highaltitude.log.20110926

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[06:02] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] October 1st/2nd Balloon Launch from EARS"
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[07:06] <costyn> morning
[07:07] <gm> yay, quad has shipped
[07:23] <Darkside> gm
[07:23] <Darkside> ping
[07:43] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] October 1st/2nd Balloon Launch from EARS"
[07:51] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] October 1st/2nd Balloon Launch from EARS"
[08:04] <gm> Darkside: yeah?
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[08:26] Nick change: Elwell -> evilElwell
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[09:21] <WillDuckworth> morning, just putting a write up together from yesterday's launch
[09:21] <WillDuckworth> thanks for everyone's assistance who helped out - it was a tricky one!
[09:22] <daveake> Did you get it back?
[09:27] <evilElwell> So, where do I attach the baloon? http://www.flickr.com/photos/elwell/6184838050
[09:28] <daveake> We're gonna need a big truck and very beefy crane :)
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[09:43] <WillDuckworth> daveake, yep, middle of a field near melton mowbray
[09:45] <daveake> Excellent :)
[09:46] <daveake> The last GPS location I saw mentioned was in the middle of a field
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[10:42] <griffonbot> Received email: WillD "[UKHAS] Re: Weekend Launch (24th/25th Sept) - WDHAB"
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[11:14] <costyn> WillDuckworth: nice, lots of purty pictures, even though the electronics were a bit of a letdown
[11:15] <Darkside> yay, i have a nice bottle of isopropyl alchohol
[11:15] <WillDuckworth> cheers costyn - (and cheers Darkside ;)
[11:15] <Darkside> eh?
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[11:22] <costyn> Darkside: enjoy your alcohol I think he means :)
[11:24] <Darkside> lol
[11:24] <staylo> but do it responsibly!
[11:24] <Darkside> hahah
[11:24] <Darkside> IPA would kill me
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[11:56] <Laurenceb_> can you c&p a dll between windoze machines?
[11:56] <Laurenceb_> and it still work
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[12:02] <costyn> Laurenceb_: depends, is it a driver? might work, but the DLLs are put in the registry as well; so probablywon't work
[12:02] <Laurenceb_> its a driver
[12:02] <Laurenceb_> hmm thats annoying
[12:02] <griffonbot> Received email: Peter "[UKHAS] 2nd Launch Howest"
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[12:03] <costyn> i would try to find the original installer... but seeing your question, I'm guessing that's not an option :)
[12:03] <Laurenceb_> its part of an IDE trial edition thingy
[12:03] <Laurenceb_> that only lasts 30 days
[12:03] <costyn> hmm
[12:03] <Laurenceb_> it might just be the drivers stay installed forever
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[12:03] <costyn> could be... do you only need the drivers?
[12:03] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[12:03] <Laurenceb_> but i can only find them as part of an ide
[12:04] <costyn> well I thikn the drivers would just keep working; never heard of those crapping out after a trial period
[12:04] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[12:04] <Laurenceb_> thats ok then :P
[12:05] <costyn> "should just work" as we say here in the office :)
[12:05] <daveake> Every time I use "should" like that, I end up having to sacrifice a goat
[12:06] <costyn> daveake: there's that too yes, no guarantees :P
[12:06] <costyn> Laurenceb_: you'll probably have to keep the IDE installed though
[12:15] <Laurenceb_> yeah
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[12:21] <WillDuckworth> hmmm, looking at the underground route planner and i think there's work going on when the conference is taking place on the 15th Oct
[12:23] <WillDuckworth> looks like circle line and northern line for angel is out :(
[12:24] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Randall "[UKHAS] Flight Announcement - XABEN flight Tomorrow"
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[12:39] <Laurenceb_> interesting
[12:39] <Laurenceb_> ubuntu 10.04 wont mount a hibernated windoze partition
[12:39] <Laurenceb_> gives me warning about mounting something thats hibernated
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[12:52] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[13:50] Nick change: SAIDias -> W0OTM
[13:50] <W0OTM> ]
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[14:10] <fsphil> WillDuckworth, some very nice pictures there!
[14:11] <WillDuckworth> cheers fsphil, just sorting through and will put a stash on flickr. The other camera had half an antenna in it unfortunately!
[14:13] <fsphil> looks like you had most of the balloon come down with it
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[15:05] <Laurenceb_> Randomskk: ping
[15:05] <Randomskk> hi
[15:05] <Laurenceb_> hi there
[15:05] <Laurenceb_> are you interested in collaborating on some uav work?
[15:05] <Laurenceb_> theres so much work to do :S
[15:06] <Randomskk> yes in the sense that when I am doing uav work I'm happy for it to be collaborative
[15:06] <Randomskk> but I don't know how much time I can commit to any given thing
[15:07] <Laurenceb_> i was thinking we really need a pipextreme groudstation dongle
[15:07] <Laurenceb_> and not much seems to be happening over at #openpilot
[15:07] <Laurenceb_> stm32+si4432
[15:08] <zachjacobs> Hello all, I'm using the www.habhub.org/predict webpage to predict a balloon launch that we have coming up. In the US, does this use winds aloft data from NOAA?
[15:08] <Randomskk> kinda
[15:08] <Randomskk> it uses the NOAA worldwide wind prediction datasets
[15:08] <Randomskk> which is probably the same thing that "winds aloft" is, but I've never heard that term
[15:09] <Laurenceb_> Randomskk: are you still thinking of 434/868mhz data with silabs ic?
[15:09] <Randomskk> Laurenceb_: toss up. that or zigbee, or if I use gumstix, wifi
[15:09] <Randomskk> I have a requirement for mesh capability
[15:09] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[15:09] <Laurenceb_> range is surely important
[15:09] <Randomskk> zigbee gives that automatically while doing via radio ic directly means implementing it myself
[15:09] <zachjacobs> Yeah, that's probably the same thing then...thanks.
[15:10] <Randomskk> yea, so 2.4ghz might not be optimal
[15:10] <Randomskk> zachjacobs: no problem
[15:10] <Laurenceb_> openpilot have solved most of the problems
[15:10] <Laurenceb_> it just seems not much is happening with getting the hardware out
[15:10] <Laurenceb_> something openpilot compatible would be really good
[15:11] <Randomskk> for ground station?
[15:11] <Laurenceb_> yes
[15:11] <Laurenceb_> basically that means si4432+stm32
[15:11] <Randomskk> and then what, something for usb?
[15:11] <Laurenceb_> so it can run pipextreme ontop of PiOS
[15:11] <Laurenceb_> yes
[15:12] <Laurenceb_> PiOS is the openpilot RTOS
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[15:12] <Randomskk> right
[15:13] <Randomskk> and the ground station would run that?
[15:13] <Laurenceb_> aiui the existing groudstation supports USB HID
[15:13] <Laurenceb_> yes
[15:13] <Randomskk> can't it just relay messages from the radio ic?
[15:13] <Laurenceb_> thats what i was thinking lol
[15:13] <Laurenceb_> but copying their setup saves time
[15:13] <Laurenceb_> just grab the git and compile
[15:13] <Randomskk> yea I guess
[15:13] <Laurenceb_> just requires a board
[15:14] <Randomskk> could a mesh topology or something be implemented on top of their radio protocol?
[15:14] <Laurenceb_> i might be able to persuade someone to give the gerbers for their board
[15:14] <Randomskk> or is it just designed for flight telemetry downlink?
[15:14] <Laurenceb_> but it hasnt been released
[15:14] <Laurenceb_> im not sure
[15:14] <Randomskk> if someone has designed one it seems like it'd be a duplication of effort to make the same thing
[15:14] <Laurenceb_> atm UAVtalk has to handshake between two hardware devices
[15:14] <Laurenceb_> well yes and no
[15:15] <Laurenceb_> it could be in dongle form, and support dual antenni in hardware
[15:16] <Laurenceb_> also aiui their RF design is poor and loses about 4dB
[15:16] <Laurenceb_> all because they tried to avoid an RF switch, so RF goes to the wrong port
[15:16] <Randomskk> ah
[15:17] <Laurenceb_> need more openpilot developers :P
[15:19] <Laurenceb_> http://wiki.openpilot.org/display/Doc/OpenPilot+PipXtreme
[15:19] <Laurenceb_> i guess it is quite nice
[15:23] <Randomskk> it does look neat
[15:23] <Randomskk> "will support multiple point to point connections at some point" hmm :P
[15:26] <Laurenceb_> yeah i guess the sane thing is pester people for gerbers
[15:26] <Laurenceb_> ive made some progress with the interrupt driven crazyness on dactyl
[15:27] <Laurenceb_> havent finished the interrupt driven i2c tho - its a pita
[15:27] <Laurenceb_> ~but everything else is done
[15:28] <Laurenceb_> im going to move to stm32f4 for the next version, but this code should still make it more efficient
[15:31] <Laurenceb_> http://pastebin.com/QsdLtgKk
[15:31] <Randomskk> hahaha
[15:31] <Randomskk> oh man
[15:31] <Randomskk> this is why it's great when people put all their stuff on github first
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[15:32] <BrainDamage> this, it's truly silly how many people keep their work private, brag about it so others don't work on the same topic, then leave without publishing
[15:33] <BrainDamage> I can give few examples for OSS games
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[15:44] <Laurenceb_> lol youtube
[15:44] <Laurenceb_> comments on britney spears hit me one more time
[15:44] <Laurenceb_> 'americans are so stupid they are still in school when they are about 30'
[15:54] <SpeedEvil> Leave britney alone!
[15:54] <SpeedEvil> http://britneyspears.ac/lasers.htm
[15:54] <SpeedEvil> She's smart!
[15:56] <SamSilver_> J Simpson and the "chicken or fish" was funny
[15:59] <SpeedEvil> I thought it was going to be like (not worksafe) http://www2.b3ta.com/funnelortunnel/
[16:00] <SamSilver_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2h72aXVP8o
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[16:01] Action: SpeedEvil hates forms.
[16:01] <SpeedEvil> Well - forms in the least sense.
[16:02] <SpeedEvil> I'm up to 3500 words in this application for benefit.
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[16:02] <SpeedEvil> Though some of this is citation from court documents.
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[16:59] <kwwaber> Hi all. I was wondering if you take out any kind of insurance for your launches against the payloads causing damage or injury on landing? Anyone know anything about this?
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[17:04] <SpeedEvil> Generally, it's ignored.
[17:04] <SpeedEvil> A recent FOIA to the UK met office revealed that around .1% of radiosondes hit something on the way down.
[17:04] <SpeedEvil> The average cost of a claim is around 300 pounds.
[17:05] <SpeedEvil> So, 30p per launch
[17:09] <kwwaber> Fair enough. I guessed the probability of hitting someone or something must be pretty negligible if you check the flightpath estimates prior to launch
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[17:10] <SpeedEvil> In general, the predictions are not good enough to avoid any but the biggest sttlemets.
[17:11] <SpeedEvil> So, yes, you may be able to avoid towns over a few tens of K population, but not villages.
[17:12] <kwwaber> Sure. Theres always some degree of risk thats unavoidable.
[17:12] Nick change: daveake___ -> daveake
[17:13] <kwwaber> Would you happen to know if that FOIA was published anywhere online that I could access?
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[17:19] <griffonbot> @Aimreeky: A Fresh Grocers Hoagie wud definitely b a #cusf [http://twitter.com/Aimreeky/status/118374242524995584]
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[17:24] <SpeedEvil> kwwaber: yes
[17:24] <fsphil> ah twitter. so full of stuff
[17:25] <SpeedEvil> http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/request_for_information_on_compe_34#incoming-87632
[17:27] <kwwaber> fantastic. just what I needed. thanks for that!
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[17:41] <jcoxon> evening all
[17:41] <W0OTM> howdy
[17:41] <daveake> evening
[17:42] <fsphil> 'lo
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[17:47] <costyn> lo
[17:48] <costyn> so, apparently I'm free to use APRS here in NL and/or anything in the 70cm band. Or so says a HAM friend of mine
[17:48] <costyn> would you guys use APRS if you could?
[17:48] <costyn> (in the UK)
[17:49] <jcoxon> costyn, most likely yes
[17:49] <jcoxon> though not having APRS hasn't been a bad thing
[17:49] <jcoxon> we've developed some cool things in its place
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[17:51] <GW8RAK> Remember though, that we are not prohibited from using APRS, just using amateur frequencies. We could still use them on licence free modules
[17:51] <costyn> ah ok
[17:51] <jcoxon> GW8RAK, yes very true
[17:51] <jcoxon> APRS is just a protocol
[17:51] <GW8RAK> Just thinking, does APRS need to be FM?
[17:52] <jcoxon> nope
[17:52] <jcoxon> APRS is just the protocol for the packet format
[17:52] <GW8RAK> Just occurred to me as well. Would be interesting to try it and compare it to RTY
[17:52] <GW8RAK> RTTY
[17:53] <GW8RAK> I suppose the biggest problem is that APRS is based on 1200 baud.
[17:53] <GW8RAK> Or rather, the software in use assumes 1200
[17:53] <jcoxon> yeah
[17:53] <jcoxon> we did packet on a gumstix through an ntx2
[17:54] <Zuph> Afternoon, #highaltitude
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[17:57] <GW8RAK> How did you generate the two tones? Does the gumstix have a "sound card" on it?
[17:57] <costyn> back... had to put the kid to bed :)
[17:57] <costyn> anyways, I meant APRS on the 2m band
[17:57] <Zuph> GW8RAK: Not sure how jcoxon did it, but the gumstix *does* have a sound card. At least, some of them do.
[17:58] <GW8RAK> Expensive bits, but quite attractive
[17:58] <Zuph> I really like the gumstix.
[17:59] <GW8RAK> Probably beyond my very limited programming skills
[17:59] <Zuph> It runs linux, so it's really very easy.
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[17:59] <jcoxon> yeah there is an audio daughter board
[17:59] <GW8RAK> Experts always think things are "easy" :)
[17:59] <jcoxon> so we we able to generate a wav file to play through it
[18:00] <jcoxon> still have it
[18:00] <jcoxon> all set up
[18:00] <GW8RAK> Would like to have a play with one
[18:00] <GW8RAK> Better get outside and get the aerial up before it gets dark
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[18:02] <Zuph> I am interested in seeing how much power the RaspberryPi will use, and how much GPIO is broken out.
[18:02] <SpeedEvil> There was a page with ahdware details and layout
[18:03] <SpeedEvil> Feom memory, it's about 16 GPIO@2.5V
[18:03] <Zuph> Yeah, I wonder if it breaks out anything useful like I2C/I2S or some serial ports.
[18:03] <Zuph> I know it's supposed to use like 1W max.
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[18:04] <Zuph> I haven't looked at it in a while, I should probably see what they've updated.
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[18:09] <GW8RAK> Lovely evening outside tonight. Warm and calm. Looks good for the week.
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[19:08] Action: Laurenceb decides to rewrite his stm32 i2c driver _yet again_
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[20:08] <jonsowman> jcoxon: ping
[20:17] <jcoxon> pong
[20:18] <jonsowman> hi james, did you get my email earlier
[20:18] <jonsowman> ?
[20:18] <jcoxon> yeah
[20:18] <jcoxon> need to chat with Upu
[20:19] <jcoxon> i need to chat with upu that is
[20:19] <Upu> pong
[20:19] <jonsowman> cool, thanks :)
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[20:27] <jonsowman> thanks jcoxon and Upu
[20:27] <jonsowman> :)
[20:27] <Upu> what did I do ?
[20:27] <Upu> welcome whatever it was
[20:27] <jonsowman> haha
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[20:53] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[20:53] <Upu> evening Lunar_Lander
[20:54] <nosebleedKT_> hello
[20:54] EI5GTB (~EI5GTB@host-92-20-55-123.as13285.net) joined #highaltitude.
[20:54] <Upu> anyone know what frequency Steves' flight tommorrow is on ?
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> hi nosebleedKT_ and Upu
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> seeedstudio seems to be up again
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> they said on twitter that their hoster was attacked or so
[20:57] <nosebleedKT_> yeah
[20:57] <nosebleedKT_> jealous companies hit them :)
[20:57] <EI5GTB> evening
[20:57] <EI5GTB> any results from sundays launch?
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> really?
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> was it really a concurrent nosebleedKT_?
[20:58] <fsphil> hiya EI5GTB, wdhab? there's a report on will's site: http://wdhab.blogspot.com/2011/09/launch-day.html
[20:59] <EI5GTB> fsphil: fantastic
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[21:03] <Lunar_Lander> hi daveake_
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[21:11] <Upu> Steves launch is on 434.650 btw
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[21:20] <fsphil> this has been the busiest month so far for launches
[21:21] <EI5GTB> whens the next? i would love to get involved...
[21:21] <EI5GTB> the van is well kitted out as far as recieving goes :P
[21:22] <fsphil> there's at least one this weekend, hopefully two
[21:22] <fsphil> there's one tomorrow too
[21:23] <fsphil> Howest in Belgium is launching again on Thursday
[21:23] <fsphil> you should be able to hear that one in the south east
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[21:26] <daveake_> Hoping for a Buzz1 launch in October
[21:26] Nick change: daveake_ -> daveale
[21:28] <fsphil> I was hoping to launch before the end of september, but it'll be october now
[21:28] <fsphil> hopefully...
[21:29] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: Waiting on the weather?
[21:30] <SpeedEvil> Weren't you running out of time on your launch permit - ot did you get another?
[21:30] <fsphil> I'm still waiting on the first one
[21:30] <fsphil> weather was awful to be fair, I wouldn't have been able to launch anyway
[21:31] <fsphil> I'm not sure why this one is taking so long
[21:32] <SpeedEvil> ah
[21:33] <fsphil> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=49ecc34cc8a58770f89a9af5015d047c1c53d863
[21:33] <fsphil> the winds prefer Scotland these past few weeks
[21:36] <SpeedEvil> I've been there!
[21:36] <SpeedEvil> I was fishing off the pier.
[21:36] <SpeedEvil> I caught a seagull.
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:38] <fsphil> lol
[21:38] <fsphil> intentionally?
[21:39] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: No.
[21:40] <SpeedEvil> I was aiming for fish, it flew into the line, and got tangled up
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[21:44] <simongrice> hi
[21:44] <simongrice> we're doing a launch on 8th Oct (Planned)
[21:44] <simongrice> http://www.sudburyspacesociety.com/
[21:45] <simongrice> would love some help !!
[21:45] <simongrice> need advise on size of balloon and amount of helium
[21:45] <Upu> Evening Simon
[21:45] <simongrice> payload is 2.5kg (big camera and some electronics)
[21:45] <Upu> do you have a balloon ?
[21:45] <fsphil> hiya simongrice, we where just talking about upcoming launches :)
[21:45] <Upu> ouch thats hevay
[21:45] <simongrice> yes... heav
[21:45] <simongrice> heavy -
[21:45] <Upu> hope your parachute works :)
[21:45] <Upu> do you have a balloon at the moment ?
[21:46] <simongrice> we think we can get a 2000g ballon with 5 cu m of helium
[21:46] <simongrice> need to buy the balloon !
[21:46] <Upu> Do you know the make of balloon ?
[21:46] <simongrice> http://randomsolutions.co.uk/Random_Aerospace/Balloons.html
[21:46] <Upu> ok
[21:47] <Upu> firstly :
[21:47] <Upu> http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/calc/
[21:47] <simongrice> question is - are our calcuations correct
[21:47] <Upu> Works for Totex, Hwoyee are a bit random
[21:47] <Upu> put in payload
[21:47] <Upu> mass
[21:47] <Upu> balloon
[21:47] <Upu> etc
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[21:47] <Upu> you can get a feel for the volume of gas you'll need
[21:48] <Upu> the neck lift so you can gauge it etc
[21:48] <Upu> then when you're done playing with that and the numbers work
[21:48] <Upu> http://habhub.org/predict/
[21:48] <Upu> put in your numbers location ascent etc etc
[21:48] <Upu> and see if you're going to end in the sea
[21:48] <Upu> :)
[21:50] <fsphil> arr
[21:50] <daveale> simongrice: love the logo :-). Are you using UHF radio tracking? If so what frequency? I'm planning a launch on the same date .....
[21:50] <simongrice> John Burch my partner is here
[21:50] <simongrice> he did logo :)
[21:51] <JohnBurch> Hi Simon
[21:51] <simongrice> simongrice: love the logo :-). Are you using UHF radio tracking? If so what frequency? I'm planning a launch on the same date .....
[21:51] <daveale> A friend did a "DASA" logo for me, just like that one.
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> hello simongrice
[21:51] Nick change: daveale -> daveake
[21:51] <Upu> seen that logo some place before just can't place it...
[21:51] <JohnBurch> Any resemblance to a US aero/space agency is totally coincidental
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> xD!
[21:51] <daveake> :D
[21:51] <fsphil> haha
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> simongrice: your idea with the homemade receiver is interesting
[21:52] <Upu> so what frequency are you transmitting on ?
[21:52] <simongrice> John's idea !
[21:52] <daveake> http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveake/6158855044/
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> yay
[21:53] <JohnBurch> Hopefully can get away the Radiometrix 9.6K radio modem
[21:53] <simongrice> lol - great loho - daveake !
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> JohnBurch and simongrice "Challenge  Cold (batteries dont work when very cold and it will be at least 50oC so they need heating via solar power), " may I comment on that?
[21:53] <Upu> which module is that John ?
[21:53] <daveake> My payload for 8th is on 434.650MHz, but I do have a 434.075
[21:53] <Upu> go for it Lunar :)
[21:54] <JohnBurch> The receiver is RXL2-433-9
[21:54] <fsphil> 9600 baud from a balloon is ambitious :)
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> experience has shown that inside payload boxes it is relatively warm
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> it won't be -50°C insode
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> inside
[21:54] <JohnBurch> Dont have the TX model to hand as was fixed in payload today
[21:54] <Upu> What Lunar has said, you don't need the solar panels, just use Energizer Ultimate Lithiums
[21:55] <simongrice> @upu - can't get http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/calc/ to work - if we are lifting 2.5kg - do you think a 2000g balloon will be ok with around 5 cu m of helium ?
[21:55] <Upu> how much weight does that save you ?
[21:55] <JohnBurch> Trouble is the Gopro camera needs charging
[21:55] <Upu> what size Helium cylinder do you have ?
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> simongrice: does the page refuse to work for you?
[21:56] <Upu> By my calcs
[21:56] <JohnBurch> Using 4000 maH NI-MH rechargeable
[21:56] <Upu> junk them honestly :/
[21:57] <Upu> use Energizer lithums , lighter, last longer work better and you can loose the solar panels
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> there are those new printed solar panels, they could be worth a test
[21:57] <Upu> ok
[21:57] <Upu> 2.5kg
[21:57] <JohnBurch> Ok, just it looks so cool with solar panels and got them real cheap
[21:57] <Upu> Kaymont 2000g balloon
[21:57] <Upu> target burst 34000
[21:57] <Upu> (you can't get 38000)
[21:57] <Upu> Time to burst 123mins
[21:58] <Upu> you need 5592L of gas
[21:58] <JohnBurch> if no solar panels, payload is just shy of 2KG
[21:58] <Upu> with 3739g of neck lift
[21:58] <Upu> ascent is 4.6m/s
[21:58] <Upu> my biggest concern is that is a VERY heavy payload if the parachute tangles its going to make a crater
[21:58] <simongrice> ok thanks @upu -
[21:59] <simongrice> @upu @johnburch - yes better make sure we have insurance
[21:59] <simongrice> on that note - any thoughts
[21:59] <simongrice> we are new to this game
[21:59] <simongrice> i have a limited company public liability
[21:59] <Upu> we haven't found anyone to insure us yet
[21:59] <simongrice> can we fly 'as the company'
[21:59] <Upu> We have some advisory guide lines here : lit
[21:59] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:guidelines
[22:00] <Upu> note item 2 :)
[22:00] <Upu> anyway I'll stop banging on about the weight
[22:00] <Upu> whats the coordinates of where you're launching from and what date and time are you doing it ?
[22:00] <Upu> and what frequency are you transmitting on again sorry
[22:00] <JohnBurch> EARS or Churchill College seem to be the place
[22:01] <JohnBurch> 433mhz
[22:01] <Upu> Have you spoken to anyone from there about launching ?
[22:01] <JohnBurch> Not yet, need to do that
[22:01] <JohnBurch> One of the reasons we're here to introduce ourselves
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[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> today I called a ham btw
[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> he's interested in taking part in my project
[22:05] <Upu> Are you transmitting standard UKHAS telemetry JohnBurch ?
[22:06] <Upu> i.e 434.075 $$CALLSIGN etc ?
[22:07] <JohnBurch> No its the Radiometrix 9.6K modem modules. But I can feed the data in UKHAS format to the servers
[22:07] <Upu> you know legally you can only transmit @ 10mW in the air ?
[22:07] <JohnBurch> Thats what the o/p of the TX module is
[22:08] <Upu> ok
[22:08] <JohnBurch> Got it all formated but just need to add the no. of GPS can see
[22:09] <Upu> well for the record the maximum attempted @ 10mW was 1200 baud
[22:09] <Upu> normally the telemetry comes down at 50 baud :)
[22:09] <Upu> interesting project though
[22:10] <JohnBurch> These are 9.6, using a 8db 3 element yagi (pointing down) on the payload and a 18db yagi on the ground with a 15db low noise pre-amp. Fingers crossed
[22:11] <Upu> I'd do some long range testing before you lauch, its alot of kit to potentially loose
[22:11] <Upu> oh a Yagi on the payload ?!
[22:11] <Upu> wow
[22:11] <Upu> err
[22:11] <JohnBurch> One of the main aims is prove that these modules can be used. Everything is written to a SD card if it doesn't work
[22:12] <Lunar_Lander> AFAIK (or maybe it is only in germany), the 10 mW have to be radiated isotropically
[22:12] <Lunar_Lander> that means that only a simple dipole is allowed as antenna
[22:12] <fsphil> I believe it is the same here Lunar_Lander
[22:12] <JohnBurch> 3 pieces of coat hanger on the side of the payload
[22:13] <JohnBurch> reflector, active & 1 director
[22:13] <Upu> spikey bits
[22:14] <Lunar_Lander> yeah and probably not allowed because it is directional
[22:14] <simongrice> sorry back...
[22:14] <simongrice> question before we all hit the sack
[22:14] <simongrice> can we launch in preston - st- mary
[22:15] <Upu> you can launch anywhere you can get a NOTAM for
[22:15] <SpeedEvil> Crazy.
[22:15] <SpeedEvil> Digital 3 axis accel - $.67@100
[22:15] <Upu> could I just advise though you may want to test the concept before sticking a GoPro up there
[22:15] <Lunar_Lander> 100 chips? SpeedEvil
[22:15] <JohnBurch> Haven't seen anything about being radiated isotropically only the 10 mW
[22:16] <Randomskk> 10mW is EIRP
[22:16] <simongrice> so in laymens terms - i'm getting the sense we're trying something quite ambitious!
[22:17] <Upu> being blunt yes :)
[22:17] <JohnBurch> Good
[22:17] <Upu> which is great trying new stuff is the idea
[22:17] <Upu> just keep it safe
[22:17] <SpeedEvil> Lunar_Lander: yes
[22:18] <JohnBurch> So we can only use a dipole then?
[22:18] <simongrice> press are keen -> http://www.sudburyspacesociety.com/press
[22:18] <Upu> personally I'm not sure but doubt you'll get 9600 out of a dipole
[22:18] <JohnBurch> Me too
[22:18] <Upu> 300 is about normal maximum
[22:19] <Randomskk> simongrice: uhm ambitious makes it sound sensible
[22:19] <daveake> Also, don't forget that the payload will swing around on ascent (and will fall ar$e over tits on descent till the parachute deploys) so you may not want a directional antenna up there.
[22:20] <JohnBurch> In the tests it's been very reliable but that is just a mile horizontal
[22:20] <fsphil> regarding 10mw on 434mhz ... the ofcom docs say 10mw e.r.p. (effective radiated power)
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[22:20] <simongrice> @randomskk @upu - on a serious note - what are the major things we need to look out for - we're 1st timers ! hence why @johnburch and I came on tonight ! thanks for all your help!
[22:20] <simongrice> john@ideas.org & simon@ideas.org if anyone wants to email us
[22:20] <Upu> seriously. Look to loosing alot of weight
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> you're welcome simongrice JohnBurch
[22:20] <Upu> just consider they normally come down 10m/s
[22:21] <Upu> under parachute
[22:21] <Randomskk> so fwiw I help run the cambridge launch site
[22:21] <Randomskk> basically yea, uhm
[22:21] <Randomskk> what you're doing could work
[22:21] <Upu> thats an awful lot of energy if it hits a car something it's going to make a dent
[22:21] <Randomskk> but it's quite far out of what people have done before
[22:21] <Randomskk> in particular, having a directional antenna on the payload and transmitting at 9600 baud are both highly unusual
[22:22] <Randomskk> they might work
[22:22] <Randomskk> but it's potentially unlikely
[22:22] <Randomskk> or rather - the directional antenna allows the 9600 to work, perhaps
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[22:22] <Randomskk> but it seriously impacts the area in which you can receive the payload
[22:22] <JohnBurch> Only 1 way to find out. Ground testing only gets you so far
[22:22] <Randomskk> so you'd need to be totally on the ball while chasing
[22:22] <Randomskk> which is hard
[22:22] <Randomskk> what are you sending at 9600 baud, though?
[22:22] <Randomskk> like, if all you are sending is GPS data
[22:22] <Randomskk> then it doesn't update that fast
[22:22] <Randomskk> you get maybe one fix a second
[22:23] <Randomskk> maybe ten if you're using a faster gps engine
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[22:23] <Upu> personally if I was going to try that I'd have a normal NTX2 transmitting @ 50 baud via a dipole which is tried and tested then do your 9600 on a different frequency
[22:23] <Randomskk> you realistically need about one a minute from a balloon
[22:23] <Randomskk> so 9600 would be cool if you were transmitting more data
[22:23] <Randomskk> like, a lot of science results, or live imagery
[22:23] <Randomskk> but for standard gps position, altitude etc it's not really needed
[22:23] <Randomskk> so you're risking losing a lot, without much gain?
[22:24] <Randomskk> but yea, no one else has tried it afaik
[22:24] <JohnBurch> If we're going to do it then go the whole 9 yards. GPS, barometric, magnetometer and a 320x180 jpg every 20 seconds
[22:24] <Randomskk> have you got the jpg stuff working?
[22:24] <Randomskk> on the ground?
[22:24] <JohnBurch> yep
[22:24] <Randomskk> that's kinda cool
[22:24] <Randomskk> okay, so fair enough
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[22:24] <Randomskk> do you have error correction on the jpg?
[22:24] <Lunar_Lander> btw "the rotating camera mounting," JohnBurch and simongrice, do you want to rotate the whole camera?
[22:24] <JohnBurch> and accelerometer
[22:25] <Randomskk> I take it you are planning to drive after the thing once it's launched?
[22:25] <JohnBurch> yes 2 cameras rotated by a servo
[22:25] <Randomskk> your area of reception is going to be small and swing around a lot
[22:25] <JohnBurch> yes, really would like to recover it
[22:25] <Lunar_Lander> I just had the thought of doing what they did on the Surveyor Lunar probes
[22:25] <fsphil> the polarity of the signal will be constantly changing too
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[22:25] <simongrice> @randomskk - we will have a fast car :)
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> instead of swinging the camera, they swung a mirror in front of it
[22:26] <Randomskk> fast car's not much use in traffic or off road
[22:26] <fsphil> traffic? :)
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> needed a much smaller motor
[22:26] <JohnBurch> not too bothered about it on the way down, have a tracker send SMS location every 5 mins
[22:26] <Randomskk> may or may not be reliable
[22:26] <JohnBurch> we htought of that but Mark (our camera man) went the servo way
[22:27] <jonsowman> be warned about servos
[22:27] <Randomskk> for that to work it has to get GSM and GPS reception on the way down and hold it long enough to send a message - depending on where it lands it may or may not have one or both
[22:27] <jonsowman> they like to freeze solid when they get cold
[22:27] <daveake> The tracker will only work at low altitudes, and you may find it takes a while to get a lock on the way down.
[22:27] <Randomskk> especially if the GSM tracker has a patch antenna and it lands in the wrong orientation
[22:27] <JohnBurch> tried it at -20C and its a metal gear servo
[22:27] <Upu> anyway I'm off to bed, good luck SSS :)
[22:27] <JohnBurch> Ta
[22:28] <fsphil> night Upu
[22:28] <simongrice> cool
[22:28] <daveake> nite Upu
[22:28] <simongrice> thanks @upu !
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[22:28] <simongrice> i'm off too - got to earn some cash tomorrow to pay for all this equip we're going to lose :) - fingers cross not
[22:28] <Randomskk> haha yea
[22:28] <JohnBurch> The tracker should kick-in at about 1 mile altitude
[22:28] <daveake> Mine did. Some don't.
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:28] <Randomskk> so you've probably left it too late to get a NOTAM if you want to launch on the 8th
[22:28] <fsphil> ours didn't
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> hi jonsowman
[22:29] <jonsowman> hi Lunar_Lander
[22:29] <JohnBurch> Its Mark's Gopro that's the real cost
[22:29] <simongrice> @randonskk - how do we get a NOTAM for the 8th Oct ???
[22:29] <Randomskk> if you do want to launch from cambridge, get in touch with jonsowman or me, but we'll probably want to check things look safe first
[22:29] <Randomskk> simongrice: you basically can't
[22:29] <Randomskk> few months lead time
[22:29] <daveake> Yep. I bought a Kodak Zx1 on ebay for £22
[22:29] <fsphil> have you guys considered flying with just the radio equipment first?
[22:29] <jonsowman> simongrice: 28 days if you're lucky
[22:29] <fsphil> maybe a cheap ebay camera?
[22:29] <Randomskk> however EARS and CUSF (which is cambridge) both have long-term NOTAMs so we can launch at 24hr notice
[22:29] <Randomskk> well, legally.
[22:29] <jonsowman> daveake: blimey that's cheap
[22:30] <Randomskk> practically we both need a lot more than 24 hours of actual notice, plus EARS is weekends-only
[22:30] <simongrice> @randomskk @jonsowman can you email simon@ideas.org and john@ideas.org - easier on email
[22:30] <daveake> Missed one for £15 :p
[22:30] <simongrice> thanks !
[22:30] <simongrice> sleep well all !
[22:30] <Randomskk> seeya
[22:30] <jonsowman> simongrice: will do
[22:30] <simongrice> ta
[22:30] <simongrice> ! cheers
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> good night simongrice
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[22:30] <JohnBurch> Yes me too, night all
[22:30] <daveake> Had a Zx1 before but that's kinda lost at the mo
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> gn8 JohnBurch
[22:31] <daveake> jonsowman: I wanted the same thing as a replacement (since I have the remote control and other bits still). Several sold in a week between £15 and £30
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> so tomorrow I'll go to the HF lab of the university of applied sciences in Muenster to show my project
[22:32] <jonsowman> daveake: ntb
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> and in early October I'll visit a ham nearby that is interested too
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> so that we could fly nosebleedKT_'s board with the HX1 transmitter
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> and do APRS
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> :)
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[22:34] <daveake> nite all.
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[22:34] <Lunar_Lander> I really hope we can fly soon
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[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> either with AATiS or the Muenster insurance
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> The weather service wrote that they passed on my insurance request to the appropiate office
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[22:41] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:45] <staylo> Muenster insurance? Hope they have the theme tune..
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[22:51] <Lunar_Lander> back
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[00:00] --- Tue Sep 27 2011