fail then :)
[19:54] <fsphil> autoreconf -vfi
[19:54] <DanielRichman> huh weird; w/e. It will probably fail.
[19:54] <fsphil> yea
[19:55] <fsphil> trying configure again
[19:55] <DanielRichman> I think the easiest thing to do would be to download jsoncpp and then make -ljsoncpp work either by installing or setting the relevant environment variables so that includes/linking works
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[19:57] <fsphil> heh, guess what isn't packaged
[19:57] <DanielRichman> no indeed, that's why I had to make a ppa ubuntu deb
[19:57] <DanielRichman> checking for main in -ljsoncpp... yes
[19:58] <DanielRichman> https://launchpad.net/~danieljonathanrichman/+archive/ppa
[19:59] <danielsaul> fsphil: Whats habhound being written it?
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[19:59] <fsphil> C / GTK
[19:59] <danielsaul> Thanks
[20:00] <fsphil> I'll download and install jsoncpp the old fashion way :)
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[20:05] <fsphil> scons is being silly
[20:07] <fsphil> gotcha
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[20:12] <fsphil> ok stupid question, how do I tell scons I want to install it
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[20:14] <priyesh> second article live on hackaday: http://hackaday.com/2011/10/23/beating-the-wrong-amateur-balloon-record/
[20:14] <griffonbot> @apexhab: Check out our post-launch article on @hackaday. http://t.co/YrZoj4kg #ukhas #apexhab [http://twitter.com/apexhab/status/128202729855254529]
[20:14] <fsphil> lol
[20:15] <fsphil> priyesh, did you see the us launch today that did get the alt. record?
[20:15] <priyesh> fsphil: saw some of it - they should use spacenearus
[20:15] <priyesh> we correctly predicted that someone would beat the record :P
[20:15] <fsphil> they really should
[20:15] <fsphil> lol
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[20:20] Nick change: radicalbiscuit_ -> radicalbiscuit
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[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> and YES PBH'S RECORD IS HISTORY
[20:22] <fsphil> well they're second :p
[20:22] <fsphil> not quite history lol
[20:22] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:25] <Upu> lol I get a special mention on the article lol
[20:26] <Upu> Reminds me I need to mail OZ1SKY and tell him he beat the 50 baud record
[20:26] <priyesh> Upu: yep :)
[20:26] <priyesh> Upu: let him know about the hackaday article he's in
[20:26] <Upu> will do
[20:26] <priyesh> also our artcile
[20:26] <priyesh> please :)
[20:26] <priyesh> thanks :)
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> can it be that the californian balloon is out of comms?
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander> priyesh : I'll let Thomas know :)
[20:27] <priyesh> Lunar_Lander: thanks :)
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[20:27] <fsphil> I think it broke when the balloon burst Lunar_Lander
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[20:28] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[20:28] <fsphil> not sure
[20:29] <fsphil> it did seem to stop very abruptly
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[20:31] <griffonbot> @aschobel: RT @apexhab: A HUGE thanks to those who tracked #apexhab Alpha yesterday. Read: http://t.co/dadsVGa7 #ukhas [http://twitter.com/aschobel/status/128206988529246208]
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> yay
[20:36] <Upu> hey Lunar_Lander
[20:37] <Upu> grats about time you did some tracking :)
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[20:47] Nick change: eszasz -> agu^^
[20:47] <agu^^> hello there
[20:48] <fsphil> hiya agu^^
[20:50] <agu^^> hi fsphil. any high altitude balloons in air now? :)
[20:50] <fsphil> there where two in the US earlier but I think they're both down now
[20:50] <fsphil> one got the amateur altitude record
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[20:51] <fsphil> 41619m up
[20:51] <griffonbot> @hackaday: RT @apexhab: @hackaday We now need HAM users in Russia #apexhab #ukhas [http://twitter.com/hackaday/status/128212028652392448]
[20:51] <griffonbot> @hackaday: RT @apexhab: @hackaday It may have even burst in which case we need people looking for it! #apexhab #ukhas [http://twitter.com/hackaday/status/128212041298223105]
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[20:54] <griffonbot> @notrimskiy: RT @apexhab: @hackaday We now need HAM users in Russia #apexhab #ukhas [http://twitter.com/notrimskiy/status/128212797795467264]
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[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> good night
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[21:03] <griffonbot> @RDGhack: RT @apexhab: @hackaday We now need HAM users in Russia #apexhab #ukhas [http://twitter.com/RDGhack/status/128214971690647553]
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[21:08] <griffonbot> @DarrenGriffin: RT @apexhab: @hackaday We now need HAM users in Russia #apexhab #ukhas [http://twitter.com/DarrenGriffin/status/128216226567696384]
[21:13] Action: DanielRichman takes responsibility for breaking habhub.org for a minute there. It's back now ;-)
[21:14] <NigeyS> think u own upu a new iphone DanielRichman lol
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[21:15] <DanielRichman> :o
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[21:21] <griffonbot> Received email: David Bowkis "Re: [UKHAS] A Huge Thanks [Apex Alpha]"
[21:22] <fsphil> yikes
[21:22] <fsphil> black radio magic again
[21:23] <Randomskk> seriously
[21:23] <jonsowman> wut
[21:23] <Randomskk> jonsowman: this all makes our trackotron look frankly pathetic
[21:24] <Randomskk> can we do something about this
[21:24] <jonsowman> phased array time
[21:24] <NigeyS> lol
[21:24] <Randomskk> I reckon 4x 21-el yagis
[21:24] <Randomskk> we can compensate for shit altitude with tons of gain =D
[21:24] <fsphil> I'm loving the trackotron, was it easy to build?
[21:24] <jonsowman> the rotator itself was a pre-built unit
[21:24] <jonsowman> we (CUSF) wrote the control software
[21:24] <fsphil> nice
[21:25] <jonsowman> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/6270585576/in/set-72157627829326013
[21:25] <jonsowman> it's just two stepper motors really
[21:25] <Randomskk> it weighs a TON
[21:25] <Randomskk> so friggin heavy
[21:25] <fsphil> ah
[21:25] <fsphil> I was pondering something like that on my roof
[21:25] <Randomskk> could shift 4 bi yagis no probs
[21:25] <fsphil> see what you mean, it's well built
[21:26] <jonsowman> it's great though
[21:26] <jonsowman> we just sit there and it follows the balloon
[21:26] <jonsowman> :D
[21:27] <Randomskk> otoh all these bastards with colinears just sit there without even needing to rotate it and do a better job >_>
[21:27] <NigeyS> hahaha
[21:27] <Upu> *cough*
[21:27] <Upu> just bitter
[21:27] Action: jonsowman looks at Upu
[21:27] <Randomskk> so bitter :P
[21:27] <fsphil> now you're just showing off: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/6270589042
[21:27] Action: NigeyS is having his colinear put up soon
[21:27] <Randomskk> NigeyS: nice :P what altitude are you at?
[21:28] <fsphil> join us NigeyS
[21:28] <jonsowman> fsphil: we had an excellent mission control room going
[21:28] <Randomskk> fsphil: it's a lovely meeting room
[21:28] <NigeyS> about 30m asl lol
[21:28] <fsphil> it's fun on the omni-directional side
[21:28] <NigeyS> its going on the chimney on a 10ft mast though so should be ok
[21:28] <Laurenceb_> haha its the ballooning lair
[21:28] <jonsowman> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/6270052629/in/set-72157627829326013
[21:28] <Upu> if I could make that track-o-tron smaller i'd use one
[21:28] <jonsowman> radios, rotator controller, laptops, projector
[21:28] <jonsowman> :D
[21:28] <Laurenceb_> need a Dr Evil on the wall with a balloon
[21:29] <Upu> just can't help thinking the wife might object to that on the rood
[21:29] <Upu> roof
[21:29] <jonsowman> Upu: you could build one very simply
[21:29] <jonsowman> it's just two stepper motors and a controller
[21:29] <Upu> yeah
[21:29] <fsphil> could be quite stealthy on the roof
[21:29] <fsphil> looks like a tv antenna
[21:29] <Upu> I had a link
[21:29] <Upu> bear iwth me
[21:30] <jonsowman> we have a python script that downloads data from habitat, and uses positional information from a custom made board with GPS, to calc a/el
[21:30] <jonsowman> *az/el
[21:30] <jonsowman> and sends it to the rotator controller
[21:30] <Upu> http://www.servocity.com/html/tube_servo_power_gearboxes.html
[21:30] <fsphil> to be fair, I could point one at cambridge and still track most flight with it
[21:30] <Upu> yeah same herre
[21:31] <jonsowman> true
[21:31] <fsphil> but it would be nice for other things
[21:31] <jonsowman> ours swung from about 13 to 80 deg azimuth during Alpha
[21:31] <Randomskk> launching from cambridge does mean we have more range but tbh
[21:31] <Upu> has it ever gone down to 0' before ?
[21:31] <Randomskk> a whip for the nearby and then the yagi pointing out would work fine
[21:31] <jonsowman> Upu: it did yesterday
[21:31] <Randomskk> Upu: az or el?
[21:32] <Upu> el
[21:32] <jonsowman> assuming you mean el
[21:32] <jonsowman> yes
[21:32] <Randomskk> its slowly dropping el was us terrified yesterday
[21:32] <Randomskk> it started at like 13?
[21:32] <Randomskk> and then dropped throughout the day
[21:32] <jonsowman> yeah 13
[21:32] <Randomskk> so we knew exactly what horizon we were on :P
[21:32] <Randomskk> by the time it got to 0 we were running on vapours basically
[21:33] <Upu> oh
[21:33] <Upu> the track-o-tron is protable
[21:33] <Randomskk> yea it's not a fixed install
[21:34] <Upu> whats the make of the motors ?
[21:34] <fsphil> how do you align it?
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[21:34] <jonsowman> fsphil: with a compass for az
[21:34] <Randomskk> fsphil: get it level and pointing north
[21:34] <Randomskk> "a compass"
[21:34] <Randomskk> ha ha
[21:34] <jonsowman> i used a compass
[21:34] <jonsowman> what did you do?
[21:34] <Randomskk> did you?
[21:35] <Randomskk> I guess I did originally once
[21:35] <jonsowman> phone compass
[21:35] <Randomskk> now I just aim it directly between those two church things
[21:35] <jonsowman> heh yes
[21:35] <jonsowman> i'll know for next time
[21:36] <Upu> yeah needs more Yagis
[21:36] <Randomskk> we have two identical already
[21:36] <Randomskk> but no phasing array
[21:36] <Upu> looks like it could take more
[21:36] <Randomskk> but are looking at getting 4 21-els
[21:37] <Upu> whats the gain on that ?
[21:37] <Randomskk> each one was like 18dBi? and then 4 of them for roughly 6dB more
[21:37] <Randomskk> so maybe 24dBi total
[21:38] <Upu> quite a bit
[21:38] <Randomskk> though tbh holding 4 of them at once will be tricky
[21:38] <Upu> so whats the make of the motors ?
[21:38] <Randomskk> definitely gonna have to start with 2
[21:38] <Randomskk> uhm
[21:38] <Randomskk> something stupid
[21:38] <Upu> LAD something
[21:38] <Randomskk> spid maybe
[21:38] <Randomskk> I don't think the make of the motors is relevant though I definitely don't know
[21:38] <Randomskk> the rotator is from SPID I think
[21:38] <jonsowman> yeah
[21:38] <jonsowman> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/6270048983/in/set-72157627829326013
[21:38] <jonsowman> top left
[21:39] <Upu> I see
[21:39] <Upu> nasty website...
[21:40] <Randomskk> it's a HAM related website
[21:40] <Randomskk> what do you expect
[21:40] <DanielRichman> fsphil: hi sorry; just scrolled up to read the dl-fldigi stuff
[21:41] <DanielRichman> fsphil: I can't 100% remember; I'll go and check. While I do: one thing I was gonna suggest: you can run habitat_extensions' unit tests to make sure that the jsoncpp stuff is all working (make in habitat_extensions/cpp_connector)
[21:41] <RocketBoy> has anyone got an older version of fl-digi than dl-fldigi-3-1.20.29.r115.1 for the mac
[21:41] <fsphil> Upu, it really is nasty!
[21:41] <fsphil> DanielRichman, soon as I get jsoncpp installed I will
[21:42] <DanielRichman> so
[21:42] <DanielRichman> I had a look at my debian/rules
[21:42] <DanielRichman> and I used `cp` to do the install
[21:42] <DanielRichman> :S
[21:42] <fsphil> haha
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[21:43] <fsphil> I might cook up an rpm for handyness
[21:43] <DanielRichman> fsphil: here it is: http://pastie.org/private/4sixnxjct7zsr9sydbi4ya
[21:43] <DanielRichman> yes indeed; that's why I did it
[21:43] <DanielRichman> I don't like putting random stuff in /usr
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[21:44] <Upu> yikes
[21:44] <Upu> that rotator is £1000
[21:44] <fsphil> !!!
[21:44] <jonsowman> what?!
[21:44] <fsphil> I don't have enough !'s for that
[21:44] <Upu> AZIMUTH & ELEVATION Rotator (BIG-RAS):
[21:44] <Upu> Delivered incl. controller, software, PC cable, special controll mouse.
[21:44] <Upu> (Weight AZ&EL rotator: 22Kg)
[21:44] <Upu> 1549,00 Euro
[21:44] <jonsowman> blimey
[21:45] <jonsowman> it's on permanent loan to CUSF
[21:45] <jonsowman> we didn't pay for it
[21:45] <Randomskk> haha srsly
[21:45] <jonsowman> hence my not knowing the price
[21:45] <fsphil> be careful with it!
[21:45] <Randomskk> the things I've done to that rotator
[21:45] <Randomskk> :X
[21:45] <jonsowman> hehe
[21:45] <Upu> the resolution seems to be very accurate
[21:45] <Upu> 0.5'
[21:46] <Randomskk> hahaha "special control mouse"
[21:46] <Randomskk> if only you knew
[21:46] <jonsowman> you can plug in a serial (!) mouse to control it
[21:46] <jonsowman> lol
[21:46] <fsphil> hence the special ... you can't get them anymore :)
[21:46] <jonsowman> very special
[21:46] <Randomskk> oh it's not a serial mouse
[21:46] <Randomskk> it's v special
[21:47] <jonsowman> ...
[21:47] <Randomskk> the buttons are just hardwired to various pins, it doesn't use the mouse ball at all
[21:47] <jonsowman> :|
[21:47] <Randomskk> we don't actually have it though
[21:47] <fsphil> I wonder if they used the old joystick standard pinout
[21:48] <fsphil> you could probably work it with a sega megadrive controller
[21:48] <Randomskk> I doubt it
[21:48] <Randomskk> the whole thing is like
[21:48] <Randomskk> oh, god, why
[21:48] <Upu> should link it to a Wi Numbchuck
[21:48] <russss> heh
[21:48] <Randomskk> hehe
[21:48] <Dan-K2VOL> rocketboy if you can do experiment again, try inflating in steps every 5mb or so, measure lift, then deflate to full but zero pressure, and measure lift each time at that zp full satate
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[21:48] <Randomskk> it's a bit slow
[21:48] <Dan-K2VOL> that will tell you when the material starts to 'creep' as in not return to it's original volume after stretch
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[21:49] <Dan-K2VOL> have to run
[21:49] <Randomskk> Dan-K2VOL: oh we were trying to look for this earlier, latex does creep then?
[21:49] <Randomskk> all we could find were latex face masks of CREEP
[21:49] <Dan-K2VOL> not latex, mylar
[21:49] <Randomskk> aah okay
[21:49] <Randomskk> fair enough
[21:50] <Dan-K2VOL> I"m sure latex will too but I haven't looked at it
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[21:50] <RocketBoy> Dan-K2VOL: the difficulty is measuring pressure while there is gas flow as the sensor is before the balloon and the balloon fill stem exerts a back pressure
[21:51] <RocketBoy> so hitting any particular pressure is guesswork
[21:51] <RocketBoy> I think a BMP085 inside the balloon will fix that though
[21:51] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm, will probably need to fix that to get good data
[21:52] <Dan-K2VOL> but a sensor inside might do it
[21:52] <Dan-K2VOL> sealing hoses into film balloon walls is a technique we need to figure out
[21:53] <RocketBoy> yeah - I think so - I'm going to solder one on the end of some ribbon cable and insert up the neck
[21:53] <Dan-K2VOL> may want to grease that ribbon so it doesn't leak down the grooves
[21:54] <RocketBoy> blue tack + dict tape seems to solve any seal problems
[21:54] <RocketBoy> duct
[21:54] <Dan-K2VOL> I've gotta run, going to go work on the superpressure math formula tool with Ailene!
[21:54] <Dan-K2VOL> nice!
[21:54] <RocketBoy> cool
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[22:00] <Laurenceb_> you know APEX was heading straight for Chernobyl
[22:00] <RocketBoy> :-)
[22:00] <jonsowman> heh
[22:00] <jonsowman> i doubt it got that far
[22:00] <k5egg> it crashed on top of reactor 2
[22:00] <k5egg> fail
[22:01] <agu^^> so any trackable flying objects in the air now?
[22:01] <fsphil> do you still want it back? :)
[22:01] <agu^^> homemade i mean
[22:01] <fsphil> not sure when the next flight is
[22:01] <fsphil> my own flight is well overdue
[22:02] <Laurenceb_> if it flew till morning itd have gone a lot further than that
[22:06] <Upu> could have made it way past Ukraine
[22:08] <k5egg> how long will the batteries last?
[22:08] <k5egg> anyone know a pilot?
[22:08] <Upu> could be 48 hours ?
[22:09] <Upu> not sure on the current draw, Ava's batteries lasted over 48 hours in testing
[22:09] <Darkside> it'll be long dead by now
[22:10] <Darkside> the board is quite similar to the mininut design
[22:10] <Upu> floating in the Caspian sea :)
[22:10] <Darkside> and with 3x AAs, it'll probably have lasted 18-24 hours
[22:10] <k5egg> how much does the helium cost for a typical 1.5-2kg flight?
[22:11] <Upu> depends where you get it
[22:11] <Upu> over £100 normally
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[22:14] <Upu> anyway night all
[22:14] <fsphil> night Upu
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[22:24] <Futurity> Hi, congratulations on the APEX Alpha launch
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[22:25] <Futurity> I seem to have missed the announcement about it. I just wanted to check if it was announced on the UKHAS mailing list and if so it'll show if I've been loosing emails
[22:25] <nickolai> hey natrium42
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[22:29] <Futurity> Hi, does anyone know if the APEX Alpha launch was announced on the UKHAS mailing list? It just that I didn't see an announcement and am worried I've been loosing emails. Would have like to have helped out tracking you see.
[22:32] <natrium42> it was on arhab list for sure
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[22:35] <nickolai> any news on that payload, or is it simply lost hanging from a tree in some polish forest?
[22:39] <Futurity> arhab list. Not heard of that one
[22:39] <Futurity> can UKHABer join that one do you know?
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[22:45] <Futurity> is the arhab list a twitter feed? Can't seem to find anywhere to sign up to a mailing list on the site
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[00:00] --- Mon Oct 24 2011