highaltitude.log.20110929

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[00:19] <SpeedEvil> And - here come the regulations.
[00:19] <SpeedEvil> http://it.slashdot.org/story/11/09/28/236211/man-charged-in-model-airplane-plot-to-bomb-pentagon
[00:20] <Dan-K2VOL> oh great
[00:21] <natrium42> :S
[00:21] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
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[00:26] <BrainDamage> I really hate how it takes for a single jackass to ruin the life of millions people
[00:26] <BrainDamage> like airplane "safety" checks ...
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[05:26] <Darkside> eroomde: ping
[05:27] <Darkside> eroomde: i'm looking for some info on how you did the CC1111 uplink stuff
[05:27] <Darkside> i'm wondering if its a viable option for a cutdown system
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[06:12] <costyn> morning
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[08:18] Action: Upu stabs David Miller
[08:19] <Darkside> >_>
[08:20] <natrium42> bonjour mes amis
[08:21] <Darkside> Gratuitous PCB porn: http://rfhead.net/gallery/2011-09-29_MicroNut_Tracker_Construction/
[08:22] <fsphil> not until he does my notam Upu :p
[08:22] <daveake> LOL
[08:22] <Upu> think someone has stabbed him already between Rob and I think we filled his answer phone tape up
[08:23] <WillDuckworth> what's the prob Upu?
[08:23] <Upu> He sucks
[08:23] <Upu> Trying to get a NOTAM for 3 months now
[08:24] <daveake> Wow
[08:24] <Upu> every time I speak to him its like yeah I'll get it issued no problem
[08:24] <daveake> I must be "special" ... he promised to mine with less than 2 weeks notice
[08:24] <Upu> if you request one for a specific time and day it gets done
[08:24] <Upu> if you ask for one thats opened ended it becomes and issue
[08:25] <daveake> Ah, gotcha
[08:25] <fsphil> I've been waiting 2 months now
[08:25] <fsphil> and mine is specific
[08:25] <Elwell> Darkside: looking nice
[08:25] <daveake> The common thread is here is that you two are foreigners ;)
[08:25] <WillDuckworth> yep, Darkside, nice setup
[08:26] <WillDuckworth> open ended notams do seem to be a problem
[08:26] <UpuWork> Darkside that is really nice, I am going to plagarise it btw
[08:26] <fsphil> maybe what they really need is short notams, but issued the day before
[08:27] <natrium42> 45 deg rotated mcu looks leet
[08:27] <fsphil> notam/permissions even. forget they're different
[08:28] <Darkside> UpuWork: hey, once i get the next version done i'll probably release the design
[08:28] <Darkside> its hard enough to build that n00bs probably won't try and make them
[08:28] <Darkside> plus obtaining the components can be hard enough
[08:29] <Darkside> especially the ublox modules
[08:29] <UpuWork> I notice the bottle of flux
[08:29] <Darkside> yes
[08:29] <Darkside> safely labeled too
[08:30] <Darkside> i was going to write 'not whiskey' on it, but i was warned that might not be a good idea
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[08:31] <fsphil> I can imagine :)
[08:31] <Darkside> heh
[08:32] <fsphil> the flux I have is clear
[08:32] <fsphil> have you been able to test the gps+antenna combo yet?
[08:33] <Darkside> eh?
[08:33] <Darkside> we've flown a micronut already :P
[08:33] <Darkside> its what was on Horus 16
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[08:35] <UpuWork> hey RocketBoy
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[08:37] <fsphil> aaaah
[08:37] <fsphil> for some reason I thought that was one of the bigger boards
[08:38] <fsphil> tell you what, that ubox6 makes a big difference to the battery life
[08:38] <fsphil> +l
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[08:39] <Darkside> yah i need to test that
[08:39] <Darkside> actually i can test that..
[08:40] <Darkside> i have a ublox 5 and a ublox 6 breakout here
[08:40] <Darkside> so i can just compare the current consumption
[08:44] <Darkside> ok, on 'boot', the ublox 5 draws 98mA, and the ublox 6 draws 58mA
[08:44] <Darkside> the current consumption should drop a lot once it gets lock
[08:45] <daveake> The ublox 5 consumption seems quite variable to me - jumps up and down a lot
[08:45] <Darkside> yeah
[08:46] <Darkside> you would have been testing it while its trying to gain lock
[08:46] <daveake> Yep
[08:46] <Darkside> it jumps modes a lot
[08:46] <Darkside> going from high to low power
[08:47] <daveake> Gave mine its own regulator to make sure that didn't affect anything else. Also with 4AAs feeding it, the existing regulator (on the Arduino Mini Pro) was getting a bit warm
[08:47] <Darkside> heh
[08:47] <daveake> Would probably have been OK but I didn't want to risk it giving up
[08:47] <Darkside> yeah, i need to do some runtime tests with the new ublox 6 micronuts
[08:50] <UpuWork> must have rattled Davids cage he's issuing us a NOTAM for this weekend...
[08:50] <daveake> :D
[08:50] <UpuWork> ..which we can't use as predictions suck for Baldersley :/
[08:50] <daveake> :(
[08:51] <UpuWork> I thought I'd give him a date we need it from but he's blatantly not read the request as he was batting on about weekdays and we only asked for weekends in the request
[08:51] Action: UpuWork stabs David Miller
[08:51] <daveake> I'm hoping for the following weekend. Too far away for any predictions, but those for midweek have a decidedly French air to them
[08:53] <daveake> I guess Buzz doesn't need a passport :)
[08:53] <costyn> Darkside: very nice, the micronuts... are you going to be selling them too?
[08:53] <Darkside> no
[08:53] <costyn> hmm too bad ;)
[08:54] <Darkside> :-)
[08:57] <fsphil> Darkside, would it be feasible to solder wire directly to a ublox6?
[08:58] <fsphil> or is that just a path of madness?
[08:59] <UpuWork> if its anything like the ISM chip it breaks the copper off the chip and ruins it
[09:01] <Darkside> fsphil: no
[09:01] <Darkside> you do NOT want to do that
[09:01] <Darkside> i made the breakout PCB for this reason
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[09:02] <Darkside> NigeyS: have you tested the meganut boards yet?
[09:02] <Darkside> i.e. do they work? :P
[09:03] <NigeyS> they do, but ive not tested the ntx2 yet, waiting for some 47k resistors, but got it programming and getting temps nicely :D
[09:03] <Darkside> cool
[09:04] <NigeyS> should have some time to play with them after this server work is finished next week
[09:04] <Darkside> heh ok
[09:06] <NigeyS> im soooooo tempted to replace jenson buttons homepage with a pic of vettel! lol
[09:07] <daveake> Or the old "Button hurt in F1 accident" picture ;)
[09:08] <NigeyS> hehe
[09:08] <NigeyS> i was gonna replace vodafones site with an orange logo yesterday lmao
[09:09] <UpuWork> that was my idea NigeyS :)
[09:09] <NigeyS> i can make it look like you did it? :P
[09:10] <UpuWork> NigeyS replace Vodafone with a picture of a steaming pile of turd as I feel that is more representative of their networks performance
[09:10] <NigeyS> just a small edit to syslog :D
[09:10] <NigeyS> lmao UpuWork so true!
[09:11] <NigeyS> you wouldnt believe the gried i had doing jensons site though, the DB didnt want to dump, access denied for every user, really pickled my brain
[09:11] <NigeyS> grief*
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[09:19] <Darkside> watching early episodes of babylon 5
[09:19] <Darkside> WHERE IS DELENN'S HAIR
[09:26] <fsphil> haha
[09:26] <fsphil> funny was just talking about babylon 5 with someone on the factory floor earlier
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[09:27] <fsphil> still one of my fav shows
[09:31] <Darkside> loll delenn is watching daffy duck with garabaldi
[09:33] <fsphil> I think they swap hair next series
[09:34] <Darkside> haha
[09:34] <Darkside> yes :D
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[10:18] <Dutch-Mill> Hi Upu nice car ;-)
[10:21] Nick change: SamSIlver_ -> SamSilver
[10:22] <fsphil> oh yea, howest is going again today
[10:22] <fsphil> with their boat
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[10:29] <costyn> fsphil: big boat :)
[10:29] <costyn> Dutch-Mill: so hi again ; do you live in Holland too?
[10:29] <Dutch-Mill> where is the nice chase_boat icon...;-)
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[10:30] <Dutch-Mill> Ja zeker
[10:30] <costyn> Dutch-Mill: have you launched/are you planning to launch?
[10:31] <costyn> and yes I agree they need a chase boat on the tracker
[10:31] <Dutch-Mill> No just a HABfan....
[10:32] <costyn> ah ok; do you have HAM experience?
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[10:33] <Dutch-Mill> No ... I dit build a tracker GPS -> Arduino -> NTX2 for the hobby
[10:34] <costyn> ah ok cool... I'm still looking for someone to help out with tracking eventually; i have very little radio experience
[10:35] <Dutch-Mill> You can have (use) it if you want.... just add a balloon, helium.... and nice weather ;-)
[10:35] <costyn> :)
[10:35] <UpuWork> hey Dutch-Mill on the tracker ? Was testing the iPhone app still worked
[10:35] <costyn> well I just got the GPS and arduino in the mail yesterday and the NTX should be arriving any moment :)
[10:36] <UpuWork> costyn http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/813/img0241hj.jpg/
[10:36] <Dutch-Mill> ... lets start te fun...
[10:36] <costyn> UpuWork: I think you should order more NTX2's; you clearly don't have enough
[10:36] <costyn> :P
[10:37] <UpuWork> for the conference
[10:37] <UpuWork> they will be raffled off at the end
[10:37] <costyn> ah
[10:37] <costyn> sweet
[10:37] <Dutch-Mill> Upu i'm at work too, cant track HWEST today (((
[10:38] <UpuWork> I have remote access to my gear so I can track it when it goes up
[10:39] <Dutch-Mill> Last time i got the strongest signal ever but my laptop went gaga...
[10:39] <costyn> Dutch-Mill: wait... I thought you diddn't have any tracking experience? :) And yet I see a nice 817 on the tracker in 's Gravenzande :)
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[10:41] <Dutch-Mill> Costyn : Yes thats the only HAB thing I do at the moment, but my time is limited at the moment ( the comming weeks)
[10:41] <UpuWork> this weekend is likely to be busy
[10:41] <costyn> Dutch-Mill: ah ok... but; would you be willing to help out in the future (some months from now) when I and my team mates launch?
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[10:41] <Dutch-Mill> Waar zit / woon je ?
[10:42] <costyn> Dutch-Mill: Rijswijk
[10:42] <Dutch-Mill> om de hoek dus ;-)
[10:42] <costyn> So... shouting distance
[10:42] <costyn> :)
[10:43] <Dutch-Mill> Tim zit in Delft (TU) http://www.timzaman.nl/
[10:43] <costyn> Dutch-Mill: yes; ook dichtbij
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[10:44] <costyn> Dutch-Mill: hij is alleen niet zo vaak hier op IRC geloof ik
[10:44] <Dutch-Mill> Ja wel
[10:45] <Dutch-Mill> mocht je hulp nodig hebben laat het dan even weten via de ukhas maillijst
[10:45] <costyn> Dutch-Mill: ok thx!
[10:45] <Darkside> ja ja eist can spreken de nederlander?
[10:46] <Dutch-Mill> @upu sorry for the Dutch session but HAB starts growing here ;-)
[10:46] <Darkside> (sorry)
[10:46] <UpuWork> no problems
[10:46] <costyn> Dutch-Mill: that's the idea yes; we can't let Tim get all the fame and fortune and chicks
[10:46] <Dutch-Mill> ...well nice "google dutch' ;-)
[10:47] <Dutch-Mill> I'm not so sure aout the chicks..
[10:47] <Dutch-Mill> about
[10:48] <costyn> hehe
[10:49] Action: costyn is going back to his DWDM task... be back later
[10:49] <Dutch-Mill> But seriously Tim's doing a great job
[10:51] <Dutch-Mill> Upu : must go now... good luck
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[11:01] <SamSilver> ek is gereed vir praat
[11:02] <SamSilver> maar ek praat afrikaans
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[11:13] <costyn> SamSilver: ek kan dat wel verstaan :)
[11:15] <SamSilver> goed so
[11:15] <SamSilver> en ek kan jou ook verstaan
[11:15] <costyn> hah nice :)
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[11:25] <costyn> howest chase car is at the airport
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[11:31] <Laurenceb> wow how long has horus been in the air?
[11:31] <SamSilver> Op juller merke, greed, gaan
[11:31] <SamSilver> Laurenceb: nope I think someone is running a test
[11:32] <Laurenceb> oh
[11:32] <SamSilver> I think darkside might be high on solder and flux fumes though
[11:32] <Laurenceb> i see
[11:33] <Laurenceb> launching from the air port?
[11:33] <SamSilver> and landing in da see
[11:35] <SamSilver> They are going to have a chase boat at the ready
[11:39] <Laurenceb> heh
[11:40] <Laurenceb> what time is launch?
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[11:41] <costyn> Laurenceb: 10 minutes ago :)
[11:41] <SamSilver> ISH time + #hours
[11:42] <costyn> wonder why they have a chase car if they already know it's going to be splashing down
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[11:48] <costyn> ah we have a balloon on the tracker
[11:49] <costyn> wonder if the chase car is a Delorean, cause it's sending timestamps from the future :P
[11:50] <fsphil> neat, normally it's in the 1980's
[11:53] <UpuWork> oh we have a HOWEST
[11:59] <Laurenceb> off
[11:59] <Laurenceb> its launched
[12:01] <costyn> interesting, seems something weird with the telemetry
[12:01] <costyn> real altitude = max altitude
[12:01] <Laurenceb> no opdates :S
[12:02] <costyn> Laurenceb: except for max altitude
[12:02] <SpeedEvil> I suspect the syntax has been screwed smehow
[12:03] <costyn> weird.. it seemed to be working when it was on the ground
[12:03] <SpeedEvil> {"position_id": "343287","vehicle": "HOWEST","server_time": "2011-09-29 12:02:04","gps_time": "2011-09-29 12:01:51","gps_lat": "50.82965","gps_lon": "3.21444","gps_alt": "1090","gps_heading": "","gps_speed": "","picture": "","temp_inside": "","data": "{}","callsign": "HOWEST","sequence": "36" },
[12:03] <Laurenceb> looks a bit dead
[12:03] <Laurenceb> oh
[12:03] <SpeedEvil> http://spacenear.us/tracker/data.php
[12:04] <Laurenceb> tracker died?
[12:04] <SpeedEvil> So, tracker is confused.
[12:05] <costyn> now unconfused :)
[12:05] <GW8RAK> Refreshed tracker and seems okay now
[12:06] <nosebleedKT> hi all
[12:06] <SpeedEvil> jo
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[12:08] <SpeedEvil> I note that they're using the HAAS base-station at 0,0, with the 400km antenna again.
[12:09] <costyn> it's making a bee-line for the sea :)
[12:10] <SpeedEvil> Where is this one supposed to land?
[12:10] <costyn> SpeedEvil: the north sea
[12:10] <SpeedEvil> I'm betting on the pacific.
[12:10] Action: Laurenceb just realised Dutch-Mill is on a mill
[12:10] <Laurenceb> nice
[12:11] <costyn> SpeedEvil: http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=b5ab1e25c586a68ad7146e2af75e10c88d0d9172
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[12:12] <Darkside> jeez thats a fast ascent rate
[12:12] <UpuWork> best way none of this mincing about trying to get alititude records
[12:13] <Darkside> lol
[12:13] <Darkside> and screwing it up :P
[12:13] <UpuWork> yeah :)
[12:13] <Darkside> and having the balloon land on the other side of the country..
[12:13] <UpuWork> anyone got a dial frequency yet ?
[12:13] <costyn> Darkside: or not setting the gps in airplane mode :P
[12:14] <Laurenceb> Darkside: you mean in the ocean the other side of the country
[12:15] <Darkside> yes...
[12:15] <Darkside> :(
[12:15] <junderwood> dial freq is 434648.71
[12:15] Nick change: junderwood -> junderwood_M0JCU
[12:15] <UpuWork> thx
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[12:16] <UpuWork> nothing on mine so far
[12:16] <junderwood_M0JCU> just got it here on yagi
[12:17] <fsphil> yagi's are great
[12:17] <fsphil> still don't understand why they work
[12:17] <UpuWork> its magic
[12:17] <fsphil> indeed
[12:17] <fsphil> putting a metal bar in front of the antenna.. that should block the signal, not make it stronger :)
[12:18] <daveake> Work of the devil, antennas
[12:19] <UpuWork> http://www.ehow.com/how-does_5022623_yagi-antenna-work.html
[12:22] <WillDuckworth> hey fsphil, your SSDV stuff, what's the advantages over the SSTV for us HABers?
[12:22] <WillDuckworth> or they about the same?
[12:23] <Laurenceb> http://blog.zorinaq.com/?e=58
[12:25] <UpuWork> ok I see it
[12:25] <SpeedEvil> WillDuckworth: It can be recieved automatically, and relayed to a server
[12:25] <SpeedEvil> WillDuckworth: Inside fldigi
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[12:28] <fsphil> WillDuckworth, it's not as fast as sstv but the image quality is a good bit better.
[12:28] <SpeedEvil> Also, the bandwidth is smaller
[12:28] <UpuWork> 434.649.440
[12:29] <UpuWork> very faint no decodes
[12:29] <fsphil> also the data from multiple stations can all be combined online so the final image will be more complete
[12:29] <WillDuckworth> cool, i suppose multiple listeners can append to missing bits
[12:29] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: you were doing what - 300 baud?
[12:29] <fsphil> that really helped on my last flight
[12:29] <Laurenceb> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=2dbecefd22fa840840f046f214987c732fb6b39f
[12:29] <fsphil> SpeedEvil, yea. Tim's did it at 600 and 1200 baud though, and it seemed to work well
[12:29] <WillDuckworth> is that on a gumstix type board?
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[12:29] <SpeedEvil> The lower the baudrate, the lower the channel noise.
[12:30] <fsphil> Tim used a beagleboard, though I just used a plain AVR chip
[12:30] <fsphil> ssdv is also a bit simpler I think
[12:30] <SpeedEvil> 300 baud can in principle live with moderate interferers outside a 1khz band
[12:30] <UpuWork> 4$HOWEST9²:3`r¢
[12:30] <WillDuckworth> cool, so is hadie going up again soon?
[12:31] <fsphil> soon as UpuWork stops beating up DM :)
[12:31] <SpeedEvil> I suppose the launch permissions diddn't allow you to drive 40 miles southeast?
[12:32] <UpuWork> Got it
[12:32] <UpuWork> distance 447.9 km :)
[12:32] <fsphil> got a string UpuWork?
[12:32] <fsphil> wow
[12:32] <UpuWork> I have
[12:32] <costyn> impressive
[12:32] <UpuWork> not quite the record
[12:32] <WillDuckworth> good distance on that
[12:33] <fsphil> SpeedEvil, PSK would be better than FSK would it? bandwidth wise? or about the same
[12:33] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: PSK is a bit better, yes.
[12:33] <SpeedEvil> You drop to ~600Hz I think
[12:34] <SpeedEvil> actually - rtty is going to be a little more than 1khz
[12:34] <Laurenceb> over the horizon#
[12:34] <fsphil> I did a little experiment doing rtty over psk instead of fsk, though I have nothing that can decode it
[12:34] <Laurenceb> impressive
[12:35] <fsphil> what's the dial now?
[12:35] <Laurenceb> fsphil: what hardware?
[12:35] <UpuWork> 434.649.940
[12:35] <Laurenceb> to tx psk
[12:35] <fsphil> just software Laurenceb, made a wav file
[12:35] <UpuWork> The antenna is about 300 m ASL Laurenceb on my setup
[12:35] <UpuWork> which helps
[12:36] <Laurenceb> fsphil: you need a costas loop
[12:36] <Laurenceb> google it
[12:36] <UpuWork> nice steady decodes now
[12:37] <Laurenceb> crazy
[12:37] <Laurenceb> what ant do you have?
[12:37] <UpuWork> Watson WD-50 just a co-linear
[12:37] <Laurenceb> i guess its deffracting over the hills and stuff
[12:38] <fsphil> I'm convinced the weather has a part to play in the signal strength
[12:38] <Laurenceb> i prefer the WD40
[12:38] <UpuWork> no I have pretty much LoS down the hill
[12:38] <Laurenceb> accept its over the horizon O_o
[12:38] <UpuWork> I get reception over the horizon every time though
[12:38] <fsphil> the horizon circle isn't very accurate
[12:38] <UpuWork> unless its fsphil in which case I can't hear it all atll
[12:39] <fsphil> haha
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[12:40] <fsphil> got the rig on, not expecting much
[12:40] <fsphil> although it's heading this way
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[12:50] <UpuWork> uyh lost it
[12:50] <UpuWork> 434.651.440
[12:50] <fsphil> seems to happen that, it'll come back
[12:52] <fsphil> nothing on my waterfall yet
[12:52] <UpuWork> No I was just outside checking damage to company van, someone just went into the back of my engineer whilst he was sat at some lights
[12:52] <UpuWork> it had wandered up the dial
[12:52] <fsphil> aack
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[12:56] <UpuWork> 390 shift
[12:56] <UpuWork> 434.651.440
[12:56] <WillDuckworth> it's going to go wet soon, did they say they were having a boat out there waiting?
[12:56] <fsphil> it just flew over the road we used to get to holland
[12:57] <fsphil> yea, they've a huge boat
[12:57] <costyn> WillDuckworth: http://images.vliz.be/resized/16128_r-v-zeeleeuw.jpg
[12:57] <daveake> Most expensive chase ever?
[12:58] <YaNo_> hi, simple question :-) what is helium pressure inside of let's say 1000gram weather balloon in 0km and 30km? i am thinking about using solenoid valve to release some pressure in 30km to stay longer there by aviding balloon to burst. after some time microcontroller would empy the balloon completly to allow it to drop back. for that i need pressures of helium - so i can consider proper solenoid valve...
[12:58] <SpeedEvil> That is a large boat.
[12:58] <SpeedEvil> YaNo_: It's within a couple of millibars of atmospheric
[12:58] <fsphil> did a nice little loop there
[12:58] <SpeedEvil> YaNo_: Also - you have to consider the extreme low density.
[12:58] <SpeedEvil> YaNo_: This means very low flow rates for a given apature.
[12:59] <costyn> SpeedEvil: the pressure difference is tiny you mean?
[12:59] <SpeedEvil> yes
[12:59] <YaNo_> I know air density, question is pressure inside of balloon
[12:59] <SpeedEvil> At most 2mB over atmospheric pressure.
[12:59] <SpeedEvil> At all altitudes
[13:00] <SpeedEvil> (near burst)
[13:00] <fsphil> another little loop
[13:01] <UpuWork> doesn't want to go out to sea
[13:01] <YaNo_> mB is mili bar?
[13:01] <SpeedEvil> YaNo_: yes
[13:01] <UpuWork> "don't make meeee!"
[13:01] <UpuWork> "its england over there..."
[13:01] <costyn> UpuWork: :)
[13:01] <SpeedEvil> YaNo_: Don't forget down to -50C too
[13:01] <YaNo_> well, does not make sense to me, that's air pressure outside of balloon right?
[13:02] <YaNo_> not helium pressure inside of balloon
[13:02] <SpeedEvil> YaNo_: The pressure inside is a little higher than the pressure outside.
[13:02] <SpeedEvil> YaNo_: By a few milibars.
[13:02] <SpeedEvil> Because the helium inside is being squeezed by the balloon envelope
[13:02] <YaNo_> yeah, temperature is another problem
[13:02] <YaNo_> but in theory - this might work, right?
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[13:02] <SpeedEvil> In principle - sure.
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[13:03] <SpeedEvil> However, balloons have recently been found to have a significant burst pressure.
[13:03] <SamSilver> YaNo_: the theory is all good the bugger is in the details
[13:03] <SpeedEvil> So the internal pressure can in some cases raise the density enough to make it float all on its lonesome.
[13:03] <SamSilver> like -50 deg c
[13:04] <SpeedEvil> Darkside found that out.
[13:04] <SpeedEvil> His balloon recently floated all the way across australia.
[13:04] <SamSilver> materials get brittle
[13:04] <SpeedEvil> When it was supposed to burst after it hit 30km or so
[13:04] <YaNo_> what was the balloon manufacturer? ;-)
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[13:05] <SpeedEvil> Was it howyee?
[13:05] Action: SpeedEvil can't remember the spelling.
[13:05] <SpeedEvil> In general.
[13:05] <UpuWork> that is going round in cricles
[13:06] <SamSilver> UpuWork: like a whilrpool in the sky
[13:06] Nick change: Gillerire_ -> Gillerire
[13:06] <SamSilver> wait till he hits the brine
[13:06] <SpeedEvil> If the balloon burst pressure (this is not specified) is enough to constrain the gas inside that the free lift of the balloon + payload is overcome due to the increasing density, you get float
[13:07] <YaNo_> ok, if this is possible, then my balloon with valve could reach neutral Buoyancy by releasing some helium pressure and stay there for weeks :-)
[13:07] <SpeedEvil> No.
[13:08] <SpeedEvil> The balloon envelope is very UV sensitive
[13:08] <SpeedEvil> And there is a lot of UV up there
[13:08] <SamSilver> YaNo_: there was a case where a balloon stayed up for 27 days with no control
[13:08] <SpeedEvil> A day is probably pushing it for latex
[13:08] <SpeedEvil> SamSilver: latex?
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[13:08] <SamSilver> nope
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[13:08] <SamSilver> Dan-K2VOL: hi
[13:09] <SpeedEvil> yeah - for UV stabler stuff possibly
[13:09] <YaNo_> LOL - maybe i can use some UV factor cream for humans :D
[13:09] <Dan-K2VOL> Hi Dave
[13:09] <SpeedEvil> YaNo_: Most will attack rubber
[13:09] <Dan-K2VOL> Yeah no
[13:09] <Dan-K2VOL> :-P
[13:09] <SamSilver> Dan-K2VOL: i am trying to find the example of the ZP that stayed air borne for 27 days
[13:10] <SamSilver> I think it is on other PC
[13:10] <YaNo_> OK so my reusable balloon dream comes to it's end soon, but one day is still a lot of time and much more that a few seconds without valve... most baloons climb to 33km or so and burst
[13:10] <Dan-K2VOL> SamSilver like the small ones, or the current ones that NASA flies in the antarctic?
[13:10] <SamSilver> it was an unintentional
[13:10] <YaNo_> SamSilver that would be nice
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[13:11] <SamSilver> it was cut away from payload was in 1965 ish
[13:12] <costyn> looks like they're not gonna need the boat, well maybe after burst it'll float towards the ocean
[13:12] <YaNo_> have any idea about some valve type that can safely open in -50degrees? operated by DC 12V or so?
[13:12] <SpeedEvil> YaNo_: A servo may work
[13:12] <SamSilver> Dan-K2VOL: it was about UFO mistaken identiy
[13:12] <Dan-K2VOL> YaNo, I have one
[13:12] <SpeedEvil> And a DIY valve
[13:13] <YaNo_> Dan - can you send me the link?
[13:13] <Dan-K2VOL> oh SamSilver, there are many balloon flights that have been mistaken for UFOs!
[13:13] <Dan-K2VOL> pneuaire.com has a plastic 12v solenoid valve
[13:13] <Dan-K2VOL> that's been tested on long duration ballon flights
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[13:13] <Dan-K2VOL> it's only got a 0.6mm diameter opening
[13:13] <Dan-K2VOL> but it works for air or liquid
[13:14] <SpeedEvil> The apature needs to be large
[13:14] <SpeedEvil> A 0.6mm valve will do _nothing_ to stop a balloon rising
[13:14] <daveake> I'm hoping my payload will be mistaken for a UFO :)
[13:14] <Dan-K2VOL> however you must toggle it every 30 minutes to prevent seizing up
[13:14] <YaNo_> SpeedEvil - nice idea, I am fan of DIY, but in this case i would rather trust to some commercial valve :)
[13:14] <Dan-K2VOL> haha oh I didn't know the application
[13:14] <SpeedEvil> If it's got a 10m diameter, you have 60m^3 of gas.
[13:14] <Dan-K2VOL> YaNo_ you won't find a commercial valve
[13:15] <Dan-K2VOL> we're replicating the japanese paper balloon style valves for this winter's White Star SpeedBall transatlantic flights
[13:15] <SpeedEvil> You need to dump 10m^3 of gas or so, at a rate of 10l/s or so
[13:15] <SpeedEvil> With a differntial pressure of 2mB or so
[13:15] <SpeedEvil> This is a large orifice
[13:15] <Dan-K2VOL> ours will have a diameter of 20cm
[13:15] <SpeedEvil> Way larger than 0.6mm
[13:15] <Laurenceb> thats what she said
[13:16] <YaNo_> 20cm diameter valve? isn't that huge?
[13:16] <SpeedEvil> 20cm is way bigger than you'd need for a latex balloon thoug
[13:16] <Dan-K2VOL> Here's a link to a long US Navy analyisis video about how the japanese WWII paper balloons worked: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=archive.org%20japanese%20paper%20balloons&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CEoQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.archive.org%2Fdetails%2Fgov.archives.arc.13084&ei=mG-ETpHoAse1twfqpv0s&usg=AFQjCNHLX4jV-KuLWSNo32w4tm5Pj0loAw
[13:16] <Dan-K2VOL> It examines the vent in detail
[13:17] <Dan-K2VOL> I recommend it to anyone interestedin ballooning
[13:17] <Dan-K2VOL> it tells you what to do if you spot them flying :-P
[13:17] <Dan-K2VOL> and even how to de-fuse the explosives if you find them intact on the ground
[13:18] <SamSilver> this is topical http://xkcd.com/1/
[13:19] <YaNo_> wow, i had no idea about those war paper balloons :)
[13:19] <SpeedEvil> Ok.
[13:19] <SpeedEvil> http://www.lenoxlaser.com/index.php?dispatch=pages.view&page_id=43
[13:20] <SpeedEvil> This says to dump 10l/s with an inlet of 0.012 bar, an outlet of 0.01 bar, and helium, you need an orifice of around 2 inches
[13:20] <costyn> lol "The Leader in Small Hole Technology" a dirty mind is a joy forever
[13:20] <UpuWork> strong sea breeze pushing HOWEST back in land ?
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[13:20] <costyn> UpuWork: maybe, the habhub prdiction said it'd fly south for a bit
[13:21] <SpeedEvil> That is larger than I would have guessed
[13:21] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[13:21] <Laurenceb> http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=f65762cc9995ce1fc7a90aa799436d8f&topic=14392.525
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[13:22] <YaNo_> 2 inch = 5.08 centimeters, that's also big valve :-)
[13:23] <Dan-K2VOL> here's a paper from 1947 about the balloons that caused the Roswell, New Mexico UFO incident: http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/abs/10.1175/1520-0469%281948%29005%3C0130%3ACAFB%3E2.0.CO%3B2
[13:23] <fsphil> huh, it's still over land?
[13:23] <Laurenceb> no
[13:23] <Laurenceb> that was aliens
[13:24] <fsphil> this may be the first ever flight where we've wanted it to land in the sea
[13:25] <daveake> Yes, does make a change :)
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[13:26] <Dan-K2VOL> how come the sea is the target?
[13:26] <UpuWork> prediction indicated it was going to dunk in the channel
[13:27] <costyn> prediction is pretty accurate.. it isn't after burst that it will head towards the sea again apparently
[13:27] <Dan-K2VOL> oh but it's not intended to become an ocean buoy
[13:27] <fsphil> the howest team have arranged a large boat to help recover it
[13:28] <fsphil> the dial changed UpuWork?
[13:28] <UpuWork> yep
[13:28] <UpuWork> 434.652.440 390 shift
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[13:28] <UpuWork> probably closer to 380 shift tbh
[13:28] <gb73d> heard abiouyt a luanch from manchster on sat
[13:28] <gb73d> saturday
[13:29] <gb73d> or somewhere up north
[13:29] <UpuWork> hmm
[13:29] <UpuWork> do we know who it is ?
[13:29] <UpuWork> and more importantly what frequency they are using
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[13:29] <gb73d> Heath Park
[13:30] <gb73d> 1100
[13:30] <UpuWork> 1100 ?
[13:30] Nick change: sofii-chan -> spacekitteh
[13:31] <Dan-K2VOL> ah and the howest team is standing by on the dock I bet
[13:32] <UpuWork> looks that way
[13:32] <UpuWork> they can't go any further north :)
[13:32] <junderwood_M0JCU> looks like M0DTS has the range record
[13:32] <daveake> Shame the boat isn't on the map
[13:32] <UpuWork> that would be epic
[13:32] <junderwood_M0JCU> Does the car change into a boat when it leaves the coast?
[13:33] <UpuWork> lol
[13:33] <daveake> lol
[13:33] <daveake> That's some logic that definitely needs adding :)
[13:33] <costyn> agreed
[13:33] <BrainDamage> well, not necessarily
[13:33] <Dan-K2VOL> haha
[13:33] <BrainDamage> they could be chasing the balloon too fast
[13:33] <BrainDamage> and no road barriers
[13:34] <SamSilver> http://www.balloonhq.com/faq/science.html
[13:34] <daveake> In which case they'd appear as a boat, for a few seconds ...
[13:34] <gb73d> i heard abiout a balloon w camera to be launched saturady 8th oct 1100 from Heath Park somehere up north
[13:34] <gb73d> at the RMetS local meet last nigt
[13:34] <daveake> Hope it's not on 434.65 'cos that's my next launch date
[13:35] <gb73d> also found the notams for the SPICE tethered ballon experiments in Oct
[13:35] <UpuWork> we could do with getting some contact details for them
[13:35] <gb73d> its at sculthorpe
[13:35] <UpuWork> any more details and/or web pages ?
[13:35] <Rob_M0DTS> peaking 15db/n here.. not bad for 470km!
[13:35] <gb73d> 1 nm exclusion area
[13:35] <Dan-K2VOL> Might want to start incorporating random timing offsets for the 434 balloon transmitters
[13:35] <daveake> 1nm?
[13:36] <Dan-K2VOL> gb73d that's really tiny
[13:36] <Dan-K2VOL> is it a light balloon?
[13:36] <x-f> burst!
[13:36] <costyn> going down fast :)
[13:36] <daveake> Still heading inland. Guess it will turn soon
[13:37] <Dan-K2VOL> should head back to sea starting around 14km alt
[13:37] <daveake> ta
[13:37] <gb73d> http://www.orbifly.com/member/metmap.php?mode=notams&region_choose=EUR&lang=ENG&icao_choose=EGYM
[13:37] <gb73d> SPICE NOTAM page
[13:38] <gb73d> cant find anyhthing about the other balloon atm
[13:38] <daveake> Tethered. 1nm = 1 Nautical Mile, I just realised :)
[13:41] <Laurenceb> thats the spray thing?
[13:41] <Laurenceb> its just using an pressure washer right?
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[13:44] <SamSilver> I FOUND IT - YaNo_ For example, a 1,000,000 cu. ft. balloon, launched in France came down in Montana in August 1966, after having remained aloft for 27 days. This balloon had been traveling at 60,000 to 100,000 ft.
[13:44] <daveake> Ah, that thing. Yeah, Karcher + thin hose + big balloon I think
[13:44] <SamSilver> http://files.ncas.org/condon/text/s6chap08.htm
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[13:47] <SamSilver> looks like HOWEST is heading NW
[13:49] <daveake> It seems a bit indecisive
[13:49] <costyn> heading back into the doldrums?
[13:49] <Dan-K2VOL> should start heading back to sea with speed in a minute
[13:50] <daveake> Think it just has
[13:50] <Dan-K2VOL> no speed reporting on this one, bummer
[13:51] <Laurenceb> once it gets below ~15Km
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[13:51] <gb73d> cul
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[13:52] <Dan-K2VOL> there she goes
[13:52] <daveake> Where's de boot?
[13:52] <Dan-K2VOL> are those dotted lines in teh water shipping routes?
[13:52] <SpeedEvil> yes
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[13:53] <Dan-K2VOL> interesting
[13:53] <Dan-K2VOL> the only shipping routes around here are quite close to the shore
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[13:53] <Dan-K2VOL> s of the Ohio river :-P
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[13:54] <Dan-K2VOL> interesting to see weekday balloon flights
[13:55] <SamSilver> NNW now
[13:55] <fsphil> it's been a busy few weeks for launches
[13:55] <costyn> daveake: dunno where the boat is now, but it left Oostende, where the chase car is now, so probably aroudn that area, or hanging around the predicted landing spot
[13:56] <costyn> When we launch from the international airport Kortrijk-Wevelgem around
[13:56] <costyn> 13.00 (GMT+2), we will inform the crew on the vessel with the
[13:56] <costyn> predicted landing spot. They will go to the predicted landing spot.
[13:57] <daveake> Got my order in for my He cylinder, for collection next week. Still no AP cylinders available only BOC
[13:57] <Dan-K2VOL> look at that, the flight path is indeed a mirror of the curve by oudenburg
[14:06] <Laurenceb> so they are on a boat?
[14:06] <costyn> Laurenceb: the boat is already at sea
[14:06] <daveake> One of the team is on a large boat
[14:07] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7yfISlGLNU
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[14:07] <Dan-K2VOL> do they have a delorean for a chase car?
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[14:08] <Dan-K2VOL> cause chase car is traveling through time rather rapidly
[14:09] <costyn> Dan-K2VOL: heh interesting
[14:10] <UpuWork> lost it at 10k
[14:10] <UpuWork> well can still see it
[14:10] <UpuWork> but its very faint
[14:10] <UpuWork> not decodable
[14:11] <fsphil> I'm sure you broke a few laws of physics today ;)
[14:11] <UpuWork> I break them all the time
[14:13] <daveake> The chase car is breaking one too :)
[14:13] <daveake> One up on those neutrinos
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[14:18] <fsphil> lol
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[14:21] <costyn> man it's heading out to sea fast
[14:22] <Upu> should be no issues with reception unless a ferry gets in the way
[14:29] <Laurenceb> ah it unpopped
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[14:31] <Dan-K2VOL> haha
[14:32] <Dan-K2VOL> those crazy hwyoeeou balloons!
[14:33] <costyn> Dan-K2VOL: lol
[14:33] <costyn> wonder how far the boat is willing to go to pick it up
[14:34] Action: costyn is going to stand in traffic for a bit... ttyl
[14:35] <SamSilver> http://aprs.fi/?addr=zeebrugge&mt=roadmap&z=11&timerange=3600
[14:37] <Laurenceb> long boat trip
[14:37] Nick change: junderwood_M0JCU -> junderwood
[14:37] <Laurenceb> 15 miles each way
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[14:39] <Laurenceb> make that 20/25
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[14:40] <Laurenceb> wow over the horizon copy again
[14:41] <Dan-K2VOL> too bad dutch mill isn't working
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[14:48] <fsphil> good bit of tracking today
[14:54] <SpeedEvil> http://www.gizmag.com/largest-solar-sail-to-be-demonstrated/19985/
[14:54] <SpeedEvil> Now this is the sort of stuff NASA should be doing
[14:54] <Laurenceb> erm how do the boat know where to go?
[14:55] <Laurenceb> oh nvm
[14:55] <Laurenceb> they have their own rx XD
[14:55] <Laurenceb> durrrr
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[14:57] <Laurenceb> i wonder if groundstation is on the car?
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[14:59] <daveake> Any news from the boat?
[15:00] <SamSilver> like if he is for hire daveake ?
[15:00] <SamSilver> :p
[15:00] <daveake> LOL
[15:00] <Dan-K2VOL> Like who is seasick
[15:00] <Laurenceb> if thats right they are getting it over the horizon
[15:01] <Laurenceb> thats insane
[15:03] <fsphil> someone else breaking the laws of physics?
[15:03] <SamSilver> might be witha 48 element Yagi quad aray doing moon-bounce
[15:03] <fsphil> bah, you let a few neutrinos go slightly faster and everything starts breaking
[15:04] <Laurenceb> crazy rx performance
[15:04] <Laurenceb> looks like its down now
[15:04] <SamSilver> fsphil: heaven forbid they mutate
[15:04] <daveake> Stupid neutrinos
[15:05] <fsphil> they could be tracking from the boat
[15:05] <Laurenceb> no way to upload
[15:06] <Laurenceb> looks like 30 miles offshore
[15:06] <griffonbot> Received email: Peter "[UKHAS] Re: 2nd Launch Howest Tomorrow"
[15:06] <daveake> So much for Scotty proclaiming "Ya canna change the laws of physics!"
[15:06] <x-f> Peter: "The vessel spotted the payload!"
[15:07] <daveake> :D
[15:07] <SpeedEvil> :)
[15:07] <Laurenceb> nice
[15:07] <griffonbot> Received email: Peter "[UKHAS] Re: 2nd Launch Howest Tomorrow"
[15:07] <daveake> When they say "the" payload, are they sure it's theirs....? :p
[15:09] <SpeedEvil> :)
[15:12] <UpuWork> keep hoping Dave
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[15:12] <griffonbot> Received email: Peter "[UKHAS] Re: 2nd Launch Howest Tomorrow"
[15:13] <UpuWork> http://g.co/maps/k3k4t
[15:13] <UpuWork> about 2km from last recorded position
[15:15] <fsphil> unreal
[15:15] <daveake> UpuWork Exactly :)
[15:15] <x-f> they did it
[15:15] <daveake> Epic
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[15:16] <fsphil> total annihilation
[15:16] <Darkside> omfg
[15:16] <Darkside> thats epic
[15:16] <Darkside> absolutely amazing job
[15:17] <UpuWork> wow
[15:17] <UpuWork> flawless victory
[15:18] <daveake> In your face, Neptune :)
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[15:18] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] Re: 2nd Launch Howest Tomorrow"
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[15:20] <WillDuckworth> they've done well there
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[15:27] <SamSilver> smea guess what happened ?
[15:27] <SamSilver> They found the payload in the sea
[15:29] <W0OTM> Looks like RFI caused the AutoPilot to fail... http://www.ihabproject.com/BallooMerang/BM-1/TestFlight-2/APRSTransmissions.jpg
[15:30] <W0OTM> (RFI from the 2 meter transmitter)
[15:30] <SamSilver> Aah bugger
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[15:31] <SamSilver> W0OTM: I see a balloon logo as well
[15:32] <W0OTM> SamSilver: ??
[15:32] <SamSilver> WoOTH-4
[15:32] <SamSilver> in the pic of crash site I see a logo of a balloon
[15:33] <Laurenceb> whats that
[15:33] <SamSilver> did you drop from a tethered balloon
[15:33] <Laurenceb> automated return to base?
[15:33] <Laurenceb> what airframe?
[15:35] <SamSilver> logo + APRS symbol
[15:35] <Laurenceb> ooh i see
[15:35] <Laurenceb> conventional glider
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[15:37] <WillDuckworth> smea 's back
[15:37] <daveake> Found at smea
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[15:39] <UpuWork> see where you went wrong daveake was you didn't have a research vessel to hand
[15:39] <daveake> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXKlC8ph7mM
[15:39] <daveake> Exactly. I was fresh out.
[15:39] <Laurenceb> W0OTM: http://ukhas.org.uk/_media/projects:imgp0191.jpg
[15:40] <Laurenceb> thats my hardware from a while back
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[15:41] <W0OTM> Laurenceb: did you experience RFI with the servo?
[15:41] <Laurenceb> no, but i only used 10mw
[15:41] <Laurenceb> that fits on the bottom of a rogallo
[15:41] <Laurenceb> radio isnt installed there
[15:41] <Laurenceb> it worked nicely in tests
[15:43] <Laurenceb> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7102390356456733483
[15:44] <SamSilver> the advantages and diadvantages of dead bug building?
[15:45] <SamSilver> not rf
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[15:45] <SamSilver> smea have you built anything deadbug style
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[15:45] <Laurenceb> heh i wouldnt try building something l;ike that again
[15:45] <Darkside> SamSilver: advantage: small
[15:46] <Darkside> disadvangage: oh god WHY WOULD YOU DO IT
[15:46] <Darkside> so horribly painful
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[15:46] <Darkside> seriously, the space savings aren't worth the pain
[15:46] <Darkside> plus it's be less robust than something done on a PCB
[15:46] <Darkside> or hell, even on a veroboard for that matter
[15:46] <Darkside> and i need to sleep
[15:46] <Darkside> nn
[15:47] <SamSilver> 555 + 4017 + few reed relays all dead bugged and sealed in pottabile filler for thermal equlibrium
[15:47] <UpuWork> nn
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[15:53] <Dan-K2VOL> SamSilver, the advantage is that you don't have to push the legs through holes
[15:53] <SamSilver> thanx dan
[15:53] <Dan-K2VOL> The disadvantage is that now you have to add an additional adhesive to the parts to keep them down
[15:53] <Dan-K2VOL> and your wires will be more prone to break being up in the air, while you assemble things
[15:54] <SamSilver> I was hoping that I could seal them in epoxy and get some thermal advantage
[15:54] <Dan-K2VOL> and the wiring/schematic will be hard to implement and later understand
[15:54] <SamSilver> in Hadding enviroment
[15:54] <Dan-K2VOL> thermal advantage?
[15:54] <SamSilver> HABing
[15:54] <Dan-K2VOL> oh, just don't use relays
[15:55] <SamSilver> well keep each other toasty by thermal conduction through the epoxy
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[15:55] <Dan-K2VOL> I would recommend learning how to use FET transistors instead of relays
[15:55] <SamSilver> reed realys is exactily what I wanted to keep toasty
[15:55] <Dan-K2VOL> or just buy some handy FET driver boards from a place like Sparkfun or Seeeedstudio
[15:56] <SamSilver> I am all ears
[15:56] <Dan-K2VOL> what are you wanting to trigger
[15:57] <SamSilver> camera, test equipment, experiments
[15:59] <SamSilver> hmmm fets are what I am told to use all the time
[16:01] <Laurenceb> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7102390356456733483#docid=-789604493499038554
[16:01] <Dan-K2VOL> ok, here's a great thing to start with, a board full of FET drivers, which are essentially one-way voltage digital relays: http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9627
[16:02] <SamSilver> the reed relays are rated to -40
[16:02] <Dan-K2VOL> ok, then use them
[16:02] <SamSilver> http://www.mantech.co.za/Datasheets/Products/EDRXXX.pdf
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[16:03] <Dan-K2VOL> however reducing the number of moving parts will improve reliability, power consumption and size
[16:03] <SamSilver> I will keep you updated of my tests
[16:03] <SamSilver> I bow to your wisdom, and thax for all your help
[16:03] <SamSilver> thanx
[16:03] <Dan-K2VOL> heh I do recommend learning fets eventually, good luck
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[16:07] <Newbz> Hello
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[16:10] <Newbz> How did the flight today go? I was tracking it online and saw it stopped at 117m was it?
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[16:14] <Newbz> Hello?
[16:15] <Dan-K2VOL> hi
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[16:19] <SamSilver> http://www.maushammer.com/systems/Watch/Build%20Log/D7FAABA4-6D00-4DAE-BAD2-65AE3EF1A718.html
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[16:22] <Newbz> Did anyone see the results of the flight today?
[16:22] <Newbz> I tracked it from launch to it's wet landing!
[16:22] <SamSilver> payload was found very quick in the sea
[16:22] <Newbz> Did they have a receiver to track it localy?
[16:24] <Newbz> It lost tracking at about 117m on the website
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[16:39] <fsphil> hiya Newbz
[16:39] <fsphil> the chase car had a receiver, but beyond that we don't know
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[16:39] <fsphil> there was a spot satellite locator on the flight and I think they used this to find it on the sea
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[16:44] <Newbz> cool
[16:44] <Newbz> I'm looking in to getting an Arduino Uno and playing about with that
[16:44] <Newbz> found a tutorial to use a gps and radio chip with that
[16:47] Nick change: SamSilver -> SamSilver_
[16:48] <fsphil> which radio chip?
[16:48] <fsphil> ooh brb, dinner :)
[16:48] <Newbz> So how do they get it on the spacenear tracker site?
[16:48] <Newbz> ok
[16:49] <Dan-K2VOL> newbz http://ukhas.org.uk/communication:protocol
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[16:50] <Dan-K2VOL> also http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
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[16:57] <jcoxon> evening all
[16:59] <SamSilver_> jcoxon: hi
[16:59] <SamSilver_> did you see the floater today?
[17:00] <SamSilver_> floated in the channel / north sea :p
[17:00] <jcoxon> hehe
[17:00] <jcoxon> i got the email
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[17:03] <SamSilver_> Hey jcoxon how about your ocean drifter carried on a foil flouter and the parachute in to the sea and the Dan-K2VOL has a damp activated cutdown so you can ditch the parrachute HUH??
[17:03] <SamSilver_> the = then
[17:03] <SamSilver_> x 2
[17:04] <jcoxon> hehe
[17:04] <SamSilver_> I see no problem as long as the neutrenos play along
[17:05] <Dan-K2VOL> heh
[17:07] <SamSilver_> right food time, well a bit of wine then food .... cheers ... AFK
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[17:13] <Newbz> back
[17:14] <Dan-K2VOL> newbz did u see my links
[17:14] <Newbz> yes I did, that's the one I was looking at :)
[17:14] <Newbz> the arduino one*
[17:14] <Dan-K2VOL> cool
[17:14] <Newbz> looking at the comms protocol one now
[17:15] <Newbz> thanks
[17:15] <Dan-K2VOL> yw
[17:15] <Dan-K2VOL> are you in Europe?
[17:16] <Newbz> UK :)
[17:16] <Dan-K2VOL> great, good place to be for lots of listeners
[17:16] <Newbz> Wish I was in Europe, less water near by then!
[17:17] <Newbz> I'm looking for a good month to launch, with the least possible wind, is there a website that can give me a good idea on historic data? Just so I know what timeline I have to work to.
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[17:29] <Newbz> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2#demo_code_to_transmit_rtty
[17:29] <Newbz> Can anyone recommend a GPS module to go with that tutorial?
[17:30] <jcoxon> Newbz, lassen IQ
[17:30] <jcoxon> or a fsa03 or GPSbee
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[17:31] <Newbz> Know any reputable suppliers?
[17:32] <jcoxon> http://www.dpie.com/gps/lasseniq.html
[17:34] <Newbz> OK thanks, £27.60 not bad
[17:34] <jcoxon> its got a small connector
[17:35] <Newbz> I found the Arduino Uno on Farnell for £19.50
[17:35] <jcoxon> but there is a cable you can get
[17:35] <Newbz> ok, thanks
[17:35] <Newbz> is there any benefits of any over the others?
[17:35] <Newbz> or are they just different makes?
[17:35] <jcoxon> it'll work out of the box
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[17:35] <jcoxon> its quite an old gps
[17:35] <jcoxon> the others are newer
[17:36] <jcoxon> but require some config
[17:37] <Newbz> So the GPS chip gets the location data, feeds to the Arduino that processes it and then uses the NTX2 to broadcast it?
[17:37] <jcoxon> yup
[17:37] <Newbz> Cool
[17:38] <Newbz> and would you recommend I have my own Radio to track it, or is it safe to rely on the other points on the map to track?
[17:38] <jonsowman> best to chase and track yourself if you want it back
[17:39] <Newbz> the radio is the most expensive bit as far as i can see!
[17:39] <Newbz> but i see how it could be useful in tracking it down
[17:39] <jonsowman> you may be able to get a cheaper one off ebay, or borrow one
[17:39] <jonsowman> are you a radio amateur?
[17:40] <Newbz> no :(
[17:40] <jonsowman> a local club may still be willing to lend you one
[17:41] <Newbz> I could always try to see if they are interested and would like to get involved
[17:41] <Newbz> or loan me one if they would be so kind :)
[17:41] <jonsowman> yep
[17:41] <jonsowman> you want one that can do AM SSB
[17:41] <jonsowman> the ft-790r and ft-817nd from yaesu are both popular
[17:42] <Newbz> *Fires up eBay*
[17:43] <Newbz> Oops, back soon, tea is ready!
[17:44] <jcoxon> so we've managed to get 12 ntx2 modules for hte conference
[17:44] <jcoxon> someone needs to invent a project for them!
[17:45] <jonsowman> jcoxon: OFDM!
[17:45] <Dan-K2VOL> nice jcoxon!
[17:45] <jonsowman> i assume they're all on the same frequency though
[17:45] <jcoxon> nope
[17:45] <jcoxon> 6 each
[17:46] <jonsowman> oh nice
[17:46] <Dan-K2VOL> also a funcube dongle should be able to work for you as well
[17:46] <Dan-K2VOL> newbz ^
[17:46] <jcoxon> Dan-K2VOL, to tell the truth with the funcube you need ham level filters etc
[17:46] <jcoxon> its not easy to really work with
[17:47] <jcoxon> jonsowman, i've also got a nrx2 as well
[17:47] <jonsowman> jcoxon: i've got a couple of those
[17:47] <jonsowman> been wondering what to do with them
[17:48] <jcoxon> repeater
[17:48] <jcoxon> my thinking is we make a repeater
[17:49] <jcoxon> 2 teams
[17:49] <jcoxon> set the challenge at the beginning of the day
[17:49] <jonsowman> cross band repeater?
[17:49] <jonsowman> sounds good
[17:49] <jcoxon> my nrx2 is 434.075 i think
[17:49] <jcoxon> so couple that with a ntx2 434.650
[17:49] <jonsowman> ah cool
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[17:53] <jcoxon> anyother ideas?
[17:54] <jonsowman> i'll have a think :)
[17:54] <jonsowman> nothing comes immediately to mind
[17:56] <eroomde> i think you'd get too much intermod
[17:56] <eroomde> between .075 and .650
[17:57] <jcoxon> might be worth the experiement
[17:57] <fsphil> I was hoping to get a receiver module for 144.something mhz because of that, but the only one is 144.800
[17:58] <EI5GTB> looks like an aprs channel...
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[17:58] <jonsowman> yeah 144.8 is aprs
[17:58] <fsphil> yep-- would've been annoying trying to do anything non-aprs on that
[17:58] <EI5GTB> yea
[17:59] <EI5GTB> especially at 20km
[17:59] <fsphil> a custom frequency was costing too much money, worked out cheaper to get an old walkie of ebay
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[18:12] <Upu> hi RocketBoy
[18:12] <Upu> here now
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[19:05] <griffonbot> Received email: "[UKHAS] Re: Bello Mondo-5 launch / 1st October"
[19:09] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Bello Mondo-5 launch / 1st October"
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[19:29] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Randall "[UKHAS] Flight Announcement - XABEN flight Saturday"
[19:30] <Upu> AVA on 434.075
[19:30] <Upu> Bello Mondo-5 on 434.525
[19:30] <Upu> XABEN on 434.650
[19:30] <Upu> need lots of trackers pls :)
[19:32] <costyn> woa... launch bonanza :)
[19:32] <Upu> I hope Habitat is up to it :)
[19:32] <costyn> wots habitat?
[19:32] <Upu> the tracker system
[19:32] <fsphil-laptop> the new hab overlord computer system
[19:32] <fsphil-laptop> all hail habitat
[19:32] <GW8RAK> Is that 3 launches in one day?
[19:33] <fsphil-laptop> at the very same time I think
[19:33] <Upu> yes and the important one is pink
[19:33] <daveake_> lol
[19:33] Nick change: daveake_ -> daveake
[19:33] <GW8RAK> Oh well, that'll keep me busy if I'm in. But probably going out on Saturday.
[19:33] <Upu> you're not allowed
[19:34] <daveake> Need a pink icon on spacenear
[19:34] <Upu> early launches I think
[19:34] <costyn> :)
[19:34] <GW8RAK> I'll pass the laptop over to the YL and you can discuss it with here Upu
[19:34] <GW8RAK> her, not here
[19:34] <daveake> I'm flying home tomorrow so I'll be around to help track
[19:34] <Upu> sure
[19:34] <Upu> put here
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[19:34] <Upu> put her on
[19:34] <Upu> :)
[19:34] <Upu> GW8RAK XYL now look here this is important I need Mr GW8RAK
[19:35] <GW8RAK> Oh no, now you've insulted her. She's a YL, not XYL. She likes the idea of being a young lady.
[19:36] <GW8RAK> I'm in the dog house now :(
[19:36] <GW8RAK> Tried the 21 ele vertical for today's launch, but something wasn't right.
[19:37] <fsphil-laptop> eek
[19:37] <fsphil-laptop> homebrew?
[19:37] <GW8RAK> And putting it vertically polarised, it bent a lot under it's own weight.
[19:37] <GW8RAK> May have to get a couple of shorter ones.
[19:38] <GW8RAK> No Phil, it's a Tonna
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[19:38] <fsphil-laptop> I've read they're good
[19:39] <GW8RAK> Always worked in the past and the driven element is new, but a few elements have been bent so the match may not be great. Will try it horizontally at the weekend on some beacons
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[19:39] <GW8RAK> At 16' long it's quite a handful
[19:39] <fsphil-laptop> I bet
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[19:40] <fsphil-laptop> I wouldn't want anything longer than the 11-ele diamonds. they *just* fit in the car
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[20:11] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8R-I5I1Dgo&feature=feedrec_grec_index
[20:11] <SpeedEvil> Sort-of-relevant
[20:11] <SpeedEvil> How gas cylinders are made.
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[20:12] <jcoxon> scary - i'm having issues with google
[20:13] <jcoxon> 502 error
[20:14] <SpeedEvil> yeah - I hit that a moment ago too
[20:15] <SpeedEvil> Http/1.1 Service Unavailable on youtube.com
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[20:17] <russss> I got a 500 with a massive block of what seems to be base-something encoded data
[20:17] <jcoxon> but but but
[20:17] <jcoxon> the world can't function without google
[20:18] <fsphil-laptop> youtube's down too
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[20:18] <fsphil-laptop> whodunnit!
[20:19] <jcoxon> fsphil-laptop, blame nearly always lies with you
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[20:20] <russss> I got the 500 again
[20:20] <russss> Sorry, something went wrong.
[20:20] <russss> A team of highly trained monkeys has been dispatched to deal with this situation.
[20:20] <russss> If you see them, show them this information:
[20:20] <russss> <block of data>
[20:21] <fsphil-laptop> well, that ethernet cable looked innocent enough
[20:26] <Dan-K2VOL1> hmm here too jcoxon
[20:27] <Dan-K2VOL1> where will we find funny cat videos today!?
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[20:31] <SpeedEvil> Loading for me.
[20:31] <SpeedEvil> (the above video)
[20:31] <SpeedEvil> Deep drawing of steel
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[20:51] <akawaka> anyone have the spec sheet for a kaymont 1200g balloon?
[20:51] <akawaka> can't seem to find it on their site anymore
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[21:16] <griffonbot> @AnthonyStirk: Three balloon launches at once on Saturday 1st Elsworth requesting all trackers man their stations please #ukhas [http://twitter.com/AnthonyStirk/status/119520951107993600]
[21:17] <fsphil> madness!
[21:18] <Upu> indeed
[21:18] <Upu> I'm seriously like a small excited child atm
[21:18] <fsphil> wasn't there one in manchester too?
[21:18] <Upu> that could be an issue we have no idea who's going up and what frequency they are using
[21:19] Action: SpeedEvil distracts Upu with a lolipop.
[21:19] <fsphil> lol
[21:23] <griffonbot> Received email: Peter "[UKHAS] Re: 2nd Launch Howest Tomorrow"
[21:29] <nosebleedKT> gnite ppl
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[21:49] <W0OTM> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRY_HVsoRSw
[21:56] <Upu> private video W0OTM
[21:56] <W0OTM> try now
[21:56] <W0OTM> oops
[21:57] <Upu> you could blow up an whole pentagon with one of those if you're not careful
[21:58] <Upu> seems very stable
[21:58] <fsphil-laptop> grrr buffering
[21:59] <Upu> quality nose dive
[22:00] <Upu> overall flight 9 out of 10, landing not so good needs some work
[22:00] <W0OTM> LMAO
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[22:08] <griffonbot> Received email: Peter "[UKHAS] Re: 2nd Launch Howest Tomorrow"
[22:08] <fsphil-laptop> Makes me feel better about my last landing
[22:11] <fsphil-laptop> haha, they had floats on the payload
[22:13] <fsphil-laptop> huge parachute
[22:14] <Upu> thats awesome
[22:14] <Upu> all sealed for water landing:)
[22:28] <SpeedEvil> http://www.c-span.org/Events/National-Press-Club-The-Future-of-Human-Spaceflight/10737424486/
[22:29] <SpeedEvil> Musk on reusable rocketry
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[23:07] <SpeedEvil> 33:30 in that video.
[23:08] <SpeedEvil> 'We have 1% of the lobbying power of boing and lockheed. If the decision depends on lobbying power, we are screwed'
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[00:00] --- Fri Sep 30 2011