highaltitude.log.20110923

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[06:15] <NigeyS> lalalala
[06:15] <Darkside> laaaaaaaa
[06:15] <NigeyS> working since 4am sucks ass!
[06:15] <NigeyS> hey Darkside !
[06:16] <Darkside> hey
[06:16] <NigeyS> i love it when ..
[06:17] <NigeyS> im told the site im moving is a "few hundred meg at most"
[06:17] <NigeyS> and i get this bullshit.. 5.9G Sep 22 21:04 backup-9.22.2011_19-44-25_xxxx.tar.gz
[06:17] <daveake> Slight underestimate then
[06:18] <NigeyS> just a little!
[06:18] <NigeyS> and the devs keep leaving debug logging turned on on their cms, so 3gig of that was frikkin un-necessary log files
[06:19] <NigeyS> http://www.milkmatters.co.uk/cats/ <--- rofl !! .. site im moving at the mo .. watch the vid
[06:20] <griffonbot> Received email: James Coxon "Re: [UKHAS] New launch date HOWEST: 23 September"
[06:21] <daveake> :-). One of our cats does quite well on his own ... he comes over and head-butts the cereal bowl so you spill the milk.
[06:22] <NigeyS> lmao cats are mad, mine sleeps .. or tries to sleep on top of the cooker :|
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[07:37] <costyn> morn
[07:42] <Dutch-Mill> moen@all
[07:43] <Dutch-Mill> morn@all
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[07:50] <fsphil> moonin
[07:50] <daveake> moanin
[07:53] <NigeyS> omgs people :o
[07:54] <daveake> Look, just because you've been up for over 5 hours already ... ;)
[07:54] <NigeyS> lol
[07:54] <NigeyS> all you lazy people sleeping tut tu ;)
[07:56] <costyn> NigeyS: sleep is wonderful!
[07:57] <NigeyS> shh i don't understand the concept of sleep!
[08:00] <fsphil> watch titanic, you'll get the idea pretty quick
[08:00] <Dutch-Mill> sleeping = reset
[08:01] <daveake> lol. I fell asleep to that too!
[08:01] <griffonbot> Received email: John Graham-Cumming "Re: [UKHAS] New launch date HOWEST: 23 September"
[08:01] <Dutch-Mill> waking = reboot
[08:02] <Dutch-Mill> birthday = upgrade ;-)
[08:02] <NigeyS> lol
[08:02] <daveake> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wM7CIr2zFk
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[08:16] <fsphil> howest is in the air
[08:17] <costyn> fsphil: is there a webpage with telemetry available?
[08:17] <fsphil> http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[08:17] <jgrahamc> I'm watching M6JCX's DL-FLDIGI or any signal. Anyone else?
[08:17] <fsphil> I'm at work so can't :(
[08:17] <fsphil> will take a peek over tea time
[08:18] <costyn> interesting... why was it launched from an airport? :)
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[08:23] <fsphil> quick ascent
[08:24] <gm> well i have dl-fldigi working
[08:24] <gm> so next horus balloon proving i can get a decent antenna going will be tracked by me
[08:24] <fsphil> excellent
[08:25] <gm> also note: "zero" parity is not the same as "no" parity
[08:25] <gm> thanks Darkside for getting the two confused
[08:25] <fsphil> hopefully their next flight will be not just as long
[08:25] <fsphil> zero parity?
[08:26] <fsphil> aah
[08:26] <fsphil> never noticed that before
[08:27] <fsphil> should be within range of a few english stations now
[08:27] <costyn> it's really ascending fast
[08:28] <fsphil> no risk of this one floating
[08:31] <jgrahamc> There's now a trace on M6JCX's receiver in Kent. I can see the two lines of RTTY on the waterfall. Too weak for a decode.
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[08:36] <costyn> I kinda miss the live pix that we had with Tim's balloon. that was fun :)
[08:36] <fsphil> I'll be doing that (eventually)
[08:36] <jgrahamc> Did they attach a rocket to this thing, or what? It's going up so fast!
[08:37] <fsphil> suspect it'll burst before it gets above my horizon
[08:37] <costyn> chase car seems stuck in traffic, not moving very fast :)
[08:38] <jgrahamc> M6JCX's signal is fading in and out. Definitely not strong enough for a decode yet.
[08:51] <fsphil> what's the dial at?
[09:02] <fsphil> hehe, the waterfall image is overwriting itself before it loads
[09:02] <fsphil> jgrahamc, I've retuned the radio up a bit.. got two faint lines
[09:03] <fsphil> the shift is too high though
[09:05] <costyn> it's passing into French-speaking Belgium
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[09:14] <Futurity> Hi, Can someone remind me what the blue and green circles on http://spacenear.us/tracker/ mean angle wise? Thanks
[09:15] <UpuMobile> one is radio horizon and one is 5' something ..
[09:16] <Wil5on> 5 degree horizon
[09:16] <Wil5on> i dont know what that means
[09:16] <Wil5on> but thats what it is
[09:16] <UpuMobile> oh a launch
[09:18] <Wil5on> how is it getting picked up in africa?
[09:18] <Wil5on> and only there?
[09:18] <Wil5on> oh wait, i know
[09:18] <Wil5on> that receiver is at 0,0
[09:18] <Wil5on> lol
[09:18] <costyn> Wil5on: something wrong with the reported station location I'm guessing :)
[09:18] <Wil5on> yeah
[09:19] <UpuMobile> not sure I'll be able to recieve from here but I do have the radio with me
[09:19] <UpuMobile> will check when it gets above radio horizon
[09:20] <Dutch-Mill> 434.650.72
[09:23] <fsphil> you still up in the lakes UpuMobile?
[09:25] <fsphil> horizon is still a good bit away from me
[09:25] <fsphil> can't see it getting this far
[09:25] <fsphil> and naturally 434.650 is full of stuffs
[09:26] <gm> the 5 degree line means from that point, the ballooon is 5 degrees above the horizon
[09:27] <gm> the outer line is where you can pick it up from, the inner line is where you should be able to
[09:28] <Laurenceb_> launch from an airport?
[09:28] <costyn> where is the chase car going? :)
[09:29] <UpuMobile> hey fsphil yep
[09:29] <UpuMobile> have radio here but only got a whip that came with it
[09:29] <UpuMobile> and we are in a valley
[09:29] <UpuMobile> and I cba climbing to the top :)
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[09:29] <fsphil> don't blame you :)
[09:30] <UpuMobile> having a day off today :)
[09:30] <fsphil> it's quite a nice day here, I'd liked to have tried receiving this from the big hull
[09:31] <fsphil> hill*
[09:31] <UpuMobile> Shame it wasn't yesterday I'd have tried it from top of Haystacks
[09:36] <Futurity> Thanks for the circle update. Shame I'm not at home. Would have loved to try and pick up the signal
[09:39] <UpuMobile> ah on the map now
[09:39] <fsphil> the lines's right at you now
[09:40] <UpuMobile> I'll go turn the radio on
[09:42] <UpuMobile> unsurprisingly nothing
[09:45] <fsphil> same here
[09:45] <fsphil> just past 30km
[09:46] <fsphil> don't know what the dial freq. is .. it was 434.652
[09:47] <UpuMobile> Dutch-Mill said it was about 651
[09:48] <costyn> burst
[09:48] <Dave_FEV> 434.653 here USB
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[09:50] <fsphil> no signal at all here
[09:50] <fsphil> didn't get high enough
[09:50] <costyn> fsphil: it's on the way down
[09:51] <fsphil> yea
[09:51] <costyn> the GPS readings always this wonky on the way down?
[09:52] <costyn> probably because the payload is shaking a lot?
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[09:56] <nayy> can't see any tracking anymore ...
[09:57] <fsphil> that is pretty bouncy
[09:57] <fsphil> I wonder if something's got tangled
[09:58] <daveake> Does that have a big parachute? It went up nearly as fast as it's coming down!
[09:59] <Laurenceb_> can anyone see it?
[10:05] <Dutch-Mill> Y'me got signal but fldigi keeps crasching .... grr
[10:06] <fsphil> when does it crash?
[10:06] <fsphil> A lot of people are seeing dl-fldigi crashes but I've not been able to reproduce it
[10:07] <Dutch-Mill> I'm mobile on my laptop it crashes at startup, got some problems with my GPS yesterday
[10:07] <nayy> can't see any tracking signal anymore on the map since a while ...
[10:08] <costyn> nayy: still working for me; maybe reload the page?
[10:08] <fsphil> delete the .dl-fldigi folder in your profile directory
[10:08] <fsphil> sometimes that fixes the crash
[10:08] <daveake> My startup issue was fixed by removing the config file(s)
[10:08] <fsphil> though you'll need to setup your parameters again
[10:08] <fsphil> daveake, you didn't happen to keep a copy of the old profile directory?
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[10:09] <daveake> I did happen to, yes :)
[10:09] <Dutch-Mill> give it a try ...but signal is fading now
[10:09] <daveake> Want it?
[10:09] <fsphil> aah sweet, if it's no problem.
[10:09] <daveake> Just a mo
[10:10] <UpuMobile> thats a slow decent
[10:11] <fsphil> yea, it's not normally that slow until it's nearer the ground
[10:11] <daveake> fsphil - entire folder or specific files?
[10:11] <fsphil> the whole lot if it's not too big
[10:12] <daveake> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/368443/dl-fldigi-config.zip
[10:12] <nayy> where can i Find the profile directory ?
[10:12] <daveake> Only 54KB !
[10:13] <daveake> In your home folder. e.g. c:\documents and settings\donald_duck\dl-fldigi-config
[10:14] <fsphil> ta
[10:14] <daveake> I just renamed it as dl-fldigi-config.old, then started dl-fldigi. It then asks for the basic config info, and of you go.
[10:14] <daveake> off*
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[10:21] <fsphil> hmm that doesn't crash for me, though it opens up the wizard as soon as I open it so something is missing
[10:21] <fsphil> man this payload is going to fall a long way
[10:22] <x-f> anybody knows, how big is its parachute and what's the weight of the payload?
[10:22] <WillDuckworth> yeah fsphil - i reckon it'll be on a roof or in some lofty foliage
[10:23] <daveake> fsphil - strange!
[10:23] <daveake> I suspect it's to do with the audio setup.
[10:24] <daveake> Reason being that it used to run OK but didn't "hear" the audio even though other apps worked ok. So I removed the audio driver and installed a later version. Also re-installed dl-fldigi. Can't remember the exact sequence but I went round that loop a couple of times then dl-fldigi wouldn't start.
[10:36] <WillDuckworth> that parachute must be pretty hefty - those trees are getting closer
[10:36] <fsphil> wish the windows version had better logging
[10:37] <fsphil> Foret de Soignes coming up
[10:38] <fsphil> ah turning south a bit
[10:38] <fsphil> should miss that
[10:38] <costyn> lets hope
[10:38] <daveake> I had a customer in Halle, just south of there
[10:38] <costyn> at least no large bodies of water in sight :)
[10:38] <daveake> :)
[10:41] <daveake> Cloud1: Ground. Cloud2: Sea. Cloud3: Tree???
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[10:45] <staylo> Falling satellites, spontaneous human combustion and faster than light. Fun news week.
[10:45] <fsphil> third launches always land in trees ;-)
[10:46] <daveake> Oh, thanks :p
[10:46] <costyn> staylo: missed the spontaneous human combustion... link?
[10:46] <costyn> staylo: nvm found it
[10:48] <fsphil> still quite close to trees
[10:48] <fsphil> the tree:ground ratio isn't great atm
[10:48] <costyn> :)
[10:49] <costyn> got a nice parachute on it, nice & slow now
[10:54] <Laurenceb_> taking almost as long to come down as it did to go up
[10:55] <costyn> yea... can't believe how much ground it's covered since burst
[11:00] <Laurenceb_> its unpopped
[11:01] <fsphil> over a fairly built up area
[11:01] <fsphil> wait what?
[11:01] <Laurenceb_> might land in the feilds
[11:01] <Laurenceb_> maybe thermals
[11:01] <fsphil> might have landed-- could be high up terrain
[11:02] <costyn> fsphil: there are no hill at 1600m in Belgium afaik :)
[11:02] <daveake> :)
[11:02] <daveake> Hopefully it'll clear the R0
[11:02] <fsphil> haha
[11:03] <fsphil> still going
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[11:03] <fsphil> wonder why the icon changed
[11:03] <costyn> strange, did it get an updraft ? or bug in the code :)
[11:03] <fsphil> guess it never expected such a slow descent
[11:03] <costyn> ah it changed back
[11:04] <fsphil> ah, -3m/s must be it's check. slower than that and it's an asecent
[11:04] <fsphil> ascent
[11:04] <costyn> and why did it change course... winds don't change that much from 1700 to 1300m
[11:04] <daveake> wow
[11:04] <costyn> fsphil: ah ok
[11:04] <fsphil> slowest descent ever?
[11:05] <fsphil> it keeps going towards trees
[11:05] <costyn> <3 trees
[11:06] <Laurenceb_> looks like we lost reception?
[11:06] <costyn> looks like an affluent neighborhood
[11:07] <costyn> nobody from the howest team here in IRC?
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[11:09] <Laurenceb_> land is at ~100m max
[11:09] <fsphil> not far to go
[11:09] <costyn> lets hope it stays away from the train tracks
[11:10] <daveake> It seems a bit unsure about which tree to land in :p
[11:10] <fsphil> landed?
[11:10] <fsphil> not yet
[11:10] <daveake> Another 100m or so to go
[11:10] <fsphil> eek, trees
[11:10] <fsphil> lots of trees
[11:10] <daveake> bad move west lol
[11:11] <costyn> :(
[11:11] <daveake> Well at least it's not going to hit a house or car
[11:11] <costyn> chase car is close
[11:12] <Laurenceb_> oh no
[11:12] <fsphil> it's down now
[11:12] <daveake> Those trees look pretty dense
[11:12] <fsphil> definitely a tree
[11:12] <Laurenceb_> especially tall line of trees
[11:12] <Laurenceb_> about 46m tall
[11:12] <daveake> 136m altitude ... top of a tree then?
[11:13] <Laurenceb_> maybe, gps altitude is poor
[11:13] <Laurenceb_> but the land is about 90m max there
[11:13] <costyn> how are they still getting signal with tracking info from it? i guess the car is still recieving?
[11:13] <daveake> Must be
[11:14] <daveake> Gotta go ... back in an hour or so. Fingers crossed that they get this back.
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[11:14] <fsphil> trees actually help with that
[11:14] <fsphil> keeps the antenna up high
[11:15] <costyn> chase car seems to have stopped by the side of the road?
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[11:19] <x-f> it turned around and then parked in the driveway
[11:22] <costyn> maybe there's some one way streets they need to navigate around
[11:25] <costyn> there we go
[11:26] <costyn> too bad there's no altitude info from the car; then we could know how high up in the tree it is :)
[11:29] <griffonbot> Received email: DAKA Technology "[UKHAS] HOWEST"
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[11:33] <fsphil> costyn, the car is 119m asl
[11:33] <fsphil> payload is 131m
[11:33] <fsphil> 12m is a fairly long way
[11:35] <costyn> true
[11:35] <costyn> fsphil: where do you see the car alti though?
[11:35] <fsphil> raw data :)
[11:36] <fsphil> not sure why it doesn't get onto the map
[11:36] <costyn> ah
[11:39] <fsphil> my last payload was stuck 11m up a tree and it took three visits to get it out
[11:42] <costyn> fsphil: how didyou finally get it out?
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[11:46] <fsphil> a 10m pole with a knife on the end
[11:46] <fsphil> cut the cords
[11:46] <fsphil> I nearly got it down the second time, but the knife came off the end of the pole and got stuck in the tree
[11:47] <fsphil> infact it's still there now
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[11:48] <costyn> oh geez :)
[11:48] <vk5gr> ping Darkside
[11:48] <costyn> kinda reminds me I have had tools get stuck in odd places in the house and then lost more tools and magnets trying to get first tools out
[11:52] <Darkside> vk5gr: hey
[11:52] <Darkside> i'm here now
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[12:28] <daveake> How's the howest recovery going?
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[12:58] <RocketBoy> Hwoyee have just emailed to say the 1200s are now back in stock - so I'll be ordering some shortly - let me know if anyone has a specific need and I increase the order size
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[13:12] <Zuph> Morning, #highaltitude
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[13:26] <nosebleedKT> Someone donate me 45E !!
[13:27] <nosebleedKT> RocketBoy: I got your stuff
[13:27] <nosebleedKT> RocketBoy: still didnt open them though
[13:29] <nosebleedKT> I will send a mail to bill gates to send to my paypal 60%
[13:29] <nosebleedKT> 60$
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[13:29] <nosebleedKT> he got 55 billion $
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[14:38] <costyn> Any news from Howest?
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[14:48] <fsphil> no word yet
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[14:56] <rocket100> Where can I find a good yagi calculator?
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[14:57] <Dutch-Mill> http://www.vk5dj.com/
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[14:59] <fsphil> oook
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[15:11] <Laurenceb_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsjDnYxJ0bo
[15:11] <Laurenceb_> thats kind of insane
[15:11] <Laurenceb_> not sure how much its cheating
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[15:12] <Randomskk> if that's real then wtf
[15:13] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[15:14] <daveake> hmmmmm
[15:14] <Laurenceb_> lots of opportunity for creative fudging from the sound of their setup
[15:14] <Laurenceb_> apparently its from one person sitting in the fMRI machine watching video for days
[15:15] <Laurenceb_> then im guessing the model was fiddled around with for ages until it produced an impressive comparison video
[15:16] <Laurenceb_> theres no way theres even that much bandwidth out of an mri machine brain image
[15:16] <Laurenceb_> surely all the activity will be in smallish regions where the voxels overlap
[15:17] <SpeedEvil> In some ways, it's cheating, in others not.
[15:17] <daveake> Yep
[15:18] <SpeedEvil> For example, consider the very last frames
[15:18] <SpeedEvil> They both have text at the bottom in the normal overlay position, and there is a face on the right
[15:18] <SpeedEvil> That's likely to occur in a fairly large number of youtube videos
[15:19] <SpeedEvil> And it's reasonable that both 'face on the right' and 'text at the bottom' light up different parts of the brain.
[15:19] <daveake> The way we see things, you couldn't possibly generate an image from brain activity.
[15:19] <SpeedEvil> There will be bias as well.
[15:20] <daveake> What they're doing is interesting, but I can't quite see the point.
[15:20] <SpeedEvil> The point is that it's an interesting first step.
[15:20] <SpeedEvil> On a road that may lead scary places./
[15:20] <daveake> In the wrong direction IMO. But not exactly my specialist subject!
[15:20] <daveake> Just now bBought a camcorder on ebay to replace by "lost" one. Put a "best offer" on one, but the seller messed around by waiting till the last moment then putting in a counter-offer
[15:21] <daveake> So I bought a cheaper one instead :D
[15:21] <fsphil-laptop> yay
[15:22] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: Also - there is the fundamental question.
[15:22] <daveake> Bought a camera earlier this week, also by "best offer", and that was accepted within a minute. Obviously I offered too much :p
[15:22] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: Did they A) Take the training set, and then present the stimulous video
[15:22] <SpeedEvil> B) Play a few thousand videos, and look for the one that produced the best output
[15:23] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[15:23] <Laurenceb_> im not sure how real it is
[15:23] <SpeedEvil> The actual amount of data out is misleading
[15:23] <SpeedEvil> For example - again - the last headshot.
[15:23] <Laurenceb_> it sounds like a complex case of the data coming from the experimenters
[15:23] <Laurenceb_> not the experiment
[15:24] <SpeedEvil> There will be few if any videos on youtube of the headshot with the face upside down
[15:24] <SpeedEvil> Or with a face with one eye.
[15:24] <Laurenceb_> i can make a perfect image recognition thing to find faces
[15:24] <Laurenceb_> ....with one test image
[15:25] <SpeedEvil> I'd not be surprised in the last image if the total signal is well under 50 bits
[15:25] <Laurenceb_> its like neutral network AI stuff
[15:25] <Laurenceb_> it seems to work quite well until you take it into the real world
[15:25] <SpeedEvil> The frame cuts are _clearly_ bogus
[15:25] <Laurenceb_> were its not got training data
[15:26] <SpeedEvil> As they're too fast in many instances
[15:26] <SpeedEvil> It's sort-of-like eigenfaces
[15:26] <SpeedEvil> There is actually very little data in most faces.
[15:27] <SpeedEvil> Indeed, faces with lots of data in them are ugly.
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[15:28] <Laurenceb_> i think the flaw is in the model
[15:28] <SpeedEvil> It's a valid, and interesting result. (if presented as is)
[15:28] <Laurenceb_> it avoids them having to sit in the fmri for 18million seconds or whatever
[15:28] <SpeedEvil> But it's scope is very limited
[15:28] <Laurenceb_> but its open to tweaking to fit the data
[15:29] <SpeedEvil> Indeed - if that was the result that popped out when the stimulous video (one only) was presented, then it's a very interesting result.
[15:29] <Laurenceb_> its not much different from the image id thing
[15:29] <SpeedEvil> Even if some manual tweaking has been done to align the cuts.
[15:30] <Laurenceb_> Randonskk: seen the stm32f4?
[15:30] <SpeedEvil> But 'videos on youtube' is a very limited dataset constrained in useful ways from this POV
[15:30] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: shiny
[15:30] <SpeedEvil> I still want sdram + mmu though
[15:30] <Laurenceb_> *Randomskk
[15:31] <Laurenceb_> someone did video extraction from a rat eyeball a while back
[15:31] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jhmajgy7dYM&feature=feedu Suspension with too many degrees of freedom!
[15:31] <Laurenceb_> that was very impressive
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[15:32] <Laurenceb_> optic nerve-> mems interface ic -> fpga
[15:32] <SpeedEvil> Neat.
[15:32] <Laurenceb_> cant find the link
[15:32] <Laurenceb_> lots of mircobarb electrodes to stick into the nerve
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[15:40] <Laurenceb_> i was thinking stm32f4 makes software gps a bit easier
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[15:40] <Laurenceb_> still no countones instruction
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[15:41] <Laurenceb_> but its fast enough that things become less insane
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[15:54] <Randomskk> Laurenceb_: I got your ping about it
[15:54] <Randomskk> it looks super great
[15:54] <Randomskk> camera interface, tons of peripheral stuff, M4 core
[15:54] <Randomskk> now back to being unsure about gumstix vs that
[15:54] <Randomskk> it's a heck of a lot cheaper than a gumstix
[15:54] <Randomskk> but still quite a lot less power and back to embedded bare metal vs linux
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[16:10] <Scott_> Hello?
[16:10] Nick change: Scott_ -> Guest9273
[16:10] <Guest9273> Is anyone here?
[16:11] <SpeedEvil> no
[16:11] <Guest9273> :-(
[16:11] <UpuMobile> leave a message after the beep
[16:11] Action: UpuMobile beep
[16:12] <Guest9273> I got this chat from the ukhas.org website, looking for some help with planning a balloon launch. :)
[16:12] <SpeedEvil> where are you?
[16:12] <Guest9273> UK
[16:12] <SpeedEvil> Bit?
[16:12] <Guest9273> NW, near Preston/Blackburn
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[16:14] <SpeedEvil> NigeyS is in wales, and many others are around cambridge
[16:14] <Guest9273> Yeah I saw on there they have some launch sites there
[16:14] <Guest9273> I was hoping to do mine up here, but looking at the predictor here: http://habhub.org/predict/ it may end up in the sea....
[16:15] <SpeedEvil> It does that a lot of the time
[16:15] <Guest9273> does anyone mind answering some basic noob questions?
[16:15] <SpeedEvil> Try the next day.
[16:15] <Guest9273> hehe
[16:15] <Dan-K2VOL> go ahead guest
[16:16] <Guest9273> When you look at balloons, they have a weight associated with them as far as i can see
[16:16] <SpeedEvil> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=302b675909309cc2bcbca92dd583de57e4bda4f7
[16:16] <Guest9273> is that a maximum payload weight?
[16:16] <SpeedEvil> For example.
[16:16] <SpeedEvil> It's a nominal payload weight
[16:17] <SpeedEvil> For them to reach a specified altitude with.
[16:17] <SpeedEvil> You can either exceed it, and not go as high (within reason) or go lighter, and go higher
[16:17] <SpeedEvil> The above prediction is from a launch 'now' from preston
[16:17] <Guest9273> ok, and i assume there is an associated volume of helium you would need then, specific to each balloon?
[16:17] <UpuMobile> Guest9273 we have some recommendations on the front page of the UKHAS site ith regards to weight :
[16:18] <UpuMobile> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:guidelines
[16:18] <gb73d> I heard some flight data arounf 434.075 yesterday unid mode
[16:18] <UpuMobile> as light as possible is a good rule of thumb
[16:18] <SpeedEvil> Guest9273: http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=b714c24202c421b653859d242978e317a9b5954f - and as you see - tomorrow mornings launch has a similar track, but goes a lot further
[16:18] <gb73d> was there a baloon yesterday ?
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[16:19] <UpuMobile> not that I'm aware of
[16:19] <Guest9273> woah, yeah, that's basically on the coast!
[16:19] <SpeedEvil> Guest9273: And that's too close to the sea to predict if you'll get a spalsh or not
[16:19] <SpeedEvil> gb73d: decoded data?
[16:19] <Guest9273> hehe, so rent a row boat eh?
[16:19] <gb73d> nah just heard a signal
[16:20] <gb73d> unid mode waS not rtty
[16:20] <SpeedEvil> Guest9273: Generally, you look for several days in advance, when you might be able to launch, and then just before lauch, you make sure it's still reasonable. Otherwise youscrub, or put more or less gas in, to try to hit land.
[16:20] <SpeedEvil> (or add ballast)
[16:20] <Guest9273> so more gas = quicker ascent, quicker burst, comes down sooner then?
[16:20] <SpeedEvil> yes
[16:20] <UpuMobile> yep
[16:20] <Guest9273> and opposite for less
[16:20] <Guest9273> ok
[16:20] <UpuMobile> have you designed a payload yet ?
[16:21] <Guest9273> nothing beyond lists of possible parts and drawings....
[16:21] <Guest9273> that was my next question really
[16:21] <UpuMobile> concentrate on the payload first
[16:21] <UpuMobile> launching can come later, trust me the weather will change before then
[16:21] <SpeedEvil> Also lurk in here, ad watch a couple of launches
[16:22] <UpuMobile> yeah
[16:22] <Guest9273> i see a lot of you use radios, is it possible to use a phone with GPS app, or a gps unit that sends text messages? i know it will lose signal, and pick up on the way down again
[16:22] <UpuMobile> common question
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[16:22] <UpuMobile> and generally the answer is yes you can
[16:22] <SpeedEvil> Possible, but risky
[16:22] <UpuMobile> but you'll get more accuracy and a much higher chance of recovery using radio
[16:22] <SpeedEvil> We've had >90%(?) of payloads tracked to a definate location with radio.
[16:22] <Guest9273> sounds daft but you can't use phones on planes, and it's up there at that altitude, thought i best ask
[16:22] <Guest9273> :)
[16:23] <SpeedEvil> Sometimes that location isn't retrievable - for example up a big tree, or in the sea
[16:23] <UpuMobile> you can use it but it won't work above a certain altititude
[16:23] <Guest9273> yeah the sea is my only main concern
[16:23] <UpuMobile> you'll need a amateur radio really
[16:23] <gb73d> ok so no baloon yesters, maybe it was a satellite then , thanks
[16:23] <SpeedEvil> Oh - tracker says there was a launch today gb73d.
[16:23] <Guest9273> this what my thoughts for looking at a gps unit that sends SMS or a mobile phone
[16:23] <UpuMobile> not sure gb73d something local
[16:24] <UpuMobile> was a launch this morning
[16:24] <SpeedEvil> Though it was from france
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[16:24] <SpeedEvil> Guest9273: http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[16:24] Nick change: GW8RAK_ -> GW8RAK
[16:24] <gb73d> ok, this was about midday yesterday sounded like a digital mode pulsing noise
[16:25] <SpeedEvil> Guest9273: The antennas are recievers
[16:25] <UpuMobile> Guest9273 firstly I'd go get a proper IRC client like mIRC fo windows, set it and lurk on here
[16:25] <SpeedEvil> Guest9273: Run by people in the channel. (mostly)
[16:25] <UpuMobile> secondly break the project down into steps
[16:25] <UpuMobile> container
[16:25] <UpuMobile> computer etc
[16:25] <SpeedEvil> Guest9273: They all pick up radio signals from baloons, and relay to the tracker
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[16:25] <SpeedEvil> click the tracker link, then move the mouse over the blue line
[16:26] <SpeedEvil> You can see that in the middle of the flight (click a point on the line) it was being recieved both in england and france
[16:26] <Guest9273> yeah as you move along
[16:26] <Guest9273> is that an antenna down in Africa?
[16:27] <Guest9273> Ah it's in the sea actually.
[16:27] <SpeedEvil> It's at 0,0
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[16:27] <SpeedEvil> Some people don't enter their coords right
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[16:30] <Guest9273> Do you have to buy mIRC?
[16:31] <SpeedEvil> There are any number of free IRC clients.
[16:31] <Guest9273> Can you recommend a good one?
[16:32] <SpeedEvil> Are you on windows?
[16:32] <UpuMobile> mIRC is probably one of the betterones for windows
[16:33] <Guest9273> yeah win 7
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[16:35] <Guest9273> think i'm in
[16:35] <Newbz> yup
[16:35] <Newbz> hello :)
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[16:36] <Newbz> Anyone had any experience with something like this? http://www.amazon.co.uk/GPS-Tracker-with-SMS-mode/dp/B001F26PS8/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
[16:36] <SpeedEvil> In principle, it works, but there are issues.
[16:36] <SpeedEvil> Some GPS chipsets malfunction over 18km
[16:36] <SpeedEvil> And require a power cyucle to come back
[16:36] <Newbz> Ah right, ok.
[16:37] <Newbz> Well, that's not great.....
[16:37] <Newbz> :)
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[16:37] <SpeedEvil> You can only rely on mobile up to maybe 100m or so, it may wokr a fair bit higher than that, but it depends on where your local towers were, and how well the operator has aimed them at the ground.
[16:38] <UpuMobile> there is a list of known good GPS modules at www.arhab.org and on our wiki at ukhas.org.uk
[16:38] <SpeedEvil> So, especially if it lands on the ground upside down, you may have 20s to re-lock, and send the SMS
[16:38] <Newbz> Do you mean using GPRS to locate it?
[16:38] <Newbz> Or sending the GPS location via SMS?
[16:38] <SpeedEvil> Even areas with good coverage do not have good coverage right on the ground, especially in dips
[16:38] <SpeedEvil> same
[16:38] <SpeedEvil> It's the same transmitter.
[16:39] <Newbz> So that uses GPS to get co-ords, and then send them via SMS, but it may have no signal when landing?
[16:39] <SpeedEvil> yes
[16:40] <SpeedEvil> No mobile signal
[16:40] <SpeedEvil> It wil probably work most of the time. (if the GPS does not lockup)
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[16:42] <Newbz> just looking through that list now
[16:43] <Newbz> so they all look like receivers, would you use those with a radio?
[16:43] <nosebleedKT> Hi, is this a good battery for use in habs?
[16:43] <nosebleedKT> http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/lithium-ion-polymer-battery-pack-6a-p-602.html?cPath=178_183
[16:49] <SpeedEvil> Most people use non-rechargeable lithium AA
[16:49] <SpeedEvil> But that looks fine too
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[17:02] <UpuMobile> nosebleedKT check they work to -40'c
[17:03] <UpuMobile> also you might find Energizer Ultimate Lithiums lighter
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[17:08] <nosebleedKT> they work up to -20
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[17:12] <Newbz> Anyone know any good GPS tracking apps on droid?
[17:12] <Newbz> That can send co-ords via SMS too*
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[17:15] <Newbz> Think my interwebs just died, am I still here?
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[17:24] <SpeedEvil> no
[17:24] <SpeedEvil> (to both)
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[17:26] <Newbz> ok
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[17:27] <nosebleedKT> Did anyone here use Lipoly rechargable batteries in his mission?
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[18:08] <Hiena> nosebleedKT: Define mission.
[18:22] <nosebleedKT> Hiena: flight
[18:23] <Zuph> nosebleedKT: Have to be careful there. A lot of lipo batteries don't work when frozen.
[18:24] <Newbz> Is there a site that can do flight predictions on historic data.
[18:24] <Newbz> So i can check different months to see when would be best?
[18:25] <Zuph> In any case, they're more expensive than primary (non-rechargeable) lithium batteries that won't freeze.
[18:29] <jcoxon> Zuph, indeed but you are restricted in range
[18:29] <jcoxon> lots of different sizes of lipos
[18:29] <jcoxon> :-)
[18:31] <Zuph> jcoxon: We're going transatlantic without lipos :-p
[18:31] <Zuph> If you're doing the standard up/down, primary lithiums are almost a no-brainer.
[18:32] <Newbz> Does anyone know if there is a historic prediction calculator?
[18:33] <Newbz> Or what month is likely 'best' to launch with the least wind?
[18:33] <Zuph> Newbz: There certainly isn't one that will give you results worth using. It's barely reliable to predict winds hour-to-hour, let alone month-to-month.
[18:34] <jcoxon> Zuph, oh yeah
[18:34] <jcoxon> but when you are going super light my 85mAh is perfect
[18:35] <Zuph> Newbz: Where are you located? If you're trying to avoid the ocean or a major geographic obsticle, it might be easier to go for a drive.
[18:35] <jcoxon> Newbz, i'd build your payload first
[18:35] <jcoxon> then look for a launch window
[18:36] <jcoxon> much more reliable to have a working payload then rushing it through
[18:36] <daveake> And don't underfill if the prediction is anywhere near the coast :p
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[18:37] <jcoxon> looks like my radio didnt' et any strings
[18:37] <jcoxon> probably because of its terrible antenna
[18:38] <daveake> Apparently it had some faint lines but not enough to decode
[18:38] <daveake> I tried but not a sniff of a signal
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[18:40] <daveake> Was the payload retrieved from the tree?
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[18:42] <Newbz> I'm in the UK, North West near Preston and Blackburn
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[18:42] <Newbz> I was thinking of a Southport or Blackpool launch if it's going to head NE
[18:42] <Newbz> Maybe even North Wales if it's going to go a long way
[18:43] <Newbz> I don't fancy a swim in the North Sea...
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[18:51] <staylo> Newbz: Let me know if you end up planning a North Wales launch, that's where I'm based.
[18:53] <Newbz> It depends what the wind direction would be in May/June/July next year
[18:53] <Newbz> all the data I can find is only relevant to now really
[18:54] <Newbz> But when I plan a launch I will let everyone here know :)
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[18:54] <jcoxon> Newbz, well it'll change considerable each week
[18:54] <jcoxon> but with mainly a NE trajectory
[18:54] <Newbz> So is there no 'seasonal' change or anything?
[18:55] <jcoxon> there is
[18:55] <jcoxon> but
[18:55] <jcoxon> the local changes are considerable
[18:55] <Newbz> So it would be a case of checking regularly a day or two before, and then on the morning of the launch?
[18:55] <SpeedEvil> Newbz: You need permission for the launchsite.
[18:55] <jcoxon> yeah start 4 days before hand
[18:56] <jcoxon> and get a long launch window so that you have lots of options
[18:56] <Newbz> Yeah I was just looking up how to request permission from the CAA is it?
[18:56] <Newbz> and a NOTAM?
[18:56] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[18:56] <Newbz> Hi :)
[18:56] <jcoxon> yeah there is a form on the ukhas wiki
[18:57] <Newbz> How long before do i need to do that?
[18:57] <Randomskk> months
[18:57] <Newbz> eeessh
[18:57] <Newbz> and is it for a specific location?
[18:57] <Randomskk> yes
[18:57] <Newbz> So I need to pick and hope kind of thing
[18:57] <Randomskk> and time
[18:57] <Newbz> hehe ok
[18:57] <Randomskk> usually you'd get a weekend
[18:57] <Lunar_Lander> so did HOWEST fly? and did it land in a train station?
[18:58] <Lunar_Lander> sorry not a station
[18:58] <Lunar_Lander> the map was irritating
[19:00] <daveake> Looked like it landed in a tall tree. I had to leave then. Not heard any updates since.
[19:01] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[19:01] <daveake> Newbz: On your application you can ask for backup dates in case the first date turns out not to be suitable.
[19:03] <Newbz> That's ok then :)
[19:04] <Newbz> I need to start planning a payload then, or more importantly what I will use to track it!
[19:05] <daveake> Have you read about the 434MHz radio tracking / NTX2 / dl-fldigi yet?
[19:06] <Newbz> I have seen a lot of mention of radio tracking, but don't really know anything on the topic
[19:06] <Newbz> I was looking at one of the small devices that sends GPS co=ords via SMS on a timer or a smartphone
[19:10] <daveake> Those need GSM coverage which you won't get at altitude. So with those all you can do is wait for it to land then hope it's got a signal! Much better to use the radio system. You put a small transmitter in your payload, connected to a small flight computer with GPS. The computer reformats the GPS data. If you announce the launch then lots of us will tune in to the transmissions, uploading the position in real time so you know where the payload
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[19:12] <Dan-K2VOL> Newbz you can use a FindMeSpot, or a Delorme InReach if you've got money to burn
[19:13] <Newbz> Yeah I found out before that they lose phone signal up there
[19:13] <Newbz> (Sorry for delay reading up at same time)
[19:14] <Newbz> What kind of hardware (and cost) is associated with the radio approach?
[19:15] <daveake> Also some people have found they take up to 30 mins to get a lock again after the flight. Mine was OK - I got 3 readings from it on the way down, before it crashed into the North Sea :p
[19:15] <Randomskk> probably do it inside £100 ish? for a lot of people, making the flight computer, radio, etc is the big/main/fun part of the project
[19:15] <daveake> + receiver which is another £100, and aerials at £10-£50
[19:16] <Newbz> With the GSM based devices, I assume you would have signal on the way up for a few thousand feet and again a few thousand before hitting ground on the way down?
[19:16] <Newbz> Or maybe less, but, there would be a ceiling at which you lose signal.
[19:16] <SpeedEvil> There is.
[19:17] <SpeedEvil> The cellphone atennas are pointed at the ground
[19:17] <SpeedEvil> As there are no customers in the sky
[19:17] <SpeedEvil> So they radiate upwards as little as they can
[19:17] <SpeedEvil> Exactly what the ceiling is will depend on how well the twoer has been setup, and wher e you are in relation to it
[19:18] <daveake> I got messages at ~1000m and ~500m. Mine didn't send altitude so those are guesses based on position and the radio data.
[19:18] <SpeedEvil> The better the setup, the less goes skywards
[19:18] <SpeedEvil> It might be 2000m, it might be 200m
[19:18] <Newbz> OK. So I would be relying on it grabbing something on the way down.
[19:19] <Newbz> http://www.amazon.co.uk/GPS-Tracker-with-SMS-mode/dp/B001F26PS8/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
[19:19] <Newbz> I was thinking that, or a cheap Samsung like the Europa running droid with a tracker app.
[19:19] <daveake> Yes, and if you don't get anything after it lands, then you could have quite a large radius to search
[19:19] <Newbz> Aslo, I could then ring the phone, and get an audible noise when trying to find it!
[19:20] <Newbz> Assuming it had signal :)
[19:20] <SpeedEvil> You can't assume that - that's the problem
[19:20] <Newbz> Well if it didn't have signal, all would be lost :)
[19:20] <SpeedEvil> Even in good coverage areas, coverage actually on teh ground is lots worse than coverage when you're standing up
[19:20] <SpeedEvil> In marginal ones - well...
[19:20] <Newbz> eeeps
[19:21] <daveake> It makes no noise. You call it; it picks up the call; it texts you back the position. When it works that is. I bought one and used it twice before it was "lost at sea". I wouldn't buy another.
[19:21] <Newbz> I was thinking more the droid phone to call it up.
[19:21] <Newbz> I would set that unit on a 5-10 min timer.
[19:21] <Newbz> In the hope it would pickup on the way down and let me know.
[19:21] <daveake> If you can go the radio route, that's much more reliable.
[19:21] <Newbz> So did yours work the 2 times you used it?
[19:22] <Newbz> I will certainly consider it, but me and a couple of mates decided to do this more for a challenge than anything and on a tight budget
[19:22] <daveake> Nope. Didn't work at all the first time. Got me 2 positions second time, but it was comfortable out to sea at the time. I had it as a backup for the radio.
[19:22] <Newbz> a cheap second hand droid phone with GPS is easy to come by for £30 - £40
[19:23] <Newbz> hmmm that's not encouraging....
[19:23] <jcoxon> there is actually software for linking an ntx2 to an android phone
[19:23] <jcoxon> so you can do both :-)
[19:23] <Newbz> ntx2, is that the GPS device?
[19:23] <Newbz> or the computer?
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> are you concerned about the imminent UARS descent?
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> Newbz : the transmitter
[19:24] <Newbz> doh!
[19:24] <Newbz> so the droid could use GSM and radio?
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[19:37] <Newbz> What do you use to take the input of the GPS chip and put it through the NTX2? An Arduino is it?
[19:38] <daveake> Arduinos are popular. Pretty much any small processor board will do it.
[19:40] <Newbz> Found a guide for an Arduino Uno
[19:40] <Newbz> would you rate them?
[19:41] <Randomskk> arduino is almost certainly the easiest cheapest solution
[19:45] <Newbz> £20.58 a fair price?
[19:46] Action: jonquark is really pleased with the mbed he's playing with
[19:47] <Newbz> o.0
[19:51] <Newbz> off for tea
[19:51] <Newbz> l8rs
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[20:18] <gm> http://svn.stackunderflow.com/svn/public/dj-x11-util/
[20:18] <gm> so far
[20:29] <Laurenceb> http://hackaday.com/2011/09/23/octocopter-will-someday-kill-someone/
[20:29] <Laurenceb> hell yeah
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[21:13] <SpeedEvil> Disc loading is all wrong though
[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[21:14] Action: fsphil-laptop is in a tent in a field :)
[21:14] <Randomskk> nice, where are you?
[21:14] <Randomskk> and is it raining? :P
[21:15] <Randomskk> (and why on earth did you bring your laptop camping?)
[21:15] <Laurenceb> Randomskk: seen the stm32f4?
[21:15] <Randomskk> Laurenceb: yup! uhm:
[21:15] <fsphil-laptop> lol, dry but a bit windy
[21:15] <Laurenceb> its has fpu - that changes everything XD
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil-laptop : ohh danger!
[21:15] <Randomskk> yea, I replied to you a bit up
[21:15] <Randomskk> it looks great!
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander> what if UARS comes down?
[21:15] <Randomskk> Cortex M4!
[21:15] <Randomskk> camera interface!
[21:15] <Laurenceb> Randomskk: openpilot 16 state ekf will run at 10khz
[21:16] <BrainDamage> does it have a memory management unit?
[21:16] <Randomskk> !
[21:16] <Laurenceb> BrainDamage: no
[21:16] <BrainDamage> baah :/
[21:16] <Laurenceb> its a microcontroller XD
[21:16] <Randomskk> Laurenceb: my gumstix plans are suddenly in flux
[21:16] <Laurenceb> yeah
[21:16] <BrainDamage> yeah, a "micro" with hardware ethernet, usb, camera, etc
[21:16] <Laurenceb> its pretty much laughs at any kalman filter
[21:16] <Randomskk> an stm32f4 is a huge amount lighter and cheaper
[21:16] <Randomskk> a /huge/ amount cheaper
[21:17] <Randomskk> and if it has a camera interface I could conceivably do my computer vision on it
[21:17] <Randomskk> it still falls a long way short of 600MHz with DSP though
[21:17] <Laurenceb> that ssounds like a bit of a challenge
[21:17] <Randomskk> and falls a long way short of 256MB RAM + 256MB flash
[21:17] <Laurenceb> id go for a dedicated guidance micro
[21:17] <Randomskk> but like, tens of dollars vs hundreds
[21:17] <Randomskk> yea I think I'd have one do mission&vision and one do navigation&stabalisatio
[21:17] <Randomskk> +n
[21:18] <Laurenceb> that sounds more sane
[21:18] <Randomskk> still smaller, lighter than gumstix
[21:18] <Randomskk> and tons cheaper
[21:18] <Randomskk> plus now my entire thing is stm32 based
[21:18] <Randomskk> six of the fuckers
[21:18] <Laurenceb> lol
[21:19] <Randomskk> would probably look pretty funky.
[21:19] <Randomskk> anyway still gotta do motor controller first - going to try really hard to get that working by christmas
[21:19] <Laurenceb> im still working on i2c interrupt
[21:19] <Laurenceb> almost done now
[21:19] <Laurenceb> itd still be useful on f4 tho
[21:20] <Randomskk> yea
[21:20] <Randomskk> what's the clock up to on the f4s?
[21:21] <Laurenceb> 168MHz
[21:21] <Laurenceb> i was just playing about trying to design some SDR GPS thumb2 asm
[21:21] <Randomskk> 168MHz, wow
[21:21] <Randomskk> and FPU
[21:21] <Randomskk> it's taking names and kicking arse at this point
[21:22] <Laurenceb> looks like it needs 10Mcycles/channel
[21:22] <Laurenceb> annoyingly the countones uses half the cycles
[21:22] <SpeedEvil> I was trying to do some bitslicing code on the stm32
[21:22] <SpeedEvil> It diddn't look quite implausible
[21:23] <SpeedEvil> I gave up at the point when I was wondering if you could use partial small correlates added together to optimise
[21:25] <SpeedEvil> So you might calculate signal xor 10001010 - and then add the result of that to different bins where it occurs in multiple places on different sats
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[21:26] <rocket100> how are people able to receive signals from a great distance using just a 10mw radiometrix ntx2?
[21:26] <Laurenceb> yeah
[21:27] <Laurenceb> hallam got this working on x86
[21:27] <Laurenceb> -the loop filters
[21:27] <fsphil-laptop> with nice sensitive radios rocket100
[21:27] <SpeedEvil> And decent antennas.
[21:27] <Laurenceb> i integrated it into the kia borre matlab code
[21:27] <SpeedEvil> (sometimes)
[21:27] <fsphil-laptop> and decent antennas
[21:27] <fsphil-laptop> haha
[21:27] <Laurenceb> didnt decrease performance much at all
[21:27] <Laurenceb> compared to float for everything
[21:28] <rocket100> would a yagi antenna work?
[21:28] <SpeedEvil> yes
[21:28] <rocket100> Where can I find out how to build a yagi?
[21:29] <Laurenceb> you just XOR with a precomputed PRN lookup table and a local osc
[21:29] <fsphil-laptop> how far away are you planning rocket100? up close (<100km) a simple whip will do
[21:29] <Laurenceb> the local osc is easy as the frequencies out of the front end ics are <10kz
[21:29] <Laurenceb> *Khz
[21:29] <Laurenceb> PRN is 1Msps is more challenging, hence the lookup bitfield thing
[21:30] <rocket100> probably not over 100km, but I'm kinda curious how I would receive over 100km.
[21:32] <rocket100> What kind of radio would I need to pickup 10mw in the 100km range?
[21:33] <fsphil-laptop> anything that can receive SSB on that frequency
[21:33] <fsphil-laptop> yaesu ft-817 is popular, though overkill if you're not doing amateur radio too :)
[21:34] <fsphil-laptop> there are others but my internet is too slow to find 'em
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[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> hi DanielRichman
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> and Dan-K2VOL
[21:35] <Dan-K2VOL> hey kevin
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil-laptop : why are you in a tent btw?
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> Dan-K2VOL : did I tell you what happened to the insurance thing?
[21:35] <Dan-K2VOL> no, what happened
[21:36] <rocket100> Is there something special about the ntx2 that makes it able to transmit very far on 10mw or is it just the receiver?
[21:36] <fsphil-laptop> camping in a forest park Lunar_Lander, not too far from home
[21:36] <fsphil-laptop> mostly the receiver and antennas we use
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[21:37] <Dan-K2VOL> rocket100 the receiver antenna will allow you to ignore the ground-based noise on that freq, and it's also the physics, that radio frequency will transmit basically line of sight, and that's a long way
[21:37] <fsphil-laptop> not using FM helps too
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil-laptop : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MssUXc-hDeQ&feature=related
[21:37] <fsphil-laptop> just managing irc Lunar_Lander :) video streaming is wishful thinking
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> Dan-K2VOL : the university of applied sciences in Muenster has a HF lab and they do fly balloons for B.Sc. thesises and so on and they work with the weather office
[21:38] <Lunar_Lander> and I know the professor as I met him at the Ham Radio 2010
[21:38] <Lunar_Lander> and he said that we could probably make a cooperation
[21:38] <Lunar_Lander> xD ok fsphil-
[21:38] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil-laptop
[21:39] <rocket100> So could I use a less powerful radio on the receiving end if I had a good antenna?
[21:40] <fsphil-laptop> not sure what you mean by less powerful receiver
[21:40] <rocket100> *less sensitive
[21:41] <fsphil-laptop> possibly- though if a radio does ssb on 434mhz it will tend to be pretty sensitive
[21:42] <fsphil-laptop> there's the old yaesu ft-790 - can sometimes be got on ebay for a good price
[21:42] <fsphil-laptop> and there's scanners too but I can't remember any model numbers
[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> Dan-K2VOL : did you copy?
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[21:46] <rocket100> Where can I find out how to build a yagi antenna?
[21:49] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.mattltm.co.uk/2010/05/25/12-element-yagi-for-70cm/
[21:49] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.mattltm.co.uk/2010/05/09/41-balun-for-folded-dipole/
[21:51] <Dan-K2VOL> ah yes Lunar_Lander, sorry had to step away
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> np
[21:52] <fsphil-laptop> battery's nearly out
[21:52] <fsphil-laptop> night all :)
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[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOI_2IPZyNQ&feature=related
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[22:07] Nick change: pod -> dum
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[22:36] <nosebleedKT> gnite all
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[00:00] --- Sat Sep 24 2011