highaltitude.log.20111005

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[03:26] <fergusnoble> nickolai: I have some code for the lassen IQ
[03:26] <fergusnoble> nickolai: http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/websvn/filedetails.php?repname=CUSF&path=%2Fbadger%2Fbadger1%2Ffirmware%2Ftasks%2FGPS.c
[03:27] <fergusnoble> also I have a schematic if you are wondering about the hardware design
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[04:19] <nickolai> hi fergusnoble
[04:19] <nickolai> i'm ok on code, but it's hardware interface I'm having trouble with
[04:19] <nickolai> i bought the ribbon cable but it seems to be too big to fit on the pins (correct spacing and all, it's just wider than the hole on the lassen)
[04:19] <fergusnoble> ok, there are eagle schematics for that board on the svn
[04:20] <nickolai> i was wondering if anyone else bought the ribbon cable and if they had a similar issue
[04:20] <nickolai> i don't want to make a pcb, i'd prefer to use the ribbon just for simplicity
[04:21] <nickolai> i think i can just chop off the sides and stick it in, but i'd first like to know what others have done
[04:21] <nickolai> i take it you made a pcb?
[04:21] <fergusnoble> oh we made a pcb with the smt connector
[04:21] <fergusnoble> yeah
[04:21] <fergusnoble> the ribbon is from sparkfun?
[04:22] <nickolai> no, it's from a company called avnet
[04:23] <fergusnoble> ok, got a link with a picture of it?
[04:23] <nickolai> lemme see...
[04:24] <nickolai> lassen iq book page 22
[04:24] <nickolai> http://gpsd.berlios.de/vendor-docs/trimble/trimble-lassen-iq.pdf
[04:25] <fergusnoble> ok, I see it
[04:26] <fergusnoble> the black plastic part is too wide to fit thought the hole in the can?
[04:26] <nickolai> yea... tho looking at their picture it's odd that it sticks out a bit
[04:26] <fergusnoble> hmm
[04:27] <fergusnoble> sometimes the top cover of the connector is held on by clips on the side so you would have to be careful not to cut those off
[04:27] <fergusnoble> but it should be ok
[04:27] <nickolai> i got like 4 cable in anticipation something would go wrong so i have some room to experiment :)
[04:28] <nickolai> i would just prefer to keep that experimentation to a minimum, since 4 is a very finite number....
[04:28] <nickolai> and the lead time on the cable is like a week
[04:29] <nickolai> how did you make the pcb, did you order one or use a toner transfer method?
[04:35] <fergusnoble> it was ordered from olimex I believe
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[04:50] <nickolai> i just went and clipped off the edges. it seems to fit but on of the connectors is now partially exposed. It looks like it'll work but I'm dissappointed that i had to do it like that. I was hoping for plug-n-play
[04:51] <nickolai> i haven't found a gps w/o altitude restrictions that i can implement without a pcb. any suggestions? I've tried garmin gps 18x lvc, but that one actually needs an inverter to work so, no cigar...
[04:53] <fergusnoble> hmm& I think any uBlox chipset based module will work
[04:53] <fergusnoble> depends on how much kludging you are willing to accept
[04:56] <nickolai> meh.... not too much...
[04:56] <nickolai> i keep hearing about ublox, i'll have to investigate them
[04:57] <nickolai> i now see on this project they had a similar issue to the one i'm facing - and they decided to bend the board instead of clipping the connector: http://alienproject.wordpress.com/2009/04/15/workshop-15-picture-post/3-gps-processor-bottom/
[04:57] <nickolai> er, bend the can
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[05:00] <fergusnoble> maybe thats neater
[05:00] <fergusnoble> I dont know
[05:00] <fergusnoble> yeah uBlox is a really nice chipset
[05:00] <fergusnoble> worth looking at
[05:00] <fergusnoble> but the lassen always worked great for me for HAB though
[05:05] <nickolai> yea, this is my 3rd gps, after inventek and garmin
[05:05] <nickolai> inventek worked well for a while, but i just made a toner transfer pcb, and it worked poorly
[05:07] <nickolai> anyway, nice chatting with ouy fergusnoble, i'm off to bed - it's past 1am here in indiana :)
[05:08] <nickolai> have a good day/night
[05:09] <fergusnoble> goodnight
[05:09] <fergusnoble> from santa cruz, ca
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[05:51] <natrium42> fergusnoble: you/are in santa cruz???
[05:55] <fergusnoble> yeah I moved here a few weeks ago
[05:56] <fergusnoble> :)
[05:57] <natrium42> omg
[05:58] <natrium42> come to palo alto
[05:58] <natrium42> :D
[05:58] <fergusnoble> are you in palo alto now?
[05:59] <natrium42> yeah
[06:00] <fergusnoble> oh sweet
[06:00] <fergusnoble> yeah I have some friends in palo alto I need to visit so I will definitely be going up that way sometime soon
[06:00] <natrium42> how long are you staying?
[06:01] <fergusnoble> are you working/studying there?
[06:01] <fergusnoble> for at least a year
[06:01] <natrium42> cool, ping me when you do
[06:01] <fergusnoble> hopefully longer
[06:01] <natrium42> starting job with apple
[06:03] <natrium42> bbl gym
[06:07] <costyn> good morning
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[06:32] <jcoxon> morning
[06:34] <Darkside> \o
[06:35] <jcoxon> hey Darkside
[06:35] <jcoxon> realised that my fsa03-lp actually has ublox 6 onboard
[06:36] <Darkside> yeah i heard the -lp has the new ones
[06:36] <jcoxon> though it looks like they've discontinued the product
[06:36] <Darkside> heh
[06:36] <Darkside> so no more fsa03s?
[06:36] <jcoxon> i've got 2
[06:37] <Darkside> i mean aren't they selling them anymore
[06:37] <jcoxon> seems like that
[06:37] <Darkside> damn
[06:39] <fsphil> I need to find my box, see if they're 5 or 6s
[06:39] <jcoxon> i'm glad they are 6 - the powersaving is much better
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[06:48] <UpuWork> Morning
[06:48] <UpuWork> I'm going to order some of those uBlox 6 chips
[06:48] <UpuWork> if anyones interested
[06:49] <gm> what features are better than ublox5?
[06:49] <UpuWork> when are you shipping the break out boards Darkside ?
[06:49] <UpuWork> Err you can get uBlox 6 :)
[06:49] <UpuWork> uBlox 5 is going EoL early next year according to the supplier
[06:49] <jcoxon> gm, well they are about the same for gettign a fix etc
[06:49] <UpuWork> but power consumption I think is lower
[06:49] <jcoxon> but their power saving is much better
[06:50] <jcoxon> they have more options
[06:50] <UpuWork> wanting any jcoxon ?
[06:50] <jcoxon> in theory once its got a lock it can go into a tracking mode with an average current of 10mA
[06:50] <jcoxon> and still give you position updates
[06:50] <jcoxon> UpuWork, how much?
[06:51] <UpuWork> £18.63 each ex VAT
[06:51] <UpuWork> I'll bring them to the conference so no delivery
[06:51] <jcoxon> what model?
[06:51] <UpuWork> NEO-6Q-O
[06:51] <UpuWork> See mail I just sent
[06:52] <jcoxon> 3v?
[06:53] <UpuWork> 2.7 - 3.6
[06:53] <UpuWork> Which means I need to redesign
[06:54] <UpuWork> as I'm on 5v atm
[06:54] <jcoxon> yeah i'll take 3
[06:54] <UpuWork> ok
[06:54] <jcoxon> they'll need a regulator
[06:54] <UpuWork> I'll fire a mail round see if anyone else wants some
[06:56] <costyn> UpuWork: sounds interesting yes
[06:56] <Darkside> hmm
[06:56] <Darkside> UpuWork: hey
[06:56] <Darkside> i'm waiting on the antennas
[06:56] <Darkside> but they should be in soon
[06:56] <jcoxon> UpuWork, make it very clear that they are pure chips
[06:56] <Darkside> oh god
[06:56] <Darkside> are they just teh chips?
[06:56] <Darkside> not the modules?
[06:56] <jcoxon> oh i mean modules
[06:56] <Darkside> no wait
[06:56] <jcoxon> that they will need a breakout
[06:56] <jcoxon> don't want people being disappointed
[06:56] <Darkside> and i've fgot the breakouts
[06:57] <Darkside> :-)
[06:57] <Darkside> hell, i'll just release my design
[06:57] <Darkside> and you'll all just have to get hold of the right antennas
[06:57] <UpuWork> can I put that in the mail ?
[06:57] <UpuWork> yeah was going to ask what is the antenna model number and where did you get them ?
[06:57] <Darkside> SL1202RH from Richardson Electronics
[06:57] <UpuWork> thanks
[06:58] <Darkside> the boards are meant to have a little notch in them, but i didn't trust seeedstudio to do it correctly so i didn't put it on the board
[06:58] <Darkside> the antenna fits onto the 0.8mm FR4 nicelt anyway
[06:58] <jcoxon> Darkside, oh they do the notch
[06:58] <jcoxon> i got it for my fsa03 breakouts
[06:59] <Darkside> ooh
[06:59] <Darkside> ill do that on the next lot i order then
[06:59] <Darkside> do you just put it on the silkscreen overlay?
[06:59] <Darkside> or what layer did you put it on?
[06:59] <jcoxon> Darkside, i don't remember
[06:59] <Darkside> ok
[06:59] <jcoxon> i was using eagle
[06:59] <Darkside> my antennas are in hong kong
[06:59] <Darkside> and i have 20 antennas on the way
[07:00] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "[UKHAS] uBlox NEO-6Q"
[07:00] <UpuWork> where did you get them from ?
[07:00] <UpuWork> you have to release break out design now Darkside as I just put it in a mail :)
[07:00] <Darkside> AUD$Richardson Electronics
[07:00] <Darkside> ack
[07:00] <Darkside> sure, i'll upload the ALTIUM DESIGNER Files now
[07:00] <Darkside> that none of you will be able to read :P
[07:00] <UpuWork> you'll need to do an Eagle version
[07:00] <Darkside> bahahahah
[07:00] <UpuWork> lolol
[07:01] <Darkside> oh god what did you put in this email
[07:01] <Darkside> not the datasheet i hope
[07:01] <number10> UpuWork antennas: http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/products/6974238/?searchTerm=SL1202RH&relevancy-data=636F3D3226696E3D4931384E4B6E6F776E41734D504E266C753D656E266D6D3D6D61746368616C6C7061727469616C26706D3D5E5C772B2426706F3D313326736E3D592673743D4D414E5F504152545F4E554D424552267573743D534C3132303252482677633D424F544826
[07:01] <UpuWork> nah just product overview 752kb
[07:01] <Darkside> ugh
[07:01] <UpuWork> lovely number10
[07:02] <costyn> Darkside: are you going to be doing the other GPS's inlc breakouts that you made the document for?
[07:02] <Darkside> number10: UpuWork cheaper at richardson
[07:02] <Darkside> richardson charge $6.50 per antenna
[07:02] <Darkside> oh wait
[07:02] <Darkside> with 15 it might be comparable
[07:03] <UpuWork> http://www.rell.com/pages/Product-Details.aspx?productId=932896
[07:03] <number10> the richardson site dont show tha case for some reason http://www.rell.com/pages/Product-Details.aspx?productId=922313
[07:03] <Darkside> nope, still cheaper from richardson
[07:03] <Darkside> ack rells site isnt loading for me
[07:03] <UpuWork> £4.47
[07:03] <UpuWork> ex delivery from Richardson
[07:03] <Darkside> stupid australian internet
[07:04] <Darkside> yeah
[07:04] <UpuWork> ok cool
[07:04] <Darkside> they charged me about AUD$35 for fast DHL delivery
[07:04] <UpuWork> I'll take a break out pls DanielRichman :)
[07:04] <UpuWork> err
[07:04] <UpuWork> Darkside
[07:04] <Darkside> fuuuu
[07:04] <Darkside> i have 9 PCBs here
[07:04] <UpuWork> chop chop then I have a payload to build, broke the last one :)
[07:04] <Darkside> why don't i just put the gerbers online and you can order some from seeedstudio :P
[07:04] <Darkside> oh wait
[07:04] <Darkside> you need to put the order number on the PCB somewhere
[07:05] <UpuWork> well yours are prebuilt and tested which is always a bonus
[07:05] <Darkside> uuuuurgh
[07:06] <Darkside> well, when i get these antennas i'll make them up..
[07:06] <Darkside> should be tomorrow or the day after
[07:06] <UpuWork> lovely
[07:06] <UpuWork> cheers for that
[07:06] <UpuWork> now we just need to work out how to get the break out into Eagle
[07:06] <Darkside> haha
[07:06] <Darkside> not happening
[07:06] <UpuWork> and I need to design the Eagle package
[07:06] <Darkside> i don'tknow of a way to import altium sruffs into eagle
[07:06] <Darkside> stuffs*
[07:07] <Darkside> or vice versa
[07:07] <Darkside> just download altium designer :P
[07:07] <Darkside> its not hard to find
[07:07] <UpuWork> will people accept designs done in hooky copies ?
[07:08] <UpuWork> I know Eagle you can't
[07:08] <Darkside> well seeedstudio just wants the gerbers
[07:08] <Darkside> and those are CAD software independent
[07:09] <UpuWork> I'll see how I get on with Eagle
[07:09] <Darkside> also pcbtrain didn't notive that i was sending them altium files made with a bodgy copy of altium :P
[07:09] <UpuWork> lol
[07:09] <Darkside> and this was the TOPCAT PCB mind you
[07:09] <Darkside> >_>
[07:11] <Darkside> ahhhhhh, i put the cutout into the mechanical 1 layer
[07:11] <fsphil> UpuWork, stick me down for 3 too
[07:11] <Darkside> it needs to be in the silkscreen layer for seeedstudio to cut it out
[07:12] <Darkside> y;know, i could do a seeedstudio order and just get it shipped to one of you guys
[07:13] <UpuWork> ok fsphil
[07:13] <jcoxon> as there isn't really a commercial ublox 6 module avaliable this could be a small business oppurtunity
[07:13] <fsphil> I gotta start on this SMD fun sometime :)
[07:15] <UpuWork> well sure its just a small step to link one of our trackers to a GSM/GPRS modem
[07:15] <UpuWork> and you have a vehicle tracker
[07:15] <fsphil> it's nearly cheaper to buy a separate unit. there are no cheap gsm-modules
[07:15] <UpuWork> Anyway mail me your orders, I really need to do some real work today :)
[07:16] <Darkside> oh yeah guys
[07:16] <Darkside> the ublox module is the HARDEST thing onthe micronut board to solder
[07:16] <Darkside> dead serious
[07:16] <Darkside> its a pain in the ass
[07:16] <UpuWork> Darkside make a video :)
[07:16] <Darkside> FUUUUU
[07:16] <Darkside> i guess i could
[07:16] <Darkside> >_>
[07:16] <fsphil> define hard
[07:16] <fsphil> as in, *aaaaah solder you ****'ing thing* hard?
[07:17] <UpuWork> I have a Blackjack solderwerks rework station with a very very small bit, also has a hot air jobbie on it
[07:17] <fsphil> or *ah crap I just broke it* hard?
[07:17] <Darkside> getting the head into the little crooves
[07:17] <Darkside> grooves
[07:17] <Darkside> do not use hot air on the ublox modules
[07:17] <UpuWork> do you glue the comp to the board dirst ?
[07:17] <Darkside> nah
[07:17] <UpuWork> first
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[07:17] <Darkside> i tack down one pad
[07:17] <Darkside> i'll do up a video
[07:17] <UpuWork> please that would really help
[07:17] <fsphil> no hot air?
[07:17] <Darkside> nope
[07:17] <Darkside> again, i'll video
[07:17] <Darkside> ok, i've added the notch to the pcb
[07:18] <Darkside> oh hang on
[07:18] <Darkside> this isnt the latest version
[07:18] <Darkside> fuuuuu
[07:18] <Darkside> i really need to stick all my pcb designs into a version control repository
[07:18] <Darkside> i moved all the holes so that they lined up with 0.1" spacing
[07:19] <Darkside> so you can bolt them down onto a veroboard easily
[07:19] <fsphil> sneaky
[07:20] <jcoxon> this payload is becoming increasingly complicated
[07:20] <jcoxon> hmmm
[07:20] <Darkside> is everyone fine with just a normal pitch header on the PCB?
[07:20] <jcoxon> always sensible
[07:20] <Darkside> i was considering trying to fit one of those SMD connecotrs like on some of the other modules on there too
[07:21] <jcoxon> nah 0.1 is the key
[07:21] <Darkside> ok
[07:21] <jcoxon> breadboard able for testing
[07:21] <Darkside> and i've set it up so you can use either 4 or 6 pins
[07:21] <jcoxon> easy to make connectors
[07:21] <daveake> +1
[07:21] <Darkside> GND, TX, RX, 3V3, VBATT, 1PPS
[07:21] <Darkside> the last 2 pins are optional
[07:21] <Darkside> but if you don't use VBATT, you need to short 2 pads on the pcb
[07:22] <Darkside> as the ublox module doesnt like having the vbatt pin floating
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[07:24] <fsphil> I left the batt pin floating on the fsa03, though it may be doing something else on the board before it gets to the chip
[07:24] <fsphil> can vbatt simply be grounded?
[07:24] <Darkside> yes
[07:24] <Darkside> its what the ublox 6 hardware integration manual says to do
[07:25] <Darkside> i went through that manual extensively to work out what i had to do
[07:31] <fsphil> hah, it's going to cost more to get to london from cardiff than from here
[07:32] <Darkside> haha my blog got 600 visits from hackaday
[07:33] <Darkside> i'm just working on packaging up this ublox breakout project properly
[07:33] <UpuWork> whats hackaday link Darkside ?
[07:33] <Darkside> and making a proper manufacture output
[07:33] <Darkside> UpuWork: ?
[07:33] <UpuWork> you said you'd been on Hackaday ?
[07:33] <Darkside> yes
[07:34] <UpuWork> whats the URL for your article ?
[07:34] <Darkside> duno
[07:34] <Darkside> dunno
[07:35] <Darkside> it was on hackaday on tuesday
[07:36] <costyn> http://hackaday.com/2011/10/03/avr-chiptune-project-turns-this-simple-code-into-music/ ?
[07:37] <fsphil> I accidentally made some neat sounds with a bug in an rtty generator
[07:37] <Darkside> yes
[07:37] <Darkside> thats the one costyn
[07:37] <UpuWork> Natrium42 got his spot hacking on there
[07:38] <Darkside> yeah
[07:41] <fsphil> tim, darkside, natrium.. who's next? :)
[07:41] <jcoxon> i was on there a long time ago
[07:41] <jcoxon> let me see if its in their archive
[07:42] <jcoxon> http://hackaday.com/2005/10/29/high-altitude-linux-take-2/
[07:42] <jcoxon> mwhahahah
[07:42] <fsphil> I don't document my projects well enough to get on had
[07:43] <Darkside> 19.9km?
[07:43] <Darkside> weak
[07:43] <jcoxon> ebay balloons back then
[07:44] <griffonbot> Received email: Mark Jessop "Re: [UKHAS] uBlox NEO-6Q"
[07:44] <Darkside> there we go
[07:44] <Darkside> jeez, the things i do for you guys
[07:44] <fsphil> you only did twice that eh
[07:45] <Darkside> now i'll see if i can make an awesome video of me soldering stuff
[07:46] <fsphil> 2005 yikes, you've been doing this a while jcoxon
[07:46] <fsphil> was there any others launching back then?
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[07:48] <jcoxon> not in the UK
[07:48] <jcoxon> fsphil, http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/projects:launch_list
[07:49] <fsphil> ah ha
[07:49] <jcoxon> been doing it for a while
[07:49] <jcoxon> i was inspired by Dan-K2VOL's first flight
[07:49] <UpuWork> *cough*
[07:49] <UpuWork> You don't have permission to access /data/uBloxBreakout/uBlox_NEO6Q_Breakout_Images.PDF on this server.
[07:49] <Darkside> oh fuck
[07:50] <UpuWork> but thx Darkside
[07:50] <Darkside> try now
[07:50] <fsphil> jcoxon, the spirit one?
[07:50] <UpuWork> yep thx
[07:51] <jcoxon> fsphil, before that
[07:51] <jcoxon> http://sunsite.utk.edu/~mcoffey/ux-1/
[07:52] <jcoxon> a few months before my launch
[07:52] <jcoxon> hooray - my payload has finally powered up from dead
[07:52] <costyn> what/where is EARS?
[07:52] <jcoxon> costyn, cambridgeshire, uk
[07:53] <costyn> is it like a special location that I see it come by often?
[07:53] <costyn> (and what is it an abbreviation for?)
[07:53] <jcoxon> its a field where there are regular rocket launches
[07:53] <UpuWork> EARS = East Anglia Rocket Society but Steve wants to call it Elsworth now
[07:53] <costyn> aaah ok
[07:53] <jcoxon> UpuWork, fair point really
[07:53] <UpuWork> its a location near Cambridge with a permanent NOTAM for launches
[07:53] <costyn> aah makes sense :)
[07:54] <jcoxon> UpuWork, you need to add your launch to the list
[07:54] <UpuWork> which list ?
[07:54] <UpuWork> Wiki ?
[07:54] <costyn> and I'm missing NL and BE in the list of countries too :)
[07:55] <jcoxon> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/projects:launch_list
[07:55] <UpuWork> k will fix
[07:56] <daveake> Quite a few "Dumped in North Sea" there ...
[07:56] <daveake> ... guess I should add mine
[07:56] <jcoxon> yes please
[07:56] <costyn> daveake: noticed that too. :)
[07:57] <jcoxon> best keep track :-)
[07:57] <Darkside> ok i think i have a videoing solution setup..
[07:57] <jcoxon> costyn, daveake mine often purposely dump in the sea
[07:57] <costyn> jcoxon: why is that?
[07:58] <daveake> costyn: I could send buzz your way ;) http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=7821229264a0e01303a3bc652b7be324dfbf759f
[07:58] <jcoxon> costyn, often long range flights
[07:58] <jcoxon> testing stuff
[07:58] <jcoxon> no hope of return
[07:59] <daveake> cancel that - forgot t set the launch site. http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=12bc8a07805f2eb560bfd1b9e423447bda9d16af
[07:59] <costyn> trying to decide whether to get my HAM novice license. HAM friend is willing to sell his 817 for a friendly price. But I'm wondering if it's worht the time and money investment; if I'll do much with it besides the occasional balloon track
[08:00] <fsphil> jcoxon, that's a great writeup on dan's launch
[08:00] <costyn> daveake: hehe that'd be cool
[08:00] <jcoxon> fsphil, good story
[08:00] <jcoxon> costyn, they are good fun to have
[08:00] <costyn> daveake: hmmm second link is a bit further :)
[08:00] <fsphil> I didn't know Bill worked for NASA
[08:00] <jcoxon> and you might find ham stuff interesting
[08:01] <daveake> costyn - yeah, but a bit less gas and it'll get closer :)
[08:01] <jcoxon> he sort of does
[08:01] <jcoxon> i think he works for a contractor
[08:01] <costyn> jcoxon: yea... it's just that I already have so many gadgets at home which are not getting enough of my time :)
[08:01] <fsphil> close enough :)
[08:01] <jcoxon> costyn, welcome to habbing :-D
[08:01] <fsphil> amateur radio .. it always starts with one radio. but they breed
[08:01] <daveake> PPG use software of mine to mix paint for NASA. That's as close as I'll get :)
[08:01] <costyn> fsphil: :
[08:01] <costyn> fsphil: :)
[08:02] <Darkside> oh man
[08:02] <Darkside> if you use flux, these ublox modules are piss easy to solder
[08:02] <costyn> haha
[08:02] <fsphil> flux makes *everything* easier
[08:02] <costyn> Darkside: something you wish you'd discovered earlier I'm guessing?
[08:03] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] uBlox NEO-6Q"
[08:04] <Darkside> bah, my head gets in the way of the video
[08:05] <UpuWork> All done jcoxon
[08:05] <UpuWork> I don't have any data to add to the balloon page due to the antenna issue
[08:06] <jcoxon> i just added the other 2 flights
[08:07] <jcoxon> fsphil, i've added solar panel voltage to pico atlas
[08:07] <UpuWork> cheers
[08:07] <jcoxon> fun watching it slowly increase and charge the battery
[08:07] <jcoxon> http://m6jcx.no-ip.org/dl-fldigi/index.html
[08:09] <Darkside> my oh my that was a badly done pcb..
[08:10] <Darkside> no shorts, but the ublox module is badly aligned
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[08:23] <Darkside> oh screw doing a video
[08:23] <Darkside> too ahrd
[08:23] <jcoxon> this is worth watching
[08:23] <jcoxon> http://www.archive.org/details/gov.archives.arc.13084
[08:23] <griffonbot> Received email: Ed Moore "Re: [UKHAS] uBlox NEO-6Q"
[08:26] <jcoxon> especially the technical tear down
[08:29] <fsphil> jcoxon, simple to read voltages? I've never done it before but it would be really useful
[08:29] <RocketBoy> HABing is so much easier now
[08:29] <jcoxon> japanese very clever though
[08:30] <jcoxon> fsphil, just a voltage divider
[08:30] <fsphil> good video that if it's the one i think it is
[08:30] <Darkside> also, this is the spec-an that we have in the RF lab eroomde Randomskk http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13852925/xbeepro900.jpg
[08:34] <jcoxon> hmmm payload could really do with some sunshine if its ever going to power up the gps
[08:35] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] uBlox NEO-6Q"
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[09:00] <griffonbot> Received email: WillD "[UKHAS] Re: uBlox NEO-6Q"
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[09:31] <griffonbot> Received email: "[UKHAS] How may balloons could be tracked simultaneously?"
[09:32] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] uBlox NEO-6Q"
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[09:41] <griffonbot> Received email: Daniel Richman "Re: [UKHAS] How may balloons could be tracked simultaneously?"
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[09:44] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] uBlox NEO-6Q"
[09:55] <griffonbot> Received email: Mark Jessop "Re: [UKHAS] uBlox NEO-6Q"
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[10:08] <griffonbot> Received email: David Bowkis "Re: [UKHAS] uBlox NEO-6Q"
[10:12] <UpuWork> I mailed the manufacturer
[10:13] <UpuWork> to verify it was AND COCOM compliance
[10:15] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Randall "Re: [UKHAS] uBlox NEO-6Q"
[10:20] <WillDuckworth> where do you reckon's the best place to get the helical antenna's from UpuWork / Darkside et al?
[10:21] <UpuWork> RS do them
[10:21] <Darkside> cheaper at Richardson though
[10:21] <UpuWork> but maybe offset by postage
[10:21] <Darkside> yeah maybe
[10:22] <Darkside> i might try RS next time
[10:22] <WillDuckworth> i''ll have a look see find out
[10:22] <number10> is that based in australia Richardson? if so could you get clobbered for tax?
[10:22] <UpuWork> WillDuckworth 1 sec I'll get you link
[10:22] <Darkside> nah its US
[10:22] <Darkside> we only get taxed on imports >AUD$1000
[10:22] <Darkside> not like you unlocky sods in the UK
[10:22] <Darkside> unlucky*
[10:22] <UpuWork> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/products/6974238/?searchTerm=SL1202RH&relevancy-data=636F3D3226696E3D4931384E4B6E6F776E41734D504E266C753D656E266D6D3D6D61746368616C6C7061727469616C26706D3D5E5C772B2426706F3D313326736E3D592673743D4D414E5F504152545F4E554D424552267573743D534C3132303252482677633D424F544826
[10:23] <UpuWork> If you're ordering lets get a big order together so we can get a better break point
[10:24] <Darkside> UpuWork: so you got a quote from alpha for the NEOs?
[10:24] <WillDuckworth> looks ok to me UpuWork
[10:25] <WillDuckworth> active type any good? http://www.2k1.co.uk/products/productdesc.php?pid=ce60ff163cab97029cc727e20e0fc3a7
[10:25] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] How may balloons could be tracked simultaneously?"
[10:25] <Darkside> active will be fine too, but its not needed for HABbing
[10:25] <Darkside> just uses more power
[10:25] <Darkside> plus the NEOs won't supply an active antenna with power, you'd need a separate supply for tht
[10:31] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Randall "Re: [UKHAS] uBlox NEO-6Q"
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[10:37] <griffonbot> Received email: Nigel Smart "Re: [UKHAS] uBlox NEO-6Q"
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[10:49] <griffonbot> Received email: Daniel Richman "Re: [UKHAS] How may balloons could be tracked simultaneously?"
[10:54] <UpuWork> more mails than chat on the channel today...
[10:54] <daveake> Exactly what I was going to say :)
[10:58] <griffonbot> Received email: Rick Hewett "[UKHAS] Re: How may balloons could be tracked simultaneously?"
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[11:01] <griffonbot> Received email: Ed Moore "Re: [UKHAS] How may balloons could be tracked simultaneously?"
[11:02] <fsphil> this sounds like an interesting project
[11:02] <costyn> it does
[11:02] <fsphil> I wonder if they're all up at the same time, it could create a mesh network
[11:02] <fsphil> each payload relaying data for the others
[11:03] <costyn> swarm computing!
[11:03] <fsphil> an actual swarm too :)
[11:03] <Darkside> just setup an AX25 network
[11:03] <costyn> we dont get enough buzzwords around here, thought I'd do my bit :P
[11:03] <Darkside> could do it on UHF
[11:03] <fsphil> ax25 on 869mhz
[11:03] <Darkside> asll, ISM band
[11:03] <fsphil> 500mw
[11:03] <Darkside> heh
[11:03] <Darkside> wow
[11:03] <fsphil> that might work
[11:04] <fsphil> 10% duty, but that's perfect for this
[11:05] <fsphil> as long as one balloon is in the air (regular latex payload maybe) it could relay data from the rest even near the ground
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[11:05] <fsphil> close enough to get the recovery team near the landing sites anyway
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[11:19] <Laurenceb_> the arduino RF22 lib looks amazing
[11:19] <jcoxon> Laurenceb_, it is but its an enormous memory hog
[11:19] <WillDuckworth> anyone requesting those GPS units from Upu/Anthony who'd also like a helical antenna - let him know and we'll try to bung a bulk order through. unlikely to be available before the conference though :(
[11:19] <griffonbot> Received email: WillD "[UKHAS] Re: uBlox NEO-6Q"
[11:19] <Laurenceb_> jcoxon: not on stm32 XD
[11:20] <jcoxon> that is true
[11:20] Action: Laurenceb_ is porting it to stm32
[11:20] <jcoxon> on an atmega168 it is
[11:20] <Laurenceb_> for Dactyl
[11:20] <jcoxon> well its not really possible
[11:20] <Laurenceb_> jcoxon: you could reduce the packet size
[11:20] <jcoxon> it wasn't really what i wanted so i moved on
[11:21] <Laurenceb_> balloon mesh netwrok would be kind of cool
[11:22] <fsphil> very
[11:22] <costyn> so many more things that can go wrong! :D
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[11:30] <Laurenceb_> im taking the packet size down to 64 bytes from 255
[11:45] <Laurenceb_> its actually pretty clever - took me ages to work out the protocol :P
[11:46] <Laurenceb_> uses the hardware packet handling, but allows >64bytes
[11:50] <griffonbot> Received email: Oliver De Peyer "Re: [UKHAS] How may balloons could be tracked simultaneously?"
[11:52] <Laurenceb_> over 9000
[11:54] <costyn> Laurenceb_: XD
[11:56] <SpeedEvil> In principle I guess the current architecture could cope with 3 or 4 balloons in teh same spectrum
[11:57] <SpeedEvil> If fldigi could understand multiples coming throuhg the same audio.
[12:01] <daveake> Multiple sound cards and separate copies of dl-fldigi?
[12:02] <daveake> Sorry ... one card and multiple copies
[12:02] <daveake> Brain still not working today
[12:03] <SpeedEvil> I meant one soundcard, one reciever, with multiple payloads in-band
[12:04] <SpeedEvil> And teach fldigi how to decode several streams at once
[12:04] <SpeedEvil> Which sounds like it'd be challenging.
[12:05] <W0OTM> morning
[12:05] <W0OTM> (or eve depending on where you are)
[12:05] <GW8RAK> My £8.50 Canon camera has arrived today :) . Unfortunately no SD card. Do I need a fast one for video recording under CHDK or will any type do?
[12:06] <W0OTM> For those who havnt seen it. iHAB-7 Launch Highlight Video [HD] - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvdi8QoJNoc
[12:06] <daveake> SpeedEvil - Yes, understood now :-). But if 1 copy can't do it, several copies running simultaneously should still work.
[12:06] <SpeedEvil> GW8RAK: More or less any
[12:06] <griffonbot> Received email: Oliver De Peyer "Re: [UKHAS] How may balloons could be tracked simultaneously?"
[12:06] <SpeedEvil> daveake: In principle yes, if the soundcard can be opened multiple times. It would rely on the transmitters being stable to +-100hz or so.
[12:06] <daveake> GW8RAK: Just check what max size the camera can handle.
[12:07] <GW8RAK> Currently RTFM'ing
[12:07] <daveake> SpeedEvil: Yep
[12:08] <SpeedEvil> And of course, doing it that way will desensitise the receiver if the balloons are at noticably different ranges
[12:09] <SpeedEvil> I don't know how much it takes to degrade teh signal - will a +20dB signal have much effect?
[12:09] <GW8RAK> Nothing in the manual on max card size. Will try a few I've got at home
[12:09] <SpeedEvil> How old is it?
[12:09] <SpeedEvil> If it's old enough that 2G may seem big, it might have problems with SDHC cards
[12:09] <daveake> IIRC that one does take SDHC, so he's probably OK
[12:13] <GW8RAK> 2GB has been tested and worked okay apparently. It's about 4 years old I believe
[12:13] <GW8RAK> A460
[12:14] <fsphil> if fldigi could handle more than 4khz bandwidth, using the funcube dongle you could receive many payloads. fldigi can receive multiple rtty streams at a time now
[12:15] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
[12:15] <fsphil> psk31 would be even better
[12:15] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb had a poke at it a while back, and IIRC it seemed a mess, and diddn't seem particularly trivial to get to work
[12:15] <SpeedEvil> But psk can't be easily done with the existing modules
[12:15] <fsphil> fldigi seems to work at different sample rates depending on the mode used
[12:16] <fsphil> indeed. I wonder why, is it easier to make an FM module?
[12:16] <SpeedEvil> It's an interesting question on if it can be done at all, which depends on the phase performance of the modules, I guess
[12:16] <SpeedEvil> You can do PSK with FM, quite simply
[12:16] <SpeedEvil> You just FM the carrier for a total time enough at a different frequecy to shift the phase.
[12:18] <SpeedEvil> If it goes +-10KHz, then you have +-3.6 degrees/iusecond tuning, so you need a 50us or so pulse of max or min tune to shift the phase 180 degrees
[12:18] <SpeedEvil> Or something like that
[12:18] <fsphil> have you tried it?
[12:19] <SpeedEvil> This is an argument in principle.
[12:19] <SpeedEvil> The exact performance depends on stuff.
[12:20] <SpeedEvil> For example - how well will the reciever cope if you're 5 degrees off.
[12:20] <SpeedEvil> Plus - PSK31 has no advantage if you can't keep the transmitter stable enough to not bang into others.
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[12:21] <fsphil> thinking narrower bandwidth
[12:22] <SpeedEvil> Narrower bandwidth only has a major point if you can use it. If you can put a narrowband filter around it, and avoid co-channel interference that way
[12:22] <SpeedEvil> Or if it greatly reduces the amount of spectrum noise you care about
[12:22] <fsphil> I suppose just using FM and more power would probably still be as good as psk or rtty
[12:22] <SpeedEvil> psk, and rtty are as I understand it more or less similar
[12:23] <SpeedEvil> The only difference is with rtty, you have a little more than twice the bandwidth the signal occupies.
[12:23] <SpeedEvil> (you don't care about the bit in the middle so much)
[12:23] <fsphil> indeed
[12:24] <SpeedEvil> FM works well, but requires a signal margin over anything else in the channel, which PSK and rtty don't
[12:24] <griffonbot> Received email: steamfire@gmail.com "Re: [UKHAS] How may balloons could be tracked simultaneously?"
[12:24] <SpeedEvil> (they only require margin over interfering signals, not just signals in the same passband)
[12:24] <fsphil> why I was thinking of more power. the 500mw modules are bound to have pretty good range
[12:25] <SpeedEvil> Isn't the limit...
[12:25] <SpeedEvil> oh - that's for 433 isn't it
[12:25] <fsphil> 839mhz @ 500mw (10% duty)
[12:25] <fsphil> the frequency will drift but that's not as important for fm
[12:25] <SpeedEvil> Depending also on the backfround noise
[12:25] <SpeedEvil> Where do I remember that number from...
[12:26] <fsphil> true. here at least 869mhz is pretty empty
[12:26] <SpeedEvil> I vaguely recall ~800 is used for RF heating in meatpacking and similar plants
[12:26] <SpeedEvil> Which is the reason for the exempt band.
[12:26] <fsphil> might be worth bringing the fcd up to the hill and see how much noise there is
[12:28] <fsphil> radiometrix claim a range of 5km using their transceiver. wonder how optimistic that is
[12:28] <fsphil> no price either, it may well be more expensive than a gsm tracker
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[12:38] <Laurenceb_> how do i start a jack server on linux?
[12:38] Action: SpeedEvil resists the temptation to refer Laurenceb to youtube.
[12:39] <Laurenceb_> ACK is running in realtime mode, but you are not allowed to use realtime scheduling.
[12:39] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Hg7M8qI5m8
[12:39] <daveake> Oh, why did I click that...? :)
[12:40] <fsphil> sfw?
[12:41] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: If 80s crap music is ever safe for work.
[12:41] <daveake> For work yes; your mental health probably not
[12:41] <fsphil> ah
[12:41] Action: fsphil is feeling daring today
[12:41] Action: fsphil turns it off
[12:41] <SpeedEvil> http://jackaudio.org/linux_rt_config
[12:42] <Laurenceb_> sudo usermod -a -G audio
[12:42] <GW8RAK> Seriously dodgy 80's music
[12:42] <Laurenceb_> sermod: user 'audio' does not exist
[12:42] <Laurenceb_> ^wut
[12:42] <SpeedEvil> you'd need to add a user audio
[12:43] <Laurenceb_> http://pastebin.com/TSwkY9Sf
[12:43] <SpeedEvil> Or add the realtime permission to the audio group
[12:43] <SpeedEvil> see above page
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[12:55] <Laurenceb_> works
[12:55] <Laurenceb_> thanks
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[13:00] <griffonbot> Received email: Oliver de Peyer "Re: [UKHAS] How may balloons could be tracked simultaneously?"
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[13:04] <Laurenceb_> trying to get fluidsynth working with HIDUINO
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[13:28] <Laurenceb_> basically arduino uno with a 9dof sensor stick to make a configurable 'air instrument'
[13:28] <Laurenceb_> so you map out the instruments/midi devices in 3d
[13:29] <Laurenceb_> using diydrones+hiduino to make the arduino a midi device
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[13:42] <SpeedEvil> odd
[13:42] <SpeedEvil> But OK. :)
[13:46] <costyn> Laurenceb_: I have no idea what you just described, but it sounds cool
[13:47] <costyn> Laurenceb_: I understood individual words, but not as a sentence :P
[13:49] <griffonbot> Received email: Dan Bowen "Re: [UKHAS] How may balloons could be tracked simultaneously?"
[13:50] <Laurenceb_> costyn: like air guitar
[13:51] <fsphil> costyn, I get that a lot in this channel :)
[13:51] <fsphil> Just nod and agree
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[13:54] <number10> just nodded off - damn piece of equipment started bleeping and woke me up :(
[13:56] <costyn> Laurenceb_: aah sounds cool
[13:56] <costyn> fsphil: :)
[14:04] <griffonbot> Received email: Oliver de Peyer "Re: [UKHAS] How may balloons could be tracked simultaneously?"
[14:22] <daveake> Just been to collect my helium cylinder.
[14:23] <daveake> Weather might be OK on Sunday, but doesn't look likely for Saturday.
[14:24] <daveake> fsphil - remind me when you're planning to launch?
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[14:28] <number10> daveake - are you using one of those gsm trackers that you used on the last baloon?
[14:29] <daveake> Nope. That would weigh nearly as much as the rest of the payload!
[14:29] <number10> oh - this is the small one
[14:29] <daveake> Yep
[14:30] <daveake> Lot less to replace if it does end up in the S-word again
[14:30] <number10> I C
[14:30] <number10> what size baloon?
[14:31] <daveake> 1600g. Payload ~100g inc chute
[14:31] <number10> darkside will be !pleased
[14:32] <daveake> :)
[14:36] <number10> home time
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[14:37] <fsphil> daveake, whenever DM takes a fancy and does the notam
[14:37] <fsphil> I'd love to have done it this weekend. the winds are right for carrying it over england
[14:39] <daveake> Ah, yes. How long you been waiting?
[14:40] <fsphil> sent the request in July
[14:40] <daveake> Wow
[14:40] <fsphil> for the start to end of september
[14:41] <daveake> Sent mine last week :p
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[14:41] <daveake> It's 'cos I got the same first name, you see ;)
[14:42] <fsphil> that has to be it lol
[14:42] <fsphil> I did get one before in two weeks
[14:43] <Upu> Pester him
[14:43] <Upu> thats what we did
[14:43] <daveake> Yep
[14:43] <fsphil> He's well overdue another poke
[14:44] <fsphil> though at this point I'll probably wait until after the conf
[14:44] <fsphil> still this weekend is nice
[14:47] <Upu> tell him he might get you one out for the weekend
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[15:46] <Laurenceb_> http://www.esa.int/images/21906_A4,0.jpg
[15:59] <SamSilver_> Laurenceb_: i am sure the building at bottom left is in the blast zone
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[16:02] Nick change: SamSIlver -> SamSilver
[16:02] <SamSilver> ?nick SamSilver
[16:04] <fsphil> uh-oh http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-15182118
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[16:24] <daveake> Added a new screen to my car pc program. This one http://i.imgur.com/zeg25.png shows the distance and direction from the chase car to the payload, plus speed of both. The blue line shows the direction of the payload relative to the car's direction of motion, and the red one shows where the payload will have moved to by the time the car gets there (or the payload lands, whichever comes first)
[16:24] <daveake> Very rough calculations for those last two :)
[16:27] <number10> youve been busy daveake
[16:27] <daveake> In between real work, yes :)
[16:27] <number10> productivity is down then
[16:28] <number10> whats the prediction for sunday?
[16:29] <daveake> Yeah, sometimes it's difficult to think of anything other than hab stuff ...
[16:30] <daveake> 5m/s option: http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=f35530110769f1bdcdb9f436a873cfe1cac7f701
[16:31] <daveake> and the daring 3m/s option ;) http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=6eb4875d965c2d1b21cbc3441f908f1414f27f64
[16:31] <number10> quite windy
[16:32] <daveake> Yep :(
[16:32] <daveake> Might have to wait a week, or more
[16:32] <daveake> Which is fine. No rush
[16:34] <number10> probably wise - its a difficult location where you are - west of london with prevailing westerlies
[16:34] <daveake> Yep
[16:35] <number10> do you know anything about the predictor.likw were the find forcasts come from?
[16:35] <number10> finsd == wind
[16:35] <daveake> Google streetview - attack of the giant leaf monster - http://tinyurl.com/6ywftc8
[16:36] <daveake> jonsowman is the person to ask about that.
[16:37] <daveake> All I know is that the maps are updated every 6 hours
[16:37] <daveake> Wind data, I mean,not maps
[16:40] <number10> probably GRIB
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[17:42] <hburger> Hey! Anyone there who can help me with some balloon launching questions?
[17:43] <SpeedEvil> Probably.
[17:44] <hburger> Actually first, how do you calculate the descent rate of the balloon?
[17:44] <SpeedEvil> you use the drag formulae, and the parachute drag and the weight
[17:44] <hburger> I'd basically like to make sure the values I've entered into the CUSF are correct
[17:46] <hburger> GFS definition? What do I enter for that?
[17:46] <SpeedEvil> where are you entering these?
[17:47] <hburger> http://habhub.org/predict/
[17:48] <SpeedEvil> you don't need to enter that
[17:48] <SpeedEvil> scroll to where you want to launch.
[17:48] <SpeedEvil> (you will need permission)
[17:48] <hburger> Yup
[17:48] <SpeedEvil> click 'set with map'
[17:49] <hburger> mhm
[17:49] <hburger> (I have permission)
[17:49] <SpeedEvil> Set a time, an ascent and descent rate, a burst alt, and that's it
[17:49] <SpeedEvil> from the CAA?
[17:51] <hburger> Yep
[17:51] <hburger> So, nothing with GFS or Lat/Lon?
[17:53] <SpeedEvil> If you want to enter the lat/lon, you can.
[17:53] <SpeedEvil> Or you can just set it with the map
[17:53] <hburger> (the deltas, I mean)
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[17:56] <SpeedEvil> no
[17:56] <SpeedEvil> You can leave it all as it is
[17:56] <hburger> Cool. It's still the drag that I'm not sure about
[17:57] <hburger> *descent rate
[17:58] <SpeedEvil> In general, you want to size the parachute for around 5m/s or so tops
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[18:31] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[18:32] <fsphil> hihihi
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[18:39] <Lunar_Lander> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=4b4b3a11348dfafd710b8004df20438a4027746f
[18:39] <Lunar_Lander> where is the launch there?
[18:39] <Lunar_Lander> I just sent the link to a friend and she said that the launch is in Cambridge but I set it up for Osnabrueck
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[18:41] <fsphil> Looks ok to me
[18:42] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[18:42] <Lunar_Lander> strange
[18:42] <fsphil> http://i.imgur.com/oL3Pl.jpg
[18:42] <fsphil> the link may be missing some characters
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[18:43] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[18:43] <fsphil> or has wrapped on the line
[18:43] <Lunar_Lander> thanks for checking
[18:43] <Lunar_Lander> yeah the 2nd thing
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[18:44] <Lunar_Lander> thanks :)
[18:49] <Lunar_Lander> and hi DrLuke
[18:49] <DrLuke> Hey
[18:49] <Lunar_Lander> sorry, yesterday my internet started to fail
[18:49] <DrLuke> I went to bed anyways
[18:49] <Lunar_Lander> I only got "No internet access" even though the router was online
[18:49] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
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[18:50] Topic changed on #highaltitude by jonsowman!jonsowman@kryten.hexoc.com: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk - Select Biosciences Launch ~1100BST 08/10/11 from Churchill College, Cambridge
[18:50] #highaltitude: mode change '-o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[18:53] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok DrLuke
[18:53] <Lunar_Lander> jonsowman : what are they planning to do?
[18:53] <Lunar_Lander> Select Biosciences I mean
[18:53] <jonsowman> Lunar_Lander: I'll forward an email to the list about it in the next couple of days
[18:53] <jonsowman> but it's a test of the Radiometrix 9600 baud modems
[18:54] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[18:54] <jonsowman> including images
[18:54] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[18:54] <jonsowman> the weather is really not looking good so it's only provisional
[18:54] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[18:56] <fsphil> I've gone and lost an sd card adaptor
[18:57] <fsphil> why do they always disappear when you need them
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[18:59] <fsphil> yay, found it
[18:59] <fsphil> are the images being uploaded jonsowman, or just received on the ground?
[18:59] <jonsowman> just received on the ground fsphil
[19:00] <jonsowman> they're using the receiver from the 9600 baud RM pair along with a custom built RF frontend
[19:00] <jonsowman> they've not provided me with much technical detail tbh
[19:00] <fsphil> will be neat if it works
[19:01] <Laurenceb_> lol wikipedia
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[19:01] <Laurenceb_> the new banner is pretty bad
[19:02] <Lunar_Lander> hi Paradoxial
[19:02] <Laurenceb_> he needs to clean his hair and face
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[19:07] <Lunar_Lander> this receipe is good :) http://www.mjpehl.com/uncategorized/a-recipe-for-good-yumminess.html
[19:07] <costyn> good evening all
[19:07] <Lunar_Lander> hi costyn
[19:07] <costyn> I finally was able to program my stalker board... guess it was a PEBCAK problem after all
[19:07] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:08] <costyn> or maybe I should blame seeedstudio after all for not providing any basic documentation for this board
[19:08] <costyn> anyways, on to the real work now
[19:11] <costyn> god... I don't believe it
[19:11] <costyn> (sorry if anyone's religious)
[19:11] <costyn> seems I can't upload sketches to the board if the gps-bee is attached to the board?!
[19:12] <costyn> how the heck am I supposed to upload and debug anything if I have to attach/detach/attach the gpsbee all the time?
[19:12] <Paradoxial> Hi Lunar
[19:12] <Paradoxial> Any update on those sensor peripherals?
[19:13] <Lunar_Lander> not yet, sorry the professor wasn't in today
[19:13] <Lunar_Lander> I was told that he is there tomorrow
[19:13] <Lunar_Lander> and I hope he is
[19:16] <Lunar_Lander> did you have a chance to check the PDFs? Paradoxial
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[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> hi RocketBoy
[19:20] <RocketBoy> hey Lunar_Lander
[19:21] <RocketBoy> been doing anything new?
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> yeah talking with Paradoxial on the balloon, and advising DrLuke
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> in fact jcoxon told him to write m
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> and you?
[19:21] <DrLuke> hehe
[19:22] <DrLuke> Lunar_Lander: did you register your flight with the Flugsicherung yet?
[19:22] <RocketBoy> just hacking some PIC code
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> not yet because we are not ready :)
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> but I did call them months ago to ask about how registering works
[19:23] <RocketBoy> is Flugsicherung the german Aviation Authority ?
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[19:23] <DrLuke> yes
[19:23] <DrLuke> Did you call one of those guys: http://www.dfs.de/dfs/internet_2008/module/luftsport_und_freizeit/deutsch/luftsport_und_freizeit/sonstige_aktivitaeten/index.html ?
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> Mrs. Allhoff it was
[19:24] <DrLuke> Alright, then I'll also do so tomorrow!
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> yeah :)
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[19:25] <RocketBoy> humm literally Flugsicherung Air Traffic Control?
[19:26] <RocketBoy> you gotta love german
[19:26] <RocketBoy> so logical
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[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> hello jcoxon
[19:27] <DrLuke> Hey
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[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> hello GW8RAK
[19:39] <GW8RAK> Hi LUnar_Lander
[19:39] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
[19:39] <GW8RAK> Or even Lunar
[19:39] <GW8RAK> Fine.
[19:39] <GW8RAK> Got a cheap camera from ebay, all working and got CHDK on it. :)
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[19:40] <GW8RAK> You?
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[19:40] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[19:40] <Lunar_Lander> I am OK thanks
[19:41] <Laurenceb_> how can i work out whats causing my machjine to keep rebooting?
[19:41] <Laurenceb_> - ubuntu 10.04
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[19:41] <DrLuke> GW8RAK - What's the model?
[19:41] <GW8RAK> Upu, how far offshore did your balloon lan?
[19:42] <GW8RAK> Canon A460 DrLuke. £8.50
[19:42] <DrLuke> thanks
[19:42] <Laurenceb_> is there some sort of logfile somewhere/
[19:42] <GW8RAK> A bit cheaper than the normal A560
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[19:52] <costyn> Laurenceb_: it reboots without any warning?
[19:52] <Laurenceb_> yes
[19:52] <Laurenceb_> happened twice today
[19:52] <costyn> Laurenceb_: you can check /var/log/syslog or /var/log/dmesg
[19:52] <Laurenceb_> k
[19:53] <costyn> or if you just type dmesg you should get a kernel log
[19:53] <costyn> but that'll only show it from the time you booted
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[19:53] <costyn> wouldn't be as useful
[19:53] <Laurenceb_> Oct 5 20:46:05 laurence-thinkpad AptDaemon: INFO: Quiting due to inactivity
[19:54] <Laurenceb_> Oct 5 20:46:05 laurence-thinkpad AptDaemon: INFO: Shutdown was requested
[19:54] <Laurenceb_> ^of the system?
[19:54] <costyn> hmm
[19:54] <Laurenceb_> no wait it was at 38
[19:55] <costyn> Laurenceb_: aptdeamon is your package mananager... do you have perhaps automatic updates with reboot set up?
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[19:55] <Lunar_Lander> hi nosebleedKT
[19:55] <nosebleedKT> hi all
[19:55] <nosebleedKT> :)
[19:56] <nosebleedKT> I was in a hackerspace meeting tonight
[19:56] <costyn> Laurenceb_: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1497384
[19:56] <nosebleedKT> but electronics were so low experience
[19:57] <Laurenceb_> http://pastebin.com/jJawFgF5
[19:57] <nosebleedKT> arduino blinking leds and stuff :(
[19:57] <costyn> Laurenceb_: might be a ACPI problem
[19:58] <costyn> Laurenceb_: where the paste-bin ends your laptop rebooted?
[19:58] <Laurenceb_> no it didnt reboot
[19:58] <Laurenceb_> only logged me out it looks like
[19:58] <Laurenceb_> but killed all my processes
[19:59] <costyn> Laurenceb_: ok, so what was described in my link wasn't what you had
[19:59] <Lunar_Lander> oh nosebleedKT
[19:59] <Laurenceb_> no
[20:00] <costyn> Laurenceb_: try an ls -ltra in /var/log, the last changed logs should be at the bottom. see if you can find anything else which changed around the time you were logged out
[20:01] <costyn> Laurenceb_: daemon.log might have something
[20:02] <costyn> although I'm mostly familiar with servers running ubuntu (and linux in general); there might be userland processes running which could have caused this
[20:02] <Laurenceb_> where is daemon.log?
[20:03] <costyn> Laurenceb_: should also live in /var/log
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[20:06] <Laurenceb_> http://pastebin.com/hYBkh9Cf
[20:08] <costyn> Laurenceb_: I don't see a smoking gun in those logs unfortunately
[20:08] <costyn> Laurenceb_: I'm googling to see what it might be
[20:09] <Laurenceb_> thanks
[20:09] <Laurenceb_> 20:39 is when it loggs me out
[20:09] <Laurenceb_> previously i restarted
[20:11] <costyn> Laurenceb_: what graphics card do you have in it?
[20:11] <costyn> Laurenceb_: is it dual boot or only ubuntu?
[20:11] <Laurenceb_> dual boot
[20:11] <Laurenceb_> integrated graphics of some sort..
[20:11] <Laurenceb_> guessing intel
[20:12] <Upu> evening GW8RAK
[20:12] <Upu> about 4-5 miles
[20:12] <Upu> jsut arguing with Eagle atm
[20:12] <costyn> Laurenceb_: how many times has it happened?
[20:12] <Laurenceb_> about 4
[20:12] <Upu> move group / copy group 2 simple things that Eagle makes epically hard
[20:13] <GW8RAK> Okay, thanks Upu. Just wondering about the smoothness of the North Sea. Two good videos.
[20:13] <costyn> Laurenceb_: same day or once a day?
[20:13] <Laurenceb_> same day
[20:13] <Upu> yeah it was very very smooth
[20:13] <Upu> pictures later on it was almost bottle glass smooth
[20:13] <costyn> Laurenceb_: was the laptop busy at the time? high load?
[20:13] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[20:14] <Laurenceb_> heavy load when it went down
[20:14] <costyn> Laurenceb_: might be overheating, you could install the package 'sensors' to see your cpu temp and such
[20:14] <Laurenceb_> hmm yeah ok
[20:15] <costyn> Laurenceb_: try searching for 'computertemp' in synaptic
[20:15] <costyn> Laurenceb_: there are several programs available for temp monitoring, check this thread (one of many) http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1494180
[20:15] <costyn> I'm gonna go give the missus some attention... ttyl!
[20:16] <Laurenceb_> ive used sensors before
[20:16] <Laurenceb_> thanks for the help
[20:18] <GW8RAK> Lucky costyn's missus
[20:18] <Laurenceb_> stay safe http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSdrrm-L_sk
[20:18] <daveake_> :D
[20:20] <daveake_> Well, that was fun .... I've written a little DF-ing program for my car PC. It shows a big arrow pointing to where the payload is, based on the direction from car to payload and the direction the car is going in.
[20:20] <daveake_> So I've tested it by driving round the nearby roads. :)
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[20:21] <daveake_> It also shows which way the payload is going, so you get an idea of where to go.
[20:22] <Lunar_Lander> yay!
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[20:27] <SpeedEvil> daveake_: Neat
[20:28] <daveake_> It did feel quite neat a I drove around :-)
[20:28] <daveake_> as
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> that sounds good
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[20:29] <daveake_> The main arrow's length depends on distance to payload. On the end of that there's a second arrow showing the direction the payload is going, and the length of that arrow shows how far it will have moved before it lands, or the car arrives, whichever comes first.
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:29] <daveake_> Can't be very accurate with that last bit, but at least it gives an indication of where to go
[20:31] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> was it difficult to program?
[20:35] <Laurenceb_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=011WFfB0GSo&feature=related
[20:35] <Laurenceb_> ok so they owned by air drum idea
[20:37] <daveake_> Lunar_Lander - no ... I found some code on the web for calculating direction and distance between a pair of longitude/latitude points. Other than that it's decoding of the RTTY text to get the HAB position etc., and decoding of the NMEA strings from the car's GPS receiver. Finally a bit of graphics.
[20:38] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:40] <Laurenceb_> *my
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[20:54] <jonsowman> number10: the predictor uses GFS data rather than GRIB
[20:54] <jonsowman> provided by the NOAA
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[20:56] <number10> thanks jonsowman
[20:57] <fsphil> who developed the chase car program for android?
[20:57] <jonsowman> number10: https://github.com/jonsowman/cusf-standalone-predictor
[20:57] <jonsowman> there's some info in the readme
[20:57] <jonsowman> along with some links
[20:57] <costyn> Laurenceb_: I think I saw a Make Magazine project with some guy making a laser harp; thought that was cool
[20:59] <costyn> Laurenceb_: and thanks for the video :P missus is 8 months preggers, so it's already too late! :)
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[20:59] <costyn> anyhoo, off to bed...
[21:01] <Laurenceb_> cya
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[21:10] <Upu> Darkside awake ?
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[21:11] <nickolai> hello all
[21:11] <Upu> hi nickolai
[21:11] <nickolai> hey upu, how've u been?
[21:11] <Upu> not bad :)
[21:12] <Upu> just done an Eagle part for the uBlox 6 in Eagle
[21:12] <Upu> hows you ?
[21:12] <nickolai> busy, haven't had much time to work on HAB with school but i'm trying to assemble my lassen iq now
[21:13] <Upu> ok
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> OK
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> time for good night
[21:18] <DrLuke> Good night
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[21:38] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] uBlox NEO-6Q"
[21:41] <nickolai> i'm wondering about the lassen iq, if anyone has any input.... in the manual (gpsd.berlios.de/vendor-docs/trimble/trimble-lassen-iq.pdf page 28-29) it says rx ports must be connected to vcc via a pullup, but in this schematic (http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/wiki/doku.php/missions:ballasthalo:lassenbreakout#schematic) they seems to imply you don't need to connect the one you're not using...
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[21:46] <NigeyS> nickolai, just on the rx / tx you are using is required
[21:47] <fsphil> you only need to pull-up the gps's rx lines that you are not using
[21:48] <fsphil> it's to stop it floating and potentially generating random commands
[21:48] <nickolai> ok, so if i leave the one i'm not using floating it wont matter since i'm not reading from it?
[21:50] <fsphil> the gps is reading from it though :)
[21:51] <nickolai> ok, that makes more sense
[21:52] <nickolai> though the schematic to which i linked (and NigeyS) seem to imply the opposite for some reason...
[21:52] <nickolai> given that the failure mode for leaving pin 3 floating, according to the manual, is it will never produce a position fix, i think i'm confirming that... :-/
[21:54] <fsphil> not sure, I thought it was just to stop random commands being triggered in the gps
[21:55] <nickolai> yea, from reading the first couple google results on pullup resistors that makes sense
[21:55] <zyp> floating inputs amplify noise
[21:56] <nickolai> i'm trying to figure out how to get the thing to output gpgsa sentences so i can see what sort of satellite info its getting
[21:57] <fsphil> you might just be able to connect the gps rx pin to gnd
[21:57] <fsphil> the one that's not used
[21:57] <fsphil> (not expert advice ;-)
[21:58] <nickolai> haha thanks
[21:58] <nickolai> still trying to figure out how to command this thing using the rtcm protocol
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[21:59] <nickolai> i don't have an antenna for it so it's very possible that it can't produce a fix cuz it doesn't have a good signal
[21:59] <zyp> or vcc, since uart lines are high when inactive
[21:59] <fsphil> gnd is safer :)
[22:00] <zyp> how so?
[22:00] <fsphil> it's an rx line
[22:01] <zyp> so as long as you're within gnd-vcc you're fine
[22:01] <zyp> vcc should never be higher than vcc ;)
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[22:09] <fsphil> you've never seen my circuits ;)
[22:16] <Laurenceb_> gnd should never be higher than vcc
[22:16] <Laurenceb_> ^ftfy
[22:17] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/files/IMG_6480_stitch.jpg
[22:18] <Laurenceb_> sweeeet
[22:18] <nickolai> very nice...
[22:18] <nickolai> when did you launch?
[22:18] <Upu> Saturday
[22:18] <fsphil> That's a moon!
[22:19] <Laurenceb_> wheres a star as well
[22:19] <Laurenceb_> or mars?
[22:19] <fsphil> hot pixel?
[22:19] <Laurenceb_> wait... so how come you cant see the moon on the moon landing pictures then
[22:19] <fsphil> or venus
[22:19] <Laurenceb_> cant be due to the contrast as they say
[22:20] <Upu> not bad for a £20 A560 from E-Bay is it :)
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[22:28] <fsphil> no bright stars near the moon
[22:28] <fsphil> just a hot spot
[22:28] <fsphil> venus is near the sun atm
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[22:30] <nickolai> hm, talking to this lassen is kind of difficult. i can't find specs on the rtcm protocal online
[22:32] <nickolai> looks like i'll have to reconfigure these ports. oh well, new computer just arrived, i'll have to put this on hold for a few :)
[22:32] <Upu> right night all
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[22:35] <fsphil> night Upu
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[22:49] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: Short-lived supernova.
[22:49] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: Report it to the IAA
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[22:50] Action: SpeedEvil fails on acronym.
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[00:00] --- Thu Oct 6 2011