highaltitude.log.20111020

[00:00] <Alan_> I'm from Winnipeg Manitoba Canada and this is a High School ( Middel School ) project
[00:01] <Alan_> This time there is a science payload so the extra lify is required and of course a higher alt is desireable :-)
[00:01] <nickolai> so are you the prof or one of the students?
[00:02] <Alan_> The call sign for www.aprs.fi will be VE4SHS-?? using APRS for the primary transmitter and a SPOT2 for backup
[00:03] <Alan_> I'm an old fart retire type who does some mentoring for the High School. Ham call sign VE4YZ
[00:05] <nickolai> Very cool. I've got to head out but good luck with your launch!
[00:06] <Alan_> I've been doing HAB for several years See also http://wincube.ca for promotion of STEM to and with high school student
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[00:55] <Alan_> Too quite here tonight ( -6GMT 20hr local ) what is eveyone using for predictions? I use BalTrak form EOS http://nearspaceventures.com/w3Baltrak/readyget.pl and have started to use Cambridge Univerity http://habhub.org/predict/ and am comparing the differences in the track.
[00:56] <Alan_> quite s/b quiet
[00:58] <natrium42> Alan_: cool, what's the payload?
[01:00] <Alan_> A 2 cameras ( still and GoPro, a science payload and APRS and SPOT2 for tracking See here http://shsballoonproject.pbworks.com/w/page/47029074/SHARP%202
[01:02] <natrium42> looking good :)
[01:02] <natrium42> thanks for linking to me, btw
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[01:41] <Darkside> hmm
[01:41] <Darkside> anyone have any experience with launching on large bundles of normal party balloons?
[01:41] <Darkside> not foil balloons
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[02:04] <Alan_> Darkside... here is a well documented site successfully using trach bags instead of balloons http://www.projecttbac.org/index.html
[02:05] <Darkside> i'm not using trash bags
[02:05] <Darkside> its just there a function on at uni which will have about 50 latex party balloons
[02:12] <Alan_> Toy or party balloons vary in size so here's a start http://www.clusterballoon.com/
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[06:18] <SamSilver> nosebleedKT: when you comming to see the monkeys?
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[08:25] <NigelMoby> Morning
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[08:26] <daveake> Morning
[08:26] <WillDuckworth> Morning
[08:27] <earthshine> Morning
[08:27] <daveake> Car PC fixed. Case fan wasn't fanning.
[08:27] <daveake> Now I need another launch to try it on :)
[08:28] <NigelMoby> :o
[08:29] <NigelMoby> How's things earthshine, not spoke to u in a while!
[08:29] <Upu> morning NigelMoby
[08:29] <daveake> Upu - IIRC you posted a photo of your in-car setup a while back. Do you have a link for that?
[08:30] <Upu> yeah 1 sec
[08:30] <NigelMoby> Hey upu. Tnx for ccing me that email, be cool if he's interested.
[08:30] <daveake> TVM
[08:30] <Upu> yeah NigelMoby just keep it between us :)
[08:30] <NigelMoby> Dedi
[08:30] <earthshine> NigelMoby: Good thanks. You?
[08:30] <daveake> I bought a Samsung Galaxy Tab for the missus, ahem, and a car windscreen mount for the car
[08:30] <NigelMoby> Defo*
[08:30] <NigelMoby> All good mike, keeping busy?
[08:30] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/files/habmobile.jpg
[08:31] <daveake> Cheers Upu. So now when Julie says "Don't we have enough screens in the car already?", I can point her to that :p
[08:31] <UpuWork> lol
[08:32] <UpuWork> hang on let me get you a pic of Robs wifes Shogun
[08:32] <UpuWork> https://picasaweb.google.com/118244444241111963790/201107ManLab?authkey=Gv1sRgCLLdyqux5_buDw#5635427895767382994
[08:32] <daveake> We'll have Sat Nav, Car PC touchscreen, my netbook, Samsung Tab, my JTC
[08:32] <daveake> HTC
[08:33] <daveake> Cable heaven lol
[08:33] <daveake> Advantage of the car PC is that all the cables are under the carpet
[08:33] <daveake> Well almost all
[08:34] <UpuWork> I'm considering get an invertor properly wired in
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[08:35] <daveake> I have 12V permanent + ignition running to the boot for the car PC. It has its own DC-DC PSU inside
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[08:37] <daveake> On Sunday I was using the Netbook with its own batteries, which were about to give up as we got to the petrol station to fill up. The DC-DC adapter was in the boot (doh!) so we had to stop so I could grab it
[08:38] <SamSilver> daveake: http://imgur.com/POXNK,YzNit
[08:38] <daveake> WTF? :)
[08:39] <SamSilver> made it this weekend
[08:39] <SamSilver> :p
[08:39] <daveake> :)
[08:40] <daveake> Upu Any idea when Man Lab is showing?
[08:40] <SamSilver> nah found the pic .... not mine
[08:40] <UpuWork> Starts next Tuesday but I don't think thats our episode
[08:40] <daveake> lol
[08:40] <daveake> ok, ta. I'll set the recorder box for the series
[08:41] <costyn> mvgroup.org records a lot of BBC shows and makes them available as torrents; I saw they have the previous season of Man Lab available as well
[08:42] <costyn> http://forums.mvgroup.org/torrents/ directory of torrents; I think this open directory is a mistake, but useful nonetheless
[08:44] <costyn> so many great documentaries there
[08:44] <costyn> many in HD too
[08:51] <WillDuckworth> any ideas when the next manlab series is on with the HAB?
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[08:57] <UpuWork> hey WillDuckworth
[08:57] <UpuWork> series starts next Tuesday but I don't think its the one with us on it
[08:59] <WillDuckworth> cool - thanks :) looking forward to it
[09:00] <UpuWork> If anyones interested we had 53 simultaneous viewers to the conference stream
[09:02] <x-f> thank you for providing it!
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[09:09] <daveake> indeed!
[09:09] <mattltm> Hi all :0
[09:09] <daveake> Now, if you'd ordered pizza deliveries for the viewers, it would have been perfect :p
[09:09] <fsphil> onions!!
[09:09] <daveake> lol
[09:10] <fsphil> ;)
[09:11] <fsphil> I tried running one of my bigger PCs of one of those car inverters, I think it broke the psu
[09:11] <fsphil> guess it needs a sine wave one
[09:14] <daveake> I've run a high-spec laptop from a low-spec inverter, and it just couldn't keep the battery charged when the laptop was in use.
[09:14] <daveake> I prefer the DC-DC ones, as it's one conversion not two
[09:15] <mattltm> Anyone ever used an Eye Fi?
[09:15] <number10> is the DC i/p to your netbook 12v daveake?
[09:15] <fsphil> I've had problems with the DC-DC ones running when the car isn't on or of a battery directly
[09:15] <daveake> I've used a nice Kensington one with my laptop, and a cheapo Chinese thinjg with my Netbook. Both work just fine and I haven't seen any interference on the radio
[09:15] <daveake> 16 I think
[09:15] <daveake> Or 19
[09:15] <daveake> Somewhere around there
[09:15] <daveake> So it has to be a converter not just a bit of wire :D
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[09:16] <number10> :)
[09:16] <fsphil> I think the one I had needed a voltage > 12v, and when the laptop was running it would drop to 11.5ish
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[09:17] <fsphil> the laptop itself needs 19v or something silly like that
[09:18] <daveake> Yeah. The Kensington one has different plugs for different laptops, and the plug tells it what voltage to send
[09:18] <daveake> Quite neat really. This is the one I have - http://www.amazon.com/Kensington-K33197-Portable-Notebook-Adapter/dp/B0007W1K8M
[09:18] <daveake> They do a cheaper 90W one too, I think
[09:19] <daveake> That one unit does car, plane and mains, so when I travel it's the only one I take.
[09:19] <number10> I must be getting old - I vaguely remember the same conversation I had with you a while back now you mention the kensington converter
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[09:20] <daveake> :D
[09:20] <fsphil> ah, it has 12v minimum too
[09:20] <daveake> Yeah but it will work lower
[09:22] <Darkside> hrmmm
[09:22] <Darkside> was planning on doing a pico launch on party balloons tomorrow night
[09:22] <daveake> I'll check it out for you :)
[09:22] <Darkside> but i dont think i will now...
[09:22] <daveake> oh?
[09:22] <Darkside> well its unlikely i'll get the payload back
[09:23] <Darkside> and i don't want to throw away the working 50g payload
[09:23] <NigelMoby> Hey darkside
[09:23] <Darkside> all the other transmit modules i have are 100mW, and they draw too much current to be able to use the 2xAAA + boost converter combo
[09:23] <Darkside> hi NigelMoby
[09:24] <NigelMoby> U were planning a party pico?
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[09:28] <daveake> So, if I want to have a go at this pico stuff, what balloons should I use?
[09:28] <number10> how difficult are the picos to track - I noticed last two from NigelMoby were not recovered, I know they went a long distance and travelling was a problem - but dou you think you could have recovered?
[09:28] <daveake> I assume not "Ones shaped like Buzz Lightyear" :D
[09:28] <NigelMoby> Qualatex Dave
[09:29] <number10> also james seems to send his out to sea
[09:29] <daveake> I've done "sea" :D
[09:29] <NigelMoby> If we had transport, probably recoverable
[09:29] <number10> yes, we know - but james seems to do it on purpose ;)
[09:29] <daveake> :D
[09:29] <NigelMoby> But if they float, be prepared for a sea landing.
[09:30] <number10> I wonder how practicle a cutdown would be
[09:30] <number10> Nige - did you dsay they lift 98g per baloon?
[09:30] <daveake> Tape some nichrome to the envelope?
[09:30] <NigelMoby> U don't have the weight allowance for cutdowns
[09:31] <daveake> nichrome+fet is light, but the battery probably won't cope
[09:31] <NigelMoby> 66 gms max, but remember u want to float so half that at least
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[09:35] <Darkside> NigelMoby: i was going to use about 50 latex party balloons
[09:36] <Darkside> >_>
[09:36] <Darkside> i.e. the leftovers from a party on that night
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[09:36] <NigelMoby> Ooo that'd b cool! Def a 1 way trip?
[09:37] <Darkside> likely
[09:37] <Darkside> but i'm not going to do it now
[09:37] <Darkside> not if theres a good chance of losing the payload, which ther eis
[09:37] <NigelMoby> Nah, don't risk it, the payloads to valuable.
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[09:39] <NigelMoby> Hey Steve
[09:39] <number10> presumably you would get more lift with the 50 latex, and maybe could do a cutdown?
[09:40] <NigelMoby> Ure in notam territory if u use latex
[09:41] <Darkside> not here
[09:41] <Darkside> :P
[09:41] <Darkside> not if the payload is <50g
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[09:41] <Darkside> which it would have been in this case
[09:42] <number10> I thought it just had to be < 2m, is there also a weight restriction in the UK?
[09:43] <NigelMoby> Latex expands remember
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[09:46] <number10> is it dificult to determine by how much?
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[09:46] <NigelMoby> Probably a formula somewhere
[09:46] <RocketBoy> its in manufacturer data
[09:47] <RocketBoy> forexample I think the 100g totex will burst before it reaches 2m
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[09:59] <number10> thanks RocketBoy
[10:02] Nick change: SamSilver -> SamSilver_
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[10:10] <WillDuckworth> damn those 0603 components are small - anyone know any suppliers of various 'selection packs' of resistors/capacitors? and tips for soldering them!
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[10:17] <Laurenceb> bah 0603 is easy
[10:17] <Laurenceb> 01005 is where its at
[10:17] <Laurenceb> soldering with an iron?
[10:17] <UpuWork> WillDuckworth
[10:17] <UpuWork> flux
[10:17] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[10:17] <UpuWork> more flux
[10:17] <UpuWork> and some flux
[10:18] <WillDuckworth> extra flux then yeah?
[10:18] <UpuWork> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NN7UGWYmBY
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[10:21] <number10> are you using unleaded solder?
[10:22] <WillDuckworth> will be more than likely, trying to get a batch of various items rather than spending 7p on each one i need
[10:23] <WillDuckworth> or less
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[10:24] <number10> I still have leaded solder - is much better to use
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[10:33] <Laurenceb> what the hell
[10:34] <Laurenceb> i cant access st.com
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[10:36] <WillDuckworth> http://www.st.com/internet/com/home/home.jsp
[10:36] <Laurenceb> http://www.st.com/internet/com/TECHNICAL_RESOURCES/TECHNICAL_LITERATURE/DATASHEET/CD00161566.pdf
[10:36] <Laurenceb> does that work?
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[10:37] <WillDuckworth> yep
[10:37] <Laurenceb> odd
[10:38] <WillDuckworth> are they any good (STMicro that is)?
[10:38] <Laurenceb> very
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[11:07] <nelly11> hi! Quick question. How thick is the nylon cord which is used to attach the payload capsule to the balloon? I planned to use a 4mm thick nylon cord but ive realised that it has a breaking strength greater than 230N which is the limit set by the ICAO
[11:07] <nelly11> I gues what I am asking is whether everyone always takes this 230N requirement into consideration
[11:07] <UpuWork> the limits on our site are just advisory
[11:08] <UpuWork> 4mm is probably too thick
[11:08] <UpuWork> 1mm has a breaking strain of something like 70kg
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[11:08] <UpuWork> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:materials
[11:09] <UpuWork> 4mm has a breaking strain of 350kg
[11:09] <UpuWork> 1,5mm = 5kg
[11:09] <UpuWork> more than adequate
[11:09] <nelly11> ok thanks
[11:09] <UpuWork> duh
[11:09] <UpuWork> 1,5mm = 45kg
[11:10] <UpuWork> afk a little
[11:11] <RocketBoy> I typically use 1.2mm - havn't had a break yet
[11:14] <nelly11> but a 45kg breaking mass = 441N which is highly in excess of the 230N limit imposed by the ICAO
[11:14] <daveake> I used 1mm on Buzz and (I think) 2mm on the heavier payloads
[11:15] <daveake> I'll check
[11:15] <nelly11> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:guidelines
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[11:15] <nelly11> see 3 II
[11:15] <RocketBoy> thats a *guideline*
[11:16] <daveake> [checks] yeah, 2mm. Guess I should use the thinner stuff in future
[11:16] <RocketBoy> in the UK there is no specified limit on line strength
[11:16] <RocketBoy> in the regulations
[11:17] <nelly11> ok
[11:17] <nelly11> thanks
[11:18] <RocketBoy> in any event the ICAO regulation is not about line breaking strength - its about seperation force
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[11:19] <RocketBoy> so you could have a device attached that would detach at 230N and much thicker line
[11:21] <RocketBoy> but yes it would be better if everone used 230N breaking strain line - its just that it requires careful launching for bigger balloons
[11:23] <daveake> No problem with it actually breaking in normal use?
[11:24] <RocketBoy> The line between the chute and payload should be thicker IMO - but between the balloon and chute - there should be no problem in flight
[11:25] <daveake> Yes, that's what I was thinking.
[11:25] <RocketBoy> I use the 2 line launch technique if ever I use 1.0mm
[11:25] <daveake> I used 1mm for Buzz, but he only weighed 100g and there was almost no wind
[11:27] <RocketBoy> yeah its only really a problem for windy conditions and big balloons
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[11:43] <UpuWork> www.o0o0o0o.com is this anything to do with anyone on here ?
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[11:50] <SamSilver_> a frying saucer maybe daveake
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[11:52] <daveake> <innocent>
[11:52] <UpuWork> that not you daveake ?
[11:53] <UpuWork> want to be my friend on Youface
[11:53] <daveake> Nope
[11:53] <UpuWork> k
[11:53] <daveake> I'm choccydonuts on yt
[11:53] <UpuWork> oh yes
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[12:24] <number10> lol - great name
[12:25] <daveake> :D
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[12:26] <daveake> Gadaffi captured apparently.
[12:26] <daveake> Gddafi even
[12:26] <daveake> Gaddafi
[12:27] <daveake> Some say shot in both legs; other say killed
[12:31] <costyn> all we know is, he's called Ghaddafi?
[12:32] <costyn> :P
[12:32] <daveake> lol
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[12:33] <fsphil> Some say he's made of plastic
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[12:39] <daveake> Some say, he's actually dead... But the Grim reaper, is too scared to tell him.
[12:41] <Darkside> all we know is...
[12:41] <Darkside> he's gaddafi
[12:44] <daveake> According to Wikipedia, he died (and I'm quoting exactly) " 20 October 2011 (aged Expression error: Unrecognised punctuation character "{") Kadhimiya, Iraq"
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[12:46] <SamSilver_> I got to do it
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[12:47] <SamSilver_> bugger
[12:47] <SamSilver_> :p
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[12:49] <number10_> did anyone get a measurement on the FSA03 to see what the current draw was when obtaining lock
[12:49] Nick change: number10_ -> number10
[12:51] <fsphil> reminds me, I've lost a box with my fsa03s somewhere in my room
[12:51] <daveake> I haven't, but the GS407 is 100mA or so
[12:51] <fsphil> some fsa03's where sold with the ublox6 chip - it's lower power
[12:52] <daveake> Yes, RocketBoy flew one of those recently
[12:52] <daveake> IIRC it's "FSA03-LP" or something like that
[12:54] <eroomde> correct
[12:54] <eroomde> -LP
[12:54] <number10> i think my one is ublox 7 - I'll look at the ublox spec -as the fsa03 spec does not have the info
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[12:56] <fsphil> I think the regular fsa03 ran out so they just send the -lp model
[12:56] <fsphil> not sure which I got. will find out if I ever find that box :)
[12:57] <fsphil> I need to sort by bits and pieces a lot better
[12:57] <fsphil> (I nearly wrote alot there .. ta natrium42 ;-)
[12:58] <daveake> I got mine quite recently, and I think I actually know where the box is :D
[13:00] <fsphil> the discontinuation might actually be a good thing, it's forced us to look at making our own :)
[13:02] <daveake> :)
[13:03] <daveake> I'm happy to let others do that .... last time I made a PCB it was DIY with transfers :p
[13:04] <number10> NEO6 max current is 67ma so the fsa03-LP should be about the same
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[13:06] <number10> with the boards and the antennas whats the approximate cost of an neo6-q module I wonder
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[13:31] <Upu> number10 I can tell you exactly
[13:31] <number10> I thought you maybe able to :)
[13:31] <Upu> NEO-6Q-0 @ £18.63 ea ex VAT
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[13:31] <Upu> 1 x Delivery @ £12.00
[13:31] <eroomde> Upu: from who/wehere?
[13:32] <Upu> Belinda Proctor <belinda.proctor@alphamicro.net>
[13:32] <eroomde> ah alphamicro
[13:32] <eroomde> ta
[13:32] <Upu> Antennas were about £4.65 each
[13:32] <eroomde> also from AM?
[13:32] <Upu> however customs didn't clock us
[13:32] <Upu> no
[13:32] <Upu> rell.com in the US
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[13:32] <Upu> so Antennas were probably cheap
[13:33] <Upu> so less than £30 with a board probably number10
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[13:33] <number10> thats not bad - I was wondering what the pcb costs were
[13:33] <Darkside> Upu: you're bgoing to need to take care of the orders people had for me
[13:33] <Darkside> because i do not have time at the moment
[13:33] <Upu> no worries Darkside
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[13:33] <Upu> I think everyone has comps now and break out boards are on order
[13:34] <Upu> depends where you get the boards made number10
[13:34] <Upu> I use Olimex because I get a certain sense of excitement from faxing my credit card details to a foreign land I've never heard of
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[13:34] <number10> lol
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[13:35] <number10> dangerous living
[13:35] <eroomde> Upu: lol, me too
[13:35] <Upu> they are pretty cheap too
[13:35] <eroomde> and also they accept eagle files natively
[13:35] <Upu> yes
[13:35] <Upu> and they fix them when you can't do Eagle properly
[13:35] <daveake> :)
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[13:37] <number10> Ive never messed around with pcb layout - you need a special sort of patience for that.
[13:37] <Darkside> hehe
[13:37] <Darkside> its fun!
[13:38] <SpeedEvil> PCB is like origami.
[13:38] <Darkside> i usually go by a set of rules
[13:38] <SpeedEvil> Single layer PCB especially so.
[13:38] <Darkside> then start playing around until things work
[13:38] <eroomde> i think it's fun too
[13:38] <Darkside> oh god single layer
[13:38] <eroomde> even if i get it wrong every so often
[13:38] <Darkside> fuck that shit
[13:38] <number10> i realised that the fun had gone from electronics when I could see the silk screen for C55 but could not see the capacitor let alone get a scope probe on it
[13:38] <Darkside> pardon the french
[13:38] <Darkside> but oh hell no
[13:38] <Darkside> double layer of bust for me
[13:38] <Upu> its ok but hugely frustrating till you get it, once you get it, its just less frustrating
[13:38] <Darkside> sadlt
[13:39] <Darkside> ack
[13:39] <eroomde> 4 layers is actually the way to go
[13:39] <Darkside> hahahah eroomde
[13:39] <Darkside> i wish
[13:39] <eroomde> once you have 4, you won;t want to go 2 again
[13:39] <Darkside> seeedstudio don't do 4
[13:39] <eroomde> but seriously
[13:39] <Darkside> and i don't have the $$$ for 4-layer PCBs
[13:39] <eroomde> it lets you layout really nicely, and you get a massive boost in emi resistance
[13:39] <Darkside> i do want to try 4-layer sometime though
[13:39] <eroomde> internal power and gnd layer, and just signals on the top and bottom
[13:39] <Darkside> yeah thats pretty cool
[13:40] <eroomde> no awkward antlers to get power and gnd to random components, just drop a via down right by their power and gnd pins
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[13:40] <Darkside> i usually have ground planes on the top and bottom layers
[13:40] <eroomde> tent your vias
[13:40] <eroomde> i didn't on B2
[13:40] <Darkside> which gets ground everywhere
[13:40] <eroomde> mistake
[13:40] <Darkside> yeah, i tent all vias
[13:40] <number10> you would do it differntly ;)
[13:40] <Darkside> except for 2 on the micronut
[13:40] <Darkside> i wanted to be able to tap into the serial lines going to the gps
[13:41] <Upu> 2 sided is all I'm doing :)
[13:42] <SpeedEvil> What is a tented via?
[13:42] <SpeedEvil> I should know this - but I've not gotten many PCBs made.
[13:42] <Darkside> a via with solder mask over the top
[13:42] <Darkside> wait, is solder mask the right term?
[13:42] <number10> I have 3 FSA-03s - so once I have lost three payloads thats it (I think - unless this HAB lark gets me hooked)
[13:42] <SpeedEvil> Ah
[13:43] <eroomde> solder mask / solderresist
[13:43] <SamSilver_> here is something the same but different http://www.altusmetrum.org/TeleMetrum/
[13:43] <Darkside> yeah i know that one...
[13:43] <eroomde> SpeedEvil: it makes it easier to drop vias down underneath things with ground pads, say
[13:43] <eroomde> not that you should be really
[13:43] <Darkside> their gps doesnt work above 18km afaik
[13:43] <eroomde> but occassionally needs must
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[13:44] <Upu> what does tent vias eman /
[13:44] <Upu> what does tent vias mean ?
[13:44] <daveake> what does eman mean>
[13:44] <Darkside> covering the vias with solder mask Upu
[13:44] <eroomde> 13:42 < Darkside> a via with solder mask over the top
[13:44] <Darkside> and you need to be doing that with ALL The vias on your pcb
[13:44] <Upu> ok
[13:44] <Darkside> Upu: all your breakouts vias needs to be tented
[13:44] <Darkside> well, allthe ones under the ublox module at least
[13:44] <Upu> think they did that for me
[13:44] <Darkside> this is from their spec
[13:45] <Upu> I'll check when I get boards back
[13:45] <Darkside> eagle does weird vias by default
[13:45] <Darkside> all square pads..
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[13:47] <eroomde> Upu: are there any of your breakout boards left for sale?
[13:47] <UpuWork> should be piles
[13:47] <eroomde> cool
[13:47] <eroomde> i might grab one then if i may
[13:47] <UpuWork> 160mmx100mm board
[13:47] <UpuWork> panelized
[13:47] <UpuWork> sure
[13:47] <number10> wait untill he tests it eroomde ;)
[13:47] <Darkside> UpuWork: i might need to order some ublox modules through you at some point
[13:47] <eroomde> the conference put me in the mood to make another flight computer
[13:47] <eroomde> badger2 was vintage 2009
[13:47] <Darkside> i wonder if i could get them sans-vat
[13:48] <eroomde> i think tech has moved on a bit since then
[13:48] <Darkside> i still want to fly a raspberry pi based SSTV payload
[13:48] <UpuWork> well I'd have to pay the vat Darkside
[13:48] <UpuWork> btu sure I'll sort that out for you
[13:51] <programax> I'm amazed how active this channel is
[13:51] <UpuWork> yeah its grown alot
[13:52] <programax> 75 people in here :)
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[14:07] <SpeedEvil> Now that analog TV has been turned off.
[14:07] <SpeedEvil> Is there anyone actually using those wavebands?
[14:13] <eroomde> programax: it's wonderful how busy it has become
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[14:13] <eroomde> it's a good hobby with a good community
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[14:15] <number10> SpeedEvil they plan to use the bande - whitespace
[14:15] <number10> bands
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[14:16] <number10> one of the founders of CSR is working on something http://www.neul.com/
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[14:28] <eroomde> Upu: that camera you found looks nice
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[14:37] <jenny_> Hi
[14:38] <jonsowman> hi jenny_
[14:38] <WillDuckworth> hi
[14:40] <jenny_> I have ordered an arduino board and a NTX2 transmitter for my groups balloon project, and I just need to sort out the power supply (lithium ion batteries?) and a GPS
[14:40] <eroomde> talk to Upu about a GPS
[14:40] <daveake> Lithium Energizer are better
[14:40] <jenny_> The arduino uno says it operates at 5v and says input voltage between 7-12v, but i am unsure about the voltage i should supply
[14:40] <Dan-K2VOL> jenny_ use energizer lithium AAs
[14:40] <eroomde> We all swear by Energizer Lithium Ultimate AA batteries
[14:41] <daveake> :)
[14:41] <eroomde> Dan-K2VOL: yo
[14:41] <Dan-K2VOL> too bad we don't get an advertizing payment from that!
[14:41] <Dan-K2VOL> ed, thank you for the nice comments!
[14:41] <eroomde> i wanted to chat to you about ultrasonics for balloon size measurement at some point
[14:41] <jenny_> how many? I have seen the are 1.5v each so would what voltage would i need??
[14:41] <daveake> I prefer the Arduino Mini Pro 3.3V as it connects to 3.3V logic directly
[14:41] <eroomde> 4 is common
[14:42] <Dan-K2VOL> jenny_ consider the energizer lithium AAs to be 1.6-1.8 volts
[14:42] <eroomde> if you use a battery holder, make sure the batteries are securely taped in to the holder and that the holder itself is securely strapped down to your payload
[14:42] <Dan-K2VOL> eroomde, would love to chat about that, was just talking to a group of accoustic mathematicians about that this week
[14:42] <eroomde> i'm amazed at the number of launches i help with where the batteries are just plonked in the holder and the always pop out on a tough landing
[14:43] <jenny_> I was considering securly taping them in. I dont want them falling out mid flight!
[14:43] <WillDuckworth> put 4 batteries in a holder - use a '9-volt' style connector which can be attached when needed
[14:43] <WillDuckworth> suggestion ^
[14:43] <eroomde> Dan-K2VOL: interesting. I'm interested in intrumenting a balloon by building a flight computer to go in the neck to meaure temperatures, differential pressure, absolute pressure, and size
[14:43] <daveake> See http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/l91.pdf for voltage curves etc
[14:43] <eroomde> i was thinking about using ultrasonics to find the neight of the top of the balloon above the neck
[14:43] <daveake> And put tape round the holder
[14:43] <costyn> eroomde: pretty cool
[14:44] <eroomde> i'm not sure what the performance will be like in low pressure helium
[14:44] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm I suppose you could eroomde, though I was thinking more of finding the resonant frequency or harmonics of the gas bubble to measure volume
[14:44] <eroomde> hrm
[14:44] <eroomde> interesting
[14:45] <Dan-K2VOL> good point, wolframalpha.com is a great help for that calculation
[14:45] <jenny_> So.. just to confirm, 4 energizer lithium AA batteries will be suitable to power the tracker?
[14:46] <Dan-K2VOL> eroomde: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=He+speed+of+sound+at+20km
[14:46] <WillDuckworth> yes jenny_
[14:46] <eroomde> jesus it really is skynet
[14:46] <Dan-K2VOL> hahahaha yes
[14:47] <costyn> you can even ask it for speed of sound of helium at specific temperatures
[14:47] <eroomde> it infers that, even
[14:47] <eroomde> jenny_: yep you'll be in good shape
[14:48] <eroomde> Dan-K2VOL: how do you plan to excite the helium?
[14:48] <Dan-K2VOL> with a few candles and some chocolate
[14:48] <eroomde> 'hey helium! we're going to disney land!'
[14:48] <costyn> Dan-K2VOL: :)
[14:48] <eroomde> oh too slow
[14:49] <eroomde> and too prepubescent
[14:49] <Dan-K2VOL> eroomde, that is TBD in reality
[14:49] <eroomde> just playing with alpha, it's nice that helium is basically the most ideal of ideal gasses
[14:49] <Dan-K2VOL> and I need a few chuckles on what feels like monday mornign!
[14:49] <eroomde> so that should make modelling it a lot easier
[14:51] <Dan-K2VOL> some sort of audio speaker I would imagine, to sweep through the likely audio ranges and measure the resonance with a microphone or transducer. If you do that continuously you should be able to tease out the resonant peaks
[14:51] <Dan-K2VOL> using an FFT maybe?
[14:51] <Dan-K2VOL> spectral analysis right?
[14:52] <eroomde> yup
[14:52] <Laurenceb> how about an IR ranger ?
[14:52] <eroomde> or just white noise
[14:52] <eroomde> and fft
[14:52] <Dan-K2VOL> oh that makes sense
[14:53] <Laurenceb> audiophiles
[14:53] <eroomde> Laurenceb: well, measureing volume directly is obviously slightly more what we want
[14:53] <Zuph> AF FFT should be pretty easy, too.
[14:53] <eroomde> although a 'diameter' is obviously linearly dependant
[14:53] <eroomde> Zuph: yeah for sure
[14:54] <eroomde> especially with these new all singing mega all hail omg Cortex M4 parts
[14:54] <Laurenceb> praise be the Cortex M4
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[14:55] <Zuph> Seriously. I'm thinking about an M4 flight computer already.
[14:55] <Laurenceb> wait what for
[14:55] <Laurenceb> unless its a UAV obviously
[14:55] <eroomde> bragging rights
[14:55] <Laurenceb> lol
[14:55] <programax> You guys know much about gliders?
[14:55] <eroomde> but more seriously, you could do some real intelligence with an fpu
[14:55] <Zuph> Sloppier coding :-p
[14:56] <eroomde> it puts you within the reach of basic ML things
[14:56] <Laurenceb> farnell have mpu-6000 in stock now
[14:56] <eroomde> like multivariate linear rewgression
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[14:56] <Laurenceb> programax: yeah what do you want to know
[14:56] <Dan-K2VOL> Laurenceb well on the launch pad you really need to know volume precisely for some balloon flights
[14:56] <nelly11> Hi! quick question...does the flight path prediction software use wind data in its algorithm?
[14:56] <eroomde> yes
[14:56] <eroomde> from NOAA
[14:56] <programax> Well, first, gliders generaly need very large wings to generate enough lift since they won't have as much air flowing over the wings, right?
[14:56] <programax> since they are moving more slowly
[14:56] <Laurenceb> no
[14:56] <nelly11> cheers
[14:57] <Laurenceb> you just fly faster at altitude
[14:57] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL: Thinking about volume measurement for SPs?
[14:57] <eroomde> it gets a 0.5 x 0.5 degree x 3hour x 40ish different heights grid of wind vectors
[14:57] <Dan-K2VOL> definitely zuph
[14:57] <programax> was that to me, Laurence?
[14:57] <eroomde> and it just does a 4d interpolation in that dataset
[14:57] <eroomde> programax: nelly11
[14:57] <Laurenceb> programax: yes
[14:57] <eroomde> Laurenceb: not strictly true
[14:57] <Laurenceb> lift to drag is approximately constant
[14:58] <eroomde> the flow conditions chance
[14:58] <Laurenceb> yes
[14:58] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL: Cool. Cortex-M4 would make it super easy, it can generate the noise too.
[14:58] <Laurenceb> but roughly
[14:58] <programax> hehee I think that was getting to my second question. You skipped ahead :D
[14:58] <eroomde> not even sure if it's roughly
[14:58] <Laurenceb> well for rogallos
[14:58] <programax> I was going to ask that because the atmosphere is less dense at higher altitudes does that mean I must compensate with either bigger wings or by moving faster?
[14:58] <eroomde> if your glider if getting into compressiblew flows (about say mach 0.4) then things change and you need A Plan
[14:58] <programax> sounds like "yes"
[14:58] <Laurenceb> imo unlikely
[14:59] <Laurenceb> unless you want to launch from 30km or something
[14:59] <eroomde> that's 120m/s at 20km
[14:59] <eroomde> very likely
[14:59] <Laurenceb> i was launching from 11km
[14:59] <programax> my thought is to balloon up then release and glide back down
[14:59] <eroomde> Dan-K2VOL: it'd be very useful to know
[14:59] <Laurenceb> L/D was very consistent on the descent
[14:59] <eroomde> and fascinating
[14:59] <programax> rather than have a parachute or suffer the NASA style reentry
[14:59] <Dan-K2VOL> indeed eroomde!
[14:59] <Laurenceb> programax: i spent ages working on a rogallo wing - google it
[15:00] <Laurenceb> worked well in a test from 11km altitude
[15:00] <Dan-K2VOL> and a very nice science demo telemetry variable for people to watch as the pressure drops
[15:00] <Laurenceb> nice stable glide, but the control broke
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[15:00] <Laurenceb> so it wasnt steered
[15:01] <programax> woh neat
[15:01] <Laurenceb> id like to do another flight but im too busy
[15:01] <Laurenceb> its not hard to do, you just need to make sure nothings going to break :P
[15:01] <eroomde> programax: parachuters are cool!
[15:01] <programax> I feel like the advantage to some sort of controlled decent like that is you can have the thing steer itself back home
[15:01] <programax> instead of trying to find where it landed
[15:01] <Laurenceb> yeah
[15:01] <Laurenceb> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/10/20/shuttleworth_ubuntu_12_04/
[15:02] <Laurenceb> "The next version will be called Precise Pangolin." *facepalm*
[15:03] <Laurenceb> programax: my code is up on the ukhas wiki - i used atmega168 and a melexis gyro
[15:03] <Laurenceb> and lassen iq gps, obviously now youd use ublox5/6
[15:03] <programax> I plan to code it up myself. I love programming
[15:04] <programax> but I may ask you later for that as a reference
[15:04] <eroomde> i rememeber melexis gyros
[15:04] <Laurenceb> they are still nice
[15:04] <Laurenceb> ~0 drift
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[15:04] <eroomde> i'd quite like a parafoil return
[15:04] <programax> woh
[15:04] <programax> how does it get that?
[15:04] <Laurenceb> parafoils can tangle
[15:05] <Laurenceb> programax: made in soviet russia
[15:05] <eroomde> Laurenceb: yes i know
[15:05] <eroomde> the advantage of working of an extraplanetary parachute consultant is i can read about ways to mitigate that ;)
[15:05] <Laurenceb> well.. origional design is from russian air force aiui
[15:06] <Laurenceb> my rogallo hit some pretty bad turbulence - several times it was almost upside down
[15:06] <programax> is there any particular reason to use a parachute or a rogallo wing over say fixed wings like a normal glider?
[15:06] <SamSilver_> programax: have you seen this http://www.gpsboomerang.com/
[15:06] <programax> I suppose they can be packed up
[15:06] <programax> I haven't. Checking
[15:07] <eroomde> programax: there are legal questions
[15:07] <eroomde> but the area is a grey as it gets
[15:07] <programax> really??
[15:07] <eroomde> yes
[15:07] <Laurenceb> when does a chute become a wing
[15:07] <eroomde> UAVs in controlled aerospace etc
[15:07] <programax> because it qualifies as a UAV which might be some sort of legal thing?
[15:07] <Laurenceb> yes
[15:07] <programax> ah
[15:07] <programax> man, that's lame :/
[15:07] <eroomde> it certainly is a legal thing, if it's classed as a uav
[15:07] <eroomde> what country are tyou in?
[15:07] <Laurenceb> a fixed wing is pretty clearly a UAV
[15:07] <programax> SamSilver woh, exactly what I was thinking!
[15:07] <programax> I'm in the US
[15:08] <eroomde> programax: i think there are reasonably tight rules in the US
[15:08] <eroomde> try diydrones.com for more info
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[15:09] <Dan-K2VOL> programax the amateur ballooning community does not currently have a coherent answer for the legality of amateur balloon launched UAVs
[15:09] <Dan-K2VOL> in the USA
[15:09] <programax> cool
[15:09] <programax> yeah, I did a bit of normal balloon legallity research
[15:09] <programax> GPS cuts off at some height, can't use cell frequencies at altitude
[15:09] <programax> gotta contact the FAA
[15:10] <Dan-K2VOL> GPS does not cut off if you purchase the correct one
[15:10] <programax> if I do plan to transmit it will have to be powerful, so possibly use a ham radio which requires a license
[15:10] <programax> I was told that there is some legal issue where all GPS devices themselves cut out at like 66,000 feet os some such
[15:10] <programax> *or some such
[15:10] <SamSilver_> programax: move to canada > http://members.shaw.ca/sonde/
[15:10] <Dan-K2VOL> we really need a primer for this hobby with an FAQ
[15:11] <Laurenceb> ublox5/6 and lassen iq are ok gps modules for use at altitude
[15:11] <programax> I'm in Ohio. I could drive up to Canada easily enough
[15:11] <Zuph> programax: The exact law states if the GPS is above 60kfeet AND traveling faster than 600 mph (or some similar high speed), then it must cut out.
[15:11] <programax> so a launch from within Canada is possible if that would be better
[15:11] <Dan-K2VOL> where in OH programax are you?
[15:11] <Zuph> programax: above 60kfeet but slow? fine. below 60kfeet but fast? fine.
[15:11] <programax> Laurence hrmm I should ook those up then
[15:12] <Zuph> programax: Problem is, GPS manufacturers interpret it weird. So you have to buy a verified high altitude gps.
[15:12] <programax> Zuph oh, I see. Well then it might be fine. My balloon should be a slow assent and the glider should assure a slow decent
[15:12] <programax> yeah, that makes sense
[15:12] <Laurenceb> well actually
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[15:12] <Laurenceb> lassen iq can screw up on sudden altitude changes
[15:13] <eroomde> we need zeusbot to have a concise answer
[15:13] <Laurenceb> my lassen iq on the rogallo continued up for 70m higher after the glider released
[15:13] <Laurenceb> ublox would never do that :P
[15:13] <eroomde> !cocom <- this command should explain the rules and link to the ublox and lassen
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[15:14] <Zuph> Heh, does GLONASS have altitude/speed restrictions like GPS?
[15:14] <Dan-K2VOL> programax keep an eye on this project, http://www.ihabproject.com/ it's an amateur doing the same thing in Iowa. Bear in mind that he's doing things that are considered not legal by the current FAA regulations. He says that he's got a private approval based on future-to-be-released regulation changes
[15:17] <programax> lucky :D :D
[15:18] <programax> but yeah, that is perfect!
[15:18] <programax> thank you guys so much
[15:18] <Laurenceb> personally id build a rogallo, but thats just me :P
[15:19] <eroomde> yeah we know :p
[15:19] <Zuph> Laurenceb: Have you had a chance to play with the Lunix st-link stuff?
[15:19] <Laurenceb> nope
[15:19] <Laurenceb> just been using serial bootloader
[15:19] <programax> yeah, I'm still curious about the benefits of paracute/rogallo/fixed wings
[15:19] <programax> over each other
[15:19] <Laurenceb> stloader.py or whatever its called
[15:19] <programax> rogallo might not have these special restrictions? Same with parachute?
[15:20] <Laurenceb> rogallo is a 'parachute'
[15:20] <programax> right
[15:20] <Laurenceb> as it has fabric lifting surfaces
[15:20] <Laurenceb> :P
[15:20] <Zuph> Laurenceb: rgr. Got it to work like a snap with the next F4-Discovery. Still having issues with the F1 Discovery.
[15:20] <programax> oh, lunch time
[15:20] <programax> bbl
[15:20] <Laurenceb> nice
[15:20] <Laurenceb> you have an F4 discovery?
[15:21] <Zuph> Yeah, got it for free.
[15:21] <Laurenceb> grr Farnell still has no stock :(
[15:21] <Laurenceb> did you need a new linker script?
[15:22] <Zuph> Still just compiling examples that come with everything pre-canned.
[15:22] <Laurenceb> ok
[15:22] <Zuph> Haven't had a chance to *really* dig in.
[15:22] <Laurenceb> well if it compiles thats good
[15:23] <Laurenceb> programax: rogallo is stable and easy to control
[15:23] <Zuph> Yeah. I've been using the Codesourcery toolchain, because I'm too lazy to recompile summon-arm-toolchain with M4 support.
[15:23] <Laurenceb> fixed wings can go into spiral dives and all sorts of really bad stuff
[15:23] <Laurenceb> hmm aiui codesourcery maths lib is faster
[15:24] <eroomde> Dan-K2VOL: i will stay in touch on the cavity resonance thing
[15:24] <Laurenceb> not sure if thats still the case, but floating point on my f1 is really fast
[15:24] <eroomde> it's got me thinking
[15:24] <Laurenceb> ~50 clk/flop
[15:24] <Zuph> Wow, that's pretty good.
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[15:25] <Laurenceb> ive seen some poor benchmarks for plain gcc
[15:25] <Zuph> Maybe I'll stick with the codesourcery toolchain. Certainly was easier than rolling my own.
[15:25] <Laurenceb> presently in getting ~equal with Keil on F1
[15:26] <eroomde> Laurenceb programax the issue with rogallos is their control at high altitude
[15:26] <Laurenceb> yeah
[15:26] <eroomde> in that they're much less stable
[15:26] <UpuWork> afternoon
[15:26] <eroomde> this is true of non fixed wing stuff in general
[15:26] <eroomde> normally you rely on added mass effects
[15:26] <Dan-K2VOL> cool eroomde
[15:26] <eroomde> so the entrained fly around the wing
[15:27] <eroomde> that takes your system centre of gravity up towards the wing
[15:27] <eroomde> but in thing air, it's right down near the payload and the thing is much less stable as a result
[15:27] <eroomde> thin air*
[15:28] <eroomde> and you're more likely to get a collapse of your wing
[15:28] <eroomde> if it's inflatable
[15:28] <Laurenceb> interesting
[15:28] <eroomde> it's partly what's ruled out parafoils for mars
[15:29] <eroomde> and it's also the mechanism that decides between whether parachutes cone or glide steadily
[15:29] <eroomde> they tend to glide at lower alts as the CoG is up towards the canopy and that's the more stable solution
[15:30] <eroomde> but at higher alts they can cone as the CoG is much lower
[15:31] <eroomde> that's partly why, after balloon burst on HAB payload videos, you tend to see them whizzing round at huge speeds
[15:31] <eroomde> and stabilising as they descend
[15:37] <SpeedEvil> 'entrained fly around the wing' ?
[15:38] <eroomde> s/fly/air
[15:49] <Laurenceb> bbl
[15:57] Nick change: SamSilver_ -> SamSilver
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[16:11] <edmoore> Dan-K2VOL / Zuph : shame you are not using iridium - http://www.sarantel.com/products/sl3101
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[16:18] <Dan-K2VOL> edmoore, I am trying my darndest to do so
[16:19] <Dan-K2VOL> 'Ive go a delorme inreach on pre-order
[16:19] <edmoore> that antenna looks the business
[16:19] <edmoore> and a bit more robust to bashes and knocks
[16:19] <Dan-K2VOL> quite!
[16:19] <Dan-K2VOL> have you seen the inreach edmoore?
[16:20] <edmoore> nope?
[16:20] <edmoore> link me up
[16:20] <Dan-K2VOL> k
[16:20] <Dan-K2VOL> http://shop.delorme.com/OA_HTML/DELibeCCtpSctDspRte.jsp?section=10820&minisite=10020
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[16:21] <edmoore> wow
[16:21] <edmoore> the price is right too
[16:22] <Dan-K2VOL> Here are the high points we care about: the built in tracking goes at 10 min intervals and includes altitude, heading, speed, and lat/lon
[16:22] <edmoore> if you accidently exceed 60,000ft?
[16:22] <Dan-K2VOL> two-way messaging pole to pole, with 1 to 6 minute latency
[16:23] <Dan-K2VOL> unknown at this point, but presumably you hack/wire your own GPS into it
[16:24] <Dan-K2VOL> and the data plans are affordable, at least for us, useful plans are between $25USD per month and $50 USD per month. White star's 2 day mission will likely run us an extra $50 of data overage charge, but that's still great
[16:25] <SpeedEvil> It's really quite modest subs
[16:27] <Dan-K2VOL> I really, really, want it to be hackable to use like Alexei did for the FindMeSpot
[16:27] <edmoore> yeah
[16:27] <edmoore> definitely worth it
[16:28] <Zuph> edmoore: re iridium: there are some oem modems in the affordable range (~$400), but they're not selling if you aren't a reseller.
[16:29] <Zuph> Honestly, even if the delorme proves completely worthless to hack at, it'll be worth it for the bare modem alone.
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[16:30] <edmoore> yup
[16:30] <SpeedEvil> Is it talking only to the delorme centre?
[16:38] <Zuph> SpeedEvil: Presumably all data goes through delorme. No telling for sure until it's been sliced up.
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[17:51] <NigeyS> ping RocketBoy
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[18:03] <SAIDias> Howdy
[18:03] <NigeyS> hey Marshal
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[18:15] Nick change: SAIDias -> W0OTM
[18:15] <W0OTM> thanks, didnt realize how I was logged in
[18:17] <NigeyS> lol
[18:24] <RocketBoy> NigeyS: you called
[18:25] <NigeyS> i did, did you get the email with the link to telem from fridays launch ?
[18:25] <RocketBoy> yes - thanks - is there anything particular I should look at?
[18:26] <NigeyS> nothing specific, but the ascent rate at 7.2km when we lost contact was still about 0.8m/s .. was a bit surprised at that, by all rights it should have burst before..
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[18:27] <RocketBoy> I have a suspicion its the stretch runaway thing happening
[18:28] <Laurenceb_> when?
[18:28] <RocketBoy> as the balloon gets pressurised
[18:28] <NigeyS> depends how quick it happens, the ballon mustve still been ascending, or floating a good 2 hours later for graham to have picked up the carrier, if the stretch / burst happens fairly quickly, that wont explain it ?
[18:29] <RocketBoy> it expands - stretches - which causes it to go up more - which in turn makes it expand more ...
[18:30] <RocketBoy> I'm going to try to synconise the footage i took last night against the pressure
[18:30] <NigeyS> oh, that will be interesting, is the video online anywhere yet ?
[18:30] <RocketBoy> I have a feeling that the pressure differential is quite low even when the balloon seems full
[18:31] <RocketBoy> na - I want to see if I can sync it first
[18:31] <NigeyS> okies :D
[18:32] <RocketBoy> I'll put some pressure cations on it
[18:32] <RocketBoy> captions
[18:32] <NigeyS> that'll be cool
[18:42] <Dan-K2VOL> rocketboy
[18:43] <RocketBoy> yo dan
[18:43] <Dan-K2VOL> awesome experimental work!
[18:44] <RocketBoy> yeah - it was simple enoght to do - finally got my ass in gear to do it
[18:44] <RocketBoy> the stretch is really obvious on the video
[18:45] <RocketBoy> I estimate it give about 1/3 more volume
[18:45] <Zuph> Neat
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[18:46] <RocketBoy> I'm going to tie the pressure data and video footage together to see how the pressure relates to the physical apperance
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[18:47] Nick change: andrew_apex_ -> andrew_apex
[18:54] <Dan-K2VOL> nice
[18:55] <Dan-K2VOL> I think that's a lot more volume change than the Angell & Pack 1960 paper saw
[18:55] <Dan-K2VOL> I wonder what your balloon is actually made of
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[18:59] <NigeyS> its a weird material, and bloody stinks when they burst !
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[19:04] Nick change: andrew_apex_ -> andrew_apex
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[19:28] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "[UKHAS] uBlox 6 Breakouts"
[19:36] <WillDuckworth> hey Upu - i'm interested, only if you've got a few spare!
[19:36] <Upu> sure
[19:37] <Laurenceb_> ooh brerakouts
[19:37] <Laurenceb_> pic?
[19:37] <Upu> sec
[19:38] <Upu> http://imagebin.org/180059
[19:38] <Upu> now with 100% less silk screen where the solder is meant to go
[19:39] <NigeyS> hehe nice 1 upu
[19:40] <Upu> any comments appreciate Laurenceb you have more experience than me
[19:41] <Zuph> Upu: Any mechanical support for that big antenna?
[19:41] <Upu> yeah if you see underneth there is a plastic bit that glues to the PCB
[19:41] <Upu> sec
[19:42] <NigeyS> lots of araldite apparently
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[19:44] <Zuph> Alright. Expect the silk over the tented vias to be potentially unreadable, and you could stand to make the right angle traces a little less right angly, but nothing major.
[19:45] <Upu> http://imagebin.org/180061
[19:45] <NigeyS> upu what is the value of c1 ?
[19:45] <Upu> the antenna randomly stuck on the side of my old ISM break out
[19:45] <Upu> 100nF I think
[19:46] <NigeyS> ahh kk
[19:46] <Upu> or 10 ? I'll have a wizz back through the logs
[19:46] <Laurenceb_> looks good
[19:46] <NigeyS> 0603 im assuming
[19:46] <Laurenceb_> is there a cutout for the sant in the dimension layer?
[19:46] <Zuph> I like the way that antenna snaps on.
[19:46] <Upu> yes
[19:47] <Laurenceb_> cool
[19:47] <Upu> dunno if they can do that though but I did do it as dimension layer
[19:47] <Laurenceb_> one thing - tented vias can sometimes have small bits of exposed copper
[19:47] <Upu> otherwise need file
[19:47] <Upu> needle
[19:47] <Laurenceb_> due to the surface tension of the solder stop
[19:47] <Laurenceb_> so the tented vias under the module - maybe move them further from the pads
[19:47] <Laurenceb_> or they might short
[19:48] <Laurenceb_> i tend to put kapton tape under modules
[19:49] <Upu> bit late now already submitted it
[19:49] <Zuph> ping Dan-K2VOL
[19:49] <Upu> we'll see
[19:49] <Laurenceb_> ok, itll probably be ok
[19:56] <Laurenceb_> http://www.sparkfun.com/
[19:56] <Laurenceb_> that thing sucks
[19:56] <NigeyS> the dev board ?
[19:58] <Laurenceb_> yes
[20:00] <Laurenceb_> ooh soyuz recheduled to tomorrow
[20:00] <Laurenceb_> should be good
[20:00] <earthshine> Is James going for a transatlantic crossing?
[20:02] Lunar_Lander (~Miranda@p54A067C9.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[20:02] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[20:12] <NigeyS> evening kev
[20:13] <NigeyS> earthshine, dont think so ?
[20:13] <earthshine> Just wondering why he was in Boston
[20:14] <NigeyS> ohh, forgot he was off to the states
[20:14] <RocketBoy> tis an interesting hypothesis
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> hey NigeyS RocketBoy
[20:15] <Lunar_Lander> and earthshine
[20:15] <earthshine> 'allo
[20:17] <Lunar_Lander> I just want to remind that thanks to earthshine I got my arduino uno
[20:17] <Lunar_Lander> when in the Atmel shortage the DIP version was sold out almost everywhere
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[20:19] <earthshine> :)
[20:19] andrew_apex (~chatzilla@2.27.91.69) joined #highaltitude.
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> and Schnitzel is good!
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[20:24] <nickolai> hello all
[20:25] GW8RAK (~chatzilla@host-78-150-222-42.as13285.net) joined #highaltitude.
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> hi nickolai GW8RAK
[20:25] <GW8RAK> Hi Lunar_Lander
[20:25] <nickolai> hi Lunar_Lander, how's it going?
[20:26] Paradoxial (~Paradoxia@pool-108-28-22-94.washdc.fios.verizon.net) joined #highaltitude.
[20:26] <GW8RAK> 2 * FT790 on ebay at the moment.
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[20:27] <Lunar_Lander> I'm good, thanks
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander> cause I had schnitzel!
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander> hi Paradoxial
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[20:27] <Paradoxial> Hi Lunar
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander> and Schnitzel is a good meal
[20:28] <nickolai> sounds good right about now, i've yet to eat lunch
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:29] <nickolai> i'm struggling with my lassen iq right about now
[20:29] <NigeyS> nickolai, welcome to the lassen club :)
[20:30] <nickolai> thanks NigeyS :)
[20:30] <nickolai> I like the small form factor and the pin breakout (even if it is nonstandard), but the sensitivity is surprisingly poor
[20:32] <Paradoxial> http://youtu.be/rvDqoxMUroA
[20:34] <nickolai> NigeyS, have you had trouble with the Lassen in cloudy weather?
[20:34] <NigeyS> haha ive had trouble with it outside in clear skies dude
[20:35] <NigeyS> it is a right bitch to get a lock
[20:35] <NigeyS> make sure you have a good groundplane though, it helps.. a little
[20:35] <nickolai> ok, so it must be the clouds right now
[20:35] <nickolai> i just put one on
[20:36] <nickolai> it's about 2.5"x3"
[20:36] <Laurenceb_> it takes 20 minutes to get a lock from cold
[20:36] <nickolai> and the unit now sees 1 satellite
[20:36] <Laurenceb_> itll get them one by one
[20:36] <nickolai> 20 minutes with the lassen? wow
[20:36] <daveake> My Lassen got stuck when it reached 13,444 metres ....
[20:36] <RocketBoy> The things I have found that need to be addressed with the lassen are 1) put the antenna on a groundplane 2) if you have any sources of RF noise (e.g video cameras) then move then away or shield them. Never had a problem outside of that
[20:36] <daveake> .... mind you it was -50C
[20:36] <daveake> It started working again further up
[20:37] <nickolai> hm, interesting
[20:37] <Laurenceb_> but more importantly, BACKUP BATTERY
[20:37] <Laurenceb_> then it gets lock in ~30s with clear sky
[20:37] <nickolai> oh rly? i've normally not bothered with those
[20:37] <nickolai> hey i'm up to 2 satellites!
[20:38] <nickolai> god damn this is a POS lol
[20:38] <nickolai> how big of a ground plane have you all used?
[20:38] <Laurenceb_> none
[20:38] <RocketBoy> about 2 x 2
[20:38] <RocketBoy> (inches)
[20:38] <daveake> feet or metres?
[20:39] <daveake> lol
[20:39] <RocketBoy> I typically use beer can for a ground plane
[20:39] <daveake> Once they have a lock, they're fine IME, except for losing the altitude in my last flight (poss temp related)
[20:39] <nickolai> lol
[20:39] <daveake> mmmBeer
[20:39] <nickolai> IME?
[20:39] <RocketBoy> - but coke cans work just as well ;-)
[20:40] <daveake> Decaf or zero?
[20:40] <RocketBoy> well the zero makes it jitter a bit
[20:40] <daveake> Or does only full-fat original work?
[20:40] <daveake> lol
[20:40] <Laurenceb_> i never used a ground plane
[20:40] <RocketBoy> I guess it depends on the antenna
[20:40] <nickolai> why not? it's easy enough - you just get a piece of metal and stick it on there
[20:40] <daveake> Possibly the smaller ones need it more
[20:40] <Laurenceb_> just put a backup coin cell on and took it out for half an hour
[20:41] <Laurenceb_> got a lock in 30s after that
[20:41] <NigeyS> :o
[20:41] <Laurenceb_> no i used 15x15mm ant
[20:41] <Laurenceb_> about the smallest
[20:41] <Laurenceb_> its not designed to start from cold, it needs ram and RTC backup
[20:42] <nickolai> ah, interesting
[20:42] <nickolai> back down to 1 satellite :(
[20:42] <Laurenceb_> you need a clear sky
[20:43] <nickolai> it appears so
[20:43] <nickolai> that's kind of lame, that this unit is so weak a cloud will drop the signal
[20:44] <RocketBoy> must be something wrong - its not that poor
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[20:46] <nickolai> I was able to get signal with it a couple days ago before it was overcast, but it only saw ~4 or 5 satellites
[20:46] <nickolai> to be fair, it doesn't have fully clear sky, it's looking out a window
[20:46] <nickolai> tilted just slighty so it's not quite facing the ceiling
[20:46] <RocketBoy> I have to say that the UBlox6 is yards better - but the IQ worked well for me on 15+ flights
[20:47] <nickolai> good to know, i'm planning to fly it this weekend
[20:48] <RocketBoy> ah - are you the guy i supplied balloons to a couple of weeks ago (I run RandomAerospace)
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[20:49] <nickolai> nope
[20:49] <RocketBoy> Ok - sorry
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[20:49] <nickolai> no worries, I'm in US actually, at Purdue
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[20:50] <RocketBoy> ta
[20:50] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[20:50] <Lunar_Lander> IN TIME EVERYTHING WILL BE ALRIGHT
[20:50] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[20:53] <Laurenceb_> its probably the window
[20:53] <Laurenceb_> is it double glased?
[20:54] <Laurenceb_> *glazed
[20:54] <Laurenceb_> most newer panels are low emissivity - they block GPS
[20:55] <daveake> With the Lassen I use an external antenna stuck outside the window
[20:57] <Dan-K2VOL> hi zuph
[20:57] <griffonbot> @apexhab: Remember #apexhab Alpha launches on Saturday at 11am BST. 434.650MHz Select 'ALPHA' in dl-fldigi. http://t.co/MVdcGEDN #ukhas [http://twitter.com/apexhab/status/127126296940646401]
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[20:59] <griffonbot> @danielsaul: RT @apexhab: Remember #apexhab Alpha launches on Saturday at 11am BST. 434.650MHz Select 'ALPHA' in dl-fldigi. http://t.co/MVdcGEDN #ukhas [http://twitter.com/danielsaul/status/127126807815266304]
[20:59] Action: fsphil-laptop gets the hint
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[21:20] <griffonbot> Received email: daveake "[UKHAS] The 6 Stages of HAB Expenditure"
[21:21] <Lunar_Lander> ROFL
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[21:22] <daveake> OK, I can't count :)
[21:22] <fsphil-laptop> haha
[21:22] <daveake> There were 6 before I edited it ...
[21:22] <NigeyS> awsome!
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[21:22] <fsphil-laptop> I'm at the car bit now :)
[21:23] <daveake> I'm been looking fondly at 4x4s ....
[21:23] <number10> very funny daveaske
[21:23] <number10> daveake
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[21:23] <daveake> ta :)
[21:24] <nickolai> how do i see that email?
[21:24] <daveake> Join the ukhas google group
[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> http://groups.google.com/group/ukhas/browse_thread/thread/2e4b5e13ac12e4bf
[21:25] <nickolai> ah, will do, thanks
[21:26] <nickolai> btw Laurencb_, it might be the window. I don't know how new it is but it's a factor I guess. I'll test it outside when it gets a tad bit warmer later this week
[21:27] <daveake> I used a Lassen for my last flight, with one of the little antennas, but for testing I bought the adapter and connected an external antenna, which I stuck to the outside of the window.
[21:34] <Laurenceb_> wow i cant believe bbc news
[21:34] <Laurenceb_> its like 100BC or something
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[21:35] <SpeedEvil> ??/
[21:36] <Laurenceb_> gaddaffi death shots
[21:36] <Laurenceb_> thats just screwed up to high hell
[21:36] <SpeedEvil> ah
[21:37] <NigeyS> doesnt that break the geneva convention ?
[21:37] <fsphil-laptop> 100BC with camera phones
[21:37] <Laurenceb_> even worse than 4chan yet its on national tv
[21:37] <SpeedEvil> Geneva convention does not generally apply to civil wars.
[21:38] <NigeyS> :/
[21:38] Action: SpeedEvil has no (working) TV.
[21:38] <daveake> I saw Hilary Clinton go "Wow!" when she read the news on her Blackberry earlier. Of course, she meant "Wow, my Blackberry is working again!".
[21:38] <Laurenceb_> lol
[21:38] <SpeedEvil> I love my blackberry
[21:38] <SpeedEvil> jam
[21:38] <Laurenceb_> rofl
[21:39] <SpeedEvil> Got a couple of jars from roadside blackberries.
[21:39] <SpeedEvil> well - pathside
[21:39] <BrainDamage> isn't a bit expensive mashing a cell phone to get food?
[21:39] <BrainDamage> ah, I see you can find them along roads there
[21:39] <daveake> Make an apple and blackberry crumble
[21:39] <Upu> very true daveake
[21:40] <daveake> With Steve Jobs, Bin Laden and Gaddafi all dead, look for a remake of "The Good, The Bad And The Ugly"
[21:40] <BrainDamage> berlusconi is still alive :/
[21:40] <daveake> lol
[21:41] <fsphil-laptop> I think he's a replicant .. it just has some bugs
[21:44] <griffonbot> @kylehotchkiss: RT @apexhab: Remember #apexhab Alpha launches on Saturday at 11am BST. 434.650MHz Select 'ALPHA' in dl-fldigi. http://t.co/MVdcGEDN #ukhas [http://twitter.com/kylehotchkiss/status/127138059614556160]
[21:44] <Laurenceb_> shouldnt that be the bad, the bad and the ugly
[21:45] <BrainDamage> you mean the bad, the bad, and the ugly-bad?
[21:45] <daveake> :D
[21:45] <griffonbot> @cuspaceflight: RT @apexhab: Remember #apexhab Alpha launches on Saturday at 11am BST. 434.650MHz Select 'ALPHA' in dl-fldigi. http://t.co/MVdcGEDN #ukhas [http://twitter.com/cuspaceflight/status/127138387579768832]
[21:45] <fsphil-laptop> I'm not sure I'm going to remember this launch on saturday. someone remind me
[21:45] <NigeyS> lol
[21:46] <jonsowman> sorry, i feel obliged to retweet launched from the cambridge site
[21:46] <fsphil-laptop> no worries :)
[21:46] <jonsowman> *launches
[21:47] <jonsowman> i'll stop spamming #ha
[21:47] <fsphil-laptop> I'm just making fun :)
[21:47] <NigeyS> ok, someone give me an object to image, im gonna jump on the big telescope in spain before moonrise
[21:47] <danielsaul> jonsowman: The fact you're part of #apexhab doesnt influence that decision?
[21:47] <Laurenceb_> what?
[21:47] <jonsowman> danielsaul: not in the least
[21:47] <danielsaul> :P
[21:47] <Laurenceb_> jump on the big telescope?
[21:47] <Lunar_Lander> hi jonsowman
[21:47] <fsphil-laptop> go for a nice globular NigeyS
[21:47] <jonsowman> hi Lunar_Lander
[21:48] <NigeyS> laurenceb yeah, i use some remote telescopes for astrophotography
[21:48] <NigeyS> ok bbs then :D
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[21:49] <Laurenceb_> nice
[21:49] <Laurenceb_> what diameter?
[21:50] <Laurenceb_> - the scope
[21:50] <NigeyS> i normally use a 16inch planewave
[21:51] <Laurenceb_> nice
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[21:51] <NigeyS> 23:51:20 ; One Click Plan by Nigel Smart, created Thu, 20 Oct 2011 21:51:10 UTC
[21:51] <NigeyS> 23:51:20 ;
[21:51] <NigeyS> 23:51:20 Start slew to M103...
[21:51] <NigeyS> M103 it is :)
[21:53] <Laurenceb_> http://www.flickr.com/photos/esa_events/6249046387/in/photostream <-cool shot
[21:53] <NigeyS> oo i like!
[21:53] <fsphil-laptop> sweet
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[21:56] <stilldavid> esa has been rockin' the good shots lately
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[22:12] <Lunar_Lander> good night
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[22:15] <hibby> hmm
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[22:16] <NigeyS> hey hibster
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[22:47] <hibby> yay
[22:47] <hibby> djing finished
[22:47] <hibby> hometime
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[22:59] <griffonbot> Received email: Craig Chapman "Re: [UKHAS] The 6 Stages of HAB Expenditure"
[23:03] <Laurenceb_> sounds worth a read
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[23:13] <NigeyS> i have way to many resistors :/
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[00:00] --- Fri Oct 21 2011