highaltitude.log.20111018

[00:03] <zyp> I've actually never used matlab, what am I missing?
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[00:04] <hibby> mats.
[00:04] <BrainDamage> an interpreted language with a _very_ large lib for engineering, math & science in general
[00:04] <hibby> lots of incredibly powerful maths and simulation software in.one suite
[00:05] <BrainDamage> if you don't need the libs, it's nothing better than any other interpreted language
[00:05] <hibby> im on it all day / every day at the moment..
[00:05] <BrainDamage> actually imo the syntax makes it slightly worse than others in that respect
[00:06] <zyp> I'm using python with pylab/numpy/scipy whenever I need something like that
[00:06] <zyp> mainly because I know python pretty well and can't be bothered to learn another language if I don't need it
[00:07] <hibby> ocht, once you know.c theyre all the same.
[00:08] <hibby> im battling with a sft keyboard, btw, hence the uncharacteristic mistakes.
[00:09] <hibby> as i appear to have borked nyy 8 hour old win7 install already.
[00:09] <hibby> back to linux for noobs like me....
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[00:54] <nickolai> hey Dan-K2VOL
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[01:03] <hibby> Dan-K2VOL: hey
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[06:20] <number10> morning
[06:21] <eroomde> morning number10
[06:21] <number10> nice to see you youngsters are up early ;)
[06:21] <eroomde> some of us have jobs :)
[06:22] <eroomde> it's a 13 mile cycle
[06:22] <eroomde> takes a good while
[06:22] <number10> thats not bad - how is the new house
[06:22] <eroomde> really liking it
[06:22] <eroomde> all is well, basically
[06:22] <eroomde> although i need to get some colder weather cycling gear
[06:23] <eroomde> it's got dark and cold in the mornings all of a sudden in the last week
[06:23] <number10> nice house , nice location, nice job thats great! - is getting colder - I dont know how people manage to cycle here in winter
[06:24] <number10> often people come in and say they came off - in ice
[06:24] <eroomde> yeah
[06:24] <eroomde> not looking forward to the ice
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[06:24] <eroomde> i'm not *that* commited to cycling
[06:25] <number10> is work - in town or out?
[06:25] <eroomde> out
[06:25] <eroomde> it's near a village called Watlington
[06:25] <SamSilver> bought some rocket but it went off before i could use it.
[06:26] <eroomde> so i cycle through the centre of town, down Cowley Road (not the most fun) then on the other side of the ring roud i've just got 10 miles of cruising through the country side
[06:26] <eroomde> one hill, but it's not too bad
[06:27] <number10> sounds like its nice for the summer - at least going out of town driving shouldnt be to bad
[06:27] <number10> I start here before 7:30 just to iss the traffic
[06:27] <number10> +m
[06:27] <eroomde> iss?
[06:27] <number10> miss
[06:27] <eroomde> oh miss
[06:27] <eroomde> you're at CC right?
[06:28] <number10> yes
[06:28] <eroomde> cool
[06:28] <eroomde> i used to live on gilbert road
[06:28] <eroomde> so it would have been a bit easier for me :)
[06:29] <number10> But you have a good job by the sounds of it there
[06:29] <eroomde> yeah i'm enjoying it
[06:29] <eroomde> and ox is nice
[06:30] <eroomde> not the most adventurous change of scene, going from cam to ox
[06:30] <eroomde> but it's very nice
[06:30] <eroomde> and very very very convenient for lonon
[06:30] <eroomde> london*
[06:31] <eroomde> there's the oxford tube, which is a coach service that goes every 15 mins, through the night too, with free wifi, quite comfy, and is £13 for a 5-day return
[06:31] <eroomde> and it stops off at the end of my road
[06:31] <number10> london - is that where you were before CU
[06:31] <eroomde> nope, but all (with a 95% confidence) my friends now live there
[06:32] <eroomde> after graduating
[06:32] <eroomde> so i'm often there
[06:32] <eroomde> + the odd random conference :)
[06:33] <number10> :) I have not seen yours yet - started looking yesterday - but thought I should do some work
[06:33] <eroomde> lol yes probably
[06:33] <eroomde> i'd wait for fsphil's version
[06:34] <eroomde> couldn't really see the slides on the streamed copy
[06:34] <number10> OK - I'll wait for that
[06:36] <eroomde> so you saw buzz come down at the weekend?
[06:37] <number10> I did not see it comming down, managed to get to the roadside where daveake was - after he got there
[06:37] <number10> so went with him across fields to locate
[06:38] <eroomde> ah cool
[06:38] <number10> I did not have internet connection and was heading towards newmarket - when I saw it burst on fldigi a lot further west than expected
[06:38] <eroomde> yeah there was a large emphasis on improving tools for chase cars at the conference
[06:38] <eroomde> adam and raniel are working on some awesome stuff
[06:38] <number10> I was driving and also trying to track - near on impossible
[06:38] <eroomde> :)
[06:39] <eroomde> i find it very difficult
[06:39] <eroomde> always like to have a radio man
[06:39] <eroomde> it's like being a fighter pilot
[06:39] <eroomde> except not at all
[06:39] <number10> Yes the stuff that they are working on sounds great - lots of effort being put in
[06:39] <number10> I was trying to get my wife to come along - but she wasnt ready
[06:40] <eroomde> WAG management is a tricky one
[06:40] <eroomde> I think james has given up
[06:40] <number10> I think I have aswell
[06:42] <number10> The idea with the HAB thing is to get my brothers boy interested - he is doing well at school and if continues to do well maybe get to cambridge
[06:42] <eroomde> ah grand
[06:43] <eroomde> well, you should come along with him to a CUSF launch
[06:43] <number10> yes, I have mentioned that - but he has to do a little bit of work forst and show more interest than "thats cool"
[06:43] <number10> first
[06:43] <eroomde> :)
[06:44] <eroomde> usually making a payload is enough to get you hooked
[06:44] <eroomde> write a CHDK script and put it on a canon, build a case for it and piggyback it onto a payload
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[06:44] <eroomde> seeing the pictures on the SD card after it lands is usually enough to get people hooked :)
[06:45] <number10> I got my brother to buy an A470 with that in mind
[06:45] <eroomde> ah awesome
[06:46] <eroomde> this photo was from a chdk camera on a piggyback
[06:46] <number10> the plan was that I build the controller - they do the payload and camera - and we all do some tracking of other peoples baloons first
[06:46] <eroomde> http://www.nivnac.co.uk/files/HAPSD_NOVA8/HAPS-D_pan1_quarter.jpg
[06:46] <eroomde> sounds like a really good plan
[06:46] <number10> thats a nice pic
[06:48] <eroomde> it was a fun flight
[06:48] <eroomde> launched before dawn
[06:51] <number10> some other nice pics on the site
[06:52] <number10> no planned launches on cusf - apart from this weekend as far as I can see
[06:53] <number10> is cusf as active now that you have graduated and moved away?
[06:54] <eroomde> yes indeed
[06:54] <eroomde> jonsowman and Randomskk and ejcweb are all cusf
[06:55] <eroomde> there was a brief talk on what cusf is up to in the lightning talks section at the end of the conference
[06:58] <number10> ah - the slides from that are online - great!
[06:59] <number10> martlet looks like a cool project
[06:59] <eroomde> when.....
[06:59] <eroomde> :)
[06:59] <eroomde> right bbl
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[08:41] <danbb> Hi all
[08:41] <Upu> morning
[08:42] <NigelMoby> Meh its cold! Morning all
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[08:42] <danbb> Im planning a high altitude project using an arduino board and an NTX2 transmitter.. A friend has said we can borrow his KYD TK-338 radio for the tracking. Would this be suitable?
[08:43] <UpuWork> Let me have a look
[08:43] <UpuWork> does it do USB/LSB ?
[08:45] <UpuWork> morning NigelMoby yeah its cold :)
[08:45] <danbb> Im not too sure.. all he said was "Detachable antenna to add something better and 3.5mm jack speaker output. Digital tuning. 70cm"
[08:45] <UpuWork> those bits are fine
[08:46] <UpuWork> but to get the range we use USB mode to transmit the data
[08:46] <NigelMoby> Hey upu
[08:46] <UpuWork> alot of handheld transcievers don't have the side band mode
[08:46] <danbb> I will ask if it does USB/LSB
[08:47] <UpuWork> but in theory yes you have the right set up
[08:48] <UpuWork> have you found the Wiki yet ?
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[08:49] <costyn> eroomde: awesome picture
[08:49] <danbb> yes it looks great and really helpful
[08:50] <UpuWork> have a good root around there and subscribe to the mailing list and hang about here :)
[08:52] <danbb> I know other people with radio I could potentialy borrow. So am I right in thinking the radio must be 70cm with USB/LSB. Then attach a good antenna??
[08:52] <UpuWork> yep
[08:52] <UpuWork> the antenna
[08:53] <UpuWork> can just be the rubber jobbie that comes with it for general tracking
[08:53] <UpuWork> Then for direction finding a Yagi is helpful
[08:53] <UpuWork> I just use a Diamond magmount on the roof of the car for chasing
[08:54] <danbb> OK thanks! I will ask around see if anyone has one of those radios I could borrow!
[08:55] <danbb> Howd I go about connecting the radio to the computer to use dl-fldigi to track? I have been told by some people I will need a TNC and others just an audio cable will do..
[09:03] <UpuWork> nah just a normal audio cable will do it
[09:04] <UpuWork> we don't do anything complex that needs TNC's
[09:04] <UpuWork> feed the audio in
[09:04] <UpuWork> dl-fldigi decodes it
[09:04] <number10> danbb, the best place to start is to read http://www.ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide
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[09:16] <number10> #habaltitude
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[09:19] <number10> mode/#habaltitude
[09:19] <number10> need to learn how to use irc webchat I think
[09:19] <jonsowman> what are you trying to do?
[09:20] <number10> I was trying co look at another channel, if it exeisted
[09:20] <number10> to
[09:20] <jonsowman> try /join #habaltitude
[09:21] <number10> thanks jonsowman
[09:22] <danbb> What type on antenna is http://ava.upuaut.net/files/antenna.jpg
[09:22] <danbb> of*
[09:23] <danbb> 1/4 radial?
[09:24] <number10> looks like it
[09:26] <jonsowman> yeah 1/4 wave whip
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[09:28] <danbb> Thanks, going to have a go at making one.
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[09:30] <UpuWork> http://ava.upuaut.net/files/2010-09-03%2019-26-16_0003.jpg
[09:30] <UpuWork> that gives dimensions
[09:30] <UpuWork> you don't need 4 radials 2 work fine
[09:31] <UpuWork> try make it as un spikey as possible, you can use copper tape as the radials on the bottom of the payload
[09:31] <griffonbot> @adamcudworth: Just found out I won an NTX2! Woo! Thanks @AnthonyStirk #UKHAS & radiometrix [http://twitter.com/adamcudworth/status/126228841940271104]
[09:31] <UpuWork> that was my first stab at it
[09:32] <UpuWork> you can use a thin copper strand, like the stuff in solid core cat 5 cable with a drinking straw on it to give it some ridgity
[09:32] <danbb> I will look into it, thanks
[09:33] <UpuWork> I need to remove sketch A from that picture as its wrong
[09:35] <UpuWork> there you go http://ava.upuaut.net/files/2010-09-03%2019-26-16_0003.jpg
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[09:46] <NigelMoby> Ooo my crapocam has arrived
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[09:50] <daveake> Oh nice :)
[09:51] <number10> daveake - did you solve the mystery of the memory card?
[09:51] <number10> was it a stowaway?
[09:52] <daveake> It fell out of my camera bag :D
[09:52] <daveake> I remembered there was a spare card in the bag
[09:53] <daveake> Oh, and did you see me mention yesterday that the cutdown triggered in the back of my car?
[09:53] <number10> no - i did not see that
[09:53] <number10> what happened
[09:54] <daveake> Well, first I noticed was that it started beeping as we were having our lunch :)
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[09:55] <daveake> Then yesterday I noticed that the balloon cord had been cut at the cutdown.
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[09:56] <daveake> I checked the photos of the payload after it landed, and the cord is clearly OK in those
[09:56] <daveake> So, the timeout code hit the cutdown in the back of the car; the battery voltage dropped; then the processor rebooted
[09:57] <daveake> Normally the timeout would stop when it knew it was falling.
[09:57] <number10> you did not set fire to anything then
[09:58] <daveake> However to prevent the cutdown triggering prematurely, I had the software wait till it hit 38km (it never did) before checking for a falling payload.
[09:58] <daveake> So it thought it was still flying, and allowed the timeout to happen.
[09:58] <number10> not that I was wishing a more dramatic end to the story ;)
[09:58] <daveake> No, it was only nichorme wire, inside some glass fibre sleeving
[09:58] <daveake> lol
[09:59] <griffonbot> Received email: Neil Baker "Re: [UKHAS] UKHAS 2011 Conference"
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[10:27] <eroomde> morning
[10:27] <NigelMoby> Morning ed
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[10:35] <WillDuckworth> poking ejcweb with pokey stick
[10:35] <NigelMoby> Lol Ello will
[10:35] <WillDuckworth> morning :)
[10:35] <ejcweb> WillDuckworth: poke felt :)
[10:36] <ejcweb> I've nearly got around to getting the code on github!
[10:36] <WillDuckworth> i think the conference has invigorated a few people
[10:36] <WillDuckworth> definitely got me thinking of some new ideas
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[10:37] <ejcweb> cool.
[10:37] <NigelMoby> Awsome, so when u doing a pico payload? :p
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[10:51] <SamSilver> I was invigorated by BUZZ > so i whipped this up over the weekend :P http://imgur.com/0QNmR
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[11:09] <griffonbot> Received email: steamfire@gmail.com "Re: [UKHAS] UKHAS 2011 Conference"
[11:13] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
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[12:21] <NigeyS> hm are al lipo and li-ion batteries 3.7v? :|
[12:21] <NigeyS> all*
[12:22] <Darkside> the cells are
[12:22] <GW8RAK> I think I'm going to have to give up on insurance for a balloon launch by the air cadets.
[12:22] <Darkside> most lithium chemistries have 3.7v cells
[12:22] <Darkside> just the weird ones that don't, like the energizer AAs
[12:22] <GW8RAK> Just going from person to person and no-one seems to know answers.
[12:22] <Darkside> lithium iron disulphide or something
[12:22] <GW8RAK> Very frustrating.
[12:22] <NigeyS> ahh brill, tnx Darkside
[12:23] Action: SpeedEvil ponders a UKHAS self-insurance pot.
[12:23] <NigeyS> wondering if i can replace the li-ion in this keychain with a direct power connection from the mai lipo
[12:23] <NigeyS> main*
[12:23] <GW8RAK> Speedevil, I'm trying the Met Office now to see what their insurance position is.
[12:24] <SpeedEvil> They self-insure.
[12:24] <GW8RAK> Perhaps sea landings are the best after all
[12:24] <GW8RAK> If they self insure they certainly won't want to take on liability for a cadet launch
[12:24] <SpeedEvil> Claims cost are around 30p/balloon.
[12:24] <NigeyS> what is the sticking point with insurance, is it not enough companies do it, or they dont know exactly what we do .. ?
[12:24] <SpeedEvil> IIRC
[12:25] <GW8RAK> They have no data and think that it is scientific, therefore there is money to be made
[12:25] <SpeedEvil> NigeyS: The problem is that any small wierd insurance for something nobody does may have - say - a pound of risk-related insuracne cost per launch - with a slice of profit in there.
[12:25] <NigeyS> ah, that's not so good :(
[12:25] <SpeedEvil> But the cost of getting that insurance is going to be substantial, as they have to work out what the risk is, and weite it up.
[12:25] <SpeedEvil> write
[12:25] <NigeyS> bah, sounds very ploitical tbh
[12:26] <GW8RAK> The evidence of risk, based on the groups launchings would have to be that the risk is minimal, but they wouldn't make much money if they charged £100 per launch
[12:27] <SpeedEvil> The met office (from memory) launched several thousand balloons in 2008-9, and had 3 claims totalling a little under a thousand pounds.
[12:27] <eroomde> When we have got insurance, they just charged their premium
[12:28] <eroomde> i.e. the minimum they could possibly charge for them to even think it's worth it
[12:28] <eroomde> which was $5k
[12:28] <GW8RAK> Unfortunately if the risk was higher, it would probably still be £5K
[12:28] <Darkside> we just go under a local amateur clubs insurance
[12:28] <Darkside> which we are all members of
[12:28] <Darkside> something like $25 million public liability
[12:29] <SpeedEvil> To be fair though, in many parts of australia, there isn't $25M worth of breakable stuff in range of a balloon, total.
[12:29] <SpeedEvil> :)
[12:30] <Darkside> cross-country powerlines would be the biggie
[12:31] <SpeedEvil> What are the y there - here I think they are 400kv+
[12:31] <Darkside> 275kv
[12:31] <Darkside> is the standard
[12:31] <NigeyS> better not try to get insurance for a foil balloon flight at low altitude then lol
[12:32] <Darkside> haha
[12:32] <Darkside> yup
[12:32] <NigeyS> i want to do a hydrogen pico
[12:32] <Darkside> don't put your name on the payload
[12:32] <NigeyS> but meh
[12:33] <NigeyS> Darkside, my name has to go on the next 1, its got a camera, and i want it back! :(
[12:33] <Darkside> haha
[12:33] <Darkside> chase it then
[12:33] <NigeyS> am doing
[12:34] <NigeyS> just got to strip these keychain cam down a bit, 12grams is way to heavy
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[12:35] <NigeyS> hey juxta !
[12:38] <juxta> hey NigeyS :)
[12:38] <Darkside> juxta: gonna make it on friday night?
[12:39] <juxta> Darkside, yeah I think I can
[12:39] <Darkside> awesome
[12:39] <Darkside> what did you think of the launch video?
[12:39] <Darkside> it was reallyt flailing around!
[12:40] <WillDuckworth> hey NigeyS, those mini cams don't last too long.... not just battery life, fat32 file size limit's the prob, ~40 mins in 1 go
[12:40] <WillDuckworth> i attached external bat
[12:40] <NigeyS> ahh was going to ask about that
[12:40] <Darkside> also they use MJPEG, right?
[12:41] <WillDuckworth> maybe if you can get the arduino to 'trigger' multiple records, then that would be good
[12:41] <NigeyS> Darkside, yup
[12:42] <NigeyS> WillDuckworth, good thinking, i'll look into it
[12:43] <WillDuckworth> i think you only need to apply a high pin on the power/record switches, tried but didn't get too far
[12:43] <WillDuckworth> but def worth looking into
[12:43] <NigeyS> oh that'd be nice and easy
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[12:47] <x-f> WillDuckworth, my 808-cam records until it's either 2GB file or 30 minutes, then it automatically starts a new file
[12:47] <eroomde> check the gap between recordings
[12:47] <x-f> few seconds
[12:47] <eroomde> you just want to double check it doesn't occur during something you are interested in observing :)
[12:48] <WillDuckworth> cool x-f, do you have a ling?
[12:48] <WillDuckworth> link
[12:48] <Darkside> theres so many different versions of the 808 cams
[12:48] <Darkside> someone made up a big list of them, tabulating all the features of them
[12:48] <Darkside> can't remember where i found the list, but its useful
[12:48] <x-f> WillDuckworth, i bought it on ebay many months ago
[12:49] <WillDuckworth> i'm looking at getting the md91 type - similar to Upu which rolls the files
[12:49] <Darkside> theres something on the order of 20 different versions
[12:49] <x-f> Darkside, http://chucklohr.com/808/
[12:49] <Darkside> thats it
[12:49] <WillDuckworth> thats it
[12:49] <staylo> They're not all MJPEG, the HD ones create H264 MOVs or similar
[12:50] <staylo> Got one but haven't played around with it much
[12:50] <Darkside> ok nn all
[12:51] <staylo> Ah yes, it's #11 on that list
[12:53] <WillDuckworth> are those jelly lenses any good?
[12:54] <costyn> i have a #11
[12:55] <costyn> image is quite ok for such a small device
[12:55] <costyn> you can upgrade the firmware to get rid of the timestamp
[12:55] <costyn> and also to make it support .mov files of 4GB
[12:58] <costyn> and daveake had one in BUZZ too, he rigged it up so he could control it from his Arduino
[12:58] <x-f> WillDuckworth, i have the wide field jelly lense - better is without it, it makes a blurry image everywhere but the very center, adds vignetting and falls off :)
[12:58] <x-f> but it's cheap so might be worth trying it out
[13:01] <costyn> WillDuckworth: the 808 #11 I have now roll over into the next file once it's written 4GB to a SD
[13:01] <WillDuckworth> cool - i'll see what i can find. thanks
[13:09] <hibby> Geezuz, why did I think taking a day off was a good idea.
[13:09] <hibby> oh, yes, because Mrs H said it would be.
[13:11] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6IInoaVcxY&feature=related - what to do if you lose your marbles.
[13:16] <hibby> lol7
[13:19] <Zuph> In case anyone hasn't seen this: STM32 ST-Link drivers for linux. Works with GDB: https://github.com/texane/stlink
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[13:22] <hibby> It's said to be used as ezplot(FUN) in the matlab help file for the ezplot function. That will not make it more enjoyable to use, Matlab.
[13:23] <eroomde> if you want a giggle, try and do a cumulative trapezoid function
[13:23] <Laurenceb> Zuph: does it drive SWD?
[13:23] <hibby> lol
[13:23] Action: Laurenceb hasnt been following developments
[13:23] <Zuph> Laurenceb: From what I can tell, *yes*, but I haven't had a chance to really dig in.
[13:23] <Laurenceb> me neither
[13:24] <Laurenceb> im using serial atm
[13:24] <hibby> lolol
[13:24] <eroomde> tee hee hee
[13:24] <Zuph> I'm compiling now, and will be playing around this evening.
[13:24] <Laurenceb> oh dear
[13:25] <Laurenceb> ah apparently stlink is a usb to SWD bridge
[13:25] <Laurenceb> - the first part of the stm32 discovery board
[13:25] <Laurenceb> pretty cool
[13:25] <Zuph> Laurenceb: Yeah, and this one supports the old discovery and the new stm32f4, IIRC
[13:26] Action: Laurenceb drools
[13:26] <Zuph> STLinkV1 and V2
[13:26] <Laurenceb> stm32f4 is the most epic micro ever
[13:26] <Zuph> Seriously!
[13:26] <Laurenceb> it has fpu and its in lqfp
[13:27] <Laurenceb> what more could you want
[13:27] <eroomde> FPU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[13:27] <eroomde> og my god
[13:27] <eroomde> finally this day has come
[13:27] <Zuph> haha
[13:27] <Laurenceb> heh
[13:27] <eroomde> i've been waiting for micros with FPUs since sort of forever
[13:27] <Zuph> In the US, you can currently get a dev board for the STM32F4 for free. Not sure if they're offering the same deal to europe.
[13:27] <Laurenceb> supported by codesourcery too
[13:28] <Zuph> Farnell UK has the dev board for 10gbp, though.
[13:28] <Laurenceb> nice
[13:28] <eroomde> link me up
[13:28] <eroomde> pin compatible with the f2 series, which is nice
[13:28] <eroomde> and software compatible
[13:28] <Zuph> http://www.st.com/internet/evalboard/product/252419.jsp
[13:28] <eroomde> so you can just drop it in to an existing design and crank up the kalman
[13:28] <Laurenceb> heh
[13:28] <Laurenceb> openpilot 16 state runs at 16KHz
[13:29] <Zuph> http://uk.farnell.com/stmicroelectronics/stm32f4discovery/board-eval-stm32f4-discovery/dp/2009276?Ntt=stm32f4
[13:29] <eroomde> Laurenceb: fine, just go for full machine learning autopilot then :)
[13:29] <Laurenceb> - i havent actually done that yet, just used the benchmarks and scaled with my kalman benchmarks on f1
[13:30] <Zuph> ST is really knocking it out of the park with these Cortex chips.
[13:30] <eroomde> yeah - astounding
[13:31] <Zuph> Although I'd love a Cortex-M0 that's as easy to bodge stuff together with as the AtMegas.
[13:31] <eroomde> i guess it is just the atmega right
[13:31] <Laurenceb> eroomde: at the conference you were saying that uSD can lock up for 200ms
[13:31] <eroomde> always good to have a few arduinos in a bag for combat situations
[13:31] <Laurenceb> is that always an issue
[13:32] <eroomde> Laurenceb: depends on whether or not it's an issue
[13:32] <Laurenceb> or is it a matter of how you use it
[13:32] <eroomde> you can do better yep
[13:32] <Laurenceb> i mean if you write below a minimum rate will it never lock up
[13:32] <eroomde> basically you need to do very large continuous writes
[13:32] <Laurenceb> hmm
[13:32] <eroomde> so pre-allocate a block of memory and then write to it
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[13:32] <eroomde> instead of lots of little writes
[13:33] <Laurenceb> i see
[13:33] <eroomde> we should have had a buffer really
[13:33] <Laurenceb> you were writing < 1 block ?
[13:33] <eroomde> i think the issue for us was that the file allocation table kept being hammered every write
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[13:33] <Laurenceb> hmm
[13:33] <Laurenceb> im using fatfs
[13:33] <eroomde> we used fatfs too
[13:33] <Laurenceb> seems to be it sets up a block using blocking spi writes, then transfers 512 bytes with dma
[13:34] <Laurenceb> thats not good then :S
[13:34] <eroomde> nope!
[13:34] <eroomde> depends on your data ratei guess
[13:34] <Laurenceb> you used 512byte DMA transfers?
[13:34] <eroomde> iirc
[13:34] <eroomde> remember this was 2.5 yrs ago :)
[13:34] <Laurenceb> iirc theres a contrig in the headers
[13:34] <Laurenceb> *config
[13:35] <Laurenceb> so how does it block, i mean the DMA doesnt care what the card is saying
[13:36] <Laurenceb> does the setup code block?
[13:36] Action: Laurenceb takes a look at the source
[13:37] <Laurenceb> https://github.com/Laurenceb/Dactyl/blob/master/Util/Fatfs/sd_spi_stm32.c
[13:37] <Laurenceb> oh shiiiitt line 375
[13:38] <Laurenceb> that is _not_ good
[13:38] <eroomde> there you go
[13:39] <Laurenceb> i guess/hope some cards are much better than that
[13:39] <eroomde> so basically write several blocks at once
[13:39] <Laurenceb> or your phones and stuff would be really annoying
[13:39] <eroomde> well it should come within 500ms
[13:39] <eroomde> if it's more than that you have problems
[13:40] <Laurenceb> so you saw up to 200ms?
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[13:41] <eroomde> Laurenceb: roughly yes
[13:41] <eroomde> it was enough that it could have totally totally missed the deployment
[13:42] <Laurenceb> yeah
[13:42] <eroomde> infact it's what caused the flight computer to crash a few times during early development
[13:43] <Laurenceb> is it caused by changing to a different location in flash, or just each time you need a new block?
[13:44] <eroomde> there's all sorts of witchcraft going on by the wear leveller inside the sd card
[13:44] <eroomde> so i don't know
[13:44] <eroomde> but sometimes it just has to stop and faff around internally
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[13:44] <eroomde> and that's what causes the wait states
[13:45] <Laurenceb> yeah
[13:46] <Laurenceb> well this would kill me mesh network atm
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[13:50] <Laurenceb> looks like its typically <50ms
[13:50] <Laurenceb> but thats still ages
[13:51] <Laurenceb> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=4&sqi=2&ved=0CDIQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cs.ucr.edu%2F~amitra%2Fsdcard%2FProdManualSDCardv1.9.pdf&rct=j&q=SD%20card%20interface%20ready%20period&ei=jYKdTt6_BsO0hAeH1OGgCQ&usg=AFQjCNHO0t_j4VXWgjT60dLYt1MUHr_Eeg&cad=rja
[13:53] <eroomde> Laurenceb: i would honestly consider a buffer
[13:53] <eroomde> putting sd cards in synchronous systems is just a bit flaky
[13:54] <eroomde> well, this is my experience
[13:54] <eroomde> and i don't really want to delve into it too much
[13:54] <eroomde> unless i am trying to mass produce 10,000 things with an sd card in them and wish to save a dollar on a ram chip
[13:54] <Laurenceb> then i need an RTOS and lots of RAM and stuff to control the bus
[13:54] <Laurenceb> massive pita
[13:54] <Laurenceb> maybe i should just go for spi flash
[13:55] <Laurenceb> i could delay the wait time massively
[13:56] <Laurenceb> then what happens...
[13:56] <Laurenceb> im guessing i get an error from higher up
[13:56] <Laurenceb> might just work
[13:58] <Laurenceb> set the wait loop to timeout after 20ms or something, and monitor discio errors on file write attempts
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[14:33] <Laurenceb> eeek this is horrible
[14:33] <NigeyS> ?
[14:33] <Laurenceb> apparently the pro way to do it is cluster pre allocation
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[14:36] <Laurenceb> http://elm-chan.org/fsw/ff/en/lseek.html
[14:36] Action: Laurenceb brain assplode
[14:37] <cuddykid> hi all :)
[14:37] <eroomde> Laurenceb: 13:32 < eroomde> so pre-allocate a block of memory and then write to it
[14:37] <cuddykid> very happy I won an ntx2 :)
[14:39] <SamSilver> cuddykid: what happened with the eazy radio saga?
[14:40] <cuddykid> SamSilver: hoping to fly them on the next flight :) all finally configured now - though I don't think I'm going to get much range out of them
[14:41] <SamSilver> would a preamp help with the Rx?
[14:41] <SamSilver> they came in sets?
[14:42] <cuddykid> I don't think it would help much
[14:42] <cuddykid> yeah
[14:42] <SamSilver> a Tx and a Rx
[14:42] <SamSilver> but the price was right
[14:42] <SamSilver> free?
[14:43] <cuddykid> yeah, they sponsored me :)
[14:43] <cuddykid> lprs
[14:45] <cuddykid> going to try an uplink using easy radios and then using the ntx2 to beam down strings received
[14:46] <SamSilver> will you bee mobile with the uplink - below(ish) following? or will it be more like a range test?
[14:47] <SamSilver> be
[14:52] <Laurenceb> eroomde: ok i think i understand those examples
[14:52] <Laurenceb> so did you use that technique?
[14:53] <eroomde> i'm not sure which link you mean explicitly
[14:53] <eroomde> but yes, pre-allocation
[14:56] <Laurenceb> so it works be identifying where the segmentation is inside the file before hand?
[14:57] <eroomde> i don't understand the q
[14:57] <eroomde> but also am only half keeping on eye on this as i'm working
[14:57] <eroomde> might get better results by taking my input out of the loop
[14:57] <Laurenceb> pre-allocation identifys where the segmentation is inside the file
[14:57] <Laurenceb> heh
[14:58] <Zuph> Can anyone comment on the complexity/difficulty of using the STM32's ethernet interface?
[14:58] <Laurenceb> so that you only have a risk of 200ms wait states at the segmentation points/boundaries
[14:58] <Laurenceb> whatever you call them
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[15:02] <Laurenceb> ok.. so this means you should defrag SD cards ?!
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[15:02] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: You can never tell when a delay will occur with a SD card.
[15:02] <eroomde> indeed
[15:02] <SpeedEvil> It internally remaps the flash blocks inside it to a linear block array, in a nontransparent manner that differs with every card.
[15:03] <eroomde> as i was saying, there's all sortf of wear levelling going on inside
[15:03] <eroomde> so you'll get nowhere if you try and shoehorn a simple model of a linear array of bytes of memory
[15:03] <SpeedEvil> Essentially about all you can guarantee (sometimes) is that you can average the speed on the sticker, over about a second, in large contiguous writes to the block array.
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[15:04] <cuddykid> SamSilver: just going to see how much range I can get out initially - I reckon it's going to be a few miles max
[15:04] <SpeedEvil> If nothing goes wrong.
[15:09] <SamSilver> SpeedEvil: you up for doing some calculations? I am not making much headway!
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[15:10] <SamSilver> I want to caculate how much lift i could get from a 3000g latex if it were inflated like a zp
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[15:11] <Laurenceb> doesnt defragging the card mean you are less likely to get segmentation
[15:11] <SamSilver> I cant find a volume for a 3000g latex uninflated
[15:11] <Laurenceb> and thus can use longer sequential writes?
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[15:14] <Laurenceb> lol -> http://www.avrfreaks.net/modules/PNphpBB2/images/avatars/upload/7289833504cc54437b0919.gif
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[15:24] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: you can't defrag the card properly, as you have no access to the underlying blocks.
[15:24] <programax> Hi guys. I think I'm misunderstanding...this sensor says it goes down to detecting 300 hPa
[15:24] <SpeedEvil> SamSilver: Sorry - no.
[15:24] <programax> I feel like that isn't a very low pressure. I hope I'm just misconverting
[15:24] <Laurenceb> yeah but sequential writes are faster
[15:24] <SpeedEvil> I've just been strimming, and am exhausted.
[15:24] <programax> isn't that like 0.3 of sealevel pressure?
[15:24] <Zuph> programax: BMP085?
[15:24] <SpeedEvil> programax: yes
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[15:24] <Laurenceb> so if you can make longer sequential writes
[15:25] <SpeedEvil> programax: about 10km or so
[15:25] <programax> so it would be like 30% of sealevel pressure. But I plan to go much lower than that
[15:25] <SpeedEvil> you need a different sensor.
[15:25] <programax> I see graphs where people measured pressure down to something tiny
[15:25] <programax> hrmm k :D
[15:25] <programax> you guys know of any good ones?
[15:26] <Laurenceb> bmp085 has worked up to ~37Km
[15:27] <GW8RAK> Quick question - what's the temperature rating for Li-Ion cells?
[15:28] <Zuph> GW8RAK: Depends on the cell, typically not below 0C (iirc)
[15:28] <programax> it's not rated for that. So maybe beyond those ratings it gets too noisy of a response or is inaccurate?
[15:29] <GW8RAK> Thanks, just on phone and the question came up
[15:30] <programax> GW I don't know but I believe they can't handle the cold as well
[15:30] <GW8RAK> Batteries for antarctica
[15:30] <programax> I was recommended to use lithium batteries (specifically not lithium-ion)
[15:35] <NigeyS> GW8RAK, they definately dont work at -16 lol ;)
[15:38] <GW8RAK> Thanks all, someone asking about power supplies in Antarctica
[15:38] <programax> right
[15:39] <programax> Yeah, normal batteries rely on a chemical reaction that slows way down when cold
[15:39] <programax> so if you're talking about Antarctica then I think lithium (not li-ion) is your only optino
[15:39] <programax> but I'm not sure of that. Maybe there is another
[15:40] <GW8RAK> Ski Goggles with built in GPS and heads up display. Seriously sexy
[15:40] <GW8RAK> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY6R1SpGj9M
[15:40] <programax> aww wish I could see that link at work here :D
[15:41] <SamSilver> SpeedEvil: np
[15:42] <GW8RAK> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY6R1SpGj9M Wow!
[15:46] <GW8RAK> Just can't find a price though
[15:47] <GW8RAK> $400 or thereabouts.
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[16:34] <jcoxon> evening all
[16:34] <NigeyS> evening James
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[16:57] <stilldavid> what's the link for the payload json generator one more time?
[16:57] <stilldavid> DanielRichman: you know perchance?
[16:58] <DanielRichman> http://habhub.org/genpayload
[16:58] <stilldavid> thanks
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[17:00] <stilldavid> DanielRichman: https://gist.github.com/1295947
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[17:01] <stilldavid> where do I redeem my 10 points?
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[17:19] <DanielRichman> stilldavid: will upload it asap; just sorting something out
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[17:19] <stilldavid> no rush, and thanks a million
[17:19] <jcoxon> stilldavid, when you launching?
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[17:19] <stilldavid> 15:00 UTC tomorrow, looks like
[17:20] <stilldavid> from the backup location; don't want to go into class B airspace above the largest airport in the US :)
[17:20] <jcoxon> hooray - a launch
[17:21] <DanielRichman> stilldavid: you appear to have set start and end dates to the same value
[17:21] <stilldavid> ah, wasn't sure what to put for the window...
[17:21] <DanielRichman> this means that the flight doc will be valid for 0 seconds
[17:21] <stilldavid> could be today and the day after tomorrow then?
[17:21] <DanielRichman> so if you're lucky enough to squeeze one sentence exactly into that second
[17:22] <DanielRichman> yeah sure that'd be best
[17:22] <DanielRichman> if you have the possibility of launching later in the week if something goes bad then you may like to give yourself roughly a week's launch window
[17:22] <DanielRichman> but 2 days is great
[17:22] <stilldavid> extend it until friday then, just in case
[17:22] <stilldavid> the 21, I guess
[17:22] <stilldavid> you never know.
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[17:29] <DanielRichman> stilldavid: is "temperature" internal or external?
[17:30] <stilldavid> external
[17:30] <stilldavid> °C
[17:30] <stilldavid> int
[17:30] <DanielRichman> added as d18e33e71999fbf6ff42b1f1bb08f811
[17:30] <stilldavid> awesome.
[17:30] <DanielRichman> give me a shout if it doesn't work
[17:30] <stilldavid> will try a test upload here in a few
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[17:30] <Zuph> stilldavid: whatcha launchin?
[17:31] <stilldavid> just a payload to get some video
[17:31] <stilldavid> not tryin' to break any records or anything
[17:31] <stilldavid> what's the Server for dl-fldigi?
[17:31] <Zuph> heh
[17:32] <fsphil> stilldavid, http://robertharrison.org/listen/
[17:32] <stilldavid> okay, cool.
[17:33] <fsphil> that will be changing in the next version with the new couchdb stuffs
[17:35] <stilldavid> my autoconfig doesn't appear to be working; will have to debug in a few here
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[17:37] <stilldavid> dl_fldigi: sentence uploaded!
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[17:42] <fsphil> hmm it's not on the map
[17:42] <stilldavid> yeah, trying to figure out why
[17:45] <stilldavid> not seeing it here: http://robertharrison.org/listen/view.php
[17:45] <stilldavid> either
[17:46] <DanielRichman> server url should have listen.php on the end
[17:46] <fsphil> that takes ages to load
[17:46] <fsphil> KI6YMZ : KI6YMZ,27,17:40:33,40.0650,-105.2099,10000000,1.8890,0.0000,22*7775
[17:46] <stilldavid> oh, you're seeing it?
[17:47] <fsphil> yea it's right at the end of view.php
[17:47] <fsphil> took about 4 minutes to load
[17:47] <stilldavid> ah, it's at the end :)
[17:47] <stilldavid> my web browser officially hates me now..
[17:47] <jonsowman> oh god
[17:47] <jonsowman> view.php
[17:48] <fsphil> yea, remember that ? :)
[17:48] <fsphil> it's got big
[17:48] Action: jonsowman goes pruning
[17:48] Action: stilldavid tries tail -n 100 -f to no avail
[17:49] <stilldavid> so if it's on view.php but not on the tracking page& what am I doing wrong?
[17:49] <jonsowman> there we go
[17:49] <jonsowman> emptied it
[17:50] <stilldavid> phew
[17:52] <stilldavid> isn't there a way to tie a spot into the tracker as well?
[17:52] <jonsowman> jcoxon did that
[17:53] <stilldavid> not totally necessary, but it'll be there
[17:53] <jcoxon> oh goodness
[17:53] <jcoxon> no idea where that script is
[17:53] <jonsowman> hah
[17:53] <jcoxon> let me have a look
[17:53] <stilldavid> heh, not a big deal
[17:53] <stilldavid> I gotta run to a meeting here, but will be back in an hour or so
[17:54] <jcoxon> hmmm i think it was on nessie
[17:55] <DanielRichman> stilldavid: this is the error from the parser: invalid literal for int() with base 10: '1.4260'
[17:56] <DanielRichman> I will change it to float.
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[18:00] <eroomde> jcoxon: evening
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[18:06] <cuddykid> evening all
[18:07] <NigeyS> hey cuddykid
[18:07] <cuddykid> Hi NigeyS :)
[18:08] <cuddykid> really wish if I had my HAB stuff here at Uni :(
[18:11] <jcoxon> hey eroomde
[18:11] <eroomde> cuddykid: bring it
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[18:11] <eroomde> start xUSF
[18:11] <eroomde> where x = uni_name[0]
[18:12] <cuddykid> eroomde: I'm planning to in the near future :)
[18:12] <jcoxon> right - i'm off back in a week and a half
[18:12] <jcoxon> cya
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[18:12] <cuddykid> though atm, there's no room :(
[18:13] <eroomde> yeah finding room is tough
[18:13] <eroomde> you need to fight like a mad person
[18:13] <eroomde> find 2 or three people, do a launch
[18:13] <eroomde> get some hardware
[18:13] <eroomde> then go to the powers that be and make a case for space
[18:14] <cuddykid> need 20 people here to start a society! :S
[18:14] <cuddykid> unless I did it unofficially
[18:14] <cuddykid> but then we wouldn't get support financially
[18:14] <eroomde> 20!?
[18:14] <eroomde> well, sod rules
[18:14] <eroomde> they have no inherent epistemic security
[18:14] <eroomde> just something arbitrary from someone's arse
[18:15] <eroomde> so, start one anyway
[18:15] <cuddykid> yeah 20! lol
[18:15] <cuddykid> yeah, I should :)
[18:15] <jonsowman> fsphil: is habhound in a packaged/useful form?
[18:17] <Zuph> eroomde: "epistemic"? Careful there, people might start mistaking you for a "Liberal Arts" grad.
[18:17] <fsphil> jonsowman, not yet. I've got it reading habitat at the moment but there's some map bugs. hoping to have it done for the weekend
[18:17] <jonsowman> okay cool
[18:17] <jonsowman> so there's an apex launch on saturday
[18:18] <jonsowman> wondering if it'd be useable for it?
[18:18] <cuddykid> I'm not sure how well a group of 20 doing HAB would work too& personally, I think it's more suited to 10 (max) or less, larger than that it requires significant organisation (if working on same project)
[18:18] <fsphil> I'll certainly push for that
[18:18] <Zuph> cuddykid: Seriously. Take white star, for example :-p
[18:18] <jonsowman> thanks fsphil, no huge rush
[18:18] <jonsowman> but if it's done, we'd love to use it
[18:18] <jonsowman> :)
[18:18] <cuddykid> Zuph: I suppose! :P
[18:20] <cuddykid> how many members does CUSF have?
[18:21] <jonsowman> i guess about 10-15 regular members
[18:21] <jonsowman> more like 10 at the moment, until some of new intake this year get more involved
[18:22] <cuddykid> cool :)
[18:23] <cuddykid> need to rope in some electronic, mechanical engineers and comp sci people I think
[18:23] <jonsowman> which uni are you at cuddykid?
[18:23] <cuddykid> nottingham
[18:23] <jonsowman> cool :)
[18:24] <cuddykid> probably works quite well.. there are a lot of engineers in my block and I'm doing some modules in comp sci! Now just got to find the right people
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[18:27] <fsphil> nusf -- sounds good :)
[18:28] <cuddykid> :D
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[18:32] <NigeyS> hi Dan-K2VOL , laurenceb
[18:34] <eroomde> Zuph: fewer insults please
[18:34] <eroomde> and can you mod my comments on your website please
[18:35] <Laurenceb_> sup
[18:35] <Zuph> eroomde: I was being facetious, didn't mean to be insulting. My apologies.
[18:35] <Laurenceb_> ok so ill try and explain why i said that defragging a SD card might help earlier
[18:36] <Laurenceb_> if you defrag then theres going to be less fragmentation of files
[18:37] <eroomde> Zuph: me too :p
[18:37] <Laurenceb_> so the card will be able to take longer continuous writes
[18:37] <Laurenceb_> as the blocks will be one after the other
[18:38] <Laurenceb_> making it faster?
[18:38] <Zuph> eroomde: Bah! Your comments have been moderated.
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[18:40] <SpeedEvil> If you delete all the files, it's defragged by default.
[18:40] <Laurenceb_> i see
[18:40] <programax> mmm I'm having the hardest time finding a chip/etc to measure pressure less than 300 hPa
[18:41] <Laurenceb_> so starting from a blank card should be fast
[18:41] <Laurenceb_> prgramax: measurement specialities
[18:41] <Laurenceb_> *faster
[18:41] <programax> pardon?
[18:41] <eroomde> i seem to be eligible for a free iphone 4s upgrade
[18:41] <eroomde> yes please!
[18:42] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: generally.
[18:42] <eroomde> Zuph: cheers
[18:42] <Laurenceb_> eroomde: you have a free iphone 4s
[18:43] <Laurenceb_> just email me your bank details for a small arrangement fee
[18:44] <Laurenceb_> so anyway, why are large writes faster? because the wear leveller knows what to expect?
[18:44] <Laurenceb_> so it can be running whilst the data is arriving/running a different algorithm for multiple blocks
[18:49] <Laurenceb_> ok i think that makes sense
[18:49] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: i think so yes
[18:49] <eroomde> it can pre-allocate bits of memory
[18:49] <eroomde> it knows where everything is to go
[18:49] <eroomde> it doesn't have to panic as each new sector comes in unannounced
[18:50] <Laurenceb_> hmm this explains why the Xscale based datalogger ive been using is so buggy
[18:51] <Laurenceb_> anyone seen Zebra imaging?
[18:52] <Laurenceb_> http://www.zebraimaging.com/products/motion-displays
[18:52] <Laurenceb_> wonder how that works
[18:54] <NigeyS> does anyone need anything from rapidlonline? i dont want to finalise a £3 order and pay £5.95 delivery.
[18:55] <stilldavid> DanielRichman: thanks! Looks like it works a treat now; feel free to rm the bunk data I just uploaded
[18:56] <SpeedEvil> Nothing I can justify. :)
[18:57] <DanielRichman> stilldavid: meh I'll leave it and it will be cleaned up when we tidy up the flight docs "later"
[18:57] <DanielRichman> there is no useful tool to do it right now
[18:58] <stilldavid> okay, cool. I'll hopefully be uploading real flight data here in about 20 hours or so
[18:59] <fsphil-laptop> ah, fresh meat.. er.. test data
[19:00] <Laurenceb_> id hit it
[19:00] <Laurenceb_> with a kalman filter
[19:01] <Laurenceb_> _and_ an fft for later
[19:02] <number10> NigeyS: I think gw8rak was looking to buy something
[19:02] <NigeyS> ahh oki ill wait till he gets back
[19:02] <NigeyS> lol phil
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[19:23] <Upu> Eagle question (don't everyone hide)
[19:24] <Upu> I've made a libary for uBlox 6 and Sarantel Antenna
[19:24] <Upu> which seem to be ok
[19:24] <Upu> I've connected all the pins etc
[19:24] <Upu> when I use the symbol in my schematic, draw lines to the pins, then switch to board
[19:24] <Upu> the pins don't connect
[19:24] <Upu> no lines to them
[19:24] <Upu> even though they are there on the schematic
[19:25] <Upu> make any sense ?
[19:25] <Upu> https://github.com/Upuaut/Eagle-Libraries
[19:25] <Dan-K2VOL> make sure in your package editor that you've assigned the pins to pads
[19:26] <Upu> I think I have..
[19:26] <Dan-K2VOL> can't check atm here for you, at work
[19:26] <Upu> thats the connect but
[19:26] <Upu> bit
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[19:26] <jonsowman> Upu: run the ERC checker in sch editor
[19:26] <jonsowman> it should warn about pins not being connected
[19:26] <Upu> ok 1 se
[19:26] <Upu> c
[19:27] <Dan-K2VOL> and move your part, to see if ti drags the nets along
[19:27] <Dan-K2VOL> if not, your schematic pins are probably 180° backwards
[19:27] <jonsowman> yeah i made that mistake a few times
[19:27] <Dan-K2VOL> drag the nets to the inside end of them or flip them in the library editor
[19:27] <Upu> ah ha
[19:27] <jonsowman> the circle on the end of the pin is the thing you connect to
[19:27] <Upu> ah ha
[19:28] <Upu> brb
[19:28] <Dan-K2VOL> :-)
[19:28] <jonsowman> hehe
[19:28] <jonsowman> oh eagle.
[19:28] <Upu> chortle
[19:29] Action: Zuph is enjoying KiCad, more or less, as he goes on with it.
[19:29] <Upu> I was doing well with Eagle last night
[19:29] <jonsowman> Zuph: it has its good bits
[19:29] <Upu> my Sarantel Antenna is a work of art
[19:29] <Upu> only took 2 hours for about 12 lines
[19:29] <jonsowman> haha
[19:30] <Dan-K2VOL> lol upu
[19:31] <Zuph> jonsowman: Agreed.
[19:31] <Zuph> Just wish I could fix this damn problem with graphical glitches in eeschema. Only appeared after I upgraded my OS.
[19:31] <jonsowman> its redrawing is a bit wtf
[19:31] <Upu> works much better when you turn your pins the right way round
[19:32] <Upu> thanks guys
[19:32] <jonsowman> hehe no prob
[19:32] <Dan-K2VOL> yw upu
[19:32] <jonsowman> great presentation at the conf by the way Dan-K2VOL
[19:32] <Dan-K2VOL> team electronics debugging is best
[19:32] <jonsowman> enjoyed it
[19:32] <Dan-K2VOL> thank you jonsowman!
[19:33] <Dan-K2VOL> Unfortunately I missed yours, I had to go aaround when Bill brown was on his 2nd hour
[19:33] <Dan-K2VOL> :-P
[19:33] <jonsowman> hehe, it's on youtube if you wanted to see it
[19:33] <Dan-K2VOL> but I'm going to catch up on them this weekend
[19:33] <Dan-K2VOL> definitely
[19:33] <jonsowman> we were pretty rushed by that point unfortunately, but we made most of the important points
[19:34] <Dan-K2VOL> I worked pretty hard to keep mine in the time limit, and it was pretty close to 30 minutes I think with the Q&A
[19:34] <jonsowman> yep it was perfectly timed
[19:34] <jonsowman> a couple of others ran over, but i still think we did pretty well overall
[19:35] <Dan-K2VOL> definitely, it was very pleasant. It was a little tough to be up at 6am but a few of us were at the hackerspace curled up on the couches watching!
[19:35] <jonsowman> hehe
[19:35] <Dan-K2VOL> good to see you guys
[19:36] <jonsowman> you too!
[19:36] <jonsowman> nice to put faces to names
[19:36] <Dan-K2VOL> well timed lunch too, I got breakfast :-)
[19:37] <jonsowman> :D
[19:37] <nosebleedKT> Hi all
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[19:39] <stilldavid> grrr, the altitude on my gps receiver isn't updating. still reads ten million meters.
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[19:42] <fsphil-laptop> that happened another flight recently
[19:42] <Laurenceb_> lol
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[19:45] <Upu> remind me how do I get a ground "fill in" on the top / bottom layer, its something to do with vias but I can't recall it
[19:45] <stilldavid> BAM altitude record
[19:46] <Upu> I call cheat
[19:46] <DanielRichman> Upu: make a region out of a polygon (not a rectangle), edit its (name?) I think and set it to be GND
[19:46] <DanielRichman> then run drc and it should fill it in
[19:46] <Upu> thats it thx
[19:46] <DanielRichman> disclaimer: have not used eagle for a few months
[19:47] <DanielRichman> tweak settings to get desired separation etc
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[19:47] <Upu> yeah thats it
[19:47] <Upu> thanks
[19:48] Nick change: g7waw -> David_g7waw
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[19:52] <daveake> I guess the 40km spacenear limit got increased :p
[19:52] <NigeyS> dave!!
[19:56] <fsphil-laptop> stilldavid is up to no good again
[19:56] Action: stilldavid hides
[19:56] <stilldavid> my gps is still readily reading ten million meters
[19:57] <stilldavid> which& given that it's sitting on the ground outside right now...
[19:58] <fsphil-laptop> 10000km is pretty good
[19:58] <fsphil-laptop> what module?
[19:58] <daveake> Mrs Dave now has a Samsung Tab as a pressie ....
[19:59] <daveake> .... which of course has nothing whatsoever with me wanting to borrow it to show the map in the chasse car .... :p
[19:59] <stilldavid> is a GS407 based on a ublox 5
[20:00] <number10> naughty, I will tell her daveake
[20:00] <stilldavid> I'm using james' code to set it to airborne mode
[20:00] <stilldavid> actually, lemme run and grab it from outside
[20:00] <fsphil-laptop> very odd. I'm trying to remember who's payload did 10000km
[20:01] <Upu> is there anyway to remove all the autorouting you've just done in Eagle and leave everything else as it is ?
[20:02] <Zuph> Upu: Nope!
[20:02] <Zuph> Joy of the autorouter!
[20:02] <Zuph> Coming in version 6 :)
[20:02] Action: Upu stabs Eagle with the last 30 mins of my life
[20:06] <jonsowman> Upu: yeah it's stupid
[20:06] <jonsowman> i know it's no help right now, but always save & commit to version control before you autoroute
[20:06] <jonsowman> if you haven't saved, then just quit without saving
[20:07] <jonsowman> if you have... well, have fun with the ripup tool
[20:07] <jonsowman> :\
[20:10] <NigeyS> lol upu you having fun over there ?
[20:10] Action: Upu stabs NigeyS
[20:10] <NigeyS> thats a definate no :p tnx dude
[20:10] <jonsowman> haha
[20:10] <Upu> I guess I can't complain its free :)
[20:11] <Upu> Eagle CAD where undo is someone elses problem and cut and paste isn't
[20:11] <NigeyS> lol yeah, suck it up, stop whining...lol *runs*
[20:15] <Dan-K2VOL> hehe
[20:17] <daveake> stilldavid: Yes, GS407 is ublox5
[20:17] <stilldavid> daveake: so why's it not getting altitude?
[20:17] <daveake> cloud2 used one
[20:17] <daveake> What, no altitude at all, at ground level?
[20:18] <daveake> How many sats?
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[20:18] <stilldavid> I'm not using the modified tinygps, so no idea
[20:18] <daveake> Ah ..... I can guess then :D
[20:18] <daveake> You need to enable the right NMEA strings
[20:19] <daveake> See jcoxon's guide
[20:19] <daveake> Or I can give you some code
[20:19] <daveake> I don't ue tinygps though
[20:19] <daveake> use
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[20:21] <fsphil-laptop> didn't your payload report 10000000m too daveake?
[20:21] <fsphil-laptop> yikes, lights are flickering
[20:22] <daveake> Actually, my recollection is that it does send GPGGA (which includes altitude) but not GPRMC (which includes speed). So maybe I'm wrong. But it's definitely worth ending the commands to switch on the NMEA strings you want and turn off anything else
[20:22] <stilldavid> yeah, share the love?
[20:22] <stilldavid> I used jcoxon's code from & atlas maybe?
[20:22] <daveake> fsphil-laptop - I think cloud1 may have
[20:22] <stilldavid> https://github.com/stilldavid/high-altitude/blob/master/balloon_minimal/balloon_minimal.pde
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[20:23] <fsphil-laptop> wasn't even my fault like
[20:24] <daveake> they all say that
[20:24] <fsphil-laptop> I've a very minimal gps decoder I use with the fsa03, ublox5 based. its up on github
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[20:26] <daveake> I tested spacenear.us on the Galaxy Tab before I bought it :D
[20:26] <daveake> I left Buzz on the screen when I left ....
[20:27] <fsphil-laptop> I used to leave messages on computers in pc world all the time :)
[20:27] <fsphil-laptop> "It's cheaper next door"
[20:27] <daveake> Mine should have been "No I f**king don't want your stupid extra warranty" :D
[20:28] <Laurenceb_> lol
[20:28] <fsphil-laptop> my wildfire doesn't like spacenear.us
[20:28] <daveake> I had to tell him "If you ask me one more time I'm walking out that door"
[20:29] <daveake> So if any of you go in PCWeld Oxford, and you see someone called "Alex" who looks like "Comic Shop Guy", give him a wide berth (he needs one)
[20:29] <Laurenceb_> "excuse me sir, may i test this pc as a playback device for my porn collection"
[20:29] <daveake> lol
[20:29] <fsphil-laptop> haha
[20:29] <daveake> "How easy is it to use single-handed?"
[20:30] <daveake> (think about it ...)
[20:31] <Laurenceb_> "so how well does the android browser work with /b/"
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[20:40] <NigeyS> lmao
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[20:59] <stilldavid> daveake: do you have the code to disable all but gpgga sentences on ublox5?
[20:59] <stilldavid> that's the issue, I think. I'm just getting a lot of GPRMC
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[21:07] <stilldavid> right on, the code here worked: http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:falcom_fsa03
[21:13] Action: Laurenceb_ wonders if someone will make an stm32f4 duino
[21:13] <fsphil-laptop> back down to earth?
[21:14] <stilldavid> fsphil-laptop: yeah, but lost my bearing and speed. I'm porting my code to use the modified version of tinygps now, though
[21:17] <NigeyS> better than losing ure marbles stilldavid :p
[21:17] <stilldavid> definitely. I've had flights not update altitude, and it sucks. a lot.
[21:18] <NigeyS> hehe i had a lipo freeze on my pico flight friday night, no fun :/
[21:18] <daveake> Buzz's altitude got stuck at just over 14km for a while. Worked again after a while.
[21:19] <NigeyS> he stopped to admire the view :D
[21:19] <daveake> lol
[21:20] <daveake> I updated the altitude list on ukhas. He got #13, one ahead of "Infinity" now at #14
[21:20] <daveake> So........................ Buzz went "To Infinity and Beyond" LOL
[21:20] <fsphil-laptop> had a great view on the flight home. was able to identify things from looking at my hab images :)
[21:21] <daveake> :D
[21:21] <fsphil-laptop> quite neat seeing that kind of view for yourself
[21:21] <daveake> Now when I fly I look out and think "35,000 feet ... is that all?"
[21:21] <stilldavid> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:falcom_fsa03?s[]=ublox#modified_tinygps
[21:22] <stilldavid> anyone have a code sample for that handy?
[21:22] Action: stilldavid <-- not much of a coder and & well, flight's tomorrow :)
[21:24] <NigeyS> http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:picoatlas:picoatlasi#code
[21:24] <NigeyS> think its used in there
[21:24] <stilldavid> yeah, just found it
[21:24] <stilldavid> looks good
[21:25] <fsphil-laptop> there's an example in the zip
[21:25] <stilldavid> derp, stupid me.
[21:25] <stilldavid> I'm just stressin'
[21:25] <fsphil-laptop> know the feeling
[21:25] <fsphil-laptop> I've had to make a rule, finish it two days before
[21:25] <NigeyS> meditate!
[21:25] <stilldavid> I did!
[21:25] <fsphil-laptop> ah
[21:25] <stilldavid> I sure did! But then I found all the bugs :)
[21:25] <NigeyS> u never stick to that rule though phil :p
[21:26] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[21:26] <fsphil-laptop> nah
[21:26] <fsphil-laptop> despite my next launch being three months late, I'll still be stressing the night before
[21:26] <NigeyS> lol
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[21:27] <fsphil-laptop> woo, I broke cloudflare
[21:28] <fsphil-laptop> well not break, just found a fault. and only with ipv6
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[21:32] <stilldavid> grrrr, I wish I knew everything about gps
[21:33] <stilldavid> okay
[21:33] <stilldavid> so using the modified tinygps library works
[21:33] <stilldavid> but
[21:33] <stilldavid> it only updates when it feels like it, is this expected behavior?
[21:34] <NigeyS> not normally :|
[21:34] <stilldavid> sometimes it polls immediately, sometimes it takes up to 20 or 30s to return a valid string
[21:35] <fsphil-laptop> that's not right
[21:35] <stilldavid> plus side is that every value is fresh :) lat/lon/alt/speed/course
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[21:36] <fsphil-laptop> so the old version give you results at a higher frequency?
[21:37] <stilldavid> yes, but it was parsing the GGA sentences only, so no speed/course info
[21:37] <stilldavid> https://gist.github.com/1296794
[21:37] <stilldavid> that's correct, yeah?
[21:38] <stilldavid> print the "request" string then immediately wait for a response?
[21:39] <NigeyS> looks ok, but im a retard when it comes to code...
[21:39] <fsphil-laptop> ah, possibly it's waiting on all data before it returns a result
[21:39] <stilldavid> yeah, I wonder if that's just it.
[21:39] <stilldavid> I bet it is.
[21:39] <fsphil-laptop> likely
[21:39] <stilldavid> it seems to never take longer than 30s or so; it probably waits for sentences of all types to populate all values before returning
[21:39] <fsphil-laptop> can the frequency of the other sentence be increased I wonder
[21:39] <stilldavid> this looks okay
[21:39] <stilldavid> actually& lemme try one thing
[21:41] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "[UKHAS] uBlox 6 Breakout"
[21:41] <stilldavid> I'm dumb.
[21:42] <stilldavid> I had most sentence types disabled; that's why it took so long to populate all the data
[21:42] <stilldavid> whatever, this works a treat.
[21:42] <stilldavid> done and done.
[21:42] <daveake> :D
[21:42] <stilldavid> suppose I should actually work today? :-/
[21:42] <fsphil-laptop> eek
[21:42] <stilldavid> :)
[21:42] <daveake> I don't use TinyGPS, so I just switch off everything except RMC/GGA and decode those directly
[21:43] <fsphil-laptop> what time tomorrow are you launching?
[21:43] <stilldavid> 15:00 UTC or so
[21:43] <daveake> From where?
[21:43] <fsphil-laptop> nice .. I'm at work then but I'll keep an eye out
[21:43] <stilldavid> deer trail, CO if the predictions hold
[21:43] <stilldavid> might have some data on the tracker if there's decent cell coverage
[21:44] <stilldavid> and if I can pick up a few more listeners tonight on the EOSS net
[21:45] <daveake> fsphil-laptop - I've powered up the car PC. No problem yet. I suspect it may be heat related, possibly to do with the fact that I didn't reconnect the case fan ............ :p
[21:45] <daveake> So it probably got a bit warm on Sunday morning
[21:46] <stilldavid> http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[21:46] <stilldavid> that's more like it
[21:46] <daveake> So next time in the car there'll be my Android phone, the car sat nav, the car PC, the Samsung Tab, and my netbook. Might be enough kit ... :)
[21:47] <daveake> Only -61 m/s?
[21:48] <daveake> I think it can't handle the drop :p
[21:48] Action: stilldavid wishes he could purge the old data
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[21:49] <fsphil-laptop> I forget how to
[21:50] <fsphil-laptop> ah, deleted
[21:50] <stilldavid> thanks :)
[21:51] <stilldavid> will hold off on uploading more until tomorrow at the launch site
[21:51] <fsphil-laptop> I can't change the title
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[21:53] <fsphil-laptop> "Some of our forests are not cared for. And one way to revive them is to cut trees down" - ook
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[21:54] <daveake> Especially the ones with HABs at the top
[21:55] Action: fsphil-laptop votes for daveake
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[22:07] <Upu-> http://photosynth.net/edit.aspx?cid=4970652e-0fd2-48db-b906-1402ea2ed96a&wa=wsignin1.0
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[22:14] <stilldavid> well, just let it run for a few minutes
[22:15] <stilldavid> getting 2 or 3 sentences from the radio every minute or so.
[22:16] <stilldavid> brennen, my tracker-helper-guy wrote this up last time around:
[22:16] <stilldavid> http://p1k3.com/2011/4/3
[22:16] <stilldavid> good advice
[22:16] <Paradoxial> stilldavid: I didn't know you hung out here :o
[22:16] <stilldavid> Paradoxial: I didn't know _you_ hung out here
[22:17] <Paradoxial> It's a small world :D
[22:17] <stilldavid> :)
[22:17] <stilldavid> doing a launch tomorrow morning, getting nervous/checklisty
[22:22] <fsphil-laptop> "4. An adult should know how to tie a variety of knots."
[22:22] Action: fsphil-laptop hangs head in shame
[22:22] <daveake> I've invented lots. Can't remember any of them :p
[22:23] <daveake> I just make a mess then tape it up :D
[22:24] <fsphil-laptop> good old duct tape
[22:24] <daveake> indeed
[22:24] <stilldavid> duct tape, zip ties and bungee cords
[22:24] <stilldavid> these are staples of any chase car
[22:25] <daveake> If it's good enough for Apollo 13, it's good enough for me
[22:25] <stilldavid> "we need to fit this & into this & using nothing but that"
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[22:25] <stilldavid> oh shi---
[22:25] <daveake> :D
[22:25] <fsphil-laptop> that pretty much sums up how I build my payload boxes :)
[22:26] <daveake> lol
[22:26] <stilldavid> did you see the things I got for this payload?
[22:26] Action: stilldavid digs up URL
[22:26] <fsphil-laptop> so stilldavid, what was that you where saying about brennen? :)
[22:26] <stilldavid> uh, he's a uh& great guy
[22:26] <brennen> can't be any worse than the stuff he says to my face.
[22:26] <stilldavid> I mean, the man speaks truth
[22:27] <stilldavid> http://i.imgur.com/bkTHu.jpg
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[22:27] <fsphil-laptop> ooh flower pot
[22:27] <stilldavid> yeah, but it's a faucet cover.
[22:27] <stilldavid> apparently that's a thing.
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[22:28] <brennen> a $0.98 thing.
[22:29] <fsphil-laptop> ooooooh, I had to look that up
[22:29] <fsphil-laptop> that's what you call taps
[22:30] <stilldavid> heh
[22:30] <stilldavid> almost shat my trousers when a lorry sped past me
[22:30] <stilldavid> ...
[22:30] <stilldavid> amidoinitrite?
[22:31] <brennen> just don't use pants to refer to your trousers. i think.
[22:31] <LazyLeopard> tv
[22:31] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[22:31] <brennen> i had no idea "faucet" was an americanism.
[22:31] <fsphil-laptop> it's a new one to me too
[22:32] <stilldavid> heh, spigot
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[22:32] <LazyLeopard> A trans-Pondian tap cover... Hmmm... ;)
[22:33] <fsphil-laptop> you squeezing everything into that stilldavid?
[22:33] <stilldavid> "thermostatic mixing valves"
[22:33] <stilldavid> dammit wikipedia
[22:33] <stilldavid> fsphil-laptop: we've got two joined together
[22:34] <stilldavid> it makes for a nice capsule
[22:34] <stilldavid> the two gopros are mounted outside in the airtight housings (with wires protruding, of course)
[22:34] <brennen> has sort of a low-rent 1950s space race vibe to it.
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[22:35] <stilldavid> we're bringing along a videographer, so there will be a nice follow-up if all goes well
[22:36] <brennen> or possibly even if it doesn't.
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[22:39] <stilldavid> if you want a video of us cursing just watch the free day videos, amirite?
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[00:00] --- Wed Oct 19 2011