highaltitude.log.20110920

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[07:55] <gm> yay, i have the dj-x11
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[09:41] <TimZaman> HAHAHA
[09:41] <TimZaman> OMG
[09:41] <TimZaman> AHAHA whyyyyy
[09:41] <TimZaman> im on hackaday hahahahahahahaha
[09:42] <TimZaman> geeeez fsphil you are fast!
[09:42] <TimZaman> do you have some ding-dongs installed or something?!
[09:43] <WillDuckworth> cool, link here: http://hackaday.com/2011/09/19/space-camera-streams-data-during-flight/
[09:43] <TimZaman> i upload a video saying i use "fswebcam" and *bam* you've commented on it. i'm on hackaday for 12 hours without knowing and *bam* he's in the comments
[09:50] <TimZaman> doh they think i used gprs as data tranmission =)
[09:52] <fsphil> TimZaman, someone else spotted last night and posted the link in channel :)
[09:52] <TimZaman> o rly
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[09:52] <fsphil> BrainDamage, caught it within a few minutes :)
[09:52] <TimZaman> geez
[09:52] <TimZaman> is it a popular site?
[09:52] <fsphil> I think so - I have it on my rss feeds, check it each morning
[09:53] <TimZaman> okay
[09:53] <TimZaman> pretty neat articles yeah
[09:53] <TimZaman> 1000 visits from the site, pretty substantial.
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[10:07] <fsphil> gprs from a hab would be useful, shame it wouldn't work
[10:07] <fsphil> and likely totally illegal :)
[10:07] <costyn_> fsphil: long range wifi wouldn't be practical either I'm guessing right?
[10:08] <fsphil> path loss at 2.4ghz is quite high, but people have managed pretty massive ranges with wifi
[10:10] <fsphil> big dish antennas are fairly cheap too
[10:10] <fsphil> but good aiming would be critical
[10:10] <costyn_> fsphil: but the aiming would be a bitch :)
[10:10] <nosebleedKT> I have done 45km link with parabolic dishes and 200mw :)
[10:10] <fsphil> sweet
[10:10] <costyn_> nosebleedKT: cool!
[10:10] <nosebleedKT> 48mbps bandwidth
[10:10] <fsphil> 2km is my personal record so far
[10:10] <SamSilver> how fast was the 200mw moving nosebleedKT
[10:10] <griffonbot> @TheArduinoGuy: UKHAS Conference 2011, 15th October 2011 in London http://t.co/sUgYssQr via @lanyrd #ukhas #hab #highaltitude #arduino [http://twitter.com/TheArduinoGuy/status/116091948619673600]
[10:12] <TimZaman> someone said that if you used GPRS in a high altitude balloon, you would mess up the entire GPRS cellphone system?
[10:12] <TimZaman> Weird story if you ask me.
[10:14] <nosebleedKT> SamSilver,fsphil: http://imagebin.org/173186
[10:15] <TimZaman> nosebleedKT: whats that, spain? greece?
[10:15] <costyn_> TimZaman: sounds unlikely, can't be that easy for someone to fuck it all up for everyone else
[10:15] <SamSilver> nosebleedKT: the highest one is 900mhz?
[10:15] <SamSilver> big round one in the middle is 2.4gh
[10:15] <TimZaman> costyn_: yeah, they really wouldnt respond to my hypothetical "what if someone had its cellphone on in an airplane" To that they responded "its a faraday cage". To that i responded, no it's not, your GPS still works there (it does). To that they did not respond.
[10:16] <nosebleedKT> TimZaman: greece of course :)
[10:16] <SamSilver> what are the diamond ones also 2.4?
[10:16] <TimZaman> nosebleedKT: thought it looked mediteranian.
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[10:16] <nosebleedKT> Its the way to mediteranian
[10:16] <nosebleedKT> from north greece
[10:17] <nosebleedKT> SamSilver: what?
[10:17] <SamSilver> in the picture
[10:17] <SamSilver> the tall one is 900 ?
[10:17] <SamSilver> the big round 2.4
[10:17] <nosebleedKT> no, 5ghz
[10:17] <costyn_> TimZaman: indeed; and myself and other skydivers regularly take cell-phones with 3G and GPRS up to 4km without bringing civilization to a halt
[10:17] <nosebleedKT> 802.11a
[10:17] <SamSilver> and the two diamond 2.4 as well?
[10:18] <nosebleedKT> i think they work both at 2.4 and 5
[10:18] <nosebleedKT> no I dont have my rooftop like that.
[10:18] <nosebleedKT> I have stopped that station
[10:18] <nosebleedKT> I now sell all those components :)
[10:19] <costyn_> TimZaman: apparenty it doesn't make the providers happy because multiple towers recieve the same signal strength from your mobile, but it doesn't break anything ground-side
[10:19] <nosebleedKT> TimZaman 433mhz frequency is open in europe?
[10:19] <TimZaman> nosebleedKT: oh yes.
[10:20] <nosebleedKT> what modulation uses?
[10:20] <nosebleedKT> to send the pics
[10:20] <TimZaman> fm?
[10:21] <TimZaman> usb
[10:21] <nosebleedKT> ok
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[10:21] <nosebleedKT> baudrate?
[10:21] <TimZaman> 1200
[10:21] <TimZaman> that'll be the max for now
[10:21] <TimZaman> fsphil: what do you think of two modules on same antenna?
[10:22] <fsphil> Worth a try - but could cause problems
[10:23] <fsphil> the modules could interact
[10:23] <TimZaman> okay
[10:23] <TimZaman> diodes wont help :)?
[10:24] <TimZaman> im making a, in my opinion, pretty cool "Shield" for the PandaBoard.
[10:24] <TimZaman> whats' cool is that the pandaboard has got a usb hub for four, but only has two usb perhipials. So.. the other two usb ports are actually on the extension connector!
[10:25] <fsphil> there may be some kind of RF mixer device
[10:25] <fsphil> that's handy
[10:25] <TimZaman> RF mixer you say?
[10:25] <fsphil> may not even exist
[10:26] <fsphil> might be worth asking radiometrix about that
[10:26] <TimZaman> RAdiometrix dont like no foreigners
[10:27] <costyn_> won't you need either more power to have more bandwidth (to increase s/n ratio), or send over multiple frequencies?
[10:27] <TimZaman> costyn_: im going to try to send over multiple transmitters
[10:27] <fsphil> two modules, effectively 2x power
[10:27] <TimZaman> fsphil: though im really going to think of something for the "inpainting"
[10:27] <TimZaman> because.. if the "odd" module fails, i will have swiss cheese
[10:28] <TimZaman> fsphil: do you have a portable?
[10:28] <fsphil> true
[10:28] <costyn_> TimZaman: I guess you need to be able to monitor if one has failed? and then send everyting over the one working transmitter?
[10:28] <fsphil> portable radio?
[10:29] <TimZaman> handheld
[10:29] <TimZaman> im looking for one
[10:29] <fsphil> yea, got a vx7r
[10:29] <TimZaman> costyn_: impossible, it's one way
[10:29] <TimZaman> two way makes it four times as complex
[10:30] <TimZaman> thats also why we use forward-error-correction
[10:30] <costyn_> TimZaman: ok
[10:30] <TimZaman> that assumes that it has to fix some stuff in advance and sends with it a medic-pack
[10:30] <fsphil> you could transmit one image per module
[10:31] <fsphil> like the Huygens probe, only where the second channel works :)
[10:32] <TimZaman> wow huygens probe. too cool for school
[10:32] <TimZaman> why did it shut down?
[10:32] <TimZaman> 90 mins after landing?
[10:32] <fsphil> battery ran out
[10:32] <TimZaman> fsphil: no i just want fast transmission
[10:32] <TimZaman> Battery ran out!
[10:32] <TimZaman> OMG they forgot to charge it, didnt they
[10:33] <fsphil> actually no, the cassini probe just went out of range
[10:33] <fsphil> it was designed to last only until it got to the surface, anything else was a bonus
[10:33] <TimZaman> too bad
[10:33] <fsphil> they didn't expect it to survive the landing
[10:33] <fsphil> well they sorta did
[10:33] <fsphil> but it wasn't the main aim
[10:34] <TimZaman> huygens is from the hague :)
[10:34] <fsphil> it has two transmitters, but only one receiver on Cassini was switched on
[10:34] <TimZaman> which is next to Delft.
[10:34] <fsphil> so half the data was lost sadly
[10:34] <TimZaman> doh
[10:34] <TimZaman> yeah and then inpainting is not really feasable
[10:35] <fsphil> sending two images simultaneously will be fine
[10:35] <TimZaman> hmmmmm
[10:35] <TimZaman> vx7r seems like a good module
[10:36] <TimZaman> 5 watt!
[10:36] <fsphil> not sure how the dl-fldigi's ssdv viewer will handle it, but the website will update just fine
[10:36] <TimZaman> fsphil: yeah i think itll get an error
[10:36] <TimZaman> but we'll fix that by then if it occurs
[10:36] <fsphil> I suppose if it's only listening to one channel all the time it'll display fine
[10:36] <TimZaman> at least you get your memory leak fixed :)
[10:37] <TimZaman> because i'll be sending the live images live during a conference :)
[10:37] <fsphil> yea I really gotta look at that. don't want to be ddos'ed again :)
[10:37] <TimZaman> ddossed by me, you mean :)
[10:38] <fsphil> my flight sent so few packets it didn't cause any trouble
[10:39] <TimZaman> can the vx7r be used as a listener?
[10:39] <TimZaman> (=hooked up to dlfidigi)
[10:40] <fsphil> it can't do USB
[10:40] <TimZaman> what is a double VFO
[10:40] <fsphil> it can receive two channels at once
[10:40] <fsphil> handy for satellites
[10:41] <Darkside> you know you could probably receive using FM
[10:41] <TimZaman> i got one here for E60 with "one deaf VFO"
[10:41] <Darkside> look for the pulse as the frequency changes
[10:41] <fsphil> would be iffy
[10:41] <Darkside> yeah
[10:41] <fsphil> I suspect the range would be tiny
[10:42] <Darkside> mm
[10:42] <Darkside> well, i could hear my payload on FM when we were below it
[10:42] <TimZaman> does it have a big brother module?
[10:42] <TimZaman> Hahah the brochure has got a man, using his walkie talkie underneath a waterfall. Now thats a convincing situation
[10:43] <fsphil> mine has an annoying click when the squelsh opens
[10:43] <fsphil> not sure if it's just mine or something they all do
[10:44] <fsphil> you got a mention on the funcube mailing list Darkside, someone posted a screenshot of them receiving the horus telemetry
[10:45] <Darkside> o rly
[10:45] <fsphil> http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/funcube/message/4130
[10:45] <Darkside> i'll reply
[10:46] <Darkside> haha i know him
[10:46] <Darkside> he's friends wirth my dad
[10:46] <TimZaman> that looks like a good signal
[10:47] <TimZaman> would be even better if you'd attach some reed solomon coding there ;)
[10:47] <Darkside> that guy has some ridiculous phased yagis
[10:47] <fsphil> I was going to ask about his antenna :)
[10:48] <Darkside> that was about a 300km path i think
[10:48] <Darkside> lemme check
[10:48] <TimZaman> fsphil: know a USB handheld? prefereably yaesu?
[10:48] <Darkside> 363km
[10:50] <fsphil> TimZaman, yaesu don't make one. there is one but I can't remember the brand name
[10:50] <Darkside> get a secondhand Icom R10
[10:50] <TimZaman> yeah i guess it'd be kind of strange if there was one.
[10:51] <Darkside> i don'tknow of any handheld transceivers that do USB though
[10:51] <Darkside> scanners, yes
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[10:51] <TimZaman> yeah if im buying one for 300E, i might as well buy another 817ND
[10:52] <fsphil> Kenwood TH-F7E
[10:55] <TimZaman> fsphil: so it doesnt really matter that one VFO is deaf.. right
[10:56] <Darkside> depends which VFO
[10:56] <fsphil> Darkside, very close. just noticed 364.5km in his screenshot in dl-fldigi.
[10:56] <Darkside> heh
[10:56] <Darkside> oh it does that?
[10:56] <fsphil> yea, newer versions show bearing and distance
[10:56] <fsphil> if the payload is configured properly
[10:57] <TimZaman> fsphil: how about including vertical "bearing" for pointing the yagi
[10:57] <fsphil> TimZaman, that I don't know. I'm not sure if both vfo's cover all the same frequencies
[10:57] <TimZaman> fsphil: btw, my altitude problem
[10:57] <fsphil> angle above horizon, yea
[10:57] <TimZaman> i dont get what went wrong
[10:58] <TimZaman> i just get the altitude
[10:58] <TimZaman> then
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[10:58] <TimZaman> ALT=`echo $ALT | cut -d '.' -f1` #Round off altitude
[10:59] <fsphil> what do you do with $ALT
[10:59] <fsphil> after that
[11:02] <TimZaman> all scripts are here
[11:02] <TimZaman> http://www.timzaman.nl/?p=1884&lang=en
[11:02] <TimZaman> it's the "catloop.sh" script
[11:06] <Darkside> fsphil: whats that US HAB yahoo group?
[11:07] <fsphil> gpsl
[11:08] <fsphil> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gpsl/
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[11:09] <Darkside> one post by dan about the launch :P
[11:09] <Darkside> we'll have to send them all the logs
[11:10] <Darkside> we've got #5 place in the duration records
[11:10] <Darkside> the longest latex flight ever probably
[11:10] <TimZaman> yup pretty insane
[11:10] <TimZaman> Darkside: what will you do differently next time?
[11:11] <Darkside> not let it float?
[11:11] <TimZaman> how
[11:11] <Darkside> uhh, fill it properly
[11:11] <TimZaman> so, more?
[11:11] <Darkside> yup
[11:11] <TimZaman> 2000g again?
[11:11] <Darkside> maybe
[11:11] <Darkside> we'd need to fly a cutdown i think
[11:12] <Darkside> its way too risky to fly it without one
[11:12] <TimZaman> yup. my method worked pretty well. got some stuff on that here http://www.timzaman.nl/?p=1878
[11:14] <Darkside> cool
[11:14] <Darkside> we don't want to automate ours though
[11:14] <Darkside> we want to trigger it from the ground
[11:14] <TimZaman> Hahah, someone got to my site via google, googling on "apt-get beagle board"
[11:14] <TimZaman> if only shopping was that easy.
[11:14] <TimZaman> Darkside: that'd be way better. because you'd really have to set up like 20 rules to get it right
[11:15] <Darkside> mmm
[11:15] <Darkside> we're thinking using a radiometrix transceiver module, and a DTMF decoder
[11:15] <Darkside> and just blast up FM to it
[11:15] <TimZaman> for instance, i had forgotten the posibility that it would rise VERY slowly, which could lead to it being cutdown at like 2km if it reached the latlon limits
[11:15] <TimZaman> Darkside: that has been used in england. i believe they have a graph somewhere on ukhas..
[11:15] <Darkside> hmm ok
[11:15] <TimZaman> it worked pretty well with a yagi and some power
[11:16] <Darkside> yeah, we'd use a yagi and 50W
[11:17] <fsphil> last person who did that went full power straight away
[11:17] <Darkside> eh?
[11:17] <Darkside> oh, we should try using lower power you mean
[11:17] <fsphil> I'd be interested in seeing if it would work at lower power
[11:17] <Darkside> was planning on having a 'ping' function
[11:17] <Darkside> where it has a transceiver which sends back a ping
[11:17] <fsphil> yea, just out of curiosity
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[11:18] <Darkside> but yeah, we want a ping function
[11:18] <Laurenceb> hi
[11:18] <Darkside> i was thinking of making it able to report battery voltages and such
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[11:18] <Darkside> so every few minutes it'd report back on its status
[11:18] <Darkside> local temperature, so on
[11:19] <Darkside> it'd be interesting to see how cold it gets, as it won't be dissipating much power
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[11:25] <costyn_> is there an up to date list/chart on which GPSes work above 60k ft? I found this http://showcase.netins.net/web/wallio/GPSrcvrsvs60kft.htm but it's not been updated in a while
[11:25] <TimZaman> just get an ublox =)
[11:26] <fsphil> yea, anything with a ublox. it's the only way to be sure :)
[11:26] <costyn_> ok :)
[11:27] <Darkside> oh yeah, i got my breakout boards made
[11:27] <Darkside> and i now have a small pile of ublox modules
[11:27] <costyn_> thx
[11:27] <Darkside> so i could probably ship people some ublox 6 breakouts if they want them
[11:27] <costyn_> Darkside: i'm interested :) dunno what shipping will be from AU to NL though :)
[11:28] <Darkside> haha
[11:28] <Darkside> i'd need to make them first
[11:28] <TimZaman> you can send pcbs by mail easily
[11:28] <fsphil> I'd be interested in a couple too
[11:28] <TimZaman> a couple!
[11:28] <Darkside> yeah i need to package it carefully
[11:28] <Darkside> as the antenna is incredibly fragile
[11:28] <Darkside> well, without copious amounts of glue
[11:28] <fsphil> no point only sending one all that way :)
[11:28] <Darkside> lol
[11:28] <Darkside> i need to get more antennas first..
[11:28] <Darkside> i'm almost out
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[11:29] <Darkside> but yeah, i'd consider selling a few
[11:29] <fsphil> it seems impossible to get the fsa03-lp's with the ublox6 chips
[11:31] <fsphil> "Attention - This product is no longer available!" -- from the falcom website
[11:31] <fsphil> nuts
[11:31] <fsphil> that's both versions of the fsa03
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[11:38] <Darkside> hah
[11:38] <Darkside> well there goes that source
[11:38] <Darkside> i have a market!
[11:38] <fsphil> lol
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[12:42] <NigeyS> hmmmmm
[12:53] <NigeyS> !stat
[12:53] <HAMBotty> NigeyS: 24385 words, 126857 letters, 129 smilies, time wasted: 5 weeks 4 days 12 hours 5 minutes .
[12:53] <NigeyS> !top10
[12:53] <HAMBotty> Top10(words): 1. fsphil(72144) 2. Darkside(68515) 3. Randomskk(61630) 4. eroomde(43545) 5. SpeedEvil(40901) 6. Lunar_Lander(36478) 7. Upu(35466) 8. Dan-K2VOL(29872) 9. cuddykid(27647) 10. daveake(25011)
[12:53] <NigeyS> i dont even make the top 10 ffs :(
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[12:54] <TimZaman> good news. got the canon 350d working with gphoto2
[12:54] <TimZaman> nice old "--capture-and-download" command
[12:55] <NigeyS> schweet stuff Tim
[12:55] <TimZaman> Schweet it is
[12:59] Action: SpeedEvil hits NigeyS with a duck.
[12:59] <SpeedEvil> I thought someone was talking to me.
[12:59] <SpeedEvil> TimZaman: neat!
[12:59] <NigeyS> lol sorry, i keep forgetting it highlights
[12:59] <SpeedEvil> TimZaman: It's damn annoying why that doesn't work on so many cameras - though I usnderstand the technical reason.
[12:59] <SpeedEvil> (and the marketing one)
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[13:02] <fsphil> I could never get gphoto2 working with the 350d
[13:02] <fsphil> though that was a few years ago
[13:02] <TimZaman> i just got it going
[13:02] <TimZaman> and i know why
[13:02] <TimZaman> there is a quasi hidden 'transfer' mode
[13:03] <TimZaman> which says "Printer bla bla"
[13:03] <TimZaman> you just set that to "PC" and youre all set
[13:03] <TimZaman> though it does not seem super reliable
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[13:06] <TimZaman> happy me
[13:06] <TimZaman> Now. Who's got an idea for a good DC adapter for the Canny
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[13:09] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[13:10] <TimZaman> wow gphoto2 is awesome
[13:11] <Lunar_Lander> I think we got a problem
[13:11] <Lunar_Lander> I just sat together with my professor and the ph.d. students
[13:11] <Lunar_Lander> and we discussed the insurance question
[13:11] juxta (~juxta@ppp203-122-193-94.static.internode.on.net) joined #highaltitude.
[13:12] <TimZaman> congrats juxta
[13:12] <TimZaman> #1 float duration with latex :)
[13:12] <juxta> hi TimZaman, thanks
[13:12] <juxta> not exactly what we were hoping for, but never mind :)
[13:13] <TimZaman> =) well we've learned a lot
[13:13] <TimZaman> we already knew this from rharissons flight with a 3kg balloon, but that wasnt a hwoyee.
[13:14] <TimZaman> And, that didnt float.
[13:14] <juxta> this isnt the first time we've had float
[13:14] <juxta> we had it on Horus 8 too
[13:14] <TimZaman> =)
[13:14] <juxta> not for so long though of course
[13:14] <TimZaman> this was absurd.
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[13:15] <TimZaman> few minutes shorter and it'd have landed on land
[13:15] <TimZaman> it probably washed ashore already
[13:15] <juxta> yeah
[13:15] <Zuph> Morning #highaltitude, and congrats to the Aussies.
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[13:22] <Zuph> <-- Conversation Killer :(
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[13:28] <NigeyS> lol morning Zuph
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[13:32] <LunarLander> back
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[13:58] <griffonbot> Received email: WillD "[UKHAS] Weekend Launch (24th/25th Sept) - WDHAB"
[14:09] <danielsaul> How do we get a payload to show up on spacenear.us?
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[14:14] <danielsaul> jonsowman: Do you not have access to the spacenearus admin bit? :P
[14:14] <danielsaul> Ooops
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[14:40] <Dutch-Mill> GoodAftrN
[14:40] <UpuMobile> afternoon Mr Mill
[14:41] <danielsaul> How do we get a payload onto spacenear.us?
[14:42] <UpuMobile> hi danielsaul
[14:42] <UpuMobile> fill out the payload document webpage
[14:42] <UpuMobile> link coming..
[14:42] <Dutch-Mill> Hi Upu any news on HOWEST ?
[14:43] <UpuMobile> http://habhub.org/genpayload/
[14:43] <UpuMobile> I'm out of the loop atm I'm in the Lake District drinking a pint of beer :)
[14:44] <Dutch-Mill> Well Cheers...
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[14:52] <danielsaul> UpuMobile: Sorry, back - That's already been done and put on the server and we are showing in dl-fldigi
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[15:06] <griffonbot> Received email: Peter "[UKHAS] Re: HOWEST Launch tomorrow"
[15:12] <UpuMobile> danielsaul well once done you just need to open a dl-fldigi attached to a radio, set it online and start recieving packets
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[15:13] Nick change: daveake_ -> daveake
[15:13] <danielsaul> UpuMobile: Nothing
[15:17] <UpuMobile> ok so dl-fldigi is going green at the top when it recieves a packet ?
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[15:18] Action: TimZaman just bought a Kenwood THF-7E
[15:18] <TimZaman> 200E.. good price?
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[15:21] Action: Lunar_Lander steps through the door curtain
[15:21] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[15:21] Action: Lunar_Lander drops into one of the chairs
[15:21] <Lunar_Lander> we got a problem
[15:21] <fsphil> there are chairs? crap -- I've been standing for a year!
[15:21] <SpeedEvil> Is it about a pesky wabbitt?
[15:21] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[15:21] <Lunar_Lander> I think you call it the I-Word?
[15:22] <Darkside> insurance?
[15:22] <Darkside> :P
[15:22] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[15:22] <Lunar_Lander> my professor said that he thought about that yesterday
[15:22] <Lunar_Lander> and thus he wanted to make ma aware of it
[15:22] <Lunar_Lander> *me
[15:23] <Darkside> we just fly under our radio clubs insurance
[15:23] <fsphil> you're not the only one to encounter the I word today
[15:23] <Darkside> its some ridiculous amount
[15:23] <Darkside> 1.5 million or something
[15:23] <Lunar_Lander> the german aero-club insures activities in the air, but they only have that for controlled flighr
[15:23] <Lunar_Lander> flight
[15:23] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[15:23] <Lunar_Lander> drones and balloons are not covered by them
[15:23] <fsphil> hab is controlled
[15:23] <fsphil> ish
[15:23] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[15:23] <Lunar_Lander> they said I should call back next monday
[15:24] <Lunar_Lander> when the CEO is back
[15:24] <SpeedEvil> Lunar_Lander: on whatdotheyknow.co.uk - the UK FOIA site - tehre is a quetion about met-office balloon rates
[15:24] <SpeedEvil> maybe useful as argument
[15:24] <Lunar_Lander> otherwise there is one british company who could do it I think
[15:24] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[15:25] <Darkside> you should ask eroomde, Randomskk or jonsowman what they did
[15:25] <SpeedEvil> http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/search/balloon
[15:25] <Darkside> as they launched within a uni
[15:25] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[15:25] <Lunar_Lander> thx SpeedEvil
[15:26] <Lunar_Lander> WTF? "preparation for the Zombie apocalypse"
[15:26] <Lunar_Lander> people give that in as FOIA?
[15:27] <fsphil> you should always be prepared :)
[15:27] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[15:28] <Lunar_Lander> so I then called Lloyd's and they asked me to send me a project outline by email
[15:28] <SpeedEvil> http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/costs_to_central_and_local_gover_2#incoming-55790
[15:28] <SpeedEvil> My query about the MET office
[15:29] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[15:29] <SpeedEvil> hmm - I can't seem to find the balloon related one
[15:29] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[15:29] <SpeedEvil> (that's not helpful for you)
[15:29] <SpeedEvil> (probably)
[15:29] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[15:29] <jonsowman> hi all
[15:29] <Lunar_Lander> I think Lloyd's could do that but they probably ask for big money
[15:29] <Lunar_Lander> hi jonquark
[15:29] <Lunar_Lander> jonsowman
[15:29] <jonsowman> hi Lunar_Lander
[15:29] <SpeedEvil> Aha!
[15:29] <SpeedEvil> http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/request_for_information_on_compe_34#incoming-87632
[15:30] <jonquark> Hi Lunar_Lander
[15:30] <Lunar_Lander> who else had the i-word today fsphil
[15:30] <Lunar_Lander> thanks SpeedEvil
[15:30] <SpeedEvil> So - a grand outlay over 3 years for all the balloons.
[15:30] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[15:31] <SpeedEvil> It might be worth googling how many balloons there are.
[15:31] <fsphil> Lunar_Lander, howest -- the launch that was suppose to be today
[15:31] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[15:31] <Lunar_Lander> they delayed insurance question to day zero?
[15:31] <Lunar_Lander> *questions
[15:32] <fsphil> seems like
[15:32] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[15:32] <Lunar_Lander> we really do need that
[15:33] <SpeedEvil> Meh.
[15:33] <Lunar_Lander> I think I can put all that equipment away until we made that HAB world club
[15:33] <SpeedEvil> I need to send of some more FOIA and DPA requests. :/
[15:34] <Lunar_Lander> jonsowman : yes, we ran into the i-word today at the laboratories
[15:34] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Randall "Re: [UKHAS] Re: HOWEST Launch tomorrow"
[15:36] <jonsowman> Lunar_Lander: ah I see
[15:36] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[15:36] <jonsowman> you're not the first and you certainly won't be the last
[15:36] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[15:36] <Lunar_Lander> I phones Lloyd's Germany
[15:36] <Lunar_Lander> *phoned
[15:36] <Lunar_Lander> the man on the phone asked me to write a short e-mail which I just did
[15:37] <jonsowman> right
[15:37] <SpeedEvil> The fundamental problem with lloyeds et al, is that they will decide the risk is worth 20 quid.
[15:37] <SpeedEvil> And then they'll add their standard x000 quid on top of it for tiny policies.
[15:37] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[15:37] <Lunar_Lander> 20 quid means twentythousand?
[15:38] <SpeedEvil> If you have to get someone important and unusual to deal with your insurance, it's almost always going to be nasty
[15:38] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[15:38] <Lunar_Lander> or is 20 quid = 20 GBP?
[15:38] <SpeedEvil> that
[15:38] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[15:38] <Lunar_Lander> and to top it off
[15:39] <Lunar_Lander> I then waited at the train station when the warning came that a locomotive would pass
[15:39] <SpeedEvil> I'd be looking for stats on how many balloons the met office launched, over 3 years, and then supply that figure divided by 1000.
[15:39] <Lunar_Lander> and it passed, and a pidgeon launched from the station
[15:39] <SpeedEvil> err - 1000 divided by that figure
[15:39] <Lunar_Lander> and the pidgeon crashed into the locomotive and was thrown 5 m
[15:39] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[15:41] <jonsowman> the UK met office launch at least 2 a day from at least 3 sites
[15:41] <jonsowman> so minimum 6 per 24 hours but I think it may be 8
[15:41] <Lunar_Lander> that pidgeon train crash showed me that the world is dangeorus
[15:42] <SpeedEvil> Lunar_Lander: Especially if you're a pigeon.
[15:42] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[15:43] <Lunar_Lander> so
[15:43] <Lunar_Lander> what can I do with my system on the ground?
[15:43] <Lunar_Lander> have it as an environmental datalogger?
[15:44] <SpeedEvil> http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/media/pdf/e/r/FRTR543.pdf
[15:44] <jonsowman> UK launch sites for Met Office sondes are Lerwick, Camborne, and Larkhill
[15:44] <jonsowman> if that's any use
[15:44] <jonsowman> they used to launch from Herstmonceux but that is no longer in use aiui
[15:44] <Lunar_Lander> 380 quid for a windscreen landing?
[15:45] <Lunar_Lander> what is a conservatory window?
[15:45] <jonsowman> big piece of glass...
[15:45] <SpeedEvil> http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/reports/wxfacts/Radiosonde.htm
[15:45] <SpeedEvil> thanks ed
[15:45] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[15:45] <Lunar_Lander> 92 quid for that
[15:45] <SpeedEvil> six stations, four per day
[15:46] <Lunar_Lander> and 433 quid for a sonde in the power lines
[15:46] <SpeedEvil> and others as needed
[15:46] <SpeedEvil> (that may be ourdated of coursE)
[15:46] <jonsowman> SpeedEvil: i wonder when that's from
[15:47] <jonsowman> my information was from a guy called Kevin Linklater at the met office in early 2009
[15:47] <jonsowman> he's in (I quote) "Upper Air Team Observations Supply"
[15:48] <jonsowman> or at least, he was, I've not heard from him since the first Apex launch in 2009
[15:49] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[15:53] <Lunar_Lander> what about asking DWD?
[15:53] <Lunar_Lander> germany's met office
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[15:56] <SpeedEvil> Bingo.
[15:56] <SpeedEvil> https://tenders.metoffice.gov.uk/procontract/metoffice/supplier.nsf/frm_opportunity?openForm&contract_id=CONTRACT-DNWD-7U9HKL&search_id=&org_id=ORG-DNWD-7D6JUE&from=supplier_home
[15:57] <SpeedEvil> volumes to be supplied in Year1 will be considered to be in the region of 6500 units, of which Autosonde deployments are in the range of 2000 to 2800 per annum.
[15:57] <SpeedEvil> Which works out for 2 a day for four sites
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[15:58] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[15:58] <SpeedEvil> So - one in five thousand (ish) flights hits something, with an average payout of 300 quid or so.
[15:59] <Lunar_Lander> I think I write a message to the DWD
[15:59] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[15:59] <SpeedEvil> Or six pence or so.
[15:59] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[16:00] <SpeedEvil> That does seem rather high, and I do wonder if any claims are of the 'this radiosonde landed in the field next to my broken window' variety.
[16:00] <SpeedEvil> (1 in a thousand)
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[16:00] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[16:02] <Lunar_Lander> german military comes to my mind also
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[16:07] <Wil5on> there was a story in australia a while ago of a sonar buoy accidentally being dropped into someones house
[16:07] <Wil5on> fell through their roof
[16:09] <fsphil> how thin was the roof?
[16:09] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[16:10] <SpeedEvil> Sonar bouys are rather heavier though
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[16:10] <fsphil> ahh
[16:11] <Lunar_Lander> what do you think about the DWD/Army idea?
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[16:14] <Lunar_Lander> there has been a train crash at an AHB in germany
[16:15] <Lunar_Lander> a car stood at the crossing and the driver got out to watch the train
[16:15] <Lunar_Lander> then a transporter car rammed the car and pushed it on the crossing
[16:15] <Lunar_Lander> train derailed
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[18:42] <Dutch-Mill> .
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[20:13] <SpeedEvil> http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/kkn5v/ask_tesla_spacex_and_paypal_cofounder_elon_musk/
[20:13] <SpeedEvil> In case anyone diddn't see it last time I linked.
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[20:16] <Dan-K2VOL> awesome
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[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> back from dinner and all that stuff
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> there is a club in germany that works with schools to propagate the wonders of ham radio
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> and they have a balloon insurance
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> they want however that the balloon uses amateur radio
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> and by that they mean real amateur radio
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[20:33] <fsphil> not a bad thing
[20:33] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:34] <SpeedEvil> Is amateur radio legal in .de?
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> I actually know someone with a license
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[20:34] <SpeedEvil> Neat.
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> and that person was actually quite interested when I showed him the "Tracking Guide" on the UKHAS wiki
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[20:34] <SpeedEvil> neat
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:34] <fsphil> you could do sstv on 2m
[20:35] <SpeedEvil> I suppose you're unlikely to be in range of any of the UK receivers.
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> the AATIS (name of the club) charges 100 euro
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil : yeah I thought of SSTV also
[20:35] <SpeedEvil> Or the AU ones. :)
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> that would be neat :)
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> we should definately have listeners on the U.S. East Coast
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:36] <fsphil> where is this launching again? :)
[20:36] <Lunar_Lander> in Osnabrueck :)
[20:36] <fsphil> unlikely anyone in the US will hear that, unless you're thinking of doing HF?
[20:37] <Lunar_Lander> yeah that was just satire
[20:37] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[20:37] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[20:37] <Lunar_Lander> is W0OTM at the keyboard?
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[20:38] <Lunar_Lander> or can somebody else maybe answer this question
[20:38] <Lunar_Lander> in the iHAB-2 payload tour, there were some circuit boards that looked like they were of copper and he said that this would be the "manhattan construction style" or so
[20:41] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.ihabproject.com/iHAB-2/Payload_6.jpg
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[20:42] <Dan-K2VOL> that would be point-to-point wiring, inadvisable, there are many better ways
[20:43] <SpeedEvil> http://www.geofex.com/Article_Folders/deadbug/deadbug.htm
[20:43] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:43] <SpeedEvil> that
[20:43] <SpeedEvil> Lunar_Lander:
[20:43] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
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[21:22] <Laurenceb> god stm32 i2c is a pita
[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> why?
[21:24] <Laurenceb> been working on this for ages
[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[21:24] <Laurenceb> its just really complex
[21:24] <Laurenceb> especially if you want to do hardware buffered interrupt driven code
[21:25] <Laurenceb> with a low priority
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:30] <Laurenceb> im adding hardware error detection now, pretty much doubled the complexity
[21:30] <Laurenceb> has to shut things down correctly and recover, logging the error
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[21:45] <Laurenceb> im also tying it in to the multitasking
[21:45] <Laurenceb> so on reading a certain 'job' it can callback a task
[21:46] <Laurenceb> you can really get the latency down like that - e.g. gyro read -> kalman set running
[21:47] <Laurenceb> then magno read -> correct kalman, which runs in the kalman task later anyway
[21:47] <Laurenceb> so if you line the timing up you can run the kalman as the data comes in
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> yes
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[22:00] <TimZaman> whats all that nonsense about insurance?
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> well my professor and one of the ph.d. people said that we should be safe for if the payload lands on the highway
[22:02] <TimZaman> Oh
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> or if "it lands on a field, shocks a cow and the cow then jumps the fence onto the road and then there is a car crash"
[22:02] <TimZaman> Small chance.
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> that is what the guy said
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> yeah the chance is really slim
[22:03] <TimZaman> ever seen the size of highways in relation to the land
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> yeah they are tiny
[22:04] <TimZaman> i consider myself fairly bankable. you have to take the risk i guess.
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:04] <TimZaman> if people ask me "What If?" i respond with "Id have to pay for it"
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> SpeedEvil showed me something interesting
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> that the met office only had three crashes in three years
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> with 6 balloons per day
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> um yea
[22:04] <TimZaman> same applies when you go out and play soccer, and shoot the football into some pedestrians face or carwindshield
[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> but I don't have that much money
[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:05] <TimZaman> But still, if you want something 'insured' you'd *allways* have to pay for the insurance ofcourse
[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> true
[22:06] <TimZaman> the chance that i kill someone on my bicycle is a lot bigger than when using HAB's. also, three crashes in 3 years? thats a lot.
[22:06] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:07] <Lunar_Lander> a windshield, a window and a power line
[22:07] <Lunar_Lander> but as I said
[22:07] <TimZaman> a 1kg 50x50cm styrofoam box is unlikely to cause a massive pileup of cars
[22:07] <Lunar_Lander> there were 6 launches a day
[22:07] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:07] <TimZaman> oooh are those crashes!!!!!!!! hahaha
[22:07] <TimZaman> but seriously
[22:07] <TimZaman> in holland there was a bomb theat
[22:07] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:07] <TimZaman> the thing landed on the site of a 'skyscraper' 20 story thingy
[22:08] <TimZaman> and people thought it was a bomb
[22:08] <Lunar_Lander> and it was a weather sonde?
[22:08] <TimZaman> partly due to the dumbass crappy red parachute on it
[22:08] <TimZaman> yep
[22:08] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[22:08] <TimZaman> i can pay for a windshield and window
[22:09] <TimZaman> power line.. well, that'd be very crappy and i'd have to postpone some new equipment and maybe sell some. but ill take the risk
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[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> TimZaman : do you think there should be a association for ARHAB?
[22:27] <TimZaman> why
[22:27] <TimZaman> we have the UKHAS right
[22:28] <TimZaman> i can tell you, the ARHAB is not going to be free
[22:29] <TimZaman> in other words: ARHAB can only give a valuable service if you pay for it.
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[22:29] <TimZaman> otherwise i wont see what the added value is. If its because of the community, i'm fine with UKHAS. By the way, i wont mind at all chipping in.
[22:29] <TimZaman> i would never have launched if it wasnt for this chatbox
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> I mean that an association has been discussed to get a group of people to argue for the insurers
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:30] <TimZaman> well, yeah, but good luck for them getting coverage in all 195 countries of the world
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[22:31] <TimZaman> but as i said before, insurance inschmurance. just make sure you are at least somewhat bankable.
[22:31] <TimZaman> at my first flight, i have (really) actually put aside E2000 just in case
[22:31] <TimZaman> well okay mostly since my sister is a lawyer and she was sceptical
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> a friend of mine studies law
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> she said that balloons are no UAVs
[22:34] <Lunar_Lander> and thus the exclusion of balloons in UAV insurances is not applicable
[22:34] <TimZaman> i could have told you that
[22:34] <Lunar_Lander> or somehting like that
[22:34] <Lunar_Lander> yeah I know that also
[22:34] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[22:35] <TimZaman> Still, insurance inschmurance. But yeah, with large calamities, i think those are possible 1:100.000 or something, those can theoretically happen
[22:36] <TimZaman> and an insurance could be nice. But yeah, if you never take a chance it wont get you anywhere.
[22:36] <Lunar_Lander> true
[22:36] <Lunar_Lander> I contacted Lloyd's
[22:36] <Lunar_Lander> wonder what they'll say
[22:37] <SpeedEvil> Interesting to know
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:38] <TimZaman> has anyone ever flown with a proper insurance?
[22:38] <TimZaman> for sure it will never be cheap
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> only the people in southern germany afaik
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> there is a club here, the AATiS, which propagates ham radio use in schools
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> they have a insurance that can be used if a balloon uses ham radio
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> they take a fee of 100 euro
[22:39] <TimZaman> sounds cheap
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> but as I said, no NTX2
[22:40] <Lunar_Lander> it must use ham radio
[22:40] <Lunar_Lander> but that should be no problem
[22:40] <TimZaman> why isnt an ntx2 ham radio
[22:40] <Lunar_Lander> well the guy told me that I need a licensed ham on the team
[22:42] <TimZaman> then get your licence
[22:43] <TimZaman> every country has got novice courses, just get that, shouldnt be expensive, and youll learn a lot
[22:43] <TimZaman> although probably you know 90% already]
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[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> TimZaman : that is true, the tech part is mostly what I learned in experimental physics 2
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> and the second part about using radio is not that hard either
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> Q-Codes and stuff
[22:45] <TimZaman> problem solves then
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> only the law part is a bit tricky but I should get that
[22:45] <TimZaman> law part?
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:46] <Lunar_Lander> there is a part with questions about ham radio laws
[22:46] <Lunar_Lander> about maximum radiated power and stuff
[22:46] <TimZaman> oh well. just read it a couple of times, it'll stick.
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[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:47] <BrainDamage> do they still make morse code tests?
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> no
[22:47] <BrainDamage> good :p
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[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> m1x10 said that in greece the people with an SV callsign have made a morse test
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> SW people did not
[22:49] <TimZaman> in holland morse code is off the charts
[22:49] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:49] <TimZaman> too bad though
[22:49] <TimZaman> i believe they still teach it in 'military school'
[22:49] <Lunar_Lander> btw I rofled when I read your text on the test, when you described the people talking nonsense afterwards
[22:50] <TimZaman> what, me?
[22:50] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:50] <TimZaman> where what how heh?
[22:51] <Lunar_Lander> you said, that after the test someone said that he had forgotten how capacitances behave in series
[22:51] <Lunar_Lander> that was on your blog back then IIRC
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[22:53] <TimZaman> oh yeah. just read it again
[22:53] <TimZaman> The funny thing, is that when i applied one month in advance - they told me i would not have enough time
[22:55] <TimZaman> Even when i told them i was studying to become a mechanical engineer. I insisted and got it fairly easily.
[22:55] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:55] <Lunar_Lander> did you also have the question catalogue=
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[22:55] <Lunar_Lander> here in germany you can have all the questions in a catalogue
[22:55] <Lunar_Lander> like in the driving test
[22:55] <TimZaman> no, but they're fairly consistent.
[22:56] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[23:22] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[23:25] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil: ?
[23:25] <Lunar_Lander> are you here
[23:27] Nick change: SpeedEvil1 -> SpeedEvil
[23:45] Laurenceb (~Laurence@host86-179-81-110.range86-179.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[00:00] --- Wed Sep 21 2011